The Primordials Horrific Secret - Lore and Theory
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- In this episode: What was the answer that the Primordial gave to Ancient Humanity which was so horrific many of them committed suicide after learning it? Today we explore a theory which fits eerily well with the lore and could completely overturn our preconceived notions of the true reality of the Precursors.
Thanks to;
Original Theory: NonesensicalRants
Unbending Filaments Artwork: Julian Faylona
www.deviantart...
Primordial Artwork: Rythase
Sources;
Halo Warfleet
Halo Encyclopedia
Halo Cryptum
Halo Silentium
Halo Primordium
Halopedia
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Thank you SIR!
No. Thank you good sir.
@@Installation00
You really did make changes and adapt my theory into something a bit more palatable. Made the precursors seem much less apathetic and amoral, and more driven by a belief or mission that can be respected and appreciated, even if it's bad for us.
I both like and dislike it in some way, but like it in more ways than I don't.
Hope you also take my theory on combating the flood and make that into a video.
@@nonsensicalrants1703 Pretty neat theory. One question in context of this theory though, why did the flood choose to stop attacking ancient humanity?
@@steinerxyz To give the Forerunners a false sense of security that Ancient Humanity found a cure for the Flood infection.
@@steinerxyz
I should preface what I'm about to say, hell, everything I ever say with this disclaimer.
I'm not a Halo lore buff. Haven't read the books. Haven't played any of the games outside of the original trilogy and reach.
But from what I understand the flood retreated for the following reasons.
1) to truck both humans into believing they had found a cure when they didn't and the forerunners into believing they weren't a great enough threat to legitimize ancient humanity's seeming agreasion in fleeing into their terrotiory.
2) To get the forerunners and humans to destroy each other while they lay in wait to destroy the Victor.
3) The human cure actually worked to an extent.🤷♂️
This is an intensely dark interpretation of Carl Sagan's quote that "we are a way for the Universe to know itself."
Oh frick!!! 😳
@@thebiggusdonnus8453 Man, that sounds really cool and freaky to think about.
and right there...what you said....that is exactly where i believe all this is based on....i totally agree with what you said....
Yeah... a cosmic horror interpretation lol
I was thinking of the same quote during this video.
This is honestly one of my favourite theories. The dust never corrupted; it's functioning exactly as it was intended to. The point of the dust was to bring the precursors back, but they never specified HOW.
With the dust coming back... I always understood it that either the dust was corrupted from the Precursor's bitterness in that their creation destroyed their creators or that the dust was corrupted after the humans genetically messed with it to give it to their pets. This was the first time I've heard that the Precursor's voluntarily allowed themselves to be destroyed by the Forerunner's. I wonder which description is true to lore.
They sent only one to rip and tear until its done
I think that he said that those consumed by the Flood are forever bound to the parasite and tortured like Captain Keys was, like in a literal version of Dante's Inferno and that humans would be all consumed by it eventually, hence why some people chosed to commit suicide, so they wouldnt be infected.
This theory holds water, when the forerunners composed infected beings and then returned to the physical plain they were still infected with the flood. So basically once infected always infected.
This begs the question then...when Chief destroyed Captain Keyes' body by punching through his head retrieving his neural chip...did that "kill" Captain Keyes ending his consciousness and his suffering...or does Captain Keyes' consciousness still "live on" so to speak, as a part of the Flood gestalt hive mind? Thats a horrifying though, Keyes could still be suffering years after his body was destroyed.
@@Edithae In theory, Captain Keys counsciness is still infected by the Flood since The Flood is conected to The Precursors Neural Physics.
@@Edithae his experiences up to that point are ended by him being punched to death by chief , if left there in that state. His mind / “body” still in tact being physically & mentally tortured by the flood ( like continually juicing keyes for experience/sweetness ) which is living hell.
I’m not sure if the flood can consume experience thru dead tissue or needs a fresh brain stem, but assume it needs you alive / brain matter in tact to tap your consciousness:
Then when it absorbs you it can take a screen shot of your mind at that point then divert your biomass ,
But if it chooses, it can just physically add you without killing you like they did Keyes and the prophet when he was made into a tendril during the meeting with chief / arbiter
TLTR : chief mercy killed Keyes and severed the mind assault / body disfigurement
Once the flood infect the mind it cannot be recycled thru forerunner tech, which would explain why the forerunners commit
Suicide but then asks how does consciousness end at death ? Do you break the cycle if not consumed and if so what happens to those who die without being consumed?
Like the Gravemind states, The Flood is like water with “ebbs and flows”, if they planned to become the Living Universe of their ideology, they sustain the system while propping up races that can reset the balance, prolonging a cycle of experience and consumption. The Forerunners were able to cleanse the galaxy, but, likely with the Precursors this too is part of the cycle. Pruning and being pruned to enrich the experience further.
This concept opens up some interesting avenues of consideration about why the God of the Bible allows suffering, the Devil to exist, etc.
The universe, according to this theory, allows all these horrific things to happen all to enrich itself (which is kind of circular and cosmic nihilism on a grand scale, it would seem to me).
For God the cycle goes on for a transcental purpose as well that mortals can't fully wrap their heads around. But the God of the Bible allows such things for inherently pure and righteous motives, albeit ones that are beyond the scope of mortal man to fully comprehend, in stark contrast to the universe itself coming across as a bit of villian as far as literally any given race of beings is concerned.
How do you even win against that?
@@mariastevens6406 You don't. And that's the reality the humans listening to the primordial were faced with.
Learning that the Primordial species are essentially the embodiment of Non Duality and oneness with the universe makes me appreciate halo on an infinitely deeper level, Primordials realize that they are infinite so to them, They know no difference between the flood and themselves, just sweetness and unity
makes you appreciate HALO on an INFINITEly deeper level?
@@basedstreamingatcozy-dot-t7126 Groyper.
@@magnumdog5464 o7, King
@@basedstreamingatcozy-dot-t7126 Thanks fren.
This theory bears an uncanny resemblance to the cycle of destruction the Reapers impose on the Mass Effect universe's Milky Way. However, if this theory holds up, then the Living Universe and the Precursors are an altogether more powerful and horrifying threat, and they cannot be reasoned with. The Reapers had, in a very twisted sort of way, an altruistic cause for their actions. Their philosophy was ironically more akin to the Forerunners' interpretation of the Mantle of Responsibility, just taken to an extreme. But the Living Universe has a much simpler and more uncompromising motive: "You will be food. _Nothing_ more."
Bruh.
Yes yo
I was also thinking about the barrier to higher existence in the Dead Space universe.
They're saying the precursors created all life in the universe the real question is if they are that powerful theres no way of wiping out the flood/precursor being how much knowledge they possess over billions of years beyond our comprehension and they cycle is just one of many that have occurred and there's no way out but a cycle of war and evolution keeps repeating itself any scenario possible we've witnessed two the Ancient Humans then they got wiped out and now the Spartans which was after the halo was fired and humans repopulated on earth "you will be flood nothing more" meaning all life in the universe one this come from the flood being able to tap into your consciousness halo 3 Master chief and the arbiter if u play co op this I thinks confirms that and Master chiefs vitals came up negative when the flood tapped in the reason why he can move is because how mjolnir works look up hiddenxperia, "how master chief did die in halo 3 "
Halo came out first doh. But your right. The long dead Protheans in ME are like the long dead Forerunners in Halo.
This is probably the most disturbing, deepest, darkest halo lore ever
Its like gravemind on halo 3: ,,Resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved... but you imposed." So that the flood will try to inflict pain and suffering on the galaxy and the universe, and then they are defeated and universe has peace, and the circle goes like this... just like precursors wanted and what they believed in...
@Canuk Kun heard its getting a sequel
if i may add to that, defeat is a 'sentence' or punishment to the gravemind because the flood cannot consume more experience/people. given the universe/precursors/flood treat any and all living beings' experience as 'sweetness', defeating the flood would mean denying your friendly neighbourhood cosmic horror the ice cream it made
@Canuk Kun cool surprised though
@@thomas.02 that made me chuckle a bit
I think I realized my favorite part of Halo 3. During the level “Cortana,” while you progress through the level, the Gravemind talks to you, trying to convince you to give up and allow yourself to be consumed by the Flood. First, it speaks calmly, speaking to you like an elder speaks to a unruly child, then, it slowly becomes more and more angry. Eventually, it’s thundering voice thunders in your ears, begging you to just quit and save everybody the trouble of trying to kill you. Chief is so incredible he can piss of the collective consciousness of trillions and the greatest creatures capable of manipulating the very fabrics of the universe.
Gravemind is omnipotent because of what he is, so it is impossible to piss him off. However, the Chief managed it as he had found a way to out maneuver Gravemind's foresight, and it continued up until Chief activated Halo forcing Gravemind to admit a temporary defeat. Master Chief literally kicked the Universe's ass.
Well, if that consciousness is so amoral as to allow civilizations to grow and thirve only to devour them in the most horrific and painful way possible to slake it's insatiable lust for the "experience", I would totally expect it to throw temper tantrums when it doesn't get its way.
I've always wondered what would be so intense to hear that people would choose to end their life just by hearing it. If I heard this answer for the theory as one of those ancient humans, I think I would too.
I mean if you learned God created you literally just to consume your conscience and murder all the people you've ever held dear and loved in brutal and sadistic fashion, fuck em I'll shoot myself. You ain't getting my memories.
The humans would literally be part of the living universe too. Part of itself raging against itself or pretending not to be it at all while masquerading as members of a species is equally idiotic in a way. Part of itself desiring to die or kill another part and brought to death or birth, raging against the existence of destruction of life to the extent that they'd throw away the creation of life utterly with it is not ok.
This adds a whole new dimension to humanity being chosen for the mantle. We weren't chosen because we're the best for the job of looking after the galaxy, but perhaps we are such emotional, dramatic, monkey brained, war like creatures that we would create the tastiest experiences for the precursors to consume. We're chosen because we are the tastiest, not the most qualified for the job. Like a farmer choosing the best cattle to feed and eventually butcher. The forerunners relatively emotionless outtake makes them perhaps better caretakers, but less tasty to the flood.
What an uncomfortable thing to think about. Humans thinking we've been chosen for something special, then it turns out we're chosen because we taste better than everyone else. Gives me the chills.
I really enjoyed this video. And definitely agree with some of the bigger picture ideas. Reminds me of some ideas Bungie explored in Marathon back in the day. Good job.
Someone needs to remake the marathon games
@@Andy_Enderson It might happen some day. Marathon Infinity was referenced in a filing with the copy right office last year. I think the demand for a new one will increase soon.
@@Ghostvirus one can hope but I can't help but to wonder who filed for the copyright
@@Andy_Enderson It was referenced in relation to Bungie.
@@Ghostvirus hmm...maybe an attempt at a return to form for bungie? I'll remain cautiously optimistic for the time being.
If the idea that the precursors/flood are just tiny, tiny parts of the living universe is correct, then that would mean the universe would be malevolent. It would have a net loss on “sweetness” once everything goes extinct in one giant massive war. That would imply that it wanted a massive surge of the sweetness at once even though having a constant war like galaxy would have more total sweetness. This would also imply that the universe is extremely patient and would wait many millions of years for another flood of sweetness. No pun intended. Although, that would be assuming that the rest of the universe isn’t being farmed for it.
My personal opinion is that the universe overall doesn’t care, so that’s why the precursors didn’t go against the natural order of survival of the fittest. I still think that the flood is corrupt version of the precursors, they are just going after the momentary great amount of sweetness instead of the maintainable slow income. Basically the flood are junkies while precursors do it in moderation.
Nah bruh precursors be sayin they can stop whenever they want😂
Universe/Flood: Ey mannnn you got any crack??? I'll take your whole stock, mannn
there are lots of galaxys
ours is but one in uncountable numbers
even if each galaxy took a billion years to get ready each time the universe would at all times have trillions of galaxys being harvested
Last Time I was this early, The Mantle hadn't been passed down at all
So the real question raised is:
Who or What did The Precursors/Flood assimilate before arriving in the milky way Billions of years ago?
I almost done a ancient human listening to this yo.
Those Gat Damn liars. Free Didact.
They existed before the whole universe
I would love it if you did a episode on the Huragok(engineer).
Wouldn't the universe knowing and remembering you even when the stars all go out be sort of beautiful in a way? It's an opposition of meaninglessness rather than the imposition of it. It wouldn't be better to be simple rotting signals in a meat carcass but sort of divine and noticed by something that may take who you are and the way you live your life into account when deciding what should come after; your life as lived no natter how great or small having a precious influence on the fabric you're a part of.
So Mass Effect is just a parallel universe of Halo where the Precursors sought created machines to further expand their 'sweetness' and allowed themselves to be subsumed knowing their true purpose would remain within the first Reaper. Harbinger the Infinite.
No
The themes may be similar, but te writing and universes are very different. We should see both for what they are, stories with themes that crossover, both are totally unrelated to each other.
Throughout history there's always been higher beings, monsters, or evil gods that consume in a lot of mythologies and good stories. It's interesting that Hal is now doing it.
The Mantle is basically finding someone to take of your psychotic parrot before you die that won't be driven insane by it.
Oh man this actually freaks me out a bit sitting here in my dark room by myself. This is such a good video never would I have though of the flood like that.
6:23
Late Night Gaming: "We're being driven to extinction, this is like interesting."
I remember that clip from like 2 years ago, I wish they did more of those lore videos now that Infinite is coming out next year.
The intro sequence Looks Amazing! I love seeing viser boot up.
"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" would have been a good message for the ancient humans.
Not sure if this was the original intended explanation of the Halo universe creators, but it should be. Beautifully horrific. "The goal of all life is death" a line taken from another intellectual property, possibly out of intended context. Or maybe not.
God damn! So my take away from this:
God = the living universe
Precursors = angels
The flood = the will of god
Humanity/forunners = subjects of god
This is the undeniable truth, this is your fate, their is no defying ogod, thers is no defying the universe.
Ive been a halo fan for most of my life and somehow im still learning more about it. I love thos franchise so much ❤
This has to be one of the best videos on youtube
so basically master chief is fighting the universe and friggin winning
Raising food for thought, knowledge and sweetness vs becoming the Flood in punishment. Awesome idea!
If you read the forerunner saga books you can assume the flood and the precursors are one in the same, it seems to be inferred in book 3.
I wonder if by some chance... The answers about the flood were that the flood inhabited the majority of unknown space, and were so difficult a foe, or disease that even the precursors who were forced to flee into unknown space could not stand against them. After all the Primordial was original a precursor, flood hybrid...
I momentarily dropped my phone on this, then realized that it’s the Reapers with an extra step.
"You will be FOOD, nothing more" - Gravemind
That's exactly I was wondering what if the precursors aren't corrupted at all... Floods are the precursors.
So basically the precursors made life let it advance and came back to kill it all and absorb it like a drug to get high off of and then restarts the cycle? Jesus halo continues to impress me
Then there's the Tyranids, they just absorbed everything just because. No bargaining, just unstoppable force
I love this theory. It makes so much sense and ties a lot of elements together. The concept is interesting and alittle out there. I can’t help but feel gripped from these ideas. The main issue I have with doubting this as truth though would be, why would the precursors make us reclaimers then? If their goal now is to assimilate life to experience it for the living universe, why make make the humans reclaimers of the mantle? It seems pointless if they are to complete their cycle ultimately.
It's a nice theory don't get me wrong but I think there's some holes.
1) the forerunners had seen the precursors before they left so they can't be the same or the forerunners would have known during the floods first advance.
2) the game would have had to of lied to us, it gives us the information on the precursors dust becoming corrupted. If it was just the normal precursors why tell us they mutated in the first place?
Wait till mass-farmed animals realise why we cultivate them. They're in for a lovecraftian horror-show all their own.
But the Two Survivors, the two dying Precursors who spoke to the Exiled Conscientious Objector Forerunners (and whose words their Descendants still accurately remembered), there were Two Factions among the Precursors: those who reveled in darkness and Depravity like the Primordial, and those who Nurtured Civilizations. The Librarian and Iso-Didact were supposed to have discovered that the Primordial was imprisoned by Other Precursors for its Extreme Beliefs (or something like that). The Flood was also known for its Narcissistic Arrogance, and for claiming things that it could Not be. No group of Beings that had reached Enlightenment on the level of the Precursors would be capable of believing such Depravity as the Flood on a Species-wide Scale. It is also possible that the Precursors were in the middle of (or recovering from) a Civil War of their own. The "Powdered" Precursors (and by extension the Flood) are most likely either a Test or some Madness from the Primordial's Past. It is also possibly some vile experiment made from Precursor Tissue (perhaps the Primordial's), or worse, the Primordial experimenting on its fellows (who may or may not have been Willing participants). These ideas are based on the fact that there are only two likely reasons for the Primordial to have been locked in its chamber in the way it was: it was trapped in the Capsule and was driven insane due to this, or it was trapped there on purpose due to it already being Insane/Evil.
You know, you kind of made the flood sound like the reapers almost from mass effect
So the Flood are just essentially the Reapers from Mass Effect, just not robotic. Wow. Honestly pretty amazing
This theory probably explains why Cortana suddenly switched and became evil, especially if the Domain disclosed this to her. Imagine finding out as an AI created to protect and serve life, that all life you swore to protect is just food for a cosmic consciousness, that would convict you in an protect them no matter what. It also explains why she assumed the Mantle of Responsibility just as the Forerunners did upon finding out about the Precursor's true purpose... That Imperial Peace. Why she was so upset doing everything but felt she had to do it - and if she shared this information it would probably break humanity. Sort of like Thanos in a sense except more logical. If this is what 343 was going for, then Halo 5 isn't as bad of a game in its story as we once thought (though 5 would still be bad, just not AS bad), it would redeem a lot of these issues. However, so far it has been very poorly executed, because there has been virtually no build up to this from 343 for the average player and you should not have to be a book erudite to appreciate these overarching story beats. This only shows a big missed opportunity, I hope 343 turns things around and actually use their own source material. What do you think @installation00
am I the only one who saw this and thought of BSG all of this has happed before and all of this will happen again
Nah. I actually like the idea that the Forerunners killed the Precursors because they thought they were entitled to the Mantle because of their physicality and technological advancements but the Precursors saw that they were too arrogant to be given the Responsibility and so chose Humanity to bear it instead. I like the poetry that the Forerunner's reaction to this choice was to show the very flaw that caused the Precursors (essentially their GODS) to deny them. And that the very same flaw would culminate in their total destruction with the firing of the Halo Array. This story (in my opinion) should be a lesson for the new Humanity to not fall into arrogance and complacency as the Forerunners did and when the final battle against the Flood takes place, defeating it will prove us worthy of The Mantle of Responsibility.
the primordials and forerunners ideals and experiences actually sounds alot like the ideals that forwarded the Naruto series peace through shared pain and understanding vs a enforced peace. which is better , is the peace through shared experiences better and more long lasting vs can a stern controlling hand give better results to peace. and the same concept actually can be seen in real life if one is to look closely, its an amazing discussion to see take place and even see the results through the halo universe. thank you for making this.
Gotta be honest didn't know anyone else shared this particular theory
I personally think the precursors saw an opportunity to give the universe sweetneses when they were killed and the survivors turned themselves into dust. I think the dust and suspended animation was supposed to be corrupted and mutated. Meaning the precursors intended to be the flood and make them into one. With the humans being tested for the mantle and becoming the precursors replacement as originally intended. And if they'd fail they'd be absorbed by the flood and fed to the universe. The precursors get everything they wanted. The flood gives the universe the sweetneses it wants, the humans get their test for the mantel, and thr forerunners are lead to extinction
My theory is that this living universe has existed since the dawn of time. Even before humans and forunners were a thing. Humans and forunners are just one of many empires and lifes that were created by the universe. The lore of Halo is just a small drop in a bucket to the universe. The universe has most likely already created, consumed, and experienced countless existences in COUNTLESS GALAXIES. Just like the existences before it, the humans and whatever other races and life that exist in the current universe of Halo, will eventually be completely consumed by the flood and the flood will reach out further to other galaxies outside of ours, to consume more, if that isn't already happening.
I think the universe just materializes into precursors and creates galaxies and more life nonstop, expanding the universe more and more. It's constantly having experiences to farm. The milky way galaxy is probably one of the lucky galaxies, because the forunners built the halo rings to essentially slow down the spread of the flood. But it's no concern to the universe because eventually the flood will win and entirely consume the galaxy. Just a matter of time, and time is nothing to the universe
Wouldn't be surprised if there's galaxies 50k lightyears from ours that eventually fell to the flood billions of years ago, and maybe were not so lucky as we were, by having galaxy nuking weapons. And are just out there...dead.
So this kinda puts them in the same category as the Reapers from Mass Effect. Both firstly let sentient life thrive then harvest them to serve a bigger purpose.
feels like a documentary
I miss games where you just jump on mushrooms kick the occasional turtle, jump over the bowersr and save peach. No lore no thinking jump kick jump win.
Fuck, this theory fucks with how I see the whole Halo series now. I see why the ancient humans killed themselves.
This might tie into why the Flood suddenly stopped attacking ancient Humanity as well. We were directly chosen as worthy of the Mantle by the Precursors, which means we back then understood the Mantle's philosophy just as the Precursors did and thus were likely on the path to become trans-sentient ourselves. After all, why assimilate something that would join you as a manifestation of the living universe of its own volition given time?
Modern humans are attacked by the Flood now as we lost that understanding when the Forerunners reverted us to the stone age. If humanity came to understand the truth of the Mantle again, I wouldn't be surprised if that understanding 'cured' us of the Flood.
"Kurzgesagt - The Egg".
For everybody having a hard time sleeping after processing this info 💪
Stay woke.
So what you’re saying is that the Precursors’ theme song is Jimmy Eat World’s “Sweetness”?
This is basically Mass Effect but the Halo Version of the Reapers.
holy shit the premise of a series of short stories I wrote is extremely similar. In that one the only civilisation that existed seeded all other life and guided its evolution to the point genetically similar species emerged, which were then periodically harvested, giving the parent/hunter civ access to their memories and those of their ancestors. Had to come up with a reason for a hyperadvanced civ to routinely commit genocide on a planetary level and feel justified despite otherwise being close to humans in neurology.
So, this makes a lot of sense within the lore. My only question is: why would the precursors want ancient humans to take the mantle of responsibility if the end goal was for all sentient life to be consumed anyway? I feel like one or all of the precursor/flood forms is lying in some way or another. There are too many puzzle pieces missing. I will say though if a trans-sentient being existed, death and destruction of entire species would be wholly irrelevant to it. We would be to them like bacteria are to us. What meaning does death have if you exist omnipresently and immortally? From the Precursors' perspective, all life in the universe is a manifestation of the precursors. There is no individuality. Everything is connected. Oh, man, I'm just getting started.
In the end, if the flood is a manifestation of the living universe, then it is an organic version of what the halo array is for the forerunners. It's just a weapon. It would make sense for the living universe to use an organic weapon. The end of that weapon is to cleanse the universe of life at the end of that life cycle. All life goes back to the universe from whence it came. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. The consciousness of all sentient life is then reintegrated into the universal whole. In a way, it's kind of beautiful if not for the whole mutilated and parasitic monster beasts eating everyone slowly from the inside. As sentient beings, we are so focused on our individuality. A trans-sentient being on the other hand (and I say being and not beings for this reason) would not perceive individuality at all. All life comes from the single living universe. It is all part of the same thing. Each individual is just a manifestation of the universe itself in physical form. We (which I use VERY loosely since this is fiction) are not cattle for the Precursors. We ARE Precursors in a different form.
The ironic thing is that in all of their resistance to the Precursors, the various sentient races don't realize that they are never going to win in the end. Each person dies and when they die, their matter and consciousness return to the living universe from whence it came. The entire conflict is based around a lack of perception of the greater reality. THE FLOOD ARE THE PROTAGONISTS!
Boy, I went down a rabbit-hole on that one...
HOLY CRAP! I JUST REALIZED THIS IS HINDUISM! The Living Universe is Brahma!
@@JGooden762 How is the living universe Barhma?
@@ogolow570 all the gods of Hinduism are expressions or extensions of Brahma just like the precursors/all life in the universe are/is an extension or manifestation of the living universe.
@@JGooden762 I see, thanks for the explanation.
What if it's the domain (the Abandon) that guides all of this and it is the will of the living universe. And now in this new cycle rather than using the flood it has corrupted Cortana and intends to use the forerunner's composers to directly assimilate the experiences of all life into the domain. What if this is why when the forerunners tried to assemble the consciousness of those composed back into living flesh it failed because the domain did not wish to give them back.
the harder humanity, the covenant or the forerunners fight the flood, the more experience rich and delicious they will be when finally consumed. the flood are inevitable.
This is very similar to the Reaper in Mass effect
I always wondered what could be such a horrific realization that would drive ancient humans to suicide, and I doubted that the Halo writers could come up with anything like it. This, however, certainly makes sense and it would probably drive me to a similar fate if I were in that universe. It reminds me of Calvinism, where God predestines most men to eternal damnation only for his need to unleash his wrath upon them. The idea was certainly very depressing, and caused me a lot of anguish in my years as a Christian that ended up with me having to get psychiatric care. I never subscribed to this line of Christianity, but the mere possibility was horrifying to me. But it opened up the door to me questioning everything about it and me leaving the faith, something I’m glad I did.
The Primordial presumably revealed the truth about the Flood to them.
The Flood's existence was an accident according to canon. The Precursors never expected the powder they became to degrade. Considering they've been through countless Big Bangs and re compressions of the universe, I'm not surprised the idea of time mattering didn't occur to them.
As the Librarian put it in Halo: Point of Light, like with all races some were evil like the Primordial, but not all were.
Well, this theory certainly paints the Forerunners in a better light that's more in line with their portrayal in the original Halo trilogy. Also, if this theory is true (which all signs currently point to it being true) then Halo has been upgraded from space horror to Lovecraftian cosmic horror.
And if the Precursors meant for humans to receive the mantle, what does that say about us?
Maybe we should um, toss the mantle to someone else, like a hot potato 👀
my thoughts exactly
@@mark-anthony113
In my original theory the mantle of responsibility is a lie told to one species of cattle so they act as shepherding dogs to the other cattle species.
@@nonsensicalrants1703 That sounds about right.
@@nonsensicalrants1703 Mind blown, Halo lore is almost too good.
These Mf's know something.
so if this theory is right, that would mean the halo rings dont starve the flood out of biomass, but of the experiences made by the living beings that are killed. the halo rings are literally a mass-boredom ray.
They're just the reset button, so that lif can be seeded once again new experiences to be had.
One wonders if the Precursors/Flood initiated the idea of the rings to early Forerunners, with the intention of making that reset button even easier and quicker, and provided they could whitewash the domain of any records, could there have been eons where the Forerunners unwittingly cycled the whole galaxy through this process to make it easier before discovering the truth?
@@Sergeant1127 This means that as long as life exists the Flood is invincible, existing in an infinite symbiotic cicle. Like the Chaos Gods in Warhammer and Darkseid in DC will always exist as long as evil and all It's negative aspects exist as well.
@@tehllama42 that's an amazing theory
@@Sergeant1127 nope. It's forrunners EMP briefcase. Purge the data in the milkyway
This is fucking awesome. I love how it makes the forerunners seem less greedy, betraying the mantal not because of they believed to be the inheritors, but because they learned of the truth and tried to save the galaxy from it
Yea, but they kinda did that in a crappy way, all too familiar to the type of political and governmental hierarchy corruption that we see today. Halo arrays vs shield worlds, builders vs other guilds of forerunners. All the rich and scheming upper political class who “care for and serve the little people and never themselves “. So yea the idea of the go forerunners was grand, but the implementations of it was self serving. Then there’s that whole being the judge jury and executioner of all of humanity, because how dare they hold a position over forerunners
@@budwhite9591 im not reading allat
@@budwhite9591 I'd say that the stakes of "protecting all of life from the universe itself" goes a long way to justifying some of the more draconian actions of the Forerunners. But that said, just like how it was mentioned in the video that the Forerunners forgot their own history over 10 million years, their society became more and more corrupt, and they restrained themselves less over that span of time. Basically, the way they went about assuming the Mantle is a separate issue from the state of their governance of life 10 million years later.
@@ronk9209 wow you can't read 4 sentences smh. How intellectual of you 💀
@@Ketchup_and_Mustard373 doesn't know what a joke is lmao
I always thought suicide was a little extreme for whatever the answer was but no I think you're right this definitely makes sense. I can't believe that I fell for the Precursors propaganda that the Forerunner were the bad guys
Let's be honest here, like W40k everything is a bad guy. Forerunners were the lesser of 2 evils.
@@isaachinds3736 The emperor did nothing wrong.
@@isaachinds3736
I agree with van. Forerunners were good guys. You're confusing good with perfect. Their extreme measures in protecting life were informed by the existence of the flood.
Absolute totalitarianism is necessary to combat the precursors. Not ideal, but we don't live in a perfect world.
Consider that perhaps, much like the Forerunner Domain in a meta sense we too, as the viewer, are being lied to by the Precursors.
That’s why cortana is upset
When you're so hard-core that you write yourself permanently into the fabric of reality.
Vex says hi!
Isaac Hinds
Lmao Bungie was sad that they couldn’t finish so they started over and got a lil shaky. At least we know triangles and vex are workin together. Maybe at the end of it all they’ll say that light and dark are the same.
Already gonna have powers of the dark soon
@@Bryanmiester Yeah, they decided that Destiny was much more 'immersive'. Even though it's so pathetic it makes Bethesda and EA look acceptable by comparison, such a letdown that so many followed the brand rather than the story of Halo
Isaac Hinds you beat me
Cin Lee destiny lore is better than halos. They perfected this idea in destiny.
brings a whole new meaning to, "The gun pointed at the head of the universe".
Huh, I guess it does. I wonder if it'd be possible to kill the living universe by just placing an near unlimited amount of halo rings across the universe?
@@evinbraley Maybe, but you’d also be destroying everything else in the process. Very much a Pyrrhic victory yeah?
@@mj91212 Unless of course, the Great Journey exists ;)
@@gdubs2 I. AM. TRUTH.
@evinbraley a bit late to this comment but I had a thought when reading your reply. You mention whether using a lot of halos could kill the universe, but what if completely wiping out the flood does just that. The way the living universe sustains itself is by feeding on the knowledge, memories and emotions accumulated by sentient life, and they feed on these things through the Flood. So if you wipe out the flood completely then are you condemning the universe itself to starvation? However long that may take, it would regardless mean the end of all existence. So with the flood your only options would be to preserve them and feed them periodically to sustain the universe and ensure that all life, current and future have a reality to exist in, but also by extension put life at risk by having the flood still exist because they will break out eventually and Won't be imprisoned forever. Or do you wipe them out completely and non figuratively start a doomsday clock for trillions of years. That would mean there's no real way to stop the flood. Sentient life loses either way. Perhaps that's the great test the precursors intends for humanity to see whether they are worthy of the mantle, find a way to have the flood and life coexist without wiping one or the other out
Neato. They're kind of like the Reapers. Sow life and then complete the cycle by devouring it and being enriched by it.
OMG u watch halo!!, btw I love ur vids
Wtf? Hahaha nice seeing you here
@@rayafk8502 Yea exactly
Oh hey it's the dude who rides motorcycles all the time
Yeah I just thought of that too, it's really similar in a way, although the Reapers are more brutal in a way, as the precursors use a slow but steady process instead
Suddenly the Covenant Empire didn’t seem so bad after all.
Not in the least 😂
No kidding lol XD
This brings up a follow up theory I just had. The forerunners were capable of genetically encoding info into a species. What if they encoded for the prophets and the elites to worship forerunner tech and to embrace the firing of the halos. So that if the flood ever comes back, they would act as a contingency to restart the universe again. When the time came, forerunners learned of humanity’s fight and sacrifice against the flood and choose not to encode this belief into the humans. They marked the humans as reclaimers so they could lead the other species in the firing, if humans choose this as the right decision. If they are willing to sacrifice a third of their population on a long shot. Then surely they are willing to fire the halo arrays.
Forerunners suddenly were the good guys
ArcticRaven 907 well I mean they did raid earth and eliminate earth 2 aka planet Reach and make constant attempts to destroy humanity.
The real reason the Forerunners were denied the Mantle: it wasn't in spite of, but *precisely because* they were more civilized and altruistic than the Humans.
I also see the flood as a type of great filter for sufficiently advanced civilizations. And well, we know that both the forerunners and ancient humanity failed....
@@Neptune2109 Ancient humanity failed because they were fighting a two front war.
@@RedLithic a 2 front war where one front absorbed their weapons, soldiers, ships, and tactics and used them all against them. Even still they were able to fight for hundreds if not thousands of years damned impressive.
You haven’t read the books have you? The Forerunners failed the Precursors and perverted mantle. The decision to give it to mankind was made millions of years before our rise to rival the forerunners. In our earliest days our people came to the conclusion that life and the Universe was in a Roll and tug. Essentially meaning that struggle was an inherent part of life and that those who couldn’t survive did not deserve to. Precursors were in line with this, whereas the Forerunners guarded all life even going to so far as to provide and take away the struggle of life. An asteroid coming for a planet? The forerunners would yeet the asteroid whereas the Precursors would be like, “bye”.
@@JustinLaFleur1990 one front wherein everything you throw at them is basically thrown back at you and the other is a highly advanced species that number in millions
:"humanity were seeded,. nurtured, allowed to advance, build poetry, arts, science, experience, expanded, raised like cattle to be consumed and our experiences to be fed to the universe as sustenance, over and over again".
"You will be food; nothing more..."- Gravemind
Really puts it into perspective doesnt it.
literal chills reading that
Yeah and the living universe seems really mean.. wouldn’t it hurt to say “come on man it’s just how it goes, chill, I ain’t devouring you, we are just becoming one!”
Kinda similiar to what we are doing to animals today
@@InfernoPhoenix100 dont ever ever compare that to us
It’s kind of disturbing even in reality when you consider simulation theory has hardly any evidence against it and would imply it’s not the first go round here. Halo continues to amaze me. I had no idea it’s lore was this complex, and personally, inspiring.
Heavily possible and pretty disturbing if you ask me. Pretty Lovecraftian too actually.
Brings back the all Alien Prometheus story.
We all assume that we are created by creatures that were animated by pure intentions.
But how would you feel if you come to realize that like the vegetables in your backyard, you’re basically a crop like many other types of crops in a universal garden. And that the creation of your existence, the meaning of life itself can be summarized into : « well I needed food so there you are. »
Remember rick and morty, the episode with the passing butter robot ? Or mass effect with the harvester ? Same story...
Ouch !
This has turned into a Lovecraft horror story, damn.
Yeah halo can be pretty depression when thinking upon the abstract and down the line consequences.
It's been since the Forerunner trilogy. Though I disagree with Isaac Hinds. If anything, the Master Chief's story is a story of hope.
It always has had lovecraftian elements.
Chuthulu is a Precursor?!
@@admiralprestoncole You beat me to it. And also, I read in another comment stream that the flood are meant to unite and preserve all life, and that the precursors either always meant to end with the flood, or were originally benevolent creatures who were naive, and had their naivete stripped away when the forerunners attacked them out of jealousy against the humans. So halo either was mass effect before mass effect was mass effect, or halo is pulling a Hamlet.
"You will be food... nothing more." - Universe
Food for thought.
@@karakas9905 Words must be edible
If you think about it everything is consumed one way or another. Whether you are eaten by worms or fire we will all be consumed in the end. Cosumed by are selves....we eat are selves...forever 😆
@@jakeballou5147 I eat yo maka everyday. Just kidding.
the more you think bout it the creeper it gets
Ironic, the creators of life ended up becoming the greatest threat to that life.
Barbare4032 Not from the Forerunners
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Primordial the Wise?
@@VNM-Venom252 cortana pls no be bad to unsc
@@kyleknight9686 No.
@Cortana Not quite. The creators of life in the Milky Way had always intended to assimilate their creation. Life was created only to sustain the living universe. So they did not BECOME a threat. Destruction of life is what they always intended.
"no peace amongst the stars, just endless war and the laughter of dark gods"
@@broregret in grim dark far future of the Galaxy there is only war
The Precursors be like:
"I brought you into this universe, I can take you out of it"
thats what a God is..
people always impose their own understanding towards it…
Well, not quite--
"I brought you into this universe, I can make you one with it."
would be a bit more accurate.
To say that my mind is blown is an understatement. The flood were always a terrifying concept to me, like how the grave mind will have all the of the knowledge and memories of the previous ones, existing in the very fabric of the universe, but I always thought the ancient humans killing themselves was a bit over the top, I was so very wrong. My view on the flood is forever changed. That part about the forerunners slaughtering the precursors was something I never could quite get my head around. Why would they just up and decide to kill their gods? Now it makes sense
@Jazz Feline like adding more seasoning to the food before consumption.
Right? It’s all so freaking disturbing! Like it’s very unsettling, and I love it!
The Forerunners didn't kill their Gods for no reason at all?
You know how crazy that sounds???
But why did didact still call humanity the bad guys???🤔🤔🤔
@@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy because as the humans took the mantle into their hands and destroyed flood infected planets without alerting the forerunners of its existence, the didact sees it as an act of galaxy-wide genocide as he doesn't know of the floods existence. The humans and forerunners were also at war at the time so that probably explains why they didn't tell the forerunners what they were doing. The didact also lost his children to the humans as well so that probably doesn't help matters. The didact was also driven insane after speaking to the primordial and this likely meant that any reasoning, even by his own wife the librarian, about convincing the didact that the war should end and that humans should hold the mantle would be seen as blasphemy to him. He also blames the humans for the floods takeover of the galaxy and all this builds up to a natural hatred for humanity
"Do I take life or give it. Who is victim and who is foe?"
*foe
@@MistahFox thank you
Victims don’t spread creep.
@@theseventhcolumn9827 *Construct additional Pylons.*
Child of my enemy, why have you come? I offer no forgiveness.
The primordial just quietly goes: It's free real estate.
V1p3r / 😂🤣😂🤣
Ancient humans: (interrogate Primordial)
Primordial: "I have crippling depression."
(Humans commit suicide)
everyone else in the room:
i must commit die
Ita purple
I am crying tears at this amazing comment 😂😂😂
I was thinking, how horrific could this secret possibly be? And after watching this video I think, yes this has to be it or close to it. I can’t think of anything more horrific than the universe causing suffering just for the sake of experiencing it.
Yeah. This basically makes Halo monotheistic but where the god is evil instead of righteous and loving. Though evil by what standard? I suppose we could say, if we dispense with the idea of a righteous God who exists outside of time and space and is the very personfication of good and truth, through whom our very concept of truth and righteousness is made possible. In this scenario, who's to say allowing the abomination that is the Flood to wreak all the horror and havoc it does arguably is even bad, because to whom is the universe accountable? If everything is just an inevitable part of a cycle that exists so that the universe can be enriched for the sake of being enriched, and this is all there is, than what's the point of morality? It allows societies and civilizations to thrive and grow, sure . . . but only so that they can be devoured and consumed in the most painful and horrific way imaginable? That same morality does not apply to entity that originates the cycle that they are a part of?
This opens up very intersesting areas of consideration about why an all-powerful God would want to use the mortals that He creates and why he would allow suffering and evil to exist.
And makes it pretty clear that the only real hope we have is that a righteous, all-powerful God really does exist. If stuff like this is the alternative, who WOULDN'T want to serve, know, and worship that God?
Kinda makes the universe a bit masochistic, yeah?
I think that the Domain is the key. The Forerunners used it but didn't entirely comprehend it. I think that in order to beat the Flood you must simultaneously attack it in normal space and in the Domain, destroy it physically and metaphysically. Reminds me of Legacy of Kain where the Elder God who exists in both the material realm and the spectral realm can only be harmed by a weapon that is both physical and spiritual (the completed Soul Reaver)...
"Just as the blade rends flesh so too must power scar the spirit"
Crazy to think that the Forerunners were doing us a favour
As we tried to do for them when the flood showed up.
Funny af
@Jazz Feline But 'we' wouldn't exist tho
@Jazz Feline the flood would still would have won the war, we may be fend of against them for few more millennia, but precursors made them as they were reset button on the universe
@@tacobread3 yup
So is halo a time loop
Ancient Human: Hey, what's the Flood?
Primordial: I am.
Ancient Human: **Gunshot**
Did you intend to make think of the Futurama explanation of the dinosaur's extinction?
Wait, the Precursors are the flood?
Always has been.
*Click*
It was like a god telling its people that their purpose is just to grow and die for their nurishment/amusement.
Forget the video theory above, this is what really happened.
@@AdeptKing flood is 40K chaos gods confirmed
I did not expect an Azathoth level of meaninglessness to existence in Halo. I have to say, I am quite enjoying the hidden, Lovecraftian aspects of the Halo universe--it really makes the stories told more interesting.
Halo: Where you can find both allusions to the biblical Flood and the Ark of the Covenant as well as existential Lovecraftian horror in the unknowable madness that lurks in the abyss between dead galaxies, all the while being delivered in a fun, action packed odyssey of John Haloman who kill aliems and doesn’t afraid of anything (not even the retching ruinous things that consume the minds of all living things, wholly and totally to feed an insatiable, gluttonous universe, a pulsating gelatinous mass of stellar flesh and viscous starlight) and the Arbiter, who cast down false prophets and guided his people to salvation in times of doubt and faithless melancholy, aiding God’s chosen peoples, the Reclaimers, who would take the Ark to stave off the Flood in times of great need.
It's called haloism
thats why the games portray hope, unity and courage.
Very interesting theory! I think you’re either correct, or very close to being correct. I believe it’s possible that the flood are NOT the Precursors as they once were, but rather that they are what the Precursors CHOSE to become in the wake of the Forerunners treachery.
“Resignation is my virtue, like water I ebb and flow, defeat is simply the addition of time, to a sentence that I never deserved but you imposed”
It can’t be stopped you can only delay the inevitable and even then you are feeding the living universe sweetness before the inevitable comes
Such is life.
Your struggle is a story. It likes stories. Especially ones of bravery until the end, heroes fighting not because victory is assured, or even possible, but fighting on principle, fighting because that's what they do, fighting to ease the suffering of others, to bring hope in the darkness, because in their eyes, it's the right thing to do, comfortable in the knowledge that their death will delay others, if only temporarily, because that is enough, and there will be others.
It likes to hear your stories; the longer, the better. But it's getting late, and some stories don't end today. You will tell it the ending on another day. Rest well, and make tomorrow interesting; it is not yet time for your story to end, and it wishes to hear more at the next sunset...
Edit: Aaaand I've just realized I accidentally created an anti-suicide message... Nice
Last time I was this early, the Sangheili and San Shyuum were still at war. The first time
same
The why I interpreted this is: the primordial told the ancient humans this isn’t the first time we have consumed your race your empire. You are the “blank” numbered iteration of mankind we seeded. And as we planted you and wanted you grow we have returned to reap our harvest. Fight. Struggle... die. It matters not we will consume you had we have thousands of times before and thousands of times we shall again.” That truth that my entire race as consumed before inly to be reseeded to be consumed again. That we had fight back every time only to lose again and again oh shit that would drive me to sucicde
We only wished to give you the mantle because we knew your leadership would lead the galaxy to ruin once more and again you will be used to harvest this garden so we may seed you again and sustain ourselves
Just thought it worked as an add on to what you said
Gonna have to find Davros real quick. The reality bomb is starting to look pretty "good" about now. Hell, I'd make The Doctor go back in time and stop himself from killing the body of The Beast and see if it could break the cycle that these damned Precursors have set on the universe. I truly wonder what powers a primordial entity can bring to a fight 🤣
@@blackshogun272 I am pretty sure they are in league with one above all in marvel universe, destruction, war, loss, blood, is tooooooooioooooo primitive for a species which is older than the universe by unknown time,
@@lordofadmirals6348 well considering the primordial literally became one with the universe and quoted that the only way for him to perish is for all life to tuck into the folds and break
@@lordofadmirals6348 I'd say no one really stands a chance except for TOAA because the primordial has lots of powers due to Neural Physics and him warping time and space, being able to change on a molecular level, being able to drive insanity into beings that are much older than Earth, I'd say just about anything you can think of the primordial can most likely do, except for magical abilities, unless you count Neural Physics as magic then yes, magic too
My old boss had the same set of beliefs as the precursors. He used it to justify how horribly he treated people, saying their spirit had 'chosen' to have an 'experience' in life where they were treated badly.
I rejected it
Did you ask him what it's like to be a living war crime?
@@JulietStMoon I should have
Is there a movement for this type of beliefs? Is It part of New Age wellness energy thingies
The Primordial, an eldritch horror. This is one way of describing this creature in my opinion.
Basically, it's the real life Satan of Halo
@@fieldadmiralspartanryseb-8293 No Satan wants to overthrown God, heaven, and corrupt humans.
The Primordial is ruled by the Mantle of Responsibility and in turn the universe. Everything it did was in the believe that this is what the living universe wants.
@@isaachinds3736 Dude. The damn thing thinks "misery is sweetness" It gets pleasure out of pain and suffering. Satan just has political reasons. The Primordial has psychotic reasons...
Oh shit the forerunners were the good guys all along
@@fieldadmiralspartanryseb-8293 it also thinks any experience is sweetness.
It isnt about the things. Its about the things happening because its possible to happen.
He showed them Cursed Halo 2
"Oh, god! The Scarab Gun shoots ACTUAL SCARABS!"
@@Iknowtoomuchable Honestly that's a great gag, go tell Inferno that idea!
Halo 2 cursed idea on the mission gravemind on legendary instead of brutes you spawn in and are faced with Jackle snipers
cursed halo 2: jackal snipers have antiaim and triggerbot.
Oh God not Rule 34 of Chief and Arbiter.
I wonder how many cycles the universe has been through before the forerunners came about? Did an other civilization or race in a different cycle find this out and try to stop them as well? One question answered two more arise.
I would think so. We know the precursors originated from outside the Milky Way galaxy. It's possible that the model for their plan was perfected in many other galaxies many times before.
Okay so the living universe encompasses billions of galaxies and expanding its size faster than light. Based on this theory and other supporting lore, the cumulative intelligence of living universe is extreme and beyond human comprehension. Also any act of defiance and rebellion to this reality of harvesting experiences is onto itself a unique experience which living universe enjoys. It is as simple as following: "Forerunners attempt to destory the cycle was like memory of a small day dream to the living universe yet millions and billions of these small memories combined is what sweetness of life is all about." This is pretty disgusting and horrific to be honest
@@zubairnoor9535 thats the equivalent of someone tell god whats right or wrong based on extreeeeeemly limited understand of anything
@@Gearhart7354 Right and Wrong from human perspective would be based upon individual or societal experience. I Remember hearing that there are cults within humans and covenants who worship the flood. So you have a point about the God thing. But from a human's perspective its a definite wrong. Because we like to have a best experience where our existence has a value which exceed all other existence. To us accepting that reality of being space cattle was not possible . The ancient humans couldn't reconcile between the obvious truth told by the primordial and uniqueness of human power of will, they ended up self-destructing.
@@zubairnoor9535 true enough
I actually really like this theory. The Precursors said our experiences are part of the Living universe but they never say how it gets there. They plant the seeds only to return for the fruits in a new form. No wonder they were terrified
This is mind-blowing, the relation between the flood and Precursors always seemed to have more to it, and this makes so much sense.
I already wanted the Flood to be in Infinite's campaign, but now I REALLY want them, even if not at launch, a story dlc like "awakening the nightmare" in Halo Wars 2, or something to bring them back would just be awesome for so many reasons imo.
There really needs to be games about this era of the halo universe
I'd be down for a game that tells the story of bornstellar tho a movie might fit better with his story.
It would be so disconnected to the main story line that the majority of public wouldn’t get it. Destiny have this kind of problem about the foundation of the story (aka the Dark age and Golden Age) that doesn’t seem to be of interest to the company to make a proper game rather than keep giving hints through the twisted dialogues and Lore: the games stories goes forward (Halo and Destiny). Obviously there is a lot more to talk about this , like an contradictory example of my idea with the fact that Halo Wars 1 which is set 25 years prior to Halo 1, but still: the mainstream Halo games go forward, talking about their stories. The idea is open for discussion
TDS
@@miguelsalas4852 gets even more confusing if you consider that the big sphere in the sky of destiny was probably what bungie originally planned for the didact before leaving halo. He comes to earth after the covenant war, and humans basically warship him, thinking he is the god the covenant described. However, he has mal intent, just like its hinted that the visitor in destiny has mal intent. I.e destiny is halo 4 if bungie still ran it, probably why its story was so gutted originally, they couldnt use halo lore that originally propper it up.
@@chinesecovidanalswabs4752 it really is sad to see.
Forerunners: I thought you died!
Precursors coming back as the Flood: My death was... greatly exaggerated.
me: hears this video
result: seeks the nearest cliff