New details emerge in investigation of Surfside condo collapse
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- Brand new information was released Thursday on the investigation into what caused the collapse of the Champlain Towers South in Surfside in 2021. CBS News Miami's Joe Gorchow looked at where investigators are going now.
Oh my, it has been 3 years already. Feels like a month ago...
the building went from formica and carpets to 1000's of tons of marble counter tops and floors.
All that is normal FYI.
Also impact windows
@@vjreiit isn't, it was not designed for these larger loads
A building does not fall for those reasons. I am an architect. Unless the building is built by a Cuban or Jew and in Miami you have both.@@MrDino-hp7fy
@@MrDino-hp7fy Are you sure? In which states do you hold a P.E. License, Civil Engineering, Structural Specialty?
I wonder if they are doing anything to this building's twin a couple of buildings down. Same design, same builder, same developer. Doesn't have the added on penthouse but otherwise the same building. it has a competent condo board so it doesn't have the lack of maintenance issues from what I have read, but otherwise seems like a ticking time bomb.
I'd like to know where 15 mil is coming from to fix the spalling, tho...and even if you DO, it'll be back in 5-10 years.
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 - if they need 15 mil they will charge the unit owners in an assesment...
If you go by the site, you can see all the twisted rebar coming out of the basement floor where pillars used to be. They look to be in great shape given the amount of years they have been subjected to moisture. Then you have no proof of removing dead bodies from the rubble. Usually crime scenes have thousands of pictures to prove that these people actually died. Who knows, they might be alive walking around with all that insurance fraud money.
They had it inspected and found it needed a lot of work and shoring up so it wouldn’t collapse. Shame
I thought about that as well do know if I were a tenant I’d pack my bags so quick and run as far as I can because the likelihood of this happening is very high considered all the similarities
Surfside reps: Clearly we need to establish better codes to fix these issues.
People: The ones who built this didn't follow the code in the first place. Keeping up with repairs would have also helped.
Surfside reps: Repairs and making sure the code is followed costs money! Come now, let's spend some money to establish better codes.
in the 40 years since the CTS was built the codes were updated many times im sure
On another youtube page it was said that their wasn't enough rebar in concrete beams against what the original plans had called for and the placement of the rebar was not correct........Why didn't the city inspector catch this when it was built?
$$$$
Um, I'll take "What is money?" for 500, Alex...
Bribes!!!
the ones inspected probably looked good... they bad ones were not shown to inspector
It's Florida. So, my answer is "systemic corruption."
A different news story from last year mentioned that back in the 70's the state considered requiring coated rebar for construction near the coast for an extra layer of protection against corrosion, but land developers fought it & won, saying it was too expensive... so the news station contacted someone to get an estimate of how much it would increase the building costs and they said about or under 1%. Unfortunately, whenever big businesses want to protect every last cent of their profits they don't really care about human lives.
Florida, where regulations take a backseat to profits and safety.
Thank to the Repugnican....
Ths was 50 years ago. Florida regulations became VERY strict in 1992, after Andrew.
@@Realfrenchie This was in the past many different people have been in Florida both D & R party...50 years ago it was D in charge....Both political parties care about profits...let's not be stupid...
@@beautybonvoyage8624lets be clear - this was over 50 years ago, and Republicans have had a good track record on safety when it comes to this stuff, just as much as Democrats. In fact, recertification has changed since this happened.
What you're saying though in English is roughly the same translation from the language moron , as transcribed into our phonetics "durrrrr juss b3c4us3 se oda side doing den it mus be c0r3ct"
@@RealfrenchieYou’ll want to keep more of your money, once you make some.
Who at the city level approved the original plans? Where were the building inspectors as this was being constructed? We significantly remodeled and added on to three homes over the years, each in a different city. And in each case, we had local building inspectors holding the architects and contractors to strict standards. I knew the building inspectors by name because they were around so often. That's how it should be.
40 years ago, people responible are dead now in some cases
SEA SALT VERY CORROSIVE
The basement was completely flooded after the collapse but no report as to the chemistry of that water has been released. If it was seawater, and bearing in mind the site kept flooding after the debris was cleared, and there were no rain events to cause such flooding, then the whole southern Florida coastal development is clearly being undermined by rising sea levels. But obviously, Desantis doesn't want that conclusion to the report because he simply wouldn't know how to deal with it politically.
Insurance companies put a mortgage cap of 20 years onto the coastal prop over twenty years ago. Champlain is proof of why they did that. More should have been done to protect the buildings but this kangaroo inquiry, which is clearly going after the builders, is a complete whitewash, distracting people from the Florida government's failure to respond to issues that put their resident's safety at risk.
Republican as well are very corrosive...
You are so right. I live in a different state but near a coast. We all know never buy a used car if it was near the ocean or heavy snow (isalt on roads). Salt is very destructive.
@@yvonnephillips3888 It's not saltwater in the air. It's salt water moving in through the corralled strata. The ground. Soon even the Everglades will be threatened. But you are talking about cars.? People should be talking about the buildings in which people live by the hundred. Why dozens died simply because people won't accept rising seas as a reality. Denial of this issue is insane.
Unless it's garage kept. I live in a snow state. My garage kept is in perfect condition after 15 years.
Everybody here is pointing to one factor or another, but, most likely, it was a number of these things that came together in a “perfect storm.” 😔 RIP to the victims.
The pool was leaking on the main support beams this separated the concrete from the rebar. The building was over 40 years old and not up to code anyway. Also the main support beams was right next to a utility closet housing chemicals any spark would have set off explosion chain. Cig in parking garage anything as all was in bottom of building. Also rebar frame didn't go 3/4 into sand in code only went 1/4 for stability. Insurance should cover collapse. Code compliance thou not being up to-date no one should have been living there.
Will the designers and builders be criminally liable? Or will it be swept under the carpet to safeguard these people.
Look at all these recliner engineers here. You all should team up and build the tallest building in the world, would be a piece of cake for you
Okay...so it took them two years to figure out something that the entire internet figured out in 48 hours. Cool.
There is a difference between a guess and finding hard evidence that supports a hypothesis.
@@johnp139True, but whoever is getting paid for this investigation is dragging it out for way longer than they should.
@@johnp139 Yeah, but maybe it didn't really require two years? That's my point. Like other folks have said, it does seem like maybe they're milking this a bit.
Its simple...the hoa mismanaged funds and skirted safety regulations
You can't tell me that all of the pounding of pylons into the sand to build the enormous building immediately to the South didn't exacerbate this tragedy.
Definitely did if I remember correctly they were too close to the Champlain towers building while driving piles
It most likely didn't, if you watch the full meeting it looks like alot of shoddy rebar work in the concrete. There were mutiple support pillars found to be incorrectly rebared and not properly overlapped as they went upward. Some of the garage pillars didnt even have rebar going into the ground only half the 4-6 rebar pieces went into the ground. That was the other thing the pics are hard to distinguish some pillars with tons of rebar others with almost none.
Did it exacerbate the weaknesses in an *already faulty* building? Probably. But high-rise buildings are erected MUCH closer to each other in urban centers and resort beaches *all over the world* without any detrimental effects on each other. In this tragedy you had the perfect storm of a corner-cutting developer (who acted, UNethically, as his own Gen Contractor), lax local gov't oversight, and an absolutely boneheaded HOA with a long history of *deferred maintenance!*
Buildings are supposed to be able to withstand such things. It definitely didn't help, but it definitely didn't cause it either. The condo building was built poorly and whatever happened next door isn't at fault for that.
@@MajorCaliber Yes, I agree with everything you said. My comment wasn't worded as well as it should've been, but yours captured the point that I was trying to make. Maybe the building could've stood for another 40 years, despite all of the issues it had, had someone not built an enormous new building right next door. Are developers even required to evaluate the potential impact to adjacent structures and land before embarking on their own projects? I'm afraid that too much big development is happening right now at the North end of East Bay Harbor Islands that's going to have some impacts down the road.
If the building would have been maintained properly it would be standing today.
This was a failure to maintain
@@winning3329 who designed this building didn't think much about salt in the air.
The building was doomed from the day it was built, lots of corners were cut.
Salt in the air isn't causing severe spalling in the garage rebar.
If the building HAD been maintained properly it would be standing today.
Bad building everywhere you look. NULU in Louisville KY too.
Defects is not a very descriptive word. What was built and the engineered plans were 2 different things. Those broken columns are not the one to highlight, the ones under the pool in the garage had little to no rebar tie-in with the floor so they punched through. Adding another half of a floor later for a penthouse suite was a great idea too. The short concrete wall along the pool, at the corner it was being held together with paint.
There's video from before with someone walking around shaking their head.
What you're looking at with the bottom of the columns broken is it shows how many pieces of rebar are in it, the answer it not enough, it's 4 when it should be 8 and 8 when it should be 12 or 16.
DeSantis ended the "overburdening" building inspections a few years before it went down too. After 40 years they are supposed (past tense) to get more frequent. He fixed that.
Video footage of pipes leaking into underground garage area?
Interesting that the building construction next door wasn't mentioned. When they built the building, they had to draw out the water to pour the casons and to create a surface for the foundation. I keep thinking that made the ground underneath the collapsed building weak and created a sink hole of sorts.
Isn't there water issues reported since 1997?
It was mentioned but in a general way.
Go back and rewatch. But this time pay attention.
there was no sinkhole in foundation when they cleared the mess
The way that 13 story building pancaked I can’t imagine nobody really surviving the few that did were extremely lucky
Waikiki, watch out. Especially the diamondhead side condos !!
Is this going to happen again?
Absolutely. So many buildings that are not up to code and have similar defects. Just a matter of time.
Already happening in NYC
Eventually, yeah.
I'm sure the people that currently live in the identical North building are thrilled to hear that the building doesn't meet code.
Built on a plowed over mangrove swamp.
Exactly 💯 percent
Negligence of the building is what caused the collapse, period. They should have never let those people stay in that building until they remodeled it. Carelessness is why this tragedy happens.
So, this comes down to the architecture? Is the firm that designed it still in business?
That was 40-some years ago. Far as I know. Everyone is dead now.
Changes were made to the original architectural designs -- and the original architects apparently had no chance or opportunity to approve them.
How can an investigation last so long?
It’s a very detailed process. Just gathering the information itself was a huge process. Videos ,pictures, records from various sources including private citizens that had to be tracked down and scrutinized. Then all the evidence has to be sifted through. Computer simulations based on evidence. It’s a lengthy process and not something you want to rush.
They're going as far as to construct wireframe 3D models from grainy video and creating a technical timeline/model of the whole collapse, collecting on-site materials and testing them, analyzing errors in construction and reproducing them in lab so they can test the impact of those errors on building strength, etc.
This is basically the "leave no stone unturned" strategy to analysis. It's painstaking and slow, but produces really, really valuable knowledge for buildings to be constructed for decades to come. Goal is not to find and assign blame (e.g. as would be the case in litigation), but to learn as much as possible (with as much certainty/evidence as possible) from the disaster.
@@henryptung If no stone is to be unturned then surely sea level rise would be mentioned. The salinity of the water in the flooded basement. The reason why the site kept flooding after the debris was cleared. The building regulations are just a political way to deflect from the real reason for the collapse so that the Florida coastal property industry doesn't lose value. They are flogging a dead horse if they think this inquiry is going to work like that.
They are trying to find excuses for not protecting property against rising sea levels. Florida was warned decades ago to take precautions but they simply did not want to spend money on something that they politically denied.
Please look up Building Intgrity and the other guy that always pops up when you look for BI. Watch their stuff and the lines where stuff sank and sagged.
This was three years ago?! 😮
Is anyone surprised? Miami is the definition of amateur hour. I’m surprised they even had inspections in the first place.
I still think someone hit one of the columns while trying to park and that caused the collapse.z
The building was less than 200' to the ocean (SALT WATER!) and 40yrs old the water soaks into concrete the leaving the salt behind to rust the steel rebar look at the pictures of the rebar! The only way to stop this in the future is to use STAINLESS STEEL REBAR! when your that close to the ocean!
another commenter here said that the the developer successfully fought a requirement to use more suitable rebar that would have cost more.
Well, at least they have some timeline. Unlike Miramar which is just hiding police responsibility for 4 and a half years and counting.
A responsible news agency would be asking the state attorney's office about that every month until they provided an answer.... and telling the public each time they don't provide one.
they drilled a hole to pass drugs from one apt to the lot
condo board members andownders should have been held accountable.
at least 1/2 the condo board died in the collapse of the building. A bit hard to make them. accountable when they perished in the building collapse.
some got the death penalty, rest lost their homes...
New detail: it broke.
Are cities and counties scanning old planning, architectural, construction documents, using AI to look for potential problem areas?
Yes they are,so that the building inspectors know which building owners to get bribes from, and the local politicians know which building owners to get campaign contributions from.
How about we let AI figure out how to create realistic and anatomically accurate human hands before we just start trusting it to fix construction issues, huh?
Code and regulation improvments? In Florida?
Hahaha!
NEVERRRRRRR!!!
Jet fuel doesn’t melt steel beams
So Americans are always bragging how they are the best at everything……and they built this structure, this way on sand…..????🙄
Americans are also always bragging about how much better it is not to have government regulations interfering with their freedom to find ways to kill each other.
One word - Florida.
Being the best at everything includes being the best at scamming since scamming is within the set of everything.
Gravity caused the colapse! case solved
wondering if desatan will spearhead an effort to check bldgs built by the same firm and at the same time????
4.5 years to write a report?
No, to do the investigation and THEN write the detailed report!
Milking it for all its worth....keeps them in a job
The mayor lied
Sand .
I hope the lady can breathe OK in that tight dress.
🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁LION c LIKE No. 465
It’s the water in the swimming pool’s fault!! 🤷🏼♂️😂🤷🏼♂️. ……oh, and the cheapness of people not wanting to PAY for proper construction. 🤔🤔🤔
Pool was full of water after collapse
You can still have a severe pool leak underneath if you have to put in a lot more water often. Please see the big sink hole in Russia, was it?
Just paying somebody to do the job properly doesn't insure it is done properly. That is what the building inspectors were supposed to be checking 40 years ago, before all the shortcuts were encased in concrete.
@@mikemilner8080 - residents should have upgraded and repiared things over the last 40 years too
A final report in 2025?
Great work Florida!
The current investigation is being done by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, a Federal Agency. Perhaps Florida state and local officials are dragging their feet to slow down the investigation or the House Republicans have defunded NIST to protect Florida's property markets, but the Feds are the ones doing the real work.
arrest the people who were in charge of inspecting the building!!! CRIMINAL CHARGES ARE NEEDED!!!
There were several experts who looked at the building before the collapse and warned of potential structural failure. The problem is, nobody in the government cared.
They are dead.
@@aimeeinkling - governmnet not involuved as its private property.. the inspections were paid for by condo residents... and given to condo board
Turns out deep soil mixing isn't safe.
florida is a mess haha
Put Ron Desantis in jail....
He wasn't even governor then
I agree, F that guy, but he’s not responsible for this
@@yvonnephillips3888 he is now, but not for long....
DeSantis was still wearing diapers when the building design was completed (1979 - Ron was born September 14, 1978) and still preschool when it was completed in 1981, so the design and construction problems aren't on him. The limited periodic inspections are however consistent with his party's values and his agenda as governor.
Concrete buildings don’t just collapse.
Maybe you should watch the videos showing it collapsing. Where do you think that all of the rubble came from?
@@johnp139 for it to collapse like that, the pillars supporting the structure would have to have been blown out, drilled out, jackhammered, cut out. Now everyone else has to struggle with astronomical insurance rates.
@@johnp139 Did insurance companies get proof that all these people actually died? Are there crime scene photos showing dead bodies being removed from the rubble? I’m 100 percent sure this was all insurance fraud, just like the Ghost ship fire in Oakland Ca.
@@johnp139 There’s also an entire generation of young people working in Silicon Valley’s Tech industry ( The New Department of Defense) that know the truth because all the digital evidence is not adding up to the gangs account of what happened here. The digital evidence’s is telling a completely different story.
Are you saying no one died? Because that has to be the most delulu thing I've ever all my life @@JeremeyHowlett
Oy gavalt! Lol 🤣. The Tower of Babel crashed to dust.
At least Ron Desantis has their heels and wine.
Its crazy how carefully this collapse has been analyzed, even years later. 3 steel framed skyscrapers collapsed in the same place on the same day. This had never happened before, but instead they waited months for the fires to stop, and then just cleaned it up. Only years later was inadequate footage analyzed, and only due to public outcry, as they threw a “report” together to explain this never before seen phenomena.
California currently bowing to the collapse by a state bill making inspections of condos for structural integrity, mine included. 5 years owning here in I realize my neighbor owners have also deferred maintenance for 35 years, keeping our monthly dues artificially low for decades. Those folks are very proud of that accomplishment 🤦🏼♀️‼️ We just got the integrity inspection, next is termite tenting and the stalwarts are pitching a fit. One of our HOA board members was slapped at a meeting by an ignorant bully woman resulting in a restraining order! Now that faction is calling for a new board when it took about 4 years to cobble our current board of dedicated homeowners to try and lift us out of our developing pit. We faced hurricane Hilary last fall with original tile roof from the 90s🥺. Lucky for us she veered east. We've got 300 units and normally very solid people are going goofy. (It's poison! Who will pay for our stay elsewhere for 3 days? Forget an arborist opinion or making cuttings "oh my decorative plants‼️)🤨We used orange oil forever just chasing the two of 3 kinds of termites chewing us up and we've never been effectively treated for termites for the life of the property! Lovely landscape probably choking the life out of our underground plumbing & sewer, our stucco needs maintenance and then there's that roof. Neighbors also going around acting like in the community they're'individuals'. Really? You would be able to afford a private security patrol? We benefit from community buy in for security, trash, landscaping, building insurance ( which is the underlying reason besides pride in home ownership driving our recent focus.) When it comes to let say termite mitigation suddenly, "I did mitigation for my property ( physically attached to 3 other homes)."
Uh no.
Thanks for the rant and PLEASE, if you own a condo or townhome, duplex, triplex etc you are not your own private Idaho‼️Pay dues increases so you don't face a nasty assessment ( where I used to own 1 bedroom assed $5K, here I'd say it's more like $10K if it comes to that.)
Please don't use examples of folks pulling January 6th insurrection moves as viable behavior for communities 🥺🤦🏼♀️‼️ Living in a sea of Karens 🤨.