BANNED For Cheating.

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  • Опубликовано: 25 апр 2024
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Комментарии • 1,6 тыс.

  • @javierfernandez4896
    @javierfernandez4896 15 дней назад +1763

    Danny sending their errand boys (Gotham, Naka) to convince everybody that their site and star competition (Titled Tuesday) is clean and under control ... LOL

  • @yeetyfreety6938
    @yeetyfreety6938 15 дней назад +1582

    I like to imagine that Levi just appears in places, and that there was no logistics behind him getting there. He goes to bed, and then just suddenly wakes up somewhere new.

    • @jasonhargis5598
      @jasonhargis5598 15 дней назад +28

      This explains a bunch

    • @ericley6479
      @ericley6479 15 дней назад +14

      Levi is the whoopsie guy from mortal kombat only in my youtube and for chess

    • @samiraperi467
      @samiraperi467 15 дней назад +6

      Or a Quantum Leap kinda thing.

    • @djrickmedley
      @djrickmedley 15 дней назад +11

      He’s unlocked fast travel

    • @pernajuel9771
      @pernajuel9771 15 дней назад +13

      He probably only spawns in when the camera starts rolling tbf

  • @coltith7356
    @coltith7356 15 дней назад +240

    When you report someone on CS:GO and it says "report 1541514867146874858 submitted", the 1541514867146874857 previous reports were Kramnik flagging everyone who killed him as a cheater.

    • @Nitidus
      @Nitidus 15 дней назад +30

      For the current state of CS2, 95% of his reports would be accurate.

    • @detrotsid
      @detrotsid 12 дней назад +3

      Except CS:GO doesn't exist anymore, it had a rampant cheating problem, and its successor, CS2, also still has a rampant cheating problem. It's obvious to the eye test, like if you're playing against spinbots etc., but also at higher levels. Just last week, FPL banned their highest rated player for cheating.

    • @elsyvien
      @elsyvien 11 дней назад +1

      ​@@detrotsidnot FPL (free pro league) it was a faceit ban

  • @FocusBeam
    @FocusBeam 15 дней назад +1147

    Kramnik frantically trying to find the Infinity Stones to destroy half of Hikaru’s pieces

  • @digiscream
    @digiscream 15 дней назад +413

    The important consideration, which none of the GMs seem to acknowledge, is...how much of the perception of cheating is accounted for by the higher-rated player having a bad day and not wanting to admit it (yes, even GMs)? I mean...I'm 1250 rapid, 1000 blitz and I hammered an 1800 in a blitz tournament earlier in the week. Obviously, he gave me loads of abuse, accused me of cheating and reported me, but...he made a series of blunders that an 800 would've been embarrassed by. Put simply, he was having a crap day, was playing on tilt and took it out on a player 800 points lower-rated.

    • @mikeanderson1722
      @mikeanderson1722 15 дней назад +59

      Totally agree with this. Also factor in someone like me with 150 IQ and an attention deficit, who can go from scatterbrained to world beater and back in a very short amount of time. My rating is some kind of average between those two extremes and depending on when you play me, I might either be amazing or a moron.

    • @ahz4877
      @ahz4877 15 дней назад +24

      Same thing happened to me even with less of a rating difference in a rapid game. I'm sometimes sharp with tactics and I was accused of cheating but I wasn't cheating nor I was banned.
      Conversely, last year I played 1 game at 98% and I wasn't accused of cheating nor was I cheating either, just played 1 brilliant Vienna game with white.

    • @LonnieDucote
      @LonnieDucote 15 дней назад +26

      Yep. Elo rating is not an objective rating where 1 point means you never lose. It’s a way to determine who is more likely to win, and the more games they play the more likely the rating is to be accurate
      An 1800 can lose to a 1000 but it’s just incredibly unlikely, and as you showed sometimes that happens. If you played him 100 times it might only happen a few times but it will happen statistically

    • @lunatickoala
      @lunatickoala 15 дней назад +14

      Yeah, there's a couple of other important factors as well. Even if cheating isn't widespread, the *perception* that it is affects players mentally. Not being in a good mental state can really affect performance, causing a player to perform below their potential. Whether it's Levy facing a GM or a GM facing someone they think is cheating (even if they're not), there's a real chance that they perform worse. Thinking that there's cheaters everywhere causes people to start seeing ghosts.
      But the other factor is that when playing online, it's possible to play a lot of games. Even if cheating isn't widespread, play enough games and you will encounter some. Then things like confirmation bias and availability heuristic will then make it seem like there's a lot more than there are. That sort of mentality is ingrained into the psyche. In the wild, it's better to see a hundred bears that aren't there than to not see one that is.
      I wonder if people who started out playing online are better able to just brush off games where their opponent cheated and just move on without getting tilted by it.

    • @otimelyofficial8146
      @otimelyofficial8146 15 дней назад +26

      @@mikeanderson1722bro your iq is not 150 stop the cap😂😂😂

  • @somerandomdudefes31
    @somerandomdudefes31 15 дней назад +579

    The fact that Kramnik didn't even pretend to read the report before being upset with it... everyone needs someone in their life they can trust to tell them when they're losing their mind.

    • @Gefionius
      @Gefionius 15 дней назад +42

      Kramnik automatically doesn’t like anything that was not authored by Kramnik

    • @noahblack914
      @noahblack914 15 дней назад +37

      Right? There's no pleasing the dude. He wanted reports, they made a report, he won't even bother to look at it unless it means his own pedantic requirements. He thinks he's some sort of statistical authority just bc he's good at a board game.
      Maybe he should put his money where his mouth is and hire some independent statisticians to look at it.

    • @nonchablunt
      @nonchablunt 14 дней назад

      Russians haven't had someone like this for 300 years.

    • @junaidahmad1492
      @junaidahmad1492 13 дней назад

      It would be nicer if someone would say "I agree with point x that Kramnik made but disagree with point y". But as always, thinking is hard and hating is easier.

    • @Gefionius
      @Gefionius 12 дней назад +1

      @@junaidahmad1492 ironic then that Kramnik did not do this either, he made his criticisms prior to reading the report and his blog posts this entire time have been extremely dismissive of other people’s work. If one does not engage in reasonable debate and discussion, why would you expect that from others?

  • @eccentricbass3730
    @eccentricbass3730 15 дней назад +2216

    Kramnik hasn’t only been mildly reckless. He has completely destroyed his reputation and credibility.

    • @heinmiiink3806
      @heinmiiink3806 15 дней назад +51

      if you're talking about his own reputation, thats true

    • @donkarnage6986
      @donkarnage6986 15 дней назад +16

      and thats your opnion after a few tweets ?

    • @penknight8532
      @penknight8532 15 дней назад +2

      No such thing as bad publicity.
      More people know who he is now.

    • @anasmurshid3987
      @anasmurshid3987 15 дней назад +140

      @@donkarnage6986 throwing accusations of cheating just because you feel like it is truly unpleasent. He accused Hikaru just because his rating is as near as the top engine althought he streams his games.

    • @Josharoo
      @Josharoo 15 дней назад +67

      @@donkarnage6986 it hasn't been just a few tweets lol

  • @drunkenhobo8020
    @drunkenhobo8020 15 дней назад +637

    He lied to us, this looks even more like a hostage situation than the previous video.

    • @nathanherr1473
      @nathanherr1473 15 дней назад +15

      He said he would have a better set up next trip, not next video

    • @sergiob8501
      @sergiob8501 14 дней назад +2

      i just want to say thanks to germans for allowing him to still posting this video!❤

    • @zz4165
      @zz4165 13 дней назад

      ------
      |

    • @kicRick
      @kicRick 13 дней назад

      ​@@sergiob8501Germans? 🧐

    • @auramyst3627
      @auramyst3627 13 дней назад +2

      @@sergiob8501dude what

  • @alphaportal97
    @alphaportal97 15 дней назад +76

    Saying kramnik is mildly reckless, is like saying dumbledore spoke calmly to harry during the GoF meme

  • @mtn2704
    @mtn2704 15 дней назад +544

    Levy never fails to have a beef with his barber

    • @timellis9293
      @timellis9293 15 дней назад +17

      Edward Scissorhands?

    • @John-hh5kx
      @John-hh5kx 15 дней назад +2

      I have those problems also

    • @ryuk5673
      @ryuk5673 15 дней назад +3

      😂 👌

    • @johnnyappleseed4158
      @johnnyappleseed4158 15 дней назад +10

      I feel for the Jewish Kings out there that hair game is just wild

    • @taiiiz3969
      @taiiiz3969 15 дней назад +2

      What are the origins of the never fails bit?

  • @_JeffJeff_
    @_JeffJeff_ 15 дней назад +386

    0:40
    "Vladimir Kramnik has been mildly reckless"
    MILDY?!?!????

    • @minchy9094
      @minchy9094 15 дней назад +3

      HMMMMM
      Nah what you on aboutttttt

    • @NoobSharkey
      @NoobSharkey 15 дней назад +3

      But there are streamers you MUST watch, I mean basicaly it is absolutely nessesary to watch them, literally you must do it, watching some streamers, that is what I really mean, some of them are must watch.
      You just literatuly lost your mind if you dont watch them, I mean it is sad but means you are completely crazy and you dont know what are you talking about when streaming yourself, if you dont watch them.
      And, another thing,Anish, what all those insuniations like "I dont watch streamers" mean? Can you just come out and tell openly that you hate the most prominent one? Just cone out and say this directly, I know you mean it. Just say this, dont hide under "I dont watch it" bs 🙂

    • @marquisdelafayette-xe1ht
      @marquisdelafayette-xe1ht 15 дней назад

      Yeah, that’s a mild understatement

    • @seikgames384
      @seikgames384 15 дней назад

      Mildy is an interesting choice of word

    • @KaoticWhisper
      @KaoticWhisper 15 дней назад

      Interesting....

  • @agrimreaper2864
    @agrimreaper2864 15 дней назад +36

    4:11 wait, Kramnik hasn’t even READ the report????? jfc

  • @Kitsune_Chess1
    @Kitsune_Chess1 15 дней назад +126

    Levy is so lucky that the kidnappers let him record so they can collect the money

    • @LastSamurai21
      @LastSamurai21 15 дней назад

      What do u mean?

    • @Kitsune_Chess1
      @Kitsune_Chess1 15 дней назад +4

      @@LastSamurai21 so u don’t get the lore? Ull understand later

    • @randomchessplayer.
      @randomchessplayer. 15 дней назад +4

      ​@@LastSamurai21He is in a different place so they make a joke like he's "kidnapped"

  • @timepass4783
    @timepass4783 15 дней назад +187

    Kramnik has now officially gone crazy

    • @NathanLipetz
      @NathanLipetz 15 дней назад +10

      Just now?

    • @rdspam
      @rdspam 15 дней назад +12

      “now”? It’s been a while.

    • @penknight8532
      @penknight8532 15 дней назад +9

      It sneaks up on you if you live long enough.
      You start to see it around 50 years of age.

    • @Chelo._.
      @Chelo._. 15 дней назад

      ​@@penknight8532 Biden is over 80 years old, but he's not going crazy like Kramnik. it is unlikely that we will see a crazy Biden at all, since only unworthy people lose their entire reputation in two months

    • @sk-ig4wt
      @sk-ig4wt 15 дней назад +6

      ​@@penknight8532 Anand is doing just fine probably the highest rated player in his age, he is 54 btw and still is sane

  • @matthewdishman4831
    @matthewdishman4831 15 дней назад +98

    14:32 17% refers to score, not winning percentage so its not 'win 1/6 games' as there will be some draws too

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 15 дней назад +16

      It's so levy that he would just dismiss the page about scores then mischaracterise score for the rest of rhe video 😂
      7 losses 3 draws from 10 games doesn't seem so wild. Or 15 losses, 1 win, 4 draws from 20.

    • @robertopimenta9340
      @robertopimenta9340 15 дней назад +2

      Omg thank you. Had to scroll a lot for that.

    • @JGMeador444
      @JGMeador444 15 дней назад

      I was looking for this, because that really bothered me too. Hopefully he sees this.

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 14 дней назад

      @@frikai8321 why?

    • @matthewdishman4831
      @matthewdishman4831 14 дней назад

      ​@@frikai8321No because the y-axis is still the lower rated player even if they're in the same rating bucket.

  • @DexterHaven
    @DexterHaven 15 дней назад +79

    A GM can make one bad move; that's all it takes to lose to a 2100 player.

    • @InVersionStudio
      @InVersionStudio 15 дней назад +1

      Not, eventually...if you don't see that opportunity and play bad move too, you also can lose

    • @bruce2953
      @bruce2953 15 дней назад +5

      You haven't watched Fabi vs Nepo yet I see...

    • @InVersionStudio
      @InVersionStudio 15 дней назад

      @@bruce2953 ok, assuming that in one particular game there's drawish situation came after Nepo play ...very not ideal in mid game in important match. That's one game, and what about some genius,that after bad debut and average mid, starts playing like Magnus in endgame? Average probability of average 600, probably 🙂 And they even make strikes 40+ win. And that's just unrated play. Why? Is that Interesting, or not?

    • @sHaterred-vh7cs
      @sHaterred-vh7cs 15 дней назад

      Look Magnus games he's always play crap openings in blitz and opponent has advantage but he still outplays not always

    • @InVersionStudio
      @InVersionStudio 15 дней назад

      @@sHaterred-vh7cs just one little problem. This 600 is not Magnus, definitely ☺️ Maybe Hikaru 🙂🤷 He like strike's

  • @_JeffJeff_
    @_JeffJeff_ 15 дней назад +190

    Gotham never fails to title a RUclips video: BANNED For Cheating

    • @yankee637
      @yankee637 15 дней назад +5

      BANNED For Cheating.

  • @AkhilVerghese
    @AkhilVerghese 15 дней назад +27

    The biggest problem with this report is that underdog victories over the board are often the result of players just being underrated. Being underrated isn’t common online, for obvious reasons.

  • @bitcoingrinding
    @bitcoingrinding 15 дней назад +19

    This is actually a really great breakdown... kudos for Levy for taking time to go through this for us even during the vacation

  • @mitchderise73
    @mitchderise73 15 дней назад +86

    Technically this just means underdogs don't cheat significantly more than titled players

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 15 дней назад

      Other than the super GMs everyone is an underdog to someone. Unless cheaters were the majority it would still result in more upsets not less.
      Unless you think titled players would cheat more/only against players rated 150-200 pts below them?

    • @rdspam
      @rdspam 15 дней назад +6

      “Technically” it means nothing. It’s a set of data. Your extrapolation of some conclusion does not make it “technical”, meaningful, or accurate.
      “We believe” in a potential interpretation, as this report correctly concludes, is the most you can state.
      Unless you can explain your technically supported methodology, the validated science behind it, and statistical data to support your conclusion.

    • @mitchderise73
      @mitchderise73 15 дней назад

      I'm not actually making any claims or conclusions with this

    • @Littlelongy1
      @Littlelongy1 15 дней назад +8

      I think your point is good. The majority of this report seems to be based on the assumption that players of lower rating will be more likely to cheat than people of higher rating.
      It doesn't find that correlation, but doesn't test the assumption to make sure it's valid, and instead just sort of assumes that it is when making their conclusion, right?

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 15 дней назад +2

      ​@@Littlelongy1it literally highlights the possibility its the higher rated players being the ones cheating at the start....
      Though it's a real leap to think someone would cheat but only against weaker opponents....
      Regardless the whole thing is based on the perception of weaker players cheating to beat stronger players in titled Tuesday ... That is what it's about...

  • @shamrock73
    @shamrock73 15 дней назад +29

    Kramnik writes a paragraph about how the report should be conducted. Then he doesn't read it.
    🍷🗿

  • @brownie8090
    @brownie8090 15 дней назад +133

    Kramnink’s respect rating went from 2700 to 103 real quick

    • @Sindamsc
      @Sindamsc 15 дней назад +6

      same with Naka after his Kick stream, tbh

    • @shamrock73
      @shamrock73 15 дней назад +1

      ​@@SindamscWhat happened?

    • @justindavis9629
      @justindavis9629 15 дней назад +1

      @@Sindamsc signing to Kick in general or did he say or do something while streaming over there? I’ve never seen a kick stream so very much out of the loop if it’s the latter.

    • @thenextgeneration9030
      @thenextgeneration9030 15 дней назад

      @@Sindamsc whatt stream?

    • @sanjithd3343
      @sanjithd3343 15 дней назад +7

      @@shamrock73he had a stream where he was promoting gambling, whilst he was playing slots.

  • @_JeffJeff_
    @_JeffJeff_ 15 дней назад +106

    Kramnik is chronically online 💀

  • @timepass4783
    @timepass4783 15 дней назад +112

    Title for Future reference:
    “BANNED for Cheating.”

  • @DiamondWolfX
    @DiamondWolfX 14 дней назад +3

    Interesting story from Minecraft speedrunning: Player Dream was accused and convicted of cheating; it later turned out his accuser knew what to look for because he himself was cheating.
    Makes me wonder if Kramnik is playing in an ...interesting manner.

  • @kaszaspeter77
    @kaszaspeter77 15 дней назад +6

    One major flaw of this analysis is that it assumes only underdogs cheat. It is possible that the higher rated player cheated and it is possible that both of them cheated. Granted, the underdog winning against the higher rated through cheating is the most problematic scenario, but since we have seen how many times the underdog would win even OTB, it makes perfect sense for a higher rated to cheat as well, esp. if the rating difference is small.

    • @clappedbyben5438
      @clappedbyben5438 15 дней назад

      Valid point. But by that standard you have to realize that a for example 2200 is going to only cheat against 2000 and not against higher rated players to make this make sense. That isnt the most logical conclusion so its a occams razor scenario and the most logical conclusion is cheating isnt as big of a problem as it is portrayed online.

    • @alexisperron-brault6009
      @alexisperron-brault6009 15 дней назад

      If both people cheat, their score will be 50% on average. We don't see that here

    • @clappedbyben5438
      @clappedbyben5438 14 дней назад

      @@alexisperron-brault6009that also isn’t really valid or do you think 100% of titled players are cheating?

    • @alexisperron-brault6009
      @alexisperron-brault6009 14 дней назад

      @@clappedbyben5438 if everyone cheats, everyone will win about 50% of the time. This is not what we see.
      People might cheat only when it matters though (for one specific game)

    • @detrotsid
      @detrotsid 12 дней назад

      @@clappedbyben5438 Dunno if you can call Occam's razor on this, there simply isn't enough information to draw any solid logical conclusions.

  • @railspony
    @railspony 14 дней назад +2

    When I was 1180 I beat a 1750 in classical... People often "play down" when there is a big difference. They look at a position and think, "Well, he's not strong enough to punish me so I can just do this easy thing and then win and go to lunch" and instead they lose because I'm trying my very best.

  • @pauloriley4020
    @pauloriley4020 15 дней назад +6

    Gotham: What many people don't know about me is that I actually have a PhD in Clickbait.

  • @alessandragreco1342
    @alessandragreco1342 15 дней назад +156

    I'm a simple man, I see Gotham, I click

    • @RaniaIsAwesome
      @RaniaIsAwesome 15 дней назад +15

      @@_JeffJeff_ I'm a simple man, I see a simple man meme, I want to take part.

    • @Cage66666
      @Cage66666 15 дней назад

      Roll*

    • @Lydown1825
      @Lydown1825 15 дней назад

      @@Cage66666 ?

    • @Pirhah
      @Pirhah 15 дней назад +5

      I never fail to be a simple man and see Gotham

    • @michaelmassaro4375
      @michaelmassaro4375 15 дней назад

      Might as well Levy has Good Stuff dam we need another Candidates tournament or other for more recaps they were fun 😅

  • @ninjanoodle2674
    @ninjanoodle2674 15 дней назад +5

    There is one other possibility to explain the data: that cheating is so rampant among both the higher and lower rated players in any given online game that the cheating cancels each other out. It is a little like the steroid era in baseball where a lot of pitchers and hitters were both taking performance enhancing drugs.
    I think that the more definitive approach may be to evaluate how much players performed above/below their rating in OTB vs Online games. If players are consistently playing at a level well above their expected level given their current rating in online games, then that would be an interesting indicator of whether cheating is as prevalent as some would say.

    • @Odysseusf
      @Odysseusf 14 дней назад

      Exactly. Plus that the cheaters are all underdogs is a self defeating assumption. By definition, cheaters cheat to win and gain ratings. So how can they both cheat and stay with very low ratings?

  • @Anonymous-iz4yc
    @Anonymous-iz4yc 14 дней назад +2

    "This video very interesting" *Block and Report* - Kramnik 2024

  • @Idontwanttoexistt
    @Idontwanttoexistt 15 дней назад +6

    Kramnik really said "i ain't reading all that"

  • @Jasonf3
    @Jasonf3 15 дней назад +13

    How long have you been held hostage in Hikaru's ceiling?

  • @builderdog3875
    @builderdog3875 15 дней назад +9

    Levi never fails to make me feel like a mere statistic as he click baits me

  • @shukun-luxxy
    @shukun-luxxy 14 дней назад +12

    As someone who does academic business research and statistics all the time: the moment I saw the lack of methodology, correlation diagrams, ANOVA's, p-values, standard errors, and even the text not being symmetrically aligned, I knew that this "study" was not going to be anything to bet your money on.

  • @ryzekagi
    @ryzekagi 15 дней назад +38

    "mildly reckless"

  • @ludodotho762
    @ludodotho762 15 дней назад +12

    Gotta love how Kramnik got 69 downvotes lol

  • @eitanporat9892
    @eitanporat9892 15 дней назад +12

    Hi Levy, regarding the P-value comment, I think it is relevant for hypothesis testing. You could model the distribution of players as a mix of "noncheating players" and "cheating players" and then run a statistical test. There is much more work to be conducted here. Also, there are better methods than ELO, Glicko might work better idk. Sorry for nerding out 🤓

  • @gryllodea
    @gryllodea 14 дней назад +2

    17% score doesn't mean that an underdog would win 1/6 of the games. Maybe it's 26% for a draw and 4% for a win, and the result is 0.04×1 + 0.26×0.5 = 0.17.

  • @JDeLauer
    @JDeLauer 15 дней назад +5

    I still laugh whenever I talk about chess with people and they’ll be shocked that you can cheat at chess.

  • @DustinHorvath1987
    @DustinHorvath1987 15 дней назад +5

    My takeaway from this entire video is the FIDE rating system isn't rating players very accurately, and the datasets are not an accurate representation of players' abilities.

    • @detrotsid
      @detrotsid 12 дней назад

      Strictly speaking, nothing rates players _very accurately_, all rating systems just look at your results and make some educated-ish guesses. Better sample sizes give better predictions.

  • @methanbreather
    @methanbreather 15 дней назад +13

    interesting conclusion at the 2min mark.
    You could also say: higher rated players are more likely to cheat online, because they have more to lose.

  • @Multiverseofcreativity
    @Multiverseofcreativity 14 дней назад +1

    I really like the vibe of your travel set up. It makes it feel like I’m just watching someone on a FaceTime.

  • @Fiery-Cat-Art
    @Fiery-Cat-Art 15 дней назад +2

    Kramnik has not only destroyed his reputation, but has slowly begun to chip away at others’.

  • @ippo4502
    @ippo4502 15 дней назад +3

    The lights look like Levy has cat ears

  • @Willsczk
    @Willsczk 15 дней назад +7

    Mildly reckless is the understatement of the year...

  • @Peenos
    @Peenos 15 дней назад +1

    beginning pause was so good I thought the video wasn't playing

  • @ItsAlex-dw4uy
    @ItsAlex-dw4uy 15 дней назад +24

    levy never fails to be held hostage

  • @whateverwhocares3805
    @whateverwhocares3805 15 дней назад +3

    I think this report shows the difference in the stress in online versus over the board. The better player tends to win more online because there’s less stress causing variance in skill. Maybe that’s an oversimplification but it stands to reason.

  • @BlackRose3610
    @BlackRose3610 15 дней назад +7

    Kramnik going how Bobby did

  • @thelastnoise9210
    @thelastnoise9210 15 дней назад +1

    For some odd reason I wanna watch these upset games.
    The underdog winning that 17% chance.

  • @rajroushan6565
    @rajroushan6565 15 дней назад +6

    This the reason Indian GM avoid playing online, just play OTB and win everything who cares about title tuesday anyway.

  • @tallblondedude
    @tallblondedude 15 дней назад +3

    After reading the report I am not fully convinced on it. I would have loved to see an F score for the classical FIDE because that looked somewhat distinct. This is also working on the assumption that the lack of distinction in win rates is sufficient, which i'm not fully convinced was sufficiently shown, is a necessary sign. If cheating functions independently of rating, the effect would be totally masked; perhaps higher rated players see a "miracle" move that bails them out vs lower players and can play it off due to their rating, while lower players are more conservative. I think publishing a distribution (without specifics) of found cheater's ratings would be beneficial.

  • @radleytimajo
    @radleytimajo 15 дней назад +4

    as someone taking the AP Statistics exam soon, 21:57 genuinely jumpscared me

  • @Random_starwars_and_chess_nerd
    @Random_starwars_and_chess_nerd 15 дней назад +1

    You know i needed this 3 months ago for my school project

  • @MurtazaPirani
    @MurtazaPirani 15 дней назад +2

    A lot of you are seeing the name behind the comment, and not focusing on the comment Kramnik left. While I also believe he goes overboard when assuming people are cheating, he has a very valid point on the actual stats being used.
    Let's not be quick to dismiss the point being made just because the person making it has made less valid points in the past.

  • @ancientknight9805
    @ancientknight9805 15 дней назад +20

    Levy finally using his stats degree😂😂😂

    • @quill444
      @quill444 13 дней назад

      Levy: _"What are the P Values?"_
      Magnus: _"You mean Probability?"_
      Hikaru: _"I'm Pushing P!"_
      Kramnik: _"It's P as in Psychosis . . ."_ - j q t -

  • @koopercupp523
    @koopercupp523 15 дней назад +14

    in my opinion ANYONE that types like THIS, is emotionally unhinged

  • @HeartFallsApart
    @HeartFallsApart 15 дней назад +2

    "traveling?" Everyone knows you enjoy getting kidnapped.

  • @TodorHristoski
    @TodorHristoski 14 дней назад

    That pic of Levy in that FIDE ranking list got me😂

  • @TigerSharkMLB
    @TigerSharkMLB 15 дней назад +3

    Hostage simulator

  • @InfiniteQuest86
    @InfiniteQuest86 15 дней назад +7

    When comparing two groups like this, confidence intervals are way more important than p value which is to compare against the null hypothesis. So, unless you can come up with what should happen by chance, then it's going to be more accurate to use confidence intervals. But yeah there's a missing piece without that.

    • @jennymulholland4319
      @jennymulholland4319 14 дней назад

      Since chess is not a game of chance (except whether you play as white or black) I think it's not possible to determine what would happen by chance. You can only look at averages.
      Maybe the closest bit of information you could get to "what would happen by chance" would be seeing how often strong bots win against themselves as opposed to draw. Since the theory is that chess played perfectly should always end in a draw, so anything else that happens (when players are bots) will be by chance as it were.

    • @Odysseusf
      @Odysseusf 14 дней назад

      My friend, you’re the only person who knows Statistics in the comments section. Everybody else is so uninformed with the basics of 2-sample hypothesis testing 😂. Good job. What is your background in Stats?

    • @InfiniteQuest86
      @InfiniteQuest86 14 дней назад +1

      @@Odysseusf Haha, kind of. I majored in math so I have some stats. Mostly I got brushed up on it when going into more data science lately.

    • @InfiniteQuest86
      @InfiniteQuest86 14 дней назад

      @@Odysseusf I actually posted a much longer response explaining in more detail, which seems to be taken down. Weird.

    • @InfiniteQuest86
      @InfiniteQuest86 14 дней назад

      ​@@jennymulholland4319 We say by chance when we mean the null hypothesis which is that no cheating occurred. So if you have a 2200 play a 2500, then they should win 10% of the time by chance (as opposed to skill you could think of it). This is based on rating. Of course rating has to be accurate to know this percentage, which it is admitted that the OTB ratings are not right. To do the p-test you have to stay within on group. So you look at the 2200s vs. 2500s in online only and see if it is more than 10%. The p-value tells you the likelihood that what we saw happen was described by cheating in our case as opposed to "chance." It takes into account how hard it is to achieve and how powerful your sample is. So if you only had one game of a 2200 vs. a 2500, and the 2200 won, you wouldn't claim cheating even though the 2200s won 100% of the games. That could happen by chance. It could be the 10% since it was only one game. But if you had thousands of games and the 2200s won even 30% of the time, that's huge, way bigger than expected if cheating wasn't occurring. Also think if 2200s only typically won 0.05% of the time, then even seeing a single win would indicate cheating because it should be so rare. Anyway, that's what's meant by chance, not that the game has a random element to it. The other problem with this approach is that we are running too many tests. Every comparison is another test, so comparing 2500s to 2400s, 2500s to 2300s, 2500s to 2200s, etc. By chance, one of them is going to indicate cheating has occurred. If you flip a coin a million times, your going to see 100 heads in a row at some point just by chance. When you go digging for results, you're bound to find them even if they aren't there.

  • @DemoniqueLewis
    @DemoniqueLewis 15 дней назад

    I agree with your take on where are the P-Values and the other parts of a statistical examination that would provide context.

  • @ethan073
    @ethan073 15 дней назад +1

    Mildly reckless is an incredible understatement 🤣

  • @mrfotball9261
    @mrfotball9261 15 дней назад +18

    Levy never fails to be Banned in Chess

  • @m7areb
    @m7areb 15 дней назад +3

    my brain isnt braining

  • @AMReyVenz
    @AMReyVenz 15 дней назад +1

    The simple fact of the matter is; if you respect chess, if you really are trying to be your personal best, you would never cheat. To everyone else, shame on you for your actions and you should go cheat elsewhere, not Chess. This is a game for those who really respect the game and intend to uncover our own mental abilities in a world that coddles peoples feelings.

  • @NoobSharkey
    @NoobSharkey 15 дней назад +2

    Levys lights in the background make it look like he has cat ears

  • @osmarsanchez5165
    @osmarsanchez5165 15 дней назад +4

    I wonder if at least part of the reason the higher ranked player performs better in titled Tuesday than OTB is just because of facing less pressure and therefore making fewer blunders, errors, etc. It definitely seems a likely explanation

    • @Odysseusf
      @Odysseusf 14 дней назад +1

      Plus these highly rated players contain more cheaters and engines don’t blunder

  • @Gelo19
    @Gelo19 15 дней назад +5

    Kramnik: You cheat
    Hikaru: the 3rd highest rated player🗿

  • @natvanrooyen
    @natvanrooyen 15 дней назад

    I think an important thing here is also the coverage, we see more titled Tuesday than over the board games

  • @Veptis
    @Veptis 15 дней назад

    these data visualizations are beautiful - I would love to see more of this. maybe even plot some of my own ideas.

  • @flookaraz
    @flookaraz 15 дней назад +3

    The craziest thing in this video is Levy saying Kramnik was "mildly" reckless. Sheesh.

    • @muratsinanengin9773
      @muratsinanengin9773 15 дней назад

      He was trying to be polite methinks.

    • @chunklum3636
      @chunklum3636 15 дней назад

      what has Kramnik been doing and where can I read or watch about it?

    • @flookaraz
      @flookaraz 14 дней назад

      @@chunklum3636 Gotham has actually covered it quite extensively on this channel, although i know he doesn't title his videos too accurately so it might be hard to find. "Cheating" / "kramnik" should be in the titles though

    • @chunklum3636
      @chunklum3636 14 дней назад

      @@flookaraz thanks for the help

  • @Josharoo
    @Josharoo 15 дней назад +10

    kramnik probably the most unlikable person in chess.

    • @nuwandalton
      @nuwandalton 15 дней назад +2

      Not a chance with Carlsen and Kasparov around...
      Not to mention Firouzja

    • @Josharoo
      @Josharoo 15 дней назад +6

      @@nuwandalton maybe stupidest take i've ever read

    • @nuwandalton
      @nuwandalton 15 дней назад

      @@JosharooIs that so? Don't be so harsh with yourself.
      You're stupid, granted, but not THAT stupid.
      Now run along, fanboy

    • @vaibhavvb9898
      @vaibhavvb9898 15 дней назад +1

      It used to be hikaru after that I literally don’t care thing. Looks like that keeps changing with time.

  • @junaidahmad1492
    @junaidahmad1492 13 дней назад +1

    People hating on Kramnik for not reading the report are not better than him. If they were better than him, they would have read what he said and criticised it. The same way Kramnik skipped the report because he had already made a conclusion, you guys have made a conclusion about him and skipped past his points.

  • @cerebralisk
    @cerebralisk 15 дней назад +2

    i feel like there's a transmissable thing from cheating in video game speedruns, where a lot of the cheating is actually people who are good enough to do something legit cheating to do it with less time invested. someone who is good at chess might cheat to beat someone who is worse just on feeling entitled to victory without 'wasting their time'

  • @Leventmaster
    @Leventmaster 15 дней назад +3

    No.

  • @timepass4783
    @timepass4783 15 дней назад +7

    GM Gotham Soon!

    • @Hiiigh_Yoshi
      @Hiiigh_Yoshi 15 дней назад +1

      Why do you comment so much

    • @literallysweden
      @literallysweden 15 дней назад

      @@Hiiigh_Yoshihe probably likes the notification pop up

  • @objective_psychology
    @objective_psychology 15 дней назад +1

    Kramnik will find a way to disagree with literally anything that doesn't match his initial bias, giving any reason he can

  • @roanoke999
    @roanoke999 15 дней назад +4

    stop spamming first

  • @jukezy46
    @jukezy46 15 дней назад +10

    Gotham already had to cheat to get to gm?? Smh

  • @nostro1940
    @nostro1940 14 дней назад

    Kramnik: *ok, everything is clear now, Let's do the procedure.... Block....report: cheating*

  • @user-nm9mq2ud4q
    @user-nm9mq2ud4q 15 дней назад

    brilliant move (!!) for the "a broken clock is right twice a day" quote

  • @JBM118
    @JBM118 15 дней назад +4

    Let me guess it’s a Clickbait

    • @Bolu-mg2ki
      @Bolu-mg2ki 15 дней назад

      Fool watch the video

    • @Nitidus
      @Nitidus 15 дней назад

      There are no clickbaits on this channel 😀
      There is no war in Ba Sing Se 😐

  • @ChessMusclesBro
    @ChessMusclesBro 15 дней назад +3

    Gotham - was your barber blind bro? Cause wowwwwwww 😅

  • @thom1218
    @thom1218 14 дней назад +1

    In other news, Philip Morris put out a report showing that doctors endorse their product for a healthy lifestyle, despite fearmongering by others in the medical field.

  • @weksauce
    @weksauce 14 дней назад +1

    Gotham says that low-rated players cheating is stupid and makes no sense to him, but he doesn't ask the question WHY. He has no curiosity. Gotham will never read this, but here's why I "cheated" (used an engine) a LOT, for a LONG TIME. I'm uninterested in bad human chess. I'm much more interested in good human chess. Engines are tools that make humans better at chess. I would never say that a human using a spreadsheet is "cheating" and require that our economy only produce services without spreadsheets. At the time I was cheating, engines weren't amazing, especially the engines I had access to. I was about 18-1900 WITH AN ENGINE, and I learned to play as a "centaur", filling in the engine's gaps in chess "understanding". For example, I always knew which files to slide rooks to, but, if I took the engine's advice, would lead to late-game disaster. The engine always knew how to avoid really dumb blunders, so I always let it do that. Why would I blunder 1 or 2 move blunders if there exists a tool to just not do that? Why would I insist on mental math instead of digital spreadsheets? I wouldn't. And anyone who would is stupid. Technological progress is good. I prefer better things, and I prefer cheaper things. I prefer to play better chess.
    Now why don't I cheat today? Couple reasons. I still prefer to watch engine v engine games, and only the highest-ranked engines play chess over humans. But I'm interested in improving myself, and curious what that takes. Cheating detection is better, so it's not "worth" it in that way. But also, what am I going to do, run an engine, constantly, and consult it discreetly once or twice a game, to TEMPORARILY boost my rating 100-200 points? My goal is to BECOME many hundreds of points better, so this doesn't help with that goal and it costs time and effort and attention, so it's not worth it in that way either.

  • @starmj5247
    @starmj5247 15 дней назад +7

    Levy never fails to cheat.

  • @Prometheus4096
    @Prometheus4096 15 дней назад +3

    It just means higher rated players cheat more than lower rated ones.

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 15 дней назад +1

      Even though they are the same people? They cheat when they are higher rated and stop cheating when rhey are lower rated?

    • @Prometheus4096
      @Prometheus4096 14 дней назад +1

      @@DoddyIshamel wut?

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 14 дней назад

      @@Prometheus4096 literally what I said. Do you mean they cheat against weaker opponents but not stronger?

    • @Prometheus4096
      @Prometheus4096 14 дней назад

      @@DoddyIshamel No. I meant literally what I said. You think that higher rated players are just 1 person? And that lower rated people are also just one person? And that these are both the same person?

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 14 дней назад

      @Prometheus4096 Every "higher rated person" is the "lower rated person" in other games....
      Unless they are Magnus.

  • @imnotconsistent4504
    @imnotconsistent4504 14 дней назад

    Kramnik saw the Hikaru has Stockfish on his ceiling memes and took them seriously

  • @egjohnson7939
    @egjohnson7939 15 дней назад +1

    Over the board, Magnus lost to Hans, and then he cried about it, and slyly alleged cheating without directly saying it. The truth is... he lost an over the board game. He's a whiner.

  • @CopperGames1
    @CopperGames1 15 дней назад +3

    Not first

  • @SplashCap
    @SplashCap 15 дней назад +6

    First

    • @Samurai24200
      @Samurai24200 15 дней назад +1

      NPC comment, no one cares

    • @Tk_IMPERIUS
      @Tk_IMPERIUS 15 дней назад

      What a tool, finish the video first.

    • @Tk_IMPERIUS
      @Tk_IMPERIUS 15 дней назад

      What a tool. Finish the video first.

    • @SplashCap
      @SplashCap 15 дней назад

      @@Samurai24200 ok

    • @Tk_IMPERIUS
      @Tk_IMPERIUS 15 дней назад

      What a tool. Finish the video first.

  • @qayssarjrd5399
    @qayssarjrd5399 15 дней назад

    Bro has the most Spencer expressions and way of talk I’ve seen

  • @MrSweet-ye6bs
    @MrSweet-ye6bs 14 дней назад +1

    That -6% is saying that the lower rated players 2600-2749 are losing more to players over 2750 and higher in titled tuesday. It means the highest rated players are possibly cheating

    • @MrSweet-ye6bs
      @MrSweet-ye6bs 14 дней назад

      You can possibly extrapolate this into 6% of moves are played with assistance, like you said being smart with cheating. A 30 move game may have 1 or 2 moves that were engines.

  • @DoddyIshamel
    @DoddyIshamel 15 дней назад +1

    When you are talking about the rating difference you seem to have forgotten they are using Fide blitz for both ....

  • @Flamingcloud083
    @Flamingcloud083 15 дней назад +1

    The problem with these stats are that the FIDE ratings are so inaccurate due to lack of games that they cant really be used as an accurate date set.

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 15 дней назад

      It's the only one there us ..

    • @Flamingcloud083
      @Flamingcloud083 15 дней назад +1

      @@DoddyIshamel could check only players with enough recent fide blitz games to have confidence that their rating is accurate

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 15 дней назад

      @Flamingcloud083 then the sample size would be much smaller.
      In any case as pointed out the lack of games for players gives them lower rating which should create more underdog results online. So it would only make the results even more stark.

    • @jennymulholland4319
      @jennymulholland4319 14 дней назад

      The addendum said they only used games where players' FIDE blitz ratings were based on at least 50 games and at least one game in the last year. I do wonder how many games this excluded then.

  • @Cookies_z
    @Cookies_z 15 дней назад +2

    Nah, "mildly reckless" is crazy 💀

  • @marcossandoval7048
    @marcossandoval7048 14 дней назад

    These numbers are so satisfying! I never thought someone would be able to have some proper research, but the numbers don't lie. Very cool stuff!

  • @kimofrosty
    @kimofrosty 14 дней назад +1

    Blink twice if Danny is holding you hostage