LED appliance lamp teardown and modification. (with schematic)
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2024
- It's a while since I've taken a lamp apart, so here's a rather neat little appliance lamp which I converted to an LED filament style lamp for no particular reason at all.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm 
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I once lived in a modern flat that was very well insulated. I took out the energy saving light bulbs and put in some tungsten lights I had hoarded. The result was I did not need to use the gas central heating. Overall I think that was a lower carbon solution and worked well.
A friend at work had to chuckle when in the middle of working on something rather complex he brought me an antique ceramic light bulb socket and got all happy over it, cleaning it up and checking it out.
"Geeze, you work on all this crazy shit and you still go nuts over something simple like light bulbs?"
Yes. Yes I do.
It's a lamp thing, not everyone understands.
Last I checked, you can still get the ceramic light bulb sockets at Home Depot. When I put lights in my attic a few years back, that's what I used. Best I remember though, that was before the CF and LED lights became affordable, so all the bulbs I put up there were incandescent. They don't get used much, so they most of them have not burnt out. The ones who have, I've replaced with CF bulbs that have been removed from other lights have have been changed over to LEDs.
I enjoy the use of physical photos!
Was secretly hoping the rubbery filament from a couple of weeks back was going to make a reappearance as a curly wurly testtube lamp.
beat me to it :(
That would look cool.
Fourthed... cmon, Clive. :)
Would have liked to see that too... that would be awesome!
'Not health and safety rated' - your a hero!!!
I really do like the fillament lamp more. I like how it looks old-ish, yet bright. These are the videos that make me wanna try these things myself! And for all of that, I thank thee.
Could you do a comparison video between a dimmable and non-dimmable mains-powered LED Lamp? It would be interesting to see how the power-supplies differ between the two types.
Just wanted to say a quick thanks to Clive, really enjoy your videos. You got me interested in analogue electronics again and have signed up with the Open University with the idea of doing an analogue electronics course ... Just doing a couple of basic modules first.
I bought very very similar ones for my kitchen absorber. The normal 40w ones were burning like hell , and I decided to go LED. I was very surprised to find out the body was made from transparent rubber. I must say they work without issues, and you feel like you can throw them towards the wall and they won't break....
Clive must have the most well lit house on the planet.
Every time I hear "Poundland" the teen in me comes out and I chuckle!
I just noticed the capacitive dropper led lights almost always have a cover of glass or plastic. Which makes sense since there is mains voltage at the leds.
The bulbs without a cover I’m assuming uses a switch mode power supply where the transformer gives safe separation from mains voltage.
If I have understood this right this is purely do to this channel and explaining the power supplies over and over. So thank you for that.
Unfortunately some of the lamps on eBay with bare exposed LEDs are live at mains voltage. It's better to treat all eBay lamps with exposed contacts as being potentially live and not touching them while they are in use.
Good to know. Thank you.
I was working on replacing dead halogen bulbs with LEDs that fit down the small hole. I was changing them to red/ blue grow lights for the greenhouse. They have good diffusion and thick glass. Nice timing on this I like your solution better. Now I just need to find a source of those filaments.
In Poland, tungsten lamps are sold as 'special use' lamps or 'shake-proof' to avoid the same regulations :). Cheap and 'efficient' as before though ;).
Nice. I do like your DIY lamps!
bigclivedotcom It would be really interesting to see the origional pcb with rgb 5050 leds on it instead and see what the light output was like...
Almost all the bulbs in my house are still incandescent. I tried an LED bulb once. It was supposed to be warm white but it actually was a weird yellow color that made everyone who entered the room look sick.
thanks mr clive i was asking about the power factor thanks again your chanel rocks buddy !
Such a rare case when conservators truly support progress, lol.
"It doesn't matter which way it's put in."
That's what I tell my girlfriend. 😁
"It's Lit"
-Big Clive 2017
can you do a blurb on calculating current drop for these types of circuits?
I think the filament LEDs give it a nice effect. I wouldn't be surprised if you find them in Pound-land soon as decorative outdoor lights.
big c I've been watching your channel and a sub for well over a year and I enjoy all your videos and content ,I have no complaints about circles you draw I respect your intelligence ..I look forward to more of your destructive and explosive videos ...🌋✌
I liked your big C, love your site
From USA
Clive - you've shown us the cheapie power supplies for various LED lamps. Could you find an example of what a high-end price-is-no-object SMPS psu for an LED lamp would be? One that perhaps offers mains protection from high frequency reactive power and is dimmable and outputs perfectly smooth and flicker free light?
Great video.
here is a thought on PF Clive, replace the 680R resistor with an inductor of similar impedance to the cap. this should bring it up close to 1 .
@Clive. Concerning power factor, would it be an idea to show us how to reduce power factor from a bad scenario (eg. limiting capacitor only) to an acceptable/modest level in the same didactic manner you did on your video "Using LEDs as mains indicator lights on 120V and 230V (live demos)"?
How does power factor effect the power companies? Or doesn't it? If you were using a portable generator would power factor become important?
They do have to allow for it with heavier cabling and transformer equipment. With a portable generator you would only be able to run a reduced load with poor power factor.
bdot02 power factor is actually a big deal if you are a electric supplier they everything they can to keep the closest to 1 has possible. big consumers( mostly factory) get charged for power factor. And probably every one will soon be charged for it.
Alfonce Jean so then those giant capicitors sold as power saving devices will actually do something
The capacitors sold as power saving devices are a rather crude way of affecting an unknown power factor. If the power companies start charging for apparent power in the future, these devices could actually COST you money if you plugged them in.
@ bigclive Can you make a tutorial about powerfactor and co just like you have done it with your guide into electronic components? I'm looking into this subject even though I'm only 16. Non of the tutorials i have seen so far explain it well enough, so could you please make a tutorial about it?
Regulations on tungsten lamps? Never heard of that kinda wanna learn more about it
Attach the health and safety officer across the live and neutral terminals of your test block.
What are the physical dimensions of that capacitor? That's apparently the first hint for how much voltage a component can tolerate.
So how do I/we get the power factor to 1 in an led bulb.....I'm thinking of Smart meters now.
The filament version has a nice space for a smoothing capacitor.
Very interesting, as usual. A lux meter can be useful for this type of experiment :)
The 4.7 MOhm resistor would only pass ~50 µA, worst case.
I measured my mains tester screwdriver and it lets 80 µA pass through the body, so I would say from a health and safety point of view you are good, Clive.
Hi Clive, I have found your videos very interesting and educational over several years.
I thought possibly you may be interested in the circuit of the Nokero (No-Kerosene) N220 solar powered led light so I thought I'd mention it. It has helped many people in developing countries. I got one and it works well.
I have what is probably a copy in the pile of stuff for the future.
we were told to use the "ELI the ICE man" thing to remember that voltage lagged in a capacitive circuit etc etc.
never heard of power factor until I started watching these videos. Very interesting
Nice video
Just watched another one of your videos. Awesome! Question...fav 18650 bought online for cheapest price but good quality? Thanks
Perhaps solid state transformers will permit 100Hz supplies for lighting circuits (multiple supplies of different types to every user) which would permit much cheaper and less flickery LED lamps without requiring fancy DC switches/circuitbreakers
I imagine it would be possible to add a small smoothing capacitor on each of the three boards. Or does that run the risk of overstressing the capacitor in the AC side?
As mentioned in the video, the smoothing capacitor would initially start at a zero volts resulting in much more electrical stress for the ceramic capacitor due to it dropping the full mains voltage.
I love them filaments. on my variac :D
I bought a few similar, but smaller, ones for the fridge (as it's original filament bulb had popped), and they're definitely not as bright, and the flicker's annoying, and the "warm white" ones I'd got were pretty much green, which looked bad inside the fridge so I used the cool white ones, doesn't look "right", but at least it shows what's been left to ferment for too long though.. :P
You should totally teardown an LED headlight bulb, for cars 9005/H11 from nighteye or auxbeam. There seams to be one manufacturer that is later rebranded and sold under different names. The same bulb is sometimes advertised as having 9000lumen or 8000 lumen. I've always wondered what the quality of those COB led's are like, any "leaky" chips etc.
I suppose the next lesson for testing is to jam a cap directly into a mains socket to charge it up to use as a power source BigC
Not sure if this is the propper place to ask, but I am a little out of ideas of where to turn: I've been inspired to try to assemble my own filament LED lamp to get one suited to my needs (turns out it is hard to find one that fits), but the final question I fail to find an answer for otherwise, is how to attempt to make it dimmable? -I see a lot of filament bulbs online listed as "dimmable", but to my experience not all of them are. This tells me there mus be some of the initial circuit that regulates how the filament reacts to e.g. trailing edge dimmers?
So the question then is what else will i need to add to the circuit between the socket and the filament, besides the diodes, resistor and capacitor that were listed in the prior DIY filament bulb video?
Thanks in advance for any help or tips, weather as for answers, or places i can look/ask!
And also, thak you bigclivedotcom for these videos. Thery're both a great find, and a source for both inspiration and knowledge!
where did you get the "hopi" meter from?
normal domestic electric meters do not take power factor into account. so a 2.5 real watt with 0.5 power factor will register as a 5 VA (watt) load.
60 degree lag between current and voltage.
Is there a post office box for clive listed somewhere? I've got something i'd like to order to you.
Since the cover is plastic will it function in an Oven? or melt. Some of the things i bake takes 450F.. Just wondering.
Here in Czech Republic they are selling the old resistive lights as "heat bulbs", one seller even have a patent for that :D
Unless they have patented a unique process previously unknown, that patent isn't going to be enforceable outside the Czech Republic. Manufacturers have been using incandescent bulbs for the purpose of high-intensity heating for well over half-century.
'Heat lamps' have also been around for at least 75 years. One type was even sold for use in bathrooms from the 1950's onwards. Others have been used for keeping pets (lizards, snakes,etc) or plants warm.
Interesting fact, Clive! In Poland, people still produce Tungsten bulbs and sell them as 'heating devices' to skip regulations!
okay ill bin them....i saw them in poundland weeks ago and bought some for my bedside lamp
Another way round the ban on filament bulbs is to buy "rough service" bulbs, they are non-domestic so don't come under the ban.
I wonder what your rubbery bendy led strip would look like coiled in that tube?
I was thinking of that, but it would never fit in.
thats what she said.....
im sorry, but i was thinking the same tis a shame that it wont fit
I do like the LED filament lamps but they are quite expensive
Cheers Clive
+matthew Beddow They're getting cheaper over time. I bet they appear in Poundland soon.
Yer that would not surprise me
Cheers
That capacitor looks mighty small for a 470n of acceptable voltage rating.
Also, I guess the series resistor is quite high to control worst case peak current to the LEDs, with no smoothing
I see you've padded you caliper case to stop the on button hitting the lid too.
The digital vernier callipers... from Poundland too, Mr Mitchell ??
I'm not sure I'd trust calipers from Poundland. They came from an electronics distributor.
every time i see the HOPI meter I think of the readout thing inside the Delorean in Back to the Future
How about soldering a high-value SMD cap across the rectifier output, and see how that affects things? Would the higher than design voltage across the current limiting ceramic cap cause it to pop a la Photonicinduction!! :-) Tantalum would give the capacitance needed but the voltage means MLCC unfortunately!
How well do you think these would work in the fridge?
+Loren Husky LED lamps are ideal for fridges.
Clive where can I purchase one of those Hopi meters?
I got mine on eBay a while ago.
Hi Clive i bought some of these lamps for my cooker hood but the hood uses soft switching so they ether come on and glow by themselves or wont switch off fully.
Is there a way of modifying them to turn fully off when switched off.
Thanks AL.
If they're not an excessive nuisance then you could just leave them glowing as a handy kitchen night light. The only difference between the old tungsten ones and the new LED ones is that the LED lamps are so sensitive that they make that slight leakage current (probably through filter/snubber components) visible.
Hi thanks for that ,I'm not bothered but the misses does not like the glow from the kitchen lol.
Clive, I'm probably being naive but are these SD capacitors rated as X types for mains? I guess they just blow open circuit when they fail.Thanks for another great video.
your remark on Health and Safety made me wonder if there is a whole youtube community on the topic with videos of people stopping the work, unboxing safety glasses, cutting the cord on grinders having a latching switch and discussing how to generally annoy people.
There is. Mainly asshats making "safety" videos that indicate they have no experience of working in the areas they claim to be experts in.
I hope they go view AVE's channel ;o)
+1 for 'asshats'
Common sense is being 'phased out' in favour of ridiculous and unnecessary health & safety laws. Darwinism is no more and the human gene pool is suffering as a result. In a few more generations we will be nothing more than a species of mindless drones incapable of processing thoughts unless given basic instructions from the hierarchy. The zombie apocalypse is coming!
I went to a restaurant with some friends last night. The waitress informed us that the crème brûlée was off the menu due to health and safety issues from head office about the blowtorch used to melt the sugar. And that's in a kitchen with flame grills and many sharp knives.
Clive how is power factor effected by hertz? I see in the UK you run 50 hertz but in north america we run 60 Hz would the power factor increase or decrease if we just plugged that UK version of a lamp into out power.
It would be the same.
it would be about the same, the difference in frequency is not significant .
Putting diodes in parallel without any resistance on each leg seems like a bad idea, doesn't it? I've run into bright lamps that did that, and I had 2 out of 2 fail in very similar ways, taking out many LEDs at once.
How does this lamp hold up in the heat of an oven?
It would work in a cooker hood, but definitely not in an oven unless well shielded in the lamp compartment of a microwave oven. Even then I'm not sure how any internal RF leakage could affect it.
Hi Clive, Have you ever researched a electronic caliper (how it works, measureing principle)?
I believe it's a pattern of fine conductive stripes that act like a pulsing capacitor with movement.
@@bigclivedotcom Hi Clive, Thanks for the response. I think you are correct. But the question remains. How are the pulses made? A couple of years ago i tried to unraffle the mistery. But i did not successen. BTW Nowhere on the internet i could find an explanation. I think to remember that the spacing between the (capacitor?) strips/bars on the slider are slighty different from the spacing on the stationary part. If so when sliding an interference may result in the capacitor value producing the pulses. Maybe one of your followers know the answer?
I wonder what's the lowest voltage they will run at?
The long series string of LEDs means they are only really suited for a modestly high voltage.
If you want to count the LED's on the filament just point your camera at it and close the aperture or raise the frame rate.
I think he needs some welders goggles - look proper steampunk with those on :)
Hey Clive! How are you doing :) i have a question, i filled my house with led filament lights, pretty nice lights, 1,9 watts, but there is a problem, the powerfactor, it's not that great 0.5, here in Holland all the houses are getting these "smart" electricity meters and these meters also do measure blind current (dont know the right name for it) caused by the bad powerfactor, is there a way to upscale the powerfactor in led lights? Or to compensate the total blind currency of my house?
Greets, Dimitri
It's not easy with the odd load of LEDs, but the power is low, so for the number of lamps you have it shouldn't be too significant.
They do not charge you for the power factor, do they? It is just indicated. In any case, teh low-cost dropper capacitor lights have poor power factor. There exist LED bulbs that have the mains, then a bridge rectifier, then a chip and transformer and then a capacitor. Those are power factor corrected but they are bigger and a tad more expensive.
"Deco-ray-tive" lamps? Oops! "Dec-ruh-tiv". Loved that millisecond self-correction! Keep up the good work. (Yes, I know I am tiresomely annoying. It's my Asperger's - no joke). And of course, no offence intended. If I can raise a chuckle with my moronic comments, then I am spurred and encouraged groanwards. All the best. xxx
The funny thing about the regulations of those older tungsten lamps is that when they were discussing about it they said that the problem is that the lights produce a lot of heat. And here we people in north were laughing like what does it matter. Most houses are heated with electricity anyways so does it matter how I produce the heat. Heat is heat :D I guess it's more problematic in warm parts of the world tho...
It is a bit silly here in the UK where the heat is generally required anyway.
bigclivedotcom Well I live in Finland so yea... But I guess it's major problem in Spain and so on.
Why do you have 244 volts? I get 219 out the outlet.
Does the grid supply 250 volts to houses and it is just the voltage drop in cables which produces the average of 220/230v?
+L3 P3 The standard UK supply is typically 240v but is gradually being harmonised with Europe at 230v. At the moment the standard allows a range either side of 220v to 240v to cover all the different European voltages.
I suspect the north is more likely to be 240v and the cities, especially London, more likely to be 230v...
Clive mate, how about a video about how to go about fixing a bad power factor?.. I remember doing it at collage but honestly have no clue anymore (20+ years later).
It's harder now. Back then we just had to worry about motors and other fairly uniform loads. Now the waveforms are all over the place with noise and harmonics.
What is the best colour temperature for a led tube light to be used as a reading light?
Ideal depends on the individual, and the room its' used in, and so on (a design aspect too).
Don't forget about Colour Rendering (CRI), modulation, contrasts...
Some prefer lower and higher CCT's, but in any case being able to set a sensible brightness suitable for the individual matters, as does avoiding flicker/modulation that can cause many people headaches / loss of concentration reading, etc...
Rounak Roy If you mean for before bed reading i'd go for a warm light (1800K - 2700K). If it's for studying or reading that requires concentration, a cold light is better (4000K ->).
FindValdo yup, for studying. A 6500k would be better?
Rounak Roy I have a 7000K desk light which for me is a little too much. So i think 6500K is my sweet spot. You have to try out for yourself but get one that doesn't flicker visibly. That will cause a headache in minutes while reading.
Cool lights contributes to alertness, but also headaches. Find a good balance. I like 4000-5000k(natural white).
Now you bags of space in there, why not pop a nice electrolytic on the stand off leads going to the filament LEDs?
As a bonus you may get to see the dropper capacitor undergo Rapid Unplanned Disassembly.
This must flicker like crazy!
does the power utility charge a surcharge based on the power factor. I just checked the local utility charges a 80% surcharge for a pf less than 50%. Although, lights are the least part of the utility bill.
The home meters usually just charge for actual power here and not apparent power.
Not in a domestic setting (the usual domestic meters only measure "real" power). But for large consumers they charge for it.
Yes, however the utility gets a real hard-on (I have heard) if they discover a high pf in a customers facility.
Jim MacLaughlin industrial customers in the UK are charged for apparent power, domestic customers for true power. I'd like to see Clive do a video on this. In recent years the domestic household has so many more devices with a reactive component than we used to have. Are we loading the utility companies without being charged for it?
The power hungry devices in a home environment are still mostly heaters. Devices that aren't, but use more the 75W (I think) need to have power factor correction built in.
You know, in the filament lamp there is now room to add that smoothing capacitor you wanted. Then it really would look better than the 50-50 originals.
One from column A and two from column B? With six you get eggroll?
Clive: I enjoy your channel and I always learn something new but occasionally I wonder to myself "How does this guy not get bored of doing vids on lights, lights, lights, USB PS, Batteries, and more lights?"
It's an engineering thing. There's more to light than meets the eye!
21 5050 led chips is 63 leds is it not? Or am I missing something...
45 instead of 48 LEDs total?
Why is the quick-disconnect box plugged into the HOPI via an adapter? Another video appeared to show that a UK plug would plug into the HOPI directly, judging by its socket-terminal-holes layout.
HOPI has some terminals for poking bare wire in, and they get in the way of larger plugs. So needs a standoff.
Mark Severs he already explained it. the hopy got big wire conections that are in the way of those oversized UK plug ( seriously what the deal with those big ass plugs?)
The plugs are big because (1) externally, they have chunky brass pins to carry 13A without getting hot, spaced far apart because it was designed for RMS voltages that might easily be around 250V, and because (2) internally, there is a compulsory fuse and chunky terminals to accommodate thick wire (see (1) )
He mentioned in a previous video that it is because the 'loudspeaker-style' connectors under the socket interfere with the cable on the plugs, making it impossible to plug them in properly without the death-dapter in between
As a person in the USA, UK plugs are not oversized considering they all have a proper HRC fuse in them.
Is it possible for these to be converted to run on USB power banks?
No. But you can get bright 5V USB powered lamps.
What is the device you are using to measure the consumption of the light?
+dztrbdgod Hopi power analyser.
Thanks mate.
Clive, where did you get yours? They are notoriously hard to find here in America IMHO.
I've done a search and can't find it listed.
What happened to other stuff Michał sent you for teardown a few weeks ago?
I'm going to fit it in over time so there aren't too many similar items close together.
Can't they make an electrolytic capacitor in an SMD package for applications like this? Since most components today can be apparently miniaturized.
Weatherman1024 - they do; it's a small round electrolytic in a plastic case and terminals that come out to tabs.
Pictures: www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-SMD/Images/_/N-75hqx
I guess that there is no reason they could not solder surface mounted capasitors between the LEDs in the three bar setup. There is no room in the base but plenty of space inside the bulb.
At least the power company would rather you have a leading (capacitive) power factor, rather than a lagging one (inductive) as the lagging one demags their generators and they have to supply more rotor current.
4:00 How the heck do they manufacture these on a mass scale ??? and then also sell them so cheap? I know Chinese wages are non-existent but still...
He said that the incandescent lamp making businesses have been destroyed by the conservationists. Here in the States, Southern California Edison has avoided having to build a number of power plants by giving to customers steep discounts to convert to LED lights. In the Los Angeles metro areas the smog has bee n reduced by this avoidance of increases in power generation. Conservationists had little to nothing to do with smog control, and the same is happening in Chinese cities where thousands of people die each year from stifling smog.
Does the product need a CE rating or kite mark to be legal to plug into a mains supply in the UK?
.. by 'rating', of course, the question of actual rating vs a sticker that some cowboy has slapped on there... no way for you to know either way, of course.
edit: of course!
Great if they were smaller and brighter, an RGB one would look great in a Microwave lol replace the incandescent in there
17 health and safety officers?
Maybe they are the same people who decided to label a tin of pilchards with the words, 'Warning! Contains *fish*.'