Is This The Woman Who Betrayed George And Anne Boleyn? | Jane Boleyn
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- Jane Boleyn has bene given a serious image problem throughout history. Vilified almost as soon as her head rolled off the chopping block, Jane's reputation was that of a vengeful women hellbent on destroying her husband for his infidelity, and her sister-in-law with him, as well as being wrapped up in the events surrounding Katherine Howard. While we know very little about her early life, this video takes a fresh look at Jane, and reveals a woman not totally innocent of the charges levelled against her, but also a woman who was used and cast aside by the court and her in-laws...
**Slight error where I say Culpeper was taken into Katherine's household - he was in fact taken into Henry VIII's household, but he was commended by Katherine **
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King of Hearts
Robert Roy
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Jane shouldn't have gotten so heavily involved Catherine's affair/ fiasco. That was her fatal mistake.
This is it! Once you start being the main go-between and you're helping pass out gifts...you now an accomplice and no longer merely a servant.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleI don't believe that catherine committed adultery but being a victim of a pervert before marriage. Remember rape and molestation was the woman's fault back then.
Honestly, I think she and Catherine Howard are poster children for the "Too Stupid to Live" trope. How many people had Henry had executed, including his former wife, Jane's husband, and his longtime advisor Cromwell? I'm not saying that either of them deserved to be executed for their behavior. I'm saying that it was an obvious risk of doing what they were doing, in a court full of gossips and purveyors of intrigue. How stupid do you have to be to take that risk repeatedly? It makes no sense. If someone could go back in time, I wonder if it would have been possible to talk some sense into them. They couldn't have thought it through.
@@Cat_Woodsyou have to remember that women had very few choice in anything back then. Their fathers, brothers or whatever male was the head of the family, used women as pawns for monetary and political gain. It was actually the men who were stupid in thinking they could play the game better than the last woman's family.
Cromwell managed to get Janes father in law to pay her what was owed as it was a pre marital contract arranged by Janes father. Cromwell was gracious towards widows.
I cannot help wondering if Jane helped Catherine Howard as covert revenge against the king - she knew Anne and her husband were innocent of the charges against them. The king was in poor health so it may have seemed likely he would die and never know about Catherine’s activities.
That's a very cool theory. but it kinda makes Jane look so dumb
I don't know if that was her main reason, but I think there's definitely merit in the idea that Jane probably harboured ill-feeling towards Henry VIII. Not only had her husband and sister-in-law been executed, but she then lived long enough to see Jane Seymour die for Henry's obsession with another child, and the separation from Anne of Cleves - it's not beyond the realm of possibility that at least some of what she was doing gave her some happiness at causing the king distress. That said, I don't believe it was her driving reason, as I said, as I think Jane for the most part was intelligent enough to keep her feelings under wraps when needed, otherwise she might never have returned to court.
That's an interesting theory. Entirely possible but (if I recall) she's the one who reported to Cromwell? Or Anne's highest ranking lady who was reporting to Cromwell. . .?
@@altinaykor364 I more see it as comparable to the cold hatred that some people have toward a murderer when their loved one is murdered. I am not saying it was Jane’s sole motivation but to me it fits better than some historians saying it was a love of meddling and intrigue that drew Jane into helping Catherine Howard with her potentially adulterous meetings. Few people would risk their life for a love of gossip/intrigue.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I agree it was not a sole motivation but seems more likely to be cold hatred/revenge than a love of meddling (as some historians have explained Jane helping Catherine with her liaisons) Jane’s letter to George promised help and there is no record that he took it as anything but a comfort…she may have wanted to help him but been warned off once the situation became clear. I agree with you that once Anne and George were doomed Jane and all Annes ladies were under pressure to talk and innocent comments were twisted. Cromwell probably enlisted Jane as his eyes after the Boleyns fell, what option would she have had, pretty much none. As Cromwell was executed on Katherine Howard’s marriage Jane was released as a spy and was a free agent once more.
Katherine Howard never took Culpepper into her household, he was the kings personal body servant and lived in the kings household. He would be sent with messages from the king to Katherine, and he and Katherine were related and had known each other all their lives. It was her former lover Dereham, from the Duchesses household who more or less blackmailed Katherine to give him a place in her household as did other former friends whom Katherine took pity on but was also afraid they might talk about her past - the molestation by Mannox, her former music teacher, and her relationship with Dereham. But it was Culpepper she was in love with, probably the first real love of her life, so she took terrible, suicidal risks to be with him......and Lady Rochford, who should have known better aided and abetted the affair,
I appreciate the videos focusing on the side characters in these major historical events. It helps bring context and depth to what's already out there. Keep up the great content!
What happened to jane boleyn's family after her execution?
Fascinating, as always. Thank you. Isn't it interesting that, no matter what aristocratic house, there will always be , as Aunt Phillips might put it, debts, debaucheries, intrigues, drunken ruts, meddled with daughters, and, though she might not admit it herself, savage gossip.... and usually the innocent or ignorant paying the price.
Oh, absolutely! At the end of the day, people are people, whether for better or worse. 😅 The upper classes just had better ways and means of hiding theirs...most of the time.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleI believe jane boleyn got a unfair nasty rap.
This obsession which people had with staying in the court in older days, especially during the Tudors era, the way they even go as far as calling banishment as cruel act (even though worse things could've happened, like imprisonment or losing head) never really amazes me.
unfortunately Jane also seems to fall into that kind of trope
I know! It's a shame - but I think in her case it was exacerbated by the lack of a husband. For that matter, the only way for to remarry well was to find someone at court, although I couldn't find any evidence that she had ever tried to do that. Also, being a court was a good way to gain extra income whether through gifts or a new position, and just like today, money and power corrupt!
I mean, to be fair, that was considered to be the epicenter of power. Plus, for women, it was one of the rare places where they could get a "dignified" job without having to be married.
@@areiaaphrodite doesn't make them sympathetic exactly.in an age where people might have died of starvation, pestilence, getting unfair trails, getting imprisoned with no access to the outside world and even getting beheaded, the worst case happening to them by banishment would've been how much their servants and maids would've been less and how much fair amount of money they'll be forced to spend like everybody else. they don't deserve feeling pity for, my response to them is this: "Other people have problems too, you know!"
@altinaykor364 1. You said you didn't understand why, so I explained why. Everyone had to make a living back then, even the aristocracy.
2. Don't criticise what you can't understand. No one is asking you to sympathise or empathise. It's just an explanation.
3. I remember you harassing me nonstop before, now that I look at your account pic. I'll say this from now. Don't respond to me further after this. I'm not going to go back and forth with you again.
@@areiaaphrodite it's you who has come into my comment now, as far as I can see
Henry the 8 th was indeed crazy
I feel like this is a pretty good sum-up of Henry VIII. 😂
@@HistorysForgottenPeopledo you think jane boleyn should have remarried instead of staying at court.
King Henry VIII sustained a contracoup head injury whilst taking part in a Joust and was unconscious for several hours. It is now known that this kind of head injury can cause serious damage and results in severe changes in the sufferer's personality. As a result of this serious injury, the shock to his pregnant wife, Anne Boleyn, caused her to mis carry their son. This accident was a truly tragic misadventure that changed history.
As a survivor of basilar skull fracture I had believed that may have been the case however knowing that depends on the culture and the people during that Era. Unbeknownst to the people did not know that it is the man decides the sex of the baby. STILL WE CAN NOT FORGET THE MANIPULATED SITUATION WAS ALL ABOUT MALE POWER 😮
@leeannproctor47
The court ppl were just horrible
Spying + Conniving + impossible 2 trust
I always thought culpepper was an idiot for not burning the letter.
He thought it was weapon against Katherine not his own noose.
Catherine did refer to him as her little fool. Perhaps that comment was more than just an affectionate love name.
Jane didn't remain poor for long. The king made her father in law pay over a portion of her jointure which Thomas had been reluctant to do.....he was very bitter towards Jane which make me think she did indeed give evidence against her husband. Also it wasn't long before she was back at court as lady in waiting to Jane Seymour, and then Anne of Cleves - and she got New Years gifts from the king. Plus she had something to with the king getting his annulment from the Cleves marriage. She was in a position to say it was never consummated. Then she was rewarded with a place in Katherine Howards household, and we all know how that turned out.
There is NO historical evidence that she testified against Anne or George. She mourned them for a very long time, she sent George a letter of comfort and testified that Anne had confided in her about her problems with the king.
Thank you for doing your research on jane. A lot of authors and historian's say she was a only child well we know thats not true well done on another great video. As someone who studied tudor history im really enjoying your videos keep up the good work 😊
No problem, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊I admit I was a little nervous doing research on Jane as there's comparatively little compared to the other more famous ladies at court at the time, but it was good to turn her into a flesh and blood person rather than her usual evil caricature.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople yes there isn't much known about jane I have watched and read everything I can on her most make her out to be the evil wife and sister in law. but like you I like to think of her as a real person and explore every avenue. Thank you again for a really interesting and great video
@@HistorysForgottenPeopledo you believe that jane was guilty or falsely accused of bringing down Anne and George.
Henry VIII would have found a way to get what he wanted, no matter the cost and who it harmed.
11:15 Anne married Henry secretly in a PRIVATE ceremony on the 14th of November 1532, and married her PUBLICLY on the 25th of January 1533.
Maybe Jane really was losing her sanity slowly over time. You are right, she would have to be crazy to think that an affair between the Queen and anybody would go unnoticed for long. Especially if she was encouraging the affair.
Amazing video! Jane has got involved in such affairs that may have had compromised her somehow considering how things were back in those days at the Tudor Court. Beautiful work as always 💖👍🏻
Thank you so much! 😊 I'm pleased you enjoyed it.
We shouldnt forget that during the time, women who werent "clichee females" were portrayed not in a good picture.. so I dont think she was as evil as she is often said to be.
You and I think alike.
Nice to have you back! Excellent video as always. 😊
I'm happy too.
This video might change my views, but, as I said, I don’t think she betrayed George and Anne, but I just can’t get over the Katheryn Howard debacle😭 she must’ve known what was going on- she said it herself- so it’s a stain on her memory imo, I could never warm to her.
Yeah, that's basically my conclusion as well! 😊 I agree that she wasn't responsible (or at least not singularly) for George and Anne's deaths. But she definitely was significantly involved with Katherine Howard's affair - who knows, maybe she thought she could get away with it!
@@HistorysForgottenPeoplehas anyone ever considered that George Boleyn was shooting blanks. As for the Catherine Howard drama tattle telling back then could have gotten Jane killed as well.
Great job with your work and video.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! 😊
@HistorysForgottenPeople will you do an extended segment on George Boleyn?
What annoys me the most about Jane is, after having flown so close to the sun and nearly been burnt, why then did she actively involve herself in the affairs that Catherine Howard had? It makes no sense for her to have done so after working to hard to be rehabilitated after the downfall of her husband and his family.
Nope. Henry, Cromwell and norfolk looked for a scapegoat. Women had almost no rights then. Jane would not have been allowed a choice.
I believe Jane was practicing self preservation. She knew no way Henry was ever going to get Catherine pregnant. She was trying to help it alone. If Catherine had a son, and Henry could assume it was his, Jane’s position was secure forever.
Thoroughly enjoyed this, thank you 🙏🙏👵🇦🇺
Jane went mad when she was jailed. Was it guilt that drove her to madness? A sad life she led.
Hi, awesome live history video I enjoyed it. How are you doing and how's Mallard your cat? I'm doing well. My cat Benjamin is doing well also. We have a heatwave in Ontario Canada. How is the weather where you are? In the next video in the future could you do elizabeth boleyn she was the mother of anne boleyn in the 16th century. Have a great day see you next video 😊
Well, hi Benjamin the cat 🐈 from amber - an Australian 🇦🇺 cat 🐈⬛. We’re having an extremely cold spell here. Amber is in front of the heater. We hope Benjamin stays cool 🐈🐈🐈⬛🐈⬛🧊🧊👵🇦🇺
Excellent video, really changed my mind abt her. Learned a lot and recontextualized things I did know. Subscribed!
Thanks for sharing this interesting video
I still wonder if George and Jane loved or despised each other?
It would seem psychopathy was quite normal and expected back then in these circles and in the society at large. Great illustration of this period.
Very good. Thank you.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! 😊
Thanks for all the information!! love it!!
“the Great Matter” that was referred to in this video was referring to King Henry wanting to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon so that he could marry Anne Boleyn, it was NOT referring to who will succeed him- I have studied Tudor History for decades and have No Formal Education on the matter and I even knew that- So, by providing inaccurate and incorrect historical information, you are doing a disservice to those who don’t know any better
It's difficult to determine what was in Henry's mind. Cromwell, who would be expected to know, was quite surprised by Henry's marriage to Anne, as he had been working on a potential marital tie with France. Henry's divorce from Catherine and marriage to Anne was not popular with very many.
🌞She wasn't the only indominitable woman I know some too
❤🤔💡📖📚I really love this channel. I am always learning. I am often pondering over some historical topic and viewing it in a different light.
In regards to Jane Parker Boleyn, I have never thought that before perhaps her involvement in Catherine Howard's potential affair was more of a power move and less of a lady just following orders of her queen. That is an interesting idea and it does seem most likely. 🤔 👑⚡️♟️
I do not think she had any involvement in the downfall of Anne and George Boleyn. It would not have serve her to do so. It would have compromise her own position.
As always fascinating and educational video!! Great job!!
A good narrative. Well researched.
Nice video ❤❤❤ keep it up
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! 😊
I’ve also heard it could be possible Jane disliked Catherine, and arranged the affair to sabotage her, based off Jane’s close connection to Anna of Cleaves. Maybe she didn’t think she would pay the penalty, or that she would be able to claim ignorance as to the affair.
Why did Jane never remarry?
I’m wondering if her reputation was tarnished because of the outcome of her husband and Anne
It's a good question! We don't really have an answer. At first, it would almost certainly be that her reputation took a hit, but once she was obviously welcomed back by Henry VIII, that would have gone a long way to repairing the damage. It's possible (if we do go with the conclusion of Jane doing what she did regarding Katherine) that her desire for power stretched to not wanting to be connected to another husband.
I mean, there's zero proof, but as a hypothetical, it's possible some of her marriage difficulties with George could have been due to her preferring women.
In this time period, if a widow remarried, her wealth became her husband’s property.
For the question, if you could lock two historical figures in a room for some hours, who would they be?
Your reasons could be comedic, dramatic, or heartwarming👀
Henry the 8th and Jesus cause he needs Jesus 😂
@@Hailey-mx4kc LMAO great one, he’d get a proper scolding I’d bet
What Henry did to get her executed was so pure evil, killing a person who may have been insane, what pure evil. This is probably the evilest thing he ever did, that and what he did to his two daughters.
I can never understand how she could be so crazy as to if it's true get mixed up with Katherine Howard's boyfriend the only thing that makes sense is that life at the court must have been mind numbing boring
" recollections may vary "...a quote allegedly by her late Majesty, Queen Elizabeth ll...
The Tudors idea of beauty was very different from ours
When u R young + Naive
Not Stupid
But Naive.
U R insecure in yourself
Your looks etc
Because every woman looks so Sophisticated compared 2 u
Then the king looks your way
You Are Flattered
But knowing you R with someone gives u Strength
And u Flirt
Not realizing
The king could NOT Care LESS
+ u R just More tempting to him.
Bf/Hubby looking after his OWN interest including
Power
Prestige + Life
Gives u up
NOW U R Stuck
No idea HOW 2 get out of it
U believe the kings words
Because Nobody of power has Ever been fascinated by u be4
Plus the king Makes u Believe All,
That u R Special + Beautiful
And incredibly intelligent
Not Realizing
He has Always said these exact words
And treated all women basically the same
Minus this or that
I could go on
But u know the Rest!
I thought Culpepper was in the king’s service. Katherine took Dereham into her service as a Secretary. Am I wrong?
The axe used at timestamp 22:50 has a barcode label.
I read that theres very little to prove her marriage to george was unhappy
Is there any evidence that Jane was an early mistress of the king and then married off to George Boleyn?
Damnit, I really wanted to watch this, but that damned noise in the background (insanely irritating music of some sort) is just too much to put up with. Either eliminate it altogether, or turn up its volume so people can hear it.
Do you think privy people today still clean the monarchs bum? I know that his and his family have someone to put toothpaste on their toothbrushes. I pay for that and I kind of resent doing it myself since I haven't even had a holiday in nearly 20 years
❤
Good DOCUMENTARY
Time 8:39PM Fri 8/2/24