War on the Sea - U.S. Campaign - 12 - Submarine Offensive Action
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Let's play the newly released War on the Sea, a WW2 naval combat strategy game. This latest release from Killerfish unleashes the Pacific theater of operations, with carrier battles and surface action, including all that on a campaign fight for Guadalcanal.
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Command ships, submarines and aircraft in the South Pacific during WWII.
1942: The world is at war
The Japanese Empire expands throughout the Pacific where Allied forces attempt to halt its spread. A desperate struggle for control of the Solomon Islands is now underway.
How will you protect your transports as they deliver troops and supplies in the South Pacific? Will you deploy precious aircraft carriers to provide air cover? Do you screen the area with submarines? Or attempt to lure the enemy navy into a decisive surface engagement?
Major Features:
Real time naval combat
Theatrical external-view game play
Play as Allied Forces or Imperial Japan
Over 50 classes of playable ships
Dynamic campaign
Tactical control of aircraft (not a flight simulator)
Fight fires, counter flood compartments and repair ships
Sink ships using realistic buoyancy physics
Historical missions based on actual naval engagements
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Tortuga's Discord ► / discord
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I agree with your statements about the comments. It seems to be a common theme amongst all War on the Sea videos. People do not understand that there are game mechanics at work that prevent a lot of things that theoretically would work in real life or were employed. This game is not a 1-1 simulation of the Guadalcanal Campaign.
It's still just a wargame, not a simulation.
My guess is that DD was able to make a beeline directly for you because you forgot to hit silent running. They could hear you reloading your rear tubes on their passive sonar. They broke off when they lost you because you finished reloading and weren't making noise anymore.
That's a great guess, mike. Good call, I'll have to remember that next time.
Nope,they always go to the area where the torpedo's where fired from , just like you do when you get fired on from subs. The trick is to get out of the area before there sonar picks you up.
Those ( youtubers) who think go real slow ( less noise) get sunk, those who go fast are far enough and don't get caught ( of course depends on distance you shot from,silent running,layers,depth,turn 90 degrees etc.)
It's a very reasonable speculation; I considered same. But I think I tend toward Medikto's take. Their last known datum is the point of torpedo release, so the DD heads straight there and starts an expanding search. Yeah, Tortuga didn't run silent, but was going very slow and was below the strong layer. I don't *think* the DD actually had contact on him. (disclaimer: my own speculation & opinion, not factual knowledge)
Lt.Cmdr Adrian Dunois, USS Enterprise (CV-6)
Leroy and I are still in the hospital, doing our best to recover. We were lucky, It could’ve gone a lot worse. We could have starved, we could have been shot, we could have been tortured to death, or even accidentally killed by our own planes, but by some miracle we’re alive. I’ve got some stitches over the more nasty cuts, and bandages wrapped over my torso, with Leroy in a similar state. While waiting for the docs to clear us to fly, I’ve written a letter back home. I don’t know when it’ll get there, but it was refreshing to do so nonetheless.
Hornet showed up. USS Hornet, CV-8. With the arrival of TF24, the pressure on TF6 eases up some, and the tide of war seems to be turning in our favor. Seeing Hornet depart port and a flight of B-17 bombers taking off was definitely a sight to see, and can spell nothing but trouble for the Japanese forces in the area.
We’ve been released from the hospital, but have been forced to go through a brief “re-qualification training” before we’re officially cleared for duty. They've set a mock-up deck on a runway by chalking off an 800ft by 100ft section of the runway, erecting arrestor wires, and are having us land there. It’s crude, but we don’t exactly have any spare carriers.
Notes: I know it moves rather fast, much faster than it ever could in real life, but the game has an interesting relationship with the concept of time, so we are forced to adjust accordingly.
Comments: Good to see the Hornet coming in to play. Hopefully TF24 can relieve the pressure on TF6, which is running dangerously low on aircraft. Despite Enterprises losses, you seem to be making good use of her remaining resources.
The destroyers of TF5 appear to be Porter class destroyers, despite one of them being named Farragut. (no Porter ever carried this name to my knowledge) Due to the strange naming of the so-called Farragut" you often misidentify them when looking for their AA capabilities, ASW Capabilities, speed, and radar range.
It’s kind of a shame that you can’t make use of Escort carriers or Saratoga, as both were present at this time in the campaign. The escort carriers mainly functioned as aircraft ferries in this campaign, but Saratoga was actually the largest carrier of WWII by length and the largest by displacement to do anything, as Shinano was really just a poorly designed, oversized, underpowered aircraft ferry with poor performance that was sunk days into her builder’s trials.
Rambling aside,
Fair winds and following seas
If horizontal bombing was this accurate - the B-17 would have been a key weapon against surface ships.
Yeah, at Midway a flight of B-17's attacked a Japanese carrier. The birds got clean away, but no damage done to the enemy either, other than having to change their underwear from all the near misses.
You and wolfpack are single handedly making me want to make the expensive decision to purchase a gaming pc , keep it up boys!
steamDeck!
Absolutely do it!!! I have a gaming laptop and there is nothing better than sitting on my sofa kicking back with some War on the sea on my comfortable sofa while the wife watches her crap on the tele 🤣
'Not a whole lot happened' - built an aircraft carrier group, and sank two heavy cruisers and two destroyers! An action packed video :-)
It went by so fast
I recommend to make a battle group with battle ship
I hope to, although they are pretty darn expensive.
CVs made BBs obsolete, what's the point?
@@henrikknudsen8125 the Japanese still have there battle ships
@@henrikknudsen8125
Unless I am missing something, in the game fleet carriers only have 36 planes (12 fighters/dive bombers/torpedo bombers each) and you lose quite a few every attack. My Shokaku has a total of 5 strike A/C left after 4 or 5 attacks.
Now, BBs might not have much more staying power either due to limited ammo (haven't used a BB yet), but another difficulty with CVs (in the game) is that you can't really launch a coordinated strike. You launch your dive-bombers and then either send them in alone or wait half an hour or so to launch your torpedo-bombers, then another half hour to launch your fighters (well, you probably better start with the Zeros, since they have the longest range and can loiter the longest).
Now, this might be realistic as it _did_ take quite some time to set-up a full, coordinated strike, but it still irks me, given loading/unloading ships is instantaneous.
Sending in one wave alone also has the problem of there being a 1 hour cooldown after a battle before you can attack the same target again (which is grade-A stupid, if you ask me - I deliberately keep a scout plane around so I can keep the target spotted but nooooo), so your 2nd wave might show up half an hour later but the enemy will simply not being shown.
@@EllenbergW Well BBs are in the thick of the action and their staying power depends on RNG with what get's destroyed or not. CVs don't take battle damage quite as often as BBs, which is another blow to the usefulness of BBs.
The boys and I were up all night swapping out those guns. Did ya think the swapped themselves, by magic?
You mean it isn't gun swapping fairies!?
I'm happy to hear you're not planning to continue the super cheesy dive bomber level bombing. While it's certainly effective it's just not very enjoyable to watch when you know you're not really risking anything.
Although much to my surprise, we still lost one!
@@TortugaPower If I saw it correctly, those bombers at least in part were at around 5k feet instead of your previous 8k because when you manually took over control you stopped them from climbing and they remained at the altitude they were when that happened.
I know a cheese trick. When a Plane spots an sub send about 3 Avengers with Rockets to intercept. The AI only dives after the Attack and 3 to 5 Rockets always hit. Sinking it nearly instantly. It's a no Skill trick but i tested it in my current Game. I sank 12 subs successfully.
PS: Love your Vids keep em going
Interesting cheesy tactic. I'm happy to give it a shot!
Hello Tortuga, you forgot to actually summarize the US ships lost vs. IJN ships lost. I am curious how many cruisers the IJN has of each class and how many you have sunk. I wouldn't be surprised if you have sunk most of their heavy cruisers.
Hi Jim, that's my mistakes. I intended to and got distracted. I'm going to prioritize this for Ep 13, but if for some reason I neglect it again, please keep harassing me =)
I just hang out for this series and update each day!
I’m 10 or so days in my campaign and I have sank 9 Japanese heavy cruisers. Adding the loss of Mikuma at Midway makes 10 Japanese heavy cruisers on the bottom. For reference the Japanese only had 18 heavy cruisers during the entire war. I have sunk 4 by submarines for loss of three submarines, and the other 6 in surface fights where collectively I lost 1 heavy and 1 light cruisers. I have never used attack planes at all. I think I am going to sink all Japanese heavy cruisers before the end of the war.
How?
Yep. A nice game visually, but the AI needs a LOT of work.
@@snigie1 I used submarines and fire spread of 6 with 1 degree spread. Whenever I am in a surface fight, I assign all my heavy cruisers to fight their most capable heavy cruiser (ie mogami, tone, takao, or myoko). After that guy sinks I switch their fire to less capable heavy cruisers (ie furutaka or aoba). I USE THIS FOR ALL SHIP CLASSES.
It won't matter. Forum suggests the AI has the equivalent of a Knights of the Old Republic "Star Forge" that simply churns them out non-stop. Expect to see ships you've already sunk return to the fight, LOL.
Hey man, try silent running on your sub when evading.
Yes, that was a mistake on my part. Will correct in future (...hopefully)
In the South Pacific, and during a lot of actions in the Pacific, Japanese merchant ships were woefully under-armed, or just plainly unarmed. In some cases, ships with self defense weapons couldn't even elevate to hit attacking aircraft. There is also the issue of the crews of these merchant weapons being almost useless at hitting attacking aircraft.
Get out of here with your fancy history!
Couple of comments on ASW etc in general.
When you select a target, the range to that target is the last number on the right on the top row of data presented about the target (the stuff in red).
When the initial screen comes up for the battle, pause and look for the following:
Sea State, whether there's a layer and if there is, its depth, strength AND the duct strength.
Those are ABSOLUTELY VITAL for submarine combat regardless of whether you're the sub or the targets.
(ok, you got around to checking that at ~5:30 into things)
Here's a quote from the devs on the Steam forum:
Sea State is a massive factor, states 0-8 listed below:
"seaStateSonarModifier":[1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,0.8,0.6,0.4,0.2,0.0]
Hunting subs in sea state 4+ is pretty tough.
So the effectiveness of both passive and active sonars drops 20% for each level above 4. Your first encounter is Sea State 5, so ALL passive and active sonar ranges are reduced by 20% regardless of any other consideration. I've mentioned it in EVERY comment I've made, LOL, but it's why I use the "Weather Overlay" all the time. I want some idea of whether my ships, planes and boats will be blind and/or well concealed, for obvious reasons.
As for layers and ducts, they similarly affect the detection ranges of sonar. You take the base detection range from the sensors panel and multiply it by the relevant factor.
Layers reduce sonar range, so they're numbers less than zero. Layer strength of 0.75, for example, means a ship's sonar values are effectively cut to 75%.
Ducts INCREASE range, so they're numbers greater than zero. Duct strength of 2.0, for example, means a ship's sonar values are effectively increased to 200% (double) normal. The greatest Duct strength I've seen is 4.5. I imagine YOU know this stuff, thought I'd put it here on the off chance others may read it.
Obviously you need to be below the listed Layer Depth to gain from it. If I want to cover some distance and there's a layer, I'll drop below it before speeding up.
Given you've identified the DD in the first instance, pause and look at its sensor values. As far as I've seen, Active is ALWAYS 1.0nm while the passive values can vary quite a bit.
If you put all those together you can have SOME idea of the sorts of detection ranges you and they may experience. There's still quite a bit of unknown detail as it's NOT specific about how the various decibel values of ships translate to Passive Sonar detection. Subs seem to be about the quietest at 135, and an increase of 10 decibels is in fact an increase of intensity (a measure of energy per cubic area from memory) of 10 TIMES. Something 20 decibels louder is NOT 20% louder than 100 decibels, it's MUCH more than that.
After that, your sound is obviously increased by your engine power, so silent at 1 knot is going to be considerably less noisy than not using silent and doing 9 knots.
Well, there are some thoughts. You might like to explain to others how the sensors work and where to look at them on the ships, which is one of the main reasons for identifying them.
Hope this was of some use,
Cheers
p.s. I forgot to mention, the Devs stated submarine dive time is fixed at 80 seconds. It's an utterly BS number v true performance, but that's what it is.
I am a retired US Navy Surface Warfare/ Intelligence officer. My comments refer to real life naval warfare. Apply game mechanics as appropriate.
1) To know if aircraft/ bombs/ ships/ torpedoes are on a collision course you need to remember CBDR (constant bearing, decreasing range) if you see left or right bearing drift you can increase or decrease it by changing own course and/or speed.
2) An argument for sinking transports, other than the obvious, is that it will force the Japanese to use destroyers and/or cruisers as transports decreasing their effectiveness in their intended roles.
3) Sinking destroyers will have the long term benefit of reducing the number of convoy escorts making merchants more vulnerable to submarine attack. See the story of the USS Harder (SS-257).
4) Sinking cruisers is advised if you intend to bring your own cruisers into a surface engagement.
This ties neatly in with my strategy starting to unfold better in Ep. 13 (especially #4).
Great to have such a knowledgeable veteran along for the series. Cheers!
Another good video. It was nice to see a submarine action to open up and close out the video. I was wondering how they played out in game.
Also good to see a second carrier fleet set up.
Today's characters:
Furutaka (古鷹)
Furu(i) (古い) - Old
Taka (鷹) - Hawk
Literally an Old Hawk
Yeah, your points about airstrikes being too effective in the game are quite spot on.
Anyway, nice catches today, especially that Akizuki, those were very good ships.
Maybe send the Enterprise Group back once the Hornet arrives and reload so that you would have even more planes to call upon since you have lost so many through attrition ... then have full decks (minus whatever you lose while the Enterprise is away) for max kills???
And I am NOT a good strategist/tactician when it comes to these things so take the advice as you please
I think this is good advice, and what I plan to do. Enterprise can retire once Hornet covers.
@@TortugaPower Thanks
@@TortugaPower Good plan, but having both carriers operate together will really strengthen your position. Not saying that one carrier can't cover for another withdrawing, it's just tempting.
Luv watching you play! It's great to c the places that my GPa went to when he rested and to fight during the Pacific Campaign.
10th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division of the II Marine Expeditionary Force. Never talked about the War, died when I was 7 but found his Trench Art & service Info.
Ok - I gave up and bought it today, I am pretty crap at it but having a lot of fun
I wish you good luck!
Been thinking of doing the same!
@@TortugaPower I decided to try the Japanese, so started with Guadalcanal, I had reinforced it with troops, oil and supplies and had it well screened, at the point that I quit to watch your clip, the Americans had slipped through the screen with about 5 transports, 3 destroyers and a couple of CV's - the battle on the island doesnt look to be going well, the bar is almost completely blue :) - we live and learn
@@snigie1 Its pretty heavy going at first
I saw some people on the forums reporting that the latest patch broke their save game and they had to start over. Just want to prepare you that might be a possibility in the near future. Lots of changes to the game, and surprisingly UI changes are already coming through. Sure wasn't expecting that so soon. There's a roadmap on the forum that hasn't been pinned yet, though it's there if you go to Steam - War at Sea - Community - Road Map (two words). Roadmap search doesn't work for some reason, even though the thread is titled "Roadmap" as one word.
Thanks Macker, I want to check that out (hopefully I don't forget)
@@TortugaPower Good luck. Hope it doesn't happen to you!
"Hornet" was sunk at Santa Cruz so you were correct.
I’ve been on the hornet. She’s docked in alameda.
@@ryanhurley14 your talking about the essex class Hornet. The hornet sunk at santa cruz was the Yorktown class Hornet. The essex class Hornet was named in honor of the sunken yorktown class Hornet.
This series has me going back through my grandfather's journals, he was a torpedo bomber pilot in WW2. He actually received the Navy Cross for a glide bombing run in the attack on Kure in July 1945 28:40
That's some impressive family history.
I just learned about this game a week ago and have been watching these videos at night when I'm chilling. I absolutely love the gameplay from you man. Have a nice day/night when and if you see this Comment man!
Oh, and I think Santa Cruz, yes. Where the Hornet was lost. It was a blow to moral twice over since the Doolittle Raid had been launched from her months earlier. If I recall, she took multiple bomb and torpedo hits, the Enterprise was spared at first because she was in a rain squall. After the battle, Hornet was listing but still afloat, and a cruiser wrapped a cable around its rear turret and actually started towing Hornet at something like 3 knots. In the end, sadly, another flight of Japanese planes were detected, so Halsey ordered her sunk. Incredibly, despite pounding her with guns and Mk 14 torpedoes, some that surprisingly actually exploded, she still didn’t sink. The fleet was forced to retreat, and it took another 6 Japanese torpedoes to finally make her turn turtle and sink. Her fate was sad, but she took possibly the greatest beating of any carrier in history. I’m glad to see you add her to a fleet, and am excitedly awaiting the day a battleship can be added! “Showboat” North Carolina, Washington, and South Dakota I think were the ones that sailed with Enterprise in 1942? And I know the loss of one cruiser in the Battle of Sabo Island is why the “Lone Survivor” rule was created, since all five Sullivan Brothers were onboard and killed. “Lone Survivor” means one brother serving is kept on non-hazard duty stateside (usually at a desk telling BeauOrd to stuff it about their “miracle of perfection the Mk 14”) to ensure at least one son in a family will survive.
Lol, “the graphics are really beautiful”
I love how he says it as a ship is burning and sinking
Makes me chuckle too.
I've been watching the victory at sea Pacific play through and now I keep forgetting which is what
The one with the bugs is... oh wait, that's both of them.
@@TortugaPower 😂😂
War on the sea is the one we still have hope for. Victory at sea is still a buggy mess after 2.5years after launch. I just today tried to play it again. Sound settings keep resetting constantly when going combatmap view, plane controls bug out constantly, crashed twice in an hour...
I discoverd this channel a few years ago during spring break, used to watch the cold water video's. Kinda forgot it existed after i was done with those, but recently you popped in my recommended feed again.
I'm not making the same mistake i made years ago ;)
Love the series so far and eagerly await more
I generally focus on more detailed games, but I have a soft spot for the kind of titles that Killerfish puts out (and the upcoming Task Force Admiral and Sea Power games).
Your my new favorite RUclipsr! Love this series!
🎉two uploads In one day, thank you Sah.
Another great installment. Got those destroyers. I was telling you to turn and shoot another one lol. I don’t usually talk to videos.
I'm very flighty when it comes to my submarines vs. DDs. The AI has been cruel to the ones in my private/personal campaign.
Oh man I love love love the music just steadily getting more intense as that destroyer was in hung closer and closer to you at the end. I’m laying down but if I was seated, I’d be at the edge of it. Hahaha
Love the series and you appear to be the best exponent of tactical play I have come across so far
I reckon it would be awesome if they elaborated on the casualties caused on the ships when they are hit, for example when a bomb hits the bridge and kills the captain and his command staff causing a lesser officer to take command and reducing the effectiveness of the ship as a whole
If you have a full surface battle, and you are sinking all of the enemy, then you should wait for all of your damage control to repair before ending world view
I agree; that's what I typically do.
of all of the videos i've seen by people you are only one that uses carriers. Good job brother
Nothing more American than using carriers! (Also they seem extremely powerful...)
Maybe later in the game, you'll be able to get the Essex class carriers, as well as the fast BB (New Jersey, Missouri, Wisconsin).
5:14 I read something on the Steam forums about enemy ships being able to detect radar, such as what is emitting from your stealthy sub, at a distance that was a multiple of your radar detection range and their radar capability. It made me think of sonar when I read it, and how a sub's ping can be detected much further than the range it provides info to the sub. I can't say I fully understood what I read enough to say for sure that the enemy DD could detect your radar at 5k yards, but I would sure think so. I guess we'll see what happens. :) Edit: you dove the boat and turned off radar at 3895 yards, and the DD's course had not changed, so clearly it did not detect your radar emissions. I was holding my breath, though. Haha! 23:09 You can see that you're not charged the points until you hit "Done" which makes it easy to plan a new naval group and see how many points you'll need, or make minute adjustments such as a better cruiser for the extra 2 points, etc. 35:54 Torpedoes seem to really struggle to hit anything closer than 500-600 yards. They run straight for about 400 yards or so from what I can tell, then they arm and the gyro kicks in. I've had luck on the US side shooting while pointing my sub's nose at the target or close to 25 degrees before perpendicular to my nose, and firing all four rear torpedo tubes (turn front tubes off), then I wait until they come streaming past my sub's nose (they make a huge U-turn), and I fire my front torps at a second target. If timed correctly, they all end up hitting targets ahead (forward) of my sub at about the same time. Hilarious when it works! Good luck! 37:24 A layer at .84 means the sound your sub generates and the returns from active sonar have a (normal chance of detection x .84) overall chance of being detected, while a duct of 2.7 means the sound and returns travel 2.7 times further or the value the ship gets is 2.7 x stronger than it would be if the ducts were 1.0. If a DD had a max sonar range of 10 miles, then that would be effectively extended to 27 miles max, not taking into account reductions from sea state, rain, etc. How the game actually seems to work is that the enemy DD's always find you initially, no matter what you do, and if you survive the first DC attack, and you scoot away at high speed, they have no clue where you went, despite the fact that they found you from much further away initially. Go figure. ;) Good luck!
the ai just cheats in ASW
i've done a torp run from 5 km range and dove down below the layer on silent running at 2kn while also dive bombing at the same time only to have the enemy destroyer break of and hover over my sub the entire time. i stayed in that battle for 2 minutes waiting for some merchants to sink and the destroyer didn't stray away from above my sub at all
he didn't even detect me either cause he wasn't dropping depth charges
@@pavivier like i said in other comment ,going slow and thus staying in area where torpedoes started is bad,going full speed away seems to be good( not just in this game , in other subsims too).
So yeah ,his comment that the dd always finds you once should be the dd never finds you if you get away from the launch zone in time, even my wolfpacks don't get detected at full speed.
Look at wolfpack345 videos , he goes full speed too.
Hey man, great video as usual! One comment I want to make regarding these videos is that I recommend you pay a bit more information to the dialog box or the unit selection panel - there's been many cases when a ship sinks and you miss it for a while, or a plane gets downed and you don't notice, although I understand that the UI for this game is unintuitive. That aside, these videos are really fun to watch and I really feel invested in this campaign!
EDIT: another thought that came up is that perhaps it would be prudent to station one or more submarines in the Slot to help sink the transports being shuttled to Guadalcanal. At this stage of the game it seems like you have difficulty projecting consistent air power over the southeastern end of the Slot due to lack of aircraft availability and excessive range from Rennell/New Hebrides, and keeping your carrier task forces tied down near Guadalcanal prevents them from being able to defend other areas (I remember seeing a comment about defending Port Moresby a few videos back). Now that you have two carrier groups the situation is better somewhat, but the necessity of resupply and rearming those groups after their air complement gets whittled down will still lower overall strike capability. Submarines were historically used to make up for this deficit in the Pacific campaign, and overall provides good intelligence and also strike capability at relatively low cost and risk to yourself.
Hi George, yes I am currently moving a sub into the Slot and I think I'll purchase another from New Hebrides and get it underway as a replacement (assuming that the original will soon either be out of ammo or a casualty of war).
I wish they'd add a IJN/USN toggle in the ship list.
Funny thing is, when you play ijn the japanse ships are on top of the list,when you play americans the american ships are on top of the list, so you always have to scroll down to identify enemies.
Sorry for my previous comment about ship scuttling conditions. I'll probably post a question about it in the forums and see if the devs answer.
Let us know what you find out! Cheers
Not sure if the game properly models radar but I personally wouldn’t have used radar...Yes you can find surface targets faster but they can see you even better...Radar's like a flashlight, yes you can see in the dark but everyone can see where the light is coming from. Just my two cents..Keep up the good fight!
In modern terms you are correct, active emissions, aural or electronic, are like a giant flashlight. Ships and aircraft of the time had very little ability to detect sonar and less ability to detect radar. If they did detect it they only had a general line of bearing. Radar for fire control was still in its infancy. It terms of the game, I would use radar until I saw negative consequences.
One possible idea for those long submarine patrol routes: Maybe set the last waypoint so that it's right in the middle of the patrol area, rather than at one of the corners of the "box." That way, if you don't notice that they have finished their route right away, at least they will be sitting still in a position where they are most likely to make contact with enemy ships.
Also in the last DD attack there was no directional change with your sub, what I’ve noticed watching and not playing many videos and streams is that the enemy DD’s will always beeline to the area quite accurately, much better than the player can.
Going deep changing direction immediately then slowing down just before the torpedoes hit. Just before the torpedoes hit because they don’t know your there yet. So high speed is still possible until impact. This well give you the highest possibility of avoiding being detected. Good hunting.
Here's a fact which may or may not be modeled in this game, since so much isn't modeled properly. The harder you turn the more noise you make, even if going slow. Sail "casual". It's quieter.
I like what you have been doing with this series . I also think that since this is early in the games development , it is the ideal time to find and use the exploits , so they get caught early.
Yes, quite right. That's the only reason I'm using these exploits... for the game's development, of course!
I really hope thye make a Mediterranean version the airstrikes were crazy in that theatre carriers having to dodge left right and centre two brilliant campaigns
Really enjoying your playthrough. I keep a sub in the Slot and it gets plenty of action, though I have lost a couple there, I'm still in front in tonnage. I have learned to fire from more than 2,000m if I want to have any chance of surviving. I'm learning how to manage air attacks from your videos!
What? Dropping bombs from 8000 feet with pinpoint accuracy isn't realistic?! No!
I too was shocked.
Whenever a column of ships is moving forward in a line of two or one you should bring in the torpedo bomber‘s left and right basically making it impossible for the ships to move out-of-the-way. This was a tactic during World War II which is cool but I’m pretty sure with your skill you can make this a viable tactic.Another benefit to this is when ships try to move out of the way they will be pinched from torpedoes left and right so you’re guaranteed at least a hit or two and God for bid those duds!!!!!
Luckily for us, the AI doesn't dodge, so we can use quite simple tactics.
It'd be nice to see proper aircraft available like Beaufighters and Kittyhawks out of Milne Bay
And eventually P38 Lightnings. Gotta kill Yamamoto somehow!
am really liking the series so far, i cannot play the game yet but as far as i know, its a lot like VaSP (victory at sea pacific)
would really like you to return and do a japanese campaign.
I expect to do a Japanese campaign after this one =)
@@TortugaPower am excited
Again, i should point out that Despite Atlanta having better AA, Brooklyn is cheaper, has way better ASuW capabilities and has scout planes in order for the CV fighters to be relieved from all their duties. on the other hand the Atlanta's AA advantage could be neglected by just adding 1 extra DD, which also brings more torps and gives a further advantage to ASuW and ASW
when you turned away from the destroyer you should have went to port to you were in her baffles, would let you go faster because she cant hear you.
also you need to break your aircraft into different directions right after the bomb drop. it helps split the flak up a lot
The USS San Diego made it through the war without suffering a single KIA. She was a lucky ship.
Sorry I’m late! Had something come up, so catching up now. I loved your idea with the Avengers in your previous episode having them in a line and then manually dropping the bombs. And yeah, bomb bay doors, haha. Maybe a checklist for level bombing would work? I use to do that in CFS 3 as 9/10 I would try to drop my bombs with the bay closed... I admit it. Used a sticky note. ^_^” And holy heck, AWESOME shot with your submarine on that destroyer!!! I am no good at that myself, wish I had your eye! Loving the series!
you lost the dauntless because you weren't at 8000ft...you ran them at just over 5000ft, well within flak range
This is why post commentary is less frustrating to watch. He is trying to balance continuously talking and paying attention to what he's doing. Half the time the "bugs" he's talking about he just forgot or wasn't paying attention. That isn't the devs fault...
Japan
Main article: Imperial Japanese Army shipping artillery
The Imperial Japanese Army established several shipping artillery units during World War II. These units provided detachments to protect Army-operated transports and chartered merchant ships from air or submarine attack. The Imperial Japanese Navy also formed air defence squads from April 1944 that were deployed on board ships. :)
Hehe San Diego, watashi wa numba one
Also not sure if its true, but historically if your planes are going after ships, especially Cruisers, you want AP bombs. HE bombs should be for bombarding ground targets. Might be worth expirementing with. A 1000lb AP Naval bomb should be devastating against any surface target.
If anything, you should keep an eye out for any Japanese forces heading to the New Guinea bases. Santa Cruz is only worth taking just to say that you took it, also that the base doesn't fall instantly to Japanese presence. The island of Malaita as a base interests me the most.
Following from episode 7 comment:
The catastrophy has been averted!
. Japanese fleets have retreated from Rennel Island, deciding to resupply the island instead. By sheer luck of the us command, and determination of their pilots and sailors, Enterpise was saved. With the coming of the Task Force 10 into the area of operations, US navy finally has a surface fleet presence of their own. With TF10's cruisers on the seas, the carrier group is no longer the only reliable offensive tool in the american arsenal. Nevertheless, Enterprise remains the tip of the spear in the Guadacanal campaign. thgouh.... that tip is getting blunter every hour.
In three days of operations, enterpise has lost 2/3rds of her bomb-carrying aircraft. Enterprise's airgroup was the crutch on which any offensive efforts stood, but soon it would be taken away. The airwing no longer had the force of its early operations, and soon it would stop existing alltogether. Enterprise had to be pulled back, in order to replenish its airgroup, but it was obvious that the moment it would leave the theatre, IJN would become the dominant force once again.
However good news reach the command at 14:00. Hornet's task force has just entered the theatre. Enterprise will only need to hold for a short time, before once again a full airgroup will rain down from the heavens upon the japanese warships. And after enterpise comes back with its own airwing replenished, the USA will show the Hirohito's lackey's the true meaning of air dominance.
But the war is far from over. Guadacanal is being continuously reenforced, and it is slowly but steadily turning into a formidable fortress. There isn't nearly enough troops, or even ships that could carry them, to launch the invasion. And guadacanal is only one strongpoint of many. It will take many more lives untill the victory is achieved, but under the leadership of Admiral Toruga, our victory is only a matter of time!
[us anthem starts playing]
Hey btw at least for aircraft the nav mode only deflects the rudder part of the way, so if you need to change direction really quickly manual rudder is better than nav.
I have a suggestion for the developers, . How do you know if you clicked on silent, (running)? Make it a toggle switch. Silent running, on/off. Just an example. I have a dozen more.
As of now my only gripe about the game is the aircraft RTB mechanic. Am playing an IJN campaign and sunk the Enterprise very very early on and was very excited about that however I lost nearly all of my aircraft in the process and had to return all the way to Rabaul to replenish. During her return voyage my cruiser task forces were taking a heavy pounding from US cruiser taskforces and I lost all of them, really wished I had a carrier in the vicinity to support at the time.
Basically I hope they update the RTB mechanic to where I can fly out aircraft to my Aircraft carrier from land bases to replenish it. In the time it took to have my carrier fleet to return to Rabaul the rest of my fleet got slaughtered by US surface fleets. I tried to mitigate it with concentrated submarine wolfpacks and it helped a little but not nearly enough.
Basically I hope they update the game to where you can fly out aircraft to your Aircraft Carriers from land bases to replenish.
Also I hope they update the map to world feature. A big reason as to why I lost all of my cruiser task forces is because I had them split up, I saw a large US force near Guadalcanal and converged all three of my task forces in perfect unison toward it, they all reached in the same time however when I entered the world only one would show thus I had to attack the task force one by one by one and I paid a heavy price for it.
I don't mind carriers going back to rearm for planes. It seems realistic that they need replenishment, and I don't think carriers were resupplied with new airplanes by them being flown in.
I would tentatively suggest Milne Bay as a left-field option for a level 5 airfield, bit of a departure from the historical narrative with potentially excellent strategic value.
Based on the Mk.I eyeball the distance between the New Hebrides and Guadalcanal (B17 operational range) is, if applied around Milne Bay, more than enough range to patrol the entire Solomon Sea, quite a few of the Solomon Islands including the top of The Slot, Bougainville, etc and all the way up into the Bismark Sea covering New Britain, New Ireland and therefore Rabaul. You could seriously jeopardize the Japanese Supply lines in the Solomon Sea, Islands and Bismark Sea, which would make capturing Guadalcanal and then the rest of the Solomons significantly easier, not to mention just generally being a major nuisance for the Japanese no matter what they try to do. The Battle of Milne Bay, where the Japanese were first outright defeated in a land battle while Guadalcanal was still being squabbled over, was fought to protect three airfields that were being constructed there to establish aerial dominance over that theater of the Pacific.
The area doesn't seem to be heavily contested at the moment and establishing a Lvl5 Airfield would give you the capability to instantly respond to surface contacts and groups discovered by your scouting aircraft, as opposed to being lost and nearly surprising you like those two invasion task forces that popped up near Rennell Island after disappearing in the Solomon and evading your surface units. A Lvl5 Airfield on Rennell Isl as well would give you complete strategic aerial coverage over the entire theater, if constructed to compliment a Lvl5 AF at Milne Bay.
Just a suggestion of course, and an alternative to the usual "Guadalcanal or bust" attitude that seems pretty common because it follows the historical narrative.
If not I would strongly suggest at the very minimum you get a second supply task force established because one just isn't going to get those critical resources moved to where they need to go fast enough to compete with the numerous supply groups the Japanese have moving around.
Loving this series and especially the pace at which you're putting out videos. Really helping scratch the itch for more War on the Sea content!
I like the suggestion. It's very well thought-out. Plus, you would have Port Moresby for air superiority support very close by.
The main issue I see is that you have to build a level 5 airbase on Guadalcanal to win, so it's almost that the game tries to shoehorn the U.S. into historical play there.
@@TortugaPower true, I forgot the Lvl5 Airbase on Guadalcanal victory requirement so that's my bad. I'm a bit surprised Brisbane isn't available in Australia as a base/resupply port as there were quite a lot of US troops stationed there throughout the war and it was a US naval base as well.
If not an alternative history approach then I'd still keep the recommendation to get a few more resupply/transport groups mobilized, seeing as getting a Lvl5 on Guadalcanal will be a pain unless you let the Japanese do it for you, then capture it.
I also wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to detach a DD and the Atlanta Class from the carrier force when the CV is returning to resupply. The DD's and CL have, as far as I can remember seeing, done basically nothing except shoot down scout planes even in the active combat zones. When the CV needs to resupply the other ships still have basically all their ammo, so having them detach and maybe move around as another two-ship patrol group might make the most of the available ships you have. Then when the CV comes back out the two smaller forces rejoin before heading back into the hot zone.
Thanks for the reply, your active interest in and interaction with your community is a huge credit to you as a creator!
When you sink a ship. Will that ship be available again in the roster, or will it be shown as unavailable/lost? The amount of Heavy Cruisers you have sunk, must soon mean that the Japanese navy have none left. Can you chose what kind of aircraft you want on a airbase? Dive bombers instead of torpedo planes? I miss the P-38 Lightning in the game. That fighter was amazing! :)
No, the ships that are sunk are retired from play. I think that's also the case for the AI, although it's not clear to me yet. You do not choose your aircraft.
@@TortugaPower AI design spawns 'missions' without using combatpoints ,sure feels like seeing the ships over&over&over again, think ai would run out of off ships before we can even get 1500 engeneering to even get the rank 5 airport build ( 14 week minimum).Read this in forum as someone dug through gamefiles.
I couldn't quite see- are yorktowns the only carriers available to the US? Are Saratoga, Wasp, or CVE's available?
They are not. At least for now, hopefully the dev adds them.
Might want to beef the protection for those carriers, maybe another cruiser in case of surface attack
From my understanding, Dauntlesses didn't have bomb sights like normal bombers, but instead had the telescope bomb sight in front of the pilot for dive bombing.
Which means level bombing would of been literally impossible for the Dauntless if you wanted to hit anything at all. Since you like to RP alot in this game and make up reasons for stuff, maybe you should only Dive Bomb with the Dauntless? To get around the games oversight? Just an idea.
Also, from my sources and books I have on dive bombing, and stuff I've read, Glide Bombing wasn't done often, and it was usually very ineffective in most cases. It required the plane to fly at nearly stall speed to make the bombing accurate, which made the planes much easier to hit, and even then it wasn't nearly as accurate as simply dive bombing by a large margin, because the Dauntless didn't have sights that could properly compensate for the angle. The Dauntless sights were for going nearly straight down, not gliding.
I'll take the bit from Wikipedia, since it reflects exactly what my book says.
At the Battle of Midway, Marine Corps SBDs were not as effective. One squadron, VMSB-241, flying from Midway Atoll, was not trained in the techniques of dive-bombing with their new Dauntlesses (having just partially converted from the SB2U Vindicator). Its pilots resorted to the slower but easier glide bombing technique. This led to many of the SBDs being shot down during their glide.
Dive bombing was actually, ironically safer, and had a vastly higher success rate.
Thanks for all the info, Angelic. My comments about glide bombing were directed at the Avengers, and are supposed to reflect the Navy's own evaluation of the situation at Guadalcanal, when the feedback was that torpedo bombers are slow and ineffective at torpedo attacks in good weather.
@@TortugaPower
Oh Avengers. I thought you were talking about Dauntlesses..
Dauntlesses attempted glide bombing several times, and ended in disaster. Avengers are a different story.
Another day another episode.
Ive been watching a lot of war one the sea gameplay recently and I've noticed that not many people try to build up their western bases. If you were to build up one of the bases you have to the west like port Moresby, would you be able to resupply your carrier task force while keeping them somewhat closer to the combat than if you were to send them south, or even have more access to more avengers, B17s, Dauntlesses, etc that could harass Japanese convoys?
Is this one of those things that are grouped together? The 5th US Army Air Force under Kenney and MacArthur controlled that part of the map - the eastern half was a naval affair under Nimitz and Ghormley later Halsey.
The problem with the western bases is that building up anything to higher levels requires more and more resources (like fuel), and that's fuel that you can't use on the critical area around Guadalcanal.
Refreshing browser
9:57 "Cheesy" level bombing. You're not fighting WW 2, you're playing a game. The "rules" are different. In real life dive bombing is better, so that's what they did in the war. In this game level bombing is better, so that's what a smart player does. If/when the developer changes the rules, the player changes play.
I don't and won't play the game myself, but your game play appears to be pretty good so far. I applaud your experimental approach.
That's a very reasonable perspective! It's always unfortunate when we have to game the game, but as you said that's what the real life generals and admirals were trying to do in their own situations.
Thank you for not cussing in your videos ..
just a little info, you can check wich ships you sunk already and wich you lost in the menu, it shows wich ships they were even if you miss identified them.
It's entirely my fault that I keep forgetting to show this screen during a recording. Hopefully I remember next episode!
@@TortugaPower well if you don't, ill comment each video until you do 😉
Have you thought about creating a sub Wolfpack?
You may be able to have each sub target a different target with a high solution chance, then launch all around the same time. You should be able to hit all targets before they go evasive .
Let me give this some thought. It seems powerful if you can sacrifice the recon aspect of multiple subs.
Played a bit with wolfpacks(4 subs) with varying results, best eliminating whole 10 convoy, but you can't hit all of them at once, but taking out those with depthcharges out first and limping them ,making the whole convoy slow works to a degree. I find the game at it's best when you recon, weaken a convoy or fleet with subs and airplanes first and finish them with surface fleet , more fun because more variety in gameplay.
And about losing the recon aspect of subs,they have planes of their own.
I see you going carrier heavy, will you build a battleship at some point this run as in a rp perspective they would make invasions much easier, be great for AA/carrier defense, and be a very powerful surface combatant that would raise the moral of the sailors.
As well as bombard when your landing troops in a contested port. Don't forget to land troops with supplies or they fail!
@@snigie1 thats what I meant when I said makes invasions easier because in real life nothing can match their fire power.
My plan was to use our heavy cruisers for bombardment. I'd like to get a BB but they are 3x more expensive than CAs. Are they more effective at shore bombardment? I don't know.
@@TortugaPower I'm saying if we are pretending its real life, I have no experience playing this game so I wouldn't know.
The tutorial says bombardement lowers airfields and ports, doesn't say it makes invasion easier i think.
can you bomb Guadalcanal with your B-17 from your Homebase?
B17s can fly to guadalcanal but you cant bomb port or airfield
@@MsIndycar but when you try to capture the island can they help like shore bombardments?
@@mrtuocs8531 nope you need Heavy cruisers or battleship to bombard
@@MsIndycar ok, thanks for the answer
@@mrtuocs8531 no probs
USS Hornet and USS Juneau. TF of the doomed ships?
you should upgrade a port to level 3. maybe the first island
Needs 300 engeneering for third level, so 600 total, that's waiting 5 weeks (start with 100,get 100 every week) without doing anything else, he's 2 days in,33 to go.and then you are nowhere near the endgoal of 5th level airport on Gaudal.
I fucking love the sub hunting music!!
always attack carriers first, cargo ship second, warships last
I find subs attacking me and when I turn on my sonar and go in the direction I find the ships cannot pick up the sub. I had three ship turning looking spread out and not one hit on the sub
Just to trigger history nerds I would call one carrier group TF 38, the other TF 58.
I just bought this game and my dive bombers if you give them orders to attack or bomb they just crash into the ocean, has this happened to you?
I wonder if dud torpedos would do damage to a thinly armored destroyer.
They were known to dent the hull, but nothing mission critical.
make the carrier task force which squish the enterprise with task force 10
is there a fuel mechanic in this game? ie. you send out a ship and eventually it has to go re-fuel or an aircraft carrier can run out of fuel for its planes? and if so could you send an oiler to a controlled island and get it picked up from a forward base?
No such mechanic in game, you can go forever it seems, but you run out of ammo quickly though.
now that u have 2 carriers, have the Horent relieve the Enterprise of its duties so the enterprise can return to port. Even better, combine the carrier forces into a single fleet along with the heavy cruisers and the 2 destroyers u sent out earlier for screening
I think first Enterprise will get a rearm, and then we can use them together, although I may choose to keep them in separate TFs as a nod to history.
@@TortugaPower Historically they were both in Task Force 16 throughout Midway to Santa Cruz
Wel I have 2 say I actually like the high altitude bombing and especially with the carrieraircraft saves planes means more encounters and land based are free so I would love to see a cheese bombing with a mass kamikaze atleast once this campaign
How many torpedo's in WWII were actually duds? Is this realistic, or a balance in the game?
American torpedoes were notoriously bad with less than a fifty percent success rate. If you watch Wolfpacks Japanese play through, you'll see that there are way fewer duds if you're using Japanese torpedoes.
Interesting, you can turn of duds i saw in gameplay options if you don't like 'em.
Do you know if they are planning to fix the issue of enemy ships not moving or evading aircraft attack by any chance?
I don't know, but I pray they do.
Does the transport fleet have orders? Or are they just REALLY slow.
They are really slow =(
Fell a little behind in episodes! Stupid school!
Regarding the level bombing being far too accurate / effective - I believe I saw you can turn off the bomb aim markers in settings somewhere, which might help make those unguided bombs act more like unguided bombs. Though that begs the question of how you can aim after turning it off!
No matter what, sometimes a little cheese is ok.
What a brilliant idea to send your bombers over all those ships and AA-guns of the convoy to give them better chances to kill your planes. Freighters first!
You make the same mistakes over and over again. Why do you launch your torps miles away ans why do you waste four on a single destroyer? Get closer and have better chances to hit all targets using your front tubes as well.
Am I wrong for turning off duds? I once hit a cruiser with 6 torps and 4 were duds and I was beyond annoyed. It's a cool mechanic but it seems too prevalent, anyone know if the dud rate was that high in reality? I have heard the early war American torps were unreliable.
From what I've read American torpedoes were actually as unreliable as in the game with around a 50% failure rate. Ive even read of cases where a sub launched torpedos at a convoy and one looped around and sank the sub which had launched it.
The early Mark 14 torpedo was horrible, it ran 10 feet too deep, often exploded either prematurely( magnetic detonator) or not at all (impact detonater) and had a tendency to run in circles. I'd say the games portrayal of the mark 14 is somewhat too good ^^
For a indepth look in the topic, i can recommend Drachinifels video on it
He did a great vid on it. I think 50% is being generous compared to historical %.
@@mactator510 Cheers will watch, I don't know if I can bring myself to turn duds back on though
@@stevepirie8130 The dud rate was directly proportional to the angle of impact. The way the detonator was designed caused the firing pin to jam in direct impacts to the head of the torpedo. The impact would crush the nose of the weapon and deform the firing mechanism, causing the jam. The impact detonator would work fine if the weapon struck at a 45 degree angle, but since the optimal attack would aim broadside on for the best chance at scoring a hit, the effective failure rate in the field was disproportionately high.
So when will i see the fuso and colorado bbs?
Not in game
South Dakota, north carolina
Kongo and yamato
Question for everyone else. Is there a way to scroll on the maps? Both minimap and combat map. I also play on laptop without a mouse so that's not an option.
Think so, keys are customizable.
@@Medikto Not for zoom. Kinda sucks