A Critical Error With Calvinism Part 1: ruclips.net/video/ygePIgd7DJU/видео.html A Critical Error With Calvinism Part 2: ruclips.net/video/A23Mc_eqWu8/видео.html
Yes Jordan. These Calvinists I see in the comments, if they were the ones to write the Bible, would NEVER DREAM of ever writing the things the actual Bible says
The Bible is the Inspired Word of God I would specially not trust Jordan from the Great darkness Studio. But for that mater multitudes can not even read it, for example Jordan, let us not talk about write it.
Which is baffling that calvinists always go to that one verse in Romans which they interpret as faith is given as a gift, while ignoring a plethora of verses where faith is specifically to the beliver and not a gift .
Faith to the believer? What is a believer need faith for? They already have it that’s what makes them a believer. And you’re the one that said, it’s important to understand pistis and pistuon . Go figure .
You're right brother, this shouldn't even be a conversation that's still taking place amongst those who have actually read the Bible. It simply boils down to whether one reads and accepts what the texts actually say .
I just happened upon this video. I'm not a Calvinist, so I am not trying to defend their view on anything here. But here is what I am responding to: " . . . those who have actually read the Bible." Every single person I have ever tried to have a serious conversation about theological things reads their Bible, and yet we still disagree on some things. A few of them have done what this quote does, self-righteously shut down the conversation by declearing that their point of view is clear to those who read their Bible. This implies one of two things: Some people cannot read. Those that can read, but still cling to their disagreement are people intentionally disobeying God. I am so looking forward to the day when Revelation 21:1-4 is fulfilled.
@jamesfreeman8247 you bring a false dichotomy because that's not the only two choices . There,s a few other choices, but the main one I had in mind when making that true statement was there are those who are convinced what tge Bible says before they open the book because of doctrinal systematic indoctrination or something grandpa told them or whatever . With so much outside influence its hard sometimes for folks to actually just realize and accept what tge texts are saying . You see right here you tried to built you're own dichotomy of choices giving all possible examples and I'm sure you weren't trying to be dishonest but you were anyway on accident. It's the same when folks go to read scripture, they've been taught the texts cam only mean this or that , which is usually not even the case .. GOD bless you
Also , I wasn't referring to every subject in scripture, I was simply referring to the faith is not a work aspect of it if you'll notice , but I appreciate the fact that you took the time to judge my effoerts and tried correct me . I'm sure it was our of love . GOD bless
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 "you bring a false dichotomy . . . There,s a few other choices" I think I missed where you gave me the other choices? I think you are giving people the benefit of the doubt that they are not intentionally disobeying God, but from what I can tell, your main point was that people cannot read. Correcting in love? That strikes me as harsher than intended term. I simply wanted to suggest that God-fearing people could come to a difference of opinion over a passage (or two) of Scripture.
@@jamesfreeman8247 I see the problem now . The fact that you came to the conclusion that I was claiming people couldn't read is very telling . I explained what I meant by that statement in my reply to you . Then your remark about the correction in love thing is very telling about where you're at as well . If I hurt your feelings, I humbly ask your forgiveness. GOD bless
What a great video in response to the Calvinist who says, "well, the righteousness that God gives us is our own." Wrong. How astute of you to logically drill down this narrative to show that they're "proof" wasn't well thought out and is wrong. There was everything to love about this video! Keep up the good work and your ministry to the body of Christ.
3:58 -- Correct. Faith, without their doctrine of Irresistible Grace, does not save in Calvinism. This is why they label the faith of Christians who reject Calvinism, as a "Work", a "non-salvific" faith that does not save. Calvinists, such as John Piper put themselves in place of God and use scare tactics asking rhetorical questions such as "WHY did you believe when others didn't?" to shift salvation from "faith" to CAUSATION of faith. In other words, the 'CAUSATION of faith' is what saves & is pleasing to God, NOT faith in God itself, and that 'CAUSATION of faith', is Calvinisms doctrine of "Irresistible Grace" designated only for Gods "Elect".
Love the passages... meaning who are the people who are the true carriers of "Sola Escritura?" meaning Only Scripture, are definitely not the Calvinist. Not the late RC Sprouls, not Johm MacArthur, not John Piper, definitely not Paul the destroyer of salvation Washer. I've had dozens of talks with families that have been deceived by John MacArthur, so much so they will read Gods Word, tell me they believe it but that I am interpreting it wrong. Clear concise scriptures. Not vague or questionable scriptures. Good work, Jason keep it up.
You need to leave Paul Washer alone....that man is evangelizing to lost souls and doesn't need your interference. He is probably having to go behind and fix a lot of the false converts that today's modern decisionism creates in droves filling people with deceived assurance who have NEVER been born again and who thanks to false preaching don't see their need for it.
To make it easier: Dad: Son, I will take you to Disneyland. I will drive you there, pay for gas, food, and the tickets and hotel. You have to pay me nothing, just come with me and enjoy. Do you want to go? Son (believing his dad is telling the truth): Yes, father. Calvinists: That son earned that trip by saying yes and stole some of his dad's glory! .................. I agree, this is elementary stuff and the bible debates faith vs works over and over. They are never the same and always contrasted. Calvinists listen to "learned" men and then run out and try to convince everyone else they are right because John MacArthur says so, even when the bible says differently. Did you know that John Piper teaches that election is unconditional but glorification is not? Pay attention, they are completely works-based pastors. Saying that by submitting fully we somehow "activate" our salvation. If we have to do one thing, then Christ didn't do everything.
Actually the son would have to go unless dad got a baby sitter or left him with family. Otherwise that would be child abandonment...unless the child is already old enough to stay on his own in which case he is also old enough to get his own ticket...get a job Jr. and quit mooching off dad!
@@mikegreene9137 What an odd response. So we earn our own salvation and don't mooch grace off God? I am confused. Unless this is just some joke? I might be dense.
@freeguy7628 haha... no, I was just making a silly response to your analogy. Besides why would God want to bring us to Disneyland? Have you seen that immoral cesspool lately?
Yes Jordan, those that believe scripture & haven't been indoctrinated into an extra biblical system can see that. False teachings are from the Devil "Hath God indeed said". When you succumb to them you are wilfully blinded in part.
Please read what John Murray, [without controversy a thoroughgoing Calvinist] wrote, "Regeneration is a work of God and of God alone. But faith is not the act of God; it is not God who believes in Christ for salvation, it is the sinner. It is by God's grace that a person is able to believe, but faith is an activity on the part of the person and of him alone" (Redemption: Accomplished and Applied, 1955, 106).
My experience from many decades of practicing God’s Holy Word and participating in various church bodies has disciplined me concerning overemphasis on a particular collection of scripture. Such as the scriptures that that seem to support the prosperity Gospel but pervert truth. Calvinism as displayed in the Tulip, ultimately puts God to the test. The doctrine of sovereignty is sound but it doesn’t make free will irrelevant or perfunctory. We have been given sovereign commands. We are urged to be reconciled not resigned to fate. Most Calvinist understand and readily accept the personal burden of finding right knowledge, but knowing Christ Himself points towards a personal response. Not as a “so called work” but as a fruit of truth! Beloved test the spirits! Are you on fire with love for your brother, or for more knowledge. If we spent as much time trying to be like Jesus as many do studying John Calvin interpretations we would see revival for ourselves and those we are privileged to love. Humility and Holiness - YES!!!!, tulip?, I kindly say “No thank you!”
🎯🎯 ... Very well done Jordan... just imagine, if only you had been there to remind Augustine of these things before he made that fatal misstep in accepting Pelagius' Red Herring that his faith was indeed a work.... just think how many lives could have been spared the destruction of the Doctrines of Grace.🙏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Oh, but faith is indeed work, my good man. Christ Himself made no secret of it.👇👇👇 "Jesus told them, “This is THE ONLY WORK GOD WANTS FROM YOU: BELIEVE in the one He has sent.”" (John 6:29 NLT).
@@signposts6189 Context is everything... Read the whole chapter, don't pull out a single verse because it has the "lucky" word you're searching for to try and establish some element of doctrine. Jesus had just fed the 5000, he met the disciples across the water the next day. The crowd followed him seeking him to 'work' more miracles. He discouraged them from seeking these "signs" which was the habitual way of the Jews since coming out of Egypt. He has even said in Matthew "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign," Here he juxtaposed the physical manifestations (demonstrable works) they required of him with the rhetorical,(maybe even sarcastic) "work" of simply believing just as Abraham did, which is not work as Paul clearly points out .. (lest any man should boast). Abraham's belief was never called "work" and did not 'merit' anything. But God chose to count it as righteousness, which further demonstrated God's desire for man to believe in him. Jesus then spoke in very specific language (cannibalism) to essentially get them to go away. Because the time for him to call all unto himself was not to come until after his death and resurrection, and he was not announcing who he was with a loudspeaker at that moment in time. He did not want these people following him... they would be needed soon to cry "crucify him". (But many of these same ones will later repent and believe at Pentecost). At the end of Jn.6, it is confirmed in vs.66"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." He even acknowledged he had chosen the 12 and even one of them was a (devil/judas) would betray him.
@@mikegreene9137 I do know that Augustine knew literally nothing of Hebrew or Greek and essentially relied only on the Latin Vulgate. And that in his effort to 'win' the argument with Pelagius he literally contradicted about 20yrs of his own Christian teaching against his previous 10yrs as a practicing Manichaean Gnostic. The historical record is clear. Augustine went back in time to blow the dust off his determinist roots and use the very arguments he had abandoned as heresy after his conversion to Christianity. And he tied his leg to them so securely his pride would never allow him to get free of his own mistake.
@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT you are flat out wrong about that and the biblical doctrines pertaining to God's sovereignty and providence and predestination have NOTHING to do with ANY form of gnosticism. They are COMPLETELY different and those that make such statements should be embarrassed for trying to defame Augustine just to try to establish their own traditions. And I know he wasn't perfect in all his doctrines (most of us probably aren't) and he wasn't infallible but he was a very wise and intelligent man of the faith and did an outstanding job of exposing Pelagius as the heretic that he was. Many of you play far too close with Rome and also Pelagius and that is why I think yall attack Augustine the way you do. God bless
Cerca :55, you need a quote from a Calvinists that suggest that we believe if we initiate the act of faith "we are adding our righteousness to salvation." That is not what I believe, and I don't know of any Calvinists who believes that. Faith is not righteousness. The question is whether it is God who is the ultimate arbiter who determines who will be saved or is it the sinner? Given your view, it cannot be the redemptive work of Christ, in itself, that secures anyone's salvation. If it did not secure the salvation of everyone for whom it was offered, it could not have secured anyone's salvation. Something must be added to it to render it effective. In your view, that something is the sinner's libertarian free will decision. Our view is that the work of Christ, in itself, secured the salvation of a multitude that no one can number and that work must be applied by God's call. It is of Him, that we are in Christ (1 Cor. 1:30), not of us. That is not speaking about the accomplishment of salvation but about the application of the redemptive work of Christ once for all accomplished.
This is brilliant! We believe and trust in His righteousness, our faith is the evidence that we did this, us the believer. When we agree with the truth, it’s not a work. Our agreement doesn’t add, it’s the vehicle that we were chosen by. All who believe may come! ”But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,“ II Thessalonians 2:13
This is so basic. The idea that we choose or decide to put our faith in Christ, is most definately not adding to salvation and faith is not a work that earns salvation This is fact not opinion. How do I know? Because nowhere in the Bible is faith described to us in the way a calvinist describes it. This is a doctrine that was invented, and then, having invented it, they had to justify it. For example: R.C.Sproul said 'Regeneration preceeds faith.' A common calvinist comment. Show that to me. The Bible never says that. Never.
The argument that faith coming from us creates a system wherein we gain our own salvation is rather narrow-minded, or unimaginative. As A.W. Tozer points out, what if that is exactly the system which God set up from the beginning? We have to have faith in order to be saved. We have to respond to God's call, in whatever form He chooses to call us (Nature [see Romans 1], the Law, the Prophets, Jesus' incarnation, the Holy Spirit, direct communication, etc.). We still get not credit for the saving, or the forgiving, just as the Prodigal got on credit for the saving, but he DID have to recognize his situation and turn from it and go back to his Father. To say that faith coming from us makes us part of our own saving assumes that God did not set up this as the system in the first place, which is the Calvinist assumption. I'm sure others could word all of this much better than I.
Faith is a work. 1 Thessalonians 1:3 - “…constantly bearing in mind *your work of faith* and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father…” 2 Thessalonians 1:11 - “To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the *work of faith* with power…” Faith IS a work, it’s just God’s work (John 6:29) that He has both authored and perfected (Hebrews 12:2), that man lives in to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure” (Philippians 2:12-13, cf. Ephesians 2:10). We keep having this discussion because "free willers" keep insisting on a narrative that is antagonistic to the scriptures.
Jordan - Enjoyed the video. I suggest that faith is indeed a gift given to us by God (along with "life, breath, and everything else"), but, unlike God's righteousness or God's grace, it is uniquely "given away" to us - to manage, direct (toward Christ), nurture, strengthen-- or to shipwreck.
Keep up the excellent exposes. Before I watch the video, I want to suggest that Calvinism and its adherents seem to have a lot in common with the mystery religions of Hellenized Roman empire. The selective and secretive rites and "tapping in" that are limited to an elite bunch...it all starts getting a little too human for me. I am not all in on this analogy, but it does seem to be in contravention of Christ's universal offer to all who would come.
Could faith be a gift of God placed in our care, but His gift of free will gives us the option as to where we place it or in whom? Meaning, the sufficiency, quality, genuineness, or truthfulness of that faith is never the question, but rather, the object of that faith. Many people in cults have genuine faith, but the object of the faith is insufficient to save. The faith isn’t deficient; the object is. Only Jesus is sufficient to save, hence we must choose to place our faith in Him.
Was Paul's faith given to him? No. But his eyes were opened so he could place his faith in the true God and believe in Christ. We are saved the same way. We are not given our belief or our faith. The Bible does not teach that. We are given, by God ,an ability to see ourselves properly ( our need for a savior) and to see God properly ( the one who has provided that savior) We are then, because of our faith, and Christs propitiation of our sins, we are clothed in Christs righteousness ( we have none of our own) . You are right Jordan this is simple to understand. I talked about this with my pastor 2 weeks ago and I thing he said was that proof texts are not always possible. You need to see the entire package and see what God has done throughout the Bible. The Bible is written by God as a historic redemptive narrative. That is critical to understand so to get an accurate picture of what God is doing in time.
The Bible is full of verses that confirm we are covered by the righteousness of Christ alone and faith is NOT works. Heb.11 [1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen
Have you read the verses leading up to that? And the whole chapter 11. Seems to me a lot of men doing things. Faith and works are not opposed to each other. But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: "For yet a little while, [And] He who is coming will come and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; But if [anyone] draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. [Heb 10:32-39 NKJV] Now!!!!!!!!!!!! faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, The rest of the chapter gives countless examples which Paul had no time to explain in great detail.
I think many are confused by the definition of faith. I think the measure is what God has given us to be faithful to. Faith is also faithfulness. I like to think of those in the parable of the 1, 2 and 5 talents. To whom much is given much is required. I am not sure how anyone gets through the Gospel of Matthew and define faith as something passive and as a mental ascent only.
Calling faith works is like saying if you respond to “do you want a burger and fries?” Simply saying yes or no is work, when in fact you’re not making the food and you’re not picking up the food, you’re not even paying for it, you’re simply accepting or rejecting it. That’s not work, that’s faith. You can’t contrast faith with works if faith is works, there is no contrast at that point.
prove it then. there are only 3 options 1. God chooses those who choose Him (the bible) 2. God chooses based on works (the law) 3. God draws names from a hat (calvinism) of course the calvinist will vehemently deny that God arbitrarily chooses. But unless you KNOW on what basis He chooses, you can NEVER know if you are actually saved. you have no foundation
As I understand it, faith is simply believing God. We complicate it too much, and not just the Calvinists. The word of Faith movement teaches that faith is a force and that our words and actions can tap into this force to create prosperity, healing, and other miracles, which is actually occult theology and witchcraft. Is there any surprise that our adversary would try to throw so much confusion around something so simple that is the narrow gate to salvation.
The problem should be resolvable by believing both. In other words, God gives us faith and it becomes our faith God gives us righteousness and it becomes our righteousness. Ephesians 2:8.9 should help people because it is a gift of God not because of works. There are only two positions. Either you by your brilliance, virtue, something else, merited your situation into saving Faith or its entirely a work of God. Then we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. If anyone out there wants to really read a beautiful and not just polemic about this topic, read ji Packers book knowing god- a Christian Classic that unfortunately has not been in the hands of every Christian.
(1Co 4:7) For who is making you to discriminate? Now what have you which you did not obtain? Now if you obtained it also, why are you boasting as though not obtaining? (Heb 12:2) looking off to the Inaugurator and Perfecter of faith, Jesus, Who, for the joy lying before Him, endures a cross, despising the shame, besides is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. These two verses alone sum it up quite well. Work or not If I can point to one thing I have which wasn't given to me, then I can boast as though not obtaining from anyone. Secondly, Christ is the inaugurator and Perfecter of faith. There's just no way around that.
As for the "sovereignty of God," In Ephesians 1:11, we see that God “works all things according to the counsel of His will.” This “all things,” according to verse 10 includes all things in the heavens and all things on the earth. The word translated into English as “work” is the transitive verb “ἐνεργέω” (energeo), which means “to effect;” since all “effects” must have a sufficient cause, this passage quite literally makes God the ultimate cause of all things in heaven and on earth. The same transitive verb construction is seen in Ephesians 1:19, 1 Corinthians 12:6, 11, Galatians 3:5, Philippians 2:13; see Thayer’s, pg. 215.
Mankind has been given the ability to trust and believe by God. This is faith. It can help us do many things in life, it's necessary to exist. Without it we couldn't walk out side or even eat. Fishermen understand this more than just about anybody whenever they cast their net...one more time. And Man often places his faith in many things which are not what they seem to be. But mans faith only reaches it's full potential when its rejoined with its original source...God. Satan's goal is to undermine man's faith/trust in God. That is what his lie to Eve was all about by proposing the thought which says, "you can't trust God to love you ...personally". Calvinism simply perpetuates the same lie, especially in the heart of the Christian.
Faith is connected to works. Faith is what moves people to action/ or work. When Paul says works don't to lead to salvation, he's talking about works of the Mosaic Law. Works in connection with faith in Jesus will lead to salvation. We can't even manifest faith without work (see James 2:17-18).
You seriously need to read John Murray's "Redemption Accomplished and Applied," and interact with that instead of continuing to embarrassing yourself by attempting to disprove what no one believes.
When a person has faith, that means he/she has a fear of God, where that fear then informs their behavior. That’s why Paul says that righteousness had by faith: Romans 9:30b-32a …Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained righteousness - namely the righteousness that comes from faith. But Israel, pursuing the law for righteousness, has not achieved the righteousness of the law., Why is that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works.
If Calvinism were true then the Bible would be written totally different than it is. There would be no need for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden. John 3:16 would read, "For God so loved the elect that He predestined everyone to heaven or hell. And Abraham's Faith wouldn't be credited to him as righteousness, but God's Irresistible Grace would be shoved down Abraham's throat. The systematic theology of Calvinism or reformed theology complicates the simple Gospel message, and is unbiblical. This branch of theology turns God into a monster who arbitrarily picks people to go to heaven and people to go to hell when the Bible clearly teaches that God gives people a choice in the matter. You can accept or reject the good news of what Jesus has done. It's a choice. You can decide to repent and live a new life pleasing to God or you can reject such a lifestyle. You can even become a Christian and then deny the faith or be faithful until death. It's all a choice. Calvinist theologians will say that because of their made up doctrine of Total Depravity we are so dead (not just spiritually separated) that we can't even make a choice and that God has to choose for us, but that flies in the face of common sense and Scripture. Everyone is alive enough to pick out what they want for breakfast (in most cases) but when it comes to choosing God or rejecting Him, Calvinists believe that God forces us to make a choice because we are unable to. Calvinists go so far as to say that God actually ordains every act of evil and they completely leave out Satan. Calvinists sound more like Job's complaining friends because they constantly blame God for evil and leave out free will and demonic influence. One thing that really bothers me about Calvinism is they say God is glorified even when something evil happens and that it was His will. But the Bible teaches that Satan is the author of evil and people can make evil choices outside of God's will. I speak out about Calvinism because I think it's harmful to people mentally and spiritually. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 NIV Jesus willingly paid the penalty for our sins (for the sins of the whole world) by being falsely accused, tortured and then executed on a Roman cross. We deserve separation from God and eternal punishment in hell because we have all sinned against our Creator who is Holy and does no evil. The free gift of salvation is available to everyone who believes of their own free will. The work has already been done by God through Christ. All we have to do is accept the free gift He is offering us by faith. The gift of salvation, a new life with God, and The Holy Spirit. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you shall be saved. Then be baptized for the remission of your sins and follow the teachings of Christ and the apostles; enduring to the end.
It seems to me, that any one of the tulip five demands the other four exist. Someone smarter than I must have already figured this out. Do you know if anyone has done this?
While most Lutherans don't get very deep into their theology, those that do will quickly realize Lutheran theology teaches humans have no free will and if you believe in Jesus it's because God forced you to believe in Jesus, so there's no reason to evangelize, and they consider what real Christians call "faith" to be a work and thus you are deceived into thinking you have personal accountability for having believed even though God/Jesus commands us to believe and/or to have faith like 1000 times. Truly evangelical Lutherans look at this from pretty much the same perspective as evangelical Calvinists--if people don't hear the gospel preached it won't flip that magic switch God uses to make people believe and then become the elect unto salvation. It's all totally stupid, but they get this demonic stronghold of religious false humility which blinds them to what the Bible says and makes them deny personal accountability for their actions while also making God and the devil the same person. If you avoid all the propaganda written about Luther or Calvin or Augustine and actually read them yourself, it's pretty easy to see they weren't these heroes of the faith they are made out to be by Calvinists liars who idolize them but rather severely disturbed false converts who led millions of people into some new branch of heresy over hundred of years. They corrected some things that were wrong but drove straight into the opposite ditch. Renounce Protestantism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy and choose Christ.
(Romans 9:16, AVRLE) “16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that, but of God that sheweth mercy.” (John 1:13, AVRLE) “13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
Subbed to your podcast but came over to leave a couple comments from listening in. Several thoughts.. 1. To help clarify the Calvinist position.. Calvinists view all that is required for salvation as having been accomplished by Christ. Thus faith being the means NOT condition for justification is given by God. Calvinists don’t do a good enough job recognizing that non Calvinists don’t view faith as integral to salvation but rather see it as a condition to be met apart from any effectual act of God. However, you didn’t see this either.. so you’ll continue not getting why this conversation needs to be had. 2. Calvinists therefore have an argument but it seems you’ve missed it.. but likely due to the poor wording from rather ill informed calvinists online. 3. Your insistence that faith is yours by virtue of Christ saying “your faith has made you whole” proves too much for your case. As non-Calvinists are quick to rebut the Calvinist view by saying, “faith doesn’t save but God saves…” well, as you may now see, your point has Jesus’ words in Mark 5 showing that one’s faith heals them, not Jesus… a thing I definitely think you’d walk back. If you press the point, you undermine your entire argument that Christ, not us, are to be given credit..
Faith is just a synonym for trust. God gives us trust in Him. So it's not something we choose. If we chose it, it would be a work. Pretty much all the works of the law are choices. Thou shalt not kill. To NOT kill is a choice you make. Thou shalt not steal. To NOT steal is a choice we make. So to do all the good works of the law involves us exerting an effort of will, i.e. making a choice. That's what works are: choices, sometimes hard choices. As for why it's called OUR faith, this is because it's a part of us. Paul says that faith is of the heart "for with the heart believes to righteousness" i.e. trust comes from the heart. And the new heart is given by God, in Ezekiel he says He will take out the old heart of stone and put in a new heart of flesh, that is, take out the old heart that didn't trust in God's goodness, that was stubborn and hateful to God, and put in a new heart that loves God and trusts Him and wants to please Him. And this new heart trusts in Him, as I say. So it is all God's work. We don't change our hearts: God does. And our new heart (the one God gives us in the new creation) is indeed a part of who we are, so it's OURS in the the sense that it's part of us. God gave us hands (we didn't give ourselves hands) and those hands are OUR hands. And this is the final point: the gift of salvation is not like a PRESENT that we are PRESENTED with, and choose to receive. We received our hands, eyes, ears, mouth, nose, arms, legs, etc... from God IN CREATION. And that is what the new man is: a NEW CREATION. To use the language of Jesus, the new birth, we don't choose to be born again any more than we chose to be born the first time. It's not something that can be chosen.
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. “John 6:37 He is the good Shepherd A good shepherd loses none of the sheep. I think a read of the Bible will reinforce God’s sovereignty. His will WILL BE DONE! “This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” John 6:39
I’m a Calvinist. Some of the things you’re saying about Calvinists sound more like Arminians. Who are these Calvinists? I’ve never heard any Calvinist say faith has anything to do with works; it’s a gift of God so that no one can boast, as Paul said. Regarding righteousness, it is imputed to us because of our faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness.” James 2:23. Romans 4 covers it nicely and states that righteousness is imputed to us through our faith, which is given to us by God. Calvinist’s simply believe that God does it all to save us, since we cannot do it ourselves. Colossians 2:13 says we were dead in our trespasses and sins but that God brought us back to life. Dead people cannot resurrect themselves to believe in the living God. Your interpretation of what Calvinists believe sounds strange to me. I’ll take your word that there are people calling themselves Calvinists who are saying what you’re saying, but they sound like a strange group of folks.
You'll find that much of what these traditionalists and provisionists say really have nothing to do with what we know as "Calvinism " or reformed theology. Much of it is third hand misinformation or misrepresentation that is regurgitated to try to persuade people away from reformed theology and its plainly biblical doctrines. Context and proper exegesis goes a long way to show most people the errors they make in the provisionist camp. God bless brother.
How can you with a staight face "quote" 1 Cor. 1:30 and deliberately leave out the part that states that it is OF GOD that we are in Christ? That is clearly dishonesty.
OK calm down. By the way, can you at all even prove the Bible is true. Who even wrote those passages you quote? Do you believe the Bible is inerrant, infallible, literally true? Calvin lived before the Enlightenment, before Darwin, Copernicus, Freud, modern science in general. You are getting so upset but don't you have to prove the book first? Calvinists have a sort of purist view in a way, I get that. But not to be a jerk, what about the talking donkeys and telling people to kill witches. Do you ever wonder that maybe take a relazed view of the Bible because if you take it literally it's very extreme, moreover churches would be empty. Did bodies getup out of their graves after the ressurection? I really think the only way to confront the "purity" of Calvinism is to force Calvinist to bring it to the logical conclusion. Slavery is OK, snakes can talk (without a voicebox?) demons, witches, giants, exist. Jesus got mad at a tree. Catholcis were worng for 1000 years. The four gospels dont match. Etc. Peopole living to 800? Noahs ark? So you want this pure narrow truth that most people are going to some hell and a few arent' from a book filled with this other stuff. Genesis says the Easth came before the sun. I am not mocking anyone, but if your going to be hyper literal dont you have to be with the whole book? Calvin did not know most of todays science, He also sentenced his friend to death I think. And what about heaven. You think you are going there I presume. Streets of gold? If you can debate so well the details here can you debate all the rest. There are 200,000 erros in the Bible according to shcolars, most not important, but waht about that? I have not read John Murry. Have you read Bart Ehrman? You are probably righ about free will. And I am sure you are smart and Calvin was. But can you prove the Bible. And do you not even admit that there are parts of the Bible that make it seem like there is free will. Like I said, I dont believe in free will but what is "sin" without free will? Even more so, whatis punishment without free will? I presume hell is not a punishment to Calvinists? If it is then what is being punished? If not, why is their some much punitive type language in the Bible? Free will I agree. But total depravity? Is that in the Bible? Sure maybe not righteous people, but totally depraved. How do you explain altuism? Simple kindness? It seems like a nightmarish world to believe that. It just doesn't stand up to observation, unless I am missing the definition of depraved. Thanks a long rant, Peace
Calvinists indeed may be the only Christians who can biblically be assured of their salvation. This is especially true since in the five points of Arminianism (which came before the five points of Calvinism) the fifth Arminian point is that the believer cannot ever be sure of their salvation. So it is within the orignal DNA of Arminianism that assurance of salvation is in the end but a dream at best. People who work in the faith of Christ are disturbed by a worldwide phenomenon wherein people are falling away from the Christian faith. While no Christian might be exempt from the temptation to completely lose heart, it is the Arminians who are most susceptible of falling away and thus not persevering to the end as our Lord commands. Such people are most vulnerable to find out in eternity that Christ never knew them. After all, if you believe that you chose Christ, instead of the other way around, you will always have your mind and heart focused on what you have done. But what if you are always looking outward and upward knowing and realizing that God chose you? That it was God's electing grace, His regenerating power, that gave you the faith to believe in Him, to have a will not in bondage to sin but a will in bondage to Christ as the Apostle Paul says? The coming persecution could actually be at the door this time and in our nation. If you are depending alone on some little prayer you prayed or decision you made way back when, you could be in eternal trouble of repudiating everything you think you now have as a Christian. I think of Mary, Jesus' mother, who stood at the foot of the cross. She could have simply told the Roman authorities that her Son was just crazy, "He gets this way sometimes". "Let me take Him home". I will keep Him there and not let Him out of the house. Mary knew in her heart of hearts that was just not the case because of the angel who came to visit her and because of how she knew she became a mother. Think about this. This conflict I believe is God's way of purifying the church. Where do you want to be?
Faith is the gift of God (Ep 2.8), is a work/operation of God (John 6.29), (Col 2.12), is given in measure to all the elect of God (Rom 12.3), (Mark 9.24), is given for Christ's sake (Phi 1.29), is not given to the reprobate (2 Thes 3.2), of which Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of (Heb 12.2), is accompanied with saving repentance (Acts 5.31), gives hope, joy, and peace (Rom 15.13), (2 Thes 2.16), shows God's eternal love to the believer (1 John 4.19),without which it is impossible to please God (Heb 11.6), and is the means God uses to declare to the elect sinner they are righteous/just in God's sight (Rom 4.3). Looking, hearing, coming, eating, drinking and believing all mean the same thing and it is a sovereign work of God (John 8.47), (Pro 20.12) who is the Saviour of His people (Jonah 2.9), (Mat 1.21), and is a work He will infallible bring to completion (Phi 1.6). God's will indeed is always done (Dan 4.35), (Job 23.13), (Eph 1.11) so the preservation of the saints is a guarantee (John 6.39, 40), for they all shall be raised to eternal life on that last day as they are one with their Head (Heb 2.13,14), who defeated death and hell when He rose the 3rd day for all those who He eternally loves (Jer 31.3).
Paul never says “faith is not a work”. Nothing in Scripture does. A work is simply something we DO. We either DO good things or DO bad things. We either DO good works or DO bad works. Believing is something WE DO. Paul only contrasts “salvation by works” (ie keeping the whole law) with “salvation by works” (ie trusting in Christ… keeping one command). Jesus explicitly calls faith a work in John 6:29. God gives you faith. He also gives you a body/life/breath. If He gives you your body you have no problem saying “it is my body” or “this is your body” or “this is my life” or “the breath in my lungs”. We always POSSESS the gifts God gives to us: Likewise, we can absolutely say “this is my faith”or “your faith has saved you”. As Paul says, God has given to us LIFE, BREATH, and EVERYTHING. (Acts 17:25). Everything. Everything. Everything. If faith is something that YOU HAVE then it is included in EVERYTHING. Finally, Jesus absolutely speaks about our righteousness being required to save us. He says in Matthew 5:20: “For I tell you, unless YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS is required for salvation! An absolute requirement. We cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven without possessing PERFECT righteousness. God GIVES IT TO US as a gift. All of it is a gift. Not only the imputed righteousness of Christ but also all of the good works that flow from us… the first of which is faith. As Luther said: “The first and highest, the most precious of all good works is faith in Christ…” (Luther ~ Treatise on Good Works)
@@brentonstanfield5198 Brenton everyone has a Savior. Some reject their Savior. Jesus is THEE Savior of the world who did not die for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Take off your western Calvinist glasses and learn the reality of what happened on Calvary. Anyone in hell rejected so great a salvation that was provided for them. They rejected the good news God had for them: A Savior who brings good tidings of great joy which should be to all the people.
The scripture, in romans 4, communicates the idea that faith is one thing and works are another. I'm referring to "to him that worked not, but believeth..." So the leading point of your post is disputed.
I respectfully disagree. Faith is not something we do. It’s something we either have, or don’t have. Prime example. I have FAITH that my bed is going to support my weight when I go to bed tonight. I have FAITH that my alarm is going to wake me up the next day after I set it. I have FAITH that my car will start after I turn the key. Just the same, I have FAITH that Jesus died for the sins of every man, woman, and child on planet Earth, and offers the free gift of Salvation to those who genuinely put their FAITH in Him alone.
This will go on forever, it depends on how high your view of God is, on the one hand you have open theism and on the other Calvinism, if you want to be consistent you can only be either😏
I'm glad he's talking about this. He's misunderstanding what calvinists are saying. I'll clarify. If faith is given to you, it's not a work. It's what Paul describes. If faith is something you DO, it's a [say it with me] WORK. Works are things you do. Faith is something you have. He said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted to him by the Father.” John 6:65 CSB Thank you for posting your fundamental misunderstanding of theology. I'm glad I could clear this up for you.
Exposit this passage, phrase by phrase. For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift - not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do. Ephesians 2:8-10
And thank you for posting a reaffirmation of the exact Calvinist confusion I'm arguing for in this video. You said... "If faith is something you DO, it's a [say it with me] WORK." Yes. Exactly. Tom, that is my point. You belief that the nature of what faith is, and the expression of it, if we express it, it is equivalent to the "good works" that Paul says we are not saved by. Of course you think it's something God does, and therefore it's not a work. But honestly, that is a bit beside the point and even perhaps a bit of question begging. The point is that you think the expression of faith on our part is one and the same as the sort of good works that Paul repudiates throughout his epistles. It is difficult to express just how deeply Calvinists fundamentally misunderstand some of the most repeated and obvious teachings of Paul concerning the contrast of faith and works. Please note, repeatedly Paul contrasts salvation by works or faith... not salvation by works or regeneration. Consider Romans 3:21... "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it- 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe." So Paul is setting aside righteousness "by the law" because of our inability to be made righteous by law, and pointing to another way that is now being revealed. Faith. In your estimation then, Paul has argued against one way of righteousness that is impossible (law/works) only to then present us with another way of righteousness that is equally impossible (faith). Why did Paul not point to "regeneration" or "effectual calling" here? Why would he reject one way of righteousness that we cannot perform in our flesh (works) and then set up another one that we also cannot do in our flesh (faith)? I don't that I'm going to convince you of anything here. But, I would challenge you in saying that I think there are many things here you have considered and deep misunderstandings of the nature of what faith is.
@GreatLightStudios no. Sorry. You misunderstood. If you choose to believe, then you've done something. That's a verb. Works are things you do. Also a verb. Calvinists argue that faith is a noun, as in something you have. Your confusion is that when we point out that you claim we choose to believe, that MAKES it a verb. That's what proponents of your position can't seem to wrap your head around. Logically and grammatically your position makes no sense. A simplification of your position is to say, I don't do anything to be saved. I just do this to be saved. Think it through. I'm dead right. Exposit ephesians 2:8-10. By grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is a gift from God. What is this? Faith. You use the word this to describe something adjacent. Example, I'm typing on THIS phone. In THIS passage, it's not talking about salvation. Salvation is not the adjacent idea. Also, it's in verb form in the sentence anyways. This also explains why, in this passage, Paul talks about predestination. Saying our WORKS (things we do) were prepared for us. Meaning our future actions are laid out ahead of us. As a matter of fact, Ephesians 1-2 are a definitive essay on reformed theology. Calvin didn't invent it. He's just simply saying what the Bible says. It's straight forward, incontrovertible and unconfusing. That is, of course, unless your idol is your own sovereignty.
@@GreatLightStudios it's all good. Leighton Flowers doesn't like to exposit scripture either. I realize it's detrimental to your position to read more than 1 or 2 consecutive verses. No biggie. It's just the living word of God.
@@tomanderson6233 I do not think you understand what Paul had in mind when he repudiated works. Works aren't just anything we "do" or else taking a dump in the toilet on Sunday morning would be a work. Paul had in mind a specific category of "doing" when he talked about works. That is... anything done in our own power and energies to attempt to achieve righteousness on our own. Any effort made independently from God to fulfill the demands of the law. "works" You continue to put faith into that same category and by so doing continue to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of what faith is... I'll point back to what I already said... "So Paul is setting aside righteousness "by the law" because of our inability to be made righteous by law, and pointing to another way that is now being revealed. Faith. In your estimation then, Paul has argued against one way of righteousness that is impossible (law/works) only to then present us with another way of righteousness that is equally impossible (faith). Why did Paul not point to "regeneration" or "effectual calling" here? Why would he reject one way of righteousness that we cannot perform in our flesh (works) and then set up another one that we also cannot do in our flesh (faith)?"
Faith is a gift from God, just as life is a gift from God. Everyone gets these gifts. You can waste both your faith and you life away on false idols. God calls all men to put his faith on Christ. Calvinists doesn't seem to get this
Calvinists, listen up before you face palm and bemoan our supposed "misunderstanding." We actually do understand that you don't mean to call Faith a Work, as if it's some external action that merits something. What you don't actually understand is that it is irrelevant. Biblically speaking, the way the bible defines a work isn't merely to say it's external, but to say one can boast about it. Because you insist Faith is an action one can boast over, even with the caveat that is an internal "action," you do mke it a work. It isn't whether it's internal or external, a physical action or mental action, it is the insiatance that you can boast about it, that categorises it as a work when you insist on this. No. You cannot boast that you believed. You know why? Because if it isn't a supernatural ability only granted to some, and in fact anyone and everyone can do it, then it isn't anything to boast about. And more importantly, it ISN'T the fact you believed that saved you, but WHO you believed in! The only reason your stinking Faith did anything is because it was Jesus you put your Faith in, the guy who died for your sins and fulfilled all righteousness. Boast in Jesus.
You don't understand the causal hierarchies in theology. When Jesus said to the woman at Mk 5:34 "your faith" has healed you, He was simply revealing/instantiating the full extent of the grace of God, viz, that although it was actually the work of the Holy Spirit in the woman that constituted her faith, the woman was nevertheless attributed with that work/faith, for she was (part of) the Bride of Christ, and we know that "the woman is the glory of the man" and indeed "joint heir" with Her Husband. Commensurately, we read in scripture that at judgement day "every man [(in Christ)] shall have praise from God" (1 Cor 4:4-8). That is, the grace we have received consists not merely of forgiveness, but much much more, and namely, that God praises us for what He has done in us! That's how far grace goes! No wonder then that Zechariah said: "What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain. Then he will bring forth the capstone accompanied by shouts of ‘Grace, grace to it!’ ” (Zech 4:7.) So unfortunately you (the presenter in this clip) are attempting to appraise the things of God with the natural mind rather than in and by the Holy Ghost. Just because the Holy Ghost dwells in you this does not mean you are anointed to teach.
This is from Calvin Don’t misuse his name. “Dearly beloved brethren we must not be amazed if the article of the everlasting predestination to God, be so assaulted and fought against by Satan’s maintainers, seeing it is the foundation of our salvation, and also serveth for the better magnifying of the free goodness of God towards us. On the other side those Dogs which bark against it thinking to have a good and favorable cause are therein more hardy: as in very truth there is nothing more contrary to man’s understanding, than to place the cause of our salvation in the good will of God, in saying, that it belongeth to him alone to choose us: without finding of anything in us wherefore he should choose us: and He hath chosen us, TO GIVE US FAITH through which we should be justified.”[ John Calvin, Sermon on Election and Reprobation, in The Comprehensive John Calvin Collection (Ages Digital Library, 1998), 225.] Thus, Calvinists cannot be said to be “extreme” for holding that faith is the gift of God and nothing to do with us producing it with a supposed free will, It should be obvious.
Thanks for your response... if I'm understanding you correctly it seems as if you are saying that indeed faith comes from the Lord and is combined with our faith? I do find it interesting the many passages that talk about your faith in contrast to passages about righteousness. If that is your position I would not agree that I bring anything to the table other than my sin. Could you not boast about the faith you mustered?
Why don't you quote a reputable Calvinist who has remotely suggested that a person's faith is not their faith, but that it is God who is believing for them or that faith is meritorious?
Read John 4:46-53. It explains all of this clearly. Jesus tells a man he will only believe if he sees a miracle (v 48); however, the man believes Jesus when he says his son will live (v 50). Jesus then performs the miracle, and the man (as well as his family) truly believes in Jesus (v 53). Was the belief in Jesus the result of the man's faith or of Jesus' miracle? Your answer to this determines where you believe saving faith originates: God or man.
"Calvinism" rejects making faith a work. So, if anyone attempts to make faith a work, "Calvinism" rejects doing that, simply because Scripture doesn't make it a work. Jesus Christ is the Author of our faith, which is a gift.
Calvin did reject that faith was a work. He was wrong. It is clearly something we do and are commanded to do (see John 6:29, and 1 John 3:23). Luther was right: “The first and highest, the most precious of all good works is faith in Christ…” (Luther ~ Treatise on Good Works) It is of course also a gift… as are all our good works.
@@munen-muso - Faith is a work (John 6:29). It is something that we do. It is also a gift (1 Corinthians 12:9, Romans 12:3, Galatians 5:22, Philippians 1:29, Ephesians 2:8-10).
@@brentonstanfield5198 Thank you for your reply. I think that we both would agree that context is everything, and the context of ANYTHING written in the Bible, *is the Bible, and not the words of man.* With that said, forgive my lengthy reply, but unfortunately you opened up with 6 references. So, faith is a belief that is proved, shown, or seen, etc., i.e., by what we do. Just as with Christ's works, as he mentioned in John 6.26, shows, or proves, who he is and where he comes from. This is so they believe him and his words, e.g., Christ says to believe him *because of his works* in John 14.11 With 1 Cor. 12.9, this is not talking about faith for salvation, like you are talking about, because Paul is speaking about "diversities of gifts" in v.4, and then in v.7 he writes, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." So, this is about what is being "manifested," or shown. As in Hebrews 11.1 (Now faith is the *substance* of things hoped for, the *evidence* of things not seen.) In v.8-10, you have different gifts given to different people, e.g., “to one it is given..., to another..., to another..., to another faith..., to another..., to another..., to another..., to another..., to another...” Paul is saying these are displays of faith, otherwise he would say, “but to everyone is given faith.” However, he doesn’t say that. Similarly in Romans 12.3 it speaks of measures of faith. This to cannot be speaking of faith for salvation, because how much faith does one need to be saved? Does it vary? This is why scripture interprets scripture, e.g., in Jeremiah 51.13 it speaks of the “measure of thy covetousness.” This is clearly speaking of God giving fair payment, i.e., judgment for their covetousness. God is not giving them covetousness, but is exacting justice for the equitable amount. Or, consider how, in Luke 17.5-6, “the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.” This means that faithful actions are clearly connected to one’s level of belief, trust, and faithfulness. Just as in Matt. 14.29-31. When Peter walked on water, but was afraid of the wind, and began to sink, Christ said, “oh ye of little faith.” Does that mean Peter isn’t saved? His faith varied in an instant. This is because it is connected to his belief. Our actions simply display our beliefs and values. This is the same for Galatians 5.22. More explicitly, the Spirit follows our belief, i.e., our faith. As Ephesians 1:13 says that, “*after that ye heard* the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *after that ye believed,* ye were sealed with that holy Spirit.” Likewise in Romans 1.16 Paul says, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation *to every one that believeth;* to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Philippians 1.29 is better explained with v.25-28, because it shows Paul encouraging the Philippians to rejoice and not be afraid because of their belief in Christ, while at the same time expecting to be persecuted because of belief in Christ. “…*for your furtherance and joy of faith; That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ* … *in nothing terrified by your adversaries* Ephesians 2.8-10 is actually the easiest to explain and I hoping this what would be referenced, (as I just don’t have time for this kind of thing). Anyway, Grace is the gift man, not faith, but Grace, i.e., Christ’s atonement. See Romans 5.15-18 Okay, please consider that if God judges people by making them consciously suffer for ETERNITY for something God LITERALLY made them do, it would not be compatible with God’s revealed character; e.g., not only would it make God unjust, but it also LITERALLY makes him evil, (because it would all have been his choice), and a liar (as God is Light, Life, and Love) however the actions just described contradict what we know about God’s character. Finally, I would conclude with the fact the “freewill” is a Bible word. Have a nice day! 🙂
Why must you continue to claim we believe what we do not believe at all? We do not think that when we believe, it is not our faith but God's. No Calvinist believes that I and I think you know that.
What kind of father would adopt a child and leave him to feel that he's not really going to be kept in the family? What kind of father would in quotes, kick you out of the family and make you understand that someday he would kick you out of the family if all the circumstances don't line up by the time your life is over. What kind of father? Well, the Bible is clear that our birth into the family of God is Not by our choice and yet, there are verses that by the kind of LOGIC that Armenians invariably use to counter Romans 8 and 9 (I won't say Calvinism which came along 1500 years later but which superficial Armenians would like to believe sprang out of nowhere- It's pretty easy to shoot down that straw man After all) might imply that arminianism is true. Let them both stand! They are both true but they don't contradict the fact that we are placed in the family of God by an adopting father who just like he did all the way through the scriptures, chooses one to do this and another to do that and that without him choosing you or me, our vileness, our falleness, our running from God- just like Adam and Eve in the garden- would forever prevent us from wanting to join that family were it not for GOD'S overarching will, and thank God for that. We should thank God for that ie those of us who are saved! God hardens some and he extends Mercy to some, none of us would either do it that way or make this story up. But, it's in the Bible and that's our duty to believe. Why is that so hard? The Fallen nature of man who wants to be on the throne and worships the concept of Man's Free Will which is not to be found anywhere in the scripture but has been repeated so many times that it has come to replace foundational Christianity which has believed from all time- from Romans and from John 1, 1 Corinthians 1:26-29*** and many other passages that salvation, faith, adoption are wonderful gifts from a sovereign God!!
If by saying "your faith" you mean "your autonomous faith-act" then how do we understand the need for, and presence of, the remnant according to the election of grace in Romans 9-11??? Paul says we would be as Sodom and Gomorrah if it had not been for a remnant preserved by God. A focus on man's autonomous faith-choice is all fine and dandy until there's no one believing, then what? Does God choose a remnant, therefore they believe. Or, does God choose to have a remnant, and it just so happens he finds believers?
I can't help but feel that you are making significant assumptions about what "remnant" must mean. God chose a remnant. Why do you assume that God must have unconditionally elected certain people to be included in this "remnant" as you seem to be suggesting? Who is to say that there was not a "remnant" of faithful Jewish believers who had not bowed their knee to Baal, and God chose them? In fact... that is precisely how the remnant is described... "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” God doesn't say... "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who were as equally unbelieving and rebellious as the rest but I effectually called them to not bow the knee to Baal." The information we are given is that God selected 7,000 people, and the only information we are given about who these people are is that they were those who had not bowed a knee to Baal but had remained faithful to God. To me, this is no different than the pattern we see throughout the entirety of scripture. God saves believers. He saves those who believe/trust. The remnant was a remnant of believing Jews who had not given themselves over to idolatry.
@@GreatLightStudios so, is it God wanted 9,000 maybe but he only found 7,000? Why didn't he find none? Also, notice the order - "I have reserved for myself......who have not bowed the knee...".
Predestination means God knew he would call you to become a Christian before you were born that's all , and you do not have to take your calling . People not called are not being judged for salvation they will get their chance when resurrected
I will try to explain the difference in the two positions as I see it. When it comes to salvation what is the reason a person is saved. The bible that I read says it is by His doing you are in Christ Jesus. How so ? God predestined the person to be conformed into the image of Christ, He elects that person, He calls that person, by God's grace that person is giving the faith to respond to the Gospel, and that person is regenerated by the Spirit. So if you were to ask me, why should God let you into His heaven? I would say that after I heard the gospel God the Spirit convicted me of my sin, He brought me to repentance, He changed me, He made the words of the Bible to come alive and I believed the Gospel of Jesus. I believed only because of God's mercy on me, it is by His doing that I am in Christ Jesus. Is that what you believe? That is not what you teach. You are saying that after you hear the gospel you believe because of your own faith. It is by your doing that you are in Christ Jesus. It is your faith, your free will, your choosing. So at the end of the day if you were asked why God should let you into His heaven? What is your answer. If you are consistent with what you have been teaching, isn't it your free will, choice, and your faith that you brought up inside your self. While the gospel is foolishness to the other people but not you. You over came by your doing. That is what the difference seems to be.
"Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven." Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. How can they believe if they have not heard? Does the 1st century resident of Jerusalem have the same ability to believe in Jesus as the 1st century tribesman in the Amazon? How is that not election?
Many tribes have heard the Gospel. Many tribes now have cell phones and computers where the Gospel can be found. The Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the World and then the end come. This does not prove God chooses eternal destinies. Why did Jesus tell his disciples it’s hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God?
@@controlclerk Righteousness and Justice is the foundation of His Throne. Romans 1, 2 states that God has made it clear that His is through Creation and Conscience. If people in the tribe refuse to worship creation, but the God of creation it’s possible that God takes that into account. When Gentiles do what is in the Law, they become a law unto themselves. We are not sure how God judges those who have not heard the Gospel.I don’t really see things as fair, or unfair, but what has God chosen to reveal in His Word.
@@controlclerk I am saying God throughout time is just. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and died for the Whole including those you mention. I’m quoting Romans 1,2. Babies go to heaven because they have never sinned and because they still needed a Savior Jesus Christ. If someone who has never heard the Gospel, and knew that there was God who created the Son and refused to bow down to the sun as God, and was ostracized or killed for that, I think he was living with the light he had, and God would judge him accordingly. Read Romans 1 and 2 and see what you think. Jesus did die for that person.
Your argument nearing the 3:40 mark is self defeating. Let's replace "faith" with "grace". Reminding ourselves that grace is a gift from God, we are in possession of such a thing, but not the genesis. This is stated by Paul in 1 CORINTHIANS 15:10. Your argument that faith is a self- actualized possession is the same as saying grace, because it's within us, moves us, guides us, and motivates us is the same theological "argument". Will you say the same of grace as you do faith? Or will the response, aside from deafening silence, be "oh, that's different..."
This begins with a competent refutation of Hyper-Calvinism. But, a total mischaracterization of the sovereignty of God in salvation (Calvinism). A very poor interpretation of faith passages that betrays an under-developed hermeneutic. Very bad exegesis of Scripture. I notice the brother quotes “Calvinists.” Which Calvinists? To make these statements about Calvinists without crediting the statements to an individual is entirely irresponsible. Also, I noticed, in quoting Romans 9, he steered clear of verses 14-24. Classic case of proof-texting. See also John 6:44; Philippians 1:29; 2 Peter 1:1, in addition to Ephesians 1:3-15, etc.
Why non-Calvinists are wrong about faith. Faith is not a prerequisite that God first looks for in someone before He will save them, after all, while the Scriptures say that we are saved “by,” and “through” faith, they never say that we are saved “because” of our faith. Faith is not even something that those outside of Christ who do not walk according to the Spirit can have (Romans 8:7); in fact, *the wicked do not even have the right to covenant with God* (Psalm 50:16) - this passage alone is an insurmountable obstacle for those who insist that faith must precede regeneration, they simply do not have the right. Therefore faith is something that must be received from God (2 Peter 1:1). Salvation is “because” of the work of Christ and given to certain individuals by the grace of God, and “through” the means of faith, but this faith is not something that is wrought in us by our own doing, it is the effect and definite result of His work in us (John 6:29, Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6); it is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) that is the means through which man is sanctified (Acts 26:18); this sanctification is first positional - whereby we are first set apart as holy (Ephesians 2:5-6, Colossians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 12:27, 1 Peter 2:9, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Romans 6:2, 2 Peter 1:4), then it is progressive - whereby, over time we are saved from the practice and power of sin through an increase in holy living (1 Peter 1:15-16, Ephesians 2:10, Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:18, John 17:17), and then it is final - when in glory we are finally saved from the presence of sin (1 John 3:2). It is God’s grace that saves us, and He produces faith in us that sanctifies us (Philippians 2:13). This sanctifying grace of faith, once God has given an individual the Spirit of wisdom and revelation to enlighten his eyes (Ephesians 1:17-20), is given by God through the ordinary means of the gospel (Ephesians 1:13, Romans 10:17), and is what permits an individual to submit himself to God and to desire to do so (Cf. Genesis 15:6, Acts 26:12-23); the righteousness of Christ is then imputed to him (Romans 4:9-25), and the Holy Spirit secures and preserves his eternal salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14) - this is the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5). For more information, see: ruclips.net/video/Z88gj-AW04A/видео.html
You truly need to make an effort to understand what Calvinists believe. I don't know of anyone who believes that a believer's faith is not their own. God does not believe for anyone. Additionally, I don't know of anyone who believes that if a person could produce faith apart from God's enabling, that faith would be meritorious. What we do believe is that if Jesus accomplished nothing more for those who will be justified through faith than for those who will perish in unbelief, His redemptive work in itself could not, in itself, have saved anyone. If it didn't save everyone for whom it was offered, it didn't save anyone for whom it was offered. In that case, it must be the sinner's free will decision that activates or effectuates Jesus' redemptive work. The difference in our views is that you believe His redemptive work merely made salvation a possibility that must be actuated by the sinner's free will decision and we believe His redemptive work secured the salvation of a multitude that no one can number and that the salvation once accomplished is applied through faith.
God predestines, He calls, He justifies, he glorifies…Where exactly is our part in that? Is God’s predestination just a hope? The scriptures are clear. God elects us. We do not elect him.
Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatest of His Power towards US who believe, according to the working of His Mighty Power! ............. Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have access with confidence by "The Faith Of Him........ Colossians 2:12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through "The Faith Of The Operation Of God ". .Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the Author and the finisher of Our Faith. It is only the disobedient proud who feel that their saving faith is of themselves! These people are speaking of themselves which is contrary to The Spirit Of Truth!
@aletheia8054 That's right Brother! The do not even come close to rightly dividing The Word Of Truth! It is impossible To rightly divide The Word Of Truth upon the wresting of the many scriptures from Genesis to Revelations!
For me faith is something we should try avoid but sometimes we do not have the knowledge to avoid it. “Faith means not wanting to know what is true.” -Friedrich Nietzsche. “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.” -Mark Twain
FAITH is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for the EVIDENCE of things unseen. - The author of Hebrews- Your sources are trumped by the word of God. If I were you, I would put my faith in that and repent. God bless.
Jordan, You need to spend more time reading or listening to what Calvinists actually believe and stop trying to burn straw men. What we believe about your view is that if you are right, the redemptive work of Christ did not secure anyone's salvation. In your view, what effectuates salvation is not God's work of creation, birth, circumcision of the heart, heart transplant, resurrection, deliverance from bondage in a dungeon, etc. but your unaided libertarian free will decision. If that were true, it would be your faith that secured your salvation by uniting you to Christ. That doesn't mean that we think you are saying that faith is meritorious. What you are saying is that you are the one who distinguished yourself from other sinners by making a proper choice. If that were the case, you would have a basis for boasting before God. Paul addressed this issue in 1 Cor. 1:29-31. It is of HIM that you are in Christ Jesus. . . "Who makes you differ from another, and what do you have that you did not receive, NOW if you received it [what makes you different from other sinners], why do you boast as if you did not receive it" (1 Cor. 4:7).
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A Critical Error With Calvinism Part 1: ruclips.net/video/ygePIgd7DJU/видео.html
A Critical Error With Calvinism Part 2: ruclips.net/video/A23Mc_eqWu8/видео.html
Yes Jordan. These Calvinists I see in the comments, if they were the ones to write the Bible, would NEVER DREAM of ever writing the things the actual Bible says
Haha, very true & very profoundly stated.
Great video
The Bible is the Inspired Word of God I would specially not trust Jordan from the Great darkness Studio. But for that mater multitudes can not even read it, for example Jordan, let us not talk about write it.
@@MariusVanWoerdenHe reads multiple verses out of it, in context, in every episode.
@@MariusVanWoerdenrepent
Which is baffling that calvinists always go to that one verse in Romans which they interpret as faith is given as a gift, while ignoring a plethora of verses where faith is specifically to the beliver and not a gift .
Faith to the believer? What is a believer need faith for? They already have it that’s what makes them a believer.
And you’re the one that said, it’s important to understand pistis and pistuon .
Go figure .
You're right brother, this shouldn't even be a conversation that's still taking place amongst those who have actually read the Bible. It simply boils down to whether one reads and accepts what the texts actually say .
I just happened upon this video. I'm not a Calvinist, so I am not trying to defend their view on anything here. But here is what I am responding to: " . . . those who have actually read the Bible."
Every single person I have ever tried to have a serious conversation about theological things reads their Bible, and yet we still disagree on some things. A few of them have done what this quote does, self-righteously shut down the conversation by declearing that their point of view is clear to those who read their Bible. This implies one of two things: Some people cannot read. Those that can read, but still cling to their disagreement are people intentionally disobeying God.
I am so looking forward to the day when Revelation 21:1-4 is fulfilled.
@jamesfreeman8247 you bring a false dichotomy because that's not the only two choices . There,s a few other choices, but the main one I had in mind when making that true statement was there are those who are convinced what tge Bible says before they open the book because of doctrinal systematic indoctrination or something grandpa told them or whatever . With so much outside influence its hard sometimes for folks to actually just realize and accept what tge texts are saying . You see right here you tried to built you're own dichotomy of choices giving all possible examples and I'm sure you weren't trying to be dishonest but you were anyway on accident. It's the same when folks go to read scripture, they've been taught the texts cam only mean this or that , which is usually not even the case ..
GOD bless you
Also , I wasn't referring to every subject in scripture, I was simply referring to the faith is not a work aspect of it if you'll notice , but I appreciate the fact that you took the time to judge my effoerts and tried correct me . I'm sure it was our of love .
GOD bless
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421
"you bring a false dichotomy . . . There,s a few other choices"
I think I missed where you gave me the other choices? I think you are giving people the benefit of the doubt that they are not intentionally disobeying God, but from what I can tell, your main point was that people cannot read.
Correcting in love? That strikes me as harsher than intended term. I simply wanted to suggest that God-fearing people could come to a difference of opinion over a passage (or two) of Scripture.
@@jamesfreeman8247 I see the problem now . The fact that you came to the conclusion that I was claiming people couldn't read is very telling . I explained what I meant by that statement in my reply to you . Then your remark about the correction in love thing is very telling about where you're at as well . If I hurt your feelings, I humbly ask your forgiveness.
GOD bless
What a great video in response to the Calvinist who says, "well, the righteousness that God gives us is our own." Wrong. How astute of you to logically drill down this narrative to show that they're "proof" wasn't well thought out and is wrong. There was everything to love about this video! Keep up the good work and your ministry to the body of Christ.
Who in the world reformed or calvinist would EVER say that the righteousness that God gives us is our own!? That is outright blasphemous.
@@mikegreene9137Mike green with disdain that your chosen system is being exposed.
@@truthseeker5698 lol... no with answering outright silliness and misrepresentations.
3:58 -- Correct. Faith, without their doctrine of Irresistible Grace, does not save in Calvinism.
This is why they label the faith of Christians who reject Calvinism, as a "Work", a "non-salvific" faith that does not save.
Calvinists, such as John Piper put themselves in place of God and use scare tactics asking rhetorical questions such as "WHY did you believe when others didn't?" to shift salvation from "faith" to CAUSATION of faith.
In other words, the 'CAUSATION of faith' is what saves & is pleasing to God, NOT faith in God itself, and that 'CAUSATION of faith', is Calvinisms doctrine of "Irresistible Grace" designated only for Gods "Elect".
👏🎯
It’s such a Satanic doctrine it’s crazy. Completely MANmade
If faith is a gift, then it’s either freely received or freely not received. That’s how gift reception works.
Just gave someone this analogy today 👏
Great video. Unfortunately, the fundamental misunderstanding of faith/believe, pistis/pisteuo is an issue broader than Calvinism, alone.
Love the passages... meaning who are the people who are the true carriers of "Sola Escritura?" meaning Only Scripture, are definitely not the Calvinist. Not the late RC Sprouls, not Johm MacArthur, not John Piper, definitely not Paul the destroyer of salvation Washer. I've had dozens of talks with families that have been deceived by John MacArthur, so much so they will read Gods Word, tell me they believe it but that I am interpreting it wrong. Clear concise scriptures. Not vague or questionable scriptures. Good work, Jason keep it up.
You need to leave Paul Washer alone....that man is evangelizing to lost souls and doesn't need your interference. He is probably having to go behind and fix a lot of the false converts that today's modern decisionism creates in droves filling people with deceived assurance who have NEVER been born again and who thanks to false preaching don't see their need for it.
I agree these are deceivers. Can you give me some examples of what those MacArthur fans say scripture wise?
@Drew32296 what do want to know? They preach God's word...all of it.
To make it easier: Dad: Son, I will take you to Disneyland. I will drive you there, pay for gas, food, and the tickets and hotel. You have to pay me nothing, just come with me and enjoy. Do you want to go? Son (believing his dad is telling the truth): Yes, father. Calvinists: That son earned that trip by saying yes and stole some of his dad's glory! .................. I agree, this is elementary stuff and the bible debates faith vs works over and over. They are never the same and always contrasted. Calvinists listen to "learned" men and then run out and try to convince everyone else they are right because John MacArthur says so, even when the bible says differently. Did you know that John Piper teaches that election is unconditional but glorification is not? Pay attention, they are completely works-based pastors. Saying that by submitting fully we somehow "activate" our salvation. If we have to do one thing, then Christ didn't do everything.
Actually the son would have to go unless dad got a baby sitter or left him with family. Otherwise that would be child abandonment...unless the child is already old enough to stay on his own in which case he is also old enough to get his own ticket...get a job Jr. and quit mooching off dad!
@@mikegreene9137 What an odd response. So we earn our own salvation and don't mooch grace off God? I am confused. Unless this is just some joke? I might be dense.
@freeguy7628 haha... no, I was just making a silly response to your analogy. Besides why would God want to bring us to Disneyland? Have you seen that immoral cesspool lately?
05:24 this is a really good point against Calvinism! Good observation!
Very Thoughtful, Keep Going Brother !
Thank you!
Great, clear teaching! Saw you on Leighton Flowers' channel. Just subscribed to YOUR channel. 👍🏻
Thank you very much! I'm glad to have you here :)
Another wonderful presentation! I especially liked the comparison of the phrase, "our faith" in contrast to "our righteousness."
Thank you!
Yes Jordan, those that believe scripture & haven't been indoctrinated into an extra biblical system can see that. False teachings are from the Devil "Hath God indeed said". When you succumb to them you are wilfully blinded in part.
Please read what John Murray, [without controversy a thoroughgoing Calvinist] wrote, "Regeneration is a work of God and of God alone. But faith is not the act of God; it is not God who believes in Christ for salvation, it is the sinner. It is by God's grace that a person is able to believe, but faith is an activity on the part of the person and of him alone" (Redemption: Accomplished and Applied, 1955, 106).
My experience from many decades of practicing God’s Holy Word and participating in various church bodies has disciplined me concerning overemphasis on a particular collection of scripture. Such as the scriptures that that seem to support the prosperity Gospel but pervert truth. Calvinism as displayed in the Tulip, ultimately puts God to the test. The doctrine of sovereignty is sound but it doesn’t make free will irrelevant or perfunctory. We have been given sovereign commands. We are urged to be reconciled not resigned to fate. Most Calvinist understand and readily accept the personal burden of finding right knowledge, but knowing Christ Himself points towards a personal response. Not as a “so called work” but as a fruit of truth! Beloved test the spirits! Are you on fire with love for your brother, or for more knowledge. If we spent as much time trying to be like Jesus as many do studying John Calvin interpretations we would see revival for ourselves and those we are privileged to love. Humility and Holiness - YES!!!!, tulip?, I kindly say “No thank you!”
Right!
Christ righteousness is imputed to believers. It's never imparted to us.
🎯🎯 ... Very well done Jordan... just imagine, if only you had been there to remind Augustine of these things before he made that fatal misstep in accepting Pelagius' Red Herring that his faith was indeed a work.... just think how many lives could have been spared the destruction of the Doctrines of Grace.🙏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Oh, but faith is indeed work, my good man. Christ Himself made no secret of it.👇👇👇
"Jesus told them, “This is THE ONLY WORK GOD WANTS FROM YOU: BELIEVE in the one He has sent.”" (John 6:29 NLT).
@@signposts6189 Context is everything... Read the whole chapter, don't pull out a single verse because it has the "lucky" word you're searching for to try and establish some element of doctrine. Jesus had just fed the 5000, he met the disciples across the water the next day. The crowd followed him seeking him to 'work' more miracles. He discouraged them from seeking these "signs" which was the habitual way of the Jews since coming out of Egypt. He has even said in Matthew "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign," Here he juxtaposed the physical manifestations (demonstrable works) they required of him with the rhetorical,(maybe even sarcastic) "work" of simply believing just as Abraham did, which is not work as Paul clearly points out .. (lest any man should boast). Abraham's belief was never called "work" and did not 'merit' anything. But God chose to count it as righteousness, which further demonstrated God's desire for man to believe in him.
Jesus then spoke in very specific language (cannibalism) to essentially get them to go away. Because the time for him to call all unto himself was not to come until after his death and resurrection, and he was not announcing who he was with a loudspeaker at that moment in time. He did not want these people following him... they would be needed soon to cry "crucify him". (But many of these same ones will later repent and believe at Pentecost).
At the end of Jn.6, it is confirmed in vs.66"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." He even acknowledged he had chosen the 12 and even one of them was a (devil/judas) would betray him.
Lol...AS IF Jordan was anywhere near Augustine in his biblical knowledge. Yall do show your arrogance and naivete...lol
@@mikegreene9137 I do know that Augustine knew literally nothing of Hebrew or Greek and essentially relied only on the Latin Vulgate. And that in his effort to 'win' the argument with Pelagius he literally contradicted about 20yrs of his own Christian teaching against his previous 10yrs as a practicing Manichaean Gnostic.
The historical record is clear. Augustine went back in time to blow the dust off his determinist roots and use the very arguments he had abandoned as heresy after his conversion to Christianity. And he tied his leg to them so securely his pride would never allow him to get free of his own mistake.
@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT you are flat out wrong about that and the biblical doctrines pertaining to God's sovereignty and providence and predestination have NOTHING to do with ANY form of gnosticism. They are COMPLETELY different and those that make such statements should be embarrassed for trying to defame Augustine just to try to establish their own traditions. And I know he wasn't perfect in all his doctrines (most of us probably aren't) and he wasn't infallible but he was a very wise and intelligent man of the faith and did an outstanding job of exposing Pelagius as the heretic that he was. Many of you play far too close with Rome and also Pelagius and that is why I think yall attack Augustine the way you do. God bless
Please keep being repetitive!!! Great video on Gods clear understanding and message of what He desires from us!!
Will do! Thanks Jason!
Cerca :55, you need a quote from a Calvinists that suggest that we believe if we initiate the act of faith "we are adding our righteousness to salvation." That is not what I believe, and I don't know of any Calvinists who believes that. Faith is not righteousness. The question is whether it is God who is the ultimate arbiter who determines who will be saved or is it the sinner? Given your view, it cannot be the redemptive work of Christ, in itself, that secures anyone's salvation. If it did not secure the salvation of everyone for whom it was offered, it could not have secured anyone's salvation. Something must be added to it to render it effective. In your view, that something is the sinner's libertarian free will decision. Our view is that the work of Christ, in itself, secured the salvation of a multitude that no one can number and that work must be applied by God's call. It is of Him, that we are in Christ (1 Cor. 1:30), not of us. That is not speaking about the accomplishment of salvation but about the application of the redemptive work of Christ once for all accomplished.
This is brilliant! We believe and trust in His righteousness, our faith is the evidence that we did this, us the believer. When we agree with the truth, it’s not a work. Our agreement doesn’t add, it’s the vehicle that we were chosen by. All who believe may come! ”But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,“ II Thessalonians 2:13
This is so basic. The idea that we choose or decide to put our faith in Christ, is most definately not adding to salvation and faith is not a work that earns salvation
This is fact not opinion.
How do I know? Because nowhere in the Bible is faith described to us in the way a calvinist describes it. This is a doctrine that was invented, and then, having invented it, they had to justify it.
For example: R.C.Sproul said 'Regeneration preceeds faith.' A common calvinist comment. Show that to me. The Bible never says that. Never.
The argument that faith coming from us creates a system wherein we gain our own salvation is rather narrow-minded, or unimaginative. As A.W. Tozer points out, what if that is exactly the system which God set up from the beginning? We have to have faith in order to be saved. We have to respond to God's call, in whatever form He chooses to call us (Nature [see Romans 1], the Law, the Prophets, Jesus' incarnation, the Holy Spirit, direct communication, etc.). We still get not credit for the saving, or the forgiving, just as the Prodigal got on credit for the saving, but he DID have to recognize his situation and turn from it and go back to his Father. To say that faith coming from us makes us part of our own saving assumes that God did not set up this as the system in the first place, which is the Calvinist assumption. I'm sure others could word all of this much better than I.
"...faith is not equivalent to doing righteousness".... you don't do righteousness, it's imputed.
Faith is a work.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 - “…constantly bearing in mind *your work of faith* and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father…”
2 Thessalonians 1:11 - “To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the *work of faith* with power…”
Faith IS a work, it’s just God’s work (John 6:29) that He has both authored and perfected (Hebrews 12:2), that man lives in to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure” (Philippians 2:12-13, cf. Ephesians 2:10).
We keep having this discussion because "free willers" keep insisting on a narrative that is antagonistic to the scriptures.
Amen. It’s God’s work.
Free will = ignorance
@@aletheia8054DETERMINISM = BLASPHEMY
Is English your second language? He talking about the WORKS they were doing AS A RESULT OF THEIR FAITH!!!! 🤦♂️
Try CONTEXT!!!!!!! It’s not that hard!
@@johndisalvo6283. Faith is still a work of God.
@@aletheia8054. When you lust , is it God determining you to do it, or is it your FREE WILL?
It is not faith that saves but Christ who saves through faith.
Jordan -
Enjoyed the video. I suggest that faith is indeed a gift given to us by God (along with "life, breath, and everything else"), but, unlike God's righteousness or God's grace, it is uniquely "given away" to us - to manage, direct (toward Christ), nurture, strengthen-- or to shipwreck.
Faith is a gift from God, in the same category as life is a gift from God.
That's unbiblical but nice.
@@awesomefacepalm Good point. Both given to us with which to either glorify Him... or not.
@@daelinproudmore5068 Please let me know what is unbiblical so, if true, I can adjust my teaching. Thanks.
Keep up the excellent exposes. Before I watch the video, I want to suggest that Calvinism and its adherents seem to have a lot in common with the mystery religions of Hellenized Roman empire.
The selective and secretive rites and "tapping in" that are limited to an elite bunch...it all starts getting a little too human for me. I am not all in on this analogy, but it does seem to be in contravention of Christ's universal offer to all who would come.
Could faith be a gift of God placed in our care, but His gift of free will gives us the option as to where we place it or in whom? Meaning, the sufficiency, quality, genuineness, or truthfulness of that faith is never the question, but rather, the object of that faith. Many people in cults have genuine faith, but the object of the faith is insufficient to save. The faith isn’t deficient; the object is. Only Jesus is sufficient to save, hence we must choose to place our faith in Him.
Was Paul's faith given to him? No. But his eyes were opened so he could place his faith in the true God and believe in Christ. We are saved the same way.
We are not given our belief or our faith. The Bible does not teach that. We are given, by God ,an ability to see ourselves properly ( our need for a savior) and to see God properly ( the one who has provided that savior)
We are then, because of our faith, and Christs propitiation of our sins, we are clothed in Christs righteousness ( we have none of our own) .
You are right Jordan this is simple to understand.
I talked about this with my pastor 2 weeks ago and I thing he said was that proof texts are not always possible. You need to see the entire package and see what God has done throughout the Bible.
The Bible is written by God as a historic redemptive narrative. That is critical to understand so to get an accurate picture of what God is doing in time.
The Bible is full of verses that confirm we are covered by the righteousness of Christ alone and faith is NOT works.
Heb.11
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen
Have you read the verses leading up to that? And the whole chapter 11. Seems to me a lot of men doing things. Faith and works are not opposed to each other.
But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.
For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
"For yet a little while, [And] He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
Now the just shall live by faith; But if [anyone] draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. [Heb 10:32-39 NKJV]
Now!!!!!!!!!!!! faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen,
The rest of the chapter gives countless examples which Paul had no time to explain in great detail.
How would you interpret Romans 12:3 in light of this? Is not everyone assigned a measure of faith by God? Thank you!
I think many are confused by the definition of faith. I think the measure is what God has given us to be faithful to. Faith is also faithfulness. I like to think of those in the parable of the 1, 2 and 5 talents. To whom much is given much is required.
I am not sure how anyone gets through the Gospel of Matthew and define faith as something passive and as a mental ascent only.
We should love the scripture more than our confessions of faith when these are wrong. Let's search our hearts.
Calling faith works is like saying if you respond to “do you want a burger and fries?” Simply saying yes or no is work, when in fact you’re not making the food and you’re not picking up the food, you’re not even paying for it, you’re simply accepting or rejecting it. That’s not work, that’s faith. You can’t contrast faith with works if faith is works, there is no contrast at that point.
MY faith was granted to me by God.
prove it then. there are only 3 options
1. God chooses those who choose Him (the bible)
2. God chooses based on works (the law)
3. God draws names from a hat (calvinism)
of course the calvinist will vehemently deny that God arbitrarily chooses. But unless you KNOW on what basis He chooses, you can NEVER know if you are actually saved. you have no foundation
Thank you, Jordan!
As I understand it, faith is simply believing God. We complicate it too much, and not just the Calvinists. The word of Faith movement teaches that faith is a force and that our words and actions can tap into this force to create prosperity, healing, and other miracles, which is actually occult theology and witchcraft. Is there any surprise that our adversary would try to throw so much confusion around something so simple that is the narrow gate to salvation.
The problem should be resolvable by believing both. In other words, God gives us faith and it becomes our faith God gives us righteousness and it becomes our righteousness. Ephesians 2:8.9 should help people because it is a gift of God not because of works. There are only two positions. Either you by your brilliance, virtue, something else, merited your situation into saving Faith or its entirely a work of God. Then we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. If anyone out there wants to really read a beautiful and not just polemic about this topic, read ji Packers book knowing god- a Christian Classic that unfortunately has not been in the hands of every Christian.
(1Co 4:7) For who is making you to discriminate? Now what have you which you did not obtain? Now if you obtained it also, why are you boasting as though not obtaining?
(Heb 12:2) looking off to the Inaugurator and Perfecter of faith, Jesus, Who, for the joy lying before Him, endures a cross, despising the shame, besides is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
These two verses alone sum it up quite well.
Work or not If I can point to one thing I have which wasn't given to me, then I can boast as though not obtaining from anyone.
Secondly, Christ is the inaugurator and Perfecter of faith. There's just no way around that.
"Your righteousness," see Matthew 5:20, 6:1, 2 Corinthians 9:10.
As for the "sovereignty of God,"
In Ephesians 1:11, we see that God “works all things according to the counsel of His will.” This “all things,” according to verse 10 includes all things in the heavens and all things on the earth. The word translated into English as “work” is the transitive verb “ἐνεργέω” (energeo), which means “to effect;” since all “effects” must have a sufficient cause, this passage quite literally makes God the ultimate cause of all things in heaven and on earth. The same transitive verb construction is seen in Ephesians 1:19, 1 Corinthians 12:6, 11, Galatians 3:5, Philippians 2:13; see Thayer’s, pg. 215.
Correct. That’s where we get the word energy.
Mankind has been given the ability to trust and believe by God. This is faith. It can help us do many things in life, it's necessary to exist. Without it we couldn't walk out side or even eat. Fishermen understand this more than just about anybody whenever they cast their net...one more time. And Man often places his faith in many things which are not what they seem to be. But mans faith only reaches it's full potential when its rejoined with its original source...God.
Satan's goal is to undermine man's faith/trust in God. That is what his lie to Eve was all about by proposing the thought which says, "you can't trust God to love you ...personally". Calvinism simply perpetuates the same lie, especially in the heart of the Christian.
Well, God must not have given them enough ability, because most of them go to hell.
How to witness to a Calvinist ?
Faith is connected to works. Faith is what moves people to action/ or work. When Paul says works don't to lead to salvation, he's talking about works of the Mosaic Law. Works in connection with faith in Jesus will lead to salvation. We can't even manifest faith without work (see James 2:17-18).
So what do you do with Romans chapter 9! The whole chapter?
Luke 5 tells of a paralytic man healed by Jesus because of his friends' faith, not even his own. I find that so awesome!
You seriously need to read John Murray's "Redemption Accomplished and Applied," and interact with that instead of continuing to embarrassing yourself by attempting to disprove what no one believes.
When a person has faith, that means he/she has a fear of God, where that fear then informs their behavior. That’s why Paul says that righteousness had by faith:
Romans 9:30b-32a
…Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained righteousness - namely the righteousness that comes from faith. But Israel, pursuing the law for righteousness, has not achieved the righteousness of the law., Why is that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works.
If Calvinism were true then the Bible would be written totally different than it is. There would be no need for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden. John 3:16 would read, "For God so loved the elect that He predestined everyone to heaven or hell. And Abraham's Faith wouldn't be credited to him as righteousness, but God's Irresistible Grace would be shoved down Abraham's throat. The systematic theology of Calvinism or reformed theology complicates the simple Gospel message, and is unbiblical. This branch of theology turns God into a monster who arbitrarily picks people to go to heaven and people to go to hell when the Bible clearly teaches that God gives people a choice in the matter. You can accept or reject the good news of what Jesus has done. It's a choice. You can decide to repent and live a new life pleasing to God or you can reject such a lifestyle. You can even become a Christian and then deny the faith or be faithful until death. It's all a choice. Calvinist theologians will say that because of their made up doctrine of Total Depravity we are so dead (not just spiritually separated) that we can't even make a choice and that God has to choose for us, but that flies in the face of common sense and Scripture. Everyone is alive enough to pick out what they want for breakfast (in most cases) but when it comes to choosing God or rejecting Him, Calvinists believe that God forces us to make a choice because we are unable to. Calvinists go so far as to say that God actually ordains every act of evil and they completely leave out Satan. Calvinists sound more like Job's complaining friends because they constantly blame God for evil and leave out free will and demonic influence. One thing that really bothers me about Calvinism is they say God is glorified even when something evil happens and that it was His will. But the Bible teaches that Satan is the author of evil and people can make evil choices outside of God's will. I speak out about Calvinism because I think it's harmful to people mentally and spiritually.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 NIV
Jesus willingly paid the penalty for our sins (for the sins of the whole world) by being falsely accused, tortured and then executed on a Roman cross. We deserve separation from God and eternal punishment in hell because we have all sinned against our Creator who is Holy and does no evil. The free gift of salvation is available to everyone who believes of their own free will. The work has already been done by God through Christ. All we have to do is accept the free gift He is offering us by faith. The gift of salvation, a new life with God, and The Holy Spirit.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you shall be saved. Then be baptized for the remission of your sins and follow the teachings of Christ and the apostles; enduring to the end.
Good points. Thank you for sharing!
There are over 70 passages that speak of YOUR FAITH. Several the say faith PRECEDES the Indwelling and even God’s grace.
It seems to me, that any one of the tulip five demands the other four exist. Someone smarter than I must have already figured this out. Do you know if anyone has done this?
While most Lutherans don't get very deep into their theology, those that do will quickly realize Lutheran theology teaches humans have no free will and if you believe in Jesus it's because God forced you to believe in Jesus, so there's no reason to evangelize, and they consider what real Christians call "faith" to be a work and thus you are deceived into thinking you have personal accountability for having believed even though God/Jesus commands us to believe and/or to have faith like 1000 times.
Truly evangelical Lutherans look at this from pretty much the same perspective as evangelical Calvinists--if people don't hear the gospel preached it won't flip that magic switch God uses to make people believe and then become the elect unto salvation.
It's all totally stupid, but they get this demonic stronghold of religious false humility which blinds them to what the Bible says and makes them deny personal accountability for their actions while also making God and the devil the same person.
If you avoid all the propaganda written about Luther or Calvin or Augustine and actually read them yourself, it's pretty easy to see they weren't these heroes of the faith they are made out to be by Calvinists liars who idolize them but rather severely disturbed false converts who led millions of people into some new branch of heresy over hundred of years. They corrected some things that were wrong but drove straight into the opposite ditch.
Renounce Protestantism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy and choose Christ.
(Romans 9:16, AVRLE)
“16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
(John 1:13, AVRLE)
“13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
Subbed to your podcast but came over to leave a couple comments from listening in. Several thoughts..
1. To help clarify the Calvinist position.. Calvinists view all that is required for salvation as having been accomplished by Christ. Thus faith being the means NOT condition for justification is given by God. Calvinists don’t do a good enough job recognizing that non Calvinists don’t view faith as integral to salvation but rather see it as a condition to be met apart from any effectual act of God. However, you didn’t see this either.. so you’ll continue not getting why this conversation needs to be had.
2. Calvinists therefore have an argument but it seems you’ve missed it.. but likely due to the poor wording from rather ill informed calvinists online.
3. Your insistence that faith is yours by virtue of Christ saying “your faith has made you whole” proves too much for your case. As non-Calvinists are quick to rebut the Calvinist view by saying, “faith doesn’t save but God saves…” well, as you may now see, your point has Jesus’ words in Mark 5 showing that one’s faith heals them, not Jesus… a thing I definitely think you’d walk back. If you press the point, you undermine your entire argument that Christ, not us, are to be given credit..
Faith is just a synonym for trust. God gives us trust in Him. So it's not something we choose. If we chose it, it would be a work. Pretty much all the works of the law are choices. Thou shalt not kill. To NOT kill is a choice you make. Thou shalt not steal. To NOT steal is a choice we make. So to do all the good works of the law involves us exerting an effort of will, i.e. making a choice. That's what works are: choices, sometimes hard choices. As for why it's called OUR faith, this is because it's a part of us. Paul says that faith is of the heart "for with the heart believes to righteousness" i.e. trust comes from the heart. And the new heart is given by God, in Ezekiel he says He will take out the old heart of stone and put in a new heart of flesh, that is, take out the old heart that didn't trust in God's goodness, that was stubborn and hateful to God, and put in a new heart that loves God and trusts Him and wants to please Him. And this new heart trusts in Him, as I say. So it is all God's work. We don't change our hearts: God does. And our new heart (the one God gives us in the new creation) is indeed a part of who we are, so it's OURS in the the sense that it's part of us. God gave us hands (we didn't give ourselves hands) and those hands are OUR hands. And this is the final point: the gift of salvation is not like a PRESENT that we are PRESENTED with, and choose to receive. We received our hands, eyes, ears, mouth, nose, arms, legs, etc... from God IN CREATION. And that is what the new man is: a NEW CREATION. To use the language of Jesus, the new birth, we don't choose to be born again any more than we chose to be born the first time. It's not something that can be chosen.
Please explain what you mean when you say that Calvinists believe God is "meticulously controlling" all that occurs.
WCF 3:1
WCF 5:1
Randy , you’re not as determined as you think you are.
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. “John 6:37
He is the good Shepherd
A good shepherd loses none of the sheep.
I think a read of the Bible will reinforce God’s sovereignty. His will WILL BE DONE!
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”
John 6:39
I’m a Calvinist. Some of the things you’re saying about Calvinists sound more like Arminians. Who are these Calvinists? I’ve never heard any Calvinist say faith has anything to do with works; it’s a gift of God so that no one can boast, as Paul said. Regarding righteousness, it is imputed to us because of our faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness.” James 2:23. Romans 4 covers it nicely and states that righteousness is imputed to us through our faith, which is given to us by God. Calvinist’s simply believe that God does it all to save us, since we cannot do it ourselves. Colossians 2:13 says we were dead in our trespasses and sins but that God brought us back to life. Dead people cannot resurrect themselves to believe in the living God. Your interpretation of what Calvinists believe sounds strange to me. I’ll take your word that there are people calling themselves Calvinists who are saying what you’re saying, but they sound like a strange group of folks.
You'll find that much of what these traditionalists and provisionists say really have nothing to do with what we know as "Calvinism " or reformed theology. Much of it is third hand misinformation or misrepresentation that is regurgitated to try to persuade people away from reformed theology and its plainly biblical doctrines. Context and proper exegesis goes a long way to show most people the errors they make in the provisionist camp. God bless brother.
Back atya, good insight and much appreciated.
How can you with a staight face "quote" 1 Cor. 1:30 and deliberately leave out the part that states that it is OF GOD that we are in Christ? That is clearly dishonesty.
OK calm down. By the way, can you at all even prove the Bible is true. Who even wrote those passages you quote? Do you believe the Bible is inerrant, infallible, literally true? Calvin lived before the Enlightenment, before Darwin, Copernicus, Freud, modern science in general. You are getting so upset but don't you have to prove the book first? Calvinists have a sort of purist view in a way, I get that. But not to be a jerk, what about the talking donkeys and telling people to kill witches.
Do you ever wonder that maybe take a relazed view of the Bible because if you take it literally it's very extreme, moreover churches would be empty. Did bodies getup out of their graves after the ressurection? I really think the only way to confront the "purity" of Calvinism is to force Calvinist to bring it to the logical conclusion. Slavery is OK, snakes can talk (without a voicebox?) demons, witches, giants, exist. Jesus got mad at a tree. Catholcis were worng for 1000 years. The four gospels dont match. Etc.
Peopole living to 800? Noahs ark? So you want this pure narrow truth that most people are going to some hell and a few arent' from a book filled with this other stuff. Genesis says the Easth came before the sun.
I am not mocking anyone, but if your going to be hyper literal dont you have to be with the whole book? Calvin did not know most of todays science, He also sentenced his friend to death I think. And what about heaven. You think you are going there I presume. Streets of gold? If you can debate so well the details here can you debate all the rest. There are 200,000 erros in the Bible according to shcolars, most not important, but waht about that?
I have not read John Murry. Have you read Bart Ehrman?
You are probably righ about free will. And I am sure you are smart and Calvin was. But can you prove the Bible. And do you not even admit that there are parts of the Bible that make it seem like there is free will. Like I said, I dont believe in free will but what is "sin" without free will? Even more so, whatis punishment without free will? I presume hell is not a punishment to Calvinists? If it is then what is being punished? If not, why is their some much punitive type language in the Bible?
Free will I agree. But total depravity? Is that in the Bible? Sure maybe not righteous people, but totally depraved. How do you explain altuism? Simple kindness? It seems like a nightmarish world to believe that. It just doesn't stand up to observation, unless I am missing the definition of depraved.
Thanks a long rant,
Peace
Calvinists indeed may be the only Christians who can biblically be assured of their salvation. This is especially true since in the five points of Arminianism (which came before the five points of Calvinism) the fifth Arminian point is that the believer cannot ever be sure of their salvation. So it is within the orignal DNA of Arminianism that assurance of salvation is in the end but a dream at best.
People who work in the faith of Christ are disturbed by a worldwide phenomenon wherein people are falling away from the Christian faith. While no Christian might be exempt from the temptation to completely lose heart, it is the Arminians who are most susceptible of falling away and thus not persevering to the end as our Lord commands. Such people are most vulnerable to find out in eternity that Christ never knew them. After all, if you believe that you chose Christ, instead of the other way around, you will always have your mind and heart focused on what you have done.
But what if you are always looking outward and upward knowing and realizing that God chose you? That it was God's electing grace, His regenerating power, that gave you the faith to believe in Him, to have a will not in bondage to sin but a will in bondage to Christ as the Apostle Paul says?
The coming persecution could actually be at the door this time and in our nation. If you are depending alone on some little prayer you prayed or decision you made way back when, you could be in eternal trouble of repudiating everything you think you now have as a Christian.
I think of Mary, Jesus' mother, who stood at the foot of the cross. She could have simply told the Roman authorities that her Son was just crazy, "He gets this way sometimes". "Let me take Him home". I will keep Him there and not let Him out of the house. Mary knew in her heart of hearts that was just not the case because of the angel who came to visit her and because of how she knew she became a mother.
Think about this. This conflict I believe is God's way of purifying the church. Where do you want to be?
Faith is the gift of God (Ep 2.8), is a work/operation of God (John 6.29), (Col 2.12), is given in measure to all the elect of God (Rom 12.3), (Mark 9.24), is given for Christ's sake (Phi 1.29), is not given to the reprobate (2 Thes 3.2), of which Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of (Heb 12.2), is accompanied with saving repentance (Acts 5.31), gives hope, joy, and peace (Rom 15.13), (2 Thes 2.16), shows God's eternal love to the believer (1 John 4.19),without which it is impossible to please God (Heb 11.6), and is the means God uses to declare to the elect sinner they are righteous/just in God's sight (Rom 4.3).
Looking, hearing, coming, eating, drinking and believing all mean the same thing and it is a sovereign work of God (John 8.47), (Pro 20.12) who is the Saviour of His people (Jonah 2.9), (Mat 1.21), and is a work He will infallible bring to completion (Phi 1.6).
God's will indeed is always done (Dan 4.35), (Job 23.13), (Eph 1.11) so the preservation of the saints is a guarantee (John 6.39, 40), for they all shall be raised to eternal life on that last day as they are one with their Head (Heb 2.13,14), who defeated death and hell when He rose the 3rd day for all those who He eternally loves (Jer 31.3).
Great. So faith is a product of human minds and not a gift from God. Your human mind just needs to be..what exactly? Righteous enough? Smart enough?
Paul never says “faith is not a work”. Nothing in Scripture does. A work is simply something we DO. We either DO good things or DO bad things. We either DO good works or DO bad works. Believing is something WE DO. Paul only contrasts “salvation by works” (ie keeping the whole law) with “salvation by works” (ie trusting in Christ… keeping one command). Jesus explicitly calls faith a work in John 6:29.
God gives you faith. He also gives you a body/life/breath. If He gives you your body you have no problem saying “it is my body” or “this is your body” or “this is my life” or “the breath in my lungs”. We always POSSESS the gifts God gives to us: Likewise, we can absolutely say “this is my faith”or “your faith has saved you”. As Paul says, God has given to us LIFE, BREATH, and EVERYTHING. (Acts 17:25). Everything. Everything. Everything. If faith is something that YOU HAVE then it is included in EVERYTHING.
Finally, Jesus absolutely speaks about our righteousness being required to save us. He says in Matthew 5:20:
“For I tell you, unless YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”
OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS is required for salvation! An absolute requirement. We cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven without possessing PERFECT righteousness. God GIVES IT TO US as a gift. All of it is a gift. Not only the imputed righteousness of Christ but also all of the good works that flow from us… the first of which is faith. As Luther said:
“The first and highest, the most precious of all good works is faith in Christ…” (Luther ~ Treatise on Good Works)
Has He given everyone EVERYTHING Brenton. Like the thing everyone needs the most: A SAVIOR?
@@Loves2HugItOut- If someone has a savior… then it is certainly given to them by God.
@@brentonstanfield5198 Brenton everyone has a Savior. Some reject their Savior. Jesus is THEE Savior of the world who did not die for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Take off your western Calvinist glasses and learn the reality of what happened on Calvary. Anyone in hell rejected so great a salvation that was provided for them. They rejected the good news God had for them: A Savior who brings good tidings of great joy which should be to all the people.
The scripture, in romans 4, communicates the idea that faith is one thing and works are another. I'm referring to "to him that worked not, but believeth..." So the leading point of your post is disputed.
I respectfully disagree. Faith is not something we do. It’s something we either have, or don’t have. Prime example. I have FAITH that my bed is going to support my weight when I go to bed tonight. I have FAITH that my alarm is going to wake me up the next day after I set it. I have FAITH that my car will start after I turn the key. Just the same, I have FAITH that Jesus died for the sins of every man, woman, and child on planet Earth, and offers the free gift of Salvation to those who genuinely put their FAITH in Him alone.
This will go on forever, it depends on how high your view of God is, on the one hand you have open theism and on the other Calvinism, if you want to be consistent you can only be either😏
I'm glad he's talking about this. He's misunderstanding what calvinists are saying. I'll clarify. If faith is given to you, it's not a work. It's what Paul describes.
If faith is something you DO, it's a [say it with me] WORK. Works are things you do. Faith is something you have.
He said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted to him by the Father.”
John 6:65 CSB
Thank you for posting your fundamental misunderstanding of theology. I'm glad I could clear this up for you.
Exposit this passage, phrase by phrase.
For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift - not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.
Ephesians 2:8-10
And thank you for posting a reaffirmation of the exact Calvinist confusion I'm arguing for in this video. You said...
"If faith is something you DO, it's a [say it with me] WORK."
Yes. Exactly. Tom, that is my point. You belief that the nature of what faith is, and the expression of it, if we express it, it is equivalent to the "good works" that Paul says we are not saved by.
Of course you think it's something God does, and therefore it's not a work. But honestly, that is a bit beside the point and even perhaps a bit of question begging. The point is that you think the expression of faith on our part is one and the same as the sort of good works that Paul repudiates throughout his epistles.
It is difficult to express just how deeply Calvinists fundamentally misunderstand some of the most repeated and obvious teachings of Paul concerning the contrast of faith and works.
Please note, repeatedly Paul contrasts salvation by works or faith... not salvation by works or regeneration.
Consider Romans 3:21...
"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it- 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."
So Paul is setting aside righteousness "by the law" because of our inability to be made righteous by law, and pointing to another way that is now being revealed. Faith. In your estimation then, Paul has argued against one way of righteousness that is impossible (law/works) only to then present us with another way of righteousness that is equally impossible (faith).
Why did Paul not point to "regeneration" or "effectual calling" here? Why would he reject one way of righteousness that we cannot perform in our flesh (works) and then set up another one that we also cannot do in our flesh (faith)?
I don't that I'm going to convince you of anything here. But, I would challenge you in saying that I think there are many things here you have considered and deep misunderstandings of the nature of what faith is.
@GreatLightStudios no. Sorry. You misunderstood. If you choose to believe, then you've done something. That's a verb. Works are things you do. Also a verb. Calvinists argue that faith is a noun, as in something you have.
Your confusion is that when we point out that you claim we choose to believe, that MAKES it a verb. That's what proponents of your position can't seem to wrap your head around. Logically and grammatically your position makes no sense.
A simplification of your position is to say, I don't do anything to be saved. I just do this to be saved. Think it through. I'm dead right.
Exposit ephesians 2:8-10. By grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
What is this? Faith. You use the word this to describe something adjacent. Example, I'm typing on THIS phone. In THIS passage, it's not talking about salvation. Salvation is not the adjacent idea. Also, it's in verb form in the sentence anyways.
This also explains why, in this passage, Paul talks about predestination. Saying our WORKS (things we do) were prepared for us. Meaning our future actions are laid out ahead of us.
As a matter of fact, Ephesians 1-2 are a definitive essay on reformed theology. Calvin didn't invent it. He's just simply saying what the Bible says. It's straight forward, incontrovertible and unconfusing. That is, of course, unless your idol is your own sovereignty.
@@GreatLightStudios it's all good. Leighton Flowers doesn't like to exposit scripture either. I realize it's detrimental to your position to read more than 1 or 2 consecutive verses. No biggie. It's just the living word of God.
@@tomanderson6233 I do not think you understand what Paul had in mind when he repudiated works. Works aren't just anything we "do" or else taking a dump in the toilet on Sunday morning would be a work. Paul had in mind a specific category of "doing" when he talked about works. That is... anything done in our own power and energies to attempt to achieve righteousness on our own. Any effort made independently from God to fulfill the demands of the law. "works"
You continue to put faith into that same category and by so doing continue to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of what faith is... I'll point back to what I already said...
"So Paul is setting aside righteousness "by the law" because of our inability to be made righteous by law, and pointing to another way that is now being revealed. Faith. In your estimation then, Paul has argued against one way of righteousness that is impossible (law/works) only to then present us with another way of righteousness that is equally impossible (faith).
Why did Paul not point to "regeneration" or "effectual calling" here? Why would he reject one way of righteousness that we cannot perform in our flesh (works) and then set up another one that we also cannot do in our flesh (faith)?"
Faith is a gift from God, just as life is a gift from God. Everyone gets these gifts.
You can waste both your faith and you life away on false idols.
God calls all men to put his faith on Christ.
Calvinists doesn't seem to get this
Faith is sort of the opposite of works. Strive to enter into the Rest.
Calvinists, listen up before you face palm and bemoan our supposed "misunderstanding."
We actually do understand that you don't mean to call Faith a Work, as if it's some external action that merits something.
What you don't actually understand is that it is irrelevant.
Biblically speaking, the way the bible defines a work isn't merely to say it's external, but to say one can boast about it.
Because you insist Faith is an action one can boast over, even with the caveat that is an internal "action," you do mke it a work. It isn't whether it's internal or external, a physical action or mental action, it is the insiatance that you can boast about it, that categorises it as a work when you insist on this.
No. You cannot boast that you believed. You know why? Because if it isn't a supernatural ability only granted to some, and in fact anyone and everyone can do it, then it isn't anything to boast about.
And more importantly, it ISN'T the fact you believed that saved you, but WHO you believed in! The only reason your stinking Faith did anything is because it was Jesus you put your Faith in, the guy who died for your sins and fulfilled all righteousness.
Boast in Jesus.
You don't understand the causal hierarchies in theology.
When Jesus said to the woman at Mk 5:34 "your faith" has healed you, He was simply revealing/instantiating the full extent of the grace of God, viz, that although it was actually the work of the Holy Spirit in the woman that constituted her faith, the woman was nevertheless attributed with that work/faith, for she was (part of) the Bride of Christ, and we know that "the woman is the glory of the man" and indeed "joint heir" with Her Husband.
Commensurately, we read in scripture that at judgement day "every man [(in Christ)] shall have praise from God" (1 Cor 4:4-8). That is, the grace we have received consists not merely of forgiveness, but much much more, and namely, that God praises us for what He has done in us! That's how far grace goes!
No wonder then that Zechariah said:
"What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain. Then he will bring forth the capstone accompanied by shouts of ‘Grace, grace to it!’ ” (Zech 4:7.)
So unfortunately you (the presenter in this clip) are attempting to appraise the things of God with the natural mind rather than in and by the Holy Ghost. Just because the Holy Ghost dwells in you this does not mean you are anointed to teach.
This is from Calvin Don’t misuse his name.
“Dearly beloved brethren we must not be amazed if the article of the everlasting predestination to God, be so assaulted and fought against by Satan’s maintainers, seeing it is the foundation of our salvation, and also serveth for the better magnifying of the free goodness of God towards us. On the other side those Dogs which bark against it thinking to have a good and favorable cause are therein more hardy: as in very truth there is nothing more contrary to man’s understanding, than to place the cause of our salvation in the good will of God, in saying, that it belongeth to him alone to choose us: without finding of anything in us wherefore he should choose us: and He hath chosen us, TO GIVE US FAITH through which we should be justified.”[ John Calvin, Sermon on Election and Reprobation, in The Comprehensive John Calvin Collection (Ages Digital Library, 1998), 225.]
Thus, Calvinists cannot be said to be “extreme” for holding that faith is the gift of God and nothing to do with us producing it with a supposed free will, It should be obvious.
Calvinists reformers are used extremely well by the satan . Reprehensible theologies leeching off The Bible.
Is WMSCOG a calvinist church?
If God gives you faith is it not yours? Is it not from the Lord?
I covered this exact question in this video.
Thanks for your response... if I'm understanding you correctly it seems as if you are saying that indeed faith comes from the Lord and is combined with our faith? I do find it interesting the many passages that talk about your faith in contrast to passages about righteousness. If that is your position I would not agree that I bring anything to the table other than my sin. Could you not boast about the faith you mustered?
Why don't you quote a reputable Calvinist who has remotely suggested that a person's faith is not their faith, but that it is God who is believing for them or that faith is meritorious?
Read John 4:46-53. It explains all of this clearly. Jesus tells a man he will only believe if he sees a miracle (v 48); however, the man believes Jesus when he says his son will live (v 50). Jesus then performs the miracle, and the man (as well as his family) truly believes in Jesus (v 53). Was the belief in Jesus the result of the man's faith or of Jesus' miracle? Your answer to this determines where you believe saving faith originates: God or man.
"Calvinism" rejects making faith a work. So, if anyone attempts to make faith a work, "Calvinism" rejects doing that, simply because Scripture doesn't make it a work.
Jesus Christ is the Author of our faith, which is a gift.
Calvin did reject that faith was a work. He was wrong. It is clearly something we do and are commanded to do (see John 6:29, and 1 John 3:23). Luther was right:
“The first and highest, the most precious of all good works is faith in Christ…” (Luther ~ Treatise on Good Works)
It is of course also a gift… as are all our good works.
faith is not a gift
@@brentonstanfield5198 faith is not a gift
@@munen-muso - Faith is a work (John 6:29). It is something that we do. It is also a gift (1 Corinthians 12:9, Romans 12:3, Galatians 5:22, Philippians 1:29, Ephesians 2:8-10).
@@brentonstanfield5198
Thank you for your reply.
I think that we both would agree that context is everything, and the context of ANYTHING written in the Bible, *is the Bible, and not the words of man.*
With that said, forgive my lengthy reply, but unfortunately you opened up with 6 references.
So, faith is a belief that is proved, shown, or seen, etc., i.e., by what we do. Just as with Christ's works, as he mentioned in John 6.26, shows, or proves, who he is and where he comes from. This is so they believe him and his words, e.g., Christ says to believe him *because of his works* in John 14.11
With 1 Cor. 12.9, this is not talking about faith for salvation, like you are talking about, because Paul is speaking about "diversities of gifts" in v.4, and then in v.7 he writes, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." So, this is about what is being "manifested," or shown. As in Hebrews 11.1 (Now faith is the *substance* of things hoped for, the *evidence* of things not seen.) In v.8-10, you have different gifts given to different people, e.g., “to one it is given..., to another..., to another..., to another faith..., to another..., to another..., to another..., to another..., to another...” Paul is saying these are displays of faith, otherwise he would say, “but to everyone is given faith.” However, he doesn’t say that.
Similarly in Romans 12.3 it speaks of measures of faith. This to cannot be speaking of faith for salvation, because how much faith does one need to be saved? Does it vary? This is why scripture interprets scripture, e.g., in Jeremiah 51.13 it speaks of the “measure of thy covetousness.” This is clearly speaking of God giving fair payment, i.e., judgment for their covetousness. God is not giving them covetousness, but is exacting justice for the equitable amount.
Or, consider how, in Luke 17.5-6, “the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.” This means that faithful actions are clearly connected to one’s level of belief, trust, and faithfulness. Just as in Matt. 14.29-31. When Peter walked on water, but was afraid of the wind, and began to sink, Christ said, “oh ye of little faith.” Does that mean Peter isn’t saved? His faith varied in an instant. This is because it is connected to his belief. Our actions simply display our beliefs and values.
This is the same for Galatians 5.22. More explicitly, the Spirit follows our belief, i.e., our faith. As Ephesians 1:13 says that, “*after that ye heard* the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *after that ye believed,* ye were sealed with that holy Spirit.” Likewise in Romans 1.16 Paul says, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation *to every one that believeth;* to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Philippians 1.29 is better explained with v.25-28, because it shows Paul encouraging the Philippians to rejoice and not be afraid because of their belief in Christ, while at the same time expecting to be persecuted because of belief in Christ. “…*for your furtherance and joy of faith; That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ* … *in nothing terrified by your adversaries*
Ephesians 2.8-10 is actually the easiest to explain and I hoping this what would be referenced, (as I just don’t have time for this kind of thing). Anyway, Grace is the gift man, not faith, but Grace, i.e., Christ’s atonement. See Romans 5.15-18
Okay, please consider that if God judges people by making them consciously suffer for ETERNITY for something God LITERALLY made them do, it would not be compatible with God’s revealed character; e.g., not only would it make God unjust, but it also LITERALLY makes him evil, (because it would all have been his choice), and a liar (as God is Light, Life, and Love) however the actions just described contradict what we know about God’s character.
Finally, I would conclude with the fact the “freewill” is a Bible word.
Have a nice day!
🙂
Why must you continue to claim we believe what we do not believe at all? We do not think that when we believe, it is not our faith but God's. No Calvinist believes that I and I think you know that.
What kind of father would adopt a child and leave him to feel that he's not really going to be kept in the family? What kind of father would in quotes, kick you out of the family and make you understand that someday he would kick you out of the family if all the circumstances don't line up by the time your life is over. What kind of father? Well, the Bible is clear that our birth into the family of God is Not by our choice and yet, there are verses that by the kind of LOGIC that Armenians invariably use to counter Romans 8 and 9 (I won't say Calvinism which came along 1500 years later but which superficial Armenians would like to believe sprang out of nowhere- It's pretty easy to shoot down that straw man After all) might imply that arminianism is true. Let them both stand! They are both true but they don't contradict the fact that we are placed in the family of God by an adopting father who just like he did all the way through the scriptures, chooses one to do this and another to do that and that without him choosing you or me, our vileness, our falleness, our running from God- just like Adam and Eve in the garden- would forever prevent us from wanting to join that family were it not for GOD'S overarching will, and thank God for that. We should thank God for that ie those of us who are saved! God hardens some and he extends Mercy to some, none of us would either do it that way or make this story up. But, it's in the Bible and that's our duty to believe. Why is that so hard? The Fallen nature of man who wants to be on the throne and worships the concept of Man's Free Will which is not to be found anywhere in the scripture but has been repeated so many times that it has come to replace foundational Christianity which has believed from all time- from Romans and from John 1, 1 Corinthians 1:26-29*** and many other passages that salvation, faith, adoption are wonderful gifts from a sovereign God!!
If by saying "your faith" you mean "your autonomous faith-act" then how do we understand the need for, and presence of, the remnant according to the election of grace in Romans 9-11??? Paul says we would be as Sodom and Gomorrah if it had not been for a remnant preserved by God.
A focus on man's autonomous faith-choice is all fine and dandy until there's no one believing, then what?
Does God choose a remnant, therefore they believe. Or, does God choose to have a remnant, and it just so happens he finds believers?
I can't help but feel that you are making significant assumptions about what "remnant" must mean. God chose a remnant. Why do you assume that God must have unconditionally elected certain people to be included in this "remnant" as you seem to be suggesting? Who is to say that there was not a "remnant" of faithful Jewish believers who had not bowed their knee to Baal, and God chose them? In fact... that is precisely how the remnant is described...
"I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
God doesn't say... "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who were as equally unbelieving and rebellious as the rest but I effectually called them to not bow the knee to Baal."
The information we are given is that God selected 7,000 people, and the only information we are given about who these people are is that they were those who had not bowed a knee to Baal but had remained faithful to God.
To me, this is no different than the pattern we see throughout the entirety of scripture. God saves believers. He saves those who believe/trust. The remnant was a remnant of believing Jews who had not given themselves over to idolatry.
@@GreatLightStudios so, is it God wanted 9,000 maybe but he only found 7,000? Why didn't he find none?
Also, notice the order - "I have reserved for myself......who have not bowed the knee...".
What are your thoughts on open theism?
Predestination means God knew he would call you to become a Christian before you were born that's all , and you do not have to take your calling . People not called are not being judged for salvation they will get their chance when resurrected
Clear 💎💯
I will try to explain the difference in the two positions as I see it. When it comes to salvation what is the reason a person is saved. The bible that I read says it is by His doing you are in Christ Jesus. How so ? God predestined the person to be conformed into the image of Christ, He elects that person, He calls that person, by God's grace that person is giving the faith to respond to the Gospel, and that person is regenerated by the Spirit. So if you were to ask me, why should God let you into His heaven? I would say that after I heard the gospel God the Spirit convicted me of my sin, He brought me to repentance, He changed me, He made the words of the Bible to come alive and I believed the Gospel of Jesus. I believed only because of God's mercy on me, it is by His doing that I am in Christ Jesus. Is that what you believe? That is not what you teach. You are saying that after you hear the gospel you believe because of your own faith. It is by your doing that you are in Christ Jesus. It is your faith, your free will, your choosing. So at the end of the day if you were asked why God should let you into His heaven? What is your answer. If you are consistent with what you have been teaching, isn't it your free will, choice, and your faith that you brought up inside your self. While the gospel is foolishness to the other people but not you. You over came by your doing. That is what the difference seems to be.
"Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven."
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. How can they believe if they have not heard? Does the 1st century resident of Jerusalem have the same ability to believe in Jesus as the 1st century tribesman in the Amazon?
How is that not election?
Many tribes have heard the Gospel. Many tribes now have cell phones and computers where the Gospel can be found. The Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the World and then the end come. This does not prove God chooses eternal destinies. Why did Jesus tell his disciples it’s hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God?
@@theresaread72 The tribes of the America's didn't hear the Gospel for 1400 years. Was that "fair"?
@@controlclerk Righteousness and Justice is the foundation of His Throne. Romans 1, 2 states that God has made it clear that His is through Creation and Conscience. If people in the tribe refuse to worship creation, but the God of creation it’s possible that God takes that into account. When Gentiles do what is in the Law, they become a law unto themselves. We are not sure how God judges those who have not heard the Gospel.I don’t really see things as fair, or unfair, but what has God chosen to reveal in His Word.
@@theresaread72 The Bible teaches that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Are you saying there's another way?
@@controlclerk I am saying God throughout time is just. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and died for the Whole including those you mention. I’m quoting Romans 1,2. Babies go to heaven because they have never sinned and because they still needed a Savior Jesus Christ. If someone who has never heard the Gospel, and knew that there was God who created the Son and refused to bow down to the sun as God, and was ostracized or killed for that, I think he was living with the light he had, and God would judge him accordingly. Read Romans 1 and 2 and see what you think. Jesus did die for that person.
Your argument nearing the 3:40 mark is self defeating. Let's replace "faith" with "grace".
Reminding ourselves that grace is a gift from God, we are in possession of such a thing, but not the genesis. This is stated by Paul in 1 CORINTHIANS 15:10.
Your argument that faith is a self- actualized possession is the same as saying grace, because it's within us, moves us, guides us, and motivates us is the same theological "argument".
Will you say the same of grace as you do faith? Or will the response, aside from deafening silence, be "oh, that's different..."
What's the origin of my faith?
Your faith came from God.He gave us Christians the saving faith, the heart to believe in His Son Jesus Christ in order to be saved
@@davidochiengbuoga7165 amen
Faith comes by hearing
This begins with a competent refutation of Hyper-Calvinism. But, a total mischaracterization of the sovereignty of God in salvation (Calvinism). A very poor interpretation of faith passages that betrays an under-developed hermeneutic. Very bad exegesis of Scripture. I notice the brother quotes “Calvinists.” Which Calvinists? To make these statements about Calvinists without crediting the statements to an individual is entirely irresponsible. Also, I noticed, in quoting Romans 9, he steered clear of verses 14-24. Classic case of proof-texting.
See also John 6:44; Philippians 1:29; 2 Peter 1:1, in addition to Ephesians 1:3-15, etc.
Why non-Calvinists are wrong about faith.
Faith is not a prerequisite that God first looks for in someone before He will save them, after all, while the Scriptures say that we are saved “by,” and “through” faith, they never say that we are saved “because” of our faith. Faith is not even something that those outside of Christ who do not walk according to the Spirit can have (Romans 8:7); in fact, *the wicked do not even have the right to covenant with God* (Psalm 50:16) - this passage alone is an insurmountable obstacle for those who insist that faith must precede regeneration, they simply do not have the right. Therefore faith is something that must be received from God (2 Peter 1:1).
Salvation is “because” of the work of Christ and given to certain individuals by the grace of God, and “through” the means of faith, but this faith is not something that is wrought in us by our own doing, it is the effect and definite result of His work in us (John 6:29, Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6); it is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) that is the means through which man is sanctified (Acts 26:18); this sanctification is first positional - whereby we are first set apart as holy (Ephesians 2:5-6, Colossians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 12:27, 1 Peter 2:9, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Romans 6:2, 2 Peter 1:4), then it is progressive - whereby, over time we are saved from the practice and power of sin through an increase in holy living (1 Peter 1:15-16, Ephesians 2:10, Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:18, John 17:17), and then it is final - when in glory we are finally saved from the presence of sin (1 John 3:2). It is God’s grace that saves us, and He produces faith in us that sanctifies us (Philippians 2:13).
This sanctifying grace of faith, once God has given an individual the Spirit of wisdom and revelation to enlighten his eyes (Ephesians 1:17-20), is given by God through the ordinary means of the gospel (Ephesians 1:13, Romans 10:17), and is what permits an individual to submit himself to God and to desire to do so (Cf. Genesis 15:6, Acts 26:12-23); the righteousness of Christ is then imputed to him (Romans 4:9-25), and the Holy Spirit secures and preserves his eternal salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14) - this is the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).
For more information, see:
ruclips.net/video/Z88gj-AW04A/видео.html
Excellent
You truly need to make an effort to understand what Calvinists believe. I don't know of anyone who believes that a believer's faith is not their own. God does not believe for anyone. Additionally, I don't know of anyone who believes that if a person could produce faith apart from God's enabling, that faith would be meritorious. What we do believe is that if Jesus accomplished nothing more for those who will be justified through faith than for those who will perish in unbelief, His redemptive work in itself could not, in itself, have saved anyone. If it didn't save everyone for whom it was offered, it didn't save anyone for whom it was offered. In that case, it must be the sinner's free will decision that activates or effectuates Jesus' redemptive work. The difference in our views is that you believe His redemptive work merely made salvation a possibility that must be actuated by the sinner's free will decision and we believe His redemptive work secured the salvation of a multitude that no one can number and that the salvation once accomplished is applied through faith.
What a load of crap. As if your flesh and blood could activate, Jesus.
How stupid
God predestines, He calls, He justifies, he glorifies…Where exactly is our part in that? Is God’s predestination just a hope? The scriptures are clear. God elects us. We do not elect him.
And he said to them all, "If any man will come after me, *let him deny himself* and *take up his cross daily* and follow me.”
{Luke 9:23}
Shawn, keep reading for simple clarity.
You are a steward bestowed with response ability .
Good Question.
Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatest of His Power towards US who believe, according to the working of His Mighty Power! ............. Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have access with confidence by "The Faith Of Him........ Colossians 2:12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through "The Faith Of The Operation Of God ". .Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the Author and the finisher of Our Faith. It is only the disobedient proud who feel that their saving faith is of themselves! These people are speaking of themselves which is contrary to The Spirit Of Truth!
Amen. These people are confused. They don’t want the faith to be a work of themselves, but they don’t want it to be a work of God either.
@aletheia8054 That's right Brother! The do not even come close to rightly dividing The Word Of Truth! It is impossible To rightly divide The Word Of Truth upon the wresting of the many scriptures from Genesis to Revelations!
For me faith is something we should try avoid but sometimes we do not have the knowledge to avoid it.
“Faith means not wanting to know what is true.” -Friedrich Nietzsche.
“Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.” -Mark Twain
FAITH is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for the EVIDENCE of things unseen. - The author of Hebrews-
Your sources are trumped by the word of God. If I were you, I would put my faith in that and repent. God bless.
The doctrines of grace are without a doubt Biblical
All these passages are speaking to believers not unbelieves.
“Your faith” or “our faith” is a gift from God. We don’t seek it; he grants it.
“No one seeks God”
It’s a gift
Be very, very careful. Your view borders on heresy.
Oy…that’s 13 minutes I’ll never get back
Jordan, You need to spend more time reading or listening to what Calvinists actually believe and stop trying to burn straw men. What we believe about your view is that if you are right, the redemptive work of Christ did not secure anyone's salvation. In your view, what effectuates salvation is not God's work of creation, birth, circumcision of the heart, heart transplant, resurrection, deliverance from bondage in a dungeon, etc. but your unaided libertarian free will decision. If that were true, it would be your faith that secured your salvation by uniting you to Christ. That doesn't mean that we think you are saying that faith is meritorious. What you are saying is that you are the one who distinguished yourself from other sinners by making a proper choice. If that were the case, you would have a basis for boasting before God. Paul addressed this issue in 1 Cor. 1:29-31. It is of HIM that you are in Christ Jesus. . . "Who makes you differ from another, and what do you have that you did not receive, NOW if you received it [what makes you different from other sinners], why do you boast as if you did not receive it" (1 Cor. 4:7).