Definition Creep is a painful thing happening across Science. We should be creating new words to describe the distinctive properties of this very dynamic planet, full stop.
I agree, just as the NOAA will hardly ever say that an EF5 tornado happened after observing the damage. Partly because of new building codes, possibly.
Super storm, super cell, flood,drought, winds,heatdome super vocano,solar stor., or super freeze Those terms sell better than mini skirted bimbos with 38 inchers breathless breaking news announcements
Thank you for the context, updated info on Campi, and the fact you called yourself out on previous usage of the term Super Volcano. Always look forward to your uploads, which I find concise, honest and exceptionally informative!
@@John-ir2zf True, which is why there are so many new weather terms. Fear sells and people need to stop buying into the fear they are trying to provide
If you speak with any geologist, they will tell you that the word "SuperVolcano" is not in use in the geologists' community, and is a word used only by journalists.
You always manage to pack more concentrated information into 5 minutes than most channels do in half an hour, and it's always interesting and engaging. Bravo GeologyHub 👏😃
I follow USGS for their monthly Yellowstone updates. The YVO scientist in charge Mike Poland agrees that the term “super volcano” is outdated and incredibly inaccurate. He even made a suggestion of his own a while ago that’s very similar to yours: Caldera Systems. So I think there’s a lot of agreement in the volcanology world about “super volcano” being a bad term, and it’s just the media that’s perpetuating the hysteria. Glad to see you taking accountability and agreeing to make the changes necessary to avoid further panic ❤
Is it less precise than "planetary killer". There's no real panic so I don't see any problem, and people need such unscientific terms to understand the gravity.
To change your mind because of listening to others, is to grow in your knowledge and wisdom. I don't know enough to follow all the arguments in this case. But I do know enough about Life and existing in a group of professionals you , that changing your mind publicly can be extremely difficult for most people . Yet you have done this professionally accepting your own faults at the same time. And teaching the uneducated, I myself included in this group ( I left education aged 16 a long time ago) I will have to watch and listen to this video again in slow motion to try and understand the technical information and I shall I shall endeavour to only describe volcanoes the way you describe them. Thank you for all your hard work and professionalism in producing these videos.
I appreciate the professor's honesty and humility. He ROCKS! And like you I don't 'get' all the words, but do enjoying learning and stretching my brain.
I'm fine with the old "VEI-8 only" definition for "supervolcano". Which as a reminder, humans as we know them have never experienced a VEI-8 eruption, and we probably shouldn't want to.
You mean civilization as we know it. Humans as we know them have been around for 200 000 years and have thus experienced multiple supereruptions, including the Taupo eruption just 25000 years ago. (although that one happened in an area that had no humans, but then again, Toba was also just ~75000 years ago, and that area _was_ inhabited)
@@LeyrannToba killed that amount of humans that there were only about 10-20 thousand left after that. And Toba is not biggest supervulcano, there are much bigger ones. Also people have no idea how many vulcanoes and supervulcanoes are left unexplored by humans and can also blow up at any moment - for example in antarctica, if supervulcano blew up in antarctica then it would cause tsunamis that would flatten entire cities and nations. And no vulcano is "extinct" - that is just human concept and it is not real. The definition for "extinct vulcano" is just stupid. Btw there were many cases when "extinct" vulcano blew up.
@@Leyrann Yes, Homo sapiens has been around for 200K-300K years and certainly saw VEI-7 and VEI-8 eruptions in the past, but writing and science didn't come until much later, so there are few records of what they witnessed, and those only within the last few thousand years. The largest eruption humans have witnessed that we have real records of was Tambora's VEI-7 in 1815.
Thank you so much for being on top of this. I really hope your term of LCC will be used in scientific literature when referring to such volcanoes like Kikai and Campi Flegrei
For human understanding Campli Flegrei was a SUPERVOLCANO 39,000 years ago. If it causes massive extinctions and throws rocks all the way to Ukraine, it has no other name. Maybe vulcanologists should change their term to MEGAVOLCANO?
I really appreciate your clarification especially sharing the 0-9 VEI chart with examples. Getting info from scientists vs media is so much easier to follow. Thank you for educating us.
Thank you for the clarification, and showing wisdom in rethinking past opinions. You have shown a good example which more of us should follow. I will, for one.
@@SlevinCCX lol...definitions literally ARE the meaning of words. Yes, they can change, andd always have, as living languages evolve and adapt...not always to the liking of some individuals.
I think this is a good argument. As a relative late-comer to geology, I was always under the impression that "super volcanoes" were like bombs waiting to go off at any minute. I don't think the label adds much except confusion for those of us without a specialist education on the topic.
Both Hawaii and Iceland are also Supervolcanoes, but mid-ocean-plate Supervolcanoes are very different from the more dangerous mid-continental-plate Supervocanoes, like Yellowstone, in that the composition of lava is different and the amount of pressure needed to induce an eruption is on vastly different scale.
That comes from textbooks written on a comic book level, a inability to read more than one or two sentences and a reliance on social media. One DOESN'T NEED A SPECIALIST DEGREE , just the ability to fully comprehend information. There is very little today different from my science fair project in 68 on volcanoes or my laughing insanely at a paleontologist about swamp dwelling dinos...i asked him if he ever saw a cow stuck in a mud hole, or how many elephants get trapped yearly in mud......hint..they avoid soft ground
Nah, and good on you for having realized that the term is largely media hype. To the extent that it has *any* basis in scientific classification, it's just a colloquial term for a volcano that has produced at least one VEI-8 eruption at some point in its history (which WOULD be quite destructive were it to happen today, don't get me wrong, but not necessarily some kind of world-ending event either). And as the video correctly points out, the fact that a volcano has at some point produced at least one VEI-8 eruption in NO way means that the next eruption will be that large. The Yellowstone complex, for example, has produced quite a few smaller eruptions in addition to the very large ones it's more known for. Remember: a volcano and a volcanic eruption aren't the same thing!
I appreciate your rethinking of how you will use this term. That shows true professionalism and honesty. However, if one of the 9 do start getting aggressive, you let the term resurface in your warning. I Live in North America and do keep my eye on Yellowstone, just for my personal awareness. I am so glad I found your channel and have learned so much, thank you.
Over a decade ago I watched a great documentary on Santorini’s volcano, and with the way they say the land rose through the sea it had rings or at least one ring. I believe that Santorini is where the Atlantis myth comes from.
Your knowledge of geology, ability to make this scientific information available to a huge audience and your humility are amazing. If and when I have enough money, I WILL become a Patreon member. 👍🏻
This would be a good one to mention that the word "supervolcano" was made up by the BBC, when they did a special about Yellowstone. The actual geological term for one is a "resurgent dome caldera." Would Campi Flegrei be that type of caldera?
As a geologist, I know that terms need to be defined and then adhered to rigorously. Otherwise confusion reigns. The media will always do what will sell their publication, television show and now internet blogs. They have never been responsible.
Thank you for your precision of thought and expression and efforts to get us all to maintain specificity in technical language. I especially admire your acknowledging your own need to restrict your use of the word.
I had a feeling this video was going to be about nomenclature. I've noticed the term supervolcano has been creeping out of its VEI 8 lane for years now. Thanks for helping to reign it back. 😏
Finally someone who talks about that issue. As working in Volcanology and giving guided tours to the public, I struggle with that from time to time. Normally I do not mention the term Supervolcano if not necessary or brought up by rhe audience. If someone uses it, I generally try to explain it to them, which when done with patience works quite well.
Bravo! You've coined a useful, objective term for the science community and others to use that limits confusion and conflation. I'm definitely using and sharing. Now, we need to get the weather service to fix the terminology for tornadoes. Every time I hear that it's a PDS tornado, "Particularly Dangerous Situation," I think "pretty darn scary." Which is true, but they need something more scientifically objective in my opinion. "LCC," we saw it hear first. 💚✊
Appreciate the awareness in the exaggeration of the term. I often have to reassure if 'supervolcano' is mentioned, especially Yellowstone, given it can be extremely overexaggerated by movies/media. I also appreciate the honesty in past usage of the term and the proposals made for these large eruptions in the future!
I hate "popular science". That's why I follow people like you, raptor chatter and a few others because you don't fall into loosely throwing ideas around as fact, and word mincing. And if you make a mistake, you call it out yourself.
Much, MUCH applause for your title and the content of this video. I'll admit I clicked your video imagining that I was going to need to teach "you" that for us to have a "supervolcano" problem "again" we would need to have had a FIRST problematic supervolcano. But then, your sanity, logic, and even self-correction were complete breath of fresh air... We need much more of your type of intelligent reporting. I give you a standing ovation, sir. :)
Thank you. I agree with your idea to change the name so that people without a science background can better understand geologic forces. On a different note, people may "flock" to dangerous supposed predicaments that are sensational and stimulating to assuage their own problems or to just entertain their curiosity.
Thank you! I am always angry when people use it as a clicbyte becasue it creates even more stress and anxiety in our already stressed and anxious society. This is really wise decision and yes, "large caldera complex" seems to me lika a good replacement for that.
GH, thanks for such a logical and sensible discussion, and I agree totally - if we are going to use the term 'supervolcano' we need a clear definition and we need to stick to it, and given the confusion and misuse that has happened over the last few years it is probably best to abandon it.
@@M167A1Mid to higher end VEI 7’s are one especially if there’s a resurgent dome bulge that has uplift in a big caldera instead of a regrowing cone like Mt Tambora which was a lower end VEI 7 which ripped off the entire cone with it and has partially regrown in a few eruptions since
Large caldera complex is a far more accurate and understandable definition imo. Especially to laymen such as my self. Also far less scary sounding. I grew up in a large caldera complex and it's very much a regional actively volcanic landscape rather than a sitting time bomb that "supervolcano" seems to imply.
Yellowstone doesn't worry me, Italy's current activity I certainly concerning and unless it settles down for a decent length of time and the uplifting stops, I will continue to keep an eye to the East. Considering the professionals who are in charge of monitoring both the volcanos are stating the government must be prepared to act quickly and these are the people who deal with them daily.
I'm a mechanical person,and you behave mechanically and with logic,that's why I block all other volcanologist news,even Nova and National Geographic seems watered-down compared to your fine daily concise presentation, WELL DONE!
Try Shawn Wilsey's channel as he is somewhat mechanical, but very evidence based and thus logical. He also tends to be more inclusive in the narrative in his videos.
Your suggestion and reasoning are sound. While I hope that change happens, I'm not confident. As a fellow scientist, exaggeration not only sells in popular media but in science itself. I read grants regularly where the problem is exaggerated in order to get money for the research of interest.
Thank you for this. While it is unlikely the media will cease using "supervolcano" for Campi Flegrei for the forseeable future, one can hope for a shift in the use of LCC for many others to make that definition mainstream.
Please make a video about the dangerous West Valley Fault/Marikina Valley Fault system that's sitting below manila that endangers millions of people that would be appreciated
Not necessarily. It seems to me that one of the things that GH is saying here is that a potentially very large volcano will not necessarily erupt with a massive super-eruption every time it erupts. Campi Flegrei is a good example: Last time is erupted (in 1538) it created a cinder cone that was named Monte Nuovo. Whilst it did bury an entire village(!), this eruption was nevertheless definitely not what people seem to commonly imagine when they hear the term "supervolcano". If Campi Flegrei's next eruption is on a similar scale to 1538 then it will certainly be hugely disruptive locally and unprecedented in an urban area in modern times but it would mostly 'only' be of concern locally within Italy.
@@someusername1Even a fairly small eruption is going to cause a lot of property destruction and displacement for a lot of people, given how densely populated the area is. Millions of people badly effected is a pretty reasonable estimate.
Very good point you make in this video, but unfortunately the one thing common knowledge and common sense have in common is that they're far less common than one would like to think
Although I'm not highly educated on volcanoes, I do think they all have the potential to destroy life! The awareness you bring to your viewers helps in preparation for such a disaster! Remember, nature is predictably unpredictable!!
When I think of Yellowstone I am more interested in the idea that it is the current location of a hot spot or upwelling mantle than plume. Hawaii and Iceland are similar in that sense although eruptions there are generally contained. So I’m onboard with your suggested terminology change.
Humans manipulate language as needed to promote specific ideas. You are just doing the same thing to promote your channel, if involuntarily. Being aware of a behavior is the first step to modifying it. Kudos for being self aware enough to catch yourself.
This is much an issue with degrading Journalistic integrity, and rush to publish on a 24 hour news cycle as definition creep. No time is taken to check sources, questions both sides, or have basic familiarity with the subject that's being reported on. The people who are actually doing all the above are not even counted as proper journalists.
I still stand by my belief that a “super volcano” *has* to have produced an eruption that ejected >500km3 of tephra to even be considered as a super volcano and ideally it has done that more then once. I say this because VEI7’s that are above the 500 km figure for tephra do tend to happen very differently then the ones on the lower end and have much further reaching effects. However you are 100% correct that the term itself makes no sense at all because it doesn’t even really mean anything and it deceives the public into thinking they are far more dangerous then they actually are, as 90% of a “super volcano’s” eruptions are at least 4 magnitudes lower then a “super eruption”
It would be good to indicate on a globe which are - 1. the extant Super volcanoes 2. Of those, which are the ones that have a probability of a catastrophic eruption within the next 20 years.
LCC is a good term, I like it, I'll use it as I understand the 1000 cubic KM tephra term but somewhat did purposely use the term Super Volcano when discussing Large Caldera Complex complete eruption and collapse. Although I always point out that these, what we're now calling LCCs, and truly Super Volcanoes often erupt with only single vent small eruptions, many times often before a full eruption and caldera collapse occurs.
Good on keeping the terms clear. We should come up with a term for volcanoes like Campi Flegrei then, a human definition, that denotes volcanoes that could easily produce large eruptions and yet are surrounded by human habitation within obviously suicidal distances. Ambivalent volcano? Suicide Volcano? City Killer Volcano?
The problem is that any news story about about volcanos will get many more clicks if the word "supervolcano" is in the headline even if the term has become overused and scientifically vague. Why let science get in the way of a good news story? Worse the long term news coverage of the eruptive histories of the Yellowstone and Campi Flegrei volcanos has conditioned the public to fear an apocalyptic disaster if an eruption of any scale occurs at a volcano with a supereruptive history.
Campi Flegrei may not be a "supervolcano" in the technical sense, but a convincing case can and has been built that a massive ancient eruption of that complex during the Ice Age was the final nail in the collective coffin for the last surviving populations of Neanderthals. Ash from that eruption has been found in thick bands as far east as Bulgaria.
The term is being linked to how much damage would occur, rather than being limited to a numerical value. A new definition is required for these middle rankers, but the media are going to want a pithy term to stick in the headlines.
Cheers for the great content, off to Greece tomorrow with family for a week’s vacation in Rhodes. Booked a boat trip on Weds, to the island of Nisyros, it’ll be my first time hiking around a volcano. Very excited. I’ll remember of course to stay safe, but out of interest, what volcanic rock does it erupt, what does its volcanic rock look like to the eye so I know what I’m looking at and not just starring aimlessly and not knowing what I’m looking at?
Should the amount of possible loss of life due to the number of people living in proximity be included in the definition? I suspect no, but I am curious to hear thoughts on this.
Including the casualties from an eruption would only distort the absolute rating of the rating. The VEI rating is based on the amount of ejecta as one of several criteria.
I don't think so. That type of terminology is more societal than science based. I do think that we do need a societal scale to measure an event's ability to influence humanity. The reason that the media are using the term super volcano is BECAUSE we don't have an agreed upon societal scale. In a not-so-serious description, I would say: ● Firecracker: an eruption that has some pretty lava smattering but does not threaten human life or 😂property. ● Roman Candle: an eruption that has limited impact on property and no threat of deaths of humans. ● Spinwheel: an eruption that endangers property and has the potential to affect a limited number of people ● Roman Candle: an eruption that both endangers property and can affect a city of people Etc. You can see where I'm going. The volcano in Naple would obviously be higher on the scale than Vesuvius because it could kill millions of people where Vesuvius could kill thousands. 😊
I agree. The Eruption of the Campania ignimbrite of the Phlegrean Fields was large, possibly a VEI=7, but certainly not VEI=8. The word SuperVolcano looks important on the pages of newspapers and gets a lot of clicks in the Internet, though. Greetings, Anthony
I've never understood the misconception of volcanoes such as Campi Flegrei. I had this discussion in the past with my family about what truly is a "supervolcano". And I agree with nearly everything in this video, down to a new separate category for such volcanoes. Because while they don't quite make the cut compared to Yellowstone, they're huge enough to be a problem when they do happen. "LCC" is a great way to separate them from the true monsters of our geologic world. I support this going forward.
Have you submitted a paper to the geology groups worldwide to have a re-designation of the volcanic eruption description and naming? Just curious if you have garnered support from your peers.
Thank you, Geo. I'm not sure how many people use legacy media outlets to focus on scientific accuracy. We have to look hard to find integrity which is why we're here on your channel.
There's no such thing as "supervolcanoes", never has been. They're just categorized as calderas with the capability to produce very large caldera eruptions. For the most, they produce Mount Saint Helens size eruptions.
I love how Mt St Helen’s is a unit of measurement of large volcanoes now
But how many football fields does that add up to???
Or olympic swimming pools…
I think it's the easiest modern reference since most of us have seen plenty of footage of the event and its aftermath.
How many African elephants worth of material is that?
The Americans will use anything but the Metric System
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Just kidding, I know Geologyhub also uses Metric values in his videos
Definition Creep is a painful thing happening across Science. We should be creating new words to describe the distinctive properties of this very dynamic planet, full stop.
Our flat one?
Lol...just kidding 😂
I blame the marketing departments.
I agree, just as the NOAA will hardly ever say that an EF5 tornado happened after observing the damage. Partly because of new building codes, possibly.
Super storm, super cell, flood,drought, winds,heatdome super vocano,solar stor., or super freeze Those terms sell better than mini skirted bimbos with 38 inchers breathless breaking news announcements
I blame aliens
Thank you for the context, updated info on Campi, and the fact you called yourself out on previous usage of the term Super Volcano.
Always look forward to your uploads, which I find concise, honest and exceptionally informative!
The term supervolcano sells...the media likes to overhype these events.
Exactly... fear sells !
Thats true. They actually invented the term and thats why its beeing used so inconsequently.
As does GeologyHub.
@@John-ir2zf True, which is why there are so many new weather terms. Fear sells and people need to stop buying into the fear they are trying to provide
They like to over hype any events that don't make sense as well
I certainly hope your updated classification gets agreed on by peers and gets a foothold within the scientific community.
I echo this comment. The general public does not need to panic.
That would be a big sigh of relief.
If you speak with any geologist, they will tell you that the word "SuperVolcano" is not in use in the geologists' community, and is a word used only by journalists.
Yeah. I would definitely like to see that happen. The term ‘supervolcano’ has long been overused.
The scientific community doesn't use the term.
You always manage to pack more concentrated information into 5 minutes than most channels do in half an hour, and it's always interesting and engaging. Bravo GeologyHub 👏😃
I follow USGS for their monthly Yellowstone updates. The YVO scientist in charge Mike Poland agrees that the term “super volcano” is outdated and incredibly inaccurate. He even made a suggestion of his own a while ago that’s very similar to yours: Caldera Systems. So I think there’s a lot of agreement in the volcanology world about “super volcano” being a bad term, and it’s just the media that’s perpetuating the hysteria. Glad to see you taking accountability and agreeing to make the changes necessary to avoid further panic ❤
Good point - refinement of words/ definition, thanks
Is it less precise than "planetary killer". There's no real panic so I don't see any problem, and people need such unscientific terms to understand the gravity.
To change your mind because of listening to others, is to grow in your knowledge and wisdom.
I don't know enough to follow all the arguments in this case.
But I do know enough about Life and existing in a group of professionals you , that changing your mind publicly can be extremely difficult for most people .
Yet you have done this professionally accepting your own faults at the same time.
And teaching the uneducated, I myself included in this group ( I left education aged 16 a long time ago)
I will have to watch and listen to this video again in slow motion to try and understand the technical information and I shall
I shall endeavour to only describe volcanoes the way you describe them.
Thank you for all your hard work and professionalism in producing these videos.
I appreciate the professor's honesty and humility. He ROCKS! And like you I don't 'get' all the words, but do enjoying learning and stretching my brain.
Campi Flegrei isn't a supervolcano, but we'll be super f**ked if that thing went off full balls
the campi flegrei is a supervolcano look it up u will see
Your vulgarity is acceptable in this instance.
@@neomiepaquette8130 It is not. Rewatch the video, or at least, ~ 0:54 and ~ 2:10 . Campi Flegrei does not fit the definition of a supervolcano.
@@neomiepaquette8130 It's not if going by the original definition, that's literally the point of the video
When it erupts, most likely the eruption will be a VEI4 or VEI5. The odds of the event being a VEI 7 is rather small.
I'm fine with the old "VEI-8 only" definition for "supervolcano". Which as a reminder, humans as we know them have never experienced a VEI-8 eruption, and we probably shouldn't want to.
You mean civilization as we know it. Humans as we know them have been around for 200 000 years and have thus experienced multiple supereruptions, including the Taupo eruption just 25000 years ago. (although that one happened in an area that had no humans, but then again, Toba was also just ~75000 years ago, and that area _was_ inhabited)
@@LeyrannToba killed that amount of humans that there were only about 10-20 thousand left after that. And Toba is not biggest supervulcano, there are much bigger ones. Also people have no idea how many vulcanoes and supervulcanoes are left unexplored by humans and can also blow up at any moment - for example in antarctica, if supervulcano blew up in antarctica then it would cause tsunamis that would flatten entire cities and nations. And no vulcano is "extinct" - that is just human concept and it is not real. The definition for "extinct vulcano" is just stupid. Btw there were many cases when "extinct" vulcano blew up.
@@Leyrann Yes, Homo sapiens has been around for 200K-300K years and certainly saw VEI-7 and VEI-8 eruptions in the past, but writing and science didn't come until much later, so there are few records of what they witnessed, and those only within the last few thousand years. The largest eruption humans have witnessed that we have real records of was Tambora's VEI-7 in 1815.
@@Leyrann
Update: 300k years.
@@Samuel42069
This seems to be disputed.
Thank you so much for being on top of this. I really hope your term of LCC will be used in scientific literature when referring to such volcanoes like Kikai and Campi Flegrei
For human understanding Campli Flegrei was a SUPERVOLCANO 39,000 years ago. If it causes massive extinctions and throws rocks all the way to Ukraine, it has no other name. Maybe vulcanologists should change their term to MEGAVOLCANO?
I really appreciate your clarification especially sharing the 0-9 VEI chart with examples. Getting info from scientists vs media is so much easier to follow. Thank you for educating us.
Thank you for the clarification, and showing wisdom in rethinking past opinions. You have shown a good example which more of us should follow. I will, for one.
Definitions matter, and matter greatly.
Language is powerful and used to control, look out for doublespeak.
@@SlevinCCX lol...definitions literally ARE the meaning of words. Yes, they can change, andd always have, as living languages evolve and adapt...not always to the liking of some individuals.
I think this is a good argument. As a relative late-comer to geology, I was always under the impression that "super volcanoes" were like bombs waiting to go off at any minute. I don't think the label adds much except confusion for those of us without a specialist education on the topic.
Both Hawaii and Iceland are also Supervolcanoes, but mid-ocean-plate Supervolcanoes are very different from the more dangerous mid-continental-plate Supervocanoes, like Yellowstone, in that the composition of lava is different and the amount of pressure needed to induce an eruption is on vastly different scale.
That comes from textbooks written on a comic book level, a inability to read more than one or two sentences and a reliance on social media. One DOESN'T NEED A SPECIALIST DEGREE , just the ability to fully comprehend information. There is very little today different from my science fair project in 68 on volcanoes or my laughing insanely at a paleontologist about swamp dwelling dinos...i asked him if he ever saw a cow stuck in a mud hole, or how many elephants get trapped yearly in mud......hint..they avoid soft ground
Nah, and good on you for having realized that the term is largely media hype. To the extent that it has *any* basis in scientific classification, it's just a colloquial term for a volcano that has produced at least one VEI-8 eruption at some point in its history (which WOULD be quite destructive were it to happen today, don't get me wrong, but not necessarily some kind of world-ending event either). And as the video correctly points out, the fact that a volcano has at some point produced at least one VEI-8 eruption in NO way means that the next eruption will be that large. The Yellowstone complex, for example, has produced quite a few smaller eruptions in addition to the very large ones it's more known for. Remember: a volcano and a volcanic eruption aren't the same thing!
I appreciate your rethinking of how you will use this term. That shows true professionalism and honesty. However, if one of the 9 do start getting aggressive, you let the term resurface in your warning. I Live in North America and do keep my eye on Yellowstone, just for my personal awareness.
I am so glad I found your channel and have learned so much, thank you.
Thanks for all the hard work on these videos!
Highly agree too
Over a decade ago I watched a great documentary on Santorini’s volcano, and with the way they say the land rose through the sea it had rings or at least one ring. I believe that Santorini is where the Atlantis myth comes from.
Your knowledge of geology, ability to make this scientific information available to a huge audience and your humility are amazing. If and when I have enough money, I WILL become a Patreon member. 👍🏻
This would be a good one to mention that the word "supervolcano" was made up by the BBC, when they did a special about Yellowstone. The actual geological term for one is a "resurgent dome caldera." Would Campi Flegrei be that type of caldera?
It certainly is. At the moment that dome is rising again.
As a geologist, I know that terms need to be defined and then adhered to rigorously. Otherwise confusion reigns. The media will always do what will sell their publication, television show and now internet blogs. They have never been responsible.
Thank you for your precision of thought and expression and efforts to get us all to maintain specificity in technical language. I especially admire your acknowledging your own need to restrict your use of the word.
A very thoughtful video. Unfortunately, people don't respond to thoughtfulness, they respond to emotion, and media companies know this.
Barney the Dinosaur called it Super Dee Duper Volcano.
I had a feeling this video was going to be about nomenclature. I've noticed the term supervolcano has been creeping out of its VEI 8 lane for years now. Thanks for helping to reign it back. 😏
Finally someone who talks about that issue. As working in Volcanology and giving guided tours to the public, I struggle with that from time to time. Normally I do not mention the term Supervolcano if not necessary or brought up by rhe audience. If someone uses it, I generally try to explain it to them, which when done with patience works quite well.
Thank you, GH.
We appreciate your correction and addressing of your past usage. This is the best way of addressing things. Respect
And THIS is the reason I like this channel: factual, accurate info and not media-hyped exaggerations. THANK YOU!
Bless you for tracking this!
You can add MSNBC, MSN, Google, and dozens of others to the "Called it a Supervolcano" list. Heck you can even add the Discovery channel to that list.
Bravo! You've coined a useful, objective term for the science community and others to use that limits confusion and conflation. I'm definitely using and sharing.
Now, we need to get the weather service to fix the terminology for tornadoes. Every time I hear that it's a PDS tornado, "Particularly Dangerous Situation," I think "pretty darn scary." Which is true, but they need something more scientifically objective in my opinion.
"LCC," we saw it hear first. 💚✊
Thanks for the clarification.
Appreciate the awareness in the exaggeration of the term. I often have to reassure if 'supervolcano' is mentioned, especially Yellowstone, given it can be extremely overexaggerated by movies/media. I also appreciate the honesty in past usage of the term and the proposals made for these large eruptions in the future!
Agreed GH 🤔. Great topic.
I hate "popular science". That's why I follow people like you, raptor chatter and a few others because you don't fall into loosely throwing ideas around as fact, and word mincing. And if you make a mistake, you call it out yourself.
Much, MUCH applause for your title and the content of this video. I'll admit I clicked your video imagining that I was going to need to teach "you" that for us to have a "supervolcano" problem "again" we would need to have had a FIRST problematic supervolcano. But then, your sanity, logic, and even self-correction were complete breath of fresh air... We need much more of your type of intelligent reporting. I give you a standing ovation, sir. :)
Thank you. I agree with your idea to change the name so that people without a science background can better understand geologic forces. On a different note, people may "flock" to dangerous supposed predicaments that are sensational and stimulating to assuage their own problems or to just entertain their curiosity.
I think your proposed definitions are excellent! Hopefully they will be widely adopted!
Thank you! I am always angry when people use it as a clicbyte becasue it creates even more stress and anxiety in our already stressed and anxious society. This is really wise decision and yes, "large caldera complex" seems to me lika a good replacement for that.
GH, thanks for such a logical and sensible discussion, and I agree totally - if we are going to use the term 'supervolcano' we need a clear definition and we need to stick to it, and given the confusion and misuse that has happened over the last few years it is probably best to abandon it.
I'm quietly confident you've called Campi a super volcano.
Watches more of the video....ok fair point
This is correct. But I will no longer call it one from this point forward.
@@GeologyHuboh come on... VEI8 EQUALS SUPER!!!!🎉
So is the caldera Right Smack Dab in the middle of Phoenix, Arizona you call it Camelback mountain...
@@M167A1Mid to higher end VEI 7’s are one especially if there’s a resurgent dome bulge that has uplift in a big caldera instead of a regrowing cone like Mt Tambora which was a lower end VEI 7 which ripped off the entire cone with it and has partially regrown in a few eruptions since
I like this video. Thanks for clarifying the differences.
If any of them erupt to their maximum extent, Super or not, we as a civilisation will be in a spot of bother, to say the least.
Maybe it isn't a supervolcano, but it is Superbad and capable of McLovin'.
Large caldera complex is a far more accurate and understandable definition imo. Especially to laymen such as my self. Also far less scary sounding. I grew up in a large caldera complex and it's very much a regional actively volcanic landscape rather than a sitting time bomb that "supervolcano" seems to imply.
Everyone is looking at Yellowstone with high anxiety SURE its gonna blow and Campi Flegrei suddenly yells "Hold my Negroni!"
Yellowstone is broken..
Yellowstone doesn't worry me, Italy's current activity I certainly concerning and unless it settles down for a decent length of time and the uplifting stops, I will continue to keep an eye to the East. Considering the professionals who are in charge of monitoring both the volcanos are stating the government must be prepared to act quickly and these are the people who deal with them daily.
Not everyone. We visit Yellowstone every couple of years. No anxiety, no fear, just enjoying the beauty
I'm a mechanical person,and you behave mechanically and with logic,that's why I block all other volcanologist news,even Nova and National Geographic seems watered-down compared to your fine daily concise presentation, WELL DONE!
Try Shawn Wilsey's channel as he is somewhat mechanical, but very evidence based and thus logical. He also tends to be more inclusive in the narrative in his videos.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 once you taste turkey it's hard to go back to tripe.
Your suggestion is science based. It's an excellent idea.
Your suggestion and reasoning are sound. While I hope that change happens, I'm not confident. As a fellow scientist, exaggeration not only sells in popular media but in science itself. I read grants regularly where the problem is exaggerated in order to get money for the research of interest.
Thank you appreciate you and I agree
GH: Buzzard Creek the smallest active volcano.
News: Buzzard Creek Ultrahypermegavolcano!
Yikes!
lol--then volcano-nado attacking humans everywhere. (Probably to team up with sharknado)
And the world will end when buzzard creek goes ultra massive automatic and empties its clipazine and blows out lungs across the universe.
-cnn report-
😂😂😂@@tgardenchicken1780
Thank you for this. While it is unlikely the media will cease using "supervolcano" for Campi Flegrei for the forseeable future, one can hope for a shift in the use of LCC for many others to make that definition mainstream.
Super informative 🌋
Please make a video about the dangerous West Valley Fault/Marikina Valley Fault system that's sitting below manila that endangers millions of people that would be appreciated
I appreciate your desire to maintain a certain integrity in scientific communication. Thank you.
Well said.
I agree that super volcano has become greatly overused. Thanks for your attempts to regrade them.
Call it cotton candy if you want. Either way when Campi Flegri does erupt, millions of people are going to have more than a bad day.
Not necessarily. It seems to me that one of the things that GH is saying here is that a potentially very large volcano will not necessarily erupt with a massive super-eruption every time it erupts. Campi Flegrei is a good example: Last time is erupted (in 1538) it created a cinder cone that was named Monte Nuovo. Whilst it did bury an entire village(!), this eruption was nevertheless definitely not what people seem to commonly imagine when they hear the term "supervolcano".
If Campi Flegrei's next eruption is on a similar scale to 1538 then it will certainly be hugely disruptive locally and unprecedented in an urban area in modern times but it would mostly 'only' be of concern locally within Italy.
@@someusername1Even a fairly small eruption is going to cause a lot of property destruction and displacement for a lot of people, given how densely populated the area is. Millions of people badly effected is a pretty reasonable estimate.
Very good point you make in this video, but unfortunately the one thing common knowledge and common sense have in common is that they're far less common than one would like to think
Although I'm not highly educated on volcanoes, I do think they all have the potential to destroy life! The awareness you bring to your viewers helps in preparation for such a disaster!
Remember, nature is predictably unpredictable!!
I love your explanations, and you have the confidence + modesty to admit a mistake. Good information.
When I think of Yellowstone I am more interested in the idea that it is the current location of a hot spot or upwelling mantle than plume. Hawaii and Iceland are similar in that sense although eruptions there are generally contained. So I’m onboard with your suggested terminology change.
I think we should call this kind of volcano something like semi Supervolcano since it only had one large eruption.
Viagra-volcano
I assumed the overuse of the term super-volcano was a media based intentional misuse of the term in order to generate more views.
Yup, anything that would people view their info. Medias are fear monger, so they'll use it.
Humans manipulate language as needed to promote specific ideas. You are just doing the same thing to promote your channel, if involuntarily. Being aware of a behavior is the first step to modifying it. Kudos for being self aware enough to catch yourself.
This is much an issue with degrading Journalistic integrity, and rush to publish on a 24 hour news cycle as definition creep. No time is taken to check sources, questions both sides, or have basic familiarity with the subject that's being reported on. The people who are actually doing all the above are not even counted as proper journalists.
I still stand by my belief that a “super volcano” *has* to have produced an eruption that ejected >500km3 of tephra to even be considered as a super volcano and ideally it has done that more then once. I say this because VEI7’s that are above the 500 km figure for tephra do tend to happen very differently then the ones on the lower end and have much further reaching effects.
However you are 100% correct that the term itself makes no sense at all because it doesn’t even really mean anything and it deceives the public into thinking they are far more dangerous then they actually are, as 90% of a “super volcano’s” eruptions are at least 4 magnitudes lower then a “super eruption”
It would be good to indicate on a globe which are - 1. the extant Super volcanoes 2. Of those, which are the ones that have a probability of a catastrophic eruption within the next 20 years.
It takes a big man to admit He miss used the term "Super" volcano. Thank You. Rock on!!!!!!!
Thank you for this topic
Watch the full video before you call out GH for calling Campi Flegeri a Supervolcano
LCC is a good term, I like it, I'll use it as I understand the 1000 cubic KM tephra term but somewhat did purposely use the term Super Volcano when discussing Large Caldera Complex complete eruption and collapse. Although I always point out that these, what we're now calling LCCs, and truly Super Volcanoes often erupt with only single vent small eruptions, many times often before a full eruption and caldera collapse occurs.
Good on keeping the terms clear. We should come up with a term for volcanoes like Campi Flegrei then, a human definition, that denotes volcanoes that could easily produce large eruptions and yet are surrounded by human habitation within obviously suicidal distances. Ambivalent volcano? Suicide Volcano? City Killer Volcano?
Very useful summary. Thank you. Cleared some confusion i had fir sure.
Great to hear someone wanting to stick to concise application of scientific terminology.
Appropriate clarification.
Very informative content thank you 😊
Nice conclusion! Totally agree! 😎
The problem is that any news story about about volcanos will get many more clicks if the word "supervolcano" is in the headline even if the term has become overused and scientifically vague. Why let science get in the way of a good news story? Worse the long term news coverage of the eruptive histories of the Yellowstone and Campi Flegrei volcanos has conditioned the public to fear an apocalyptic disaster if an eruption of any scale occurs at a volcano with a supereruptive history.
Campi Flegrei may not be a "supervolcano" in the technical sense, but a convincing case can and has been built that a massive ancient eruption of that complex during the Ice Age was the final nail in the collective coffin for the last surviving populations of Neanderthals. Ash from that eruption has been found in thick bands as far east as Bulgaria.
Thank you for covering this. The amount of scientific nonsense in the "news" is out of control.
The term is being linked to how much damage would occur, rather than being limited to a numerical value. A new definition is required for these middle rankers, but the media are going to want a pithy term to stick in the headlines.
Agree.
Cheers for the great content, off to Greece tomorrow with family for a week’s vacation in Rhodes. Booked a boat trip on Weds, to the island of Nisyros, it’ll be my first time hiking around a volcano. Very excited. I’ll remember of course to stay safe, but out of interest, what volcanic rock does it erupt, what does its volcanic rock look like to the eye so I know what I’m looking at and not just starring aimlessly and not knowing what I’m looking at?
Should the amount of possible loss of life due to the number of people living in proximity be included in the definition? I suspect no, but I am curious to hear thoughts on this.
Including the casualties from an eruption would only distort the absolute rating of the rating. The VEI rating is based on the amount of ejecta as one of several criteria.
I don't think so. That type of terminology is more societal than science based. I do think that we do need a societal scale to measure an event's ability to influence humanity. The reason that the media are using the term super volcano is BECAUSE we don't have an agreed upon societal scale.
In a not-so-serious description, I would say:
● Firecracker: an eruption that has some pretty lava smattering but does not threaten human life or 😂property.
● Roman Candle: an eruption that has limited impact on property and no threat of deaths of humans.
● Spinwheel: an eruption that endangers property and has the potential to affect a limited number of people
● Roman Candle: an eruption that both endangers property and can affect a city of people
Etc. You can see where I'm going. The volcano in Naple would obviously be higher on the scale than Vesuvius because it could kill millions of people where Vesuvius could kill thousands. 😊
I only stopped because I couldn't think of any other fireworks names😂
@@MSjackiesaunders creative! 😅
@@MSjackiesaunders I find your statements about needing a societal scale quite compelling.
This is very interesting.
Thank you! This channel is a voice of reason and critical thinking 🌎
Thank you. I needed that.
Thank you for putting some reality into this subject.
I agree. The Eruption of the Campania ignimbrite of the Phlegrean Fields was large, possibly a VEI=7, but certainly not VEI=8.
The word SuperVolcano looks important on the pages of newspapers and gets a lot of clicks in the Internet, though.
Greetings,
Anthony
I've never understood the misconception of volcanoes such as Campi Flegrei. I had this discussion in the past with my family about what truly is a "supervolcano".
And I agree with nearly everything in this video, down to a new separate category for such volcanoes. Because while they don't quite make the cut compared to Yellowstone, they're huge enough to be a problem when they do happen. "LCC" is a great way to separate them from the true monsters of our geologic world. I support this going forward.
Have you submitted a paper to the geology groups worldwide to have a re-designation of the volcanic eruption description and naming? Just curious if you have garnered support from your peers.
Thank you for the info.
Thank you, Geo. I'm not sure how many people use legacy media outlets to focus on scientific accuracy. We have to look hard to find integrity which is why we're here on your channel.
There's no such thing as "supervolcanoes", never has been. They're just categorized as calderas with the capability to produce very large caldera eruptions. For the most, they produce Mount Saint Helens size eruptions.
Great explanation the clarifications of terms is very helpful
It's a 1/3 Supervolcano ❤
That video was super.