Origin Of The Universe | AC - Illinois | Atheist Experience 23.39
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The Atheist Experience 23.39 for September 15, 2019 with Matt Dillahunty & Gayle Jordan from www.recovering...
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"Everything that exists has a cause...except god."
"Everything exists within the bounds of time and space...except god."
"Nothing can exist forever...except god."
His whole argument basically.
Special pleading fallacy.
Calvin Harrison And you’re a special creature too. A safety helmet in the shower kinda special, a “my shoes are labeled L and R” sorta special, parents met at a family reunion...see where this is going?
...All the way to the yellow short bus you rode to school.
BTW, I *am* a creature, I’m a animal, specifically an evolved primate. Why the F should a scientific fact insult me? It’s you ‘special’ people that get your shorts bunched up about it.
And no matter how many times you spam that ridiculously nonsensical comment, it will never be true. No one “needs” or “requires” an imaginary friend to exist.
@Calvin Harrison Hahhaahah.....
no.
@Calvin Harrison "Which is true creature"
Prove it.
Also don't project your own insecurities onto others.
Adam and Eve is a parable of metaphors. For example Adam means Man and Eve means Life. Where the Talking Serpent of Life, is the evil one within all men (Man) called unruly Temptation. Where we (all men) post puberty and adolescence, are no longer that young innocent and harmless child of whom we once were. We now have many (secretive) dishonest, immoral and unruly thoughts of Temptation, called Satan or the Devil and Lucifer, etc. However, most men are blind to themselves, in the way that Hitler was blind to himself.
Gayle basically told AC to go to his room and think about what he's done. Well done Gayle.
Dammit. I've been watching for 10min waiting for her to speak.
Well , she nods her head well. 😁
Matt kinda loves the sound of his own voice. Seldom lets anyone finish or develope an idea, especially other hosts.
@@huepix I agree
Kc Cain An intelligent person knows they don’t necessarily need to speak when someone else is masterfully handling the situation. They have long ago learned to control their ego and Gayle Jordan, like Jen Peeples would do, was just letting the call flow. It’s like a professional singer listening to another professional singer doing a song well. There is no need to butt in.
I recently watched a documentary on Linda Ronstadt and in it she was singing with Dolly Parton and Emmy Lou Harris and Ronstadt, who once was one of the greatest singers of all time (until Parkinson’s disease robbed her of her voice) said she wanted to let Dolly take the lead, even though Dolly wanted her to. They each only cared about the beauty and presentation of the song, not their own egos.
Why do the callers with "evidence" always end up providing "their thoughts" instead? Surely they all can't misunderstand the meaning of the words evidence, logic, reasoning. Kudos to Matt and Gayle for a very well done video.
@Austin Mark "i dont think these people have a clue what evidence is"
They clearly don't and have proven it time and time again.
Most people think that thoughts are real with their own reality but the problem comes in when they apply it to reality.
If I see a demon and I don't have any mental sickness no matter what no one would believe me even if it would be real so science is not the same as reality. Science has limits, in science all the facts are "facts just for now".
Science theories change if verifiable facts change. Religion has zero facts and will never change. As a theist, if you want to see real demons watch a Popoff infomercial.
The thing is that this is not about science, but about what can be demostrated.
The sad reality is that there is not difference between "something you believe but cannot demonstrate is true" and "some delusion you saw and believe is true".
Religion is dying because people are waking up and thinking for themselves, instead of believing in fairy tails in a book.
Daniel Burroughs Well, since “God” is a metaphor for the mysteries beyond human understanding, I’m sorry to break it to you, but religion will always be with us. Unless you are going to assert that every single fact that could possibly known is going to be known, and therefore there will be zero mystery in the universe At some point in human history.
voodootree I have absolutely no idea what the second part of your post is about. I am arguing for the position that God and religion are going to be with us eternally, because there will always be mysteries in the universe.
@@chuckm1961
I dont give a damn about intellectually dishonest people who want to just say God is love, God is mystery, blah blah blah. When the vast majority of people believe in a dictator sky daddy that judges everyone.
Religion is a plague.
God isn't a metaphor for shit, if you want to just say it's a metaphor then you aren't religious.
If you acknowledge that there is a God outside of metaphor then you're an idiot.
Four minutes in and Matt has called out AC's special pleading fallacy even before AC finishes making his special pleading fallacy.
I was literally about to post this exact thing.
It's like watching a boxing match where one competitor trips on the ropes trying to get in the ring and knocks themselves out by falling before the fight.
@Truthus Maximus The caller's attempt to go into special pleading was shot down before he got to it. Fortunately the caller ceased his pursuit of the plea before it was completed. That is why my original comment said that Matt called out the special pleading fallacy even before the caller finished making it.
haKurei kura nice👍
Truthus Maximus do ever stop asking questions instead of answering them?
@Truthus Maximus If there necessarily is a non contingent substance that is the basis of *all* contingent things, then it must be the case that all contingent things are modifications (made of) of that substance. Hence that substance would be the basis of which everything else is constituted, i.e. the fundamental fabric of reality and nothing like the theistic conception of god - in fact much more like the physicist's strings, which are a candidate for this fundamental fabric of reality (or final indivisible level of everything). So, theists have unfortunately taken their anthropomorphic conception of "god" and are trying to force it into a philosophical argument where it just doesn't fit at all. There is absolutely no sensible reason why reality should be based on an entity with disembodied mind, even if such a concept had any sensible meaning at all, which it doesn't as far as we can tell (minds require physical brains on which to operate).
Trigger: “I’ve maintained it for 20 years. This old broom has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in its time.”
Sid: “How the hell can it be the same bloody broom then?”
Trigger: “Well here’s a picture of it. What more proof do you need?”
Because we call it 'the broom, the one we keep in the cupboard'.
God. Never. Shows. Up.
I invented a personal god and convinced others to invent theirs.
Together we worship our personal god.
Well..... except to people that lived in the Bronze Age and were suspiciously, always alone at the time. 😉
I had nightmares years ago about something that claimed to be god. I ended up dead every time because I refused to believe. Reason why I refused to believe was that who ever it was didn't allow me to go home.
Does that count?
in recent years..in a toast bread.
God: Hide & Seek champion 13.772 billion years running.
The caller already believes that something has always existed.
Yet he can't believe something has always existed.
And he can't see the contradiction.
I can.
@@mitchelljermaine Well I think the problem might be when the caller admitted that different beliefs can't be contradictory since he was making an argument with numbers along the lines of 2+2 has to equal 4; it would be contradictory to say 2+2 equals 3. He later then shifted to the black swan fallacy. The problem is that there is a double standard for God in these situations. As much as science turned into a religion, none of the people in this "debate" were scientists, they really even weren't making scientific points. Science the science is lacking here and Matt was just pointing that out to the Christian. Matt said multiple times the atheist approach doesn't have a top-down view. I would be interested to know what you think about that. Does Matt exhibit a top-down view while simultaneously rejecting a top-down view of science?
A better analogy for Matt on the pattern argument: Take a photo of a baby every day until hes a 90 year old man... look through the photos and pinpoint the exact day the baby turned into an old man.
I've used that exact analogy when someone tries to disprove evolution because supposedly there aren't any transitional fossils like the "crocoduck" 😅
That's a Dawkins analogy I believe.
Matt is an incredible thinker. It's a shame that he's not considered greater than the mainstream atheist figures (who I also respect). Matt has this thing about critical thinking that never ever failed yet. That's huge!
Caller: argument
Matt: that's a fallacy
Caller: another argument
Matt: that's another fallacy
Caller: different argument
Matt: that's also a fallacy
XD
this guy was quite respectful. i think once he knew his hand wasn't gonna play out, he pretty much folded. hopefully you guys taught him something; nice logication!
Thanks for being a voice of unbiased balance in the sea of asslickers in the comment sections.
He clearly didn’t learn anything because at the very end of the call, he continued to assert that he thinks it’s more probable that the universe must have some external origin since “everything we know of that’s bounded by space and time” has an origin... he continuously fails to recognize so many issues with his logic: The concept of origins is something we made up for simplicity... in reality, everything in the universe is constantly just changing forms from one collection of atoms into another and, when it changes form into something that we have a label for like a human, we consider that collection of atoms as having “originated”. As Matt points out, the atoms that make the human already existed. Essentially, the opposite of what he said is true: we don’t know of anything within our universe that has ever truly “originated” because it is a universal law that matter cannot be created (or destroyed).
Plussed for "logication". 😊 😂
To be honest, this is one of the most intelligent theist callers I've heard on this show.
He might actually be on the verge of "Seeing the Light".
Being intelligent can also mean he's better at rationalizing his unreasonable beliefs. He'd also be better at mental gymnastics to explain away anything that contradicts his beliefs (at least, to himself). I'm not saying all intelligent people do that. But someone who has faith and deep down wants to hold on to that faith will use their intelligence for that.
His arguments were terrible
He's polite, I'll give him that. However, it's all the same BS.
Matt really nailed my general position in this call. I've been saying this exact shit since I was 12 (now 50). Every argument I've ever heard sounds like "I'm scared and I need a story to quell the fear". Like Matt, I really don't mind not knowing.
I agree. Sometimes a feel sad that I’ll never know. But more often than not, looking at the night sky and wondering is both calming and mesmerizing at the same time.
I love theists. "My little human brain can't possibly comprehend God's plan, I just have to believe. Also, my amazing human brain gifted by GOD can obviously understand the impossibility of an infinite regression of universes, multiverses and whatever, without a single shred of theoretic physics background."
They think they are so humble, but there's not many people more arrogant than them.
Indeed.
@@KarlaJordan
Exactly.
Most theist callers don't seem to understand that all the "proofs" for a god they present have been studied, analyzed and debunked for centuries.
@Kelly Bults Has a God no.actually you are satisfying your own need...
@@LucianCorrvinus Are you the bastard child of Sye Ten Bruggencate that other pre-suppositionalist fucking wanker?
lol You wish.
"Something can not come from nothing"... except your god...
There is no such thing as no thing. It's a game of words.
Exactly. That's why u pressupose...
There is no evidence for God = no God.
There is no evidence for something coming from nothing (non-being) = it's possible
"There is no evidence for something coming from nothing (non-being) = it's possible"
Not exactly, is there evidence that there was ever nothing? Maybe this is all that there ever was, is, will be.
Your god comes from the same place as all the other characters that fill our man made books.
Gayle[sic] is fucking awesome.
Yeah dude. She didn't get a chance to say much but what she did say knocked it out of the park.
Cool to see another big channel visiting this channel.
Yep! And so are you! Love your videos! Coupled with The Atheism Experience and a load of other channels, you helped me wake up from the Jehovah’s Witness cult this year. Thanks, man.
I love hearing Matt talk. Lol. I'm always fascinated by the way he explains and frames things.
Very true. Having listened to this show for nearly five years, my critical thinking skills have improved tremendously and when faced with arguments can emulate to an extent how Matt would chide at it.
Him and Tracy Harris are the best speakers on the show. Both have incredible ability to spew out rock solid logic straight to the point.
God is a human construct to explain things that have no explanation. Mans brain is always seeking answers and for things that can't be explained is where God enters to satisfy the unknown. Look at how many gods have been created by man to serve the purpose to answer the unknown
Yes and look at just how many gods there after have been thrown aside aswell. The only reason the latest interpretation of our primitive social human construct is sheer Stubborness alone. Not by evidence, not by reason NOT by any demonstrable sort of Truth what so ever. Sheer Stubborness and being willfully ignorant and also intellectualy LAZY, are the only reason modern religion persists. And Not a Theist alive can prove otherwise, not now, not Ever.
😎👍
Lol, in summary: "Please let me tell you what you believe and move these goalposts for god far enough to let me keep my beliefs"
Exactly
Sportsball!!!
Oh, the Uncaused Cause Argument. Never heard that one before.
Theists are so original, they always come up with new arguments! New because they just heard it lolll
It's amusing that they can say that something was uncaused without evidence, but reject the notion that maybe, just maybe, the universe has always existed in one form or another.
If these people had only smoked weed in college we wouldn't have this issue.
Matt could do with a little help from Heraclitus, “No man steps into the same river twice, for it is not the same river and it is not the same man”. Love this channel.
Admit it, you stole that from Pocahontas
Don't you hate it when these callers want to sound really smart... but then, nope. I mean really, this guy should know better.
Sounds like he watched the worst of Ben Shapiro arguments, and now he’s stuck in a loop.
But then, there wouldn't be a show and my Friday night entertainment would have to shift to re-runs of Seinfeld or something.
They don't know better. That is why believers continue to call with the same ol none sense.
He wanted to flog the kalaam cosmological argument. Got his legs knocked out from under him. Flailing ensues.
Perhaps "nothing" doesn't exist. It might be an impossible condition in a physical universe.
One of the best actual conversations I’ve seen on here. Every one was respectful, Matt didn’t get too exasperated and Gayle drew the. Conversation back around. Brilliant.
This is probably one of the best videos I've ever seen on this forum. An honest, civil intellectual discussion. Well done everyone 👍
Man, I despise these origin arguments. I DON'T KNOW and NEITHER do they. Who's being honest? Even the greatest minds in the world don't know. They can't say everything has a cause. Just because the things they have been exposed to APPEAR to have a cause doesn't mean that the things they are not familiar with has a cause.
Personally, I don't think you can prove ANYTHING has been created. Not a car or a plane or a house of even a meal. Because we didn't create the components to make those things, we merely reassembled existing matter. Maybe all the matter and energy spread out in the universe always existed. But I DON'T KNOW.
Theists can posit a God all day and I have never ever seen credible evidence that their God caused anything other than to get them to put money into a preacher's collection plate.
But what I really hate about these arguments is even if I agree
So all that you wrote is just your opinion that you didn’t create?
@@twelvedozen5075 Tell me one opinion you did create
Spoiler alert: you're wrong
If you are proposing an Infinite regression, then that is what it is, INFINITE! The caller not understand the definition of the word infinite.
An eternal Cosmos does not need a creator.
Do humans really know what infinite is?
@@Villy3420 yes, it's not that difficult a concept to grasp.. Unless you're a theist of course.
Actually, his attitude and ability to listen was pretty good. Certainly better than many.
We've never observed "nothing" so how could we observe something emerge from it?
Not sure you can observe nothing because if you were observinig it then it wouldn't be nothing.
Jebuslives Krause says nothing is inherently unstable and will decay into something.
@@elsiegel84 Well in order to say that with any level of certainty he would first have to observe nothing.
@@drg8687 Many things are observed only indirectly. In the case of nothingness I believe his tool was mathematical, as is the case for most if not all theoretical physicists and cosmologists.
@@elsiegel84 Nope. The big bang has evidence just like any scientific theory. Math is math, it's not evidence of anything but math.
Math deals in proofs.
Science deals with evidence.
Math is not evidence for something in reality. You also are making a big mistake by assuming that your definition of nothing is the same as a physicists definition of nothing. It isn't.
Nothing has never been observed. We can't even say it's possible.
What Matt says towards the end absolutely makes sense and gives a lot to think about
Religion requires faith not fact
easyease that’s the problem
ruzh xyz no it’s not.
@@joesmoke9624 how so?
Green Man Facts don’t speak for themselves. Facts need theories and theories continue to undermine facts. No wonder scientists like theories better, because facts aren’t necessarily absolute truth.
Something can be infinite but still be continuously in the present. Even if something has always existed and always will exist it is always in the now, so there isn't any catching up to be done.
Zeno's paradox is very similar to something I learned in differential equations except the subject matter was how a runner could never catch up to the other runner
Was the runner a deity verses a turtle?
@@c.guydubois8270 its probably the half the distance in each step thingie
Matt always impresses me with his knowledge. Love listening to him!
Please do a segment explaining what logic is, and what logic isn't. Not enough people understand what logic is.
this would be tight. granted, there are probably other videos dealing with exactly that, it's still nice to hear things explained eloquently, and within the context of debating against apologists.
@@zhou_sei
I don't actually care about debates, rather I care about truth. Debates usually boil down to who's better at arguing than who's right; there is actually a couple of good videos by AnticitizenX explaining what logic is 😊
It's too easy for instinct to override logic.
@@bobs182
Do you know what logic is??
A logical statement is supposed to described accurately the way the world works.
Fractals can be infinite. No matter how far you zoom in or zoom out you always come back to where you started. The universe is a fractal. Tada.
As soon as he stated that nothing comes from nothing, he proved he didn't understand Big Bang cosmology. There was never nothing according to Big Bang cosmology. All the energy and matter in the Universe was once a singularity. Who knows if that singularity was not always there?
@@kojak3329 What you have just written is nonsense! If you can't even understand what a singularity is, which by the way has nothing to do with life, then I suggest you go and study a bit more. You can't solve a mystery by appealing to another mystery! If you are going to ask a stupid question like "who put the singularity there" which implies that you believe a god put it there, then you have to ask who put god there. If you are going to assert that this god is eternal and not bound by the laws of physics etc, that is a fallacy known as special pleading. The singularity itself could have always been there thereby negating the necessity for a god. There is overwhelming evidence for the Big Bang and the singularity as opposed to absolutely no evidence for a god of any kind. If you wish to make a claim that god did it, prove it with evidence and not special pleading!
@@kojak3329 I really do suggest you read some more because nothing you have said makes any sense. The Big Bang happened 13.8 billion years ago! Earth formed 4.543 billion years ago and life didn't start on Earth until between 3.5 billion and 4 billion years ago! So the big Bang happened 9 Billion years before the Earth even formed. The only irrational one is you and your inane ramblings. If you think that your knowledge is equal to scientists who have spent their whole lives studying this, whilst you have gone about your life pretending that your imaginary friend did it, then it's not me who is irrational and arrogant beyond measure. Or did you think I just made all this up just like you've invented your god, which you still haven't proved or have any evidence for!
@@kojak3329 _"Romans __1:20__"_ Bible verses proof nothing.
@@kojak3329 _"the Agenda to take a Creator out the spectrum."_ Conspiracy theory much? _"your logic doesn't hold it's weight"_ And neither does your logic.
@@kojak3329 Prove it. You have no evidence once again just ignorant assertions! Indoctrination? Isn't that what's done to children by religions? By the way you have just shot yourself in the foot. If I'm only on this Earth for 50 years, then explain how the four gospels were written. Seeing as the earliest Gospel was written circa 72-74 CE and in 1st Century Judea the average lifespan was 48 years. How do you explain that gospel being written by any eyewitness, not that they purport to be and are unauthored! So if you wish to place your trust in translated, copies of copies of copies for which we have no originals, unauthored, non eyewitness accounts by iron age superstitious sheep and goat herders that's your choice. No wonder you're so ignorant.
5:03
Matt: "so the correct answer is we don't know"
AC: "well, that's my thing"
Indeed AC, not knowing seems to be your thing.
Half life is God
Oh God, I think I've heard this guy on some videos with DD, but still the arrogance, and Chrisitans say Atheist have arrogance when they say we don't believe in a God.
Of course many of them are hypocritical. The maintenance of illogical double standards and contradictions are the only way to hold onto their belief system.
What is arrogant about having doubts over the lack of compelling evidence.?
@@JamesRichardWiley
Nothing actually but theists require the US vs Them mentality going so they can feel that they are better and that they're better because some god is Supposedly with them.
@@guytheincognito4186 Well it's true. If I had a god and you didn't, whose better? Me or you?
@@ultrainstinctgoku2509
Lol, do you want the right answer or the wrong answer. 😉
it's so amazing to me that we and the rest of biology came out of natural processes; why would anyone want to ruin it with a boring wand-waving magician origin story?
even if you want to believe that john travolta secretly set the first algorithm before the big bang... just keep it outta my science class.
Because even with biology and natural processes, which started out as concepts created by humans, you still have no answers for our origins or our universe's origins. So far God is the most reasonable explanation until somebody comes up with something better and that has never happened yet because science in general cannot explain how all the universe's origins actually happened, including us humans and there is no proof for it either, just questions and the more you look into it, the more questions you have to answer, questions that keep stacking on top of eachother, yet no answers, just more questions. Abiogenesis is not the origin of life because it never happened, is happening and/or will ever happen, ever. The big bang is not the origin of the universe because there is no way to prove it, in other words, I'm not convinced.
@@ultrainstinctgoku2509 how is god at all a reasonable explanation?
@@zhou_sei Because the stories in the bible are all in history. Jesus Christ exists in history and all the events did take place, it's written in history books, not just the bible.
@@ultrainstinctgoku2509 that has nothing to do with the question i asked. i completely contest the validity of your answer, as the bible is certainly not very historically accurate; but that's beside the point...
i asked about god. why is god your answer, and how is it any way a reasonable answer?
if you're a scientist and you believe in a god then you aren't doing science right.
@Dirk Knight there is no known scientific evidence for any of the thousands of known gods. therefore anyone who believes in a god is not doing science they are doing religion.
@Dirk Knight You're probably thinking that religion is going to be with us forever. You would be correct except for the fact that our 21st century society can fight back at superstition and willful ignorance by using peer pressure. Treat believers as the mental criples they are. Yes, belief in an imaginary friend is a mental illness. Some of these unfortunate victums are a danger to themselves and others. Recent White Supremacy terrorism comes to mind. Religion appeals to mental cripples like stink on $hit. Look around you, read the papers, watch the news on TV, the evidence is obvious to those who know what to look for. nothing fails like prayer. the Hollicaust proved there's no god. Catholic priests raping children proves there's no god. the spanish inquisition proved there's no god. science has proved that no god is needed in the operations of the universe including it's "creation". All the children starving to death in third-world countries proves there's no god. the existence of the muslim religion proves there's no god. that there is more than one religion proves there's no god. the immoral behavior of the biblical old-testiment diety proves there's no god. The behaviors and doctrines of the muslim members of islam proves there is no god. That two separate atom bombs were dropped on cities in Japan proved there's no god. the abhorant behavior of most christians toward non-christians is proof there's no god. that there's no justice in this world proves there's no god. The inhabitants of this world need a god like a fish needs a bicycle.
@Dirk Knight half the population of the USA is below average in IQ. most of them are religious. most of them are poor. most of them were indoctrinated as children into the religion they have. most of them are not sincerely looking for the truth. most of them will fail to transition from religion to atheists. we are going to be stuck with these people until the spell is broken. the cycle of indoctrination from one generation to another needs to be broken if we're ever going to get rid of religion entirely.
@Maxx Kroes You're probably thinking that religion is going to be with us forever. You would be correct except for the fact that our 21st century society can fight back at superstition and willful ignorance by using peer pressure. Treat believers as the mental criples they are. Yes, belief in an imaginary friend is a mental illness. Some of these unfortunate victums are a danger to themselves and others. Recent White Supremacy terrorism comes to mind. Religion appeals to mental cripples like stink on $hit. Look around you, read the papers, watch the news on TV, the evidence is obvious to those who know what to look for. nothing fails like prayer. the Hollicaust proved there's no god. Catholic priests raping children proves there's no god. the spanish inquisition proved there's no god. science has proved that no god is needed in the operations of the universe including it's "creation". All the children starving to death in third-world countries proves there's no god. the existence of the muslim religion proves there's no god. that there is more than one religion proves there's no god. the immoral behavior of the biblical old-testiment diety proves there's no god. The behaviors and doctrines of the muslim members of islam proves there is no god. That two separate atom bombs were dropped on cities in Japan proved there's no god. the abhorant behavior of most christians toward non-christians is proof there's no god. that there's no justice in this world proves there's no god. The inhabitants of this world need a god like a fish needs a bicycle.
@@larryfulkerson4505 Not a single one of those things proves there's no god.
The universe consists of spacetime with matter-energy within it which seems to interact according to certain rules that we call "the laws of physics." The rules of how matter-energy and spacetime interact within the universe has no need to apply in how universes come into being. The rules of chess do not apply in the manufacture of chess sets.
All theists have are fallacies
Rick Donato Are you absolutely certain that is true?
Twelve Dozen 👍
All your fallacies are belong to theists.
just Wright You can't prove a broad claim like that to be true. Think about it.
... and them turtles...
The Ship of Theseus paradox- Us less learned use "Trigger's broom." Trigger was a character in the sit-com "Only fools and horses." Trigger wins an award for owning the same broom for 20 years. He reveals that it has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles, but insists it is still the same broom.
Take a drink for every caller that says "So atheists say there IS NO GOD, FIR SURE??"
TumbleweedMK4 Yes, because they are aware of the different views held by atheists. Interesting that you seem to assume anyone who does not agree with you must be an idiot. Almost seems like you would dismiss anything that comes out of their mouth without giving any further thought. Almost makes you sound like a fundamentalist, who has already made up his mind Without evidence.
The edge of the map "Beyond here there be monsters" was an amazing analogy
In school I had to do a project in biology on the evolution of the horse.
It basically involved gathering information from books in the school library.
I had to do a presentation with two classmates in front of the class.
We didn't mention Genesis.
So finally, after 20 minutes Gayle speaks and her question "Who has the more honest explanation..." MIC DROP!
I can believe in an infinite, timeless, all-powerful, all-knowing, good entity that cares about my sex life. But a universe without a beginning? that's ABSURD!
LOL
ChannalMath universe didn’t create itself
@@johnrain7308 what is your point? it doesn't seem to have to do with my comment
@@johnrain7308 here's the thing, can you prove your assertion?
@@johnrain7308 how do you know?
The Truth something could not simply pop into existence out of nothingness
I am in awe!!!
Fantastic debate.
Thank you!
Huge respect.
Let me tell you what i'm enjoying the most about this episode.
I love watching Gayle just leaning back, smiling and clearly enjoying the show.
Sympathies : )
And then she comes in with a very pointed statement.
Caller claimed nothing has ever been observed creating something. I believe there are observations of pairs of virtual particles appearing from "nothing", popping into existence and then annihilating each other. Didn't Hawking theorize these particles could be separated at the edge of a blackhole event horizon, such that one of hte pair would get caught wrong side of the EH and thus the other particle would escape and remain...giving blackholes a glow?
I've never seen a black swan, not even on a nature documentary. And I watch a lot of those.
I'm not convinced by the idea of particles popping in and out of existence - I'm not saying that they don't 'appear' to but that they arrive/depart in undetectable ways.
Which leaves the big bang singularity - with all the mass of the universe in one place shirley time would be completely fucked up by gravity. Event horizon - meet your daddy.
I wish I enjoyed listening to this caller as much as he enjoyed listening to himself.
This is such an incredible dismantling of an argument. It was so good I could taste it.
Hahaha... A monster started everything! Monsters outside the map... This became funny
@@kentonbaird1723 😂😂😂
"Are you an atheist regarding a belief to other gods?"
"Yes"
Next caller
The world absolutely needs more Matt Dillahunty - thank not-god we have him!
AC---is saying every origin....well, that would mean god has an origin too....who/it or what was that?
The cop out most theists will claim is "God is outside space and time," whatever _that_ means.
It means outside Reality ......................@@AGrayPhantom
YES ! ! ...............@@dannyslag
God is magic dum dum
@Truthus Maximus "necessary condition" requires you to provide evidence for that condition. I agree a god would fall into that category. But just saying it is necessary for a god does not mean a god exists. It is necessary for a wizard to have access to physics defying magic, but that doesn't make magic real.
Who is the atheist Matt is talking about being a bad person?
That's what I was wondering.
Seems like it might be Lawrence Krauss. That’s my guess anyways. Prominent atheist, terrible philosophical thinker, has sexual misconduct allegations again him, etc
“I’ve had the same broom for 20 years. This old broom has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in its time.”
So many people appeal to science as a way of justifying their disbelief in God. Or when going so far back to the limitations of what science can currently tell us we either say "it must have been a God" or "you can't' say it's God just because you don't know the answer". That's fair enough. Appealing to history is also a large part of it. Pick up a history book and learn about the origins of religion and how it's developed through different cultures all the way to the present day, you'll find nothing supernatural about it. Of all the supernatural claims humans have made since we started worshipping rocks and trees, not one has a well-grounded argument. 300,000 years later, and people still believe in spirits.
'So many people appeal to science as a way of justifying their disbelief in God.' - No, it's far simpler than that. We say there is no evidence for the existence of any of the thousands of gods mankind has made up.
Contemporary particle physics alludes to matter being derived from quantum fields. But there is still work to be done, because these fields have extant energy. What is interesting is, where there is charge, positive and negative charges appear to reconcile to zero.
If you do an infinite regression backward you have to conclude that “magical sky daddy”.
🤦♂️
@Dirk Knight but the natural environment exists, sky daddy doesn't.
The flaw to this argument with always be, if everything needs a creator, who created the creator. If the creator had a creator, then he’s not all powerful as theirs something more powerful, if he doesn’t have a creator, that proves you have have something without a creator.
Trees comes from seeds so clearly there's a god.
“I’m just talking about the origin of the universe.” LOL.
"2 + 2 = 10... IN BASE 4! I'M FINE!!!" - GLaDOS
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that can read binary and those who cannot.
It’s funny how creationists can only move their goalposts as far back to what science has revealed.
Just like this caller is saying everything has a causealegy. Then what caused or created god?
God is the one uncaused being that caused everything to have it's existence. If something is to exist, then we need to ask what or who caused something to originate
@@BT3701 you just demonstrated special pleading
@@jppang4277 Whatever I demonstrated, you didn't disprove what I posted.
@Bob Rabbins Either God exists or nothing made everything with all it's design and complexity. The former is more logical as well as more rational to believe than the latter since nothing coming from nothing has never been observed or demonstrated.
@Bob Rabbins Let me ask you a question. What do you think gave rise and the origin to the human conscience and intelligence as well? Do you think our conscience could arise through inorganic matter?
Steven Wright turns the ship of Theseus around and sends it toward us at ramming speed. He says, "I had this terrible dream that everything in my house was removed and replaced by an exact duplicate. I told my friend about the dream and he said, 'Do I know you?'"
When a radioactive nucleus has an alpha decay and transmutes to an element with an atomic number smaller by two, we say the transmutation was caused by the alpha decay. Well, what caused the alpha decay? Anyone who tells you that everything in existence begins to exist via causality needs to ask herself, "Do you feel lucky? Well, DO you?"
Caller: "Infinite regression ends at eternal source." Huh? How does an infinite regression ever end?
What he means is that the quality of infinite defines the quality of eternal (synonymous) and thus ends regression because the regression simply points back to itself (infinity) making it impossible to go anywhere except here and now.
Does anyone know what atheist Matt is talking about at 8:00?
At first I thought he was talking about Aron Ra but I don't think Matt would speak that harshly of him.
I'm also curious.
I wonder if it’s the American atheists guy. David Silverman
Why is an infinite end ok but an infinite start ridiculous?
I absolutely hate the argument "something cannot come from nothing." Who says there was ever nothing? My understanding of cosmology is that energy transformed into matter. That isn't nothing.
I'm curious to know who's Matt talking about at 7:40
The atheist that's a bad person? Me too. Actually, this is gonna bug me.
Who's a Gnostic atheist who Matt doesn't like?
The "Amazing" atheist is my guess. He matches that description
I was wondering the same thing.
Aron Ra? 🤷♂️
"We don't have an explanation for something, so it must be God!"
Only theists make that ridiculous statement about "...if all time is infinite, then we would never get to now.". Physicists NEVER make such a claim, and being in the field, I have never even heard this kind of phrasing. Watching this to the end, the caller is again appealing to "experts" about "everything that exists has a cause". Again, the only people who say this are creationists, not physicists.
Good call.
AC was very respectful and polite.
"If the universe was infinitely old, you could never get to now" is like saying "If there are infinite positive integers you could never count to 12"
The caller was wrong. You could get to now. We know we're at now. You just couldn't get to the beginning of the infinite regress. That's ok, though, because an infinite regress, by definition, has no beginning.
The analogy is flawed because positive numbers have a defined starting point but not a defined end. Start off an infinite number of seconds before now and count your way towards 0 seconds from now. Doesn't matter how fast or how long you count you can never get to now that's more of the point the guy was making.
@@phr00tpie Yeah, but what if there is no starting point? Maybe things in the universe have a clearly defined start an end, but the universe itself is eternal.
@@phr00tpie There are an infinite number of partial seconds in a one-second time interval.
"A Universe From Nothing" By Lawrence Krauss... This is the book which some of the comments seem to be referring to. Well worth a read. Can help open one's mind, but without giving a definite answer as to what created the universe. ( we still don't know)
7:38 who is Matt talking about?
Possibly, David Silverman. (I found the answer in another comment)
I'm an atheist. And, concerning theism, I am also agnostic. But that big, big claim that theists make will need some big, big evidence to convince me, as I see a lot of evidence for absence along with the absence of evidence of God.
Science ie quantum physics have observed particles jumping in and out of existence .
I wonder where they were going?
Science.does.not have anything,bit mearly is the.process to test theories regarding observations made.The observation of such things going in and out, would be what a proposed theory would then need to account.for...
@@LucianCorrvinus It is called Quantum Vacuum Energy, fuckwit.
Xeno's Paradox can be solved using the sums of infinite geometric series.
let T = the time taken to travel the full distance
Let D = the full distance
Sum (1/(2^i) from 0 -> infinity = 1 (It's an infinite geometric series with |r|
THIS KIND OF MAKE ME WISER. IF WE DON'T KNOW, WE MUST MAKE THAT SPACE OPEN.... NO NEED OF SPECULATING AROUND IT. FILLING THE GAP WITH GOD OR ALLAH ETC.. THX FOR THIS VEDIO...
The fact that this guy understands what Matt says around the 16 minute mark but, dishonestly, persists on believing in his made up god baffles me. The comfort of knowing (even if you don't) is preferred to the honesty of admitting that you don't know yet.
There is no god or gods!
@@wesleyalan9179 And them.
"we've never observed something come from nothing"
virtual particles in a quantum vacuum
virtual particles in a quantum vacuum
virtual particles in a quantum vacuum
virtual particles in a quantum vacuum
virtual particles in a quantum vacuum
VIRTUAL PARTICLES IN A QUANTUM VACUUM
holy crap I am tired of having to say this....
That's not an argument that will hold up, sorry to say. Virtual particles are fluctuations of real particles, therefore they have a beginning.
@@sladegrey9272 nobody said they didn't have a beginning, in fact that's the whole point, they have a beginning, but no cause.
What would it matter if they had no beginning, then they would not exist.
But the argument is (and always has been) that nothing that begins can begin without a cause. Virtual particles "begin" without any known cause. Making the argument false.
@@Fraterchaoraterchaos - Then it's not a discussion about something from nothing. It's a discussion about intelligent design. They might be related but they're two different arguments.
@@sladegrey9272 um no.
The statement I was responding to was "we have never seen something come from nothing"
That is, by FUCKING DEFINITION a statement about "something from nothing". At NO POINT in that statement are the words "intelligent design" even mentioned.
Maybe YOU want it to be about ID, but that's not what *I* was responding to... please do not try to tell me what the fuck *I* am talking about, you arrogant asshole.
Fascinating, caller cannot grasp a concept where existence always existed. It "must" be god.. Why cant the universe or the framework that supports it be infinite?
Just a side note... Calculus solves most (if not all) of the problems classical math has with infinity by essentially looking at where the equation is headed, taking it to the "limit" (in this case, infinity) and arriving at a precise answer.
A quick example:
sin(0) = 0
So what does Sin(0)/0 equal? Most people know you can't divide by zero but they also know that anything divided by itself is 1.
Calculus answers the problem by watching the equation *y = sin(x)/x* as x *_approaches_* (but isn't equal to) zero. And if you do that you'll see that the result gets closer and closer to one so that "in the limit" as x gets to 0 the answer is one.
Everything that exists was created by a god.
But the god wasn't created !
Therefore the god doesn't exist.
Logic !
It's amazing to me how many people think that atheism is a position of certainty. It's only normal for people to want to have an answer which is good. The problem is when an answer not available one is made up. It is a significant weakness in the human thought process that has been exploited by not just religion, but also by those so called "self help gurus". As Richard Feynman once said: "It's not always about proving all the time, its about what is more likely or less likely". It may not be a perfect process, but it is certainly better than just making something up.
the religious have slandered us for so long that it's normal for their sheep to think that. It's the single-most common thing I school the religious on when I debate them. Rejecting a claim does not mean we assert the opposite is true.
@@sladegrey9272 Exactly, if most people would admit they don't know, we would have a starting point as long as it is not replaced with something worse.
This man would be so much smarter if he was more open minded.
We have NO WAY to confirm if the universe began to exist!!!
Because the only tools we have "physics" break down before we get that far.
Suggesting that you know what "created" the universe is stupid until we can actually determine if it began.
@Crazy prayingmantis
The universe began to exist is not the correct statement. The correct statement is: The universe began to expand from an initial zero size.
As the expansion of the universe began from an initial zero size, so instead of saying that the universe began to exist, we can say that spacetime began to exist.
Scientists have very recently come to the conclusion that spacetime is not fundamental and that it is emergent. An emergent entity cannot emerge from just anything or nothing; it can emerge from some particular entity or entities only.
One example: Water is an emergent entity. Water can emerge from the chemical combination of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom only; water cannot emerge from the chemical combination of any two elements in the periodic table. For example, water cannot emerge from the chemical combination of hydrogen and chlorine, or from the chemical combination of nitrogen and oxygen, or from the chemical combination of copper and sulfur.
As per scientists, the particular entity from which spacetime can emerge is something non-spatiotemporal. In brief, we can call it NSE (Non-spatiotemporal entity). 'Non-spatiotemporal' is the new scientific term for the old term 'spaceless and timeless'.
This NSE must precede every beginning of the expansion of the universe so that spacetime can emerge from it when the universe began to expand from an initial zero size.
@@udaybhanuchitrakar8812
You don't know what you're talking about
@@crazyprayingmantis5596
And your reply shows you do not know how to counter my argument.
@@udaybhanuchitrakar8812
Because you don't have one
@@crazyprayingmantis5596
Sorry, I could not guess that you were a person having an excessively low level of intelligence. So, I should not have written anything to you that would have been beyond your comprehension.
I'm certain there's no god.
Me too and I hope that to be true after our death
"If I can redefine atheism, atheism is easy to debunk."
It's easy to win if you come in and automatically declare yourself the winner.