I think it’s worth considering that SOME of his known symptoms were caused by his many ridiculous treatments. Now, almost 300 years later, it’s hard to differentiate between his original symptoms, and those caused by his treatments. Making a post facto diagnosis even more difficult.
We have carried out chemical testing on his tissues and he had high levels of arsenic present. It is thought that the arsenic in his system, probably introduced in his make-up, caused enough liver damage that he developed acute porphyria as a result. This leads to a build up of porphyrins in the blood stream at unnatural levels which in turn causes one's nervous system to temporarily go haywire.
@@hoathanatos6179 Lots of people back then used the same kind of make-up, but there wasn't a staggering number of cases such as the king's, which makes me think there must have been some other way he got exposed to arsenic. Dubious treatments for something are quite plausible, actually.
One thing I noticed: the night after the ball when George went downstairs and was talking to the Dr, and the Dr. told him he was treating Charlotte, and she was pregnant, no one knew that at that point. Not even she did. I think the doctor told him that because he knew George wouldn't want him near his wife, and the surprise of her being pregnant would trigger a panic attack. And that's just what happened. He wanted George to have his episodes.
While I hate what George (and sadly many people with mental illnesses during that time) had to endure, I have to agree: we still to this day don't allow leaders to be mentally ill without questioning their quality of leadership and view it as a weakness. I think George's mother in this show wanted to shield her son from the judgment of other people and tried to help medically behind the scenes, but medicine being what it was back then couldn't help him sufficiently.
There's a book based on the show now and in George's chapters, he describes his state while having the onset of a manic episode and the way you described word salad is spot on with the text. Thank you for all the insight!
As someone with bipolar who read the book and saw the series it really is a good description of bipolar for me. Dissociation can happen as well as "word salad". The racing thoughts in my head are frightening and I am most grateful for a much better treatment nowadays. He must have suffered a lot.
If you look back on his childhood he had a lot of trauma. The trauma entwines with the crown that he basically forced to do. He was abused by his grandfather at such a young age. He also had trauma with all the treatments he went through which most likely the treatments made him worse and his symptoms worse. You can tell how his symptoms were less when he was just being farmer George. So have to tie all of the crown and the trauma together. What I don’t understand is how the doctor went from talking to extreme treatments. Like was the “ talking “ just for him to become the doctor and get control?
The doctor went from 0 to 100 with his power tripping. When he eas initially introduced, he acted like he was different to the other doctors and knew the solution. He cured him for a moment by just using words and was made the king's doctor. Later, the king was starting an episode and the doctor decided to just slap him. It worked but was still a bit shocking. Then later, the doctor changes even more by saying the king needs to only listen to him and also to truly be cured needs to start torture classes. Like, wth?? Doctor was obsessed with gaining authority and subjecting him to torture to boost his own ego and the king's mother just let it happen.
I agree with you. It seems like multiple disorders in one. However, I have to give credit to the show runners who didn't just go for the easy way and shock value and maintained a certain consistency with it. More respect than many other shows with "mental illnesses" in it.
The whole "treatment" was very detailed described in the book. It's just torture like in the series. It's a shame that they didn't know better then, I believe! Watching Corey Mylchreest play King George III was tough because he played so well. The Doctor should have been punished more in my opinion.
What really infuriated me about the doctor that ends up treating George is that he initially claims he’ll treat George by simply “talking to him”, which is how we treat pretty much all mental illnesses now alongside meds if needed…but he ended up torturing George instead. I guess he did start by talking to him to force him out of his episodes but then when George asked to be experimented on he tortured him but it’s still disgusting.
Lord i was really looking forward to someone that is a doctor or phycologist to look into this. I hope you do the next episode too it gives his full perspective of what is happening to him and more insight on the "" treatment"" he received. As well as how he got out in the next episode. Really looking forward to it 😊
I have GAD and when I saw the scenes of how they "treated" him I was offended and incredibly provoked. Because many historians has sugested he might have been Bipolar, and its like Charlotte said. If the king needs to be mad then he shall be mad. Someone with mental health issues needs to let their feelings and thoughts out instead of pushing them away. I believe that not only did he have bipolar, but I'm pretty sure the "treatment" he got caused him to have some PTSD as well, hence the shaking hands. And I believe that before the treatment, he might have had some PTSD aswell that was caused by the people around him telling him how he needed to be and if he wasnt he would be punished for it. And it doesnt help that when he first broke out, people called him mad or insane. That doesnt help at all cuz if people say that, then the person who has it is gonna believe it too and that will create alot of selfdoubt. George NEEDED Charlotte. He needed someone who understood him, someone to support him, and be there for him when he needed it. Someone to just listen to him when he talked and give him love and happyness. Someone to just LOVE him. Because talking and understanding, treating them like a human being and just being there for them is the best treatments of them all. Because not only does it help someone who's troubled, it also helps to prevent a child to end up so troubled as well.
In George's episode with his mother his word salad does make sense. He loves the study of astronomy, and its one of his safe places he retreats to along with farming. In that scene he is spouting off consultations Edit: also with the talk of the moon and sexton and being lost that's to do with navigation of the sea done with a sexton and the night sky following stars
This is why I think one of his conflicting diagnosis were D.I.D. (Dissociative Personally Disorder) And when he start talking about the stars that's or farming he really is just "Farmer George" or completely Dissociated to his one safe haven the stars. Because we see when he comes to im bed he has no memory of these episodes. An the torture only made it worse along with deterioration of the mind
I cant comment on the real King but in this show Im fairly certain he had ptsd in addition to other stuff. His mother talks about them being abused when his father died. The 'treatments' made it worse. I also think the doctor wasnt actually trying to cure him but to condition the king to be obediant to, and reliant on thw doctor so the doctor could gain political power.
I’ve seen the entire series by now and - not a doc, just informed member of the public - my bet would be severe ptsd with dissociation and reliving trauma. The call to Venus sounds to me like a young dissociative state, where he somehow learned that Venus is a safe place to talk to, as is the writing on the wall, to create order and therefore safety whilst being somewhere in his trauma again. Why I think that? The grounding techniques that are working pretty good. With psychosis just grounding is usually not enough to get someone in the here and now.
I hope you can continue and react to the whole series. There's 2 episodes left. It shows how Charlotte saved him and helped him get through with everything. Their love became their strength to carry on with life... especially the last episode, it literally speaks a lot. Made me bawl my eyes out crying.
I was looking forward to this episode from you! I always learn so much from your videos. I went into the show with the knowledge that most people believed he had a bipolar disorder or porphyria, but after watching this episode, I was not sure. It didn't fit cleanly into any of the boxes I learned about in school and I feared that I was missing something obvious that would tie everything together. I'm glad to hear that you as a mental health expert also see multiple competing symptoms.
He was born 2 months to soon, and was missing an enzym in the body. According to the information my mom found. He could not help that he was missing a part in him that caused certain reactions, like skin problems he had also had stomach problems. The stress and pressure he felt made it worse. Twentieth-century medical investigation, in fact, suggested that the king had an inherited defect in his metabolism known as porphyria. An excess in purple-red pigments in the blood intoxicated all parts of the nervous system, producing the agonizing pain, excited overactivity, paralysis, and delirium that the king suffered in an acute form at least four times during his reign. The porphyria diagnosis, however, is not universally accepted by medical opinion. Porphyria is a group of liver disorders in which substances called porphyrins build up in the body, negatively affecting the skin or nervous system.The types that affect the nervous system are also known as acute porphyria, as symptoms are rapid in onset and short in duration. Symptoms of an attack include abdominal pain, chest pain, vomiting, confusion, constipation, fever, high blood pressure, and high heart rate. The attacks usually last for days to weeks. Complications may include paralysis, low blood sodium levels, and seizures. Attacks may be triggered by alcohol, smoking, hormonal changes, fasting, stress, or certain medications. If the skin is affected, blisters or itching may occur with sunlight exposure.
I think all of us watching just wanted to reach out through the tv and just rescue him from this - let's face it - torture. While watching the show I was very much looking forward to your thoughts on the matter. Thanks 👍🏼 great video
If you do decide to do a look at Lear, there was a production in DC this year and they heavily consulted a gerontologist. There is a very amazing conversation that they have filmed with the cast and creatives. It was the Shakespeare Theater Company in DC
My differential would've been Schizophrenia vs. Schizotypal personality with quasipsychotic or psychotic episodes triggered with stressors, The jaw movements could've been "made" volitional phenomenon. But I'd like to hear other differentials as well. Would definitely consider Antipsychotics for him. Risperidone to start with. add an anticholinergic for sure since he is at risk for EPS. And psychoeducating the family and kin 🤩
The way his illness was depicted read to me as severe anxiety or ptsd exacerbated to mania and delirium by the ways they attempted to treat it. His father was thought to be abusive and he was just expected to move on and run an empire.
Despite not being in line to the throne. I suffer from panic disorder and GAD. Plus bipolar type 2. I could empathise with the crippling pain of being good at something. My veterinary nursing. And my disorder telling me I can't be good at nursing and have bipolar disorder. That the two are incompatible. I can't have love and a mental health condition. However, I have been proven wrong. I deserve love and success, I can have both. But I need to understand that at times I will be poorly. Whether that's in the form of mania or depression when I can't brush my teeth or leave my bed for a week or more. Thank you for your analysis. ❤
The doctor went from 0 to 100 with his power tripping. When he eas initially introduced, he acted like he was different to the other doctors and knew the solution. He cured him for a moment by just using words and was made the king's doctor. Later, the king was starting an episode and the doctor decided to just slap him. It worked but was still a bit shocking. Then later, the doctor changes even more by saying the king needs to only listen to him and to truly be cured he needs to start taking torture classes. Like, wth?? Doctor was obsessed with gaining authority and subjecting him to torture to boost his own ego and the king's mother just let it happen.
I don't know if the writers consulted with a psychologist/psychiatrist for consistency 🤔 But if George was mad then the doctor was mentally ill. The doctor was definitely a sadist. To have a manic treated by a sadist is just wild... It seems like a mix between DID and BPMD... to me the characterization is just overdramatized.
Because he is also listed as having seizures, I was looking for a condition that encompassed multiple symptoms. So, hysteria, mania, anxiety, seizures, insomnia, and disassociation type symptoms. Not too easy. I know some ppl claim bi polar but it just doesn't fit for me. Definitely a medical mystery bc there's much we don't know. 💜
I have functional neurological disorder and my symptoms are very similar with noughts of mania, delusions and hallucinations (which are quite rare) but with seizures, tremors, brain fog (word salad), panic attacks, dissociation etc. being a daily occurrence. And medical personal frequently say to ‘behave’ myself or to stop attention seeking etc. it’s a pain in the arse
It reads as a whole salad of disorders triggerd by extreme and endless exposure to stress and anxiety with absolutely zero coping tools allowed to him. Like it's not cleanly diagnosable because it's obviously not just one thing. It's stress doing the absolute most to his brain. Like someone looked up every possible stress induced disorder and the most extreme ways it can be expressed and then told the actor to do all of it as graphically as possible so that the audience is completely confused and just wants to hug him. And then the same research was done for the wildest/worst "treatments" practiced at Bedlam Asylum and told that actor to do all of that too. That way the audience confusion and sympathy is reinforced at maximum. I was quite entertained by this show, but any passionate romance we come to expect from the Bridgerton series was completely drowned out by the wildly unfocused emotional manipulation from the directors in this series. It was quite much. They could have diled it back and gotten more out of all of the very deep and relatable plot points that they shoehorned into the corners of each episode.
I think it’s important to remember that the show literally gives us a disclaimer that it’s fiction based on fact so certain liberties don’t bother me. Also people are STILL debating what the real King George’s diagnosis would be so the show not presenting a clear cut set of easily diagnosable symptoms isn’t an issue for me. Some people may find the way George is presented as manipulative, but as a person living with bipolar disorder I found parts of his journey very relatable. The fear of an episode that led to him socially isolating and causing him to push away someone that he actually wanted to be close to. The deep sense of shame he experienced surrounding his illness. The complicated relationship with his mother who was simultaneously protective and overbearing. And leeches may not be a treatment in modern times, but people still seek out unproven treatments to “cure” themselves that can do more harm than good. I don’t think George in the show or irl was bipolar (obviously I don’t know), but as a person living with a recurrent mental illness I appreciated his portrayal in the show. Edit: Wanted to add that a show like Bridgerton has always been dramatic and even over the top in its portrayal of love and relationships. I think the writer and director were keeping with that style of storytelling while also telling a story about being in a relationship with someone with a severe mental illness.
@kunglaoshat1250 Fair perspective. My point wasn't that drama has no place in Bridgerton. Obviously, it does. It's just usually quite simple, clear, and manageable.. but over blown as people quite often make mountains out of deeply emotional little mole hills for the plot. It adds context/subtext to why falling in love was simultaneously meaningful and strenuous for them. They had that here, too. But with how they chose to blow up something that was no mole hill back story to start with, the king was actively in a living hell, he was hiding from his wife for half the season and away getting tortured for most of the rest with him lost in his condition for a sizable chunk of what little screen time they actually had together to build any connection. Those relatable plot points exist. They're valuable. And, as I said, they felt shoehorned into the corners of the episodes. My point was, they could have shined more and the tone could have felt more gratifying if they stayed more (more not only) focused on the relationship dynamics rather than trying to display the king as tragicly as possible.
@@rachelsarmientotack Sorry in advance for the novel I’m going to write lol. Also sorry if I’m misunderstanding your point. Anyway I think it’s probably one of those ymmv situations when it comes to opinions about whether the show was manipulative in its portrayal of George or whether enough time was spent developing his relationship with Charlotte. Watching it I didn’t feel like the mental illness stuff or the romance was pushed to the corners. I felt like they were linked and fed into each other. The severity of his illness being the primary obstacle their relationship faced got me super invested because it’s not a problem that’s easily resolved. There wasn’t as much build up to them falling in love, but I don’t mind. I viewed this season as more about fighting for love as opposed to falling in love. I wouldn’t necessarily want that dynamic every season, but I found it a nice change this time around. I admit that I’m not super knowledgeable about the treatments that the real George underwent, but I think that showing his torturous treatments in the show was to make a greater point about the struggles mentally ill people faced during that time. Due to the time period things like George’s extreme treatments, his secrecy (partially due to personal shame and partially to protect his position as king) and the weight that put on him didn’t feel overblown to me. In many ways the real George was a tragic figure due to the degenerative nature of his illness and the lack of knowledge on how to treat him. Personally I found that the tragic aspects of his story added to my investment in the romance because you just want the poor guy to have some happiness while he is still mostly lucid. I didn’t find it manipulative in the same way I didn’t find the flashbacks of Simon’s dad emotionally abusing him or flashbacks of Anthony having to immediately care for his mother and siblings after his dad died manipulative. And thank you for your respectful response. I enjoy having these kinds of discussions even if I disagree with someone, but sometimes people get so defensive or rude it’s hard to have a reasonable conversation.
@kunglaoshat1250 lol As you see, I have a habit of long comments too. I can't be frustrated with someone else trying to express their many thoughts on a topic we're mutually invested in without being a total hypocrite 😅 On that note, maybe "over blown" and "manipulative" were the wrong words to use. I can see how such language may feel offensive to someone who relates to these social challenges and deals with people trying to minimize their plight by saying they're just being overdramatic all the time. It makes sense that you couldn't help but to disagree and point out that the screen time investment on the illness itself was meaningful to get across the point about the mental health and social tragedies that people have faced and still do to a degree. It WAS the major backdrop for this whole story. I think those words just came to mind as a way to express that it seems, to me, that it wasn't handled very thoughtfully and there was so much of it in comparison to those moments that DID hit close to the heart. And that their attempt to make the audience cry in sympathy for a tragic character had more of the "Yikes! What am I watching? This is more insane than King George's condition itself." effect. Which also wasn't quite thoughtfully solved by just saying, "Let him just be 'crazy' and not do anything to help him cope other than holding his hand and hoping for the best." Obviously, that didn't help much long term. Or even short term. I understand that in those times without the medication and education we have today, there wasn't much more that could be done for him compassionately.... but talk therapy and grounding techniques seemed to be working periodically to work past those anxiety triggers before it spirals into a full manic or disassociative episode. If they could have drawn out the time in which those methods were used to increase those precious lucid moments between the main characters, maybe even shorten the hiding and shame in the first half by an episode or even half, then perhaps the pacing of the relationship development wouldn't have felt so disproportionate. It's fair if you're not of the same opinion. This is just me expressing my own thoughts, how I came to my opinion, and what I would suggest to have made it better.
@@rachelsarmientotack Oh don’t worry I wasn’t offended by your comments. Also I was not prepared for “this is more insane than King George’s condition” 😂 My mental illness isn’t nearly as extreme as what was portrayed in the show, but I still can’t help wondering what my life would look like without medication, therapy and a strong family support system. I related to parts of what was portrayed so I sort of jumped into defending the show. I came into the show with low expectations and ended up loving it more than the regular seasons of Bridgeton. That said I can totally see how some of your suggestions could have been incorporated into the show to build on the relationship between George and Charlotte. I think part of what made this season feel different is that Shonda Rhimes wrote the episodes instead of just being a producer like she is on the main Bridgerton show. She is known for writing ensemble shows with big dramatic moments (Grey’s Anatomy, Scandal, How to Get Away With Murder) where romance isn’t necessarily to end all be all of the story. Julia Quinn is a romance writer so the love story is always going be prioritized and S1 and S2 are based on her books. Both women are talented so I’m not saying one style is better than the other. Just a theory about why this series might have been structured differently than previous seasons
I could barely watch the torture. As someone with ASD along with a good side of depression and anxiety, this just set me off. I’d been in hospital for a bad infection and two surgeries and it just freaked me out and took me back to hell where I’d had a massive meltdown and uncontrollable blood pressure (despite meds for it). It was hideous
The one thing that irked me the most was when Queen Charlotte gave him an easy way out. Miss girl should’ve punished him harder bc it was evident the doctor hated the King/monarchy and took advantage of “treating” George. She was way too kind about it. That’s just me though. 🤷🏾♀️
I really think I could not go through your video without crying. I had to press fast forward when I came up to the senses in the videos. Wrong treatment almost killed the king.
Mmm that doesn't really seem like word Salad in the beginning bc there was a coherent line of thought with his fiancé traveling, ship travel, and the use of stars for navigation.
In addition he seems to also be on the asd (autistic spectrum) and is Masking a lot and seems to have austistim meltdowns plus maybe bipolar. Something to consider as well.
I'm curious to know what could have been done back then to help people who have these illnesses. Like back then if someone knew exactly what was wrong with him and why, given the resources that would have been available then is there anything that could have been done then to help people with any/all the symptoms like what George has in this film?
Dr. Carthy, Your content is incredible, and your chin is magnificent. Thank you for blessing us with your thoughts. (trans man from near Washington DC USA saying hi!)
The entertainment industry always takes creative license with historical facts, because apparently the actual events weren't exciting enough. Docudramas that claim the 'based on historical events' label should actually say 'based extremely loosely on historical events: 75% of what you are about to see is just sh*t we made up'.
At the beginning of the show there is a disclaimer that while these are historical figures, this is a fictional retelling of terror story and that inaccuracies are deliberate. Basically, their telling the story they want. It is not a documentary.
@@safirestudio Sorry, I was complaining more about other programs. Pretty much nothing beyond some of the place and people names and some of the wardrobe in Bridgerton is historically accurate.
Isn't it strange how Drs using leeches turned into a joke but in these hopefully more enlightened time they are used again Ok yes maybe not the same thinking behind the use but they are used all the same
Yeah, leeches bred in a steril facility used as a localized blood thinner vs a likey diseased tool to bleed someone dry or to intentionally trigger anxiety is drastically different... but the action is similar. Apply creepy, bitey, water bug. Let it eat it's fill. Watch the patient squirm because they're creeped out and uncomfortable as heck.
King George the 3rd did in fact have this mental illness & I did research on him on wiki & it is said that everybody thought he was bipolar, but I know in fact he was not bipolar, I know from experience being around bipolar people. My husband is type 2 bipolar manic depressive & I don't see him doing twitches, talking to himself or anything like what King George is doing in this show.
Rachel - but there are many different forms of bi-polar in addition to comorbidity with other disorders. My husband was mixed-state bipolar. As it is left untreated, get gets worse and can start to resemble schizophrenia. Think it is dangerous to generalize based on one person we know with a disorder.
@@elisabethlavery4473 I don't disagree with you, I've only known people with type 1 & type 2 Manic. My husband doesn't want treatment because he thinks the Ned's don't work & will turn him into a zombie lol he has also said that he doesn't like the way they make him feel, but he is also a narcissist which made it very hard to live with him. I am away from him now lol
The twitching e.t.c. is just an interpretation of the actor and the show creators, as far as I know. This is a good show that has some inspiration from history but is very much fiction. For instance, George's first episode was 4 years after his marriage, and he organised his marriage to Charlotte, not his mother.
Utter nonsense, you say? *Plucks leeches off torso*. Are you trying to tell me I wasted good money on all these keeches? What do I do with the REST of them?
His humors were out of sorts. Not much could be done without a prescription pad and zipping forward a few hundred years, It is interesting to understand what was wrong but being judgemental over what the doctors had to work with is petty
One thing that has bugged me about the Porphyria theory is that it’s hereditary, so why aren’t we seeing porphyria in any modern royals? Update: I looked it up and while some royals have been thought about as also having porphyria, I still find Bipolar as more likely www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4953737/
I think it’s worth considering that SOME of his known symptoms were caused by his many ridiculous treatments. Now, almost 300 years later, it’s hard to differentiate between his original symptoms, and those caused by his treatments. Making a post facto diagnosis even more difficult.
We have carried out chemical testing on his tissues and he had high levels of arsenic present. It is thought that the arsenic in his system, probably introduced in his make-up, caused enough liver damage that he developed acute porphyria as a result. This leads to a build up of porphyrins in the blood stream at unnatural levels which in turn causes one's nervous system to temporarily go haywire.
@@hoathanatos6179 Lots of people back then used the same kind of make-up, but there wasn't a staggering number of cases such as the king's, which makes me think there must have been some other way he got exposed to arsenic. Dubious treatments for something are quite plausible, actually.
@@oana-mariauliu5828 Yeah. It could have been used in medicines given to him by these "doctors".
The fact that this man managed to live upto 70 is a miracle
One thing I noticed: the night after the ball when George went downstairs and was talking to the Dr, and the Dr. told him he was treating Charlotte, and she was pregnant, no one knew that at that point. Not even she did. I think the doctor told him that because he knew George wouldn't want him near his wife, and the surprise of her being pregnant would trigger a panic attack. And that's just what happened. He wanted George to have his episodes.
While I hate what George (and sadly many people with mental illnesses during that time) had to endure, I have to agree: we still to this day don't allow leaders to be mentally ill without questioning their quality of leadership and view it as a weakness. I think George's mother in this show wanted to shield her son from the judgment of other people and tried to help medically behind the scenes, but medicine being what it was back then couldn't help him sufficiently.
There's a book based on the show now and in George's chapters, he describes his state while having the onset of a manic episode and the way you described word salad is spot on with the text. Thank you for all the insight!
I had no idea there was a book. What is the title?
@@kunglaoshat1250 Queen Charlotte by Shonda Rhimes and Julia Quinn. It's the companion book to the show.
@@iole15 Thank you! I’m going to check it out
This... among other things ..the shame etc
As someone with bipolar who read the book and saw the series it really is a good description of bipolar for me. Dissociation can happen as well as "word salad". The racing thoughts in my head are frightening and I am most grateful for a much better treatment nowadays. He must have suffered a lot.
If you look back on his childhood he had a lot of trauma. The trauma entwines with the crown that he basically forced to do. He was abused by his grandfather at such a young age. He also had trauma with all the treatments he went through which most likely the treatments made him worse and his symptoms worse. You can tell how his symptoms were less when he was just being farmer George. So have to tie all of the crown and the trauma together.
What I don’t understand is how the doctor went from talking to extreme treatments. Like was the “ talking “ just for him to become the doctor and get control?
That doctor did everything he said he doesn't do.
Exactly! At least the first doctors were honest about their treatments 🤣🥴
Just finished the series yesterday and that's exactly what I've been saying.
From saying he only uses his voice.
The doctor went from 0 to 100 with his power tripping. When he eas initially introduced, he acted like he was different to the other doctors and knew the solution. He cured him for a moment by just using words and was made the king's doctor. Later, the king was starting an episode and the doctor decided to just slap him. It worked but was still a bit shocking. Then later, the doctor changes even more by saying the king needs to only listen to him and also to truly be cured needs to start torture classes. Like, wth?? Doctor was obsessed with gaining authority and subjecting him to torture to boost his own ego and the king's mother just let it happen.
I think the show creator was purposely vague about which mental illness is portrayed; however, I do think the symptoms and triggers are consistent.
That makes sense, mental illness today, even with all we know, can be several things and hard to narrow down to clear 1-2 things we can then treat.
I agree with you. It seems like multiple disorders in one. However, I have to give credit to the show runners who didn't just go for the easy way and shock value and maintained a certain consistency with it. More respect than many other shows with "mental illnesses" in it.
The whole "treatment" was very detailed described in the book. It's just torture like in the series. It's a shame that they didn't know better then, I believe! Watching Corey Mylchreest play King George III was tough because he played so well. The Doctor should have been punished more in my opinion.
What really infuriated me about the doctor that ends up treating George is that he initially claims he’ll treat George by simply “talking to him”, which is how we treat pretty much all mental illnesses now alongside meds if needed…but he ended up torturing George instead. I guess he did start by talking to him to force him out of his episodes but then when George asked to be experimented on he tortured him but it’s still disgusting.
Lord i was really looking forward to someone that is a doctor or phycologist to look into this. I hope you do the next episode too it gives his full perspective of what is happening to him and more insight on the "" treatment"" he received. As well as how he got out in the next episode. Really looking forward to it 😊
I have GAD and when I saw the scenes of how they "treated" him I was offended and incredibly provoked. Because many historians has sugested he might have been Bipolar, and its like Charlotte said. If the king needs to be mad then he shall be mad.
Someone with mental health issues needs to let their feelings and thoughts out instead of pushing them away.
I believe that not only did he have bipolar, but I'm pretty sure the "treatment" he got caused him to have some PTSD as well, hence the shaking hands. And I believe that before the treatment, he might have had some PTSD aswell that was caused by the people around him telling him how he needed to be and if he wasnt he would be punished for it. And it doesnt help that when he first broke out, people called him mad or insane. That doesnt help at all cuz if people say that, then the person who has it is gonna believe it too and that will create alot of selfdoubt.
George NEEDED Charlotte. He needed someone who understood him, someone to support him, and be there for him when he needed it. Someone to just listen to him when he talked and give him love and happyness. Someone to just LOVE him.
Because talking and understanding, treating them like a human being and just being there for them is the best treatments of them all. Because not only does it help someone who's troubled, it also helps to prevent a child to end up so troubled as well.
I also believe it was a huge amount of anxiety mixed with abandonment issues! The shaking can be seen as panic attacks.
Yeah, exactly! I believe so too! 💕
In George's episode with his mother his word salad does make sense. He loves the study of astronomy, and its one of his safe places he retreats to along with farming. In that scene he is spouting off consultations
Edit: also with the talk of the moon and sexton and being lost that's to do with navigation of the sea done with a sexton and the night sky following stars
This is why I think one of his conflicting diagnosis were D.I.D. (Dissociative Personally Disorder)
And when he start talking about the stars that's or farming he really is just "Farmer George" or completely Dissociated to his one safe haven the stars. Because we see when he comes to im bed he has no memory of these episodes.
An the torture only made it worse along with deterioration of the mind
I cant comment on the real King but in this show Im fairly certain he had ptsd in addition to other stuff. His mother talks about them being abused when his father died. The 'treatments' made it worse.
I also think the doctor wasnt actually trying to cure him but to condition the king to be obediant to, and reliant on thw doctor so the doctor could gain political power.
I’ve seen the entire series by now and - not a doc, just informed member of the public - my bet would be severe ptsd with dissociation and reliving trauma. The call to Venus sounds to me like a young dissociative state, where he somehow learned that Venus is a safe place to talk to, as is the writing on the wall, to create order and therefore safety whilst being somewhere in his trauma again.
Why I think that? The grounding techniques that are working pretty good. With psychosis just grounding is usually not enough to get someone in the here and now.
I hope you can continue and react to the whole series. There's 2 episodes left. It shows how Charlotte saved him and helped him get through with everything. Their love became their strength to carry on with life... especially the last episode, it literally speaks a lot. Made me bawl my eyes out crying.
You said, "All about control"..that is exactly the way the Dr was handling the King.
I was looking forward to this episode from you! I always learn so much from your videos. I went into the show with the knowledge that most people believed he had a bipolar disorder or porphyria, but after watching this episode, I was not sure. It didn't fit cleanly into any of the boxes I learned about in school and I feared that I was missing something obvious that would tie everything together. I'm glad to hear that you as a mental health expert also see multiple competing symptoms.
He was born 2 months to soon, and was missing an enzym in the body. According to the information my mom found. He could not help that he was missing a part in him that caused certain reactions, like skin problems he had also had stomach problems. The stress and pressure he felt made it worse.
Twentieth-century medical investigation, in fact, suggested that the king had an inherited defect in his metabolism known as porphyria. An excess in purple-red pigments in the blood intoxicated all parts of the nervous system, producing the agonizing pain, excited overactivity, paralysis, and delirium that the king suffered in an acute form at least four times during his reign. The porphyria diagnosis, however, is not universally accepted by medical opinion.
Porphyria is a group of liver disorders in which substances called porphyrins build up in the body, negatively affecting the skin or nervous system.The types that affect the nervous system are also known as acute porphyria, as symptoms are rapid in onset and short in duration. Symptoms of an attack include abdominal pain, chest pain, vomiting, confusion, constipation, fever, high blood pressure, and high heart rate. The attacks usually last for days to weeks. Complications may include paralysis, low blood sodium levels, and seizures. Attacks may be triggered by alcohol, smoking, hormonal changes, fasting, stress, or certain medications. If the skin is affected, blisters or itching may occur with sunlight exposure.
I think all of us watching just wanted to reach out through the tv and just rescue him from this - let's face it - torture. While watching the show I was very much looking forward to your thoughts on the matter. Thanks 👍🏼 great video
Absolutely! It was hard to watch. I definitely felt like that. Just wanting to rescue him.
You are right its not treatment. Its torture. 😂
I love the not eye roll, but the hard contemplation of the ceiling, like calling for help!!
Your horror in reaction to what Monro started doing is exactly how I felt
If you do decide to do a look at Lear, there was a production in DC this year and they heavily consulted a gerontologist. There is a very amazing conversation that they have filmed with the cast and creatives. It was the Shakespeare Theater Company in DC
Your reaction to the torture room was the exact same as mine I was horrified 😭😭
My differential would've been Schizophrenia vs. Schizotypal personality with quasipsychotic or psychotic episodes triggered with stressors,
The jaw movements could've been "made" volitional phenomenon.
But I'd like to hear other differentials as well.
Would definitely consider Antipsychotics for him. Risperidone to start with. add an anticholinergic for sure since he is at risk for EPS. And psychoeducating the family and kin 🤩
The way his illness was depicted read to me as severe anxiety or ptsd exacerbated to mania and delirium by the ways they attempted to treat it. His father was thought to be abusive and he was just expected to move on and run an empire.
Despite not being in line to the throne. I suffer from panic disorder and GAD. Plus bipolar type 2. I could empathise with the crippling pain of being good at something. My veterinary nursing. And my disorder telling me I can't be good at nursing and have bipolar disorder. That the two are incompatible. I can't have love and a mental health condition. However, I have been proven wrong. I deserve love and success, I can have both. But I need to understand that at times I will be poorly. Whether that's in the form of mania or depression when I can't brush my teeth or leave my bed for a week or more.
Thank you for your analysis. ❤
The doctor went from 0 to 100 with his power tripping. When he eas initially introduced, he acted like he was different to the other doctors and knew the solution. He cured him for a moment by just using words and was made the king's doctor. Later, the king was starting an episode and the doctor decided to just slap him. It worked but was still a bit shocking. Then later, the doctor changes even more by saying the king needs to only listen to him and to truly be cured he needs to start taking torture classes. Like, wth?? Doctor was obsessed with gaining authority and subjecting him to torture to boost his own ego and the king's mother just let it happen.
I don't know if the writers consulted with a psychologist/psychiatrist for consistency 🤔 But if George was mad then the doctor was mentally ill. The doctor was definitely a sadist. To have a manic treated by a sadist is just wild... It seems like a mix between DID and BPMD... to me the characterization is just overdramatized.
"The Madness of King George" fully buys into the porphyria theory, doesn't it?
Yes.
I would love an analysis of the doctor once the episodes involving him are over.
I wonder if he has more than 1 thing going on. and that stress brought out these moments of ill health
Because he is also listed as having seizures, I was looking for a condition that encompassed multiple symptoms.
So, hysteria, mania, anxiety, seizures, insomnia, and disassociation type symptoms. Not too easy.
I know some ppl claim bi polar but it just doesn't fit for me. Definitely a medical mystery bc there's much we don't know. 💜
I have functional neurological disorder and my symptoms are very similar with noughts of mania, delusions and hallucinations (which are quite rare) but with seizures, tremors, brain fog (word salad), panic attacks, dissociation etc. being a daily occurrence.
And medical personal frequently say to ‘behave’ myself or to stop attention seeking etc. it’s a pain in the arse
It reads as a whole salad of disorders triggerd by extreme and endless exposure to stress and anxiety with absolutely zero coping tools allowed to him. Like it's not cleanly diagnosable because it's obviously not just one thing. It's stress doing the absolute most to his brain.
Like someone looked up every possible stress induced disorder and the most extreme ways it can be expressed and then told the actor to do all of it as graphically as possible so that the audience is completely confused and just wants to hug him.
And then the same research was done for the wildest/worst "treatments" practiced at Bedlam Asylum and told that actor to do all of that too. That way the audience confusion and sympathy is reinforced at maximum.
I was quite entertained by this show, but any passionate romance we come to expect from the Bridgerton series was completely drowned out by the wildly unfocused emotional manipulation from the directors in this series. It was quite much. They could have diled it back and gotten more out of all of the very deep and relatable plot points that they shoehorned into the corners of each episode.
I think it’s important to remember that the show literally gives us a disclaimer that it’s fiction based on fact so certain liberties don’t bother me. Also people are STILL debating what the real King George’s diagnosis would be so the show not presenting a clear cut set of easily diagnosable symptoms isn’t an issue for me.
Some people may find the way George is presented as manipulative, but as a person living with bipolar disorder I found parts of his journey very relatable. The fear of an episode that led to him socially isolating and causing him to push away someone that he actually wanted to be close to. The deep sense of shame he experienced surrounding his illness. The complicated relationship with his mother who was simultaneously protective and overbearing. And leeches may not be a treatment in modern times, but people still seek out unproven treatments to “cure” themselves that can do more harm than good. I don’t think George in the show or irl was bipolar (obviously I don’t know), but as a person living with a recurrent mental illness I appreciated his portrayal in the show.
Edit: Wanted to add that a show like Bridgerton has always been dramatic and even over the top in its portrayal of love and relationships. I think the writer and director were keeping with that style of storytelling while also telling a story about being in a relationship with someone with a severe mental illness.
@kunglaoshat1250 Fair perspective. My point wasn't that drama has no place in Bridgerton. Obviously, it does. It's just usually quite simple, clear, and manageable.. but over blown as people quite often make mountains out of deeply emotional little mole hills for the plot. It adds context/subtext to why falling in love was simultaneously meaningful and strenuous for them.
They had that here, too. But with how they chose to blow up something that was no mole hill back story to start with, the king was actively in a living hell, he was hiding from his wife for half the season and away getting tortured for most of the rest with him lost in his condition for a sizable chunk of what little screen time they actually had together to build any connection.
Those relatable plot points exist. They're valuable. And, as I said, they felt shoehorned into the corners of the episodes. My point was, they could have shined more and the tone could have felt more gratifying if they stayed more (more not only) focused on the relationship dynamics rather than trying to display the king as tragicly as possible.
@@rachelsarmientotack Sorry in advance for the novel I’m going to write lol. Also sorry if I’m misunderstanding your point. Anyway I think it’s probably one of those ymmv situations when it comes to opinions about whether the show was manipulative in its portrayal of George or whether enough time was spent developing his relationship with Charlotte. Watching it I didn’t feel like the mental illness stuff or the romance was pushed to the corners. I felt like they were linked and fed into each other. The severity of his illness being the primary obstacle their relationship faced got me super invested because it’s not a problem that’s easily resolved. There wasn’t as much build up to them falling in love, but I don’t mind. I viewed this season as more about fighting for love as opposed to falling in love. I wouldn’t necessarily want that dynamic every season, but I found it a nice change this time around.
I admit that I’m not super knowledgeable about the treatments that the real George underwent, but I think that showing his torturous treatments in the show was to make a greater point about the struggles mentally ill people faced during that time. Due to the time period things like George’s extreme treatments, his secrecy (partially due to personal shame and partially to protect his position as king) and the weight that put on him didn’t feel overblown to me.
In many ways the real George was a tragic figure due to the degenerative nature of his illness and the lack of knowledge on how to treat him. Personally I found that the tragic aspects of his story added to my investment in the romance because you just want the poor guy to have some happiness while he is still mostly lucid. I didn’t find it manipulative in the same way I didn’t find the flashbacks of Simon’s dad emotionally abusing him or flashbacks of Anthony having to immediately care for his mother and siblings after his dad died manipulative.
And thank you for your respectful response. I enjoy having these kinds of discussions even if I disagree with someone, but sometimes people get so defensive or rude it’s hard to have a reasonable conversation.
@kunglaoshat1250 lol As you see, I have a habit of long comments too. I can't be frustrated with someone else trying to express their many thoughts on a topic we're mutually invested in without being a total hypocrite 😅
On that note, maybe "over blown" and "manipulative" were the wrong words to use. I can see how such language may feel offensive to someone who relates to these social challenges and deals with people trying to minimize their plight by saying they're just being overdramatic all the time. It makes sense that you couldn't help but to disagree and point out that the screen time investment on the illness itself was meaningful to get across the point about the mental health and social tragedies that people have faced and still do to a degree. It WAS the major backdrop for this whole story.
I think those words just came to mind as a way to express that it seems, to me, that it wasn't handled very thoughtfully and there was so much of it in comparison to those moments that DID hit close to the heart. And that their attempt to make the audience cry in sympathy for a tragic character had more of the "Yikes! What am I watching? This is more insane than King George's condition itself." effect. Which also wasn't quite thoughtfully solved by just saying, "Let him just be 'crazy' and not do anything to help him cope other than holding his hand and hoping for the best." Obviously, that didn't help much long term. Or even short term. I understand that in those times without the medication and education we have today, there wasn't much more that could be done for him compassionately.... but talk therapy and grounding techniques seemed to be working periodically to work past those anxiety triggers before it spirals into a full manic or disassociative episode. If they could have drawn out the time in which those methods were used to increase those precious lucid moments between the main characters, maybe even shorten the hiding and shame in the first half by an episode or even half, then perhaps the pacing of the relationship development wouldn't have felt so disproportionate.
It's fair if you're not of the same opinion. This is just me expressing my own thoughts, how I came to my opinion, and what I would suggest to have made it better.
@@rachelsarmientotack Oh don’t worry I wasn’t offended by your comments. Also I was not prepared for “this is more insane than King George’s condition” 😂
My mental illness isn’t nearly as extreme as what was portrayed in the show, but I still can’t help wondering what my life would look like without medication, therapy and a strong family support system. I related to parts of what was portrayed so I sort of jumped into defending the show. I came into the show with low expectations and ended up loving it more than the regular seasons of Bridgeton. That said I can totally see how some of your suggestions could have been incorporated into the show to build on the relationship between George and Charlotte.
I think part of what made this season feel different is that Shonda Rhimes wrote the episodes instead of just being a producer like she is on the main Bridgerton show. She is known for writing ensemble shows with big dramatic moments (Grey’s Anatomy, Scandal, How to Get Away With Murder) where romance isn’t necessarily to end all be all of the story. Julia Quinn is a romance writer so the love story is always going be prioritized and S1 and S2 are based on her books. Both women are talented so I’m not saying one style is better than the other. Just a theory about why this series might have been structured differently than previous seasons
I could barely watch the torture. As someone with ASD along with a good side of depression and anxiety, this just set me off. I’d been in hospital for a bad infection and two surgeries and it just freaked me out and took me back to hell where I’d had a massive meltdown and uncontrollable blood pressure (despite meds for it). It was hideous
The one thing that irked me the most was when Queen Charlotte gave him an easy way out. Miss girl should’ve punished him harder bc it was evident the doctor hated the King/monarchy and took advantage of “treating” George. She was way too kind about it. That’s just me though. 🤷🏾♀️
I really think I could not go through your video without crying. I had to press fast forward when I came up to the senses in the videos. Wrong treatment almost killed the king.
Mmm that doesn't really seem like word Salad in the beginning bc there was a coherent line of thought with his fiancé traveling, ship travel, and the use of stars for navigation.
In addition he seems to also be on the asd (autistic spectrum) and is Masking a lot and seems to have austistim meltdowns plus maybe bipolar. Something to consider as well.
he didnt have autism. the issues started very long in life with memory loss
I don't know if you can ..bit read the books it gives a lot more and you spend time with George a lot more so it may assist you
As someone who takes an SNRI, it has saved my life. Along with therapy of course.
I'm curious to know what could have been done back then to help people who have these illnesses. Like back then if someone knew exactly what was wrong with him and why, given the resources that would have been available then is there anything that could have been done then to help people with any/all the symptoms like what George has in this film?
Is George saying 'torture' or 'doctor' in the scene with the leeches?
Dr. Carthy,
Your content is incredible, and your chin is magnificent.
Thank you for blessing us with your thoughts.
(trans man from near Washington DC USA saying hi!)
The entertainment industry always takes creative license with historical facts, because apparently the actual events weren't exciting enough. Docudramas that claim the 'based on historical events' label should actually say 'based extremely loosely on historical events: 75% of what you are about to see is just sh*t we made up'.
At the beginning of the show there is a disclaimer that while these are historical figures, this is a fictional retelling of terror story and that inaccuracies are deliberate. Basically, their telling the story they want. It is not a documentary.
@@safirestudio Sorry, I was complaining more about other programs. Pretty much nothing beyond some of the place and people names and some of the wardrobe in Bridgerton is historically accurate.
It’s not a fu** docudramas so why are you even complaining about ?
@@Here4Years Yes because it's an uchronic "period" drama
Not the right time to say all those treatments throughout his lifetime made the condition much much worse.
Hey, can you talk about the London police screening people for undiagnosed ADHD?
I'm sorry, what?
This is why I have SEVERE trust issues.
If only lithium would have existed then
Isn't it strange how Drs using leeches turned into a joke but in these hopefully more enlightened time they are used again Ok yes maybe not the same thinking behind the use but they are used all the same
Yeah, leeches bred in a steril facility used as a localized blood thinner vs a likey diseased tool to bleed someone dry or to intentionally trigger anxiety is drastically different... but the action is similar. Apply creepy, bitey, water bug. Let it eat it's fill. Watch the patient squirm because they're creeped out and uncomfortable as heck.
I wonder what king point of view in the book then the movie
King George the 3rd did in fact have this mental illness & I did research on him on wiki & it is said that everybody thought he was bipolar, but I know in fact he was not bipolar, I know from experience being around bipolar people. My husband is type 2 bipolar manic depressive & I don't see him doing twitches, talking to himself or anything like what King George is doing in this show.
Rachel - but there are many different forms of bi-polar in addition to comorbidity with other disorders. My husband was mixed-state bipolar. As it is left untreated, get gets worse and can start to resemble schizophrenia. Think it is dangerous to generalize based on one person we know with a disorder.
@@elisabethlavery4473 I don't disagree with you, I've only known people with type 1 & type 2 Manic. My husband doesn't want treatment because he thinks the Ned's don't work & will turn him into a zombie lol he has also said that he doesn't like the way they make him feel, but he is also a narcissist which made it very hard to live with him. I am away from him now lol
The twitching e.t.c. is just an interpretation of the actor and the show creators, as far as I know. This is a good show that has some inspiration from history but is very much fiction. For instance, George's first episode was 4 years after his marriage, and he organised his marriage to Charlotte, not his mother.
Utter nonsense, you say? *Plucks leeches off torso*. Are you trying to tell me I wasted good money on all these keeches? What do I do with the REST of them?
😰😭🤔🫣😫🥰🎛🖥( sorry I atrocious have grammar I make most my comments in my emoji language because I feel are more meaningful then words , for I'm Autistic
Do you think ADHD can be treated with supplements?
Isn’t adhd regularly treated with caffeine?
*THIS IS ABUSE*
His humors were out of sorts. Not much could be done without a prescription pad and zipping forward a few hundred years, It is interesting to understand what was wrong but being judgemental over what the doctors had to work with is petty
Doctor waht happened to your forehead?
never seen pimples before?
One thing that has bugged me about the Porphyria theory is that it’s hereditary, so why aren’t we seeing porphyria in any modern royals?
Update: I looked it up and while some royals have been thought about as also having porphyria, I still find Bipolar as more likely
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4953737/