Thanks for this Rachael. It’s helps when others voice their opinions on this trend which harms my approach to recovery and as you say makes me feel wrong and invalidated. Maybe more so as I’m older and have attempted various strategies. I always appreciate your videos as few others of a similar age share their experiences which is isolating and difficult. X
I'm so glad my videos help you feel less alone, both in terms of age (fine wines, am I right 😉) and not necessarily jumping into the "it" recovery trend of the moment. All I hope is that we both make it to the other side of this hellish journey, regardless of what that route may look like! Thank you so much for your kind words, as always.
@@rachaelerinrecovers6099 no I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. You have a busy life especially with nursing as well as recovery and few people our age share their opinions, experiences and lives so openly which I would really value seeing more of. I do feel there is a definite difference in experiences, age and duration of illness and seeing the other end of the spectrum from more people would be really helpful however I feel we are more reserved and shy, possibly embarrassed, worried about negatively affecting others so decide to remain quiet which in some ways reinforces the ED and keeps us lonely and feeling lost and confused. Sending my strength and love to you Racheal x
You aren't the only one!!!! Listen to your treatment team they know you best!!!! Just like I listen to mine and not youtubers. Same, I got anorexia in 1984 at the age of 10! Had full recovery in my 30's to relapse in my 40's. Seen it all, all the trends you mentioned and tried them. Bottom line, us and our tx teams know what's best for uS
Nice to meet a fellow 80s baby! 😋👍 And yes, the topic came to my mind in the first place because I was expressing fear to my therapist that I'd never achieve "real" recovery because "all in" doesn't feel accessible to me right now. She was like, "I've known you for more than decade...Listen to me, not a person on social media." 😂😂😂
I feel guilty for not being able to eat the way everyone else does. I can't get beyond one (or some days none) meal a day and I feel worse for not being able to move past it. but I just have not appetite and the thought of food makes me wanna hurl, especially in the morning. any advice
I know that some part of you wants to get better or else you wouldn't be asking me for advice. Unfortunately the process of getting there entails doing the things that make you feel scared and uncomfortable, then sitting with the discomfort rather than acting on it. My advice would be to seek out a therapist and registered dietician if you can, the therapist to help you learn how to cope with really challenging feelings and the RD to help with the more foodie side of things. I wish you all the best!!!
A lot of the research findings by Walter Kaye indicated that there are neurobiological differences in the AN brain even after weight restoration/recovery- meaning that it is not helpful or realistic to suggest this population will be able to eat intuitively- they have a body blindness that needs structure to mitigate.
Thank you for sharing, that's super interesting! I've read about certain "reward" neurons not firing in response to food and challenges with spatial perception for individuals with anorexia. Is that what you're referring to? I'm so curious lol
Rachael Erin Recovers yes in part, but also the cues for hunger are less and decision making is more difficult and there is less reward feedback generally. So the anxiety around food choice is a deterrent and the lack of hunger cues can be insufficient biological motivation. It's super interesting! The levels of serotonin (or receptors) is related to the anxious arousal
Judgment, in my opinion, is one of the most caustic issues every community practices and experiences. Fear of judgment is a powerful tool used to control thought and behavior, in my opinion. We see this in religion, schools, workplaces...you name it. I feel like treatment programs and recovery communities utilize these tactics, some knowingly, others not, but the effect is the same. When we treat physical illness, do patients feel responsible for the treatment not curing their cancer? Most probably blame the tumor, the doctor, not themselves. People diagnosed with anorexia, in my experience, are supremely aware of how treatment providers, teachers, supervisors, friends, and parents feel. This constant tidal wave of the energy of others can feel intolerable. Our anxiety, already high at baseline, goes through the roof. This anxiety, in my opinion, is what helps create the situation where the suffer develops internal ways to ameliorate the anxiety that feels unbearable at times. What is one to do when our favorite tool is taken away? When we face the treatment team, our families and the world stripped bare of ant mechanism to ameliorate said anxiety, life stressors, shame, guilt, depression, etc? We need the behaviors at all costs. I am sorry if this is all over the place. My feeling is that until our underlying issues are treated/in remission, many treatments will have limited success. One of the biggest stumbling blocks for me is the relentles pressure from all sides to control weight gain. ”don't gain too much weight.” being type A, I try to be good at all costs. Utilizing the all-in method seems great. I have hungry for over thirty years. It all hit the fan when I realized that I didn't have the tools or support needed when the weight piled on. It felt unbearable. I wanted to rip the flesh off of my body. Going from controlling everything to feeling so absolutely out of control was terrifying. This is when things got dangerous. The reaction I received from proponents of the ”all in” method were that I am fat phobic. NO sH**!!!!!!!!!!!! Help me untangle that I thought.. I wanted some ”deprogramming” treatment like that provided for ex-cult members. Is ”diet culture” not a widespread cult? Is it not similar in structure to religion? I liken it to prohibition. Thou shalt not ever be fat. Good luck and take care of yourself. I would love to speak with you, should you feel comfortable. Treatment for many mental illnesses won't have real efficacy until individuals have what they need to tolerate the world around us. Many of these treatment modalities have useful aspects, but the all or nothing approach to treatment models is their Achilles heel. Sooooooo sorry for the rant. Thank you for sharing!!!!!! Please take care of yourself. I care.
I apologise for the delay in responding to your comment. It was so thoughtful and wise, I wanted to do my best to respond in as similar a manner as I could. The two points which absolutely stood out to me in particular were fear of judgement and anxiety management. I've heard many times that when it comes to ED's or any sort of addiction that "secrets keep us sick." However, in my experience fear of criticism, negative feedback, or saying a disordered belief/fear that may be perceived as offensive keeps me silent. Interestingly, I find it's not just fear of judgement from others though but also myself. Problem with that is how it grows more powerful and shameful unaddressed in the darkness! Thank you again so much for your comment. Clearly I have no answers 😂😂 but could relate with everything you said!
I tried all in recovery with profesional psicologyst and nutritionist. They would make me stuff my face all day and "trust my body". I would binge all the time and they would encourage it. I wss just left really confused, afraid of food and anxious in a new body wich did not match me. Thank god i found a new program and im doing so much better.
The all in approach is not the first step and can't be the first step in anorexia recovery as the "intuition" does not work very well. That comes much much later, when your hunger ques come back, your body is more atuned with its natural impulses etc. It's unrealistic to expect that people with anorexia will go "all in" from restriction. So fully agree, keep the structure, get to a healthy weight, then follow the structure for a bit more and slowly your body and brain will get to a stage where they work together to come up with a healthy eating habits, not the once fueled by anorexia :)
Indeed. At this point the idea of diving straight away into "all in" feels not entirely unlike telling a baby bird to "just fly." I'm sure some people can do it and would love to be one of them, but beating myself up and wishing doesn't change anything! Thanks for the validation and words of wisdom. Wishing you ALL the best 😽👍
I personally feel hunger but I just am not in a place where I can trust myself to honor it without imposing restrictions. Plus I don’t feel like it’s consistent. If I was capable of eating whatever I want, whenever I want I wouldn’t have an Ed. That’s just me though. If this works for someone they should totally do it.
True that!! Ultimately I suspect it comes down to self awareness and self honesty, then an ability to take actions accordingly. All I know is that when I tried to "listen to my hunger" it was a fail in the most awfully hilarious way. 😂😬
Thank you Rachel, for saying the words we all need to hear! I hope you will keep us posted on how your nursing career is going. Congratulations!!!
Thank you, both for your comment and also encouragement! 😽
Thanks for this Rachael.
It’s helps when others voice their opinions on this trend which harms my approach to recovery and as you say makes me feel wrong and invalidated. Maybe more so as I’m older and have attempted various strategies.
I always appreciate your videos as few others of a similar age share their experiences which is isolating and difficult. X
I'm so glad my videos help you feel less alone, both in terms of age (fine wines, am I right 😉) and not necessarily jumping into the "it" recovery trend of the moment. All I hope is that we both make it to the other side of this hellish journey, regardless of what that route may look like! Thank you so much for your kind words, as always.
@@rachaelerinrecovers6099 no I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. You have a busy life especially with nursing as well as recovery and few people our age share their opinions, experiences and lives so openly which I would really value seeing more of. I do feel there is a definite difference in experiences, age and duration of illness and seeing the other end of the spectrum from more people would be really helpful however I feel we are more reserved and shy, possibly embarrassed, worried about negatively affecting others so decide to remain quiet which in some ways reinforces the ED and keeps us lonely and feeling lost and confused.
Sending my strength and love to you Racheal x
You aren't the only one!!!! Listen to your treatment team they know you best!!!! Just like I listen to mine and not youtubers. Same, I got anorexia in 1984 at the age of 10! Had full recovery in my 30's to relapse in my 40's. Seen it all, all the trends you mentioned and tried them. Bottom line, us and our tx teams know what's best for uS
Nice to meet a fellow 80s baby! 😋👍 And yes, the topic came to my mind in the first place because I was expressing fear to my therapist that I'd never achieve "real" recovery because "all in" doesn't feel accessible to me right now. She was like, "I've known you for more than decade...Listen to me, not a person on social media." 😂😂😂
I feel guilty for not being able to eat the way everyone else does. I can't get beyond one (or some days none) meal a day and I feel worse for not being able to move past it. but I just have not appetite and the thought of food makes me wanna hurl, especially in the morning. any advice
I know that some part of you wants to get better or else you wouldn't be asking me for advice. Unfortunately the process of getting there entails doing the things that make you feel scared and uncomfortable, then sitting with the discomfort rather than acting on it. My advice would be to seek out a therapist and registered dietician if you can, the therapist to help you learn how to cope with really challenging feelings and the RD to help with the more foodie side of things. I wish you all the best!!!
A lot of the research findings by Walter Kaye indicated that there are neurobiological differences in the AN brain even after weight restoration/recovery- meaning that it is not helpful or realistic to suggest this population will be able to eat intuitively- they have a body blindness that needs structure to mitigate.
Thank you for sharing, that's super interesting! I've read about certain "reward" neurons not firing in response to food and challenges with spatial perception for individuals with anorexia. Is that what you're referring to? I'm so curious lol
Rachael Erin Recovers yes in part, but also the cues for hunger are less and decision making is more difficult and there is less reward feedback generally. So the anxiety around food choice is a deterrent and the lack of hunger cues can be insufficient biological motivation. It's super interesting! The levels of serotonin (or receptors) is related to the anxious arousal
I love needing out about this kinda stuff... Just wish it didn't pertain to myself!
as someone who has a stomach ache 23 hours of the day, you are 100% on the money
That one pain free hour though is PURE BLISS.
Judgment, in my opinion, is one of the most caustic issues every community practices and experiences. Fear of judgment is a powerful tool used to control thought and behavior, in my opinion. We see this in religion, schools, workplaces...you name it. I feel like treatment programs and recovery communities utilize these tactics, some knowingly, others not, but the effect is the same. When we treat physical illness, do patients feel responsible for the treatment not curing their cancer? Most probably blame the tumor, the doctor, not themselves. People diagnosed with anorexia, in my experience, are supremely aware of how treatment providers, teachers, supervisors, friends, and parents feel. This constant tidal wave of the energy of others can feel intolerable. Our anxiety, already high at baseline, goes through the roof. This anxiety, in my opinion, is what helps create the situation where the suffer develops internal ways to ameliorate the anxiety that feels unbearable at times. What is one to do when our favorite tool is taken away? When we face the treatment team, our families and the world stripped bare of ant mechanism to ameliorate said anxiety, life stressors, shame, guilt, depression, etc? We need the behaviors at all costs. I am sorry if this is all over the place.
My feeling is that until our underlying issues are treated/in remission, many treatments will have limited success. One of the biggest stumbling blocks for me is the relentles pressure from all sides to control weight gain. ”don't gain too much weight.” being type A, I try to be good at all costs. Utilizing the all-in method seems great. I have hungry for over thirty years. It all hit the fan when I realized that I didn't have the tools or support needed when the weight piled on. It felt unbearable. I wanted to rip the flesh off of my body. Going from controlling everything to feeling so absolutely out of control was terrifying. This is when things got dangerous. The reaction I received from proponents of the ”all in” method were that I am fat phobic. NO sH**!!!!!!!!!!!! Help me untangle that I thought.. I wanted some ”deprogramming” treatment like that provided for ex-cult members. Is ”diet culture” not a widespread cult? Is it not similar in structure to religion? I liken it to prohibition. Thou shalt not ever be fat.
Good luck and take care of yourself. I would love to speak with you, should you feel comfortable. Treatment for many mental illnesses won't have real efficacy until individuals have what they need to tolerate the world around us. Many of these treatment modalities have useful aspects, but the all or nothing approach to treatment models is their Achilles heel. Sooooooo sorry for the rant.
Thank you for sharing!!!!!! Please take care of yourself. I care.
I apologise for the delay in responding to your comment. It was so thoughtful and wise, I wanted to do my best to respond in as similar a manner as I could. The two points which absolutely stood out to me in particular were fear of judgement and anxiety management. I've heard many times that when it comes to ED's or any sort of addiction that "secrets keep us sick." However, in my experience fear of criticism, negative feedback, or saying a disordered belief/fear that may be perceived as offensive keeps me silent. Interestingly, I find it's not just fear of judgement from others though but also myself. Problem with that is how it grows more powerful and shameful unaddressed in the darkness! Thank you again so much for your comment. Clearly I have no answers 😂😂 but could relate with everything you said!
I tried all in recovery with profesional psicologyst and nutritionist. They would make me stuff my face all day and "trust my body". I would binge all the time and they would encourage it. I wss just left really confused, afraid of food and anxious in a new body wich did not match me. Thank god i found a new program and im doing so much better.
Sounds like a really scary and confusing experience to go through. I'm so glad you found a program that's been more helpful!!
The all in approach is not the first step and can't be the first step in anorexia recovery as the "intuition" does not work very well. That comes much much later, when your hunger ques come back, your body is more atuned with its natural impulses etc. It's unrealistic to expect that people with anorexia will go "all in" from restriction. So fully agree, keep the structure, get to a healthy weight, then follow the structure for a bit more and slowly your body and brain will get to a stage where they work together to come up with a healthy eating habits, not the once fueled by anorexia :)
Indeed. At this point the idea of diving straight away into "all in" feels not entirely unlike telling a baby bird to "just fly." I'm sure some people can do it and would love to be one of them, but beating myself up and wishing doesn't change anything! Thanks for the validation and words of wisdom. Wishing you ALL the best 😽👍
I personally feel hunger but I just am not in a place where I can trust myself to honor it without imposing restrictions. Plus I don’t feel like it’s consistent. If I was capable of eating whatever I want, whenever I want I wouldn’t have an Ed. That’s just me though. If this works for someone they should totally do it.
True that!! Ultimately I suspect it comes down to self awareness and self honesty, then an ability to take actions accordingly. All I know is that when I tried to "listen to my hunger" it was a fail in the most awfully hilarious way. 😂😬
All In Sh-mall In, just a catchy phrase to get the cliques rooted in the "community."
Wasn't privy to any cliques in high school, no reason for that to change now 🐨🧡