I was a bit confused on why the OCG Fire King decklists are used instead of a potential TCG build. If OCG Sprights were competing here, they would have the searchable Maxx C, Halq, and 2 Called By in their decklist as well, which would've been huge. It was a big reason why they were Tier 0 in the OCG. Do you think it would've made a big difference?
Yeah at the very least remove maxx c and the extra called by/crossout from fire king so it can emulate how we'll most likely play it in the tcg at full power so the playing field can be even
The lists are mostly taken from real primier tournaments to be faithful at how the decks were played at the time. There's no standard build for Fire King snake eyes on the TCG yet, so having an OCG one is the best option. And this match really wasnt decided by that, Maxx C only came up last game where spright probably just loses regardless. Snake eyes won the dice roll, won the games it went first and lost when it went second, nothing out of the ordinary here.
It would have played a role in that there wouldn’t be any Maxx C but Maxx C didn’t even really come up all that much in the match. I think the main reasoning for the decision is just that there isn’t any TCG lists right now so you can’t really know what the deck would actually be like. It’s unlikely but maybe the TCG would go crazy and ban island just before PHNI comes out or there’s some TCG exclusive cards in there that means the deck plays completely differently.
09:06 The Tear mirror's appeal is to showcase the difference in power level between the variants. Danger-Tear vs Firekings is also not bad, to give an estimate of the power level of the upcoming 2024 meta, though that isn't super relevant for the next Cross Banlist Cup, since it won't include Firekings yet, no? In that case Danger-Tear vs Mannadium or Vanquish Soul would be better, but those haven't been featured prior.
@@rueblie2627 Similar reason why Kashtira wasn't in the 2023 C.B. cup I would assume - the deck is too new, there will be little to no TCG tournament result lists to go by for it when the C.B cup 2024 starts.
@@sephyrias883 Fire Kings have had tournament results, the structure deck came out in early December and since the cup probably isn’t going until February I think you could take lists from any of the events up until then, like YCS Bologna. It wouldn’t be the snake-eyes version but I wouldn’t include that anyway for the same reason it wasn’t Ishizu Tear in 2023
Ishizu Tear VS Snake Eyes Kings would be nice to see, just to see how the "Uber Tier 0" stacks up to current year (less than 12 months and it feels like powercreep already reached back Tear)
Tear would slam Snake Eyes Kings. Higher power level and they counter them. Being able to play on Turn 0 and getting shufflers in grave potentially disrupt Snake Eyes Fire Kings really hard.
Geez, I wonder which deck would win in Ishizu Tear vs Tear match up. Fire Kings vs Tear would probably be much more enjoyable match than kashtira vs tear though.
@@Unknown-Duelist true, but fire king stand no chance vs ishizu tear. 1. Ishizu cards destroys fire king so bad. Without GY access fire king is bad. 2. Fire kings removal is mostly destruction based, which is bad vs tear since you proc all their effects, 3. Tearlaments interactions are NON-destruction which is the best removal vs fire kings. 4. Fire king lists dont run bystials in side... The match is simply extremely tilted in ishizu tear favor. Also, there is a reason why ishizu tear is not the CBC. Lithium himself said that the deck is far to strong.
As always great content and again another year full of excitement due to the CBC series! Can‘t wait for 2024 as I really much enjoy the group stages and the making of the groups! Just a side note though: From my point of view the Power Creep especially with the past two years is huge compared to the era‘s beforehand (i.e., Tear, Ishizu, Kashtira even Spright Frogs and obviously 2024 is going to be crazier!)
This is kind of what I was worried about with the “challenger approaching” thing. That the newer, full powered decks would just come through and steamroll all the decks that actually had to make it through the bracket
Somewhat 50/50 with this one, the side deck for firekings is ill equipped to handle spright at full power. if these decks existed at the same time though, fk would have the big advantage via just being able to side 3 drnm and thats gg
This wasn't a steamroll at all though. Post 2020-ish, newer decks aren't always the better decks. Ishizu Tearlament for example would steamroll these new fire decks.
Yeah, a lot of people are under the impression that Tear in general is just an unbeatable Tier 0 deck. Seeing how much the Ishizu cards actually do would be a wake-up call to those people.
@@randumo24 These people must have missed Danger Tear's performances in the CBC, for instance. It was probably stronger than Spright but not nearly as unbeatable as Ishizu Tear.
Sorry Lithium, but you don't know how to play Fire King Snake-Eyes that well. Game 1, you won regardless but instead of getting demolished by Nib, you can play around it by using Flamberge at 0:45 to put Populus in S/T, so you can send that with Original Sinful Spoils instead of Linkuriboh. This allows you to keep Flamberge on field until you make Princess. If you get Nibbed here, you can still link up into Amblowhale. In Game 2, I think it would have been smart to Imperm early in the turn, then use Kirin to pop Kirin in hand (yes it's a quick effect, you can use it on your opponent's first turn!). This allows you to summon Garunix and pop Arvata in deck to revive the Kirin. In End Phase, Arvata resolves and pops Kirin, which revives the Arvata and pops a card (or baits the Toad negate). Regardless, you end your turn 0 with 2-3 huge bodies to immediately contest the board. I actually believe this game was winnable. In Game 4, at 6:53 instead of making Anima, you should have gone to BP and crashed the Ponix into Elf. That triggers Garunix in hand to SS itself and dump Kirin, which revives the Ponix and pops Carrot, then Garunix kills the Elf. MP2, Garunix + Ponix = Hiita, ss Carrot, make Princess and attempt to go into Amblowhale. The DD Crow would blow you out here but it's better to put them on "better have it." If you make Amblowhale, you're not guaranteed to win at that point but you're in a very good position.
Not really as much as you think. The power in the mirror matches went to whomever had control of the shufflers. Ishizu Tear would be able to just shut down all of Danger Tear's plays whereas the Danger version isn't capable of the same.
Close match as I anticipated. I would love to see a rematch between full power spright and full power fire kings without Maxx C. It could honestly go either way for a future rematch.
i reallly want to see ishizu tear vs fireking unironicly, just to see how crazy that matchup is, ishizu prob favored with shufflers but id like to see for sure
really not fair with spright not having access to sprind and to maxx c compared to the Snake-eye deck which has all of its support and maxx c on top of it which kinda makes the match up already 1 sided for the most part.
Full power spright teched according to the meta is above full power fire king snake eye. And if we talk OCG both decks lose hard to Maxx C so this shouldn't be the deciding factor. Spright was in fact tier 0 in the OCG but we have to take into account that it had to compete against Despia/Swo swo and not against rescue ace purrley and so on so this is also not relevant for this discussion. Both decks are similar power level but spright has a higher ceiling with Toad
I took a break from YuGiOh around 2010. When I returned, four years later, Fire Kings were the first "new" deck that I picked up. I instantly fell in love with the insane, self-destructive playstyle (the Garunix loop). The Rekindling & Wolfbark techs were the cherry on top. While I love that they've gotten such powerful support, and are now considered a strong deck, I _am_ also disappointed that the best way of playing them is just _more Link climbing._ Like, I get it: this is just what the game is now. This is just how "good" decks function now. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Their "Dark Hole on Legs" playstyle was really unique, I felt, and I'm a bit sad to see that side of them get totally passed up.
what i wonder how this fairs against tearlamen. even without ishizu should fir king just be such a horrendous matchup against the "please destroy my cards with card effects" deck
Game 1 should’ve been an easy clap. Instead of using ash and populus in s/t zone, you could have just summoned ponix, and send the continuous spell after activation to summon the flamberge which keeps nib at bay for two summons anyways and can allow you to pop ponix for bird, bird destroy Arvata, arvata summon bird and link into princess. If they nib there, you use snake eyes eff to summon two and keep going. Bad plays
Literally never came up so not an argument in this case. He drew Maxx C once and it got negated by the 1 of called by so yea, this best of 5 match felt more of a tcg v tcg version.
@@AndrewUdal It didnt get negated by called by, did you not see the lancea? But you are correct that its not really an argument, spright won when it went first, and lost when it went second, nothing strange about it
@@arielgomes7989 oh damn whoops missed that. Well that’s a rip. Well at the very least it’s 50-50 for full power Spright and fire king tcg versions then.
I dont understand the comparation, tcg version without maxx c and a ocg banlist with maxx c, in this case fk has 0 card in banlist 2 called and maxx c, without them for my opinion spright is better.
MaxxC backed by Lancea to shut down Called by and Evenly... yeah. Stop playing maxxC deck vs non-maxxC deck please. Also, for the next match I suggest Kashtira Tear if you don't want to play Ishizu Tear, because Photon Hypernova was released in 2023 and brought Kashtira Tearlaments. You can find many Kashtira Tear list in OCG, they even discarded the Ishizu engine in favor of Kashtira, or many TCG players also made Kashtira Tear lists prior to the PHHY release.
Maxx c wasnt relevant in the match and people complain anyways 😂 well... Haters gonna hate, trolls gonna troll, unicorns gonna unicorn (?. In a serious note, i hope the next match is the last one so we can close the last years CBC and move to the next one 👌🏻.
I think maxx c should just be banned from use tbh (unless its an older deck) It totally undermines the purpose of the banlist when a newer ocg deck has it. It's not about the decks power at that point if you draw it
![[Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel] Ultimate Lockdown combo](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qqk-Oao06_c/mqdefault.jpg)
Spoiler Barrier
Lancea game 5 was a crazy hand trap to have.
No ronin, evenly, called by, prosp.
Insane
I was a bit confused on why the OCG Fire King decklists are used instead of a potential TCG build. If OCG Sprights were competing here, they would have the searchable Maxx C, Halq, and 2 Called By in their decklist as well, which would've been huge. It was a big reason why they were Tier 0 in the OCG. Do you think it would've made a big difference?
Probably no particular reason. It's supposed to be a mix of TCG and OCG decks and so maybe he just happened to choose a TCG list for Spright
Yeah at the very least remove maxx c and the extra called by/crossout from fire king so it can emulate how we'll most likely play it in the tcg at full power so the playing field can be even
The lists are mostly taken from real primier tournaments to be faithful at how the decks were played at the time. There's no standard build for Fire King snake eyes on the TCG yet, so having an OCG one is the best option. And this match really wasnt decided by that, Maxx C only came up last game where spright probably just loses regardless. Snake eyes won the dice roll, won the games it went first and lost when it went second, nothing out of the ordinary here.
It would have played a role in that there wouldn’t be any Maxx C but Maxx C didn’t even really come up all that much in the match. I think the main reasoning for the decision is just that there isn’t any TCG lists right now so you can’t really know what the deck would actually be like. It’s unlikely but maybe the TCG would go crazy and ban island just before PHNI comes out or there’s some TCG exclusive cards in there that means the deck plays completely differently.
This is generally a very mid spright list, like, it doesn't even have sprind
09:06 The Tear mirror's appeal is to showcase the difference in power level between the variants.
Danger-Tear vs Firekings is also not bad, to give an estimate of the power level of the upcoming 2024 meta, though that isn't super relevant for the next Cross Banlist Cup, since it won't include Firekings yet, no? In that case Danger-Tear vs Mannadium or Vanquish Soul would be better, but those haven't been featured prior.
I see no reason why the next cup wouldn’t have fire king in some form
I mean this game has already shown us a glimpse of power level of the 2 era, go first have fun
@@rueblie2627 Similar reason why Kashtira wasn't in the 2023 C.B. cup I would assume - the deck is too new, there will be little to no TCG tournament result lists to go by for it when the C.B cup 2024 starts.
@@sephyrias883 Fire Kings have had tournament results, the structure deck came out in early December and since the cup probably isn’t going until February I think you could take lists from any of the events up until then, like YCS Bologna. It wouldn’t be the snake-eyes version but I wouldn’t include that anyway for the same reason it wasn’t Ishizu Tear in 2023
Ishizu Tear VS Snake Eyes Kings would be nice to see, just to see how the "Uber Tier 0" stacks up to current year (less than 12 months and it feels like powercreep already reached back Tear)
Would definitely agree
nothing can reach tear tho
Tear would slam Snake Eyes Kings. Higher power level and they counter them. Being able to play on Turn 0 and getting shufflers in grave potentially disrupt Snake Eyes Fire Kings really hard.
Geez, I wonder which deck would win in Ishizu Tear vs Tear match up.
Fire Kings vs Tear would probably be much more enjoyable match than kashtira vs tear though.
Feedback noted!
Not ishizu tear vs fire king. The matchup is too much in favor of ishizu tear.
@@LexxusTheSpark
It's the battle of who's the strongest deck. That's the main purpose of this Cross banlist cup.
@@Unknown-Duelist true, but fire king stand no chance vs ishizu tear.
1. Ishizu cards destroys fire king so bad. Without GY access fire king is bad.
2. Fire kings removal is mostly destruction based, which is bad vs tear since you proc all their effects,
3. Tearlaments interactions are NON-destruction which is the best removal vs fire kings.
4. Fire king lists dont run bystials in side...
The match is simply extremely tilted in ishizu tear favor. Also, there is a reason why ishizu tear is not the CBC. Lithium himself said that the deck is far to strong.
@@LexxusTheSpark
No question. Ishizu Tear is the best
As always great content and again another year full of excitement due to the CBC series! Can‘t wait for 2024 as I really much enjoy the group stages and the making of the groups! Just a side note though: From my point of view the Power Creep especially with the past two years is huge compared to the era‘s beforehand (i.e., Tear, Ishizu, Kashtira even Spright Frogs and obviously 2024 is going to be crazier!)
Tear vs Tear! Waiting for it
This is kind of what I was worried about with the “challenger approaching” thing. That the newer, full powered decks would just come through and steamroll all the decks that actually had to make it through the bracket
Somewhat 50/50 with this one, the side deck for firekings is ill equipped to handle spright at full power. if these decks existed at the same time though, fk would have the big advantage via just being able to side 3 drnm and thats gg
This wasn't a steamroll at all though. Post 2020-ish, newer decks aren't always the better decks. Ishizu Tearlament for example would steamroll these new fire decks.
worst part lithium using an OCG list with 3 maxx"c" lmao
Honestly doing Danger Tear against Ishizu Tear sound interesting, just to showcase how much stronger this already potent deck got.
Yeah, a lot of people are under the impression that Tear in general is just an unbeatable Tier 0 deck. Seeing how much the Ishizu cards actually do would be a wake-up call to those people.
@@randumo24 These people must have missed Danger Tear's performances in the CBC, for instance.
It was probably stronger than Spright but not nearly as unbeatable as Ishizu Tear.
Pretty much a hand trap battle,who combo First Win.
I think tear vs ishizu tear just to show first hand how much of a different league ishizu tear was on
No spoilers!
Gotta watch that tear mirror. It would be funny as hell.
Sorry Lithium, but you don't know how to play Fire King Snake-Eyes that well.
Game 1, you won regardless but instead of getting demolished by Nib, you can play around it by using Flamberge at 0:45 to put Populus in S/T, so you can send that with Original Sinful Spoils instead of Linkuriboh. This allows you to keep Flamberge on field until you make Princess. If you get Nibbed here, you can still link up into Amblowhale.
In Game 2, I think it would have been smart to Imperm early in the turn, then use Kirin to pop Kirin in hand (yes it's a quick effect, you can use it on your opponent's first turn!). This allows you to summon Garunix and pop Arvata in deck to revive the Kirin. In End Phase, Arvata resolves and pops Kirin, which revives the Arvata and pops a card (or baits the Toad negate). Regardless, you end your turn 0 with 2-3 huge bodies to immediately contest the board. I actually believe this game was winnable.
In Game 4, at 6:53 instead of making Anima, you should have gone to BP and crashed the Ponix into Elf. That triggers Garunix in hand to SS itself and dump Kirin, which revives the Ponix and pops Carrot, then Garunix kills the Elf. MP2, Garunix + Ponix = Hiita, ss Carrot, make Princess and attempt to go into Amblowhale. The DD Crow would blow you out here but it's better to put them on "better have it." If you make Amblowhale, you're not guaranteed to win at that point but you're in a very good position.
Danger Tear vs Ishizu Tear would be really funny to watch. So much playing back and forth on each other's turns.
Not really as much as you think. The power in the mirror matches went to whomever had control of the shufflers.
Ishizu Tear would be able to just shut down all of Danger Tear's plays whereas the Danger version isn't capable of the same.
Una partida de alto vuelo, muy reñida, gran nivel, podía estar para cualquiera.
Close match as I anticipated. I would love to see a rematch between full power spright and full power fire kings without Maxx C. It could honestly go either way for a future rematch.
Ishizu Tearvs Fire King 100%
i reallly want to see ishizu tear vs fireking unironicly, just to see how crazy that matchup is, ishizu prob favored with shufflers but id like to see for sure
@3:37 why didn’t you use Called by for Toadally?
he had judgment from the prosperity, so it didn't matter
really not fair with spright not having access to sprind and to maxx c compared to the Snake-eye deck which has all of its support and maxx c on top of it which kinda makes the match up already 1 sided for the most part.
Full power spright teched according to the meta is above full power fire king snake eye. And if we talk OCG both decks lose hard to Maxx C so this shouldn't be the deciding factor. Spright was in fact tier 0 in the OCG but we have to take into account that it had to compete against Despia/Swo swo and not against rescue ace purrley and so on so this is also not relevant for this discussion. Both decks are similar power level but spright has a higher ceiling with Toad
Maybe Ishizu Tear vs Fire King
I’d prefer to see tear vs fire king rather than ishizu tear
danger tear vs fireking!
Ishizu tear vs fireking?
Fire is in its dino era
The fact that you were Evenly'd for 7 and still ended that turn with 5 monsters on board is just disgusting
Power Creep :)
I took a break from YuGiOh around 2010. When I returned, four years later, Fire Kings were the first "new" deck that I picked up. I instantly fell in love with the insane, self-destructive playstyle (the Garunix loop). The Rekindling & Wolfbark techs were the cherry on top. While I love that they've gotten such powerful support, and are now considered a strong deck, I _am_ also disappointed that the best way of playing them is just _more Link climbing._
Like, I get it: this is just what the game is now. This is just how "good" decks function now. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Their "Dark Hole on Legs" playstyle was really unique, I felt, and I'm a bit sad to see that side of them get totally passed up.
Tear vs kash would be cool. Also maybe match some of the winners against each other
Do both decks
ishizu tear vs kash with shifter
That Lancea the last game was absolutely disgusting
what i wonder how this fairs against tearlamen. even without ishizu should fir king just be such a horrendous matchup against the "please destroy my cards with card effects" deck
I personally prefer tear vs fireking, because the mirror would have the ishizu side dominate. it hard counters the tear deck if they are at all seen.
the ht in g1 was so random
As awesome as these matches are, I would actually prefer the 2024 cup to start soon. January is already almost over.
That's not fair, FK have Maxx C but Spright don't.
Next Ishizu Tear vs Fire King full power. Nahh. It's obvious who's gonna win.
He couldve played around nib game one by making the ip without the flamberg
Game 1 should’ve been an easy clap. Instead of using ash and populus in s/t zone, you could have just summoned ponix, and send the continuous spell after activation to summon the flamberge which keeps nib at bay for two summons anyways and can allow you to pop ponix for bird, bird destroy Arvata, arvata summon bird and link into princess. If they nib there, you use snake eyes eff to summon two and keep going. Bad plays
i mean if you give maxx to any deck it can beat spright easily
Literally never came up so not an argument in this case. He drew Maxx C once and it got negated by the 1 of called by so yea, this best of 5 match felt more of a tcg v tcg version.
@@AndrewUdal It didnt get negated by called by, did you not see the lancea? But you are correct that its not really an argument, spright won when it went first, and lost when it went second, nothing strange about it
@@arielgomes7989 oh damn whoops missed that. Well that’s a rip. Well at the very least it’s 50-50 for full power Spright and fire king tcg versions then.
@@AndrewUdal Full power Spright? Without Sprind?
Do you mean Fire Kings without Maxx C?
@@xCorvus7x fire kings without Maxx C vs pure spright with sprind.
game 2 u bonfire - they toad - u called by they cant chain elf cause u have no monster?
Elf doesn't care whether they control a monster.
@@xCorvus7x You can't reborn toad if your opponent doesn't control a monster
@@MistBestWaifu Oh, right, if their board is empty, you can only bring back Level 2s.
Sry.
Spright needed maxx c and sprind to be considered full power, u should choose only tcg list for all decks, not ocg vs tcg .
I dont understand the comparation, tcg version without maxx c and a ocg banlist with maxx c, in this case fk has 0 card in banlist 2 called and maxx c, without them for my opinion spright is better.
Predictions: FK is too bricky, awkward and will just lose to the hts. 3-2 spright
So FK is playing a dogshit list with main crossout and wins dieroll then gets insanely lucky in the other games. Fair enough lol
MaxxC backed by Lancea to shut down Called by and Evenly... yeah. Stop playing maxxC deck vs non-maxxC deck please.
Also, for the next match I suggest Kashtira Tear if you don't want to play Ishizu Tear, because Photon Hypernova was released in 2023 and brought Kashtira Tearlaments. You can find many Kashtira Tear list in OCG, they even discarded the Ishizu engine in favor of Kashtira, or many TCG players also made Kashtira Tear lists prior to the PHHY release.
Maxx c wasnt relevant in the match and people complain anyways 😂 well... Haters gonna hate, trolls gonna troll, unicorns gonna unicorn (?. In a serious note, i hope the next match is the last one so we can close the last years CBC and move to the next one 👌🏻.
I think maxx c should just be banned from use tbh (unless its an older deck) It totally undermines the purpose of the banlist when a newer ocg deck has it. It's not about the decks power at that point if you draw it
First