I've had the exact problem in my shop here in the northeast US. The first thing I did was buy a dehumidifier to maintain a low humidity environment. That didn't make my garage any warmer in the winter so I fully insulated it amd installed a mini-split heat pump. This has an "away" setting to keep my garage at a constant 46 degrees Fahrenheit. Without the machines able to absorb deep cold, when I turn the heat up the machines no longer sweat and it makes it much more comfortable to work in year round. These three things have completely eliminated rust in my shop and I'm now able to comfortably work at all times of year. Another cheaper option is a better rust preventative than standard WD40. There are several out there that once sprayed on, evaporate and leave a waxy film that sticks to the metal better than standard WD. WD40 themselves makes such a product and it works alright, but I've used better. I hope these ramblings help 🙂
Thanks for your helpful feedback. From your response, and the others, I can see that I am going to have to attack this on multiple fronts. I think further insulation and better moisture repellent are going to be next. Let's see how far I have to go with this! I suppose the advantage we have here is that our winters are not as severe as yours.
Hi There, I insulated my garage workshop many years ago. Stays warm in winter and cool in summer - no rust problems. Did all walls, ceiling, door and floor. In Yorkshire, so can get pretty cold/wet/miserable out there sometimes.....
I had the same issue a few weeks back - started covering mill tables / lathe chucks / ways with oiled rags and covering the whole machine with an old bed sheet and a tarp. also got a small dehumidifier in the garage - this has helped but next on the list is to insulate the door like you did - I’ve also seen other guys install small low wattage (30 - 60w) heaters onto their machines to keep the machine above ambient temperature
A great way to deal with the matter. I often use old pillow cases that I soak in oil as a covering for my anvil and such. I prefer to use pine tar and turpentine just to keep things 'old school', but any oiled cloth is better than none! I like that the pillow cases are double-thickness, too, as they seem to last longer.
The U value quoted by that insulation type usually assunes that it is installed on battens with something like a 20mm cavity on either side behind plasterboard, so you get a significant contribution from the air gaps to the insulation. Even so it will be a massive help compared to bare metal. Painting the outside of the door white will help in the summer if it isn't already
Thanks, Paul, point taken about the air gap. I hope the triangular gap left by the struts will help provide something of a useful air gap. I also take your point about repainting the outside of the door. It was the worst possible colour!
It doesn't matter how big or small your shop is, I learned that when I moved my shop from a shed to a hall, still the same problems. What I also learned it isn't the cold temperature what let's the water condense, it's actually the switch from cold to warmer temps, I even had rust starting as early as Oktober, your machines have the coldest surfaces in the room and thats where the water forms, you can often see your breath condensating on an instant. My solution to this is a cheap diesel heater from Vevor, I point it into the general direction of the machine that I'm working on, turn it off when I'm leaving. Even the lowest setting is enough to prevent condensation for several days of shop neglect and yes insulating the entire shop would be nice, but costly, so 20 bucks for diesel a month it is during fall and winter, doing this for two years now and can highly recommend these things. Before I tried all the annoying and exhausting methods, up to the point where all my stuff was just greasy and dirty and I still had to clean rust off tools every week. Greetings from Germany Brian
Thanks, Brian, for your comments. I agree that condensation isn't an issue of a cold workshop per se but rapid temperature change. I hope that better insulation will slow the rate of cooling and heating. I think the latter is a reason for not having too much ventilation - but others disagree.
Hi Clive, I have a Yardmaster tin shed as my workshop. I've had the same issues with flash rusting when the weather suddenly warms up. A biker friend of mine recommended using ACF 50 anti corrosion protection. After 4 months of use, I can confirm it has excellent rust protection properties. It is an oily liquid that has more staying power than way oil, it is a lubricating oil, and as it 'dries' it feels more like a wet wax rather than a tacky oil. Costs around 30 quid for about a litre, so while not cheap, it works very well.
Thanks for this good recommendation. Sounds like you have already tested it more than I can before this cold season is out. I will add this to my list to try out - but not all at once because of the cost.
I insulated my garage door with 25mm polystyrene sheet but that was many years ago. As for the rust, I have many woodworking hand tools as well as a few machines and tend to use Liberon Lubricating Wax which you can get from Axminster Tools. This keeps all the machines beds and slide ways rust free along with all my hand tools, even in a UK garage the same as yours. Hope this helps👍
On goodness. You made me realise how lucky I am living right on the coast of south Dorset, where frost is very unusual, and snow as rare as hens’ teeth. Rust is negligible. Even here though I finally got around to getting the stonebuilding insulated. I would always make that a priority over acquiring lots of machinery … am jealous of the latter! I guess we can’t have everything!
Fortunately my garage is quite dry, but it gets very cold. If I try heating it the biggest source of heat loss is the metal "up and over" so I insulated it with 1" polystyrene sheet bought from Wickes. I cut panels to fit between the various stiffeners and frame members, just like you did on yours. I used cheap silicone mastic to stick the polystyrene panels to the metal door. Not only did it make it easier to heat the garage, it also provided a good degree of sound deadening as well.
Thanks, Charlie. I wonder if my insulation will end up being less effective than yours. Anyhow, I how hope it will improve things. If after addressing the other insulation needs I find the door is still cold I might add another later. You may have the advantage of a drier garage!
I’m in a humid area on the beach east coast of Australia When I go away I spray rust preventative on table and cover with a sheet of kitchen cling wrap Standard cover and dehumidifier working the rest of the time
I had the same problem which I resolved with a specially made rust remover that simultaneously metal plates chrome/molybdenum/nickel/ cobalt/zinc to prevent re-rusting leaving a bright shine finish. I'll make a small sample if you would like to test it and report. repeated use builds up and seals surface porosity eventually eliminating the rust.
You are the only contributor who has their own corrosion prevention compound! I would be interested in trying out your secret recipe. Thank you for the offer of testing it and reporting on it. Could you contact me on workshopfriend@gmail.com ? Thanks!
I've just started to use a Meaco DDL8J humidifier in my double garage. It's a desiccant dehumidifier so not as efficient as a compressor but works better at low temperatures. After running it for a few weeks the whole garage feels dryer e.g. the self levelling compound on the floor (no DPC over concrete) feels warmer and dryer. One advantage is that it also puts out warmer air - output is about 20C with ambient of 8C. Not enough to make the garage shirt sleeve comfortable but it takes the edge off. It draws about 350W, so not stupid expensive to run. The small reservoir needs emptying twice a day.
I'm very lucky in that my workshop is an integral part of my house, fully lined, insulated and plasterboarded. It did have an up and over door like yours but I replaced it with a fully insulated roller door. Much more secure than the old door and thermally efficient. It is effectively a fourth wall. I would recommend fitting one of these if you can. My floor is concrete but fully damp proofed. I also gave it two coats of two pack epoxy floor paint. The temperature in there does not fluctuate more than 2 -3 degrees, summer or winter. I would definitely go with putting battens up on the brick walls and some form of board with insulation interposed. With sufficient ventilation/air bricks too. Then some form of heating. I think it is worth spending the time to create a benign workshop environment. For the owner as much as the machines.
Yes you are very fortunate, Carl! An integral workshop in a modern building will be warmer and drier. To have hardly any temperature fluctuation summer to winter sounds like a dream to me. On the other hand an attached garage would present a challenge for me - how to keep what should stay in the workshop out of the house! I think I should attack the other major sources of heat loss before I could justify that expense on a new door - as appealing as it sounds. Yes, the operator needs a little consideration too!
@Workshopfriend All understood Clive. In my old house my workshop was in a garage built of breeze block, the outside of which was rendered. Walls painted white with masonry paint, floor again double coated with two pack epoxy floor paint. One wall of the garage was shared with the house, so it picked up some heat that way. I had an electric heater in there too. Standard up and over door in that one. I never had any condensation issues in there either. Possibly due to the thick breeze block construction. The roller door in my "new" (now 12 years old!) shop I considered a good investment. It is so well insulated it almost constitutes another wall. And it is very secure. When I looked at the amount I had already sunk into my machines, tools, welding equipment and so on, it seemed a sensible decision to protect them.
I walked into my workshop the other day and my Adcock and Shipley was literally dripping condensate. I find covering the whole machine with a fabric blanket helps.
I have a workshop over in Cumbria, inside an agricultural building. My biggest issue has been rust. We've insulated the tin roof with Kingspan sheets and I've done my best to weather proof the building, but it's starting to feel like it's not enough. I believe a dehumidifier and some kind of temperature control are needed. I also use a thicker oil than WD to protect my machines and it definitely helps. Especially on moving parts like lathe chucks where WD comes off with handling and motion. Looking forward to seeing what else you try :) all the best
Thanks for your interest and comments. I would imagine that an agricultural building would be on the large side. How would heating and dehumidification work on that scale? I once stored my car on a friend's farm under a barn (ie not much in the way of walls) and after 3+ years when I returned it was in fine condition. I did the same in my dry garage (not where I am now) but the upholstery suffered. I assume that there is a balance between ventilation and limiting rapid temp change - or it is just that cars are less liable to corrosion than machinery.
@Workshopfriend it's a pretty limited size, probably a little larger than your shop. The big ones all have cars and tractors stored in them currently! It's incredibly disheartening to return to find so much surface rust, even with the small amount of damage it causes.
A common mistake is using WD40 as a protection, WD 40 is a water dispersion agent I use grease or heavy oil on all machined surfaces. All small parts go into air seal plastic food bags after oiling. Hope this helps Regards MikeN
Thanks, Mike. Yes something more suitable than WD-40 is now the order of the day! I also need to pay more attention to my measuring equipment - although so far it hasn't suffered in the same way.
@@Workshopfriend Hi, its Mike again. Just to add a other couple of tips which will help you out. 1) Get some oil impregnated paper from the internet, it's not that expensive Wrap your measuring equipment in it after further oiling. Then air bag it as previous reply. 2) For long parts ie. Vernier height gauge as 1) but use old bread bags and zip ties. 3) For Electrical boxes and dro,s put Silica bags inside the enclosures. DONT forget to remove the in Spring. 4) on the machines, after greasing, I try to cover them in plastic bags from old packaging, but you have to keep an eye on then because they can still sweat. 5) I use any airtight containers that I can lay my hands on for small tools, gauges etc. In short any sealable container or packaging will help keep the damp off the kit Hope this helps, it has served me well and saved a fortune in money and time. The only downside is the re cleaning and re packaging after use. Cheers and a Happy Oxidation Free Year, !!! Regards MikeN g
Dehumidifier helps though insulating garage will improve situation. Paraffin and then light coating oil will also help. WD40 ok for initial clean but not as the final coating.
I enjoyed the video as always.. so thanks for taking the time to make it. Same position here in Beverley, East Yorkshire. Will try first your garage door retrofit. 👍👍
I use two tube heaters that i have on a thermostat, being electric they don’t add to the moisture level if you can keep the temperature at a level above the dew point then it will reduce the onslaught of the racing ginger
Insulated my steel garage door with 2x 8x4 1 inch thick jablite polystyrene sheets used for roofs & walls costing about £30 delivered , one side has a reflective surface to push heat back into the workshop & it's easy to cut & fit into the door aperture triangular bracing also fitting flush with the same , then I used some small straps of punched roofing tie galvanised strip riveted on to hold it all in place . On the draughty top , bottom & sides I put some four inch heavy duty strips of polythene which leaves my 12 ft by 38 ft work space at a reasonable temp even when the outside is freezing , a small low output 250 watt heater with thermostat under my lathe keeps the machine at an even temp all through those chilly days & nights so very little flash rust now , hope this helps.😊
Thanks, Stuart. Yes, if I had thought of the foil covered sheets earlier I would have done the same. I am using these to fill in the eaves. I also like the idea of local heat for the lathe. Since arriving back in the UK I realise that I have a lot to learn about humidity and rust control!
Keep your machines oily. I have added two lots of insulation on my garage door. I have the same insulation as you but on my second layer I bought some 40mm superquilt multifoil thermawrap. It works a treat but would recommend you go right to the edges of your garage door. I can still open/close my garage door which is a plus. I used adhesive to attach it to the door and used the foil tape to seal the edges of it. An even better option although alot more expensive would be to ditch the metal garage door and have a solid wood one fitted which is what I was looking at maybe next.
Thanks, Steve. The slides on my mill are kept oily because I have a slow oil leak from the geared head. But it is true that I started to rely too much on WD-40 whereas before I used engine oil. I think I am going to end up adding another layer of insulation to the door once I have addressed the other obvious sources of heat loss. Yes, it is important to me too that I can still open the door.
I noticed an extreme amount of condensation in my garage about 4 weeks ago - this might be when this happened to you too? We had some consistently cold weather then it suddenly rose approx 13 degs. My tool box was coated in water droplets. Since then I have ordered a new garage door which will reduce the uncontrolled air flow and I’ve been running a dehumidifier. Good luck on your mission and hopefully we have less extreme changes of temp from now on.
Yes, it probably was at that time! The weather forecast is for a cold snap later this week so we will see what happens when it warms up again - now that the insulation is improved.
Yes, a big issue for all home workshops. I tend to use leftover engine oil from cans , drain them into a bowl and leave a couple of cotton rags soaking. I give all the machines a wipe over after use and certainly before autumn sets in. Also I buy cheap dehumidifier bags in packs of ten from Amazon or Poundland etc, they're good, work well and cheap enough to hang several around the workshop. My brother installed a full dehumidifier in his workshop and this is also a great solution. Many of my tools, spanners etc are hanging and a wipe over every now and then really pays off.
I feel for you, I had similar problems for years in a tin type shed, constant temperature is key. I never fully cured the problem until I built a new shed, old incandescent light bulbs burning near machines can be a good constant heat source.
New subscriber, nice looking workshop and equipment. Heres my 2 pence worth. That aluminium quilt is quite good, but when i purchased mine from Screwfix, it was compared to 50mm of polystyrene foam. Door looks great now, should improve heat loss. Ive used the same in my shed on the walls. Your garage floor is most likely very sandy concrete, with no membrane under it, concrete is porus, maybe needs sealing, or even skimming. Hopefully there is a brick damp proof membrane fitted on the walls. I use an electric Dessicant Dehumidifier from Oct to March/April, its a MEACO 8 litre, works excellent, target temp is 60 % RH, dry air is easier to heat, and feels better. Always set on ,owest setting, can assist on paint with drying as well, very quiet. Thanks for sharing, and im sure you will be rust free. Regards John
Thanks for subscribing! You are right about the quality of the flooring. Not only is it soft but I do not think it has a membrane. The walls, however, do have a dpc. I will try to get away without a dehumidifier depending on how effective the insulation and a little heating works out. We will see!
I started out with a cheap 8' x 6' shed and after a few days I found rust on my hand tools and my machinery. I solved the immediate issue with the installation of a simple 2kW oil based heater. It cured the problem when set to 20°C and I let the thermostat take care of how often to heat the small volumetric area. Later I increased the available volume by moving to an 8' x 12' shed. The major difference in the construction was the new shed was made using 22mm thick planks as opposed to the 12mm thick planks of the previous shed. The space between the outer wall and the inner wall, created by the supporting struts) was 60mm deep. I decided to use that space to insulate all internal surfaces of the shed and I used 25mm thick aluminium coated Celotex. All electrical wiring was provided at this point so the elctrician provided me with 6 x double socket outlets, 2 x 7200 lumen x 6' striplights and a 6-way consumer unit providing an additional 20% capacity over and above the two separate radial circuits supplying my machinery needs. I still use my 2kW oil heater to keep the shed comfortably warm at 20°C and I never see any rust on any of my hand tools or my machine tools. My main machines are a bandsaw that I use for cutting both aluminium, and wood. My CNC machine that I use for making items in Slate, Glass, Aluminium, Brass, Hard and soft woods and my Fobco pillar drill. I also have a range of portable tools like a Bosch Professional Tracksaw, A Makita combination set of hand drill and screwdriver, Pferd files, Pfeil chisels and a Veritas smoothing plane. Plus dial test indicators, calipers and all of the usual tools for measuring that you will find in any work area. I just do not see rust appearing on anything and put that down to the consistent temperature. I accept that the cost of heating could be onerous but as a pensioner (no winter fuel allowance nowadays) I find the cost to be, relatively speaking, affordable.
Yes I too have exactly the same door, which I insulated with the same material a couple of years ago. But I think the most important thing is to keep humidity down. Get a good old human hair hygrometer to monitor humidity, I find the digital ones quite spurious in readings. Then get a dehumidifier, the old ones are best as they are generally more reliable, also box shaped so you can put things on top. Give it a service, you will notice it's much nicer space to work in being drier. Someone else mentioned a diesel heater. I have one mounted to the side of my Colchester. This keeps the lathe slightly warmer, and acts like a radiator. I also position lots of blocks of steel and aluminium in front of the heater to absorb lots of heat.
Thanks, Constantine. It is a shame that you don't rate the electronic humidity meters/sensors. I was wondering about whether I could have automatic control of the dehumidifier/heating to save having it on all the time - or just rely on the humidistat in the dehumidifier. For me the challenge is that I go away sometimes and rust always seems to hit then!
@Workshopfriend I think the humidistat works fine, and I'm sure a better quality hygrometer will work well. It's the cheap ones I'm not impressed with...I also appreciate older analogue technology. But what I have on the dehumidifier is a plug in timer, from midnight to 9am. I also have a constant drain so I don't have to empty it. Yes, I am also out of the UK a few times a year, so a controlled environment is essential.
Hi Clive. I have in the past suffered with flash rusting in the various workshops I have used. In one the problem was particularly bad. I needed to do much remedial work to prevent damp getting into the space as well as finding a substance which actually did prevent rust. WD40 never seemed to work for me. A friend suggested a silicone wax polish, and this worked wonders. However I cannot find any one who still sells it. 😢 In my current workshop I use a liberal coating of “slideway” oil, which being nice and sticky holds firm and does not quickly dry out. Another game changer was replacing my steel up and over garage door with a UPVC roller garage door. This eliminated drafts and is so much more thermally effective both winter and summer. That aside, seeing the rust that has befallen upon you makes me want to rush out into the workshop to see what might have occurred during the mild, yet damp Christmas period. 🥴
Thanks, Andrew, for sharing your experience with rust elimination. Reading all the responses today I have come to realise that several of the rust protection products mentioned seem to include a silicone or wax component and that WD-40 isn't really suitable. So I will definitely be looking into that. At least two of you have mentioned the UPVC roller doors. That is not something I can contemplate just now, so I will have to find a get around. I live in a mild but wet part of the country. I hope your machinery was free of rust when you went to check it! C
@ I am pleased to report that there was no sign of rust when I went to investigate, despite the endless days of dank, mild weather over Christmas. Perhaps the UVPC roller door installed this time last year has worked a treat.🤔
I have a very similar situation in my workshop down here in New Zealand, with dampness, no insulation, climate etc. I've found that covering my machines with drop-cloths has really helped. I guess it stops the moist air getting to the bare surfaces and condensing.
Thanks, Jeremy. You concur that covering machinery is the way to go. I wonder if the drop-cloths stopped moist air from getting to the machinery or just provided another localised layer of insulation? I have had a similar discussion with my wife about her approach to placing a cloth under the lid of the saucepan when cooking rice; she understands that it collects moisture whereas I saw it as sealing the lid.
I use a small dehumidifier which is amazing , another thing to consider is the floor as I imagine most garages in the uk including mine don't have a vapour barrier fitted under the concrete slab. I would think most moisture in your workshop comes up through the floor. I think even painting the floor with a two pack epoxy floor paint would help.
Mark, I think you are right about the floor. I like the idea of the epoxy floor paint but it would be a lot of work to empty out the workshop - something, that if really necessary, would have to be a summer job.
What about covering the machines with old blankets? Allows breathing but may avoid excessive condensation. The cloth will wick out excessive humidity. Easy and worth a try while going for insulation and heating in the longer term.
As mentioned, covering the machines with an old bedsheet will stop the condensation forming, and a lanolin cased spray such as inox on bare steel will also help. A ceiling fan also helps by keeping the air moving.
I'm in Texas, 100 miles from the coast. that light rust makes me nuts. Only a couple times a year does it happen. I've got blankets to put over my machines, and we will see how this works.
I live in FL and after using WD40 for years, I recently tried the Amsoil Metal Protector (they have a regular and heavy duty.) It is a game changer. It more expensive but it lasts so much longer than WD40 and i think will be better and cheaper in the long run. I applied it 8 months ago and it is still working great.
You will need to make the door draught proof, as cold air leaking through the gap between the door and frame may be just as much of an issue as conduction through the panel door, possibly more so. Sealing kits are available from the usual online and DIY channels. If you combine that with a decent dehumidifier (£100 or so), you might break the back of it.
I oil all bare steel surfaces and use an old cotton bed sheets to cover - seems to work well Dont use poly tarps or poly sheets as they tend to sweat - I find cotton will absorb some of the humidity
Yes Peter, I am beginning to wonder if I should have thought more about how to support the insulation with an air gap? On the other hand time was of the essence. Perhaps I will have to review this when I have sorted out some of the other insulation issues.
I wonder if you place a pole across the top span of the garage door and drape a space blanket over it to cover the entire wall face whether that could help with leakage
I have 2 shops. One is large 24x48 ft and inside it a 12x12ft room. Inside the room is where most of my precision machines are. I've tried everything from the expensive museum wax to Boesheild T-9 and everything in between. WD-40 repels water but at the same time is hydroscopic. Just buy a gallon can of WD-40 and after months of setting with the lid closed pour some in a clear container and you will see the water in it. Most everything inside the insulated 12x12 room stays warm enough with one 4 ft Led light left on 24/7. The other two I turn off when I go in for the night. In the open area (24x48 ) I've had the same problem you are having. During the cold months you can see the water beading up on the cast iron and will rust in just a few hours. Like I have said I have tried all the best fluids available and still have a serious problem with rust. It seems that all the medication I take causes my touch to have acid in it. In other words anything that I touch will rust right through oil. The latest thing I have tried is to remove rusty finger and palm prints with "Kroil" So far so good but the week is not over yet. Humidity has been high and temps swing from 65 degrees F in the day to low 30's at night. To my understanding this is the worst conditions. I'll check back in in a few more days and report back about how the Kroil is working.
Thanks, Terry, for your detailed explanation of your experience with rust! I like the idea of your inner room for the precision equipment. Sadly I don't have room for that but, on the other hand, I don't need to try to insulate a large area. Thanks for the tips re WD-40; that it is hydroscopic seems counterintuitive! I can see that I need to look into some of the better products you, and others, have recommended. Yes, it would be good to hear feedback on the Kroil for dealing with finger prints.
I have wood working cast machines in poorly insulated workshop in Uk. I use machine wax from axminster as well as a t9 spray and garryson abrasive pads. Seems to do a good job. I would use them all day over wd40 as that is a water displacement spray
A curtain in front of the garage door could help to keep out draughts and the cold. I have that in my garage but I have a wood stove too so I can't say if it works without heating but I think so.
@@Workshopfriend yes the not proper sealing garage door could be the main reason. I guess you don't open the garage door often did you? Maybe you could install a more fixed type of curtain there without a rail wich takes room. That only works wenn you don't open it so often. Yes wood stoves are good but you need all things around. Supply of wood, space to store it, a chimney and so on. If you don't have all of this I would choose a diesel heater. They are now quite cheap, you can buy diesel every were, it needs not much space, produces an air steam which makes a equal heat, and you can program it, so it starts and stops automatically.
I don't know about this cold business. I live in subtropical Queensland but rust is still a problem , i spray my equipment with CRC longlife anti-rust lubricant and cover my equipment with old cotton sheets they absorbers moisture . Kit from down under
Thanks, Kit. Yes, I do remember having localised rust issues in Pakistan in the humid season - usually where I had left finger prints. Thanks for suggesting another brand of anti-rust lubricant. Covering of equipment seems to be a common theme.
I have the same problem. A couple of years ago, after a sudden change in temperature during the winter, all of my machine tools started developing condensation, despite my liberal application of WD-40 everywhere. The only way I can manage this issue is by running a dehumidifier continuously. Although I'm not happy about the extra electricity consumption, it's the only way to prevent rust. The ideal solution would be to insulate and renew the roof, but that is well beyond my current budget.
Thanks for your input. I agree about the cost of running a dehumidifier continuously. I am hoping that strategic insulation and draught proofing with better anti-rust products and coverings might cure the problem. Will see!
You could put solar panels on the workshop roof and feed their output, via an inverter, into an old-style thick brick storage heater. That way you machinary would always have some level of residual warmth to minimise to amount of dew collecting on their exposed surfaces. However, such an off-grid installation would not be cheap, but it is simple to install and at least you would have a warm workshop.
Interesting idea. I have had some experience with off-grid solar to know what the issues could be. Driving a heater sounds fairly straightforward. Several consecutive cold misty days could be a problem!
I do not use any heating in my garage/workshop in Beverley Yorkshire and use a dehumidifier which heats up the workshop a little and dries out the workshop at the same time. I get no rust at all on my machines> I am used to working with heated jacket and woolen hat during the winter months.
I had this problem before I insulated my workshop, I used 2" jablite on the walls after fitting 1"x2" tile lath to the walls @600mm centres (to match the sheet dimensions) and covered the whole with 3mm plywood with a wipe clean finish (caravan sheets) I used 3" jablite between the joists and sheeted the ceiling using the same materials. It now requires very litle heat to keep the workshop toasty warm, and Ifind my East facing (uninsulated) roller shutter doors pick up enough heat to keep the workshop fairly dry. WD40 will help to remove the rust, but also washes off the oil film which prevents it. When I went back to the workshop after my enforced holiday (2 months) there was little rust anywhere, but I do oil all the surfaces and wipe them down, and then cover the machines with a variety of old duvet covers! With your place being free standing you could put insulation on the outside, but this would entail a more durable finish sheet to cover the laths. What about a tubular heater to prevent condensation, 200 watt should suffice once the building is insulated and draughtproofed. does your up and over door have the draught strips on it? inside on the upper half and outside on the lower half to fill the gap betwixt door and frame? I have seen thin foam draughtproofing strips fitted to these to seal them. This is always a problem, and you have to ventilate as well, although trickle ventilation is sufficient. Parrafin and gas heaters release water into the atmosphere unless some form of heat exchanger is used. Warm air is the way to go, although my place is not sealed to the outside as there are gaps around the tops of the roller shutterswhich I class as "ventilation" In the meantime coat everything with light oil, and give it a wipe when you want to use it! If the walls are not cavity walls using internal insulation and a dpm is almost essential! if you look at my workshop refurb video you will see what I did in the slideshow of pics (shameless plug) Hope you get some ideas from this rambling diatribe! Phil, My week this week.
Thanks, Phil. Good to have you back in the workshop! Lots of helpful hints here. I noticed your wood stove in the corner in your latest video. looked very inviting. This morning, even my hardy youngest son was finding the workshop a bit too cold! I would love to do a thorough job of insulating what is really a garage, but space is limited and internal insulation would reduce that space further. I will do whatever I can, within reason, to improved the insulation, reduce humidity, and add some heating but it may not go as far as yours! Sealing of the door is on the agenda. I already replaced the lower rotten frame with concrete. I will look into the draughtproofing. Like your workshop I would have to go a long way run the risk of not having enough ventilation! Yes, I will look up your workshop refurb video. This seems to be the link for part 1: ruclips.net/video/j6-ErhZiYDw/видео.htmlsi=Hvhf3sWqKUcgz335 in case anyone else is interested.
Best product I've found to prevent corrosion, after many years using comercial, cosmoline, ACF50 mould and tool protector and home made melted candles mixed with engine or chainsaw bar oil, is Wire rope and chain spray lubricant, its tenacious stuff and will collect dust if not covered with rags or sheet. Used to use wd40 as temporary measure on my SB heavy 10 but during humid weather you would see rust developing within 24 hours. All these old machine tools need preserving, and sometimes the filthy plastered in dirt ,oil and old grease ones are in superb condition underneath the muck, sort self preservation like oil leaks on old cars .
Sounds like you have much experience. Wire rope and chain spray lub sounds quite heavy. Thanks for the suggestions! I agree with your point about oil and dirt encrusted machinery!
Hi! I have a set up similar to yours, small garage with big shutter. I was gifted by a friend of mine of one spray can of ACF-50, that stuff is great to prevent rust. It is slightly sticky and stays on the machines way longer than wd40. I truly recommend it
Just a thought for you. Is it worth chucking an old quilt or something over the larger mass items too? I need to do this on my 3/4 size steam tractor this time of year.
I have the same issue in my shop in the south east US, I'd be interested in what you think in a month or so if you see any benefits. Thanks for sharing
Im also in the uk and have found that wd40 doesn't really cut it the best thing I ever did was swop from water based cutting oil to oil based cutting fluid
Yep, the water soluble stuff has tons of downsides. The thick dark heavy stuff is the ticket. Not great with flood or mist coolant systems though obvs. 😉
Yes, I have been using my cutting oil neat but it has attacked the paint on my lathe (not good quality which I applied myself). Perhaps I need to try something else!
Morning, rust us a constant issue for me too. I run two dehumidifiers which remove gallons of water. I have thought about low power heating on the castings but have not come up with a good solution. WD 40 is good but doesn't seem to stay around, i have seen some other applications that leave a residue but that is also a trade off. Keeping the castings warm somehow must be the best way but how? Good video
It's an Adcock & Shipley No1AG (1963) ISO40 taper spindle speeds 50 - 2,500rpm with pulleys and gears. Table 26in x 7in. Long trav 10in x transverse trav 6in x vertical 10in.
Another vote for Duck Oil here! Dehumidifier helps but won’t deal with the swings we’ve had in Scotland this year from below freezing to 11 Deg C in a night.. nightmare!
Oooh - I feel bad for you. Fundamentally it’s as you say - the problem is ideally solved by insulation and moisture barriers. That addition was the best thing I ever did to my shop and since then no rust. Not easy or cheap to do, alas. Living where I do I have to have heat in the shop and so that, insulation and moisture barrier really takes care of it. When I didn’t have that, I WD-40’d everything, but also covered the machines in old oily cotton sheets when not being used. That really helped. Must be fabric - not plastic. Has to breathe.
Thanks for your comments. I realise that insulation of the door is just the first area to tackle. Will see how the rest of the winter goes! Thanks for the tip re breathable covers.
@@Workshopfriend something I just remembered - I have heard of people doing this and then also having a very small heat source - like a light bulb - 40 watts or so - under the sheet with the machine, which helps keep moisture off. That makes sense but of course I'd want to consider the fire hazard aspect very carefully. Top job on your insulation on the garage door. My up and over doors have insulation as part of the whole deal. Best of luck.
Thanks for your suggestions. Do you think they can really collect enough water and be economical to use? We use a dehumidifier in the house and it collects alarming quantities of water. I will certainly need to reduce drafts if I am to use one.
Almost any source of heat however small will probably help. A luxury option might be to divert a central heating pipe if your garage is attached to the house. Failing that perhaps an old fashioned paraffin heater. Plasterers used to use a single light bulb in a room to protect against frost but this was probably before the LED was invented. If all else fails I'm a great believer in cleaning everything with an oily rag.
An extension of the central heating to the workshop would indeed be a luxury option! I hope that better insulation will make heating more worthwhile. Thanks!
My shop's much the same. Some days, I can go out there to find standing water on everything, like someone had sprayed the whole place down with the garden hose! Being a smithy, I'm not too worried about my tools rusting, but I do have some "nice" stuff that I'd rather prefer stay "nice". One thing I've always been told is that WD40 is "hydrophilic" and isn't a good protection for bare steel surfaces. I use Boeing T-Shield as a result. WD can get you by in a pinch, but I wouldn't recommend it when there are much better products on the market. That WD will only add to the problem, imo, as it attracts moisture and gums up when the solvents in it evaporate.
Thanks for your comment. Yes, that is one of the big take aways for me - to use a .ore suitable rust prevention product. I will probably try out 2 or 3 for comparison.
Thanks, Lukas! I can see that this is going to be more involved than I first realised. I have a small gas heater but didn't use it much due to it adding to the humidity level/requiring plenty of ventilation. I assumed the diesel heater would require the same.
@@Workshopfriend Screwfix sell a thermostatic ceramic electric heater designed to heat a double garage sized space. Left on the lowest setting I'm hoping it will reduce stuff in my garage cooling down too much.
Condensation is complicated and each situation can be different. The root cause is cold steel and humid air. This can happen quickly under some conditions and one may not see the actual event with the water beads on the equipment. You can dry or heat the air or heat the steel or apply a wax especially table saw wax but many contain silicone and rarely result in wood taking stain and finish unevenly. Oils dont work very well as oil floats on water and the water will get under the oil. A thick coating of heavy oil can work sometimes but I heat the steel with heating pads or silicon rubber heating strips or pads, or magnetic block heaters but they produce too much heat. sometimes covered with reflectex or foam insulation sheets cut to size over the heaters. During extra cold weather the steel cools , then as the air warms the steel remains cold and condenses water. The steel can become completely wet for a few hours or a day or two. On my table saw i place a 40 watt plant heating pad with 2 inch foam then plywood during the winter. Each piece of equipment gets a heater of one type or another. Home store dehumidifiers are really terrible , you can tell because they remove so little water, they mostly heat the air and waste electricity. Commercial ones are good but they cost $1000. If your shop gets cold a cheap dehu will freeze up. Home ones are useless and a waste of money. Heating the air or the steel is the best. Throwing reflectex sheets over the equipment and some heat 100 watts more or less will help greatly if the shop has no heat.
Thanks for your insight into domestic Vs industrial dehumidifiers and cold air. Yes, I agree that the specific conditions affect condensation and that you can see it happening before your eyes!
The super fine rust is basically the same a firearm bluing once it is removed. Once everything developes that "patina" it will actually help keep itself from rusting in a more detrimental manner. An added bonus, the microscopic pits left after the rust is removed, trap and retain oil. Aiding in future preservation and lubricity of moving parts.
I have fought that for years, WD40 and motor oil will mix with water and rust. It looks like you have a brick shop which makes it even harder to keep dry. I have found that keeping the air above ambient temp is the number one factor. Keep good circulation for tooling, closed cupboards will rust stuff very very quickly! Good heave machine or hydraulic oil and lots of inspection/attention is the order of the day and DON’T heat the shop rapidly! ESP not with propane as water is one of the combustion products!
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I have propane for small jobs and a small heater. It is tempting to use it when it is very cold - but I rarely have for the reason you mentioned. Yes, I agree that keeping the temp above ambient is important.
A dehumidifier would be a big help. I have 2 in my shop that stay on 24/7. Also there are way better products out there to use to prevent rust than WD40. Not sure if you can get them in the UK. There is SP350 made by CRC and Boeshield T-9 developed by Boeing.
Thanks for your comments! Yes both SP350 and Boeshield T-9 are available. I have made quite a long list of products from the helpful input in this thread and will select 2 or 3 products to try out. Yes, a dehumidifier would be helpful especially one that has a reliable humidistat which can work over a wide temperature range so that it runs only when required.
I feel your pain I live on the west coast ( Ayrshire ) Iv got similar problems and it can really get you down. Fully insulating the garage and running heating would solve this problem completely. ( Yes I know this isn’t atall realistic ) Iv found covering the machines with a blanket makes a big difference, I run electric dehumidifier s but these don’t work in cold conditions as obviously the cold air doesn’t carry much moisture. I think you’re door would do much better with some 2” king span on it , your walls would need preferably 3x2” stud frames built and 2” king span+ plaster board and the ceiling the same only with thicker insulation. I accept the cost of this may be prohibitive and the loss of space too. Heating really isn’t out of reach now in the form of those little Chinese “night heaters” like lorry’s have had for years these are cheap fairly efficient and most importantly as there’s an external exhaust they don’t produce any moisture in use. Calor super ser heaters and the like do more harm than good as the moisture from combustion is the room and to be avoided. There’s a lot of u tubers running these heaters on black oil / diesel mix further reducing costs Hope something there helps someone and obviously oil everything ! Dehumidifier = awesome but only in warm air
I think the west is more prone to this problem! Fulltime heating is not realistic....I now wish I had added better insulation to the door but I didn't want to increase the thickness too much. Might add another layer of what I have already used. I will attack the cold spots one by one hoping to avoid the full works. It is probably less cold where I live. Your suggestion of the night heater is intriguing. Have looked up online but I couldn't see an external chimney. Will look into that more. Thanks for all your helpful comments!
First step is to insulate the shed, next get air circulation. I've had luck with a whirly bird on the roof. Next, Lanolin spray. Best rust protection I've used. You can wipe it down in summer / spring once the weather warms up. I've tried WD40, LPS2, LPS3, plain old way oil rubbed on everything. Lanolin does dry to form a tacky / sticky film, chips will stick to it but it's better than dealing with rust.
Insulation, seems to be one of the key solutions, so will work on improving that. I have never used lanolin and didn't realise until just now that it comes from sheep and or other wool bearing animals. I assume that it has to be cleaned off the lathe ways before use. Anyway, thanks for your advice!
@Workshopfriend I don't use it on lathe ways, just the not sliding parts. Ways are given a coating of way oil once a week and I have a bellows style cover on them. I haven't had to spray lanolin in a while though since I installed the whirly bird for air circulation. Try LPS2, it's a bit dearer than wd40 but you can probably use it on slideways as is since it's a lubricant as well
Clive consider using Inox rather than WD40. Inox does not dry like WD40 which is silicone based and dries out. My workshop in Brisbane Australia is insulated and we have had three weeks of rain coupled with 35degree days and 80% humidity. I checked my Colchester last week and no rust on the machine and topped up the ways and other parts with inox
Heart breaking isn't it. Insulation, Duck oil and a dehumidifier 24/7 seems to be working well in my small workshop. Make sure the dehumidifier has an external drain on it though as a good one will pull an alarming amount of water in 24 hrs
It is interesting how varied the responses are with some advocating for dehumidifiers and others not. I suppose each has to find what works in his/her own context. One thing is for sure I will be looking for a better rust inhibitor as you suggested.
I use 151 super grease on my bare metal surfaces. (Concrete garage) It’s an aerosol grease which stays on the surfaces unlike WD40 which I feel evaporates.
Three suggestions. First - buy a small space heater that can heat your shop up. The warmer the air, the more humidity it can absorb. Second - Buy a room dehumidifier and plumb the outlet to outside the shop (likely under the garage door). This removes the humidity in the air. Third - Stop using WD40 as your rust preventative for long term. Use a specific rust prevention spray such as Boeshield T-9 spray or similar. WD40 is great for short term rust prevention but is too thin to form a long-term rust prevention barrier. If push comes to shove, a wipe down with a rag soaked in light machine oil will do a very good job.
Thanks for your helpful suggestions. Definitely I will be moving to something better that WD-40 and will be trying to keep the average temperature a little higher - perhaps even with an electric heater. I will also be looking for a dehumidifier.
The biggest difference I made to my workshop was when I fitted a new roof and used 30mm thick insulated steel cladding panels, that keeps warmth in my workshop a long time as I use a wood stove for heat in their. As far as protecting my machines I use clean engine oil on a rag as WD 40 does seem to dry up after a while, if I still get rusting I wipe the oil off and spray on ACF50, this lands on surfaces as a purple coloured mess but quickly turns into a thick liquid that can be spread with a rag, used in the aircraft industry inside air frames ACF 50 kills off rust and corrosion, you can buy it in spray form on eBay. My new roof made the biggest difference as it keeps the warmth in during winter and prevents the wokshop turning into an oven during a hot summer. One last thing, no matter how you try you will always have some moisture content in the air inside your workshop, what you need when excess damp strikes is to speed up it's exit by having some form of ventilation as once a sealed place gets damp it will stay damp for a long time, so don't go mad sealing everything up air flow wise.
Hi, It's not a definitive answer but I find WD40 not ideal as a protector. I trend to slather ISO30 oil over my machines and get little issue with rust. It would be good to get a warmer workshop in the winter so I will try a diesel heater that my friend raves about!
Hi, WD40 or similar is no good for coating surfaces. It evaporates over a short period of time. Either use an oily rag or aerosol spray AC (Action Can) has an excellent range. AC 90 or anti rust film for longer storage. Also run a dehumidifier
Easy fix that requires no heating, leave machines covered in wd40 every time you finish using the machines and theirs is the big one, all your machines when not in use with an old bed sheet, this will stop rust on all surfaces. When you are in the workshop also run a 1.5 kw fan heater while you are in there, the fan heater pushes damp air over the element and burns off moisture. I also put 2inches of cellotex insulation on the back of the large garage doors, makes a huge difference differences to the temps and requires less energy to heat the workshop. I see you have put your own insulation up, it will make a huge difference
Thanks for your comments. To reduce the likelihood of corrosion I used to use engine oil on the lathe's bare metal surfaces and only in the last few years WD-40 thinking it would be more efficient. From all the comments here I now wonder! Anyhow, from now on I will be covering my machines and continuing to work on improving the insulation.
Try a thicker oil than WD40. Something that clings. I use cheap engine oil. Install a dehumidifier. Install some kind of heating with a thermostat to come on during the worst cold spells. I have just such an oil filled radiator in my porch to keep my plants above 4 degrees Centigrade. But be careful: 1kw of energy for an average of half a day for three months of the year could cost you £400 or more in a year. Keep it to a minimum. Put covers on your machines. I use fire blankets because I weld in the same area and I find them quite effective but I have no experience of alternatives. Of the above, the two that are most attractive on cost vs. performance grounds are a better rust inhibitor and thick covers. Good luck with it and please do give us an update.
Thanks, Mike for the feedback. Yes, it seems that WD-40 is going to be replaced with something more appropriate and I could see the heating bill getting out of control if I were to go down that route! I think some kind of covering for the larger items would be a good approach. As you say it has to be based on sound economics. I will give an update. Still plenty of cooler weather on its ways to put things to the test.
A message from North Yorkshire. WD40 is OK for cleaning but it is essentially a water displacement agent. It has very little oil in it. It is also prone to reabsorption of water after it dries. If you take wd40 anywhere near an aircraft workshop you'll be marched off. Do not use it a a rust inhibitor, ever. It will all just get worse. Use some gun oil spray or 3 in 1 maintenance oil. After cleaning cast iron beds I use boiled linseed oil which leaves a coating on. I think my vices are also coated in boild linseed oil. This was my grandads method and we used to live right near the sea in North Yorkshire Occasionally re apply. The best thing you can do to cut down on condensation is ventilation. Is your roof well vented. Mostly I just use 3 in 1 in the maintenance can.
Hmmmm..... My tiny workshop is in my 18' x 6' 6" garage. No insulation on any walls, no ceiling just open to the rafters and roof felt/tiles. No rust. Freezing cold, but no rust on my lathes or mill or saws. Where is all that damp air coming from in your case to condense on your machines?
Good point. I think part of the problem is the neighbour's soil level which has bridged the dpc on one side. This will be a summer job - I will have to find a way to either lower the level or install a vertical dpc. Also, I doubt the floor!
yeah same problem here. these are the things i have found over the years: 1) ventalation is your ENEMY. block up all vents, holes,, gaps around doors, anwhere air can get in from outside. you want NO airflow, becasue warm damp air moving about will just give it more opertunity to dump more wet on the machines. 2) WD40 everything liberaly after every use. i have never found anything that works better, even grease doesn't seem to be as effective. it's a shame they don't make a slightly thicker formulation. 3) pay attension to the wood you have in the shop as well as if you have damp it will start to go mouldy and some of those fungi can attack metal as well. MDF and manufactured woods can be bad for this, as can pine. inspect everything wooden you have in there, shelves, cupboards, boxes etc and paint them with oil based paint or varnish if they are showing any signs of mould. tropical hardwoods stand up best to damp. 4) if there are any cracks or spesific areas on the walls where damp is getting in a good quick fix is to paint over them on the inside with that gorilla liquid rubber stuff.
While I think I need to keep a small amount of ventilation, I tend to agree with you that the degree of ventilation I had was excessive and caused the machinery to cool too quickly and warmer humid air to breeze through afterwards. I have started to address that issue. It is interesting that you rate WD-40 highly while others on this thread don't. Interesting! You are right about the manmade wood products. For the first time I noticed some slight mould on one item! That is something to avoid in future.
@@Workshopfriend Yeah and if that mould touches something ferrous you get a nasty deep fractal rust pattern etched into it as the fungal hyphae spread out across it. There may be better things than wd40, I just haven’t found them in the UK. I tried that automotive spray wax oil that was supposed to have rust inhibitors, it did nothing apart form make everything sticky. various spray on greases that really don’t help very much against rust but leave everything a slimy swarf magnet. WD40 is easy to apply, easy to remove when you need to use the thing. Only downside of it is its not so good long term and it makes the shop smell of kerosene. Probably the ideal ventilation solution is something you can open and close so in the summer when condensation isn’t an issue you can open it up more.
I don't believe WD40 will work as the condensation will wash it off. I have clear coated (painted) surfaces that are not machined surfaces such as the outside of the lathe chuck. I also 3D printed various covers. I covered it in a video on my channel.
I've had the exact problem in my shop here in the northeast US. The first thing I did was buy a dehumidifier to maintain a low humidity environment. That didn't make my garage any warmer in the winter so I fully insulated it amd installed a mini-split heat pump. This has an "away" setting to keep my garage at a constant 46 degrees Fahrenheit. Without the machines able to absorb deep cold, when I turn the heat up the machines no longer sweat and it makes it much more comfortable to work in year round. These three things have completely eliminated rust in my shop and I'm now able to comfortably work at all times of year. Another cheaper option is a better rust preventative than standard WD40. There are several out there that once sprayed on, evaporate and leave a waxy film that sticks to the metal better than standard WD. WD40 themselves makes such a product and it works alright, but I've used better. I hope these ramblings help 🙂
Thanks for your helpful feedback. From your response, and the others, I can see that I am going to have to attack this on multiple fronts. I think further insulation and better moisture repellent are going to be next. Let's see how far I have to go with this! I suppose the advantage we have here is that our winters are not as severe as yours.
Hi There, I insulated my garage workshop many years ago. Stays warm in winter and cool in summer - no rust problems. Did all walls, ceiling, door and floor. In Yorkshire, so can get pretty cold/wet/miserable out there sometimes.....
Yes, I am sure that is the right approach. Now my workshop is full it would be quite a task to achieve that level of insulation.
I had the same issue a few weeks back - started covering mill tables / lathe chucks / ways with oiled rags and covering the whole machine with an old bed sheet and a tarp. also got a small dehumidifier in the garage - this has helped but next on the list is to insulate the door like you did - I’ve also seen other guys install small low wattage (30 - 60w) heaters onto their machines to keep the machine above ambient temperature
A great way to deal with the matter. I often use old pillow cases that I soak in oil as a covering for my anvil and such. I prefer to use pine tar and turpentine just to keep things 'old school', but any oiled cloth is better than none! I like that the pillow cases are double-thickness, too, as they seem to last longer.
The U value quoted by that insulation type usually assunes that it is installed on battens with something like a 20mm cavity on either side behind plasterboard, so you get a significant contribution from the air gaps to the insulation. Even so it will be a massive help compared to bare metal. Painting the outside of the door white will help in the summer if it isn't already
Thanks, Paul, point taken about the air gap. I hope the triangular gap left by the struts will help provide something of a useful air gap. I also take your point about repainting the outside of the door. It was the worst possible colour!
My problem, too. Thanks for the video, I'm looking forward to seeing your later ideas.
Thanks for your feedback. Yes, following the interest in this video I need to follow up.
It doesn't matter how big or small your shop is, I learned that when I moved my shop from a shed to a hall, still the same problems.
What I also learned it isn't the cold temperature what let's the water condense, it's actually the switch from cold to warmer temps, I even had rust starting as early as Oktober,
your machines have the coldest surfaces in the room and thats where the water forms, you can often see your breath condensating on an instant.
My solution to this is a cheap diesel heater from Vevor, I point it into the general direction of the machine that I'm working on, turn it off when I'm leaving.
Even the lowest setting is enough to prevent condensation for several days of shop neglect
and yes insulating the entire shop would be nice, but costly, so 20 bucks for diesel a month it is during fall and winter, doing this for two years now and can highly recommend these things.
Before I tried all the annoying and exhausting methods, up to the point where all my stuff was just greasy and dirty and I still had to clean rust off tools every week.
Greetings from Germany
Brian
Thanks, Brian, for your comments. I agree that condensation isn't an issue of a cold workshop per se but rapid temperature change. I hope that better insulation will slow the rate of cooling and heating. I think the latter is a reason for not having too much ventilation - but others disagree.
Hi Clive, I have a Yardmaster tin shed as my workshop. I've had the same issues with flash rusting when the weather suddenly warms up. A biker friend of mine recommended using ACF 50 anti corrosion protection. After 4 months of use, I can confirm it has excellent rust protection properties. It is an oily liquid that has more staying power than way oil, it is a lubricating oil, and as it 'dries' it feels more like a wet wax rather than a tacky oil. Costs around 30 quid for about a litre, so while not cheap, it works very well.
Thanks for this good recommendation. Sounds like you have already tested it more than I can before this cold season is out. I will add this to my list to try out - but not all at once because of the cost.
I insulated my garage door with 25mm polystyrene sheet but that was many years ago. As for the rust, I have many woodworking hand tools as well as a few machines and tend to use Liberon Lubricating Wax which you can get from Axminster Tools. This keeps all the machines beds and slide ways rust free along with all my hand tools, even in a UK garage the same as yours.
Hope this helps👍
Thanks, so much. You are the first to mention Liberon. Good to know there is yet another alternative.
On goodness. You made me realise how lucky I am living right on the coast of south Dorset, where frost is very unusual, and snow as rare as hens’ teeth. Rust is negligible. Even here though I finally got around to getting the stonebuilding insulated. I would always make that a priority over acquiring lots of machinery … am jealous of the latter! I guess we can’t have everything!
Fortunately my garage is quite dry, but it gets very cold. If I try heating it the biggest source of heat loss is the metal "up and over" so I insulated it with 1" polystyrene sheet bought from Wickes. I cut panels to fit between the various stiffeners and frame members, just like you did on yours. I used cheap silicone mastic to stick the polystyrene panels to the metal door. Not only did it make it easier to heat the garage, it also provided a good degree of sound deadening as well.
Thanks, Charlie. I wonder if my insulation will end up being less effective than yours. Anyhow, I how hope it will improve things. If after addressing the other insulation needs I find the door is still cold I might add another later. You may have the advantage of a drier garage!
I’m in a humid area on the beach east coast of Australia
When I go away I spray rust preventative on table and cover with a sheet of kitchen cling wrap
Standard cover and dehumidifier working the rest of the time
I had the same problem which I resolved with a specially made rust remover that simultaneously metal plates chrome/molybdenum/nickel/ cobalt/zinc to prevent re-rusting leaving a bright shine finish. I'll make a small sample if you would like to test it and report. repeated use builds up and seals surface porosity eventually eliminating the rust.
You are the only contributor who has their own corrosion prevention compound! I would be interested in trying out your secret recipe. Thank you for the offer of testing it and reporting on it. Could you contact me on workshopfriend@gmail.com ?
Thanks!
I've just started to use a Meaco DDL8J humidifier in my double garage. It's a desiccant dehumidifier so not as efficient as a compressor but works better at low temperatures. After running it for a few weeks the whole garage feels dryer e.g. the self levelling compound on the floor (no DPC over concrete) feels warmer and dryer. One advantage is that it also puts out warmer air - output is about 20C with ambient of 8C. Not enough to make the garage shirt sleeve comfortable but it takes the edge off. It draws about 350W, so not stupid expensive to run. The small reservoir needs emptying twice a day.
I'm very lucky in that my workshop is an integral part of my house, fully lined, insulated and plasterboarded. It did have an up and over door like yours but I replaced it with a fully insulated roller door. Much more secure than the old door and thermally efficient. It is effectively a fourth wall. I would recommend fitting one of these if you can. My floor is concrete but fully damp proofed. I also gave it two coats of two pack epoxy floor paint. The temperature in there does not fluctuate more than 2 -3 degrees, summer or winter.
I would definitely go with putting battens up on the brick walls and some form of board with insulation interposed. With sufficient ventilation/air bricks too. Then some form of heating. I think it is worth spending the time to create a benign workshop environment. For the owner as much as the machines.
Yes you are very fortunate, Carl! An integral workshop in a modern building will be warmer and drier. To have hardly any temperature fluctuation summer to winter sounds like a dream to me. On the other hand an attached garage would present a challenge for me - how to keep what should stay in the workshop out of the house!
I think I should attack the other major sources of heat loss before I could justify that expense on a new door - as appealing as it sounds.
Yes, the operator needs a little consideration too!
@Workshopfriend All understood Clive. In my old house my workshop was in a garage built of breeze block, the outside of which was rendered. Walls painted white with masonry paint, floor again double coated with two pack epoxy floor paint. One wall of the garage was shared with the house, so it picked up some heat that way. I had an electric heater in there too. Standard up and over door in that one. I never had any condensation issues in there either. Possibly due to the thick breeze block construction. The roller door in my "new" (now 12 years old!) shop I considered a good investment. It is so well insulated it almost constitutes another wall. And it is very secure. When I looked at the amount I had already sunk into my machines, tools, welding equipment and so on, it seemed a sensible decision to protect them.
I walked into my workshop the other day and my Adcock and Shipley was literally dripping condensate.
I find covering the whole machine with a fabric blanket helps.
Thanks Steve. Yes, exactly the same problem. I will be collecting old blankets!
I have a workshop over in Cumbria, inside an agricultural building. My biggest issue has been rust. We've insulated the tin roof with Kingspan sheets and I've done my best to weather proof the building, but it's starting to feel like it's not enough. I believe a dehumidifier and some kind of temperature control are needed. I also use a thicker oil than WD to protect my machines and it definitely helps. Especially on moving parts like lathe chucks where WD comes off with handling and motion. Looking forward to seeing what else you try :) all the best
Thanks for your interest and comments. I would imagine that an agricultural building would be on the large side. How would heating and dehumidification work on that scale? I once stored my car on a friend's farm under a barn (ie not much in the way of walls) and after 3+ years when I returned it was in fine condition. I did the same in my dry garage (not where I am now) but the upholstery suffered. I assume that there is a balance between ventilation and limiting rapid temp change - or it is just that cars are less liable to corrosion than machinery.
@Workshopfriend it's a pretty limited size, probably a little larger than your shop. The big ones all have cars and tractors stored in them currently! It's incredibly disheartening to return to find so much surface rust, even with the small amount of damage it causes.
A common mistake is using WD40 as a protection,
WD 40 is a water dispersion agent
I use grease or heavy oil on all machined surfaces.
All small parts go into air seal plastic food bags after oiling.
Hope this helps
Regards MikeN
Thanks, Mike. Yes something more suitable than WD-40 is now the order of the day! I also need to pay more attention to my measuring equipment - although so far it hasn't suffered in the same way.
@@Workshopfriend Hi, its Mike again.
Just to add a other couple of tips which will help you out.
1) Get some oil impregnated paper from the internet, it's not that expensive
Wrap your measuring equipment in it after further oiling. Then air bag it as previous reply.
2) For long parts ie. Vernier height gauge as 1) but use old bread bags and zip ties.
3) For Electrical boxes and dro,s put Silica bags inside the enclosures. DONT forget to remove the in Spring.
4) on the machines, after greasing, I try to cover them in plastic bags from old packaging, but you have to keep an eye on then because they can still sweat.
5) I use any airtight containers that I can lay my hands on for small tools, gauges etc.
In short any sealable container or packaging will help keep the damp off the kit
Hope this helps, it has served me well and saved a fortune in money and time.
The only downside is the re cleaning and re packaging after use.
Cheers and a Happy Oxidation Free Year, !!!
Regards
MikeN
g
Dehumidifier helps though insulating garage will improve situation. Paraffin and then light coating oil will also help. WD40 ok for initial clean but not as the final coating.
Yep,
Im up in Inverness, and been having the same issue with the pressure changes happening so fast.
I thought I was the only one!
I enjoyed the video as always.. so thanks for taking the time to make it.
Same position here in Beverley, East Yorkshire. Will try first your garage door retrofit. 👍👍
Will see....Thanks!
I have a workshop come store and have the same problem every winter, and I know what a pain it can be.
I am surprised at what a popular topic this is!
I use two tube heaters that i have on a thermostat, being electric they don’t add to the moisture level if you can keep the temperature at a level above the dew point then it will reduce the onslaught of the racing ginger
Insulated my steel garage door with 2x 8x4 1 inch thick jablite polystyrene sheets used for roofs & walls costing about £30 delivered , one side has a reflective surface to push heat back into the workshop & it's easy to cut & fit into the door aperture triangular bracing also fitting flush with the same , then I used some small straps of punched roofing tie galvanised strip riveted on to hold it all in place . On the draughty top , bottom & sides I put some four inch heavy duty strips of polythene which leaves my 12 ft by 38 ft work space at a reasonable temp even when the outside is freezing , a small low output 250 watt heater with thermostat under my lathe keeps the machine at an even temp all through those chilly days & nights so very little flash rust now , hope this helps.😊
Thanks, Stuart. Yes, if I had thought of the foil covered sheets earlier I would have done the same. I am using these to fill in the eaves. I also like the idea of local heat for the lathe. Since arriving back in the UK I realise that I have a lot to learn about humidity and rust control!
Keep your machines oily. I have added two lots of insulation on my garage door. I have the same insulation as you but on my second layer I bought some 40mm superquilt multifoil thermawrap. It works a treat but would recommend you go right to the edges of your garage door. I can still open/close my garage door which is a plus. I used adhesive to attach it to the door and used the foil tape to seal the edges of it. An even better option although alot more expensive would be to ditch the metal garage door and have a solid wood one fitted which is what I was looking at maybe next.
Thanks, Steve. The slides on my mill are kept oily because I have a slow oil leak from the geared head. But it is true that I started to rely too much on WD-40 whereas before I used engine oil. I think I am going to end up adding another layer of insulation to the door once I have addressed the other obvious sources of heat loss. Yes, it is important to me too that I can still open the door.
I noticed an extreme amount of condensation in my garage about 4 weeks ago - this might be when this happened to you too? We had some consistently cold weather then it suddenly rose approx 13 degs. My tool box was coated in water droplets.
Since then I have ordered a new garage door which will reduce the uncontrolled air flow and I’ve been running a dehumidifier. Good luck on your mission and hopefully we have less extreme changes of temp from now on.
Yes, it probably was at that time! The weather forecast is for a cold snap later this week so we will see what happens when it warms up again - now that the insulation is improved.
Yes, a big issue for all home workshops. I tend to use leftover engine oil from cans , drain them into a bowl and leave a couple of cotton rags soaking. I give all the machines a wipe over after use and certainly before autumn sets in. Also I buy cheap dehumidifier bags in packs of ten from Amazon or Poundland etc, they're good, work well and cheap enough to hang several around the workshop. My brother installed a full dehumidifier in his workshop and this is also a great solution.
Many of my tools, spanners etc are hanging and a wipe over every now and then really pays off.
I feel for you, I had similar problems for years in a tin type shed, constant temperature is key. I never fully cured the problem until I built a new shed, old incandescent light bulbs burning near machines can be a good constant heat source.
Yes, I am sure part of my problem is the building - not just the local climate.
New subscriber, nice looking workshop and equipment.
Heres my 2 pence worth.
That aluminium quilt is quite good, but when i purchased mine from Screwfix, it was compared to 50mm of polystyrene foam. Door looks great now, should improve heat loss. Ive used the same in my shed on the walls.
Your garage floor is most likely very sandy concrete, with no membrane under it, concrete is porus, maybe needs sealing, or even skimming.
Hopefully there is a brick damp proof membrane fitted on the walls.
I use an electric Dessicant Dehumidifier from Oct to March/April, its a MEACO 8 litre, works excellent, target temp is 60 % RH, dry air is easier to heat, and feels better. Always set on ,owest setting, can assist on paint with drying as well, very quiet.
Thanks for sharing, and im sure you will be rust free.
Regards John
Thanks for subscribing! You are right about the quality of the flooring. Not only is it soft but I do not think it has a membrane. The walls, however, do have a dpc.
I will try to get away without a dehumidifier depending on how effective the insulation and a little heating works out. We will see!
I started out with a cheap 8' x 6' shed and after a few days I found rust on my hand tools and my machinery. I solved the immediate issue with the installation of a simple 2kW oil based heater. It cured the problem when set to 20°C and I let the thermostat take care of how often to heat the small volumetric area. Later I increased the available volume by moving to an 8' x 12' shed. The major difference in the construction was the new shed was made using 22mm thick planks as opposed to the 12mm thick planks of the previous shed. The space between the outer wall and the inner wall, created by the supporting struts) was 60mm deep. I decided to use that space to insulate all internal surfaces of the shed and I used 25mm thick aluminium coated Celotex. All electrical wiring was provided at this point so the elctrician provided me with 6 x double socket outlets, 2 x 7200 lumen x 6' striplights and a 6-way consumer unit providing an additional 20% capacity over and above the two separate radial circuits supplying my machinery needs.
I still use my 2kW oil heater to keep the shed comfortably warm at 20°C and I never see any rust on any of my hand tools or my machine tools. My main machines are a bandsaw that I use for cutting both aluminium, and wood. My CNC machine that I use for making items in Slate, Glass, Aluminium, Brass, Hard and soft woods and my Fobco pillar drill. I also have a range of portable tools like a Bosch Professional Tracksaw, A Makita combination set of hand drill and screwdriver, Pferd files, Pfeil chisels and a Veritas smoothing plane. Plus dial test indicators, calipers and all of the usual tools for measuring that you will find in any work area. I just do not see rust appearing on anything and put that down to the consistent temperature. I accept that the cost of heating could be onerous but as a pensioner (no winter fuel allowance nowadays) I find the cost to be, relatively speaking, affordable.
Yes I too have exactly the same door, which I insulated with the same material a couple of years ago. But I think the most important thing is to keep humidity down. Get a good old human hair hygrometer to monitor humidity, I find the digital ones quite spurious in readings. Then get a dehumidifier, the old ones are best as they are generally more reliable, also box shaped so you can put things on top. Give it a service, you will notice it's much nicer space to work in being drier. Someone else mentioned a diesel heater. I have one mounted to the side of my Colchester. This keeps the lathe slightly warmer, and acts like a radiator. I also position lots of blocks of steel and aluminium in front of the heater to absorb lots of heat.
Thanks, Constantine. It is a shame that you don't rate the electronic humidity meters/sensors. I was wondering about whether I could have automatic control of the dehumidifier/heating to save having it on all the time - or just rely on the humidistat in the dehumidifier. For me the challenge is that I go away sometimes and rust always seems to hit then!
@Workshopfriend I think the humidistat works fine, and I'm sure a better quality hygrometer will work well. It's the cheap ones I'm not impressed with...I also appreciate older analogue technology. But what I have on the dehumidifier is a plug in timer, from midnight to 9am. I also have a constant drain so I don't have to empty it. Yes, I am also out of the UK a few times a year, so a controlled environment is essential.
Hi Clive. I have in the past suffered with flash rusting in the various workshops I have used. In one the problem was particularly bad. I needed to do much remedial work to prevent damp getting into the space as well as finding a substance which actually did prevent rust. WD40 never seemed to work for me. A friend suggested a silicone wax polish, and this worked wonders. However I cannot find any one who still sells it. 😢
In my current workshop I use a liberal coating of “slideway” oil, which being nice and sticky holds firm and does not quickly dry out. Another game changer was replacing my steel up and over garage door with a UPVC roller garage door. This eliminated drafts and is so much more thermally effective both winter and summer.
That aside, seeing the rust that has befallen upon you makes me want to rush out into the workshop to see what might have occurred during the mild, yet damp Christmas period. 🥴
Thanks, Andrew, for sharing your experience with rust elimination. Reading all the responses today I have come to realise that several of the rust protection products mentioned seem to include a silicone or wax component and that WD-40 isn't really suitable. So I will definitely be looking into that.
At least two of you have mentioned the UPVC roller doors. That is not something I can contemplate just now, so I will have to find a get around. I live in a mild but wet part of the country.
I hope your machinery was free of rust when you went to check it! C
@ I am pleased to report that there was no sign of rust when I went to investigate, despite the endless days of dank, mild weather over Christmas. Perhaps the UVPC roller door installed this time last year has worked a treat.🤔
Friend of mine got a large sheet of brown cardboard & lined it in the door frame work, problem solved, 🇬🇧.@@Workshopfriend
I have a very similar situation in my workshop down here in New Zealand, with dampness, no insulation, climate etc. I've found that covering my machines with drop-cloths has really helped. I guess it stops the moist air getting to the bare surfaces and condensing.
Thanks, Jeremy. You concur that covering machinery is the way to go. I wonder if the drop-cloths stopped moist air from getting to the machinery or just provided another localised layer of insulation?
I have had a similar discussion with my wife about her approach to placing a cloth under the lid of the saucepan when cooking rice; she understands that it collects moisture whereas I saw it as sealing the lid.
I use a small dehumidifier which is amazing , another thing to consider is the floor as I imagine most garages in the uk including mine don't have a vapour barrier fitted under the concrete slab. I would think most moisture in your workshop comes up through the floor. I think even painting the floor with a two pack epoxy floor paint would help.
Mark, I think you are right about the floor. I like the idea of the epoxy floor paint but it would be a lot of work to empty out the workshop - something, that if really necessary, would have to be a summer job.
What about covering the machines with old blankets? Allows breathing but may avoid excessive condensation.
The cloth will wick out excessive humidity.
Easy and worth a try while going for insulation and heating in the longer term.
Thanks, yes I start to cover my machines. Long ago I used to but somewhere along the line I stopped.
As mentioned, covering the machines with an old bedsheet will stop the condensation forming, and a lanolin cased spray such as inox on bare steel will also help. A ceiling fan also helps by keeping the air moving.
People Do Not Use WD 40 it takes off all the oil on your machines and tools
Thanks!
I'm in Texas, 100 miles from the coast. that light rust makes me nuts. Only a couple times a year does it happen. I've got blankets to put over my machines, and we will see how this works.
Yes, it drives me nuts too! I will be covering my machinery from now on.
I live in FL and after using WD40 for years, I recently tried the Amsoil Metal Protector (they have a regular and heavy duty.) It is a game changer. It more expensive but it lasts so much longer than WD40 and i think will be better and cheaper in the long run. I applied it 8 months ago and it is still working great.
Boeing T-Shield might also be an option to consider. I've used it to good effect around the smithy.
Thanks! Often more expensive ends up being cheaper in the long run.
You will need to make the door draught proof, as cold air leaking through the gap between the door and frame may be just as much of an issue as conduction through the panel door, possibly more so. Sealing kits are available from the usual online and DIY channels. If you combine that with a decent dehumidifier (£100 or so), you might break the back of it.
Thanks, Murray. I like the sound of this approach.
@@WorkshopfriendI added a brush type draught excluder to the bottom of my garage door many years ago, money well spent.
I oil all bare steel surfaces and use an old cotton bed sheets to cover - seems to work well Dont use poly tarps or poly sheets as they tend to sweat - I find cotton will absorb some of the humidity
Reflextix type insulation needs an air gap (1/2 inch min) to perform anywhere near its claimed specification. Cheers
Yes Peter, I am beginning to wonder if I should have thought more about how to support the insulation with an air gap? On the other hand time was of the essence. Perhaps I will have to review this when I have sorted out some of the other insulation issues.
I wonder if you place a pole across the top span of the garage door and drape a space blanket over it to cover the entire wall face whether that could help with leakage
I have 2 shops. One is large 24x48 ft and inside it a 12x12ft room. Inside the room is where most of my precision machines are. I've tried everything from the expensive museum wax to Boesheild T-9 and everything in between. WD-40 repels water but at the same time is hydroscopic. Just buy a gallon can of WD-40 and after months of setting with the lid closed pour some in a clear container and you will see the water in it. Most everything inside the insulated 12x12 room stays warm enough with one 4 ft Led light left on 24/7. The other two I turn off when I go in for the night. In the open area (24x48 ) I've had the same problem you are having. During the cold months you can see the water beading up on the cast iron and will rust in just a few hours. Like I have said I have tried all the best fluids available and still have a serious problem with rust. It seems that all the medication I take causes my touch to have acid in it. In other words anything that I touch will rust right through oil. The latest thing I have tried is to remove rusty finger and palm prints with "Kroil" So far so good but the week is not over yet. Humidity has been high and temps swing from 65 degrees F in the day to low 30's at night. To my understanding this is the worst conditions. I'll check back in in a few more days and report back about how the Kroil is working.
Thanks, Terry, for your detailed explanation of your experience with rust! I like the idea of your inner room for the precision equipment. Sadly I don't have room for that but, on the other hand, I don't need to try to insulate a large area.
Thanks for the tips re WD-40; that it is hydroscopic seems counterintuitive! I can see that I need to look into some of the better products you, and others, have recommended.
Yes, it would be good to hear feedback on the Kroil for dealing with finger prints.
I have wood working cast machines in poorly insulated workshop in Uk. I use machine wax from axminster as well as a t9 spray and garryson abrasive pads. Seems to do a good job. I would use them all day over wd40 as that is a water displacement spray
A curtain in front of the garage door could help to keep out draughts and the cold. I have that in my garage but I have a wood stove too so I can't say if it works without heating but I think so.
I think the garage door is a problem. I don't have a lot of room hence trying to make the most of the space. The wood stove sounds good!
@@Workshopfriend yes the not proper sealing garage door could be the main reason. I guess you don't open the garage door often did you? Maybe you could install a more fixed type of curtain there without a rail wich takes room. That only works wenn you don't open it so often. Yes wood stoves are good but you need all things around. Supply of wood, space to store it, a chimney and so on. If you don't have all of this I would choose a diesel heater. They are now quite cheap, you can buy diesel every were, it needs not much space, produces an air steam which makes a equal heat, and you can program it, so it starts and stops automatically.
I don't know about this cold business. I live in subtropical Queensland but rust is still a problem , i spray my equipment with CRC longlife anti-rust lubricant and cover my equipment with old cotton sheets they absorbers moisture .
Kit from down under
Thanks, Kit. Yes, I do remember having localised rust issues in Pakistan in the humid season - usually where I had left finger prints. Thanks for suggesting another brand of anti-rust lubricant. Covering of equipment seems to be a common theme.
I have the same problem. A couple of years ago, after a sudden change in temperature during the winter, all of my machine tools started developing condensation, despite my liberal application of WD-40 everywhere. The only way I can manage this issue is by running a dehumidifier continuously. Although I'm not happy about the extra electricity consumption, it's the only way to prevent rust. The ideal solution would be to insulate and renew the roof, but that is well beyond my current budget.
Thanks for your input. I agree about the cost of running a dehumidifier continuously. I am hoping that strategic insulation and draught proofing with better anti-rust products and coverings might cure the problem. Will see!
You could put solar panels on the workshop roof and feed their output, via an inverter, into an old-style thick brick storage heater.
That way you machinary would always have some level of residual warmth to minimise to amount of dew collecting on their exposed surfaces.
However, such an off-grid installation would not be cheap, but it is simple to install and at least you would have a warm workshop.
Interesting idea. I have had some experience with off-grid solar to know what the issues could be. Driving a heater sounds fairly straightforward. Several consecutive cold misty days could be a problem!
I do not use any heating in my garage/workshop in Beverley Yorkshire and use a dehumidifier which heats up the workshop a little and dries out the workshop at the same time. I get no rust at all on my machines> I am used to working with heated jacket and woolen hat during the winter months.
I wonder how much of the time your dehumidifier is on and how much it costs to run? Very rarely have I tried to heat my workshop so also wrap up.
I had this problem before I insulated my workshop, I used 2" jablite on the walls after fitting 1"x2" tile lath to the walls @600mm centres (to match the sheet dimensions) and covered the whole with 3mm plywood with a wipe clean finish (caravan sheets) I used 3" jablite between the joists and sheeted the ceiling using the same materials. It now requires very litle heat to keep the workshop toasty warm, and Ifind my East facing (uninsulated) roller shutter doors pick up enough heat to keep the workshop fairly dry. WD40 will help to remove the rust, but also washes off the oil film which prevents it. When I went back to the workshop after my enforced holiday (2 months) there was little rust anywhere, but I do oil all the surfaces and wipe them down, and then cover the machines with a variety of old duvet covers! With your place being free standing you could put insulation on the outside, but this would entail a more durable finish sheet to cover the laths. What about a tubular heater to prevent condensation, 200 watt should suffice once the building is insulated and draughtproofed. does your up and over door have the draught strips on it? inside on the upper half and outside on the lower half to fill the gap betwixt door and frame? I have seen thin foam draughtproofing strips fitted to these to seal them. This is always a problem, and you have to ventilate as well, although trickle ventilation is sufficient. Parrafin and gas heaters release water into the atmosphere unless some form of heat exchanger is used. Warm air is the way to go, although my place is not sealed to the outside as there are gaps around the tops of the roller shutterswhich I class as "ventilation" In the meantime coat everything with light oil, and give it a wipe when you want to use it! If the walls are not cavity walls using internal insulation and a dpm is almost essential! if you look at my workshop refurb video you will see what I did in the slideshow of pics (shameless plug)
Hope you get some ideas from this rambling diatribe!
Phil, My week this week.
Thanks, Phil. Good to have you back in the workshop!
Lots of helpful hints here. I noticed your wood stove in the corner in your latest video. looked very inviting. This morning, even my hardy youngest son was finding the workshop a bit too cold!
I would love to do a thorough job of insulating what is really a garage, but space is limited and internal insulation would reduce that space further. I will do whatever I can, within reason, to improved the insulation, reduce humidity, and add some heating but it may not go as far as yours!
Sealing of the door is on the agenda. I already replaced the lower rotten frame with concrete. I will look into the draughtproofing. Like your workshop I would have to go a long way run the risk of not having enough ventilation!
Yes, I will look up your workshop refurb video. This seems to be the link for part 1: ruclips.net/video/j6-ErhZiYDw/видео.htmlsi=Hvhf3sWqKUcgz335 in case anyone else is interested.
Best product I've found to prevent corrosion, after many years using comercial, cosmoline, ACF50 mould and tool protector and home made melted candles mixed with engine or chainsaw bar oil, is Wire rope and chain spray lubricant, its tenacious stuff and will collect dust if not covered with rags or sheet.
Used to use wd40 as temporary measure on my SB heavy 10 but during humid weather you would see rust developing within 24 hours. All these old machine tools need preserving, and sometimes the filthy plastered in dirt ,oil and old grease ones are in superb condition underneath the muck, sort self preservation like oil leaks on old cars .
Sounds like you have much experience. Wire rope and chain spray lub sounds quite heavy. Thanks for the suggestions! I agree with your point about oil and dirt encrusted machinery!
Hi! I have a set up similar to yours, small garage with big shutter. I was gifted by a friend of mine of one spray can of ACF-50, that stuff is great to prevent rust. It is slightly sticky and stays on the machines way longer than wd40. I truly recommend it
ACF is good. As is Boe-Shield. Boe -Shield is better for tools as it doesn’t leave a residue. Both are expensive though
Thanks for the advice re the difference between the two products. Will bear that in mind for my measuring equipment etc.
Thanks. Yes, I have already ordered a can of ACF-50.
😄 Happy new year both of you! Cheers from Italy!
Just a thought for you. Is it worth chucking an old quilt or something over the larger mass items too?
I need to do this on my 3/4 size steam tractor this time of year.
I have the same issue in my shop in the south east US, I'd be interested in what you think in a month or so if you see any benefits. Thanks for sharing
The response to this video has been more than I expected. Several have asked for follow up so that is what I plan to do.
Boeshield T-9 is the answer for surface rust prevention.
Thanks for your suggestion.
Im also in the uk and have found that wd40 doesn't really cut it the best thing I ever did was swop from water based cutting oil to oil based cutting fluid
Yep, the water soluble stuff has tons of downsides. The thick dark heavy stuff is the ticket. Not great with flood or mist coolant systems though obvs. 😉
Yes, I have been using my cutting oil neat but it has attacked the paint on my lathe (not good quality which I applied myself). Perhaps I need to try something else!
Morning, rust us a constant issue for me too. I run two dehumidifiers which remove gallons of water. I have thought about low power heating on the castings but have not come up with a good solution. WD 40 is good but doesn't seem to stay around, i have seen some other applications that leave a residue but that is also a trade off. Keeping the castings warm somehow must be the best way but how?
Good video
For me the challenge with trying to heat each item is that I have several machines. Also, the small items need protection.
I use Supertrol. It’s a little messy but if you’re not using the machines for a while it stops corrosion dead.
It sounds like Supertrol is something to use for when there is going to be significant downtime - another one to add to the list. Thanks!
Hi, thats a nice size milling machine what model spec is it.?
It's an Adcock & Shipley No1AG (1963) ISO40 taper spindle speeds 50 - 2,500rpm with pulleys and gears. Table 26in x 7in. Long trav 10in x transverse trav 6in x vertical 10in.
Another vote for Duck Oil here! Dehumidifier helps but won’t deal with the swings we’ve had in Scotland this year from below freezing to 11 Deg C in a night.. nightmare!
Thank you! Duck oil is now on my list too. Yes, I can see that a dehumidifier in such cold conditions will not be much use.
Oooh - I feel bad for you. Fundamentally it’s as you say - the problem is ideally solved by insulation and moisture barriers. That addition was the best thing I ever did to my shop and since then no rust. Not easy or cheap to do, alas. Living where I do I have to have heat in the shop and so that, insulation and moisture barrier really takes care of it.
When I didn’t have that, I WD-40’d everything, but also covered the machines in old oily cotton sheets when not being used. That really helped. Must be fabric - not plastic. Has to breathe.
Thanks for your comments. I realise that insulation of the door is just the first area to tackle. Will see how the rest of the winter goes! Thanks for the tip re breathable covers.
@@Workshopfriend something I just remembered - I have heard of people doing this and then also having a very small heat source - like a light bulb - 40 watts or so - under the sheet with the machine, which helps keep moisture off. That makes sense but of course I'd want to consider the fire hazard aspect very carefully. Top job on your insulation on the garage door. My up and over doors have insulation as part of the whole deal. Best of luck.
Get some Aero 360 condensation collectors installed. I use 4 in my garage and I'm surprised at how much water they take out of the air.
Thanks for your suggestions. Do you think they can really collect enough water and be economical to use? We use a dehumidifier in the house and it collects alarming quantities of water. I will certainly need to reduce drafts if I am to use one.
Almost any source of heat however small will probably help. A luxury option might be to divert a central heating pipe if your garage is attached to the house. Failing that perhaps an old fashioned paraffin heater. Plasterers used to use a single light bulb in a room to protect against frost but this was probably before the LED was invented.
If all else fails I'm a great believer in cleaning everything with an oily rag.
An extension of the central heating to the workshop would indeed be a luxury option! I hope that better insulation will make heating more worthwhile. Thanks!
My shop's much the same. Some days, I can go out there to find standing water on everything, like someone had sprayed the whole place down with the garden hose! Being a smithy, I'm not too worried about my tools rusting, but I do have some "nice" stuff that I'd rather prefer stay "nice".
One thing I've always been told is that WD40 is "hydrophilic" and isn't a good protection for bare steel surfaces. I use Boeing T-Shield as a result. WD can get you by in a pinch, but I wouldn't recommend it when there are much better products on the market. That WD will only add to the problem, imo, as it attracts moisture and gums up when the solvents in it evaporate.
Thanks for your comment. Yes, that is one of the big take aways for me - to use a .ore suitable rust prevention product. I will probably try out 2 or 3 for comparison.
1. Walls and ceiling insulation
2. Dehumidifier
3. Electric or diesel heater
That should help 🙂
Thanks, Lukas! I can see that this is going to be more involved than I first realised. I have a small gas heater but didn't use it much due to it adding to the humidity level/requiring plenty of ventilation. I assumed the diesel heater would require the same.
@@Workshopfriend Screwfix sell a thermostatic ceramic electric heater designed to heat a double garage sized space. Left on the lowest setting I'm hoping it will reduce stuff in my garage cooling down too much.
Condensation is complicated and each situation can be different. The root cause is cold steel and humid air. This can happen quickly under some conditions and one may not see the actual event with the water beads on the equipment. You can dry or heat the air or heat the steel or apply a wax especially table saw wax but many contain silicone and rarely result in wood taking stain and finish unevenly. Oils dont work very well as oil floats on water and the water will get under the oil. A thick coating of heavy oil can work sometimes but I heat the steel with heating pads or silicon rubber heating strips or pads, or magnetic block heaters but they produce too much heat. sometimes covered with reflectex or foam insulation sheets cut to size over the heaters. During extra cold weather the steel cools , then as the air warms the steel remains cold and condenses water. The steel can become completely wet for a few hours or a day or two. On my table saw i place a 40 watt plant heating pad with 2 inch foam then plywood during the winter. Each piece of equipment gets a heater of one type or another. Home store dehumidifiers are really terrible , you can tell because they remove so little water, they mostly heat the air and waste electricity. Commercial ones are good but they cost $1000. If your shop gets cold a cheap dehu will freeze up. Home ones are useless and a waste of money. Heating the air or the steel is the best. Throwing reflectex sheets over the equipment and some heat 100 watts more or less will help greatly if the shop has no heat.
Thanks for your insight into domestic Vs industrial dehumidifiers and cold air. Yes, I agree that the specific conditions affect condensation and that you can see it happening before your eyes!
I bought a decent dehumidifier and use ACF-50 as WD40 is mainly solvent. No more rust!
Oh forgot to mention, also fitted a sealed doubled glazed window and insulated roller shutter doors.
Another ACF-50 recommendation. This has come up a lot.
Oh yes, no one answer to this problem!
Use AC90 from Toolstation very good for rust protection
The super fine rust is basically the same a firearm bluing once it is removed. Once everything developes that "patina" it will actually help keep itself from rusting in a more detrimental manner.
An added bonus, the microscopic pits left after the rust is removed, trap and retain oil. Aiding in future preservation and lubricity of moving parts.
Thanks for your comments. So far, I believe you are the only contributor to see a positive side to this problem. I will consider the pros too!
I have fought that for years, WD40 and motor oil will mix with water and rust.
It looks like you have a brick shop which makes it even harder to keep dry.
I have found that keeping the air above ambient temp is the number one factor.
Keep good circulation for tooling, closed cupboards will rust stuff very very quickly!
Good heave machine or hydraulic oil and lots of inspection/attention is the order of the day and DON’T heat the shop rapidly!
ESP not with propane as water is one of the combustion products!
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I have propane for small jobs and a small heater. It is tempting to use it when it is very cold - but I rarely have for the reason you mentioned. Yes, I agree that keeping the temp above ambient is important.
A dehumidifier would be a big help. I have 2 in my shop that stay on 24/7. Also there are way better products out there to use to prevent rust than WD40. Not sure if you can get them in the UK. There is SP350 made by CRC and Boeshield T-9 developed by Boeing.
Thanks for your comments! Yes both SP350 and Boeshield T-9 are available. I have made quite a long list of products from the helpful input in this thread and will select 2 or 3 products to try out. Yes, a dehumidifier would be helpful especially one that has a reliable humidistat which can work over a wide temperature range so that it runs only when required.
@@Workshopfriend I have mine set at 60%.
I feel your pain I live on the west coast ( Ayrshire )
Iv got similar problems and it can really get you down.
Fully insulating the garage and running heating would solve this problem completely.
( Yes I know this isn’t atall realistic )
Iv found covering the machines with a blanket makes a big difference, I run electric dehumidifier s but these don’t work in cold conditions as obviously the cold air doesn’t carry much moisture.
I think you’re door would do much better with some 2” king span on it , your walls would need preferably 3x2” stud frames built and 2” king span+ plaster board and the ceiling the same only with thicker insulation. I accept the cost of this may be prohibitive and the loss of space too.
Heating really isn’t out of reach now in the form of those little Chinese “night heaters” like lorry’s have had for years these are cheap fairly efficient and most importantly as there’s an external exhaust they don’t produce any moisture in use.
Calor super ser heaters and the like do more harm than good as the moisture from combustion is the room and to be avoided.
There’s a lot of u tubers running these heaters on black oil / diesel mix further reducing costs
Hope something there helps someone and obviously oil everything !
Dehumidifier = awesome but only in warm air
I think the west is more prone to this problem! Fulltime heating is not realistic....I now wish I had added better insulation to the door but I didn't want to increase the thickness too much. Might add another layer of what I have already used.
I will attack the cold spots one by one hoping to avoid the full works. It is probably less cold where I live.
Your suggestion of the night heater is intriguing. Have looked up online but I couldn't see an external chimney. Will look into that more. Thanks for all your helpful comments!
First step is to insulate the shed, next get air circulation. I've had luck with a whirly bird on the roof.
Next, Lanolin spray. Best rust protection I've used. You can wipe it down in summer / spring once the weather warms up. I've tried WD40, LPS2, LPS3, plain old way oil rubbed on everything. Lanolin does dry to form a tacky / sticky film, chips will stick to it but it's better than dealing with rust.
Insulation, seems to be one of the key solutions, so will work on improving that.
I have never used lanolin and didn't realise until just now that it comes from sheep and or other wool bearing animals. I assume that it has to be cleaned off the lathe ways before use.
Anyway, thanks for your advice!
@Workshopfriend I don't use it on lathe ways, just the not sliding parts. Ways are given a coating of way oil once a week and I have a bellows style cover on them. I haven't had to spray lanolin in a while though since I installed the whirly bird for air circulation. Try LPS2, it's a bit dearer than wd40 but you can probably use it on slideways as is since it's a lubricant as well
@Workshopfriend and yes we have plenty of sheep down here, lanolin is cheap
Clive consider using Inox rather than WD40. Inox does not dry like WD40 which is silicone based and dries out. My workshop in Brisbane Australia is insulated and we have had three weeks of rain coupled with 35degree days and 80% humidity. I checked my Colchester last week and no rust on the machine and topped up the ways and other parts with inox
Thanks, Steve. Another useful product recommendation for me to look out for. It seems that the dreaded condensation problem can strike at any time!
Heart breaking isn't it. Insulation, Duck oil and a dehumidifier 24/7 seems to be working well in my small workshop. Make sure the dehumidifier has an external drain on it though as a good one will pull an alarming amount of water in 24 hrs
It is interesting how varied the responses are with some advocating for dehumidifiers and others not. I suppose each has to find what works in his/her own context. One thing is for sure I will be looking for a better rust inhibitor as you suggested.
Wipe every thing with a oily rag ie paraffin prevents flash rust and does not harm paint work
I have plenty of oily rags lying around - mostly soaking up oil from a leak on the mill!
I use 151 super grease on my bare metal surfaces. (Concrete garage)
It’s an aerosol grease which stays on the surfaces unlike WD40 which I feel evaporates.
Three suggestions. First - buy a small space heater that can heat your shop up. The warmer the air, the more humidity it can absorb. Second - Buy a room dehumidifier and plumb the outlet to outside the shop (likely under the garage door). This removes the humidity in the air. Third - Stop using WD40 as your rust preventative for long term. Use a specific rust prevention spray such as Boeshield T-9 spray or similar. WD40 is great for short term rust prevention but is too thin to form a long-term rust prevention barrier. If push comes to shove, a wipe down with a rag soaked in light machine oil will do a very good job.
Thanks for your helpful suggestions. Definitely I will be moving to something better that WD-40 and will be trying to keep the average temperature a little higher - perhaps even with an electric heater. I will also be looking for a dehumidifier.
The biggest difference I made to my workshop was when I fitted a new roof and used 30mm thick insulated steel cladding panels, that keeps warmth in my workshop a long time as I use a wood stove for heat in their. As far as protecting my machines I use clean engine oil on a rag as WD 40 does seem to dry up after a while, if I still get rusting I wipe the oil off and spray on ACF50, this lands on surfaces as a purple coloured mess but quickly turns into a thick liquid that can be spread with a rag, used in the aircraft industry inside air frames ACF 50 kills off rust and corrosion, you can buy it in spray form on eBay. My new roof made the biggest difference as it keeps the warmth in during winter and prevents the wokshop turning into an oven during a hot summer. One last thing, no matter how you try you will always have some moisture content in the air inside your workshop, what you need when excess damp strikes is to speed up it's exit by having some form of ventilation as once a sealed place gets damp it will stay damp for a long time, so don't go mad sealing everything up air flow wise.
I will keep it brief. Use oil not WD-40 and cover tools with an old sheet when not in use.
This sounds like good advice. Thanks!
also cover machines with old curtains or dust sheets help
That seems to be one of the big take aways.
Hi, It's not a definitive answer but I find WD40 not ideal as a protector. I trend to slather ISO30 oil over my machines and get little issue with rust. It would be good to get a warmer workshop in the winter so I will try a diesel heater that my friend raves about!
Hi, WD40 or similar is no good for coating surfaces. It evaporates over a short period of time. Either use an oily rag or aerosol spray AC (Action Can) has an excellent range. AC 90 or anti rust film for longer storage. Also run a dehumidifier
Easy fix that requires no heating, leave machines covered in wd40 every time you finish using the machines and theirs is the big one, all your machines when not in use with an old bed sheet, this will stop rust on all surfaces.
When you are in the workshop also run a 1.5 kw fan heater while you are in there, the fan heater pushes damp air over the element and burns off moisture. I also put 2inches of cellotex insulation on the back of the large garage doors, makes a huge difference differences to the temps and requires less energy to heat the workshop. I see you have put your own insulation up, it will make a huge difference
Thanks for your comments. To reduce the likelihood of corrosion I used to use engine oil on the lathe's bare metal surfaces and only in the last few years WD-40 thinking it would be more efficient. From all the comments here I now wonder! Anyhow, from now on I will be covering my machines and continuing to work on improving the insulation.
@ the wd-40 turns white when it gets moisture in it. When this happens simply wipe off and re-apply.
Try a thicker oil than WD40. Something that clings. I use cheap engine oil.
Install a dehumidifier.
Install some kind of heating with a thermostat to come on during the worst cold spells. I have just such an oil filled radiator in my porch to keep my plants above 4 degrees Centigrade. But be careful: 1kw of energy for an average of half a day for three months of the year could cost you £400 or more in a year. Keep it to a minimum.
Put covers on your machines. I use fire blankets because I weld in the same area and I find them quite effective but I have no experience of alternatives.
Of the above, the two that are most attractive on cost vs. performance grounds are a better rust inhibitor and thick covers.
Good luck with it and please do give us an update.
Thanks, Mike for the feedback. Yes, it seems that WD-40 is going to be replaced with something more appropriate and I could see the heating bill getting out of control if I were to go down that route!
I think some kind of covering for the larger items would be a good approach. As you say it has to be based on sound economics. I will give an update. Still plenty of cooler weather on its ways to put things to the test.
I avoid at all costs using WD40 . I made this mistake years ago, and it enhanced the rust problems. I now use heavier oils or grease.
i have two oil cans handy, and most things get coated with motor oil.
If you can't control the climate in the shop,. spray surfaces with Boeshield T-9
Thanks! Yes, I now have this in my list of products to try out.
I must fix that hole in the roof
A message from North Yorkshire.
WD40 is OK for cleaning but it is essentially a water displacement agent. It has very little oil in it. It is also prone to reabsorption of water after it dries. If you take wd40 anywhere near an aircraft workshop you'll be marched off.
Do not use it a a rust inhibitor, ever. It will all just get worse. Use some gun oil spray or 3 in 1 maintenance oil.
After cleaning cast iron beds I use boiled linseed oil which leaves a coating on. I think my vices are also coated in boild linseed oil. This was my grandads method and we used to live right near the sea in North Yorkshire Occasionally re apply.
The best thing you can do to cut down on condensation is ventilation. Is your roof well vented. Mostly I just use 3 in 1 in the maintenance can.
Duck oil leaves a waxy film and protects well
Tried to purchase it at my local DIY store - but wasn't available. Will look around for it. Thanks!
I am lucky no rust, But if i open the garage door on a damp winters day rust on the cast iron!!! 🇬🇧.
Hmmmm..... My tiny workshop is in my 18' x 6' 6" garage. No insulation on any walls, no ceiling just open to the rafters and roof felt/tiles. No rust.
Freezing cold, but no rust on my lathes or mill or saws. Where is all that damp air coming from in your case to condense on your machines?
Good point. I think part of the problem is the neighbour's soil level which has bridged the dpc on one side. This will be a summer job - I will have to find a way to either lower the level or install a vertical dpc. Also, I doubt the floor!
Sadly, WD-40 will not help very much. Something waxy is needed. Fluid Film works well for me. Some people like LPS3 but I don't like how it smells.
Thanks! I have added Fluid Film to my list!
yeah same problem here. these are the things i have found over the years: 1) ventalation is your ENEMY. block up all vents, holes,, gaps around doors, anwhere air can get in from outside. you want NO airflow, becasue warm damp air moving about will just give it more opertunity to dump more wet on the machines. 2) WD40 everything liberaly after every use. i have never found anything that works better, even grease doesn't seem to be as effective. it's a shame they don't make a slightly thicker formulation. 3) pay attension to the wood you have in the shop as well as if you have damp it will start to go mouldy and some of those fungi can attack metal as well. MDF and manufactured woods can be bad for this, as can pine. inspect everything wooden you have in there, shelves, cupboards, boxes etc and paint them with oil based paint or varnish if they are showing any signs of mould. tropical hardwoods stand up best to damp. 4) if there are any cracks or spesific areas on the walls where damp is getting in a good quick fix is to paint over them on the inside with that gorilla liquid rubber stuff.
While I think I need to keep a small amount of ventilation, I tend to agree with you that the degree of ventilation I had was excessive and caused the machinery to cool too quickly and warmer humid air to breeze through afterwards. I have started to address that issue. It is interesting that you rate WD-40 highly while others on this thread don't. Interesting!
You are right about the manmade wood products. For the first time I noticed some slight mould on one item! That is something to avoid in future.
@@Workshopfriend Yeah and if that mould touches something ferrous you get a nasty deep fractal rust pattern etched into it as the fungal hyphae spread out across it. There may be better things than wd40, I just haven’t found them in the UK. I tried that automotive spray wax oil that was supposed to have rust inhibitors, it did nothing apart form make everything sticky. various spray on greases that really don’t help very much against rust but leave everything a slimy swarf magnet. WD40 is easy to apply, easy to remove when you need to use the thing. Only downside of it is its not so good long term and it makes the shop smell of kerosene. Probably the ideal ventilation solution is something you can open and close so in the summer when condensation isn’t an issue you can open it up more.
WD 40 in my experience may clean of rust but if sprayed on and left does not prevent rusting and may even promote it.
Try ACF50
Added to my list of products to try out. Thanks!
It’s a real nuisance. Personally I mix up diesel & oil in a sprayer & drench everything in sight. It’s messy I know but rather that than rust!
WD 40 has kerosene in it,and therfore it evaporates leaving virtually on oil film. Maybe try using LPS 2 or Kroil penetrant.
BALLISTOL UNIVERSALÖL Rust Problem solved. Is also edible.. so good for your skin.
I don't believe WD40 will work as the condensation will wash it off. I have clear coated (painted) surfaces that are not machined surfaces such as the outside of the lathe chuck. I also 3D printed various covers. I covered it in a video on my channel.
It’s not the coldness. It’s better to be in a cold environment but with ventilation. Rather than in a warm space with no ventilation.