Florida's Response to the Surfside Collapse
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- In this video we talk about Florida Senate Bill 4-D which was voted on during a special session and signed into law by Governor Ron DeSantis in May 2022.
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Josh's other RUclips Channel: / whatdevelops
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𝙈𝙞𝙡𝙡𝙚𝙣𝙣𝙞𝙪𝙢 𝙏𝙤𝙬𝙚𝙧 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• Millennium Tower
𝘾𝙝𝙖𝙢𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝙏𝙤𝙬𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙎𝙤𝙪𝙩𝙝 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• Champlain Towers South
𝙊𝙣 𝙋𝙤𝙞𝙣𝙩 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• On Point
𝙊𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙅𝙤𝙗 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• On the Job
𝙊𝙣𝙚 𝙤𝙣 𝙊𝙣𝙚 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• One on One
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#BuildingIntegrity #surfsidecollapse #champlaintowerssouth
Disclaimer: Nothing contained within this video should be construed as legal advice. Building Integrity makes no claims of its own regarding the guilt or innocence or liability otherwise of any legal entities mentioned in any of their videos. These videos are made for news/informational and educational purposes only.
The state should have hired you to come in and explain the whole situation to them, along with any relevant information that pertains to the new laws being formed. You’ve done a fantastic job explaining these concepts to all of us (laypersons) and I think you would be a perfect commission leader on this incident.
Politics clouds judgment.
Having practical knowledge, experience, and skills in a technical field does not confer the necessary knowledge, experience, skills, or _interest_ in dealing with politics. On the other hand, the lack of such things is not all bad for scenarios as we see here.
If he's not an expert witness already, he's leaving money on the table.
How many balls do you think that Josh can juggle at the same time?
That's the problem here, you guys always assign superhuman powers to people who have skills higher than yourselves. Using factual measures would be a more accurate measure.
I’m a P.E. For 30+ years. I’ve conducted engineering inspection/evaluations. More often, I’ve contracted with dozens and dozens of engineers to conduct such inspections. I have NEVER seen any evaluation report which said “looks great!” Every one says something like “we have identified this aspect which MAY lead to premature failure and we recommend more testing or complete replacement.” Engineers are not stupid. Nobody wants the liability of saying “looks great!”
As a retired Architect who has specialized in building science I would suggest that both Architects and Engineers need to be involved. Most Architects could not certify a structure, but most Engineers do not understand building science well enough to know if a wall or roof is constructed properly.
Well put, Paul, and accords entirely with my own experience as an architect in Scotland where around 50% of my professional life was spent working and reporting on existing buildings in various states of disrepair. While many architects are shaky on the quantitative aspects of structural and engineering services systems assessment and calculation (I include myself in that group), only architects have an integrated and holistic understanding of the building and the interaction of the parts. The key is knowing when to request the attendance of the specialist investigator or remediator.
Agree on the issue of allowing architects to do the inspections. Actually, I think this is an area that probably requires certification as a minimum, and potentially a specialty license.
As to notifying the building agency - I think it's a very good idea for the regulatory body having jurisdiction to be aware of when these inspections are supposed to take place. It would not surprise me that many, if not most, building agencies don't have accurate records to support the 25-30 year trigger point for existing buildings. What I think is missing is some kind of 'what if' authority that gives the building agency the authority to actually do something if someone decides to ignore mandatory requirements - such as withdraw the occupancy certificate for the building.
You mentioned who is required to receive the milestone inspection reports, but you did not mention whether those reports become public records that are accessible to the general public. Building occupants are owners who could be motivated to withhold unfavorable information about the building - there must be assurance that potential buyers have access to those reports.
Finally, as to the report retention requirement - I suppose there is an argument that because the reports are done periodically, retention for 15 years is sufficient. But I would be more comfortable with a requirement that the reports be retained until the end-of-life of the building.
Yeah, the reports should be kept at least 21 years so at minimum 2 prior reports are available at all times.
Josh, I sure agree with your reservations about the provision of allowing "arsitects" to do these inspections. I'm sure that my historical bias towards them is showing and it's based on past experience.
I think one reasons the government now requires to get a copy of every report is spotty record keeping of condo boards.
Reporting isn't spotty in FL. Providing a copy to the govt makes the condo board, engineering firm and govt all accountable, to each other, to get the inspection and report
@@JackieBluXO which state do you live in?
I live in Florida and the reporting is spotty. The FL government is always doing business, and the issues never get resolved.
Also, the associations are scamming people, building crap they don't need and deviating funds.
@@fiore910 I live in FL too. Construction background and former govt employee
This is going to really gut the condo industry in Florida because all the buildings are probably falling down and there's no way that most of the residents have any chance in hell of being able to afford the repairs.
AT LAST, Josh’s new video! I’ve grown to really look forward to every video you produce, Josh! They are all very high quality, with excellent technical content.
I just started watching this one. 😁
"Three stories or more..."
I wonder if that includes buildings with 'special penthouse units that don't count as an additional floor'...
Yeah, but it collapsed from the bottom. So that didn't cause it.
How these HOA organizations functioned with how they handled the structure of a building is mind blowing. It was so dysfunctional that I'm surprised that only one building has collapsed and so many people have died. I just empathize so much with the family members of those that perished. If my family member died in that building and upon discovery of this information. I would be so angry.
Most of the families are also the same people in the HOA who put off repairs, and didnt want to pay for anything, Looks like another case of trying to blame others for your own wrongdoings, which is rife in society these days.
Members in the HOA are basically the residents of the building, just like everybody else living there. Board members are often unpaid but have to do a lot of the work like a property manager and carry huge responsibilities. It's another full-time job. Most of the time they get harassed and criticized for every little thing and when an assessment is proposed. Neighbors usually don't appreciate and just know how to complain. Also, in my opinion, the efficiency of the HOA largely depends on the quality and personality of all board members. It's extremely hard to work with board members who don't know and refuse to learn and refuse to be open-minded.
@@KL-kj9ml And that's why I'd never live in a building with an HOA in charge. No thanks.
@@KL-kj9ml I’m an owner of two separate HOAs and you nailed it! Anyone that has been a member of a BOD of an HOA knows exactly what you are talking about
lol yeah, a HOA populated with a bunch of rich people are laser focused on the money 🤑.
People are an afterthought, just another messy expense or cost on a spreadsheet. We should never, ever think for once that they give a crap about us.
Hey Josh. It's always good to see You and the videos You put out. ✌🏾
I appreciate that
Historically, as I know it, architects and engineers rarely agree on much. I wouldn't hire a designer to review a structure for its integrity any day of the week.
HOAs would probably agree with you, so if they have to pay someone, they might as well get their money's worth and hire a qualified person (unless they are right up against a deadline and will take anything from anybody that satifies the law).
@@campkohler9131 Problem is going to find those that are qualified to do so. You'll need and entirely new discipline to be given at higher education levels so you can attract more people to get into this field.
I've worked with architects and engineers that screw up new work. How are we going to find them capable of understanding this new science of aging structures?
There needs to be standards, training and further education so there are more "qualified" people conducting these tests.
Edit: Can you do more videos of your inspections, findings and recommendations? I want to know more about what's out there. Thank you for all you do. ❤️
In theory that education and certification is what a Professional Engineer or PE is. However, in reality, like most certifications, it's just a stupidly difficult test. Which can be sort of dumb.
For example, Electrical Engineering can be pretty different between sensitive component low voltage, household voltage, and actually high voltage. The "rules of thumb" are different. Yes EEs are taught about all of those in school, but they're massively different fields with different requirements.
Only one test though!
@@arthurmoore9488 I agree. I did ok through my 5 year apprenticeship to become an electrician and my NICET level 2 certification for fire alarm. Others tested far better than I did. But in the field I blew those guys out of the water. I was constantly fixing their work. Rather upsetting and proves the point that a "degree" is just a piece of paper.
Local union #26 for almost 30 years until my lung disease. I wish I could put the tools back on. 😪
Because it's not even a new science it's just basically ignoring warning signs in the first place.
In January our insurance company sent out an inspector to evaluate our roof. Our roof was fine according to the inspection and there was still 5 years on the roofs warranty. In March the insurance company said we would have to replace the entire roof by July 1 or be dropped from the insurance. I'd never heard anything like this before. We have the money to go out of pocket for it but what about the families that can't come up with $20,000 in 3 months for a roof? There's a lot of wild stuff going on with insurance here in Florida.
They are also doing this in Residential housing too. I believe it has to do with roofing lobbies saying materials older than 10 years can't be trusted.
Well, the gist of it is... The insurance company took your money for 15-20 years on a 25-year warranted life expectancy roof. So, the insurance company is hedging the bet and going to work it out so that at worst, they'll only have to insure a brand-new roof, that carries a risk assessment of zero. You replace the roof five years early under threat of insurance cancellation. If you try to get a new insurance policy, the current insurance company will relay its findings to your new prospective insurer about the roof condition and their reason for canceling the policy. Not only do the "Contractors who make the repairs" play games, but the insurance companies have their own games as well....
Ooh, can you go after the warranty? What happened between Jan-Mar?
@@additudeobx Buying insurance isn't like buying a sandwich from a local shop which will give you a free one after you buy ten.
Second, every insurance company as underwriting criteria e.g. not insuring a building that's more than 25 years old unless it's been rewired, replumbed and reroofed. If they've insured you for decades and you haven't updated your building they have the right to walk away even if you've been loss free. Remember, they took on the risk of loss (in exchange for premium) for all those years.
Third, insurance companies DO NOT share information between themselves...that's illegal. They do not even give each other loss history. It is only given to the insured or the insured's authorized agent/broker.
You have to remember that insurers base their rates and success on the Law Of Large Numbers. They insure a very large number of homogeneous risks and analyze results based on criteria such as age, construction, locale, types and size of losses. If they see that their bad loss ratio is driven by roof claims in FL then they have to deal with it either by raising rates or changing what is an acceptable risk. Not fun when it's you that's impacted but they're for-profit businesses.
To see how your insurer is doing just google it and "combined ratio" If its combined loss ratio is under 100% they're making an underwriting profit, e.g. for every dollar in premium coming in less than one dollar is being spent for losses, loss adjustment and underwriting/administrative expenses.
The insurance companies in Florida had a cough up over $1 billion in claims for that building. They have decided that they want to make sure of the properties they are ensuring are in serviceable condition. Apparently there’s a lot of buildings in Florida that are not being maintained properly.
Plus that billion dollars is going to end up in everybody’s insurance premiums going forward. Because that’s how insurance works.
Very informative and well presented as always, Josh. With the 1 year anniversary of this horrific tragedy coming up on the 24th, I want to again offer my deepest sympathy and condolences to those who have suffered and lost loved ones. Best Regards.
I was getting lots of door knockers saying “I can get the insurance company to replace your roof.” It was annoying. I’ve had it inspected twice by qualified, experienced roofers who I trust, and they say it’s fine for now.
When I moved my homeowners insurance to a local insurance agency, the woman who worked in the agents office told me I needed to re-roof my house,and she would send her son, a roofer, to give me an estimate. I said thank you no and got an inspection from a respectable contractor, who said my roof was fine. I passed this along to the agent, and she doesn't work there any more.
I wonder how many people fell for her crap.
@@Grandpa82547 Amazing that the woman thought she could keep it under the radar. No emails, no phone messages left with collegues, etc.
There's been many roofer scams going on in FL. I'm not sure where you live, but FL is currently going through a Home Owners Insurance crisis from Insurance company going bankrupt from these sort of practices.
Florida's existing laws make it very easy for roofing contractors and their attorneys to get huge sums of money from insurance companies. Roofers will have customers sign an Assignment of Benefits form, essentially giving all control of the claim to the roofing contractor and cutting the homeowner out of the loop. If the insurance company tries to deny a replacement roof as clearly unnecessary, the roofers work with local attorneys to sue the insurance company, and Florida law requires insurers to pay the attorney's fees if they lose. So now a roof that needed $5,000 in repairs or maybe a $30,000 replacement ends up costing the insurance company more like $300,000, since they owe for all the billed hours the contractor's attorney wrote up. As a result, several smaller insurance companies have become insolvent, and most of the major carriers are not writing new homeowner policies and not renewing existing policies. If your roof is 20 years old or older, it's highly likely that your homeowner's insurance will cancel your policy at the next renewal, because it's practically guaranteed to "need replacement," according to the contractors and their attorneys.
I got tired of running roofers/roofer's touts off my doorstep telling me that my roof which, I willingly admit was worn out and life-expired, could be replaced "at no cost to me", by claiming on my insurance. Insurance is for repairing _damage,_ not for things worn out through the passage of time, and what was pitched to me time after time after time was fraud, plain and simple. .... It was also a way to get a cheap and $4!tty roof.
I eventually replaced my roof, (which was about 27 years old, was in poor shape, but had never leaked), at a cost of about $9k, with some additional work, and a 25 year m&l warranty backed by the shingle manufacturer. It looks great, and it also stopped roofers ringing my doorbell! 😃
a major problem in the US is the material used on roofs, namely roofing felt shingles, after a few years they become very brittle, and when you try and replace one shingle, you end up with further damage as they split, break, snap, etc, so end up needing to replace the whole roof.
The solution is really simple. If you are an owner of a property, go above and beyond the minimums set by local government. Get an inspection done before to catch any problems early so you can plan for and schedule repairs. the issue is alot of properties are going to get caught with their pants down and all the "half assed" repairs they have been making like a little paint there, a little roof tar there, a little patch concrete here and so on" is about to catch up with the bad properties. The state of Florida needs to be ready to evacuate buildings and close them down until the repairs are done. we are talking about peoples lives here. The first years of implementation is going to be rough
Fortunately everyone in Florida is wise and honest, and always has been
and they all work together for the common good,
happy to see the world a better place for all.
Florida is plagued with substandard construction built on the cheap.
Boy , do I see a scam potential , on top of the original builder's crime.
I'm reminded of how Teamster Retirement Funds being used to build mob casinos. These funds will be raided.
Most condo boards are in over their heads.
My comments are shadow banned on YT. Ver 2.0
As a licensed architect in Florida I agree with your assessment..I personally would not go anywhere these inspections…qualified engineers for these types of structures should do them.
I am not in Florida or a condo, but love all your coverage since the first post on this topic(I love root cause analysis). I would love your perspective on how Florida inspection industry can scale to meet this level of inspections and keep the quality up - i suspect this is something the rest of the country will have to learn too as their building ages.
We've to have a general structural inspection every 10, 20 and 40 years. This year, because of Champlain Towers, all condos were forced to do that inspection.
Inspection companies charged more than 30 K per building to conduct this. They banked.
All because of the corrupt government of Florida, and they regulations lift.
It's weird you posted about this 6 days ago. I looked this collapse up to find your old video. It's been almost a year since I saw those videos but it still bothers me to this day for my negativity and rudeness towards you. whether or not that you see this comment or even would remember my last. I wanted to say I was sorry and what you're doing on here is awesome. Thank you for your time to make these videos and thank you spreading knowledge.
really appreciate your information and perspective...koodos to you !!!
Excellent comment: I worked in the infrastructure support staff of a university, and while I have a lot of respect for enlightened architects, there are architects who don’t have enough civil engineering training. Too many times we had to support structures which were designed for visual appeal, but not designed for durability and/or not designed to be maintainable. One instance was where the architect specified EIFS-like exterior finishing on the the underside of a cantilevered second floor. The construction firm followed the architect’s plan and told us (we knew anyway) that it would not last. Within two years the panels were sagging due to water intrusion. Anyone with even a little civil engineering knowledge would never have made a poor choice like that.
Josh, Wow. Just the first three minutes of this video you drop an excellent description of that roofing replacement legislation; how it's flaws were exploited, by whom, how, and why, and who paid for it. even going so far as to say, "i don't usually have a lot of sympathy for insurance companies", while acknowledging their status as generally a victim in this case - brilliant. I hate private insurance to the core; but at the end of the day until it is abolished, the costs will go to those who can afford it the least - those insurers likely just increased premiums from the bottom up.
I'm looking at home in Florida and have been told that insurance companies now require homes to have roofs newer than a certain number of years to be insured - regardless of materials used which seems truly silly. On the flip side I know of people who had contractors appear at their door after most any storm looking to examine their roof and take a cut of the monies from the insurance company to replace the roof. Their abuse is now coming home to roost it seems...
Wow, condo laws are so much different in Canada. Boards can't do their own reserve studies, professionals are required, and they're required more frequently. And how do they get away with waiving funding of reserves? Do they just hope they've moved out before a special assessment is implemented on the unit owners to replace some major component?
It's like speeding but for property losses. You underfund & just hope nothing happens. Totally legal here because in the US capitalism matters more than comminuty. The rights of the individual supercede the rights of a community. If the market wasn't rigged, theorhetically, the condos in poor financial shape would be worth less than the condos in good financial shape...but we don't have fair markets.
In the United States there’s different rules in all 50 states. In Florida apparently the board can just decide that they don’t want to keep proper reserves. Some of these laws come into affect because of lobbying by interested parties. Construction companies, lawyers, real estate agents, ECT.
How did they even sell any units? The bank/buyer wouldn't go for that, I wouldn't think.
@@neilkurzman4907 They're that stupid there? How do they even survive? I've seen minor stuff and wouldn't consider it after that. Not having any reserves is a HUGE no-go. I'd be suing for all costs (inspection and such) for not disclosing.
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 that’s the United States libertarian mindset. I can do whatever I want it’s none of your business. Money in my pocket is better than money spent on supporting infrastructure. If I ignore it long enough it won’t be my problem.
In many other states you’re required to keep the reserves. In Florida you’re required to keep the reserves unless the board votes not to.
I’ve lived in my condominium in New York for about 30 years. Over that time there’s been many assessments. Which pretty much tells me there was insufficient reserves. The last meeting though they said that they did have reserves to cover major items now.
The difference is my condo is in the multi story building. Failures were mostly leaking roof and siding.
I would argue that the Engineers should start their career in evaluating existing buildings for 10 years before they are allowed to move into new build design, so they can do the new design with that background of what can go bad when the buildings get old.
If I was an engineer... on that kind of stuff, I'd just say No Thanks rather than take the risk, such as Champlain... especially in this era, when we already know that... well, there are still many more Champlain Towers out there....
Yep. Engineers liability insurance for this is going to change as well.
Early on you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned lobbyists for influencing different aspects of this law, not to mention the 'general' wording and the obvious conflicts of interests, and how the law leaves the door wide open for contractors fleecing these homeowner's associations...But then again, it's Florida, so not the craziest thing to come out of it...:-)
Not all architects lack the expertise. A conservation architect specializing in modern architecture would be familiar with the structural issues and also have an interest in preserving the architectural elements of the building.
Which is a perfect example of what the engoneers are saying. Surface finish always comes second to the core construction. "preserving the architectural elements" has no place in this debate. You can pretty it up once we're done.
Also, need more better building code for anyone who is remodeling the unit and making sure they are not putting too much weight in the unit, like foe example, heavy tiles, tub, glass shower doors, granite top for kitchen
The more weight put in, the more stress to the cement foundation and fllors
Another great and informative video from you explaining things in terms we can all understand. Thanks Josh...!
Thanks Josh always interesting and well presented!
It sounds like the requirement for the building officials to notify is an attempt at forcing municipalities to have a department to handle the inspection and not just receive reports and store them.
Our condo board has no idea how much reserve funds are needed. The maintenance is either rising 10% or 95%
Then your board is failing you! I was on an HOA board during & after the market crash in '08 and I remeber having to argue w retirees about reserve funds for foreclosures. I believe it "paid off" to have sound financial records in the early days of the recovery.
@@mangos2888 Boy , do I see a scam potential , on top of the original builder's crime.
I'm reminded of how Teamster Retirement Funds being used to build mob casinos.
Fortunately , we don't try to externalize costs and
push them onto our children and those who come behind. Most condo boards are in over their heads.
I’m glad they are addressing these issues.
Well, I dare say you’re going to be doing a roaring trade for the next few years, Josh.
Thank you for your helpful insights and educating the general public. you are great at explaining things and laying it out in ways that are easier to understand.
As a very young woman, my first home was a townhouse in a 13 unit condo association.
When I fist bought, the ass. Fee was $250 a month. When I sold, $950 a month. Actually more than my mortgage payment. Also, many, many special assessments over the years.
I vowed then and there, that NEVER IN MY LIFE, would I be a part of a condo association, or homeowners association.
I am 71 now, and have kept that vow, and saved thousands in therapy fees !!!!
Yea! Josh is back!!!
Good thing no other buildings have collapsed, during the very speedy government process🙄
Yeah you don't want to leave it all to the HOA. People on HOAs want to keep costs down. People really like swimming pools to be open no matter what. CA needs to get tougher too. I am so glad you learned so much and share it with us.
Having watched "the Loiseaux Group" erase the Ocean Tower on South Padre Island before completion, it's very obvious that salt water and shifting sands make a curious environment for buildings. Living right on the beach is beautiful if the structure permits but that structure could well be of limited life. Just as a guess there will be condo buildings found in their next examination to be broken beyond repair and without any repair funds, probably some will have to be demolished.
There is absolutely no reason these associations must wait until the last minute to get this done. If they choose to wait until the last microsecond, I am sure that, for twice or three times more money, they can convince companies to improve their priority. Given a choice between buildings falling down and owner convenience or obstinance, I think the legislators chose correctly.
I would be surprised if most associations haven't already contacted someone for inspections.
You were talking about like 7 million at the start, and TWICE that a few years later. As I recall.
There needs to be a no decorating/repair rule in a period prior to the inspection. I agree that that only specifically qualified engineers should be evaluate existing structures, architects should not be allowed to conduct this type of work.
Don't we have expensive cameras to look inside walls and such...? Or anyone should be able to drill a small hole or series of to see how far back the damage goes, right?
Having a time frame for repairs which barely encompasses a design and procurement cycle is inviting the opportunity to get works started to meet the target date, then held over until completion of detail design or finding the resources can be concluded. Even optimistically beliving in best intentions you now have the opportunity for deferment and folks living in half remediated properties. Or all money spent on critical repairs with nothing left for future preventive works.
It'll probably be the professional liability insurance that keeps most architects from doing these assessments.
The reason why they have made it compulsory for the building official to send out notifications when the building is up for its renewal certification it’s because they can’t be trusted i.e. the condo people cannot be trusted to do their job unless they are forced to simple as that, if you’ve got two people saying this has to be done There’s a good chance. It will at least be done.
Have you considered doing videos about the Dolphin Tower situation in which a collapse was averted?
another quality presentation.
Regarding the records and record keeping: Set up an archive at the office and and additional location so that any new elected board member can have access to them and for them to be up to speed on the last two reports. This stuff as we've all learned is life and death so it must be taken seriously.
The insurance companies have almost always passed the cost of the post storm damages including roof repairs to the policy holders in the form of increased premiums in the future.
It is NOT a free roof!
In the short term it’s a free roof. In a long term it’s crazy high insurance rates in Florida. And a limited number of insurance companies willing to write policies there.
@@neilkurzman4907 Well said.
As a 25 year resident of a SE Florida high rise.
I can say the main problem is the boards being run by Snow Birds that always vote to pospone needed maintenance and repairs.
Let our kids desl with it , is a common statement.
Our 45 year old building has so much defered maintenance that we are paying the price today.
Of course the Canadiens and Northeast folks are crying hard .
They all need major upgrades. And that cost big bucks.
As a former HOA officer, I regret to say that HOAs are totally incapable of retaining the records necessary to comply with this law. I developed a website for my Virginia HOA, with the idea of preserving the Board meeting minutes of previous years. I was able to go back 3 years. Everything else was gone, without a trace.
Paper shredder. Lol
most interesting.. many questions;, if, after 365 days of a report showing repairs needed said repairs not done because of "busy" contractors,, what happens? are the residents evicted?, fined? and speaking of $$, the additional costs for all this will be huge. This will be very interesting to follow, thanks
Fortunately everyone in Florida is wise and honest, and always has been
and they all work together for the common good
It appears that the SIRS is somewhat generally similar to the PCA/FCA study. Great video !
I feel like people often don't understand that many civil engineers are incredibly specialized. Three years out of college I have former classmates who are mapping floodplains, designing landfills, modeling traffic, planning roadway projects, helping to update sewage systems, planning subdivisions and designed sea bridges. 😅. We are only vaugly compitant in these skills because we've been doing them for three years. They are generally not fungable.
I asked a similar question on your colleagues video, but how easy will it be to get E&O insurance for engineering or architecture firms performing these new studies? Will the inability to get such insurance keep some of the less qualified firms from doing these studies? After CTS, I would think insurance companies are going to be very picky about who they insure.
Amazingly we have not seen a change in policy costs for E&O insurance. We just shopped our insurance around and signed with a provider a couple weeks ago and our rates actually went down. And yes we are 100% accurate on our application... they know that 90% of our business comes from consulting for condos. This MAY change in the future... we will see.
Great job as always Josh! I agree with your review of the new laws 100 percent..
What I do see is that this is going to chase many people who would run for the board to decide not to run... my experience is that not many people want to be on HOA's... again, I agree with what you are saying but it will complicate things at the board level.. maybe you could expand on the implications of fiduciary duties and what would occur should those duties not be upheld for whatever reason....Prayers to those who lost so much at CTS-S
Nyc has some items that Parallel what you are talling about in their FISP program
It seems to me, a retired PE, that most coastal condos are doomed to failure because concrete, steel, and salt don’t mix well. I’d guess that spalled exterior concrete due to rusting rebar would be almost everywhere and I’d assume that fresh concrete over rusted rebar will not be acceptable in the future. Would you hazard an estimate on the percentage of condos within a mile of the beach that would require serious replacement of concrete and rebar after 25 years? 30%? 50%?
What basic materials would you use to design a beachfront multistory building today?
Another thought is how difficult is is going to be to get people to run for being on the board, we already have an issue. It really is a thankless job and many of the people who were on the board move after being on it.
Plus They are being handed the products of a crime.
gonna be fun
It should be absolute law to keep all the records for the life of the building!
Such a GREAT explanation! You are very good at explaining so that laymen can easily understand. Thank you so much! ❤
milestone inspection reports are suddenly going to grow in length by a factor of 200 in order to make it hard to parse by a layman.
Woo! Another video
Actually there is quite a long history of reinforced concrete structures in salt spray environments. Road bridges, which used to fail more rapidly. Since they went to coated rebar, the bridges last much longer. I hope they have updated the building codes. These things are ticking time bombs.
Josh, great video as always. Couple of questions/comments.
1. With these new requirements, would the collapse of Champlain Towers have been averted. I have my doubts.
2. It's left up to the expertise of the Architect/Engineer doing the inspection. I share your concern that unless an architect is specially trained they should not be doing it. In fact there are probably many engineers who also should not be inspecting older building. Does the new legislation require any special knowledge or skills of those doing the inspecting ?
3. Are there any new requirements on contractors and engineers who implement the recommendations of the inspector.
4. Any new requirements for long term monitoring to get a better idea of the condition or the ageing of a structure.
TBH, it just sounds like a lot of window dressing but with reducing the inspection cycles by the same people doing basically the same work.
And you have to find a inspection crew with integrity !!
The Property Inspection reports should also be required to be provided to prospective buyers - I wonder if the state should be the one to maintain them
I agree that many firms will likely chase the money not this and this likely will lead to future collapses as incompetent people pronounce defective buildings as safe. This will then lead to a rash of lawsuits which will make everyone hesitant to now do these studies which will lead to chaos. It would have been much better if the law had first encouraged the development of continuing education courses in this area of specialization to prepare professionals to competently conduct these inspections and tests and make educated judgements. I see this law leading to chaos in Florida in the decade ahead.
Also, very important yet subtle note that fire alarm systems are supposed to auto-trigger whenever the pressure within the fire suppression system drops meaningfully. I don't think many people are aware of that.
There is also a flow switch for each sprinkler zone that is intended to set off the fire alarm when a head opens. In many buildings it also sets off an exterior sprinkler bell.
There was a system alarm called in to 911 just before the collapse, likely triggered by the severed sprinkler line. A truck was dispatched and was en route when the building came down.
Bringing up to code: here in NZ, if you touch any wiring, all the wiring must be updated to code. Building structure codes are grandfathered, like you said, except for health and safety issues. On the other hand, insuring or renting out a building (residential or commercial) is difficult if it is far below the earthquke code, in particular. Shakey Islands ;)
Thank you for sharing another great analysis
Who should keep the inspection records? I suggest that it should be the Building Agency. The Agency should keep them for all condos, in electronic form, and charge each condo a couple of hundred dollars a year to cover server and storage costs. The Building Agency could offer - for another couple of hundred a year - to store all the other electronic records of the condo. Just so there is ONE place where unit owners, board members, management companies etc can go and find a condo's doco.
I think a good law would be… every engineering report should be required to explicitly say either there “are, or are not” significant safety concerns incident on this report… the degree of the hazard and the degree to which these concerns are urgent
Are there standards and practices for engineering on these buildings? If so have they been updated to address known issues discovered since the standard was originally adopted? I would reasonable expect that some of the past standards that have known issues now; should require curing the known defects in the existing buildings prior to any time triggered inspections.
the unit owners that kept changing the Board so they didn't have to pay for the needed structural repairs are to blame, they knew they had problems but chose to ignore the costly structural repairs.
But how does that change the obvious problems...? 🤔 That info would still be right there.
I seen a video of the work being done at the twin building to the one that collapsed and it looks like they had to add supports to that building.
creates more red tape . More opportunity for corruption more expensive housing.
When has more government ever helped in the last couple decades.
Criminals will always adapt and overcome.
Just my opinion.
I’ve worked construction all my life . Still working at 60 buying and personally restoring.
Love your show.
Nice, I was excited for an episode on this topic! Hopefully we can keep evaluating the new law and improving it. Sort of related, but have you ever considered doing a sort of historical episode about building practices and laws in Florida over the years? I've always heard things tightened up after Andrew but I don't really have any actual information on the topic and I'm really curious. Anyway, thanks again for another interesting episode!
I have worked in construction in Florida since the early 80's and I can assure you building codes changed drastically after Andrew. It seemed like every year or 2 they were adding more things or changing the way things were built or the materials we could use.
Codes changed again for new builds after the hurricanes of 2004. Florida had blue tarps on roofs for years.
It will be interesting if the architect's insurance carrier will allow them to do this, as they would be liable for any issues. 🤷♂
Knee jerking is usually bigger than the cause of issues.
No , just the regular kind of jerks,
When you have a building sitting on pillars of rebar and concrete that is open to the public then all you have to do is drill some holes into the pillars and add some explosives and BAMM down comes the building. It happens all the time called implosions. Maybe make all pillars exposed to the public must be constructed of steel thick enough to keep the building standing like they do for skyscrapers. But we have to consider the explosives available in the marketplace.
I saw somewhere (was it one of your videos?) that someone asked the front desk to activate the fire alarm. If that suppression line hat actually triggered it, i feel less people would have died or gotten trapped.
Regarding notification from the building official of the initial inspection to the association. to me its to put the responsibility on the city. Look at the incompetence in surfside. That will tell you all you need to know. Once any city is sued whether its succuesful in the suit or not, the state are able to interviene to get that city dept regularised like they do with local police forces that are corrupt or have issues .
It's funny how so many looks up to the US, but when looking in detail like this and with laws, law enforcement , healthcare. poverty, homelessness and education it's 30-50 years behind real 1st world countries. its really surprising.
The record keeping and passing on part is rather simple. OneDrive or Google Drive or whatever. Every condo owner should have a read access to it. And have a decent scanner to get the paper-only documents stored. Paperless is the only way to go here otherwise it becomes a bit of a logistical nightmare.
I have a hunch that if this is all done right you need a LOT more reserves from a much greater number of people than what the owners of any one building can provide. I bet you the math is such that if any of this is done right, the association fees will skyrocket and the condo market will go south. Not necessarily a bad thing. Most of these condo buildings is one big scam.
You own air. How dumbass*d is that?
Josh, any consideration from FL on laws to cover; hotels, office buildings, parking structures?!?! (IMO it should!)...or do we have to wait until a hotel collapses?! Thanks for another great report...looks like you might not have time to make this videos in the future!! Lol
I am Communications Engineer. But I like your 🎥 Videos. I have always like construction of all kinds. Thanks for hard work 👌 and your knowledge.
Is that a public speaker? 😂
Good ad for you.
QUESTION I'm confused. I don't know how to word the question well, so bear with me please. The funding study means what? Is that when you said the excel program set up to decide how much to put aside for funding of different aspects, must actually be done by an outside firm? I really enjoy watching your videos Josh! Always liked engineering. Thanks for another great video! Stay safe, Vickie
Thanks for revealing an unknown world to an old man !:-)
💜🙏⚡️
Good job, Florida!
Your theme music reminds me of 'Another One Bites the Dust'. Is there a song called "Living in a Legalistic Can of Worms"?
Well said ! - I Enjoyed this, cheers
Do you think from these inspections or scans you are talking about they can actually give an accurate estimate of the shape the building is in? I have a condo in one of these buildings built in 1989
Accurate is a relative term. Josh already said it would take infinite exhaustive tests, basically tearing the building down to the last pebble to be able to guarantee 100%.
IMO, the period between mandatory inspections ought to be shorter once a building reaches a certain age. Ten years between looks may be OK for (say) a 40 year old building, but I don't think it's OK for a 60 year old building.
Granted, there may not be too many condos that aren't demolished and redeveloped at 60+ years old, but IMO it ought to be covered off in the legislation.
You make a solid argument for NEVER living in a cement building. There's just WAY too much spin on these regulations.
Similarly landscape architects superseded by project engineer who may be if they are lucky knowing landscape service. But until one of them becomes an arborist. The concept drawing will never materialize nor mature into what engineer specified for.