Hey, do you know of any resources that explain how much vacuum is recommended for different applications? I've been using the Gast DOA, but I just bought a (very cheap) used Welch 1402N--primarily because I need something that can degass urethane...but is using 29Hg a good idea for wet layup carbon? I've had some issues with parts having a wrinkled surface, it doesn't feel like the vacuum is doing it's job...not sure if the resin, shape of the mold, my technique, or vacuum...
The problem with composites - too many variables! In general for wet-layup you want about 15-20 inHg though in special cases you'll want more. Risk is bleeding out too much resin - this can be adjusted with different release film perforations and bleeder thickness - as well as initial resin content of the material. For infusion you want as much vacuum as possible for the initial pull-down, some time to debulk, and through the actual infusion part. Once you clamp off the resin feed there are lots of good reasons to lower the vacuum (to maybe 15-20inHg) - but I am really not a fan of clamping it off entirely! In this video I did the whole thing with a Gast DOA - just to show it would work fine. With a larger part I would opt for more vacuum. Check out my Troubleshooting Vacuum Infusion article on the explorecomposites.com site - it may help. I'm working on a more complete 'How-to' infusion article but struggling to find time to finish it - soon hopefully!
@@ExploreComposites Thanks! That does help. The resin I have been using is fairly high viscosity, so I may be inadvertently using too much due to it not flowing/ wetting out all that well. The problem area is also the thickest, with 5 layers of 6k. I will be ordering more resin soon, so will try something with a lower viscosity. I like the idea of prepreg for production, but that is still a long way away.
@@fredygump5578 Resin viscosity matters but sometimes thicker is easier than thinner as long as you're not needing to bleed off too much resin. Rolling is helpful. If your parts are small-ish a "wet-preg" method may be helpful. Check out Laminate Sample #15 - which shows the basic process: ruclips.net/video/06-0Vxs_9nY/видео.html
@@ExploreComposites Thanks again! I was wondering about how this is done. I think this is what Mike Patey does, but I haven't seen him show impregnating the fabric. I will definitely try that out when my new molds are done. I think I have just about finalized the design I want. (I'm designing a knee pad with a carbon fiber shell, and covered with urethane overmold).
Hi, are you seeing a noticeable pattern due to the shrinkage of resin in the pattern ? I've used Soric LRC so far and it still needs an external flow medium. i'm contemplating Soric XF for a next project but those are aesthetic carbon fiber panels si I wouldn't want any print through ! Have you tried Soric TF ?
I haven't done a controlled test with LRC vs XF or TF. There's some on the shelf and this is a future sample - might be good to do side by side though! TF is supposed to be best for cosmetics - also comes in gray for use with carbon... haven't tried it though. Even on thin-skinned white gelcoated parts you can often see the LRC cells. Epoxy would solve the print problem but $$ and hassle.
Not at all - it is very bendy and can be sliced and fit easily to compound curves. Makes a nice core option for very curvy parts of foam or balsa cored parts because it is easy to fit.
I haven't ever tested and am not sure how I'd do it... All the samples are different. I guess for the foam-cored ones you could just assume the core is the whole thing and estimate the r or u-value of the core. Being higher density than most insulation I'd imagine it's not ideal!
While comparing Your product to non compacted fiber glass It may not be as resistant to heat. but more resistant then steel. I wanted to know for Green energy engineering. How about uv dedication (lifespan).
@@philhacker1137 Using mix and pour closed cell foam thats like 3-4 lb/f3 and laminating that will yield a VERY high R value with VERY high stiffness. Using vinyl ester resin will make it resistant to UV rays and there are additives to even futher increase that. Maybe even consider aluminum foil backing after the fiberglass or an aluminized fiberglass sheet on one side for additional boosts. You can buy or cast closed cell foam core (they sell it even specifically for AC). I would take a flat glass plane, put a totally flat aluminum foil on top of it, then fiberglass (make sure it is good resin flow as you arent having flow media), then core (maybe score lines in it for resin flow), then fiberglass. Use a reusable silicon bag or second flat glass face/steel caul plate with sealing around it and pull vacuum. Infuse it and pull away. The bottom doesnt need or have mold release because you are bonding the aluminum to the fiberglass, reducing time and steps. The top does need mold release unless you want to somehow double up on the aluminum face. You can simply do aluminum/foam core tho and that will produce structural high-R value products. I hope this helps
This make my infusions look far better.
Thanks for posting!!! 🍻
Glad it was interesting! I'm really enjoying making these sample videos - just a few hours work and I get to learn a lot too.
Hey, do you know of any resources that explain how much vacuum is recommended for different applications? I've been using the Gast DOA, but I just bought a (very cheap) used Welch 1402N--primarily because I need something that can degass urethane...but is using 29Hg a good idea for wet layup carbon? I've had some issues with parts having a wrinkled surface, it doesn't feel like the vacuum is doing it's job...not sure if the resin, shape of the mold, my technique, or vacuum...
The problem with composites - too many variables! In general for wet-layup you want about 15-20 inHg though in special cases you'll want more. Risk is bleeding out too much resin - this can be adjusted with different release film perforations and bleeder thickness - as well as initial resin content of the material.
For infusion you want as much vacuum as possible for the initial pull-down, some time to debulk, and through the actual infusion part. Once you clamp off the resin feed there are lots of good reasons to lower the vacuum (to maybe 15-20inHg) - but I am really not a fan of clamping it off entirely! In this video I did the whole thing with a Gast DOA - just to show it would work fine. With a larger part I would opt for more vacuum.
Check out my Troubleshooting Vacuum Infusion article on the explorecomposites.com site - it may help. I'm working on a more complete 'How-to' infusion article but struggling to find time to finish it - soon hopefully!
@@ExploreComposites Thanks! That does help. The resin I have been using is fairly high viscosity, so I may be inadvertently using too much due to it not flowing/ wetting out all that well. The problem area is also the thickest, with 5 layers of 6k.
I will be ordering more resin soon, so will try something with a lower viscosity. I like the idea of prepreg for production, but that is still a long way away.
@@fredygump5578 Resin viscosity matters but sometimes thicker is easier than thinner as long as you're not needing to bleed off too much resin. Rolling is helpful. If your parts are small-ish a "wet-preg" method may be helpful. Check out Laminate Sample #15 - which shows the basic process: ruclips.net/video/06-0Vxs_9nY/видео.html
@@ExploreComposites Thanks again! I was wondering about how this is done. I think this is what Mike Patey does, but I haven't seen him show impregnating the fabric.
I will definitely try that out when my new molds are done. I think I have just about finalized the design I want. (I'm designing a knee pad with a carbon fiber shell, and covered with urethane overmold).
Really appreciate the library you are creating!!!
Hi, are you seeing a noticeable pattern due to the shrinkage of resin in the pattern ? I've used Soric LRC so far and it still needs an external flow medium. i'm contemplating Soric XF for a next project but those are aesthetic carbon fiber panels si I wouldn't want any print through ! Have you tried Soric TF ?
I haven't done a controlled test with LRC vs XF or TF. There's some on the shelf and this is a future sample - might be good to do side by side though! TF is supposed to be best for cosmetics - also comes in gray for use with carbon... haven't tried it though.
Even on thin-skinned white gelcoated parts you can often see the LRC cells. Epoxy would solve the print problem but $$ and hassle.
is the soric only for flat panels? Beautiful panel
Not at all - it is very bendy and can be sliced and fit easily to compound curves. Makes a nice core option for very curvy parts of foam or balsa cored parts because it is easy to fit.
Can we spray 2k clear coat on top? I am planning to infuse carbon fiber hood using vinyeste resin. Btw, nice informative video.
Yes, clear coat should be fine. You might look into a in-mold clear / gelcoat too...
@@ExploreComposites -
What is the R or U factor for your panels?
Heating and air conditioning factors please.
I haven't ever tested and am not sure how I'd do it...
All the samples are different. I guess for the foam-cored ones you could just assume the core is the whole thing and estimate the r or u-value of the core. Being higher density than most insulation I'd imagine it's not ideal!
While comparing Your product to non compacted fiber glass It may not be as resistant to heat. but more resistant then steel. I wanted to know for Green energy engineering.
How about uv dedication (lifespan).
@@philhacker1137 Using mix and pour closed cell foam thats like 3-4 lb/f3 and laminating that will yield a VERY high R value with VERY high stiffness. Using vinyl ester resin will make it resistant to UV rays and there are additives to even futher increase that. Maybe even consider aluminum foil backing after the fiberglass or an aluminized fiberglass sheet on one side for additional boosts. You can buy or cast closed cell foam core (they sell it even specifically for AC).
I would take a flat glass plane, put a totally flat aluminum foil on top of it, then fiberglass (make sure it is good resin flow as you arent having flow media), then core (maybe score lines in it for resin flow), then fiberglass.
Use a reusable silicon bag or second flat glass face/steel caul plate with sealing around it and pull vacuum. Infuse it and pull away. The bottom doesnt need or have mold release because you are bonding the aluminum to the fiberglass, reducing time and steps. The top does need mold release unless you want to somehow double up on the aluminum face.
You can simply do aluminum/foam core tho and that will produce structural high-R value products.
I hope this helps
How do you regulate vacuum?
With a vacuum regulator - or leaks!
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