Hi! I’ve been a fan since mortius’ first epic reaction so it’s mega cool you got to see my animatic :D Hope you enjoyed it (and the hand signal was intentional, Antinous is a slimeball)
Hey! In case you read this, wanted to say your ‘Thunder Bringer’, ‘Legendary’, _and_ ‘Little Wolf’ are my favorites of all of them. I adore the scene in Thunder Bringer where Penelope fades away, leaving only Zeus, and there are too many in the others to list that are my favorites 🩵 (🤔Though, the Athena Quick Thought for “Uppercut him. Now.” in particular _slapped_ )
I actually saw an interesting article about The Odyssey, particularly Penelope's situation. In Ancient Greece, a woman (particularly one of Penelope's station) could not be left as a widow. She was obligated to be loyal to her husband if he's still alive, but she was also obligated to remarry if Odysseus was dead. And at this point in the Odyssey, it's been 10 years since the end of the Trojan War. 10 years of not knowing if he's alive or dead. So she's in a really hard position by the expectations & conventions of Ancient Greek society.
I noticed that, too. Gotta love when other creators do something that shows up in other creator’s work. I’ve seen Casper and Mortius in the comments in so many other creator’s reactions.
@@Azziyaisalwaysonline yep! I’ve actually met CyYu at an anime convention, and he is still one of my favorite convention interactions, since he stuck to his character Cyno’s personality and told us a bad dad joke.
The reason why Telemachus is listing those monsters is because he HAS heard of stories of them as a warning story. People during that actually believed in these monsters, it was their way of explaining weird things happening. “Hey how did the ship full of crew suddenly become empty?” Damn sirens got to them. “How did this ship get wrecked so badly???” Those folks must have ran into Scylla sucks for them I guess. To us as modern day people we know these are just story but to these people they were very real and tried to warn everyone about them to avoid you know, dying. This also applies to Folk Tales about Fairies and the Fae. Sure to us they were nothing more than crazy story but to those people that was them explaining why people would just disappear into the woods. It was their way of saying “Hey you need to be very careful or else the Fae will get you!!” These stories are warning tales for these people at the time so you know, they don’t die. It’s just Telemachus retelling the stories he has heard his whole life. Think of it as his version of kids stories.
And a core piece of evidence within the musical is the fact that Odysseus even recognised Sirens before meeting them. The only time he was particularly caught off guard mythologically was when it came to there being multiple Cyclopes on the island
@@MrJoeyWheelerYup that too. You can technically count that line in Full Speed Ahead the “But the problem’s not the distance it’s what’s lie in between” line to be specific
I know everyone’s sad that they aren’t reacting to Gigi’s "We’ll be fine" but give other animatic creators a chance for once.. there are lot of other animators who deserve as much praise as Gigi. Plus they probably are gonna react to her "We’ll be fine" animatic for a separate video and other animatics they didn’t react to.
I had already accepted they were going to react to Gigi's, because it was inevitable. I am so pleasantly surprised that they are reacting to this one first, since it's my favorite and I don't have Patreon. I know it's just because Gigi's wasn't out yet when they recorded this, but still!
It's really nice to see smaller creators like myself get some reactions too! I love Gigi, and I love anniflamma, but because of how popular they are it can be difficult to be seen unless you release your stuff super quickly 😅
on the subject of the "hades wasnt a thing yet when the odyssey was written"... kinda? hades has really never shown up much in stories that arent specifically about him or his house, but he is *referenced* in the odyssey, especially when they're actually in the underworld. however, the story of the odyssey predates homer's writing of it, by somewhere between 300-500 years. and in between the story's birth and homer's recording of it, there was a nearly 400 year long dark age where we have basically no written records, where seemingly a LOT of the gods we now consider big shots in the pantheon were created, or had their roles shuffled around-- Hades being theorized to be both, an offshoot of pre-dark ages (mycenean) posidon left to fill the role of king of the underworld. but also, again, writing about hades and the underworld gods in general was considered rather icky by the ancient greeks overall, and in the story of the odyssey his inclusion wouldn't have really changed anything lol. tldr: technically, hades was already an established member of the pantheon by the time homer was writing, but he was fairly new and also nobody wanted to talk about him too much so he didnt get included anyways :)
I also love the fact that during one of the few times he is mentioned in the Odyssey, he is as you would expect, mentioned in the same breath as Persephone, but the Odyssey refers to her as dread Persephone, and I kind of think that's funny given the public consensus of Persephone as a goddess of perpetual sunshine or Good times, and the Odyssey in one breath lets you know that the person we grew up believing was the literal Greek version of Satan, is really just a kind of passive dude who only messes with you if you break into his house, and Persephone is the actual one you have to watch out for (I've heard that when Odysseus goes through the underworld he actually assumes that it's Persephone screwing with them, rather than Hades, that's a funny little role reversal we've done in modern times.)
@@dragansnyder2786 YEP! She's actually an older goddess than Hades is (as in, we've got evidence of her existing far earlier than we have evidence of Hades), so it kinda makes sense that she'd be scarier lol
@@fromhigherthings5168 if I'm not mistaken she comes from the times when Poseidon was King of the underworld? My brain is kind of failing me right now I can't remember if the older version of Poseidon was King of the underworld or King of the gods, know that there's no reference to Persephone being kidnapped at all, but now I just can't remember which of the roles Poseidon filled in micanaen mythology, it's probably the Persephone was ruler of the underworld because that would make sense for the whole dread Persephone thing, but now I'm just typing in a stream of consciousness, so I'll just cut myself off now.
@@dragansnyder2786 from what people can tell (from what little mycenaean writing can be read), king of the gods and King of the underworld were the same thing! that version of the myth is a lot ickier (Poseidon is her dad AND the one who kidnaps Persephone, for one) and there's a word amount of horses involved but. yeah Persephone was DEFINITELY more established as a force. not to mention the whole mycenaean mystery cult around her and her mother....
YES YES YES I SEE ARTEEST AND DUVETBOX IN THAT THUMBNAIL LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO WE WIN THESE I will say once again, whenever you do alternate animatics for thunder bringer, PLEASE do duvetbox, they did an AMAZING depiction of Zeus Edit: yeah, arteest's depiction of We'll Be Fine made me cry SO HARD
Just to inform Casper abt Hades, he was totally a thing in the Odyssey i think he didnt exist in the mycenaean or minoan cilizations (civilations that dates back of what we know as ancient greece and where a lot of hellenic gods come from) so there was no mention of Hades on those texts and Poseidon seem to be both god of the sea and the underworld, my point is that Hades is a 100% hellenic god but im not sure if there is a homeric hymn to him (bc it was rare to write abt gods of the underworld)or if it was lost
I was also just reading up on that and yeah Hades did exist during the Odyssey, Hades is the oldest of the 3 brothers, but a couple of reasons for not being mentioned or depicted is 1) His name is derived from the meaning of the Unseen One so unless you are dead or the like I don't think you would see him unless he reveals himself as he did have the Invisibility Helmet, 2) depending when they visited the Underworld in the Odyssey as it is said Hades does not really visit Olympus he could of been with Persephone as she spent 6 months of the year not in the underworld as the Godess of Spring he went with her I believe. I don't know if any of this is right just what I perceived and collated together from reading so I could be wrong.
@@Linzi86 oh i havent thought abt it that way thats really interesting :D i almost always assume that ppl at the time didnt like to write abt the gods of the underworld bc of the fear of thinking abt their mortality but yeah i think that they are both there in the underworld at the moment bc Ody has to sacrifice a ram(? and a sheep to Hades and Persephone and also Ody thinks that Persephone is punishing him when he cannot hug the soul of his mom or well he thinks that a lot of the things that happen there is of bc Persephone probably showing that she was more fear then Hades himself (im just rambling at this point)
@@fabycutedark they could of been there yes especially with the sacrifices Ody has to do, I don't know about the about the fear of mortality with the Ancient Greeks but I don't think they feared Hades as he was the God of the Underworld not of Death that was Thanatos and Hynos and their sister I forgot the name of, Hades maintains the balance of the underworld and was generally seen as a neutral God and was passive unless you upset the balance of the universe that he prosided over, (I'm rambling now lol)
@@Linzi86 totally, this is all what i think and dont know if its correct but there is no god thats view as bad but they were all fear out of respect equally Hades may not be the god of death but he was still king of the underworld where all mortal end up so some ppl view him as a protector, terrifing ruler or both (english is not my first language but this is fun xd)
I don't think Antinous is YOUNGER than Telemachus, but he is certainly not MUCH older. Theres a bigger chance that he was at most a preteen when the war started, as the young kids were left behind. ESPECIALLY since he call Tele "Boy". why would he call him that if he was younger than him, and especially in that tone of voice. Tele is 20 years old. Antinous is likely mid twenties at least to mid thirties. Antinous is an adult, like the suitors. Telemachus is barely becoming an adult by the standards of the time. (everything I could get real quick says 20 in most of greece for boys) Antinous is also kind of the "lead" suitor. Grown men would not let a technical child be ahead of them. he would have to be one of the oldest, or at least in the middle
Yes. He was certainly under 15 when the war started. Had he been older than 15, he would have joined the army (like Achilles). Antinous is only a few years older than Telemachus.
For most of Ancient Greece (Sparta excepted) the age that a person joined the military was 18. So the oldest Antinous could be is 27. All of the suitors would probably be 20-27 years old. Bunch of MILF fanboys, LOL!
There was, actually, a kid (I don't remember his name). He was same age as Telemachus, and he was the son of an old friend of Odysseus. When Odysseus came, he gave the young boy a chance to leave, but he didn't. Maybe that's who they're referring to? But he was certainly not Antinous
We will never stop loving Polites, but Telemachus is starting to replace him as my favorite character, and I hate myself for saying that. Penelope raised him well, and Odysseus would be so proud of him if & when they meet in-person.
Hades is already a thing when the Oddyssey is written since on it's prequel The Illiad, he was mentioned quite a few times albeit with different titles like "He who has many guest" (i think that's one of his titles not sure if it's accurate tho). They usually mention Hades with those kinds of epithet since it is believed that mentioning them by their actual name will make them take notice of you and him being a God of the Underworld, usually means that will be bad news. They do that thing with Persephone, too.
I remember a while ago in thunder bringer animatic, they might do a live stream of other people animatics like we want them to react to Neal's Ruthlessness
I highly recommend mikuchis’ ‘Love in Paradise’. They truly popped off with the environment. Their Time Dive was very creatively shown, and emotions are so perfectly conveyed. 10/10
I'm sure people said this in the live chat, but as far as I know Antinous IS young but he's older than Telemachus, Odysseus knew (and I think held or cared for? unsure) Antinous when he was very young, so he was around before Odysseus left
Slight correction (not arguing about Antinous’ age), but the one Odysseus held and cared for was Eurymachus, another one of the suitors (not to be mixed up with Eurylochus, of course). (It’s however probably still likely that Antinious is also slightly older than Telemachus)
I personally think Hades is not represented because he is NOT one of the big 12. The Big 12 are Zeus, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Aphrodite, Athena, Artemis, Apollo, Ares, Hephaestus, Hermes, and either Hestia or Dionysus.
Antinuous is canonically (from the Odyssey) older than Telemachus but younger than Odysseus. The 600 men under Ody's command would have represented all of the grown men in fighting shape on Ithaca at the start of the Trojan war. All of the suitors were left behind because they were children or young teens at the time. So by the Wisdom Saga, Odysseus is probably at least in his mid-40's, Antinuous is early 30's or so, and Telemachus is barely 20. To compare to our current generations, if Ody and his crew were Gen X, the suitors would be millennials and Telemachus is Gen Z.
SPOILERS: This actually becomes a key plot point at the end of the Odyssey after Ody slaughters all the suitors, because two entire generations of the noble men of Ithaca are dead, leaving only old men and young boys.
YAY I made it to another video! Thank you for reacting 🥺 I'm glad we got to talk! If you end up going back to watch any of my other things, I reccomend Ruthlessness, def my fav animatic hehe
5:04 Mortius and Casper, Greek Mythology was (and still is) a Religion, called Hellenism, they believe in Sirens, just as Christians believes in Angels. Thank you for you time.
8:32 That's a misconception. Many people(including myself at first) mistake Antinous of Ithaca and Antinous of Bithynia. The ladder died when he was 19. The suitors(including Antinous) on the other hand were all about 25-35, since they were basically men who were barely too young to be forced to join the Trojan war(had less then 16-18 years old when it started)
10:30 ish Hades is in The Iliad though... I believe he gets a quick description as a god and is mentioned multiple times. Edit: interestingly if I remember right Homer describes him as hateful towards mortals but in pretty much every other myth after that he's probably in the top 5 gods you'd want to try and negotiate with... cuz compared to his brothers he's pretty fking chill. Edit 2: 26:52 ... how did they not talk about how our boy Telemachus pulls Athena out of the shadows of her depression and *into the light*?
something i want to mention, telemachus is shown to be portrayed as smart like odysseus. he draws his sword on antinous, but moves to his fists because he knows he's more likely to walk away from a fist fight than a sword fight
Oh wow. I think Archie’s version of Little Wolf is my favourite so far. I love all the different style of art each animator brings ti the different songs. They all do amazing work. Well done to everyone.
I know a lot of people are probably asking for Gigi’s ‘We’ll Be Fine’, but there’s one by a creator named SincerelyMaxx who did a really great one. It’s a very good animatic, with a dash of angst. No hate on anyone else, but theirs is my favorite 🩵
Also apparently, antinuos is never actually given an age in The Odyssey, and the one you've been hearing about is from a different myth, you're still kind of right because the consensus seems to be that antinuous is somewhere between 25 and 26, so they aren't too far apart in age, but for someone as arrogant as him having five or six years on telemachus would probably represent total superiority
27:59 hear me out, what if athena giving telemachus the helmet is like her accepting him as her 'warrior' sort of thing, just like a thought.. but its so adorable
5:20 To be fair we all know about things that exist in the world that we never seen in person. In their reality it's just a fact that this things exist.
TheeArteest has my favorite Suffering/Different Beast animatics, and Duvetbox has my favorite Thunder Bringer. Good choices! If you do more animatic reactions, maybe you could check out Irunaki? Their design for Athena is absolutely stellar.
If you guys ever do alternate animatics i hope you guys check out duvetbox's Thunder Bringer, duvetbox is new to the EPIC scene but as you can see, their animatics are AMAZING
I absolutely adore when we get to see everyone's beautiful art, hard work, and help more people learn that they exist! Let's lift up more rising artistic stars!
There is a 19 year old Antinous, but he was a lover of the Roman Emperor Hadrian in the 2nd century CE. Odyssey/Epic Antinous is of unspecified age, but probably safe to assume at least 10 years older than Telemachus.
In Casper’s defense on calling Poseidon hades , some early regional Mycenaean cities like pylos may have worshipped Poseidon as a god of the underworld, some myths suggest an entry to the underworld is at the bottom of the sea, however hades soon became the norm for an underworld deity. The problem with Greek mythology is it varies from city to city, ESPECIALLY the stories like the Iliad and the odyssey where in cities. In Athens, homosexuality was actually banned for a while . So the relationship would have Achilles and Patroclus would definitely be two roomates in their portrayals of the Iliad. While in Thebes, some period scholars write about same sex unions happening at temples of Dionysus , so the pairing would likely be seen as a tragic romance. Ancient Greek society was so much more complicated than we think and it’s just so fascinating! tl;dr Ancient Greece is very complicated and Casper may have been right about Poseidon being “hades” if you ask an early Mycenaean
Cyclopes are quite numerous, and aren't just ployphemus and his kin, or the elder cyclopes that assisted the gods in the giganomachy war and forged zues lighting bolts
While I see why they reacted to Archii’s Little Wolf, I wish they’d also react to the one by Duvetbox or Irunaki ! Those two are my personal favourite :)
eyy, history thoughts: so, Cerberus is one hundred percent mentioned in the homeric hymns. However, he also gets mentioned as "the hound of Hades" (or more specifically as one of the versions of the name, which in homeric greek would've often been Aidoneus or Aides. But neither of them were particularly important for the greater story, at most episodic. Also a side note: Homer didn't write the epics. He's associated with them, but he was a singer/performer, rather than a scribe, and what we call "homeric hymns" are someone's recollections and editorials of what epics Homer and other travelling performers told as the great stories of the time, not only having shared them between each other, but also gaining them from folklore and religious teachings. It's a whole thing that was like, knocked into my head in secondary, so I can't just let you guys go on thinking he authored them.
I'm very sad that you didn't comment on the Open Arms motif at the end of We'll be Fine. Almost like Telemachus is the new source of optimism and positivity in the story.
Hmmmm, so I guess we won't be getting your reaction to anniflamma's God Games considering how early these animatics are and how it came out in the same day as your announcement which is weird because I don't think there were any reaction worthy animatics for God Games (I guess you guys are gonna make it a patreon exclusive thing) before it I definitely think you guys should wait a little bit next time
Yes that is what I was thinking. Cause in the canon he still has scars but they really just make him look like an experienced fighter (kinda like one of Ody’s crew) not to make him look evil, his words and actions are what make him a villain.
Omg duvetbox! Theyre my favorite epic animator, they have my FAVORITE Suffering and Different Beast animatics. Id love to see you react to their other work!
Its on Mortius Monday musical list he said on one of the premiere chats like six and hadestowns cause he said this channel is that mortius shows casper what he knows and vice versa and things that they don't know would do it on their own channels and maybe come together on this onr
It's on Mortius musical Monday list like six and hadestown, he said in one of the premiere chats cause he also said this channel is he shows what he knows to casper like Enchanto/Hamilton and vice versa and if they both don't know it, they do it on their own channels
10:19 this isn't true, Hades was already depicted as king of the underworld by the time the Odyssey was composed (750-650 BCE), for perspective, the Theogony was written 730-700 BCE, a whole new god isn't going to show up with parentage and a realm in just 20 to 80 years, he just wasn't directly referred to often because the ancient greeks were afraid of him, it's why most people still call him by the name of his realm today, his real name was rarely written down outside of niche cults out of fear so "Lord of Hades" eventually got shortened to "Lord Hades" and just stuck, I think whoever told you this either heard that Persephone was mentioned in the Odyssey while her husband wasn't, or they heard there are no Mycenaean records of Hades, both of which are true, but came to the wrong conclusion
The google search tor Antinous' age is 19, but it's a different person, some Roman dude. He's probably like... maybe 25-26 maybe? Or he just wasn't someone who was there during the Helen suitor thing
I highly recommend checking out purplesky's little wolf animatic even as a patron exclusive, it's so good and I haven't seen it talked about at all (and also virusAP's scylla it's pretty good)
Yaaaaaaayyyy! I just watched pretty much all of your guy’s EPIC content. I just listened to it this week and now I’m obsessed. EPIC is a disease and I don’t want the cure.
no gigi animatics, HERESEY (yes ik it was recorded before gigi's animatic, it's a joke) also I love how mortius' power died the moment he started getting less family friendly lol
Hades was definitely a thing by the time of Homer in the 700s BCE, I believe you are referencing historical Mycenean Greece where the tales of Jason, Hercules, and the Trojan War are thought to have happened. The Trojan War does correspond to some kind of real world events that happened ~1200 BCE right before Mycenean Greece collapsed into their Dark Age ~1150 BCE. The odd state of Hades in this Era comes from the surviving writing of Mycenean Greece (which was not the greek alphabet), which has been found to mention gods like Poseidon and Persephone, but not Hades. The usual assumption is that fear and distrust of the seas led Mycenean Greece to make the Ocean and the Underworld into the single domain of Poseidon; who also may have been seen as head of the gods rather than Zeus during this era. This can still be partially seen in the Odyssey in the fact that a cave in the sea is the gateway to Hades. But by the time that the Dark Age ended ~750 BCE, the order and position of the gods was roughly what we now know. Do keep in mind the Greek Gods weren't just a story but an active religion which lived and evolved over the millennia with heavy regional variations and no single true canon. Pan and Hermes were once one and the same, Aphrodite was once much more warrior like, Dionysus was reviled and later loved by the greeks. And things continued to evolve until the last greco-roman pagans died out in at the soonest in the mid-9th century. But you could argue the gods continued to evolve for millennia more as even in the 1700s, some greeks prayed to Demeter who had for centuries now been called Saint Demeter.
4:58 Hey. The answer is literarry "His mom". A woman who keeps the kindom safe, Ody`s straith and dogs wining is defenetly raising her son with some knowlege about comone stuff. Not to mention she most likely aware of Athena, so she have at least a pressure from a godness to make her little pup smart and educated as much as possible. +++ Athena didn`t say her name, but Telemacus recognised her and asked "Why Athena?" . From whom you may quess he knows about her? Not from his papa :^)🙃
I've always liked in this version of Legendary that Telemachus DOES have some sword training, if only on a basic level. It would make sense as his father is a commander of the army that he'd be taught at least a little, or even just watch the soldiers training and mimic them.
8:37 actually... Antinous could be younger than Odysseus but older than Telemachus, give or take around 26-28 years old. Antinous could have been an adult by the time Odysseus finished the war and gotten older since. It's also important to note that some of them are foreigners, with only 12 suitors be Ithacan natives.
The thing Casper mentioned about Antinous’ age is interesting. I wouldn’t go quite as far as to say Antinous would be younger than Telemachus but they definitely could be close in age. Antinous would have had to be a child when Odysseus left for the Trojan war so at most he would be 16 years older than Telemachus (about 36) but it is likely he is younger than that. I still think Antinous would have to be a little older than Telemachus given the way he behave towards him and Telemachus’ comment about ‘108 old faces’. This could mean that some of the suitors are older, but given that Antinous is the leader of the suitors he can’t be the youngest of the group. Overall I imagine that Antinous is probably in his mid-20s
8:32 About Antinous, I think people confused the character of the odyssey with a Greek who was the lover of the Roman emperor Hadrian, this Antinous really was young and He died at the age of 20. Antinous' age is not mentioned in the odyssey, but I believe that the age difference between him and Telemachus is not very large. He's probably 20 and something, while Telemachus is 19/20 years old 10:20 Okay, about Hades, his figure and the concept of the underworld were important elements in Greek religion and mythology. He was already the god of the underworld and was part of oral traditions and previous religious cults, before Homer. Although, the most famous mentions of him are in Homer's poems. Hades is mentioned in the odyssey despite not appearing directly, the absence of his presence may be more a matter of narrative choice on Homer's part. Since, the odyssey is more focused on Odysseus' interaction with the gods and mortals.
I mean Hades was considered more passive than the other gods. He was probably the least likely to mess with humans. There is a really funny short that I can’t remember who did it, but it shows Odysseus pacing and singing “Monster”. Hades comes out and looks at Odysseus but then just goes back to work. 🤣 I like that as canon.
Actually, in the stage directions for the Circe Saga, we know that she summons a chimera, which Odysseus summons a cyclops to counter. The hydra can reference either Scylla or Charybdis, harpies & mermaids are frequently given the hypnotic melodies of sirens in fantasy, Cerberus is the guardian of *_the Underworld,_* and the idea of one of the suitors being Cretan is far from impossible. *_ALL_* of the monsters reference events in The Odyssey, and I think that's kinda neat
![SHOWING HIM ENCANTO (Disney) | FIRST-TIME Reaction/Analysis [PART 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/594tMgfyukE/mqdefault.jpg)
More EPIC content on Patreon! www.patreon.com/openarmsreactions
NOTE - This was recorded before Gigi, AnniFlamma etc. uploaded their animatics! :)
will you react to those on yt as well?? 🥺
Please check out Duvetbox’s Little Wolf too!
Please react to them too 🥺🥺 pls
Hey look up ' hades was not impressed by Performance' It's a short and it's hilarious.
Edit Read some of the comments to 😂
Please react to AnniFlamma ( God Games) it´s so good😍🥺
Mortius isnt family freindly for 5 seconds and the universe breaks something
That's what I thought lol
Same, i though mason made the glitch for fun. I was wrong
I like how the second Mortius does anything non-PG rated his entire power system nopes out.
WINIONS... assemble
I have :D
"SOMETIMES K***ING IS A MUST"
"...what"
*POP POP POP POP*
IM here! Had to get the holy moly whatd i miss
@@navimcfarland9113 the depression saga
Hi! I’ve been a fan since mortius’ first epic reaction so it’s mega cool you got to see my animatic :D Hope you enjoyed it (and the hand signal was intentional, Antinous is a slimeball)
We LOVED it - Thank you so much for sharing your art with us! (and thanks for the insight haha) -C
Hey! In case you read this, wanted to say your ‘Thunder Bringer’, ‘Legendary’, _and_ ‘Little Wolf’ are my favorites of all of them. I adore the scene in Thunder Bringer where Penelope fades away, leaving only Zeus, and there are too many in the others to list that are my favorites 🩵 (🤔Though, the Athena Quick Thought for “Uppercut him. Now.” in particular _slapped_ )
Duvetbox i absolutely adore your animatic for Legendary
I actually saw an interesting article about The Odyssey, particularly Penelope's situation. In Ancient Greece, a woman (particularly one of Penelope's station) could not be left as a widow. She was obligated to be loyal to her husband if he's still alive, but she was also obligated to remarry if Odysseus was dead. And at this point in the Odyssey, it's been 10 years since the end of the Trojan War. 10 years of not knowing if he's alive or dead. So she's in a really hard position by the expectations & conventions of Ancient Greek society.
So, I watched CyYu react to Epic animations. I couldn’t help but notice his chat contained “Wet Hades” during Ruthlessness. I’m just sayin
I noticed that, too. Gotta love when other creators do something that shows up in other creator’s work. I’ve seen Casper and Mortius in the comments in so many other creator’s reactions.
@@loubug9309 If Divine Sugar Mama is Mortius legacy, then Wet Hades IS Casper legacy. And it will forever be in our Fandom
Cyyu fan spotted 👀
@@Azziyaisalwaysonline yep! I’ve actually met CyYu at an anime convention, and he is still one of my favorite convention interactions, since he stuck to his character Cyno’s personality and told us a bad dad joke.
@@loubug9309 what was the joke? Was it wasabee
The reason why Telemachus is listing those monsters is because he HAS heard of stories of them as a warning story.
People during that actually believed in these monsters, it was their way of explaining weird things happening. “Hey how did the ship full of crew suddenly become empty?” Damn sirens got to them. “How did this ship get wrecked so badly???” Those folks must have ran into Scylla sucks for them I guess.
To us as modern day people we know these are just story but to these people they were very real and tried to warn everyone about them to avoid you know, dying.
This also applies to Folk Tales about Fairies and the Fae. Sure to us they were nothing more than crazy story but to those people that was them explaining why people would just disappear into the woods. It was their way of saying “Hey you need to be very careful or else the Fae will get you!!”
These stories are warning tales for these people at the time so you know, they don’t die. It’s just Telemachus retelling the stories he has heard his whole life. Think of it as his version of kids stories.
Yeah. These are just all creatures that exist in their world. And the ones Odysseus faces are very well-known ones, so it makes sense.
And a core piece of evidence within the musical is the fact that Odysseus even recognised Sirens before meeting them. The only time he was particularly caught off guard mythologically was when it came to there being multiple Cyclopes on the island
@@MrJoeyWheelerYup that too. You can technically count that line in Full Speed Ahead the “But the problem’s not the distance it’s what’s lie in between” line to be specific
I know everyone’s sad that they aren’t reacting to Gigi’s "We’ll be fine" but give other animatic creators a chance for once.. there are lot of other animators who deserve as much praise as Gigi. Plus they probably are gonna react to her "We’ll be fine" animatic for a separate video and other animatics they didn’t react to.
I had already accepted they were going to react to Gigi's, because it was inevitable. I am so pleasantly surprised that they are reacting to this one first, since it's my favorite and I don't have Patreon. I know it's just because Gigi's wasn't out yet when they recorded this, but still!
Plus this most likely is weeks before gigi came out
This was filmed a lot before Gigi and anni release as pinned comment says
Honestly I hope that someday the see Gigi’s animatic, their gonna die when the see the ending lol
It's really nice to see smaller creators like myself get some reactions too! I love Gigi, and I love anniflamma, but because of how popular they are it can be difficult to be seen unless you release your stuff super quickly 😅
Man I really hope they do Duvetbox’s Little Wolf eventually. The fight choreography is so good in that one
on the subject of the "hades wasnt a thing yet when the odyssey was written"... kinda? hades has really never shown up much in stories that arent specifically about him or his house, but he is *referenced* in the odyssey, especially when they're actually in the underworld. however, the story of the odyssey predates homer's writing of it, by somewhere between 300-500 years. and in between the story's birth and homer's recording of it, there was a nearly 400 year long dark age where we have basically no written records, where seemingly a LOT of the gods we now consider big shots in the pantheon were created, or had their roles shuffled around-- Hades being theorized to be both, an offshoot of pre-dark ages (mycenean) posidon left to fill the role of king of the underworld. but also, again, writing about hades and the underworld gods in general was considered rather icky by the ancient greeks overall, and in the story of the odyssey his inclusion wouldn't have really changed anything lol.
tldr: technically, hades was already an established member of the pantheon by the time homer was writing, but he was fairly new and also nobody wanted to talk about him too much so he didnt get included anyways :)
I also love the fact that during one of the few times he is mentioned in the Odyssey, he is as you would expect, mentioned in the same breath as Persephone, but the Odyssey refers to her as dread Persephone, and I kind of think that's funny given the public consensus of Persephone as a goddess of perpetual sunshine or Good times, and the Odyssey in one breath lets you know that the person we grew up believing was the literal Greek version of Satan, is really just a kind of passive dude who only messes with you if you break into his house, and Persephone is the actual one you have to watch out for (I've heard that when Odysseus goes through the underworld he actually assumes that it's Persephone screwing with them, rather than Hades, that's a funny little role reversal we've done in modern times.)
@@dragansnyder2786 YEP! She's actually an older goddess than Hades is (as in, we've got evidence of her existing far earlier than we have evidence of Hades), so it kinda makes sense that she'd be scarier lol
@@fromhigherthings5168 if I'm not mistaken she comes from the times when Poseidon was King of the underworld? My brain is kind of failing me right now I can't remember if the older version of Poseidon was King of the underworld or King of the gods, know that there's no reference to Persephone being kidnapped at all, but now I just can't remember which of the roles Poseidon filled in micanaen mythology, it's probably the Persephone was ruler of the underworld because that would make sense for the whole dread Persephone thing, but now I'm just typing in a stream of consciousness, so I'll just cut myself off now.
@@dragansnyder2786 from what people can tell (from what little mycenaean writing can be read), king of the gods and King of the underworld were the same thing! that version of the myth is a lot ickier (Poseidon is her dad AND the one who kidnaps Persephone, for one) and there's a word amount of horses involved but. yeah Persephone was DEFINITELY more established as a force. not to mention the whole mycenaean mystery cult around her and her mother....
@@fromhigherthings5168 yes the two queens… do I see a sarcastic productions fan? Because these are almost word for word the things red says 😉
YES YES YES I SEE ARTEEST AND DUVETBOX IN THAT THUMBNAIL LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO WE WIN THESE
I will say once again, whenever you do alternate animatics for thunder bringer, PLEASE do duvetbox, they did an AMAZING depiction of Zeus
Edit: yeah, arteest's depiction of We'll Be Fine made me cry SO HARD
Sammmme. I teared up a fair bit
I absolutely love duvetbox's Little Wolf animatic. I love their character design for Antinuous & Telemachus.
Just to inform Casper abt Hades, he was totally a thing in the Odyssey i think he didnt exist in the mycenaean or minoan cilizations (civilations that dates back of what we know as ancient greece and where a lot of hellenic gods come from) so there was no mention of Hades on those texts and Poseidon seem to be both god of the sea and the underworld, my point is that Hades is a 100% hellenic god but im not sure if there is a homeric hymn to him (bc it was rare to write abt gods of the underworld)or if it was lost
I was also just reading up on that and yeah Hades did exist during the Odyssey, Hades is the oldest of the 3 brothers, but a couple of reasons for not being mentioned or depicted is 1) His name is derived from the meaning of the Unseen One so unless you are dead or the like I don't think you would see him unless he reveals himself as he did have the Invisibility Helmet,
2) depending when they visited the Underworld in the Odyssey as it is said Hades does not really visit Olympus he could of been with Persephone as she spent 6 months of the year not in the underworld as the Godess of Spring he went with her I believe.
I don't know if any of this is right just what I perceived and collated together from reading so I could be wrong.
@@Linzi86 oh i havent thought abt it that way thats really interesting :D i almost always assume that ppl at the time didnt like to write abt the gods of the underworld bc of the fear of thinking abt their mortality but yeah i think that they are both there in the underworld at the moment bc Ody has to sacrifice a ram(? and a sheep to Hades and Persephone and also Ody thinks that Persephone is punishing him when he cannot hug the soul of his mom or well he thinks that a lot of the things that happen there is of bc Persephone probably showing that she was more fear then Hades himself (im just rambling at this point)
@@fabycutedark they could of been there yes especially with the sacrifices Ody has to do, I don't know about the about the fear of mortality with the Ancient Greeks but I don't think they feared Hades as he was the God of the Underworld not of Death that was Thanatos and Hynos and their sister I forgot the name of, Hades maintains the balance of the underworld and was generally seen as a neutral God and was passive unless you upset the balance of the universe that he prosided over, (I'm rambling now lol)
@@Linzi86 totally, this is all what i think and dont know if its correct but there is no god thats view as bad but they were all fear out of respect equally Hades may not be the god of death but he was still king of the underworld where all mortal end up so some ppl view him as a protector, terrifing ruler or both (english is not my first language but this is fun xd)
Hades was mentioned in Homer's Hymn to Demeter (i think that was Homer) which has the hades and Persephone story!!
I don't think Antinous is YOUNGER than Telemachus, but he is certainly not MUCH older. Theres a bigger chance that he was at most a preteen when the war started, as the young kids were left behind. ESPECIALLY since he call Tele "Boy". why would he call him that if he was younger than him, and especially in that tone of voice. Tele is 20 years old. Antinous is likely mid twenties at least to mid thirties. Antinous is an adult, like the suitors. Telemachus is barely becoming an adult by the standards of the time. (everything I could get real quick says 20 in most of greece for boys) Antinous is also kind of the "lead" suitor. Grown men would not let a technical child be ahead of them. he would have to be one of the oldest, or at least in the middle
Yes. He was certainly under 15 when the war started. Had he been older than 15, he would have joined the army (like Achilles). Antinous is only a few years older than Telemachus.
Antinuous is about 26, 27 maybe
Antinous of Rome was a year younger than Telemachus. Antinous of Ithaca was a few years older from what I know. I lot of people get them mixed up.
For most of Ancient Greece (Sparta excepted) the age that a person joined the military was 18. So the oldest Antinous could be is 27. All of the suitors would probably be 20-27 years old. Bunch of MILF fanboys, LOL!
There was, actually, a kid (I don't remember his name). He was same age as Telemachus, and he was the son of an old friend of Odysseus. When Odysseus came, he gave the young boy a chance to leave, but he didn't.
Maybe that's who they're referring to? But he was certainly not Antinous
We will never stop loving Polites, but Telemachus is starting to replace him as my favorite character, and I hate myself for saying that. Penelope raised him well, and Odysseus would be so proud of him if & when they meet in-person.
Hades is already a thing when the Oddyssey is written since on it's prequel The Illiad, he was mentioned quite a few times albeit with different titles like "He who has many guest" (i think that's one of his titles not sure if it's accurate tho). They usually mention Hades with those kinds of epithet since it is believed that mentioning them by their actual name will make them take notice of you and him being a God of the Underworld, usually means that will be bad news. They do that thing with Persephone, too.
The "You-know-who" of Hellenism
But iirc, in the Underworld, Odyssey!Oddyseus mentioned Dread Persephone when he was being mindscrewed by the underworld.
Hey guys quick question: will you be doing reactions to other animatics? If so will they be on RUclips?
I remember a while ago in thunder bringer animatic, they might do a live stream of other people animatics like we want them to react to Neal's Ruthlessness
@temmiehoi688 well then let's get this noticed cause I have my list
@@navimcfarland9113they will but scheduling has moved around because of releases
@@ceceduncan4615 fair fair
Only sad that you watched Duvetbox's legendary because I like their little wolf the best. Great stuff either way, including Mason's interjections.
I highly recommend mikuchis’ ‘Love in Paradise’. They truly popped off with the environment. Their Time Dive was very creatively shown, and emotions are so perfectly conveyed. 10/10
Really liked these animatic picks! I obviously love Gigi and Anni's as much as anyone else but it's great to see some other folks
I'm sure people said this in the live chat, but as far as I know Antinous IS young but he's older than Telemachus, Odysseus knew (and I think held or cared for? unsure) Antinous when he was very young, so he was around before Odysseus left
Slight correction (not arguing about Antinous’ age), but the one Odysseus held and cared for was Eurymachus, another one of the suitors (not to be mixed up with Eurylochus, of course).
(It’s however probably still likely that Antinious is also slightly older than Telemachus)
I think Casper meant that Ayron Alexander is younger than Mico
I personally think Hades is not represented because he is NOT one of the big 12. The Big 12 are Zeus, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Aphrodite, Athena, Artemis, Apollo, Ares, Hephaestus, Hermes, and either Hestia or Dionysus.
Antinuous is canonically (from the Odyssey) older than Telemachus but younger than Odysseus. The 600 men under Ody's command would have represented all of the grown men in fighting shape on Ithaca at the start of the Trojan war. All of the suitors were left behind because they were children or young teens at the time. So by the Wisdom Saga, Odysseus is probably at least in his mid-40's, Antinuous is early 30's or so, and Telemachus is barely 20. To compare to our current generations, if Ody and his crew were Gen X, the suitors would be millennials and Telemachus is Gen Z.
SPOILERS:
This actually becomes a key plot point at the end of the Odyssey after Ody slaughters all the suitors, because two entire generations of the noble men of Ithaca are dead, leaving only old men and young boys.
sigh was hoping you would have done GIGI's well be fine
It wasn't uploaded when we filmed this - We will do more Wisdom animatics tho, dw :) -C
@@OpenArmsReactionsyeeeeah
I'm actually so happy that they reacted to this one. TheeArteest deserves all the recognition they get and more!
😔
*quietly nudges Rochi’s legendary animatic forward*
Plz?
YAY I made it to another video! Thank you for reacting 🥺 I'm glad we got to talk!
If you end up going back to watch any of my other things, I reccomend Ruthlessness, def my fav animatic hehe
@@theearteest06 Heyyy I'm so happy for you!! Your We'll be Fine is still my favorite animatic of the song
@@yay29823 thank you so much 🥺🥺🥺♥️💕💕 she's a little silly but she's my baby
mortius mentioning the maidens' eye aura from RWBY made my heart so happy, because i thought the exact same thing when i saw archi's little wolf!
5:04 Mortius and Casper, Greek Mythology was (and still is) a Religion, called Hellenism, they believe in Sirens, just as Christians believes in Angels. Thank you for you time.
"Hellenism"? We don't call it that :') We call it "dodekatheism" unless there's a sub-religion I'm unaware of
8:32 That's a misconception. Many people(including myself at first) mistake Antinous of Ithaca and Antinous of Bithynia. The ladder died when he was 19. The suitors(including Antinous) on the other hand were all about 25-35, since they were basically men who were barely too young to be forced to join the Trojan war(had less then 16-18 years old when it started)
10:30 ish Hades is in The Iliad though... I believe he gets a quick description as a god and is mentioned multiple times.
Edit: interestingly if I remember right Homer describes him as hateful towards mortals but in pretty much every other myth after that he's probably in the top 5 gods you'd want to try and negotiate with... cuz compared to his brothers he's pretty fking chill.
Edit 2: 26:52 ... how did they not talk about how our boy Telemachus pulls Athena out of the shadows of her depression and *into the light*?
I love seeing y'all react to these animatics, especially lesser-known channels. This was a blast! ❤
something i want to mention, telemachus is shown to be portrayed as smart like odysseus. he draws his sword on antinous, but moves to his fists because he knows he's more likely to walk away from a fist fight than a sword fight
Oh wow. I think Archie’s version of Little Wolf is my favourite so far.
I love all the different style of art each animator brings ti the different songs. They all do amazing work. Well done to everyone.
I know a lot of people are probably asking for Gigi’s ‘We’ll Be Fine’, but there’s one by a creator named SincerelyMaxx who did a really great one. It’s a very good animatic, with a dash of angst. No hate on anyone else, but theirs is my favorite 🩵
Do you have a link to that? I can’t find it.
ruclips.net/video/HwJpACqOJfc/видео.htmlsi=BNaqBVF2W3lQ8vvZ@@everythingisvision
Also apparently, antinuos is never actually given an age in The Odyssey, and the one you've been hearing about is from a different myth, you're still kind of right because the consensus seems to be that antinuous is somewhere between 25 and 26, so they aren't too far apart in age, but for someone as arrogant as him having five or six years on telemachus would probably represent total superiority
I just wonder if there's a chance for you to react to Mikuchis' Love In Paradise animatic or if you have already recorded that video too.
I’m an unhealthy exited for this.
I just missed the live premiere. Always fun seeing your takes on the animatics. But I greatly recommend DuvetBox's "Little Wolf".
i have an idea. probably a bad idea. please dont crucify my idea. its just an idea.
Epic the musical but with unnecessary censoring.
In the Odyssey, the leader of the Suitors was Eurymachus. Antinous is essentially just a renamed Eurymachus that's why he isn't 19 here but way older.
Telly obv knows about the monsters Odysseus encounters by listening to Epic on youtube.
27:59 hear me out, what if athena giving telemachus the helmet is like her accepting him as her 'warrior' sort of thing, just like a thought.. but its so adorable
5:20 To be fair we all know about things that exist in the world that we never seen in person. In their reality it's just a fact that this things exist.
Please react to Sage the Mage's animatics they get really creative with it
After the coosco comparison. All i think is. Hephaestus whay dit you get kicked off olimpis ?
Hephaestus: i throw of Hera's groov , BEWHEAR THE GROOV!
TheeArteest has my favorite Suffering/Different Beast animatics, and Duvetbox has my favorite Thunder Bringer. Good choices!
If you do more animatic reactions, maybe you could check out Irunaki? Their design for Athena is absolutely stellar.
If you guys ever do alternate animatics i hope you guys check out duvetbox's Thunder Bringer, duvetbox is new to the EPIC scene but as you can see, their animatics are AMAZING
BEGGING, WHEN YOU GO BACK FOR ANIMATICS, THE ARTEEST FOR RUTHLESSNESS!! 🛐🛐
Also, this part (27:48 - 27:52) is really good and hurts me :')
I absolutely adore when we get to see everyone's beautiful art, hard work, and help more people learn that they exist! Let's lift up more rising artistic stars!
There is a 19 year old Antinous, but he was a lover of the Roman Emperor Hadrian in the 2nd century CE. Odyssey/Epic Antinous is of unspecified age, but probably safe to assume at least 10 years older than Telemachus.
Surprisingly Persephone predates Hades as a chthonic god. (Although at that time Poseidon was also a chthonic god as well.)
In Casper’s defense on calling Poseidon hades , some early regional Mycenaean cities like pylos may have worshipped Poseidon as a god of the underworld, some myths suggest an entry to the underworld is at the bottom of the sea, however hades soon became the norm for an underworld deity.
The problem with Greek mythology is it varies from city to city, ESPECIALLY the stories like the Iliad and the odyssey where in cities. In Athens, homosexuality was actually banned for a while . So the relationship would have Achilles and Patroclus would definitely be two roomates in their portrayals of the Iliad. While in Thebes, some period scholars write about same sex unions happening at temples of Dionysus , so the pairing would likely be seen as a tragic romance.
Ancient Greek society was so much more complicated than we think and it’s just so fascinating!
tl;dr Ancient Greece is very complicated and Casper may have been right about Poseidon being “hades” if you ask an early Mycenaean
Cyclopes are quite numerous, and aren't just ployphemus and his kin, or the elder cyclopes that assisted the gods in the giganomachy war and forged zues lighting bolts
ok but is no one gonna talk about how calling Telemachus "little wolf" is a reference to the "pack of wolves" line from Ruthlessness
While I see why they reacted to Archii’s Little Wolf, I wish they’d also react to the one by Duvetbox or Irunaki ! Those two are my personal favourite :)
I love Telemachus leading Athena into the light of the balcony and away from the shadow of the dark room in "We'll Be Fine", it was so sweet!
eyy, history thoughts: so, Cerberus is one hundred percent mentioned in the homeric hymns. However, he also gets mentioned as "the hound of Hades" (or more specifically as one of the versions of the name, which in homeric greek would've often been Aidoneus or Aides. But neither of them were particularly important for the greater story, at most episodic.
Also a side note: Homer didn't write the epics. He's associated with them, but he was a singer/performer, rather than a scribe, and what we call "homeric hymns" are someone's recollections and editorials of what epics Homer and other travelling performers told as the great stories of the time, not only having shared them between each other, but also gaining them from folklore and religious teachings. It's a whole thing that was like, knocked into my head in secondary, so I can't just let you guys go on thinking he authored them.
I can highly recommend Overly Sarcastic Productions’ “Hades and Persephone” video, as it goes into more detail on their origins
I'm very sad that you didn't comment on the Open Arms motif at the end of We'll be Fine. Almost like Telemachus is the new source of optimism and positivity in the story.
Oh I am SO hyped for y'all to see more of TheeArteest's epic animatics. Neither of you are ready for their take on 'Different Beasts'.
Hmmmm, so I guess we won't be getting your reaction to anniflamma's God Games considering how early these animatics are and how it came out in the same day as your announcement which is weird because I don't think there were any reaction worthy animatics for God Games (I guess you guys are gonna make it a patreon exclusive thing) before it I definitely think you guys should wait a little bit next time
I hope they do Anniflamma's God games, it kicks so much ass.
I vote you do a "We'll be fine" animatic's reation. Cause there is actually a lot of great ones!
Please stop spoiling the next two sagas they will be deleted by us all… and you may get banned. This is me giving you all the warning
Polites would have loved Telemachus
Archi’s profile pic is odydio and I love it so much
Dude now u guys just have to see gigis version of we’ll be fine
Athena out here putting the God in God mother
beautiful animatics, the animators are all so talented
Yes that is what I was thinking. Cause in the canon he still has scars but they really just make him look like an experienced fighter (kinda like one of Ody’s crew) not to make him look evil, his words and actions are what make him a villain.
Yaaay Winions!! I love Duvetbox legendary and little wolf animatics!!❤❤
Can we PLEASE PLEASE get an Open Arms Reactions to the musical Come From Away 🙏🙏🙏
Y'all should check out theearteest's take on Suffering and Different Beast. It's very unique.
I really would like for them to read to BrittPowwPixel!!! Their Love in Paradise was really good!
Omg duvetbox! Theyre my favorite epic animator, they have my FAVORITE Suffering and Different Beast animatics. Id love to see you react to their other work!
Cereberus/Kerberos (spotted) is one of Typhoeus and Echidna children. As Echidna is the mother of monsters
I hope when they go back they watch duvetbox’s thunder bringer or little wolf
You guys should watch ride the cyclone
Its on Mortius Monday musical list he said on one of the premiere chats like six and hadestowns cause he said this channel is that mortius shows casper what he knows and vice versa and things that they don't know would do it on their own channels and maybe come together on this onr
It's on Mortius musical Monday list like six and hadestown, he said in one of the premiere chats cause he also said this channel is he shows what he knows to casper like Enchanto/Hamilton and vice versa and if they both don't know it, they do it on their own channels
@@temmiehoi688 ok thank you 🫶
10:19 this isn't true, Hades was already depicted as king of the underworld by the time the Odyssey was composed (750-650 BCE), for perspective, the Theogony was written 730-700 BCE, a whole new god isn't going to show up with parentage and a realm in just 20 to 80 years, he just wasn't directly referred to often because the ancient greeks were afraid of him, it's why most people still call him by the name of his realm today, his real name was rarely written down outside of niche cults out of fear so "Lord of Hades" eventually got shortened to "Lord Hades" and just stuck, I think whoever told you this either heard that Persephone was mentioned in the Odyssey while her husband wasn't, or they heard there are no Mycenaean records of Hades, both of which are true, but came to the wrong conclusion
The google search tor Antinous' age is 19, but it's a different person, some Roman dude. He's probably like... maybe 25-26 maybe? Or he just wasn't someone who was there during the Helen suitor thing
Wish you both luck with whatever god games animatic cause I keep seeing ones with saucy Aphrodite
this gesture caused a blackout for mortius and I don't even know what that means... help?
We’re so back let’s goooo (did I already watch this on patreon? Yes. Am I watching it again? Duh, Morti and Cas content On Top)
I want Mikuchis love in Paradise pls notice me I kept on watching your videos when I'm bored
I highly recommend checking out purplesky's little wolf animatic even as a patron exclusive, it's so good and I haven't seen it talked about at all (and also virusAP's scylla it's pretty good)
Archi including Casper and Mortius as suitors… and they’re next to each other!
Yaaaaaaayyyy! I just watched pretty much all of your guy’s EPIC content. I just listened to it this week and now I’m obsessed.
EPIC is a disease and I don’t want the cure.
no gigi animatics, HERESEY
(yes ik it was recorded before gigi's animatic, it's a joke)
also I love how mortius' power died the moment he started getting less family friendly lol
Hades was definitely a thing by the time of Homer in the 700s BCE, I believe you are referencing historical Mycenean Greece where the tales of Jason, Hercules, and the Trojan War are thought to have happened. The Trojan War does correspond to some kind of real world events that happened ~1200 BCE right before Mycenean Greece collapsed into their Dark Age ~1150 BCE. The odd state of Hades in this Era comes from the surviving writing of Mycenean Greece (which was not the greek alphabet), which has been found to mention gods like Poseidon and Persephone, but not Hades.
The usual assumption is that fear and distrust of the seas led Mycenean Greece to make the Ocean and the Underworld into the single domain of Poseidon; who also may have been seen as head of the gods rather than Zeus during this era. This can still be partially seen in the Odyssey in the fact that a cave in the sea is the gateway to Hades.
But by the time that the Dark Age ended ~750 BCE, the order and position of the gods was roughly what we now know. Do keep in mind the Greek Gods weren't just a story but an active religion which lived and evolved over the millennia with heavy regional variations and no single true canon. Pan and Hermes were once one and the same, Aphrodite was once much more warrior like, Dionysus was reviled and later loved by the greeks. And things continued to evolve until the last greco-roman pagans died out in at the soonest in the mid-9th century. But you could argue the gods continued to evolve for millennia more as even in the 1700s, some greeks prayed to Demeter who had for centuries now been called Saint Demeter.
4:58
Hey. The answer is literarry "His mom". A woman who keeps the kindom safe, Ody`s straith and dogs wining is defenetly raising her son with some knowlege about comone stuff.
Not to mention she most likely aware of Athena, so she have at least a pressure from a godness to make her little pup smart and educated as much as possible.
+++ Athena didn`t say her name, but Telemacus recognised her and asked "Why Athena?" . From whom you may quess he knows about her? Not from his papa :^)🙃
I've always liked in this version of Legendary that Telemachus DOES have some sword training, if only on a basic level. It would make sense as his father is a commander of the army that he'd be taught at least a little, or even just watch the soldiers training and mimic them.
8:37 actually... Antinous could be younger than Odysseus but older than Telemachus, give or take around 26-28 years old.
Antinous could have been an adult by the time Odysseus finished the war and gotten older since.
It's also important to note that some of them are foreigners, with only 12 suitors be Ithacan natives.
I want Casper to react to Mirabel villain song from Lydia the bard
@ Casper Hades generally is not problematic amongst the Pantheon. He does his forced upon him job and that's that.
The thing Casper mentioned about Antinous’ age is interesting. I wouldn’t go quite as far as to say Antinous would be younger than Telemachus but they definitely could be close in age. Antinous would have had to be a child when Odysseus left for the Trojan war so at most he would be 16 years older than Telemachus (about 36) but it is likely he is younger than that. I still think Antinous would have to be a little older than Telemachus given the way he behave towards him and Telemachus’ comment about ‘108 old faces’. This could mean that some of the suitors are older, but given that Antinous is the leader of the suitors he can’t be the youngest of the group. Overall I imagine that Antinous is probably in his mid-20s
8:32
About Antinous, I think people confused the character of the odyssey with a Greek who was the lover of the Roman emperor Hadrian, this Antinous really was young and
He died at the age of 20. Antinous' age is not mentioned in the odyssey, but I believe that the age difference between him and Telemachus is not very large. He's probably 20 and something, while Telemachus is 19/20 years old
10:20
Okay, about Hades, his figure and the concept of the underworld were important elements in Greek religion and mythology.
He was already the god of the underworld and was part of oral traditions and previous religious cults, before Homer. Although, the most famous mentions of him are in Homer's poems.
Hades is mentioned in the odyssey despite not appearing directly, the absence of his presence may be more a matter of narrative choice on Homer's part. Since, the odyssey is more focused on Odysseus' interaction with the gods and mortals.
In legendary I just assumed Telemachus is just well read like Ody. They are nobles
I mean Hades was considered more passive than the other gods. He was probably the least likely to mess with humans. There is a really funny short that I can’t remember who did it, but it shows Odysseus pacing and singing “Monster”. Hades comes out and looks at Odysseus but then just goes back to work. 🤣 I like that as canon.
There's an artist named MaepleTea who's done an animatic for Love in Paradise. It's not a full video but it's very good
Actually, in the stage directions for the Circe Saga, we know that she summons a chimera, which Odysseus summons a cyclops to counter. The hydra can reference either Scylla or Charybdis, harpies & mermaids are frequently given the hypnotic melodies of sirens in fantasy, Cerberus is the guardian of *_the Underworld,_* and the idea of one of the suitors being Cretan is far from impossible. *_ALL_* of the monsters reference events in The Odyssey, and I think that's kinda neat