Here's how Harley fixes their problem. STOP charging so dqmn much for EVERYTHING. There's a reason that younger people aren't buying them. They cost too much, and the "kids" don't care about the brand. They can get a better (yes, I said better, and all I've owned is Harleys) bike with more features, more power, better mpg , and a shit ton less money. Will it be a Hatley? No, but again they don't care. Only us "old" guys care about the HD brand, and we are willing to buy used, or just fix and maintain our own bike.
I agree with everything you are saying, but there is a younger crowd out there. Last year, my 18 year old daughter passed the rider skills course and she LOVES riding her new Harley....everywhere!! Of course I bought it for her, but she has some friends that are doing their skills course this spring. I think the new SG/RG's offer something new that some younger kids will like. At least I'm hoping so.
I’m an old guy who doesn’t care about brand. I like change, and am not stuck in the mud buying the same old thing year after year after year…I care about what the best bike for me is at any given time. I sold my 2019 Road King for more than I paid for it and bought a Honda. There are a lot of great bikes out there right now if people are open to change.
I've been riding Harleys for nearly 20 years and I agree with everything you said. If I were looking for a brand new bike today it would not be a Harley. Even with all those features I still can't fathom how it justifies that price tag. A whole car with a bigger engine, way more parts, an interior, a stereo, air conditioning, airbags, emission equipment, and twice the suspension components still costs less than this bike. I can't wrap my head around these motorcycle prices especially after working on bikes and knowing how little is actually there.
@TRC_WAhave you checked out the new Goldwing. Everything you want from an Indian or HD, and Japanese reliability. Unless it's the American style your looking for.
That is exactly what I did with my 2005 Road Glide. Went to an excellent builder in Minnesota (General Engineering) and now my RG is 103" with S&S crankshaft, oil pump and new pistons. Cams have been replaced with something much better and this dynos @ 135 lb/ft and 109 HP. The rest of the bike got new oil lines and ANY part that looked marginal was replaced. This bike now has over 112K on it and all this work was around $10-$11K. Point being that the surcharges and add-ons from dealers make a new Harley stupid expensive. Who can justify the pricing on what is essentially a toy? I also found that you do need to scrounge for new electronics on these older bikes so I have a new ECM, turn signal/alarm module and fuel injector sitting on my shelf when the original parts go south. Having a set of Wilbers also makes this bike feel new.
I’ve got about 40-45k in my 2018 SG. There is no incentive for me to trade in. It will be the last bike I buy and if the motor blows I can get a new motor. A 2001 looks about the same as a 2020 but the brand new ones I’m not sure about. The two best things about keeping the bike you have are no payments and not having to go to the dealer. There are enough garage queen used bikes out there for the next 10 years of Harley buyers. The young guys play around with Groms because they can get one new for $3,500.
Almost all the HD dealers in my area have expanded into “Powersports” dealers and now sell things other than just Harley’s. Currently, when you walk into one of these places you can see that the Harley’s still command 75 percent of the floor space. It’s easy to see that that will dwindle over time and in 10 years or so the HD branded products will occupy but a corner.
An empty showroom looks bad, but so does one with 200+ units on the sales floor and the "only" customers seem to come out for the free hot dogs and beer once a month.
But James, they brought the big monthly payment on themselves. It's just unfortunate that the same faces come to the free food/veer day, spend no money but still batch about what kind of beer we are giving away...free of charge.
Your absolutely right! The dealers are jacking up prices on their new 2024 touring models. I priced a beautiful 2024 Blue Burst road glide…the salesman told me that the bike was in the mid 30’s range. And, they lowballed me on my current road glide with little mileage. Harleys greed knows no bounds. It’s a real shame.
They went overboard on the "Harley Culture" b.s., and over charged for absolutely everything they could slap a logo on. They jacked the prices up beyond market tolerance and didn't seem to give a damn that they were pricing most of their new clients right out of the dealers. The wanna-be's that had $ have mostly already bought their bike and now it sits in the garage, still looking new. The upcoming riders don't have the $ right now that HD wants and have wisely turned to other brands that look just as good, ride better, are more reliable, and cost allot less. HD shot themselves in the foot. They get zero sympathy from us.
Yep. Haven’t seen a 2024 RG or SG that isn’t $30k out the door. MSRP means nothing anymore. Thats just what the website says to get you in the door so you can get screwed in secret once you start talking numbers in a sales office.
Harley is a marketing genius...Im not so sure these new bikes are cheaper...yes you get a bigger motor and new tech but hey if you buy a painted fairing and have installed thats about 1500...350 for navigation so by the time you get it equal to the special its about the same.
GM was in the same boat with the Corvette, only old people wanted, or could afford them. When they introduced the mid engined Corvette, they came in at a reasonable 50k range. Now they've crept up a bit, but still obtainable with a decent salary paying job.
I’m an older rider myself. this will be my 60th year of riding got my mc license at 16. Bought a brand new 2022 St. Glide, have an anniversary 2008 Dyna. One of my bikes probably will be sold this year. They already have a surcharge on the bikes of 1k. If that continues for 2024 it will make it harder for new riders to purchase a new bike. Harley’s latest pitch is 10% down you pay all the taxes, lic. , and doc and setup fees. With excellent credit you have a payment of 390.00 for 96 mos. At over 12% interest. That’s 8years on a bike loan. Old guys like me are done buying new bikes. Younger guys with families in today’s economy can’t afford the cost. There were plenty of bikes at Harley dealers here last summer. Problem was not enough interest. One Harley dealer Heritage closed its doors for good. Most local dealers are owned by big investment firms. One here is still family owned for now! Harley is loosing its core older customers . The younger ones can’t afford to buy a bike that cost as much as a car!!
@TRC_WA Yes, $42+ before fees. Insane money. The 2024 Toyota Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD that I'm about to buy Stickers for $42K. A BMW S1000XR set up four touring with 170 hp is around $25K OTD. No way people like us that ride Japanese or European bikes can justify $50K for cruiser.
I’ve been riding HD for the past 20 years after having ridden Japanese bikes for the previous 20. I can afford the new Harleys but I don’t want to. I’ll probably go European with these prices.
Ya your right = l Road Hds from 1999 through 2017 = 6 New = 2 used low mile bikes = Had a Blast = l avg 16 k a year on milage = Sold them at Around 30 k miles = Very reliable and l did my own Fluid changes = The Times have Changed = Jobs - interest Rates - inflation = lts gona be Tuff Market for Cars & Trucks & Motorcycle = And Alot of other items going forward = lm 65 now and slowed my Pace some = l won't Be buying or taking Out loans for Much anymore & And I really think the Older Gen of gota have A HD has Thindout Bigtime = Times they Really are a Changing 😢
Everyone should just ride what they have until the wheels fall off. Stop falling into the trap of always having the latest and greatest from the dealers. It's a losing proposition. I've had my 04 flht for 20 years now. 202,000 miles. It's been everywhere, many times over. Yes, I could have gotten new bikes during that time, didn't feel the need. But that's just me.
This right here! I don’t understand how people trade their bikes in every two years and keep taking that financial hit. It’s a bike, ride it and enjoy it.
Also agree. Got 71k miles now on my 2014 Honda, and I never think of selling it for something else. It's fits me well. I seldom take test rides either, 'cause I don't want ride something much better and feel disappointed with my own.
Food for thought. No analog gauges at all. All electronic screen. What happens if you have an electrical problem, blow a fuse. Your now riding blind. No speedometer, gas gauge, etc. will this affect the bikes safety features also? If you noticed the bike has led built in turn signals, no bulbs to change. Instead you change the entire assembly. First year model changes are a big risk in my opinion. Like when Harley introduced the M8 in 2017 with the oil pump problems. You were left on your own to correct the problem, no Harley recall or warranty coverage. Careful my wind brothers when considering a new 2024!
Funny, I just went through the same experience with an Italian brand. I test rode a 1 year old used bike and the salesman called me everyday for 2 weeks after I told him I didn't want to buy it or anything else right now.
@@kurtruppenthal9506 My local HD shop doesn't have free cookout s anymore. They have a OCC restaurant that charges $20 for a cheeseburger without cheese. As overpriced as a OCC motorcycle.
Owned Harleys most of my life + many other brands. When I reached my late sixties (I'm 77 now) I could see my two wheeled days were numbered so I went to the Harley Dealer and priced a new Tri-Glide. At the time, it was $38,000 plus taxes and fees. F that. Seeing as riding a trike is not like riding a motorcycle I figured I'd buy a convertible before I'd pay that much for a (any) Harley. I went out and bought a 2 year old Mustang convertible with less than 10k miles for less than half the sticker and saved upwards of 20k. And, we're still in the wind....so to speak. We've traveled coast to coast in the Mustang, I have no regrets. Harley priced themselves beyond what I was willing to pay (cash) for a motorcycle.
I looked at new Harley’s two years ago, wanted a new Fatboy. I went to two different dealers looked at a new bike, and a used new bike. Both dealers surcharged the floor price so badly I walked out. 5K up charges are BS . The greed of dealers is killing Harley sales. I finally found a dealer without up charges on his bikes . He’s selling them so fast he cannot keep bikes on floor. This is a dealer problem. Harley corp is not stupid . The need to do like GM , eliminate dealer subsidies. Reward sales numbers. Drop prices of bikes period.
I had a '12 SG for 8 years. When it came time for a new bike I didn't even consider HD. I bought a Triumph Tiger 900 adventure bike. And I'm 58 years old. Best bike I've ever owned.
I've had three. Always wanted a harley but honestly wasn't very impressed for the money. Bought a Yamaha Tenere this year best all around bike. Awesome performance out the box for under 13k. No offense to Harley owners but today's harley riders are douchebags.
I had two and couldn’t wait to get rid of my last one. The Harley life is going to a dealership and watching a bunch of old fat people sitting around and other vendors trying to sell the same crap for 50 years. The young people are not into this old people’s overpriced motorcycles.
2023 Harley Ultra Limited Anniversary for sale, $33,899, before tax and fees. That puts you at almost $40K OTD for a regular Harley. I have a good job; who has this kind of money? Harley makes BMWs seem cheap. I'd love a new Harley but I'd feel like a moron for being the sucker lining up for that...
I sold my '05 Electra Glide. Then I rode a '17 BMW R1200RT with all the spendy add-ons in pristine condition and was SOLD. That bike is amazing. Not going back to Harley. And, you can get very nice Beemers used (lawyer/doctor trade-ins) for very reasonable prices. They are amazing machines....often hundreds of pounds lighter, more hp and torque, superb handling, brakes, ABS, wind protection, etc. I also have a high paying job but based on pure principal, will NOT spend $30k plus for ANY motorcycle.
M friend in CA says used Beemers are quite cheap, Beemer riders want the NEWEST BMWs so anything used is pretty unwanted. Me, I had a K1200LT and hated it although there was nothing wrong about the bike and it never left me stuck on the side of the road. I'll stick to my Triumph now.@@briand4000
My new 2023 BMW R1250 GS Trophy was cheap! 14% off the MSRP sticker in Nov of 2023 at my local dealership. Quality of suspension, and features> No comparision, Advantage, BMW, all the way.
I just bought a 2023 107 Street Glide $25k otd. They can keep that anniversary edition. Now in another month I'm slapping a stage IV 119 on it, and still cheaper than the new 117.
Not only would I never pay over MSRP . I never even pay MSRP. I have walked out of many dealers over the years just to purchase it at a better price from different dealer.
Harley's were in high demand during the 90's. If you ordered, say, a black one, you may end up with a white one. If you refused, you may have to wait another 6 months for the black to come in. Then, the bike was usually full of extras that you didn't order. Take it or leave it is what they said. I think that's what soured people on Harley ownership.
Interest rates… two years ago I could get a 3.5-4.5% interest rate with a 760 credit score. Today in closer to 10% interest. I’m not purchasing anything until I can get under 5% again
You can get rates under 5% with your own banks/credit unions. My dealers here in Houston ALL said the interest rates with the banks they partner with were 7% and up in december 2022 when I was looking. 1 phone call later to my personal bank (usaa) I had 3-5% rates offered with 12-72month options/rates in-between. Showed the finance guy I got a check for him if he wants to play ball. I even let him run my credit and the best he could do/find at the time was 7% with my measly 650+ credit score. Mind you I have a mortgage, and a credit card that I always max every month(10k) and pay off every month and messed up my credit utilization but the banks can see that. Scores NOT everything but it definitely is a starting point. Then they wheel and deal you with numbers like if you take their financing they'll make money on the backend and knock off dealer add-ons. OR vice versa you use OSF(outside finance meaning your bank) and pay their msrp plus + and more +. I ultimately walked away because I dislike how Harley Dealers finance guys are. Sales process is atrocious, no sales staff are allowed to give you an OTD. Only the finance guy will talk numbers. I'm a simple guy, give me your best offer OTD whether it's 30k 100k 500k and if it's a fair deal and not some ridiculously inflated price I'll buy it. The financing will work itself out and the numbers will add up if there isn't any fuckassery going on. I know some folks can't get financing for whatever reason, but I don't even window shop unless I have a check or cash in hand. They lost a sale that day. To be fair on us millennial some of us don't really care for Harleys as me personally I see them as old man bikes. Coming from Supersport bikes and dirt bikes, only reason I'm considering a bagger whether Indian or Harley is to relax/chill on my commute to work instead of riding triple digits everywhere I go.
Harley has priced me out of the mkt. I just dropped 2k on my 09 Ultra Classic with 50K miles. That will get me at least two more years with minimum expense.
It won’t be a Harley, but a Goldwing will get you 300k-500k reliable miles with routine maintenance and no oil leaks. I almost bought a new ultra touring till I saw that roadside tinkering and oil leaks were common. I’m no roadside or shade tree mechanic. I break machines! Lol!
I put 40K trouble free miles on a 09 Ultra Classic. I just traded it and miss it. I think if I had it to do over I'd spend a few thousand rebuilding the forks and a few maint items and keep it. @@martinharford774
I always wondered why my local Harley dealer just has "contact for details" under price for literally every single bike that isn't used. I didn't even bother contacting them because to me that meant everything would be more expensive than you want to see. I'll never know now if the Softails were actually a reasonable price or not.
There is no law that a MSRP sticker must be displayed, as there is with cars and light trucks. No Japanese, Indian, BMW or harley dealer I've been to put an MSRP sticker on their bikes. In 10 seconds you can see the MSRP of any bike on the internet so a sticker price isn't even needed. Take your smart phone with you when looking for price.
@@motorman857 I get that, but from my experience my Indian dealer posted prices and discounts online and on their bikes. The local Japanese bike shop did the same as well. Sounds like it's just dealer's choice. Hope you're doing well Jerry.
They can fix the problem by firing JZ. His lack of forethought put HD dealerships in this situation. In my humble opinion, the entire BOD needs to go. You have got to start producing bikes that working people can afford. How many bikes are the wealthiest people buying? It’s all about the rich people at HD and to hell with the blue collar folks.
Thank you motor man. I've been a dedicated rider since 1976, of course like most other people when I was younger it was Nifty Fifty's Honda dreams 305 Scramblers but when I was in the market for a new road bike I had my heart set on a Harley, I went to the dealership and was treated like s***, like they were doing me a favor, so I walked out and went straight to the Kawasaki dealership ,been riding rice burners ever since, no regrets, its the Harley attitude that really turns me off.
I rolled a 1967 Honda 305 off the showroom floor. That bike was reliable and simple to ride. I changed to Sportsters for the next 60 years with a few 74 pan heads in there. When I rode out of the dealership on my new Sportster I was hooked for life. I upgraded each Sportster to Stage One, basically let a 1200 breathe and coax as much throttle response from those reliable EVO motors. I also have a CBR 600 and like it for its smoothness but the Harley Davidson torque is sorely missed. Thank You for the "Remember When"
I won't busy anything from a stealership they'll rob you blind their service work is lousy and over priced also I ride a 89Harley( Springer set up as Heritage Springer The stealerships won't even mount new tires on it Any work I cant do I go to an independent shop to get done this also goes for parts. I need. for repairs I do myself.
Been riding for 52 years. Have had around 20 bikes of which none have been Harleys. Never wanted one because of reliability and handling issues. My kid loves them though and it's something I just don't understand. I can buy a nice lexus car for the same price as a CVO. Simply to much moola for the product.
Don’t save up for a rainy day on a rainy day. You’ll loose the deal. If one doesn’t spend more money on a rainy day they will take it away to pay bills and you will be COVERED 😢
UK here, during the pandemic a dealer tried to buy my Sport glide off me, which I would never sell, its one of the last years European Harley's were made in America, as Triumph did, Harley decided to make our bikes in Thailand, nothing against workers in Thailand, I would never buy a Triumph not made in the UK and the same with Harley Davidson's if its not assembled in America then it can stay in Thailand, I probably won't buy another Harley Davidson again, or at least until they change their minds and ship them from the US again. I've seen a fair few Harley dealers close down lately, hopefully Harley will get the message and start sending US assembled Harley to the UK again.
They’re way too expensive for the average working American. There already many low miles used bikes on the market that aren’t selling. A new Harley is a luxury item in Kansas. Insurance and property taxes alone will break you. Not to mention the expensive maintenance and repair items. And….you can’t even work on the new ones like we could on the older models. Good luck Harley. You gonna need it.
I’ve been riding for almost 40 years, and have owned a few used H-D's. I’ve dreamed about owning a brand new Harley for around 20 years, and at age 55 with my home and everything else paid off, I finally had enough disposable income. I told myself at the end of last year if not now, when? I got a ’23 Heritage year end closeout in December at a great price, and it’s exactly the bike I wanted. I’ve worked my arse off my whole life and for me getting a new Harley was a treat, not something I ever demanded or absolutely needed to have.
@@243wayne1it might be garbage if one has to sell it as your neighbor did. That's off the lot depreciation for most vehicles. Like most of the bikes I've bought over the years, I plan on keeping my Heritage for the long haul. All toys/hobbies are basically a big waste of money, but if they bring happiness and enjoyment and you can afford them, the money doesn't matter that much.
there were too many dealerships when the mid 2000s came around and OCC and jesse james and sons of anarchy made every middle aged man into a wanna be hells angel ...
Time for HD to fade away I doubt very much I'll ever buy a new Harley especially here in Florida where most dealerships are charging 3-4 thousand dollars over MSRP then it's the talk to a salesman then the assistant sales manager then the sales manager just to get a price. I notice when I walk into these dealerships there's not tag on the bikes I have to ask how much for this one? How much for that one? Other dealers the prices are right on the bike no games no BS. Don't want to see a government bail out this time either. After 35+ years of riding HD's I'm over this sh*t show.
My local dealer was purchased by the same owners that own Orlando. Same deal, no prices on bikes. Had to talk to like 3 people to find out they’re charging over MSRP. I walked out, went to a dealer 20 miles away and paid less than MSRP.
I spent my money on an Indian last month. General opinion seems to be that Indian is a smoother, nicer ride. The lifetime powertrain warranty at my dealer speaks volumes to how confident they are in the motor and trans. Depreciate less than Harley’s too… and much less douchy. 😂
I think it was in the 90s when you could go in a Harley dealership and they had no bikes, because the demand was so high. But they had lots of clothes.
The leftover anniversary models are beautiful. They were priced too high last year though. Dealers marked them way up. Now the anniversary paint sets don’t mean much. I’ve thought about one but my current bike is “ just how I want it”. It took me about 3 years and 3-5k to get it exactly right. I don’t want to start over at that. Even the anniversary motorclothes were way too high priced. Lots of leftovers at less than half price now. Overplayed the 120th in my opinion. Still my favorite paint scheme and logos in a long time though. Stocking up on the leftover motorclothes!
The problem with the anniversary stuff was in 2018 the bikes came out in August of 2017 the anniversary party was the end of August 2018, last year the anniversary bikes came out Jan 25th of 2023 and the anniversary party was July 10th 2023, so only 5 months to hype it up and sell.. vs over a year for the 115th stuff… poor planning and execution!!
@@invisible468 Learned my lesson back in 2003 with the 100th Anniversary bikes. When it came time to sell my 100th Anniversary Electra Glide it didn't add an extra dime to the resale. Won't ever make that mistake again.
I'll agree. 2023 sales were down 17%. It's hard to tell what can happen this spring, but only the desperate will pay $5,000 over MSRP to get a 2024 model. I'd laugh and walk out the door.
zero dealer fees , just tax and title with slip ons , intake, sissy bar and tuner and 6yr warranty for $32,218. ... that's with the extra cost of pearl white and black trim $875 and $1300 respectively
Again, its the Corp mentality. Their business model and etiquette is way off the scale too agressive and dictatorial. People like the human touch of the Ma & Pa stores. The Corp needs to chill: know your base - keep the faith - rely on the unique style the brand is known for - stop copying your competition - treat and serve the customer right - bring back the classic Sportster. It aint rocket science.
then i'll read other comments whining about no bronx model this year and how they aren't changing with the times enough .... everyone thinks they have the answer
People that say they want a bronx model would buy a japanese bike first it would be at least a couple grand if not three four grand less they are delusional to think Harley could make something on par.@@Mouthy_Trucker
Now people are claiming Harleys aren't selling because Harley has gone "woke" - whatever that means. The fact is, Harley sales have been declining every year for the past DECADE. Maybe Harley has WOKEn up to the fact they can't continue making a business out of selling expensive bikes to us old guys having one foot in the grave.
Here's another problem too. Many of us loyal Harley riders are 60+ now. The 30+ are not into riding or if they are they don't like the bager bikes. Harley isn't gonna be selling high end bikes and is older guys are gonna be selling our bikes. The market is gonna be flooded with Harleys new and used. In about 5 years you won't be able to give your old bike away.
Still riding my huge Victory XC tour till the wheels fall off. Criminally underrated bikes. Didn’t realize how good we had it back then. Polaris really frigged up by killing it. Indian or Harley? Sorry Harley.
@@motorman857 I have yet to meet those people but I’m sure they are out there. I tend to think the city dwellers vote blue hoping for a kickback that never comes. The country folks have a different outlook on the “honest graft” that goes on in Sacramento. Your call to shop around is spot on in any state. Shop that trade-in as well if you need a 24. I’ll keep my 08 CVO Road King and laughing all the way to the bank. It’s not what you make, it’s what you keep. Cheers
Harley needs to change their market strategy and fast! I met Bill and Karen Davidson in MA. by chance they were on a run from Wisconsin? They were so down to earth and accommodating all requests for Pics and chatted with whomever wanted to chat. Bill and Karen are people like us. THey were extremely humble from my encounter with them. My Suggestion is use the old supplu and demand rule, simple. Get the numbers down. Peace!
My local dealership is selling the 2024s for msrp with no markups and advertising 3 to 4k off the 2023s in the showroom. They put signs on the bikes windshields with the reduced price. They will probably have to discount them a few more grand to get them to move.
I went to the Harley web-site and did a comparable build for a 2024 Ultra Limited when compared to my 2017 Ultra Limited (with the stage 3 and another 4 grand in upgrades)sitting in my garage. 2024 was over $44,000.00 BEFORE dealer mark up, tax,title,license,and delivery. We'll call it $51,000.00 out the door. That's twice what I have in all 3 of my used and 100% road worthy and nice to look at Harley's.2017 Ultra Limited,2001 tricked out Softail, and 2003 Dyna Lowrider.
@@alp3781and it’s a Honda,you could run a Dakar rally on it for 5 years straight,not change the oil and squirt all your used beers in the gas tank and it wouldn’t skip a single beat.
@@shockashoota That is why I own one. No dispute. Honda is doing something right for 50 years now with the wings. I just ride. I never ride to any dealer, just for food on an open demo days...LOL.
My dealer has the CVO Roadglide ST for a 7k markup. I didn't inquire on the other 24 SGs and RGs. They are packed with 23s, including 3 Anniversary and 3 Fast Johnny models.
I went to a Harley dealer the other day to check out the 24 models and they were definitely discounting the 23s even the 23 CVO which is the same as the 24 style wise. If you are looking to get a CVO the 23 model is going to be a good deal.
Im 27 and my dream bike is the 2024 Road Glide but I cant afford a $26,000 bike with a $350 a month payment when I can go get a street bike like the GSX8R which is a decent mid range bike for $8500 at my local powersports dealer...
@@robbieracer3294 What I'm talking about is comparing a sport bike to a full dresser is like comparing apples to oranges. If cheap is your main concern, get a Navi. If touring in comfort is your main concern, anyone with a brain isn't torn between a heavyweight touring bike and a middle weight sport bike.
My husband looked for and found a ‘96 electra glide with 13,000 miles on it , all original. We paid top dollar for it but we couldn’t justify a 50k new Harley. He specifically wanted an evo powered Harley as we had a ‘95 Heritage years ago.
I've had a fair few Evo's whilst they were great in their day, the M8 runs circles around them, and as reliable as they used to be they are old enough now to warrant extra attention to the upkeep. In my eyes having an Evo now because back in the day they were reliable is a false economy and the power of the M8's is in a different league to those older EVO's
@@ranchodeluxe1 most motorcycles will last a life time if you look after them. Just because back in the day they were reliable compared to AMF bikes, doesn't mean they are reliable now, even 10 years ago I had Evos and I was always without exception working on them to keep them on the road, I love working on bikes, but I just don't want to keep fixing them all the time, or breaking down by the side of the road which was a thing with sportsters.
I've just picked up a brand new zero miles 2023 model Sportster S. I got them to put Cobra cans and a rear light & plate relocate, and with the huge dealer contributions at the moment it was actually a fair bit cheaper than a similarly upgraded used one.
Just bought a 24 for 4k less then msrp. Just saying Harley will work deals to move the 24 cause a lot of people don't like them. I do love my 23 tho got that for less then msrp too. Both are Road glided
That’s why I bought a Tesla when I needed a new car. The direct purchase was the most stress free vehicle purchase I have ever made. Harley would do better to replicate that business model.
@@jimbeam4111 If you go into any Harley dealer or car dealer and say you'll pay whatever the sticker price is and agree to whatever they offer you for your trade, I guarantee the paper work will start flying and you won't have to haggle at all. Just like what Tesla does.
When I asked my nephew who is in college, if he was interested in motorcycling, his answer was a quick no. He also told me that his friends couldn’t care less about motorcycles. It seems that the younger generations are not into motorcycles like we were.
I just bought 2, 2007 cvo Road Kings in Razor Red. One for my brother & one for me. $5500 and $8000. These bikes were $28k new. Mine had a fresh 110cui. Both have replaced leather bags with extended bags painted to match! If love a new roadglide but I'm lovin' this 110 for 8k. I pit a solo saddle on it engine and saddlebag guards for $280 on a bike that looks like new!
Good review Jerry. The dealers have a major problem now with supply and demand!! Good luck to the dealers that think they can charge over MSRP for the '24's, lol!! Hopefully, nobody is stupid enough to buy a '24 over MSRP!! Dealers here in New England are loaded with both '23's and '24's!! Being a repeat customer for 35 years, I feel no mercy for the dealers or the factory!! The factory did this to themselves with their over pricing, very poor R&D, particularly on the new fairings and 12" all digital screen, stupid marketing schemes and delayed rollouts!! I would wait, and never ever pay over MSRP for any bike!!
The dealerships in the UK are suffering two have gone under, and one is closing with rumours of another two following. The bikes are just not affordable for most people with what is going on with the world.
I would buy used or get something interesting like a Motoguzzi or Triumph. My 2013 ElectraGlide Classic is well maintained and running just fine, and has been all over the country. I think I'll just keep it running for the next few years.
My HD friends snob me because I purchased a Boulevard m109r, which has same low end torque as 117 but extra power. However after loosing oil pressure during a trip due to poor gear box sceals and spending thousands to fix it, they told me I did well to buy Japanese. Japanese V-Twins are NOT money pit. But hey, if I was a millionair, I would have several HD in my garage. I would have a Fat Boy or Breakout, a Road King and a Fat Bob... and an employee to bring them to the dealer for maintenance.
i had an m109r , sold it 2 years ago and just bought a 24 street glide , they don't make a windshield that doesn't look stupid on the zuki , plus no cruise , no radio no abs , only 5 gears and a transmission made of glass ... yes they are quick but also HEAVY ! my glide has bags (obviously) a faring, all the tech etc etc and still weighs like 150-200 pounds less . i'll bet with the new 117 and tuned and intake and slip ons its gonna be pretty close to the same power/weight ratio as my zuki was
@@Mouthy_Trucker can’t say otherwise. The M109 is a bike made in 2010, that’s 14 years old tech. I sold mine in 2014 (i had a 2012 model) for something newer and i wouldn’t go back to old tech. That being said, that bike was not meant to have a windshield like a big American cruiser, you had a power bike that was made for the city or suburbs. But I’ve ridden mine much more then that, but i knew what i was getting with the bike. You can’t get a bike and try to transform it for something else. 🤷♂️ But for the time period (2010’s) a great looking bike with a great price. Never had any problems with it (in 2 years and 10 000 miles). And having a 109 cubic inches when my Harley Co-riders were spending $ for kits to upgrade their power, and never even coming close to to my bike, was funny and a lesson for some Harley Church goers. 😄
@@pierrepatry9733 I'm a tech engineer and I know by experience too much hi tech equals troubles. At the end of a work day, I don't want to use or even see any hi tech. I'd rather go fishing or ride my gadget free M109R. I was honestly VERY attracted by some Indians and HD. But i'm the anti theses of the market they are aiming at right now. Gosh, you can't even get a bobber without a stupid computer taking minutes to boot. Now if you think M109R is old tech, well you're in for a surprise. The entire Millwakee 8 series is an attempt to copy the M109R that is 8 valves and 4 spark plugs on a V-Twin EXAXTLY like the M109R. The flimsy gearbox was resolved 12 years ago. When I drove a Honda CM450 in 1988, I couldn't wait to move to a big block with 5 gears. As much as I love manual shifter, I prefer a bike that performs great on 5 gears. For me, 6 gears is not synonymous with relax cruising. Again, if I was rich like an HD rider I would definitely own at least one of them, but I'm just a software engineer supporting a family so I can't afford the maintenance of an HD or Indian ... bummer. I would still keep my M109R though.
@@notyrbsns9321 thank you, that’s a very interesting viewpoint and some valued informations. My friend, i think you would (dislike/hate) my actual bike. A 2020 Triumph Rocket 3R. Now that’s a computer, that comes with a bike lol! But hey, i do have fun with it and smile gettin on it and still be smiling at the end of the day. I guess that’s the important thing. Was nice exchanging with you. Stay safe while riding, but mostly: congratulations for having a family and taking care of your kids. That’s the important thing. 👍
Personally, and I'm like this with most things, if I were in the market for a motorcycle, I'd get a 2023 right at this moment. Way too many major changes in 2024 that I'd like to give it a year for them to work out any problems
Yes Jerry my dealer here in Tallahassee has several left over cvos in that silver color. Plus they have a ton of left over 23's. I did notice they were discounting the 22 and 23 models pretty good. We have some 24 bikes in, not many but a few. Went from no new bikes in 2020-2021 to too many now! Interest rates are high and people dont have free money any more. I think its going to be hard on the dealership,just like alot of car lots now.
Yeah, and the difference between car and motorcycle dealers....people actually need cars, they do NOT need motorcycles. Good luck to the MoCo, they're gonna need it.
I hear ya man, just keepin' it real. I, too can't imagine being without my motorcycles. I rode today with temps in the 20's (F). Screw winter!@@harryhowell5644
2024 Honda Goldwing fully loaded for 35,000 and it comes with REVERSE which Harley still can’t figure out. My next bike will be a Goldwing I’m over Harleys constant gouging.
When I saw the title of the video, the absolute first thing that popped into my mind was the abundance of 2023 left over. Unfortunately Jerry, I believe you are right. They will not discount the 23 but will inflate the 24. Sad situation all around.
@@albertcruz3232 What part of a 12.3 in TFT screen is dinosaur like? What part of 3 different models of USABLE electric bikes are dinosaur like? As a motorcycle mechanic that works on several brands, I have no idea what you are talking about? Which brand is so much farther ahead?
@davidhill850 well, for starters, their grounding points tend to corrode prematurely. They didnt even bother with any covers for the starter or the ecu grounding. The alternators barely put out enough power to keep the bike alive and three, harleys just plain suck. Oh and the "dreaded" harley weak start. For a bike that's been a premium brand for decades, you'd expect more. If that's the basic wiring, I can't imagine how crappy the infotainment system is. And I get you had to let the world know you work on motorcycles but I wasn't comparing it to other bikes. Harley is in a category of its own and should do better
My 2012 FLHXSE3 CVO Street Glide has everything I want or need. All analog gauges, NO screen, lowers with speakers in them for the 400w audio system, an integrated Apple iPod Nano in one of the custom extended bags, speakers in the bag tops (the first Harley that ever came with them), Chubby handlebars, lots of mods/upgrades to the 110 CI engine for better performance and reliability, SE-259e high duration cams, Drago's Dragula 2-into-1 race pipe with a ghost pipe to keep the looks with the extended bags, a giant Big Sucker intake, a custom TTS tune, a Garmin GPS mounted up high on the left side so I don't have to look down at a screen, a custom Corbin seat with orange/silver stitched flames, a color-matched removable Tour Pak with a matching Corbin backrest with the same flames, Rumble passenger footboards that match the rider footboards ($$$), custom curved lighted license plate holder that replaced the ugly stock unit, and on and ON. It's got the most beautiful paint job that ever came out of the MoCo in my opinion... bright orange ("Hot Citrus") on top and dark metallic brown ("Antique Gunstock") on the bottom, with orange ghost flames on all painted parts. It's really a beautiful bike, if I do say so myself, and I've received many compliments on it. It's also SCARY fast... I have never, nor will I ever, let anyone ride it other than the absolute master who did the meticulous TTS tune. It's just too freakin' powerful for the average bagger rider to handle. I am the original owner, having bought it new for $32,600 cash in August 2011 when it had just arrived at the dealer. At the time, it was the only bike like it in my whole state. Nothing I have seen since has enticed me to trade it for a newer bike. Every CVO SG since has had an increasingly plainer paint job that doesn't look anywhere NEAR as good as my bike. I will ride it until the wheels fall off, then get new wheels for it. If I ever sold it or traded it, I would only get a small fraction of what I have invested in it anyway - so it would take something absolutely incredible to entice me to do that, and I just don't see that ever happening. My bike is just perfect for me! 🧡🤠🧡
While watching your video, I went to a Harley Davidson site that I hopefully will be purchasing a motorcycle from. And you are correct. I saw 2023 CVO’s right under $30,000. Usually, they are within the $30,000 range and they stay there a while. I hope I get lucky and can get a 23 for a really good price. Thanks for the tips and you have great information on your website.
I think that my local dealer will jack up the prices on the 2024's and try to demand MSRP on any leftover 2023's. I also think they'll have a hard time moving those 2023's. Makes me happy that I bought a 2022 SG when dealers were scrambling to get used bikes and gave the huge trade in allowances that you were talking about. At my age it'll likely be my last new bike.
Issues - ugly new fairings, agree there are a lot of 23s in our area, prices could be better, need a real sportster back, drop the Nightster, add the Bronx and a full fairing sport bike.
I walked into a dealer last week to get a part. The sales guy walked up to me and the first thing he said was, "We're making great deals on these '23 models." You're right, Motoman. I'm good with my 2019 for a long time, but if I had the funds, I'd add a '23 to my fleet. I like the changes away from the droopy saddlebags and big front wheels.
I don’t have to worry about the price of the 2023 and 2020 Ford Harley because I bought a 2007 Dyna Lowrider for 7500 and I’m super happy with it and it came with the bags and back rest of the luggage rack and I’m having a ball with it
Thank you for your inside on the Harley Davidson market, very Informative. Now I know why my 2022 Sreet Glide is worth less than half of what I paid for it , not used to that. Definitely will have to wait this one out.
On Saturday, the Dealer by me had 23 models $3-$5K off MSRP. They are willing to negotiate to get rid of the 23's. Same with used bikes. I agree the 23 CVO colors didn't do it for me, nice, but not me. The new 24 CVO RG in Legendary Orange is really nice. I just bought one.
I have driven Harleys since 1969 .unfortunately the quality was never great but the newer ones are really bad . My last Harley 2010 SG transmission went out at 48000 miles . You would think building bikes for over a 100 years they could do better than that .my next bike will be Japanese
I never go to a Harley shop. They are incredibly expensive and are forever trying to upscale you stuff that you don’t need or want. I always feel like I’ve been taken advantage of when I’m forced to deal with them.
I've been looking at 2019 and 2020 Street Glides (I'm in love with the scorched orange color, available for only those 2 years) and dealerships have them anywhere from $22,000 to up over $30,000. Who the hell in their right mind would pay over $30,000 for bikes that are 4-5 years old? It's just insanity
My last 3 New Harley's were crap that spent more time in the shop for repairs than on the road(Roadglides)..Seriously they have major engine problems approximately every 2500 miles..And they are still pushing them out the door with the same problems . I left Harley in 2011 and now ride cross country with no repairs. I do my own oil and filter changes with oil /filters from wally world or the local auto parts store. I run regular gas with way more better performance ,and even have walking reverse, I should have made the change years ago..I would have saved a boat load of cash..
Just bought a new 24 streetglide. the only extra I bought was the windshield, $29,700 out the door. Its my first HD and Im 53. Owned Honda, Suzukis, and Yamahas all my life. Love the new Honda Goldwings and wish i would have considered more carefully before buying. But, I will say the new 117 is really nice and so far Im loving the bike. Next road trip already planned. I also own a 2007 750cc Honda Shadow, which is great for buzzing around town. But if you are looking for a great touring bike, make sure you give the new Goldwing a closer look. They also come with an automatic transmission which I dont think HD offers.
Goldwing and Road Glide owner here. Two completely different MCs, one is a sofa on top of a big sewing machine (the Wing 🪽). The other is a muscle car that can be modified and customized to the Nth degree, and I feel different on the RG than I do on my Wing 🪽 Like the wing 🪽 love the Road Glide My useless two cents 😂☮️🤙🏼👊🏻✊
I always wanted a Goldwing. Loved the style of them. I'm a smaller guy and the sheer size of it would give me pause. They have a v6 engine on them? Plus you can probably pull a small trailer with it? Both great bikes in my opinion.
@@m1907_I knew since the announcement of the st models that Harley was going make a big change. Learned that lesson from the original dyna lowrider s and the introduction of the softail m8 lineup
The ‘24’s look so good and have such great improvements, the ‘23’s are going to be hard to sale. I like the changes! But, if I were looking for a deal, I might consider a ‘23. It just depends on where a person is financially.
i was lucky enough to have just sold a property in had inherited so i wanted the 24 and paid cash was able to get the extended warranty thrown in for sticker price plus 15% off anything in the store for the next year
the improvements made on the new 2024 model make the 2023 look like a dinosaur. when you’re talking msrp It’s already hard to spend $27-31k on 2 wheels, but good luck selling last years model for that. I didn’t like the 2024 digital display until I was at a dealership the other day getting parts. I Still don’t like the turn signal in the fairing or the rear bag being shorter and bulged out.
I see a major problem with the 2024's: all of the electronic whiz bang B.S. WILL FAIL and dollars to donuts they will not be parts supported after 10 years(if the owner is lucky). Think a moment: lets put high tech on something that will be exposed to the harsh elements,excessive heat and vibration,and extremes in temperature as the norm (start a desert ride in the 40's and be at 110 8 hours later). What could go wrong? Back to I like my old and repairable limited tech stuff.
All brand new models rely on the consumer to shake out the bugs. All electronic dash is a great idea when riding in the rain for hours. Being its a complete module the cost of replacement will be astronomical. Being a test dummy isn't for me.
Amen Brother!/Thought I was the only one who thinks all this advanced "tech" ia wasteful overkill and distorts the riding experience. I'll keep my 2019 SGS with old school Boom GTS, and Stage 2 engine upgrade.
@@stevenmckenzie8906 I was out on a ride on my 2017 Ultra and had to get out the freaking owners manual to figure out one of the optional controls. Mad at myself and mad at Harley for too many doo-dads. Years ago I had a 2004 Ultra I bought new. Even loaded up it was simpler than my 2017.
Your video was prophetic! My local dealer is marking their 2024 Road Glides up by nearly 15 percent over MSRP. Can't imagine anyone is actually paying that, but who knows!
A dealer drove 300 miles to buy my Road King 2 years ago and paid more than I did new. Turned around and bought an '09 FLHT for $5k. Suits me just fine, as I think the new bikes are ugly and the tech is just more that can fail, and impossible to repair in the garage. If I want tech I would buy a Goldwing - Faster, more reliable and less expensive. Except for the lack of dealer network, Indian would be a good choice too. Harley isn't the only show in town.
I bought a new 2023 CVO Street Glide 2 weeks ago. I had intended on buying a 24 SG. The dealer had marked the 23 down over $5K!! $39,999 OTD! It was their last 23 CVO. Hoe could I say no! I don’t know when they marked it down but I felt I couldn’t pass it up. The 24 regular SG was $29Kish OTD. The way I saw it, I would have spent 6-8K on the 24 and still not had the motor and the front end.
The new bikes 2024 are nice and modern and finally somewhat up to date… the 2023 and below looks dated from decades ago as far as styling cues(some models looks like it came from the 90’s)… Those 2023 glides are staying put for a while with or without discounts…
My bike comes with the following rider aids: 1) Front brakes 2) Rear brakes 3) 1200cc Inline 4 that makes insane HP and Torque. 4) Helmet with massive processing power and data contained within.
I’m old enough to have seen Harley Davidson go through more than a couple of questionable corporate philosophy changes. Going “woke” is certainly a poor decision for HD, but when they realize how it ultimately affects their bottom line, the woke BS will quickly become a thing of the past. If you currently own a Harley, and you like it, by all means keep it. Get all of your parts and accessories, riding gear, etc. from other sources. Don’t buy a new Harley… plenty of low mileage, used Harleys on the market.
Here's how Harley fixes their problem. STOP charging so dqmn much for EVERYTHING. There's a reason that younger people aren't buying them. They cost too much, and the "kids" don't care about the brand. They can get a better (yes, I said better, and all I've owned is Harleys) bike with more features, more power, better mpg , and a shit ton less money. Will it be a Hatley? No, but again they don't care. Only us "old" guys care about the HD brand, and we are willing to buy used, or just fix and maintain our own bike.
I agree with everything you are saying, but there is a younger crowd out there. Last year, my 18 year old daughter passed the rider skills course and she LOVES riding her new Harley....everywhere!! Of course I bought it for her, but she has some friends that are doing their skills course this spring. I think the new SG/RG's offer something new that some younger kids will like. At least I'm hoping so.
I’m an old guy who doesn’t care about brand. I like change, and am not stuck in the mud buying the same old thing year after year after year…I care about what the best bike for me is at any given time. I sold my 2019 Road King for more than I paid for it and bought a Honda. There are a lot of great bikes out there right now if people are open to change.
I've been riding Harleys for nearly 20 years and I agree with everything you said.
If I were looking for a brand new bike today it would not be a Harley. Even with all those features I still can't fathom how it justifies that price tag.
A whole car with a bigger engine, way more parts, an interior, a stereo, air conditioning, airbags, emission equipment, and twice the suspension components still costs less than this bike. I can't wrap my head around these motorcycle prices especially after working on bikes and knowing how little is actually there.
@TRC_WAhave you checked out the new Goldwing. Everything you want from an Indian or HD, and Japanese reliability. Unless it's the American style your looking for.
I'm almost 50, bought a Duke 390 a couple of years ago and love it. 2000 KM per month. I do still like looking at all the options available. 💰💰💰
Seems like the best thing to do is ride what you've got until it dies then rebuild it. The prices of these new bikes are ridiculous.
True, though it is hard as hell to find some parts.
@@gregkeller80 So far it hasn't been a problem but that day may come.
That is exactly what I did with my 2005 Road Glide. Went to an excellent builder in Minnesota (General Engineering) and now my RG is 103" with S&S crankshaft, oil pump and new pistons. Cams have been replaced with something much better and this dynos @ 135 lb/ft and 109 HP. The rest of the bike got new oil lines and ANY part that looked marginal was replaced.
This bike now has over 112K on it and all this work was around $10-$11K. Point being that the surcharges and add-ons from dealers make a new Harley stupid expensive. Who can justify the pricing on what is essentially a toy? I also found that you do need to scrounge for new electronics on these older bikes so I have a new ECM, turn signal/alarm module and fuel injector sitting on my shelf when the original parts go south. Having a set of Wilbers also makes this bike feel new.
I’ve got about 40-45k in my 2018 SG. There is no incentive for me to trade in. It will be the last bike I buy and if the motor blows I can get a new motor. A 2001 looks about the same as a 2020 but the brand new ones I’m not sure about. The two best things about keeping the bike you have are no payments and not having to go to the dealer. There are enough garage queen used bikes out there for the next 10 years of Harley buyers. The young guys play around with Groms because they can get one new for $3,500.
Almost all the HD dealers in my area have expanded into “Powersports” dealers and now sell things other than just Harley’s. Currently, when you walk into one of these places you can see that the Harley’s still command 75 percent of the floor space. It’s easy to see that that will dwindle over time and in 10 years or so the HD branded products will occupy but a corner.
An empty showroom looks bad, but so does one with 200+ units on the sales floor and the "only" customers seem to come out for the free hot dogs and beer once a month.
Hey now, don’t be knocking my monthly free lunch and dinner!
Consider that free lunch is just a small rebate for the huge payment they have to make every month.
But James, they brought the big monthly payment on themselves. It's just unfortunate that the same faces come to the free food/veer day, spend no money but still batch about what kind of beer we are giving away...free of charge.
@@joel8034 That's a fair response.
The remedy, is I bought a 2023 Triumph Rocket-3R 👍🇬🇧🤷🏻♂️
Your absolutely right! The dealers are jacking up prices on their new 2024 touring models. I priced a beautiful 2024 Blue Burst road glide…the salesman told me that the bike was in the mid 30’s range. And, they lowballed me on my current road glide with little mileage. Harleys greed knows no bounds. It’s a real shame.
and still you keep buying them and let them screw you, that means you really stupid.
They went overboard on the "Harley Culture" b.s., and over charged for absolutely everything they could slap a logo on.
They jacked the prices up beyond market tolerance and didn't seem to give a damn that they were pricing most of their new clients right out of the dealers.
The wanna-be's that had $ have mostly already bought their bike and now it sits in the garage, still looking new.
The upcoming riders don't have the $ right now that HD wants and have wisely turned to other brands that look just as good, ride better, are more reliable, and cost allot less.
HD shot themselves in the foot.
They get zero sympathy from us.
Yep. Haven’t seen a 2024 RG or SG that isn’t $30k out the door. MSRP means nothing anymore. Thats just what the website says to get you in the door so you can get screwed in secret once you start talking numbers in a sales office.
Harley is a marketing genius...Im not so sure these new bikes are cheaper...yes you get a bigger motor and new tech but hey if you buy a painted fairing and have installed thats about 1500...350 for navigation so by the time you get it equal to the special its about the same.
GM was in the same boat with the Corvette, only old people wanted, or could afford them.
When they introduced the mid engined Corvette, they came in at a reasonable 50k range.
Now they've crept up a bit, but still obtainable with a decent salary paying job.
My wife got a job at a Harley Davidson dealership, working in service/parts. After three months of watching customers get ripped off she quit.
@@wfdix1 ooh really that's Why huh
Woke don't help either 🎉
@@craigstevens8098probably, you really don't think FHD aren't ripping you off😂 your a nut.🤪 or a Rich Yuppie Guy😂
Dealers rips off the customers. HD rips off the dealers.
I’m an older rider myself. this will be my 60th year of riding got my mc license at 16. Bought a brand new 2022 St. Glide, have an anniversary 2008 Dyna. One of my bikes probably will be sold this year. They already have a surcharge on the bikes of 1k. If that continues for 2024 it will make it harder for new riders to purchase a new bike. Harley’s latest pitch is 10% down you pay all the taxes, lic. , and doc and setup fees. With excellent credit you have a payment of 390.00 for 96 mos. At over 12% interest. That’s 8years on a bike loan. Old guys like me are done buying new bikes. Younger guys with families in today’s economy can’t afford the cost. There were plenty of bikes at Harley dealers here last summer. Problem was not enough interest. One Harley dealer Heritage closed its doors for good. Most local dealers are owned by big investment firms. One here is still family owned for now! Harley is
loosing its core older customers . The younger ones can’t afford to buy a bike that cost as much as a car!!
The surcharge is gone for 2024 and they have 1.9% for 48 months on 2023 touring bikes.
Spot on, older guys can probably afford it… younger buyers might not be willing to drop that much…
@TRC_WA It will be far more than that. Popular models are elevated in price with any number of gimmicks. Don't be surprised to see that model at 48k.
@TRC_WA Yes, $42+ before fees. Insane money. The 2024 Toyota Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD that I'm about to buy Stickers for $42K. A BMW S1000XR set up four touring with 170 hp is around $25K OTD. No way people like us that ride Japanese or European bikes can justify $50K for cruiser.
I’ve been riding HD for the past 20 years after having ridden Japanese bikes for the previous 20. I can afford the new Harleys but I don’t want to. I’ll probably go European with these prices.
Car business is the same. Gonna get a little tougher on these dealers. Can't say I'm heartbroken.
I bought a Ford Pinto, brand new, in 1972 for $1,995. Not sure what that comes out to in today's prices.
Ya your right = l Road Hds from 1999 through 2017 = 6 New = 2 used low mile bikes = Had a Blast = l avg 16 k a year on milage = Sold them at Around 30 k miles = Very reliable and l did my own Fluid changes = The Times have Changed = Jobs - interest Rates - inflation = lts gona be Tuff Market for Cars & Trucks & Motorcycle = And Alot of other items going forward = lm 65 now and slowed my Pace some = l won't Be buying or taking Out loans for Much anymore & And I really think the Older Gen of gota have A HD has Thindout Bigtime = Times they Really are a Changing 😢
You are the only person I've ever seen that punctuates with equals signs @@paulman9989
100% The markups were shade shade.. karma
@@prawnstar9213you got that right. Riverside Harley, I’m looking at you with your $6500 mark up
Everyone should just ride what they have until the wheels fall off. Stop falling into the trap of always having the latest and greatest from the dealers. It's a losing proposition. I've had my 04 flht for 20 years now. 202,000 miles. It's been everywhere, many times over. Yes, I could have gotten new bikes during that time, didn't feel the need. But that's just me.
This right here! I don’t understand how people trade their bikes in every two years and keep taking that financial hit. It’s a bike, ride it and enjoy it.
Also agree. Got 71k miles now on my 2014 Honda, and I never think of selling it for something else. It's fits me well. I seldom take test rides either, 'cause I don't want ride something much better and feel disappointed with my own.
Word brother
The real issue is the ceo and board. BOYCOTT.
I hate the big screen on the 24 models. Maybe I'm getting old, but I still prefer analogue gauges on a motorcycle.
Food for thought. No analog gauges at all. All electronic screen. What happens if you have an electrical problem, blow a fuse. Your now riding blind. No speedometer, gas gauge, etc. will this affect the bikes safety features also? If you noticed the bike has led built in turn signals, no bulbs to change. Instead you change the entire assembly. First year model changes are a big risk in my opinion. Like when Harley introduced the M8 in 2017 with the oil pump problems. You were left on your own to correct the problem, no Harley recall or warranty coverage. Careful my wind brothers when considering a new 2024!
I agree. I prefer analog gauges.
Yes the led strips are stupid expensive.
I agree, A big distraction when you should be watching the road and taking in the scenery. Nonsense.
Totaly agree
I went to a local Harley dealer. Sooo desperate to sell it was pathetic. They harassed me for a week after, then I blocked the number it was pathetic
No way you could have known.
Yes. They are giving away free pizza, hotdogs, chili, beer, almost weekly here now to get you into the showroom. They look desperate.
Funny, I just went through the same experience with an Italian brand. I test rode a 1 year old used bike and the salesman called me everyday for 2 weeks after I told him I didn't want to buy it or anything else right now.
@@kurtruppenthal9506 My local HD shop doesn't have free cookout s anymore. They have a OCC restaurant that charges $20 for a cheeseburger without cheese. As overpriced as a OCC motorcycle.
I'd rather work at McDonald's . Having to be a salesman and constantly bug people to buy.. forget it. Older bikes are better
Owned Harleys most of my life + many other brands. When I reached my late sixties (I'm 77 now) I could see my two wheeled days were numbered so I went to the Harley Dealer and priced a new Tri-Glide. At the time, it was $38,000 plus taxes and fees. F that. Seeing as riding a trike is not like riding a motorcycle I figured I'd buy a convertible before I'd pay that much for a (any) Harley. I went out and bought a 2 year old Mustang convertible with less than 10k miles for less than half the sticker and saved upwards of 20k. And, we're still in the wind....so to speak. We've traveled coast to coast in the Mustang, I have no regrets. Harley priced themselves beyond what I was willing to pay (cash) for a motorcycle.
I looked at new Harley’s two years ago, wanted a new Fatboy. I went to two different dealers looked at a new bike, and a used new bike.
Both dealers surcharged the floor price so badly I walked out.
5K up charges are BS . The greed of dealers is killing Harley sales. I finally found a dealer without up charges on his bikes . He’s selling them so fast he cannot keep bikes on floor.
This is a dealer problem. Harley corp is not stupid . The need to do like GM , eliminate dealer subsidies. Reward sales numbers. Drop prices of bikes period.
The problem with Harley is that no one is buying, you either have one, had one, or don't want one.
I want one
I had a '12 SG for 8 years. When it came time for a new bike I didn't even consider HD. I bought a Triumph Tiger 900 adventure bike. And I'm 58 years old. Best bike I've ever owned.
I've had three. Always wanted a harley but honestly wasn't very impressed for the money. Bought a Yamaha Tenere this year best all around bike. Awesome performance out the box for under 13k. No offense to Harley owners but today's harley riders are douchebags.
I still have my first and only Harley. A 1995 Springer softail. Its slow but its been a very reliable bike
I had two and couldn’t wait to get rid of my last one. The Harley life is going to a dealership and watching a bunch of old fat people sitting around and other vendors trying to sell the same crap for 50 years. The young people are not into this old people’s overpriced motorcycles.
2022 models are filling the warehouses, too!
2023 Harley Ultra Limited Anniversary for sale, $33,899, before tax and fees. That puts you at almost $40K OTD for a regular Harley. I have a good job; who has this kind of money? Harley makes BMWs seem cheap. I'd love a new Harley but I'd feel like a moron for being the sucker lining up for that...
I sold my '05 Electra Glide. Then I rode a '17 BMW R1200RT with all the spendy add-ons in pristine condition and was SOLD. That bike is amazing. Not going back to Harley. And, you can get very nice Beemers used (lawyer/doctor trade-ins) for very reasonable prices. They are amazing machines....often hundreds of pounds lighter, more hp and torque, superb handling, brakes, ABS, wind protection, etc. I also have a high paying job but based on pure principal, will NOT spend $30k plus for ANY motorcycle.
my 24 SG was 32 all in with 6 yr warranty, pipes , intake , sissy bar , and tuner .... i wouldn't buy a 23 even though they were marked down 5 grand
M friend in CA says used Beemers are quite cheap, Beemer riders want the NEWEST BMWs so anything used is pretty unwanted. Me, I had a K1200LT and hated it although there was nothing wrong about the bike and it never left me stuck on the side of the road. I'll stick to my Triumph now.@@briand4000
My new 2023 BMW R1250 GS Trophy was cheap! 14% off the MSRP sticker in Nov of 2023 at my local dealership. Quality of suspension, and features> No comparision, Advantage, BMW, all the way.
I just bought a 2023 107 Street Glide $25k otd. They can keep that anniversary edition. Now in another month I'm slapping a stage IV 119 on it, and still cheaper than the new 117.
Never never never pay over sticker
Shhhhhhh...
I don't even pay sticker!😂
Not only would I never pay over MSRP . I never even pay MSRP. I have walked out of many dealers over the years just to purchase it at a better price from different dealer.
i always play hard ball, i give them a price and stick to it , they almost always come around to my way of thinking
Harley's were in high demand during the 90's. If you ordered, say, a black one, you may end up with a white one. If you refused, you may have to wait another 6 months for the black to come in. Then, the bike was usually full of extras that you didn't order. Take it or leave it is what they said. I think that's what soured people on Harley ownership.
Interest rates… two years ago I could get a 3.5-4.5% interest rate with a 760 credit score. Today in closer to 10% interest. I’m not purchasing anything until I can get under 5% again
You can get rates under 5% with your own banks/credit unions.
My dealers here in Houston ALL said the interest rates with the banks they partner with were 7% and up in december 2022 when I was looking.
1 phone call later to my personal bank (usaa) I had 3-5% rates offered with 12-72month options/rates in-between.
Showed the finance guy I got a check for him if he wants to play ball.
I even let him run my credit and the best he could do/find at the time was 7% with my measly 650+ credit score.
Mind you I have a mortgage, and a credit card that I always max every month(10k) and pay off every month and messed up my credit utilization but the banks can see that. Scores NOT everything but it definitely is a starting point.
Then they wheel and deal you with numbers like if you take their financing they'll make money on the backend and knock off dealer add-ons.
OR vice versa you use OSF(outside finance meaning your bank) and pay their msrp plus + and more +.
I ultimately walked away because I dislike how Harley Dealers finance guys are.
Sales process is atrocious, no sales staff are allowed to give you an OTD. Only the finance guy will talk numbers.
I'm a simple guy, give me your best offer OTD whether it's 30k 100k 500k and if it's a fair deal and not some ridiculously inflated price I'll buy it. The financing will work itself out and the numbers will add up if there isn't any fuckassery going on.
I know some folks can't get financing for whatever reason, but I don't even window shop unless I have a check or cash in hand. They lost a sale that day.
To be fair on us millennial some of us don't really care for Harleys as me personally I see them as old man bikes. Coming from Supersport bikes and dirt bikes, only reason I'm considering a bagger whether Indian or Harley is to relax/chill on my commute to work instead of riding triple digits everywhere I go.
And those days are gone, man under 5%
@@stevenlaspes5823 IKR? My buddy with a 760 score was offered a 12% rate last Saturday…. The rates are still going up
Good luck anytime soon yo
yeah, 6.5% for good credit rating, makes it hard to finance with those terms
This won't be an issue for me, I'm still digging with a shovel. 😉
still riding my 76 fl
I am on a 02 FLSTF.....
Fat boy now in UK
£24,000
"Digging on Shovel" best comment here SYLO
Harley has priced me out of the mkt. I just dropped 2k on my 09 Ultra Classic with 50K miles. That will get me at least two more years with minimum expense.
That bike will last a lifetime if you treat it right.
50k miles is nothing. Even my dicey Ducati is at 35k and rides like it's brand new.
It won’t be a Harley, but a Goldwing will get you 300k-500k reliable miles with routine maintenance and no oil leaks. I almost bought a new ultra touring till I saw that roadside tinkering and oil leaks were common. I’m no roadside or shade tree mechanic. I break machines! Lol!
I put 40K trouble free miles on a 09 Ultra Classic. I just traded it and miss it. I think if I had it to do over I'd spend a few thousand rebuilding the forks and a few maint items and keep it. @@martinharford774
Wise investment!
I always wondered why my local Harley dealer just has "contact for details" under price for literally every single bike that isn't used. I didn't even bother contacting them because to me that meant everything would be more expensive than you want to see. I'll never know now if the Softails were actually a reasonable price or not.
I am the same way. just show me the price or I'm out
@@Sonic_Boomer_ me too.
There is no law that a MSRP sticker must be displayed, as there is with cars and light trucks. No Japanese, Indian, BMW or harley dealer I've been to put an MSRP sticker on their bikes. In 10 seconds you can see the MSRP of any bike on the internet so a sticker price isn't even needed. Take your smart phone with you when looking for price.
@@motorman857 I get that, but from my experience my Indian dealer posted prices and discounts online and on their bikes. The local Japanese bike shop did the same as well. Sounds like it's just dealer's choice. Hope you're doing well Jerry.
@@RossGoneRogue What I said was H.D., doesn't allow dealers to advertise under MSRP prices. Other makes have their own rules.
They can fix the problem by firing JZ. His lack of forethought put HD dealerships in this situation. In my humble opinion, the entire BOD needs to go. You have got to start producing bikes that working people can afford. How many bikes are the wealthiest people buying? It’s all about the rich people at HD and to hell with the blue collar folks.
Thank you motor man. I've been a dedicated rider since 1976, of course like most other people when I was younger it was Nifty Fifty's Honda dreams 305 Scramblers but when I was in the market for a new road bike I had my heart set on a Harley, I went to the dealership and was treated like s***, like they were doing me a favor, so I walked out and went straight to the Kawasaki dealership ,been riding rice burners ever since, no regrets, its the Harley attitude that really turns me off.
exactly except i went to the Yamaha dealer, lol
I rolled a 1967 Honda 305 off the showroom floor. That bike was reliable and simple to ride. I changed to Sportsters for the next 60 years with a few 74 pan heads in there.
When I rode out of the dealership on my new Sportster I was hooked for life. I upgraded each Sportster to Stage One, basically let a 1200 breathe and coax as much throttle response from those reliable EVO motors. I also have a CBR 600 and like it for its smoothness but the Harley Davidson torque is sorely missed. Thank You for the "Remember When"
I won't busy anything from a stealership they'll rob you blind their service work is lousy and over priced also I ride a 89Harley( Springer set up as Heritage Springer The stealerships won't even mount new tires on it Any work I cant do I go to an independent shop to get done this also goes for parts. I need. for repairs I do myself.
I have had the Same Problem with Service ! So I'm just buying the necessary tool's and doing it Myself !
Been riding for 52 years. Have had around 20 bikes of which none have been Harleys. Never wanted one because of reliability and handling issues. My kid loves them though and it's something I just don't understand. I can buy a nice lexus car for the same price as a CVO. Simply to much moola for the product.
Best THING to do...don t buy...WAIT
you will still pay in the end if you're looking, no matter when.
Tomorrow is not guaranteed! Just a thought.
Don’t save up for a rainy day on a rainy day. You’ll loose the deal. If one doesn’t spend more money on a rainy day they will take it away to pay bills and you will be COVERED 😢
You are. It alone
@@markmaese1599 with that mindset start blowing your 401K and retirement accounts today. You never know...What a thought....
UK here, during the pandemic a dealer tried to buy my Sport glide off me, which I would never sell, its one of the last years European Harley's were made in America, as Triumph did, Harley decided to make our bikes in Thailand, nothing against workers in Thailand, I would never buy a Triumph not made in the UK and the same with Harley Davidson's if its not assembled in America then it can stay in Thailand, I probably won't buy another Harley Davidson again, or at least until they change their minds and ship them from the US again.
I've seen a fair few Harley dealers close down lately, hopefully Harley will get the message and start sending US assembled Harley to the UK again.
They’re way too expensive for the average working American. There already many low miles used bikes on the market that aren’t selling. A new Harley is a luxury item in Kansas. Insurance and property taxes alone will break you. Not to mention the expensive maintenance and repair items. And….you can’t even work on the new ones like we could on the older models. Good luck Harley. You gonna need it.
also loss of decades old dealerships Hays Salina Juntion City Dodge city
One of our Indian dealers usually has 10-15 HD's in real nice condition.
Woke harley should go broke
And closing the KC factory to move it overseas, HD used to mean Made in USA to the world. I'm not loyal to the nonloyal.
Working people meaning most of us. That leaves us out
I’ve been riding for almost 40 years, and have owned a few used H-D's. I’ve dreamed about owning a brand new Harley for around 20 years, and at age 55 with my home and everything else paid off, I finally had enough disposable income. I told myself at the end of last year if not now, when? I got a ’23 Heritage year end closeout in December at a great price, and it’s exactly the bike I wanted. I’ve worked my arse off my whole life and for me getting a new Harley was a treat, not something I ever demanded or absolutely needed to have.
And now it's garbage... Lol. My neighbor is selling his 2023 for $21k with 50 original miles on it. I think he's upside down on it and needs the $$$.
@@243wayne1it might be garbage if one has to sell it as your neighbor did. That's off the lot depreciation for most vehicles. Like most of the bikes I've bought over the years, I plan on keeping my Heritage for the long haul. All toys/hobbies are basically a big waste of money, but if they bring happiness and enjoyment and you can afford them, the money doesn't matter that much.
I feel sorry for your stupidity
I absolutely agree. I bought a 2018 Heritage Classic and love it!Grew up on jap bikes in the 70's but finally got my HD!
You still paid too much for your bike
Interesting times ahead, lots of dealers closing down unfortunately.
We have had a whole bunch of dealer's close down here in the UK ! ☹️
there were too many dealerships when the mid 2000s came around and OCC and jesse james and sons of anarchy made every middle aged man into a wanna be hells angel ...
Yes, 2 went bust up north and Norwich is going I have heard that two more are closing. The bikes just cost too much in todays economic times.
Time for HD to fade away I doubt very much I'll ever buy a new Harley especially here in Florida where most dealerships are charging 3-4 thousand dollars over MSRP then it's the talk to a salesman then the assistant sales manager then the sales manager just to get a price. I notice when I walk into these dealerships there's not tag on the bikes I have to ask how much for this one? How much for that one? Other dealers the prices are right on the bike no games no BS. Don't want to see a government bail out this time either. After 35+ years of riding HD's I'm over this sh*t show.
My local dealer was purchased by the same owners that own Orlando. Same deal, no prices on bikes. Had to talk to like 3 people to find out they’re charging over MSRP. I walked out, went to a dealer 20 miles away and paid less than MSRP.
I spent my money on an Indian last month. General opinion seems to be that Indian is a smoother, nicer ride. The lifetime powertrain warranty at my dealer speaks volumes to how confident they are in the motor and trans. Depreciate less than Harley’s too… and much less douchy. 😂
I think it was in the 90s when you could go in a Harley dealership and they had no bikes, because the demand was so high.
But they had lots of clothes.
I remember those days. They may have had a handful of sportsters on the floor but that's all.
Late 90s for sure, there were waiting lists of 2-3 yrs on some bikes
@brandonjohnson191 mid nineties. Lived through it, and bought a 83 Dina Wide Glide shovel for $9,000 in 1995. It has went up in value ever since.
Evo was the best motor they ever made
@@daveminer9217 I bought, and still have . a 93 Anniversary Dyna Wide Glide new for $13,200
The leftover anniversary models are beautiful. They were priced too high last year though. Dealers marked them way up. Now the anniversary paint sets don’t mean much. I’ve thought about one but my current bike is “ just how I want it”. It took me about 3 years and 3-5k to get it exactly right. I don’t want to start over at that. Even the anniversary motorclothes were way too high priced. Lots of leftovers at less than half price now. Overplayed the 120th in my opinion. Still my favorite paint scheme and logos in a long time though. Stocking up on the leftover motorclothes!
Exactly. I mean seriously how can they justify like $50g on an Ultra with some flashy paint?
The problem with the anniversary stuff was in 2018 the bikes came out in August of 2017 the anniversary party was the end of August 2018, last year the anniversary bikes came out Jan 25th of 2023 and the anniversary party was July 10th 2023, so only 5 months to hype it up and sell.. vs over a year for the 115th stuff… poor planning and execution!!
@@invisible468 Learned my lesson back in 2003 with the 100th Anniversary bikes. When it came time to sell my 100th Anniversary Electra Glide it didn't add an extra dime to the resale. Won't ever make that mistake again.
Let me share with ya....they are all anniversary models paint or no paint.
Cant jack up 24 prices. Will have to discount 23s
I'll agree. 2023 sales were down 17%. It's hard to tell what can happen this spring, but only the desperate will pay $5,000 over MSRP to get a 2024 model. I'd laugh and walk out the door.
i bought my 24 for sticker plus a steep discount on accessories and the extended warranty
zero dealer fees , just tax and title with slip ons , intake, sissy bar and tuner and 6yr warranty for $32,218. ... that's with the extra cost of pearl white and black trim $875 and $1300 respectively
Again, its the Corp mentality. Their business model and etiquette is way off the scale too agressive and dictatorial. People like the human touch of the Ma & Pa stores. The Corp needs to chill: know your base - keep the faith - rely on the unique style the brand is known for - stop copying your competition - treat and serve the customer right - bring back the classic Sportster. It aint rocket science.
then i'll read other comments whining about no bronx model this year and how they aren't changing with the times enough .... everyone thinks they have the answer
People that say they want a bronx model would buy a japanese bike first it would be at least a couple grand if not three four grand less they are delusional to think Harley could make something on par.@@Mouthy_Trucker
Now people are claiming Harleys aren't selling because Harley has gone "woke" - whatever that means. The fact is, Harley sales have been declining every year for the past DECADE. Maybe Harley has WOKEn up to the fact they can't continue making a business out of selling expensive bikes to us old guys having one foot in the grave.
Here's another problem too. Many of us loyal Harley riders are 60+ now. The 30+ are not into riding or if they are they don't like the bager bikes. Harley isn't gonna be selling high end bikes and is older guys are gonna be selling our bikes. The market is gonna be flooded with Harleys new and used. In about 5 years you won't be able to give your old bike away.
i already can't give mine away
Still riding my huge Victory XC tour till the wheels fall off. Criminally underrated bikes. Didn’t realize how good we had it back then. Polaris really frigged up by killing it. Indian or Harley? Sorry Harley.
Those were great bikes
They ARE great bikes.@@sll-tt6bj
Victory were great bikes, and fabulous value for money in my books. I won't be getting of mine any time soon! Cheers from Oz. 👍🇦🇺
You’ll love your new Indian.
why buy an indian after what polaris did to victory riders
Eye opening video! 2023 and earlier resale values about to get wacked with a ugly stick.
They're concussed!
There is a dealer in Riverside, CA asking $10,800 over MSRP for 23 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat color. OTD price$62,314.49. Pays to shop around.
Well, in California people like paying more for eveything. If they didn't like it, why would they continue to vote for higher prices?
@@motorman857 I have yet to meet those people but I’m sure they are out there. I tend to think the city dwellers vote blue hoping for a kickback that never comes. The country folks have a different outlook on the “honest graft” that goes on in Sacramento. Your call to shop around is spot on in any state. Shop that trade-in as well if you need a 24. I’ll keep my 08 CVO Road King and laughing all the way to the bank. It’s not what you make, it’s what you keep. Cheers
That’s insane.
@@stefanjoseph2605 What's insane?
Dealers do that also so they can "give" you more for your trade.
Harley needs to change their market strategy and fast! I met Bill and Karen Davidson in MA. by chance they were on a run from Wisconsin? They were so down to earth and accommodating all requests for Pics and chatted with whomever wanted to chat. Bill and Karen are people like us. THey were extremely humble from my encounter with them. My Suggestion is use the old supplu and demand rule, simple. Get the numbers down. Peace!
My local dealership is selling the 2024s for msrp with no markups and advertising 3 to 4k off the 2023s in the showroom. They put signs on the bikes windshields with the reduced price. They will probably have to discount them a few more grand to get them to move.
I went to the Harley web-site and did a comparable build for a 2024 Ultra Limited when compared to my 2017 Ultra Limited (with the stage 3 and another 4 grand in upgrades)sitting in my garage.
2024 was over $44,000.00 BEFORE dealer mark up, tax,title,license,and delivery. We'll call it $51,000.00 out the door. That's twice what I have in all 3 of my used and 100% road worthy and nice to look at Harley's.2017 Ultra Limited,2001 tricked out Softail, and 2003 Dyna Lowrider.
Insane !!!!!!!! New Goldwing Tour, airbag, out the door is 31,500.
@@alp3781and it’s a Honda,you could run a Dakar rally on it for 5 years straight,not change the oil and squirt all your used beers in the gas tank and it wouldn’t skip a single beat.
@@shockashoota That is why I own one. No dispute. Honda is doing something right for 50 years now with the wings. I just ride. I never ride to any dealer, just for food on an open demo days...LOL.
@@alp3781 If you want a bone fide tourer, how do you walk past the Honda dealership? You don't.
The Harley cult is about over
My dealer has the CVO Roadglide ST for a 7k markup. I didn't inquire on the other 24 SGs and RGs. They are packed with 23s, including 3 Anniversary and 3 Fast Johnny models.
I went to a Harley dealer the other day to check out the 24 models and they were definitely discounting the 23s even the 23 CVO which is the same as the 24 style wise. If you are looking to get a CVO the 23 model is going to be a good deal.
They'd have to buy the bike and then give it to me, for me to ride Harley.
@@thelakeman5207Girly Boy.....just ride your Honda or polaris and be happy
@@thelakeman5207I'm nowhere near a fan boy and you sound stupid.
@@johnswanson3741 nothing more manly than getting cucked by a harley dealer
@@thelakeman5207sticker price is just forplay. They really rape you with repair costs and maintenance
Im 27 and my dream bike is the 2024 Road Glide but I cant afford a $26,000 bike with a $350 a month payment when I can go get a street bike like the GSX8R which is a decent mid range bike for $8500 at my local powersports dealer...
Even better, you can get a new Honda Navi for $1,850 bucks. Apples and Oranges. Look it up.
Get the Suzuki, my buddy has one... fantastic bike. Not sure what the hell he is talking about with his reply lol
@@motorman857a Honda Navi is a scooter made to look like a motorcycle. Its not apples and oranges, its apples and rotting apples
@@robbieracer3294 What I'm talking about is comparing a sport bike to a full dresser is like comparing apples to oranges. If cheap is your main concern, get a Navi. If touring in comfort is your main concern, anyone with a brain isn't torn between a heavyweight touring bike and a middle weight sport bike.
350 buck payment? Lol you must be putting 15k down
I bought a leftover 23 Vaquero for 17k OTD. I’m happy and that’s what matters.
Sold my Harley. Bought a Honda Goldwing 2023. What a BIKE!
I bought a 2024 breakout oil cooler leaking 5 weeks not fixed yet I won't buy Harley again
Those bikes look like absolute beasts!!
Amen to that!
I'll be looking for an early 5th generation GW, '02 - '08, next spring.
Enjoy your wing.
My husband looked for and found a ‘96 electra glide with 13,000 miles on it , all original. We paid top dollar for it but we couldn’t justify a 50k new Harley. He specifically wanted an evo powered Harley as we had a ‘95 Heritage years ago.
Enjoy the vibrations
I've had a fair few Evo's whilst they were great in their day, the M8 runs circles around them, and as reliable as they used to be they are old enough now to warrant extra attention to the upkeep. In my eyes having an Evo now because back in the day they were reliable is a false economy and the power of the M8's is in a different league to those older EVO's
@@HarleyFirestormThe paper base gasket were ,and still are the biggest problem with an EVO
@@ranchodeluxe1 most motorcycles will last a life time if you look after them. Just because back in the day they were reliable compared to AMF bikes, doesn't mean they are reliable now, even 10 years ago I had Evos and I was always without exception working on them to keep them on the road, I love working on bikes, but I just don't want to keep fixing them all the time, or breaking down by the side of the road which was a thing with sportsters.
I've just picked up a brand new zero miles 2023 model Sportster S.
I got them to put Cobra cans and a rear light & plate relocate, and with the huge dealer contributions at the moment it was actually a fair bit cheaper than a similarly upgraded used one.
Just bought a 24 for 4k less then msrp. Just saying Harley will work deals to move the 24 cause a lot of people don't like them. I do love my 23 tho got that for less then msrp too. Both are Road glided
One dealer near me marks up every single bike and then they say ‘we will negotiate’, stupid, just sell at reasonable price!
Well, don't buy from that dealer. I have a Honda dealer near me who rarely moves off MSRP. He sells maybe 2 street bikes a month.
That’s why I bought a Tesla when I needed a new car. The direct purchase was the most stress free vehicle purchase I have ever made. Harley would do better to replicate that business model.
@@jimbeam4111 If you go into any Harley dealer or car dealer and say you'll pay whatever the sticker price is and agree to whatever they offer you for your trade, I guarantee the paper work will start flying and you won't have to haggle at all. Just like what Tesla does.
When I asked my nephew who is in college, if he was interested in motorcycling, his answer was a quick no. He also told me that his friends couldn’t care less about motorcycles. It seems that the younger generations are not into motorcycles like we were.
They're not into much of what the older generations liked. Their world is the digital world.
@gregs128yeah i was never into riding horses😂
No, they're too busy protesting with strangely colored hair.
They can’t add markups to the MSRP. The high interest rates are already squashing sales. If the 23’s haven’t sold, the only out is heavy discounts.
This makes me love my 2011 Road King Classic even more. Yall sort this out while I shine and ride The King!!
I just bought 2, 2007 cvo Road Kings in Razor Red. One for my brother & one for me. $5500 and $8000. These bikes were $28k new. Mine had a fresh 110cui. Both have replaced leather bags with extended bags painted to match! If love a new roadglide but I'm lovin' this 110 for 8k. I pit a solo saddle on it engine and saddlebag guards for $280 on a bike that looks like new!
@@mcpmankb Ride that thang!
Good review Jerry. The dealers have a major problem now with supply and demand!! Good luck to the dealers that think they can charge over MSRP for the '24's, lol!! Hopefully, nobody is stupid enough to buy a '24 over MSRP!! Dealers here in New England are loaded with both '23's and '24's!! Being a repeat customer for 35 years, I feel no mercy for the dealers or the factory!! The factory did this to themselves with their over pricing, very poor R&D, particularly on the new fairings and 12" all digital screen, stupid marketing schemes and delayed rollouts!! I would wait, and never ever pay over MSRP for any bike!!
The dealerships in the UK are suffering two have gone under, and one is closing with rumours of another two following. The bikes are just not affordable for most people with what is going on with the world.
I would buy used or get something interesting like a Motoguzzi or Triumph. My 2013 ElectraGlide Classic is well maintained and running just fine, and has been all over the country. I think I'll just keep it running for the next few years.
My HD friends snob me because I purchased a Boulevard m109r, which has same low end torque as 117 but extra power. However after loosing oil pressure during a trip due to poor gear box sceals and spending thousands to fix it, they told me I did well to buy Japanese. Japanese V-Twins are NOT money pit. But hey, if I was a millionair, I would have several HD in my garage. I would have a Fat Boy or Breakout, a Road King and a Fat Bob... and an employee to bring them to the dealer for maintenance.
M109R is a great bike with awesome looks, good pick. 👍
i had an m109r , sold it 2 years ago and just bought a 24 street glide , they don't make a windshield that doesn't look stupid on the zuki , plus no cruise , no radio no abs , only 5 gears and a transmission made of glass ... yes they are quick but also HEAVY ! my glide has bags (obviously) a faring, all the tech etc etc and still weighs like 150-200 pounds less . i'll bet with the new 117 and tuned and intake and slip ons its gonna be pretty close to the same power/weight ratio as my zuki was
@@Mouthy_Trucker can’t say otherwise. The M109 is a bike made in 2010, that’s 14 years old tech. I sold mine in 2014 (i had a 2012 model) for something newer and i wouldn’t go back to old tech. That being said, that bike was not meant to have a windshield like a big American cruiser, you had a power bike that was made for the city or suburbs. But I’ve ridden mine much more then that, but i knew what i was getting with the bike. You can’t get a bike and try to transform it for something else. 🤷♂️ But for the time period (2010’s) a great looking bike with a great price. Never had any problems with it (in 2 years and 10 000 miles). And having a 109 cubic inches when my Harley Co-riders were spending $ for kits to upgrade their power, and never even coming close to to my bike, was funny and a lesson for some Harley Church goers. 😄
@@pierrepatry9733 I'm a tech engineer and I know by experience too much hi tech equals troubles. At the end of a work day, I don't want to use or even see any hi tech. I'd rather go fishing or ride my gadget free M109R. I was honestly VERY attracted by some Indians and HD. But i'm the anti theses of the market they are aiming at right now. Gosh, you can't even get a bobber without a stupid computer taking minutes to boot. Now if you think M109R is old tech, well you're in for a surprise. The entire Millwakee 8 series is an attempt to copy the M109R that is 8 valves and 4 spark plugs on a V-Twin EXAXTLY like the M109R. The flimsy gearbox was resolved 12 years ago. When I drove a Honda CM450 in 1988, I couldn't wait to move to a big block with 5 gears. As much as I love manual shifter, I prefer a bike that performs great on 5 gears. For me, 6 gears is not synonymous with relax cruising. Again, if I was rich like an HD rider I would definitely own at least one of them, but I'm just a software engineer supporting a family so I can't afford the maintenance of an HD or Indian ... bummer. I would still keep my M109R though.
@@notyrbsns9321 thank you, that’s a very interesting viewpoint and some valued informations. My friend, i think you would (dislike/hate) my actual bike. A 2020 Triumph Rocket 3R. Now that’s a computer, that comes with a bike lol! But hey, i do have fun with it and smile gettin on it and still be smiling at the end of the day. I guess that’s the important thing. Was nice exchanging with you. Stay safe while riding, but mostly: congratulations for having a family and taking care of your kids. That’s the important thing. 👍
Personally, and I'm like this with most things, if I were in the market for a motorcycle, I'd get a 2023 right at this moment. Way too many major changes in 2024 that I'd like to give it a year for them to work out any problems
I would wait on buying a ‘23: too many still unsold at dealerships…prices will fall even more.
i bought a 24 .... with the extended warranty
Yes Jerry my dealer here in Tallahassee has several left over cvos in that silver color. Plus they have a ton of left over 23's. I did notice they were discounting the 22 and 23 models pretty good. We have some 24 bikes in, not many but a few. Went from no new bikes in 2020-2021 to too many now! Interest rates are high and people dont have free money any more. I think its going to be hard on the dealership,just like alot of car lots now.
Yeah, and the difference between car and motorcycle dealers....people actually need cars, they do NOT need motorcycles. Good luck to the MoCo, they're gonna need it.
@@briand4000 speak for yourself brother. I need two wheels
🤷🏻♂️ idk , i walked in and wrote a check for mine ... and the check was even good 😂😂
@@Mouthy_Trucker don't think I have seen a cheque here for years.
I hear ya man, just keepin' it real. I, too can't imagine being without my motorcycles. I rode today with temps in the 20's (F). Screw winter!@@harryhowell5644
I'm happy with my 2012 Heritage. The 103 has a 2 into 1 pipe and with a tune does fine.
2024 Honda Goldwing fully loaded for 35,000 and it comes with REVERSE which Harley still can’t figure out. My next bike will be a Goldwing I’m over Harleys constant gouging.
Only 35K FOR A Goldwing? That's practically free. 🤣🤣
When I saw the title of the video, the absolute first thing that popped into my mind was the abundance of 2023 left over. Unfortunately Jerry, I believe you are right. They will not discount the 23 but will inflate the 24. Sad situation all around.
That just means they won't sell either at a reasonable price.......
According to the comment section on this video, people are getting 5K under MSRP on 2023 bikes.
i paid sticker for my 24 plus free 6 year warranty, but the 23s were 5000 under sticker
@@Mouthy_Trucker good to know they are doing something to incentivize
@@ab62051 sounds like Harley to me 😂
So my 2021 Road Glide Special has depreciated $15,000 in three years. Damn.
There’s so many electronic changes on the 24s makes me a lil nervous
All who purchase a new 24 touring model with the electronic dash will be test dummies for the motor company.
Give it a few years to work the bugs out.
When it comes to harleys and electronics, I don't trust it. Harleys electronics are dinosaurs
@@albertcruz3232 What part of a 12.3 in TFT screen is dinosaur like? What part of 3 different models of USABLE electric bikes are dinosaur like? As a motorcycle mechanic that works on several brands, I have no idea what you are talking about? Which brand is so much farther ahead?
@davidhill850 well, for starters, their grounding points tend to corrode prematurely. They didnt even bother with any covers for the starter or the ecu grounding. The alternators barely put out enough power to keep the bike alive and three, harleys just plain suck. Oh and the "dreaded" harley weak start. For a bike that's been a premium brand for decades, you'd expect more. If that's the basic wiring, I can't imagine how crappy the infotainment system is. And I get you had to let the world know you work on motorcycles but I wasn't comparing it to other bikes. Harley is in a category of its own and should do better
My 2012 FLHXSE3 CVO Street Glide has everything I want or need. All analog gauges, NO screen, lowers with speakers in them for the 400w audio system, an integrated Apple iPod Nano in one of the custom extended bags, speakers in the bag tops (the first Harley that ever came with them), Chubby handlebars, lots of mods/upgrades to the 110 CI engine for better performance and reliability, SE-259e high duration cams, Drago's Dragula 2-into-1 race pipe with a ghost pipe to keep the looks with the extended bags, a giant Big Sucker intake, a custom TTS tune, a Garmin GPS mounted up high on the left side so I don't have to look down at a screen, a custom Corbin seat with orange/silver stitched flames, a color-matched removable Tour Pak with a matching Corbin backrest with the same flames, Rumble passenger footboards that match the rider footboards ($$$), custom curved lighted license plate holder that replaced the ugly stock unit, and on and ON. It's got the most beautiful paint job that ever came out of the MoCo in my opinion... bright orange ("Hot Citrus") on top and dark metallic brown ("Antique Gunstock") on the bottom, with orange ghost flames on all painted parts.
It's really a beautiful bike, if I do say so myself, and I've received many compliments on it. It's also SCARY fast... I have never, nor will I ever, let anyone ride it other than the absolute master who did the meticulous TTS tune. It's just too freakin' powerful for the average bagger rider to handle.
I am the original owner, having bought it new for $32,600 cash in August 2011 when it had just arrived at the dealer. At the time, it was the only bike like it in my whole state. Nothing I have seen since has enticed me to trade it for a newer bike. Every CVO SG since has had an increasingly plainer paint job that doesn't look anywhere NEAR as good as my bike. I will ride it until the wheels fall off, then get new wheels for it. If I ever sold it or traded it, I would only get a small fraction of what I have invested in it anyway - so it would take something absolutely incredible to entice me to do that, and I just don't see that ever happening. My bike is just perfect for me!
🧡🤠🧡
While watching your video, I went to a Harley Davidson site that I hopefully will be purchasing a motorcycle from. And you are correct. I saw 2023 CVO’s right under $30,000. Usually, they are within the $30,000 range and they stay there a while. I hope I get lucky and can get a 23 for a really good price. Thanks for the tips and you have great information on your website.
Bring back the old school Deluxe
PLEASE!!!
One of their best bikes in the last 20 years!!
Agree. I bought a 08 deluxe
@@peterbergeris6510 bought mine in 09
I had an ‘09. GREAT bike.
I think that my local dealer will jack up the prices on the 2024's and try to demand MSRP on any leftover 2023's. I also think they'll have a hard time moving those 2023's. Makes me happy that I bought a 2022 SG when dealers were scrambling to get used bikes and gave the huge trade in allowances that you were talking about. At my age it'll likely be my last new bike.
Issues - ugly new fairings, agree there are a lot of 23s in our area, prices could be better, need a real sportster back, drop the Nightster, add the Bronx and a full fairing sport bike.
I walked into a dealer last week to get a part. The sales guy walked up to me and the first thing he said was, "We're making great deals on these '23 models." You're right, Motoman. I'm good with my 2019 for a long time, but if I had the funds, I'd add a '23 to my fleet. I like the changes away from the droopy saddlebags and big front wheels.
I don’t have to worry about the price of the 2023 and 2020 Ford Harley because I bought a 2007 Dyna Lowrider for 7500 and I’m super happy with it and it came with the bags and back rest of the luggage rack and I’m having a ball with it
Thank you for your inside on the Harley Davidson market, very Informative. Now I know why my 2022 Sreet Glide is worth less than half of what I paid for it , not used to that. Definitely will have to wait this one out.
On Saturday, the Dealer by me had 23 models $3-$5K off MSRP. They are willing to negotiate to get rid of the 23's. Same with used bikes. I agree the 23 CVO colors didn't do it for me, nice, but not me. The new 24 CVO RG in Legendary Orange is really nice. I just bought one.
I said the same thing about the colors of the 2023 CVO. I like the 2024 colors
I'm telling you, this legendary orange color in person is stunning! Can't wait to break it in. Only 1 mile on it, but it's cold in WI.@@chumps7974
I have driven Harleys since 1969 .unfortunately the quality was never great but the newer ones are really bad . My last Harley 2010 SG transmission went out at 48000 miles . You would think building bikes for over a 100 years they could do better than that .my next bike will be Japanese
I never go to a Harley shop. They are incredibly expensive and are forever trying to upscale you stuff that you don’t need or want. I always feel like I’ve been taken advantage of when I’m forced to deal with them.
How do they force you to deal with them?
@@motorman857 I guess force is the wrong word. Hard sell would probably be a better term.
Following the same situation as the new/ used car truck market. Exact same reason
Guy i work with just bought a 23' Road Glide w tour pack and 14" bars $36k they offered him $2500 for his 99' Road King . He kept it.
I've been looking at 2019 and 2020 Street Glides (I'm in love with the scorched orange color, available for only those 2 years) and dealerships have them anywhere from $22,000 to up over $30,000. Who the hell in their right mind would pay over $30,000 for bikes that are 4-5 years old? It's just insanity
My last 3 New Harley's were crap that spent more time in the shop for repairs than on the road(Roadglides)..Seriously they have major engine problems approximately every 2500 miles..And they are still pushing them out the door with the same problems . I left Harley in 2011 and now ride cross country with no repairs. I do my own oil and filter changes with oil /filters from wally world or the local auto parts store. I run regular gas with way more better performance ,and even have walking reverse, I should have made the change years ago..I would have saved a boat load of cash..
Thanks for the info Jerry....
But the 2025 machines usually get released in August, no?
No, January.
I bought a 24 SG at Boswell’s (Nashville) at MSRP. It came in on a Friday and I bought it Saturday morning. It was the 1st one they sold!
Was the dealer easygoing for the msrp or did you have to drag out negotiations?
Was it the gray one they had on the sales floor?
The sales GM straight up stated that they are a MSRP dealer
I purchased the Black/ Chrome that was located in the back building near the loading dock
@@russmuzikVery nice. That's the best color combo in my opinion. Congrats on the new bike!
Boswell Harley Davidson in TN is selling the 2023 @ great discounted prices.
they all are
You know I tried to tell folks dealers do this every year @ this time and they don't believe me@@Mouthy_Trucker
A very good and really interesting video. Don't know what Harley will do, but waiting them out may be the best course of action.
It will be on the dealers to do something. Idk if harley will do anything.
Well, I'm 8 months down the road and I don't know. I'm just starting out. I will take my time and get what I want. Nice post, this helped me a lot.
Just bought a new 24 streetglide. the only extra I bought was the windshield, $29,700 out the door. Its my first HD and Im 53. Owned Honda, Suzukis, and Yamahas all my life. Love the new Honda Goldwings and wish i would have considered more carefully before buying. But, I will say the new 117 is really nice and so far Im loving the bike. Next road trip already planned. I also own a 2007 750cc Honda Shadow, which is great for buzzing around town. But if you are looking for a great touring bike, make sure you give the new Goldwing a closer look. They also come with an automatic transmission which I dont think HD offers.
Goldwing and Road Glide owner here.
Two completely different MCs, one is a sofa on top of a big sewing machine (the Wing 🪽). The other is a muscle car that can be modified and customized to the Nth degree, and I feel different on the RG than I do on my Wing 🪽
Like the wing 🪽 love the Road Glide
My useless two cents 😂☮️🤙🏼👊🏻✊
I always wanted a Goldwing. Loved the style of them. I'm a smaller guy and the sheer size of it would give me pause. They have a v6 engine on them? Plus you can probably pull a small trailer with it? Both great bikes in my opinion.
Unfortunately , I bought a new RGS in November, not knowing that these *big changes* were coming to the lineup.
same here, I also bought RGST four months ago.
Always buy after the new models come out. You have the choice of a discounted older model or the new model.
@@joshrandall5297 👍
@@m1907_I knew since the announcement of the st models that Harley was going make a big change. Learned that lesson from the original dyna lowrider s and the introduction of the softail m8 lineup
The ‘24’s look so good and have such great improvements, the ‘23’s are going to be hard to sale. I like the changes! But, if I were looking for a deal, I might consider a ‘23. It just depends on where a person is financially.
i was lucky enough to have just sold a property in had inherited so i wanted the 24 and paid cash was able to get the extended warranty thrown in for sticker price plus 15% off anything in the store for the next year
The 2023 baggers are discounted 5,000.00 in my area. And used bikes have tanked.
May I ask what dealer??
@@carlbruhn1772 You may not sir... Lol.
One of the biggest mistakes was propably Lifwire.
I’ve read a few articles on the electronics malfunctioning on the new Road Glides
Rest assured that my 24 is just fine.
Bought a 23 Road glide standard on Black Friday. Not a fan of the new style.
the improvements made on the new 2024 model make the 2023 look like a dinosaur. when you’re talking msrp It’s already hard to spend $27-31k on 2 wheels, but good luck selling last years model for that. I didn’t like the 2024 digital display until I was at a dealership the other day getting parts. I Still don’t like the turn signal in the fairing or the rear bag being shorter and bulged out.
I see a major problem with the 2024's: all of the electronic whiz bang B.S. WILL FAIL and dollars to donuts they will not be parts supported after 10 years(if the owner is lucky). Think a moment: lets put high tech on something that will be exposed to the harsh elements,excessive heat and vibration,and extremes in temperature as the norm (start a desert ride in the 40's and be at 110 8 hours later). What could go wrong? Back to I like my old and repairable limited tech stuff.
All brand new models rely on the consumer to shake out the bugs. All electronic dash is a great idea when riding in the rain for hours. Being its a complete module the cost of replacement will be astronomical. Being a test dummy isn't for me.
@@carlbruhn1772 agree
Amen Brother!/Thought I was the only one who thinks all this advanced "tech" ia wasteful overkill and distorts the riding experience. I'll keep my 2019 SGS with old school Boom GTS, and Stage 2 engine upgrade.
@@stevenmckenzie8906 I was out on a ride on my 2017 Ultra and had to get out the freaking owners manual to figure out one of the optional controls. Mad at myself and mad at Harley for too many doo-dads. Years ago I had a 2004 Ultra I bought new. Even loaded up it was simpler than my 2017.
They are having software issues now
Your video was prophetic! My local dealer is marking their 2024 Road Glides up by nearly 15 percent over MSRP. Can't imagine anyone is actually paying that, but who knows!
A dealer drove 300 miles to buy my Road King 2 years ago and paid more than I did new. Turned around and bought an '09 FLHT for $5k. Suits me just fine, as I think the new bikes are ugly and the tech is just more that can fail, and impossible to repair in the garage. If I want tech I would buy a Goldwing - Faster, more reliable and less expensive. Except for the lack of dealer network, Indian would be a good choice too. Harley isn't the only show in town.
I bought a new 2023 CVO Street Glide 2 weeks ago. I had intended on buying a 24 SG. The dealer had marked the 23 down over $5K!! $39,999 OTD! It was their last 23 CVO. Hoe could I say no! I don’t know when they marked it down but I felt I couldn’t pass it up. The 24 regular SG was $29Kish OTD. The way I saw it, I would have spent 6-8K on the 24 and still not had the motor and the front end.
The new bikes 2024 are nice and modern and finally somewhat up to date… the 2023 and below looks dated from decades ago as far as styling cues(some models looks like it came from the 90’s)… Those 2023 glides are staying put for a while with or without discounts…
I rode a 24 RG today $28K. My 22RGST was $32K. Only offered $20K for a trade in 😡🤬 the new RG is a huge improvement
20 years ago I bought a 4 year old evo FXDWG .I only sold it last , I sold it for what I paid for it in 2004
Still riding and enjoying my 2003 Ultra which I bought brand new in 2003.
My bike comes with the following rider aids:
1) Front brakes
2) Rear brakes
3) 1200cc Inline 4 that makes insane HP and Torque.
4) Helmet with massive processing power and data contained within.
My Honda VTX 1800R approves your message.
I’m old enough to have seen Harley Davidson go through more than a couple of questionable corporate philosophy changes. Going “woke” is certainly a poor decision for HD, but when they realize how it ultimately affects their bottom line, the woke BS will quickly become a thing of the past. If you currently own a Harley, and you like it, by all means keep it. Get all of your parts and accessories, riding gear, etc. from other sources. Don’t buy a new Harley… plenty of low mileage, used Harleys on the market.