It’s the fact that both fit her so well Also, she is technically his half great-great aunt because Hermes is Odysseus’ great grandfather and Hermes and Athena are half siblings so she’s literally his Divine Cool Aunt
Imagine calling Penelope a tramp for [checks notes] ...waiting two decades for her husband to come home and NOT letting anyone else near her bed in all that time
I always took it as him implying that she was sleeping with a lot of suitors during the years but she just wasn't marrying them because she didn't want to do it. Like he was disgustingly saying that she was just taking advantage of them because she was queen and saying “you could earn favor and maybe I'll marry you if you do this”. He’s saying she should stop enjoying her men and just choose one to marry. It’s obviously not something she does but Antinous wants to insult her. That's how I took it at least.
@@JediBlueDog Idk, I figured it was just along the same lines of that dumb thing guys on tinder do where they call girls that reject them "sluts". They obviously don't actually care what the word means, like you said, they're just looking to be insulting, but it's still stupid and ironic.
Small correction: Odysseus left when Telemachus was an infant. In “Just a Man”, Ody told Astyanax, “You’re as old as [my son] was when I left for war.”
Yes, Odysseus was there in Ithaca for the birth of his son, he was still an infant when he left though which is why Ody and Telemachus don't know each other
Came here to say this exact thing. Theoretically he should be 20-21 years old at this point. Its not like they had ultrasounds back then so how would he know it was a son if he was at war when Telemachus was born?
I mean...his son was like what, a handful of months old then? Sure he *met* his son, but he never met him as an actual thinking, self-aware sapient person. He never got to see his son grow up, so yeah, technically Mortius is right. He never did get to meet his son.
@@WittySomething except that wasn't the reason this was brought up. The reason this was brought up was that mortius brought up actual age for telemachus and not sentience
Someone pointed out on a tiktok before a really good point. In Legendary when telemacus sings: “if I fight this monster is It you I’ll find” can mean telemacus thinks if he fights he’ll die and if he dies he’ll see Odysseus in the underworld cuz his dad very well could be dead for all he knows.
Ohh I like that interpretation so much!! When I first heard it, I thought it was Telemachus thinking if he'll be just as strong as Odysseus is when fighting monsters SPOILER:: (I think Telemachus' line after finally reuniting with Odysseus is a good proof of this too "I could never outgrow you" @ Odysseus)
I always assumed that Telemachus thought that Odysseus was out heroically fighting monsters so if he went out and did the same he might meet him, but the dramatic irony lies in the fact that Odysseus is becoming a monster. So we as the audience know that yes, if Telemachus goes out looking for monsters, he may very well find his dad.
I've wondered if the wolf imagery is due to the maternal grandfather of Odysseus is named Autolycus which translates to "the wolf itself." He taught Hercules wrestling but also got him into trouble with his kleptomania. I've seen essays call Autolycus the "Prince of Thieves" of the Greek world.
“Where’s my sword? I’ll fight you, Antinuous!” MOOD! The second he had the AUDACITY to call Penelope a “tramp”, he pretty much painted a big red target on his back in the fandom’s eyes. 😡
@@aadityayanamandra8846 ANT-in-us sound so weird. like I never knew how to pronounce it so my brain went for it being like "continuous" for some reason
@@qwerty_qwerty Jorge makes the same mistake lol, it's common. Technically, if you were trying to be 100% accurate and not englicizing the name, it'd be "ant-in-oh-OOS," but that sounds ridiculous in english
Ok I can finally tell you this without it being a spoiler! So when Athena says "if you're looking for a mentor I'll make sure your time's well spent" in WOTM it's a bit of a reference to the source material. The word "mentor" in English is directly derived from the Odyssey, as Mentes (sometimes just translated as Mentor) was the name Athena first went by when disguised as a mortal when she first met Telemachus :) only had to wait 7 sagas to tell you 😂
Fun fact, the "Tell me, Athena, why you came to my aid" is in the same melody as a _Polites_ line from a cut song, Ismarus "What keeps you up so late at night, my friend?"
17:34 Jorge made a post talking about the “whatcha gonna do about it champ?” and how incredibly well Ayron delivers that line. Despite his warning no one was prepared for it 😅😅
Someone else pointed this out but its interesting how Antinous is like a evil Eurylochus. Eurylochus had the crew as his chorus and now Antinous has the suitors.
Honestly, him as an evil Eurylochus (instead of uplifting his crew, he uses them to put others down) is a pretty fun analogy, especially given his use of the electric guitar. Plus, that means Eurymachus (the more charming suitor who doesn't waste his time bullying Telemachus) can be seen as a darker Odysseus, using his brain and charisma solely to further his own ends. It also places Amphinomus, the suitor who refuses to join the others and attempts to protect Penelope and Telemachus, as a mirror to Polites.
Iirc, Jorge said that Antinuos instruments (yes plural) are opposite of Odysseus like the electric guitar (I think) and the other suitors become his background ensemble.
@@adamharith782has he specifically named the instruments? I was thinking drums and strings but I also hear a low reed instrument (clarinet/bass clarinet/sax/bari sax or a mix maybe)
Some may have already pointed this out, but if you listen carefully in Little Wolf, you’ll notice that Antony’s places more emphasis on the ‘Little’ whenever he speaks in order to insult Telemachus, whereas Athena focuses far more on emphasising the ‘Wolf’ part, using it as a way for extra encouragement.
The timeline is: 10 years in Troy 3 years at sea 7 years at Calypso's island So yeah, 20 years Ody has been away from his kingdom, you can imagine why they're getting impatient when every other Greek hero has already returned to either rule or die in their land. Though it hasn't been 10 years since the events of Thunder Bringer, only 7 as mentioned at the start.
@@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595 Even in Epic: in the Wisdom saga it is confirmed that 20 years have passed, the Trojan War lasted 10 and the imprisonment on the island of Calypso 7, so there are 3 years missing, one of which on the island of Circe
@@Nisselak we have to presume in Epic they simply spent an extra year at sea. There is no way the events of Puppeteer until The Underworld took a whole year, unless Circe's island is simply ridiculous in size and Hermes really fucked around with bringing Ody to her palace.
If you listen when this part turns blue 7:49 it plays Athena’s theme in the background to hint that she’s listening or heard his calls! Also Telemachus is legit Disney princess stuck in their room in a castle wanting to explore the outside world! 😂
Nothing against you, but I hate your comment. Every time I open the comments on my phone your comment gets "recommended" making me hit your timestamp and resetting me back.
And one of the parents is missing 😂. Lol he got that from Ody, I can just imagine the two of them exploring the world after being freed. Penelope will have her hands full.
@@lowstamina_arts No need to be sorry. It is why I explained at the start my gripe has 0% to do with you. RUclips has gotten worse the more they try to fill the app space.
Jorge is why we knew about the 'what you gonna do about it champ' he made a video talking about he's been constantly saying it to himself because of how satisfying it sounded
Fun fact, Jorge said that Antinous' music is a combo of electric guitar and trumpet, to show that he is trying to replace Ody and to remind us of Poseidon, another "villain"
Telemachus is 20, he was born before the war but was just a baby, so Ody never 'knew' him since he wasn't old enough to have a personality. Saving Telemachus is actually why Odysseus failed to dodge the draft, he tried to claim insanity by ploughing his field and planting salt, but Telemachus was placed in the path with the argument that if he was truly mad, an infant on the path wouldn't give him pause.
I mean… majority of us probably will not be trained effective fighters, but… damn do we got numbers. 108 vs…. 100,000? Heh… I’ll take those odds. (Rummages around for a metal bowl to use as a helmet and a broom to sharpen into a spear…)
"If she won't choose a man to adorn her, we'll bring blood and tears" is both a statement that he will suffer to appease the anger and a foreshadowing that they are getting closer to SAing his mom.
@@DrakeDragontonit’s cause in the show How I Met Your Mother (where Barney Stinson is from) he has a catch phrase featuring the word Legendary. I’m gonna butcher it but something along the lines of: “This is gonna be Legen…wait for it…dary!”
Fun fact translated Cerberus means in some ways spotted so Hades this giant dork called His 3 headed hellhound Spot and im laughing everytime thinking about it😂
So the suitors have been there basically since most warriors of Troy came home and Ody and crew never did, so it has been assumed he is dead. Since he was a king, a replacement is needed to marry his widow and become the new king. Since she's the Queen, she has a bit of agency in choice. If you've ever heard of a "Penelope's shroud", that is how she is stalling as is mentioned. She told the suitors who has overrun the palace waiting for a choice to be made that she would choose one of them once she completes weaving a burial shawl for her father in law. The cheeky part is that she would weave during the day and sneak back at night and undo her work for the day to prolong that decision date.
Ooooohhhhhh....So that's why in the lyrics of the song "challenge" (unreleasong by the way) is she sàid"they don't know, that every night, i unthread all the work i've done" she is so genius on that part. I didn't know this... The thing that she's on threading is a shawl .... I thought something else😅.but that is so cool
The suitors didn't really start going to Ithaca and causing trouble until maybe year 16 or 17 I think it was in the original. No one would mess with Penelope while they knew Odysseus was still alive so they waited until they were completely sure he was dead and there was no sign of him anywhere. No one was really thinking about Ithaca right after the war ended as they buried their dead and recuperated from the war so it was a long time before they were like "omg where's Odysseus? We should go take his throne." It's also why they are so hostile towards Telemachus. By ancient Greece standards he was already a "man" when they got there, about 17 or 18. They see him as a Mama's Boy, just getting in the way of everything when he should already be gone and doing toehr things. He's also a threat because theoretically Penelope could decide to step down and give the throne to him instead of choosing a suitor like they want her too, though she'd never do that because they would probably kill him. The suitors would have never been capable of waiting the 20 years the epic fandom likes to say they waited. Even 3-4 years was a lot of them tbh.
In legendary when he says “somebody tell come and give me a sign” the screen turns blue and you can hear the Athena motif in the backround nice little detail
Athena realizing her mistakes and crying about it on the balcony with Telemachus got my emotions flying in so many different directions. And having the WOTM theme play, then switch to Legendary? This saga is absolutely incredible, and broke me at the same time.
Spoiler question Am I the only one who feels like it's heavily implied Ody was forced to sleep with Calipso ? When she says "Come/climb to bed", is always near him and him being on the cliff at the end in so much pain. Like knowing the original I feel like it did happen here in the Musical-
Your reaction to Antinous' existence is so relatable Lol. Though of course, he has one of the greatest vocals and song(s) of this musical. His voice is the perfect Disney villain voice. Because there's this rule: Villains always have the best songs.
I've gotten to the point where when I was listening to the wisdom saga for the first time my first thought upon hearing some of the lyrics was "I can't wait to see Mortius react to this."
Telemochus was born while Ody was still there, because in "Im just a Man" Ody says the baby is the same age a Telemochus was when Ody left. As a baby though, Telemochus doesn't remember "meeting" his dad
To add on to the spoiler at 9:32 Penelope hosts a challenge for the suitors to string up Odysseus’s recurve bow that he didn’t bring to war since it was a present and shoot it through twelve axe heads. Said bow had a ridiculous draw strength so none of them didn’t even stringed it. Then Odysseus, disguised as a beggar, takes on the challenge and easily strings and shoots through the twelve axes while revealing himself in the process. He and Telemachus engaged in much needed father-son bonding by killing most of the suitors. Personally, I’m interested in seeing how EPIC would do this part
For the "What you gonna do about it champ?", Jorge made a video about how there are a lot of lines in the Wisdom saga that are delivered "so masterfully" it gets stuck in his head, then goes on to say how he's specifically thinking of that line.
SO excited for this but also so excited to see you lose your s*** over Love in Paradise and possibly God Games I know I did 😂 Also We’ll Be Fine is so wholesome and is up there with Open Arms with my favorites
The fact that the line is "Fight LITTLE WOLF" When earlier posiedon said "Guess the pack of wolves is swimming with the shark now." The callback from that was crazy
I think he kind of did but they basically ignored it, and let's not forget the suitors aren't Noble they just each want to be the king (honestly I'm surprised the suitors were ever really United, considering they each want to be Penelope's husband, and there's 108 of them, seriously how did they ever manage to present a united front)
@@dragansnyder2786 There are a lot of rules for hospitality baked into greek stories. i.e.) Since you can't even know if a god is present in disguise you can't ever turn away a guest. These rules trapped Penelope into accepting the suitors into her home and playing the host. These same rules forbade the suitors from killing each other in their hosts home. It was less a united front and more of a, "follow the laws."
@@yuukinoyuki9064I'm also pretty sure that there's something in the Greek rules of hospitality about not waddington murder the man who would hypothetically play the head of the household (thank you for providing that little bit of context, it just kind of surprises me because they probably are held together in that way by the hospitality laws, but then these men constantly bluster about how if Odysseus dares to come back into his own house they're going to kill him because there's more of them, and as far as I can tell Odysseus doesn't exactly just start murdering people when he gets home, I think it's more like they realized who he was and tried to kill him and then he started dropping them, right?
@@dragansnyder2786 So, there's actually no blustering about killing Ody. They all 100% believe Odysseus is dead, it's been 10 years since everyone else returned from the war and the last anyone heard Odysseus' ships were seen off the shores of Ithaca and were then swallowed up by a giant storm. His own mother was so convinced of his death that she killed herself (hence why we see her in the underworld.) Recall the prophet's line; "I see your palace, covered in red/faces of men who had long believed you're dead." A lot of their anger is that Penelope keeps using tricks to prolong making a choice, which - because they're convinced Odysseus is dead - reads like a slap in the face. There is blustering about killing Telemachus, but that's more because as he ages he becomes a threat to their chance at the throne. But even then, they wouldn't outright kill him and envoke the wrath of the gods, (hence letting him live following 'Little Wolf') they'd make it look like an accident, or force him to break the rules first. As for Odysseus' return I don't mind sharing but SPOILERS for anyone reading who wants to go in blind. In the Odyssey, Odysseus sneaks into his Kingdom dressed as an old man. His wife has put together one last stall, saying she'll marry the man who can string her husband's old hinting bow and soot through several tiny rings. Everyone fails and says it's impossible, but then an old man steps up, easily strings the bow, and makes the shot. He then drops his hood and reveals to everyone that it's Odysseus returned. Man then goes on an absolute murder spree just slaughtering every suitor in his home. So any token fight by the suitors at that point are done in response to the literal arrows of death being rained down on them, lol.
Wisdom Saga actually living to its name with Athena showing some character growth and gaining of wisdom. Also... in the last saga it has been 12-ish years, and this one started with a splash screen saying "7 years later", Mortius... and Telemachus was a baby when Odysseus left, so he's somewhere in the 20-22 range. Remember "You're as old as he was when I left for war" in Just a Man
16:15 “where’s my sword!” YES this is the first video I’ve watched yours and I loved your vibe since the beginning BUT YES! THIS! I LOVE IT! FUCK HIM UP!
Broskis I've been listening to this entire saga on repeat and I can't believe it took me watching this video to realize Athena was present the entire time during legendary! She appears when telempchus says "someone give me a sign" brilliant
28:30 actually he did 'meet' him. Telemachus was actually historically the reason why Odysseus went to war. Ody was pretending to be mad because he didn't want to go. Another guy who's name im forgetting rn(something starting with a P that isn't Polites) threatened to kill Telemachus to prove Odysseus hasn't lost his mind, which worked
Telemachus was actually born before Odysseus went to war. Funnily enough, they never mentioned how Agammemnon tried to stab him as a baby to get Odysseus into the boats for war
1:25 well I don’t know, Jorge released a short celebrating Wisdom saga getting 10million streams in 4 days, so I think he’ll be fine with me watching this stream reaction
In the song legendary while the lyric "come and give me a sign" 7:46 plays you can hear the theme from Warrior of the mind in the Background and i think thats really cool
The reason why it’s 20 years is because Telemachus and Penelope have not seen him since he sailed to go and do the Trojan war. The Trojan war itself took 10 years and then it took another 10 years for Odysseus to sail from Troy back to Ithaca. so when he tells Circe that it’s been 12 long years he’s counting the Trojan war.
WHY DID YOU HAVE TO MAKE US WAIT?! WHHYYYYYYYY????!!!!!! 😫 But regardless I can’t wait to see your reaction!! I guarantee you’ll absolutely love them!! I’m so excited for this hehe!! 🤩
I know you split these up for more videos but I would 100% watch an hour or 2 compilation of you reacting to the whole saga, the wait is just torture 😭
Something I love about Little Wolf is that in Ruthless, Poseidon calls Odysseus and his men a “pack of wolves” so if Ody is a wolf, then that makes Telemachus a little wolf.
14:33 *SPOILERS FOR THE ODYSSEY!* if you don’t want to spoil how Epic will end, then please just ignore this comment! So when the suitors are saying that they still don’t have a king after 20 years, it’s because traditionally if the king went off to war, there would be men who would come to potentially take the place as king if he died while in battle. So the suitors only want to become king by marrying Penelope, who is still queen despite everyone believing that Odysseus is dead. Another fact that makes the suitors even more dangerous towards Telemachus is that it was very common for the children of the previous king that died to be murdered in order to prevent any reasoning for the new king’s child to end up as heir to the throne. So the suitors are already planning Telemachus’ death so that he can’t ascend to the throne and kill them/their heirs for the throne for their injustices. This is another reason why Odysseus is so furious with the suitors when he returns that he and Telemachus end up murdering all of them in cold blood, which was foreshadowed in No Longer You, after he completes Penelope’s challenge and winning back his throne. I know Mortius has said before that he doesn’t know much about the Odyssey because he’s only read what Percy Jackson has mentioned about it, but I think his mind is gonna be blown when he realizes all of the references in No Longer You and many of the other songs in Epic the Musical.
In Legendary the lines "Bring the world some light" and "Where is the man who'll have you to wife" is a reference to two songs that got cut called Into The Light and Man of The House Also, in Mutiny Eurolychus said "If you want the power you gotta carry all the blame" which is a reference too the song City of Ismaris
little tidbit that was missed that I saw: at 7:48 there's a little jingle that's very similar to the main Instrumental of Warrior of the mind so That's a little foreshadowing of Athena "leading" Telemachus to his father or Vice Versa add your own tidbits that you noticed that no one did
A little late because I, unfortunately, haven't had a chance to watch your reaction before now, but Telemachus is closer to 21. In Just a Man Odysseus says " I think back to the son of mine, he was old as you are when I left for war" to the baby. Also, if he had been born after Odysseus left, I would think Ody probably wouldn't have know he existed considering the era and what all has been happening during Ody's time away.
I don't think Athena came to Telemachus solely because of what you said. I think she doesn't need a new warrior, she just misses her old one and Telemachus reminded her of him...
Honestly, Telemachus has been the most relatable character in Epic for me so far because I too would attempt to fight a hundred men for one of them calling my mom a tramp and subsequently get my ass beat.
Great to see Athena graduating from Divine Sugar Momma to Divine Cool Aunt
It’s the fact that both fit her so well
Also, she is technically his half great-great aunt because Hermes is Odysseus’ great grandfather and Hermes and Athena are half siblings so she’s literally his Divine Cool Aunt
From Sugar Momma to Sweet Protective Aunt.❤
Or Divine Aunt Godmother
OMG that is the perfect description! XD
divine sugar granny?
Odysseus is like the good father that actually wants to come back with the milk but gets lost in the supermarket
and half the supermarket is trying to kill him
@@kristenthacker5762Especially the managers for some reason
@@kristenthacker5762 He's lactose intolerant
@@AddyzilynRules and DANGEROUS ~!😂😂
"I wandered among the shelves for 20 years"
Imagine calling Penelope a tramp for [checks notes] ...waiting two decades for her husband to come home and NOT letting anyone else near her bed in all that time
I always took it as him implying that she was sleeping with a lot of suitors during the years but she just wasn't marrying them because she didn't want to do it. Like he was disgustingly saying that she was just taking advantage of them because she was queen and saying “you could earn favor and maybe I'll marry you if you do this”. He’s saying she should stop enjoying her men and just choose one to marry. It’s obviously not something she does but Antinous wants to insult her. That's how I took it at least.
@@JediBlueDog Idk, I figured it was just along the same lines of that dumb thing guys on tinder do where they call girls that reject them "sluts". They obviously don't actually care what the word means, like you said, they're just looking to be insulting, but it's still stupid and ironic.
Small correction: Odysseus left when Telemachus was an infant. In “Just a Man”, Ody told Astyanax, “You’re as old as [my son] was when I left for war.”
Yes, Odysseus was there in Ithaca for the birth of his son, he was still an infant when he left though which is why Ody and Telemachus don't know each other
The name Telemachus means distant war
Telemachus was 10 in just a man the war lasted 10 years and we only saw the end
he's like 19-20 depending on his birthday
Came here to say this exact thing. Theoretically he should be 20-21 years old at this point. Its not like they had ultrasounds back then so how would he know it was a son if he was at war when Telemachus was born?
Mortius - "he never met his son"
Just a man - "your as old as he was when i left for war"
Listen 😭🤣
@@officialmortius we all have our moments of forgetfulness
I mean...his son was like what, a handful of months old then? Sure he *met* his son, but he never met him as an actual thinking, self-aware sapient person. He never got to see his son grow up, so yeah, technically Mortius is right. He never did get to meet his son.
@@WittySomething except that wasn't the reason this was brought up. The reason this was brought up was that mortius brought up actual age for telemachus and not sentience
@@officialmortius it's your wet Hades moment 😂
Someone pointed out on a tiktok before a really good point. In Legendary when telemacus sings: “if I fight this monster is It you I’ll find” can mean telemacus thinks if he fights he’ll die and if he dies he’ll see Odysseus in the underworld cuz his dad very well could be dead for all he knows.
Now did you need to break my heart like that? I am still recovering from this saga. Have mercy 🙏
Ohh I like that interpretation so much!! When I first heard it, I thought it was Telemachus thinking if he'll be just as strong as Odysseus is when fighting monsters
SPOILER::
(I think Telemachus' line after finally reuniting with Odysseus is a good proof of this too "I could never outgrow you" @ Odysseus)
I always assumed that Telemachus thought that Odysseus was out heroically fighting monsters so if he went out and did the same he might meet him, but the dramatic irony lies in the fact that Odysseus is becoming a monster. So we as the audience know that yes, if Telemachus goes out looking for monsters, he may very well find his dad.
I love how he doesn't connect the Little Wolf is the son of the man who's WOLFPACK is swimming with the sharks now
I've wondered if the wolf imagery is due to the maternal grandfather of Odysseus is named Autolycus which translates to "the wolf itself."
He taught Hercules wrestling but also got him into trouble with his kleptomania. I've seen essays call Autolycus the "Prince of Thieves" of the Greek world.
I sure as hell didn't 😅
I didn't
@@rhov-anionwell, he's Hermes' son sooo, it makes sense for him to be a thief since Hermes is the God of Thieves
"108 old faces... and... like one guy in a vest who keeps trying to fight them for me"
Wait, who?
@@averageuser9366 They're talking about Mortius and how he wants to fight the suitors for insulting Penelope and threatening Telemachus.
Odysseus shows up to the palace in disguise and it’s a vest and glasses 😂
108 old guys and that one bard who keeps casting vicious mockery on them
“Where’s my sword? I’ll fight you, Antinuous!”
MOOD! The second he had the AUDACITY to call Penelope a “tramp”, he pretty much painted a big red target on his back in the fandom’s eyes. 😡
Just a quick correction, you're spelling his name like "continuous." You're adding a U, it's just "Antinous," pronounced "ANT-in-us."
I have yet to see a reaction where someone didn't want to fight him. He united an already united fandom to the max with that one.
We need to assemble the troops!
@@aadityayanamandra8846 ANT-in-us sound so weird. like I never knew how to pronounce it so my brain went for it being like "continuous" for some reason
@@qwerty_qwerty Jorge makes the same mistake lol, it's common. Technically, if you were trying to be 100% accurate and not englicizing the name, it'd be "ant-in-oh-OOS," but that sounds ridiculous in english
"PROTECT THIS CHILD" yes that checks out protect our sunshine prince
Our sweet summer child.
Our sunshine man. May Polites live on in Telly
@@VegaTheLyra
Telemachus: losing the fight
Athena "don't.touch.my.child"😞
Antinous: Doesn't
Athena:"DONT TOUCH THE CHILD!"
*Epic fight scene*
Penelope: "HE'S TOUCHING MY CHILD!" 😫👉
Ody:"YOU'RE TOUCHING MY CHILD?!"
Antinous: "NO!"😨
*Epic fight scene*
Real ones will know this one😂😂😂
No oneshall harm our Disney princess XD
@@alfana15 😂😂😂
Ok I can finally tell you this without it being a spoiler! So when Athena says "if you're looking for a mentor I'll make sure your time's well spent" in WOTM it's a bit of a reference to the source material. The word "mentor" in English is directly derived from the Odyssey, as Mentes (sometimes just translated as Mentor) was the name Athena first went by when disguised as a mortal when she first met Telemachus :) only had to wait 7 sagas to tell you 😂
Omg the restraint. Well done.
ohh, wow I never knew that, cool fact and respect the restraint.
Oooh you're right! Never would have made that connection!
😮😮😮 Dude, AWESOME
Fun fact, the "Tell me, Athena, why you came to my aid" is in the same melody as a _Polites_ line from a cut song, Ismarus
"What keeps you up so late at night, my friend?"
I KNEW I KNEW I KNEW THAT I REMEMBER THAT MELODY FROM SOMEWHERE
I KEPT SINGING THAT PART JUST TO REMEMBER WHERE I HEARD IT FROM DUDEEEE THANK YOU SO MUCH
I KNEW IT I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED FAMILIAR
@@Nickys_Corner IKR???
STOP IT STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!!!
17:34 Jorge made a post talking about the “whatcha gonna do about it champ?” and how incredibly well Ayron delivers that line. Despite his warning no one was prepared for it 😅😅
I know by the end I’m going to be hearing “JORGE! WHEN I CATCH YOU JORGE!” From Mortious 😂
Ohhh im so excited
and we know exactly at what moment we'll hear that scream....
😂
We might get a couple of them honestly.
@@Nisselak haha * cough cough * love in paradise * cough cough *
Hehehehehee
Someone else pointed this out but its interesting how Antinous is like a evil Eurylochus.
Eurylochus had the crew as his chorus and now Antinous has the suitors.
I like to imagine that when Epic has a stage adaptation Eurylochus and Antonius will be played by the same person (Polites and Telemachus too 🙃)
@@IlieTornes that would be fun. Kinda like how in Peter pan plays, captain Hook and Wendy's dad are played by the same actor.
Honestly, him as an evil Eurylochus (instead of uplifting his crew, he uses them to put others down) is a pretty fun analogy, especially given his use of the electric guitar.
Plus, that means Eurymachus (the more charming suitor who doesn't waste his time bullying Telemachus) can be seen as a darker Odysseus, using his brain and charisma solely to further his own ends.
It also places Amphinomus, the suitor who refuses to join the others and attempts to protect Penelope and Telemachus, as a mirror to Polites.
Iirc, Jorge said that Antinuos instruments (yes plural) are opposite of Odysseus like the electric guitar (I think) and the other suitors become his background ensemble.
@@adamharith782has he specifically named the instruments? I was thinking drums and strings but I also hear a low reed instrument (clarinet/bass clarinet/sax/bari sax or a mix maybe)
The editor's "You have a sword?? Who gave you a weapon?" Had me WHEEZING! I am literally crying with laughter! Oh Gods that got me!
Mason's the best ❤
Mortius so excited he started speaking Courage the Cowardly Dog lol
He's wearing pink, it fits!
@@froilandragon5693 Oh, man, now I gotta sketch Mortius as Courage lol
Edit: It's sketched and on Cas's discord now lol
@@dylanfoolersame i gotta make fanart now💀
"I'll fight them-"
I can just imagine mortius in a court with the suitors. ALSO THE ' YOuR sTOOpid. ' MADE ME WHEEZZEEEEEE
Respectfully, he’d be beaten to a pulp worse than Telemachus 😭
Some may have already pointed this out, but if you listen carefully in Little Wolf, you’ll notice that Antony’s places more emphasis on the ‘Little’ whenever he speaks in order to insult Telemachus, whereas Athena focuses far more on emphasising the ‘Wolf’ part, using it as a way for extra encouragement.
Honestly, even a little wolf will grow if left alive. That was their first mistake. Little wolf is still a predator no matter how small he may appear.
Oh my goodness I never noticed that! That’s so cool!!
The timeline is:
10 years in Troy
3 years at sea
7 years at Calypso's island
So yeah, 20 years Ody has been away from his kingdom, you can imagine why they're getting impatient when every other Greek hero has already returned to either rule or die in their land. Though it hasn't been 10 years since the events of Thunder Bringer, only 7 as mentioned at the start.
The crew also spends a whole year on Circe's island, so the years spent at sea would be only two
@@Nisselak Well, not in Epic, they arrive at Circe's island and the events of the Circe Saga take place in no more than a few days.
I've been trying to tell people that "12 long years" is correct, but nooooooo they gotta harass him and gaslight him into thinking he made a mistake.
@@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595 Even in Epic: in the Wisdom saga it is confirmed that 20 years have passed, the Trojan War lasted 10 and the imprisonment on the island of Calypso 7, so there are 3 years missing, one of which on the island of Circe
@@Nisselak we have to presume in Epic they simply spent an extra year at sea. There is no way the events of Puppeteer until The Underworld took a whole year, unless Circe's island is simply ridiculous in size and Hermes really fucked around with bringing Ody to her palace.
If you listen when this part turns blue 7:49 it plays Athena’s theme in the background to hint that she’s listening or heard his calls! Also Telemachus is legit Disney princess stuck in their room in a castle wanting to explore the outside world! 😂
Nothing against you, but I hate your comment. Every time I open the comments on my phone your comment gets "recommended" making me hit your timestamp and resetting me back.
And one of the parents is missing 😂. Lol he got that from Ody, I can just imagine the two of them exploring the world after being freed. Penelope will have her hands full.
@@vic-c2x lmao 🤣
@@Razdasoldier I hate when RUclips does stuff like that I’m sorry about that
@@lowstamina_arts No need to be sorry. It is why I explained at the start my gripe has 0% to do with you. RUclips has gotten worse the more they try to fill the app space.
Jorge is why we knew about the 'what you gonna do about it champ' he made a video talking about he's been constantly saying it to himself because of how satisfying it sounded
I love the immediate "where is my sword?" to protect our boy telemachus. And then the shoe when Antinous starts to be more threatening, is so real
Just wait till he sees "Hold them down" song.
He is gonna lose his mind.
I was like "Oooh he grabbed the chonkla!"
Fun fact, Jorge said that Antinous' music is a combo of electric guitar and trumpet, to show that he is trying to replace Ody and to remind us of Poseidon, another "villain"
Telemachus is 20, he was born before the war but was just a baby, so Ody never 'knew' him since he wasn't old enough to have a personality. Saving Telemachus is actually why Odysseus failed to dodge the draft, he tried to claim insanity by ploughing his field and planting salt, but Telemachus was placed in the path with the argument that if he was truly mad, an infant on the path wouldn't give him pause.
The convos between Mortius and his editor are gold lol
Mason: "Let me see what you have"
Mortius @ Antinous: "A sword!"
Mason: "NO"
I love how the entire EPIC fandom was ready to go to war when he called Penelope a tramp. 😂😂😂
I mean… majority of us probably will not be trained effective fighters, but… damn do we got numbers. 108 vs…. 100,000? Heh… I’ll take those odds. (Rummages around for a metal bowl to use as a helmet and a broom to sharpen into a spear…)
@@J.D.onthegodo you happen to have a spare metal bowl..?
I'll join you, now one second while I go raid the kitchen for weapons
@@J.D.onthego the intent but not the means to kill. I forget who I heard say that.
@J.D.onthego bro, you are really funny in the best way.
"How did you all know"
Time may be fast but this fandom is somehow faster.
But the fastest among as are the animators. I swear they don't sleep.
"If she won't choose a man to adorn her, we'll bring blood and tears" is both a statement that he will suffer to appease the anger and a foreshadowing that they are getting closer to SAing his mom.
Nobody noticed Athena's melody after Telemachus' "someone give me a sign"🥺
Casper calls it out in his reaction lol
@@aadityayanamandra8846 I was so happy that Casper did
barney stinson cameo in epic was the best fr
Maybe I’ll understand with the premier
Is he referring to Antonius maybe? 🤔
@@DrakeDragonton hiiiii we were talking on gwendy's stream
@@DrakeDragontonit’s cause in the show How I Met Your Mother (where Barney Stinson is from) he has a catch phrase featuring the word Legendary. I’m gonna butcher it but something along the lines of: “This is gonna be Legen…wait for it…dary!”
@@erosennin211Omg and I love that show 🤦🏼♀️ I’m stupid
Fun fact translated Cerberus means in some ways spotted so Hades this giant dork called His 3 headed hellhound Spot and im laughing everytime thinking about it😂
So the suitors have been there basically since most warriors of Troy came home and Ody and crew never did, so it has been assumed he is dead. Since he was a king, a replacement is needed to marry his widow and become the new king. Since she's the Queen, she has a bit of agency in choice. If you've ever heard of a "Penelope's shroud", that is how she is stalling as is mentioned. She told the suitors who has overrun the palace waiting for a choice to be made that she would choose one of them once she completes weaving a burial shawl for her father in law. The cheeky part is that she would weave during the day and sneak back at night and undo her work for the day to prolong that decision date.
Ooooohhhhhh....So that's why in the lyrics of the song "challenge" (unreleasong by the way) is she sàid"they don't know, that every night, i unthread all the work i've done" she is so genius on that part. I didn't know this... The thing that she's on threading is a shawl .... I thought something else😅.but that is so cool
I mean, with that kind of deception, her and Ody are perfect for each other. 🤣 In all seriousness, Penelope is a BOSS
The suitors didn't really start going to Ithaca and causing trouble until maybe year 16 or 17 I think it was in the original. No one would mess with Penelope while they knew Odysseus was still alive so they waited until they were completely sure he was dead and there was no sign of him anywhere. No one was really thinking about Ithaca right after the war ended as they buried their dead and recuperated from the war so it was a long time before they were like "omg where's Odysseus? We should go take his throne."
It's also why they are so hostile towards Telemachus. By ancient Greece standards he was already a "man" when they got there, about 17 or 18. They see him as a Mama's Boy, just getting in the way of everything when he should already be gone and doing toehr things. He's also a threat because theoretically Penelope could decide to step down and give the throne to him instead of choosing a suitor like they want her too, though she'd never do that because they would probably kill him.
The suitors would have never been capable of waiting the 20 years the epic fandom likes to say they waited. Even 3-4 years was a lot of them tbh.
Jorge made a short about the line "whatcha gonna do about it champ?" thats how everyone knew before the song released
Protect Telemachus, Athena, Penelope and Odysseus at ALL COSTS INDEED
are we sure athena needs protection (the rest make sense fr)
And -Polites- and -Eurylochus- and -Elpenor- and -Argos oh wait he’s still alive….
(😭😭😭😭)
@@arynoob1392Oh no, we're protecting everyone else from her.
@@arynoob1392, at least Athena as a goddess makes for a very good protection for them
Yes.
In legendary when he says “somebody tell come and give me a sign” the screen turns blue and you can hear the Athena motif in the backround nice little detail
Athena realizing her mistakes and crying about it on the balcony with Telemachus got my emotions flying in so many different directions. And having the WOTM theme play, then switch to Legendary? This saga is absolutely incredible, and broke me at the same time.
Same but maybe do a spoiler mention here for those who have not yet listened to the further songs
@@Souru_TV it switched to Legendary at the end of We’ll Be Fine. That’s what I’m referring to here
Spoiler question
Am I the only one who feels like it's heavily implied Ody was forced to sleep with Calipso ? When she says "Come/climb to bed", is always near him and him being on the cliff at the end in so much pain. Like knowing the original I feel like it did happen here in the Musical-
@@SiIker.yeah… so for the musical it’s kept vague but that IS very likely what’s happened.
@@skyeperez8305I mean, that did happen in the actual odyssey, so I would say yes, that it did also happen in epic but just more vaguely
Great to see Athena again.
Hopefully nothing bad happens to her later down the line
FOUL 💀
THIS IS CRUEL.
HAHAHAH
Well, last I checked, goddesses can't die.
Your reaction to Antinous' existence is so relatable Lol. Though of course, he has one of the greatest vocals and song(s) of this musical. His voice is the perfect Disney villain voice. Because there's this rule: Villains always have the best songs.
Like fire, Hellfire!
Be prepaaaaaaared
20:28 Run man!! he pulled out the chancla!!!
I've gotten to the point where when I was listening to the wisdom saga for the first time my first thought upon hearing some of the lyrics was "I can't wait to see Mortius react to this."
Especially THAT moment of Love in Paradise.
Yeah I can’t wait to see him lose his crap over Love in Paradise
It'll be so fun
Little Wolf leaning so heavily into that older video game theme for the animatic was sick as heck!
Telemochus was born while Ody was still there, because in "Im just a Man" Ody says the baby is the same age a Telemochus was when Ody left. As a baby though, Telemochus doesn't remember "meeting" his dad
To add on to the spoiler at 9:32
Penelope hosts a challenge for the suitors to string up Odysseus’s recurve bow that he didn’t bring to war since it was a present and shoot it through twelve axe heads. Said bow had a ridiculous draw strength so none of them didn’t even stringed it. Then Odysseus, disguised as a beggar, takes on the challenge and easily strings and shoots through the twelve axes while revealing himself in the process. He and Telemachus engaged in much needed father-son bonding by killing most of the suitors.
Personally, I’m interested in seeing how EPIC would do this part
Ah, another OSP fan. I believe that's gonna be shown in the final saga
I’m so excited to see Mortius go through the same pain we go through when Jorge releases new sagas!
Jorge is a snake and we willingly drinking the venom because tastes good but kills you in 52 minutes.
Telemachus and Polities would've gotten along so well 😥
Also did anyone warn him about the livestream hiccup in the middle of Love in Paradise?
28:00 Jus a little correction. Oddy did see Telemachus. "You're as old as he was, when I left for war."
For the "What you gonna do about it champ?", Jorge made a video about how there are a lot of lines in the Wisdom saga that are delivered "so masterfully" it gets stuck in his head, then goes on to say how he's specifically thinking of that line.
SO excited for this but also so excited to see you lose your s*** over Love in Paradise and possibly God Games
I know I did 😂
Also We’ll Be Fine is so wholesome and is up there with Open Arms with my favorites
Fr, "We'll be fine" almost made me cry 😂😂
@@adamsfamily286and the vocals are so beautiful 😭
everyone says we'll be fine is their least favorite of the wisdom saga like WHAT I love it so much I'm tearing up listening to it
I cried so much in we'll be fine😭👍
@@adamsfamily286I did cry, a lot. 😅
I see you planning the debuts for the live streams 30mins apart so once your done with Mortius you can see Caspers reaction I see you
Right? I was curious why Casper's was very specific time
YES!!! TELEMACHUS, THE GLORIOUS DISNEY PRINCESS MUST BE PROTECTED!!! Even though Antinous voice is sooo good. He's awful. I love him 😅
“How did you all know that before the livestream???”
jorge.
Long live Telemachus, the future king of Ithaca! And may he live to slay his enemies just as his father did before him!
18:00 "if i fight this monster is it you ill find". What i love about this line is we know Odysseus is becoming the monster to get home.
Can't wait to see Casper get to *that part* of Love in Paradise
16:19 I love how Mourtius wants beef with a fictional character 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Also Mourtius:Who you think you are? Kratos?
The fact that the line is "Fight LITTLE WOLF" When earlier posiedon said "Guess the pack of wolves is swimming with the shark now." The callback from that was crazy
20 years without a king is quite a reason for their impatient. Ody maybe should have left someone behind to control and protect his kingdom
I think he kind of did but they basically ignored it, and let's not forget the suitors aren't Noble they just each want to be the king (honestly I'm surprised the suitors were ever really United, considering they each want to be Penelope's husband, and there's 108 of them, seriously how did they ever manage to present a united front)
I thought that was Penelope's job?
@@dragansnyder2786 There are a lot of rules for hospitality baked into greek stories. i.e.) Since you can't even know if a god is present in disguise you can't ever turn away a guest. These rules trapped Penelope into accepting the suitors into her home and playing the host. These same rules forbade the suitors from killing each other in their hosts home.
It was less a united front and more of a, "follow the laws."
@@yuukinoyuki9064I'm also pretty sure that there's something in the Greek rules of hospitality about not waddington murder the man who would hypothetically play the head of the household (thank you for providing that little bit of context, it just kind of surprises me because they probably are held together in that way by the hospitality laws, but then these men constantly bluster about how if Odysseus dares to come back into his own house they're going to kill him because there's more of them, and as far as I can tell Odysseus doesn't exactly just start murdering people when he gets home, I think it's more like they realized who he was and tried to kill him and then he started dropping them, right?
@@dragansnyder2786 So, there's actually no blustering about killing Ody. They all 100% believe Odysseus is dead, it's been 10 years since everyone else returned from the war and the last anyone heard Odysseus' ships were seen off the shores of Ithaca and were then swallowed up by a giant storm. His own mother was so convinced of his death that she killed herself (hence why we see her in the underworld.) Recall the prophet's line; "I see your palace, covered in red/faces of men who had long believed you're dead."
A lot of their anger is that Penelope keeps using tricks to prolong making a choice, which - because they're convinced Odysseus is dead - reads like a slap in the face.
There is blustering about killing Telemachus, but that's more because as he ages he becomes a threat to their chance at the throne. But even then, they wouldn't outright kill him and envoke the wrath of the gods, (hence letting him live following 'Little Wolf') they'd make it look like an accident, or force him to break the rules first.
As for Odysseus' return I don't mind sharing but SPOILERS for anyone reading who wants to go in blind.
In the Odyssey, Odysseus sneaks into his Kingdom dressed as an old man. His wife has put together one last stall, saying she'll marry the man who can string her husband's old hinting bow and soot through several tiny rings. Everyone fails and says it's impossible, but then an old man steps up, easily strings the bow, and makes the shot. He then drops his hood and reveals to everyone that it's Odysseus returned.
Man then goes on an absolute murder spree just slaughtering every suitor in his home. So any token fight by the suitors at that point are done in response to the literal arrows of death being rained down on them, lol.
Wisdom Saga actually living to its name with Athena showing some character growth and gaining of wisdom.
Also... in the last saga it has been 12-ish years, and this one started with a splash screen saying "7 years later", Mortius... and Telemachus was a baby when Odysseus left, so he's somewhere in the 20-22 range. Remember "You're as old as he was when I left for war" in Just a Man
Telemachus was born before Odysseus left but he was only a few months old.
16:15 “where’s my sword!” YES this is the first video I’ve watched yours and I loved your vibe since the beginning BUT YES! THIS! I LOVE IT! FUCK HIM UP!
10:41 ah yes, the Odyssey starring: wet Hades, Posiren, Temelonchus and Teagan Earley as divine sugar mama
**Evil laughter** He doesn't know about the dog.
The "DAS MY GIRRL!!!" At the beginning was absolutely hilarious I can't😂😂😂😂😂
Broskis I've been listening to this entire saga on repeat and I can't believe it took me watching this video to realize Athena was present the entire time during legendary! She appears when telempchus says "someone give me a sign" brilliant
28:30 actually he did 'meet' him. Telemachus was actually historically the reason why Odysseus went to war. Ody was pretending to be mad because he didn't want to go. Another guy who's name im forgetting rn(something starting with a P that isn't Polites) threatened to kill Telemachus to prove Odysseus hasn't lost his mind, which worked
"Your as old as he was, when i left for war" implies Odysseus saw baby telemachus
Telemachus is thus 20 years and some months old
Telemachus was actually born before Odysseus went to war. Funnily enough, they never mentioned how Agammemnon tried to stab him as a baby to get Odysseus into the boats for war
Athena went from Divine Sugar Momma to Divine Rich Aunty
1:25 well I don’t know, Jorge released a short celebrating Wisdom saga getting 10million streams in 4 days, so I think he’ll be fine with me watching this stream reaction
28:05 Ody stated in ‘I’m just a man’ that the infant was the same age as Telemachus when Odysseus left for war so Telemachus is probably like 20-23
In the song legendary while the lyric "come and give me a sign" 7:46 plays you can hear the theme from Warrior of the mind in the Background and i think thats really cool
The reason why it’s 20 years is because Telemachus and Penelope have not seen him since he sailed to go and do the Trojan war. The Trojan war itself took 10 years and then it took another 10 years for Odysseus to sail from Troy back to Ithaca. so when he tells Circe that it’s been 12 long years he’s counting the Trojan war.
The whatcha gonna do about it meme is because Jorge posted a tiktok talking about how amazing the line is said in the song and it just became a meme
Telemachus was about 1 month old when Odysseus left. That is according to the book “The Children’s Homer”
WHY DID YOU HAVE TO MAKE US WAIT?! WHHYYYYYYYY????!!!!!! 😫
But regardless I can’t wait to see your reaction!! I guarantee you’ll absolutely love them!! I’m so excited for this hehe!! 🤩
Athena’s theme appears briefly in Legendary. At the word: Sign; in the first prechorus.
About "Whatcha gonna do about it champ" - Jorge talked about that line in one of his shorts and about how badass it sounds
I know you split these up for more videos but I would 100% watch an hour or 2 compilation of you reacting to the whole saga, the wait is just torture 😭
Something I love about Little Wolf is that in Ruthless, Poseidon calls Odysseus and his men a “pack of wolves” so if Ody is a wolf, then that makes Telemachus a little wolf.
Mortius: I'm so glad Athena is back.
Me: 😈😈😈
14:33 *SPOILERS FOR THE ODYSSEY!* if you don’t want to spoil how Epic will end, then please just ignore this comment!
So when the suitors are saying that they still don’t have a king after 20 years, it’s because traditionally if the king went off to war, there would be men who would come to potentially take the place as king if he died while in battle. So the suitors only want to become king by marrying Penelope, who is still queen despite everyone believing that Odysseus is dead. Another fact that makes the suitors even more dangerous towards Telemachus is that it was very common for the children of the previous king that died to be murdered in order to prevent any reasoning for the new king’s child to end up as heir to the throne. So the suitors are already planning Telemachus’ death so that he can’t ascend to the throne and kill them/their heirs for the throne for their injustices. This is another reason why Odysseus is so furious with the suitors when he returns that he and Telemachus end up murdering all of them in cold blood, which was foreshadowed in No Longer You, after he completes Penelope’s challenge and winning back his throne. I know Mortius has said before that he doesn’t know much about the Odyssey because he’s only read what Percy Jackson has mentioned about it, but I think his mind is gonna be blown when he realizes all of the references in No Longer You and many of the other songs in Epic the Musical.
Funny thing about Telemachus name, it literally means "far from battle"
16:24 the editor saying what we’re all thinking
In Legendary the lines "Bring the world some light" and "Where is the man who'll have you to wife" is a reference to two songs that got cut called Into The Light and Man of The House
Also, in Mutiny Eurolychus said "If you want the power you gotta carry all the blame" which is a reference too the song City of Ismaris
Tel: "108 old faces of men who call me small"
Mort: "I'll fight'm!"
😊
17:31 he gives little hints and snippets of the songs before they come out
24:44 reminds me so much of Yu-Gi-Oh. Gives me Pharaoh Atem taking over Yugi vibes, especially with the games aesthetic
Mason's notes absolutely killed me in this one. 😂
“THAT’S MEH GIRLLL” Got me laughing so hard!! And the way you took off the headphones made me crying laughing
little tidbit that was missed that I saw:
at 7:48 there's a little jingle that's very similar to the main Instrumental of Warrior of the mind so That's a little foreshadowing of Athena "leading" Telemachus to his father or Vice Versa
add your own tidbits that you noticed that no one did
Telemachus is so precious omg, I love him sm
Athena just got upgraded to Cool Single Owl-Lady Aunt
A little late because I, unfortunately, haven't had a chance to watch your reaction before now, but Telemachus is closer to 21. In Just a Man Odysseus says " I think back to the son of mine, he was old as you are when I left for war" to the baby. Also, if he had been born after Odysseus left, I would think Ody probably wouldn't have know he existed considering the era and what all has been happening during Ody's time away.
He's got a sword ... HE'S GOT A SWOOORD!!!
I don't think Athena came to Telemachus solely because of what you said. I think she doesn't need a new warrior, she just misses her old one and Telemachus reminded her of him...
Honestly, Telemachus has been the most relatable character in Epic for me so far because I too would attempt to fight a hundred men for one of them calling my mom a tramp and subsequently get my ass beat.
Wait, aren’t the Suitors technically breaking the “Rules of Hospitality”? I thought that was a big thing to the Greeks?
From the creators of "Wet Hades" comes "Temelonchus"
That title is exactly how I feel about Telemachus lol