⚡️RV SURGE PROTECTORS - Worth the Cash??? 🤑
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
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"Jack and Stormy Daniels"
Quote of the week.
Im a fan of Jack but you do you
One thing that gives me a vote of confidence is plugging in my camper to a electrical post that is charred and black that is the same outline as the plug! Too funny use protection
Definitely a great line of defense for the RV when plugged into shore power but not required when running your generator. That's me. Happy camping all! 😊
Probably a little late for this comment, but yes, we use the portable 30 amp EMS from the video...BUT...I plug in a 30 amp extension cord to the shore power outlet, then plug my EMS into the extension cord, then plug my RV power cord into the EMS. I check the LED panel and then leave it safely locked in my electrical compartment of my motorhome. I checked with PI and they said that this method is actually preferred as it completely protects it from theft and the elements. BTW, our first time using it was in 100* temperatures in a Branson campground. The electrical load on the campground was huge with all the air conditioners running and we saw the unit trip due to low voltage.
Great tip. Thanks!
Thanks for this great idea.
My mind was still going down the “how canI improve upon the chain lock “ rabbit trail when I saw your comment. How simplistic -- and brilliant!
That gives you how long of the cord? 120 feet? isn't it long?
@@projet2907 No. Maybe 15 or 20 extra feet.
"Jack and Stormy Daniels" -- Come for the wisdom, stay for the wit! (Hope you guys are doing well!)
That one cracked me up too!
Surge protection should be built in the Rv
We do have an EMS surge protector. It is a built in Progressive Industries EMS 50 amp unit. We are grateful for having one!
My wife and I enjoy your channel . Your wealth of knowledge , common sense approach to trouble shooting AND your excellent sense of humor keep us hooked .
The funny stickers you put on the generators was a classic . Best wishes from Daytona Beach .
Is it really pathetic that I keep checking RUclips on Sundays for the next Loloho video? Anyway - another great video. Yes we have a surge protector, one of the El Cheapo models (Surge Guard 44260) that hopefully nobody wants to steal. It's one of those things that you don't really know how good it is until you need it, and then, of course, it's too late but it's good to know we have some protection. Just one thing - I always plug in the surge protector alone and flip the circuit breaker so I can check how good the power is before plugging the trailer in to the protector. Just a little extra precaution. By the way, did anyone else think Sean looked like he'd been duck hunting the way he was holding those two surge protectors?
now that you mention it, it did, and my brain didn't figure it out
Yes, it is pathetic! You have better things to do on the weekend. Check for new videos on Tuesday. (Nothing much else happens on Tuesday, and you avoid the Monday holiday thing.)
I have the same one. super easy and cheap and I do the exact same thing I plug it in to check. It saved our trailer in Kansas due to a faulty wiring.
Yes, he looked like he was carrying either 2 chickens or 2 ducks. Lol. Great minds think alike.
I was the first thing I bought for my brand new TT. I installed a built in Progressive Industries unit and it was money well spent. And yes, I paid a lot of Disney Beers for it because I am Canadian ☺️🇨🇦
I have the bright yellow one . Used it in heavy rain last winter.No problems,worked great
We have a Surge Guard 3350 hardwired model permanently installed inside the rv. Only been on the road a month but it seems to work as we have had no problems so far. Enjoy your videos very much.
Thanks for the video Sean good job as always.
Thank you for this video! Bought one after seeing this and I can't even imagine how much you just saved me as my camping neighbor blew out his electronics due to an issue with the park power this past weekend! For certain his AC is toast... Your wisdom is my savings! Blessings and smooth travels to you both!
Wow! Yes, better safe than sorry! That's a shame about your neighbor's AC. Hope your unit serves you well!
Yep, I use. CAMCO 30 AMP PD, and now it has a steel ring you can hook a lock through. 🙂
Years ago we lost an air conditioner due to bad power. In our current camper we have a hard wired built in system with a remote display to see what's going on. Well worth it because it has cut the power when it gets low or high. The system has a delay in turning the power back on to allow to monitor the power and this feature will also save your air conditioner from getting turned back on right away.
We use a Progressive model surge protector and it has saved us a few times in parks where the power pedestal had wiring issues. We even found out that our house wiring had a open ground which kept popping the GFSI circuit, which was fixed but found buy the surge protector. We always use it as an insurance policy now. One issue we found with the video, we plug the surge protector in the pedestal first, turn on the power and let the surge protector "Test" the power. If all alright, then we plug the surge protector into the power cable to the trailer and turn on the circuit.
Surge protection is important if you want no electrical problems. I always put a lock on mine. Get one and save your electronics. Thanks for the great video.
Yes I use a surge protector. Years in the maintenance game have given me proactive wisdom.
I just started RVing and I got the Progressive Industries’ 50A unit to protect our brand new Airstream. Small price to pay for peace of mind!
Yep, I got the Big Yellow one. I don't want to replace my camper electronics. What I like about it is it protects against spikes, brownout conditions and miss wired posts.
I've got a Surge Guard. However I went 30 years without one. A few months ago, My neighbor in a Houston RV park was telling me about his $8,000 damages due to the campground electrician wiring up something wrong. (The campground picked up the tab). He don't leave home without one now. The Surge Guard is real good and the LED show the amps drawn which is really handy.
We use the Progressive Industries 30 amp surge protector. It was one of the first items we purchased after getting our trailer. It’s well worth the money to protect our investment in a new trailer.
I have a different model, but it probably paid for itself on our first trip, in the fact that one RV park had an open ground at our site. It is the only time we had a problem, but am glad we bought it. I personally plug the surge protector in, then turn on the power. If everything is okay, I turn the switch off, then I will plug in the power to the trailer, and turn the power back on. That way if there is a problem at the power pole, there is no chance of it ruining my trailer.
Yes we use a surge protector. A progressive one. We use it everywhere we plug in. A heavy thunderstorm can knock out the power. Big surge when it comes back on. Happens in state parks here in PA. An ounce of protection on an expensive rig.
I use the Progressive Industries one just like what you showed. I had one to fail a year ago and they replaced it, shipped it to my home at no charge. I highly recommend it.
Very true, I’ve lived in Las Vegas since 2013. If it isn’t bolted to the ground, it may get stolen. RV batteries, empty propane tanks, electric tongue jacks (not very often), weight distribution hitches if left on truck, and most of all….. catalytic converters.
Great video as always, Sean; and nice camera work too, Christy!
This is one of those items that you don’t need until you do, and then it’s too late to decide.
Our Progressive Industries model saved us at our last campground. It was an older facility and they had been doing some maintenance but someone got the polarity wrong at our pedestal. Our unit told us what the problem was and we reported it to the manager who was first skeptical, but came down and checked it out. Sure enough, the wires were backward and he fixed it right there.
Sean, you mentioned the delay in the units passing power to the RV. That is to protect the air conditioning units. If power fails momentarily while the compressors are running, the EMS unit delays passing power for something like 200 seconds to let the pressure bleed off the compressor.
Yes we use one....the black one but a less expensive one 😊
On the yellow Chinese unit: loop your cable through the connector handle and cinch it around the power post.
Love the "Steal me yellow" HA! So they're gonna build an elevator to space(so they claim), yet these things are still the size of a Vietnam era field radio and so expensive. I think someone's R&D departments are sitting idle. Lol. Great vid and awesome special effects 👍🏻
Sometimes watch other RV channels but you two are the gold standard. I don't know what it is, but there's just something about you two as a couple that sets you apart.
We have a 50 amp Progressive. In three years of travel it has protected us three times. Well worth the investment.
me too Allan, the first item I replaced in the used TT I bought was the decades old converter. The 2nd item I installed was the Progressive Industries 30 amp hardwired Surge Protector...money well spent. I see low voltage at campgrounds more often than expected. the surge protector saves my laptop, microwave oven, and all the other electric/electronic devices on our rig.
We have the Progressive 50AMP hard wired. We paid around $300 (30 beers at Disney World), but well worth the peace of mind.
Yes - purchased the Progressive one shown on the video a few months ago. Does give you additional piece of mimd when connected to power. Better safe than sorry when it comes to electrical components on the RV. Thanks for the videos!
"Reagan era" electronic display... love it!
I am new here, and we are just starting out as full time RVer. Thank you for posting this video. I never thought about a surge protector, so this was news for me. I will be checking in to it very soon. Thanks, I am sure there’s a lot of things I haven’t thought of as of yet.
We just got our first RV and are presently in it. We didn’t risk it, got the Camco one. Definitely worth the peace of mind. Love your channel.
I use the same PI 30 amp as you show in this video. It is cheaper than replacing things like the converter, air conditioner, etc.
Great information. We never have purchased an in-line surge unit. I carry an outlet tester to check for floating neutral/grounds, but does not connect inline. I know a surge is possible or more likely a brownout, but I can’t wrap my head around needing one. Most houses do not have any type of surge suppression, and if you have a large spike ( transformer fail, or lightning strike) a surge suppressor will most likely not be able to capture and redirect that energy. For the area we camp in (PA) we are fortunate to have a lot of state parks that keep a well maintained electrical system. Enjoy your videos.
I have a Progressive portable 30. Camped down in FL post hurricane and it shut down & saved my RV electrical system during periods of unstable electrical currents. “Just saying” :)
Thanks for the great video! We’ve used two RV surge protectors, the Surge Guard 44260 and the Progressive Industries EMS-30. The Surge Guard was comparatively inexpensive, but we felt the device offered less protection than the Progressive Industries model. Long story short: we visited an RV Park with old wiring and ended up seeing a shower of sparks from the power pedestal. Afterwards, the pedestal was dead, no help was available in the park and we had to figure out what to do. The Progressive Industries model provides more information on power issues than the Surge Guard.
The devices are expensive, for sure. So is a MacBook Pro. So is a smartphone. Televisions can be pricey. I don’t think the price is that big a deal compared to peace of mind. 4 wheel drive is rarely used but when you need it, you need it.
I have the EMS-HW50 that has saved me many times. I agree that not having protection is just rolling the dice. Some may say I use my meter to check the Pedestal power before plugging my RV in. Yes that's great. What you have just found that the power is OK at that moment. You may say we only stay at reputable RV campsites and they have good power. I will detail one of the times that we were saved. We were at a Rally in a State Fairgrounds in July in a Southern state. All was good until 10 pm the first night when the AC shutting down alerted me to our loss of power a check of the display showed that the daytime voltage of 122 VAC was now 137 VAC. It turns out that with all the RV's coming in for the rally and the State Fair being held the next week the local power company moved a tap so that we didn't brown out (have low voltage) and the voltage increased as load went down on the system and as people went to bed or stores closed for the night. This continued for two more nights until the Utility dialed down the voltage. Those of us that had protection lost power and those who didn't blissfully slept the night with their power on, AC running, and didn't know that they were damaging their RV.
So while the voltage was at an acceptable level when I connected to the power pedestal it wasn't all the time
I installed the Progressive 50am in my RV. It protects against surges, which happen all the time even in sticks and bricks houses and causes your tv, computers and other devices to have shorter lives. Just as importantly, when a surge happens and the surge protection is blow, it can be replaced without buying a whole new unit. Power protection is important as well, having lost a few electronic devices because the neutral and hot lines were reversed.
I don't have an RV, but all of my electronics in my house and office are plugged into surge protectors and I replace them occasionally. Once I did not shut down my computer and it was plugged into the wall, and there was a storm overnight. I had to buy a new computer, a new garage door opener, a new coffee maker, new lots of things after that. It really happens. If I get an RV when I'm retired, I'll get the whole RV permanently wired in surge thing AND a portable one too. I'm more risk averse since I fried a computer.
Yest I picked up my 50 amp ems surge protector. Better safe than sorry. Truly love your show, Keep up with the good advice.👍🇺🇸🚌🇺🇸🇺🇸
Just sold our home and bought a 5th wheel to live in full time and have a surge protector recommended by a close friend and plugged it in before we ever connected to shore power. Not taking dumb chances.
I hardwired a 50 amp from Progressive industries. Love the readout to tell me exactly what is happening electrically.
We purchased a Surgeguard. It cost even more Disneyland beers than the 2 models in the video. I went to Ace hardware and bought a short length of 3/8 braided stainless steel cable. They crimped it on both ends to create a loop I can run my cable lock through and around the power post.
I will definitely be buying a surge protector for my trailer. I've been trailer camping 40 years and never had a problem until last summer. Had a power surge during a severe electrical storm and fried my load centre. Cost me over 400$ for repairs. Thanks for the video, very entertaining.
We use a Surge Guard surge protector. This is our second one as the first one had a light burn out. The company replaced it at no charge.
I have the Progressive Industries version that is mounted inside the RV. I have found out that what you don't know (without a surge protector) CAN hurt your RV. Recently, I found out that a transformer was changed near our house that resulted in the 120V line voltage was actually at 135V!!!! and the EMS took the RV off line. I called the power company and they came out and changed the taps on the transformer so now it is closer to 128V. I am going to be purchasing more ESP devices for my house. So it can happen when not at a campground. Never had a problem before in 40 years of camping and this happened at my house....
We have not used a surge protector so far but have experienced low voltage at the power pedestal. We will be purchasing a surge protector very soon.
For those do it yourselfers, read the warranty information on the hardwire surge protectors. Some warranties are voided if not installed by a licensed shop.
I have one not made in USA and it’s never been needed but always been installed since I’ve heard of it.
We use a Progressive Ind. 30 Amp, hardwired into the trailer. Went with hardwired version for 2 reasons. I didn't want another item to store, and the second is because of the theft risk. Have the remote display model, and are very satisfied with it. Thanks for the great videos. Please, keep up the great work.
We went many years without protection. We parked next to a couple one weekend and saw this thing hanging from the power pole. I asked him what it was. He told me they went to a really nice rv park, plugged in, and moments later smoke was pooring out of their trailer. After they got it fixed they bought a protector. Later we bought a new trailer and bought a surge protector
In 8 years of camping (without protection), the only problem that I ran into was low voltage on a hot evening when everyone's air conditioner was overtaxing the supply system. I turned off my power and drank a beer at my picnic table. My hypothesis is that a campground without a properly designed and protected power distribution system will not stay in business very long.
Thanks for the info, we don’t camp as much as I would like to, but it only takes once, to ruin your stuff. I worked for the phone company before I retired, we always told our customers to use surge protectors for their phones in case of storms or power outages, that should apply to all electronics too. I ignorantly didn’t apply this to our trailer duh! That’s why I like to watch you show. I ordered the AC/DC black, through your Amazon store. You guys are the best!
This was one of the first things I purchased after we bought our new trailer. The trailer was a big investment and I want to protect it. Thanks for your videos. I look forward to them every week. Hope your health is on the upswing. You look great!
I have the Progressive Industries 313.1168 SSP30X and use it at every place I plug in, even if I plug into a friends sticks and bricks. You can never be too careful. I agree ALWAYS use protection.
I bought a Progressive EMS 30 amp hardwired unit 2 months before buying my trailer. During the first season (last year), the EMS detected 2 instances with power pole issues and saved my trailer. Love your vid's!
Great video. The two units discussed are more than just surge protectors, they monitor the incoming power to keep the RV safe. During the use if a situation arises that is outside the safe zone, volts, polarity or power surge the units shuts the power off to the RV. A regular surge protector will only protect from surge but they cost much less. To be fully protected buy the better unit. An additional feature to look for is auto reset that will reset the power when the problem has been corrected. Very important if you leave pets in the RV with the A/C on.
Helpful video for newbies. We regularly use a Camco secured to the power post with a bike lock and cable as you describe. We have not had any power faults yet. Did see an RV vlogger video where all campsites had reverse polarity detect by their surge protector.
I am from Oklahoma very well known for it's power surges and storms. I have not had a problem with an unstable power supply at campsites, but I have had lightening strikes. I had a cheap $100 surge protector and lightening fried it and did $500 worth of damage to the powerbox inside. The RV company said that if it had not been for the surge protector than it would have caught fire. I now own a much more expensive and sophisticated one. I now keep my bumper pull hooked up to one religiously. Thanks for your video. I don't ever comment but I really enjoy y'alls videos.
Thanks for the comment. Sounds like you got your money's worth out of that surge protector!
Yes it sure did! It also taught me not to go cheap when it comes to protecting the RV's power supply. During a tornado we had a 100% loss on our old bumper pull and 50% loss on our new one (which was repaired). The same year was when our new one was hit by lightening and spared by the surge protector. If an RV'er values his/her rig at all, they will get a surge protector! I pray all is well with your brain tumor. I have been praying for you.
Yes we use a progressive 50 amp on our open range 5th wheel. Last year at Base Lake near Syracuse NY we had Low Voltage issue due to overloaded circuits at campground. On Friday when the big rigs came rolling in and the sun actually shone ( doesn’t do that often near the Great Lakes) the air conditioning draw overload began. We actually shut our electric off for a couple hours until the voltage level came back up to a safe level. Don’t want to replace things like circuit boards in furnace air conditioner fridge oh and those tec items for you kids. Buy a good one.
If you go to a Marine or Boating Supply store they have the cables and they have the clamps to crimp onto the cable. Take your surge protector and crimp an eye loop around the cable of the surge protector and then make another eye loop at the other end of your steel cable making sure the cable is about 2 feet long. Then it can wrap around the pole and you can lock it to itself. Total cost will be about $5. It's basically the same concept as the bicycle cable but one end will be permanently attached to the surge protector.
A few beers worth of protection to save your electronics seems to be a reasonable tradeoff. We use the progressive industries hardwire 30 amp.
Even though I’m over 60 years old I still use protection. (Yes)
I absolutely have a 30amp surge protector for our travel trailer, it’s definitely worth the money
I have a Class A with a residential refrigerator. Unfortunately a surge protector was not one of my first purchases. One day the refrigerator failed. No RV dealer will service a residential refrigerator, so I had to find a local appliance repair service. It seems a circuit board was fried. I honestly cannot say whether a surge protector would have prevented the damage. But after paying for the $425 repair, I quickly made that purchase. By the way, I'm glad it was just a circuit board, because I really don't know how anyone would remove and replace a residential refrigerator in a motorhome.
Always used one; to best knowledge of my , I never needed one, but that may change at any time! Thanks.
Glad that we have one. Bought a new generator from Home Depot and the protector found that the generator was wired with reverse polarity. That can be a very dangerous problem. We have not had any other issues with power but I always use the protection.
I had problems with a 30 amp power plug at a KOA . The plug prongs were old and somewhat lose. My protector did its job and protected my TAB teardrop. I contacted the operator. When they came to my camp site they took the protector off. They told me it was not for sites like theirs. it was for portable power unites. I told them politely what it was for. after they left I plugged it back in. I reduced my power usage and all was ok.
I was just talking with an RV tech who went to a site for a two week old rig that smoked it's converter and several other electronic components. The campground had a wiring issue that management knew about and did nothing. They would've been protected by the R2 unit and still happily camping.
Great video, Sean. Love your sense of humour!
We have the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C hard-wired (30A) unit in our travel trailer. Had one in the previous trailer, too. We've seen low voltage so often (below 104 VAC - where the EMS shuts down power) that we bought a Hughes Autoformer to boost voltage so the EMS won't shut down the power.
I suggest that using the term "surge protector" is not accurate for the 2 devices you showed in this video. They do a lot more than just protect against power surges and that's what's great about them. We've never seen a power surge since using the Progressive Industries EMS units, but have seen miswired pedestals, low and high voltage - all of which the EMS protects us from. I wouldn't bother with a unit that is just a surge protector.
Just purchased a Progressive Industries 30amp surge protector after 4 years. Before buying it I would check the receptacle with a plug circuit checker before plugging in our Toy Hauler.
Yes, we have one, and it is an expensive space consuming object but nice to have on those very rare times we have hookups.
I have two
One I left at daughter's house non functioning
Came back two years later and it's working
Guess it needed to dry out
In the meantime I had replaced it.
Now have a backup
Nice video, love CA Prop 65 note... Unless you touch the circut boards and wiring I think your ok. On another note I bought the Camco 30A Defender last year with our new RV. It worked 3 times then it malfunctioned. I contacted them and their customer service was great, they paid for shipping to return it to have it repaired I had it back within 30 days. It's been working fine since.
I have a Technology Research 50 AMP Surge Guard. Provides lots of diagnostic info as well as the piece of mind, given the replacement cost of all the electronics it protects.
ive Never Used My Rig On Shore Power. i only Dry Camp With Two Champion 2k Gens, But if I Ever Did Stay At An Rv Park, Then Yea, I Would Use A Surge Protecter. Thanks For the Video. Fun To Watch As All Ways.
We use Progressive Industries 50amp. It has shut the AC off before due to low voltage at a Florida State Campground. It shuts down below 106 to 108 volts to protect your equipment. A neighbors system got fried at another park. So it provides peace of mind protection.
I've always relied on the built in transfer switch - which says it is also a surge protector
In the last eight years it has saved me 3 times
1 - high voltage 132 on one leg - the built in device would not connect the transfer switch ( no power into the coach )
2 - bad neutral - would not let power into the coach
3 - Low voltage ( 103 volts ) - would not let power into the coach
I just purchased a new renegade Verona - this coach has a transfer switch ( which claims it has surge protection ) but renegade recommends you use a surge device like the ones in this video - I'm going to buy a power watchdog from Hugh's Autoformers - looks like this is a very good unit for under $ 300
I installed a PI EMS-30HW in my Motorhome, and am very happy with it. When I sell it I will probably buy a portable PI unit. Only other one I would consider is the Surge Guard brand by Southwire. By the way, they are way more than a surge protector, they are a full service power protector.
I got lucky. My RV was plugged in on my driveway and while we weren't home there were two different power outages and a power surge that fried my power relay box on my 35' class A. I am shocked that was the only damage. After finding a suitable replacement relay box (yes I know a lot about electricity and wiring) I also added a lifetime warranty portable surge protector just outside the relay box but inside the RV cabinet. Why? Because it won't get stolen and if it gets damaged from a surge, I can disconnect it and still connect to power while I send the unit in for repair/replacement under warranty. Remember that surge protectors give their lives to protect your RV. Get one with a lifetime warranty. That damage is covered.
Love the SMOKED power pole plug at 7:06! Seems that lots of folks don't turn off the breaker as they plug in or extract their power cord! And maybe run everything in their RV all at once....a lot!
yes I use a surge protector on mt TT. Have had power outages in RV parks.
I really enjoy your channel, keep up the good work. I use a Technology Research Surge Guard 34830 and it doesn't have an innate locking method so I put a large padlock around the upper cable with a chain that I lock to the power post. I hope this will help others in securing their own power protector.
I had a built in Progressive on my last travel trailer and I plan to install one in my new fifth wheel. I did buy a Hughes Power Watchdog and love the Bluetooth monitoring. I can watch the power draw in amps or watts on my phone with the app. It's really interesting seeing which leg of the 50 amp service things are connected to. Mine has been in the rain and no problems so far.
Hi Sean and Kristy! Great to see you out and about on the road again. Watched this video while sipping on some Makers Mark (shameless shout-out)! Anyways, we do have a surge protector for our 40-foot fifth wheel. We learned our lesson the HARD way back in May 2008, while camping in Sugarloaf Key in our previous 27-foot travel trailer. There was a strong thunderstorm overnight that hit one of the power poles someplace on the grid during the night. It woke us up from a dead sleep, as all sorts of electronics started to beep, pop, and smoke. We lost the DC converter, radio, and television. Thankfully, our air conditioner and microwave were spared any damage. Having learned our lesson, we currently use an older version of the Progressive Industries SSP-50X...
Yes We have a 50 amp Progressive portable surge protector (our Jayco is 30 amp but may upgrade to a 50 amp trailer in near future). I do lock it at campgrounds and do enjoy the peace of mind.
Scott Lockwood scott is it safe to use a 50 amp. For a 30 amp. Rig. Sorry Im not surge savvy at all.
Stilllearng101mom 101want2 yes it is safe. Your 30 amp system will only pull what it needs so having 50 amp service will only supply up to 30 amps. Totally safe. I do it all winter in AZ
Thank you
Absolutely need one. We went with the Progressive 50A hard wired model. Always there & I’ll never forget to pack it when we break camp!
Would not be without for PI Surge Protector. Had it on our 30amp camper and t saved our electronics several times due to low voltage and miswired power pedestals. It became the first item we bought for the new 50amp 5er.
Returned a cheapie and ordered this upgraded model due in part to your recommendation. Learning a lot from you guys as we just made the plunge and bought our first travel trailer. Thanks!
For me, i bought my 50 amp progressive industries surge protector. Hardwired unit before i even had taken delivery of my new rig. Safety first, plus if your gonna drop tens of thousands of hard earned money for the rig.. a few hundred dollars for the piece of mind is well worth it!
I use a portable surge protector, I took the advice from others. It was cheap insurance compared to the damage could happen if I did not have one.
Have the built-in(50amp) Progressive unit. Cost many cases of cheap beer, but it isn't walking off. The Jack and Stormy reference evoked a serious grin:)