Hearing the words "Genocide is wrong" changed my life... I am a 25-year-old man from South Sudan, I have spent most of my life in a continuous war, it was a normal day two weeks ago as I was fighting. Then, me and my brothers watched Attack on Titan Season 4 Part 2 Episode 9 and heard the character of Hange say "Genocide is wrong", we then began to all put our guns down and perform a ceremonial dance of peace with our enemies. Thank you, Hange Zoe, and thank you Hajime Isayama. This quote changed my life. My entire view of everything that exists in this world, in fact, even in the entire universe. I can never look at anything I know the same way again. This dialogue represents emotions that most humans could never understand. But I can. In the future historians will look back on this scene and regard it as the pinnacle of human achievement. I rate this episode 10 African tribes/10 African tribes, and will never watch it again as every time I get saddened by the fact that there will never be such dialogue to match this masterpiece.
lol yeah the more and more i hear that line the more i start to realize how bad it is. it may very well be the single worst line of dialogue in anything i’ve ever seen. its such an insult to your audience, as if we didn’t know that already, and isayama talks to us like we’re children who need scolding, after giving us such a deep and well told complicated story about war and genocide and expecting us to pick up on the most subtle of subtle subtext, to then slap us in the face with that message, as if to say that all critical thinking up to that point was meaningless because his opinion on the matter (given to us through hange) is all that matters. every single character she was saying that to knew it was wrong, and so did the audience, so what was the point? its just a flat out disrespectful piece of writing that i’m honestly shocked that any writer would ever put in a story like this.
The children in the forest speech was already enough to tell us this situation is bad, we don't need literal Nick Jr preach talk from a hypocrite about genocide to understand ugh
@@ozren8917 Regardless the ending proved the Rumbling was right. And it's sad that the Paradisians of The Alliance couldn't see that because they didn't care.
Didn't Historia already said that Eren was right about the only way this war will end is for one side shall stand and the other side wipeout in the end? So even after 50 years had pass Paradis was still at war with the world so Eren did fail to bring peace to paradis, even when they were discussing peace treaties, they were still at war
Another problem I have with ending defenders is that they always say “everyone was against erens plan” when the main people against his plans were 1) obviously the enemies and 2) like what? 10 people from paradise? (Mikasa, armin, hange, Jean and Connie (who was manipulated by armin and hange) and like those hand full of people in the aftermath of the collapse wall who were just pissed about their family dying from the wall, not actually the people being killed outside the wall. So discounting the worlds military and politics which carriers the image of their countries, and are the enemies narrative wise, all we got as paridise folks who opposed wrens true plan were like 10-12 people. Yup 10-12 people who holds no credible weight in Paridise anymore speaks for the entirety of paradise. Makes sense 🙂
Does he not remember reading erens inner monologue where he is telling himself that maybe the world would be at peace if eldia & titans were to be Eliminated….but I can’t accept it! He’s not saying that cause “I can’t accept it cause I want to destroy the world lmao. He’s saying it because he can’t accept seeing his people aka everyone he’s ever loved be slaughtered for shit their ancestors did hundreds of years ago that’s why.
He saw the future but not all, for example he did not know that Willy Tybur was not the holder of the Warhammer titan. For whatever reason, he only saw parts of that future that was already written. But the last arc is dogshit xD
@@grant2707 no shit, because the rest of the world would always want the genocide of the 'island devils', friends or not. The context matters. If no one had attacked his home, Eren would have absolutely no reason to stomp out all life beyond the ocean. It was driving of his character. But with the power of Paths and the Attack Titan, he knows his people will always face persecution and forever live with the risk of being genocided. Whether it be nuked in the future or now, Eren cannot erase 2000 years of Eldian hatred. So he takes matters into his own hands. If Eren was so for genocide, he would not be so conflicted (Ch.131). He doesn't want to, but he has no choice if he wants his people to survive (he fails at this).
@@spartanchief2 then why do you think the entire story there's these (seemingly) out of place lines about erens nature and "i was born like this"... Wouldn't those lines be out of place if what i was saying was false?
What I hate about these videos is that the all say the same thing, that the rumbling is bad because its bad. They don't give any new real solutions to the whole problem and instead they just elaborate why the prexisting plans like the 50 yr pland and the Euthanasia plan could work. If you gonna say the rumbling is bad, then you have to come with your own alternative to problem and not explain somebody else plans on the matter. This is and only is the way you can successfully convience people that the rumbling didn't need to happen.
@@nerevarchthn6860 The Rumbling isn’t good, but EREN didn’t have any better options for what HE wanted to achieve. All the audience’s expectations & hopes are inconsequential. From Eren’s perspective, who he was, what he experienced, what he found important leads to his actions. The audience is not needed to agree or disagree with Eren, but to understand why he did what he did. We are not needed to defend the Rumbling, but to feel whatever we feel from it. If you’re mad, you feel something. Isayama did his job.
@@nerevarchthn6860 How are you guys so dumb? Literally nobody says the rumbling is good. This is why nobody takes you guys serious, you're just not intelligent enough to formulate competent thoughts.
I like the idea that Eren had to gigamind manipulate everyone to activate his "evil desire to kill the world" when he literally could have just pretended to go along with the 50 year plan, which was literally to activate a small scale rumbling anyways, and then just do the whole rumbling then instead.
The thing is, that plan would imply to sacrifice Historia. We saw that Eren was against it because in order to have control of the beast Titan The MP's we're planning to feed Zeke as soon as possible to Historia. Eren oppose the idea because he didn't trust the MP's would wait until the first Rumbling was completed, because they themselfs didn't trust Zeke, so he had to consider going with Zeke's plan so Historia wouldn't be sacrificed.
@@andrewvazquez9557 Also we can't forget that Eren himself only has, at best, 4 years of his life remaining. So even if he went along with that plan, it wouldn't even be him executing it.
@@andrewvazquez9557 which would be perfectly fine as a reason if the curse of Ymir couldn’t just be eliminated after it, which would then let Historia live a long live regardless… This is a certified 139 moment
@@lmaono1356 Yes, I forgot to mention this theory of mine would only make sense if 138 and 139 don't exist. Which is when Isayama decided to throw the manga down the toilet like it was trash.
The 50 year plan is horrible for a myriad of reasons, but most of all, because there is a substantial amount of unknown factors. For one, it requires the total and utter compliance of Historia's children. Not only condemning them to live as cattle, but also, possibly forcing them to enact a Rumbling. If even one of the children, in 50 years, were to revolt, disagree, or abandon the plan, the fate of Paradis is doomed. Irregardless of that fact, Hizuru is at best, an unreliable ally. As shown, Kiyomi is not interested in Paradis for noble alliance, but rather, for greed: iceburst stone. It is highly likely that Hizuru will be the profiteer--buying it from Paradis, and inflating the price to sell to other nations. After a small scale Rumbling, no nation in the outside World will trade with Paradis: Hizuru will necessitate that trade. Hizuru would also most benefit in killing either the The Royal Beast Titan or the holder of The Founding Titan. In betraying Eldia, they would become the sole processor of iceburst stone, and create alliances with much stronger nations. The 50 year plan also fails in terms of diplomacy. Before a small scale Rumbling, the worst fears and nightmares of the outside World were only fueled by racism and speculation, but now, they have justification for their hate and vitriol. While an 80% Rumbling at least bides time for technological advancement, a small scale Rumbling will only fuel the invention of more powerful and evolved anti-titan weaponry. Where an 80% Rumbling would eradicate the supply chain, flattening factories, manufacturers, and industries, a small scale one would only threaten. The entire outside World would now be aligned even more than before, with a significantly higher population than Eldia and a head start of 100 years. The 50 year plan also requires the power of the Titans; This makes negotiations incredibly difficult. Who would possibly sit at a table with Armin, the holder of The Colossal Titan? The distrust inside of Paradis would also be something to consider, as the Yeagerists would be heavily opposed to the 50 year plan. Meanwhile, the secrecy and protection of The Royal Beast Titan and the Founder would sow seeds of doubt in the public eye. The alterior motives of The Royal Family, The Yeagerists, and Hizuru all conflict with the 50 year plan. If even one of these were to fail, so does the entirety of the plan. Alliances between The Royal Family and the Yeagerists or Hizuru and the outside World pose major threats. The presumption that Paradis survives even 50 years with this plan is unlikely. While the 80% plan is equally infuriating and nonsensical, it at the very least, in theory, forces Hizuru's loyalty, allows for the possibility of diplomacy, and buys Eldia time to advance technologically. Regardless, the only guarantee for Paradis' survival is a 100% Rumbling.
And Eren doesn’t even know where each and every military in the world is. We already see that the world had the tech to destroy a couple of titans. Does he not think that in at most 2 years the world, all coming together like they did in Liberio, would build something strong and capable enough of destroying colossals en masse?
One thing I've always found odd was Historia's willingness to inherit the Beast Titan and thus force the burden of Titan inheritance onto her descendants. That's exactly what her father tried to do to her in the Uprising Arc and she doesn't even acknowledge that fact. She just decides to go along with it because.........reasons. All the 50 year plan would've accomplished anyway is kicking the can further down the road until one side completely destroyed the other so it wouldn't even be worth it for the island's safety for Historia to go along with the plan.
1)The first point about historia is valid. But i dont see why logically speaking the children of historia would betray eldia. There wouldnt by any future for them if they wanted to betray. They would just die at the hands of the world. They would (most likely) be in a situation where they are forced to follow along. I mean i am pretty sure they want to survive. So ur criticism , even though valid, is not going to pose much issue. 2)Its not realistic to ask for any "noble alliance" be it in our wold or theirs. Every nation is out there for their interests. The fact that Hizuru want to even talk with the islanders is a noble deed. Now the small scale rumbling works but for the exact opposite reason as u mentioned. The fact that paradis DIDN'T destroy the world even though they very well could will ease the possibility for negotiations and peace talks. I mean its simple, eren soft rumbles and destroys the global military alliance and the major military bases of the world. Now yelena has stated that with the military of a nation gone , it can very well enter into a state of economic depression. Also, once soft rumbled , the world will be forced to enter into negotiations with paradis island(It can even happen that paradis will by contract limit the military advancement of a bunch of nations - paradis will limit their military size and production of weapons- if the disagree they will be rumbled- so they are forced to agree). Paradis can DEMAND money , resources and technology from the major nations(like say the mid east alliance). The world will have to comply or else they get wiped out. Now in the time they get from the small rumbling , through right diplomacy, paradis can gain many allies in smaller nations around the world. This can be done by making them business partners (there is a large cache of fossil fuels beneath paradis + ice burst stone + other natural resources on paradis) . Paradis can in exchange ask for researches and scientists who can work for them in advancing their military might and money as well. Also many smaller nations can be turned against marley (Eldia can show their cooperation and desire to bring freedom and justice to those lands) who has oppressed them for decades(This can be eased out a bit because of the anti-marleyan volunteers). 3)I agree with the internal conflicts between the yeagerists and the govt in paradis. Its unknown how they can deal with that. More transparency ig (to deal with public distrust). All in all , i dont think that its as hopeless and u make it sound to be. IF paradis can manage the production of WMDs(like nuclear warheads) in the 40 to 50 yr time period they get and make some allies around the globe and still have the threat of the rumbling , I dont think they will necessarily get wiped out. Their chances arent the best but its possible with the right diplomacy( dont send armin maybe top military leaders like pyxis etc).
Invaderz video update: He changed the title from “do not defend the rumbling” to “This video will change the way you see the rumbling.” Basically admitting defeat lol.
I still wasn’t convinced on his previous video, and I’m not convinced now. If anything, it makes me hate the ending more and sad for Eren’s assassination
The biggest thing I hate about long ass recap videos that rarely every gets to the point until later in the video is the fact that the creator of the video tires out the viewer with bluff so that when they bring up their main point, the average viewer was so manipulated by a recap that the speaker must “obviously know what they’re talking about and must be right cuz they used up 20-30 mins of my time filling it up with shit that in hindsight most of the time did not fit the narrative” and although there’s time saint can go a bit overboard in some videos, he does a great job of holding down the fort of viewer exhaustion to call absolute bullshit, as he did once Invaderzz brought up his “objective” reasons of why the 50 year plan is best (starting at 15:00). Invaderzz basically said “the 50 years is best because it is” with not much of a backing from that 15 min recap other then speaking on why the plan he despises wasn’t a plan to him, and saint smelled that shit from across the ocean of paridise Also a big thing ending defenders in the comments and Reddit are keep bringing up is the environmental aftermath of the disruption from the rumbling. Ofcourse we know that in real life because we’re back by the history of real world examples; we can’t shun erens actions on what’s to come on that fate because ain’t no way that mf would know that it would that destroy all of paridise due to that fate because the story wasn’t written for for him to know what issue that would cause to paridise a lot of it stemming from his (i don’t know/only yimir knows) line. He also states in the last chapter to armin that it will flatten to land to soil and and Shit, even at 80%. 80%, 100%, 60%, it doesn’t fucking matter, numbers past the 50% will cause an obscene amount of climate devastation for its surrounding parties, the story just didn’t write that as an issue in their story because 80% should have ruined the environment without a doubt. Yes, it’ll cause a Shit future for paradise, but the point of eren motive was to give his friends and his people freedom by wiping that history of hatred of the map outside the walls, not, “how would they survive the environmental damage after” the story didn’t even make that a narrative
@@saintitchief not entirely the lack of forest would bring up co2 levels and bring down oxygen levels for a couple of years but it is not nearly as bad as ending defenders are making it seem. the problem would sort it self out in like one hundred years and the island people would probably suffer some mild oxygen deprivation for a short time before plant return in mass. It's not like the oxygen already in the air is just going to suddenly disappear.
@@creeperkingdom3190 big boss, we’re speaking on the fact that the story written itself to be that paridise would be fine with a completely flatten world (even doe we the audience know it wouldn’t it it was taken seriously) because all that you listed should still happen with 80% of the land and people wipped out. The story written itself to have no affect from environmental damage, therefore with this logic in the story, then staying on paridise will be fine
@@creeperkingdom3190 Why would Eren Rumble Forests? I think it is pretty stupid if he had to do that. He is only trying to remove humans outside the walls mainly his enemies. There is no need for him to rumble the jungles and forests and desserts where there is literally no one. The environment argument is as dumb as any. It is also why I think there could have been some survivors outside the walls (Secret/remote places, Underground bunkers etc) We also don't know the founder's full ability but if it can create life and "plant crops" which some people have theorised for AoE then that solves that issue. A reach but plausible
He covered up and tried to trick the viewer with his long recap and didn't provide actual evidence as to why you shouldn't support the rumbling Just listed the same things we been told and he also used alot of head canon on things that were left up to interpretation Eren did not souly want to destroy the World he lost faith in humanity ever thinking about making peace the rumbling was his last resort to a situation where there was no better outcome due to the circumstances of the story
Exactly what he did with his Eren is not free video or whatever it's called he just tells you to swallow his interpretation to try to convince you into his point of view
@@furiousdestroyah9999 How does a statement from Isayama change anything in the debate? Arguments are based on what is seen/written in the manga. Outside sources are irrelevant.
1:00:16 This is litteraly what I said lol. Like peoples are saying "Eren forced them"... they could of just not rescue Eren but they knew that if they let Eren dies the Island was screwed.
An ongoing problem is that invaderzz rambles on recapping events in the story, without really explaining how it relates to his point. It feels like he's reading off the Wikia, in his monotone voice that sounds like he's bored.
"Eren wanted to destroy the world from the very beginning" Oh yeah, I forgot in chapter 1 when Eren says "I don't get why people won't let us talk about the outside world. All I said was that I wanted to destroy it. damn" Thank you for reacting to this video saintitchief because omg. I couldn't do that alone.
Isayama compares his AOT ending with the Mist movie's ending. The Mist movie's ending if when the father kills his son and three friends to prevent them from being killed by the monsters. 2 minutes later, the mist clears and the military passes by the father along with the people who stayed behind in the supermarket due to their fear of going outside. The father cried in sadness due to how they would've been saved if the father hadn't committed the murder. I believe that if the Scouts actually went to the Tybur estate to talk with Willy Tybur regarding Paradis Island's wish for peace. Willy would've granted them it. The whole point of Willy's arc is to show how he wants to end Marley's military expansionism and prevent Paradis' retribution. He would've gladly helped the Scouts if they agree to destroy the colossal titans. In other words, Hange's idea was reasonable and it baffles me why they didn't just talk to the world leaders. This is evident when most of the world leaders were shocked that Karl Fritz was the true hero who saved the world nations from ancient Eldia's occupations. The world nations hate Marley but respect the Tybur Family. They only followed Willy due to how he was truthful to them and because of his family name.
Invaderzz and the 3 million people and EMs who watched that video and supported it are indescribably delusional. But I guess making an hour and a half video bringing up stupid excuses and philosophies to defend the manga, including ignoring the extra pages makes it logical, right? NNNNNNNNNNNOPE
Uhhh did you mean "this video will change how you see the rumbling"? No, I'm sorry that's the wrong one. "The rumbling is indefensible" Ah yes that's it!
>wanted to destroy the world >Didnt turn Historia into a pure titan to activate wall titans the moment Zeke brought injections Also while knowing titans will be gone Ok invaderz
I wonder if you ask those defenders if they are willing to sacrifice their families and countries they would say "yes, go ahead"...actually I think they will considering how self-hating they are.
None of them are smart enough to put themselves in their shoes. None of them would be willing to die so the rest of the world can feel more comfortable 😂
I'd support it in real life too. I'm not dying so the rest of the world can feel more comfortable. Either leave us alone, or prepare for the rumbling. Good job Eren, you have a backbone.
Is self defense justified? Then the rumbling is justified. Period. Otherwise you are saying you should allow yourself to be sacrificed to the mob. F THAT. Also, remember Commander Erwin stating something like, 'humanity will know peace when our numbers will fall to one or zero'. That's the backdrop of Eren's decision. Any decision would eventually end with the world trying to wipe out the Eldians.
You bumbed into me so I rape your entire family and kill them self defense tho. Selfdefense isn't justified if its exessive they teach you that in school and its a law.
Basically dont support the rumbling but support threatning people with it and if they attack u can use the rumbling :) WHICH THEY DID they keep attacking paradise
Invaderzz : Do not defend the Rumbling 🤓 Invaderzz : Whatever happened in the manga is driven by circumstances (80%) Me : Isn't that hypocritical to say do not defend the Rumbling while defend what happened in the manga which is 80%? Is it me getting dumber or is it Invaderzz being a hypocrite? 🤔
About that environmental problem that ending defenders like to bring up, I wouldn't worry for the Paradisians honestly. I mean, the manga told us Ymir could change the biology of her subjects until they were proven able to survive to a pandemic. So yeah, not to worry. It wouldn't matter in the world where Eren didn't stop at 80%.
And even with an 80% Rumbling and a pandemic, Paradis could keep itself safe from being nuked by selling face masks and toilet paper to the outside world. It worked for Ch- *BANNED FROM THE INTERNET*
What ? No, you can’t just evolve m organism to survive massive droughts, floods, hurricanes & mass crop failures, you stupid eco-fascists maniacal fucks
I actually really, really loved the moral complexity of the show. Morality in itself is actually an interesting topic, because there is often not an objective right and wrong. It's why there's more than 1 way to try a person for murder. It's also why it's alright to kill someone in self defense. What is right and what is wrong is a mix of so many factors, situations and perspectives that it really makes it very difficult to nail down
The flaw of the invaderz video is he's demonizing the characters to really emphasize his point just as much how people that defend the rumbling see the alliance as dummies because they didn't think of everything. The story presented the conflict as hopeless and that eren and the gang are in the depths of despair and the only solution is to kill everyone but despite how hopeless it may be, it wants you to not choose for it. Their reasons we're right but the actions they take are not. The whole message of the story is to keep trying no matter how hopeless it may be and accept humanity's flaw because just how it is. The world is not just cruel and violent but it's also full of beauty. People take the story differently because it's just a matter of perspective, people that only see the cruelty (Eren, Floch, Zeke) and the people that see the beauty in it (Armin, Mikasa). The story shows us that people can be changed no matter how indiscriminate they are towards people at Paradis, we see this with nicollo, Reiner, gabi, and magath.
When will people realize that pseudo-philosophical Facebook statuses are worthless? You can write as many beautiful words as you like, but they mean nothing if a gun is pointed to the heads of you and your family. And yes, of the 4 "changed people" only Niccolo became peaceful towards the Eldians. The other three both killed before "redemption arc" and continued after.
You hit the nail on the head. The Rumbling IS wrong, but there isn't a clear alternative presented in the story. Think about FMAB, here. That nailed the aspect that, even though Mustang and the Armestrians were the good guys, they would still be war criminals after the Homunculi were defeated.
So, the scouts met a dozen good people, big deal, does that mean that everyone else can change? And I'll tell you why a lot of people are heartless, cause they once cared too much for humanity and its people (races didn't matter), they were good people and then got backstabbed and taken advantage of cause they showed too much loyalty to humanity's "good", and they're not stupid for not being able to see the "beauty" of it. "Isayama wanted us to hate the rumbling, even though there was no other choice left", then he shouldn't have made this the only possible solution No matter how "realistic" the ending is supposed to be, the taste in your mouth and many others' is super bitter, especially after eren and armin's character retcons, AND the mikasa and ymir "connection". Mikasa to ymir: "You were the one peeking in my mind", remind me again, how can the founder peek into an ACKERMANN's mind. And also, "Armin, you remember now TOO, don't you, when eren........came to visit us". What do you mean "you too" mikasa, you never forgot anything, unless your memories got erased, therefore MANIPULATED, which is impossible because again, you're an ACKERMANN
But defend idiotic Hange and arMONG's plan to sit around and do nothing and just hope nothing bad happens, but they jump up and are ready to go as soon as someones starzs to actually do somethong. So what is Invaderzz defending here ? Racism? It's not our fault that Isayama gave Eren one option... Isayama's ending did just that which is actually confirm that Rumbling was the right optionn so Invaderzz should go knock on his door and nag him on about how its ok to destroy Paradis based on their race but not okay for them to attack back, basically defending themselves for GOOD... and im talking purely about the stuff pre retcon... the 139 doesnt nake any sense storywise to draw any conclusions from rather then some outlandish "pedo abuser stockholm syndrome semantics" and war will never end bs
I don't normally agree with this youtuber but right here he cooked invaderzz up. It just show how much youtuber are just humans at the end of the day and can be biased. Massive L for invaderzz on this one
Marley failed its own citizens by starting this war for the purpose of their own greed. Not only did this war not need to happen, they themselves attacked Paradis citizens first with the same brutality as the rumbling. The people that died at Paradis were as innocent and clueless as any of them. Instead of blaming Eren for fighting back with the means that he has, blame Marley who set the tone, refused to stand down and even meant to use to commit the same sins they argue Paradis deserves to be tortured and wiped out for. Ofcourse genocide is fucking wrong. But so is laying down and accepting gross injustice, and especially on behalf of others! Unless all of Paradis held hands and accepted death, noone can accept death for them!
Paradis got nuked by 20% of humanity launching nuclear weapons on them for bloody revenge after the Alliance sabotaged the Rumbling. Lol Eren died for nothing!
@UmQasaann rather die on my feet than live on my knees! Besides. If Eren's plan failed its because he passed the baton unto Armin to 'negotiate' with Marley. Both in a weakened state and indebted to the heroes that killed Eren, Armin never really managed to negotiate shit, did he 🥸.
Yeah ok, he's wrong about the Faye situation. Faye's death shaped grisha's life moving forward, what made him a restorationist when he found out later on. If faye hadn't died, grisha would've never went to eldia let alone outside marley, he would've never reached paradis and would've never stolen the founder from the royal family. And the rumbling would never happen, because of fritz's vow renouncing war, which in case people forgot, prevents the royal blooded from fully using the founding titan, so it would still be marley that kills faye. What in davy jones's dirty boots he was talking about?
You’re partially right. Yes Faye’s death did lead to Grisha winding up on Paradis and inheriting the Attack Titan. However, it wasn’t the catalyst. If Marley never kicked down the walls, Grisha wouldn’t have stolen the Founder. He would have just lived out the remainder of his days on Paradis - which was exactly what he was doing. The walls were destroyed, threatening the Eldians of Paradis and causing Eren to manipulate Grisha to go through with his plan to steal the Founder.
@@Silver-iixfair enough, that's fine. But was faye's death the cause of the rumbling as a whole, was her death the catalyst? If not, then invaderzz's argument is void
@@Philthorn Honestly, there are numerous points in the story where the Rumbling could have been prevented. I’d argue that it was the Eldian rights group meeting that made Eren finally go through with the Rumbling, as up until that point he was searching for an alternative. Along with trying to prove that the future he saw could be changed. Inevitably, it was Marleys lack of sympathy towards the Eldians on Paradis that lead to the Rumbling, as Marley was unwilling to find a diplomatic solution.
@@Philthorn You asked if it directly resulted in the Rumbling and I said it didn’t. I then gave you my thoughts on what actually did. 😂 Everything I said is relevant.
THERE WAS ALWAYS AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION to the whole conflict between paradis and the outside world which is some of the scouts like armin eren mikasa and hange etc would meet willy tyber and discuss with him paradis's wush for peace then willy would relay their wish to the representatives of the world nations who gathered at liberio after he showed them the truth about carl fritz in the festival then hange will come out and tell the people that she is from paradis and descuss her plan for peace which is eren and historia will activate the founding titan power and unharden the walls and destroy all the wall titans in front of the world representatives at paradis then they will vow to use the founding titan power to communicate with ymir fritz at the paths and convince her to let go of the power of the titans (and the concept of her love for the 1st fritz king is stupid in and of itself) Then the paradisians are allowed to leave paradis and explore the world and the rest of eldians in internment zones are freed and this is how you end the cycle of hatere
40:31 Invaderzz clearly forgot Eren's whole philosophy of "Everyone is special because they were born into this world." The words his mother said. This is the reason he rejected the 50-year/Euthanization plan. He believed people were special in birth. Eren found value in living. He didn't want freedom in death like Zeke. 1:05:11 Eren literally said that protecting the future of the island was his goal in chapter 123. 1:06:22 Bro said: "Eren's BETRAYAL of Paradis." LOL I'm shcleep. 1:20:27 "Perhaps Paradis could've made a bid with the allied nations who opposed Marley." Invaderzz either didn't or can't read. Gabi's friend Udo stated: "The rest of the world hates Eldians even more so than Marley does." and "Marley is the "nicest" to Eldians." That same Marley that fed an innocent little girl to dogs alive. Paradis weren't making an alliance with anybody. It was never a possibility, and the Declaration of War QUINTUPLE DOWNED on that. 1:24:29 If Faye was never killed, Grisha would have never ventured out of Marley despite his parents pushing him to. If Grisha doesn't go to Paradis, he would've never gotten the Founding Titan and the Founder would've stayed in the Royal family, Eren would never have been born and Paradis would've been destroyed much sooner and the Eldian race would've gone extinct after Marley got the Founder. What the fuck is Invaderzz yapping about??
No one needs an hour to prove or show a point, this shows who the dumber one is. Making an hour long video doesn't change the fact that the author proved you were wrong
Saint already bummed Shash in his debate. Shash was left clueless even to the point his own fans told him to stfu. Same thing has happened to Invaderzz now his video has backfired massively. His own fans are calling him out for his BS
Okay, it was historia's decision to get pregnant? Sure, that's fine i guess. Let's say that was the twist and the father's identity is irrelevant and serves no purpose. Why does she ask the question to eren like his opinion is supposed to be important or something. Since it was her decision alone, no one else's opinion should matter, so why is eren being asked that, then cut short right before his response, and never mentioned again. Even if his opinion is irrelevant too, we should've at least seen it whole in that chapter. Not to mention that that specific part of the conversation was mixed with eren and zeke's conversation about mikasa's feelings for him, those two conversations are supposed to have different topics and for some reason they're mixed? Not one after the other? You may think I'm stretching it but that's not on me, that's on isayama for making it seem like that. It's a shame he never explained that and turns out, "the sins of the father" theme turned out to be useless too "It's fine, get pregnant, save yourself from the mps and live a normal life, a life you can be proud of", even something so simple could've sufficed, even if that was her own selfish decision to get pregnant. If isayama was never gonna continue that, he shouldn't even let mappa animate her asking the question (should've ended it right when eren called her the worst girl in the world). It was just 3 seconds of irrelevant, meaningless screen time anyway, there shouldn't have been an issue. They should have at least given us farmer kun's backstory or his own pov if not historia's, at least his. Historia deserved so much better, whether people agree or not
I don’t know but I get this big natural feeling because of the sins of the father theme and how much tragic irony and build up chemistry eren and histroia have something truly tells me the original intention was that eren did indeed nock her up to keep her save and she fall in love with him because how much she understands his pain But since the creator is very garbage at making conclusions will never truly know but that’s the speculation iam going with BIG TIME!! And I say this to the creator and all your SIMP TOID D SUCKER FOLLOWERS F 🖕YOU I got plans to edit the final film in October soon to my personal preference so ITS ALL GOOD 👍 Ok moving on
JustAcritic's Colossal Review of Attack on Titan is probably one of the best 'ending defender' takes of AoT. JAC actually used what was presented in the manga to justify the ending, instead of headcanons, what ifs, or Eastern philosophy! While I still dislike the ending, and I don't agree with every point JAC made, he definitely helped me see parts of the ending in a whole new light. JAC even criticised parts of the ending that weren't done so well in his opinion, and he even gives praise to how well written Floch is!
Eren is X for sure, I wouldnt go as far to say the First King is martin luther though, considering the First KIng wiped the memories of his subjects. ofc its not 1:1 but
Everybody loves the peaceful guy, because they can take advantage of him. But they can't mess with X, because he will actually retaliate. Could have all been avoided if the world left Eldians alone, but they let fear consume them and got clapped as a result. Lesson learned.
I mean, like the first attempted invasion to paradis was a shit show, Marley sent four children alone without supervision and left them there for five years without any means to communicate with them or fall back in case of defeat, it was a coincidence they sent the beast and cart and they waited five years to finally go see what happened with their warriors. The second invasion of paradis was no longer for the resources but to monitor a global threat, but like, they sent 32 survey ships to the island and all of them were lost, why didn't they send warships to escort them? I know the excuse is that they were in war, but if you can spare 32 fucking ships and countless men in them it's stupid not to send a destroyer or a warship to escort them. And finally the third invasion of paradis was to neutralize an active global threat, this was the massive landing of airborne troops on shinganshina, it was the most impressive attack in Marley's history, and they failed miserably and actually caused the rumbling in making this rushed attack, why didn't they wait for the global alliance to mobilize their troops and land on the island? Because Reiner thought Eren would start the rumbling, Marley, the nation that enslaves eldians and reduce them to cannon fodder and human farms, the ones that don't let eldians talk to Marleyans unless talked to, acted out of the fear of an eldian, it doesn't make sense, also Marley abandoned the plan to conquer paradis after their war with the middle east because they lost two warriors and the rumbling was now a plausible threat, but they returned to it and made a declaration of war enraging Eren more because Zeke told the general that it was a good publicity stunt, it doesn't make sense, nothing makes sense. I like Marley and the outside world as a concept because of its implication, the implication that the world in what seems to be the 1920s is ruled by what at the time were considered minorities. Marley is a nation modeled after fascist italy and its the global super power of this world, its closest rival is the middle eastern alliance, a stand in for the ottoman empire, we see ambassador ogweno and his wife being the representatives of a black nation that during the rumbling we see are an industrial and wealthy nation, and those who are considered inferior and discriminated against are white germanic people, this makes an interesting premise for the outside world, but it's all so underdeveloped and isayama justified it very poorly that in retrospective makes the reveal of Marley and the outside world seem stupid. Yes Marley is evil in their actions against eldians, but we must remember that eldians are living bio weapons that can destroy entire cities in hours, yet Marley is really incompetent in putting their ghettos in the middle of their cities, Marley is an incompetent nation, but Eren is a psychopath with no motivation or justification for what he did, but I really can't side with any of them for how fucking stupid everyone is.
If the fandom war is still ongoing today then I can definitely say Isayama SUCCEEDED as an author. Arguing about it this long keeps it relevant. Relevance = money, money = success. It’s a great story, great ending, executed a little roughly, but he can still take all these arguments to the bank.
@@Sukuna10281 A story is subjective. I think it’s good. You think it’s bad. Both of us are correct. My problem is how people are out here arguing as if their perspective is the only correct one and dissing Isayama like he didn’t write a narrative that set the world on fire. “He rushed it.” “He didn’t know how to end it!” “He messed up the character.” Instead, it should just be “I didn’t like it because of (reasons),” & “I liked it because of (reasons).” “Hey that’s fair because we’re different people.” “Yeah!” The Internet is making everything some Republican vs Democrat type s**t, & it’s exhausting.
@@APrime25 "A story is subjective. I think it’s good. You think it’s bad. Both of us are correct. (...)The Internet is making everything some Republican vs Democrat type s**t" Highly agree!
Well nobody is supporting the rumbling , the show is again and again show genocide is wrong even Eren knows it but he did not saw any other way out and he did it 😏
I actually really liked his video on Eren he did a few months back. But this one just felt unnecessary and completely pointless, 80% of the video was a glorified recap
My question now is: Who guarantees that there will be peace of everyone besides the Eldians is dead? Isn't that also just a maybe? Even though most people supported the rumbling, not every single person did. And even if everyone agreed that it was the right thing to do: the yeagerists were fascist assholes and they saw no problem with just executing people who disagree with them. Doing that would obviously lead to more people criticizing them and that would maybe lead to a smaller scale war on the island. Yeah, it's also just a maybe but it's definitely a possible option.
Flock knew (or atleast thought considering 139 spoliers) that eren was dyatroying the world not really to save paradise atleast not as his main goal but to save his friends. Floch knew eren was selfish he just thought erens goals and his overlapped so he didn't care.
@@creeperkingdom3190 Does that change my statement? No, so why say anything you added nothing to the conversation. You just rephrased need l my statement.
It really clouds your better points when you're petty, man. It's hard to listen when you've clearly decided not take your opponent seriously beforehand
That's not a good plan for Eldians, as they get wiped out in 50 years. Only way Eldians survive is with the rumbling, and the extra pages prove it. Paradis got wrecked and Armin's plan proved to be fk all useless. Peace is oftentimes not the best solution. It's either we die, or they die, no in between.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928I argued with an ending defender about that and they said that Paradis got destroyed because of civil war. Copium at its finest.
I finally disagree with you. Of course Zekes plan was better. Only Historia’s family would suffer a bit before all subject of Ymir were dead. Nobody but them even would have to die within the walls. Sure they couldn’t have kids but thats better than slaughtering 80% of humanity. I would debate you any time on this. I agree with you on almost everything else. This ending was dog shit.
So you seriously think the morality of the rumbling is the same as Eldia causing a few deaths in their attack? 1:01:20 You make it sound as if it is completely irrelevant how much destruction is caused. This is the good old "Oh one enemy solider killed one of our guys? Time to wipe out the entire nation!" logic that caused many historical conflicts. Why shouldn't morality take any of that into consideration? And the same can be said about the "oh there is a "maybe" involved, this is not entirely save, lets blow up the world" argument. There are ALWAYS plenty of uncertainties involved. You just frame it in away that is conformable for your side of the argument: There was no guarantee that the titan curse could be lifted with the rumbling, in fact the story clearly showed that titans and a reason to use them would reappear no matter what.
I find it amazing that rumbling deniers take numbers into account but not scale. the outside world wanted to murder everyone in paradise out of fear and hated. the yeagerist wanted to kill everyone their out of hated and because they don't want to die. one was proactive while the other was reactive. they only reason the rumbling is killing more people is becuase the outside world happens to be larger. that's like saying if us attacks Jamaica the Jamaican army was wrong to fight back becuase they killed ten times the number of us soldiers than the us killed Japan soldiers before they were deafeated. not taking into account that the us army is thousands of times bigger
@@creeperkingdom3190 The "both side" argument should always take into account that 99% of both Eldia and Marly are clueless peasants. And I definitively didn't say they shouldn't fight back. Total annihilation is not "fighting back". To stay with your example: Are the Jamaicans justified in releasing a zombiekillervirus, that kills everyone except themself in your scenario, instead of sticking to known weapons?
@@saintitchief I understand that just counting numbers is not relevant for morality, but usually morality isn't used to justify genocide. If any casualty is as bad as the rumbling, isn't that morality entirely useless as a basis of action here? You would always get dragged into war, because any escalation is easy to justify: There is always one initial murder or accident that could be used as a justification for infinite retaliation.
@@richardhauer8391 if it's a kill or be killed scenario, you're completely justified in making sure your side is not genocided. Those were the conditions set up in the story.
There is one thing that you both don't consider, which is that aot is a shit story, I know it hurts, after loving the early seasons so much and wanting to understand it's mistery yall couldn't accept that post time skip aot is a shit show of plot holes and contradictions. But invaderz idea is probably the one that's closest to the auther's intentions. as for morality I can safely say that your take should be barried to the ground. The fact that if what eren did is right is up for debate proves that this story was shit. As if opressed people would resort to genociding their opressors, not only is it stupid but also dangerous.
As someone who liked the ending (wasnt perfect but I think it's eay overhated), what do you all expect to happen after Eren killed the entire world? It not like Paradis would prosper. Yeah they would be at peace for a while. Perhaps even for the rest of Erens and friends' lives, but T some point human will find a way to go to war and have conflict. Not even telling about those final pages, but hell even before the War with Marley Paradis was in a state of turmoil within itself, a classistic society that worked to snuff out anything out of line and after the coup it became Militaristic leadership. The island is far from from a perfect state and the Rumbling would have destroyed literally all possibility of them being able to properly advance in the way they wanted to. They would stunt their growth again. And if you look at the final pages, I think its clearly a war with Paradis and another country, but do I think this is a war that is being fought over the same issues and conflicts? Not at all. The final pages and the destruction of the future society was at least a hundred years after AoT if not more. They probably found something else to fight about as countries do. Either way my point is that thinking the Rumbling would be a catch all solution for peace is ridiculous. No matter how you look at it, Eren had at least some selfish goals in the Rumbling. I think that driving force was his hatred, which he never had real outlet for. Like even though Zeke and Eren were two pieces that wouldnt really cooperate with the best intentions, iij think that using the rumbling to attack the ports, weaken the enemy militaries to allowww for actual peace talks would become the basis. Because if its within the founders power to get rid of the power of the titans in general then use that as a negotiation piece. Just use small rumblings and military tactics to give yourselves advantage and standing ground in the world. In the end they were never given the time to do that or have any real plan to come to fruition because Eren ran away and they were forced to cooperate with his terms. If anything Eren took away their opportunity for proper actions to br be taken. So whilst Eren does has justifications for what he did, by NO means was it his only option. There were other ways to go about things. Trying to kill every single person outside the walls is just an evil decision even if it was made with the best intentions. He took away the freedom of innocent people. Theres no justifying that.
There will always be violence so don’t bother. Thats your argument? What was his other options? Hope that the world doesn’t kill them? Even though they already tried twice and were still planning on doing it again? Thats not really a great option.
No, like I said, what they should have done was attack their militaries and ports to make it where they couldn't attack them? And then use that as a spring board for peace talks. The entire eradication of everybody was not a necessity. They defend themselves and attack their militaries. Not their civilians. There was no need whatsoever to kill that many people. Yes it would have been effective in protecting Paradis, does not mean it was a good thing to do. Especially since it involved killing innocent people..
@@carbon1330 Yes again thats just a hope. Killing their military doesn’t guarantee that they won’t retaliate in the future, its simply hoping they won’t.
Since when did eren care about peace shit? In the very first season he literally said uniting humanity against you sounds naive. He was FIFTEEN then. Eren already knew stopping wars forever is impossible no matter what you do, before getting to the basement and kissing Historia's hand. After that he made sure of it even more. Did you forget what eren said in sea scene, in shooting scene, in liberio basement one, table one? What about "I'll take away the freedom of those who try to take mine away" (was he a pretender when he said that?)? Eren's goal was never to bring peace to the world. It was Armin's (naive) dream. All eren wanted was to protect the island from the outside danger (chapters 122, 130 and 131 prove that as objectively the best ones in aot) and he would have succeeded if he did the 100-% genocide. He would have protected historia, her children, paradis and even his friends. All they needed to do was to stay on the island and wait. Like hell he could save the world from conflicts with killing 80 % of it, creating Yeagerist organisation the members of which hate it the most and after attacking one of the cities. Besides, he saw armin trying to talk to others, allies and enemies. Did it work? No. Did hizuru help them somehow? No. Did hange come up with something as a leader of the survey corps (and she had 4 years for it)? Already no solution What about 2000-year hate between eldians and other nations, the fact they are potential monsters which can be used by anyone for any ambitions or use their power themselves for endangering and threatening humanity? Or about the agreement between tyburs and carl fritz marley broke itself? If they didn't, eren wouldn't have done the rumbling because he couldn't see a good reason for it (carla's death, shiganshina invasion, being forced to leave your home etc.). He probably would have wanted to find another solution, maybe the same armin or zeke had. But that didn't happen. The only way to save his homeland is to get rid of the world's hate towards his people, to kill everyone on the continent Eren could careless if paradis would be involved into a civil war. Chapter 139 showed there already was a conflict (between historia (I don't know how she remained the queen) and Yeagerists) on the island + it was preparing for another collision with those 20 %. What's the difference between civil war and ordinary one? None. People die here and there
The ending was asscheeks. Rumbling was the only way. The outside world tried to take away Eren and paradis' freedom, what's ur point? Innocent ppl died on Paradis' too. Dont like it? Get rumbled.
As someone who used to defend the ending, was the rumbling really needed to protect Paradis? I mean Eren had full control of millions of colossal titans. Couldn't he just invade all the countries and take over their military bases? Clearly the world had no hope in stopping the rumbling else 80% of the populations wouldn't have been crushed. After invading all the countries, have Eren pass down his founding titan to one of the Yeagerists so on and so forth. It's not foolproof, there would still be plenty of causalities, and the plan does require someone with royal blood. However, worse case scenario would be forcing Historia's decedents to reproduce and possible be permanently spliced with whoever was holding the founding titan. The Eldian empire lasted for over 1700 years before falling to Marley. Even then, the only reason they were able to do so was because Karl Fritz condemned his people to an island for the sins of his ancestors. This was a terrible decision. Not only were the eldians trapped on an island, terrorized by the titanized forms of their kin, but the rest of the world was in constant fear of someone like Eren coming along and crushing the world. Karl Fritz should have taken responsibility for the actions of his ancestors, and built a better empire. Instead, he created a situation were no peaceful outcomes could happen. Eren would disagree with this plan since it requires shackling the royal family, but that's a different conversation. If we're talking strictly morally, I don't see why establishing a new empire wouldn't be best for everyone, of course without enslaving non-eldians. It's not a perfect solution, but its better than the genocide of the world or the eldians. Anyway, that's just my opinion. Feel free to give me some counterpoints.
the choice was rumble or gamble on your life. considering the rest of the world wants to kill paradis more than ever before, its really really dumb to gamble.
@@saintitchief Just because they want to kill the eldians doesn't mean they have the ability to. Suppose Eren does just invade the countries using the colossal titans. What could the world do? Marly and the Mid-East Allied Forces just finished a 5 year long war. Marley's military was particularly weak considering Eren's attack during the festival. If they could fight against this supposed invasion, then how come they weren't able to defend themselves against the rumbling? Why couldn't Eren use the rumbling strategically, rather than resorting to genocide?
@@_EQ_ because Zeke would only allow him to use it right now. It was now or never, or he’d have to sacrifice Historia. He didn’t have time to use it strategically. He was going to die soon and Zeke way before.
@@saintitchief I don't understand your point. Eren had full control of the founding titan after he touched Zeke. My point is that Eren could have used the titans more strategically. He only needs to use the founder one time in order to invade the world. Eren's setup for gaining control of the founder is the same. The only thing that's changing is how he's using it. 80% of the worlds population was wiped within days of the activation. Eren could easily invade and occupy the world with colossal titans in a month timeframe. I don't see why either Zeke's or Eren's term limit is a problem.
@Manvëru It's true that Eren doesn't know where all the military bases are in the world, but he should know where most of Marley's. In Ch. 132 Yelena explains how to use the partial rumbling in case its needed. Eren should have a good idea of where the military bases are. She even goes on to say, "I think this attack will be more than enough if we're able to do just that to every major nation." For the other countries, it'll take a little surveying. We saw in the manga that the colossal titans were spread across the world, they weren't just focus on one spot. So Eren could just spread them out when searching for them. As for avoiding crushing people, it'll be easy enough to avoid major towns and cities. Eren was able to do avoid the districts within Paradis, so he should be able to do the same with other countries. There will still be causalities, especially if some bases are in towns or cities. Considering the alternative is genocide, I think they'll take what they can get. As side note. I looked it up, Eren has around 585,000 titans not millions like I previously thought .
Sometimes we forget that Attack on Titan is just a wonderful story. However, we tend to compare the story to "real life", but it is NOT real life, it's a story! Hajime Isayama wrote the story, and the ending is his alone, like it or not! It is what it is, and nothing will change the ending! Isayama is a master of storytelling. I'll say that if someone could write something better (doubtful), step up! I might be a fan? Now my point, since many are making "real life" comparisons with AOT , I have to ask the question - In "real life" (historically) has there ever been a justification for genocide? NO! Thus the ending suits me fine! ❤
I always felt Erens admission about how humans existing outside the wall was something he could not accept and he just wanted to wipe it all away said all there was to be said. Yes, as an author Isayama didn’t give enough alternatives but Eren still would’ve been obsessed with this warped view point because how dare anyone else break his dream of exploring the world. He didn’t tell Ramzi “I wanted to wipe it all away because I was given no other choice” no, he admitted at his core it was because the world wasn’t like he’d envisioned it. That would’ve remained regardless.
Same thing can b said about gabi and the rest of the world, she said they came to slaughter not defend. Eren’s clearly defending himself in this situation. And if eren never transformed they all would’ve died.
“This island. It’s to save Eldia” that’s what Eren said to ramzi when explaining why he was doing the rumbling. Why do you ignore that? Why do you think he can only do something for one reason? He wanted to do the rumbling to achieve freedom AND save his people
@@hankkingofmischief4372 “The island, it’s to save Eldia, but it’s more than that. When I learned that humanity lived beyond the walls, I was so disappointed. I wished for it, I wanted to wipe it all away” Saving Eldia was nothing more than a lie he told everyone because he was too ashamed to admit what it was really all about. Why do you think he chose to say these words to someone who could not understand him?
@@t-ro6176 It’s not about transforming, it’s what he did after transforming. The Eldians weren’t the only oppressed people in the world, that was made abundantly clear.
@@O.Z.K185 he was not ashamed to admit what it was about he literally explained the entire reason. To save Eldia and achive freedom. You people can’t read!
Bro . Chapter 139 deliberately stated that Eren wanted to destroy the world . He even put the picture in the video when he stated it . When will you stop believing what you want and actually reading what the story is stating . Sheesh….
You're citing a retcon for a silly point 💀 Comparing a whole story of buildup (which supports the fact Eren did the rumbling in self defense rather than a stupid book) to one chapter that destroys all the build up and still picking the one retcon chapter shows your bias And even if we took 139 seriously, when Armin asked why Eren did the rumbling, he literally says he doesnt know. WhErEs YoUr BoOk NoW?
@@ThatAsianGuy68 "citing a retcon" This has to be the dumbest argument by retarded aot fans with no proof,just pure speculations of trust me bro,eren's nature to do certain actions was not just a ch139 thing,it's been there from like first arc when armin asks why he wants to venture the outside world,he was shaped by people around him but his nature serves a main component in defining his actions,just like in ch121 when zeke asks him "why do you oppose to ending the conflict,what do u want to do with power of freedom",if he had a clear goal in mind like u guys say that he was doing it all for eldia but his face said completely different and his answer was "ever since I was born I have always been me" again reflecting on his nature to do what he does,and I'm not saying it's all coz of his nature thats totally false eren himself was pushed by the world to do what he did,he himself was trying to escape the future he saw but gave into it when he realised there was no other way At this point I'm seriously done with this topic and I won't argue further coz none of the sides of this fandom are open minded be it defenders or haters
Had to stop listening 20 minutes in. a) you don’t even let him finish his points before you pause and start disagreeing. It’s clear from the beginning of the video based on you refuting the TITLE ALONE that you were not primed to listen with an open mind or in good faith. b) your refutes are laced with emotionally inflamed language/generalisations to distort and manipulate what Invaderzzz points are. For example, Invanderzzz stating that the 50 year plan was preferable to the Rumbling does not equal supporting King Fritz. It goes within saying that Paradis does NOT support the acts of cannibalisation/eating family members, they simply have no alternative at this point that is more humane. They are working within the limits of the hell King Fritz created, and this is very different to actively supporting him. A side note, you stated King Fritz is the most vile, evil character in the entire story. While his extreme acts of subjugation and violence are incredibly evil, and his plan to have children in his blood line consume their family time is horrific, he is NOT the most evil character in the story. That title goes to EREN, because while Fritz has some notches in his belt, claiming the lives of more than 1 billion innocent people, wiping out the planets ecosystems and erasing centuries of human culture/advancements will ALWAYS be worse. There is NO COMPARISON. The 50 year plan was imperfect, but it bought them time and possibilities for diplomacy while sparing as many lives as possible. Jumping to wiping out the planet would never be the first or best option, but it’s the one Eren chose because in his words- he simply “wanted to” due to his childish “disappointment” that the world was something far more complex than he’d ever imagined and a place he would have to share with those outside the walls.
@@TheAmyBryans lol but seriously, i get your point there, but keep in mind this was a live reaction in which i was going off the top of my head while also trying to keep it entertaining for 200+ people. if you want my less reactionary, well constructed response to this argument, check out this video, 15 mins long. ruclips.net/video/uGSG1ZCjwk4/видео.html if you watch it all, comment what you think there and i’ll respond
Did you ignore the whole story? You really think Eren just killed everyone outside the walls just because they existed? Isayama himself literally disproved this point.
Nah, the whole King Fritz point automaticly refute your comparison to Eren! The main difference is that KF did his action out of conquest and indulgence! Eren did what he did for his own people! Stop the cap!
@@aDsnow leveraging the threat of the Rumbling or the resources in Paradis to negotiate peace talks, a grand show of power to decimate the anti Eldian allied army, trade deals etc. etc.
I personally think after decimating the united army they can get the world into some kind of negotiation I mean that would be a major financial loss for all the major powers in the world and additionally Eldia could have threatened Marley with selling their resources to their enemies afterwards etc. etc.
Hearing the words "Genocide is wrong" changed my life...
I am a 25-year-old man from South Sudan, I have spent most of my life in a continuous war, it was a normal day two weeks ago as I was fighting. Then, me and my brothers watched Attack on Titan Season 4 Part 2 Episode 9 and heard the character of Hange say "Genocide is wrong", we then began to all put our guns down and perform a ceremonial dance of peace with our enemies. Thank you, Hange Zoe, and thank you Hajime Isayama. This quote changed my life. My entire view of everything that exists in this world, in fact, even in the entire universe. I can never look at anything I know the same way again. This dialogue represents emotions that most humans could never understand. But I can. In the future historians will look back on this scene and regard it as the pinnacle of human achievement. I rate this episode 10 African tribes/10 African tribes, and will never watch it again as every time I get saddened by the fact that there will never be such dialogue to match this masterpiece.
lol yeah the more and more i hear that line the more i start to realize how bad it is.
it may very well be the single worst line of dialogue in anything i’ve ever seen.
its such an insult to your audience, as if we didn’t know that already, and isayama talks to us like we’re children who need scolding, after giving us such a deep and well told complicated story about war and genocide and expecting us to pick up on the most subtle of subtle subtext, to then slap us in the face with that message, as if to say that all critical thinking up to that point was meaningless because his opinion on the matter (given to us through hange) is all that matters.
every single character she was saying that to knew it was wrong, and so did the audience, so what was the point? its just a flat out disrespectful piece of writing that i’m honestly shocked that any writer would ever put in a story like this.
Am loving this new copypasta lmao
What you did is haram, self defense is halal
@@phl40p copypasta
The children in the forest speech was already enough to tell us this situation is bad, we don't need literal Nick Jr preach talk from a hypocrite about genocide to understand ugh
Invaderzz did (not) read Attack on titan
You including your fandom did not read aot at all. Yall read ANR
@@eveegirl2878 k girl
@@eveegirl2878 you probably haven’t read it withers
@@eveegirl2878 Why tf would you think one would read ANR BEFORE AoT??
@@eveegirl2878 Okay, shut up K Pop girl.
invaderzz favorite argument: "Just trust me."
Trust me bro!
His fan's favourite argument is "you didn't understand the story *links Invaderzz video* ". It is like a vicious cycle of stupidity
That's what they said about the COVID vaccine.
Thats your Fandom in a nutshell. Ending haters in one sentence. If you actually watch the video or even read the manga you would understand
@@eveegirl2878 Girls like you give other girls a bad rep.
Again, invaderz ignored the 8 pages (Paradis destroyed)
the 8 pages are (not) canon
@@As_Expected_of_Pieck They are literally printed in with the final volumes lol.
@@ArcherBlades It's a joke
@@ozren8917 Regardless the ending proved the Rumbling was right. And it's sad that the Paradisians of The Alliance couldn't see that because they didn't care.
He already wrote somewhere that there is no evidence that it was the world that destroyed Paradise. So he's from the civil war camp.
Didn't Historia already said that Eren was right about the only way this war will end is for one side shall stand and the other side wipeout in the end? So even after 50 years had pass Paradis was still at war with the world so Eren did fail to bring peace to paradis, even when they were discussing peace treaties, they were still at war
Eren never learn. Every time he trust his comrades something bad happens. Just like in capturing female titan arc when squad levi got wiped
@@miguelcarillo4388 I blame isayama for that shit
Did you actually expect that any of erens actions would bring peace?
@@nerevarchthn6860 Yeah, destroying whole world is the only way to save Paradis
@@theoldestdream27 nope its not dont be so delusional kid fanboy
Another problem I have with ending defenders is that they always say “everyone was against erens plan” when the main people against his plans were 1) obviously the enemies and 2) like what? 10 people from paradise? (Mikasa, armin, hange, Jean and Connie (who was manipulated by armin and hange) and like those hand full of people in the aftermath of the collapse wall who were just pissed about their family dying from the wall, not actually the people being killed outside the wall. So discounting the worlds military and politics which carriers the image of their countries, and are the enemies narrative wise, all we got as paridise folks who opposed wrens true plan were like 10-12 people.
Yup 10-12 people who holds no credible weight in Paridise anymore speaks for the entirety of paradise. Makes sense 🙂
Have never seen any ending defender say that but if you think eren was right then you are hella stupid
they always love to forget that the yeagerists had the support of the people on the island who also supported the rumbling.
Most people belived that any other people than whites where subhuman I guess they where right. Good logic there pal.
the classic "drown the audience out with long dialogue/mental gymnastics, then get to the point to distract/convince them" tactic. lmfao
Does he not remember reading erens inner monologue where he is telling himself that maybe the world would be at peace if eldia & titans were to be Eliminated….but I can’t accept it! He’s not saying that cause “I can’t accept it cause I want to destroy the world lmao. He’s saying it because he can’t accept seeing his people aka everyone he’s ever loved be slaughtered for shit their ancestors did hundreds of years ago that’s why.
Funny thing is that Eren had already seen the future and knew that none of this bullshit was gonna work and that's why he was depressed
WHY DOES EVERYONE FORGET THISSSSS
no he just wanted to destroy the world dummy 🤓
YOU DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE STORY!!!!!!!!!111111
He saw the future but not all, for example he did not know that Willy Tybur was not the holder of the Warhammer titan.
For whatever reason, he only saw parts of that future that was already written.
But the last arc is dogshit xD
why would he be depressed? He enjoys killing people🤓
-He wanted to destroy the world
Top 3 dumbest AoT takes ever
Ending defendeurs have more than just 3 dumbest takes, i could make a tierlist
how is that a dumb take... eren literally says in 139 that he would've destroyed the world even if it wasn't for his friends
@@grant2707 saying he wanted to do it cause he's disappointed that it wasn't a blank space it's stupid
@@grant2707 no shit, because the rest of the world would always want the genocide of the 'island devils', friends or not.
The context matters. If no one had attacked his home, Eren would have absolutely no reason to stomp out all life beyond the ocean. It was driving of his character.
But with the power of Paths and the Attack Titan, he knows his people will always face persecution and forever live with the risk of being genocided. Whether it be nuked in the future or now, Eren cannot erase 2000 years of Eldian hatred. So he takes matters into his own hands. If Eren was so for genocide, he would not be so conflicted (Ch.131). He doesn't want to, but he has no choice if he wants his people to survive (he fails at this).
@@spartanchief2 then why do you think the entire story there's these (seemingly) out of place lines about erens nature and "i was born like this"... Wouldn't those lines be out of place if what i was saying was false?
What I hate about these videos is that the all say the same thing, that the rumbling is bad because its bad. They don't give any new real solutions to the whole problem and instead they just elaborate why the prexisting plans like the 50 yr pland and the Euthanasia plan could work. If you gonna say the rumbling is bad, then you have to come with your own alternative to problem and not explain somebody else plans on the matter. This is and only is the way you can successfully convience people that the rumbling didn't need to happen.
The only ways they can give new options is to use headcanons
Same thing for people saying the rumbling is good your side is no different
@@nerevarchthn6860 The Rumbling isn’t good, but EREN didn’t have any better options for what HE wanted to achieve. All the audience’s expectations & hopes are inconsequential. From Eren’s perspective, who he was, what he experienced, what he found important leads to his actions. The audience is not needed to agree or disagree with Eren, but to understand why he did what he did. We are not needed to defend the Rumbling, but to feel whatever we feel from it. If you’re mad, you feel something. Isayama did his job.
@@nerevarchthn6860 How are you guys so dumb? Literally nobody says the rumbling is good. This is why nobody takes you guys serious, you're just not intelligent enough to formulate competent thoughts.
@@nerevarchthn6860 No, not even close
I like the idea that Eren had to gigamind manipulate everyone to activate his "evil desire to kill the world" when he literally could have just pretended to go along with the 50 year plan, which was literally to activate a small scale rumbling anyways, and then just do the whole rumbling then instead.
The thing is, that plan would imply to sacrifice Historia. We saw that Eren was against it because in order to have control of the beast Titan The MP's we're planning to feed Zeke as soon as possible to Historia. Eren oppose the idea because he didn't trust the MP's would wait until the first Rumbling was completed, because they themselfs didn't trust Zeke, so he had to consider going with Zeke's plan so Historia wouldn't be sacrificed.
@@andrewvazquez9557 this
@@andrewvazquez9557 Also we can't forget that Eren himself only has, at best, 4 years of his life remaining. So even if he went along with that plan, it wouldn't even be him executing it.
@@andrewvazquez9557 which would be perfectly fine as a reason if the curse of Ymir couldn’t just be eliminated after it, which would then let Historia live a long live regardless…
This is a certified 139 moment
@@lmaono1356 Yes, I forgot to mention this theory of mine would only make sense if 138 and 139 don't exist. Which is when Isayama decided to throw the manga down the toilet like it was trash.
The 50 year plan is horrible for a myriad of reasons, but most of all, because there is a substantial amount of unknown factors. For one, it requires the total and utter compliance of Historia's children. Not only condemning them to live as cattle, but also, possibly forcing them to enact a Rumbling. If even one of the children, in 50 years, were to revolt, disagree, or abandon the plan, the fate of Paradis is doomed.
Irregardless of that fact, Hizuru is at best, an unreliable ally. As shown, Kiyomi is not interested in Paradis for noble alliance, but rather, for greed: iceburst stone. It is highly likely that Hizuru will be the profiteer--buying it from Paradis, and inflating the price to sell to other nations. After a small scale Rumbling, no nation in the outside World will trade with Paradis: Hizuru will necessitate that trade. Hizuru would also most benefit in killing either the The Royal Beast Titan or the holder of The Founding Titan. In betraying Eldia, they would become the sole processor of iceburst stone, and create alliances with much stronger nations.
The 50 year plan also fails in terms of diplomacy. Before a small scale Rumbling, the worst fears and nightmares of the outside World were only fueled by racism and speculation, but now, they have justification for their hate and vitriol. While an 80% Rumbling at least bides time for technological advancement, a small scale Rumbling will only fuel the invention of more powerful and evolved anti-titan weaponry. Where an 80% Rumbling would eradicate the supply chain, flattening factories, manufacturers, and industries, a small scale one would only threaten. The entire outside World would now be aligned even more than before, with a significantly higher population than Eldia and a head start of 100 years. The 50 year plan also requires the power of the Titans; This makes negotiations incredibly difficult. Who would possibly sit at a table with Armin, the holder of The Colossal Titan?
The distrust inside of Paradis would also be something to consider, as the Yeagerists would be heavily opposed to the 50 year plan. Meanwhile, the secrecy and protection of The Royal Beast Titan and the Founder would sow seeds of doubt in the public eye. The alterior motives of The Royal Family, The Yeagerists, and Hizuru all conflict with the 50 year plan. If even one of these were to fail, so does the entirety of the plan. Alliances between The Royal Family and the Yeagerists or Hizuru and the outside World pose major threats. The presumption that Paradis survives even 50 years with this plan is unlikely.
While the 80% plan is equally infuriating and nonsensical, it at the very least, in theory, forces Hizuru's loyalty, allows for the possibility of diplomacy, and buys Eldia time to advance technologically. Regardless, the only guarantee for Paradis' survival is a 100% Rumbling.
And Eren doesn’t even know where each and every military in the world is.
We already see that the world had the tech to destroy a couple of titans. Does he not think that in at most 2 years the world, all coming together like they did in Liberio, would build something strong and capable enough of destroying colossals en masse?
One thing I've always found odd was Historia's willingness to inherit the Beast Titan and thus force the burden of Titan inheritance onto her descendants. That's exactly what her father tried to do to her in the Uprising Arc and she doesn't even acknowledge that fact. She just decides to go along with it because.........reasons. All the 50 year plan would've accomplished anyway is kicking the can further down the road until one side completely destroyed the other so it wouldn't even be worth it for the island's safety for Historia to go along with the plan.
@@teamtx1578 that “Krista” persona was kicking in
1)The first point about historia is valid. But i dont see why logically speaking the children of historia would betray eldia. There wouldnt by any future for them if they wanted to betray. They would just die at the hands of the world. They would (most likely) be in a situation where they are forced to follow along. I mean i am pretty sure they want to survive. So ur criticism , even though valid, is not going to pose much issue.
2)Its not realistic to ask for any "noble alliance" be it in our wold or theirs. Every nation is out there for their interests. The fact that Hizuru want to even talk with the islanders is a noble deed. Now the small scale rumbling works but for the exact opposite reason as u mentioned. The fact that paradis DIDN'T destroy the world even though they very well could will ease the possibility for negotiations and peace talks. I mean its simple, eren soft rumbles and destroys the global military alliance and the major military bases of the world. Now yelena has stated that with the military of a nation gone , it can very well enter into a state of economic depression. Also, once soft rumbled , the world will be forced to enter into negotiations with paradis island(It can even happen that paradis will by contract limit the military advancement of a bunch of nations - paradis will limit their military size and production of weapons- if the disagree they will be rumbled- so they are forced to agree). Paradis can DEMAND money , resources and technology from the major nations(like say the mid east alliance). The world will have to comply or else they get wiped out.
Now in the time they get from the small rumbling , through right diplomacy, paradis can gain many allies in smaller nations around the world. This can be done by making them business partners (there is a large cache of fossil fuels beneath paradis + ice burst stone + other natural resources on paradis) . Paradis can in exchange ask for researches and scientists who can work for them in advancing their military might and money as well. Also many smaller nations can be turned against marley (Eldia can show their cooperation and desire to bring freedom and justice to those lands) who has oppressed them for decades(This can be eased out a bit because of the anti-marleyan volunteers).
3)I agree with the internal conflicts between the yeagerists and the govt in paradis. Its unknown how they can deal with that. More transparency ig (to deal with public distrust).
All in all , i dont think that its as hopeless and u make it sound to be. IF paradis can manage the production of WMDs(like nuclear warheads) in the 40 to 50 yr time period they get and make some allies around the globe and still have the threat of the rumbling , I dont think they will necessarily get wiped out. Their chances arent the best but its possible with the right diplomacy( dont send armin maybe top military leaders like pyxis etc).
Invaderz video update: He changed the title from “do not defend the rumbling” to “This video will change the way you see the rumbling.” Basically admitting defeat lol.
He's now changed it to "The Rumbling is Indefensible", and his thumbnail says "Do not defend the rumbling". lol
@@roukerasati9611 invaderz can’t make up his mind lol. I wonder how many dislikes it has now lol
L
I still wasn’t convinced on his previous video, and I’m not convinced now. If anything, it makes me hate the ending more and sad for Eren’s assassination
The biggest thing I hate about long ass recap videos that rarely every gets to the point until later in the video is the fact that the creator of the video tires out the viewer with bluff so that when they bring up their main point, the average viewer was so manipulated by a recap that the speaker must “obviously know what they’re talking about and must be right cuz they used up 20-30 mins of my time filling it up with shit that in hindsight most of the time did not fit the narrative” and although there’s time saint can go a bit overboard in some videos, he does a great job of holding down the fort of viewer exhaustion to call absolute bullshit, as he did once Invaderzz brought up his “objective” reasons of why the 50 year plan is best (starting at 15:00). Invaderzz basically said “the 50 years is best because it is” with not much of a backing from that 15 min recap other then speaking on why the plan he despises wasn’t a plan to him, and saint smelled that shit from across the ocean of paridise
Also a big thing ending defenders in the comments and Reddit are keep bringing up is the environmental aftermath of the disruption from the rumbling. Ofcourse we know that in real life because we’re back by the history of real world examples; we can’t shun erens actions on what’s to come on that fate because ain’t no way that mf would know that it would that destroy all of paridise due to that fate because the story wasn’t written for for him to know what issue that would cause to paridise a lot of it stemming from his (i don’t know/only yimir knows) line. He also states in the last chapter to armin that it will flatten to land to soil and and Shit, even at 80%. 80%, 100%, 60%, it doesn’t fucking matter, numbers past the 50% will cause an obscene amount of climate devastation for its surrounding parties, the story just didn’t write that as an issue in their story because 80% should have ruined the environment without a doubt. Yes, it’ll cause a Shit future for paradise, but the point of eren motive was to give his friends and his people freedom by wiping that history of hatred of the map outside the walls, not, “how would they survive the environmental damage after” the story didn’t even make that a narrative
plus they would be on an island completely removed and unaffected by it
@@saintitchief not entirely the lack of forest would bring up co2 levels and bring down oxygen levels for a couple of years but it is not nearly as bad as ending defenders are making it seem.
the problem would sort it self out in like one hundred years and the island people would probably suffer some mild oxygen deprivation for a short time before plant return in mass.
It's not like the oxygen already in the air is just going to suddenly disappear.
@@creeperkingdom3190 big boss, we’re speaking on the fact that the story written itself to be that paridise would be fine with a completely flatten world (even doe we the audience know it wouldn’t it it was taken seriously) because all that you listed should still happen with 80% of the land and people wipped out. The story written itself to have no affect from environmental damage, therefore with this logic in the story, then staying on paridise will be fine
@@creeperkingdom3190 Why would Eren Rumble Forests? I think it is pretty stupid if he had to do that. He is only trying to remove humans outside the walls mainly his enemies. There is no need for him to rumble the jungles and forests and desserts where there is literally no one. The environment argument is as dumb as any. It is also why I think there could have been some survivors outside the walls (Secret/remote places, Underground bunkers etc) We also don't know the founder's full ability but if it can create life and "plant crops" which some people have theorised for AoE then that solves that issue. A reach but plausible
@@creeperkingdom3190 most of the oxygen is made by plankton and algee in the oceans, paradise would not be affected at all
invaderzz recaps more than the anime used to in Season 1. Remember that? When you had to wait about 3 minutes to get to the actual episode!!
worth it to see that glorious animation again
@@saintitchief wit season 1 is peak animation in all seasons.
Maybe zeke vs best levi is the best but in general has the best animation.
@@Lumigle nahhh season 2
@@kory.j6561 season 2 is peak too, well said xD
@@kory.j6561 Seasons 1 Peak Animation and Direction.
Season 2 Peak Art and Visuals
Invaderzz: "It just works."
He covered up and tried to trick the viewer with his long recap and didn't provide actual evidence as to why you shouldn't support the rumbling
Just listed the same things we been told and he also used alot of head canon on things that were left up to interpretation
Eren did not souly want to destroy the World he lost faith in humanity ever thinking about making peace the rumbling was his last resort to a situation where there was no better outcome due to the circumstances of the story
Exactly what he did with his Eren is not free video or whatever it's called he just tells you to swallow his interpretation to try to convince you into his point of view
@@amrmans2 saddest part is MILLIONS believe him lmfao
@@talladega7560 LITERALLY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
Would you guys happen to know if Isayama's statement about School castes being canon is true? Because otherwise Isayama literally confirms it himself
@@furiousdestroyah9999 How does a statement from Isayama change anything in the debate? Arguments are based on what is seen/written in the manga. Outside sources are irrelevant.
1:00:16 This is litteraly what I said lol. Like peoples are saying "Eren forced them"... they could of just not rescue Eren but they knew that if they let Eren dies the Island was screwed.
The alliance already proved they were hypocrites right there.
An ongoing problem is that invaderzz rambles on recapping events in the story, without really explaining how it relates to his point. It feels like he's reading off the Wikia, in his monotone voice that sounds like he's bored.
Invaderz is a weirdo fr
The Rumbling is basically my foot fetish going beserk, I will defend it out of sheer horniness and Invaderzz will not stop me!
The ultimate chad argument
Grisha stops Eren from genocide he himself wanted Eren to do...ok invaderz
you just didn’t understand man
@@Liaison_Verequiem did i ask?
@@Liaison_Verequiem YOU didn't understand like most ending defenders
"rumbling Is his hobby" I died 🤣
37:22 dude i laughed so hard on your reaction 😂, its exactly what annoys me too!
"Eren wanted to destroy the world from the very beginning" Oh yeah, I forgot in chapter 1 when Eren says "I don't get why people won't let us talk about the outside world. All I said was that I wanted to destroy it. damn"
Thank you for reacting to this video saintitchief because omg. I couldn't do that alone.
Invaderzz did (not) understand the story
He's just an ending defender
With similar intelligence levels as them
Isayama compares his AOT ending with the Mist movie's ending. The Mist movie's ending if when the father kills his son and three friends to prevent them from being killed by the monsters. 2 minutes later, the mist clears and the military passes by the father along with the people who stayed behind in the supermarket due to their fear of going outside. The father cried in sadness due to how they would've been saved if the father hadn't committed the murder.
I believe that if the Scouts actually went to the Tybur estate to talk with Willy Tybur regarding Paradis Island's wish for peace. Willy would've granted them it. The whole point of Willy's arc is to show how he wants to end Marley's military expansionism and prevent Paradis' retribution. He would've gladly helped the Scouts if they agree to destroy the colossal titans. In other words, Hange's idea was reasonable and it baffles me why they didn't just talk to the world leaders. This is evident when most of the world leaders were shocked that Karl Fritz was the true hero who saved the world nations from ancient Eldia's occupations.
The world nations hate Marley but respect the Tybur Family. They only followed Willy due to how he was truthful to them and because of his family name.
The son had to be sacrificed.
"I'm going to put a stop to this. I'm going to kill 80% of ALL THE TITANS!"
Invaderzz and the 3 million people and EMs who watched that video and supported it are indescribably delusional. But I guess making an hour and a half video bringing up stupid excuses and philosophies to defend the manga, including ignoring the extra pages makes it logical, right?
NNNNNNNNNNNOPE
That is your fucking opinion.
Uhhh did you mean "this video will change how you see the rumbling"? No, I'm sorry that's the wrong one. "The rumbling is indefensible" Ah yes that's it!
>wanted to destroy the world
>Didnt turn Historia into a pure titan to activate wall titans the moment Zeke brought injections
Also while knowing titans will be gone
Ok invaderz
I wonder if you ask those defenders if they are willing to sacrifice their families and countries they would say "yes, go ahead"...actually I think they will considering how self-hating they are.
Hey Yoana
Oh yeah let's self-insert ourselves in a fictional story.
Come up with real arguments instead of "Oh they would do *this* in *that* *situation* "
they'd sell their own mother and then gaslight her with "studies" about "the definition of family" to act smug and holier than thou while they do it
None of them are smart enough to put themselves in their shoes. None of them would be willing to die so the rest of the world can feel more comfortable 😂
It's just a show I support the rumbling.
I'd support it in real life too. I'm not dying so the rest of the world can feel more comfortable. Either leave us alone, or prepare for the rumbling. Good job Eren, you have a backbone.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 WWWWW
Is self defense justified? Then the rumbling is justified. Period. Otherwise you are saying you should allow yourself to be sacrificed to the mob. F THAT. Also, remember Commander Erwin stating something like, 'humanity will know peace when our numbers will fall to one or zero'. That's the backdrop of Eren's decision. Any decision would eventually end with the world trying to wipe out the Eldians.
You bumbed into me so I rape your entire family and kill them self defense tho. Selfdefense isn't justified if its exessive they teach you that in school and its a law.
@@samuelclayhills3298 the entire world wanted them dead. Your analogy is bullshit.
Basically dont support the rumbling but support threatning people with it and if they attack u can use the rumbling :) WHICH THEY DID they keep attacking paradise
Invaderzz : Do not defend the Rumbling 🤓
Invaderzz : Whatever happened in the manga is driven by circumstances (80%)
Me : Isn't that hypocritical to say do not defend the Rumbling while defend what happened in the manga which is 80%? Is it me getting dumber or is it Invaderzz being a hypocrite? 🤔
They are just coping i think he overdosed in copium
About that environmental problem that ending defenders like to bring up, I wouldn't worry for the Paradisians honestly. I mean, the manga told us Ymir could change the biology of her subjects until they were proven able to survive to a pandemic. So yeah, not to worry. It wouldn't matter in the world where Eren didn't stop at 80%.
And even with an 80% Rumbling and a pandemic, Paradis could keep itself safe from being nuked by selling face masks and toilet paper to the outside world. It worked for Ch- *BANNED FROM THE INTERNET*
What ? No, you can’t just evolve m organism to survive massive droughts, floods, hurricanes & mass crop failures, you stupid eco-fascists maniacal fucks
I actually really, really loved the moral complexity of the show. Morality in itself is actually an interesting topic, because there is often not an objective right and wrong. It's why there's more than 1 way to try a person for murder. It's also why it's alright to kill someone in self defense. What is right and what is wrong is a mix of so many factors, situations and perspectives that it really makes it very difficult to nail down
Yeah kill those bastard children
The f*cking Minecraft rumbling thumbnail got me laughing
The flaw of the invaderz video is he's demonizing the characters to really emphasize his point just as much how people that defend the rumbling see the alliance as dummies because they didn't think of everything. The story presented the conflict as hopeless and that eren and the gang are in the depths of despair and the only solution is to kill everyone but despite how hopeless it may be, it wants you to not choose for it. Their reasons we're right but the actions they take are not. The whole message of the story is to keep trying no matter how hopeless it may be and accept humanity's flaw because just how it is. The world is not just cruel and violent but it's also full of beauty. People take the story differently because it's just a matter of perspective, people that only see the cruelty (Eren, Floch, Zeke) and the people that see the beauty in it (Armin, Mikasa). The story shows us that people can be changed no matter how indiscriminate they are towards people at Paradis, we see this with nicollo, Reiner, gabi, and magath.
When will people realize that pseudo-philosophical Facebook statuses are worthless? You can write as many beautiful words as you like, but they mean nothing if a gun is pointed to the heads of you and your family.
And yes, of the 4 "changed people" only Niccolo became peaceful towards the Eldians. The other three both killed before "redemption arc" and continued after.
You hit the nail on the head. The Rumbling IS wrong, but there isn't a clear alternative presented in the story.
Think about FMAB, here. That nailed the aspect that, even though Mustang and the Armestrians were the good guys, they would still be war criminals after the Homunculi were defeated.
So, the scouts met a dozen good people, big deal, does that mean that everyone else can change? And I'll tell you why a lot of people are heartless, cause they once cared too much for humanity and its people (races didn't matter), they were good people and then got backstabbed and taken advantage of cause they showed too much loyalty to humanity's "good", and they're not stupid for not being able to see the "beauty" of it. "Isayama wanted us to hate the rumbling, even though there was no other choice left", then he shouldn't have made this the only possible solution
No matter how "realistic" the ending is supposed to be, the taste in your mouth and many others' is super bitter, especially after eren and armin's character retcons, AND the mikasa and ymir "connection". Mikasa to ymir: "You were the one peeking in my mind", remind me again, how can the founder peek into an ACKERMANN's mind. And also, "Armin, you remember now TOO, don't you, when eren........came to visit us". What do you mean "you too" mikasa, you never forgot anything, unless your memories got erased, therefore MANIPULATED, which is impossible because again, you're an ACKERMANN
Not everybody can be changed... That's the whole reason why Armin's way just doesn't work.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 And that's why the Alliance (CringeAvengers) are dumb and Eren ws ALWAYS right
But defend idiotic Hange and arMONG's plan to sit around and do nothing and just hope nothing bad happens, but they jump up and are ready to go as soon as someones starzs to actually do somethong. So what is Invaderzz defending here ? Racism? It's not our fault that Isayama gave Eren one option... Isayama's ending did just that which is actually confirm that Rumbling was the right optionn so Invaderzz should go knock on his door and nag him on about how its ok to destroy Paradis based on their race but not okay for them to attack back, basically defending themselves for GOOD... and im talking purely about the stuff pre retcon... the 139 doesnt nake any sense storywise to draw any conclusions from rather then some outlandish "pedo abuser stockholm syndrome semantics" and war will never end bs
Lol. Do you really have the time to write all this?
Just get over it
@@ZuhairEDP im actually over it, i dont think about aot no more as of lately
@@deadlyfemboy4289 Yeah at first I didn't notice your username. If I did, I wouldn't have bothered.
I don't normally agree with this youtuber but right here he cooked invaderzz up. It just show how much youtuber are just humans at the end of the day and can be biased. Massive L for invaderzz on this one
37:22 TRUE PAIN bro knew what was coming
And saint's decent in to madness continues 37:49
this shit is funny af
Marley failed its own citizens by starting this war for the purpose of their own greed. Not only did this war not need to happen, they themselves attacked Paradis citizens first with the same brutality as the rumbling. The people that died at Paradis were as innocent and clueless as any of them. Instead of blaming Eren for fighting back with the means that he has, blame Marley who set the tone, refused to stand down and even meant to use to commit the same sins they argue Paradis deserves to be tortured and wiped out for. Ofcourse genocide is fucking wrong. But so is laying down and accepting gross injustice, and especially on behalf of others! Unless all of Paradis held hands and accepted death, noone can accept death for them!
Paradis got nuked by 20% of humanity launching nuclear weapons on them for bloody revenge after the Alliance sabotaged the Rumbling. Lol Eren died for nothing!
@UmQasaann rather die on my feet than live on my knees!
Besides. If Eren's plan failed its because he passed the baton unto Armin to 'negotiate' with Marley. Both in a weakened state and indebted to the heroes that killed Eren, Armin never really managed to negotiate shit, did he 🥸.
Yeah ok, he's wrong about the Faye situation. Faye's death shaped grisha's life moving forward, what made him a restorationist when he found out later on. If faye hadn't died, grisha would've never went to eldia let alone outside marley, he would've never reached paradis and would've never stolen the founder from the royal family. And the rumbling would never happen, because of fritz's vow renouncing war, which in case people forgot, prevents the royal blooded from fully using the founding titan, so it would still be marley that kills faye. What in davy jones's dirty boots he was talking about?
You’re partially right. Yes Faye’s death did lead to Grisha winding up on Paradis and inheriting the Attack Titan. However, it wasn’t the catalyst. If Marley never kicked down the walls, Grisha wouldn’t have stolen the Founder. He would have just lived out the remainder of his days on Paradis - which was exactly what he was doing. The walls were destroyed, threatening the Eldians of Paradis and causing Eren to manipulate Grisha to go through with his plan to steal the Founder.
@@Silver-iixfair enough, that's fine. But was faye's death the cause of the rumbling as a whole, was her death the catalyst?
If not, then invaderzz's argument is void
@@Philthorn Honestly, there are numerous points in the story where the Rumbling could have been prevented. I’d argue that it was the Eldian rights group meeting that made Eren finally go through with the Rumbling, as up until that point he was searching for an alternative. Along with trying to prove that the future he saw could be changed.
Inevitably, it was Marleys lack of sympathy towards the Eldians on Paradis that lead to the Rumbling, as Marley was unwilling to find a diplomatic solution.
@@Silver-iixwe're talking about faye's death, not personal interpretations, but that's enough, let's not take it any further
@@Philthorn You asked if it directly resulted in the Rumbling and I said it didn’t. I then gave you my thoughts on what actually did. 😂 Everything I said is relevant.
Invaderzz, what a man you are!
When he said that eren WANTED to kill, I end myself right there
Babe wake up, new saintitchief video
THERE WAS ALWAYS AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION to the whole conflict between paradis and the outside world which is some of the scouts like armin eren mikasa and hange etc would meet willy tyber and discuss with him paradis's wush for peace then willy would relay their wish to the representatives of the world nations who gathered at liberio after he showed them the truth about carl fritz in the festival then hange will come out and tell the people that she is from paradis and descuss her plan for peace which is eren and historia will activate the founding titan power and unharden the walls and destroy all the wall titans in front of the world representatives at paradis then they will vow to use the founding titan power to communicate with ymir fritz at the paths and convince her to let go of the power of the titans (and the concept of her love for the 1st fritz king is stupid in and of itself)
Then the paradisians are allowed to leave paradis and explore the world and the rest of eldians in internment zones are freed and this is how you end the cycle of hatere
"THERE WAS ALWAYS AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION" No there wasn't....
40:31
Invaderzz clearly forgot Eren's whole philosophy of "Everyone is special because they were born into this world." The words his mother said. This is the reason he rejected the 50-year/Euthanization plan. He believed people were special in birth. Eren found value in living. He didn't want freedom in death like Zeke.
1:05:11
Eren literally said that protecting the future of the island was his goal in chapter 123.
1:06:22
Bro said: "Eren's BETRAYAL of Paradis." LOL
I'm shcleep.
1:20:27
"Perhaps Paradis could've made a bid with the allied nations who opposed Marley."
Invaderzz either didn't or can't read.
Gabi's friend Udo stated: "The rest of the world hates Eldians even more so than Marley does." and "Marley is the "nicest" to Eldians."
That same Marley that fed an innocent little girl to dogs alive.
Paradis weren't making an alliance with anybody. It was never a possibility, and the Declaration of War QUINTUPLE DOWNED on that.
1:24:29
If Faye was never killed, Grisha would have never ventured out of Marley despite his parents pushing him to. If Grisha doesn't go to Paradis, he would've never gotten the Founding Titan and the Founder would've stayed in the Royal family, Eren would never have been born and Paradis would've been destroyed much sooner and the Eldian race would've gone extinct after Marley got the Founder.
What the fuck is Invaderzz yapping about??
"There are 10 rules of history:
1. People are stupid
And that's it, that's all of them" - Lazerpig
Eren: Today I woke up and Choose violence "COMMENCE THE RUMBLING"
What stupid ending defenders think
46:39 that realization tho
Lets gooo 🔥
25:34 sounds even better when beatboxing to it
edit: I don't even know anymore if saint enjoys these things or he's suffering, maybe both
This makes me think that the only ending possible is our manga ending besides the Eren stuff.
I camnot defend the rumbling as an action, but i can defend why Eren did it, if u understand
No one needs an hour to prove or show a point, this shows who the dumber one is. Making an hour long video doesn't change the fact that the author proved you were wrong
No.. he didn’t?
@@thaisennj9781 8 pages
I don't know if you want to do a reaction to the latest CactuzzShash video, but it would be interesting if you did 💀
Saint already bummed Shash in his debate. Shash was left clueless even to the point his own fans told him to stfu. Same thing has happened to Invaderzz now his video has backfired massively. His own fans are calling him out for his BS
@MrRisk Nah Gabi shot Sasha. I don't think invaderzz would debate her. Even stupid potatoe girl is more logical and smarter than that clown Invaderzz
Moral Relativism
Okay, it was historia's decision to get pregnant? Sure, that's fine i guess. Let's say that was the twist and the father's identity is irrelevant and serves no purpose. Why does she ask the question to eren like his opinion is supposed to be important or something. Since it was her decision alone, no one else's opinion should matter, so why is eren being asked that, then cut short right before his response, and never mentioned again. Even if his opinion is irrelevant too, we should've at least seen it whole in that chapter. Not to mention that that specific part of the conversation was mixed with eren and zeke's conversation about mikasa's feelings for him, those two conversations are supposed to have different topics and for some reason they're mixed? Not one after the other? You may think I'm stretching it but that's not on me, that's on isayama for making it seem like that. It's a shame he never explained that and turns out, "the sins of the father" theme turned out to be useless too
"It's fine, get pregnant, save yourself from the mps and live a normal life, a life you can be proud of", even something so simple could've sufficed, even if that was her own selfish decision to get pregnant. If isayama was never gonna continue that, he shouldn't even let mappa animate her asking the question (should've ended it right when eren called her the worst girl in the world). It was just 3 seconds of irrelevant, meaningless screen time anyway, there shouldn't have been an issue. They should have at least given us farmer kun's backstory or his own pov if not historia's, at least his.
Historia deserved so much better, whether people agree or not
I don’t know but I get this big natural feeling because of the sins of the father theme and how much tragic irony and build up chemistry eren and histroia have something truly tells me the original intention was that eren did indeed nock her up to keep her save and she fall in love with him because how much she understands his pain
But since the creator is very garbage at making conclusions will never truly know but that’s the speculation iam going with BIG TIME!!
And I say this to the creator and all your SIMP TOID D SUCKER FOLLOWERS F 🖕YOU
I got plans to edit the final film in October soon to my personal preference so ITS ALL GOOD 👍
Ok moving on
We all know who she was asking to impregnate :) ;)
JustAcritic's Colossal Review of Attack on Titan is probably one of the best 'ending defender' takes of AoT. JAC actually used what was presented in the manga to justify the ending, instead of headcanons, what ifs, or Eastern philosophy! While I still dislike the ending, and I don't agree with every point JAC made, he definitely helped me see parts of the ending in a whole new light. JAC even criticised parts of the ending that weren't done so well in his opinion, and he even gives praise to how well written Floch is!
Eren is X for sure, I wouldnt go as far to say the First King is martin luther though, considering the First KIng wiped the memories of his subjects. ofc its not 1:1 but
yeah but its fundamentally the same
So Malcom X was a racist that wanted to kill everyone outside of his city. Kinda sus to say.
Everybody loves the peaceful guy, because they can take advantage of him. But they can't mess with X, because he will actually retaliate. Could have all been avoided if the world left Eldians alone, but they let fear consume them and got clapped as a result. Lesson learned.
44:15 need context why he said it and what it meant It's not like he knew the future I knew what else was going to do with the power
I mean, like the first attempted invasion to paradis was a shit show, Marley sent four children alone without supervision and left them there for five years without any means to communicate with them or fall back in case of defeat, it was a coincidence they sent the beast and cart and they waited five years to finally go see what happened with their warriors.
The second invasion of paradis was no longer for the resources but to monitor a global threat, but like, they sent 32 survey ships to the island and all of them were lost, why didn't they send warships to escort them? I know the excuse is that they were in war, but if you can spare 32 fucking ships and countless men in them it's stupid not to send a destroyer or a warship to escort them.
And finally the third invasion of paradis was to neutralize an active global threat, this was the massive landing of airborne troops on shinganshina, it was the most impressive attack in Marley's history, and they failed miserably and actually caused the rumbling in making this rushed attack, why didn't they wait for the global alliance to mobilize their troops and land on the island? Because Reiner thought Eren would start the rumbling, Marley, the nation that enslaves eldians and reduce them to cannon fodder and human farms, the ones that don't let eldians talk to Marleyans unless talked to, acted out of the fear of an eldian, it doesn't make sense, also Marley abandoned the plan to conquer paradis after their war with the middle east because they lost two warriors and the rumbling was now a plausible threat, but they returned to it and made a declaration of war enraging Eren more because Zeke told the general that it was a good publicity stunt, it doesn't make sense, nothing makes sense.
I like Marley and the outside world as a concept because of its implication, the implication that the world in what seems to be the 1920s is ruled by what at the time were considered minorities.
Marley is a nation modeled after fascist italy and its the global super power of this world, its closest rival is the middle eastern alliance, a stand in for the ottoman empire, we see ambassador ogweno and his wife being the representatives of a black nation that during the rumbling we see are an industrial and wealthy nation, and those who are considered inferior and discriminated against are white germanic people, this makes an interesting premise for the outside world, but it's all so underdeveloped and isayama justified it very poorly that in retrospective makes the reveal of Marley and the outside world seem stupid.
Yes Marley is evil in their actions against eldians, but we must remember that eldians are living bio weapons that can destroy entire cities in hours, yet Marley is really incompetent in putting their ghettos in the middle of their cities, Marley is an incompetent nation, but Eren is a psychopath with no motivation or justification for what he did, but I really can't side with any of them for how fucking stupid everyone is.
What happened to our debate is your internet working now
Isn’t that the same guy that said Eren freed the pigs??
@Manvëru oh ma bad thank you
If the fandom war still ongoing to this day then I can definitely say that Isayama failed as an author.. unless something in the anime.
If the fandom war is still ongoing today then I can definitely say Isayama SUCCEEDED as an author. Arguing about it this long keeps it relevant. Relevance = money, money = success.
It’s a great story, great ending, executed a little roughly, but he can still take all these arguments to the bank.
@@APrime25 shit* ending but besides that i agree with what you said
@@Sukuna10281 A story is subjective. I think it’s good. You think it’s bad. Both of us are correct. My problem is how people are out here arguing as if their perspective is the only correct one and dissing Isayama like he didn’t write a narrative that set the world on fire.
“He rushed it.”
“He didn’t know how to end it!”
“He messed up the character.”
Instead, it should just be “I didn’t like it because of (reasons),” & “I liked it because of (reasons).” “Hey that’s fair because we’re different people.” “Yeah!” The Internet is making everything some Republican vs Democrat type s**t, & it’s exhausting.
@@APrime25 "A story is subjective. I think it’s good. You think it’s bad. Both of us are correct. (...)The Internet is making everything some Republican vs Democrat type s**t" Highly agree!
Saintitchief is back
Well nobody is supporting the rumbling , the show is again and again show genocide is wrong even Eren knows it but he did not saw any other way out and he did it 😏
I actually really liked his video on Eren he did a few months back. But this one just felt unnecessary and completely pointless, 80% of the video was a glorified recap
1:20:46
URI: YES YEEEES YEEEES
ruclips.net/video/P3ALwKeSEYs/видео.html
Who is going to judge Paradis if there is no world outside of Paradis
(Like if the judges that how is he going to judge you for a crime)
My question now is:
Who guarantees that there will be peace of everyone besides the Eldians is dead? Isn't that also just a maybe? Even though most people supported the rumbling, not every single person did. And even if everyone agreed that it was the right thing to do: the yeagerists were fascist assholes and they saw no problem with just executing people who disagree with them. Doing that would obviously lead to more people criticizing them and that would maybe lead to a smaller scale war on the island. Yeah, it's also just a maybe but it's definitely a possible option.
The only part i agree wit him is erens plan part thats it but good vid
Good night
43:21 ah hell nah saint💀
Floch and the Yaegerist never cared about why Eren was doing the rumbling all they care about is that he gets it done. He was a tool to them.
Flock knew (or atleast thought considering 139 spoliers) that eren was dyatroying the world not really to save paradise atleast not as his main goal but to save his friends.
Floch knew eren was selfish he just thought erens goals and his overlapped so he didn't care.
@@creeperkingdom3190 Does that change my statement? No, so why say anything you added nothing to the conversation. You just rephrased need l my statement.
@@gammagamer6397 I was just adding to what you said I agree.
@@creeperkingdom3190 but you ultimately added nothing
@@gammagamer6397 damn, you’re ruthless
34:10 - 35:20
Eren did nothing wrong
Common Saint W
1:18:10 nap time
sìiuuu
It really clouds your better points when you're petty, man. It's hard to listen when you've clearly decided not take your opponent seriously beforehand
i took him very seriously
He didn't say the 50 year plan was a great plan. He said it's a better plan than the rumbling, destroying the entire world and everyone in it.
That's not a good plan for Eldians, as they get wiped out in 50 years. Only way Eldians survive is with the rumbling, and the extra pages prove it. Paradis got wrecked and Armin's plan proved to be fk all useless. Peace is oftentimes not the best solution. It's either we die, or they die, no in between.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928I argued with an ending defender about that and they said that Paradis got destroyed because of civil war. Copium at its finest.
I finally disagree with you. Of course Zekes plan was better. Only Historia’s family would suffer a bit before all subject of Ymir were dead. Nobody but them even would have to die within the walls. Sure they couldn’t have kids but thats better than slaughtering 80% of humanity. I would debate you any time on this. I agree with you on almost everything else. This ending was dog shit.
Zeke’s plan was better but not to Eren
comparing eren to malcom x is not understanding malcom
So you seriously think the morality of the rumbling is the same as Eldia causing a few deaths in their attack? 1:01:20
You make it sound as if it is completely irrelevant how much destruction is caused.
This is the good old "Oh one enemy solider killed one of our guys? Time to wipe out the entire nation!" logic that caused many historical conflicts.
Why shouldn't morality take any of that into consideration?
And the same can be said about the "oh there is a "maybe" involved, this is not entirely save, lets blow up the world" argument. There are ALWAYS plenty of uncertainties involved.
You just frame it in away that is conformable for your side of the argument: There was no guarantee that the titan curse could be lifted with the rumbling, in fact the story clearly showed that titans and a reason to use them would reappear no matter what.
I find it amazing that rumbling deniers take numbers into account but not scale.
the outside world wanted to murder everyone in paradise out of fear and hated.
the yeagerist wanted to kill everyone their out of hated and because they don't want to die.
one was proactive while the other was reactive.
they only reason the rumbling is killing more people is becuase the outside world happens to be larger.
that's like saying if us attacks Jamaica the Jamaican army was wrong to fight back becuase they killed ten times the number of us soldiers than the us killed Japan soldiers before they were deafeated.
not taking into account that the us army is thousands of times bigger
@@creeperkingdom3190
The "both side" argument should always take into account that 99% of both Eldia and Marly are clueless peasants.
And I definitively didn't say they shouldn't fight back.
Total annihilation is not "fighting back".
To stay with your example: Are the Jamaicans justified in releasing a zombiekillervirus, that kills everyone except themself in your scenario, instead of sticking to known weapons?
yes it is the same morality wise. idc about numbers like that. morality is morality.
@@saintitchief
I understand that just counting numbers is not relevant for morality, but usually morality isn't used to justify genocide.
If any casualty is as bad as the rumbling, isn't that morality entirely useless as a basis of action here?
You would always get dragged into war, because any escalation is easy to justify:
There is always one initial murder or accident that could be used as a justification for infinite retaliation.
@@richardhauer8391 if it's a kill or be killed scenario, you're completely justified in making sure your side is not genocided. Those were the conditions set up in the story.
There is one thing that you both don't consider, which is that aot is a shit story, I know it hurts, after loving the early seasons so much and wanting to understand it's mistery yall couldn't accept that post time skip aot is a shit show of plot holes and contradictions. But invaderz idea is probably the one that's closest to the auther's intentions. as for morality I can safely say that your take should be barried to the ground. The fact that if what eren did is right is up for debate proves that this story was shit. As if opressed people would resort to genociding their opressors, not only is it stupid but also dangerous.
As someone who liked the ending (wasnt perfect but I think it's eay overhated), what do you all expect to happen after Eren killed the entire world? It not like Paradis would prosper. Yeah they would be at peace for a while. Perhaps even for the rest of Erens and friends' lives, but T some point human will find a way to go to war and have conflict. Not even telling about those final pages, but hell even before the War with Marley Paradis was in a state of turmoil within itself, a classistic society that worked to snuff out anything out of line and after the coup it became Militaristic leadership. The island is far from from a perfect state and the Rumbling would have destroyed literally all possibility of them being able to properly advance in the way they wanted to. They would stunt their growth again.
And if you look at the final pages, I think its clearly a war with Paradis and another country, but do I think this is a war that is being fought over the same issues and conflicts? Not at all. The final pages and the destruction of the future society was at least a hundred years after AoT if not more. They probably found something else to fight about as countries do.
Either way my point is that thinking the Rumbling would be a catch all solution for peace is ridiculous. No matter how you look at it, Eren had at least some selfish goals in the Rumbling. I think that driving force was his hatred, which he never had real outlet for.
Like even though Zeke and Eren were two pieces that wouldnt really cooperate with the best intentions, iij think that using the rumbling to attack the ports, weaken the enemy militaries to allowww for actual peace talks would become the basis. Because if its within the founders power to get rid of the power of the titans in general then use that as a negotiation piece. Just use small rumblings and military tactics to give yourselves advantage and standing ground in the world.
In the end they were never given the time to do that or have any real plan to come to fruition because Eren ran away and they were forced to cooperate with his terms. If anything Eren took away their opportunity for proper actions to br be taken.
So whilst Eren does has justifications for what he did, by NO means was it his only option. There were other ways to go about things. Trying to kill every single person outside the walls is just an evil decision even if it was made with the best intentions. He took away the freedom of innocent people. Theres no justifying that.
There will always be violence so don’t bother. Thats your argument?
What was his other options? Hope that the world doesn’t kill them? Even though they already tried twice and were still planning on doing it again? Thats not really a great option.
No, like I said, what they should have done was attack their militaries and ports to make it where they couldn't attack them? And then use that as a spring board for peace talks.
The entire eradication of everybody was not a necessity. They defend themselves and attack their militaries. Not their civilians. There was no need whatsoever to kill that many people.
Yes it would have been effective in protecting Paradis, does not mean it was a good thing to do. Especially since it involved killing innocent people..
@@carbon1330 Yes again thats just a hope. Killing their military doesn’t guarantee that they won’t retaliate in the future, its simply hoping they won’t.
Since when did eren care about peace shit? In the very first season he literally said uniting humanity against you sounds naive. He was FIFTEEN then. Eren already knew stopping wars forever is impossible no matter what you do, before getting to the basement and kissing Historia's hand. After that he made sure of it even more.
Did you forget what eren said in sea scene, in shooting scene, in liberio basement one, table one? What about "I'll take away the freedom of those who try to take mine away" (was he a pretender when he said that?)? Eren's goal was never to bring peace to the world. It was Armin's (naive) dream. All eren wanted was to protect the island from the outside danger (chapters 122, 130 and 131 prove that as objectively the best ones in aot) and he would have succeeded if he did the 100-% genocide. He would have protected historia, her children, paradis and even his friends. All they needed to do was to stay on the island and wait. Like hell he could save the world from conflicts with killing 80 % of it, creating Yeagerist organisation the members of which hate it the most and after attacking one of the cities. Besides, he saw armin trying to talk to others, allies and enemies. Did it work? No. Did hizuru help them somehow? No. Did hange come up with something as a leader of the survey corps (and she had 4 years for it)? Already no solution
What about 2000-year hate between eldians and other nations, the fact they are potential monsters which can be used by anyone for any ambitions or use their power themselves for endangering and threatening humanity? Or about the agreement between tyburs and carl fritz marley broke itself? If they didn't, eren wouldn't have done the rumbling because he couldn't see a good reason for it (carla's death, shiganshina invasion, being forced to leave your home etc.). He probably would have wanted to find another solution, maybe the same armin or zeke had. But that didn't happen. The only way to save his homeland is to get rid of the world's hate towards his people, to kill everyone on the continent
Eren could careless if paradis would be involved into a civil war. Chapter 139 showed there already was a conflict (between historia (I don't know how she remained the queen) and Yeagerists) on the island + it was preparing for another collision with those 20 %. What's the difference between civil war and ordinary one? None. People die here and there
The ending was asscheeks. Rumbling was the only way. The outside world tried to take away Eren and paradis' freedom, what's ur point? Innocent ppl died on Paradis' too.
Dont like it? Get rumbled.
As someone who used to defend the ending, was the rumbling really needed to protect Paradis? I mean Eren had full control of millions of colossal titans. Couldn't he just invade all the countries and take over their military bases? Clearly the world had no hope in stopping the rumbling else 80% of the populations wouldn't have been crushed. After invading all the countries, have Eren pass down his founding titan to one of the Yeagerists so on and so forth. It's not foolproof, there would still be plenty of causalities, and the plan does require someone with royal blood. However, worse case scenario would be forcing Historia's decedents to reproduce and possible be permanently spliced with whoever was holding the founding titan.
The Eldian empire lasted for over 1700 years before falling to Marley. Even then, the only reason they were able to do so was because Karl Fritz condemned his people to an island for the sins of his ancestors. This was a terrible decision. Not only were the eldians trapped on an island, terrorized by the titanized forms of their kin, but the rest of the world was in constant fear of someone like Eren coming along and crushing the world. Karl Fritz should have taken responsibility for the actions of his ancestors, and built a better empire. Instead, he created a situation were no peaceful outcomes could happen.
Eren would disagree with this plan since it requires shackling the royal family, but that's a different conversation. If we're talking strictly morally, I don't see why establishing a new empire wouldn't be best for everyone, of course without enslaving non-eldians. It's not a perfect solution, but its better than the genocide of the world or the eldians.
Anyway, that's just my opinion. Feel free to give me some counterpoints.
the choice was rumble or gamble on your life. considering the rest of the world wants to kill paradis more than ever before, its really really dumb to gamble.
@@saintitchief Just because they want to kill the eldians doesn't mean they have the ability to. Suppose Eren does just invade the countries using the colossal titans. What could the world do? Marly and the Mid-East Allied Forces just finished a 5 year long war. Marley's military was particularly weak considering Eren's attack during the festival. If they could fight against this supposed invasion, then how come they weren't able to defend themselves against the rumbling?
Why couldn't Eren use the rumbling strategically, rather than resorting to genocide?
@@_EQ_ because Zeke would only allow him to use it right now. It was now or never, or he’d have to sacrifice Historia.
He didn’t have time to use it strategically. He was going to die soon and Zeke way before.
@@saintitchief I don't understand your point. Eren had full control of the founding titan after he touched Zeke. My point is that Eren could have used the titans more strategically. He only needs to use the founder one time in order to invade the world. Eren's setup for gaining control of the founder is the same. The only thing that's changing is how he's using it.
80% of the worlds population was wiped within days of the activation. Eren could easily invade and occupy the world with colossal titans in a month timeframe. I don't see why either Zeke's or Eren's term limit is a problem.
@Manvëru It's true that Eren doesn't know where all the military bases are in the world, but he should know where most of Marley's. In Ch. 132 Yelena explains how to use the partial rumbling in case its needed. Eren should have a good idea of where the military bases are. She even goes on to say, "I think this attack will be more than enough if we're able to do just that to every major nation." For the other countries, it'll take a little surveying. We saw in the manga that the colossal titans were spread across the world, they weren't just focus on one spot. So Eren could just spread them out when searching for them.
As for avoiding crushing people, it'll be easy enough to avoid major towns and cities. Eren was able to do avoid the districts within Paradis, so he should be able to do the same with other countries. There will still be causalities, especially if some bases are in towns or cities. Considering the alternative is genocide, I think they'll take what they can get.
As side note. I looked it up, Eren has around 585,000 titans not millions like I previously thought .
Sometimes we forget that Attack on Titan is just a wonderful story. However, we tend to compare the story to "real life", but it is NOT real life, it's a story! Hajime Isayama wrote the story, and the ending is his alone, like it or not! It is what it is, and nothing will change the ending! Isayama is a master of storytelling. I'll say that if someone could write something better (doubtful), step up! I might be a fan?
Now my point, since many are making "real life" comparisons with AOT , I have to ask the question - In "real life" (historically) has there ever been a justification for genocide? NO! Thus the ending suits me fine! ❤
I always felt Erens admission about how humans existing outside the wall was something he could not accept and he just wanted to wipe it all away said all there was to be said.
Yes, as an author Isayama didn’t give enough alternatives but Eren still would’ve been obsessed with this warped view point because how dare anyone else break his dream of exploring the world.
He didn’t tell Ramzi “I wanted to wipe it all away because I was given no other choice” no, he admitted at his core it was because the world wasn’t like he’d envisioned it. That would’ve remained regardless.
Same thing can b said about gabi and the rest of the world, she said they came to slaughter not defend. Eren’s clearly defending himself in this situation. And if eren never transformed they all would’ve died.
“This island. It’s to save Eldia” that’s what Eren said to ramzi when explaining why he was doing the rumbling. Why do you ignore that? Why do you think he can only do something for one reason? He wanted to do the rumbling to achieve freedom AND save his people
@@hankkingofmischief4372 “The island, it’s to save Eldia, but it’s more than that. When I learned that humanity lived beyond the walls, I was so disappointed. I wished for it, I wanted to wipe it all away”
Saving Eldia was nothing more than a lie he told everyone because he was too ashamed to admit what it was really all about. Why do you think he chose to say these words to someone who could not understand him?
@@t-ro6176 It’s not about transforming, it’s what he did after transforming. The Eldians weren’t the only oppressed people in the world, that was made abundantly clear.
@@O.Z.K185 he was not ashamed to admit what it was about he literally explained the entire reason. To save Eldia and achive freedom. You people can’t read!
Bro . Chapter 139 deliberately stated that Eren wanted to destroy the world . He even put the picture in the video when he stated it .
When will you stop believing what you want and actually reading what the story is stating . Sheesh….
You're citing a retcon for a silly point 💀
Comparing a whole story of buildup (which supports the fact Eren did the rumbling in self defense rather than a stupid book) to one chapter that destroys all the build up and still picking the one retcon chapter shows your bias
And even if we took 139 seriously, when Armin asked why Eren did the rumbling, he literally says he doesnt know. WhErEs YoUr BoOk NoW?
@@ThatAsianGuy68 stop riding and reread
The story .
No retcon . You guys are just idiots that believe there was one
and midnight sun proved that eren gave no fucks about armin’s dream
@@ThatAsianGuy68 "citing a retcon" This has to be the dumbest argument by retarded aot fans with no proof,just pure speculations of trust me bro,eren's nature to do certain actions was not just a ch139 thing,it's been there from like first arc when armin asks why he wants to venture the outside world,he was shaped by people around him but his nature serves a main component in defining his actions,just like in ch121 when zeke asks him "why do you oppose to ending the conflict,what do u want to do with power of freedom",if he had a clear goal in mind like u guys say that he was doing it all for eldia but his face said completely different and his answer was "ever since I was born I have always been me" again reflecting on his nature to do what he does,and I'm not saying it's all coz of his nature thats totally false eren himself was pushed by the world to do what he did,he himself was trying to escape the future he saw but gave into it when he realised there was no other way
At this point I'm seriously done with this topic and I won't argue further coz none of the sides of this fandom are open minded be it defenders or haters
Wanted to destroy the world..... BECAUSE HE AND HIS ISLAND IS ABOUT TO GET FUCKN WIPED.
Had to stop listening 20 minutes in. a) you don’t even let him finish his points before you pause and start disagreeing. It’s clear from the beginning of the video based on you refuting the TITLE ALONE that you were not primed to listen with an open mind or in good faith.
b) your refutes are laced with emotionally inflamed language/generalisations to distort and manipulate what Invaderzzz points are. For example, Invanderzzz stating that the 50 year plan was preferable to the Rumbling does not equal supporting King Fritz. It goes within saying that Paradis does NOT support the acts of cannibalisation/eating family members, they simply have no alternative at this point that is more humane. They are working within the limits of the hell King Fritz created, and this is very different to actively supporting him.
A side note, you stated King Fritz is the most vile, evil character in the entire story. While his extreme acts of subjugation and violence are incredibly evil, and his plan to have children in his blood line consume their family time is horrific, he is NOT the most evil character in the story. That title goes to EREN, because while Fritz has some notches in his belt, claiming the lives of more than 1 billion innocent people, wiping out the planets ecosystems and erasing centuries of human culture/advancements will ALWAYS be worse. There is NO COMPARISON.
The 50 year plan was imperfect, but it bought them time and possibilities for diplomacy while sparing as many lives as possible. Jumping to wiping out the planet would never be the first or best option, but it’s the one Eren chose because in his words- he simply “wanted to” due to his childish “disappointment” that the world was something far more complex than he’d ever imagined and a place he would have to share with those outside the walls.
had to stop reading 2 sentences in
@@saintitchief HAHA 😂 I respect that response
@@TheAmyBryans lol but seriously, i get your point there, but keep in mind this was a live reaction in which i was going off the top of my head while also trying to keep it entertaining for 200+ people.
if you want my less reactionary, well constructed response to this argument, check out this video, 15 mins long.
ruclips.net/video/uGSG1ZCjwk4/видео.html
if you watch it all, comment what you think there and i’ll respond
Did you ignore the whole story? You really think Eren just killed everyone outside the walls just because they existed? Isayama himself literally disproved this point.
Nah, the whole King Fritz point automaticly refute your comparison to Eren! The main difference is that KF did his action out of conquest and indulgence! Eren did what he did for his own people! Stop the cap!
The video wasn't very good but yes the Rumbling is indefensible
Morally it’s indefensible realistically it definitely is
@@aDsnow I get Eren's pov but I think there are more peaceful ways to deal with this.
@@michaelbaiden1308 like?
@@aDsnow leveraging the threat of the Rumbling or the resources in Paradis to negotiate peace talks, a grand show of power to decimate the anti Eldian allied army, trade deals etc. etc.
I personally think after decimating the united army they can get the world into some kind of negotiation I mean that would be a major financial loss for all the major powers in the world and additionally Eldia could have threatened Marley with selling their resources to their enemies afterwards etc. etc.