This reminds me of the time during Palm Sunday when a boy looked at me wide eyed and gestured to his mom saying "look mom, theres a muslim here" to which she shushed him. But it reminded me of how Christians used to be known for their modesty, and hijabs were based on the head coverings worn by Christian women, I have had other Catholics ask me to remove my head coverings because it could make people feel unwelcome, but the only person I do it for is Christ. I hope more Christian women adopt veiling in the future, even outside of church, as its so beautiful and sacred
I agree. I've taken to head covering outside mass as it just seems, not only biblical, but what women have done for the last 2 centuries. Hilarious story about being mistaken for a Muslim at mass! 😂
As long as you are humble hearted and modest in everything else it's fine With so many modern women it seems to be a " look at me I'm so modest and better than you" statement.
@@hannahdavia8791 Biblical? Like polygamy and squatting over a bucket for a week during ones period? Honestly I wish some of you would just go ahead and convert to Islam.
@@PB_324 I agree! I think modesty is a journey, i previously didnt dress particularly reverent at mass because I didn't even understand the True Presence. But I learned that modesty isnt just about clothing, but an inward disposition of humility, and its something i do my best to cultivate, but everyone starts somewhere :)
@@PB_324if you are not modest in your clothing, how can you be modest in other ways. Modesty in clothing is the easiest thing to do. What you are essentially telling people who choose to dress modestly is that you are better than them because you are modest “on the inside” with the implication that they are modest only in dress. Modesty in dress is a sign of respect, for others and for yourself.
I recall very clearly that the first time I attended Mass where women were not wearing veil was in June of 1968. I was eight years old, and I was delighted not to have to wear a pesky veil anymore. Forty years later, I joined a traditional Latin Mass community and I am happy and privileged to wear a veil again. It is an honor and sign of respect to God to wear a veil at Mass, and I deeply regret my childish dislike of this tradition all those years ago.
what do men do to show at church to show the same respect that women are suppose take a knee to, Just show up? marginalize women again,and Among the harshest of these texts is 1 Timothy 2. The author is discussing worship and begins by stating that "men should pray" and then says "women should dress themselves modestly and decently." So men are to pray and women are to dress modestly. That's quite a contrast. But there's more: "Let a woman learn in silence and full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to be silent." The author's rationale: "For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor" (1 Timothy 2:8-14). So, according to this text, women were to be silent in worship because they were created second and sinned first. And the final blow is this: a woman "will be saved through childbirth, if she remains in faith and love and sanctification with modesty" (1 Timothy 2:15). This text is not too different from a Saying in the Gospel of Thomas (114) that says women can be saved once they become males. In any case, for the author of 1 Timothy, eternal salvation comes obstetrically?
I go to a smaller parish with a lot of large, young families. So many of the young girls and moms wear a veil. It's pretty widespread where I am. They look so lovely. It reminds me of Mass when I was a little girl.
@@pattysayssew3609 my parish is the same way. Funny but once the little girls do their first communion they keep wearing their communion veil and inevitably their mom joins if they hadn’t been wearing it.
I also heard a Catholic you tuber say a few years ago, that Catholics should be recognised as always being well dressed and put together. Our bodies are temples for the Holy Spirit after all.
Brian, I did fight back on this topic with you in the past. I have since changed my stance. Dressing nice doesn't mean spending money or showing off. I had a priest from Bangladesh who told us how his family was very poor. He did however have one white dress shirt. It was his duty to have it washed and ironed for Sunday Mass even when he was a young child. He wore the shirt every Sunday without exception. Since his story I wear a suit or blazer.
I just visited Lithuania about a month ago. The modesty of the women compared to America was notable. Much more emphasis on elegance and beauty than displaying the body as if in a meat market. Visiting there highlighted a lot of culutral problems and excesses of my country, modesty being a big one. Thank you so much for this video. You have a beautiful and inspiring way of communicating.
I have worn a head covering since i converted in 1980. From my perspective, canon law removed the obligation to wear a head covering leaving us free to do it out of love and reverence for Our Lord.
The more Catholic I become the more modest I get. I was fairly ok with pants in the church but I have really stopped wearing jeans in favor of long skirts or palazzo pants that look like skirts. And this all started when I read St Padre Pio’s biography and was convicted to wear the veil. My church is full of modest people so now I find myself praying for people dressed in modestly. It’s not that I don’t wear jeans it’s that I respect the church space so much that I don’t want to cause “scandal” or someone else to sin because of me.
As a guy thank you so very much. It's not easy to keep custody of the eyes and mind in our modern culture that's full of immodesty. I also try to be modest in my dress as a man as much as possible.
Same here! I read about St. Padre Pio and suddenly was very awake at how immodest my skinny jeans at church were. Now I wear dresses (that cover my knees and shoulders) everyday.
@@rushthezeppelin it’s not only men like you but the priest. Priest are men too and they have to remain chaste. It’s a terrible thing that women are immodest in front of them.
@@Fiona2254 even though it's rare in our TLM parish our pastor does have a yearly reminder when summer starts that the priests and the altar servers are standing above us at the altar rail and subtly hints that women shouldn't have low cut necks at mass.
A very interesting piece. I grew up wearing a tie and jacket to church. Women wpre dresses. We did the same at work. I was preaching in Scotland in the 80s. In 86, i planted a new congregation in a town called Forres. In my main church in Buckie i dressed up and we had traditional music. In the church in Forres it was casual and "modern". It's been modern everywhere since. I remember the women in the old church all decided to wear trousers on the same Sunday. I'm older now. I still wear sloppy clothes to church. Everyone does. I feel like we no longer worship to honor God. I want to give him my best. I no longer even own my best! You really addressed a topic im currently wrestling with. Thanks, Brian.
@@samburton2978 Some of us used to go from Glasgow years ago. We were very connected. My father was brought up in Inverness. Now I live in the USA (Missouri). Glad you like Brian's channel. God bless.
I don't see it as controversial. That is just not something the average family can afford, especially when kids grow through clothes so fast. We have to settle on whatever style button-up we can find at the thrift store.
Thank you for addressing this topic. I drifted away from my Catholic upbringing for a time and explored the world of Evangelical Protestantism. There were a host of reasons for this such as the desire to form relationships with people my age (the parish where I grew up was now mostly elderly. I also admired evangelicals zeal for the gospel. Aside from my missing the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, I would say one of the biggest things that brought me back to my Catholic roots was the very casual attitude present in many evangelical churches. People would walk into church dressed very casually often carrying a cup of coffee into worship services. Although I’m thankful to be back in the Catholic Church, I’ve realized, as you pointed out, that this is pervasive in society as a whole. I live in Florida, and as you know it can get pretty steaming hot here in the summer. Some church attendees therefore show up in shorts and a T-shirt or even a tank top. They are usually the fastest ones to get out of church at the end of Mass. We Americans (and Canadians, I suppose) have placed personal comfort above everything else. I am guilty of this myself. One of your other videos convicted me about my own attire at Mass and what that communicates. If we truly believe that Christ is truly and uniquely present to us in the Eucharist shouldn’t we honor him in every way we can including our attire? If we were invited to dine with an important government official or celebrity, wouldn’t we want to present ourselves in our finest clothes even if they weren’t our most comfortable?
Thanks for your logical assessments of illogical statements. That it has to be said is sad. I have been covering my head at Mass since I returned to the Church 7 years ago after leaving it for 40 years. I do it because St. Paul said to. I am the only one for all these years. One day I was wearing a triangle scarf tied at the back of my neck and a long flowing button-down over-shirt for cleaning the chapel and a cute thing happened. In the parking lot, I passed a young boy being carried by his parents to pre-school. When he saw me, he said, “A princess!” It took a while before I realized he was talking about me since I am in my 60’s but there was nobody else in the parking lot at the time. Cover your head and become a princess!
Brian, I found your channel from a modesty video you made a few years ago and it really helped guide me in modesty. This video is once again a hit! I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here. I think the lay women in the church need to hear more about modesty. But not only in dress, but modesty in speech and comportment. Also, Men need to be more aware of what they choose to wear to Mass. Too many times I have attended church only to find men wearing t-shirts with inappropriate images to Mass. You did it beautifully in this video.
Forgive me for posting this again: Even the man at the Wedding of the King was kicked out after having not the Wedding garment. He was able to get in, but didn't change and had no response why he hadn't. Yea, the garment refers to the soul being covered by the Righteousness required to enter Paradise, the Courts of the King. And yet, the foreshadowing of those Courts is in the Sanctuary at Liturgy Most Divine. . .where Heaven and Earth meet through those Doors and Rails Most Holy. We approach those Doors, those Rails, and we are beckoned in. Should we a bit wash our face, anoint our head, put on the garment for our soul and our body? Should not we dress, not simply to impress, but to present ourselves in humility with decorum most fitting?
I fully agree that we should be dressing modestly and appropriately for Mass, but I guess I take exception to the word “hyperbolic”. Just because society is at one extreme doesn’t mean that we should go too far the other way. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I have five daughters and, though they’re still young, it’s already a challenge to dress them appropriately. I wish I didn’t have to spend so much time thinking about it. I want them to grow up respecting themselves and others, but I also don’t want to give them the false idea that there is anything bad or shameful about their bodies. I also know families who dressed with “hyperbolic modesty”, only to have their daughters rebel and dress immodestly as soon as they could. I really respect what you’re saying, but it is possible for the pendulum to swing too far the other way.
You re right , usally extremes tend to meet closer than the think they are. And usually extremes tend to cause the very extreme they try to fight against.
Good point. I think it then must be taught internally or to be integrated internally and that you discuss appropriate ways to rebel before any innappropriate rebelion occurs. My father told us long before we became teenagers that we would "hate" or strongly dislike him one day which was unimaginable at the time. He prepared us psychologically for the time of rebellion. I continued to be a strong Catholic during my university years because my Bible school warned me that many youth lose their faith when they go to university. Knowing universities are anti-catholic ahead of time was sufficient preparation and warning.
I have 3 daughters. I dress them modestly. I also teach them Theology of the Body. I got some child appropriate TOB books at a homeschool conference. They’ve naturally embraced modest dress on their own. When people have gifted them clothing that is immodest, they give it to me to donate to Goodwill because they don’t want to wear it. It is possible for children to learn and accept modesty. Especially if they love Our Lord and His Mother.
Yes, I actually misread the title of this video as “hyperbolic modesty is NOT the antidote for our time” ☺️ because it has become a tiktok trend and helps people judge each other, which is not good. Modesty, for me, comes from within, it is something we know inside if it is right or wrong. It is not a contest. And there are many contexts. I recently moved to a very rural area, and paradoxically, here, “modest” dresses I would wear in my original urban area, would bring too much attention. So I dress more casually. I also remember being in Italy when aí was teenager, and I was wearing a LONG skirt, it even almost covered my shoes, and a blue top that was up to my neck, literally but my arms were uncovered, it had no sleeves. I wanted to enter St. Anthony of Lisbon, also known there as St. Anthony of Padua there, because it is a Saint I hold close to my heart, but they didn’t let me enter the church dressed like that. I had a cultural shock back then. Now I can understand better, but as a teenager I was angry and saddened. It was the latest hottest Summer in Europe, that one, and temperatures were up to 43/44 Celsius in the shade.
I decided to veil, I came home two years ago, and at first I did not veil but but I find the practice so beautiful and reverent that anything I can do to bring reverence to Our Lord, I will do! If someone feels offended by it, they have the problem, I do it for Christ!
Question is why do they have a problem with it ? It does not effect them directly, I think it may be because they are uncomfortable with reverence and tradition, and see it as a threat, it may also show that by comparison they are not as reverent as they should be.
There's also a difference of a worker just getting off of work and going to mass, or a curious homeless person going to mass vs a lazy person who doesn't wanna dress up for mass even though they have plenty of time or a person. Use common sense people.
I have been consciously dressing ultra feminine with flowing dresses and skirts and pretty hairstyles for several years now as I have always enjoyed being counter-cultural.
I'm doing this also. I go to thrift shops and find the most beautiful and feminine dresses. I wear a dress to Mass, but have now begun wearing them for daily outings to the grocery store. A young lady dressed in exercise clothes said, "you look so pretty". I'm an older woman and feel like I need to do my part to display feminity and womanhood in a world of androgeny.
Head coverings were common in most human cultures and in churches both Catholic and Protestant until the 20th century when feminism infiltrated Christian spaces.
You've got to give it to them in regards to branding. Quite like "reproductive health" (you know what that really means), "feminism" is the exact opposite of what the name would suggest, and we just adopt these terms as if they weren't absurd. "Feminism" is masculinism, it's a rejection of all that is feminine and its replacement with what is masculine. Women behaving, dressing, and doing as men, is "feminism".
@@oldmovieman7550 True. I get your point. In the west, hats were common for both men and women into the 1940’s, but girls & teens often didn’t wear them. Quite common in church too.
Brian totally agree with you. I now wear a veil and a dress to my NO Mass. just my part to address the irreverence in dress and attitude in both men and women.
1:46 The casual attire at church might not be because of the removal of veils. I’m 60 and was raised Baptist. We had no tradition of veiling, but it was the norm for men to wear suits and women to wear dresses. Occasionally a woman would wear dress slacks, but it was not common until the 90’s. I became Catholic in 2000, and was surprised by the mix of dress I saw in Catholic parishes - everything from dress clothes to jeans. Meanwhile, in Protestantism, the more casual, worship band style of liturgy was spreading from mega churches outward. Even more traditional denoms like Lutheran and CRC were ditching their hymnals for worship choruses on drop-down screens. Casual attire was almost inevitable. One of the things that lead me to Catholicism was a sense of reverence, holiness, and awe in the Presence of Almighty God, and that was evident at a pretty low-church Life Teen mass! I’m not convinced veils are necessary or ditching them was what started the trend toward casual attire. I think something deeper was/is going on and permission to unveil was used as an excuse to follow personal whims, like so much else about Vat2. I mean, surely telling women they don’t have to veil can’t explain men wearing shorts and flip flops to meet Our Lord face to face. The problem may be that many don’t believe they ARE meeting Him or, worse yet, they know but think it’s no big deal.
I am a Protestant (raised Baptist) but researching other denominations (reformed, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy). I appreciate your videos. This is a hard topic for me because I briefly went to a church a couple of years ago that was kind of a cult and they forced very restrictive modesty on women there, and it was the farthest I have ever felt from God. But I appreciate hearing your perspective. God bless ✝
I was a prot too. I earned my undergrad degrees in Bible and Music. During my studies, I had to confront the disparity of 500 year old protestantism to historical Christianity. Music history is Christian history. Christian history is Catholicism. She is the bride of Christ. Catholicism is the Church Jesus Christ founded and maintains. She has the Eucharist, which is the source and summit of the Christian faith. Read the Catechism of the Council of Trent. The new Catechism is laid out well, but some information can be confusing and misunderstood. Listen and read the Bible in a Year with Father Mike Schimtz and Jeff Cavins. It was the #1 podcast of all time for awhile. Be prepared to lose your family, friends and even your job when you become Catholic. Christ is worth more than any loss.
@kylie Really interesting point! I am the only woman who veils at my parish and I almost always wear a dress, but that did come after years of self-reflection rather than instruction and "must do" regulations. I suppose asking the question as to our intention with something is important. Forced restriction without profound understanding isn't the same thing as faith.
I confess I don’t really understand veiling at mass. I’m long past having any particular beauty to veil, so no guys will be distracted by seeing me. Since only a few veil at my church, they are more noticeable than those who don’t. The lacy kind don’t really cover the hair anyway, though I get that it’s symbolic like a yarmulke. I’ve heard stories of women putting Kleenexes on their heads in a pinch in the old days. Speaking of yarmulkes, why don’t traditional Catholic men wear them? Veiling hasn’t been part of our cultural way of dress for a very long time. The Church doesn’t require it, and a woman can be modest without a veil. I’m not opposed to it, just somewhat puzzled by it & not convinced by the arguments I’ve heard so far.
@@sandraelder1101 for me it's not about distracting men. I confess that I don't have the perfect philosophy on it, but it struck me that Mary wore one and she wore one every time she was appearing to people throughout the centuries. She always appeared like them, with her skin color and dress matching them, yet she was always veiled whether or not they were veiled.
I'm Protestant, but I and many of the ladies at church have begun to headcover again over the last few years. I really enjoy looking out over the congregation and seeing the many modest and graceful women. It was strange to me to headcover after having grown up in the church my whole life, but now in getting dressed for church I feel like it makes me consider and prepare my heart more before walking in the door.
Thank you for your incredibly well thought out videos, Brian. I was confirmed in the faith this past Easter and enjoy your invitations to contemplate different aspects of the faith.
@@flavorgodThey are shown mercy and are therfore allowed to attend mass. But they have their poorness as a excuse, it is an exception, as said in the video. Never judge someone by the looks tho, but we shall show our greatest respect infront of Jesus!
Even the man at the Wedding of the King was kicked out after having not the Wedding garment. He was able to get in, but didn't change and had no response why he hadn't. Yea, the garment refers to the soul being covered by the Righteousness required to enter Paradise, the Courts of the King. And yet, the foreshadowing of those Courts is in the Sanctuary at Liturgy Most Divine. . .where Heaven and Earth meet through those Doors and Rails Most Holy. We approach those Doors, those Rails, and we are beckoned in. Should we a bit wash our face, anoint our head, put on the garment for our soul and our body? Should not we dress, not simply to impress, but to present ourselves in humility with decorum most fitting?
One aspect of Christianity is to live a disciplined life. “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. --1 Corinthians 10:23
I don't know about America but many churches in Europe do not allow entry in short shorts and tank tops. I've also encountered a situation on vacation where people were denied communion on the basis of their pants not being long enough (just regular shorts, not short shorts), and one girl wearing an "inappropriate" dress denied as well (neither me or my parents saw anything inappropriate about it - she didn't stand out from the rest of the crowd). Which we all found pretty dumb. Even a family we know who is more pious than us (pretty active in the home parish outside of just attending mass, Catholic school, etc) decided to go to another church much further away because they found it unreasonable. This, btw, was in the middle of summer, and there was only one mass per sunday - at noon.
I'm not Christian, but I don't need to be to share the value of modesty. I only speak of every day modesty as there is no equivalent to the Catholic religious practices like mass in my religion, with that in mind I don't think women need to wear veils in everyday life (which I know you weren't much suggesting), but I do think clothing needs to be much less revealing for both men and women.
I agree. I noticed that when I started dressing more modestly, men were so much more courteous to me. Often, women dress immodest to get attention. We’re now in a society where dressing modestly attracts attention.
Thank you brother for sharing this. Regarding clothing I did have a hard time on how to view modesty in clothing, because of the words of our Lord Jesus not to worry about clothing and Him welcoming all. modest clothes are part of our convertion. Praise the Lord!
As a full time veiling christian woman in my 20s who wants to uphold the tradition and commands in the NT I'm so happy that more women choose to do it. Praise God for guiding us through the Holy Spirit 🙌🏾❤️🔥
At the last Novus Ordo Mass parish at which I was a parishioner (which is literally a 3-minute drive from my home), I was one of the few men that wore jacket, tie and slacks to Mass… and more than a few parishioners freaked out over my attire. I was also the only parishioner receiving Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling. I was almost a pariah. I wore it as a badge of honor.
Thank you! The casual nakedness I see is such a distraction. I was visiting a mosque on vacation and was in vacation attire. There was a woman at the door that handed out light cotton "sheets" to cover arms and legs before entering. I always appreciated this gesture and thought, why don't we offer shawls at the door, at minimum. Soon enough people would stop wearing tube tops, t-straps, low cut, etc.
When I reverted, I had nothing to wear to Holy Mass, just sportswear. I got some skirts/dresses and then the LGBTQ trans onslaught began, including mandated workplace training (I live in a deep blue state). In protest, I began to wear long skirts exclusively even to my male-dominated workplace (aviation maintenance) - and I noticed men have a nicer response to a woman in a skirt. What I see in the secular world is a range of the sloppy, androgenous butch look and/or the hyper sexualized look (tight revealing clothing, bare midriff, too short Daisy Dukes, cleavage, bra tops with bicycle shorts, false eyelashes, long fake painted nails, heavy makeup, duck lips, cookie cutter eyebrows, high heels, spandex mini skirts), sometimes a blend of both and in between those extremes both men and women wearing jeans or shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops. Elegance is nowhere to be seen.
I often hear claims of immodesty being rooted in “practicality”, it is useful to note skin cancer is incredibly prevalent and largely preventable. Dermatologists say mechanical protection ( clothing) is bar none far more effective than anything else. The deadliest animal on earth is a mosquitos, which are once again most effectively repelled by long loose clothing. As someone who has abided by religious modesty for over a decade at this point, all through my adolescent years I can firmly say a significant amount of insecurities, preoccupations and obsessions that are prevalent among young women are largely avoidable by modesty. I am incredibly grateful to have been exposed to good arguments for modesty early in life, as I benefited enormously from it.
Within the Current Zeitgeist post-modernism. Maybe Vatican II was less about what was written and more about what people think was written. And then they project that view on their daily practices.
I’d love to wear a veil to show respect. I think it’s so beautiful but I’m afraid bc I’ve heard people talk about how much they don’t like it. I don’t want to draw attention to myself so I started wearing hats. I started wearing pretty, modest dresses at home and about town and now it’s just second nature. I’m thinking of wearing the veil to adoration… maybe -it’s a good place to start. I wish people would have more respect for sacred places and for each other.
Just read the other comments. Boy, haters are gonna hate aren’t they!!! We should set ourselves apart in dress and behavior. Go to any Baptist service and you’ll see the entire congregation decked out in their finest, and these aren’t rich people!!!
I didn't force my daughter to wear a veil. She was very young when I started wearing one and wanted to be like Mom, so it was natural for her. I have gone without my veil at mass a few times when she forgot hers, just so she would feel more comfortable. I also found that wearing the veil made me want to be more modest in other ways. I never used to have a problem with baring my shoulders or legs at church before, but now I make an effort to avoid those fashion choices for myself at mass. I will never forget being at mass at St. Patrick's in Ottawa and seeing everyone use the communion rail, and seeing women wearing veils. I never grew up wearing a veil or kneeling for communion, I didn't even know that this was a catholic thing, we were never taught about it even though I went to catholic schools (yeah, Canada🙄) . I felt a call to do both several years ago, and it was very uncomfortable in the beginning. I received a lot of sideways looks at church. Now it is not that common, but enough ladies are wearing veils in our church that it is no longer "weird". Also, enough of us starting kneeling on the ground that they brought back the kneelers for communion. Again, the majority of the congregation doesn't use it, but enough of us do. I am happy that these practices are optional and not mandatory, because the willing return to these traditions shows a genuine love and respect for the mass and for the Eucharist.
The purity and holiness of one’s heart is reflected in one’s modesty and decency in dressing. One’s internal disposition is reflected by one’s external appearance.
As someone going into RCIA ive been attending mass all summer with my fiancée and one thing ive noticed is we've become more more modest and well dressed on sundays than when we went to our Lutheran church.
i hadn't gone to mass in so long, since i was a kid. i went for a baptism and was shocked by how people were dressed. tight dresses and low tops, i wasn't raised like that.
i think its correct that itshould be a choice and its tragic that these women see this as some form of oppression rather than veiled women trying to be reverent during the sacrifice of the Mass
@@sandraelder1101 i mean ultimately it doesn't matter what people think... unless you are some sort of authority that has public sway however what does matter is answering to the Lord.
Conflicted myself. I don't think women should be forced to wear veils or other layered head coverings, nor do I believe men should be forced to dress in their finest 3 piece suits to attend a worship service. If only because its 115F here in the summers, you're going to cause health issues wearing too much. I dress fairly casual myself, jeans & henley style shirt. However, in my own church, I have seen some women dress in clothing that definitely leans onto the risque side. Form fitting dresses, I wouldn't call them 304-ish or clubwear, but perhaps too much for church. What I'm trying to say is that there's a lot of room between a Niqāb and and LBD. Disclaimer, I'm not a Roman Catholic.
There are actually a lot of young women who would love to wear veils at church. I see this conversation all the time online. If you go to mass other than Latin mass, it's very nerve-racking as you're the only one wearing it. I would love to wear one, too, but as someone who goes to mass alone, I'm already a bit anxious. I'm getting used to going alone now, but if I wear a veil, I'd feel so subconscious.
I see it this way. If a person was to meet a president or a king or a favorite actor, celebrity, they would spend days of preparations. Go do the hairdresser, buy new dress and so on. But when it comes to go meet with God, some everyday pants are ok. I want to look my best when I go meet Lord of the whole universe who created everything and gave me life. This also help to strength the faith. Our outside reflects our inside. Also if for a woman is such a bother to cover her head for 2 hours, why is it such a terrible sacrafice?
While I understand where you are getting at, wouldn't that time better be spend preparing our hearts rather than our appearance? We should dress respectfully, but personally I've realized all the time I spend picking my outfit and doing my hair for church could be my vanity too and a distraction from my prayers.
@@dansedevie123 I think our hearts reflects our apperance. But also apperance can help shape up our hearts. If someone is distracted while praying I think it doesn't matter if this person goes dressed in suit or sweatshirt. However dressing properly to the occassion meeting with God, will help improving the faith more than in sweatshirt. I think we have enough time to prepare our hearts and dress properly. Maybe wake up earlier if needed or sacrafice coffie time. Intention is important, to dress respectfully for God and not to show off to people. Final thought, you might be a distraction for others if you dress disrespectfuly, that is also something to take into consideration :)
Modesty is the virtue that nourishes the other virtues - it firstly protects your heart therefore allowing freedom for the other virtues. This is what I think. Thank you Jesus ❤
I am an Episcopal who is in OCIA. I cover my head in church. At the Episcopal Church I am the only one. The older ladies sometimes comment because it reminds them of the "old days" or when there Catholic friends used to wear mantillas. When I go to Mass there is usually five of us in head covers out of a hundred. But no one ever comments on it. I am in my 30's. The biggest shock though was last Sunday when a visiting Priest was wearing crocks while preparing the Eucharist. I have feelings about this.
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I'm a 24-year-old Protestant female, and I agree with you. Other women _actually ask_ why I wear modest, long dresses -- and I'm not even wearing head a head covering! But just the fact that I dress in a very modest, sensible, unadorned, comfortable manner draws looks and questions. I actually (chuckle) take pleasure in wearing sensible, "old-fashioned" clothes, because other women ask questions, and I get to tell them how it's _much_ more comfortable to keep my body covered, and to not wear lots of jewelry or makeup. It's _freeing._ As a young woman, I'll freely admit that I struggle with vanity about my form and my appearance sometimes. But when my body is covered and I _know_ others can't see enough to judge, I don't even think about it! I wish that for all young women my age in this sex-saturated world.
One of the most impactful things for me was as a little kid seeing a man come in with a suite on. I was so impressed that he put in the effort. He seemed so cool to me because he knew how to pray and was a man and I was only a boy. How someone could wear short shorts to a church is so heart breaking. The truth is girls and guys too know they're dressing immodestly in their hearts but buy and wear those clothes anyways. They covet the evil within their hearts and then run their mouths when confronted with the truth they shun. We know what is bad and good for us.
I remember coming out of my car in my work parking lot and having a rosary in hand and having a discussion with a muslim woman about the rosary and a similar to rosary like object hanging from her car!s rear view mirror. Let's wear our symbols so we can have discussions with people. I would not have had the discussion I had without the rosary in hand.
I noticed that too when I went to Vatican City in 2022, I was shocked by how immodest alot of the attire people were wearing. Italy has been westernized for quite some time though
Just curious. How is wearing a dress and a veil cosplay? Dresses can be any length these days. Do you have a problem with maxi dresses? Why is a triangle of lace a problem? Should women not wear bonnnets, many black women do. How about a bandana? Cowboy hats? Unless you have a horse better not. Mini skirts are so 60's. Women, ya better stop cosplaying that it's the sixties. Better get rid of my victorian nighty. I might be guilty of cosplaying the 1890s while I'm asleep. Anything else women shouldnt wear because it might fall into the realm of cosplay? Btw I dont veil at mass but I support women who do. Bless your heart!
Amen, the best answer to that inane argument from someone who obviously has the coin to not only travel to a Hard Rock Cafe, but also purchase meals, drinks, and the t-shirt they are now wearing with their Gap bermuda shorts and Birkenstock sandals --- is TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED. 🎤🎤🎤
Bro I'm not catholic, but I love you for making this video. It drives me insane going to church and seeing all around me the thing that I find the hardest to repent from.
I am 26 and have children I want to start getting them & me to wear head veils to mass there is something about it that is so humbling and also the feeling of being protected is beautiful feeling almost like a feeling that was missing in my life. A feeling of security that I am the daughter of god. it is hard because no one wears veils but I feel like it will be a humbling experience to start… and hopefully when my girls are older it’s normal for them as it wasn’t for me … it is hard tho the feeling of confliction with modesty and with wanting to wear what makes you comfortable which now a days is colored hair lashes nails and trendy clothes , I wanna set a good example for my daughters I’ve tooken out my piercing me and try covering my tattoos as much as possible I guess that’s a start… but there’s times I feel like I wanna put more effort and other times I’m just like god loves me anyway and I feel km the same with my kids …
I remember being shipped off to Lakeside Christian School of Clearwater Florida back in 1994, and was told that school uniforms prevent perversion. In 1998, I thought "what difference did school uniforms make in openly perverted country #1?" Japan is jokingly seen as openly perverted country #1, and school uniforms are more common than not.
I agree 100% with everything you said in the video. I typically encounter the same frustrating responses about practicing modesty from Non-Denominational churches and Protestants. As for attire, being a young male, I've recently found profound interest in how people in western societies used to dress in the early 1900's, I love suits, and I hope to ear them not just to mass, but outside aswell. For some of the folks in this comment section, it's also good to remember that we're living in the end times, as it was foretold. My guess is we won't see a revival of practicing the virtue of modesty (in secular society), people's hearts just aren't in the right place (but we can positively influence). Our world grows less mindful, less considerate, and more indifferent. Best we can do is educate our kids and encourage the practice of this lost virtue (while being the example). If I'm being honest, personally peak modesty (atleast in the west) was in the early 1900's. Clothing during that time period was designed and manufactured to accentuate male masculinity and female femininity. Modern-day music, clothing, art, media, and attitudes toward practicing what was once virtue is being reflected like never before. Edit: We should dedicate a prayer to the world and for God to guide us during these very unprecedented times.
Modesty is important for a Christian, but is a "historical reenactment" the right message we want to give? Also, if the outer shell becomes too important, this can lead to the shallowness and social narcissism of the Pharisee. (Look how pious I am compared to everyone else)
I do believe in dressing modestly, but it is more than the amount of skin covered and it is contextual. For instance, at a beach, wearing a long sleeved skirt to go swimming is dangerous and a bad idea. At church, I cover my shoulders and knees, but if I'm going swimming, I'm going to wear a normal swim suit. Furthermore, what makes me uncomfortable is when it is used as an excuse to judge others. Some may be dressed in more revealing clothes than we ourselves would wear, but to automatically equate that with them being irreverent, less faithful, doing it for the attention of the opposite sex, or someone who doesn't respect themselves is problematic. We don't know their hearts or their situation. Maybe they were on a jog and suddenly felt moved to go to church after decades away. Should we turn them away? It can also be taken to extremes. There are videos of men blaming women who are literally covered head to toe for being assaulted because of their eyes, or their hands, or voices.
I live in Sweden where Catholics are a minority coming from all over the world. Ethiopians & Eritrean Catholics attending NO mass(there is only one TLM church in whole Sweden) were all covered like muslims. I really do admire them that I am considering to wear at least a veil during mass. I just came back to my Catholic faith after more than 2 decades being a fallen away catholic. 🙏
Born late 70' had no idea there was a Latin mass, veils for women, etc It was a huge, completely surprising discovery for me. Just now, thinking back, I remember, as a child, that the old ladies, the grandmas in the church would put on scarves on... I recall mum would insist on putting on a hat to the church... But at one moment it all vanished. There were no more grandmas in scarf, mum stopped bothering about the hats... All i knew was New Ordo. For me "just mass". Found out about our tradition when I was nearly 40. Couldn't believe how recent it was. How complete the change has become... First it was the internet, then some books, then I started look around and ask around about the Latin mass... My first one was so disappointing... So putting off. It was a quiet mass. There were maybe 5 older ppl, no info, I had no idea what was going on.... All mass on the knees, the priest standing back to me all the time, just murmured to himself.. I was so lost. So on the Internet I found books for kids explaining the mass step by step. Then I found another church, with very open priest, who would answer my questions, I was on the high mass for the first time... Now when I happen to be on the Novous Ordo everything seems wrong... It's annoying, often puts me off...
One of the problems of our day is people saying that the exception should be the rule, not the normative. Exceptions can and should happen but they should be exceptional, not normal
I converted a little over a year ago from being Baptist. And I’ve been considering covering my hair full-time on and off, and I currently wear them anytime I may be in the presence of the Eucharist, such as mass out of respect and in reflection of the fact that I should dress differently in front of some thing, holy. My husband are use the real reason is that section where Paul talks about women’s hair being covered to pray I can’t remember the verse, but I’m sure someone knows what I’m talking about. But it doesn’t make logical sense to me for that to be the reason to Vail at mass unless I’m supposed to cover my hair anytime I pray. And I feel I should always be available to pray. So if he’s correct, I feel I have an obligation to always cover my hair. My husband didn’t understand this line of thinking, but wasn’t opposed to me wearing it because he thinks would be a good conversation starter about our faith. I do worry that I might become arrogant or think I’m better than someone else for doing some thing that could be considered radical like covering my hair full-time. I haven’t made a decision, but if anyone who’s been Catholic longer would like to give me any advice, I would love it. I do wear head scarves just because it’s cold or my hair is greasy that day sometimes but I currently don’t wear them outside of church for any sort of religious reason.
My mom's family comes from a long line of Anabaptists that have retained the teaching of the head covering. I would say that fear of pride might be the devil's way of discouraging you from following this scripture: wear the veil: God is more than able to help you conquer any temptation to pride; but fear of needing to correct a sinful attitude doesn't seem to me a good argument for not obeying one of His commands. Love, your sister in Christ.
Fair critique. Push back-the Church should provide head coverings free of charge to those who want them for women to keep. Also, for those too poor to own a suit (if that is the expectation) the church should pay for it. Feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the naked
7:12 This is the most philosophically important bit. Like asking if we should keep on sinning so that grace abounds. There is, and always will be, a standard. None of us perfectly meet that standard, and God's grace makes up that difference if we let it, but it doesn't mean the standard does not apply. In regards to smaller issues than our eternal souls, there are still standards that apply, and always will, and within a context of that standard existing we can allow for exceptions on the periphery. But to dissolve the standard just leads to chaos. Without a center to revolve around, we're just spinning off into abstract moral space.
I’m converting and I have observed some women wearing them. It’s not a universal rule in my church but I am curious about it. I will talk to my priest and my sponsor about it. I do wear modest clothing, usually dresses or skirts past the knee or longer with a nice blouse. I often, though not always, wear modest makeup, though sometimes none at all. I think this is worth discussing further and praying about. I’m not opposed to it if that is the way God prefers.
I went to mass on vacation too. Wearing a conservative, but beautiful dress and hair covering. Two women came up to me after telling me I looked amazing. One asks if I was in an order 😅.
It's often 35°C+ on Sunday mornings right now where I live. If I had to wear a suit and tie I'd probably faint in the parking lot. Instead I wear a short sleeved shirt and slacks.
I agree with the mode of dress at mass. There's also, too often, a tendency to have unnecessary conversation before and during mass! I've recently heard everything from laughter, joke telling and the evils of GOSSIP before the mass; wake up, chatterboxes; This isn't Starbucks! You're in Jesus' house!
In the summer heat of my country I can’t really wear a suit, as I strive to attend the holy mass daily. But I usually wear a shirt and long trousers at the very least. I look forward to retirement, to be able to wear decent clothes for the holy mass every day.
I always dress my best, but I wouldn't fit the ideal nice attire you seem to be describing. We are not poor, but we can not afford pretty/professional looking clothes. I wear a blouse and long skirt made of cotton that is pretty plain but modest, and is basically what I wear every day. My son will wear short sleeve plaid button-up shirts, but definitely not a suit. We buy what we can that is nice from thrift stores, but I always feel underdressed compared to others in my church. Again, I think grace should be given. I am not poor, but we are struggling living paycheck to paycheck. New clothes are expensive, especially when little kids grow through them or stain them so quickly.
Speak to them and make them aware that theyre causing others to sin by causing a man to stare this goes for women wearing the tight and or short clothes. We're here to inform and teach not just to judge them.
Good video. My only disagreement is with the head coverings. The apostle Paul said that women were given long hair as a covering. The only women who need to wear head coverings are women who have short hair, which is akin to baldness in the Lord's eye.
There's a young girl at my parish who wears a veil AND a mini skirt and belly shirt. Very confusing and distracting to say the least. As a choir member who has to face the congregation I find myself often distracted by women and their choices at mass..
Women who behave this way create a massive issue for men trying to live chastely. The priest should speak to her and tell her she must dress modestly at Holy Mass.
In due time, she will change for better or worse. My guess will be for the better. Pray for her; if possible, get to know her story and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you both.
A priest once told a group of us lay people that even he struggled at mass when handing the Eucharist and so many women came up to receive Our Lord wearing low cut shirts that showed their cleavage. I made sure I buttoned up to my neck after that!
@@evelynmom2902 I had a similar sermon, regarding the effect on the cut of a shirt when you are also kneeling to receive Holy Communion from a priest who is standing up... makes it effectively lower than it really is.
I am frustrated by the 'poor catechesis' of many churchgoers in terms of the clothes they wear in Mass. Is it part of the clergy's pastoral care that immodesty in church has remained the elephant in the room?
I get that hot pants and tube tops are immodest. I’ve never understood why not wearing a veil is immodest. I appreciate the wearing of veils as a return to traditional attire, but I don’t understand what modesty has to do with it. Perhaps someone could explain?
A woman's crowning glory is her hair. So as not to distract from the Glory of God during the liturgy, women put their hair up (temple priestesses i.e. prostitutes, wore their hair loose) and cover their heads. Sacred vessels and such are veiled in the Catholic Church: the tabernacle, the vessels used for the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist and women who bring forth new life, a gift from God. Men are to have their heads uncovered, for women to have uncovered heads is to imitate men or to pretend there is no difference, i.e. to rebel against the femininity given to them by God.
Modesty is not just related to chastity. I watched an hour + youtube conference by a traditional priest on the subject of modesty and it was almost entirely about speech, and none of it about dress. It's really more about humility, about being willing to cover or hide or leave unmentioned your own characteristics when they would distract from glorifying God, or from behaving appropriately.
I wondered why it isn’t enforced ( veils) then I read on Catholic Answers that it’s considered a discipline not a dogma. So if women choose to do it it’s because they feel a deep conviction too.
![Yeat & Summrs - GO2WORK [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NEFEwfPcXRA/mqdefault.jpg)
This reminds me of the time during Palm Sunday when a boy looked at me wide eyed and gestured to his mom saying "look mom, theres a muslim here" to which she shushed him. But it reminded me of how Christians used to be known for their modesty, and hijabs were based on the head coverings worn by Christian women, I have had other Catholics ask me to remove my head coverings because it could make people feel unwelcome, but the only person I do it for is Christ. I hope more Christian women adopt veiling in the future, even outside of church, as its so beautiful and sacred
I agree. I've taken to head covering outside mass as it just seems, not only biblical, but what women have done for the last 2 centuries. Hilarious story about being mistaken for a Muslim at mass! 😂
As long as you are humble hearted and modest in everything else it's fine With so many modern women it seems to be a " look at me I'm so modest and better than you" statement.
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Biblical? Like polygamy and squatting over a bucket for a week during ones period?
Honestly I wish some of you would just go ahead and convert to Islam.
@@PB_324 I agree! I think modesty is a journey, i previously didnt dress particularly reverent at mass because I didn't even understand the True Presence. But I learned that modesty isnt just about clothing, but an inward disposition of humility, and its something i do my best to cultivate, but everyone starts somewhere :)
@@PB_324if you are not modest in your clothing, how can you be modest in other ways. Modesty in clothing is the easiest thing to do. What you are essentially telling people who choose to dress modestly is that you are better than them because you are modest “on the inside” with the implication that they are modest only in dress. Modesty in dress is a sign of respect, for others and for yourself.
I recall very clearly that the first time I attended Mass where women were not wearing veil was in June of 1968. I was eight years old, and I was delighted not to have to wear a pesky veil anymore. Forty years later, I joined a traditional Latin Mass community and I am happy and privileged to wear a veil again. It is an honor and sign of respect to God to wear a veil at Mass, and I deeply regret my childish dislike of this tradition all those years ago.
Well you were 8 so have grace on yourself ❤
Veiling and modesty is beautiful
@@NinaR478 Yes it is, but I didn’t view it that way at the time!
what do men do to show at church to show the same respect that women are suppose take a knee to, Just show up? marginalize women again,and Among the harshest of these texts is 1 Timothy 2. The author is discussing worship and begins by stating that "men should pray" and then says "women should dress themselves modestly and decently." So men are to pray and women are to dress modestly. That's quite a contrast. But there's more: "Let a woman learn in silence and full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to be silent." The author's rationale: "For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor" (1 Timothy 2:8-14). So, according to this text, women were to be silent in worship because they were created second and sinned first. And the final blow is this: a woman "will be saved through childbirth, if she remains in faith and love and sanctification with modesty" (1 Timothy 2:15). This text is not too different from a Saying in the Gospel of Thomas (114) that says women can be saved once they become males. In any case, for the author of 1 Timothy, eternal salvation comes obstetrically?
@@sitka49 p
My wife has decided to wear a veil whether at Novus Ordo or TLM. It is a beautiful sign of humility and respect for sacred tradition.
I have been wearing a veil whenever I’m inside a church for 6 years.
I go to a smaller parish with a lot of large, young families. So many of the young girls and moms wear a veil. It's pretty widespread where I am. They look so lovely. It reminds me of Mass when I was a little girl.
It's respect to God.
@@pattysayssew3609 my parish is the same way. Funny but once the little girls do their first communion they keep wearing their communion veil and inevitably their mom joins if they hadn’t been wearing it.
@@maryandrew3109 sacred things are veiled
I also heard a Catholic you tuber say a few years ago, that Catholics should be recognised as always being well dressed and put together. Our bodies are temples for the Holy Spirit after all.
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@diana-wilde Do you remember which RUclipsr it was?? I'd love to listen to that point
Brian, I did fight back on this topic with you in the past. I have since changed my stance. Dressing nice doesn't mean spending money or showing off. I had a priest from Bangladesh who told us how his family was very poor. He did however have one white dress shirt. It was his duty to have it washed and ironed for Sunday Mass even when he was a young child. He wore the shirt every Sunday without exception. Since his story I wear a suit or blazer.
I just visited Lithuania about a month ago. The modesty of the women compared to America was notable. Much more emphasis on elegance and beauty than displaying the body as if in a meat market. Visiting there highlighted a lot of culutral problems and excesses of my country, modesty being a big one. Thank you so much for this video. You have a beautiful and inspiring way of communicating.
Did you see the Land of 10000 Crosses? That's a pilgrimage site I aim to visit.
I beg my friends with young girls to dress them in a classy way. No belly shirts for an 8 year old.
I'm currently stationed in Poland with the US Navy and can say that the Slavic people are the most modest people.
I have worn a head covering since i converted in 1980. From my perspective, canon law removed the obligation to wear a head covering leaving us free to do it out of love and reverence for Our Lord.
The more Catholic I become the more modest I get. I was fairly ok with pants in the church but I have really stopped wearing jeans in favor of long skirts or palazzo pants that look like skirts.
And this all started when I read St Padre Pio’s biography and was convicted to wear the veil. My church is full of modest people so now I find myself praying for people dressed in modestly. It’s not that I don’t wear jeans it’s that I respect the church space so much that I don’t want to cause “scandal” or someone else to sin because of me.
As a guy thank you so very much. It's not easy to keep custody of the eyes and mind in our modern culture that's full of immodesty. I also try to be modest in my dress as a man as much as possible.
Same here! I read about St. Padre Pio and suddenly was very awake at how immodest my skinny jeans at church were. Now I wear dresses (that cover my knees and shoulders) everyday.
@@rushthezeppelin it’s not only men like you but the priest. Priest are men too and they have to remain chaste. It’s a terrible thing that women are immodest in front of them.
@@evelynmom2902 Pants coupled with a tunic, sweater, or wrap that covers the bottom seems modest and classy to me as well.
@@Fiona2254 even though it's rare in our TLM parish our pastor does have a yearly reminder when summer starts that the priests and the altar servers are standing above us at the altar rail and subtly hints that women shouldn't have low cut necks at mass.
Humility and reverence has become a scarcity in the church.
But are the norm at the FSSPX chapels, Deo gratias.
Try a TLM.
I guess that depends on the Church you attend. At ours, the women and men are extremely respectful and modest. TLM
People are both reverent and modest at my parish. (N.O.)
A very interesting piece. I grew up wearing a tie and jacket to church. Women wpre dresses. We did the same at work. I was preaching in Scotland in the 80s. In 86, i planted a new congregation in a town called Forres. In my main church in Buckie i dressed up and we had traditional music. In the church in Forres it was casual and "modern". It's been modern everywhere since. I remember the women in the old church all decided to wear trousers on the same Sunday. I'm older now. I still wear sloppy clothes to church. Everyone does. I feel like we no longer worship to honor God. I want to give him my best. I no longer even own my best! You really addressed a topic im currently wrestling with. Thanks, Brian.
Have you been to Pluscarden?
@@bdnl6268 many times! I love it there. First time, August 1980. Last time September 2021.
@@samburton2978 Some of us used to go from Glasgow years ago. We were very connected. My father was brought up in Inverness. Now I live in the USA (Missouri). Glad you like Brian's channel. God bless.
I love how wearing a suit is so controversial! Dress up and fight the system.
I'm trying to wear a suit, just need the top part and finished.
I don't see it as controversial. That is just not something the average family can afford, especially when kids grow through clothes so fast. We have to settle on whatever style button-up we can find at the thrift store.
Thank you for addressing this topic. I drifted away from my Catholic upbringing for a time and explored the world of Evangelical Protestantism. There were a host of reasons for this such as the desire to form relationships with people my age (the parish where I grew up was now mostly elderly. I also admired evangelicals zeal for the gospel. Aside from my missing the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, I would say one of the biggest things that brought me back to my Catholic roots was the very casual attitude present in many evangelical churches. People would walk into church dressed very casually often carrying a cup of coffee into worship services. Although I’m thankful to be back in the Catholic Church, I’ve realized, as you pointed out, that this is pervasive in society as a whole. I live in Florida, and as you know it can get pretty steaming hot here in the summer. Some church attendees therefore show up in shorts and a T-shirt or even a tank top. They are usually the fastest ones to get out of church at the end of Mass. We Americans (and Canadians, I suppose) have placed personal comfort above everything else. I am guilty of this myself. One of your other videos convicted me about my own attire at Mass and what that communicates. If we truly believe that Christ is truly and uniquely present to us in the Eucharist shouldn’t we honor him in every way we can including our attire? If we were invited to dine with an important government official or celebrity, wouldn’t we want to present ourselves in our finest clothes even if they weren’t our most comfortable?
Thanks for your logical assessments of illogical statements.
That it has to be said is sad.
I have been covering my head at Mass since I returned to the Church 7 years ago after leaving it for 40 years.
I do it because St. Paul said to.
I am the only one for all these years.
One day I was wearing a triangle scarf tied at the back of my neck and a long flowing button-down over-shirt for cleaning the chapel and a cute thing happened.
In the parking lot, I passed a young boy being carried by his parents to pre-school.
When he saw me,
he said, “A princess!”
It took a while before I realized he was talking about me since I am in my 60’s but there was nobody else in the parking lot at the time.
Cover your head and become a princess!
My tween daughter loves her veil, in part because she looks like a princess and in part because boys aren't allowed to wear one lol
Brian, I found your channel from a modesty video you made a few years ago and it really helped guide me in modesty. This video is once again a hit! I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here. I think the lay women in the church need to hear more about modesty. But not only in dress, but modesty in speech and comportment. Also, Men need to be more aware of what they choose to wear to Mass. Too many times I have attended church only to find men wearing t-shirts with inappropriate images to Mass. You did it beautifully in this video.
Forgive me for posting this again:
Even the man at the Wedding of the King was kicked out after having not the Wedding garment.
He was able to get in, but didn't change and had no response why he hadn't.
Yea, the garment refers to the soul being covered by the Righteousness required to enter Paradise, the Courts of the King. And yet, the foreshadowing of those Courts is in the Sanctuary at Liturgy Most Divine. . .where Heaven and Earth meet through those Doors and Rails Most Holy.
We approach those Doors, those Rails, and we are beckoned in. Should we a bit wash our face, anoint our head, put on the garment for our soul and our body? Should not we dress, not simply to impress, but to present ourselves in humility with decorum most fitting?
I fully agree that we should be dressing modestly and appropriately for Mass, but I guess I take exception to the word “hyperbolic”. Just because society is at one extreme doesn’t mean that we should go too far the other way.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I have five daughters and, though they’re still young, it’s already a challenge to dress them appropriately. I wish I didn’t have to spend so much time thinking about it. I want them to grow up respecting themselves and others, but I also don’t want to give them the false idea that there is anything bad or shameful about their bodies. I also know families who dressed with “hyperbolic modesty”, only to have their daughters rebel and dress immodestly as soon as they could.
I really respect what you’re saying, but it is possible for the pendulum to swing too far the other way.
You re right , usally extremes tend to meet closer than the think they are. And usually extremes tend to cause the very extreme they try to fight against.
And every generation swings to the opposite extreme, so I can imagine that while gen Z Catholics are getting so conservative our kids might not be.
Good point. I think it then must be taught internally or to be integrated internally and that you discuss appropriate ways to rebel before any innappropriate rebelion occurs. My father told us long before we became teenagers that we would "hate" or strongly dislike him one day which was unimaginable at the time. He prepared us psychologically for the time of rebellion. I continued to be a strong Catholic during my university years because my Bible school warned me that many youth lose their faith when they go to university. Knowing universities are anti-catholic ahead of time was sufficient preparation and warning.
I have 3 daughters. I dress them modestly. I also teach them Theology of the Body. I got some child appropriate TOB books at a homeschool conference. They’ve naturally embraced modest dress on their own. When people have gifted them clothing that is immodest, they give it to me to donate to Goodwill because they don’t want to wear it. It is possible for children to learn and accept modesty. Especially if they love Our Lord and His Mother.
Yes, I actually misread the title of this video as “hyperbolic modesty is NOT the antidote for our time” ☺️ because it has become a tiktok trend and helps people judge each other, which is not good. Modesty, for me, comes from within, it is something we know inside if it is right or wrong. It is not a contest. And there are many contexts. I recently moved to a very rural area, and paradoxically, here, “modest” dresses I would wear in my original urban area, would bring too much attention. So I dress more casually. I also remember being in Italy when aí was teenager, and I was wearing a LONG skirt, it even almost covered my shoes, and a blue top that was up to my neck, literally but my arms were uncovered, it had no sleeves. I wanted to enter St. Anthony of Lisbon, also known there as St. Anthony of Padua there, because it is a Saint I hold close to my heart, but they didn’t let me enter the church dressed like that. I had a cultural shock back then. Now I can understand better, but as a teenager I was angry and saddened. It was the latest hottest Summer in Europe, that one, and temperatures were up to 43/44 Celsius in the shade.
I decided to veil, I came home two years ago, and at first I did not veil but but I find the practice so beautiful and reverent that anything I can do to bring reverence to Our Lord, I will do! If someone feels offended by it, they have the problem, I do it for Christ!
Question is why do they have a problem with it ? It does not effect them directly, I think it may be because they are uncomfortable with reverence and tradition, and see it as a threat, it may also show that by comparison they are not as reverent as they should be.
It causes conviction.
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There's also a difference of a worker just getting off of work and going to mass, or a curious homeless person going to mass vs a lazy person who doesn't wanna dress up for mass even though they have plenty of time or a person. Use common sense people.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 exactly.
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Well said. We need to explore both new and interesting plus old and true ways of practicing modesty. who agrees? 🤔
I have been consciously dressing ultra feminine with flowing dresses and skirts and pretty hairstyles for several years now as I have always enjoyed being counter-cultural.
Me too! 🙌
I'm trying to get on it by wearing a suit
I'm doing this also. I go to thrift shops and find the most beautiful and feminine dresses. I wear a dress to Mass, but have now begun wearing them for daily outings to the grocery store. A young lady dressed in exercise clothes said, "you look so pretty". I'm an older woman and feel like I need to do my part to display feminity and womanhood in a world of androgeny.
@@rbmhwils Yay! The older ladies (me too) are leading by example. How wonderful!
Head coverings were common in most human cultures and in churches both Catholic and Protestant until the 20th century when feminism infiltrated Christian spaces.
You've got to give it to them in regards to branding. Quite like "reproductive health" (you know what that really means), "feminism" is the exact opposite of what the name would suggest, and we just adopt these terms as if they weren't absurd. "Feminism" is masculinism, it's a rejection of all that is feminine and its replacement with what is masculine. Women behaving, dressing, and doing as men, is "feminism".
Women didn’t always wear hats or veils pre-1900.
@@sandraelder1101 common doesn’t mean universal
@@oldmovieman7550 True. I get your point. In the west, hats were common for both men and women into the 1940’s, but girls & teens often didn’t wear them. Quite common in church too.
100% spot on, from there it has been a dramic fall
It's a shame that half of this video had to be a disclaimer, but that's where we are ..
Reject modernity, embrace christianism, embrace Jesus Christ
Brian totally agree with you. I now wear a veil and a dress to my NO Mass. just my part to address the irreverence in dress and attitude in both men and women.
Your explanations are simple, clear, concise - yet also full and deep. Keep up the good work!
1:46 The casual attire at church might not be because of the removal of veils. I’m 60 and was raised Baptist. We had no tradition of veiling, but it was the norm for men to wear suits and women to wear dresses. Occasionally a woman would wear dress slacks, but it was not common until the 90’s. I became Catholic in 2000, and was surprised by the mix of dress I saw in Catholic parishes - everything from dress clothes to jeans. Meanwhile, in Protestantism, the more casual, worship band style of liturgy was spreading from mega churches outward. Even more traditional denoms like Lutheran and CRC were ditching their hymnals for worship choruses on drop-down screens. Casual attire was almost inevitable. One of the things that lead me to Catholicism was a sense of reverence, holiness, and awe in the Presence of Almighty God, and that was evident at a pretty low-church Life Teen mass! I’m not convinced veils are necessary or ditching them was what started the trend toward casual attire. I think something deeper was/is going on and permission to unveil was used as an excuse to follow personal whims, like so much else about Vat2. I mean, surely telling women they don’t have to veil can’t explain men wearing shorts and flip flops to meet Our Lord face to face. The problem may be that many don’t believe they ARE meeting Him or, worse yet, they know but think it’s no big deal.
Delighted to hear that you have a virtuous wife. Your children as blessed to have you as parents.
God bless you!
I am a Protestant (raised Baptist) but researching other denominations (reformed, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy). I appreciate your videos. This is a hard topic for me because I briefly went to a church a couple of years ago that was kind of a cult and they forced very restrictive modesty on women there, and it was the farthest I have ever felt from God. But I appreciate hearing your perspective. God bless ✝
I was a prot too. I earned my undergrad degrees in Bible and Music. During my studies, I had to confront the disparity of 500 year old protestantism to historical Christianity. Music history is Christian history. Christian history is Catholicism. She is the bride of Christ. Catholicism is the Church Jesus Christ founded and maintains. She has the Eucharist, which is the source and summit of the Christian faith.
Read the Catechism of the Council of Trent. The new Catechism is laid out well, but some information can be confusing and misunderstood.
Listen and read the Bible in a Year with Father Mike Schimtz and Jeff Cavins. It was the #1 podcast of all time for awhile.
Be prepared to lose your family, friends and even your job when you become Catholic. Christ is worth more than any loss.
@kylie Really interesting point! I am the only woman who veils at my parish and I almost always wear a dress, but that did come after years of self-reflection rather than instruction and "must do" regulations. I suppose asking the question as to our intention with something is important. Forced restriction without profound understanding isn't the same thing as faith.
I confess I don’t really understand veiling at mass. I’m long past having any particular beauty to veil, so no guys will be distracted by seeing me. Since only a few veil at my church, they are more noticeable than those who don’t. The lacy kind don’t really cover the hair anyway, though I get that it’s symbolic like a yarmulke. I’ve heard stories of women putting Kleenexes on their heads in a pinch in the old days. Speaking of yarmulkes, why don’t traditional Catholic men wear them? Veiling hasn’t been part of our cultural way of dress for a very long time. The Church doesn’t require it, and a woman can be modest without a veil. I’m not opposed to it, just somewhat puzzled by it & not convinced by the arguments I’ve heard so far.
@@sandraelder1101 1 Corinthians 11:1-15
@@sandraelder1101 for me it's not about distracting men. I confess that I don't have the perfect philosophy on it, but it struck me that Mary wore one and she wore one every time she was appearing to people throughout the centuries. She always appeared like them, with her skin color and dress matching them, yet she was always veiled whether or not they were veiled.
I'm Protestant, but I and many of the ladies at church have begun to headcover again over the last few years. I really enjoy looking out over the congregation and seeing the many modest and graceful women. It was strange to me to headcover after having grown up in the church my whole life, but now in getting dressed for church I feel like it makes me consider and prepare my heart more before walking in the door.
Thank you for your incredibly well thought out videos, Brian. I was confirmed in the faith this past Easter and enjoy your invitations to contemplate different aspects of the faith.
People would not go to an event where the king of England is wearing rags or half naked- Christ is Our Lord why the lack of modesty then?
Are the homeless and ragged not allowed to attend mass?
@@flavorgodThey are shown mercy and are therfore allowed to attend mass. But they have their poorness as a excuse, it is an exception, as said in the video. Never judge someone by the looks tho, but we shall show our greatest respect infront of Jesus!
Even the man at the Wedding of the King was kicked out after having not the Wedding garment.
He was able to get in, but didn't change and had no response why he hadn't.
Yea, the garment refers to the soul being covered by the Righteousness required to enter Paradise, the Courts of the King. And yet, the foreshadowing of those Courts is in the Sanctuary at Liturgy Most Divine. . .where Heaven and Earth meet through those Doors and Rails Most Holy.
We approach those Doors, those Rails, and we are beckoned in. Should we a bit wash our face, anoint our head, put on the garment for our soul and our body? Should not we dress, not simply to impress, but to present ourselves in humility with decorum most fitting?
@@flavorgod did you watch the video?
@@DRAGNFLY I was replying the OP of the post
This was excellent! Very well spoken and respectful of the opposing view 💕
One aspect of Christianity is to live a disciplined life.
“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. --1 Corinthians 10:23
I don't know about America but many churches in Europe do not allow entry in short shorts and tank tops.
I've also encountered a situation on vacation where people were denied communion on the basis of their pants not being long enough (just regular shorts, not short shorts), and one girl wearing an "inappropriate" dress denied as well (neither me or my parents saw anything inappropriate about it - she didn't stand out from the rest of the crowd). Which we all found pretty dumb. Even a family we know who is more pious than us (pretty active in the home parish outside of just attending mass, Catholic school, etc) decided to go to another church much further away because they found it unreasonable. This, btw, was in the middle of summer, and there was only one mass per sunday - at noon.
I'm not Christian, but I don't need to be to share the value of modesty. I only speak of every day modesty as there is no equivalent to the Catholic religious practices like mass in my religion, with that in mind I don't think women need to wear veils in everyday life (which I know you weren't much suggesting), but I do think clothing needs to be much less revealing for both men and women.
I agree. I noticed that when I started dressing more modestly, men were so much more courteous to me. Often, women dress immodest to get attention. We’re now in a society where dressing modestly attracts attention.
Thank you brother for sharing this. Regarding clothing I did have a hard time on how to view modesty in clothing, because of the words of our Lord Jesus not to worry about clothing and Him welcoming all. modest clothes are part of our convertion. Praise the Lord!
As a full time veiling christian woman in my 20s who wants to uphold the tradition and commands in the NT I'm so happy that more women choose to do it. Praise God for guiding us through the Holy Spirit 🙌🏾❤️🔥
Thanks!
At the last Novus Ordo Mass parish at which I was a parishioner (which is literally a 3-minute drive from my home), I was one of the few men that wore jacket, tie and slacks to Mass… and more than a few parishioners freaked out over my attire. I was also the only parishioner receiving Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling. I was almost a pariah. I wore it as a badge of honor.
Very good explanations!
Thank you! The casual nakedness I see is such a distraction. I was visiting a mosque on vacation and was in vacation attire. There was a woman at the door that handed out light cotton "sheets" to cover arms and legs before entering. I always appreciated this gesture and thought, why don't we offer shawls at the door, at minimum. Soon enough people would stop wearing tube tops, t-straps, low cut, etc.
When I reverted, I had nothing to wear to Holy Mass, just sportswear. I got some skirts/dresses and then the LGBTQ trans onslaught began, including mandated workplace training (I live in a deep blue state). In protest, I began to wear long skirts exclusively even to my male-dominated workplace (aviation maintenance) - and I noticed men have a nicer response to a woman in a skirt. What I see in the secular world is a range of the sloppy, androgenous butch look and/or the hyper sexualized look (tight revealing clothing, bare midriff, too short Daisy Dukes, cleavage, bra tops with bicycle shorts, false eyelashes, long fake painted nails, heavy makeup, duck lips, cookie cutter eyebrows, high heels, spandex mini skirts), sometimes a blend of both and in between those extremes both men and women wearing jeans or shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops. Elegance is nowhere to be seen.
I often hear claims of immodesty being rooted in “practicality”, it is useful to note skin cancer is incredibly prevalent and largely preventable. Dermatologists say mechanical protection ( clothing) is bar none far more effective than anything else. The deadliest animal on earth is a mosquitos, which are once again most effectively repelled by long loose clothing.
As someone who has abided by religious modesty for over a decade at this point, all through my adolescent years I can firmly say a significant amount of insecurities, preoccupations and obsessions that are prevalent among young women are largely avoidable by modesty. I am incredibly grateful to have been exposed to good arguments for modesty early in life, as I benefited enormously from it.
Within the Current Zeitgeist post-modernism. Maybe Vatican II was less about what was written and more about what people think was written. And then they project that view on their daily practices.
I’d love to wear a veil to show respect. I think it’s so beautiful but I’m afraid bc I’ve heard people talk about how much they don’t like it. I don’t want to draw attention to myself so I started wearing hats. I started wearing pretty, modest dresses at home and about town and now it’s just second nature. I’m thinking of wearing the veil to adoration… maybe -it’s a good place to start. I wish people would have more respect for sacred places and for each other.
Instead of veils women may also wear hats.
Just read the other comments. Boy, haters are gonna hate aren’t they!!! We should set ourselves apart in dress and behavior. Go to any Baptist service and you’ll see the entire congregation decked out in their finest, and these aren’t rich people!!!
Thrift stores for the win!
I didn't force my daughter to wear a veil. She was very young when I started wearing one and wanted to be like Mom, so it was natural for her. I have gone without my veil at mass a few times when she forgot hers, just so she would feel more comfortable. I also found that wearing the veil made me want to be more modest in other ways. I never used to have a problem with baring my shoulders or legs at church before, but now I make an effort to avoid those fashion choices for myself at mass.
I will never forget being at mass at St. Patrick's in Ottawa and seeing everyone use the communion rail, and seeing women wearing veils. I never grew up wearing a veil or kneeling for communion, I didn't even know that this was a catholic thing, we were never taught about it even though I went to catholic schools (yeah, Canada🙄) . I felt a call to do both several years ago, and it was very uncomfortable in the beginning. I received a lot of sideways looks at church. Now it is not that common, but enough ladies are wearing veils in our church that it is no longer "weird". Also, enough of us starting kneeling on the ground that they brought back the kneelers for communion. Again, the majority of the congregation doesn't use it, but enough of us do. I am happy that these practices are optional and not mandatory, because the willing return to these traditions shows a genuine love and respect for the mass and for the Eucharist.
The purity and holiness of one’s heart is reflected in one’s modesty and decency in dressing. One’s internal disposition is reflected by one’s external appearance.
As someone going into RCIA ive been attending mass all summer with my fiancée and one thing ive noticed is we've become more more modest and well dressed on sundays than when we went to our Lutheran church.
i hadn't gone to mass in so long, since i was a kid. i went for a baptism and was shocked by how people were dressed. tight dresses and low tops, i wasn't raised like that.
Were you raised not to go to mass?
@@susancostello-vf2dz lol you being snarky?
i think its correct that itshould be a choice and its tragic that these women see this as some form of oppression rather than veiled women trying to be reverent during the sacrifice of the Mass
I have no problem with women wearing veils in church if they want. I hope people don’t see me as irreverent or immodest because I don’t.
@@sandraelder1101 i mean ultimately it doesn't matter what people think... unless you are some sort of authority that has public sway however what does matter is answering to the Lord.
Conflicted myself. I don't think women should be forced to wear veils or other layered head coverings, nor do I believe men should be forced to dress in their finest 3 piece suits to attend a worship service. If only because its 115F here in the summers, you're going to cause health issues wearing too much. I dress fairly casual myself, jeans & henley style shirt. However, in my own church, I have seen some women dress in clothing that definitely leans onto the risque side. Form fitting dresses, I wouldn't call them 304-ish or clubwear, but perhaps too much for church.
What I'm trying to say is that there's a lot of room between a Niqāb and and LBD. Disclaimer, I'm not a Roman Catholic.
It is amazing to see so many young women veiling at mass again with no prompting from the Vatican!It is the Holy Spirit at work.❤️
There are actually a lot of young women who would love to wear veils at church. I see this conversation all the time online. If you go to mass other than Latin mass, it's very nerve-racking as you're the only one wearing it. I would love to wear one, too, but as someone who goes to mass alone, I'm already a bit anxious. I'm getting used to going alone now, but if I wear a veil, I'd feel so subconscious.
I see it this way. If a person was to meet a president or a king or a favorite actor, celebrity, they would spend days of preparations. Go do the hairdresser, buy new dress and so on. But when it comes to go meet with God, some everyday pants are ok. I want to look my best when I go meet Lord of the whole universe who created everything and gave me life. This also help to strength the faith. Our outside reflects our inside. Also if for a woman is such a bother to cover her head for 2 hours, why is it such a terrible sacrafice?
While I understand where you are getting at, wouldn't that time better be spend preparing our hearts rather than our appearance?
We should dress respectfully, but personally I've realized all the time I spend picking my outfit and doing my hair for church could be my vanity too and a distraction from my prayers.
@@dansedevie123 I think our hearts reflects our apperance. But also apperance can help shape up our hearts. If someone is distracted while praying I think it doesn't matter if this person goes dressed in suit or sweatshirt. However dressing properly to the occassion meeting with God, will help improving the faith more than in sweatshirt. I think we have enough time to prepare our hearts and dress properly. Maybe wake up earlier if needed or sacrafice coffie time. Intention is important, to dress respectfully for God and not to show off to people. Final thought, you might be a distraction for others if you dress disrespectfuly, that is also something to take into consideration :)
Modesty is the virtue that nourishes the other virtues - it firstly protects your heart therefore allowing freedom for the other virtues. This is what I think. Thank you Jesus ❤
I am an Episcopal who is in OCIA. I cover my head in church. At the Episcopal Church I am the only one. The older ladies sometimes comment because it reminds them of the "old days" or when there Catholic friends used to wear mantillas. When I go to Mass there is usually five of us in head covers out of a hundred. But no one ever comments on it. I am in my 30's.
The biggest shock though was last Sunday when a visiting Priest was wearing crocks while preparing the Eucharist. I have feelings about this.
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I'm a 24-year-old Protestant female, and I agree with you. Other women _actually ask_ why I wear modest, long dresses -- and I'm not even wearing head a head covering! But just the fact that I dress in a very modest, sensible, unadorned, comfortable manner draws looks and questions.
I actually (chuckle) take pleasure in wearing sensible, "old-fashioned" clothes, because other women ask questions, and I get to tell them how it's _much_ more comfortable to keep my body covered, and to not wear lots of jewelry or makeup. It's _freeing._ As a young woman, I'll freely admit that I struggle with vanity about my form and my appearance sometimes. But when my body is covered and I _know_ others can't see enough to judge, I don't even think about it! I wish that for all young women my age in this sex-saturated world.
One of the most impactful things for me was as a little kid seeing a man come in with a suite on. I was so impressed that he put in the effort. He seemed so cool to me because he knew how to pray and was a man and I was only a boy. How someone could wear short shorts to a church is so heart breaking. The truth is girls and guys too know they're dressing immodestly in their hearts but buy and wear those clothes anyways. They covet the evil within their hearts and then run their mouths when confronted with the truth they shun. We know what is bad and good for us.
I remember coming out of my car in my work parking lot and having a rosary in hand and having a discussion with a muslim woman about the rosary and a similar to rosary like object hanging from her car!s rear view mirror. Let's wear our symbols so we can have discussions with people. I would not have had the discussion I had without the rosary in hand.
When people say dress doesn't matter in church, ask the question: Have you ever seen a priest say a mass in shorts and flip-flops?
Went to Rome last week. Only the Muslim women seemed to be appropriately dressed.
I noticed that too when I went to Vatican City in 2022, I was shocked by how immodest alot of the attire people were wearing. Italy has been westernized for quite some time though
I agree but there is a difference between dressing appropriately for Mass and dressing in 1940s cosplay.
Just curious. How is wearing a dress and a veil cosplay? Dresses can be any length these days. Do you have a problem with maxi dresses? Why is a triangle of lace a problem? Should women not wear bonnnets, many black women do. How about a bandana? Cowboy hats? Unless you have a horse better not. Mini skirts are so 60's. Women, ya better stop cosplaying that it's the sixties. Better get rid of my victorian nighty. I might be guilty of cosplaying the 1890s while I'm asleep. Anything else women shouldnt wear because it might fall into the realm of cosplay? Btw I dont veil at mass but I support women who do. Bless your heart!
Amen, the best answer to that inane argument from someone who obviously has the coin to not only travel to a Hard Rock Cafe, but also purchase meals, drinks, and the t-shirt they are now wearing with their Gap bermuda shorts and Birkenstock sandals --- is TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED. 🎤🎤🎤
I would love to wear a veil but I’d feel like people would view that as a showy pious act instead of a sign of modesty.
We do it for Our Lord and giving him due reverence. Not for other people.
Care not for the opinions of the world, care for what the lord says along with the personal convictions of the Holy Spirit
I’m a confessional Lutheran and I’m beginning to see head coverings beginning to make a comeback in our services.
Bro I'm not catholic, but I love you for making this video. It drives me insane going to church and seeing all around me the thing that I find the hardest to repent from.
Please be open to what male Catholic saints have written and/or said about custody of the eyes. I am 61 and still struggle with controlling my eyes
I am 26 and have children I want to start getting them & me to wear head veils to mass there is something about it that is so humbling and also the feeling of being protected is beautiful feeling almost like a feeling that was missing in my life. A feeling of security that I am the daughter of god. it is hard because no one wears veils but I feel like it will be a humbling experience to start… and hopefully when my girls are older it’s normal for them as it wasn’t for me … it is hard tho the feeling of confliction with modesty and with wanting to wear what makes you comfortable which now a days is colored hair lashes nails and trendy clothes , I wanna set a good example for my daughters I’ve tooken out my piercing me and try covering my tattoos as much as possible I guess that’s a start… but there’s times I feel like I wanna put more effort and other times I’m just like god loves me anyway and I feel km the same with my kids …
You are 100% right
I remember being shipped off to Lakeside Christian School of Clearwater Florida back in 1994, and was told that school uniforms prevent perversion.
In 1998, I thought "what difference did school uniforms make in openly perverted country #1?" Japan is jokingly seen as openly perverted country #1, and school uniforms are more common than not.
I agree 100% with everything you said in the video. I typically encounter the same frustrating responses about practicing modesty from Non-Denominational churches and Protestants. As for attire, being a young male, I've recently found profound interest in how people in western societies used to dress in the early 1900's, I love suits, and I hope to ear them not just to mass, but outside aswell.
For some of the folks in this comment section, it's also good to remember that we're living in the end times, as it was foretold. My guess is we won't see a revival of practicing the virtue of modesty (in secular society), people's hearts just aren't in the right place (but we can positively influence). Our world grows less mindful, less considerate, and more indifferent. Best we can do is educate our kids and encourage the practice of this lost virtue (while being the example). If I'm being honest, personally peak modesty (atleast in the west) was in the early 1900's. Clothing during that time period was designed and manufactured to accentuate male masculinity and female femininity. Modern-day music, clothing, art, media, and attitudes toward practicing what was once virtue is being reflected like never before.
Edit: We should dedicate a prayer to the world and for God to guide us during these very unprecedented times.
Modesty is important for a Christian, but is a "historical reenactment" the right message we want to give? Also, if the outer shell becomes too important, this can lead to the shallowness and social narcissism of the Pharisee. (Look how pious I am compared to everyone else)
I do believe in dressing modestly, but it is more than the amount of skin covered and it is contextual. For instance, at a beach, wearing a long sleeved skirt to go swimming is dangerous and a bad idea. At church, I cover my shoulders and knees, but if I'm going swimming, I'm going to wear a normal swim suit.
Furthermore, what makes me uncomfortable is when it is used as an excuse to judge others. Some may be dressed in more revealing clothes than we ourselves would wear, but to automatically equate that with them being irreverent, less faithful, doing it for the attention of the opposite sex, or someone who doesn't respect themselves is problematic. We don't know their hearts or their situation. Maybe they were on a jog and suddenly felt moved to go to church after decades away. Should we turn them away?
It can also be taken to extremes. There are videos of men blaming women who are literally covered head to toe for being assaulted because of their eyes, or their hands, or voices.
I live in Sweden where Catholics are a minority coming from all over the world. Ethiopians & Eritrean Catholics attending NO mass(there is only one TLM church in whole Sweden) were all covered like muslims. I really do admire them that I am considering to wear at least a veil during mass. I just came back to my Catholic faith after more than 2 decades being a fallen away catholic. 🙏
Born late 70' had no idea there was a Latin mass, veils for women, etc
It was a huge, completely surprising discovery for me.
Just now, thinking back, I remember, as a child, that the old ladies, the grandmas in the church would put on scarves on...
I recall mum would insist on putting on a hat to the church...
But at one moment it all vanished.
There were no more grandmas in scarf, mum stopped bothering about the hats...
All i knew was New Ordo. For me "just mass".
Found out about our tradition when I was nearly 40. Couldn't believe how recent it was. How complete the change has become...
First it was the internet, then some books, then I started look around and ask around about the Latin mass...
My first one was so disappointing...
So putting off. It was a quiet mass.
There were maybe 5 older ppl, no info, I had no idea what was going on.... All mass on the knees, the priest standing back to me all the time, just murmured to himself..
I was so lost.
So on the Internet I found books for kids explaining the mass step by step.
Then I found another church, with very open priest, who would answer my questions, I was on the high mass for the first time...
Now when I happen to be on the Novous Ordo everything seems wrong... It's annoying, often puts me off...
What is a philosophically strong definition of modesty?
One of the problems of our day is people saying that the exception should be the rule, not the normative. Exceptions can and should happen but they should be exceptional, not normal
I converted a little over a year ago from being Baptist. And I’ve been considering covering my hair full-time on and off, and I currently wear them anytime I may be in the presence of the Eucharist, such as mass out of respect and in reflection of the fact that I should dress differently in front of some thing, holy. My husband are use the real reason is that section where Paul talks about women’s hair being covered to pray I can’t remember the verse, but I’m sure someone knows what I’m talking about. But it doesn’t make logical sense to me for that to be the reason to Vail at mass unless I’m supposed to cover my hair anytime I pray. And I feel I should always be available to pray. So if he’s correct, I feel I have an obligation to always cover my hair. My husband didn’t understand this line of thinking, but wasn’t opposed to me wearing it because he thinks would be a good conversation starter about our faith. I do worry that I might become arrogant or think I’m better than someone else for doing some thing that could be considered radical like covering my hair full-time. I haven’t made a decision, but if anyone who’s been Catholic longer would like to give me any advice, I would love it. I do wear head scarves just because it’s cold or my hair is greasy that day sometimes but I currently don’t wear them outside of church for any sort of religious reason.
My mom's family comes from a long line of Anabaptists that have retained the teaching of the head covering. I would say that fear of pride might be the devil's way of discouraging you from following this scripture: wear the veil: God is more than able to help you conquer any temptation to pride; but fear of needing to correct a sinful attitude doesn't seem to me a good argument for not obeying one of His commands. Love, your sister in Christ.
Fair critique. Push back-the Church should provide head coverings free of charge to those who want them for women to keep. Also, for those too poor to own a suit (if that is the expectation) the church should pay for it.
Feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the naked
7:12
This is the most philosophically important bit. Like asking if we should keep on sinning so that grace abounds. There is, and always will be, a standard. None of us perfectly meet that standard, and God's grace makes up that difference if we let it, but it doesn't mean the standard does not apply. In regards to smaller issues than our eternal souls, there are still standards that apply, and always will, and within a context of that standard existing we can allow for exceptions on the periphery. But to dissolve the standard just leads to chaos. Without a center to revolve around, we're just spinning off into abstract moral space.
I am veiling when attending a reverent NO Mass. I am happy to do it out of reverence for my Lord
I’m converting and I have observed some women wearing them. It’s not a universal rule in my church but I am curious about it. I will talk to my priest and my sponsor about it. I do wear modest clothing, usually dresses or skirts past the knee or longer with a nice blouse. I often, though not always, wear modest makeup, though sometimes none at all. I think this is worth discussing further and praying about. I’m not opposed to it if that is the way God prefers.
I went to mass on vacation too. Wearing a conservative, but beautiful dress and hair covering. Two women came up to me after telling me I looked amazing. One asks if I was in an order 😅.
It's often 35°C+ on Sunday mornings right now where I live. If I had to wear a suit and tie I'd probably faint in the parking lot. Instead I wear a short sleeved shirt and slacks.
I agree with the mode of dress at mass. There's also, too often, a tendency to have unnecessary conversation before and during mass! I've recently heard everything from laughter, joke telling and the evils of GOSSIP before the mass; wake up, chatterboxes; This isn't Starbucks! You're in Jesus' house!
In the summer heat of my country I can’t really wear a suit, as I strive to attend the holy mass daily. But I usually wear a shirt and long trousers at the very least.
I look forward to retirement, to be able to wear decent clothes for the holy mass every day.
Respect for Our Lord and for ourselves, if you have it wear it.
I always dress my best, but I wouldn't fit the ideal nice attire you seem to be describing. We are not poor, but we can not afford pretty/professional looking clothes. I wear a blouse and long skirt made of cotton that is pretty plain but modest, and is basically what I wear every day. My son will wear short sleeve plaid button-up shirts, but definitely not a suit. We buy what we can that is nice from thrift stores, but I always feel underdressed compared to others in my church. Again, I think grace should be given. I am not poor, but we are struggling living paycheck to paycheck. New clothes are expensive, especially when little kids grow through them or stain them so quickly.
Speak to them and make them aware that theyre causing others to sin by causing a man to stare this goes for women wearing the tight and or short clothes. We're here to inform and teach not just to judge them.
Good video. My only disagreement is with the head coverings. The apostle Paul said that women were given long hair as a covering. The only women who need to wear head coverings are women who have short hair, which is akin to baldness in the Lord's eye.
I can tell you as a woman who veils, that this is 100% a personal choice, and not insisted upon by a male relative.
There's a young girl at my parish who wears a veil AND a mini skirt and belly shirt. Very confusing and distracting to say the least. As a choir member who has to face the congregation I find myself often distracted by women and their choices at mass..
Women who behave this way create a massive issue for men trying to live chastely. The priest should speak to her and tell her she must dress modestly at Holy Mass.
In due time, she will change for better or worse. My guess will be for the better.
Pray for her; if possible, get to know her story and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you both.
A priest once told a group of us lay people that even he struggled at mass when handing the Eucharist and so many women came up to receive Our Lord wearing low cut shirts that showed their cleavage. I made sure I buttoned up to my neck after that!
@@evelynmom2902 I had a similar sermon, regarding the effect on the cut of a shirt when you are also kneeling to receive Holy Communion from a priest who is standing up... makes it effectively lower than it really is.
I am frustrated by the 'poor catechesis' of many churchgoers in terms of the clothes they wear in Mass. Is it part of the clergy's pastoral care that immodesty in church has remained the elephant in the room?
I see the same reaction when I go to Mass as my daughters and I veil and dress modestly.
As a wise dude once said “Hyperbolic modesty” “I guess Cardinal Siri of Genoa, Venerable Pius XII, and all the saints were just “hyperbolic”, huh?
I get that hot pants and tube tops are immodest. I’ve never understood why not wearing a veil is immodest. I appreciate the wearing of veils as a return to traditional attire, but I don’t understand what modesty has to do with it.
Perhaps someone could explain?
Not wearing a veil is not considered immodest.
A woman's crowning glory is her hair. So as not to distract from the Glory of God during the liturgy, women put their hair up (temple priestesses i.e. prostitutes, wore their hair loose) and cover their heads. Sacred vessels and such are veiled in the Catholic Church: the tabernacle, the vessels used for the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist and women who bring forth new life, a gift from God. Men are to have their heads uncovered, for women to have uncovered heads is to imitate men or to pretend there is no difference, i.e. to rebel against the femininity given to them by God.
Modesty is not just related to chastity. I watched an hour + youtube conference by a traditional priest on the subject of modesty and it was almost entirely about speech, and none of it about dress. It's really more about humility, about being willing to cover or hide or leave unmentioned your own characteristics when they would distract from glorifying God, or from behaving appropriately.
What *I* would like to do is wear a dress to Mass. It is *extremely* difficult to find a modest dress in the stores!
I wondered why it isn’t enforced ( veils) then I read on Catholic Answers that it’s considered a discipline not a dogma. So if women choose to do it it’s because they feel a deep conviction too.
Vatican 2 didn't change "all that".
Modesty of dress is still required when one visits the King of kings.