RWBY Discussion: Who's Actually the Protagonist Anymore?
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- I recorded the end slate where I talk about the new Patreon rewards right after I had woken up this morning, which is why I sound even more dead inside than usual.
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Only a man with half of his body replaced by titanium hydraulics was strong enough to solo carry Volume 7.
Amen to that
My brother ✊🏾
And then volume 8 happened and he was done dirty with what they did to him
@@aundersave they massacred our boy
@@aundersave The worst part, is that he's still in the right. His plans and actions always had some semblance of logic, which was way more than anything RWBY displayed. Yes, even the bomb, as terrible an atrocity as that would have been. It would have been merciful compared to leaving them to the Grimm.
This is why so many people say that Ironwood was the best character in the volume and one of the better characters in RWBY; because he actually does sh*t to progress the plot forward rather than sitting on his a** waiting for things to happen and force him to act. He's also the only one who shows actually growth and change that doesn't just come out of nowhere or only lasts for 2 minutes before jumping back to the status quo.
@Games ...Wow.
General Ironwood looks better than damn near everyone else because *he's the MOST proactive one there!*
@@herolink28 For me, this volume made Ironwood my favorite RWBY character, right next to Tyrian.
Characters who push the plot forward instead of being passive are more interesting, who would of guessed?
You can say "shit" and "ass" on the internet. Nobody is going to stop you.
@@armorfrogentertainment Force of habit. I don't swear in real life, so I tend not to do it in writing unless it's needed.
Person: I thought Ren was the protagonist.
Person2: I thought it was Ozpin.
Person3: Guys Jaune is obviously the protagonist.
Person4: Guys what about Ruby?
Everyone: What *about* Ruby?
Person4: 😑
That's too accurate XD
Sad but true.
Exactly
Demetrius Prime To be fair there Ren only got real focus in Volume 4, with the reveal of his backstory, Semblance how he met Nora and eventually ended with him killing the Grimm that killed his parents while maybe getting together with Nora afterwards. And after that was over he was quickly forgotten about afterwards. And this is how he’s usually treated, so I would replace him with Qrow there since he steals away more screen time than Ren does, at least throughout the whole show.
@@ryancarson6962 True. The Jaune, Qrow, Oscar trio seem to be the most consistently focused on with others randomly having a spotlight on them. If any member of that trio is present in a scene, one or each of them are usually the focus of that scene.
It's never made sense to me that despite having SDC literally branded on his face Adam never mentions Weiss once. You'd think that would be his biggest problem with Blake. She ran from the white fang and then befriended a Schnee. Instead he just focused on Yang because all white fang story lines seem to revolve around Blake's love life.
Or when Ilia interrupted Blake's speech in V5, why not mention that Blake is friend with a Schnee of all people.
Or Jacques taking offense that his daughter is friend not only with a Faunus, but an ex-White Fang and a Belladonna to boot.
Though yeah, that was my problem too with Blake with a long time: the only characters she interacts on a regular basis are either in love with her (for no real reason given except for Sun), or her family.
That's literally why I stopped shipping bumblebee 😪 Literally tanked what could've been a cool revenge plot.
It feels like a reveal only for the audience, as in they only thought about what the AUDIENCE reaction would be and not the characters in the scene: Blake was supposedly dating Adam, she has to have seen it before meanwhile I highly doubt Yang even gave a shit about what his face looks like it
It feels like a case where the writers of the show *RWBY* are less interested about telling the story of team *RWBY* than they are telling the story of the shiny new characters they came up with/always had more freedom with/their own self-insert characters, but even though they desperately want to, they can’t get rid of *RWBY* because that’s what the show is called and what the synopsis promises.
It honestly reminds me of a bad DnD Dungeon Master, where they have all these plots and characters and worldbuilding to tell to the players but never really gives the players an opportunity to CHANGE anything. The DM is much more invested in telling the story they wrote out than collaborating and thinking about how the player's decisions might affect their design.
Imagine if they put a hold on rwby and made a spin off about the lives of other hunters or characters of the world being affected by what's going on or due to the choices that the main cast has done
You said it perfectly. Hit the nail right on the head.
@@ZyroShadowPony That would imply that the main characters have ever made choices that affected the world. Removing the supposed main characters from these events does not change the outcome. For example, Ruby would not have unlocked Deus Ex Machina to defeat Cinder if she did not see Phyrha die.
they can’t get rid of the title "RWBY" because it gives more money, as there are some idiots who will watch it regardless of how shitty it is just because there is RWBY one the name(calling myself out oof)
James Ironwood: holding up the entire rickety building of Volume 7.
Sarah Tilgner Ironwood will have to replace his spine with cybernetic enhancements if he keeps doing this, because it seriously can’t be doing good things for his back.
@@ryancarson6962 not to mention literally every other character is viciously clawing at his back trying to rip it out
Ironwood: he would've been better if Strohiem
I wouldn't say it was rickety, but it was definitely Ironwood's building.
Did nothing wrong
The sad thing is, I think I know what Miles and Kerry's problem is, because it's a problem I struggle with as an aspiring writer: they came up with all these different unique and diverse characters, and they're so excited to show them all off that they're cramming them all together into the same show, not realizing that they're not giving them any room to show themselves off.
Worst part is... they have an alternate way to show these guys off: Novels! 'After the Fall' gave some really great characterization for Team CFVY that they couldn't have possibly gotten with the show being so cluttered as it is right now. So, as much as I want to love JNR and the Ace Ops and Oscar... they really belong in spin-offs, not the main series. Miles and Kerry need to write a bunch of these characters out, let them go off on adventures that can be covered in novels or spin-offs, and give Team RWBY the chance to be more than background characters in their own show.
I'd really love to see JNR + Oscar get their own spin-off. It would ironically be far better than canon since they all make for better protags than Team RWBY.
@@redx589 Exactly my thoughts; Jaune's arc with Pyrrha, while overdone, was a good concept. Ren's backstory was one of the best parts of Volume 4. Nora's care for Mantle made sense considering her own origins as a street orphan. And Oscar's introduction really made him feel like the hero of his own story. Give them a spin-off that describes their adventures, and people would be praising how great the main characters are; not harping on Jaune for stealing screen time from the actual main characters.
@@johnking9943 I fucking need this. RT Please give me that fucking ALPN spin-off. I want Jaune & Oscar bonding as partners. They have the potential for a older brother/little brother relationship. A completely new dynamic that doesn't exist anywhere else in the story. RT is just wasting that potential to try and push a ship instead of this wonderful Bromance.
Imagine a spin off with the Oz reincarnations and Oscar included. It would be amazing!!
Wish novels were more acknowledged or advertised though. I had no idea about the After The Fall novel til the last couple days. Who knows what else I don’t know about. Rwby. Rwby Chibi which isn’t canon. After the fall and I guess some comic that got cancelled? Dunno if there’s anything else.
The thing is Ruby does engage with the main plot: she initiates stuff, only to get shafted so someone else can do anything about it.
She decided to lie to Ironwood, and spends the rest of the volume agonising about her decision... only for OSCAR to deliver the truth to Ironwood and be the last one trying to reason with him.
She deduces that the bad guys don't care about Robyn specifically, and their assassination attempt was just to frame Penny and Ironwood, and swears to Pietro they'll catch those responsible... only for her to not do anything about it, since Qrow Clover and Robyn take care of Tyrian while Ironwood takes on Watts.
She's the one who came with the idea for spying on Jacques Schnee, at first not thinking he may be involved in the Salem stuff, but since the stakes are so high they don't have the leisure not to be vigilent... then spends the event doing jack in the main hall.
Even with the Ace Ops fight, Ruby was the one with the biggest conflict with her opponent. Yet her part of the fight is the least focused on and she doesn't even get to land the last blow. Instead Weiss has to put a stop to the fight.
I believe I remember a quote from Miles, though I can't find from when so I might be mistaken, but it was in the lines of "we don't want to just tell Ruby's story, but of the ensemble cast". Guess they took the concept too far, because they barely gives Ruby and her team crumbs, while ending up with loads of characters they seem more interested to write (or are there just to be there but doesn't really bring anything) I just don't care about.
This is all true she makes good suggestions but let’s everyone else do the sated suggestion that how it works honey
Then Ruby is the one everyone goes to advice. That's why the show is named after her team, it's really the Ruby Advice Show now XD
You know, a similar argument exists for Attack on Titan and how focus shifted from Eren and his two friends to the wider cast. That's only half true since Eren has become more and more active since then (like you wouldn't believe)
@@murphyjack90 Eren became so active that he's the villain to everyone else.🤣
I still remember when either Miles or Kerry said they'd designed team JNPR as a B Team, but they ended up being a second A Team because they loved them so much.
Sometimes feels like RWBY got shafted into the B Team as a result.
Ruby's whole problem is that she's meant to be the bright cheerful pillar in a setting that grows darker and darker, but she remains the bright and cheerful pillar that helps keep them all together. Her role is the optimistic one that goes against the pessimistic plans to keep the team and the audience in a happier place.
But none of her actions and consequences of those actions ever take hold, and what she does never directly affects the Villains and Antagonist to any kind of degree that would justify her remaining cheerful and positive. At least in a meta-sense.
Her cheerfulness should either:
a) Result in the breaking of her optimism where all her cheerful naivety is snapped on her back as her well-meaning actions and cheerful protag cheer is what causes the death in the first place. In the end she ends up as the last broken pillar of optimism, or her broken optimism is what results in the darker setting.
or
b) Changes the minds of the evil or the broken and sad to be more cheerful and accepting. Cheesy as it would be, having her be what causes fights to momentarily stop as they're all influenced or wowed by her optimism should be the end goal for a more idealistic story.
A character like Ruby has two end goals that should be reached for her character, aka the optimistic one. She either needs to have her whole world shattered and broken and left without the cheer that she provided to show what the effect of the world would have on her (Think of 9S from Nier:Automata) or her optimism pays off and against all odds she beats against the pessimistic world and while she's beaten and scruffed she comes out with a smile and a victory (Think say Sora from Kingdom Hearts).
And these two shouldn't be mutually exclusive as going from one or to other would be a great way to move the status quo. But they do nothing with Ruby's temperament, and in the end they just end up as another thing as a 'Protagonist' checklist that they just filled in.
Yes! Good comment!
I think what RT have in mind is the second route of her coming out okay, but here is the problem. In a meta sense there is no struggle or compelling pay off to her actions most of the time. She doesnt even inspire other characters that take actions for her (like Luffy or Naruto). Her actual personality and interests are simply deleted and not embellished to add to her character (like Aang). She is simply a walking talking plot device who serves as Monty Oum and the crews mouthpiece to spout vague notions about the endurance of the human spirit (no disrespect to any of them mind you). She barely qualifies as a character at all, much less a static one so as a result, her optimism is vapid. Her character, a pretentious void. She is Hollow.
Ruby needs to lose someone close and change like how gon did when kite died happy and optimistic to I'm going to murder everyone
@@laughingconstantly5712 I dont necessarily think the show needs to go that far. Ruby doesnt necessarily need to be completely broken down to that extreme in order to be interesting. The problem is that they dont embellish or flesh out the things they have already set up for her character. The lack of emotional investment and respect for her place in the plot is the issue here. A set up like what went down in the chimera ant arc would mean jack shit if Gon wasnt already an compelling and endearing character for us to want to see him go psycho. Slapping that onto ruby now would just be pandering.
@@laughingconstantly5712 I dont think she needs that sort of push. The issue is the writing , you can make a character break without the death of another.
Did anyone else notice that Blake’s running away arc is just a worst version of Killua from Hunter X Hunter plot point? Think about it right before the assault on the palace killua has to learn to not run away from stronger opponents that way he doesn’t get Gon killed. In Rwby Blake has to face her fear of her stronger boyfriend so she doesn’t get her friends killed. The big difference here is killua fails at changing so it makes sense for him sit still run when he can’t win but Blake successfully changes just to have that plot point thrown away.
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well.
Yeah what Blake goes through is no longer a consistent aspect of her character that had the fleshing out it needed to resolve. It was just fixed half heatedly and now she isnt really replaced with anything compelling.
Sounds a bit more like Weiss arc.
I always find myself shouting "YES!" when I watch your videos
That is literally the perfect response
Yeah same
Yee
_sees title_
Yes.
Like an Herbal Essence commercial?
Its galling how Ruby hasn't interacted with cinder in any meaningful way since season 2, heck, she interacted more with the lackeys than Cinder herself, in season 3-6 she didn't even interact with her unless you count a fireball meaningful interaction, and their only interaction this season was Ruby showing up at the end of a battle with eye beams, Ruby rarely interacts with the villains, she squared up with Torchwick in episode one, but Blake and Sun fought him in the finale, S2 she fought mechs and helped fight Torchwick, season 3 she got bullied by Mercury and got out of the fight with Torchwick through sheer luck, she didn't even talk to Cinder. Jaune talked to Cinder more than her.
Honestly, to Ruby, other than witnessing Pyrrha dying, her and Cinder have had literally no meaningful interaction at all. Cinder is obsessed with someone who should barely even know of Cinders existence.
I’m still surprised Ruby even knew Cinders name at the end of Volume 3. In fact, I don’t think she should have unless they “interacted offscreen” at Beacon.
Tbh, I would love if they added a flashback of them at Beacon just to flesh it out, even if just a little.
I mean to be fair cinder really should have more interaction with jaune seeing as it was his love interest she killed. But I agree that for her having this self proclaimed obsession with killing her, they really haven't had enough interactions.
18:03 “There’s no relationship between RWBY and the bad guys.”
This is something that really disappoints me with the show. The thing is that there can be interesting stuff between RWBY and the villains, even if they haven’t even interacted yet. Let’s use Yang and Hazel as an example.
Hazel hates Ozpin because of the death of his sister. As we are shown, Yang cares a lot for Ruby, even helping raise her when their father shut down after Summer’s death, so Yang could easily understand where Hazel’s hatred is coming from but could also disagree with his actions because she knows the guilt that Ozpin carries about the state of Remnant because she knows about Ozpin’s past while Hazel doesn’t.
Additionally, we could see some great fights between Yang and Hazel considering how the former’s semblance is about taking damage to throw it back stronger and the latter’s semblance is about not feeling pain, meaning that they have to think tactically because Yang’s attacks won’t hinder by Hazel due to him not feeling the pain of the attacks but at the same time any hits he lands on Yang make’s her attacks stronger when she uses her semblance.
Sam Jones Now I think apart of that does work conceptually, Hazel and Yang has potential to be decent foils too each other, I just have to disagree with some things you say.
I doubt that Yang would really be understanding towards Hazel even with his motivations in mind because despite crying about how he hates Ozpin for what happened with his sister, he’s *still* helping Salem commit terrorism and Cinder herself implies to everyone that Hazel killed numerous Huntsmen in Mistral on Salem’s orders, showing that he has no problem putting other families through the same pain he went through. He also works with people like Cinder, a sadistic monster who killed Pyrrha, a student who was likely near his sister’s age, and Tyrian, a psychopathic serial killer who murders innocent people on a regular basis. With all of that in mind I doubt that Yang would even feel sympathetic towards him in the slightest as, his methods clearly aren’t the *only* things wrong with Hazel’s actions. Especially since the “role” Ozpin played in her sister’s death was only that he accepted her application to Beacon Academy, she only died on a training mission which Ozpin can’t reasonably be blamed for, so with the information we have at the moment, Hazel’s hatred of Ozpin is pretty illogical and doesn’t offer much in terms of sympathy.
In terms of abilities your not keeping some things in mind. Hazel’s Semblance is simply *numbing* pain, he can’t feel any pain when he gets hurt, but that doesn’t mean he can’t get hurt. Pain numbing very is a different thing from invulnerability. Weiss displayed this by impaling Hazel with her Queen Lancer summon when he was outside the room because Nora threw him out. So with Yang’s Semblance she could hurt him well.
Ryan Carson you make some good points as well and I do think that I may have forgotten some stuff from Volume 5 since I haven’t watched too much of it recently and I think that I should clear somethings up.
While Yang doesn’t agree with Hazel’s actions and associating himself with people like Cinder, she could understand that he’s still working through the grief of losing his sister but that he’s also doing it in the worst way possible. She could draw on her own experiences of loss and abandonment and argue that she knows what it’s like to lose someone, but that she can’t keep dwelling on what happened otherwise she can’t move forward with her life and that doing something like going on a revenge quest against Ozpin is not a good idea, even if she can at least see where he may be coming from because she could see an angrier version of herself doing that if Ruby died in similar circumstances. Let’s not forget that we’ve seen Yang get easily frustrated or angry numerous times in the series, which has been used against her. For example, when she got angry at Adam stabbing Blake, she jumped in to fight him without assessing the situation and was immediately knocked out after Adam chopped her arm off. So to sum up, Yang doesn’t agree with Hazel’s actions or his motivations, but she can understand that he’s dealing with grief but in the worst way possible. It’s kind of like Anakin Skywalker’s fall to the dark side in Star Wars: we may not agree with his actions after he becomes a Sith, but we can understand why he did it, even though it’s clear that he was manipulated by Darth Sidious.
Additionally, Nora also mentioned how Hazel’s aura regenerates extremely quickly, which we saw when Hazel got stabbed by Weiss’ lancer summon but was then seen back up again to fight Ruby, Weiss, Blake and the others with Emerald and Mercury while Yang had gone down to the vault after Raven, Cinder and Vernal. So Yang’s attacks could do a lot of damage but then she would have to adapt when Hazel’s aura kicks in and starts healing the wounds.
One of the biggest problems with the show in general is the fact that we don’t know shit about what most of the villains want beyond the vaguest possible level.
Salem is probably the one we know the most about. She hates Ozpin and also wants to die, so she’s trying to kamikaze the planet.
Tyrian wants to... kill things, I guess? He’s got this whole “worshipping Salem” thing going on, but we don’t know why he wants to be on Salem’s side beyond that.
Watts is jealous that Ironwood chose Penny’s father over him, which is a fine motivation for a villain, though I don’t think that translates into “violent murderer willing to aid in the destruction of the world.”
Cinder wants power. That’s it, that’s all we know. We don’t know why she wants power, nor what she hopes to accomplish once she has it.
Hazel hates Ozpin because he views him as responsible for his sister’s death. I actually like this motivation a lot, mostly because unlike some villains *COUGH* Adam *COUGH* we actually see what their motivations imply. Ozpin sending the students into a forest full of deadly monsters without any apparent safety measures was irresponsible and could easily have resulted in death if our heroes weren’t so capable.
That said, I still wish we knew more about Hazel’s relationship with his sister
Fuck Adam’s motivation, though. His whole thing is “Faunus are discriminated against therefore we should kill all humans.” I mean, sure, he’s a psychotic murderer, but the fact that the worst Faunus discrimination we’ve seen is “no Faunus allowed” signs makes it difficult to take Adam’s angry ramblings about reclaiming life for the Faunus as anything more than a childish temper tantrum for me.
So to amend my original statement, a recurring problem is that we barely know anything about what most villains want, and the ones we *do* know the motivations for, have fucking terrible motivations.
Almost every main villain in RWBY: "I hate Ruby"
Ruby: 'surprised pikachu face'
Maybe even use how Blake once followed Adam blindly to narratively parallel how Tyrian follows Salem. Like, that blindness is his hubris or something that Blake can now use to take him down? And, her shadow-y semblance could help against his scorpion tail.
And Weiss having a grudge against Watts for stuffing with the dust company (I don't remember what happened with Jacques and that stuff).
I'm just spit-balling an idea.
So... what you're saying is that Ironwood is the best character.
No new information here.
#ironwooddidnothingwrong #cyclopswasright
Fax
Me: *Waiting for Ruby to go on a Mystery Hunt in V9 regarding the truth about her mom brining along some other characters that she has influenced a bit and who are passionate about said influence so that she accepts the truth whether it be good or bad, challenging how she forces herself to a pillar of light all the time when she can't, and learn how to make her silver eyes stronger nevertheless*
Ironwood official body pillow when?
Facts
Twiins whole section about RWBY being so unimportant that they have to fight the AceOps is one of the main reasons why I think they (RWBY) should have lost that fight.
They get beat, locked up in cells, and are forced to watch as Salem shows up to wreck shop. Would have been an interesting opening to V8 to see them actually have to DO something to confront the main villain.
Yeah I was actually hoping for that. That they'd lose but break out and save the day. But nope. RT just has to make them look "super special" and "amazing" even if it makes no sense. Why have them win and leave only to turn around and come back? Why not just have them lose so that they're STILL in the Kingdom. They didn't have to write a scene with them leaving Atlas at all. You could have really heightened the drama of Volume 7 by making Team RWBY lose and get captured in addition to having JNR lose the Relic and Oscar. Then top it all off by having Salem show up. That would have been really tense. I swear they need to Twiins or Critter to proof read their scripts.
@@heyarnold7256 They're leaving the city of Atlas, but not the kingdom. They were going to Mantle.
@@MrRemicas It's difficult to tell. They still made it look like they were leaving. Which was annoying.
@@MrRemicas even then that's still not a good move because Penny is the maiden and the relic is in *Atlas*.
I understand this video
Jaune's arc spans way to much through the volumes. Ren got a whole arc for a volume. Team RWBY has lost focus.I totally agree
Jaune's arc would've been fine if Ruby played a role in it at all. In fact that would've given her a reason to actually care when Pyrrha died and a reason to go after Cinder. It's not strange for certain main characters to not have arcs themselves but participate in the arcs of others. I think RT genuinely has no idea what they want to do for RWBY. Aside from giving them a badass fight every now and then.
@@redx589 Ruby is messed up she used her silver eyes when Pyrrha died but didn't give a shit about it in volume 4
@@Uvixxx Ruby never even talked to Pyrrha that much. Yeah, they were Friends, but I only know that because the Show tells me!
I joked with a Friend that it would have made more Sense if Ruby and Pyrrha were in a romantic Relationship instead of Jaune, because then we could use the old "Protagonist unleashes new Powers because their Love Interest died" - Trope.
@@johannesseyfried7933 And Jaune is even worse Pryyha was already making moves on him but he was shitting over Weiss. All they had was one small kiss and he cried for 3 more volumes.
Games I disagree a show like rwby is supposed to have a good supporting cast and take some time to develop a good group of side characters.
The thing with team Jnr is the time they’ve had on screen before and after volume 4 hasn’t been productive enough to make us really feel any thing for them as characters like the show wants.
In a show like rwby if the main character a failing the side characters are supposed to pick up the slack .
I genuinely thought RWBY’s main characters were the team members of RWBY. The starring role being Ruby Rose the leader.
But after watching a few more volumes... I don’t know anymore. It should be easy to write a main character. Especially a main character team. Apparently not given this show.
@@Prushinthespirit Why do I feel more engaged with Fanon versions of Ruby than Canon Ruby?
*WHY?!*
Benjamin McNeil because fanon ruby is far better written then cannon ruby
Jaune is the main character now
the true Star jaunes is in a weird position in the first volume he had a whole arc in volume one and was looking to be the one of the main side characters .
@@benjaminmcneil574
Because they give her character. Cannon Ruby is a plastic cookie, while fannon Ruby is a actual cookie.
We all know who the real main character is.
Everyone's favorite bat faunus YUMMMMMMMMMMMA
Best comment so far
LMAO
*clapping* ... Who?
Yuma: "I am the best Character....BECAUSE I'M BATMAN!"
Haru Okumura Oh please, we all know who’s the *real* show stopper is: Trifa!
It seems that since volume 4 team RWBY has only been good for eye candy and shipping which I freaking hate. Ruby turns the giant dragon at the top of beacon tower to stone, but does she ever develop after that? Does she try to find out how to use those powers again and protect the people she cares about? Nope. Blake doesn't care about racism anymore and everyone is forgetting she's a faunus, Jacque is just deciding to ignore Weiss after she ran away and is now back in Atlas, the press doesn't care about Weiss anymore for some reason. Are they not curious why Weiss is no longer the heiress? And Yang is just there, what has she done again? What are her motivations? Is she just there to love her cat girlfriend? Okay.
It hurts because it's true.
This is why I gave up on RWBY since the end of Volume 3
I think the writers are waiting for a good opportunity for Ruby to figure out how to use her eyes. Opportunities like when she faces Salem. Just straight up giving her the _silver eye powers at will_ will make things a lot easier for her, which may or may not be more entertaining to you. I have my reasons to think it wouldn't be, such as, what if the lack of growth IS part of the plot of the show?
@@dashua1735 I think lack of growth should never be part of the plot for the main character because it makes the character worse. And her growing doesn't have to be with silver eyes. Why not have her train to fight better or learn a cool move from someone? Why not put her leadership skills at a test(and v6 doesn't count they did a bad job of it and she didn't grow afterwards)? Or have her do something that actually affects the plot? As the main character she should be affecting the world around her the most along with the rest of team RWBY, making the enemies actually see them as a threat and not ignore them like they did in V7
The little graphic with Weiss learning Summoning as if she were in Pokemon SENT ME.
Great discussion as always!👍
Just some inconsequential thoughts.
My issue with Aceops. They are the strongest huntsmen in Atlas. By those words, they all scale up to winter and clover and robyn, who all scale up to tyrian and qrow. Marrow being conflicted is good. Rwby being captured but escaping or just running away are also good. Maybe it takes 2 or 3 to take out 1 member, but they can't just be better than huntsmen who call them "kids" especially after only 2 years from starting at beacon, a 4 year school. And you can't tell me them fighting in the wild would make them grow much faster, because if so, then Ren's village must have had literally no warriors when that grimm came or Yang shouldn't be able to beat those bandits, which travel. Vernal and raven are the only bandits who can fight? Ssf.
I feel the same. The whole concept of "these people are literally the best of the best" but now they get their asses handed to them by some teenagers that they've been training for like, what, a month? Feels so stupid. No way team RWBY is going to become better than their teachers after a month. If this was the case, Qrow wouldn't even have had to show up to fight Tyrian in V4, because Ruby would be better than him already since he used to be her teacher. But that's not what happened because it makes NO SENSE. Withoug any correlation I'm equally pissed about the Qrow+Tyrian vs Clover scene at the end of the season because there's no way in hell that Qrow would work together with his enemy just because he was a little bit mad at his new friend. That's not the kind of character that Qrow has been made out to be imo. Surely he would have worked together with Clover to get Tyrian back in handcuffs and then resolved their conflict after? But no. UGHHHHHH.
YanelArez the thing is Qrow wasn’t even upset with Clover Robyn started that fight and Qrow was sucked into for reasons I still don’t understand
Like the part where Qrow says it always ends up like this in reference to his bad luck this wasn’t bad luck you could stop fighting right now beat up the mass murderer working for grimm satan and the same thing would have happened minus clovers death
Qrow literally had nothing to gain from fighting Clover
@@majesticleviathan3898 HISHE: RWBY, Volume 7:
Clover: "Robyn is hurt. We need to get her to a Hospital."
Qrow: "Makes Sense. If we Fight each other in the Tundra at Night, during a Grimm Invasion, we are both going to die, no matter who wins."
Tyrian: "Hey! I have been waiting all Episode for this Fight! You can't rob me of the Flight Entertainment!"
*Clover and Qrow punch his Lights out*
Clover: "The only Thing you are going to watch for the next 15 Years is Kitten TV. From inside a Prison Cell.
Now, do you wanna carry the crazy Person or Tyrian?"
Rack-and-pinion This is exactly what bothers me the most of the volume. Especially since we never actually saw them be trained (weaknesses pointed out and improved upon). I tried to let that resentment go when someone explained that the fight was good because it shows flaws of the actual Aesops fables the AceOps are based on, which is why they lose. But I'm still annoyed they lost. I went into v7 expecting more Winter,honestly, and it'd make more sense if instead of AceOps we got Winter's team
Not to necessarily condone the plot point (because CRWBY haven't done the most stellar job building it up and establishing the worldbuilding necessary for it to land the way they wanted it) but my interpretation of it is this: huntsmen and huntresses who have both their aura and semblances unlocked are automatically the most elite warriors, they're like Nen users from HxH. Team RWBY are supposed to be like Gon, Killua, Kurapika etc in that they're just special prodigy tier fighters with a huge capacity for growth - even from their very first trailers they were clearly supposed to be pretty high grade by the standard of the world (Weiss killing a composite gigas in hers, Yang making what was inferred to be an established and credible criminal operation in Vale look like chumps, etc).
I don't think the jump from team RWBY being where they were to being on the level of the best huntsmen around was intended to be as large as it came off, but that's the problem: team RWBY have been distinguished as the protagonists so little that it came off as a HUGE gap. I think the idea they were going for is before they started rebuilding after vol 4 they were all emotionally and mentally unprepared for the war with Salem more than anything, which with better execution I could've maybe bought, but with the way they've done it something about them beating the AceOps just didn't track and people have noticed. They haven't adequately explored the growth in experience and skill the team are supposedly meant to have undergone in the time since vol 3 - I mean, Weiss is basically their most powerful member but she's lost pretty much every fucking fight she's ever had. Vernal, a minor character whose semblance was never even shown, made her look like an idiot as recently as volume 5. How are we supposed to buy that they're on the level of the best around now when the most OP person on team RWBY got handled like a kid just a couple of volumes ago? The writers needed to pick a lane and start establishing that RWBY were leveling up as long ago as volume 4 and they just didn't. It's so disappointing.
The only exception I'd maybe argue for is Yang. She had an actual arc (barebones as it was) about fixing the flaws in her combat style from vols 1-3 and fighting Adam evenly already established her on a pretty high level, so I actually didn't find it to be a huge pill to swallow that she advanced to elite huntress level in so short a time. But the others? Like I said, Weiss is OP but she's gotten destroyed in basically all her fights and seems to just hide behind her summon now. Blake still couldn't really handle Adam before Yang stepped in, and honestly what impressive 1v1 fights has she even had? Ruby, same boat, she's the least experienced of all of them yet all the focus of her growth has been on harnessing her silver eyes rather than on becoming a more competent huntress. It's a shame because I still enjoy this show and genuinely do love some of the characters, but even just small tweaks here and there would've made the entire journey to now so much less frustrating.
*I’m so early, Ruby was still the protagonist*
Do you mean so late??
I am also just stumble into this show just recently. At first I kinda interested (the eps is not that short to binge), but then the comments makes me curious that I research here and there, and left the show at chapter 3 of season 1
Sorry
I love how she finds the flaws of the show and rips it apart, only because she cares about the show just like the rest of us. You point out things in this show that makes it fall so flat and it's so satisfying to hear you do that. 🙌🏿🙌🏿
I hurt because I love
@@twiinsiink Just like Adam!
...
...
...
*I have sinned-*
@@twiinsiink keep doing what you doing, your videos are like music to my ears 🙌🏿
In reality, Team JNPR over Team RWBY any day. JNPR's story as a team and individuals are so much stronger and more interesting. I like Team RWBY, don't get me wrong. But, from a story standpoint, JNPR is more interesting. From Pyhrra's death and struggle with that in volume 4-6, Jaune sneaking into Beacon and coming from some great line of heroes, even Ren and Nora's unneeded but totally awesome backstory. They have stuff events involving them and have background to their characters, and it is phenomenal.
I would have to agree. Team RWBY is great. But I gotta say Team JNPR is just as good. I hope next Volume they have an awesome fight with someone, like RWBY with the Ace Ops
I really don't gave a shit about Rwby and JNPR.
JNPR! JNPR!
they should have just made yang jaune sister (who would take over pyyrha place in the team) weiss a brainwashed villan blake an exile ruby? screw ruby aleast make her a lone wolf the same energy of red trailer ruby should have been this slient geeky girl than a brian malfunction 12 yr old
To further add to your point about Goku it isn't just that he (mostly) is the only one strong enough to beat up the main baddy but for two reasons:
1: He actually fullfils the role of a flat character; it's because of him people like Piccolo, Vegeta, Yamcha and Tien are now good guys.
2. For the most part the world is in danger because of him and the good guys win for the most because of him: Vegeta and Nappa came to Earth because of Goku helping Piccolo kill Raditz leading to the gang mentioning the Dragon Balls, Frieza went to Namek because of the Dragon Balls being mentioned, Frieza went to Earth because he was salty of getting his ass kicked by Goku on Namek, the androids and Cell were created because Dr Gero wanted revenge on Goku for destroying the Red Ribbon army, Beerus decided to go on his search for the Super Saiyan God on Earth because of Whis telling him how Goku defeated Frieza and Majin Buu, Zamasu decided to finally enact the Zero Mortal Plan because Goku clapped his cheecks, the Tournament of Power became a thing because Goku reminded the two Zenos of it, Gohan wouldn't have achieved Super Saiyan 2 if Goku hadn't planned for it, Goku could have killed Fat Buu as a Super Saiyan 3 which would have ended the Buu Saga way earlier but he decided against it to prepare the next generation so they can defend the Earth when he was gone, Beerus would have destroyed the Earth had it not being for Goku, Infinite Zamasu would have won had Goku not befriended Zeno, Universe 7 would have lost the Tournament of Power had it not been for Goku and all he learned from his friends and family, Gogeta wouldn't have been there to defeat Broly had Goku not being there.
In conclusion, Goku actually does shit to both advance and help end the plot, unlike Team RWBY.
Yes. See, Goku progresses the story along with driving the previous villains/antagonists turn into protagonists/heroes now, Goku in Dragon Ball was kind of the same but he trained and grew and he battled on and on towards Dragon Ball Z, a man that wants to protect the planet and all the beings and Vegeta is the best case of a person that changed by Goku even though Vegeta was responsible for some deaths and destruction on earth, It was Goku's kind nature and heart that allowed Vegeta a chance to escape from death, this in turn showed Vegeta that there are merciful people in the world and because of that we get a glimpse of Vegeta and what his life might might've been as we get shown by frieza as he served the man that destroyed his race. This was just the start that Goku had given Vegeta giving him time to ask questions about whether Goku was merciful, kind or just an idiot. That is a static character that affects others in the right way. Ruby doesn't do any of that as been shown recently maybe in the earlier volumes but not recently.
Its interesting because with Goku he has the opposite problem as ruby. He does way too much to contribute to the plot and the shine almost always goes to him. Which isnt normally a bad thing but fact of the matter is because of DB's over-saturation it takes the gravity away from Goku's importance because the narrative always bends over backwards to have him do it even in the most bland ways possible at least later into the series. But at the very least, thats way better then ruby who is just a hollow representation of the endearing human spirit.
@@KaiserShounen
DBS and DBGT suffer from that problem the most, and sadly Vegeta fans will never get what they want.
@@ollin-tonatiuh6418 Precisely my point. Dumb fun shows like dragon ball should know when to not overstay their welcome. Or take the Lupin/Jojo where they actually get creative with each installment
@@KaiserShounen
Toriyama did want to originaly end Dragon Ball with the Frieza Saga, personally i would have liked if it ended with the Cell Saga but that's just my personal bias because i consider Cell the best Dragon Ball villain period.
That video resonated within my very soul. God I don't care about RWBY anymore, I feel bad because I used to love them but they were benched for most of the story. When I cared more about Oscar (who was there for 4 volumes yet did more than Ruby in 7) I realized how RT is bad is at handling the cast.
I think so too.
I have to agree
Yes. Except I personally never cared for team RWBY. I'm just incredibly apathetic towards them, sometimes even dreading or disliking them because I dont think they're worthy of the screen time they get and would prefer following another character. Sure, there have been certain elements that could have made me like them in the past. But it never did, that spark just never happened and it's just sad because of how much more I care for the side characters even if they're dead or have been side lined.
@@Mica_T Honestly with the shit they've done in v7 I'm starting to dislike them as well. I only care about what Oscar does (he was separated from the cast but judging from the sneak peek it won't last long. God forbid the heroes be separated for too long and be allowed to do their own thing).
Right now I used to love RWBY back when monty was still alive but after he died.. RWBY just became shit...
AWW YEAH ANOTHER TWIINS IINK VIDEO
Heck yeah!!!!!
TheFloofArtist The Floofy one is here!
FLOOF!
MY DUDE.
Floof!
"there is no moment where SUDDENLY ironwood starts acting way different out of nowhere"
*volume 8: allow me to introduce myself*
I really agree...
In the beginning of this show I loved Ruby, she was a fun quirky character. As time went on and she literally did less nothing, I skipped to liking Yang the best, but slowly her character died aswell.
I truly want to like these characters. I love this show and I'm not going to drop it, but I just REALLY NEED, CRWBY to step it up.
I am a young writer, but even I understand how to make a damn protagonist.
I know some things have been happening in RT lately, but that's no excuse to let a show that had so much potential go to SHIT.
If you need time. Take time. I'd rather have the show postponed and actually have good content than have to continuously drag my feet through this dead plot.
I am going to try and hold onto to hope for Vol. 8, but there are really so many things they need to improve to really get this show back on the rails, I'd be shocked if they did it.
Edit: thanks for the heart! Sorry the edit in the paragraph I made, made it go away 😅
Honestly, Ruby was only the protagonist from the Red Trailer until Yang was introduced.
So what we've learned here today is that the villains are actually closer to being protagonists than team RWBY is.
Villains Act, Heroes React is a classic trope, especially in western media - the villain has to do bad things to give the heroes a reason to stop them. However, Team RWBY does not react to the villains unless RWBY and co are immediately being attacked. Since the heroes rarely encounter the villains, they rarely get into those immediate reactions until the finale. So this show is more like 'Heroes Wait, Villains Plot, and then they both maybe tussle in Act III before someone else defeats them'
@@andrewlance3898 I find one of the funniest moments of this trope being slightly reversed to be JoJo Part Five.
Giorno, the Protagonist of the part, is pretty much the ONLY JoJo to act, while the others in other parts reacted. He goes after the Villain of his own free will, rather than being forced into it by the villains actions making things personal. He's a Hero who's very much proactive, despite being the quietest JoJo of all.
Which is fitting, given that one of his father's is DIO, a villain who most certainly acted.
@@benjaminmcneil574 That sounds like the variant of the trope: 'Heroes Act, Villains Hinder'. Think of Journey to the West or the Wizard of Oz. Xuanzang and Dorothy don't act because of some grand master villain provoking them. They act because they both have a goal (get the scrolls from India/return home to Kansas) and the villains (the various demons, gods, and spirits Xuanzang faces/the monsters, the Wicked Witch, and the deceitful Wizard that Dorothy faces) are obstacles on their way to that goal.
At this point, I wish they were. I'd sure as hell love to follow Salem instead of Team RWBY.
Hey Arnold idk if you watch a RUclipsr Vexedviewer but his top moment from volume 7 was (and I quote)
“Salem appears to hopefully kill everyone”
Which is a plot point I’d love to see at this point. Team Salem >>>team r(ew)by
The show seems to exist purely from a business perspective. As a result, it has limited effort placed into it with writers chasing whatever idea they most currently care about. Constant retcons, plot holes, and sudden new contrivances are a result of the writers trying to force the world to change over and over so they can write their newest idea only to have their previous ideas clash with it because they don't keep track of their constant changes or additions.
This show exists to make money. To make money, they need to please an audience. The writers go with whatever they want, regardless of circumstances, and try to cram in as much short-sighted "fan service" to make up for their lack of effort. The show is inevitably going to continue its downhill spiral because it's not about creativity or passion, its about whatever RT thinks will brings in the most money requiring the least effort.
Example: 5 seasons is spent on building connection between Sun ane Blake, with explicit flirtations in early seasons. Show starts to dip in viewership so Sun and Blake dismiss their bond as though there was nothing ever there, conflicting with said flirtations, and Blake is quickly paired with Yang the following season. After recieving backlash over such an abrupt change, they try to please the fans they weren't pandering too by having other characters get annoyed by their relationship in the show. If they were truly trying to write that story, they could have had genuine interactions between Sun and Blake acknowledging the previous chemistry and naturally writing in a reason their feelings have changed (they grew in different directions as a result of plot occurences for example) and then reintroduce Blake to the group and naturally rebuild the bond between her and Yang and grow it to a romance over time. Instead, because RT was losing viewers, we got 5 seasons of growth scrapped to be replaced with a pandering attempt which flopped and was followed by an attempt to "try and please everyone".
Whatever RWBY had has been dead for a long time. Sad because I really liked the show once.
This is exactly how I feel about this series. Everytime I try to watch the later volumes it feels like I'm trying to be sold something. Its a shittier version of Fate at this point
@@normielegion1949 Great way of describing it.
@Games From what I've seen, all the DVDs for the show have content on them that's literally just glorifying RT, having nothing to do with RWBY. Like there are bonus features that's just like "RT at Conventions" and stuff where RT literally advertises themselves or is self congratulating.
@@normielegion1949 Same to me. Heck, I didn't even want to rewatch the first 3 volumes because of this shit.
I remember people hating sun and the relationship with Blake and I was confused because they had the most fun relationship out of everyone because they are opposite from each other which could of been interesting for the story given how Blake is about the racism and all
even if we are gonna get a 'ruby development' CAN WE PLEASE ffs have a backstory about her mom in it? Hell maybe a flashback to Tai's team? It'd be real nice to get some intel on the lady who caused most of this RWBY shit instead of just forgetting about her for almost 4 volumes, and only bringing her up in silver eye triggers and some bitch lady saying 'you sound like your dead MOM haha NERD' to Ruby when she's in distress
So true. They've got so many unfinished threads that, at this point, focusing on any one would be bad because then people would want answers to *thread xyz* instead. But you're definitely right. That stuff needs to be discussed.
Why though? What we know is really all we need. Raven left Tai, Summer remained to help Tai raise Yang, Tai and Summer fell in love, they had Ruby, Summer died while Ruby was still young, Tai raised his two daughter with his brother in law. There's no point to the story in learning more about them.
Each time Summer is brought up, there is NO BUILD UP. We aren't made to care about her.
@@Midnight-Starfish They placed *FAR* too much importance on Summer having met Salem in this recent Volume for that to be even reasonably true.
@@benjaminmcneil574 Summer met Salem? That is a stupid idea on their part. Not everything needs to be this grandiose reason for why things happen. Who cares if Summer met Salem? Hazel works for her and he's about as important as Cardin, and he's still alive! Summer has been dead since the red trailer; she shouldn't be important to the story other than motivation for Ruby becoming a huntress.
This is how rwby is in a nutshell.
I ruby rose decide to make decision and no one question my decisions Ieven iff they’re really dumb.
When her plan doesn’t work.
Oh no I messed up but now it’s for someone else to fix my mistake and no one loses trust in me because I’m the leader.
And then Oscar gets shot while ruby doesn’t even feel the backlash of her plan failing.
It hurts because it's accurate.
Even back in Vol. 2 - Team RWBY uses their amateur detective skills to try to stop Roman and the White fang at Mountain Glenn, except no, they end up _provoking_ Roman into accelerating the plan. There are serious consequences -for Ozpin, who allowed them to go to MG in the first place.
Next volume, either Yang or Ruby bragged about saving the city. sigh
Basically everything bad that happens is in part thanks to Ruby rose ,her incompetence and bad writing.
In the plot she’s never affected by her mistakes, people still trust her, and becuase of this, she’s a horrible leader. It would be nice to see Jaune or anyone point out to ruby that most of what happened was her fault and that they are not going to follow her. That way she learns that her role is a big responsibility and she can be punished by a mistake. Maybe have interaction with ozpin/Oscar about being a leader instead of being a diet Jaune x pyhrra plot?
Team RWBY: [Makes Roman rampage through a crowded highway in a mech suit, crashing, attacking, and flipping tons of cars, thus injuring and killing hundreds of people]
Team RWBY: "We did it, we saved Vale"
@@TheLonelySkeleton so glad to see I'm not the only who noticed that their shoddy detective skills caused that fight in the first place
Ensemble casts absolutely can work, but in RWBY's case, there seems to be far too much character development taking place off screen or handled in such a way as to retcon previous character traits and development for the sake of a plot. It's very much reminding me of the later seasons of Game of Thrones, where characters just forgot their own development and led us to so many unsatisfying arc resolutions, ruining many popular characters in the process.
They do love putting development off screen for some reason! And it's weird cuz like, THAT'S the funnest part of giving your character an arc
@@twiinsiink Hell look at Bumblebee where most of Yang and Blake's relationship is they become close friends OFFSCREEN, Blake spends most of her time with manic pixie monkey boy to the point she barely feel like a part of team RWBY, and most of their reconciliation is OFFSCREEN. But apparently I'm supposed to believe this is a deep relationship.
They probably should have just mad this an anthology.
I think we should change the show's name to avoid any confusion.
Here's one: The Grimm Fanfiction.
I know, I'm a genius.
Seriously though, how _would_ you guys rename RWBY?
"RBPB, but mostly everyone else" would be mine.
"The legend of Oz" or something like that
I guess "Remnant"
I would just call it Remnant
Remnant, boom everyone's the main character
Thank you, I’ve been annoyed by this for years. Something else I have noted with team Rwby passivity problem is wall other girl character’s take the spotlight from team Rwby by acting with in the narrative, it is usually male characters that gets develop, depth or plot decisions. John, ironwood and Qrow have throughout the story actual felt like main character leading a story. Ruby has never done anything in the story that had to be her, outside of just so happening to be somewhere or her deus ex machina silver eyes. It really frustrates me. I just wanted to share this.
Agreed. And given all that, it's annoying to see RT brag about having "strong female leads" when they keep letting the male characters do everything important and the girls are just there. Look at the latest seasons and its everywhere.
It's not even really a male problem imo. It's because the whole concept of the "strong female lead" has been completely ruined. By the modern definition and the way the phrase is used it limits female characters to one-dimensional power fantasies. Writers are boxed in. Scared to write female characters as anything less than "super awesome" with "amazing" powers and no real problems. RT isn't concerned with anything but making Team RWBY look "powerful" and "cool" to give the illusion of them being great and important characters, but when you look at Volume 7 what did they really accomplish? The beat up law enforcement for trying to do their job and the narrative pats them on the back for it. Thats it. Like I said RT is more concerned with the superficial idea of strong females. They make them good fighters. But forget to give them any depth.
@@heyarnold7256 That's a really good point.
@@bigbadgammagnome So true.
@@bigbadgammagnome What a trainwreck, no pun intended. 🚂
Aww the thumbnail is so cute! Have you considered making stickers?
On the topic of the video, I thinks it's kinda disappointing how they have MANY interesting characters but can't make them an interesting b-plotline that can eventually converge with the story the girls are supposed to be leading. You say a lot that JNR should just honestly not be there, and you're right! In my opinion, they should have the World of Remnants replaced or something with shorts showing snippets of them if they were journeying elsewhere carrying Ozpin's mission. And really that's a small solution. They firstly have to cut the cast now that the whale has broke loose. I was thinking perhaps have RWBY split up and lead their own small groups to safety then converge and confront Salem or something.
0:55 Oh god that one images there's so many people this show needs to trim the cast down even more
0:55
inb4 a they pull a Deepground and add more 15 to the main cast.
@@ProxyDoug Oh god..
I already have Trouble with giving six Characters equal amounts of Focus in my Story, I'm not sure how I would handle THAT many!
They better get rid of ORNJ.
Can I get to be the protagonist next volume?
Absolutely!
Yaay!
You'll do great!
Mom says it’s MY turn to be the protagonist!
I'd make a great RWBY protagonist, I have eye-catching hair and procrastinate constantly.
'Why are we wasting so much time' Because for some reason the writers are under the impression they're writing Game of Thrones.
Ah I loved your rewrite at the end. It felt way more connected and meaningful than what we actually saw on screen. Once again RWBY has all the right elements RIGHT THERE but doesn’t put them in the right place to utilise their actual strengths. I love that you point this out so effectively, it really makes me miss what the show could have been.
Okay RUclips you knew I had been anticipating this vid and you turn off my notifications for twiins? Wow.
14:16 Here you go everyone! For those who want to listen to that beautifully explained Ironwood sequence multiple times :)
Your rewrite is so good!!! I love the idea of Weiss fighting Cinder especially since she got stabbed by her as well. It would be good to make Weiss want some form of revenge against Cinder since the woman impaled her. Having Weiss fight while angry would give an excuse for her to get beat up during the fight and prompt Ruby to use her eyes to save the Schnee sisters.
Another Weiss fight, with her in the loser corner...
Benjamin McNeil if that’s what it takes to make the story better then it’s worth her 100th loss
@@Henry-hm7kc Make the story better by having the protagonist that always loses...lose again?
Are we really that desperate?
Benjamin McNeil it doesn’t have to be that way, I’m just working off of what Twiins came up with. Weiss winning could work even without Ruby’s intervention. They could have her deal a powerful attack on Cinder which causes her to retreat and THEN Ruby comes in to see Weiss and Winter injured, and Penny crouched by Freya.
Weiss is my favorite character in the show, I don’t want her to lose a fight, but if she has to lose again to improve the story then I won’t really care.
Eh, I kinda like that idea but at the same time the entire haven “battle” was so cringe and weirdly paced that I try not to think about it. Especially the cut aways and characters talking in the middle of an “epic battle”
About the Flat Character Arcs bit: Yes Ruby isn't exactly going through one but you can still tell thats the kind of character she's meant to be. Or rather it's kind of character arc thats best suited to her. Similar to how Jaune is best suited to go through the "Heroes Journey" style arc. Plus, even Flat Arc characters still have some bits of positive development here and there. Monkey D. Luffy as you mention is a Flat Arc character yes but he still develops as a leader over the course of the series without changing too much of his personality. A character doesn't just have to have one type of arc. Sometimes they can be a mix of multiple Arcs. I think the youtuber TotallyNotMark has a video on why Frieza is a combination of the Flat Arc and the Negative Arc.
Actually I think Twiins iink was wrong there. Ruby IS clearly a Flat Arc character. She helps change Jaune, Qrow, Oscar, Cordovin etc. I mean it's extremely poorly written and barely accomplishes anything but you can still tell thats the intention. Especially with all the speeches she tries to give people. This is clearly a character they "want" to be capable of changing hearts and minds. It just falls flat(heh) because of all the piss poor writing.
Red x The issue there is that unlike characters like Monkey D. Luffy, Ruby doesn’t have enough moments to show off her leadership skills. She’s usually always breaking *away* from her team rather than actually *working* with them. Also I’m not even sure if that’s what they’re *trying* to do because the direction they want the story and Ruby’s character to go is… unclear to say the least. She sometimes has moments indicating that the things that she seen (Pyrrha dying, Penny being torn to shreds, her mother’s death) are actually getting to her and that her cheerful surface is just a facade she uses to hide her trauma and moments where they kinda just have her be cheerful and hopeful when it’s time for her to make a hero speech about never giving up or something. I’m not even sure where Ruby can even go from here, she’s bogged down by so many issues at this point that I’m not even sure if it’s possible to completely save her character. Honestly I think maybe Ruby could’ve been more interesting if the series stayed with the original premise of “monster slayer academy.” I mean with that premise alone and the initial set up you could do various things with Ruby related to how she develops as a character, and other characters probably could’ve been better handled if the plot was actually about that, the White Fang could’ve actually been important instead of goons that Salem herself doesn’t really need. The whole “save the world from the evil Grimm lady” direction doesn’t do great things for her character since she herself have little emotional investment in it while characters like Jaune and Ozma actually have more emotional investment in the plot, so much so you have to question why *they* aren’t the main characters. Ruby as a character seems to be a passenger in her own story and the saddest part about that was that she had potential to be more than that.
"Or rather it's kind of character arc thats best suited to her. Similar to how Jaune is best suited to go through the "Heroes Journey" style arc.'
Except it looks like Ruby only got a flat character arc becuase Jaune got the "Hero's Journey" pretty much handed to him despite being nothing more than a glorified side character the show wastes too much time on.
@@heyarnold7256 Thats a really great point. Totally forgot about that but yeah you can tell thats what they're trying to do it just never lands properly.
@@ryancarson6962 Really excellent post. I think you pretty much summed up everything wrong with her character. You also touched on one of my other complaints about the show. The main plot. The whole "save the world from the evil Grimm lady" storyline just really bogs down the entire narrative. It ties things down and restricts the story from being everything it can be. The writers can't explore any of their ideas or flesh out the world because they always have to deal with the main plot.
And this is why Ironwood and Ozpin are my favorite characters. They actually matter in the story and do stuff to advance the plot. Their characters are also more fleshed out than team rwby's tbh.
Present a problem to team rwby and they'd all probably provide the same answer. Present that same problem to Ironwood and Ozpin and you'll get a clash of ideals between the two. These two feel much more like actual unique characters. Our main characters are like carbon copies of each other with just different mannerisms and voices.
It's a shame they male Ironwood the big baddie now, only because many fans were on his side.
Ah yes our definitly interesting and developed main team:
Title Character
Daddy issues
And Fan Favorite couple
Ruby should've had an emotional breakdown at seeing her good friend alive again.
Yang should've been adamantly AGAINST LYING to Ironwood because she felt grateful for her arm.
Blake should've been active in analyzing the Faunus in Atlesian society and trying to improve their situation.
Weiss should've had much more nuanced and careful interactions with her father, brother, sister AND mother.
Someone on Reddit said it best: miles and Kerry were in charge of writing team JPNR n never really got out of it. Honestly cutting out those 3 would help ALOT
They write JNPR so much I doubt anyone's ever written for RWBY.
"Blake and Yang don't get to do anything.
Twiins iink. Are you forgetting when they gave classified military information to a woman stealing from the military whom they only know for being praised by the vandal in episode 2 and almost attack Yang's family for not telling her what she wanted to know?
I really should make that video on Robyn, but that would involve going back and watching her scenes.
Edit: Oh she mentioned it.
Mom said it's my turn to be the protagonist
This is the best comment so far
21:23 ...I didn't even realize he wasn't invited... I hardly feel bad for Oscar about Ospin more than likely taking over his body at this point. It's the way the writers treat him that's the real tragedy of his character.
It's weird that the team with the most growth is the one where one of the VAs is a lead writer. Hmmmmm...
Oh my goodness that's just a coincidence... Pay no attention to the miles luna behind the curtain!
Lol, on a side note I heard he was forced to leave the company. So they're going to have to recast that character.
RWBY has a very similar problem that Bleach had during it's run in which the main character doesn't really wants anything, while other series like One Piece or Naruto, they are actually striving to be the best in what they do. So they just wait for the plot to come to them like Tokyo when Godzilla thinks people are enjoying themselves too much.
And it's not even completely their problem, but in the fact that the show already completed their arcs. If we go back and watch what their goals are, you see that the two sisters want to kill Grimm and have adventures, Weiss wants to be the SDC's CEO and Blake wants...equality(?). But then things changed. Yang decided that finding her mother was the most important thing, Blake decided that reforming the White Fang was the first step to making the world a better place and Weiss is disowned, but Ruby just stayed on the same path because reasons.
Then over the past 4 volumes, each of the girls were confronted with the things they wanted the most, Yang have a heart to heart with Raven and she's just gone, Blake confronted Adam and the White Fang was straight up murdered off the plot, and lastly, Weiss got her dad in prison and...that's it really. It wouldn't be me if I didn't mentioned that in each occasion, the people they had to confront were turned into bumbling idiots so that they can "own" them with a lazy speech, but I digress.
It's also arguable that Ren and Nora suffer from the same problem since they defeated the ghost from their past back in Volume 4.
What makes Ruby a weaker character than all of them is ultimately the fact world of Remnant itself is poorly explored. We've never seen the full potential of the strongest Huntsmen out there, they are not prestigious and you can't even say they are appreciated, so when she says she wants to be a huntsman, you don't really know what she's working towards. Apart from Qrow... but his character has been deconstructed so much in the later volumes, that there is nothing there that says he should be admired like she did in the early volumes.
What if Qrow never joined the party and only really showed up in Volume 6 taking the role Maria has or teaching Ruby about her silver eyes? He could have been the one to take the mantle of the grimm reaper, hell it could have been Maria's title before. If that title was heard across Remnant, Ruby could strive towards the goal of being the next Grimm Reaper.
Syd Fields has a quote in his book Screenplay: The Foundations of Screenwriting:
“Action is character. What a person does is what he is, not what he says.”
But you can't have your character act without purpose and that's what RWBY lacks.
Let's be reasonable with Bleach and Ichigo.
Ichigo isn't some teen that wants to be the very best or anything. He just wants to live his life in peace, yet like everything in existence keeps trying to fuck it up, so he has to keep getting strong enough to protect those he loves. He beats the bad guys and then tries to return to his life. While he obvious doesn't want to be powerless, he won't pick a fight unless someone gives him a damn good reasonn.
Ichiggo may be the most 'normal' main character of the Big 3, and the most realistic. He hadn't figured out what he wants for the far future near his graduation, something many teens struggle with during their high school years. His backstory isn't incredibly tragic like most shonen heroes, but tragic nonetheless; he lost his mom and felt like he was too weak to do anything about it, which spurred him to become stronger so he could protect whoever needed protecting, his family and friends most of all. He wasn't an idiot, and actually gets good grades when he attends school. And aside from being a crossbreed soul of like four different types, he really was just a normal kid with a normal life routine until Rukia butted into it, and the rest is history.
Ichigo wasn't built to be an ambitious character. Dude was genuinely just a normal guy who just wants to protect his family friends, and home town that everyone keeps wanting to wreck. He seriously had to work for all the powers he gets in order to do so, many that would kill him if he messed up. But he'd literally smash through the gets of hell, Soul Society, or Hueco Mundo for the sake of his cherished ones.
In a way, he was the most humble and grounded of the three, because he mostly had everything he wanted. The goal was to keep the flood of bad guys from taking it all away from him. And there were a LOT of them that tried. He's the Shonen Hero for the little guys.
I agree with your overall point, but Bleach gets so little respect these days, I felt the need to give my two cents.
@@benjaminmcneil574 Fair enough.
I just think it wasn't enough to carry the story for that long specially when you consider his arc might be the flattest of them all.
@@ProxyDoug Why not? That's a goal akin to freaking Spiderman of all things. To protect the weak. That forces him in situations that he either wants to be apart, doesn't want to or cant be a part of. In Ichigos case, there are things about himself he doesn't know and it is connected to other individuals that challenge his character, his views and his actions.
Look at Yuyuhakusho or Rurouni Kenshin. Neither character, wants anything specific and generic as some title. Yusuke didn't want anything, and sometimes didn't even know why he fights. Then you have Hxh, a long running anime where the MC wants to find his dad. A pretty boring goal, but it's how it's executed that matters. All them including Bleach execute their main characters well enough. I just don't get why people think anime MCs need some type of title driven goal. Hell not even Goku has a goal like that.
@@UnifiedEntity It really depends on the story. American super hero comic books like Spider-Man are more about maintaining a status quo rather than moving along and building on previous stories which is almost the opposite of how shonen stories like Bleach work.
Rurouni Kenshing specifically was about Kenshin trying to find ways to not fall back into his old ways of being a murderer and that in itself is a very compelling premise.
The problem with Ichigo is that he was increasingly relevant to a world he didn't cared about, but one that he was also intimately linked to, and his reluctancy to fight or have any interest in that world made him into a boring protagonist.
@@ProxyDoug Ichigo? Reluctant to fight? When was he ever reluctant to fight? And we dont need the MC to be interested in the world. There are many ways to learn about the world through other eyes or when the MC runs into a situation where he is questioning it such as Rukias execution and Byakuyas cold attitude.
Ichigo COULD learn about the corruption of Soul society, but why spoon feed it through Ichigo? We basically learn it from Aizen and Ginjo and Ichigos actions/goals came into conflict with that and caused a ripple effect for the better. Hes not trying to be a messiah with a massive message.
Did Yusuke or Gon ask about the world they were in? No. Gon learned his world because he was required to if he had any hopes of meeting his dad.
The Protagonist is Oscar/Opzin
@@bigbadgammagnome He...kept walking around Atlas with the Grimm-attracting, divine Relic hanging from his Belt. That's the whole Reason Neo could even get it!
They talk about how dangerous it is to keep walking around with the Relic on a Keychain, but they don't do anything about it!
Aren't there normal Safes in Atlas that you can put the Lamp in?!
@@johannesseyfried7933 Heck, Ruby even told him to not just hang around with it on his belt.
@@bigbadgammagnome He didn't really do anything significant, but given the story concept, he should be the protagonist. He has a direct relation to the plot and the hallmarks of a protag (inciting incident, etc) that team RWBY doesn't.
Erin Allen Thank you
Oscar? What does that boy even do other than talk to Ruby? Think about it. I mean sure he talked to Ironwood in the last episode of Volume 7 but other than that what’s he doing in life?
It’s gotten to the point that I only watch the show for Oscar and Oz development. Oz was gone for an entire volume and his speech gave him more character development than Team RWBY in the last 3 volumes.
22:13 wow ruby is so graceful and just wow
@Games That makes me cry xD
Like a swan
Everyone knows the protagonist is Zwei, we don't see him cuz he's doing a training arc to appear right after the big villan of the season
I'm reminded of a line from Totally Not Mark's One Piece reviews. "The plot doesn't happen to Luffy. Luffy happens to the plot." A lot of major events in One Piece are either directly or indirectly the result of Luffy's actions, and event when they're not, he finds a way to get involved. Team RWBY, and Ruby especially are the exact opposite.
For real. By all means RWBY's "let the plot happen to the heroes" mentality could work if this were a more casual/slice of life kind of show, but it's not. And not to mention, while it could be interesting seeing how the cast reacts and changes from the plot happening to them, they just never do. It's not a "how will the team be effected by this!?" it's, "things happen and then the status quo returns".
@@twiinsiink "let the plot happen to them" on it's own isn't even that big of a problem. It works for Laundry Detergent (before it goes to shit) because Ichigo's just a normal highschooler trying to live his life, and when shit goes down, he makes himself the center of attention. Really, the same could be said about a lot of battle shonen to varying degrees, but the difference is the main characters are actually doing things and being involved and being affected by everything that happens
By definition at this point it's Ironwood. Ironwood is the only person other then Tyrian and Neo that did AYTHING in V7.
Salem is my personal protagonist at this point. I need this woman to come and save this series and kill 70% of the fluff characters. Take out one of Ruby's eyes and make her a real character with real issues and real motivation.
Blake got her old character traits back AND just randomly decided she doesn't have feelings for Sun and instead has feelings for Yang. What happened to the relationship that was there for a few volumes? At least with Weiss and Neptune it never got to be a real relationship. Sun followed Blake ACROSS AN OCEAN and SACRIFICED HIMSELF FOR HER, but then it just gets thrown away to appease fans.
I guess Rooster Teeth have just never heard of continuity.
Huh?
Yang and Blake have had a connection since the start, but Blake ran away which was a huge part of her character. If she wouldnt have done so im sure she would have formed a relationship of sorts with yang sooner. Sun filled the gaps in Yang's absence and while im sure there was a relationship of some sort there as well you cant deny the connection blake and yang had before that point as well. Tbh it just sounds like you are mad ab a canon lesbian couple. Rewatch volumes 1-3 and youll see what im talking ab lol.
@@keletric657 That assumption seems petty and feels disingenuous to claim someone would think that just because they didn’t see the things you apparently saw! Who knows maybe you’re possibly wrong and misconstruing stuff. There are a lot of things to consider so I wouldn’t advise jumping to sladerous conclusions so quickly.
Definitely one of the best videos you've made. I tend to enjoy all of them but this one was especially good and really encapsulates the biggest problem with volume 7. It's pure catharsis to see you deconstruct it like this.
Thank you so much!
Weiss and Blake Blake should've shine this volume. Blake lost her agency, and passion for equality (except when she did nothing to help Velvet). She is in the most racist part of her world and is an open fuanus. This is Weiss's home. They gave Weiss's development to Nora. So much that you'd think she was born in Mantle/Atlas too. Penny should've stayed dead. Winter should've gotten the maiden powers. JNR just take precious screentime from RWBY, Oscar and Ironwood. Drop them.This show breaks it's own back to make sure RWBY is on top. I love your videos btw. ❤
I have seen Fanfictions who handle this better!
I remember one where Weiss and Blake actually had to Team up to solve a Kidnapping Mystery in Mantle.
Weiss didn't had it easy because the People of Mantle and the Faunus suspected the SDC to kidnap People to work in the Mines and thought that she came down here to look for new Victims.
Mantle was also depicted as much dirtier and run down.
@@johannesseyfried7933 that sounds really cool!
@@Angi3_6 It gets even better. :)
In a later Chapter Kali visits her Daughter during the Vytal Festival and meets General Ironwood. Kali doesn't like him at first, but eventually they start to respect each other and even try to improve the Relationship between Atlas and Menagerie.
To boil a whole lot of diplomatic Talk down to a few important Points:
Menagerie trades Wine, Opals, Fruits and other exotic Products with Atlas.
In Return, Atlas will build them their own CCT Tower so Menagerie finally get access to Internet and the global Com-System.
Menagerie also is officially recognized as its own Kingdom, which allows them to host the Vytal Festival AND the right to build their own Combat Academy.
Jacques and many Atlassian Moneybags aren't happy about having to spend Money so those useless Faunus get their own Com-Tower.
Sienna Kahn likewise isn't happy that they alley themselves with their Enemy, but can't actually DO anything against it.
How would she justify blowing up their CCT to the People of Menagerie?
"Internet and Global Communication are bad for you"?! Yeah, right!
@@johannesseyfried7933 Oohh! What's it called? Does it involve the rest of team RWBY?
@@Angi3_6 Yes and no.
It's called "SAPR" (which spells Saphire), and is about the Adventures of Sunset Shimmer, Jaune Arc, Pyrrha Nikos and Ruby Rose.
Yang is on a Team with Ren and Nora, and Blake stays with Penny's Team Rosepetal, after she got outed as an Ex-White Fang Member.
Weiss has to put up with Cardin as one of her Team Members.
The Story follows the RWBY Plot, with a few Differences and a whole lot more World building.
Ruby and Yang find out about the Silver Eyes and actually try understand how this Power works.
We get Cinders Backstory and the Backstory of Team STRQ.
Characters like Cardin, Arslan Altan, Whitley, and Ciel Soleil get much needed Development....
It's honestly one of the best RWBY Fanfictions I have read so far. 😊
The only growing Ruby did was when her head grew to an ugly size in the next step
As time goes on and my love for RWBY begins draining, I look at videos like and really begin agreeing with the points a lot more than I use to
I think the biggest example of the characters not dealing with characters arcs is Yang's PTSD that only comes up when it can't actually affect the plot, and then is immediately dropped. Fighting Adam should be terrifying for Yang. I've mentioned in other videos the easiest change you can make to massively improve the fight with him is to swap the roles Yang and Blake have. Yang is supposed to be traumatized by losing her arm. Have her be scared to fight Adam, to see him and completely freeze up.
Blake on the other hand, is over Adam, she stopped caring about him in volume 5. So have her be the one who has to save a scared Yang. She can hold off Adam, but maybe can't beat him on her own. So Yang needs to overcome her fears to save those she cares about. It'd still be a bit rushed, and it's still mediocre shipping fodder since he's already been humiliated in volume 5, but it serves as a worthy conclusion/continuation of their character arcs from the previous volumes and how the two of them specifically relate to Adam.
RWBY really needs to take some pointers from One Piece on how to handle a large cast.
Be careful what you wish for. I wouldn't be surprised if RT copies the wrong Things from One Piece, and we will have to wait twenty Years until we actually reach Salems Island.
@@johannesseyfried7933 lmao. True. But it's not like RT actually wants to explore the world they created. lol.
It really doesn't even need to be One Piece. (not that they could ever hope to match even a small fraction of that) Pretty much any battle shonen worth any fraction of a shit handles large casts better than RWBY.
Hell, I started watching Tsugumomo (very ecchi harem shounen) a few days ago, and while its cast isn't absolutely massive, it is pretty sizable and growing at a steady pace and all or near all of them are decently fleshed out and get screentime proportionate to their roles in the story. It's not groundbreaking by any means and the MC is the typical harem MC with a bit of shounen thrown in, but it's something. I actually know and care about the characters. The generic harem MC is more of a character than team RWBY.
@@s3studios597 Yeah when you put it like that RWBY is actually really sad by comparison. lol.
For anyone who wants to say Ruby has a flat character arc, I have to ask... what does Ruby stand for exactly? What does she represent? What ideals does she deliver to people around her? These are the types of things you do with flat characters so they can still feel fleshed out and interesting. If your flat-arc character doesn't really have any of these then they're just going to be boring unless they have a really strong personality to them. Ruby doesn't exactly have that type of personality. She just kind-of exists because all the development she should have got about learning about the world and improving over time went to Jaun, and then after the first three seasons they created Oscar to re-do the same line of development all over again.
Let that sink in for a moment. We have THREE generic fish-out-of-water happy go lucky shonen protagonists and two of them have basically stopped growing right now!
Stuff like this is why so many fanfics focus on Jaune instead, Plus those fanfics also have better development for team rwby
Coeur Al'Aran? :D
lijah owsley Yep!
@@interlegere5603 Lol I love how quick you replied. Honestly I like his work 10 times as much as canon.
lijah owsley Not to mention how seamlessly he inserts canon lore into ongoing stories.
I'm impressed with how you're able to criticize this series so much while still being nice to it and not completely writing it off as trash. I wish I could do that. I gave up on any hope of the show being good after vol. 6. While Ironwood was great, to me, it honestly felt more like a by product of RT constantly trying to keep team RWBY in the right despite all the lying and secrecy.
Thank you!
I think the point is the show had ground solid to support, but the problem is can crwby or rt tap into it to make it more. And a lot of people see that.
@@coreywong6229
Eh. The show's 7 seasons; 7 years in. Potential may have been a good excuse before (and it's part of what kept me interested), but that really doesn't fly anymore. At this point, the show just is. A lot of the potential's already been squandered. I mean sure they COULD get it together and improve the show, but people have been saying that for years now.
I don't think having a show with an ensemble cast focus on characters other than the protagonists is an issue.
In fact, in media with combat (mostly Western but in general too) I often find myself disinterested in fights containing a protagonist, given that 99% of the time, the fight has minimal stakes. You are basically guaranteed the protagonist at least survives, so it hurts the scene overall. For that reason, fights with non-protagonist characters are exciting, because anything is possible. I also feel that with an ensemble cast, focusing on a broad range of characters is better for world building (and less boring). I can just sarcastically claim that the lack of focus on protagonist here is because RWBY is a form of postmodern writing, and actually end up enjoying it more.
That being said, I have to give this video a like. The other glaring issues you pointed out, from lack of character growth or even effort, to the out of character moments and lack of retention of character motivation, are just way too hard to overlook. Hopefully we see some actual development for team rwby.
Team RWBY's morals are fucked, and the show isn't self aware enough to actually acknowledge it. They preach to the man who runs a nation they've been in for less than hours about how he should care more about the people, yet actively disregard the consequences and ramifications their actions can have on civilian lives when it suits them (When they antagonized cordovin and stole an airship).
This is especially clear in the latter half of volume 6, as their direct actions to become criminals could've had heavy ramifications if plot convenience didn't take into account. A) Jaune's sister would've definitely lost her job as she helped out fucking criminals, B) Destroying the mech would undoubtedly weaken the defenses of Argus, and probably cost alot to repair (Not to mention the constant antagonization on the part of RWBY), C) If they hadn't just so happened to be there for when Grimzilla showed up, due to the destroyed mech Argus would've been fucked (I'm aware the negative emotions attracted him to Argus but there still could've been a possibility of him showing up later). They had alternatives, the one which Cordo offered had an easy way to get to Atlas and bring aboard the rest of team RWBY (it'd only take at most a few days), but they didn't take it because Weiss is soooo scared of Jaqcues. I get it, but you don't even have to go to Jacques, she can go with Winter in the military (like she did in volume fucking 7, if this was an option why did she even worry about Jaqcues? She didn't even need to interact with him at all during the party she could've just avoided him, he never made a fuss about it anyways), even then why resort to becoming international criminals? All that does is take away from Argus resources and put the jobs of others in jeproady. Blake preaches about justice but goes along with the team's plan to break the law because of fucking pettiness.
This also shows near the end of volume 7. Blake and Yang help someone who they've never met and who steals from the government... She literally tried ambushing them on their first meeting yet they willingly give government info to her, knowing first hand what she does, yet when the consequences catch up to them and Ironwood wants them arrested, they can't accept that. Oh no poor team RWBY they'll have to actually face the consequences of their actions for once, we can't have that! They're fucking criminals, they did this to themselves. Why are they keeping information from Ironwood when they fucking jumped Oscar when Oz did something similar? They claim that saving the lives of others is so important yet take Penny, the maiden, away from the relic so Atlas can't even make use of that to try and turn the tides. They take down the special forces who defend Atlas and Mantle, they're directly keeping knowledge from the military whilst giving it out to the military's opposition, and not just that but directly harming the forces and severely limiting the power they have.
Team RWBY are self-righteous, entilted, hypocritical, dumbasses which would be interesting if the story was actually willing to call them out. They don't get to deal with consequences because the story doesn't want them to. Team RWBY are ironically some of the most morally bankrupt and idiotic individuals in tv history, but it isn't ackknowledged
dude he had no choice when it comes to stealing the airship, they were simply refused, when it comes to destroying the robot he had no choice, otherwise he would get killed. If you are looking for a manager go
see Corvodine, who after the battle let them go.
if you consider the rwby team as a gang of criminals, did not read one piece, avoid looking at pirate of caraiban you risk being shocked to see protagonists behaving in such an illegal way
@@anonyme117delt5 The problem between comparing those two things to team RWBY is that team RWBY see themselves as heroes and these great figures of fucking importance, while they are not. Strawhat crew never called themselves heroes and claim to try to save the world, pirates of Cariban were a bunch of criminals and they relished in it. I see no comparison between a supposedly righteous group of girls who are out there to save the world, while simultaneously making everything they touch even worse than it was before and several groups of fictional characters who do not, in fact, pursue any world-saving endeavors and mostly get caught up in the politics of the world while pursuing their own goals, there's a big difference in the plot structure and intent there.
Cordo said she'd only allow Weiss to go through, Their was nothing said about her allowing the rest of her friends through as well. Also what reason do Blake and Yang have to not trust Robyn? She's the representative of Mantle, trying to make things better for the people. What reason do they have to be suspicious of her?
@@spencermalley10 Oh I don't know, the fact she was stealing supplies from the Atlas military that are required for a secret project to reconnect the world? You say she's trying to make things better for the people, for Mantle as a whole? Doubt it. Why I say this is because of a few things. The celebration party she hosted? There were NO Faunus there expect Fiona and that's it, everyone else was human, that says she only supports the human side of Mantle or at least it's implied she does, she don't care about the Faunus at all. Fiona is really just there to be a token Faunus and that's it.
EVEN after Yang & Blake went behind Ironwood's back and committed treason to tell Robyn his plans, she had the audacity to say, "I won't stop till I know everything." that means telling her the truth meant nothing at all when she continues doing what she's been doing, it means that Yang & Blake gave away information that someone like her DIDN'T need to hear at all and it made them, especially Blake look like idiots.
Robyn is a criminal stealing from the Military, supplies that are for a secret project to reunite the world and Yang & Blake decided to tell her those plans instead of capturing and detaining her like Ironwood order them to. Blake has NO excuse to trust her at all and that's the worst of it, she decides to trust someone she doesn't know over someone who gave a place to stay, train, eat and the man made her a Huntress(Something NONE of them deserved at all.) and she spits back in his face to telling some person she don't know top secret plans to, just because of the state Mantle was in, even after he told them WHY Mantle looked like it did, she STILL did it, both her and Yang are guilty.
And, last thing I swear, because of that decision, Amity wasn't even completed. Now Atlas is in trouble and the world isn't reconnected thanks to Team RWBY's stupid decisions putting EVERYONE in jeopardy.
@@windghost2 Supplies she's giving back to the people of Mantle, She also has no way of knowing what the supplies are actually for because she like everyone else is being kept in the dark about Ironwood's plan. She's not stealing them for the hell of it or to spite Ironwood, she's doing it for Mantle. She doesn't know about the secret project to reunite the world. You can't call her untrustworthy based on information she doesn't know and would have no way of knowing.
Blake and Yang telling Robyn the truth is what got her and by extension Mantle on their side. If they had "followed orders" and detained her, It would make Atlas look even worse to the people of Mantle. Her saying "I won't stop until I know the truth" doesn't mean she's gonna keep stealing and stonewalling the project, it simply means she wants to know the truth, That's it. From the point of view of Team RWBY, Robyn Hill is a huntress trying to help Mantle and stealing supplies for a project she doesn't know about in no way contradicts that.
Play drinking game everytime Twiins makes a good point...
Me: Oh no...
*Dies in 5 minutes from alcohol poisoning*
I feel a big factor of why team RWBY feel so insignificant in their own show is that almost none of the currently living villains care about them or even know who they are. The closest we have is Cinder and Neo both wanting revenge on Ruby, though they've made little effort towards that so far, and Salem knowing Ruby through her mother, but she pays barely any mind to her compared to Oz and the relics, despite her silver eyes.
I honestly enjoy the critical discussion around rwby so much more then the show itself. Rwby is such a mess of a show that its easily some of the best in the business at teaching you what not to do when writing a series.
The fact it started off with the obvious Ruby Rose and spiraled down to the shitshow it is now where no one know what it means to be a supporting character anymore is sad. Like ffs even in 2020 the mane 6 from MLP never strayed away from the fact that twilight is the main protagonist while the other 5 are just supporting characters
to this day, I always thought the biggest issue to RWBY was having team JNPR be in it - they do have good moments throughout the series, but I think they should have stopped appearing back in v3 in all honesty
Well it doesn't help that the main reason they are still here is in Volume 3 Ozpin decided Pyrrha should be super important to his shadow war largely out of the blue.
I mean seriously my first thought when he was going on about choosing a student to be his important guardian was that we were finally going to see what his interest in RUBY was about since she was the one he was interacting with the most.
Team JNR shouldn't have gone to Atlas with Team RWBY, Qrow and Oscar. They really should've just stayed with Jaune's sister's house at the end of volume 6 and reconciled more about their grief of Pyrrha
So you are saying that the dodekagonist is parallel to our protagonist in the fact that he is involve in the plot and she is not. xD
Stil feel like team JNR could have left the plot in season 6 for a thousand reasons, like not the show in itself but having them setting out new possible plot treats.
Like helping reconstruct Vale and protect the relic with Goodwitch... or go to Mistral (a kingdom that recently killed a lot of hunters and is in need :p)... or even go to Vacuo to investigate the general situation of their relic... or hell even protect Argus that just lost a giant mecha.
I mean if the story is going to intruduce even more hunters that we are expected to care about o watch develope it would be quite handy to have a little more room to breathe.
But oh well atleast this means we get to see how big the hole they dug themselves up is going to be, the writers I mean.
Dodekagonist! Yes!
Ruby Rose was so unimportant and pointless in this entire volume that when it got to the last episode and she shows up to be a dEUS Ex machina I literally had forgotten about her entire existence until that moment. It’s the finale of the volume and she makes like one appearance
Did I just watch a 25 minute video on a show I’ve never watched and never will but was somehow very invested (you and HBomber have basically formed all my opinions on this show and I can’t tell if that’s good or bad.... but I did enjoy the video so theres that)
You put me in the same boat as HBomberguy so I'm going to consider this an absolute win!
BORING!
That's the word I've been looking for...
Ever since Volume 4 I noticed that something about Yang's fighting style just wasn't the same, and it made her lose her spot at my favorite character because there was nothing enjoyable about her anymore. I spent so long pondering just what about her fights was so off-putting, but you've perfectly nailed it with just that one word.
3:30 - 3:40 *THANK YOU* I could literally not say it better myself.
The suffering here is so audible that just hearing it inflicts sympathy phantom pain. The sad thing is, this is a suffering born from caring about RWBY in a way that matters: As a story. This is how fans should be: Caring about something while also capable of being critically constructive about it.
RWBY seems to be going through an identity crisis at the moment, not just with its characters, but with the tone of the show. It doesn't know whether to be a fun over the top action series, or a show that's meant to be taken seriously with drama. While I still like/want to like RWBY, I admit that it has been coming off as pretentious the last few seasons. But as Barb said "It's just a cartoooooooon" (even the VA's don't seem all that invested in show).
Can't wait for the emerald ,Oscar ,ruby love triangle in volume 9 or 10 caz I now it's coming
Hey this video was uploaded on my birthday. And from a youtuber who is slowly becoming one of my favorite RWBY youtubers
Happy Birthday!
Poor ironwood has back problems now from carrying the whole volume
It would’ve been so cool if in haven ruby snuck out of the house to the lower sectors of haven to see if cinder was involved in the criminal world and maybe find something, she could’ve even fought if some bandits that wanted to rob her or something. Beats staying in that house and listening to ozpin cry about the plot for a hole volume.
I DEFINITELY prefer Nora being the one to speak up. We don't know as much about her, so seeing this new side to her passion was super compelling. I wish that like you'd said, they'd given that scene of telling Robyn to Nora. That would've been SO GOOD and made SO MUCH SENSE
I totally forgot that our “heroes” went through all that trouble to get to Atlas to keep the Lamp safe, only for them to immediately distrust Ironwood, the person who would have helped keep it safe. It almost felt like the relics are just a checklist at this point
RWBY: *always just kinda there, with no real drive or significance to the plot*
JNPR: *has lost one of their members to the villains, leader of the team actively hates Ozpin for the role he played in Pyrrha’s death, other two has the most fleshed out and explored tragic backstory of the entire show which culminates in them conquering the source of their fears*
Hardly surprising. RWBY is a muddled mess of anime and Avatar cliches, the show never bothered to carve an identity of its own and the creative team had no restraint. They kept throwing in new characters and cool fight scenes....And basically wrote the plot around those fight scenes. Even when said fight scenes had characters with no proper introduction. The creative team want to throw in all the things they like from Anime (and Avatar) but they cannot keep focus long enough to develop or flesh any of it out.
you know, I also just realized this, Ren was Ironwood's boot licker since day one, and he sided with him being the contrast to Nora, aaaannnd Ironwood just threw him under the bus labeling him a criminal, annnnd it was also just pointless too....
I wouldn't exactly call him Bootlicker. He saluted to Ironwood once....and you would expect this would lead to Drama between Nora and Ren....which it doesn't.
I don't even understand why they put it in.
It would have been interesting to see the Teams question what the better Approach to Salems Invasion would be.
Maybe Weiss and Ren Side with Atlas, while Nora and Ruby want to go out and fight for Mantle.
@@johannesseyfried7933 they add in more than a salute
Before volume 7: Ironwood is cool but a bit zealous
During volume 7: Alright Ironwood!!! Stick it to the Villain!!!
End of Volume 7: *insert Marlon Brando meme* look at what they did to my boy😥.
Need changes: Yang should've been @ odds w/ Ironwood, who kept holding the robotic arm he gave her over her head. The Ace Ops should've fought both teams to a standstill, until interrupted by Neo & Cinder. Then a free for all should break out, where Ruby gets the maiden powers, instead of Penny. Neo & Cinder should've escaped w/ Watts & the relic.
I mean this whole video illustrates one of the biggest problems with the story. The fact that the writers literally have to take plot points from better suited characters to give to other characters to try and make them relevant. I mean Nora's whole story line would have better suited for Weiss but they gave it to her so she wouldn't be standing around all the time. They bring Penny back(who should have stayed dead btw) to become the winter maiden taking this from Winter instead of simply allowing Cinder to win ONCE to make her an actual threat.
Why does Cinder need to be a threat again?
Because for reals everyone has more important things to worry about than her at this point.
@@benjaminmcneil574 because if they're going to bring up the maidens over and over again in search for those redundant relics. They at least need to make the bad guy who's hunting them worth watching.
16:36 that aged well...
pain
Weiss got so screwed in V7. She had 7 years of build up to finally breaking free of her father, and then it's done in 5 seconds.
This video, the pessimistic comments, man, I feel exhausted after seeing it all.
Feels like there is no hope for RWBY to get better, but christ, I still push and hope for that silver lining. I didn't even know about Rwby until midway through season 5, and learning about how it came to be, its creator being taken away so quickly, and the remnants he left behind, I still watch because I truly love this show.
I don't care how it ends, I'm staying until the end damnit, no matter what happens.
Dude your re-rewrite was so good, you made things make sense and the plot actually had... continuity for a sec, and the characters actually each get to do something ands not so focussed on extras.
I agree with what you are saying, there were many scenes or actions that felt out of place. Like the new relationships were not hinted at and came out of nowhere then they were forgotten about for the rest of the volume.
I really hope volume 8 does more to help the characters grow since the whole volume's timeline is 2 days.