PLEASE READ *before commenting*! 1) Got a question? Please ask it of the Darko.Audio RUclips community (and not me) as I'm off making the NEXT video 2) All comments here are moderated by a third party: instagram.com/p/CTWcokaszpW/ 3) Polite comments that advance the conversation are most welcome (but no URLs, racist/sexist remarks or conspiracy theories, please)
It’s at the point now when John says “and thank you so much for watching” that I look at the timeline to see how long the blooper reel is. Especially liked the zapper today. Oh yeah the video was actually excellent too.
Did you compare the sound quality between playing the same track on the Apple TV and then playing directly to the LS60s with the KEF Connect app? Many audio-related problems occur when you run your music through a TV. I just gave this a listen on my system comparing an Apple TV 4k and the same track running on a Bluesound node. The TV and the Node are connected to the same DAC and stereo equipment. While the sound through the TV/Apple TV 4k combo was ok, the same track was much richer and more 3 dimensional when played through the Node. In my experience, the more simple you keep your signal path, the better the sound.
I had to stop EVERYTHING I was doing because John’s FINALLY talking about Apple Music!!! Thank you so much John!!! Quick Sidenote: I think John noticed that Apple went gapless just like I did.
Still missed a couple of important tricks with the Apple TV: you can remote control the Apple Music app on Apple TV from the iOS Apple Music app by selecting control other tvs and speakers from the iOS airplay menu at the bottom, this gives you essentially the “connect” feature. Another trick is visually browse music on the Apple TV, but you can route the the audio out to another airplay 2 speaker, so indeed you could couple the Apple TV with the WiiM mini, giving you indeed 44.1khz output from its toslink. Another interesting trick is to use that same output speaker menu with Bluetooth speakers, because they will connect automatically when you turn them on once paired, this gives everyone a way to share a Bluetooth speaker easily via AirPlay 2, and the tv can actually be off as well.
Very informative stuff! Have been waiting for this review with a while, as an Apple Music subscriber. Is there a Part 2 coming - with a sound quality-focused appraisal of the Apple TV 4K as a streaming source? Does it cut the mustard..?? Would dearly love to see this.
Thanks for the great content, John! I've been exploring some streaming options in Apple environment; I use Mac mini (M1, silicon) as my Roon Core/Server, and it's connected to my DAC (RME-ADI2) via USB, in Roon TV Remote you can select zones, and if I select Mac mini I can use USB connection which is better than S/PDIF Toslink comes from the TV to my DAC. I know you don't use Mac mini as a streaming server but wanted to share anyway. :)
As an alternative to the Apple TV 4K, I use an iPad mini with USB-C connected to an Apple HDMI adaptor. The adaptor has a USB-C, an HDMI and a USB-A output. Connect the USB-C to a power adapter, the HDMI to the TV and the USB-A to the DAC. This connection plays files without downsampling (even DSF files through Logitech Media Server.) The TV displays exactly what is on the iPad. The landscape mode looks great. The iPad stays charged to 100%. The iPad is my streamer/remote control for all apps available in IOS. The only downside is the cable to the iPad must stay connected. I have a 2 meter USB-C extension cable connected to the iPad and the HDMI adapter. This keeps the adapter behind the monitor/dac.
I can't remember if I commented on the previous video, but since gapless playback is a deal-breaker for me too (I have a streamer in the closet for this reason) I am glad to inform you that I don't know what the hell is happening with google chromecast and mi box s, but plex on the nvidia shield tv pro plays gaplessly and also with plexamps sweet fades if you so wish (I do and I love it).
Agreed. A good Atmos setup playing a good Atmos track brings the music listening experience to a new level. Quite exciting but I’m wishing for more Atmos tracks on Apple Music.
I’m airplaying my Apple Music from my iPhone to LG c2 48” and I plugged my rocket krk’s into the tv and it sounds great to me.wonder when apple are going to bring high res to the Apple TV 🤔
Problem is you’re using ARC for output. You need a receive or sound processor for this purpose. You only send video to your Samsung frame, audio is sent via various outputs to hour DAC in exact format they’re in. Being 44/48/96 or whatever else.
John, I’m convinced you are obsessed with gapless. OCD as they say lol 😂 I enjoy your content and actually purchase some of the products you demonstrate. Cheers 🍻
flippin' heck! think I'll stick to playing records! No gaps and no displays to worry about, just sit back and enjoy the music. Life can be simple if you want it to be? I'm only jokin' but???😕
John, just let me know if you want to invite me to come over to your place, drink some coffee and listen to some gapless music. Almost live next door (well less than 5km I guess).
I'm loving the Future Loop Foundation album. So much more mellow than the drum & bass I was into back in the late nineties, but right where I am tonight. Thanks John!
Hello again John - It’s funny but I hadn’t realised you’d already done this when I commented on your earlier video on this subject, before you’d tried out an Apple TV and you were testing out the other Samsung. Whether or not you get chance to read that other comment, I think it still holds true that, given the reasons you said you wanted this visual interaction on the big screen, there are much simpler ways of achieving the same (or perhaps better result) without the complications and compromises you’ve encountered. If your primary objective is to give yourself something to visually interact with, both whilst listening and to enhance the music browsing and discovery process you get from using systems like Roon, there’s a much easier way to have the full Roon experience on a large screen ‘between the speakers’ whilst still allowing Roon to optimise the sound quality to the endpoint being used for the audio playback. [EDIT: Since my previous (and yes longwinded) comment have found several alternatives worth mentioning for those that don’t already know this: 1. If your Smart TV has Chromecast built in, in Roon >Settings>Displays you can display the playing album art (and dynamic lyrics if you want) for any/each Roon Endpoint on that Chromecast device; 2. If not, as you already have a Chromecast dongle thingy, you can do the same as above just by first plugging it into your TV; 3. Nearly all Smart TV’s have or can act as a web browser - in Roon >Settings>Displays just copy the URL and enter this in the TV’s web address bar; 4. As previously stated, using your Apple TV you can use AirPlay to MirrorScreen to show everything you’re viewing in the Roon iOS app on the big screen In ALL the above options, Roon core is still sending the highest quality audio/data stream possible direct to your Roon endpoint (no 48Khz eARC limitation from your TV) and the TV is just showing video data. Have also just discovered these new(ish) high end Korean made Streamer/DAC/Pre-amp devices from a brand called HiFi Rose which also can separately output 4k video to your TV from not just RUclips but also the Tidal video content. Not sure if or how it’s Roon Ready integration provides for any video output like the above (which would be good). Maybe worth a look John, if you get chance?]
I‘m still baffled that Apple Music HiRes Streaming is only possible from an iOS/iPadOS device via cable connection. No support on Apple TV, AirPlay also not enough resolution, no standard like Spotify connect so no Apple Music streamers. I mean yeah, HiRes is not that big a jump as lossless, but still: Apple should take the HiFi nerds more seriously and offer better possibilities for HiRes.
Slight correction, the “connect” feature indeed does exist for Apple Music: the iOS app can act as the remote control by selecting the “control other speakers and tvs” at the bottom of the AirPlay menu when in the app.
@@ProfessorHamer the 'connect' feature of Spotify or tidal is not just a remote control, it is channeling the music from your router directly to the streamer. With airplay the apple device is doing the streaming, and the quality is potentially impaired
I was wondering about tv/movie viewing experience of a stereo set up with no centre speaker. Does anyone have experience of this? Does speech still sound centred at the screen?
If you have selected some music and start listening, (apple music), push the menu button 7times and the apple screensaver comes on, then you have something to look at🌎🌏🌍.
My experience with this stuff (no opinions, just reporting experiences). My original living room setup was AppleTV (HDMI into), 4K TV, which then TOS into a second hand Denon Hi-Fi unit, with stereo speakers. I was a long time iTunes user (purchased music) when back in UK. Now based in Japan, it's a right royal PITA to continue with that (payments etc, with Japan credit cards to UK iTunes), so I decided to use Spotify for my music streaming service (connecting to my Japanese payment methods). Very happy with Spotify on my computer, iFi DAC, good headphones, or on the move. But, Spotify on Apple TV was dreadful. It's capped to 160kps, so everything was a muddy mess. So, I ended up eventually getting a Bluesound Node (Spotify Connect and connect into the Denon). Such an improvement. If you are an Apple Music user, then I think the setup you described is fantastic. It's a shame it didn't work out for me, because I did like the big screen displaying the album artwork.
Fire TV was briefly mentioned. I can confirm that my Amazon Fire TV Cube (can’t speak for the stick version) does output 24/192 over HDMI into my Marantz NR1510 receiver.
Good video! Its mad to think that these days we have DSD 1024, MQA, crazy upsamplers available for a range of devices, and gapless playback is still missing on a lot of these applications. I would have thought the service providing the hi-res music would have wanted more control over how their apps work in different ecosystems!
I'm content to use my phone or tablet to control my streaming. Sometimes I use screen mirroring get my TV showing my streamer's control app, or tidal connect, BBC sounds etc. This way I have the sound quality of my expensive hifi streamer, plus a big screen when I occasionally wish for it.
Been using wireless apple itunes/music since i was running it out of an airport express via a 3.5 into am amp. And well ditto! Now on 2nd apple TV. Have had issues via iTunes on pc via airplay with them. At best buy yesterday and their tech recommended a mac mini. Im looking for a streamer considering ifi zen to use for airplay into a denafrips ares 2 to sugden signature a21L to heresy 4. Therefore how about a step up to a mac mini review tv off wireless keyboard small monitor or . . . ??? In addition at least via iTunes pc which i enjoy it has a built in manual eq.
Art gallery app on the LG c2-is there a way to play your own music over the images or are you stuck with the music that comes with the downloaded images? Every time I try it takes me out of the gallery app.LG have missed a trick I think
Toslink was originally limited to 48khz, wouldn't surprise me to see that TV use this old version. Toslink is really bad by the way, considering modern sourround sound as well.
Apple Music recently shocked me. I’ve had Tidal since it’s launch, I’m an avid user of Roon. But Apple Music is hosting the Fabric CD series. And DJ-Kicks. And Boiler Room. It has an entire section dedicated to one of my favorite musical mediums, the DJ set. Now, I e spent years curating my Tidal playlists and such, and Apple Music isn’t even close to Roon for at-home playback. But oh boy this content is making it hard.
(Hi John!) if you airplay the audio from the Apple TV to the KEF, would it still be 48k? Remember reading that the Apple TV was capable of HiRes if airplaying to a capable device…
It shows lossless on the apple tv but from what ive read from peoples experiments, it goes to lossy compression even using airplay. Quite honestly, i cant hear a difference in airplay vs hdmi. Still better than spotify and tidal in my opinion (wired or wireless)
It should not resample if you send the airplay stream out from the Apple TV. No high-res I think though, since AirPlay 2 is capped at 48/24 at the moment I understand.
Just wondering if the quality of sound when streaming movies is also "capped" just as with the streaming apps? Not just for movies, but say there's a recording of a live performance, would it be beneficial to listen to the album on Tidal or video version of said performance on Prime (purely for the sound)?
Darko, I do not know if you know, but in equipment such as Arcam ST60, you can enter the home address of the streamer via a web browser on the tv or PC or tablet and there is displayed in a very nice way the album cover, all the necessary data along with the data transfer speed, without any hassle, Brilliant. I have not read such information anywhere, I found it myself, checking if it was possible to control the streamer functions from the browser level and it turned out that you can also display the cover.
I have tried comparing my FLACs to my Spotify streams but they are usually always a different release of the album, making a real comparison impossible.
Fever Ray! I recently rediscovered that album. I'd forgotten how good it is. This video was helpful. Understanding the nitty gritty of getting gapless playback from various streaming services in various situations can be such a huge rabbit hole. This video shined a light down that hole. Thanks!
Fun video! Thanks. Since John talked about Apple Music and how it streams through iOS devices instead of controlling an external streamer, I would like to add this: with an Apple TV hooked up, any iOS device running Apple Music can be used as a „remote“ for the Apple TV. I am not talking about the App replacing the physical remote, I am talking about a Spotify Connect like way of controlling Apple Music on the Apple TV box.
Indeed I had the same comment, but I think it’s not obvious how to do it, it’s hidden at the bottom of the AirPlay menu, but then the Apple Music iOS app changes the playlist automatically.
I bought a Samsung Frame a year ago and am happy. I had to immediately turn off the default noise reduction, sharpening, motion blur and all the rest of that rubbish that made everything look plastic. Sound through my hi-fi of course.
Is there a way to let the frame tv go into art mode while listening or are you strictly looking at the album art through preferred streaming service? Wondering how to stream music through the system and just see art on the wall?
Spotify run from the Amazon 4k fire Stick on my LG TV plays gapless playback. However the Spotify app on the LG TV didn't play gapless playback. very odd but very true. The sound quality is different also, even though both were connected to my amp via Toslink into my Chord 2qute DAC. I'm really enjoying your exploration of streaming music through a TV, because this is what I want to explore more of. I feel I could do better than my existing set up. My main questions are do Tidal and Amazon music apps both play gapless playback and CD quality sound?
Did you try PCM pass through setting on Samsung TV via HDMI eARC connection? I haven’t checked if it still up/down samples to 48kHz. Worth checking out. I’m using Bluesound node 2021 as a streamer DAC. So I couldn’t see the bit rate.
This is HUGE for a full build out in Roon ! I'm with ya John this is Great ! John is the only one who puts on his future + better glasses with regard to Artists & their craft.... helping audiences feel more connected... I mean BRILLIANT!!
It is possible to connect the chromecast with google tv directly to a dac via a usb c dongle, the chromecast has a sample rate of 96 KHz. So that's one way of getting higher quality audio. Just letting You know. 😅
If you have an NAD M10v2 or NAD M33 connected to the TV,just switch to the hdmi channel where the NAD its connected and the TV would show the album and so on playing trough blueos.
Hi! I’m from France. Really curious to see what you are going to say about the keff ls60!!! I really really like your work and your Chanel. Thank you to share your love of music and high-tech.
well it is resampling at 48khz but it is 24 bit 48khz so this is hi-res already… people often forgen that it is 24 bit and not 16 bit… a 44.1khz at 24 bit is already considered as hi-res… Apple tv4k is delivering a 24bit 48khz output
I've had Apple TV, for years, and didn't realise Tv remote app existed. Once you get your head round what the IP address is and to port Number is. Works a charm
Thanks so much for this video. I am a long time Roon user that occasionally used an Apple TV as and endpoint but was never really happy with that due to the lack of control and track information. I was excited to learn about the TV:Remote app and immediately purchased it and is a far better experience which I will now use more often playing over my multi-channel system when not running my main two channel system.
I am stepping away from my old home cinema receiver to stereo system in steps, with most of our music being streamed from tidal. Initially streaming was done through our Frame tv. Step one was the speakers (got kef R3s). Negotiating the price I got opportunity to get simple streaming box (arylic based TWA-10B) below original ask price. So streaming is sorted at entry level. I want the system to be headphone friendly (using my LCD-X extensively in the evenings) and possibly simple. Final step will be proper streamer + amplifier. I already tested powernode against my current amplituner+tv - no big difference unless playing mqa. Headphones got way below what I'm getting with my portable dac/amp (hip dac 2). So now looking at various options: 1. NAD M10 V2 (still need to test) 2. UNITI ATOM (was listening to that and liked it on speakers, not really on headphones) 3. Matrix Audio element I2 + non integrated power amp (as far as I was reading DAC + HP implementation will surpass 1&2, so amp will be the key) What would be your suggestion? My feeling is that only option 3 is going to hit all the boxes. I prefer bit darker/warmer but still detailed presentation (favs are rock and electronic). So I am looking at hybrid PAs that will happily drive R3s :)
If Apple were to get the sample rate problem under control (it's shameful that they don't do bit correct payback after all these years), then the AppleTV would be a great streamer option. With Apple Music now having hi-res audio and Apple Music Classical on the way, it needs to happen yesterday.
I enjoy using my Apple TV for streaming as well. For critical listening I prefer to stream my local hires music files and I use streaming services primarily to discover new music or watch music videos. So not having “hires” lossless content doesn’t bother me. But for sure the ease of using the UI in combination with the large display of a TV is a desirable thing to have.
Hi from cold Sydney John. I’m enjoying your presentation of these streaming setups that involve visuals through the tv. I haven’t quite crossed that bridge for my own preferences /listening setup /environments. How do you currently use/ see your other streaming devices like the auralic aries? I assume you might be able to set the roon streaming to send visuals to tv and draw your audio from the aries to your dacs. I think. Where does that sit currently for you in that balance between best audio possible v visual input? Or is the aries streamer put away for the apple tv setup? Cheers. Peter T
Great Video John. As always. I use a ATV 4K with a HDMI Extractor for a direct Toslink Output of the Device. The TV OS resamples also everything to 48kHz all the time but ist works fine for me.
Hi there. Been looking at ways to get album artwork on the TV while listening to Music. So if you have an Apple TV, you can use your Macbook as the source. I open tidal connect to my BlueOS Powernode or Naim Amp. Then airplay the Macbook in extended mode while app is fullscreen. This was you get fullscreen album artwork and high res audio at the same time.
I was skeptical about apple tv as my streaming device before but i took the plunge and bought the apple tv 4k to know if the quality was good enough. After all i can still use it as my netflix box if im not happy with the audio quality. Its really better than spotify even if its just coming from a optical from the tv. tried it via airplay, i dont why but it seems to be better in airplay mode (ifi zen stream). Then paid for spotify app for a month to test through spotify connect, apple music is still better. Glad i bought into apple tv 4k, its my all in one streaming device for a year now.
I recently bought a 2021 Samsung The Frame. The art feature was the primary selling point for us. Unfortunately the periphery of the screen has noticeable blotches that drive me crazy. Tried two units, and it was present in both...
Lol.... and I was so excited to find a Apple Airport Express at my local op Shop last week and discover that I could connect it to my old Sansui AU 417 and send it wifi from my iPad Air 🥳
nice video as always!!! I think you could also make the samsung frame tv work if using android. I use a samsung tablet as a remote for roon. I`m pretty sure this tv has the smart view setting that lets you mirror the screen of your tablet to the samsung tv. That way you can still see displayed on the screen what you have on your remote on the samsung tablet, without having to fuzz around with your actual streamer settings at all. just basically plug, play and mirror. My setup includes an SOTM-SMS200 as an audio streamer, passing then to a Chord Mojo and then to a raven audio tube amp, I really like how this sounds but definitely a visual component will be greatly appreciated. I have been looking for an option like this, and I recon mirroring the remote screen if you are an android user is the simplest way to go. Would you agree?
7:03 In the US we do not get a Toslink output on ATV.... Apple TV 3 had one, but nothing past that. I really wish we did, because I do not use HDMI in my setup.
really odd and potentially silly question (so apologies) but i was inspired by you to put plants around my speakers - it looks awesome! is there a minimal distance you would suggest having them both behind the rear port or to the sides? yours look quite snug but it may not matter regarding sound quality? told you it was odd!!
Man, when you scroll through your Roon Artist View it is just scary how similar my list is to yours. Also, fully agree that enjoying sound quality is more than just sonic fidelity. What you see and feel is indeed important as well. I'd also add where you are and who you are with play a huge role
When you stream using volumio or roon, would you see the album artwork on the screen? Or is that only achieved when you use apps native to the Samsung's operating system?
i'm hoping someone will help me, will i get the same audio quality using apple tv as a music streamer instead of wiim pro? i can only get one @ the moment.
PLEASE READ *before commenting*!
1) Got a question? Please ask it of the Darko.Audio RUclips community (and not me) as I'm off making the NEXT video
2) All comments here are moderated by a third party: instagram.com/p/CTWcokaszpW/
3) Polite comments that advance the conversation are most welcome (but no URLs, racist/sexist remarks or conspiracy theories, please)
The Frame + Apple TV + KEF LS60 might be one of the sleakest looking systems I've seen. Could definitely be my next setup.
It’s at the point now when John says “and thank you so much for watching” that I look at the timeline to see how long the blooper reel is. Especially liked the zapper today. Oh yeah the video was actually excellent too.
I aspire to be you. I'm also drunk, so please take that into consideration.
Did you compare the sound quality between playing the same track on the Apple TV and then playing directly to the LS60s with the KEF Connect app? Many audio-related problems occur when you run your music through a TV.
I just gave this a listen on my system comparing an Apple TV 4k and the same track running on a Bluesound node. The TV and the Node are connected to the same DAC and stereo equipment.
While the sound through the TV/Apple TV 4k combo was ok, the same track was much richer and more 3 dimensional when played through the Node.
In my experience, the more simple you keep your signal path, the better the sound.
I had to stop EVERYTHING I was doing because John’s FINALLY talking about Apple Music!!! Thank you so much John!!!
Quick Sidenote: I think John noticed that Apple went gapless just like I did.
„No HiRes For You - Come back one Year“
- Loving my Seinfeld
Still missed a couple of important tricks with the Apple TV: you can remote control the Apple Music app on Apple TV from the iOS Apple Music app by selecting control other tvs and speakers from the iOS airplay menu at the bottom, this gives you essentially the “connect” feature. Another trick is visually browse music on the Apple TV, but you can route the the audio out to another airplay 2 speaker, so indeed you could couple the Apple TV with the WiiM mini, giving you indeed 44.1khz output from its toslink. Another interesting trick is to use that same output speaker menu with Bluetooth speakers, because they will connect automatically when you turn them on once paired, this gives everyone a way to share a Bluetooth speaker easily via AirPlay 2, and the tv can actually be off as well.
"Fisher Price Simple" .... you crack me up, John!
Very informative stuff! Have been waiting for this review with a while, as an Apple Music subscriber. Is there a Part 2 coming - with a sound quality-focused appraisal of the Apple TV 4K as a streaming source? Does it cut the mustard..?? Would dearly love to see this.
Thanks for the great content, John! I've been exploring some streaming options in Apple environment; I use Mac mini (M1, silicon) as my Roon Core/Server, and it's connected to my DAC (RME-ADI2) via USB, in Roon TV Remote you can select zones, and if I select Mac mini I can use USB connection which is better than S/PDIF Toslink comes from the TV to my DAC. I know you don't use Mac mini as a streaming server but wanted to share anyway. :)
As an alternative to the Apple TV 4K, I use an iPad mini with USB-C connected to an Apple HDMI adaptor. The adaptor has a USB-C, an HDMI and a USB-A output. Connect the USB-C to a power adapter, the HDMI to the TV and the USB-A to the DAC.
This connection plays files without downsampling (even DSF files through Logitech Media Server.)
The TV displays exactly what is on the iPad. The landscape mode looks great.
The iPad stays charged to 100%.
The iPad is my streamer/remote control for all apps available in IOS.
The only downside is the cable to the iPad must stay connected. I have a 2 meter USB-C extension cable connected to the iPad and the HDMI adapter. This keeps the adapter behind the monitor/dac.
Of course as soon as I left a comment, the whole thing stopped working.... The Apple TV is an awesome idea. :>)
I can't remember if I commented on the previous video, but since gapless playback is a deal-breaker for me too (I have a streamer in the closet for this reason) I am glad to inform you that I don't know what the hell is happening with google chromecast and mi box s, but plex on the nvidia shield tv pro plays gaplessly and also with plexamps sweet fades if you so wish (I do and I love it).
This review is a weird unicorn - a crossroads of everything I'm interested in right now. Pretty amazing, thanks.
Apple Music on Apple TV 4K will let you do Atmos audio using an AV Receiver with HDMI in full 5.1.4 glory. This is amazing and worth trying.
Agreed. A good Atmos setup playing a good Atmos track brings the music listening experience to a new level. Quite exciting but I’m wishing for more Atmos tracks on Apple Music.
It is that an audiophile quality bug zapper? Does it zap in high res audio? We need to know John. Oh yeah, great review.
and is it gapless - if it isn't gapless zapping then I for one am not interested.
I’m airplaying my Apple Music from my iPhone to LG c2 48” and I plugged my rocket krk’s into the tv and it sounds great to me.wonder when apple are going to bring high res to the Apple TV 🤔
Problem is you’re using ARC for output. You need a receive or sound processor for this purpose. You only send video to your Samsung frame, audio is sent via various outputs to hour DAC in exact format they’re in. Being 44/48/96 or whatever else.
John, I’m convinced you are obsessed with gapless. OCD as they say lol 😂 I enjoy your content and actually purchase some of the products you demonstrate. Cheers 🍻
flippin' heck! think I'll stick to playing records! No gaps and no displays to worry about, just sit back and enjoy the music. Life can be simple if you want it to be? I'm only jokin' but???😕
John, just let me know if you want to invite me to come over to your place, drink some coffee and listen to some gapless music. Almost live next door (well less than 5km I guess).
LS60 not Roon Ready at launch ? Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Very disappointing. Shame on you, Kef.
I'm loving the Future Loop Foundation album. So much more mellow than the drum & bass I was into back in the late nineties, but right where I am tonight. Thanks John!
Hello again John - It’s funny but I hadn’t realised you’d already done this when I commented on your earlier video on this subject, before you’d tried out an Apple TV and you were testing out the other Samsung. Whether or not you get chance to read that other comment, I think it still holds true that, given the reasons you said you wanted this visual interaction on the big screen, there are much simpler ways of achieving the same (or perhaps better result) without the complications and compromises you’ve encountered.
If your primary objective is to give yourself something to visually interact with, both whilst listening and to enhance the music browsing and discovery process you get from using systems like Roon, there’s a much easier way to have the full Roon experience on a large screen ‘between the speakers’ whilst still allowing Roon to optimise the sound quality to the endpoint being used for the audio playback.
[EDIT: Since my previous (and yes longwinded) comment have found several alternatives worth mentioning for those that don’t already know this:
1. If your Smart TV has Chromecast built in, in Roon >Settings>Displays you can display the playing album art (and dynamic lyrics if you want) for any/each Roon Endpoint on that Chromecast device;
2. If not, as you already have a Chromecast dongle thingy, you can do the same as above just by first plugging it into your TV;
3. Nearly all Smart TV’s have or can act as a web browser - in Roon >Settings>Displays just copy the URL and enter this in the TV’s web address bar;
4. As previously stated, using your Apple TV you can use AirPlay to MirrorScreen to show everything you’re viewing in the Roon iOS app on the big screen
In ALL the above options, Roon core is still sending the highest quality audio/data stream possible direct to your Roon endpoint (no 48Khz eARC limitation from your TV) and the TV is just showing video data.
Have also just discovered these new(ish) high end Korean made Streamer/DAC/Pre-amp devices from a brand called HiFi Rose which also can separately output 4k video to your TV from not just RUclips but also the Tidal video content. Not sure if or how it’s Roon Ready integration provides for any video output like the above (which would be good). Maybe worth a look John, if you get chance?]
I‘m still baffled that Apple Music HiRes Streaming is only possible from an iOS/iPadOS device via cable connection. No support on Apple TV, AirPlay also not enough resolution, no standard like Spotify connect so no Apple Music streamers. I mean yeah, HiRes is not that big a jump as lossless, but still: Apple should take the HiFi nerds more seriously and offer better possibilities for HiRes.
Slight correction, the “connect” feature indeed does exist for Apple Music: the iOS app can act as the remote control by selecting the “control other speakers and tvs” at the bottom of the AirPlay menu when in the app.
@@ProfessorHamer the 'connect' feature of Spotify or tidal is not just a remote control, it is channeling the music from your router directly to the streamer. With airplay the apple device is doing the streaming, and the quality is potentially impaired
Actually you can turn off Dolby Atmos in settings in music app, so you can get gap less and full stereo 😃
You definitely made my day with the quote: "Fischerprice simple". Thanks for an excellent channel... for sure one of my favourites.
I was wondering about tv/movie viewing experience of a stereo set up with no centre speaker. Does anyone have experience of this? Does speech still sound centred at the screen?
If you have selected some music and start listening, (apple music), push the menu button 7times and the apple screensaver comes on, then you have something to look at🌎🌏🌍.
My experience with this stuff (no opinions, just reporting experiences).
My original living room setup was AppleTV (HDMI into), 4K TV, which then TOS into a second hand Denon Hi-Fi unit, with stereo speakers. I was a long time iTunes user (purchased music) when back in UK.
Now based in Japan, it's a right royal PITA to continue with that (payments etc, with Japan credit cards to UK iTunes), so I decided to use Spotify for my music streaming service (connecting to my Japanese payment methods).
Very happy with Spotify on my computer, iFi DAC, good headphones, or on the move.
But, Spotify on Apple TV was dreadful. It's capped to 160kps, so everything was a muddy mess.
So, I ended up eventually getting a Bluesound Node (Spotify Connect and connect into the Denon). Such an improvement.
If you are an Apple Music user, then I think the setup you described is fantastic. It's a shame it didn't work out for me, because I did like the big screen displaying the album artwork.
Snappy! I just hope I live long enough that 'Super' becomes unfashionable. 'Really' has almost disappeared!
Fire TV was briefly mentioned. I can confirm that my Amazon Fire TV Cube (can’t speak for the stick version) does output 24/192 over HDMI into my Marantz NR1510 receiver.
Good video! Its mad to think that these days we have DSD 1024, MQA, crazy upsamplers available for a range of devices, and gapless playback is still missing on a lot of these applications. I would have thought the service providing the hi-res music would have wanted more control over how their apps work in different ecosystems!
What do you think of streaming from Mac mini. Something to explore?
I'm content to use my phone or tablet to control my streaming. Sometimes I use screen mirroring get my TV showing my streamer's control app, or tidal connect, BBC sounds etc. This way I have the sound quality of my expensive hifi streamer, plus a big screen when I occasionally wish for it.
Been using wireless apple itunes/music since i was running it out of an airport express via a 3.5 into am amp. And well ditto! Now on 2nd apple TV. Have had issues via iTunes on pc via airplay with them. At best buy yesterday and their tech recommended a mac mini. Im looking for a streamer considering ifi zen to use for airplay into a denafrips ares 2 to sugden signature a21L to heresy 4. Therefore how about a step up to a mac mini review tv off wireless keyboard small monitor or . . . ??? In addition at least via iTunes pc which i enjoy it has a built in manual eq.
Art gallery app on the LG c2-is there a way to play your own music over the images or are you stuck with the music that comes with the downloaded images? Every time I try it takes me out of the gallery app.LG have missed a trick I think
Toslink was originally limited to 48khz, wouldn't surprise me to see that TV use this old version.
Toslink is really bad by the way, considering modern sourround sound as well.
Apple Music recently shocked me. I’ve had Tidal since it’s launch, I’m an avid user of Roon. But Apple Music is hosting the Fabric CD series. And DJ-Kicks. And Boiler Room. It has an entire section dedicated to one of my favorite musical mediums, the DJ set. Now, I e spent years curating my Tidal playlists and such, and Apple Music isn’t even close to Roon for at-home playback. But oh boy this content is making it hard.
I have similar setup, Apple TV 4K, LG OLED, digital or bluetooth out to devices, works awesome.
(Hi John!) if you airplay the audio from the Apple TV to the KEF, would it still be 48k? Remember reading that the Apple TV was capable of HiRes if airplaying to a capable device…
It shows lossless on the apple tv but from what ive read from peoples experiments, it goes to lossy compression even using airplay. Quite honestly, i cant hear a difference in airplay vs hdmi. Still better than spotify and tidal in my opinion (wired or wireless)
@@justanobody4983 AirPlay uses Apple Lossless codec for pure audio streams, always has done.
It should not resample if you send the airplay stream out from the Apple TV. No high-res I think though, since AirPlay 2 is capped at 48/24 at the moment I understand.
Just wondering if the quality of sound when streaming movies is also "capped" just as with the streaming apps? Not just for movies, but say there's a recording of a live performance, would it be beneficial to listen to the album on Tidal or video version of said performance on Prime (purely for the sound)?
Darko, I do not know if you know, but in equipment such as Arcam ST60, you can enter the home address of the streamer via a web browser on the tv or PC or tablet and there is displayed in a very nice way the album cover, all the necessary data along with the data transfer speed, without any hassle, Brilliant. I have not read such information anywhere, I found it myself, checking if it was possible to control the streamer functions from the browser level and it turned out that you can also display the cover.
I have tried comparing my FLACs to my Spotify streams but they are usually always a different release of the album, making a real comparison impossible.
THIS answered so many of my Apple TV 4k + music streaming questions! Thank you!!💖
Fever Ray! I recently rediscovered that album. I'd forgotten how good it is. This video was helpful. Understanding the nitty gritty of getting gapless playback from various streaming services in various situations can be such a huge rabbit hole. This video shined a light down that hole. Thanks!
Fun video! Thanks. Since John talked about Apple Music and how it streams through iOS devices instead of controlling an external streamer, I would like to add this: with an Apple TV hooked up, any iOS device running Apple Music can be used as a „remote“ for the Apple TV. I am not talking about the App replacing the physical remote, I am talking about a Spotify Connect like way of controlling Apple Music on the Apple TV box.
Indeed I had the same comment, but I think it’s not obvious how to do it, it’s hidden at the bottom of the AirPlay menu, but then the Apple Music iOS app changes the playlist automatically.
Have you tried the Naim Uniti Atom with the Frame TV? Should be a interesting combination.
Hope one day TVs will be genuine Hi-res streaming devices…
5:33 how did you install tidal on samsung tv? i cannot find it smart tv store. is that related with smart tv region?
Probably is not for your region at least yet ? I don’t know only this reason especially if you have the last software update
Informative but I can't help thinking this seems a complicated way just to play music
I also like the real time lyric scroll on Apple Music. I’m simple like that.
Same. Hope they do it for all tracks. Sometimes i like to sing along in my head.
I bought a Samsung Frame a year ago and am happy. I had to immediately turn off the default noise reduction, sharpening, motion blur and all the rest of that rubbish that made everything look plastic. Sound through my hi-fi of course.
Does the tv comes with a native app of Apple Music and Apple TV as the majority of Samsung tvs after 2018?
Thanks
You are starting to repeat yourself, but I love it.
Is there a way to let the frame tv go into art mode while listening or are you strictly looking at the album art through preferred streaming service? Wondering how to stream music through the system and just see art on the wall?
The art mode only shows when the tv is in standby mode sadly
Spotify run from the Amazon 4k fire Stick on my LG TV plays gapless playback. However the Spotify app on the LG TV didn't play gapless playback. very odd but very true. The sound quality is different also, even though both were connected to my amp via Toslink into my Chord 2qute DAC. I'm really enjoying your exploration of streaming music through a TV, because this is what I want to explore more of. I feel I could do better than my existing set up. My main questions are do Tidal and Amazon music apps both play gapless playback and CD quality sound?
Did you try PCM pass through setting on Samsung TV via HDMI eARC connection? I haven’t checked if it still up/down samples to 48kHz. Worth checking out. I’m using Bluesound node 2021 as a streamer DAC. So I couldn’t see the bit rate.
THANKS JOHN FOR SHARING THIS…AND HAPPY 🤗 YOU ARE GETTING YOUR GAPLESS PLAYBACK AND 🖼 ARTWORK …we look 👀 forward to your next video and out takes 👍😍😍😍
Was looking forward to this video.
This is HUGE for a full build out in Roon ! I'm with ya John this is Great ! John is the only one who puts on his future + better glasses with regard to Artists & their craft.... helping audiences feel more connected... I mean BRILLIANT!!
It is possible to connect the chromecast with google tv directly to a dac via a usb c dongle, the chromecast has a sample rate of 96 KHz. So that's one way of getting higher quality audio. Just letting You know. 😅
If you have an NAD M10v2 or NAD M33 connected to the TV,just switch to the hdmi channel where the NAD its connected and the TV would show the album and so on playing trough blueos.
Hi! I’m from France. Really curious to see what you are going to say about the keff ls60!!!
I really really like your work and your Chanel.
Thank you to share your love of music and high-tech.
well it is resampling at 48khz but it is 24 bit 48khz so this is hi-res already… people often forgen that it is 24 bit and not 16 bit… a 44.1khz at 24 bit is already considered as hi-res… Apple tv4k is delivering a 24bit 48khz output
I've had Apple TV, for years, and didn't realise Tv remote app existed. Once you get your head round what the IP address is and to port Number is. Works a charm
Thanks so much for this video. I am a long time Roon user that occasionally used an Apple TV as and endpoint but was never really happy with that due to the lack of control and track information. I was excited to learn about the TV:Remote app and immediately purchased it and is a far better experience which I will now use more often playing over my multi-channel system when not running my main two channel system.
I like your reviews and channel. The focus on solving common problems stemming from the fast-changing digital audio space is great.
John, SMPTE specs are 48/16 or 48/24. So a television manufacturer is doing the right thing.
John, you should try the nVidia Shield TV. It is not expensive, plays up to 192 KHz and even does video upscale.
Nice… didn’t know Samsung had a Tidal app or that it could run on my QN 90 TV, thxs! Danke
I am stepping away from my old home cinema receiver to stereo system in steps, with most of our music being streamed from tidal. Initially streaming was done through our Frame tv.
Step one was the speakers (got kef R3s). Negotiating the price I got opportunity to get simple streaming box (arylic based TWA-10B) below original ask price. So streaming is sorted at entry level.
I want the system to be headphone friendly (using my LCD-X extensively in the evenings) and possibly simple.
Final step will be proper streamer + amplifier.
I already tested powernode against my current amplituner+tv - no big difference unless playing mqa. Headphones got way below what I'm getting with my portable dac/amp (hip dac 2).
So now looking at various options:
1. NAD M10 V2 (still need to test)
2. UNITI ATOM (was listening to that and liked it on speakers, not really on headphones)
3. Matrix Audio element I2 + non integrated power amp (as far as I was reading DAC + HP implementation will surpass 1&2, so amp will be the key)
What would be your suggestion?
My feeling is that only option 3 is going to hit all the boxes. I prefer bit darker/warmer but still detailed presentation (favs are rock and electronic). So I am looking at hybrid PAs that will happily drive R3s :)
If Apple were to get the sample rate problem under control (it's shameful that they don't do bit correct payback after all these years), then the AppleTV would be a great streamer option. With Apple Music now having hi-res audio and Apple Music Classical on the way, it needs to happen yesterday.
I enjoy using my Apple TV for streaming as well. For critical listening I prefer to stream my local hires music files and I use streaming services primarily to discover new music or watch music videos. So not having “hires” lossless content doesn’t bother me. But for sure the ease of using the UI in combination with the large display of a TV is a desirable thing to have.
Just love the way the Roon interface to Apple TV features multiple pictures of the artists. It makes using a playlist really fun.
Hi from cold Sydney John. I’m enjoying your presentation of these streaming setups that involve visuals through the tv. I haven’t quite crossed that bridge for my own preferences /listening setup /environments. How do you currently use/ see your other streaming devices like the auralic aries? I assume you might be able to set the roon streaming to send visuals to tv and draw your audio from the aries to your dacs. I think. Where does that sit currently for you in that balance between best audio possible v visual input? Or is the aries streamer put away for the apple tv setup? Cheers.
Peter T
Hello, I use an Nvidia Shield with usb audio out directly to my DAC, this seems to avoid any resampling.
Great Video John. As always. I use a ATV 4K with a HDMI Extractor for a direct Toslink Output of the Device. The TV OS resamples also everything to 48kHz all the time but ist works fine for me.
Hi there. Been looking at ways to get album artwork on the TV while listening to Music. So if you have an Apple TV, you can use your Macbook as the source. I open tidal connect to my BlueOS Powernode or Naim Amp. Then airplay the Macbook in extended mode while app is fullscreen. This was you get fullscreen album artwork and high res audio at the same time.
Great choice in current music John…. Fontaines DC are a fantastic band, especially their latest album 👍🏻
I was skeptical about apple tv as my streaming device before but i took the plunge and bought the apple tv 4k to know if the quality was good enough. After all i can still use it as my netflix box if im not happy with the audio quality.
Its really better than spotify even if its just coming from a optical from the tv. tried it via airplay, i dont why but it seems to be better in airplay mode (ifi zen stream). Then paid for spotify app for a month to test through spotify connect, apple music is still better. Glad i bought into apple tv 4k, its my all in one streaming device for a year now.
I am just looking at the FRAME for art whilst listening to sound from my Rega/Focal pairing (fed by NODE2i).... Works :)
I recently bought a 2021 Samsung The Frame. The art feature was the primary selling point for us. Unfortunately the periphery of the screen has noticeable blotches that drive me crazy. Tried two units, and it was present in both...
😃 Mr. John Darko's big smile: AppleTV = Gapless for me! 😃
Lol.... and I was so excited to find a Apple Airport Express at my local op Shop last week and discover that I could connect it to my old Sansui AU 417 and send it wifi from my iPad Air 🥳
nice video as always!!! I think you could also make the samsung frame tv work if using android. I use a samsung tablet as a remote for roon. I`m pretty sure this tv has the smart view setting that lets you mirror the screen of your tablet to the samsung tv. That way you can still see displayed on the screen what you have on your remote on the samsung tablet, without having to fuzz around with your actual streamer settings at all. just basically plug, play and mirror. My setup includes an SOTM-SMS200 as an audio streamer, passing then to a Chord Mojo and then to a raven audio tube amp, I really like how this sounds but definitely a visual component will be greatly appreciated. I have been looking for an option like this, and I recon mirroring the remote screen if you are an android user is the simplest way to go. Would you agree?
I use Apple Music and Apple 4K TV. Listened to lots of Booka Shade. Cut the Strings … brilliant album.
7:03 In the US we do not get a Toslink output on ATV.... Apple TV 3 had one, but nothing past that. I really wish we did, because I do not use HDMI in my setup.
Hello! Did you enable lossless audio on Apple TV? It is off by default. I had to go to settling sand enable it there.
Great to see Children of the Bong and Future Loop Foundation getting some love. Two of my fave albums to play at 11 ;-)
Does anyone know what record weight John is using in this and other recent videos? I like how low profile it is. Would love to know the model.
really odd and potentially silly question (so apologies) but i was inspired by you to put plants around my speakers - it looks awesome! is there a minimal distance you would suggest having them both behind the rear port or to the sides? yours look quite snug but it may not matter regarding sound quality?
told you it was odd!!
You had me at Time & Bass 👍
Man, when you scroll through your Roon Artist View it is just scary how similar my list is to yours.
Also, fully agree that enjoying sound quality is more than just sonic fidelity. What you see and feel is indeed important as well. I'd also add where you are and who you are with play a huge role
Darko, when You release LS60 review?
We can’t wait so long 🤓
When you stream using volumio or roon, would you see the album artwork on the screen? Or is that only achieved when you use apps native to the Samsung's operating system?
Thanks for including the Frame in your hifi review.. Something to think about.. Thanks again
i'm hoping someone will help me, will i get the same audio quality using apple tv as a music streamer instead of wiim pro? i can only get one @ the moment.
ive found that volumio on a pi with a 192 capable dac still limits to 48/24 on tidal too. so, no reason for me to get an apple tv then?
You remember how strong those Cd booklets smelled? It always surprised me how strong that smell was!
Do all new Samsung's say eArc on the HDMI port or is it called HDMI 2?