Betaflight 4.0 PID tune for best stick feel | ITERM RELAX AND FEEDFORWARD
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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I'm taking my first flights on Betaflight 4.0, and tuning the PIDs for best stick feel.
For basic understanding of PIDs, watch my PID Tuning Masterclass playlist at: • PID Tuning Masterclass
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The quad I am flying in this video is:
Frame: Hyperlow Vert Freestyle V2
* Hyperlow - bit.ly/2PQE2yU
* Pyro-Drone - bit.ly/2PTnu9G
Motors: iFlight Xing 2306/2450kv
* Rotor Riot - bit.ly/2PXaSyb
* RaceDayQuads - bit.ly/2PUHDMH
* GetFPV - bit.ly/305GHJY
* Banggood - bit.ly/2PSMxK5
* Amazon - amzn.to/2VrJjTR
FC and ESC: Hyperlite F4 and Hobbywing 4-in-1
* Pyro-Drone - bit.ly/2PW0BCi
Prop: HQ 5x4.5x3 V1S
* RaceDayQuads - bit.ly/2PWybIv
* Rotor Riot - bit.ly/2PWsbj1
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I sooo appreciate the work you do, for all of us. THANKS for doing what you do!!!!!
As a "veteran pilot" i really appreciate these long in depth formats. As you have seen i usually have complicated questions that i cant find an answer to any where else.
You're the best man, keep the train rolling!!! 🛫🤘👍🛬
At 24:00 0.2 - 0.3 FF transition should remove the bounces that a over active FF is causing. These get worse if you have dead band set, as the movement trough center will not be smooth, and FF amplifies big changes that happen vary fast, like the D term.
There appears to be a lot of misunderstanding of how FF transition works (and old Setpoint transition). It attenuates FF in the % range away from center. For example: 0.2 works from center to 30% stick deflection. FF is 100% suppressed when the sticks are centered, and the suppression is gradually faded until 30% deflection. So it's like a TPA for FF, if that helps. 😜
FF transition does not apply when returning back from max stick at all.
You have seen the Vidio from Mark FF 450 on P R and 100 on YAW i flay this PIDs and Filtering and it goes like a devil :-))))) and item on Gyro 11 for freestyle and Racing Setpoint cutoff on 20 and Absolut control on 5 Diatone GT 548 MK3 4S Tattu V3 2000mph 120C . Best regards from Spain ;-))))
@@fastfrank61 What video? (there's some upcoming stuff that will allow you to crank up FF without severe bounce back, but it's not in 4.0.2)
@@bizmar Look the vidios from UAV TECH and you will find tt an the Filtering all out ,resoult is propwash 0 . I flay 2 Diatone GT 548 MK3 4S wit Tattu V3 4S 2000mph 120C in one with Gefam 51449 and Freestyle and the otfer one with Racing Gefam 5043 Settings and the 2 going like DEVILS :-)))))))
@@bizmar ruclips.net/video/ojr3gCcZduM/видео.html then look this please 450 on Roll and Pitch :-))))))
Hey Bardwell. You are BY FAR the cooles not cool looking guy I know. Thanks for being like this and for all the things I learned from you over the years!
Disabling those 2 filters made my quad so smooth in corners like never before!
I just disabled the 2 initial filters you spoke about and holy shit what a difference with prop wash! Motors barely warm too. Thanks Josh!
At 38:52 you refer to the PID tuning masterclass vid still being true, with this "extra layer".
Sums up my journey to this video!
I shut off all those extra layers and now I'm trying to understand their contribution to the overall performance of the quad. Turning them on, one by one, from basic PID setup to Antigravity on, to Iterm relax and rotation, to feedforward settings- I have followed your vids through this entire process, and yes, I have learned MANY things over many days, and thank you so much for everything that you contribute to this hobby Joshua Bardwell!
That quad sounds/looks great. I've been trusting in the defaults + tuning guide and getting good results. Since it feels so much like a sim I feel quite a home, and I just fly around the robotic feel like I would in something like Velocidrone. Feed forward seems a lot like mouse acceleration on a computer, and much like that, preference will vary greatly. I don't think there's a best setting for everyone, but the devs are doing a good job at finding a middle ground to start with.
I was thinking that about mouse acceleration and gaming. I've definitely come to prefer low FF values as I like a more linear feel to the movements and a predictable rotation speed.
Delivery van bringing more quads at 25:25 haha. Awesome flying and another wicked helpful video. Thankyou
Omg. Wow.. That was some of the best propwash handling I've saw. Usually u get some or you smoke motors. Didnt want 4.0 but I want that.
24:20-25:20... you had a a ton of confidence in the quad and were truly feeling it! That's what modern day tuning is all about! My quad can fly good but I know it's tuned when I have more confidence flying it and it shows in the flying...
3:39 i thought you said "just put the sky in the air" 🤣 . . .I am not a native english speaker, my ears aren't tuned well for english.
this cracked me up so much I will never forget it. . lol
Very helpful. I learned a lot. My son in law and I both just built our first 5" freestyle quads just in time for your videos. Thanks Joshua 👍💖🤓
MY MAN!!! I watched it, did some tweaking and... OM-fucking-G, my quad flies like feather through the sky, thanks for sharing all your awesome knowledge
really unique setup and frame it’s like a mix of race and freestyle but then again that’s kind of how 4.0 tuning feel is!
Max Beamer 🔥
Great vid , again . I installed 4.0 on a new 3 inch quad never had nothing on it before , whoa berserker mode , looked at the CLI and had errors in several spots , So i tried 3.7 flew no problems . A couple of days later 4.0.1 came out , installed 4.0.1 and been flying it since . Will try 4.0.2 maybe , probably , when i get around to it .
4.0.2 fixed a few F3 boards that were misconfigured in 4.0.1, and adds support for some new FCs. No flight performance changes. In general, 4.0.X changes are only bug fixes, with the filter update being an exception because of urgency. 👋
I stuck around till the end and know more because of it.
That was outstanding Josh, loved it, I am liking BF 4.0.2 (Formula 402) very stinking much. Please wish the Mother of your children a Happy Mothers Day, and for You a Happy New Baby Day. Thank you Josh for all you do.
nice tuning video! Minor point I'd like to mention, but I am a little surprised no one is pointing out the overall vibes and jello (and I absolutely mean no disrespect, Im just trying to be open and honest). Maybe it's just a prop/motor imbalance issue, but I suppose this is not what this video is about. If there are no mechanical issues, I am always curious how filtering and tuning parameters act to help or hinder this (I'd really like to see more exploration of this issue (and I follow the BF devs on slack, and I know the common arguments and proposed solutions, tricks with ND filters, etc), but I occasionally come across some quads that look perfect on paper (with clear filtered spectrograms) and still have this issue. I'm sure Im not the only one who finds this to be a major topic in and of itself, and to my knowledge, we still don't completely understand it. I love to see a case where proper filtering just kills such vibes, but it's never that cut and dried (please someone prove me wrong with some data). In fact, I developed a piece of software (pidtoolbox) with this issue in mind, even more so than propwash, because to me propwash can largely be controlled by the pilot, but general vibes are completely out of our control. anyway, thanks again for the great video!
You can see the wobble/Bobble during FFF with the initial runs. It is gone after lowering the relax cutoff to 10 or 15. Can’t remember which. Didn’t see it in final flight although I am on phone with small screen.
I've been starting with the gyro filter using a dynamic and one notch on the peak, then tuning the D filter to chop out oscillation propwash frequencies, only then I mess with pids for the stick feel, then a final blackbox for some final adjustments.
You can repeat this cycle for years and never fully explore the possibilities that 4.0 has. It's amazing
then you find out you get reverse drive on the motor when the tx drop packets then feedforward goes nuts. fix will be in BF4.1
nice video as always! I have also tried all different ways of tuning BF4.0. And my tuning was not only about the feeling, I also wanted a smooth HD Footage, but what ever I have tried i couldn't get rid of oscillations and vibrations in the Footage. And to be honest, your HD Footage looks very shaky too. I have also gone back to BF 3.5.7 and it was getting a little better. Finally, i have replaced my F7 Flight Controller and installed a Helio Spring V2 and it feels much better, flys better ( subjectively ) and the vibrations in the HD Footage are gone. So the IMUF Filtering is still superior to Betafight Filtering.
It would be nice if you could get rid of the vibrations in the HD Footage with your tuning experiences. Sometimes I think, Betaflight Dev's and most of the users are only care about feeling but don't care about smooth flight Footage. Now with ND Filters and Hypersmooth cheatings, it's getting less important. But I still like recording smooth flight Footage on 60FPS without ND Filters and without stabilization.
Torban Dallas yup, video was quite shaky, wondered why JB didn’t look into that at the same time
I have the same issue! Was pulling my hair out trying to get it the way I like it! Swapped out the fc thinking it was a bad giro!
Hmm I just changes to 4.0 and it was all stock and I was getting this weird stutter jumping at points. Is this what you guys are describing? I am watching this vid now and will comment again lol
same here, thought it was my GoPro session. But i'm starting to think this has to do with BF4.0. Cannot use my recordings lately because everything has the worst jello vibrations. The quad sounds pretty good though.
@@cwtim I flashed it to 4.03 and looks a bit better still not perfect tho!
Quote of the day... 'relax more aggressively'
A lot to unpack here. Definitely not an easy video to learn something today. However, there's a lot to explore in Betaflight 4. Thanks for your advice again, I think I'm ready to take the next step and upgrade to 4.0.2. And start playing with this new and exciting layer of PID tuning and gyro filtering.
This last battery was awesome. That is one amazingly good flying quad :)
Thanks Joshua for your videos!
I think that every time Betaflight becomes a little complicated adding things that definitely improve the flight, but complicate the adjustment. We will have to study more to understand so many complex parameters.
Greetings from Mexico City
!
Being new to the hobby, watching a ton of video's about tuning quads I must say this is exactly what i was looking for! Especially since the first Betaflight version i got to fly was 3.5 and just got to learn to fly, being the Nerd I am, couldn't resist to immediately upgrade to 4.0.0, 4.0.1 and 5 days later 4.0.2, trying also to get rpm filtering going with bi directional dshot (sadly my FC isnt working without the dshot_burst off) I needed these pointers to get a good strategy on how to approach tuning in 4.0!
Thanks to you Joshua I can go into the field this weekend, get my newly build quad in the air, notes out and tune it!
Im new to the quad hobby but getting sucked in quick. Im so confused with pid tuning, but your videos are a great help.
I’m on the ride now. Never mind relearning. Always will learn something new.
I need to keep playing with it. One of my followers have the same RS1606 4000kv motors by Emax. Said he was going to contact you about HOT motors. I’m waiting for my VTX so I can really fly and play with the settings. Can’t fly LOS to save my life!
Interesting stuff there, thank you for taking the time to look under the hood and helping out it in lay terms for us real word hobbyist that don't have the time to just spend an afternoon trying out all the settings. You have at least given me a starting point and a blue print to follow. Thanks again.
With D_min BF has to "sense" propwash before it starts raising D, and that is controlled by D_min Gain, 27 is a conservative number because if the quad is shaking from too little filtering, D will get boosted, and make it worse. So, if your quad is flying well, turn Gain up to 35, and that will make it a little bit better. BF 4.0 tuning notes have a very complete guide for taming prop-wash, from what settings to try, to how to fly around it. Very much recommend reading that, even if your aren't on 4.0 or are running dRonin. 😁
All this you cann seeall vidiods o Joshua friend Mark Spatz UAV TECH I fly it 45 and D max 55 and 50 and min 30 and 35 :-))))))
Great Video Joshua, thanks for sharing so in-depth of a video! Now I need to upgrade my quads to BF 4.0.2
Side note: I'm already one of your Patreon sponsors and to be honest, its always money well spent! Thank you for all that you do for us fellow pilots.
A little intro on your quad build say cam angle batt frame and propellers Will help ! Thanks
It's so hard to tell sometimes, JB, when you're just emoting for dramatic effect from genuine surprise and delight. That's not a criticism, but an observation of your delivery style. Anyway, I think you seemed genuinely pleased with the tune you ended with. It showed in how you flung it about. That's a pilot happy with how his aircraft feels. Looking forward to doing the update on mine. Thanks for the video.
Everything you see is totally sincere. IDK what to say....
Tuning on worn props is a really good idea, I dig it
Noice. Now that I know what twiddle with I'm excited to do an afternoon tune sesh on my freestyle quad.
I love and really recomend any hyperlow frame. I especially like the hyperlow rs.
My friend flies the rs+ and I fly the CG. They are great frames. Just dont expect to treat them like a chameleon.
i have watched this video probably 3 times. along with my quad plugged into beta flight. has anyone else noticed that changes are made to the PID's between takes?
Really enjoy your videos. Such a chill setting to learn. On the porch trees in the background and the bird chirping.
Great Video! i think Betaflight should just offer different default settings for freestyle and racing...
I noticed the stiffness immediatly when I tried to fly round a tree and managed to do a 180 yaw and exit the turn the same place I entered it. It was a big suprise to me when that happened especially on my crappy 30m range VTX where I can barely see a tree in front of me. I thought I missed it at first XD.
My hero! I was trying to figure out what to change for some gnarly bounce back,! Thank you JB!
Hey Joshua, don't forget to calibrate your glasses, maybe just a little trim will do the job. ;o)
Anyway, thank you very much for your work, it's a pleasure each time to learn something from you.
One of my quads flys really robotic on 4.0. Thanks JB I'll sit down with this and see how she goes this weekend
I think it speaks volume given that you dont ever really mess with PIDs. You change the features that affect the stock pids
I did adjust the D gains :-)
The truth is that the stock PIDs are "right" for most situations, at least if you're running a typical 5" quad like the devs tend to tune on.
@@JoshuaBardwell I know you do but just barely, and I personally didnt notice a difference. Im sure you did on the sticks of course. Compared to a couple years ago its amazing.
Yaaaaaaas! Hyperlow. That's what I fly the most!
Really liked how my vert racer flew but I crash a lot. With the battery on the top, I could only afford to lose so much pack.
@@Gs3xRfun Yeah, for racing, battery on top tends to break more packs. Cause that's the first thing that hits. But apart from a few Hyperlow RS racers I'm flying RS+ for freestyle. Just recently I built a 5S and a 6S freestylers.
Great video. I really need more help with filters, and this helped get me a little further towards understanding what feature does what. And tuning for flight feel really is just as important as tuning for smoothness/bounceback/propwash/etc.
I really appreciate your teachings. I learn from you everyday!!! Thank you so much JB.
7:46 - I wonder if this happened to everybody that was trying out BF 4.0 :D it happened to me too and I felt like a stupid noob....now I feel ok seeing that it happened to Joshua too :)
Great video I'm learning and building my first 220 and looking forward for this kind of videos. Thank u.
Thanks so much JB ,for your work on this video . Going to try this out Saturday.
First: I dont have the time to know what every little setting does. I need a spreadsheet or something. Second: I don't know if the settings matter more or if its the actual skill of the flyer which dictates performance. Lasty: I just rebuilt my Armattan rooster with a 900Mhz RX and upgraded to Betaflight 4.x. I copied and pasted your PIDs @39:54. Good enough lol
Fantastic, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃
Anyway, I think you should try setting to gyro. Who knows, even if you don't like it, the test would be really valuable for us. 😊
I agree MC! I use setpoint on my race quad and gyro on my freestyle as suggested, but I can't compare the two since they're completely different. Some data like blackbox logs from the same quad would be cool to look at.
@@d3c0deFPV ruclips.net/video/QfiGTG5LfCk/видео.html
I had a really hard time with my Marmotte!! I had to touch everything! Filters, p.i.d's. It took me about 3 weekend's to get rid of propwash along with stick feel!!
What did you end up with?
@@pippifpv Yes, can you tell us what settings you ended up with?
that tune look pretty damn good in the end there. It looked like you had a lot of authority over movement!
Maybe try RPM filtering if you’re feeling adventurous. They should help with MTOs and basically get rid of 95% of visible prop wash in HD. I did try that setup for a couple of weeks but ended up going back to Kiss.
Another great video, love to sit down after work and get ready to learn. Could totally watch you just fly around all day, love your style!
Can't wait to try this out on my quad and see how it feels (Not sure it will really help as it's a power whoop 85/75x 2s Frankenstein ....
Happy Flying Mr Bardwell!
Can't wait to see what you'll teach us next!
In that last flight you could almost see when the I term relax would kick on and off. Interesting.
Thanks I really appreciate the knowledge especially as this is all pre first build research to kind of understand as much as I can before I get into the meat of it all
Will use this video for my new quad
Ok, this is good. Now i hope we're gonna learn how to get rid of that persistent jello 4.0 itroduced. Speaking bout all those throttle changes and forward flight , making punchouts and cruising looks like garbage.
Thank you very much for the info, i got the 2019 diatone gt r349, its a bit tricky figuring this betaflight out, and getting the frsky transmitter switches right! Use to just turning the transmitter on then quad and go, cheap drones ive been flying, ready for some fpv racing
this is actually great! thank you very much!! but on super sharp turn with almost max throttle the kwad somersaults..
🤣🤣🤣you got excited when you seen the FedEx truck 👀 😄😄😄
wow, so in depth, thank you soooo VERY much, now you like something challenging? Try you hand with tuning 7" quads...no one likes tuning or attempting to tune them, are you an exception?
Great job !! I have the same frame, and i hope this video can help me. Thanks very much
The knowledge is unending
Thanks Josh great information, well worth watching.
Joshua that camera its streaming really good men I like the pic. I know had nothing to do wit the pid tuning lol lol
Just fried my VTX 5848 lite and I don't know why?? I wired it all correctly and checked twice? Luckily I unplugged it in time to save the quad.. It still flies fine😊 there was a puff of smoke and that smell we all know.. Ideas guys??
I want to see some focus on Cinematic (not a BS term it's a different way of flying to achieve excellent footage) PIDs and Rates and Filtering.
Whats the story with the camera jello? Not a tune related thing but the GoPro mount?
Been waiting for this work from JB! Thanks! Always very good info sharing!!!
My quad flies like crap on 4.0, all new components, structure looks solid, but there is a lot o jello and low thr vibs in flight...
Been on the up and down filter numbers, UAV tech sugestions, pids lowered, pids up... more than 60 packs...
Going onto BB to see if it gets better, if not, new FC will be the case, a bad gyro might be the reason... im using a ICM20608, hummm bad choice...
DRONE LEGION FPV I’m having the same problem with the Matek F722SE. The gyro is seeing noise at like 90hz. Frame is tight and the motors are new. I cannot figure it out. The only way to hide it is to use Hypersmooth. I tried both gyros...mpu6000 and 20602.
@@inoc805 Having a MPU6000 on the way... Hope it ill come to that... or else new build an BIN this one... I still have a HELIO build to finnish... but I dont need any more head aches! Thanks for replying! ;D
Woah Woah Woah I just realized you knocked the Samguk motors bro those motors are Das Bomb versus some bigger names like RacerStar Eachine, HappyModel KingKong. There are only a few that are considered quality and R&R HypeTrain ain't in that list by the way . Still reluctant to fork out $23 USD for a hype motor versus a Brother Hobby or a Xing
I stand by my opinion of Samguk. Ok for the money but hit or miss quality and poor durability.
Marvelous and thorough video!!!
I'm not getting rapidfire... Thanks JB for a great introduction to BF4.
Always Love your Tune Video... Joshua..! Thanks.!!
Graet vido and iam thinkg the same on my Armatan Rooster Gyro and Freestyle ,and no my new Diatone GT 548 MK3 Setpoint and Racing PIDs and the same like you are telling us with 4.0.2 - Thanks for yor vidio and happy flaying times :-))))))
I think you can notice the difference in the tunes by listening with headphones on and notch watching the video footage... example 40:33
Thanks Joshua
I’m i wrong or I can see midthrottle oscillations?
I have seen it to :-)))))))
This is very helpful! Thanks Joshua !
I had succes disabling all the gyro filters and lowering the dterm filter min=60hz max=175hz. Makes it fly even better. Suggestion from uavtech
Lowering I-term from the "default freestyle setting" to the default 4.0 helped make it feel more connected.
Joshua that last pack was epic 💥🔥
That reason right there is why i fly laforge,the way a google fails is what matters.Laforge is so predictable,it always just gets gradually more snowy.
This needs a follow up video about solving that jello problem you had from the start
The biggest way to solve jello is with an ND filter.
@@JoshuaBardwell Isn't that just masking the problem?
@@JoshuaBardwell its not solving, just converting it to vertical blur (that more pleasing I must admit) by longer shutter speeds. You will loose the crisp sharpness of your expensive Gopro.
I was so annoyed that my computer was freezing on the first frame....
Chris Sullivan was also very pissed at my iPhone, almost went android lol.
@@Zeesneakyninja you feel my pain
same
I'm gonna learn something today!
Perfekt erklärt. :) Genau danach habe ich gesucht. Vielen Dank :)
Good job JB, u make a guide Aldo for 7"? Or u can tell us the best tuning for long range?
Go to the github betaflight 4.0 tuning notes and cut and paste the large quad settings into your CLI.
Go to the github betaflight 4.0 tuning notes and cut and paste the large quad settings into your CLI.
Would you like to adopt a 16 yold who likes drones and planes. (Will mow your grass and feed the animals for one quad a month as payment. He does not eat a whole lot as he is currently depressed as his goggles dont work
LMAO
Sorry to hear that, dude. 😔
MC's Creations i am too :’(
@@maxiemusfpv198 Try to get the Eachine VRD3. I REALLY liked those! They're cheaper and lighter than the EV800D (which I also have and are pretty good).
The Corvette/Caddilac analogy.......
For racing feel noiceeerrr MCK here i come wawawa🤣
Probably vic fpv could test the ff n tuning i thing his one of a aggressive pilot on stick that we know 😊
How about posting all the settings in a document or something... :)
Thank you so much for this!
AL
I flashed from 3.5 to 4.02 with no issue at all.
I'd blame the motors for the minor shakes in HD.
Thanks Joshua for a lot of work in PID tuning!
I am looking for an answer to my problem:
BF 4.0.4, D_min 22/25, D 25/28 and I still have hot engines after the flight ... Below I can not go down with the value of D - drone then has huge propwash and wobble. Everything is completely new, i.e. Engines, propellers, etc. The engines are RCX NK2207 2400KV.
I'm afraid that during the summer heat I will burn them ...
Can you help something?
I think something is wrong with the filter settings in Betaflight (filters have default values).
Drone built for freestyle ...
Im having the same issue. just built my first quad and flashed 4.0.3 and first flight was horrible. I couldn't go higher than maybe 40% throttle the oscillations were so bad. So after like a 1 minute flight my battery was almost drained and motors were pretty warm/ almost hot. I moved D-gain down to 10 or 15 and that helped alot but motors are still getting extremely warm.
i am really wondering how you don't get sick with all those flip & rolls , i indeed cannot be used ti this but i like to watch you, for as long time i can handle
i want the full ride joshua
May I ask for some proximity flying, if you have time? Perhaps on one of your 2207 builds? Thank you joshua, I always appreciate your input