Today we're playing the masters of hackable heavy infantry vs the masters of hacking; Yu Jing vs Tunguska. Yu Jing is a faction that has been liberated in N5 from the listbuilding tyranny of Kuang Shi by the simple expedient of making Kuang Shi a bit shit but all the vanity pieces they enabled actually pretty affordable. This produces a pretty great listbuilding dynamic, especially given some of the options that Yu Jing has picked up in things like the infowar and asymmetric play spheres in late N4 / early N5. It's a good time to be a State Empire player!
Enjoyed the battle report and analysis. I hope that you someday do a Military Orders report in N5. While they might be the most difficult PanO Sectorial, they still have AVA 2 Peacemakers and a lot of high BS pieces. I would love for you to show all the naysayers about MO wrong. Thank you again for all that you do.
Great video as always. Really enjoyed seeing the YJ list and I may try it out myself at some point. I would love to see some Corregidor on the channel. I am dipping my toes into Nomads and just got a lot in a trade that is mostly Corregidor and am hyped for some Gecko Duos!
Great content as all ways, my go to infinity creator! Can we see an OSS list with the garuda tactbots (qty is up to you), the rest is up to you as I've not played them that much. I was wondering what it would be like having some of these tactbots flying around the opponent's side of the board causing havok with 8-2 super-jump. If it's a bad idea let me know and I'll try and come up something else.
@@NobleWizard I'll add them to the list of things to play with. I hadn't noticed they're 8-2 move (effectively 8-6 with super jump). That's... interesting.
Very nice Batrep. Very interesting to see YJ without Kuang Shi. I think they profited a lot from the HI cost reductions. Seeing the SuJian movement makes me wonder whether the online worrying about the "8-8 SuperJumping Seraph" aren't massively overstated. But I'm expecting some things to get faqd to at least clear up how SuperJump works on some of these models. I like it on Hollowman links for sure, but they weren't exactly slow before.
Your reports are great 🔥 Could you put the unit profile you'r currently speaking about on the screen so we don't have to flip back and forth between arm7 and your video please 🤘🏻 Really great reports 😎
@@rossmilespickersgill502 all good. I do appreciate the feedback - but these videos are made on a time budget. Still, there's always a chance a suggestion might actually be easy to action. Never know until someone suggests it :)
Probably not. This table was quite friendly to vertical movement via ladders and I had to take most of the route I did to avoid repeaters. But on some other table, yes, the C+ nerf might have made a small difference.
Meanwhile I'm out here playing lists where almost every trooper has a defensive role. Paying 100+pts for pure offensive pieces feels greedy to me. Though I don't count dual-purpose investments in that - and it feels like there are more valid dual-purpose options in N5 now that the ceiling has been lowered on link power.
Dual-purpose troops are extremely important in basically any build. I never used links much to defend so that change doesn't impact me, but willingness to use any model as a defensive model *in addition* to having a few dedicated crumple zone pieces is definitely a more holistic perspective. In the Yu Jing list I played in this report, for example, the Shaolin also served a defensive purpose, as does the hacking network. And I deployed all of the big heavy infantry with at least some AROs in mind. However, they aren't solely ARO pieces, and I don't think you want to weaken your list by going really really heavy on defensive play unless you have a winning end goal in mind.
6 points for an order with a chain rifle is not good tell that to Aleph who pay 6pts for netrods.I guess they should never take them then. Yes I understand you have to pay for a celestial however is that Celestial really that bad? I mean it does have a smoke launcher. I mean I guess with so many things cheaper and you still can only have 15 models the maybe you have an argument. I think back in N4 they were a little too good.
A kuang shi isn't 6pts for an order. It's 19pts and 0.5SWC and two troop slots for two orders, or 25pts and 0.5SWC and three troop slots for three orders, etc. There's never any point, ever, where it competes with the cost of a Netrod, especially in an edition where troop slots are also extremely valuable and you only want maybe a couple cheerleader models per army if you can. On top of that, a Netrod remains regular as some insurance against Loss of Lieutenant.
@@R0bertShepherd my agruement is that before they were excellent, now I think they are more fairly costed. Even in the list you posted here you had 3 Monks and a Pangguling, thats pretty much 4 troops for 4 orders that are meh, and those monks are impetous orders. Granted monks are better in CC by a long shot, but I dont think Kuang Shi are terrible for cheap orders that can be mine sweepers, Camo reveals, cheap trades, order generators etc. The Celestial Guard tax is really the same deal, its 13 points this edition instead of 17 (13 points for a Celestial guard with a granade launcher isnt aweful, the weapon isnt great but you will use it for smoke anyways). Technically that means from N4 to N5 the Kuang shi group is the same points at 4 Kuang Shi and 1 Celestial guard and cheaper if you dont include 4 Kuang shi. So not imo not aweful just fairly costed now. Losing Dogged does hurt though and I think it should have stayed.
@@orleansgac4088 Celestial Guard Monitor was 13/.5 in N4, same as N5. It never paid any points for the smoke GL, unlike the regular GL. But the main problem with taking Kuang Shi is that you were taking a lot of troops whose main roles overlapped with one another. You'd very quickly pidgeonhole yourself into a list that was extremely rigid and couldn't adapt easily to opponents -- you'd run out of slots before you ran out of points. Nerfing them was the right move, and I'm really excited with the list variety that Yu Jing can put out now. It's a great time to play the orange team.
Daoying LT options are still around, they're just exclusive to IA now, which is fair in my opinion. It enforces further the split between sectorials and vanilla and give weight to both options. Yan Huo Lt is caput tho, no argument there XD.
Today we're playing the masters of hackable heavy infantry vs the masters of hacking; Yu Jing vs Tunguska. Yu Jing is a faction that has been liberated in N5 from the listbuilding tyranny of Kuang Shi by the simple expedient of making Kuang Shi a bit shit but all the vanity pieces they enabled actually pretty affordable. This produces a pretty great listbuilding dynamic, especially given some of the options that Yu Jing has picked up in things like the infowar and asymmetric play spheres in late N4 / early N5. It's a good time to be a State Empire player!
Came here for the analytical gameplay, stayed for the spot on Mowang impression at 5:22
The mad lad ACTUALLY did it. I'm SO excited to see this - and with several models I'm very excited to try out myself! Thank you @Robert!
Thank you very much for putting this all together Rob! Awesome list and very inspiring
You're extremely welcome mate :)
Thanks for the work Rob! Great content :)
Enjoyed the battle report and analysis. I hope that you someday do a Military Orders report in N5. While they might be the most difficult PanO Sectorial, they still have AVA 2 Peacemakers and a lot of high BS pieces. I would love for you to show all the naysayers about MO wrong. Thank you again for all that you do.
Great video as always. Really enjoyed seeing the YJ list and I may try it out myself at some point. I would love to see some Corregidor on the channel. I am dipping my toes into Nomads and just got a lot in a trade that is mostly Corregidor and am hyped for some Gecko Duos!
What a great game to listen to while gluing my sandtrap box
Thanks for vid! Sometimes you just gotta go “gat gat” a tag 😊
Hell yeah Hollowman with Perseus!
Great content as all ways, my go to infinity creator! Can we see an OSS list with the garuda tactbots (qty is up to you), the rest is up to you as I've not played them that much. I was wondering what it would be like having some of these tactbots flying around the opponent's side of the board causing havok with 8-2 super-jump. If it's a bad idea let me know and I'll try and come up something else.
Out of interest, are you just interested in seeing the Garudas perform regardless of faction, or is OSS an important part of the challenge? :)
@R0bertShepherd More of just how they would perform tbh. Interested to see what you do now. :)
@@NobleWizard I'll add them to the list of things to play with. I hadn't noticed they're 8-2 move (effectively 8-6 with super jump). That's... interesting.
Very nice Batrep. Very interesting to see YJ without Kuang Shi. I think they profited a lot from the HI cost reductions. Seeing the SuJian movement makes me wonder whether the online worrying about the "8-8 SuperJumping Seraph" aren't massively overstated. But I'm expecting some things to get faqd to at least clear up how SuperJump works on some of these models. I like it on Hollowman links for sure, but they weren't exactly slow before.
I'm almost certain even the limited amount of Chicken Little-ing I've seen about the Seraph is hugely overblown.
Your reports are great 🔥
Could you put the unit profile you'r currently speaking about on the screen so we don't have to flip back and forth between arm7 and your video please 🤘🏻
Really great reports 😎
Unfortunately no, I can't. It would triple or quadruple the time it takes to produce the videos. :(
@@R0bertShepherd
Thanks for the answer man.
@@rossmilespickersgill502 all good. I do appreciate the feedback - but these videos are made on a time budget. Still, there's always a chance a suggestion might actually be easy to action. Never know until someone suggests it :)
@28:33 BS attack +1B applies to smoke grenades now? Even if they don’t actually use BS?
Wasn't it the same in N4? You get 2 throws with a 3 person team
It’s a BS attack, only rolls with the Ph attribute
Trench hammers too 🐻
Would the Su Jian have made it with an extra order or 2 to spare if it was N4 Climbing Plus or did it get around ok still?
Probably not. This table was quite friendly to vertical movement via ladders and I had to take most of the route I did to avoid repeaters. But on some other table, yes, the C+ nerf might have made a small difference.
My szalamandra shattered over my floor while painting it and that ended my interest in tunguska XD
Meanwhile I'm out here playing lists where almost every trooper has a defensive role. Paying 100+pts for pure offensive pieces feels greedy to me. Though I don't count dual-purpose investments in that - and it feels like there are more valid dual-purpose options in N5 now that the ceiling has been lowered on link power.
Dual-purpose troops are extremely important in basically any build. I never used links much to defend so that change doesn't impact me, but willingness to use any model as a defensive model *in addition* to having a few dedicated crumple zone pieces is definitely a more holistic perspective. In the Yu Jing list I played in this report, for example, the Shaolin also served a defensive purpose, as does the hacking network. And I deployed all of the big heavy infantry with at least some AROs in mind. However, they aren't solely ARO pieces, and I don't think you want to weaken your list by going really really heavy on defensive play unless you have a winning end goal in mind.
6 points for an order with a chain rifle is not good tell that to Aleph who pay 6pts for netrods.I guess they should never take them then. Yes I understand you have to pay for a celestial however is that Celestial really that bad? I mean it does have a smoke launcher. I mean I guess with so many things cheaper and you still can only have 15 models the maybe you have an argument. I think back in N4 they were a little too good.
A kuang shi isn't 6pts for an order. It's 19pts and 0.5SWC and two troop slots for two orders, or 25pts and 0.5SWC and three troop slots for three orders, etc. There's never any point, ever, where it competes with the cost of a Netrod, especially in an edition where troop slots are also extremely valuable and you only want maybe a couple cheerleader models per army if you can.
On top of that, a Netrod remains regular as some insurance against Loss of Lieutenant.
@@R0bertShepherd my agruement is that before they were excellent, now I think they are more fairly costed. Even in the list you posted here you had 3 Monks and a Pangguling, thats pretty much 4 troops for 4 orders that are meh, and those monks are impetous orders. Granted monks are better in CC by a long shot, but I dont think Kuang Shi are terrible for cheap orders that can be mine sweepers, Camo reveals, cheap trades, order generators etc. The Celestial Guard tax is really the same deal, its 13 points this edition instead of 17 (13 points for a Celestial guard with a granade launcher isnt aweful, the weapon isnt great but you will use it for smoke anyways). Technically that means from N4 to N5 the Kuang shi group is the same points at 4 Kuang Shi and 1 Celestial guard and cheaper if you dont include 4 Kuang shi. So not imo not aweful just fairly costed now. Losing Dogged does hurt though and I think it should have stayed.
I don't have netrods in any of the OSS lists I've made so far
@@orleansgac4088 Celestial Guard Monitor was 13/.5 in N4, same as N5. It never paid any points for the smoke GL, unlike the regular GL.
But the main problem with taking Kuang Shi is that you were taking a lot of troops whose main roles overlapped with one another. You'd very quickly pidgeonhole yourself into a list that was extremely rigid and couldn't adapt easily to opponents -- you'd run out of slots before you ran out of points.
Nerfing them was the right move, and I'm really excited with the list variety that Yu Jing can put out now. It's a great time to play the orange team.
Daoying LT options are still around, they're just exclusive to IA now, which is fair in my opinion. It enforces further the split between sectorials and vanilla and give weight to both options. Yan Huo Lt is caput tho, no argument there XD.
Yeah noticed the same thing which is good. Give some love to IA