How EV Subsidies are Distorting the Market
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- This video offers an overview of subsidies in European countries with special emphasis on Norway. You will see that fossil fuel cars face an unfair competition
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:40 EV subsidies (Norway)
03:09 Cost of usage
06:57 EV subsidies (Europe)
10:58 Without subsidies
12:26 Future of subsidies
I'm curious about your future video's. The quality is there. Would love to hear (more) about some topics that are more unknown or less talked about. Keep up the awesome video edits!
Thank you very sincerely for those kind words ! Feel free to suggest a topic that would interest you and I will consider it ☺
Now make a video about how subsidies for gasoline cars distorted the market. They were allowed to dump their trash into the our air for free.
Imagine if they had to pay for all the environmental damage they are causing. How much more trains, bikes and walkable downtowns would we have by now?
EV is much more economical without any subsidies, if negative externalities are factored in.
This is a common argument, especially from North Americans. But first you have to realize that in Europe, you don't have oil and gas industries except for Norway and a little gas in Netherlands, so there can be no talk about "big oil" subsidies.
Then when it comes to imported fuel, we pay sizeable excise taxes on gasoline and diesel, which are by themselves higher that carbon tax typically recommended by climate panels.
Lastly, externalities are altogether quite murky. It is very hard to estimate them now because they contain a lot of subjectivity, quite impossible to project them long into the distant future, and are applied quite selectively
@@unconventionaleconomics Those taxes are spent on building roads, not to offset environmental damage.
Sure negative externalities are hard to calculate, but it is not a reason to pay 0.
@@juzoli Yes all taxes are lumped into one big pool of money, so you cannot say which taxes pay for what.
But how do you suggest they should be offset? We barely know what the damages are. Should we pay cash to people living in cities with worse quality air? Should we increase subsidies for farmers whose crops are more sensitive to heat?
@@unconventionaleconomics I’m a capitalist, so I’m on the side of economists, who say we should have carbon taxes, and let the markets decide, instead of cherrypicking specific industries.
It doesn’t mean that some new technologies cannot be “pushed” with some additional funding just to get it going.
@@juzoli Nice, I think we got to a productive ground.
My main problem with this is that once you talk about taxes and subsidies, it's not the market that decides, but the votes, or even whims of a handful of politicians. Once you collect the carbon taxes and the budget will get bigger, you will see various group try to get a piece of it. Retirees will want bigger pensions, students will want to fund student loans, young adults will want higher parental leave benefits, everybody will want better health care. Case in point - emission allowances. They brought quite a lot of money for European governments, yet it's hard to say they have been used to offset externalities.
And secondly, since the carbon taxes typically burden the lower income part of the population more, the government then needs to offset this with economic support of these groups, thus spending the money they collected in the first place (unless they want to anger the masses), looping back to point number one.
Yes, that's the whole point of the EV subsidies, to incentivise the adoption of EV's. Could you look next into the subsidies of private people transportation vs the ones of public transport?
I know it's kinda obvious, but I think it's informative to see the scale. And believe me, I've heard opinions like "The only reason Norwegians have more EV's is because they care about the planet".
I'm not sure if the second part of your comment is sarcastic or not?
To be fair, there is a couple more reasons that EV adaption has gone pretty smooth here. It is prette common for people here to have single family residence. Since we have such a low population we don't have that many appartments with problamatic parking. If you have a garage or fixed parking next to your house it is pretty simple to install a EV charging point.
FYI, i drive an EV and work in the oil industry
Yeah good point. I know about the contribution of housing, but I thought the video was already going long, so I left a few things out.
Then I thank you for your work. We simply need the oil and gas in Europe and its a good thing that with Norway we can diversify the imports. Btw I don't have anything against EV's
Awesome edits. Keep up the good work ☺
Thank you dearly
The carmakers must be overjoyed that they invested so much money into EV's, and the demand is falling so rapidly without subsidies
Yes, even though so far their profit margins from EV's are still close to zero, so they are not losing as much as from ICE sales drop
However they might want EV demand to continue to achieve economies of scale.
@@Loanshark753 Yeah economies of scale are a part of it, however the bigger problem are the batteries - Europe does not have the materials nor the technological edge, so it has to import it with decent margin, which increases the production cost, making it harder for them to compete with both ICE and Asian EV's
Let's make our country green but export multiple times more fossil fuels to pay for it... Norway 3D chess
Don't get high on your own supply!
@@mreyesonthelies4386 Exactly 😆
They don’t export more to pay for it. They don’t even need to pay for it, because EV is cheaper there.
@@juzoli Well the EV's are cheaper only due to the different tax treatment. The fact that EV's are exempt from the taxes means the government is losing income which it would get if the EV's were not exempt. And they are building of co-financing charging stations. Without the exports they would have to get the chunk of money somewhere else.
@@unconventionaleconomics No, it is cheaper because Norway has cheap electricity from renewable energy.
While the O&G industries receive billions in subsidies despite record profits in North America.
I'm quite worried about the encroachment of subsidies into the free markets in general. They represent an often unjustified redistribution of money and offer more potential for corruption.
Subsidies are biased financial support for something that can't carry it's own cost. When the subsidies are removed the market collapses. You take money from ex. healthcare, school etc to finance an illusional transission. Let the market take of this it self. If EV:s will have a future well the will survive without subsidies. If not, well EV:s weren't the future. There's no idea to make CPR on an already dead patient. What caused the death of EV:s 100 years ago and why havn't they been any major succuess ouside the early adopters despite serious attempts for every decade the last 100 years? In many cases you are leasing the car for three years and then after three years returning it. What's happnening then is that the old EV will be hard to sell on the used market due to higher interessed rates though lower price. You can get a new one with lower interessed rates though higher purcases price with affordable warranties instead. Some car comapnies efforts interessed rates far below the banks. Then ask your self the question: who is paying for the difference - you, the credit institute or the car maker? The EV market turns to be single use with used cars piling up unsellable. Our european harbours are piling up with new unsellable chinese EV:s . Some cars are old as 18 month. Standing in a harbour in those harsh salty weather conditions isn't good at all. Standing without any kind of charging isn't good too. I know how a car can look on it's undercarriage after standing on a wet and damp lawn for serveral years. It was brown/red = corrison even if it had good rust protection already from the beginning.
Just imagine if the subsidies were reversed - EV's taxed and ICE subsidized.. no one would buy an EV except for a few zealots 😆
That would be interesting indeed :D
I like the video overall and ultimately endured because of the quality content, but the background music was exceptionally annoying and will wholly prevent me from subscribing to the channel.
Merely proffering feedback for your own potential benefit, take it or leave it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm glad you liked the content and sorry to hear that you were annoyed by the music, but I definitely appreciate any feedback and constructive criticism. Is it that you don't like music at all with this type of videos, or just this genre, or even this one composition specifically?
@@unconventionaleconomics I'm glad you're willing to improve your content and welcome the feedback! Almost impressive anymore with the outrageous egos of some content creators these days 🫠
Keep in mind that I may very well be in a minority of people ever bothered by it, though I know people don't tend to be vocal about such things so it'd be impossible to know one way or the other 🙃
For me, informational videos are basically *never* helped by the presence of background music, especially if I'm opting to watch the video at an increased rate. My default playback speed is 1.5x but I regularly increase it depending on how slow the delivery is.
If I wanted to listen to music, I'd go to Spotify or an actual music channel... so there's not really any exception to the rule for me regarding genre or the like 😅
@@seaborgium981 Absolutely, I find it mindboggling that someone would be offended by well meaning criticism.
Ok, noted. I would like to hear from others what are their preferences, but given that I don't have large social media following, I don't know how to make a representative poll. So thank you for your feedback and I will try to get more reactions regarding the music! 😁