Gavin: The God of the Universe is seeking us and wants a relationship with us! Alright, let’s lighten the mood. When people smile, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for its life.
I don't want a "relationship with God". That sounds disrespectful and too casual toward God. It sounds like God is my boyfriend. I want a God I can WORSHIP and be in communion with.
Not entirely. On the exoteric level the major religions do have vast and wide differences, but on the esoteric this isn’t the case. This is why the monastic/mystical schools of the major religions all basically speak to the same truth of non-duality. I would posit that it’s rather the opposite of why you suggest: anyone who claims all the major religions of the world are radically different hasn’t truly studied them.
@IAMFISH92 While all religions have a common purpose in claiming to tend to universally held needs of human nature, how and why one believes it is right differs diametrically. It is this that makes them so different and is not found without study. Mysticism and monasticism highlights more the problems that tend to join the embrace of those two leanings away from true religion. What someone might call mystic isn’t always evil. But it can breed a sense of inwardness that is foreign to Christianity and that is where it would depart from true religion.
@@IAMFISH92If you only mean the mystic schools of the Abrahamic religions are very alike, I’ll grant you a half point. Christian mystics and sufis, who intensely focus on the connection to Oneness, have far more in common than Kabbalah, which actually presents a *less* unified version of God than mainstream Judaism. Broadened out to traditions that have less and less contact with the Abrahamic religion, your claims become more spurious. What does Aboriginal shamanism or Aztec polytheism have to do with the Abrahamic religions, ethically, metaphysically, ritually??
@@IAMFISH92You have it backwards. The religions have surface level similarities but their fundamental teachings are starkly contradictory. It’s actually disrespectful to them all to say they all teach the same thing.
Would be really cool if Rainn saw this! I appreciate anyone making the effort that Wilson is going for here. He is striving to be a peace maker and I think that is a good thing. Would be VERY cool if you were somehow able to have a discussion with him on really any topic!
Thank you Gavin. I saw this interview and thought it was interesting for all the reasons you did. Plus my entire family absolutely loves the office! I hope you and your family Have a Merry Christmas!
Rainn isn’t Christian, but I think it’s good he has these discussions, to hopefully at least get people thinking deeper about spirituality and religion, plus his journey of faith isn’t over, so who knows where he’ll arrive in 10 years. Something is better than nothing
Gavin nailed it. Exclusivity and the Law of Not Contradiction. The Baha'i religion does not reconcile these in a logico-causal way and resists the need to. That is why you can not expect rationality and reason to be the grounds for reaching people like this (or anyone really). Christianity itself is misdefined as a religion when we use a secular / unregenerate and fundamentally "non-onto-relational" framework as our starting point or frame of reference. This concedes too much ground and is in fact a fundamental category error. Christianity is Jesus Christ. If we place Christianity in the category of religion among the other religions of the world we have relegated it to a belief system defined outside of God's own "aposteriori " revelation of himself. That is we have not understood the way in which God has actually communicated himself to us in the person Jesus Christ and so we lump him in with all the other religious teachers. This is the precise error that the Baha'i people make along with everyone else who misdefines Christianity.
“My truth” is way Rainn is saying. The Truth is Jesus and what he taught. Which is why when I came to Christianity and people were saying they were glad I found “what works for me” I was annoyed. Christianity isn’t my truth. It’s never something I would have believed if I wasn’t convinced it was just true.
What is this way of Jesus? According to the gospels it's giving away all one's possessions. It's also following the Mosaic law to the letter. Since few if any Christians are doing that, it seems that most are doing what works for them while claiming to "follow" Jesus.
@@joeoleary9010 When people asked Jesus what he had to do to do the works of God, he said: This is the work of God, that you believe in him that he has sent.
Embrace that tension. Meditate on it. You feel you've found the truth; now realize there are people who feel _just as strongly as you do_ about their own epiphanies that aren't (on the surface) compatible with yours. So either you're extremely lucky to have happened to stumble into the uniquely correct religion, or you're just as wrong as you think the next guy is, _or_ maybe the 3rd option that every religion is a tiny, inherently limited perspective on God, has some merit?
As a Brit I have often found US remakes of shows failing to hit the mark shall we say, BUT, their remake of the Office was really good. I enjoyed it a lot and wasn't left constantly comparing it to the original. The casting was fantastic.
Rainn is fun to listen to, and I'm glad you made this response! He could well have said some things that speak deeply to help Alex see the reality of God.
We can also ask, by what standard do we decide that peace, love, and unity are the highest virtues? On whose authority does one submit to that standard, and what truths does he appeal to in order to decide whether that authority is really supreme? I'm not a great philosopher, but that's what came to mind.
Can you review the debate Alex O’Conner just had with Cliffe and Stuart Knechtle? Alex and his partner Phil had a lot of thought out points that Cliffe and Stuart didn’t address. there were big arguments put forward by Alex and Phil, going against fine tuning, talking about animal death before the fall, the reliability of the gospels speaking on the morality of the Joshua conquests.
I fear that Cliffe and his son, just aren't very good debaters. That's not to say they don't have a big impact on peoples lives - but if they are faced with a question they can't answer in the moment, they go back to some metaphor that sounds profound but has little to do with the subject, which makes them look weaker in debates.
@ I completely agree. It was a bad look for them. And there were big arguments put forward by Alex and Phil, going against fine tuning, talking about animal death before the fall, speaking on the morality of the Joshua conquests. I think it’s a rich video for Gavin to look into.
Dwight was low key the most moral and religious character on The Office. He was a lapsed Mennonite at least. "My German is pre industrial and mostly religious."😅
@RedeemedMusicanOfGod of Shia Islam more specifically, but bahais consider it to be a different religion not just what Mormons are to Christians but rather they see themselves like what Muslims are to Christians. I have seen some videos refuting the "titles" of the core beliefs of the Baha'i faith but I have never seen anyone look and counter the counter arguments of the Baha'i (like a deep debate) it would be interesting to know
The apologetic world is very small on the Baha'i faith and the little that does exist isn't very good. In Baha'i apologetics thief in the night by William Spears is possibly the equivalent to Mere Christianity in influence on Baha'is of Christian background who have converted.
Its been said a million times before, but Gavin, I really appreciate how humble and charitable you are in your approach to people who disagree with you. In my experience, many conservative Christians would be gnashing their teeth at guys like Rainn and insisting he's wrong 100 percent, but you're willing to point out where he's right in his philosophy while still offering a helpful, Gospel centered critique. Kudos to you.
I highly recommend to everyone the book: Your Life Your Game by keezano🙌🏼 I read it and it changed my life, it shows how connecting with God and your inner self can lead to spiritual growth and financial success. A must read…😊
Strangely, the book isn't on Amazon and I can find no reviews of it. And more strangely, 73 people on this Christian forum upvoted. Something is amiss.
To a blind man, there is no distinction between men and trees (Mark 8:22-26) Somehow I can't see the Apostle Paul going to Athens and saying, "They're all the same, let's add Jesus to the gods at the Aeropagus" (Acts 17: 16-34).
Polycarp is a hero to Messianic Jews as well. He was a Quartodeciman like us. My grandfather and father have been to his tomb in Izmir. I want to go someday with my children but Turkey is not the safest place for Jews to visit these days. Hey that's an idea. You could do a video on the Quartodeciman controversy. Great video as always!
2:25 Worth noting that nothing has developed to make more sense out of those things in the years since he was in his 20's. The conversation has not budged an inch in favor of atheism despite the plethora of scientific studies dedicated to making sense of exactly these things. And arguably it makes far less sense now that we understand the depth of fine tuning and the entrenched paradoxes of abiogenesis.
Rainn is seeking Truth. This is wonderful. I hope he discovers the truly unique connection to the Divine that is found through Christ. And Rainn: All are still welcome. :) Find the true followers of Christ among all the bad actors, and you’ll find the 1st century Church again.
I was SOOO close to becoming a Baha’i (Rainn’s faith) at one point, I still enjoy his Baha’i blogcast and have some Baha’i friends, God bless them. For me the smoking gun was a commentary by Shoghi Effendi (the authoritative interpreter of the Baha’i faith and grandson of Baha’u’llah) on the non-existence of the demonic. Basically demons/ evil spirits are metaphors for our badness… ah but an encounter with the demonic in a way I couldn’t rationally explain was THE REASON I initially stopped being an atheist formally and intellectually admitted there was something more to reality. To say my initial encounter and later experiences was just in my head, to dismiss lottery-level chance coincidences involving hidden knowledge, reason simply didn’t support that conclusion.
For me the deal breaker with Baha'ism was covenant breaking. Its hard for me reconcile the harshness of covenant breaking and the mercy of the prodigal son. All the infighting between the descendants of Baha-u'llah is also off putting. Its plan for a one world government is also a bit strange. Considering all the infighting from the religions beginning. A fascinating figure to read up on the Baha'i faith is the christian missionary E.G. Browne who interviewed Baha'u'llah several times. "while the teachings are admirable, in my view they are inferior to the simplicity and beauty of the teachings of Christ" E.G. Browne I honestly believe everything the Baha'is are looking for happened at penetecost. Some of my best friends are Baha'is.
Indeed, syncretism usually falls into the disregard of the specifics and divergences. When I was 10 years old I used to think this way, but then you realize that you’re applying western liberal philosophy (stemming from western Christian culture) into a world that in it of itself in it’s natural state is characterized for it’s lack of morality, we only gotta think of the Canaanites to understand that that was the norm throughout humanity’s history not a one time thing. Thank you Gavin for your videos! Thank you sir for how much help you have been for me and countless others who have found themselves curious or shaken in their foundations, for you have helped them tremendously. God bless 😁
The video was interesting. Alex clearly pulled some punches to avoid embarrassing Rainn. I found it interesting he said he was a "red letter" Christian. Obviously not all the red letters don't square with his beliefs.
Dwight - Through concentration, I can raise and lower my cholesterol. Jim - Why would you want to raise your cholesterol? Dwight - So I can lower it. 😂
A great comment from this video is, concerning pluralism, you either believe that your way is right, or you believe your view of everyone else’s way is right.
All these other religions have transformed somehow, it's only Christianity which says, okay, Jesus and God are what is important. Hebrews 13:8 NKJV - Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Last I recall Rainn Wilson was a Baha’i. Study that at any depth and you’ll quickly find the inconsistencies. In fact, Gavin, I think you should do a video on Baha’ism.
I loved this video. At the end though, you said Jesus is right or wrong and either he rose from the dead or he didn't. But you believe that he rose from the dead right? I certainly do. I believe he is the way the truth in life. I have many faults in my life, and I'm the first to admit that. But I am trying to be a good child of our Lord and Savior. I really enjoy watching your videos keep them up God bless!
I think the “updating OS metaphor” can be used to describe the approach to Judaism and Greek philosophy of some Church Fathers-with the caveat that the ultimate and perfect update is Christianity.
What the gospel accomplishes makes updating absolutely unnecessary: forgiveness of sin, universal invitation, non-violent ethics, and a flexible praxis that makes cruciformity compatible for all societies. We don’t have to be Amish to be true Christians, or worship in a Byzantine style. Muhammad didn’t teach something about God’s grace that wasn’t already revealed in the Bible. What is Bahaullah offering that I can’t find in Jesus? In the interview he said Christians stopped following the gospel. Even if that was true, it doesn’t nullify it…
Rainn Wilson also had an interesting conversation with David Bentley Hart a little while ago: ruclips.net/video/dE9FL_8quaw/видео.htmlsi=0RvrfETPPfxwikVW
DBH views need attending to. If only for (but of course not only for) the fact he opens up the spaces in between attempts to quickly force an either/or and get all the buckets labeled and organized just so.
@@joeoleary9010 Because Gavin makes an issue about Catholic exclusivism. And sees protestant inclusivism as a strength. But when it comes to the view of this guy he changes the standard. And now its a bad contradictory thing.
8:16 Be deaf, therefore, whenever anyone speaks to you apart from Jesus Christ, who was of the family of David, who was the son of Mary; who really was born, who both ate and drank; who really was persecuted under Pontius Pilate, who really was crucified and died while those in heaven and on earth and under the earth looked on; who, moreover, really was raised from the dead when his Father raised him up, who-his Father, that is-in the same way will likewise also raise us up in Christ Jesus who believe in him, apart from whom we have no true life. Ignatius of Antioch to the Trallians 9
Dr. Ortlund, thank you for all of your edifying content. There's a book that some have claimed change the game regarding the topic of icon veneration. I have pasted the book title below. I think it's worth a read/response if you're willing. Early Icons: Christian Image Veneration Before 325 AD, Volume 1: Written Evidence and Paintings God bless everyone reading this!
That is a quote from the office. It might merely be that, but a potential tie-in is that Mr. Wilson's kind of pluralism is, in a sense, performing a type of identity theft on other religions by "stealing" their claims and names to support a different religion.
A true revival of the Christian faith would mean that Christians not only renounce their admiration of actors but also require that actors repent of their lives as actors before accepting them into the church. That our culture loves actors and holds them as celebrities indicates only how upside down our culture is. Even pagan Rome viewed actors as the lowest class of society. That Christians participate in this is shameful. As deeply as Gavin knows church history, I am surprised he doesn't address this.
Both of the texts below are Baha''i. As to Christ: He was a single, unique and lowly individual Who appeared at a time when the Israelitish nation had fallen from the heights of its glory to the lowest condition of bondage and contempt, subject to the tyranny of the Roman Empire, living under a yoke of humiliation, ignorant and negligent of God. The historical records of the Holy Books confirm these statements. Christ-this single and unique Personage-appeared amongst these despised and degraded people, reflecting a divine power and the potency of the Holy Spirit. He unified the various peoples and nations of the world, brought them together in fellowship and agreement and gathered them beneath the overshadowing protection of one Word. His prestige and mention were not confined to the children of Israel alone, who were at that time a limited race and people, but His spiritual power had also permeated and united great influential nations who had been warlike and hostile, such as the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Chaldeans, Syrians and Assyrians. He dispelled their hostility, healed their hatred, made them a united people, and by His Word created the utmost love amongst them so that they advanced immeasurably in the degrees of education and human perfection, thereby attaining a never-ending glory. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace ... In every dispensation, there hath been the commandment of fellowship and love, but it was a commandment limited to the community of those in mutual agreement, not to the dissident foe. In this wondrous age, however, praised be God, the commandments of God are not delimited, not restricted to any one group of people, rather have all the friends been commanded to show forth fellowship and love, consideration and generosity and loving-kindness to every community on earth. Now must the lovers of God arise to carry out these instructions of His: let them be kindly fathers to the children of the human race, and compassionate brothers to the youth, and self-denying offspring to those bent with years. The meaning of this is that ye must show forth tenderness and love to every human being, even to your enemies, and welcome them all with unalloyed friendship, good cheer, and loving-kindness. When ye meet with cruelty and persecution at another’s hands, keep faith with him; when malevolence is directed your way, respond with a friendly heart. To the spears and arrows rained upon you, expose your breasts for a target mirror-bright; and in return for curses, taunts and wounding words, show forth abounding love. Thus will all peoples witness the power of the Most Great Name, and every nation acknowledge the might of the Ancient Beauty, and see how He hath toppled down the walls of discord, and how surely He hath guided all the peoples of the earth to oneness; how He hath lit man’s world, and made this earth of dust to send forth streams of light.
Dr. Ortlund, I agree with your presentation of Christianity overall, but when you explain the basic message of the Gospel, you seem to emphasize the passive nature of our salvation in a way that is not only Protestant, but specifically Reformed/Lutheran. As a fellow Christian, I am happy to see you articulately present the Gospel to non-Christians, but I think it would be more effective if you did so in a manner that was less denominationally biased, especially seeing as Calvinists and Lutherans make up less than half of Christians worldwide.
@ScribeAlicious According to the latest population statistics I could find 'Half of Christians identify as Catholic, 37 percent Protestant, 12 percent Orthodox and 1 percent “Other”.' Also, even within the Protestant fold, Lutherans and Calvinists could be less than half, given how many Baptists, Pentecostals, Anglicans and non-doms are Arminian, plus the Methodists.
Am I a part of the problem or the solution. Sounds exclusivist to me. Christ demands repentance and submission to Him alone. Hopefully, Rainn learns this and becomes a brother in Christ. Praying for him and other celebrities like him.
Who is Jesus? The distinction of who Jesus really is must never be understated or modified as relative truth. 1+1 is the problem; what is the solution? Not all solutions can be the correct solution. In fact, there can be only one solution, and all the rest are incorrect
@@joeoleary9010 "what is the precise correct definition.." to keep in mind, my response was towards the video of Rainn Wilson's religious views. To say that all religions are compatible just by "upgrading" their details is to say that the solution to 1+1 could be 3 if 3 upgraded its detail by making it 2. Now, who is Jesus? Sure, Jesus in reality and the Jesus we perceive Him to be could very well be different. Which is why the biblical Jesus is important in understanding the correct Jesus. Even Jesus Himself attests to the reliability of the scriptures in Matthew 5:17-18
@@fernandoformeloza4107 "Various possibilities" is correct. That's why I find the utter certainty of so many here who claim to be absolutely sure they're on the correct path and Rainn is a lost soul ...amusing.
@@joeoleary9010 "..Rainn is a lost soul". It's up to each individual to investigate for themselves the various possibilities when it comes to the lostness of one's soul, to determine whether or not they themselves are lost or not. When it comes to the biblical Jesus, however, the inclusive and exclusive teachings of Jesus give a compelling impression that faith in God through Jesus alone, especially now that we live in an era of the fulfilled revelation of Jesus as Christ, is the only way one who is lost can be found, and is not compatible with the other religions
I don't find his views very fascinating. The idea of a syncretic, fluid religion, that is always progressing towards greater truth where everything is one makes sense in a sort of primitive social context - maybe. For a westerner to get hooked into this is basically just turning neoliberalism into spiritualism. I'm surprised to see someone who isn't a boomer (a boomer who does psychedelics) say these things with a straight face. What makes this idea credible other than it appeals to the aforementioned liberal moral and social values of equality, progress, fluidity, etc? He's not wrong because he is ignoring problems of exclusivity or logical fallacies or anything else he's wrong because he's basically taking Hollywood's values and synthesizing them with a philosophy from another culture because he feels that makes it more authentic and doing that is cringe.
Absolutely. It’s just the 1960-70s hippie philosophy repackaged to “keep the party going” by including more cultures as the world continues to get “flatter”. We’ve lived that out for 50+ years and it hasn’t actually done anything for American society except diminish the presence of Christian virtues.
The amount of hubris from Rainn is OFF THE CHARTS!!! Nobody 'needs" to live according to anyone else's ideas as to what is right or wrong. I live according to being authentic before my Savior, not according to what Rainn or anyone else thinks I should or shouldn't do. The amount of arrogance one has to have in order to say what he said - AND THE WAY HE SAID IT - is PSYCHOPATHIC!! I appreciate he "seems" to think he's on the side of right, but what good is doing what is right... IF THERE'S NO RELATIONSHIP OR CONNECTION TO THE CREATOR!?!
Ive also never found the claims of atheism to be compelling. It seems to be a logical fallacy to claim that with enough time that essentially anything os possible. Or that because the thing happened then it had to have come about by the way claimed.
I would also argue that Rainn has another assumed contradiction in his starting premise. He seems to presuppose that therrle exists an objective universal morailty inherent within all humanity that has existed since the beginning if time. This is tye same error that most atheists make. They don't realize that morailty is culturally relative. For example, the ancient Greeks thought the practice of exposure was perfectly in line with the morality of their culture. They would view it as inhumane to keep a child alive that had a physical, mental, or other sort of "defect". Whereas these athesists or universalists tend to err based on the dissemination and propogation of Western culture (based on Christian morailty) thoughout the world over recent centuries.
I will NOT be lectured about what is seemingly right or wrong from someone who doesn't have a relationship with Jesus, the Christ. To wit, based upon Rainn's own reasoning, what has HE done to "be a part of the solution." Jesus came for those who couldn't get themselves back in a relationship to God/the Father. RELIGION is man's utterly feeble attempt at trying to get to God/the Father. The Creator is PERFECT, we are not: this, we have ZERO HOPE to get to the Father on our own. HENCE, THE "NEED" FOR JESUS!
His views are just the same nonsense his crowd has bee spouting my entire life. The early church's message was a call to flee God's judgement, not some hippy movement.
How about the NT call to give away all one's possessions? To not get married? To not let women speak in church? To not lend money at interest? To live as if the end of the world will happen tomorrow? Let's face it, most Christians are making up their own religion and calling it True Christianity.
1: Christianity does not teach, nor does the Bible teach people to give away all their possessions. Jesus tells this to a singular man in the new testament, and only because he was rich and idolized his belongings. The text tells you this, but you ignored that for the sake of your religion
@@joeoleary90102: Scripture does not tell anyone to not get married. Instead, Paul advised people to not get married IF they could control themselves. This was because He thought it would be better for you in regard to serving God. However, he specifies that it is not a command and that anyone who wishes to be married should be. The text told you this, but you were too concerned with your own religion
@@joeoleary90103: The law to not charge money with interest is a good practice. But there is a particular context. It wasn’t just “don’t do this forever for all time in all situations.” Furthermore, it was a mosaic law, part of the old covenant and therefore, as Hebrews 7 and 8 say, since there has been a change in the priesthood, and since the priesthood changed, so did the law, and that change made 603 of the Mosaic law obsolete
@@joeoleary90104: No where in scripture does it ever once tell anyone to “live as if the world ends tomorrow.” But it does say to let our treasure be in Heaven, and pursue Christ. Regarding the end, the Bible instead tells us not to worry about it (the opposite of your claim) and it tells it to be comforted in knowing that it will come. Further, Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles give us various means by which to track the trajectory of the world and so we don’t imagine “it could end tomorrow.” You would know that but you are to concerned with your religion.
Progressive revelation is only true in the context of scripture. It is the idea that God, over time, has revealed Himself via the jews and concluding with the writings of the Apostles. Thats progressive revelation. What it is not, is an update to other religions or an experiment
I find it pretty ironic that a Trinitarian is invoking the Law of Non-Contradiction to explain what can or can't be true about religion and faith. Let your ears hear what your mouth is saying. If God can be Three "Persons," but still really and only One God; or Jesus can be fully and totally human, but still 100% Divine, then it is also COMPLETELY the case that God could reveal different, (just) apparently contradictory truths which all come together on a higher plane of reality, but in a way that human beings cannot comprehend now in this limited, finite existence. Think of it as the Trinity of Faiths, clearly different, but incomprehensibly one-except instead of only three there are many more.
Early christianity was not one single movement. It was very diverse until it became a state religion. Marcionite churches existed for hundreds of years and were very common. There was no agreement on the nature of Christs deity, the trinity, the biblical canon, salvation until hundreds of years after Christ.
This is false. Objectively so. You people who hate God and Jesus amaze me. You will lie even when faced with facts. In fact, telling you the truth is throwing pearls before swine
@@clarkcoleman8143 Catholic Encyclopedia defines marcionism: Heretical sect founded in A.D. 144 at Rome by Marcion and continuing in the West for 300 years, but in the East some centuries longer, especially outside the Byzantine Empire. Theres a quote from I believe Tertullian who warned his readers that when traveling to new cities, to ask leaders in the city about which church to attend, otherwise they were just as likely to enter a marcionite church as they were an orthodox one. And this is just one sect. Pre Nicea, there was even more diversity. None of this is controversial.
I've come to understand that anyone who quotes. Tim Keller seriously lacks spiritual discernment. Keller was a pro-abortion liberal who was always punching the conservative right, and always defending the liberal left every chance he could.
I could defend Keller, because I believe he was a good pastor and solid defender of the Gospel, but that won’t be fruitful. You claimed that those who quote Keller lack spiritual discernment. That doesn’t make any sense at all. You can quote someone without agreeing with them on all accounts. Your comment was just try by to stir up polarized debate with no real fruit in the end. Please stop doing things like that. God Bless
Correct. I'm trying to stir up a debate and challenge the current thinking. Just like Jesus and Paul did. Liberals/pro aborts who want to still feel Christian love Keller. I get it.
Your still ignoring God's plethora of post scripture miracles Gavin e.g. Eucharistic miracles, Church approved Marian apparition miracles, intercession of Saint miracles, intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary miracles , Holy Relic miracles, Holy Icon miracles, incorrupt body miracles, speaking in tongues miracles and Purgatory miracles. WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN TO GOD's POST SCRIPTURE VISIBLE MIRACLES GAVIN? Did God say you should?
The trouble is how much you guys don't see how those things steer the heart and mind away from God alone and therefore are not true godly miracles but satanic ones.
Michael Jordan: "Stop it. Get help." I'm a Catholic btw, I just don't think ranting at a youtuber in all caps is a rational way to get their attention. Start your own channel, become notable, then try and get his attention. Digitally yelling at someone isn't the way.
@@notavailable4891 If you don't like my defence against the disgusting accusations Gavin makes against the Catholic and Orthodox Church Church, including you btw, then tough.
@@heathobrien356 Some of the Pharisees who witnessed one of Jesus Christ's visible miracles believed Beelzebub was capable of replicating one of God's visible miracles and used "not true godly miracles but satanic ones" rhetoric in their plot to kill Jesus. And Judas was even worse. Nevertheless, Scripture acts somewhat of a boot camp on how to identify a visible miracle. God's visible "Miracle of the Brick to defend the Trinity: St Spyridon at the Council of Nicea 325 A.D." is amongst at least 100,000's of God's documented visible miracles post Scripture. When Jesus prophesized "greater" visible miracles/signs/wonders amongst Christians after Ascension, He was telling the truth according to the evidence that keeps accumulating.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Gavin: The God of the Universe is seeking us and wants a relationship with us! Alright, let’s lighten the mood. When people smile, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for its life.
Why is this comment pinned?
@ idk but I’m not complaining lol
😂
Can you trace your family tree all the way back to the apes? I’m just kidding bro if you’re a Christian, but if you’re pagan , you might be able too!
I don't want a "relationship with God". That sounds disrespectful and too casual toward God. It sounds like God is my boyfriend. I want a God I can WORSHIP and be in communion with.
Whenever someone claims all religions are essentially the same it shows they haven't really looked into any religion in any depth at all.
Not entirely. On the exoteric level the major religions do have vast and wide differences, but on the esoteric this isn’t the case. This is why the monastic/mystical schools of the major religions all basically speak to the same truth of non-duality. I would posit that it’s rather the opposite of why you suggest: anyone who claims all the major religions of the world are radically different hasn’t truly studied them.
@@IAMFISH92 I mean, at the very least anyone that has studied the religions can say that their theologies are vastly different.
@IAMFISH92 While all religions have a common purpose in claiming to tend to universally held needs of human nature, how and why one believes it is right differs diametrically. It is this that makes them so different and is not found without study. Mysticism and monasticism highlights more the problems that tend to join the embrace of those two leanings away from true religion. What someone might call mystic isn’t always evil. But it can breed a sense of inwardness that is foreign to Christianity and that is where it would depart from true religion.
@@IAMFISH92If you only mean the mystic schools of the Abrahamic religions are very alike, I’ll grant you a half point. Christian mystics and sufis, who intensely focus on the connection to Oneness, have far more in common than Kabbalah, which actually presents a *less* unified version of God than mainstream Judaism.
Broadened out to traditions that have less and less contact with the Abrahamic religion, your claims become more spurious. What does Aboriginal shamanism or Aztec polytheism have to do with the Abrahamic religions, ethically, metaphysically, ritually??
@@IAMFISH92You have it backwards. The religions have surface level similarities but their fundamental teachings are starkly contradictory. It’s actually disrespectful to them all to say they all teach the same thing.
"The eyes...are the groin...of the head..."
- Dwight K Schrute
Does that mean the penis is the eyes of the groin?
Love your videos Dr Ortlund, and hope everyone reading this has a wonderful Christmas
Would be really cool if Rainn saw this! I appreciate anyone making the effort that Wilson is going for here. He is striving to be a peace maker and I think that is a good thing. Would be VERY cool if you were somehow able to have a discussion with him on really any topic!
People in Hollywood are always heavily compromised, we don't need celebrity Christians we need faithful Christians.
Thank you Gavin. I saw this interview and thought it was interesting for all the reasons you did. Plus my entire family absolutely loves the office! I hope you and your family Have a Merry Christmas!
Rainn isn’t Christian, but I think it’s good he has these discussions, to hopefully at least get people thinking deeper about spirituality and religion, plus his journey of faith isn’t over, so who knows where he’ll arrive in 10 years. Something is better than nothing
he’s been a Bahai for decades, I don’t see that changing
@ Paul was a Jew from the day he was born
Gavin nailed it. Exclusivity and the Law of Not Contradiction. The Baha'i religion does not reconcile these in a logico-causal way and resists the need to. That is why you can not expect rationality and reason to be the grounds for reaching people like this (or anyone really).
Christianity itself is misdefined as a religion when we use a secular / unregenerate and fundamentally "non-onto-relational" framework as our starting point or frame of reference. This concedes too much ground and is in fact a fundamental category error. Christianity is Jesus Christ. If we place Christianity in the category of religion among the other religions of the world we have relegated it to a belief system defined outside of God's own "aposteriori " revelation of himself. That is we have not understood the way in which God has actually communicated himself to us in the person Jesus Christ and so we lump him in with all the other religious teachers.
This is the precise error that the Baha'i people make along with everyone else who misdefines Christianity.
I just happened to be wearing a Schrute Farms beets shirt this morning and this video came up!
“My truth” is way Rainn is saying.
The Truth is Jesus and what he taught.
Which is why when I came to Christianity and people were saying they were glad I found “what works for me” I was annoyed. Christianity isn’t my truth. It’s never something I would have believed if I wasn’t convinced it was just true.
What is this way of Jesus? According to the gospels it's giving away all one's possessions. It's also following the Mosaic law to the letter. Since few if any Christians are doing that, it seems that most are doing what works for them while claiming to "follow" Jesus.
@ Dang. Too bad 2,000 years of theologians and apologists have never answered these objections. Got me.
@@joeoleary9010 When people asked Jesus what he had to do to do the works of God, he said: This is the work of God, that you believe in him that he has sent.
Embrace that tension. Meditate on it. You feel you've found the truth; now realize there are people who feel _just as strongly as you do_ about their own epiphanies that aren't (on the surface) compatible with yours. So either you're extremely lucky to have happened to stumble into the uniquely correct religion, or you're just as wrong as you think the next guy is, _or_ maybe the 3rd option that every religion is a tiny, inherently limited perspective on God, has some merit?
@@InspironGantry You're thinking of Paul, not Jesus. Jesus was very clear that keeping every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law was a must.
As a Brit I have often found US remakes of shows failing to hit the mark shall we say, BUT, their remake of the Office was really good.
I enjoyed it a lot and wasn't left constantly comparing it to the original. The casting was fantastic.
Rainn is fun to listen to, and I'm glad you made this response!
He could well have said some things that speak deeply to help Alex see the reality of God.
I would pay to see you and Rainn have a discussion!! It would be so interesting!
Bro thank you for your insight into the situation. It’s never not appreciated🙏
We can also ask, by what standard do we decide that peace, love, and unity are the highest virtues? On whose authority does one submit to that standard, and what truths does he appeal to in order to decide whether that authority is really supreme?
I'm not a great philosopher, but that's what came to mind.
thank you for covering this!!
That thumbnail is hilarious 😂
Jim: “Bears… Beets… Battlestar Galactica”
Dwight: “That’s not funny, Jim!”
Can you review the debate Alex O’Conner just had with Cliffe and Stuart Knechtle? Alex and his partner Phil had a lot of thought out points that Cliffe and Stuart didn’t address. there were big arguments put forward by Alex and Phil, going against fine tuning, talking about animal death before the fall, the reliability of the gospels speaking on the morality of the Joshua conquests.
I fear that Cliffe and his son, just aren't very good debaters. That's not to say they don't have a big impact on peoples lives - but if they are faced with a question they can't answer in the moment, they go back to some metaphor that sounds profound but has little to do with the subject, which makes them look weaker in debates.
@ I completely agree. It was a bad look for them. And there were big arguments put forward by Alex and Phil, going against fine tuning, talking about animal death before the fall, speaking on the morality of the Joshua conquests. I think it’s a rich video for Gavin to look into.
O my! I am so glad to be this early, the interview was incredibly fascinating!
Ojai CA huh? Small world! Great video and unwrapped with such kindness and truth. Love your content!
Heavenly Father, please lift the dark veil that covers the deceived so that Your Light may enter into them. In Jesus’ name. Amen
"R is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why it's called 'murder,' and not 'muckduck.'" -Dwight K. Schrute
Dwight was low key the most moral and religious character on The Office. He was a lapsed Mennonite at least. "My German is pre industrial and mostly religious."😅
RW: "We are spiritual beings in the bodies of pasty monkey boys" 😂 I LUL'd so hard
Thank you for making this video. Please make a video about the Baha'i faith!
Respectfully of course (just trying to educate myself), is that an offshoot of Islam?
@RedeemedMusicanOfGod of Shia Islam more specifically, but bahais consider it to be a different religion not just what Mormons are to Christians but rather they see themselves like what Muslims are to Christians.
I have seen some videos refuting the "titles" of the core beliefs of the Baha'i faith but I have never seen anyone look and counter the counter arguments of the Baha'i (like a deep debate) it would be interesting to know
@@RedeemedMusicanOfGodAnd Islam has been persecuting since them since it’s inception unfortunately.
The apologetic world is very small on the Baha'i faith and the little that does exist isn't very good. In Baha'i apologetics thief in the night by William Spears is possibly the equivalent to Mere Christianity in influence on Baha'is of Christian background who have converted.
@@RedeemedMusicanOfGod Yes and no. They believe Baha'u'llah is both the return of the Mahadi and Christ.
Its been said a million times before, but Gavin, I really appreciate how humble and charitable you are in your approach to people who disagree with you. In my experience, many conservative Christians would be gnashing their teeth at guys like Rainn and insisting he's wrong 100 percent, but you're willing to point out where he's right in his philosophy while still offering a helpful, Gospel centered critique. Kudos to you.
I highly recommend to everyone the book: Your Life Your Game by keezano🙌🏼 I read it and it changed my life, it shows how connecting with God and your inner self can lead to spiritual growth and financial success. A must read…😊
great book
@@MisMariaRosee l agree
Strangely, the book isn't on Amazon and I can find no reviews of it. And more strangely, 73 people on this Christian forum upvoted. Something is amiss.
@@joeoleary9010 i found on keezano
@@joeoleary9010 This comment and the replies are from newer accounts, too, which is unusual.
“Criminals are like raccoons. You give ‘em a taste of cat food, pretty soon they’ll be back for the whole cat.” - Dwight K. Schrute
To a blind man, there is no distinction between men and trees (Mark 8:22-26) Somehow I can't see the Apostle Paul going to Athens and saying, "They're all the same, let's add Jesus to the gods at the Aeropagus" (Acts 17: 16-34).
I appreciate all the hard work you put into your work and keeping it biblical for Gods glory. God bless you brother.
Polycarp is a hero to Messianic Jews as well. He was a Quartodeciman like us. My grandfather and father have been to his tomb in Izmir. I want to go someday with my children but Turkey is not the safest place for Jews to visit these days. Hey that's an idea. You could do a video on the Quartodeciman controversy. Great video as always!
2:25 Worth noting that nothing has developed to make more sense out of those things in the years since he was in his 20's. The conversation has not budged an inch in favor of atheism despite the plethora of scientific studies dedicated to making sense of exactly these things. And arguably it makes far less sense now that we understand the depth of fine tuning and the entrenched paradoxes of abiogenesis.
Dwight was definitely one of the most memorable characters in the show and I hope Rainn comes to Jesus Christ.
Imagine Dwight as a Christian lol
Dwight Schrute is most definitely Dutch Reformed
Rainn is seeking Truth. This is wonderful. I hope he discovers the truly unique connection to the Divine that is found through Christ. And Rainn: All are still welcome. :) Find the true followers of Christ among all the bad actors, and you’ll find the 1st century Church again.
Great job. Sub’d.
I was SOOO close to becoming a Baha’i (Rainn’s faith) at one point, I still enjoy his Baha’i blogcast and have some Baha’i friends, God bless them. For me the smoking gun was a commentary by Shoghi Effendi (the authoritative interpreter of the Baha’i faith and grandson of Baha’u’llah) on the non-existence of the demonic. Basically demons/ evil spirits are metaphors for our badness… ah but an encounter with the demonic in a way I couldn’t rationally explain was THE REASON I initially stopped being an atheist formally and intellectually admitted there was something more to reality. To say my initial encounter and later experiences was just in my head, to dismiss lottery-level chance coincidences involving hidden knowledge, reason simply didn’t support that conclusion.
what an interesting story. thank you for sharing that.
For me the deal breaker with Baha'ism was covenant breaking. Its hard for me reconcile the harshness of covenant breaking and the mercy of the prodigal son. All the infighting between the descendants of Baha-u'llah is also off putting. Its plan for a one world government is also a bit strange. Considering all the infighting from the religions beginning. A fascinating figure to read up on the Baha'i faith is the christian missionary E.G. Browne who interviewed Baha'u'llah several times.
"while the teachings are admirable, in my view they are inferior to the simplicity and beauty of the teachings of Christ"
E.G. Browne
I honestly believe everything the Baha'is are looking for happened at penetecost. Some of my best friends are Baha'is.
Indeed, syncretism usually falls into the disregard of the specifics and divergences. When I was 10 years old I used to think this way, but then you realize that you’re applying western liberal philosophy (stemming from western Christian culture) into a world that in it of itself in it’s natural state is characterized for it’s lack of morality, we only gotta think of the Canaanites to understand that that was the norm throughout humanity’s history not a one time thing. Thank you Gavin for your videos! Thank you sir for how much help you have been for me and countless others who have found themselves curious or shaken in their foundations, for you have helped them tremendously. God bless 😁
My Dwight bobble head broke too😢
The video was interesting. Alex clearly pulled some punches to avoid embarrassing Rainn. I found it interesting he said he was a "red letter" Christian. Obviously not all the red letters don't square with his beliefs.
Dwight -
Through concentration, I can raise and lower my cholesterol.
Jim -
Why would you want to raise your cholesterol?
Dwight -
So I can lower it.
😂
"Through concentration, I can raise and lower my cholesterol at will."
- Dwight Schrute
enjoyed this
A great comment from this video is, concerning pluralism, you either believe that your way is right, or you believe your view of everyone else’s way is right.
amen
Excellent
How was I not subscribed to this channel? Good work here, but the best character on The Office is clearly Pam.
All these other religions have transformed somehow, it's only Christianity which says, okay, Jesus and God are what is important.
Hebrews 13:8 NKJV - Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Last I recall Rainn Wilson was a Baha’i. Study that at any depth and you’ll quickly find the inconsistencies. In fact, Gavin, I think you should do a video on Baha’ism.
No inconsistencies in Christianity, that's for sure. Just ask any Muslim or Jew, or poll any of the 30,000 sects.
Not enought apologetics on Bahaism and the little that does exist isn't very good.
Dwight is one of my favorite all time TV Charters. Up there with Barney Fife, Cosmo Kramer etc…..
I loved this video. At the end though, you said Jesus is right or wrong and either he rose from the dead or he didn't. But you believe that he rose from the dead right? I certainly do. I believe he is the way the truth in life. I have many faults in my life, and I'm the first to admit that. But I am trying to be a good child of our Lord and Savior. I really enjoy watching your videos keep them up God bless!
I think the “updating OS metaphor” can be used to describe the approach to Judaism and Greek philosophy of some Church Fathers-with the caveat that the ultimate and perfect update is Christianity.
What the gospel accomplishes makes updating absolutely unnecessary: forgiveness of sin, universal invitation, non-violent ethics, and a flexible praxis that makes cruciformity compatible for all societies. We don’t have to be Amish to be true Christians, or worship in a Byzantine style. Muhammad didn’t teach something about God’s grace that wasn’t already revealed in the Bible. What is Bahaullah offering that I can’t find in Jesus? In the interview he said Christians stopped following the gospel. Even if that was true, it doesn’t nullify it…
Grandpa, how did iPhone worship and the Church of the iOS start?
Rainn Wilson also had an interesting conversation with David Bentley Hart a little while ago: ruclips.net/video/dE9FL_8quaw/видео.htmlsi=0RvrfETPPfxwikVW
DBH views need attending to. If only for (but of course not only for) the fact he opens up the spaces in between attempts to quickly force an either/or and get all the buckets labeled and organized just so.
I know this is off topic but could you discuss in the future the story of Jesus and the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15? It’s always bothered me
Why has it bothered you?
All religions are trying to align with the truth of reality, but there’s only one that isn’t trying and instead reality revealed himself to us.
7:26 now apply that to protestantism vs catholicism
Apply how? Catholics and Protestants worship a different God?
@@joeoleary9010 Because Gavin makes an issue about Catholic exclusivism. And sees protestant inclusivism as a strength.
But when it comes to the view of this guy he changes the standard. And now its a bad contradictory thing.
Something tells me he's getting a new bobble head for Christmas
🤫😆
8:16 Be deaf, therefore, whenever anyone speaks to you apart from Jesus Christ, who was of the family of David, who was the son of Mary; who really was born, who both ate and drank; who really was persecuted under Pontius Pilate, who really was crucified and died while those in heaven and on earth and under the earth looked on; who, moreover, really was raised from the dead when his Father raised him up, who-his Father, that is-in the same way will likewise also raise us up in Christ Jesus who believe in him, apart from whom we have no true life. Ignatius of Antioch to the Trallians 9
Dr. Ortlund, thank you for all of your edifying content. There's a book that some have claimed change the game regarding the topic of icon veneration. I have pasted the book title below. I think it's worth a read/response if you're willing.
Early Icons: Christian Image Veneration Before 325 AD, Volume 1: Written Evidence and Paintings
God bless everyone reading this!
Well, that was a nice surprise.
Great video, what does this have to do with identity theft though?
That is a quote from the office. It might merely be that, but a potential tie-in is that Mr. Wilson's kind of pluralism is, in a sense, performing a type of identity theft on other religions by "stealing" their claims and names to support a different religion.
"Identity theft is no joke Jim!"
A true revival of the Christian faith would mean that Christians not only renounce their admiration of actors but also require that actors repent of their lives as actors before accepting them into the church.
That our culture loves actors and holds them as celebrities indicates only how upside down our culture is. Even pagan Rome viewed actors as the lowest class of society. That Christians participate in this is shameful. As deeply as Gavin knows church history, I am surprised he doesn't address this.
I'm surprised Gavin doesn't address the sin of watching RUclips videos and chatting one's life away on social media.
To paraphrase Dr Jung, "I don't believe God is real, I know it."
Both of the texts below are Baha''i.
As to Christ: He was a single, unique and lowly individual Who appeared at a time when the Israelitish nation had fallen from the heights of its glory to the lowest condition of bondage and contempt, subject to the tyranny of the Roman Empire, living under a yoke of humiliation, ignorant and negligent of God. The historical records of the Holy Books confirm these statements. Christ-this single and unique Personage-appeared amongst these despised and degraded people, reflecting a divine power and the potency of the Holy Spirit. He unified the various peoples and nations of the world, brought them together in fellowship and agreement and gathered them beneath the overshadowing protection of one Word. His prestige and mention were not confined to the children of Israel alone, who were at that time a limited race and people, but His spiritual power had also permeated and united great influential nations who had been warlike and hostile, such as the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Chaldeans, Syrians and Assyrians. He dispelled their hostility, healed their hatred, made them a united people, and by His Word created the utmost love amongst them so that they advanced immeasurably in the degrees of education and human perfection, thereby attaining a never-ending glory.
'Abdu'l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace
...
In every dispensation, there hath been the commandment of fellowship and love, but it was a commandment limited to the community of those in mutual agreement, not to the dissident foe. In this wondrous age, however, praised be God, the commandments of God are not delimited, not restricted to any one group of people, rather have all the friends been commanded to show forth fellowship and love, consideration and generosity and loving-kindness to every community on earth. Now must the lovers of God arise to carry out these instructions of His: let them be kindly fathers to the children of the human race, and compassionate brothers to the youth, and self-denying offspring to those bent with years. The meaning of this is that ye must show forth tenderness and love to every human being, even to your enemies, and welcome them all with unalloyed friendship, good cheer, and loving-kindness. When ye meet with cruelty and persecution at another’s hands, keep faith with him; when malevolence is directed your way, respond with a friendly heart. To the spears and arrows rained upon you, expose your breasts for a target mirror-bright; and in return for curses, taunts and wounding words, show forth abounding love. Thus will all peoples witness the power of the Most Great Name, and every nation acknowledge the might of the Ancient Beauty, and see how He hath toppled down the walls of discord, and how surely He hath guided all the peoples of the earth to oneness; how He hath lit man’s world, and made this earth of dust to send forth streams of light.
Demonic
Are you Baha'i?
Did Christ atone for our sins? Is he a person of the Trinity? You can write many nice sounding words without discussing the central claims.
Dr. Ortlund, I agree with your presentation of Christianity overall, but when you explain the basic message of the Gospel, you seem to emphasize the passive nature of our salvation in a way that is not only Protestant, but specifically Reformed/Lutheran. As a fellow Christian, I am happy to see you articulately present the Gospel to non-Christians, but I think it would be more effective if you did so in a manner that was less denominationally biased, especially seeing as Calvinists and Lutherans make up less than half of Christians worldwide.
There is no statistic for this.
@ScribeAlicious According to the latest population statistics I could find 'Half of Christians identify as Catholic, 37 percent Protestant, 12 percent Orthodox and 1 percent “Other”.' Also, even within the Protestant fold, Lutherans and Calvinists could be less than half, given how many Baptists, Pentecostals, Anglicans and non-doms are Arminian, plus the Methodists.
Thank you for watching that Alex O’conner’s video so I did not have to.
Dwight Schrute’s the best
Am I a part of the problem or the solution. Sounds exclusivist to me. Christ demands repentance and submission to Him alone. Hopefully, Rainn learns this and becomes a brother in Christ. Praying for him and other celebrities like him.
Who is Jesus? The distinction of who Jesus really is must never be understated or modified as relative truth. 1+1 is the problem; what is the solution? Not all solutions can be the correct solution. In fact, there can be only one solution, and all the rest are incorrect
Explain it if you would: What is the precise correct definition of who Jesus is, and what Jesus meant by "I am the way."
@@joeoleary9010 "what is the precise correct definition.." to keep in mind, my response was towards the video of Rainn Wilson's religious views. To say that all religions are compatible just by "upgrading" their details is to say that the solution to 1+1 could be 3 if 3 upgraded its detail by making it 2. Now, who is Jesus? Sure, Jesus in reality and the Jesus we perceive Him to be could very well be different. Which is why the biblical Jesus is important in understanding the correct Jesus. Even Jesus Himself attests to the reliability of the scriptures in Matthew 5:17-18
@@joeoleary9010 as for your question of what Jesus meant by "I am the way", you can Google this to see the various possibilities
@@fernandoformeloza4107 "Various possibilities" is correct. That's why I find the utter certainty of so many here who claim to be absolutely sure they're on the correct path and Rainn is a lost soul ...amusing.
@@joeoleary9010 "..Rainn is a lost soul". It's up to each individual to investigate for themselves the various possibilities when it comes to the lostness of one's soul, to determine whether or not they themselves are lost or not. When it comes to the biblical Jesus, however, the inclusive and exclusive teachings of Jesus give a compelling impression that faith in God through Jesus alone, especially now that we live in an era of the fulfilled revelation of Jesus as Christ, is the only way one who is lost can be found, and is not compatible with the other religions
I don't find his views very fascinating. The idea of a syncretic, fluid religion, that is always progressing towards greater truth where everything is one makes sense in a sort of primitive social context - maybe. For a westerner to get hooked into this is basically just turning neoliberalism into spiritualism. I'm surprised to see someone who isn't a boomer (a boomer who does psychedelics) say these things with a straight face. What makes this idea credible other than it appeals to the aforementioned liberal moral and social values of equality, progress, fluidity, etc? He's not wrong because he is ignoring problems of exclusivity or logical fallacies or anything else he's wrong because he's basically taking Hollywood's values and synthesizing them with a philosophy from another culture because he feels that makes it more authentic and doing that is cringe.
Absolutely. It’s just the 1960-70s hippie philosophy repackaged to “keep the party going” by including more cultures as the world continues to get “flatter”. We’ve lived that out for 50+ years and it hasn’t actually done anything for American society except diminish the presence of Christian virtues.
Liberal bad
@@VaushQ Correct. I can see you're a person of discernment and intellect.
You might have nailed it
Rain Wilson has a disgusting Twitter post history. "Jokes" that would make you puke. Completely ruined the show for me
The amount of hubris from Rainn is OFF THE CHARTS!!! Nobody 'needs" to live according to anyone else's ideas as to what is right or wrong. I live according to being authentic before my Savior, not according to what Rainn or anyone else thinks I should or shouldn't do. The amount of arrogance one has to have in order to say what he said - AND THE WAY HE SAID IT - is PSYCHOPATHIC!! I appreciate he "seems" to think he's on the side of right, but what good is doing what is right... IF THERE'S NO RELATIONSHIP OR CONNECTION TO THE CREATOR!?!
🤘
If the head falls off the image in your office, try moving the ark out of the office. Maybe send it along on a new cart.
Ive also never found the claims of atheism to be compelling. It seems to be a logical fallacy to claim that with enough time that essentially anything os possible. Or that because the thing happened then it had to have come about by the way claimed.
I would also argue that Rainn has another assumed contradiction in his starting premise. He seems to presuppose that therrle exists an objective universal morailty inherent within all humanity that has existed since the beginning if time. This is tye same error that most atheists make. They don't realize that morailty is culturally relative. For example, the ancient Greeks thought the practice of exposure was perfectly in line with the morality of their culture. They would view it as inhumane to keep a child alive that had a physical, mental, or other sort of "defect". Whereas these athesists or universalists tend to err based on the dissemination and propogation of Western culture (based on Christian morailty) thoughout the world over recent centuries.
Most Christians cheerfully support the atrocities in Gaza. So much for the Christianity is a must for morality argument.
I will NOT be lectured about what is seemingly right or wrong from someone who doesn't have a relationship with Jesus, the Christ.
To wit, based upon Rainn's own reasoning, what has HE done to "be a part of the solution."
Jesus came for those who couldn't get themselves back in a relationship to God/the Father. RELIGION is man's utterly feeble attempt at trying to get to God/the Father. The Creator is PERFECT, we are not: this, we have ZERO HOPE to get to the Father on our own. HENCE, THE "NEED" FOR JESUS!
It's easy to believe in God.
His views are just the same nonsense his crowd has bee spouting my entire life.
The early church's message was a call to flee God's judgement, not some hippy movement.
How about the NT call to give away all one's possessions? To not get married? To not let women speak in church? To not lend money at interest? To live as if the end of the world will happen tomorrow? Let's face it, most Christians are making up their own religion and calling it True Christianity.
1: Christianity does not teach, nor does the Bible teach people to give away all their possessions. Jesus tells this to a singular man in the new testament, and only because he was rich and idolized his belongings. The text tells you this, but you ignored that for the sake of your religion
@@joeoleary90102: Scripture does not tell anyone to not get married. Instead, Paul advised people to not get married IF they could control themselves. This was because He thought it would be better for you in regard to serving God. However, he specifies that it is not a command and that anyone who wishes to be married should be. The text told you this, but you were too concerned with your own religion
@@joeoleary90103: The law to not charge money with interest is a good practice. But there is a particular context. It wasn’t just “don’t do this forever for all time in all situations.” Furthermore, it was a mosaic law, part of the old covenant and therefore, as Hebrews 7 and 8 say, since there has been a change in the priesthood, and since the priesthood changed, so did the law, and that change made 603 of the Mosaic law obsolete
@@joeoleary90104: No where in scripture does it ever once tell anyone to “live as if the world ends tomorrow.” But it does say to let our treasure be in Heaven, and pursue Christ. Regarding the end, the Bible instead tells us not to worry about it (the opposite of your claim) and it tells it to be comforted in knowing that it will come. Further, Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles give us various means by which to track the trajectory of the world and so we don’t imagine “it could end tomorrow.” You would know that but you are to concerned with your religion.
Dr Ortlund, be honest, were you idolizing your Dwight bobble head like Dagon in 1 Samuel 5 🤔😂
Tim Keller was the man. Not saying he was perfect, but online critics of his today are short-sighted and frankly getting over their skis.
Ah yes the man who says a lot of right things… but agrees with neo Marxist ideas like critical race theory
I think you failed to really address the implications of progressive revelation. Your position on the iPhone metaphor is begging the question.
Progressive revelation is only true in the context of scripture. It is the idea that God, over time, has revealed Himself via the jews and concluding with the writings of the Apostles. Thats progressive revelation. What it is not, is an update to other religions or an experiment
"All you need is Jesus? False. The four basic religious necessities are air, water, food and icons”
U seem confused: air,water, and food benefit the physical body. Icons become idols.
Only Jesus Saves!!!
I find it pretty ironic that a Trinitarian is invoking the Law of Non-Contradiction to explain what can or can't be true about religion and faith. Let your ears hear what your mouth is saying. If God can be Three "Persons," but still really and only One God; or Jesus can be fully and totally human, but still 100% Divine, then it is also COMPLETELY the case that God could reveal different, (just) apparently contradictory truths which all come together on a higher plane of reality, but in a way that human beings cannot comprehend now in this limited, finite existence. Think of it as the Trinity of Faiths, clearly different, but incomprehensibly one-except instead of only three there are many more.
Early christianity was not one single movement. It was very diverse until it became a state religion. Marcionite churches existed for hundreds of years and were very common. There was no agreement on the nature of Christs deity, the trinity, the biblical canon, salvation until hundreds of years after Christ.
This is false. Objectively so. You people who hate God and Jesus amaze me. You will lie even when faced with facts. In fact, telling you the truth is throwing pearls before swine
@ my friend, I love God and Christ. Just stating facts. You can look them up.
Please document centuries of Marcionite churches. Thanks in advance.
@@clarkcoleman8143 Catholic Encyclopedia defines marcionism: Heretical sect founded in A.D. 144 at Rome by Marcion and continuing in the West for 300 years, but in the East some centuries longer, especially outside the Byzantine Empire. Theres a quote from I believe Tertullian who warned his readers that when traveling to new cities, to ask leaders in the city about which church to attend, otherwise they were just as likely to enter a marcionite church as they were an orthodox one. And this is just one sect. Pre Nicea, there was even more diversity. None of this is controversial.
I've come to understand that anyone who quotes. Tim Keller seriously lacks spiritual discernment. Keller was a pro-abortion liberal who was always punching the conservative right, and always defending the liberal left every chance he could.
I could defend Keller, because I believe he was a good pastor and solid defender of the Gospel, but that won’t be fruitful.
You claimed that those who quote Keller lack spiritual discernment. That doesn’t make any sense at all. You can quote someone without agreeing with them on all accounts. Your comment was just try by to stir up polarized debate with no real fruit in the end. Please stop doing things like that.
God Bless
Correct. I'm trying to stir up a debate and challenge the current thinking. Just like Jesus and Paul did. Liberals/pro aborts who want to still feel Christian love Keller. I get it.
Your still ignoring God's plethora of post scripture miracles Gavin e.g. Eucharistic miracles, Church approved Marian apparition miracles, intercession of Saint miracles, intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary miracles , Holy Relic miracles, Holy Icon miracles, incorrupt body miracles, speaking in tongues miracles and Purgatory miracles. WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN TO GOD's POST SCRIPTURE VISIBLE MIRACLES GAVIN? Did God say you should?
Are the incorruptible bodies admittedly coated in wax? I'm pretty sure I saw a jay dyer clip going over these claims.
The trouble is how much you guys don't see how those things steer the heart and mind away from God alone and therefore are not true godly miracles but satanic ones.
Michael Jordan: "Stop it. Get help."
I'm a Catholic btw, I just don't think ranting at a youtuber in all caps is a rational way to get their attention. Start your own channel, become notable, then try and get his attention. Digitally yelling at someone isn't the way.
@@notavailable4891 If you don't like my defence against the disgusting accusations Gavin makes against the Catholic and Orthodox Church Church, including you btw, then tough.
@@heathobrien356 Some of the Pharisees who witnessed one of Jesus Christ's visible miracles believed Beelzebub was capable of replicating one of God's visible miracles and used "not true godly miracles but satanic ones" rhetoric in their plot to kill Jesus. And Judas was even worse. Nevertheless, Scripture acts somewhat of a boot camp on how to identify a visible miracle. God's visible "Miracle of the Brick to defend the Trinity: St Spyridon at the Council of Nicea 325 A.D." is amongst at least 100,000's of God's documented visible miracles post Scripture. When Jesus prophesized "greater" visible miracles/signs/wonders amongst Christians after Ascension, He was telling the truth according to the evidence that keeps accumulating.
Even the demons know and fear. Demonology 101.
ruclips.net/user/postUgkxVS8I8T0EDvXjPC-9RIWr-urTFQtFR5Vh?si=uEYNn-JwhDFsg4_H