Benz AMG = MONEY PIT? (Part 1 - Check Engine P2097: Bank 1 Too Rich)
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2024
- Another classic sad Euro story:
"I got a great deal on this hot rod Mercedes, but now I want to sell it ASAP because it's turning into a GIANT MONEY PIT!!"
It doesn't even have 100k miles on the clock...
Check Engine Light (aka MONEY LIGHT) is ON, setting a strange code:
P2097 - "Bank 1 Post-Catalyst Fuel Trim Too Rich"...
But it looks like the entire engine is running LEAN?? Hmmmm...
This Twin-Turbo GDI German beast has a lot of variables and is not going to be easy to diagnose...
Where do we begin?
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Enjoy!
Ivan 
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AMG=in Germany we say: A dieu M ein G eld, means byebye my money😅
Can’t say aufveidesehen, because you’ll never see it again.
@@Grayhook1 You nailed it !
AMG All Money Gone
No matter what, Ivan will have the answer, he always does.
owning older german luxury cars is often like building an outhouse on a geyser.eventually your going to be getting a ton of sh•t.whether you want it or not.
That's funny
Love this 🎉
LOVE YOUR COMMENT.
That was my brothers outcome.
There is no such thing as fixing a 10 year old 100k Benz, it will always be broken in some way no matter how much $$$$ you throw at it.
I learned this early in life. Germans are TERRIBLE engineers, prefering ultra complicated solutions to problems that weren't problems in the first place.
Like a hole in the water that you put money into? (Some call it a boat).
Yep, designed to be the perfect automobile for the first couple of owners and then the expensive troubles begin. If Ivan gets rid of all the lights on the dash the owner should sell it quick!
Always wait until the oil light comes on to check oil level.
we used to do that with slant sixes BUT my cousins oil pressure light burnt out sieged engine after long trip
@@jhonditch4269 those engines were a bit sturdier than this one
@@kevinbarry71 more amazing was on my 64 I got 23 mpg average and Amocco was unleaded fuel. better than most today
I've never seen the oil light come on in any of my cars, even when the oil doesn't register on the dipstick.
Or the engine block creates a new inspection port hole🎉
Bring out the smoke machine, testing for cracked intercoolers , ducting and intake leaks ?
Had a similar problem that turned out to be a failed PCV valve diaphragm letting in excess air
Also vote for smoke machine and exhaust gases test.
How intercooler leak cause lean condition
@@codyarizona4925 it have low pressure on idle even on turbo engines
Take it to Bernie Thompson and let him hook up his 8 channel scope and tail pipe sensors 🤔
The clues standing out to me are loss of coolant, burnt oil smell, and that whine noise when you were revving. Many turbos have coolant and oil lines to them . As you where standing beside the running engine is was noisy. So I am also wondering about the 2 stage oil pressure switch code that was dismissed. That code can set when the vehicle is a quart or more low on oil. So there maybe mechanical damage to the phasers now. I would also verify oil pressure is operating correctly on the 2 stage system. Lots of items for Ivan to sort through.....I can't wait! Hopefully it will be a 3 or 4 parts series.
You never get the easy ones. Mercedes AMG looks like a perfectly crafted nightmare. Can’t wait for part 2
Ivan, Get ready to RETIRE. Start with, both turbos, valve cover gaskets, pan gasket, P/S pump, Transmission, all cooling system hoses..... oh maybe an engine.
I would check to see if the O2 sensors are plugged in right and not crossed. Worth a look. 👀
Waiting on part II. It’s going to be great! 👍
Yes i thought that one, sounds like it
Everything is ok until one small change on either of the banks and wham, runaway trims.
My thought as well, OEM?
Check the intake plenum seals. They can shrink and allow air to pass causing a lean condition. But to have this happen on both cylinder banks is very unusual.
80s Cadillacs would do something similar when the intake would start leaking. The intake rail were under the valve covers so they might go lean, they might suck oil and coolant would end up in the oil. A reasonably consistent way to prove the internal vacuum leak was to remove pcv valve put a vacuum gauge in the hole in the valve cover, block the vent hole on the other one and start the engine. If crankcase went into a vacuum, it was confirmed. Lean codes almost always were involved.
That Model A could be on the road in another 100 years. The case study Merc will be mechanically totaled within three years, if not by the end of this series 😂
Last video: The most primitive type of fuel system, fixed for free using farmer mentality. This video… super complicated computer controlled fuel system problem on one of the most difficult cars to diagnose in the world. I love this channel.
Ivan wants to plug in his OBD scanner in the antique Ford.
I'm going to take a guess, because wild ass guesses are fun! That oil consumption is what's going to be throwing the trims off, and that's why it's intermittent/unpredictable, and that's why there's no 2 gallon puddle of oil under it.
I had an inline 6 GM port injection run rich at about 280k miles. It was the intake manifold gasket leaking.
I knew this was gonna be great after the first four words.."fancy, German money pit"
AMG = All Money Gone 😶🌫️🥺😂😂😂😂
That's funny 🤣🤣🤣
LOL
😅
Funny but this is not an AMG car anyway. The video title does *say* "AMG" but it's an S550, not an S63 or S65.
Audi is usually an even deeper moneypit...
I would check the turbos for oil streaks to the intake. When turbos go bad they'll consume oil rapidly
Interesting case study. Next step is take Amanda with you on a test drive and it will break down on the side of the road. 🤣🤣
Ivan, maybe a call out to Diagnose Dan across the Pond for some ideas on diagnosing problem, he deals with all these exotic and expensive foreign cars.
I'm 3 mins in... to me: "post catalyst system rich" ---- sounds like it's the O2 sensor that is AFTER the catalytic converter. If it's too rich there, it just means that the converter isn't working. That's my initial guess.. Needs a new cat
MB Dealer told Mom it would be $10,000 to fix the issue triggering the "light" on her dash. (Not check engine light.) I did not know about it. She decided to give the car to a relative.
what car?
I've been here many times. Dealing with these Mercs with multiple problems. The repair bills are almost always in the multiple of thousands.
A high end German car that’s a money pit?! Now I’ve heard everything!
What are the odds right??
Inconceivable!
this is why i like my 5 gas analyzer it keeps it honest
10,000 mile oil change intervals, especially for GDI is certainly a problem.
not really
@@hkfan4596 GDI are very bad about fuel dilution into the oil depending on short trips and cold engine starts. You can't just go by mileage in northern climates.
Cars like these need M539Restoration levels of lovin' to keep them in shape.
Looks like Model A in front of you.Best computors in those!!! CHEERS from HERE!
I would check for carbon buildup on the inlet valves before doing anything that's fuel injector related,I was also thinking about using a smoke machine to diagnose any air leaks, also,it could be leaking between the turbochargers & the inlet manifold under boost as well !
2:00 hopefully he meant to say quarts?! 2 gallons is nearly the whole oil capacity of the engine 🤯
Missing coolant and oil? Gasket at the oil cooler dried out and allowing coolant and oil to.mix?
Beautiful car, the S550 is the top of the line and the standard everybody else tries to emulate. I would think this would be a perfect car for someone like you that wouldn't have to rely on the stealership to keep it going. You can pick them up cheap and you really get a lot of car for the money. Yes they are wonderfully complicated but that just adds to the allure for the mechanically inclined. Be tough to get back into the Suzuki after driving a car like this. Keep up the good work!
First thing I would do is see how clean the air filters were, but would do so with almost no hope of it resolving the issue. The second thing I would do is confirm the customer was correct about 2 gallons low vs 2 quarts low of oil. If it was run with 2 gallons low of oil, I would sell it as a running parts car.
A lot of oil
I am sure it was a mistake when the owner said he added 2 gallons of oil to the car the engine would have Hydrolocked and went KA- BOOM and to replace that engine is an easy 25k plus instal that's even if you can find an engine for that car and the AMG engines you can not replace internal engine parts from one engine to another engine
@@rogerstlaurent8704 The total oil capacity of this engine is 8.5 quarts, if it really needed 2 gallons to get the full on the dipstick this engine would be dead.
@@ferrumignis 9 qts.
@@kevin9c1 9 qts including filter etc. 8.5qts if the filter isn't drained.
I would check the high pressure fuel pump for low fuel pressure
CoPilot:
Certainly! Below are the hypothetical manufacturer’s pinpoint tests for P2097 (Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Rich Bank 1):
Check for Trouble Codes:
Inspect Oxygen Sensor Wiring:
Fuel Pressure Test:
Check for Exhaust Leaks:
Monitor Oxygen Sensor Voltage:
Inspect Catalytic Converter:
Verify Fuel Injector Operation:
Check Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor:
Smoke Test for Vacuum Leaks:
Reprogramming or PCM Replacement:
Haven't had time to watch the video yet, but check out all the bores of any bi turbo Mercedes V8 before you invest anything into it. They have problems with the cylinder surface which can't be honed (only bored out and replaced by a liner), they usually scratch the walls and burn oil like crazy.
This is exactly correct. Among other problems, here is this engine out of the car, descriptions of problems and a teardown : ruclips.net/video/wiF-ocGHoRo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/ubMyWT49IWs/видео.html
Stay gold.
Usually in this case engine smoke like hell and oil consumption will be more than a 0.5 liter on 1000km. I will not claim that the mileage is original, but 100k for the Merc, even AMG, is nothing.
@@mustdie1998it's not. I don't think you can easily find an M157 with 100k on an original engine
Just picked up the Autel 2024MX808S just to work on my daughters Mercedes 04 C240
Benn Dover rates for parts for these things even at that age
Seafoam. That fixes everything! I read that on them interwebs.
Thinking he added 2 quarts of oil not gallons but I've been wrong before.
No no no...SPRAY FOAM
@@mikefoehr235 I knew t it was foam something.
@@billmalec watch JUST ROLLED IN...spray foam is a saviour.
TiKTok and Fakebook said Seafoam is the greatest thing ever for your engine it must be true LOL
@@mikefoehr235 I'm sure it is.
Just for grins, check out GDI fuel pressure if you can. Also verify the brand name on the O2 sensors. They should be Bosch. Other than that, you may have intake plenum leaks.
That twin-turbo V8 engine holds nine quarts of oil, and he had to add eight. Could that alone could cause permanent engine damage? I would think so, especially in the turbos.
Eric can tear this engine down in less than a half hour
Eric does do cars😂
Lots of good advice. Agreed, on vacuum leak at plenum, stock o2 ?, I'm in no position to advise Ivan the Great, the slight loss of coolant may be a clue. Being down 2 quarts of oil ( had to be qts.) On such a large capacity isn't much. My son had a c63 normally aspirated AMG. A beast and fun but I convinced him it was time to move on before the pit developed. Good luck and thanks for years of great content.
Two quarts make a whole lot more sense than two gallons.
He mentions two gallons, not two quarts
@@gianfrancoa I think the engine and turbos would be toast if that happened. I hope it was only quarts
@@gianfrancoa Total capacity is around 8.5 quarts, if it needed two gallons Uncle Rodney would be letting you know all about it.
Coolant leak could maybe where the wiper motor is located. There are some coolant lines for the interiorheating. I had also on a Merc S 63amg with cracked coolant pipes
Thanks for the video Ivan.
Oil capacity is about 8 or 9 liters which is...very slightly more in quarts.
So if he added 2 gallons.. that's 8 quarts. So he was down to about 2.5qts.. or lower. lol. Yikes.
Easy, next step, send it off to Wilberts U-Pull. :)
The old T-Model or what ever it was-NEVER AN ENGINE LIGHT : )
Back in those days it was just a loose nut behind the steering wheel 😂
Bet that Mercedes won’t be around in 100 years.
@@gregscott9170 hell...it won't hit 200K. The crusher will win. $100K for 100K miles : )
Hi IVAN
Vanity is a great way to separate the general public from their money 💴
Fantastic tutorial ! Excellent teaching techniques !! Thanks so much Ivan ! I have to give you special commendation for the detail / precision in your coaching cues - the way you verbally state your actions and thought process - as I can track along with you and learn while periodically listening only AND because I am learning how to use the very same scan tool . As you announce every press of the buttons (options) on the screen it becomes clear to me how I am to get the most out of the Thinktool ProS . The unit did not come with instructions but no problemo when you are able to make it so easy to use !! 👊🏼 🔥 📈 🎯 .
I would be curious about the high pressure fuel pump. Is it possibly not delivering enough pressure. Although, I would expect it to set a code...
60mph Humbug...
👍 to see Ivan read the speed ometer at 160...😂😂
Great work ethic as always on a PHAD video!
checking the uk forums for p2097 they all talk about extension wires to the post cat o2,s being the problem hope this might give you some help.
Great car, adding fuel to the engine and mold. To the seat belt..😅
Thank you PHAD
Quite bizarre Ivan. Very puzzling how short and long term fuel trims mismatch. Seems like connectors are crossed. Also looks like an intake air leak to cause the lean condition. I'm sure you will figure it out in one of the upcoming videos.
I would smoke test the intake system and check to see if the O2 sensors are plugged into the correct channels.
Loved this one....part II ?!? plz!
I'd look into possibly the intake for some type of air restriction
This is going to be a good one! I'm guessing its not breathing right, PCV, dirty valves or turbos... can't wait for the next installment ✌
Good afternoon Ivan, I recently diagnoses a 2012 C280 with those same DTC's, turned out that someone had lost the clip that retains the intake air filter assembly to the MAF sensor housing introducing debris into the system. After cleaning the MAF sensor, replacing the retaining clip and resetting adaptations, the fuel trims returned to normal. May not apply in this particular case study, but worth taking a look at the MAF's live data. Thank for the awesome head scratchers🦾
Did your trims normalize under load?
No MAF here... I looked lol! 😊
Yep, you were going in the direction I was thinking....poor air delivery....it could be intake port obstruction, or possibly even turbo inefficiency...but then there's no low boost code so that might cancel that out.....what does that engine use to read air entering the motor? Maybe a relearn adaptation and for all those systems may be in order.....
On a side note.....when is Ivan going to explain his smashed thumb finger???? I know he thinks nobody notices....but we all do...or did I miss an explanation in another comment from a past video already?!?! 😂😂
Doesn’t every mechanic have one?
Next step is call the customer and buy it for Mrs PHAD.
Ivan I have zero clue as ro what my next step would be but I know your the right guy for the job😄 maybe some kind hearted merc tech that’s come across such a problem might give u the heads up?
Tough one, Ivan! If it's reasonably repairable (OEM parts are very expensive), I'm guessing a several part series is coming. I'm expecting multiple problems behind the symptoms, and you can't be sure what customer has done (maybe even oxygen sensors crossed, if at all possible). Let Part 2 be posted 🙂
Finally another mercedes. Pumped
Everyone loves grandpa Scotty.
Sounds like the sensor wires are crossed. Not sure if that can be done on this car but it used to happen on bmw v12s a lot after someone had changed the sensors and not marked the loom for each one.
Btw...it kinda seems like whoever replaced the o2 sensors might have mixed up the pre and post KAT sensor connectors....
Check fuel pressure spark plugs, injectors hope the owner used Bosch or oem O2 sensors
Smoke test for vacuum leaks for lean condition, test turbo shaft for oil and coolant consumption, try pressuring the cooling system
Right off the bat it sounds like the o2 sensors are switched
I thought that...F
Me too
On both banks?
Same thought here. Probably previous shop did not use the correct sensor in the correct location? Or not the correct part number?
Also, if it is burning oil maybe the catalityc converters are bad
So many oil change places and shops unfamiliar with euro vehicles don't know how to correctly reset service. Or they reset the wrong service interval. I recently had a s65 AMG that just said service exceeded by xxxxxx😂
SOURCE PROBLEM: I just had the backlight die on one of my center console buttons. Where do you get those micro bulbs? I saw you replace one on the rare ufo brake car.
dealer says they only sold the button, and they are discontinued as well.
Scotty Kilmer's favorite 😂😂😂
Post Cat seems to suggest it's after the cat, on the rear lambda senser? sounds to me like someone who fitted the sensors might have got the plugs mixed up, plugged sensors into the wrong sockets..F.
Is there any kind of rail pressure actuator like on a common rail diesel. I would check the duty cycle as well as desired and actual pressure.
Definitely smoke test and look for intake system leaks.
Ivan can you explain how to interpret the equivalency ratio PIDS? That is one PID I could never learn how to properly interpret.
Odd thing is, the O² downstream sensor are not always in sync.
I would yank the spark plugs and listen to their story and have a closer look at these O² sensor to check if they are OEM or aftermarket.
What does the fuel rail pressure say?
Were the O2 sensors OEM?
bernie says you need his gas analyzer to help troubleshoot this
Some cars deserve to go out in a blaze of glory. I've always wanted to light off a thermite canister over an engine block. Could this be my opportunity? 😁
What scanner you have used? Thanks a lot
No comment needed. The AMG . All money gone is in the garage of Ivan. I always learn.
Almost makes me think something isn't plugged in correctly. But not sure even how that could be.
What about chowdered valve cover gaskets letting air, coolant and oil through?
This is going to be another "no parts required" video!
I'm willing to bet $1 on it!
I think that's wishful thinking but you know Ivan he never fails to disappoint!
Vacuum leak in the oil separator? Causing fuel trim numbers and the burnt oil smell and consumption?
Smoke test that thing. Might have a wierd vacuum/boost leak that could affect it even tho its a speed density system
Look at the bright side. This car will help you become an electro-mechanical engineer very fast.
Advise the owner to purchase a wheel barrel. Gonna need it to bring you all the money to fix this turd. Not going to be "no parts required"
It's a tough call. But with A/F control issues, I usually start looking for leaks in the intake track. And being that this car has twin turbos means you have a lot more pluming to check.
scored cylinders probably. check compression
I would chase the oil leaks and do an intense visual inspection at the same time while pondering the the other problems have to fix the oil leak anyway after market junk probably
I would really like to see what the fuel pressure is running at. I would also check the air filter and check the air flow.
Any oil in the coolant? Running with low/no oil could be causing that coolant to exit the tailpipe with head problems.
Oh boy, an early M278! I own a W221 but an 07 with the older (and more reliable M273). Mine just passed 100k no issues. Also have an M157 car (which is the AMG version of this M278). That P06DA is probably because his 2 stage oil pump solenoid is unplugged. And the reason he may have done that is my thread on MBworld. Small world.