Bill Schnee: Engineering Steely Dan's Aja
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- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2024
- In this episode, legendary audio engineer Bill Schnee shares his extensive experience in the music industry, including his work with Steely Dan (Aja) and Ringo Starr (Ringo, Goodnight Vienna). He delves into the technical aspects of recording and mixing, offering valuable tips for both aspiring and established audio engineers. Schnee also reflects on the evolution of music production, highlighting how technology has shaped the sound of music over the decades.
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FYI....I was the one who delivered and tuned the drums for the Aja recording session . I was the head of the Drum Department at SIR in 1976 and 1977 and prepared the Red Sparkle Ludwig Drum Set ordered for the Steely Dan recording session featuring Steve Gadd. Both Steve and I set the drums up after I arrived at The Producer's Workshop that afternoon at the Crossroads of the World on the Sunset Blvd entrance. Steve used a beloved & brand new 21" Zildjian Rock Ride that he had just acquired and he was excited about it's sound and feel. He also used 2 of his cracked [17 & 18"] Zildjian crash cymbals on the right and left sides of his set which were already set up before I arrived with the Ludwig Red Sparkle (Maple) kit and trap case. You can hear their "off color" sound with every crash he played.
The long & extensive score of Aja was stretched all the way across the front of the set taped from Steve's right crash cymbal stand all the way over to his left crash cymbal stand so he could see it, as he told me then, in it's entirety without having to turn pages. He used his own Ludwig chrome snare drum and 14" High Hats. The tom toms were 12 inch and 13 inch toms with a 16 inch floor tom.
Prior to making the delivery, I had tuned the drums in a deep and rich tuning interval of a perfect 4th from low to high [Here Comes the Bride is the melodic sound of an interval of a perfect 4th ]. All of the drums had clear heads with black dots in the centers as did the 22" Bass Drum. With the set came a basic Ludwig " Speed King" Bass drum pedal [ $15.00 ] which was attached to the bass drum when I left that afternoon. As I was leaving, Beatle Producer, George Martin, was coming in the front door. This is something that no one has ever mentioned in any interview but that only I know about because I was there as a witness that afternoon. It's good to hear that Steve also recorded those Leo Sayer songs with Richard Perry producing. The drums sounded killer on all of those "HIT" songs!!!
Wow!🥁 great comment, anything else you can add in regards to that session? Did you take it back? Did you see the mic placements?
Thank you for your comment - when I hear the record I keep hearing those low-tuned toms and they're DELICIOUS sounding.
Crossroads of the World. lol. I worked in Hollywood in the late '70s early '80s. That was the seediest area of Hollywood. If you tossed a stone it would strike a dozen heroin addicts and basket people. N. Cherokee, Whitley Ave, Yucca St. were 'nice' areas that reminded me of some Steely Dan songs. Fun memories.
Amazing!
So cool
Even if its over Zoom, Rick needs to interview Fagen. Famously prickly, im sure he could bring the best out of him.
Couldn’t agree more. Rick would definitely bring the best out of him. Fingers crossed!
Boy that would be a great get.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
Wish Roger Nichols were still around.
@@elliotcurrie7143 Omg, the immortal one. That'd be great. Cimcie would be a good interview as well, especially since she found a lot of her dad's tapes and stuff that was recorded for Gaucho.
Man. Gotta say, on top of Rick’s interview style and the topics he covers, I would say that ALL the people he has interviewed have been the most humble, open, pleasant, interestED and interestING folks ever. These are just pure gold.
That is a credit to his interview style. He asks a question then as Bernard Purdie said in his interview, "Gets out of the way".
He focuses on their mutual passion for the art, and the rest takes care of itself.
He even made Yngwie seem humble and nice.
@😂frank-ski
Except for Maynard! Talked about his stupid wine for an hour. Love Tool, but Maynard is obnoxious.
"Rick Beato 3": an Aja-only channel!
Good One :)
Yeah!
I would dig it😂
I would sub that, it's my favorite album and year of all time with Dark Side of the Moon a close 2nd.
Steely Dan deserves credit as the most sophisticated music ever put together. Rick, go ahead and interview D Fagen, if he is ok with that.
Absolutely fascinating interview. Funny story about the album Aja. I used to work in Paul Reed Smith's shop and played in his band when he started, and would drive him home from gigs (I crashed in the shop for a while to greet customers early). Every time he would get in my old car, he would demand I put in the Aja cassette tape. Decent upgraded stereo and speakers for back then and couldn't believe how great the arrangement, mix, sound, and presentation was. He liked to control the music while I drove and of course I let him have fun. I loved it then and love it now. Great memory. So cool to hear the guy AT the board when the magic happened.
Cant wait for the Ringo and Mccartney Episodes!
Then Page and Plant!
You can Do it Beato!!!!!!
Nahhhhhhhhh
BEATO BEATO BEATO BEATO!!!!
Then Jesus and Bach!
@@StreetsOfVancouverChannel a man can dream 😢
@@kickstar1they WISH!
Bill is a fantastic storyteller, so great to see him here!
A few years ago I was in a shopping centre in Sydney and noticed Leo Sayer standing next to me. He used to live in Glebe. Being a drummer and knowing that he used Porcaro a lot I introduced myself and then had a chance to ask him why does the snare sound change in the final verse of You Make Me Feel Like Dancing - this was his reply. " Wow you are the only person that has ever asked me that". He then went to disclose that the track was Gadd and Porcaro. Hence the slight change in snare sound, touch and attack. Porcaro's take comes in at the final verse. I used to practice along to the track and with good headphones its noticeable. Confirmed by Leo himself.
Cool story, and you have a great ear!
Great tale. Cheers.
Wow, that's some next-level hearing. I just listened to the track three times in a row and could barely discern that.
Sweet❤
I actually was at the session that Jeff Porcaro recorded with Richard Perry producing at a completely different studio. I was delivering a piece of equipment and briefly went in while Jeff was there. I met Jeff in 1976 and throughout 1977 while working at SIR for,... he was often there rehearsing with many artists...almost like his 2nd home. I also was at many of the Boz Scaggs rehearsals in a very large rehearsal studio way in the back of SIR with the very early TOTO band members being used as his back up band....Jeff, David, Mike, Luke.
This interview could have been 10 hours long and I'd have been glued to it. Thank you.
His Steely Dan work is absolutely incredible. The space, precision, depth .....incredible.
Agree 💯
It’s worth mentioning that the legendary Al Schmitt was the third engineer on Aja. He apprenticed under Tom Dowd at his uncles studio in the 40s. He has collected 20 Grammys since, and is the only engineer that has a star on the walk of fame. Sadly, he passed in 2021. He mixed Peg and Deacon Blues.
I remember watching a RUclips tribute to him and Bill Schnee was very emotional talking about him.
It's worth it to get Al Schmitt's book.
As someone who Engineers and Records I really appreciate when you have legends of music production on like Bill Schnee
I "borrowed" this album from my older sister when I was a teenager. I would put it on my turntable in the dark and lay on my bed and just soak in every single note. It is, for me, one of the greatest albums ever released by any artist or group, EVER.
Edit: I was a total metal head at the time.
Agreed. One of the best records ever made… the sound, the songs, the performances, all top notch.
Desert island recording for sure
Fellow Metal Head agrees \m/
Amazing album. Since that very first base line
Also a total metal head and a grunge geek, but I LOVE that late 70’s early 80’s Steely Dan elegance.
I have Bill Schnee's book... EXCELLENT! He's humble, talented, and has been involved in some of the greatest music in history! Great interview Rick! 🎶🎹🎸
I agree - It's a good, interesting read. And Rick's interviewing style is tops. He asks the right questions to move it along yet stays out of the way during the answers.
Jeff Porcaro's favorite engineer was Bill Schnee.
Excellent book! So was the one for AL Schmitt!
I agree! 🎶@@RaincloudmusicTFS6
first time I heard this (Aja) I knew the recording industry had peaked here with Fagan and Becker--as Rick says here, the clarity, the punch, the separation, it was gorgeous right off the vinyl LP. Nothing has ever sounded the same!
One of the best guitar bands eva
Completely agree. Whenever I listen to Steely Dan I always find the clarity striking, it takes me by surprise, on any speakers.
Babylon Sisters on Gaucho might be a close second .
Gauchos first 2 tracks are magnificent recordings .
Yes, the word I use is lush--the lushness of the sound. Babylon Sisters is so visually evocative too, as I have driven west on Sunset to the sea and I did NOT turn the Steely Dan music down. "Well I should know by now that it's just a spasm, like a Sunday in TJ..."
@@stevenrussi5973 It's cheap, but it's not free!!!!
This was a terrific interview of Bill Schnee. It reminded me so much of my 10 years I spent working with Allen Sides at Ocean Way (95-05). I worked with most of the Session guys Bill talks about and they were certainly the pinnacle of professional musicianship. The studios including all the gear and the rooms, producers, engineers, assistants, rental, cartage and staff were also on equal par of excellence as the session musicians. Every component of making a record back in those days was at its height of excellence. Thank you, Rick, for highlighting this excellent work in recorded music.
I call myself a music nerd. Music is my primary passion. I was raised drowning in it as a third generation musician. I have a wide range of tastes, play a few instruments (but only guitar well), and geek out on every detail from theory to audio engineering.
A 98 minute interview with a badass engineer chewing the fat on one great album.
THIS is why Rick has the best damned music channel on the planet. At least for me.
The man is the KING of music nerds.
95% of this interview was way over my head. You could tell that Rick was just loving getting into the weeds of recording and sound engineering. It was still great to listen to.
Rick, your interviews are amazing. They are an invaluable documentation of the essence of some of the greatest music recorded. Thank you
Yes they should end up at some Music College in the permanent library
They are conversations as much or more than interviews. Rick knows how to connect and bring out the best in storytelling.
Another video, where I thought I would only listen for a few minutes about the technical side of the music business, but then listened to the whole thing. Good stuff. 👍
AJA !!!!
Still audio file reference for testing systems after all these years.
Plus it’s killer music!
Superb home court interview Rick. If Maestro Schnee is so willing, it would be a real treat to see a part 2 interview recorded in his studio.
I second that emotion!
This is absolutely fascinating. Bill has such a great storytelling skill and sharp memory. RICK! Don’t forget DENNY DIAS! He played on Aja and has an ability to articulate that would add to your opus on the greatest ‘pop’ album ever created!
Denny's electric sitar solo on Do It Again has been blowing my mind since 1972.
@@Ianmackable Since I was a young kid Do it Again has been my fav Steely Dan song and that solo is a big part of it.
Amazing! Got the album for christmas when i was 12, the year it came out. An all time favorite, especially as a drummer. Timeless.
Rick these whole series of interviews have been absolutely wonderful. Bill is a absolutely legend.
Love these interviews with producers & engineers...fascinating.
Mr. Beato, you've made my obsession with that song, Aja, acceptable! Like so many folks I never get tired of that masterpiece, and I am also obsessed with anyone involved in its creation. Thank you!
These series of interviews are the Alan Lomax 21st century version. Thank you Rick for keeping this stuff alive.
Amazing to hear Bill Schnee! Thank you!! Such an amazing influence in modern music.
The interview all engineers and producers have been waiting for! Thank you!
Aja is obviously one of the true greatest albums of all time…but I want to note in particular that Black Cow is a perfect song to my ears and mind.
The sounds, the mood, the lyrics…perfect.
Leo Sayer with drums by Steve Gadd. Wut?. Amazing episode. It was like a Jeopardy episode for microphones
Rick is such a great interviewer, Bill seemed a bit nervous at first but then relaxed as the interview went on.
Like some others in the comment section, I listened to this whole interview, and yet 98% went right over my head. Still... Fascinating and great stories. Thank you, Rick and Bill.
This interview is GOLD, Bill is such an outstanding engineer, there's so much to learn in everything he says. Thank you so much Rick for such a great content!!
This is one of the best interview I've ever heard. Ever. Great documentation of the greatest time in music.
Tremendous interview!! The stories and information that Bill talked about was amazing! Thank you Rick for these in depth interviews with the legends!!
As a musician I have massive respect for the technical genius of those involved in studio sound and live sound recording and performance. Even though I have zero real knowledge of the same, I enjoy listening to those who do! I thoroughly enjoyed listening to Rick and Bill discussing their shared art form which is a fascinating mystery. A mystery I’ve enjoyed since I discovered recorded music in the early 60s!! Thank you gentlemen from the bottom of my heart.
WOW!! Bill is a treasure! I found most interesting his descriptions of all the equipment. The mics, preamps, EQ 's....all of it! Just tremendous. If he hasn't already, Bill should either teach, or further document all this knowledge. Simply indispensable info.
This is such a great interview! I came up in the late 70's and early 80's at Universal Recording in Chicago. A huge room with Celotex on the walls and a vast mic collection. Same technique of start with the mic, use EQ only if you need to and even then scoop out before adding in. +/-6 was the most EQ we'd use back then. So different from today when engineers use EQ like a scalpel. Also I completely agree with the bus compressor on the early SSL's. I could never get it to sound good until the later 9000 series. This is why Bill's mixes (and Al Schmidt's) always had such depth. It was 3 dimensional sound, left right, front to back and low to high completely balanced.
I just finished Al Schmitt’s book. It was very interesting!
I work 3 to 5 days a week with Terry Talbot (Mason Profitt and The Talbot Brothers). He used to be "The 12 String Guitar Session Guy" at Universal in Chicago along with James Vincent (Jazz Electric Guitar). They were the On-Call Guys at Universal (UREI).
And of course I have several UREI Tube Mic Preamps! 🙂
This interview is solid gold. Rick keeps adding to his legacy of excellent interviews and conversations with legends, ultimately elevating himself to that status through association and effort! Bravo!
Rick, Super interview.
I have some background on the Aja recording. Walter and I were high school classmates and bandmates ‘65-‘67. After high school he went to Bard and met Donald, I went to CCNY and then medical school.
In the summer of ‘76 I did a clerkship in SF and flew down to LA several weekends to hang out with Walter at his house in Malibu. One weekend he played the cassette of the basic track for Aja they had just recorded. Said they did it in 3 takes. Needless to say I was blown away. He told me the drum chart for Gadd’s solos was “play your ass off!”
I came back two weeks later. During that time they had created the lyrics and melody and Walter sang it for me while the cassette played the track. A memorable moment to say the least.
Though I didn’t specifically ask, my impression was that Walter wrote them. Donald, please correct me if you see this. I’m also fairly certain that Walter played the lead guitar fills. I still get chills when playing bass with this amazing piece, the very best they did. ❤❤❤
Wow, how great was this, I felt like I could have been right there in the studio in anyone of those sessions. His excitement is still with him as if it was yesterday. Good thing he didn't go into aerospace or become a lawyer. It was meant to be, another good one and take care !!
Thank you Rick for this interview. Bill Schnee is an amazing master Engineer. His drum history alone is gold. If you don't mind an interview recommend, it would be great if you could bring in the Lemon Twigs. They will be in Athens on May 14th. They are bringing back the 60s-70s sound in a fresh way and their new album sounds great. 😃
This is absolutely fantastic! I love this so much. I am a recording engineer who like so many of us is a Steely Dan fanboy and a huge fan of Bill Schnee. Rick, you are doing a great service to honor the giants and innovators of our industry. Thank you sir.
Wow!!! I love how once he started to relax a bit, the incredible stories just rolled on out...
Bill Schnee = Legend
Rick, this is a great interview with Bill. Love all the behind the scenes stories that go along with these sessions. How it all transpired is exciting. Scott's comment on how the drums where setup and the chart tapped to the stands from one side to the other / PRICELESS !!! Thank you.
Thank you Rick. My favorite interviews of yours are with the alchemists that work behind the scenes the glass. Just fascinating. More of these please.🙏
This was a great interview of a gentlemen who was there in what might have beenthe golden age of popular music recording. It has been a long time since I heard anyone reference Doug Sax and Sheffield Labs but as a recovering audiophile I have many of their records. Doug Sax died a while ago and with him the Direct to Disc recordings of Sheffield but I suspect they are still collector's items. Though I will say that with some exceptions (the Thelma Houston album being one of them) their sonic quality often eclipsed the musical quality. Of course the list of great artists and records that Doug mastered is quite impressive. Keep up the work Rick, you are creating source material for a whole generation of music historians.
Great interview with Bill! One day Rick will be able to put together the best ever Steely Dan documentary series.
Great interview. The technical stuff went over my head but the interaction between you two kept me watching. I'm going to put Aja on my listen-to list tomorrow.
This was an ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHINGLY GREAT interview. What an amazing guest! And excellent questions, as usual. Thank you so much for this, Rick. It is truly appreciated. Wow.
This is brilliant. So much in depth information into the ‘Aja’ album.
I love the backstory as well.
Great in-depth interview.
"We're not too sure about Steve Gadd." LOL! Possibly the greatest drum recording performance in history. And this, folks, is why it is an art more than a science.
Totally! Also, he mentioned Jim Gordon had the opposite feel of Keltner 🤔 I would think those two have similar laid-back feels 🤷🏻♂️
Rick, I'm constantly fascinated by your ability to enthrall me with interviews where I barely know what you're talking about. More, please!
Wonderful! Thank you, Rick! I got the book the week it came out and devoured it. So true about great session players being arrangers. The guiding principle in my session career was the story Larry Carlton told of asking Louie Shelton how he came up with parts that were so perfect that it seemed as if the song was written around his part rather than the other way around. Louie said "I think like an arranger, not a guitarist." Boom!
What a great interview. Thank you for letting us mortals peek under the tent of this amazing art form.
Outstanding interview with Bill Schnee (Eng. Steely Dan). This is an exceptional album with equally amazing recording / sound. I am not even a novice in sound recording, just a humble drummer who is fascinated by the art of recording and sound craft Engineering. They don't make them like you and Bill anymore nor do they record the same way. Now it's all over-processed sound. There is no texture or feel to music anymore. Please keep this channel going Rick...great job!
Great stuff! much of the talk was relatable since I was kicking around Wally Heider's studio as an equipment flunky as a teenager ~1974.
Great timing Rick, I just finished the book... Really a great read, thank you Bill and as always thank you Rick.
Really enjoyed the interview especially the story of Beatles coming together for Ringo’s album
Thank you Rick for yet another fantastic interview. Bill Schnee is a gem, his stories about these classic sessions are so engaging and his knowledge invaluable. Bravo gentlemen!
I love the technical aspect of your interviews. Great stories from Bill. Great video.
These interviews mean so much to me. Music is the best. Thank you.
Wow! Blown away with his experience and stories! Great interview, Rick!
Bill's drum sounds on the Pablo Cruise albums he did are just wonderful.
I’m almost 60 and it’s amazing to me that Rick is as obsessed with this album as I am…it was the very first CD I ever bought in 1984 and that Steve Hoffman mastered CD (the very first version released that year in longbox) is still regarded as the best-sounding audiophile version of the album.
Huge fan of his work without actually knowing of him, absolutely brilliant engineer; we appreciate you doing these interviews Rick, these will become a time capsule of sorts, few interviews get into the meat and potatoes of modern music; recording, composition, etc., usually just "Tell us about your latest album and tour" promo fluff, keep 'em coming please, we're here for it.
Absolutely brilliant. Love that "Ringo" LP.
Outstanding! Thank you Bill, thank you Rick! I will never forget the first time I heard the Aja album. It might be my favorite record of all time.
...a wonderfully fascinating interview! As someone, who for a short time in 1978-79, operated as a second engineer in a small studio in the midwest... I can attest that Bill's achievements are astounding.
The song and the album "Aja" has spoken to and warmed me since I heard it the first time as an early teenager in 1978- or 79.
Gad dayum ur old
Nice.
@@cartoonvandal and you're rude
I just had to sit and listen to this with ears wide open.
Amazing episode.
Thank Rick, nice one.
Rick, these interviews with the cast from Aja have been riveting. Thank you for sharing with us.
I for sure went and listened to "You Make Me Feel Like Dancing" immediately after this video ended. You can definitely hear the similarity in sound. What a wild story.
Wonderful gentlemen! Thank you Bill and Rick for sharing!!
LIsten to the pushes at around 3:20 in the released mix and compare to the same pushes in that rough mix (at 57:09 in this video) - you'll find the rough mix has the snare played differently which has a different syncopation/emphasis to final version. So either it's a different take, or those hits were somehow dubbed for the final mix.
I’ve seen a lot of Rick’s interviews. This one is special and unique. I may of commented this once or twice before.
Thank you Rick. This is my favorite interview ever of anything. It was like a great book and I couldn't stop listening.
Bill is great. This man can tell a story like no other. The details are so concise and practical and colorful. Another fabulous guest BEATO❤
Can't keep up with new Rick's interviews. Too many brilliant people at the same time!
this is the better channel in my opinion
Yet another brilliant chat with another legend of the music world. Hats off to you Rick......absolutely brilliant.
Fantastic interview, thank you so much!!
I was starting 6th grade when Aja came out. I remember liking Steely Dan songs before that, but Aja was the first album of theirs I owned.
Thank you for spotlighting the behind the scenes guys like producers, engineers and arrangers. When I bought albums in the 60's and 70's I loved reading the notes to see who these guys were. So many people have no idea how important they were.
"Egg cartons on the wall". I loved listening to this guy, I also read his book.
"Bill Schnee - ever smiling, ever loving..." Ringo says this as he's signing off from "You and Me (Babe)," the last song on his hit Ringo album. My mother always loved that. I'm so happy the man lives up to Ringo's endorsement. Great interview, Mr. Beato.
Love the interview! You are the best to bring these brilliant people to us.
Those Sheffield Labs Records albums mixed by Bill Schnee were amazing! I had a chance to hang out with Doug Sax at The Mastering Lab in the 80s and saw all of the custom gear used to record them.
Outstanding video. I couldn’t stop watching. I feel I’m watching living history.
As always, a fantastic interview. Listening to Bill Schnee as well as many other Rick Beato interviewees takes my memory bank back to times that were pure musical magic. Thank You!!
Thank You so much for this interview. I really, really enjoyed it. Bill is a total delight!
Producers and sound engineers and mixers are so important to the whole process and can really make or break the songs.
The track, Aja, is my favorite piece SD every recorded. It's funny to hear him talk about memories and everybody remembering things differently. I could swear that on the video 'the making of Aja', Fagan and Becker said Aja came together faster than any other track on the record, yet Bill says otherwise. So there's an example of different memories of the event. Great interview, incredibly interesting. Good job, as usual Rick.
OMG what a wonderful interview!!! Thank you Rick and Bill!
I am looking forward to see your interview with Jay Graydon.
Another excellent interview Mr Beato.
Thank you!
What an excellent interview! Most of the lingo went right over my head but I still found the conversation and process fascinating.
30:53 Jim Keltner is also credited as playing drums on Photograph and other tracks on Ringo. Be interested in how that was mixed/divided up and why another drummer.
Bill is such a treasure! I love his stories. I've read his book all through of course.
BILL'S book is amazing!!!
This is fantastic! You can listen to this song anytime and enjoy it. It never gets old. Great interview!
What a great interview. You do something no one else does. Talk with the guys that made it possible for so many artists to sound the best they can. I discovered during the interview that Bill Schnee produced the Thelma Houston record for Sheffield. I was introduced to that record when it was released. My brother sold gear at the Federated Group, which was one of the early HIFI home audio stores. The direct to disc recordings were a big deal. I heard it, and even as a youth, admired the clarity of the record. I will be buying Bill's book. Thank you for another great episode.