The thing is, every subculture needs to be a little gatekeepy to maintain the core of the subculture or else it will disappear or turn mainstream. And mainstream is not necessarily bad, but a lot of subcultures are created to be a response or a "safe space" for those who do not fit the status quo, so to let the status quo in might feel like your safe space is not for you anymore. It's natural. However, what I will not tolerate is people who are using their high school/middle school experience as an excuse to be an ass to people who are interested in the culture. I was bullied in middle school/high school for being emo, but I'm an adult now and I have no reason to use my shitty past experiences to be a bully or rude to others for liking what I like.
It’s so weird to me that goth is trending. It’s one thing to find it and realize you want to be apart of it. But when it becomes a trend, it automatically dilutes itself down to reach more people thus losing its foundation as a subculture. When I was a baby bat many years ago, we didn’t have to label things goth because they just were goth. They were undeniably goth and there wasn’t that much of a trace of infiltration from other non goths and such. Now it’s so crazy that people have so much to say about a community and subculture that requires so little to be a part of. Either you listen to goth music or you don’t. People have taken the fashion as the badge of goth honor. Fashion comes later. Music comes first. And a lot of times, we goths dress the way we do BASED ON THE MUSIC WE LISTEN TO. All I can do is shake my head at these trends bc it’s not going to get better. Real goths know what is up. Non goths want to cherry pick regardless of how many people tell them what they’re doing is not legit goth. They just don’t care
i know around 3 "goths" in real life and none of them actually listen to the music... i try to show them music recomandations yet they show no interest. it feels lonely to see people who might have the same interest as you, and then get dissapointed... i don't look goth all the time so i'm not spotted for being goth all the time, yet the ones that don't listen to the music get flocked by people, not like it matters, but yall get the point-
I see you. Nothing gets to me more than some one who dresses Goth and dont Listen to the music its huge disappointment. Here I am hopeing to meet some one who like similar music as me and then they don't it can be a let down. If they mostly listen to Metal and are open to exsploreing Goth Music that is one thing. But if they mostly listen to Rap and Mainstream Pop. Then its is harder to look past.
Music for babybats and also the no Goths who are curious: Lebanon Hanover, Selofan, Secret Shame, Kaelan Mikla, Ghostland, Clan Of Xymox, Sisters Of Mercy, Boy Harsher, The Stave Church, Corlyx, Rose Garden Funeral Party, Drab Majesty. 🖤🦇🦇
Gatekeeping is the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something. So it makes sense that people would call us gatekeepers for telling them that they must listen to goth music to be goth. However, if we were really gatekeeping, we wouldn't be telling others how to be goth. We'd just laugh at them for getting it wrong. 🦇💀⚰
What I don’t quite understand is when non-Goth people tell me that I am not Goth, even though 90% of my music taste is I just don’t dress that way all the time it really drives me nuts that people don’t seem to understand that Goth is a music based subculture
Yeah people also seem to not want to understand that 80% of us aren't dressed to the tens everyday and that most of us live ultra mundane lives??? Like, goth isn't some "That Girl" aesthetic aspiration; most of us are busy with our 8-5 jobs. 🥴
Exactly. And those are the same people that if you mention Monica Richards, they'll give you this blank expression on their face as if you just asked them the square root of something.
people in society are obsessed with looks being the way to categorize people instead of getting to know people on a deeper level. just sad because subcultures were a way to get away from that mindset only to have these people infiltrate and take over.
Last time I went to a deathrock gig, around autumn, one of the elders struck me as the total opposite of a gatekeeper. They expressed so much happiness that young people are coming in and keeping our culture alive (or undead, lol) and seemed so grateful for babybat festivalgoers and artists, it was pretty wholesome. It's not difficult to get in and sure, some of us are probably a bit elitist, but saying that we would not be goth without the music is *not* being elitist, it's just basics.
I wouldn’t consider this gatekeeping. Gatekeepers are those who start with the “goth is not just the music, it’s the architecture,the arts, the ideology, the life style, the literature, the food, the artistic talent, the poetry, the philosophy, yadayadayada”. And I get their point, but they never explain anything. A goth doesn’t need to read Poe to be goth, doesn’t need to study Catholic churches architectual designs to be goth, they don’t need to be art historians, they don’t need to read foucault, they don’t have to hang out at the graveyard every day. They don’t have to political activists. It really icks me seeing these kids telling other kids that they can’t be goth. The subculture is all about self expression, love for the music, and yes, the aesthetics of it. But one shouldn’t force liking or doing stuff just to be part of something that was supposed to be for the already marginalized.
I think music is the main thing to be goth... And I agree with Cemetary Confessions... when they gave the example... If you take 1000 goths, You will also get 1000 versions of goth! I work full time and travel to work 6 am, so no chance I put on makeup then. But when I am off, I take most times the chance to put on makeup and my goth outfits. Mybe not as extreme as others, but I am also 55. I had my extreme days in my youth. You look fabulous! Happy Gothic New Year! 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
Hello. Fellow goth and metalhead. But I don't think it's gatekeepers when the facts are boiled down. Goth, Emo, and Punk were all music based. Same as Metalhead. If you listened to those Music genres and subcultures, you were those labels. That's what it boiled down to. It's not gatekeeping. It's just based on musical interest. You can dress all you want. That's fashion. Goth, punk, emo, etc. is a musical interest and not fashion. I'm Native American (Yoeme Tribe) and there's a thing going on in my tribe right now where they're not enrolling new names to the BIA (Bereau of Indian Affairs) even if you fit the blood quantum and everything and have the documents to prove and have a family member that's enrolled. That's gatekeeping in my opinion.
It's not really gatekeeping neither unless you're making correction on something that's being wrong categorized as such. Aside from that, the information for all these music subcultures are out there at the tips of one's fingertips and the web so it really isn't like back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s when info on these music scenes were scarce and hard to come by. So if one is truly interested and has internet connection, they totally could take advantage of that
I'm not sure where I fit. I love goth music and 90% of the music I listen to is goth. However, I've never felt comfortable dressing that way. I have what I would describe as a grunge aesthetic. Flannels, jeans, boots.
I mean 7 out of 10 I typically wear flannel and some black jeans most days lol. Most goths don't dress to the tens every single day because *gasp* we have mundane day jobs and do chores. You're doing great! 👍🏼
Really enjoyed this video. It’s very educational imo for me. Considering I’ve gotten a lot more into goth music so I’m kind of new to this subculture but I really like it so far although I’m still learning what bands are goth and aren’t goth
there was a new vid about subcultures posted recently and i had a beef with the author in the comments because this video spread SO much misinformation. basically they were saying that that metal is a music based subculture because there was subculture after music and goth/punk is a “subculture before music” and goth is a “literature and politics based subculture with a music scene” and they were dead serious. this reaction came from the “just listen to the music and youre goth” thing going on recently. basically two extremes (also I would call it ideology and not politics)
I'm a gatekeeper. I used to be a hardcore goth. It's not what it used to be. Being goth used to mean something. We were shunned by normies and made fun of. We could relate to eachother in our misery. Nowadays goth is just an outfit every normie girl puts on once or twice a week. It's been completely appropriated to be goth and lost all of what it stands for. Just as bad as dressing as a native american for Halloween in my opinion.
Totally get what you're trying to say (as a goth myself) but as a native american as well I think dressing as one isn't quite comparable to normies posing as goth (worse I'd say since ppl were genocided for being native) Very unfortunate tho that what it means to be goth has been broken down into just an outfit.
I was at school dressed “goth”, it was just a black t shirt and a chain on my pants. One of “Da Boyzz” saw what I was listening to, Viva Happy by Mitchie M, he was like “You’re such a poser. I know goth is music based, your not even listening to goth music.” Dude, I can like other things. Let me take a break from My Chemical Romance & Slipknot. I wanna listen to Hatsune Miku. I normally dressed goth but I woke up late and had no time to make a outfit.
At first (and still do a little) have a knee jerk reaction to this. Growing up I gravitate to more rock/alternative music or anything that boils down to “not country” (yay growing up in Texas) and I’ve always been a shy and closed off person who was never part of any kind of community because I always ended up feeling like and outcast even among outcasts and calling myself Goth just alway fit. I didn’t really know there was a separate full ass collection of music actually labeled goth! But everything else I did was very Goth in my mind. Mostly in aesthetic tastes, ideologically, literature, fashion (when I could finally choose my own clothes) everything else and it made be feel scared and outcasted once again because I was afraid I no longer “counted” I’m still looking into and trying actual goth music but it was still really weird to hear this was a thing because from all I ever knew, it was like, personality and taste based. Though it’s good to hear my favorite band (The Birthday Massacre) is in fact goth! And I’ve always listened to and loved evanescence. (Though I heard other goths online saying it’s not goth which makes me really fucking confused if true) I’ve also always liked “haunting” songs and music. Or like, the spooky sounding folk songs about that kinda stuff or that weird shit! You know the ones. Idk just makes me hella paranoid because I’ve always listened to music “that slaps” and that was my metric for adding it to my playlists
yepp agree its same about lolitafashion and visual kei. lolitafashion is a clothes but we have rules people say we are gatkeeping no its rules to help you. visual keis is music and clothes.
Yup Lolita has soooo many rules and I decided it's not for me. 🙅🏽♀️ Still appreciate those who do it tho and I don't need to wedge myself into that space! :)
yep. I appreciate the rules in lolita fashion, helped keep out many people that would've exploited the style for other unsavory reasons that went against why the subculture was created to begin with.
pulling right from google: "Generally speaking subcultures are defined as groups of people who share norms of behavior, values, beliefs, consumption patterns, and lifestyle choices that differ to varying degrees from those of the dominant, mainstream culture."! so without the base core Goth thing like THE MUSIC you don't have goth
It’s cool that you mentioned type of negative, cradle of filth and evanescence as favorite of yours. Just curious about your thoughts on the birthday massacre, and twin tribes
People can try being goth if they want to. But any of us that have been goth a long time, we know they will eventually grow out of it if it's just a phase or looking for attention. So yeah.. go for it if you don't like the music.. let's see how long that lasts.. lol
It's the looking for attention part that rubs me the wrong way. Like I'm talking people who only feign interest in it so they can perpetuate the "goth GF" or "goth thot" memes and are using the scene's core to get shallow validation. And they're the ones I don't mind "gatekeeping" because it's not really "gatekeeping" because the info is out there and it's free. The onus is on them to take advantage of the resources available if they're truly interested otherwise I'm not gonna go out of my way to help them when I know it's not for the right reasons.
@@KaiDecadence Yeah, that makes sense. I have to admit that I don't normally follow that stuff, so I'm not as exposed to it. I can't deny though that it bothers me that goths are being viewed by normals now as a fetish or even just that they think it means you are into kinks, and if someone is literally dressing up with the intent to BE the fetish, that bugs me. If it's a younger person with a passing interest because of confusion and trying to learn who they are, or even some personality issue from having a shitty childhood, I can feel some sympathy for that atleast.
My friend told me, that i am goth, and i was not even looked like one : D music man. it doesnt matter how you look, if youre a goth, you are. if you have soul that resonate with this music, you will listen to it and just... yknow, be goth, lmao.
My high school days were the opposite, I listen to alt/metal/goth music and people would wonder why I didn't dress up. All I did was wear a black jacket and buzz my head. Also I had the demeanor and personality of a "goth person" which didn't make sense to me lol @@alyssarayn
Okay.. what are people "gatekeeping"? Is it the label "goth"... ask yourself if a label really matters to you. To me, having been clubbing in goth clubs for around 30 years, the purpose of "gatekeeping" is to provide a safe space for people. I remember a major club in London, United Kingdom, where you couldn't get in unless signed in by a member or were a member yourself. To become a member you had to be recommended by a current member. It wasn't about music or anything like that but attitude, allowing people to have a safe space. Male/Female didn't matter what you were wearing, you wouldn't be pestered. I always used to say it didn't feel like a meat market. Maybe gatekeeping did exist in today's sense if it is the label goth, simply I never experienced it. Maybe it's more of a female thing. Only time I "dress up" however is when going out to a club. Never worn makeup. Majority of time I was in a corporate job wearing a suit/tie. Lost majority of my hair as I've aged. I still feel at home in the goth club. My advice to any baby bat.. don't feel you need to conform to anyone's expectations. Enjoy the music. Enjoy the style. Be comfortable with what you are wearing and be yourself. Just don't be a jerk and you'll fit in fine. Am I a goth.. really don't care even if my daughter calls me one.
Thank you and I love your content. I am greatly attracted to this culture and am looking for Gothic music that is me! I am experimenting with everything Gothic in order to discover more about myself and nature. I am in love with the aesthetics and more so the kindness, togetherness and level of intelligence that I have experienced with the Gothic people.
Like Scene and Emo, both are different but LOOK the same-ish we need Goth, and Gothic/or Spookycore or just say Alt if you are Not goth, like the bar for Goth is *LOW* like Just sometimes listen to the music (the rest is add ons, style choice)
Hear me out though being a metal head is about metal music. Goth has music, art, fashion, literature and even architecture. It has a much larger reach than listening to Bauhaus and the Cure.
Hi there, i am new here. Just found your channel here on youtube. It was a random suggestion by youtube about the Gothic subculture some days ago. Well, i used to be Goth back in my active days. In german we say "Früher war ich ein Grufti, heute ein Komposti." Or in short, i am turning 50 this year. And with age comes change. I would not consider my self as goth only today. Right now i would describe me as "Dunkelbunt" or Dark.. Bright. Because with the Internet, there is so much more new to discover, like new music or new people, like you. Without the Internet i would have never found stuff like Zuriaake or Mammoth Weed Wizzard Bastard.
Goth is a curios topic. Every word has its origins, and its not wrong at all to share that monolithic knowledge. in fact id say its a good thing because it invites people to appreciate good music. however, its fair to acknowledge that goth has not been consistently defined as a music based subculture, due to the effects of pop-culture, and how it dilutes its original source material. There are countless T.V. shows and Movies, with "Goth" labeled characters that do not reference the 80s goth bands, but merely dressed goth or alternative. Many people, found their identity through these characters, an identity, which developed their first real taste of self-confidence, freedom, security, and self acceptance in. all vital pillars of anyone's wellbeing. and that is what goth meant to them. is it fair to fault a fish for not knowing what land is? ignorance is not inherently non-virtuous. imagine if you had an identity for the majority of your life, and someone told you, your whole sense of self, is invalid, and they told that to you, in a mocking mean-spirited manner, why would you like them or listen to them? you may just disagree with them entirely out of self-preservation. Its one thing to share knowledge, its entirely different when its done with a mocking intent. i don't think you are targeting people unfairly who are simply ignorant to the origins of goth, rather people who are arrogantly denying what goth is after being informed where it came from. im just pointing out, that some other goths are informing people what goth is in a confrontational pretentious way, whereas i think goths should be invitational about what they are passionate about, rather than making something beautiful ugly. i also understand thats not the majority and does not represent the goth community as a whole. i realize thats not the point of the video, but i think this is worth saying. (also off-topic, im still working on your portrait Alyssa, im sorry its taking me so long, depression has made me less productive)
I mean, no one is going to tell you that to your face lol. I'm not gonna lie, "Cyber Goth" is not an actual Goth style, it's rooted in the second wave Industrial scene and one of the first misappropriations of goth. That said, while the style is not actually goth, one can still dress in that style and still be goth if they like goth music (actual goth music, not confusing Industrial music genres like EBM and Futurepop as "goth musc", this latter would make you a Rivethead).
@@justmarcin8555 Your right that styles can evolve but that is not what "Cyber Goth" is in relation to goth and it's very obvious by that by looking at the style itself. It really is rooted in Raver and Rivethead fashion combined. Hell the name it used to go by was called "graver" but when once goth clubs started getting taken over by DJs who would only spin Industrial music and rarely would play goth music, things got muddled and "cyber goth" was named the term even though it really had nothing to do with goth music. And aside from the look, the music that defined "Cyber Goth" was EBM (later "Harsh EBM"), Futurepop, Dark Electro, and Aggrotech music and what subgenres do these fall under? Industrial music. You wanna know what true evolution of Goth was? The 2005 Deathrock revival and 2010s "Nu Goth". You had these newer goth bands (She Past Away, Drab Majesty, Twin Tribes, Ash Code, Forever Grey, and Second Still to name a few) who took fashion inspiration from first wave goth but modernized it a bit making this minimalist style. This is what true evolution is. Take something from the foundation and tweak it a bit while still keeping the core there. "Cyber Goth" did not do this with goth, it did this with Industrial.
@@justmarcin8555 I'm sorry, do you mean that the confusion of "Cyber Goth" is just like how Goth gets confused with "E-Girl"? If so, yep lol Oh and Steampunk is not goth neither, Steampunk is a literary genre rooted in science fiction that emphasized anachronistic technology (usually in the 18th century). Eventually there were some bands who came out and made music that was inspired by the literature but it was never goth, honestly it was it's own subculture.
You're still a goth even if many people don't recognize you as such at first. But also be aware that those people who want "goth girlfriends" or whatever don't actually care what music you listen to.
You can still be a goth without dressing in the fashion within it. The music is the primary and if you genuinely enjoy the music, that's all that really matter. Only shallow people would consider you not a goth just because you don't dress it and honestly, I've come across more people who dress close to the stereotype but don't like the music and for that, they wouldn't be goth anyway so make of that what you will.
Yeah these fringe music subcultures are sort of in a weird spot as modern culure is kind of smoothed over. Idk. I love goth stuff, love yalls vibe and think you're mad cool, but I'm not one. I can't buy my way in. It's something you build and cultivate together, going to shows and speaking common languages, having a shared imaginary. It's cool. Sending in much love as a vagrant metalhead dork \m/
bro i know people who listen to melanie martinez and mother mother and use baggy black pants and call themselfs goth. i also know people who just listen to slipknot and say they are metalheads lol
its not just music based tho. This was long before you were even born. Theres goth music and theres just being goth. You can like both or just one. I know people who love what you consider goth music but dont consider themselves goth at all. Its definitely not just music based. Sorry but you are wrong and I really dont care what your followers believe lol
Google what is goth. It’s music based. Gothic is a describing term, someone can be gothic but not be goth. No one’s being forced to label themselves goth because they like the music. It would take the same amount of time to research that as it does commenting ur uneducated opinion.
A Goth is a fan of Goth music such as Post Punk, Darkwave, Goth Rock) We are not related to the ancient Visigoths. We are a music based subculture. I mean that's why we have Goth Nights and nightclubs. Anything else is gothic which is not related to the Goth subculture. Eldergoth from the early 2000s. Ain't nothing really changed. We are welcoming and accepting of people as long as they're respectful. People conflate correcting someone with being antagonistic or assuming that we are viewing them in a contemptible way. It's called "pulling your coat" or steering newcomers in the right direction. There is so much misinformation now in comparison to when I was reading blogs (from people in the scene) back when I was a teenager in 2002.
true, these days people think black eyeliner makes you goth xd
this, it's lost it's life and meaning :/ it's not gatekeeping to uphold the main points
The thing is, every subculture needs to be a little gatekeepy to maintain the core of the subculture or else it will disappear or turn mainstream. And mainstream is not necessarily bad, but a lot of subcultures are created to be a response or a "safe space" for those who do not fit the status quo, so to let the status quo in might feel like your safe space is not for you anymore. It's natural. However, what I will not tolerate is people who are using their high school/middle school experience as an excuse to be an ass to people who are interested in the culture. I was bullied in middle school/high school for being emo, but I'm an adult now and I have no reason to use my shitty past experiences to be a bully or rude to others for liking what I like.
Yup most goth events and clubs still dress codes even. 🤷🏽♀️
It’s so weird to me that goth is trending. It’s one thing to find it and realize you want to be apart of it. But when it becomes a trend, it automatically dilutes itself down to reach more people thus losing its foundation as a subculture. When I was a baby bat many years ago, we didn’t have to label things goth because they just were goth. They were undeniably goth and there wasn’t that much of a trace of infiltration from other non goths and such. Now it’s so crazy that people have so much to say about a community and subculture that requires so little to be a part of. Either you listen to goth music or you don’t. People have taken the fashion as the badge of goth honor. Fashion comes later. Music comes first. And a lot of times, we goths dress the way we do BASED ON THE MUSIC WE LISTEN TO. All I can do is shake my head at these trends bc it’s not going to get better. Real goths know what is up. Non goths want to cherry pick regardless of how many people tell them what they’re doing is not legit goth. They just don’t care
i know around 3 "goths" in real life and none of them actually listen to the music... i try to show them music recomandations yet they show no interest. it feels lonely to see people who might have the same interest as you, and then get dissapointed... i don't look goth all the time so i'm not spotted for being goth all the time, yet the ones that don't listen to the music get flocked by people, not like it matters, but yall get the point-
I see you. Nothing gets to me more than some one who dresses Goth and dont Listen to the music its huge disappointment. Here I am hopeing to meet some one who like similar music as me and then they don't it can be a let down. If they mostly listen to Metal and are open to exsploreing Goth Music that is one thing. But if they mostly listen to Rap and Mainstream Pop. Then its is harder to look past.
@@RealmofGothArts I’m not goth but for some reason listen to goth music.
@@johnwilson6913 more goth then the 'goths' who don't and thats funny-sad
Music for babybats and also the no Goths who are curious: Lebanon Hanover, Selofan, Secret Shame, Kaelan Mikla, Ghostland, Clan Of Xymox, Sisters Of Mercy, Boy Harsher, The Stave Church, Corlyx, Rose Garden Funeral Party, Drab Majesty. 🖤🦇🦇
Also Switchblade Symphony and Corpus Delicti.
Gatekeeping is the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something. So it makes sense that people would call us gatekeepers for telling them that they must listen to goth music to be goth. However, if we were really gatekeeping, we wouldn't be telling others how to be goth. We'd just laugh at them for getting it wrong. 🦇💀⚰
this! we are opening up our playlists showing you were to go for songs
What I don’t quite understand is when non-Goth people tell me that I am not Goth, even though 90% of my music taste is I just don’t dress that way all the time it really drives me nuts that people don’t seem to understand that Goth is a music based subculture
Yeah people also seem to not want to understand that 80% of us aren't dressed to the tens everyday and that most of us live ultra mundane lives??? Like, goth isn't some "That Girl" aesthetic aspiration; most of us are busy with our 8-5 jobs. 🥴
Exactly. And those are the same people that if you mention Monica Richards, they'll give you this blank expression on their face as if you just asked them the square root of something.
people in society are obsessed with looks being the way to categorize people instead of getting to know people on a deeper level.
just sad because subcultures were a way to get away from that mindset only to have these people infiltrate and take over.
Last time I went to a deathrock gig, around autumn, one of the elders struck me as the total opposite of a gatekeeper. They expressed so much happiness that young people are coming in and keeping our culture alive (or undead, lol) and seemed so grateful for babybat festivalgoers and artists, it was pretty wholesome. It's not difficult to get in and sure, some of us are probably a bit elitist, but saying that we would not be goth without the music is *not* being elitist, it's just basics.
I wouldn’t consider this gatekeeping. Gatekeepers are those who start with the “goth is not just the music, it’s the architecture,the arts, the ideology, the life style, the literature, the food, the artistic talent, the poetry, the philosophy, yadayadayada”. And I get their point, but they never explain anything. A goth doesn’t need to read Poe to be goth, doesn’t need to study Catholic churches architectual designs to be goth, they don’t need to be art historians, they don’t need to read foucault, they don’t have to hang out at the graveyard every day. They don’t have to political activists.
It really icks me seeing these kids telling other kids that they can’t be goth.
The subculture is all about self expression, love for the music, and yes, the aesthetics of it. But one shouldn’t force liking or doing stuff just to be part of something that was supposed to be for the already marginalized.
I think music is the main thing to be goth...
And I agree with Cemetary Confessions... when they gave the example...
If you take 1000 goths, You will also get 1000 versions of goth!
I work full time and travel to work 6 am, so no chance I put on makeup then.
But when I am off, I take most times the chance to put on makeup and my goth outfits.
Mybe not as extreme as others, but I am also 55. I had my extreme days in my youth.
You look fabulous! Happy Gothic New Year! 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
Hello. Fellow goth and metalhead. But I don't think it's gatekeepers when the facts are boiled down. Goth, Emo, and Punk were all music based. Same as Metalhead. If you listened to those Music genres and subcultures, you were those labels. That's what it boiled down to. It's not gatekeeping. It's just based on musical interest. You can dress all you want. That's fashion. Goth, punk, emo, etc. is a musical interest and not fashion. I'm Native American (Yoeme Tribe) and there's a thing going on in my tribe right now where they're not enrolling new names to the BIA (Bereau of Indian Affairs) even if you fit the blood quantum and everything and have the documents to prove and have a family member that's enrolled. That's gatekeeping in my opinion.
It's not really gatekeeping neither unless you're making correction on something that's being wrong categorized as such. Aside from that, the information for all these music subcultures are out there at the tips of one's fingertips and the web so it really isn't like back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s when info on these music scenes were scarce and hard to come by. So if one is truly interested and has internet connection, they totally could take advantage of that
I'm not sure where I fit. I love goth music and 90% of the music I listen to is goth. However, I've never felt comfortable dressing that way. I have what I would describe as a grunge aesthetic. Flannels, jeans, boots.
you're more goth than a lot of self proclaimed goths
I mean 7 out of 10 I typically wear flannel and some black jeans most days lol. Most goths don't dress to the tens every single day because *gasp* we have mundane day jobs and do chores. You're doing great! 👍🏼
you're goth. you dont have to dress a certain way to be something. gen Z's obsession over aesthetic over actual substance is strange.
Really enjoyed this video. It’s very educational imo for me. Considering I’ve gotten a lot more into goth music so I’m kind of new to this subculture but I really like it so far although I’m still learning what bands are goth and aren’t goth
There’s a huge difference between goth and gothic. Goth is music based and gothic is aesthetic based. At least, that’s how I always felt
sigh...why can't they just leave us alone. I do not go out of my way to infect other people's lives...why attempt to destroy mine?
there was a new vid about subcultures posted recently and i had a beef with the author in the comments because this video spread SO much misinformation. basically they were saying that that metal is a music based subculture because there was subculture after music and goth/punk is a “subculture before music” and goth is a “literature and politics based subculture with a music scene” and they were dead serious. this reaction came from the “just listen to the music and youre goth” thing going on recently. basically two extremes (also I would call it ideology and not politics)
Your make-up is always 🔛🔝
I'm a gatekeeper. I used to be a hardcore goth. It's not what it used to be. Being goth used to mean something. We were shunned by normies and made fun of. We could relate to eachother in our misery. Nowadays goth is just an outfit every normie girl puts on once or twice a week. It's been completely appropriated to be goth and lost all of what it stands for. Just as bad as dressing as a native american for Halloween in my opinion.
Totally get what you're trying to say (as a goth myself) but as a native american as well I think dressing as one isn't quite comparable to normies posing as goth (worse I'd say since ppl were genocided for being native) Very unfortunate tho that what it means to be goth has been broken down into just an outfit.
You really think dressing like a native american holds the same weight as pretending to be goth. Jesus christ
I was at school dressed “goth”, it was just a black t shirt and a chain on my pants. One of “Da Boyzz” saw what I was listening to, Viva Happy by Mitchie M, he was like “You’re such a poser. I know goth is music based, your not even listening to goth music.” Dude, I can like other things. Let me take a break from My Chemical Romance & Slipknot. I wanna listen to Hatsune Miku. I normally dressed goth but I woke up late and had no time to make a outfit.
At first (and still do a little) have a knee jerk reaction to this. Growing up I gravitate to more rock/alternative music or anything that boils down to “not country” (yay growing up in Texas) and I’ve always been a shy and closed off person who was never part of any kind of community because I always ended up feeling like and outcast even among outcasts and calling myself Goth just alway fit.
I didn’t really know there was a separate full ass collection of music actually labeled goth! But everything else I did was very Goth in my mind.
Mostly in aesthetic tastes, ideologically, literature, fashion (when I could finally choose my own clothes) everything else and it made be feel scared and outcasted once again because I was afraid I no longer “counted”
I’m still looking into and trying actual goth music but it was still really weird to hear this was a thing because from all I ever knew, it was like, personality and taste based.
Though it’s good to hear my favorite band (The Birthday Massacre) is in fact goth! And I’ve always listened to and loved evanescence. (Though I heard other goths online saying it’s not goth which makes me really fucking confused if true)
I’ve also always liked “haunting” songs and music. Or like, the spooky sounding folk songs about that kinda stuff or that weird shit! You know the ones. Idk just makes me hella paranoid because I’ve always listened to music “that slaps” and that was my metric for adding it to my playlists
yepp agree its same about lolitafashion and visual kei. lolitafashion is a clothes but we have rules people say we are gatkeeping no its rules to help you.
visual keis is music and clothes.
Yup Lolita has soooo many rules and I decided it's not for me. 🙅🏽♀️ Still appreciate those who do it tho and I don't need to wedge myself into that space! :)
yep. I appreciate the rules in lolita fashion, helped keep out many people that would've exploited the style for other unsavory reasons that went against why the subculture was created to begin with.
pulling right from google: "Generally speaking subcultures are defined as groups of people who share norms of behavior, values, beliefs, consumption patterns, and lifestyle choices that differ to varying degrees from those of the dominant, mainstream culture."! so without the base core Goth thing like THE MUSIC you don't have goth
It’s cool that you mentioned type of negative, cradle of filth and evanescence as favorite of yours. Just curious about your thoughts on the birthday massacre, and twin tribes
People can try being goth if they want to. But any of us that have been goth a long time, we know they will eventually grow out of it if it's just a phase or looking for attention. So yeah.. go for it if you don't like the music.. let's see how long that lasts.. lol
It's the looking for attention part that rubs me the wrong way. Like I'm talking people who only feign interest in it so they can perpetuate the "goth GF" or "goth thot" memes and are using the scene's core to get shallow validation. And they're the ones I don't mind "gatekeeping" because it's not really "gatekeeping" because the info is out there and it's free. The onus is on them to take advantage of the resources available if they're truly interested otherwise I'm not gonna go out of my way to help them when I know it's not for the right reasons.
@@KaiDecadence Yeah, that makes sense. I have to admit that I don't normally follow that stuff, so I'm not as exposed to it. I can't deny though that it bothers me that goths are being viewed by normals now as a fetish or even just that they think it means you are into kinks, and if someone is literally dressing up with the intent to BE the fetish, that bugs me. If it's a younger person with a passing interest because of confusion and trying to learn who they are, or even some personality issue from having a shitty childhood, I can feel some sympathy for that atleast.
My friend told me, that i am goth, and i was not even looked like one : D music man. it doesnt matter how you look, if youre a goth, you are. if you have soul that resonate with this music, you will listen to it and just... yknow, be goth, lmao.
Goths calling you a "Baby Bat". Yeah said the people who live in apartments or with their parents. While Baby Bat is living in her own house lol
Well I mean back when I was 14 haha people just call me a poser now cuz I’m not trad goth
My high school days were the opposite, I listen to alt/metal/goth music and people would wonder why I didn't dress up. All I did was wear a black jacket and buzz my head. Also I had the demeanor and personality of a "goth person" which didn't make sense to me lol @@alyssarayn
Okay.. what are people "gatekeeping"? Is it the label "goth"... ask yourself if a label really matters to you. To me, having been clubbing in goth clubs for around 30 years, the purpose of "gatekeeping" is to provide a safe space for people. I remember a major club in London, United Kingdom, where you couldn't get in unless signed in by a member or were a member yourself. To become a member you had to be recommended by a current member. It wasn't about music or anything like that but attitude, allowing people to have a safe space. Male/Female didn't matter what you were wearing, you wouldn't be pestered. I always used to say it didn't feel like a meat market. Maybe gatekeeping did exist in today's sense if it is the label goth, simply I never experienced it. Maybe it's more of a female thing. Only time I "dress up" however is when going out to a club. Never worn makeup. Majority of time I was in a corporate job wearing a suit/tie. Lost majority of my hair as I've aged. I still feel at home in the goth club. My advice to any baby bat.. don't feel you need to conform to anyone's expectations. Enjoy the music. Enjoy the style. Be comfortable with what you are wearing and be yourself. Just don't be a jerk and you'll fit in fine. Am I a goth.. really don't care even if my daughter calls me one.
I listened to panic at the disco and cried once. I guess I'm goth now 😂😂😂
xd
Thank you and I love your content. I am greatly attracted to this culture and am looking for Gothic music that is me! I am experimenting with everything Gothic in order to discover more about myself and nature. I am in love with the aesthetics and more so the kindness, togetherness and level of intelligence that I have experienced with the Gothic people.
Try Paralisis Permanente, best afterpunk spanish band. It's great :)
Like Scene and Emo, both are different but LOOK the same-ish we need Goth, and Gothic/or Spookycore or just say Alt if you are Not goth, like the bar for Goth is *LOW* like Just sometimes listen to the music (the rest is add ons, style choice)
Hear me out though being a metal head is about metal music. Goth has music, art, fashion, literature and even architecture. It has a much larger reach than listening to Bauhaus and the Cure.
Hi there, i am new here. Just found your channel here on youtube.
It was a random suggestion by youtube about the Gothic subculture some days ago.
Well, i used to be Goth back in my active days. In german we say "Früher war ich ein Grufti, heute ein Komposti."
Or in short, i am turning 50 this year. And with age comes change. I would not consider my self as goth only today.
Right now i would describe me as "Dunkelbunt" or Dark.. Bright. Because with the Internet, there is so much more new to discover,
like new music or new people, like you.
Without the Internet i would have never found stuff like Zuriaake or Mammoth Weed Wizzard Bastard.
clock that tea sis cus i really b forgetting it aint about the fashions
Goth is a curios topic. Every word has its origins, and its not wrong at all to share that monolithic knowledge. in fact id say its a good thing because it invites people to appreciate good music.
however, its fair to acknowledge that goth has not been consistently defined as a music based subculture, due to the effects of pop-culture, and how it dilutes its original source material. There are countless T.V. shows and Movies, with "Goth" labeled characters that do not reference the 80s goth bands, but merely dressed goth or alternative. Many people, found their identity through these characters, an identity, which developed their first real taste of self-confidence, freedom, security, and self acceptance in. all vital pillars of anyone's wellbeing. and that is what goth meant to them.
is it fair to fault a fish for not knowing what land is? ignorance is not inherently non-virtuous. imagine if you had an identity for the majority of your life, and someone told you, your whole sense of self, is invalid, and they told that to you, in a mocking mean-spirited manner, why would you like them or listen to them? you may just disagree with them entirely out of self-preservation.
Its one thing to share knowledge, its entirely different when its done with a mocking intent.
i don't think you are targeting people unfairly who are simply ignorant to the origins of goth, rather people who are arrogantly denying what goth is after being informed where it came from.
im just pointing out, that some other goths are informing people what goth is in a confrontational pretentious way, whereas i think goths should be invitational about what they are passionate about, rather than making something beautiful ugly. i also understand thats not the majority and does not represent the goth community as a whole.
i realize thats not the point of the video, but i think this is worth saying.
(also off-topic, im still working on your portrait Alyssa, im sorry its taking me so long, depression has made me less productive)
I dress darkly inclined but I'm also stating to fall in love with goth music, so eventually I might turn out to be a goth.
The only style I wear (on events only) is cybergoth, i m surprised no one called me a fake goth yet. XD
I mean, no one is going to tell you that to your face lol. I'm not gonna lie, "Cyber Goth" is not an actual Goth style, it's rooted in the second wave Industrial scene and one of the first misappropriations of goth. That said, while the style is not actually goth, one can still dress in that style and still be goth if they like goth music (actual goth music, not confusing Industrial music genres like EBM and Futurepop as "goth musc", this latter would make you a Rivethead).
@@KaiDecadence bah, I mean styles do evolve though, even steampunk belong to the subculture. This kind of Darwing Law, you evolve or you desapear.
@@justmarcin8555 Your right that styles can evolve but that is not what "Cyber Goth" is in relation to goth and it's very obvious by that by looking at the style itself. It really is rooted in Raver and Rivethead fashion combined. Hell the name it used to go by was called "graver" but when once goth clubs started getting taken over by DJs who would only spin Industrial music and rarely would play goth music, things got muddled and "cyber goth" was named the term even though it really had nothing to do with goth music.
And aside from the look, the music that defined "Cyber Goth" was EBM (later "Harsh EBM"), Futurepop, Dark Electro, and Aggrotech music and what subgenres do these fall under? Industrial music.
You wanna know what true evolution of Goth was? The 2005 Deathrock revival and 2010s "Nu Goth". You had these newer goth bands (She Past Away, Drab Majesty, Twin Tribes, Ash Code, Forever Grey, and Second Still to name a few) who took fashion inspiration from first wave goth but modernized it a bit making this minimalist style. This is what true evolution is. Take something from the foundation and tweak it a bit while still keeping the core there. "Cyber Goth" did not do this with goth, it did this with Industrial.
@@KaiDecadence sounds like confusion between goth and Egirl.
@@justmarcin8555 I'm sorry, do you mean that the confusion of "Cyber Goth" is just like how Goth gets confused with "E-Girl"? If so, yep lol
Oh and Steampunk is not goth neither, Steampunk is a literary genre rooted in science fiction that emphasized anachronistic technology (usually in the 18th century). Eventually there were some bands who came out and made music that was inspired by the literature but it was never goth, honestly it was it's own subculture.
I've heard arguments on both sides. But the real question is--What if you listen to goth music but don't dress as such? 🤪
You're still a goth even if many people don't recognize you as such at first. But also be aware that those people who want "goth girlfriends" or whatever don't actually care what music you listen to.
You can still be a goth without dressing in the fashion within it. The music is the primary and if you genuinely enjoy the music, that's all that really matter. Only shallow people would consider you not a goth just because you don't dress it and honestly, I've come across more people who dress close to the stereotype but don't like the music and for that, they wouldn't be goth anyway so make of that what you will.
Yeah these fringe music subcultures are sort of in a weird spot as modern culure is kind of smoothed over. Idk. I love goth stuff, love yalls vibe and think you're mad cool, but I'm not one. I can't buy my way in. It's something you build and cultivate together, going to shows and speaking common languages, having a shared imaginary. It's cool. Sending in much love as a vagrant metalhead dork \m/
Baby Bats are the next Generation of Goths! Pls be nice to us qwq
I am middle age now I work hard and I wear my leather only when I go out the rest of the time I am just a sad bastard
Gotta love siouxsie and banshees 🙏
Do a tattoo tour pls
They’re all washable tattoos from cereal boxes and easter eggs
???
Haven't seen this on Tiktok at all, even being active on there daily.
bro i know people who listen to melanie martinez and mother mother and use baggy black pants and call themselfs goth. i also know people who just listen to slipknot and say they are metalheads lol
Very interesting video thank you 🦇🦇🦇
Is Goth not a literary based sub culture?
its not just music based tho. This was long before you were even born. Theres goth music and theres just being goth. You can like both or just one. I know people who love what you consider goth music but dont consider themselves goth at all. Its definitely not just music based. Sorry but you are wrong and I really dont care what your followers believe lol
Google what is goth. It’s music based. Gothic is a describing term, someone can be gothic but not be goth. No one’s being forced to label themselves goth because they like the music. It would take the same amount of time to research that as it does commenting ur uneducated opinion.
A Goth is a fan of Goth music such as Post Punk, Darkwave, Goth Rock) We are not related to the ancient Visigoths. We are a music based subculture. I mean that's why we have Goth Nights and nightclubs. Anything else is gothic which is not related to the Goth subculture. Eldergoth from the early 2000s. Ain't nothing really changed.
We are welcoming and accepting of people as long as they're respectful. People conflate correcting someone with being antagonistic or assuming that we are viewing them in a contemptible way. It's called "pulling your coat" or steering newcomers in the right direction.
There is so much misinformation now in comparison to when I was reading blogs (from people in the scene) back when I was a teenager in 2002.
OK poser.
@@alyssarayn I dont have to google something Ive been for 35 years sweet heart. Yall discovered something and think you own it. F*** off
@@Anonymous-wb3nz coward lol