As a woman, my experience has been that I've been demonized for having emotions, and for hiding them. My experience is that there are too many misogynists who rigged a game where women lose no matter what. If we have emotions like full humans do, this is cast as weakness, whereas if we try to hide emotions like men are allowed to do in such treacherous environments, we are cast as cold and unfeminine. There is no winning a game men invented for men, and to disenfranchise and excise of our humanity and rights as human women.
I agree. If you're a man with emotions, you're called Jesus. If you're a man with no emotions, you're called stoic or sigma wolf or whatever silly title has popped up these days 😂 As a woman of mixed race, I've given up this game a long time ago since I've always seen it as rigged. I am just myself, the world can take it or leave it. Everyone will make this discovery at some point in their life. As they age, their bodies fail them and their looks fade, they realize the world isn't built for the elderly, or the disabled, or those who don't fit into a narrow box. Basically, just love yourself, make yourself happy, help those who you love and find joy in your own little universe. Let the rest of the world play their game.
@@xandercorp6175 Besides my own opinion, which is what it is (qualified as from experience), 30 others who've read my opinion based in my experience seem to prove my sentiments resonate with them. Versus your assertion, apparently that I'm baseless. Of course your experience isn't the same as the lived experience of many others, who happen to qualify, from theirs.
Excellent. As a 70 year old woman and widow I am long past family life, which I loved, but now I also enjoy the loss of so much estrogen which, in hind sight, can some times be a bit crazy making. So grateful that I experienced all that but also loving a new life without it. I now see why the stoics have more appeal to me at this time in life, thank you for your insight. Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.
I enjoyed your comment😊 I feel the same way that hormones can make us all lose our minds, men and women. So much more clarity comes with age. It is almost like a new life. I'm in my early 40s but feel much more settled and calmer now that I can feel my hormones starting to shift. I feel much better than in my 20s and 30s. It's like seeing a part of the world go by without me and being relieved I'm not a part of it! 😂 For some people, that is terrifying but for myself, it's gratitude and relief. I look forward to getting older.
I received your book today, I haven’t finished it yet but from reading your story « where we meet » to reading the title of the other chapters, I can say I’m really excited to read it, and also really thankful for you for writing this book, and sharing your story with us, I hate to say your story hits home, and you describe beautifully painful of what’s going on in my head right now, but I’m here for it, as those doubts and questions keep coming back to bite me in the ass, and I don’t want to silence them anymore.
Britt's book is a great read. I have no fucking idea what she was talking about when she was coming off of the Mormon guys gold tablets and she discovered she was made of carbon👌 🙃 I guess although I'm Christian I always studied game theory or algos so I was never surprised.
Also I wish you Mormons were warned that nietzsche only wrote of Nihilism as philosophy because he hated that he was limited to philosophy and that he could only get published in a woman's magazine. Nietzsche is deliberately misinterpreted to create a deep and wise character rather than a failed author.
Epicurean philosophy is probably much more women-friendly. When Epicurus left Athens for a few months, he actually left Leontion in charge of the Epicurean Garden, which was considered scandalous by some traditionalists like Cicero. She was a hetaira, teacher, philosopher, and author. Other women from the Epicurean Garden were Batis, Hedeia, Mammarion.
It's always pleasant to listen to you speak on things that matter Brit. I don't know why I cried throughout listening but I did, there's just so much to unlearn and relearn. Thank you for the insights.
I remember reading Stoic philosophy and both liking it and realizing these were lessons I already, intrinsically knew. Oh, I have little control in this world? Yeah, I know. Oh, I have to control my emotions? Yeah, I know. I am powerless, and need to make peace with that lest I make myself miserable? Yeah, I know. Water is wet and the sky is blue. Women ALREADY know. There are few "new" lessons stoicism can teach to women. I think the process of female socialization does a lot of the behavioral modification parts of stoicism automatically. I was always confused when men said women were "allowed" to be emotional because... No we aren't? Emotional outbursts are punished quickly and derided in girls/women. I still like it and read it because I like the affirmation, but ... The people who need it are the people for whom these lessons are not as obvious ( aka Men who need to get their own emotions, like anger, under control).
Yeah, I think that things like interdependence and community are also essential for males. As in: most of us can function without it to some degree, but the vast majority of us do way better with healthy and deep connections. And it's interesting, because that's what I read in Seneca's writings. But that's how far my first hand knowledge goes. I read most about Stoïcism through contemporary writers. I think especially people like Holiday paint a very simplified and amaricanized picture of stoïcism. That one dimensionality comes through.
So far the best summary of the points and the missing points in the stoicism from the side of femininity. I would like much you expand it as stoicism misses on the tools for sexuallity and eroticism as a spacial case of a creative relation.
I think we need a social agreement for jester stand up comics where they purposely mock everyone to keep them from being overly prideful like people on stage like in ancient Greece could do without fear of retaliation. There was a important social reasoning for such positions. Sorry tangent. Great video i needed it 😂
I always found it odd how stoic talk is dominated by men but this explains a lot, definitely going to put that Modern Stoicism article on my to read list.
Stoicism makes more sense to me than Buddhism. My father in law once told me that if you take the intersection of ideas of various religious practices, you are left with the most brilliant ideas that humanity has produced.
16:26 ok but, that explains historical differences, the context you're presenting is the traditional one. Modern women are more and more independent and the traditional roles have been significantly reduced in modern society, a career woman has no different concerns and aspirations than a career man has, yet we still see men reaching for stoicism and women reaching for manifestation and spirituality. You answered why stoicism was less popular with women in the past, but why aren't we seeing a rise in popularity of stoicism with women - nowadays?
So what would be a philosophy that takes the “amor fati” and “momento mori” ideas, but instead of channeling that into an independence, channels that towards a more… idk… social or community-based virtues? The embracing of ones own limitations, therefore encouraging one to be radically social and family-driven?
@@ineax7447 I’ve not gotten that impression from anything I’ve heard on the topic of stoicism. The virtue it seems to impart is the overcoming of emotional weakness through determination. If anything, i would describe that as radical internalization of one’s thoughts to foster self purity and simplification. Obviously I’m not claiming authority, I’m seeking to understand, so i apologize if I’m misrepresenting the philosophy.
@@Salamander_falls It's really just trying to look outside one's own box of perception/emotions/etc. which helps with right actions and decisions even in challenging situations. You can look up the stoic theory of appropriation or "oikeiôsis".
@@ineax7447 Exactly! I'm not sure how she missed the cosmopolitanism in Stoicism if she did her homework. Interdependence is a part of our nature: we are rational AND social creatures per Stoicism.
I don't get why certain abilities like empathy, compassion and forgiveness are supposed to be feminine and wisdom, courage, etc. are supposed to be masculine. Everyone can have such abilities regardless of their sex or gender. Seneca also wrote and talked about stoic methodology to a grieving mother, not just to other men. Stoicism was actually one of the first philosophies that included others like women and slaves. I rather have a stoic mother than an overly emotional mother. In tough situations you need someone who will keep you grounded, stay strong and logical, not someone who will cry and make you feel even worse than you already feel and someone you need to worry about in addition to your own problems. I'm female and stoicism has helped me a lot. It's very relatable especially for a very emotional person like me. That's why I was very confused by this video and it really doesn't make any sense to me.
I think you are seeing things in extremes, as someone who grew up with Stoic parents, it wasn't that great either, and I'm probably just as dysfunctional as anyone who has had "overly emotional" parents, I'm very bad at understanding, identifying and expressing my feelings and emotions, because I just go straight to how to fix things because that was all I learnt, there was never space for feelings so nowadays I don't feel much of anything, people see me as cold, and it has affected my relationships. What I think is needed is a middle ground, the wisdom to understand where being more emotional or more logical is appropriate and that depends on many variables, sometimes people don't want solutions, they want someone to listen to them and empathise, sometimes they want help with a game plan.
@@bluester7177 Being stoic doesn't mean you don't listen to people and empathise with them. If you go straight to fixing things then you do have the awareness of the situation including your negative emotions towards that situation otherwise you wouldn't want to fix it in the first place. In addition to that, focusing on fixing it will actually lead to change and improving the situation instead of being stuck in emotions which doesn't really lead you anywhere. Being perceived as cold is only really an issue if it comes to how you treat others. Since stoics also focus on the value and importance of all humans as well as contributing to society, I don't think Stoics would be perceived as cold. Especially if you know about the Stoic ontology of the logos connecting everyone and everything in a spiritual way.
She does seem to misrepresent/misunderstand some Stoic ideas; for example: Stoicism does include inter-dependence (uhm, cosmos, cosmopolitanism, political theory etc); egalitarianism (women are encouraged to study philosophy, see Musonius Rufus); emotions are products of reason as pre-conceptions and judgements, most emotions are errors (pathos, negative emotions) about what is good/bad but some are not (feeling joy when excelling at virtue, e.g.); the four virtues are more like categories and not "subsets"; the essential doctrines of Stoicism include more than just the practical aspects, e.g. metaphysical claims, knowledge claims, the Sage, etc.
@@cypress_piperI understand and don't see a problem if people don't resonate with a certain philosophy but to misrepresent a philosophy and make a whole video on it is concerning especially considering that there are people in the comments agreeing with her while also openly admitting that they don't really know anything or much about this philosophy.
I don't find meditations that useful it's interesting don't regret reading it but not as useful at reading Socrates trial or about diogenes or the cave allegory. I guess it's like what has gone on in my head already but lacking in reality the world is more like a circus 🎪 🤔 and the overt structure ideas to walking apes that aren't self aware is like lipstick on a pig maybe more appropriate for people in higher positions of society where they are more insulated from the hordes. 😂
Stoicism appeals to those who have suffered deeply. In the East, it is harder to be a woman. In the West, it is harder to be a man. We are the West, and on top of that, the expectations placed on men are far more demanding. Add to that that at any time, any woman can point the finger at you and have you arrested without a shred of evidence, whereas the reverse is not true. You can not criticize women without suffering the West's worldwide condemnation and scorn There is an old saying, "Tell me who can not be made fun of nor criticized, and I will show you who has the power." The reverse is true in the East, Middle East, and Africa, where women suffer more and have fewer rights (some place far fewer rights) than the men.
I'm a woman from a western country and Stoicism has helped me in my every day life. It's not about east or west nor man or woman, it's about resonance. If you resonate with this philosophy you will actually be interested in looking into it and learning how great and helpful it actually can be to everyone.
As a woman, my experience has been that I've been demonized for having emotions, and for hiding them. My experience is that there are too many misogynists who rigged a game where women lose no matter what. If we have emotions like full humans do, this is cast as weakness, whereas if we try to hide emotions like men are allowed to do in such treacherous environments, we are cast as cold and unfeminine. There is no winning a game men invented for men, and to disenfranchise and excise of our humanity and rights as human women.
Very well said @kristinmeyer489
I love (and also hate) this so much
I agree. If you're a man with emotions, you're called Jesus. If you're a man with no emotions, you're called stoic or sigma wolf or whatever silly title has popped up these days 😂
As a woman of mixed race, I've given up this game a long time ago since I've always seen it as rigged. I am just myself, the world can take it or leave it.
Everyone will make this discovery at some point in their life. As they age, their bodies fail them and their looks fade, they realize the world isn't built for the elderly, or the disabled, or those who don't fit into a narrow box.
Basically, just love yourself, make yourself happy, help those who you love and find joy in your own little universe.
Let the rest of the world play their game.
No baggage at all in your analysis. Totally unmotivated reasoning.
@@xandercorp6175 Besides my own opinion, which is what it is (qualified as from experience), 30 others who've read my opinion based in my experience seem to prove my sentiments resonate with them. Versus your assertion, apparently that I'm baseless.
Of course your experience isn't the same as the lived experience of many others, who happen to qualify, from theirs.
@@kristinmeyer489 Long-winded way of saying "Nuh-uh uh I've got more likes so it proves I'm right!"
FINALLY! SOMEONE SAYING SOMETHING I KNEW BUT COULDN'T VERBALIZE!!! THANK YOU!!
Excellent. As a 70 year old woman and widow I am long past family life, which I loved, but now I also enjoy the loss of so much estrogen which, in hind sight, can some times be a bit crazy making. So grateful that I experienced all that but also loving a new life without it. I now see why the stoics have more appeal to me at this time in life, thank you for your insight. Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.
I enjoyed your comment😊
I feel the same way that hormones can make us all lose our minds, men and women. So much more clarity comes with age. It is almost like a new life. I'm in my early 40s but feel much more settled and calmer now that I can feel my hormones starting to shift. I feel much better than in my 20s and 30s. It's like seeing a part of the world go by without me and being relieved I'm not a part of it! 😂
For some people, that is terrifying but for myself, it's gratitude and relief. I look forward to getting older.
Glad to hear you are doing well.
I received your book today, I haven’t finished it yet but from reading your story « where we meet » to reading the title of the other chapters, I can say I’m really excited to read it, and also really thankful for you for writing this book, and sharing your story with us, I hate to say your story hits home, and you describe beautifully painful of what’s going on in my head right now, but I’m here for it, as those doubts and questions keep coming back to bite me in the ass, and I don’t want to silence them anymore.
Britt's book is a great read. I have no fucking idea what she was talking about when she was coming off of the Mormon guys gold tablets and she discovered she was made of carbon👌 🙃 I guess although I'm Christian I always studied game theory or algos so I was never surprised.
Also I wish you Mormons were warned that nietzsche only wrote of Nihilism as philosophy because he hated that he was limited to philosophy and that he could only get published in a woman's magazine. Nietzsche is deliberately misinterpreted to create a deep and wise character rather than a failed author.
I really adore Britt for her clear and passionate one liner sentences. Humanity would benefit if she could do this alongside others.
I found this extremely refreshing and especially relatable as a girl interested in philosophy and spirituality. You have a new subscriber!
Epicurean philosophy is probably much more women-friendly. When Epicurus left Athens for a few months, he actually left Leontion in charge of the Epicurean Garden, which was considered scandalous by some traditionalists like Cicero. She was a hetaira, teacher, philosopher, and author. Other women from the Epicurean Garden were Batis, Hedeia, Mammarion.
It's always pleasant to listen to you speak on things that matter Brit. I don't know why I cried throughout listening but I did, there's just so much to unlearn and relearn. Thank you for the insights.
I remember reading Stoic philosophy and both liking it and realizing these were lessons I already, intrinsically knew. Oh, I have little control in this world? Yeah, I know. Oh, I have to control my emotions? Yeah, I know. I am powerless, and need to make peace with that lest I make myself miserable? Yeah, I know. Water is wet and the sky is blue.
Women ALREADY know. There are few "new" lessons stoicism can teach to women. I think the process of female socialization does a lot of the behavioral modification parts of stoicism automatically. I was always confused when men said women were "allowed" to be emotional because... No we aren't? Emotional outbursts are punished quickly and derided in girls/women.
I still like it and read it because I like the affirmation, but ... The people who need it are the people for whom these lessons are not as obvious ( aka Men who need to get their own emotions, like anger, under control).
I think we need more conversations about masculine and feminine energy/archetypes/human-intuition v.s. Language and Biology.
Yeah, I think that things like interdependence and community are also essential for males. As in: most of us can function without it to some degree, but the vast majority of us do way better with healthy and deep connections. And it's interesting, because that's what I read in Seneca's writings. But that's how far my first hand knowledge goes. I read most about Stoïcism through contemporary writers. I think especially people like Holiday paint a very simplified and amaricanized picture of stoïcism. That one dimensionality comes through.
This is a great video, and a very clear-headed summary.
This is my second YT received and I am enthralled in its content. I subscribed immediately.
So far the best summary of the points and the missing points in the stoicism from the side of femininity. I would like much you expand it as stoicism misses on the tools for sexuallity and eroticism as a spacial case of a creative relation.
Thank you! These are excellent points.
I think we need a social agreement for jester stand up comics where they purposely mock everyone to keep them from being overly prideful like people on stage like in ancient Greece could do without fear of retaliation. There was a important social reasoning for such positions. Sorry tangent. Great video i needed it 😂
I always found it odd how stoic talk is dominated by men but this explains a lot, definitely going to put that Modern Stoicism article on my to read list.
I follow you on TikTok and I’m so happy to find you here
I'm glad the algorithm brought me to you! ❤
Stoicism makes more sense to me than Buddhism. My father in law once told me that if you take the intersection of ideas of various religious practices, you are left with the most brilliant ideas that humanity has produced.
This is fantastic! Thank you!
❤
I just realized I have a stoic mother. Yeah it sucked.
Good points!
16:26 ok but, that explains historical differences, the context you're presenting is the traditional one. Modern women are more and more independent and the traditional roles have been significantly reduced in modern society, a career woman has no different concerns and aspirations than a career man has, yet we still see men reaching for stoicism and women reaching for manifestation and spirituality.
You answered why stoicism was less popular with women in the past, but why aren't we seeing a rise in popularity of stoicism with women - nowadays?
Who would have thought…
So what would be a philosophy that takes the “amor fati” and “momento mori” ideas, but instead of channeling that into an independence, channels that towards a more… idk… social or community-based virtues? The embracing of ones own limitations, therefore encouraging one to be radically social and family-driven?
Stoicism. Stoicsm focuses on the value of all humans and each person's important role within and contribution to society.
@@ineax7447 I’ve not gotten that impression from anything I’ve heard on the topic of stoicism. The virtue it seems to impart is the overcoming of emotional weakness through determination. If anything, i would describe that as radical internalization of one’s thoughts to foster self purity and simplification. Obviously I’m not claiming authority, I’m seeking to understand, so i apologize if I’m misrepresenting the philosophy.
@@Salamander_falls It's really just trying to look outside one's own box of perception/emotions/etc. which helps with right actions and decisions even in challenging situations. You can look up the stoic theory of appropriation or "oikeiôsis".
@@ineax7447 Exactly! I'm not sure how she missed the cosmopolitanism in Stoicism if she did her homework. Interdependence is a part of our nature: we are rational AND social creatures per Stoicism.
I don't get why certain abilities like empathy, compassion and forgiveness are supposed to be feminine and wisdom, courage, etc. are supposed to be masculine. Everyone can have such abilities regardless of their sex or gender. Seneca also wrote and talked about stoic methodology to a grieving mother, not just to other men. Stoicism was actually one of the first philosophies that included others like women and slaves. I rather have a stoic mother than an overly emotional mother. In tough situations you need someone who will keep you grounded, stay strong and logical, not someone who will cry and make you feel even worse than you already feel and someone you need to worry about in addition to your own problems. I'm female and stoicism has helped me a lot. It's very relatable especially for a very emotional person like me. That's why I was very confused by this video and it really doesn't make any sense to me.
I think you are seeing things in extremes, as someone who grew up with Stoic parents, it wasn't that great either, and I'm probably just as dysfunctional as anyone who has had "overly emotional" parents, I'm very bad at understanding, identifying and expressing my feelings and emotions, because I just go straight to how to fix things because that was all I learnt, there was never space for feelings so nowadays I don't feel much of anything, people see me as cold, and it has affected my relationships.
What I think is needed is a middle ground, the wisdom to understand where being more emotional or more logical is appropriate and that depends on many variables, sometimes people don't want solutions, they want someone to listen to them and empathise, sometimes they want help with a game plan.
I'd rather have a stoic father and compassioned mother.
@@bluester7177 Being stoic doesn't mean you don't listen to people and empathise with them. If you go straight to fixing things then you do have the awareness of the situation including your negative emotions towards that situation otherwise you wouldn't want to fix it in the first place. In addition to that, focusing on fixing it will actually lead to change and improving the situation instead of being stuck in emotions which doesn't really lead you anywhere. Being perceived as cold is only really an issue if it comes to how you treat others. Since stoics also focus on the value and importance of all humans as well as contributing to society, I don't think Stoics would be perceived as cold. Especially if you know about the Stoic ontology of the logos connecting everyone and everything in a spiritual way.
She does seem to misrepresent/misunderstand some Stoic ideas; for example: Stoicism does include inter-dependence (uhm, cosmos, cosmopolitanism, political theory etc); egalitarianism (women are encouraged to study philosophy, see Musonius Rufus); emotions are products of reason as pre-conceptions and judgements, most emotions are errors (pathos, negative emotions) about what is good/bad but some are not (feeling joy when excelling at virtue, e.g.); the four virtues are more like categories and not "subsets"; the essential doctrines of Stoicism include more than just the practical aspects, e.g. metaphysical claims, knowledge claims, the Sage, etc.
@@cypress_piperI understand and don't see a problem if people don't resonate with a certain philosophy but to misrepresent a philosophy and make a whole video on it is concerning especially considering that there are people in the comments agreeing with her while also openly admitting that they don't really know anything or much about this philosophy.
That's because most women are natural stoics 😊
I don't find meditations that useful it's interesting don't regret reading it but not as useful at reading Socrates trial or about diogenes or the cave allegory. I guess it's like what has gone on in my head already but lacking in reality the world is more like a circus 🎪 🤔 and the overt structure ideas to walking apes that aren't self aware is like lipstick on a pig maybe more appropriate for people in higher positions of society where they are more insulated from the hordes. 😂
Q:"Why no female stoics?"
A: Because Britt you have a "Masters" in philosophy not a "Mistress" in philosophy 😉
Just kidding there have been many women who could live blissful lives without thinking without a sense of self.
Stoicism appeals to those who have suffered deeply. In the East, it is harder to be a woman. In the West, it is harder to be a man. We are the West, and on top of that, the expectations placed on men are far more demanding. Add to that that at any time, any woman can point the finger at you and have you arrested without a shred of evidence, whereas the reverse is not true. You can not criticize women without suffering the West's worldwide condemnation and scorn There is an old saying, "Tell me who can not be made fun of nor criticized, and I will show you who has the power."
The reverse is true in the East, Middle East, and Africa, where women suffer more and have fewer rights (some place far fewer rights) than the men.
I'm a woman from a western country and Stoicism has helped me in my every day life. It's not about east or west nor man or woman, it's about resonance. If you resonate with this philosophy you will actually be interested in looking into it and learning how great and helpful it actually can be to everyone.
Atheist spirituality? Huh?
belief in the divine without the laws of religion. looking it up can send you into a deep dive of religion without spirituality as well
Thank you for this. 🩷