Casper fun headcannon here when Athena says Odysseus light went dark I like to imagine she is referring to polities death since in the cut song your light polities says he will be Odysseus light and his death would be that light going dark.
@@_SSCJ *Antinous, pronounced "ANT-in-us" I'm so sorry for the inane correction lol, Jorge saying Antinous's name wrong has caused me such pain that I can't let his misconception become the norm.
You guys I just realized- "So what if I'm the monster, Lurking deep below?! I must become the monster, and then we'll make it home!" "If I fight this monster, is it you I'll find?" Odysseus belives he has to become a monster to reunite with his son ): Telemachus belives he has to fight a monster to reunite with his father :)
I hate you cause this means they might end up fighting when they meet. (I haven't read the Odyssey and I don't want to so I can keep the ending a surprise)
It's also another play on the fact that "men" can be as much a monster as "sirens and a cyclops, giants and a hydra...harpies, and chimera, the minotaur, even cerbrus." But, yeah, my interpretation of the line was that Telemachus believes he'll understand Odysseus by fighting the monster. But the secondary meaning is, in fact, that Odysseus is a monster that Telemachus could come across.
Fun fact, Jorge said that Antinous' music is a combo of electric guitar and trumpet, to show that he is trying to replace Ody and to remind us of Poseidon, another "villain"
he's also confirmed that Telemachus's instruments are a combination of Odysseus, Penelope, and Athena! that being (specifically) an acoustic guitar, string ensemble, and an indie piano, because (although he didnt state it this is my impression) these are the people he idolizes and wants to be like
A cool thing I noticed on the guitar, both from Telemachus' and Antinous' perspective, it's straight chord shreds. Yes, a slide thrown in there and maybe a little melodic picking (can't quite tell if it's being played on guitar or not, but possible), but mostly straight chords with a simple, driving strum pattern. Compared to Odysseus', where solos are thrown in. To me, this is a really creative way to show the difference in skill and experience between the characters. Ody with his experienced and skilled solo shreds contrasting with Antinous trying to replace him and Telemachus striving for his legendary status
@@racheleden9008 i wonder if other children in epic (if any exist) would also generally be multiple instruments because children and very young adults don't usually have their own fully formed sense of identity yet, they just draw from people they idolize (as telemachus is said to be doing)
I just love that in My Goodbye Athena says "You're not looking for a mentor I'm not looking for a friend" and later on Ody in Monster says "I lost my mentor" while Athena in We'll be Fine about Ody "I had a Friend before"
NOT A SPOILER! The funny thing about Telemachus having the “Full Speed Ahead” melody is that “Full Speed Ahead” is the one and only time we hear Odysseus free and happy.
The fact that they refer to Telemachus as a “little wolf” while Poseidon referred to ody’s and his crew as a “pack of wolves”. So ody would also be a “wolf”. It’s the little things that are just 👌😙
@@felixhenson9926 Eh, she's been in his ear for most of his life, telling him to be ruthless and avoid compassion when he's making decisions. There's no way that hasn't influenced him
Fun fact: the "tell me, Athena, why you came to my aid" uses the same melody as a _Polites_ line from a cut song, Ismarus "What keeps you up so late at night, my friend?"
I love the shift from "these monsters" to "this monster" in Legendary. We swap from his idle imagination to the threat he confronts daily- a real monster.
idk if this is technically a spoiler, but antinous has 3 instruments. a grungy guitar(signifying he's a suitor trying to replace ody) a trumpet(because he is to telemachus what poseidon is to ody) and lastly, the fellow suitors, signifying he is leading a group of men(like eurylochus)
Quick notes on "Well be fine": Athena sings the melody Odysseus introduced in "Warrior of the mind" ( the run on the word "mind") And: "then his light went dark" with the context of the cut song "Your light" where Polites sings "let me be your light" implies that she is referring to his death (Jorge won't let us escape Polites). Also: this saga really deserves to be called Wisdom Saga because Teagan Early as Athena was just dominating this with amazing vocals in a cast with allround amazing vocalists!
I'm not sure what stories Telemachus grew up hearing about his dad. He likely did know that Athena mentored Odyssues or was at least like a Patron, of sorts. But Athena never called Odysseus her friend while they were together, so there's no reason Telemachus would assume she's talking about his dad. For her part, Athena 110% knows who she's talking to 😂😂 my interpretation of "We'll Be Fine" was that she missed Ody and couldn't sleep from their fall out, and partially blamed herself for how things went wrong. So she thought, "I screwed up with him, he doesn't want to hear from me. But he always cared about his son, I'm sure he'll be okay if I watch over Telemachus for him."
13:48 The way he screams “Teagan” kills me everytime. Great reaction and also the the name of the suitor with whom Telemachus is fighting, his name is Antinous
One of Athenas alternate names is Pallas Athena, a name she took in memory of her foster sister from when she lived in the house of Triton (Poseidons son). They were close friends and were one day asked by the gods to sparr together during some festiveties. Armed with wooden spears and shields Athena started out good but soon Pallas got the upper hand. Zeus then, scared that Athena would loose and bring shame to him in front of everyone, distracted Pallas in the precis moment Athena countered. Since Pallas didnt defend she was hit by the full force of the spear and mortally wounded. So maybe theres a reason Athena is hesitant of calling Ody a friend eve after all these years, but now she realise maybe the world would be a better place if she had friends again.
Hearing Casper say "Athena?!" when listening to the WISDOM saga, is pretty funny to me. I know he was pointing out her theme in the background of the music, but still makes me giggle.
Not all the cut songs, there’s too many of them for Jorge to properly produce, so he would only do the cut songs that had a large portion already done( or those further in production).
I've mostly presumed that Athena didn't tell Telemachus that her friend was Ody because a) she hasn't seen him in 10 years and has no idea if he's dead or not and b) given how bad she feels, I don't think she wants to tell Telemachus 'yeah I screwed up with your dad and possibly pushed him to make the wrong move with the Cyclops and maybe either got him killed or trapped and unable to come home'.
Can we talk about how Athena said "his light went dark", and its such a meaningful lyrics because: *His light,* Polites, died just before Athena and him split apart. Anyone remembers the scrapped song 'Your Light'? Yeah... Odysseus lost His Light just before Athena left.
It's so fun how when telemachus mentions fighting monsters, the music plays his dads guitar, and when he talks about keeping his mom safe it's strings like her music!!! so clever :)
"what's a title that a goddess could lend if i'll never sleep at night" sung with anger and resentement into "i could sleep at night" sung with remorse and regret... it always gets me
Did u know that in “we’ll be fine”, there is the warrior of the mind tune/motif. It shows how similar Odysseus and Telemachus are and how they’re both Athena’s emotional support humans.
right! you also notice that Athena is doing Ody's run at the end of notes, while Telemachus is doing one that is similar but not the same, and she switches to his!
Am I the only one who also kinda hears a slowed down version of My Goodbye in We'll be Fine? "One day, you'll see what I'm saying, one day you might understand..." "Maybe, If I made a different call, maybe if I hadn't missed it all..."
Definitely anything that sounds like it could call back to Warrior of the Mind and My Goodbye is intentional. And of course there’s also influence from Legendary
Ngl I've seen at least one reactor go the entire saga thinking Telemachus was younger Odysseus, so I definitely let out a sigh of relief when Casper immediately identified him correctly.
No im fairly sure she knows Telemacus is Odyssyeus's son. Shes been with Odysseys since he was a teen, so it would make sense that she at least saw that he had a child
@@chaotic_vibz3173 That’s exactly what the commenter said, he/she was explaining on how Telemachus had most likely no way of knowing that she was talking about his dad.
The editing in these videos gives me life Oh hey, commentary about diagetic vs nondiagetic choirs, nice! Fun fact about Ruthlessness since Casper used it as an example: it's actually one time when a god's background choir actually is diagetic! The laestrygonians, after whom the 'Land of the Giants' is named, are singing and partaking in the destruction as they're devout followers of Poseidon. It's just extremely rare to see an animatic include that because more people = more work.
I just can't stop thinking about the fact that Athena recognized Odyseus as her former friend. In My Goodbye when Odyseus is so hurt by the fact that Athena emphasizes to him that he was the only one who saw their relationship as one of friendship: "you're not looking for a mentor, I'm not looking for a friend" or in Warrior of the mind "Ody: Goddes and man, bestest of friends.....Athena: We'll see where it ends.... Ody: ok" and now she doesn't reject Telemachus when he calls her his friend in her first decent conversation, gives me so many mixed feelings, makes me so helpless and sad for Odyseus who ended up thinking for so many years that he had completely lost his mentor, but at the same time I feel so much joy and relief from the presence , Athena's help and remorse, which by helping Telemachus feels like such a beautiful moment within all the misfortunes of history. The first time I heard this saga, all the songs made me cry. In Legendary I did it because Telemachus showed his naivety when thinking about defeating monsters and we knew well the hell that Odysseus suffered when facing them, it hurts to know his longing to meet his father. In Fight Little Wolf I did it because of the relief and nostalgia that listening to Athena brought me. I already explained to you what made me sentimental about the song We'll be fine and I won't say about the others because they weren't seen in this video.
Ahh the good ole Athena simping! I do it every time I hear her voice! After obsessively listening to many of these songs, I love how much the instruments that represent both Athena and Telemachus seem to play around and dance with each other in many different sections of We'll Be Fine. Love me a good ballad!
Wisdom saga living up to its name, with Athena showing she's been reflecting on her actions and gained some wisdom - not only in that she sees she made a mistake in how she parted ways with ody, but (at least in my opinion) also in seeking the opinion of a mortal for a matter that is about a mortal, instead of just applying the logic of gods, as that is what caused the rift in the first place.
The fact that capers favorite song is Your Light and he didn't even notice that the "tell me Athena why you came to my aid" is exactly in the rythm of Polites' "What keeps you up so late at night my friend" from Ismarius is criminal
The difference I find between "The main bad guy suitor guy" and all the other antagonists since now is twofold: 1) He's intentionally an asshole. His voice, his inflections, it gives "You are meant to hate this guy" vibes. 2) He's a human. Literally the only human antagonist aside from Eurylicus (and yes I count him as one since he derailed most of the journey singlehandedly), and at least Eury is "just a man". Antinous is framed as a man that is a monster, an actual monster, because everyone else had some kind of reason and some inherently messed up logic, but consistently messed up logic. Polyphemus lost his best friend. Killing 600 humans as a result seems pretty normal to him, expected even, and you can't even blame him too much since he's right. A bit of wine could not make me be chill with someone coming into my home and shooting my cat, why would he be fine with Ody doing just that? Imma mess up the name so let's just say The wind god gave a challenge. Did she know that Ody's crew will open the bag? Yes, at least 99% she did, but even so it was a test and it was fair. She even help him later to escape because he was smart enough to keep the bag. Consistency. Posseidon? Come on, Ody gave his name, ocupation and place of domicile to a son of posseidon, then Eury brought everyone straight to him. It was impossible for him to not do something at that point. Is it cruel and unjust to kill so many? Yes, but it's a god and unjust is expected. Circe? She protects her own fiercely. She's evil, don't get me wrong, eating people is never really "ok", especially when it's preemptive "self defense", yet still she is fair enough when she sees that Ody is not a monster, but just a man trying to go home. Unlike those that came before, she knew then that he wouldn't let his own attack her nymphs, so she became helpful. And Zeus in thunder bringer? Well, Helios got mad, and whenever some important god gets mad and doesn't get their way they threaten the world. (in this case, in the odyssey at least, Helios threatened to take the sun to the underworld, plunging the earth into eternal night and basically killing most things) He's a judge and he gave his sentence, he is being as fair as he can be considering the crime. Everyone else had some reason to be unfair, some explanation for why they would think like they do. Antinous doesn't. He's just a bad guy, a really bad guy that wants power and will treat the queen as his personal crown if he isn't stopped. We couldn't argue with the enemies before, but this guy? we can do more than argue.
I do love this analysis of all the antagonists. (And also the acknowledgement that Eurilochus is at least 70-80% of the reason Odysseus is gone so long and the crew never makes it home. Seriously, you couldn't wait until you got to shore to open the bag you were told had the storm that mysteriously dissappeared just before Odysseus came back? Really?)
Casper your reaction to hearing Teagan is so real. Especially when you heard the Teagan Belt™ at around 15:06. Thank you for simping with Teagan with us, and sharing your reaction. Also, I love your sense of humour especially in your vid edits!
i just wanna say I'm flabbergasted by your content, you're one of the few content creators whose video I watch entirely, without skips or jumping around or hurrying it up. All you say is valuable and interesting, you're actually engaged in the things you react to, you're fun and lighthearted...really a 10/10 channel and so underrated!
30:12 The „War is over“ section are the notes of the danger motif, but it sounds so upbeat here that it almost could be a „danger is over“ motif. I was just listening for it and thought „wow, even there, danger lurks apparently“ and then Casper made that comment, completely contradicting my train of thought 😂
@@OznerockI might be wrong but I think it's actually one of Odysseus' father Laetus (who was basically a powerful bandit lord in his own story, if a lot softer when he appears in the Odyssey) or grandfather's (can't remember the name, but he was a son of Hermes) titles which Odysseus inherited.
@@anarchyknight6990 Ohhh a Perseus storyline, if they make this they should explore Medusa’s Backstory (The Athena - Poseidon kind) cus i feel that Most adaptations always portrays her as a Normal Monster
@@Totally_a_Hoomanit is became in the older versions of the myth (and probably the original) she is just some monster (she and her sisters were the offspring of the Gorgonein, a giant vaguely described monster that is a counterpart to the goat that nursed Zeus) so was always a Monster, and had no pre-existing connection to Athena (although she may have still had sex with Poseidon at some point witb Chysoar and Pegasus being their children might be this old, but they might just be hers in these older versions not entirely sure as they're not often mentioned much in regards to the story). The whole "she was turned into a monster by Athenq and raped by Poseidon" things were probably added by the Roman poet Ovid in his metamorpheses (which was intentionally showing the gods as awful, and played fast and loose with already established stories).
It's very interesting, In Warrior of the Mind Athena had the melody and young Ody sang harmony behind her. Here in We'll be Fine, there is call backs to The Warrior of the Mind motif but when Tel and Athena sing together, they are either singing unison or Tel has the melody and Athena has harmony. A clear indication of her uncertainty and her desire to find a new path forward.
The whole 20 years thing is because Epic takes place after the Trojan War which took 10 years, so by the time Epic starts it had already been 10 years and then the events of Epic also span 10 years so it's been 20 years since Odysseus left home
The thing I love about "We'll Be Fine" is it shows a different Athena. She's not the coldhearted mission-focused goddess she once was. She now understands that she handled the situation on Polyphemus's mind terribly. The old Athena wouldn't be capable of such self-awareness. She should've told Odysseus that Polyphemus is her cousin before he doxed himself.
6:50 I actually love that you said that, I want to see your reaction when Athena got introduced again, I was catching up with epic when listening and not paying attention to the saga names and I was shocked when Athena comes to help IT WAS SO EMOTIONAL FOR ME HWHSHSHS
I love that at the end of My Goodbye Athena tells Ody “I’m not looking for a friend,” (essentially denying their friendship) but the next time she speaks about him it’s, “I had a friend once, and he was a lot like you.”
my interpretation is she knows he is ody's son but doesn't want to outright tell him she's talking about his father, because its not the right time to say it yet.
It has been 20 years, 10 years spent in Troy, 3 years out at sea and then 7 years since Thunder Bringer where Ody was stranded on Calypso's island. Unfortunately it is kind of impossible to know about those 7 years on audio-only until Love in Paradise unless you've been keeping track independently, or have outsider knowledge.
Well antinous didn’t say it’s been 20 years without a king in legendary so if you were keeping track (which lets be honest we all were since the 12 long years incident lmao) then you could kinda figure out the time jump from thunder bringer
I’m ready for Casper, to just experience the Wisdom Saga. - Praying he has visuals. (Mortius too when he does// or is this an Open Arms Duo eventual thing?)
This title hurts me, iykyk. No spoilers. Loved seeing you react because you pick out all the little recurring themes that Jorge uses which I think is like part of the magic of Epic. And that feeling when you're jamming to a part of the somg you have heard before and then it progresses to the new stuff and its like whaaaatttt ❤❤❤ big same. Also I think the backup vocals behind Telemachus are also the suitors, reinforcing that they are always present, a looming force over him, where the suitors backing up Antinuous are less "in the background" and now fully supporting the singer. Like how the crewmen in Act 1 are often in the background or call and reaponse w Odysseus and interact differently with Eurylochus. I didn't see the suitors and the crew as parallels until I wrote this but ykno...
I just wanted to say every time you adjusted your headband during Little Wolf, I couldn’t help but see Polities Ghost watching this fight and getting aggressively protecting of Telemachus during this fight sequence.
What’s super fun is in My Goodbye, Odysseus says: What's a title That a Goddess could lend If I'll never sleep at night? And then in We’ll Be Fine, Athena says: Maybe, if I helped you reach your goal Life could be that bright I could sleep at night Each reflect how their decisions could or did lead to guilt and sleeplessness.
Diegetic means that other characters are aware of the singing. Non-diegetic means it’s background for the audience. A character who breaks the 4th wall (e.g. Deadpool) could hear non-diegetic music if that makes sense.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Watch the ENTIRE R/A Unedited here (that includes Love In Paradise + God Games) www.patreon.com/posts/wisdom-saga-r-111069251?Link&
you made a mistake on the description
Casper fun headcannon here when Athena says Odysseus light went dark I like to imagine she is referring to polities death since in the cut song your light polities says he will be Odysseus light and his death would be that light going dark.
Legendary is a ride and a half.
Remind me again why not react to the livestream?
You spotted Athena in Legendary! Eve Mortius couldn't do that!
Suitors: FLY LITTLE WOLF
Telemachus: *dramatically flies away with odysseus’s owl traits*
HOOOOOO
Maybe thats why athena likes them
Athena: Yayyy go Telemachus bestieeee!!
Antiniuos: Fly Little Wolf fl- wait don’t do that.
@@_SSCJ *Antinous, pronounced "ANT-in-us"
I'm so sorry for the inane correction lol, Jorge saying Antinous's name wrong has caused me such pain that I can't let his misconception become the norm.
Oh i just realised, athenas "i could sleep at night" is a callback from odysseus' "if ill never sleep at night" from my goodbye!
When you realize what athena meant by "then his light went dark" is that polites died as a reference to your light
I hate it 😭😭 NOT YOUR LIGHT
"I wish I could so I could bring the world some light"
every 2 seconds y'all find a new way to hurt me
YEEESS i thought that too
HEY WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT FOR
I WAS NOT READY FOR THAT
You guys I just realized-
"So what if I'm the monster, Lurking deep below?! I must become the monster, and then we'll make it home!"
"If I fight this monster, is it you I'll find?"
Odysseus belives he has to become a monster to reunite with his son ):
Telemachus belives he has to fight a monster to reunite with his father :)
I hate you cause this means they might end up fighting when they meet. (I haven't read the Odyssey and I don't want to so I can keep the ending a surprise)
@@josechaparro5911even those of us who have read it don’t know what will and won’t be in epic, so it’ll be a surprise for all of us!
It's also another play on the fact that "men" can be as much a monster as "sirens and a cyclops, giants and a hydra...harpies, and chimera, the minotaur, even cerbrus."
But, yeah, my interpretation of the line was that Telemachus believes he'll understand Odysseus by fighting the monster. But the secondary meaning is, in fact, that Odysseus is a monster that Telemachus could come across.
Yeah, Boon Alina noticed that in her reaction
Or that he'll die fighting this monster and reunite with his father...
Fun fact, Jorge said that Antinous' music is a combo of electric guitar and trumpet, to show that he is trying to replace Ody and to remind us of Poseidon, another "villain"
he's also confirmed that Telemachus's instruments are a combination of Odysseus, Penelope, and Athena! that being (specifically) an acoustic guitar, string ensemble, and an indie piano, because (although he didnt state it this is my impression) these are the people he idolizes and wants to be like
A cool thing I noticed on the guitar, both from Telemachus' and Antinous' perspective, it's straight chord shreds. Yes, a slide thrown in there and maybe a little melodic picking (can't quite tell if it's being played on guitar or not, but possible), but mostly straight chords with a simple, driving strum pattern. Compared to Odysseus', where solos are thrown in. To me, this is a really creative way to show the difference in skill and experience between the characters. Ody with his experienced and skilled solo shreds contrasting with Antinous trying to replace him and Telemachus striving for his legendary status
Also jorse said that antinous music also has a cello ensemble like Penelope and a crowd of suitors backing him up like eurylocus
@@racheleden9008 i wonder if other children in epic (if any exist) would also generally be multiple instruments because children and very young adults don't usually have their own fully formed sense of identity yet, they just draw from people they idolize (as telemachus is said to be doing)
Also need to note that no one talks about Tele calls Athena his friend and she accepts it when she rejected it when Ody calls her a friend. Growth.
Yes!!!! And that she admits that he was a friend and that she misses him
I just love that in My Goodbye Athena says "You're not looking for a mentor I'm not looking for a friend"
and later on Ody in Monster says "I lost my mentor" while
Athena in We'll be Fine about Ody "I had a Friend before"
That's what I'm saying, I also noticed that, this is beautiful character development
NOT A SPOILER! The funny thing about Telemachus having the “Full Speed Ahead” melody is that “Full Speed Ahead” is the one and only time we hear Odysseus free and happy.
... We don't have the same definition of "funny".
Wow I hate that you're right.... Damn
@@mayadargeon2172 😅
Hahahah soooooo funny...right wow.....
This is not very funny as you.
The fact that they refer to Telemachus as a “little wolf” while Poseidon referred to ody’s and his crew as a “pack of wolves”. So ody would also be a “wolf”. It’s the little things that are just 👌😙
I was going to say this exact thing!
I love that Athena is really considering that it was her influence that turned Odysseus into an asshole lol
Yeah, it wasn't rly tho. Maybe she could've prevented it at best but she didn't cause it.
@@felixhenson9926 Eh, she's been in his ear for most of his life, telling him to be ruthless and avoid compassion when he's making decisions. There's no way that hasn't influenced him
@badlyplanned9259 That doesn’t mean Athena didn’t have some sort of influence on him.
“Then his light went dark because he turned into a monster rawr rawr rawr” 🤣 love that
Fun fact: the "tell me, Athena, why you came to my aid" uses the same melody as a _Polites_ line from a cut song, Ismarus
"What keeps you up so late at night, my friend?"
Polites' character traits haunting us throughout the story. What great writing
Casper HAS heard Your Light, so I'm surprised he didn't catch this.
I KNEW THAT SOUNDED FAMILIAR
You also realized that?! YES FINALLY SOMEONE AGREES with me!!
@@aadityayanamandra8846 I mean, to be fair, that line wasn't from "Your Light", it was from a different cut song called "Ismarus".
ALEXANDER AYERON, POSIREN, TEMELONCHUS, BANANA PEELS, WET HADES
Every time "Alexander Aaron" flies past the screen...
I just can't xD
So simple but good
I'm at minute 18 and I've been laughing out loud EVERY single time it appeared. I think my humour might be broken 😂
He is not gonna live that down
Alexander Burr, sir
"IT IS ME THE GREAT MIGHTY POLITES- " BROOOO 😭
"IT IS ME THE GREAT MIGHT FLAT PANCAKE"
@@Razdasoldier But why though :(
Imagine the video was just a video of a pancake 😂
I love the shift from "these monsters" to "this monster" in Legendary. We swap from his idle imagination to the threat he confronts daily- a real monster.
idk if this is technically a spoiler, but antinous has 3 instruments.
a grungy guitar(signifying he's a suitor trying to replace ody)
a trumpet(because he is to telemachus what poseidon is to ody)
and lastly, the fellow suitors, signifying he is leading a group of men(like eurylochus)
Quick notes on "Well be fine":
Athena sings the melody Odysseus introduced in "Warrior of the mind" ( the run on the word "mind")
And: "then his light went dark" with the context of the cut song "Your light" where Polites sings "let me be your light" implies that she is referring to his death (Jorge won't let us escape Polites).
Also: this saga really deserves to be called Wisdom Saga because Teagan Early as Athena was just dominating this with amazing vocals in a cast with allround amazing vocalists!
NU UH I FORGOT ABOUT YOUR LIGHT THIS MAKES SENCE NOW......
JORGE WHEN I FIND YOU.. WHEN I FIND YOU..
@crystalkatsuka When you find him you will do what? He has the power to drag Polites's death into every aspect of the play. He has all the power.
Good thing it _is_ called Wisdom Saga lol
@@RazdasoldierExactly! He's not a player, he's a puppeteer!
I'm not sure what stories Telemachus grew up hearing about his dad. He likely did know that Athena mentored Odyssues or was at least like a Patron, of sorts. But Athena never called Odysseus her friend while they were together, so there's no reason Telemachus would assume she's talking about his dad.
For her part, Athena 110% knows who she's talking to 😂😂 my interpretation of "We'll Be Fine" was that she missed Ody and couldn't sleep from their fall out, and partially blamed herself for how things went wrong. So she thought, "I screwed up with him, he doesn't want to hear from me. But he always cared about his son, I'm sure he'll be okay if I watch over Telemachus for him."
13:48 The way he screams “Teagan” kills me everytime. Great reaction and also the the name of the suitor with whom Telemachus is fighting, his name is Antinous
One of Athenas alternate names is Pallas Athena, a name she took in memory of her foster sister from when she lived in the house of Triton (Poseidons son). They were close friends and were one day asked by the gods to sparr together during some festiveties. Armed with wooden spears and shields Athena started out good but soon Pallas got the upper hand. Zeus then, scared that Athena would loose and bring shame to him in front of everyone, distracted Pallas in the precis moment Athena countered. Since Pallas didnt defend she was hit by the full force of the spear and mortally wounded.
So maybe theres a reason Athena is hesitant of calling Ody a friend eve after all these years, but now she realise maybe the world would be a better place if she had friends again.
Hearing Casper say "Athena?!" when listening to the WISDOM saga, is pretty funny to me.
I know he was pointing out her theme in the background of the music, but still makes me giggle.
6:27
“Probably drowning, I don’t know “
PFFTT why did I find that so hilarious
jorge didn't add hades so CASPER DID
No one tell him that Jorge WAS planning on Hades, wrote music for it… and then made a deliberate decision to cut it…
🤫👀
@@J.D.onthegohe also did say he’s considering to eventually put out the cut songs so fingers crossed 🤞.
Not all the cut songs, there’s too many of them for Jorge to properly produce, so he would only do the cut songs that had a large portion already done( or those further in production).
CHICO AND TEMELONCHUS 😭
I've mostly presumed that Athena didn't tell Telemachus that her friend was Ody because a) she hasn't seen him in 10 years and has no idea if he's dead or not and b) given how bad she feels, I don't think she wants to tell Telemachus 'yeah I screwed up with your dad and possibly pushed him to make the wrong move with the Cyclops and maybe either got him killed or trapped and unable to come home'.
Can we talk about how Athena said "his light went dark", and its such a meaningful lyrics because:
*His light,* Polites, died just before Athena and him split apart.
Anyone remembers the scrapped song 'Your Light'? Yeah... Odysseus lost His Light just before Athena left.
Both Casper and Mortius' reactions to Athena (Teagan) coming back to help are amazing. She was dearly missed! ❤
That agressive guitar in little wolf actually belongs to Antinuous (Alexander Aryon) because hes trying to replace Odysseus
It's so fun how when telemachus mentions fighting monsters, the music plays his dads guitar, and when he talks about keeping his mom safe it's strings like her music!!!
so clever :)
"what's a title that a goddess could lend if i'll never sleep at night" sung with anger and resentement into "i could sleep at night" sung with remorse and regret... it always gets me
Did u know that in “we’ll be fine”, there is the warrior of the mind tune/motif. It shows how similar Odysseus and Telemachus are and how they’re both Athena’s emotional support humans.
right! you also notice that Athena is doing Ody's run at the end of notes, while Telemachus is doing one that is similar but not the same, and she switches to his!
@@Moongirl12121 That’s what I meant.😅
Am I the only one who also kinda hears a slowed down version of My Goodbye in We'll be Fine?
"One day, you'll see what I'm saying, one day you might understand..."
"Maybe, If I made a different call, maybe if I hadn't missed it all..."
definitely intentional
Definitely anything that sounds like it could call back to Warrior of the Mind and My Goodbye is intentional. And of course there’s also influence from Legendary
Ngl I've seen at least one reactor go the entire saga thinking Telemachus was younger Odysseus, so I definitely let out a sigh of relief when Casper immediately identified him correctly.
Absolutely crying 😭 HOW. Context clues who?
She does know that Telemacus is Odysseus’s son but he doesn’t know the she’s talking about Odysseus
No im fairly sure she knows Telemacus is Odyssyeus's son. Shes been with Odysseys since he was a teen, so it would make sense that she at least saw that he had a child
@@chaotic_vibz3173 That’s exactly what the commenter said, he/she was explaining on how Telemachus had most likely no way of knowing that she was talking about his dad.
I just want to give our little wolf props for standing up for his mom and doing his best to fight such a horrible person.
Little Wolf son of the head of the Wolf Pack swimming with the sharks.
CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS!! DISNEY PRINCESS TELEMACHUS AND DISNEY VILLIAN ANTINOUS ARE THE BEST!!! :3
I LOVE watching reactors' reactions when Teagan's voice shows up 😂
The editing in these videos gives me life
Oh hey, commentary about diagetic vs nondiagetic choirs, nice! Fun fact about Ruthlessness since Casper used it as an example: it's actually one time when a god's background choir actually is diagetic! The laestrygonians, after whom the 'Land of the Giants' is named, are singing and partaking in the destruction as they're devout followers of Poseidon. It's just extremely rare to see an animatic include that because more people = more work.
Obsessed with the, what I think is "If Hades were in God Games"? Is that your voice? It's so satisfying to listen to
That's me yeah! :D Thanks!!!
6:54 I have to say... I only realized Athena would be in wisdom saga once I heard her motif too KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
I just can't stop thinking about the fact that Athena recognized Odyseus as her former friend. In My Goodbye when Odyseus is so hurt by the fact that Athena emphasizes to him that he was the only one who saw their relationship as one of friendship: "you're not looking for a mentor, I'm not looking for a friend" or in Warrior of the mind "Ody: Goddes and man, bestest of friends.....Athena: We'll see where it ends.... Ody: ok" and now she doesn't reject Telemachus when he calls her his friend in her first decent conversation, gives me so many mixed feelings, makes me so helpless and sad for Odyseus who ended up thinking for so many years that he had completely lost his mentor, but at the same time I feel so much joy and relief from the presence , Athena's help and remorse, which by helping Telemachus feels like such a beautiful moment within all the misfortunes of history. The first time I heard this saga, all the songs made me cry. In Legendary I did it because Telemachus showed his naivety when thinking about defeating monsters and we knew well the hell that Odysseus suffered when facing them, it hurts to know his longing to meet his father. In Fight Little Wolf I did it because of the relief and nostalgia that listening to Athena brought me. I already explained to you what made me sentimental about the song We'll be fine and I won't say about the others because they weren't seen in this video.
Ahh the good ole Athena simping! I do it every time I hear her voice! After obsessively listening to many of these songs, I love how much the instruments that represent both Athena and Telemachus seem to play around and dance with each other in many different sections of We'll Be Fine. Love me a good ballad!
how could he not predict that wisdom hades would be in the wisdom saga
THE POILITES COSPLAY IS PEAK COSPLAY I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL
On this hill? Not in this cave?😊 (I'm sorry 😅)
IS THAT A POLITES COSPLAY!?!? I MISSED IT.
Hard to tell when it is not flat and covered in blood.
Y’all. The jokes are falling flat at this point
Almost as flat as Polites 🥞
These jokes are dark
But atleast everyone's seeing Eye to Eye...
Dam these jokes are dark 😭
Like ody without his light
Wisdom saga living up to its name, with Athena showing she's been reflecting on her actions and gained some wisdom - not only in that she sees she made a mistake in how she parted ways with ody, but (at least in my opinion) also in seeking the opinion of a mortal for a matter that is about a mortal, instead of just applying the logic of gods, as that is what caused the rift in the first place.
We love how MORTIUW only did the first two and casper is doing the first three lol
why the "W" instead of an "S", is it a mistake or some reference?
@@the0neBoio misspelled
@@Rin_Loves_Oreos I read it as MORTI-UWU
@@KaulitzWolf 🤣
As a patreon I can confirm this will be a Legendary video 💜
“Legendary”😂
I havent found this comment yet but Mason your editing adds so much to these and Mortius' videos
Casper edited this
The fact that capers favorite song is Your Light and he didn't even notice that the "tell me Athena why you came to my aid" is exactly in the rythm of Polites' "What keeps you up so late at night my friend" from Ismarius is criminal
But that isn’t Your Light so…
The difference I find between "The main bad guy suitor guy" and all the other antagonists since now is twofold:
1) He's intentionally an asshole. His voice, his inflections, it gives "You are meant to hate this guy" vibes.
2) He's a human. Literally the only human antagonist aside from Eurylicus (and yes I count him as one since he derailed most of the journey singlehandedly), and at least Eury is "just a man". Antinous is framed as a man that is a monster, an actual monster, because everyone else had some kind of reason and some inherently messed up logic, but consistently messed up logic.
Polyphemus lost his best friend. Killing 600 humans as a result seems pretty normal to him, expected even, and you can't even blame him too much since he's right. A bit of wine could not make me be chill with someone coming into my home and shooting my cat, why would he be fine with Ody doing just that?
Imma mess up the name so let's just say The wind god gave a challenge. Did she know that Ody's crew will open the bag? Yes, at least 99% she did, but even so it was a test and it was fair. She even help him later to escape because he was smart enough to keep the bag. Consistency.
Posseidon? Come on, Ody gave his name, ocupation and place of domicile to a son of posseidon, then Eury brought everyone straight to him. It was impossible for him to not do something at that point. Is it cruel and unjust to kill so many? Yes, but it's a god and unjust is expected.
Circe? She protects her own fiercely. She's evil, don't get me wrong, eating people is never really "ok", especially when it's preemptive "self defense", yet still she is fair enough when she sees that Ody is not a monster, but just a man trying to go home. Unlike those that came before, she knew then that he wouldn't let his own attack her nymphs, so she became helpful.
And Zeus in thunder bringer? Well, Helios got mad, and whenever some important god gets mad and doesn't get their way they threaten the world. (in this case, in the odyssey at least, Helios threatened to take the sun to the underworld, plunging the earth into eternal night and basically killing most things) He's a judge and he gave his sentence, he is being as fair as he can be considering the crime.
Everyone else had some reason to be unfair, some explanation for why they would think like they do. Antinous doesn't. He's just a bad guy, a really bad guy that wants power and will treat the queen as his personal crown if he isn't stopped. We couldn't argue with the enemies before, but this guy? we can do more than argue.
I do love this analysis of all the antagonists.
(And also the acknowledgement that Eurilochus is at least 70-80% of the reason Odysseus is gone so long and the crew never makes it home. Seriously, you couldn't wait until you got to shore to open the bag you were told had the storm that mysteriously dissappeared just before Odysseus came back? Really?)
CASPER LISTENED TO THE MOTHER EP AND I ONLY JUST FOUND OUT AHHHHHHH sorry I'm just obsessed with her and the Mother EP genuinely changed my life
its so goooooooooooood
i love how it looks like he was saying oooooh its too perfect 🤣🤣 3:20
Casper your reaction to hearing Teagan is so real. Especially when you heard the Teagan Belt™ at around 15:06.
Thank you for simping with Teagan with us, and sharing your reaction.
Also, I love your sense of humour especially in your vid edits!
Teagan is so good at playing Athena :D
My favorite song is 100% We’ll Be Fine. I love the harmonies and the “Your a good kid” “Thanks”
i just wanna say I'm flabbergasted by your content, you're one of the few content creators whose video I watch entirely, without skips or jumping around or hurrying it up. All you say is valuable and interesting, you're actually engaged in the things you react to, you're fun and lighthearted...really a 10/10 channel and so underrated!
30:12 The „War is over“ section are the notes of the danger motif, but it sounds so upbeat here that it almost could be a „danger is over“ motif. I was just listening for it and thought „wow, even there, danger lurks apparently“ and then Casper made that comment, completely contradicting my train of thought 😂
Love the reference of little wolf when Poseidon called Odyssey and his crew a pack of wolves. Nice nod.
It's one of odysseus' titles.
@@OznerockI might be wrong but I think it's actually one of Odysseus' father Laetus (who was basically a powerful bandit lord in his own story, if a lot softer when he appears in the Odyssey) or grandfather's (can't remember the name, but he was a son of Hermes) titles which Odysseus inherited.
Mortius didn't notice the little Athena part in legendary.
STOP, THAT "this is funnee" WAS SO CUTE!!!! 8:01😭
I love how you and Mortius just started kicking your feet, giggling, tucking you hair behind your ears whenever Teagan/Athena shows up lmao me to frfr
Ok, I declare Hades is the biggest Hype man for Poseidon, and Casper should voice Hades if Jorge does another musical project.
Why would Hades agree with Poseidon? That seems completely out of character
We need an Epic the Musical cinematic universe lmao. Maybe Jorge can so another hero like Hercules or Perseus. That would be so fun.
@@anarchyknight6990 Ohhh a Perseus storyline, if they make this they should explore Medusa’s Backstory (The Athena - Poseidon kind) cus i feel that Most adaptations always portrays her as a Normal Monster
Nah. Hades is pissed at Poseidon for sending OVER 500 MEN to the Underworld, _at once._
@@Totally_a_Hoomanit is became in the older versions of the myth (and probably the original) she is just some monster (she and her sisters were the offspring of the Gorgonein, a giant vaguely described monster that is a counterpart to the goat that nursed Zeus) so was always a Monster, and had no pre-existing connection to Athena (although she may have still had sex with Poseidon at some point witb Chysoar and Pegasus being their children might be this old, but they might just be hers in these older versions not entirely sure as they're not often mentioned much in regards to the story).
The whole "she was turned into a monster by Athenq and raped by Poseidon" things were probably added by the Roman poet Ovid in his metamorpheses (which was intentionally showing the gods as awful, and played fast and loose with already established stories).
Well I guess we know how long Mortius’ video is
Yeah lol glad they are scheduled for one after the other and not over lapping
if you trust Casper's skills with numbers...
@@glowface79I hear it’s as good as jorges lol
@@ceceduncan4615"TWELVE LONG YEARSSSS, SINCE I HAVE SEEN MY WIFE!"
@@neonpluralhahaha
That instrument that Telemachus has is apparently called an Indie Piano according to Jorge
It's very interesting, In Warrior of the Mind Athena had the melody and young Ody sang harmony behind her. Here in We'll be Fine, there is call backs to The Warrior of the Mind motif but when Tel and Athena sing together, they are either singing unison or Tel has the melody and Athena has harmony. A clear indication of her uncertainty and her desire to find a new path forward.
The few seconds of sicko mode made me spit out my drink and cough violently 😂 your editor almost killed me /j
I edited this myself lmao - but glad to hear it
The whole 20 years thing is because Epic takes place after the Trojan War which took 10 years, so by the time Epic starts it had already been 10 years and then the events of Epic also span 10 years so it's been 20 years since Odysseus left home
Okay, Jorge. You have your Hades RIGHT HERE!
Voices with _Poseidon_ ? Never heard of him. I only know Wet Hades.
The thing I love about "We'll Be Fine" is it shows a different Athena. She's not the coldhearted mission-focused goddess she once was. She now understands that she handled the situation on Polyphemus's mind terribly. The old Athena wouldn't be capable of such self-awareness. She should've told Odysseus that Polyphemus is her cousin before he doxed himself.
30:21 . To me this kinda sounds like the danger motif except for the last part is higher
Im literally laughing for minutes straight because of "Alexander Aaron" lol thank you... just made my day
The fact i listened to Love in Paradise and i rlly went "Dude Caspwrs gonna bawl." HAVE FUN MAN
6:50 I actually love that you said that, I want to see your reaction when Athena got introduced again, I was catching up with epic when listening and not paying attention to the saga names and I was shocked when Athena comes to help IT WAS SO EMOTIONAL FOR ME HWHSHSHS
I love that at the end of My Goodbye Athena tells Ody “I’m not looking for a friend,” (essentially denying their friendship) but the next time she speaks about him it’s, “I had a friend once, and he was a lot like you.”
Casper and names will forever be iconic 😂❤
Ok so yes Hades isn't in the Odyssey but! Can we all agree Casper would be a perfect Hades?? XD
I swear you and Mortuis are synced cuz you both said “full speed ahead 1:35
I love you reacting to tne end of legendary with "KNOCK HIM OUT!" you and aunty athena are on the same side. fitting that the next song is a FIGHT!
my interpretation is she knows he is ody's son but doesn't want to outright tell him she's talking about his father, because its not the right time to say it yet.
I just realized, the suitors call Telemachus Little Wolf, and in Ruthlessness Poseidon Odysseus and his fleet to a pack of wolves :O
Man, I love your appreciation to the music. I'm very ignorant about it so listening to your insight is so interesting!
It has been 20 years, 10 years spent in Troy, 3 years out at sea and then 7 years since Thunder Bringer where Ody was stranded on Calypso's island. Unfortunately it is kind of impossible to know about those 7 years on audio-only until Love in Paradise unless you've been keeping track independently, or have outsider knowledge.
Well antinous didn’t say it’s been 20 years without a king in legendary so if you were keeping track (which lets be honest we all were since the 12 long years incident lmao) then you could kinda figure out the time jump from thunder bringer
I’m ready for Casper, to just experience the Wisdom Saga. - Praying he has visuals. (Mortius too when he does// or is this an Open Arms Duo eventual thing?)
Mortius has watched the visuals Cas music then together Mortius shows Casper visuals on open arms
This title hurts me, iykyk. No spoilers. Loved seeing you react because you pick out all the little recurring themes that Jorge uses which I think is like part of the magic of Epic. And that feeling when you're jamming to a part of the somg you have heard before and then it progresses to the new stuff and its like whaaaatttt ❤❤❤ big same.
Also I think the backup vocals behind Telemachus are also the suitors, reinforcing that they are always present, a looming force over him, where the suitors backing up Antinuous are less "in the background" and now fully supporting the singer. Like how the crewmen in Act 1 are often in the background or call and reaponse w Odysseus and interact differently with Eurylochus. I didn't see the suitors and the crew as parallels until I wrote this but ykno...
1: the costume looks amazing!!!
2 : you ATE with those high notes Casper!
3 : te/mo voice is so incredibly brilliant! We all love her ❤
I just wanted to say every time you adjusted your headband during Little Wolf, I couldn’t help but see Polities Ghost watching this fight and getting aggressively protecting of Telemachus during this fight sequence.
2:38 This is everyone after seeing the Livestream
Painfully vibing along to all the songs 😭😭😭😭
I think there's a danger motif at the end of "Little Wolf" just before that Telemachus asks his question to Athena
In We'll be fine, the line "And then his light went dark" try listening to the cut song Your light, again after knowing that line.
What’s super fun is in My Goodbye, Odysseus says:
What's a title
That a Goddess could lend
If I'll never sleep at night?
And then in We’ll Be Fine, Athena says:
Maybe, if I helped you reach your goal
Life could be that bright
I could sleep at night
Each reflect how their decisions could or did lead to guilt and sleeplessness.
13:32 Just vibing along to the music that it takes him a moment to register what the lyrics said
And then him looking around thinking “did anyone else hear that??” Even though it’s in his headphones and he’s in a room by himself😂
I think (and totally just me) the Athena's motif in Legendary is meant as the moment Athena actually noticed Telemachus!
every time he says alexander aaron kills meeeeee
Diegetic means that other characters are aware of the singing. Non-diegetic means it’s background for the audience. A character who breaks the 4th wall (e.g. Deadpool) could hear non-diegetic music if that makes sense.
everytime i watch one of casper's videos and he says something musically smart, i exhale happily and say, "casper's so cool"
Hades just logged onto the God Game
How is this so funny? The humor is on point as always, props to your Editor and to you for just being so freacking entertaining. :)
Casper edited this video
@@Morganb912amazing