You dont need to drop enchanting anymore, since trading is allowed !!!! So enchanting could be viable again on official. Maybe you can make a profession tierlist for official HC ?
Most of the warrior deaths are people trying to do dps as one. Then they over aggro the tank and die. Its much much safer to play a prot tank warrior in dungeons than a fury dps.
As someone who lost 2 warlocks in the mid and late game, I can say its definitely an overconfidence and complacency issue. Both times I died, I was playing relaxed because everything up to that point was ez. I could have easily avoided dying if I was paying attention. So yea the danger is feeling more powerful than you really are. Kinda fitting for that class fantasy if you think about it lol
My hunter died to overconfidence. I was steadily killing mobs 3-4 levels above me and my pet died to the 4th respawn. Everything respawned around me and I couldn't get away. No FD at that point yet.
I died at low level with a couple warlocks. Out of the clothy classes they by far have the least ways to escape once mobs start actually punching you in the face.
I wouldn't be surprised if the warlock numbers are so low because of people life tapping themselves to ridiculously low hp and then getting ganked by a random mob they didn't see
Life tap is trash and should never be used unless you got a healer. That's probably why Warlocks die, they use a trap spell. The HP is better spent tankning and wanding. Warlock get godmode once they unlock Dark Pact.
Shaman really does have it rough in a lot of situations. There's so many enemies immune to nature or fire damage - aka, the two main damaging spell types for Shaman. And while you can self heal its all long hard casts on a limited mana bar. With Warlocks I think its mostly overconfidence that gets people killed.
I made it to 60 on a Shaman during SoM. I ended up quitting because the lack of Horde. I was the only non-hunter at 60. I found Shaman to be a lot easier once you hit 40 and finally get burst damage.
As long as you don't spam shocks and mostly autoattack, as well as using healing stream totem and stoneskin totem for mitigation, you use mana to refresh your health and move onto the next pack.
Forgot to mention Mages can put down a portal to a capital city before a dangerous pull or mob. If stuff goes sideways or looks bad you can take the portal.
Some salty comments, yet they have a point. Warlock is not the hardest... it is the bane of the overconfident. You feel powerful leveling as a warlock, but you're always one bad fear/death coil/mistimed life tap away from death.
For anyone rolling Shaman: please don't use windfury, use rockbiter instead. It's decent dps and it works 100% of the time so you never get caught out by rng. If you die because windfury didn't proc that's on you (I don't know how good flametongue is on a fast weapon but I sometimes hear people mention that as well so perhaps worth a shot). Also Stoneclaw totem won't taunt mobs off you, it generates too little threat. Use it at the start of a fight to split mobs up, if you're fighting one mob use Flame Shock and Flametongue instead of Earth shock so you generate less threat.
From the time I remember spending in the classic shaman discord I think the best option was FT on fast weapons and RB on slow. I did a bunch of leveling as a "tanky" enhance and got the defensive talents like the extra armor and dodge and shield block. I even tanked instances up to SM. FT on a fast weapon like a dagger was great for damage but if I needed to hold more threat then id use RB. WF procs on 2 handers is a nice feeling but when you miss or it doesnt proc man does it suck
As the fastest lvl 60 shaman on classic wow on server i Can tell you rockbiter is tier 1 then flame tounge then windfury. When you could duel wield windfury is better. But on 2 hand rockbiter is BIS in classic
Yeah, same reasons why I think Hunter is as high as it is. Both are very easy if you are paying attention, but can get you into trouble easily if you don't know how to manage things, particularly your pet.
Also people tend to forget to keep their Pet on a leesh. When a ranged mob is attacking you and your Voidwalker decides to run towards the enemy and thereby pull 3-5 extra... very easy way to die...
@@90kalos1it depends from when the stats are taken i guess. I levelled my sham to 56 and stopped there. addon shows run still at valid :D played ele and had a blast. you can also do nearly every elite quest as shaman with searing totem kite
@@Stompy1984 yep. After my first shaman died at 32 from falling down in 1k needles I started the 2nd as ele. Got blackfang early (16,7 dps dagger) and played with flametounge, searing and flames hock a lot, cause I had some + fire spell dmg. In sm my war friend passed me the shield from the endboss and I became the giga tank :D And dont get me started on blasting ele mastery every 3 mins and 1shot a mob
I think you should concider that problably warlocks die earlier since they are known to be very powerful which makes it so people get overconfident. Compared to a warr where players will take everything very slowly since they know they are vunerable
@@sonnyrosen7172 Yeah, I think the more interesting take from this would be that it shows us that hardcore has a very large first time WoW player population.
Fear is a fickled tool... I've seen way to many warlocks who don't know how to use recklessness to control mobs that they have feared that head to agro more mobs.
The biggest problem with levelling any class hardcore isn't a problem with the class...even warriors with their heavy weapon dependency or those early wands for clothies. No, the biggest problem is the other side of the screen. It's impatience. Take your time. Build up your defence skill. Wait for mobs to move on. Kite and use CC. Don't just charge in. Use various pulls. One of the first things I spend money on for warriors, for example, is the thrown weapon skill.
The funny thing is that mage is actually even stronger than these numbers suggest because people get ambitious and play far more recklessly than they should exactly because how strong they are and then they die when they could've easily lived.
every class is a skill issue. Problem is that people think always for some reason, "lol warlock needs to skill" then fail miserably. Remember how everyone was saying before tbc launch "lol dot dot 2v2 arena with warlock easy 2k rating" and almost all of those people quit arena with warlock?... yeah. 99% of the people who say warlock is easy, never actually played warlock out of shadowbolt spam in raids.
Warlock is absolutely amazing. The issue is newbs on repeat making them and dieing. When vanilla was botted to hell it was warlocks all over lvl 20 zones farming endlessly.
@@clintongriffin2077according to stats only 0.09% make to lvl 60 that means not only new players get cucked , and saying skill issue only proves point, hell yes it's skill issue, if it wasn't there would be higher % of people succeeding...
@@Chopery You are missing a major point. Losing a lvl 40 char to getting spawned on. Is not the same to lemmings dieing on repeat at skullrock and darkstorm at lvl 11 lol.
As a Warlock, I can say that the biggest problem we have is overconfidence. I have died so many times to DoT n Run with my Void and just over pulling. And that is as Warlock that have contrbuted I think 50 deaths to that 8.8k deaths.
Yeah I leveled my Warlock by killing 3 mobs at a time from levels 1-20 and it wasn't hard at all. People are dying because they kill 3 then the hyperspawns kick in and you have 6 mobs on you and no escape. If you play like a Warrior with a Voidwalker pet, you will never die.
@@lightner6924 first of all... why do you care how someone wastes their time? and second, see point one imagine having to tell someone how they spend their time.
@@lightner6924 There are ppl out there who simply enjoy leveling, atleast let them have fun for 1-2 months. :) I can not imagine myself playing that mode, because of how much time you need to sink in for just 1 ranom DC/lag or an idiot in dungeon to pull a lot and you die.
It's one of the hardest quests in the game, no matter the race, especially Orc. As Undead or Human/Gnome, you face 3 mobs. You can clear out everything else first, then pull, and kill one, then run away. But that caster quest mob will be slamming you with spells, so you'll be lucky to get out. Then, go back and kill another mob, using the same method. This leaves the final quest mob, but also mobs in the field could be respawning. On normal realms, I usually group for Princess, then ask the person/people I'm grouping with to help me with my VW quest. Don't think I've ever died doing it. But it's edge-of-your-seat gameplay. And don't forget the difficulty of getting your Imp, even, as Human. Again, you face 3 mobs.
@ncwordman How is it hard? Imp aggro one of the two guys at the same time you fear the other, then murder Serena and gg. I've yet to use a potion on that fight lol
@@notfred596 Good strategy. I didn't think of that. That's why it was it was hard to me. Guess you had to kill Serena quickly, as your imp would be thrashed in, what?...3 hits? 4? Anyway, gg and lol for you, I guess.
@ncwordman no kidding, imp dies in no time it's nuts haha. I yelled at him probably 20 times yesterday because I was used to the VW. Honestly, corruption, immolate, wand, gg
Warlock and Rogue players having the least chance to get to 60 is probably because both get really strong as you level up. What i mean is that they feel so strong that players aren't scared enough of Hardcore and take more chances, resulting in hilarious death videos. Rogues getting accustomed to jumping down high places, realizing mid jump that they are at half hp or forgetting to resupply on vanishing or blinding powder. Warlocks life tapping one time too many, not seeing that mob pathing too close behind him or fearing a mob thinking that he surely wont beeline for the only pack of mob neaby .... spoiler, they will. Shamans just aren't popular enough without the bait of globaling alliance players at 60.
Currently leveling my Rogue, at 48 right now. Definantly a class that scales incredibly well in terms of the tool-kit you get. Early game was brutal, Westfall Goretusks were a boss fight in their own right. I've been doing Elite solo quests at appropriate level/slightly higher (the earlier games ones more so due to having not much of my tool-kit). The hardest fight i've had is Lord Falconcrest in Arathi, whom I had to game from about 50% with Gouge spam into five point Kidney Shots and whittling him down. Rogues are definantly not a friendly class if you don't know what you're doing though.
I was surprised rogue was so low. I think in part it may be the idea people have that combat is far superior, when in reality after a rogue hits 30 or 31 they should almost always go into sub tree for hemo & prep along with better, faster stealth & better bleeds. I usually respec at 30 to hemo then get to 24 pt in sub with dirty deed & prep. Then go back into combat for riposte up to blade flurry & wep spec by 60. Mostly it is for the 2 sprint evasion vanish, but also the amount of money you can make pick pocketing, it just all adds up. But you do need to know when you are outmatched and to RUN asap.
I hated leveling as Rogue. You have no self heal, no cleave until blade flurry (and even then it's pretty bad for leveling),the worst armor for a melee class and simply way too long cooldowns on everything. I had to sit down and eat after every two mobs, aggroing 3 or more mobs was usually a death sentence.
@@Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhj I've rarely had to sit and eat after mobs. I mean sure really early game but i've always had a good supply of bandages (kept up to date ofc). Also, Alchemy is really slept on. Engineering is *slightly* over-rated and Alc is definantly under-rated.
when I saw this video's title first two classes that came to mind were warriors and warlocks, yeah I played both in vanilla back in the day...but with warlock I thought about thier minion that starts out as a weaker hunter pet and their resource that is famous for running out in vanilla
I don't know if Shield Slam is different in HC classic than it was in the original vanilla, but in vanilla nothing a Prot Warrior did hit harder than a limp noodle...it just had a lot of Threat on it when it did hit. Things didn't get interesting for Prot Warriors (in a good way) until WotLK, at which point you could get some good gear and trinkets and have Shield Slam hitting like a freight train. I actually won solo duels against most of my opponents (even some Paladins, shockingly) in WotLK until about midway through the xpac, when they nerfed some of the pertinent stats. It was still miles better than anything previous.
when we started playing wow, back in the days, on a private server(2007). This one friend lvl-d a warrior to lvl 43, only killing mobs. He never done a quest or went to a trainer ... From lvl 1 to lvl 43 Dying over and over again in Tanaris, struggling to kill mobs etc... He asked us, what's the problem?! Logged his caracter, explained what happened, why he's not progressing ... That is hardcore ... xD After he literally flew through lvl-s! I just appreciate the time, effort and patience he put in that single Character!
Shaman is hard just because you auto so much as enhance, you're eventually just not going to proc windfury, probably a few times on the way to 60. Losing Ankh, and lock losing soulstone, doesn't help either. You also can't pick up totems yet so they just sit there, waiting to agro some adds.
One thing I don't hear many people comment on, but personally I feel is a big element of the difficulty between classes in Classic Hardcore is Martial vs Magic classes. Spellpower isn't really a thing in Classic, especially when leveling, and things which add an INT/Spirit to spellpower conversion are also fairly rare, this means when you buy a Rank of a spell, the power it does is always going to be fairly standardized, and your stats really won't weigh into it much at all, nor will your gear. Having bonus INT is always nice, but its far from required in order to stay at pace with enemy scaling. If you have 20 or 200 int, your spell still hits the same. Comparing this to martial classes, who will need to take risks to try and target powerful weapons, scale their weapon skill, keep spell ranks maxed, and find gear to scale up their attack power all to stay at a consistent power curve, I think that any class which is dependent on weapons is at a massive disadvantage in terms of hurdles they need to cross. Saying all this, I don't find it surprising at all to see where different classes fall, and it also seems to fit that druids who don't need to worry about weapons also have an advantage because of it. The one factor which does surprise me is seeing Warlocks being at the bottom, but I think thats really just down to a skill/knowledge issue over the class being bad. Their toolkit seems fantastic for the challenge is you're utilizing it correctly, but the whole fantasy of the class kind of leans into Risk vs reward, or payment for power, so it kind of tends that if you can't walk the line, its easy too lose control of the situation and make your life harder then it needs to be. I'm still in the mindset that honestly, this whole challenge is as easy or as difficult as you make it. Nothing is stopping you from grinding neutral mobs in safe areas. Going into Dungeons, fighting elite mobs, or even mobs that are Yellow/Orange leveled, and even doing a lot of quests all just feel like taking on additional risks, and people do it because its what they assume is the correct way to play, but all of those are additional risk vectors which can lead to a death which is 100% avoidable by just taking a more boring, safe approach to the game.
Part of why warlocks are so low is because they don't get the base damage of mages. Similar to rogues and warriors, warlocks scale really well with gear, but unlike the former 2, they scale with gear that doesn't exist for most of the game. Intellect might be objectively the worst stat in the game and for warlocks especially. They should be going out of their way to find gear that has stamina instead, unless they can grab some of the rare pieces which have spell power on their path to 60. Hopefully with AH on official servers, they'll be able to grab a piece or two of shadow wrath gear as well.
@@IWubYooz Another thing is that the Warlock's toolkit is, incomparison to all other classes in Vanilla, HUGE! Mages might have around 3-2 buttons they use while killing things (Frostbolt, Frost Nova, Blink and Drink Water mostly) while Warlocks already use 3-4 buttons for just their normal spells and does not include any Pet management, curses (apart from Agony) or any of the different Soul Stone-based spells. IF I were to try Hardcore, I surely would go Warloc simply because... or Warrior since they are awesome to level with :P
Spellpower may not have really been a thing in VANILLA until raids...in classic that is not true at all, you will see as much if not more SP on gear than you will AP, spell vs melee crit is the same.
@@IWubYooz I didn't say str/agi, the comparison there would be INT. I said AP, as in attack power, and crit. This is one of my bigger issues with Classic, the 1.12 itemization mixed with the 1.12 raid nerfs really neutered the first 2 raid tiers. Casters should have been going into MC with
I tried playing a warrior for the first time actually and wanted to try leveling as prot, for however painful and unsophisticated that might be! Unfortunately, i ended up as a statistic at exactly level 13 🙈 I ran into a barn in westfall and 3 defias fell onto me, netted me and killed me. I had such a good time though, so much so I made another :D
Surprised by warlock. I was one of the first on my server to hit 60 on Classic with my lock and it felt ungodly strong while leveling. I remember soloing quests way above my level and taking on elite mobs. Imp is strong as hell right out the gate and add in a wand and the lower levels are so fast. Assuming you're not straight cheeks and can survive the journey, the power jump around 30-40 is just insane.
Warlocks SHOULD be easy and safe to level. However, the class seems to attract idiots. Many have a compulsion to lifetap until their mana bar is full, no matter what else is going on. Also there is a lvl 10 class quest for warlocks that's dangerous because you don't have a voidwalker yet. I imagine that would thin the herd. The strange thing is how the ranks keep thinning after that.
@@RandoverseI think warrior is the hardest in a vacuum but it's so popular that the amount of information on how to do it successfully is enormous. There are level by level guides and immense data on the best gear to get and when.
I saw a roster of people signing up for molten core a while ago and i was kinda surprised to see that it was mainly healers and far less hunters/mages than i expected.
@@SuacoRVI'd be careful putting too much into the small sample size, there are a shit load of hunters at 60 and a fair number of mages. But personally I think people rolling HC based on endgame are making a mistake.
I figured pally would be highest average level, with potion + 10s bubble + insta full heal + hand of freedom if you recognize a dangerous situation early and you press all of those buttons you live, just walk away, I ran into so many elites and just walked away, level 42 so far
One issue for warlocks is that the blueberry quest is not easy mode for all races. If you try to do the orc one solo, you're gonna be back in valley of trials in a few moments.
As a warlock main I think a lot of warlocks starting out overuse life tap and it gets them one shot coz they life tap down to like 20% health. To any warlocks reading this, try not to life tap below about 50%, it'll save your life a lot and the extra mana, while nice, isnt worth deleting the character if playing hardcore or respawning and having to run back to your body and losing the soul shard.
The next warlock in groups that life tap down to 10% health frequently because "Pushing deeps bro!", will be left to die. No tank pickup if tanking. No healing. They are obnoxious players. Most warlocks don't life tap properly anyway. It can be snuck into rotations without even impacting things like wanding. Life Tap should never have to be done twice in a row. Sneak one in, allow some health regen, sneak in another, etc.
@@moroth9541 Heya, pally healer since vanilla classic came out here, PSA to all warlocks: Your lock's life is worth infinitely less than the tank's, therefore die at your earliest tapping convenience if it pleases you. If I can throw you a heal, I will. But tank comes first.
@@moroth9541 When I heal in classic, as a priest, I am trying to cast as few heals as possible with as much time spent in between heals as possible to conserve my mana and not get low. Why? Because in almost any pug there is a very high chance some dps moron will pull an extra pack or not cc a runner, etc and then shit hits the fan and I need all of my mana to keep the group alive. You say to cast a greater heal every 5-8 seconds, but that heal takes 3 seconds to cast and the tank might die in that time. I could do it between pulls but that's when I am counting on my regen to get me back to full and casting a heal on you resets the 5s rule. It's also a massive amount of mana for a single greater heal and it doesn't take long before I am oom. Usually I will toss a renew onto a warlock just before I stop casting but more than that and then we have to stop after every pull so I can drink. I can often run entire dungeons without drinking if I don't have to break my mana regen windows to heal a lazy or inconsiderate warlock.
dont forget the god awful attack range on hunter, it says 8 yards min but that crap is around 16 at best, making it completely impossible to do damage if something is close.
With warlock I think it's a coalescence of 2 problems. First is that until you get voidwalker, you are the tank and your only CC is Fear; which has a proclivity to cause that extra mob you couldn't deal with as it was to find a few more friends to hunt you down. Second is that a lot of you're leveling experience is tuned around the fact you have soulstone, eventually.
I was wondering, if your soulstone is up on you and you die, the soulstone overtake the hardcore rule, right ? Which means you have a second chance ? It would make sense, but with hardcore rules I wouldnt know !
@@ppsarrakis Greetings from two months later. They banned Bubble+Hearth. Personally, I think they should give Soulstone and Shaman Reincarnation a new and different functionality to make up for what has been lost. They could make Soulstone absorb a hit that would have killed you, drop all threat, and then you become invulnerable for 8 seconds after it's consumed, but you're unable to attack and use spells and abilities for the duration. Shaman Reincarnation could be made so that you can shift into the Ghost world, becoming a Ghost for 8 seconds, dropping combat, and being invisible to anyone alive and unable to attack or use abilities for the duration. The Shaman version has a 1 hour cooldown like Reincarnation, as opposed to Soulstone's 30 minute cooldown. It also requires active use, rather than passive activation, thus the Shaman skill should be slightly more powerful. I think that's fair.
Would be interesting to see if the average level before death is calculated using the mean or median. I want to see how much more lower level deaths squew the data lower.
I haven’t done more research on this addon or its data, but I feel like overall class popularity is very important in this picture. I imagine that the rogue and warlock are far more popular than the paladin, which causes lower knowledge people to be playing these characters. I feel that if you’re rolling paladin, you’re more likely a specialist or higher knowledge than a random playing warlock. I say that because I would not play paladin, and I’m a random that goes and dies on warlock and rogue.
I played several classes, died in the 20's, the Priest and Druid felt the best to me. I'm a Hunter/Warlock/Monk main over the retail years, but i think the pet can be a bit of a liability in HC and it leads to over-confidence.
Warrior was easiest for me, go fury and your damage is surreal and you have plate armor so you shrug off blows like nothing. Add in Herb/Alch and fishing/cooking and you are basically an elite mob yourself and as long as you have swiftness potions you'll get away from any situation.
The Warlock!? I was not expecting that at all! I decided not to go Warlock because I knew I could cruise to level 60 on it. Tailoring, fishing, skinning and you're set.
For a new player, warlock early game is basically just death over and over. Just one of those weird classes where its super hard early game for a noob but one of the easiest (if not the easiest) 1-60 for any experienced player.
I as someone who leveled a warlock, after lvling a warrior in vanilla, WTF. Lvling a warlock was so easy compared to a warrior. Yeah you can get cocky once you get fear and try to juggle too many mobs, but if you just pull like any other class it's a breeze.
When I started WoW in 2005, I intended to choose a hunter purely because I had always played a ranger type in various RPGs. When I saw that humans couldn't be rangers, I chose Warrior because I thought it would be a simple, straightforward class. If I'd chosen a hunter (or any other class, for than matter) first and then attempted a warrior later...my warrior would NEVER have made it past level 20.
Coming from ascension, i loved the idea of Drain Life hitting everything in a cone in front of me making me unkillable. I forgot one day on hardcore.... learned that lesson very quickly
What's funny about warlock is I played it on launch in 2019 and felt like I could almost never die lol. Was one of the most fun leveling experiences I had next to warrior. I remember not even buying food or water until later levels. Leveling fun wise id say it's near warrior, endgame obviously diff lol.
The real problem with locks is that they pull an INSANE i repeat I N S A N E amount of threat, so their pets pretty much become pointless by the time the fight goes over 5 seconds. So inexperience locks go "oh wow, i can use my void to tank, i just need to spam casts and that's it, ez class" but that could not be furthest from the truth.
I will never understand why people stick to WF and 2h weapon with shaman while leveling. Yeah WF crits look juicy but most of the time you just stand and auto waiting for this lucky hit which has no sense cause usually they take like half of the mob hp and you get the proc.... when they are 25%. So most of the proc is often wasted. What you do is use fast 1h with shield and use flametongue/rockbiter. You have steady and very good dps (you are not that much behind WF) and also good defensive with shield. Overally its more XP/h with fast 1h + shield than 2h +WF because yes, you have a little less DPS, but you spend less time eating/drinking in between.
I don't know about now or what iterations of the game they use for Classic, but in the majority of vanilla, Windfury could proc off itself quite reliably, had no internal cooldown, and was more likely to proc the slower your weapon speed. So you had these shamans "one-shotting" clothies in BGs with twohanders and mowing through mobs quite quickly in PvE because WF would give them insane amounts of additional attacks. It was almost like a mini "Reckoning Bomb". That's the only reason I can think for the draw, other than seeing big yellow numbers.
@@valecrassus7835 The change was introduced in 1.4 so I wouldn't majority. Also, the proc chance was always 20% and there was no such thing like "wf proccing from itself". The issue was that WF was causing weapon swing timer to reset, so another white hit right away after WF proc which could proc WF again. Fun for one-shot montages, totally garbage otherwise. And classic is on the last patch of an expansion so with nerfed WF.
I've played Locks for years, currently levelling one in classic and you have to be really careful because you have not got any decent escape tools, fear is a double edged sword and if you lose your pet in a bad situation you better have your escape route planned a HS and health pot all ready. A wand again can be a life saver early on. At 15 and not dead yet, problem is the class quests are far ranging and numerous in deadly areas :)
@@jessejamez707 No, a warrior pulled a load of mobs onto me, was fuming with the idiot, do not know if he was wanting to take me with him or if it was a genuine accident.
Very interesting data! Im about to start on HC myself and watching this got me thinking before rolling a character. I can see why rogue is down there very appealing dps role but not for the inexperienced players (not in HC at least) and so i can see many pushing the class to their limits and failing :D Also playing a pet class in HC seems rough if you dont control them properly with macros etc
Finally some validation as a hunter player, the number of people yelling "easy mode" "noob class" etc. is always so obnoxious. Yes, I could pick something harder, but I clearly have a few picks for something easier as well. I think the more important point too, is that the differences in data are not so big that any one class is "free" and people should just be allowed to play what's fun and what they are best at.
If you level a hardcore shaman you should be going Resto for reduced healing pushback and Nature's Swiftness before branching into Enhance. You literally do not need the slight extra damage early on using a staff and 1h/shield swap hotkey; it's a massive waste compared to the survivability of an instant max heal and 75% less heal pushback including improved cast time.
Have gotten a hardcore Warlock to 60 myself i Can see why the average player with No experience wouldnt handle it. Over lifetapping and relying to much on pet and not Training defense stats are just few things
I can't help but think that the warlock placement is based on fear rng pathing to a large degree as it's often the go to when 1 too many mobs are pulled
I'm honestly surprised about Warlock. Apparently I've played warlock a lot and I can't imagine what difficulties a beginner might face. Voidwalker is really a terrible tank in vanilla. But his shield can save more than once. Before lvl 40, it makes sense to invest talents in demonology to be able to summon a demon in 0.5 seconds to get the shield.
The only reasonable explanation, other than the stats being wrong which I will assume is not the case, is that hardcore has a huge first time WoW player population which is causing warlocks to be farmed
@@bluesteel6310 Probable a lot of Orc Warlocks that die in Skull Rock while being level 10 while doing their Voidwalker Pet Quest and thereby lowering the average Death level...
Do these stats include/exclude duos and trios though? I would imagine there are more priest x warrior duos, and there are more warlocks soloing. This could definitely affect the stats.
Warlocks are almost certainly not the hardest class to level. Probably up with one of the easiest (if you have a general idea of how to use the class). There's probably just a lot of bad/otherwise inexperienced people picking the class up knowing it's easy and dying due to carelessness or lack of experience. Not because the class is weak to level with. It's a fucking Warlock rofl. Judging what is easiest/hardest to level based on how many people have died playing something is pretty useless imo. You have to evaluate classes strengths/weaknesses/tools respective to something like a hardcore challenge. Doing that put warlocks way up around the top of best classes. But all the tools in the world won't help someone who's clueless or careless.
as a warlock player myself, I had to go again only 1 time it was so weird, my defense skill was capped, I was in westfall against gnolls, 2 in specific, the 2 of them aggroed onto me and my voidwalker couldnt taunt them off, and even though I had potion, health cookie, and defense was raised, I just couldnt run away, and it was so fast too, this class is bait, its not easy :(
@@BobbyFlay14 yeah later I learned that you can just corruption and agony any mob and have the voidwalker attack it, if you dont use immolate, the voidwalker will retain aggro and solo it, and you can wand to speed up the process
@@BobbyFlay14 That is a solid strategy and it works as that’s what I do though you shouldn’t always do this as you occasionally want to level up your defensive skills a little bit so you’re less likely to get critically hit.
@@SillyGirlKisser74 It's just stupid though that the Voidwalker's Agro skill costs more and more mana the higher level it gets... Warlock Pet should also have worked with CD-based abilites without any Mana attached to it.
I’ve been a Warlock main pretty much since original vanilla. I think this is the “skill” of a lock, playing around VW level and knowing what dots you can and can’t use. With next rank taunt, you can probs immo for a level or two then it’s back down to CoA/Corr until it learns another taunt rank
Died on my Paladin earlier than Warrior, due to hyper spawns in a cave that my Warrior would have avoided. Just goes to show that overconfidence is one of the biggest factors in HC. I thought I could survive anything on the Paladin.
Of the five classes I've levelled to 60 (in Vanilla/Classic, not HC), the one I distinctly remember suffering the most with, especially early game, is hunter. I was quite shocked and surprised by this, due to their beginner-friendly/EZ-mode reputation you aptly covered. And you hit the nail on the head. Besides your pet, early level, you really don't have many survivability tools to fall back on. It's mainly that you get taken by surprise that you're left so vulnerable, particularly once you're not in control of your pet as main aggro gameplay anymore. You covered this point very well, so I wanted to echo your thoughts on this. Cheers.
If this is vanilla Wow do they still have that not getting their pet till level 10? Or are they able to have a pet from the beginning just not control it? I remember when leveling a hunter that was the worst until you got the pet.
I have to say, this is the complete opposite of my experience. Leveled a Warrior first in WoW (started Jun 2005), then a hunter about 6 or 8 months later. Hunters were an absolute breeze by comparison, in every aspect of the game. I realized as I was approaching level 30 that I hadn't died on my hunter even once. Once you got a pet, the level grind was absolute easy mode. PvP was *far* more enjoyable.
In non hardcore my guild in classic had a running joke that elf has the best racial for leveling a warrior - wisp spirit Also, I hate when feign death crits and you get that release spirit button
I think warlocks would do a lot better if the log was from the release spirit button not the actual death, so that you could keep going if you had a soul stone or a party member to rez you.
Xaryu, a mage-main (former R1, multi-Glad mage AFAIK), fairly easily got his HC mage to lvl60, but he has yet to repeat the feat of completing the HC challenge on any other class (I think), so that--the mage class being statistically easiest--makes sense
@@Weavelol source? alexensual?? the entire point was that he dies in dumb ways. look at any hc players deaths and 99% of them die in really stupid ways.
He’s not dying for views, but you’d be crazy to think he’s not intentionally taking risks to see what you’re able to accomplish with different classes. If you’re implying that the challenge is harder than hitting rank 1 with a mage, I highly encourage you to reconsider the thought. I have to assume you are because you have to mention his personal accolades. I’ve done the challenge on warrior, hunter, and shaman. Of the three, hunter was by far the easiest, slap on cheetah and you’re just perpetually invincible by kiting. But all 3 classes have the same issue, which is. Y the time you’re in your 40s your leveling speed slows down dramatically and the risk of death isn’t cause the world is challenging, you just get bored. Xar, and anyone whose done the challenge and don’t really have to prove themselves to anyone, knows this and is just having a good time doing what he thinks is fun while farming thousands of views and dollars off people. Either people that really think he just can’t do it, or by people being entertained by his streamer personality and trying out the various class specific cheeses you can do to solo difficult quests/ playing with viewers who struggle to get past the teens/20s and need dungeons. There’s no conspiracy, it’s just having a good time lol. I drowned my second hunter in stormwind in his 40s the day before the PTR with an audience. People freak out, but at the end of the day none of it matters besides just doing what’s fun.
The reason why so many player die so easily, is because they are often not willing to do what is required to stay alive. By that I mean use EVERY single advantage the game can give you. Make macros, use scrolls, use potions, get buffs. In classic all buffs stacked wonderfully. The best players take great advantage of this.
Priest has a massive hit boost early on. Resulting in smooth sailing fast. Yes, can be a bit boring, but the dmg is actually quite good, especially early on with the wand.
Then you realize your wand is being used to level 40 hits harder than your poor spells until you can go into shadwform, but if you're not upgrading your wand you'll have a huge deadzone of poor damage.
The flaw of this data is that people who are bad are more likely to pick the safer classes, Paladin is obviously very safe but only played by Paladin mains usually because it is boring so obviously it remains high, Hunter is ridiculously good for Hardcore but is picked up by many people BECAUSE it is good, same with Warlock, the people who are bad at the game are more likely to pick up classes that are better and drag down the overall score.
I doubt that tbh. In statistics such biases are usually watered out the bigger the sample size is (numbers of peoplee playing). Each quest in the open world is a potential chance of dying. So if you are that bad then you likely won't reach 60 no matter what class you play...or you are learning as you go as most people do, and thus skilling up. Just a thought from someone that works with data management quite a lot :)
As a statistician, I would say OP has a point. Selection bias does not get less relevant if you increase the sample size. That is only the case for variability
@@mistajohnny Thank you, that's a fair point. Would be interesting to measure the selection bias in this case to see how significant it is. Maybe by asking people how many times they died before reaching 60 and which class they have played the most.
Yup this all makes sense to me tbh. I would have almost expected Warrior and Warlock to be switched, but Warrior at least can be good if you're lucky enough to pick up good armour drops. Warrior is super dependent on gear, which means if you don't get lucky, it's hard, but if you do get lucky with gear, it gets better.
I feel like you shouldn’t include any stats for people below level 15 or so, since people are much more willing to take big risks during the early levels, because there is a smaller time investment to lose if they die. Personally I wouldn’t really make an effort until I hit level 20. Im curious what the stats look like if you only included characters that survive the purgatory
I kinda don't think these numbers reflect difficulty at all tbh, I think overconfidence in HC is the biggest killer and the easier classes like warlock and hunter inspire massive overconfidence.
The problem with HC is that you can't play based on luck, because if it ever runs out you die. You need to play safe and methodically, but not many people do that.
The biggest issue with rogue is that stealth is a double edge sword in that even skilled players can accidentally get into a lot of trouble trying to sneak by things
this is dumb warlock is for sure NOT the hardest class its at least top 3 on best classes for hc. there is prolly alot of noobs/idiots who google like "easy class for hc" so they play warlock and die. you can literally put ur pet on "defensive" mode and just wand mobs to death while the void auto tanks for you ... you can petsack once, insta summon another one and petsack again use a healthstone and a healpot on two different cooldowns thats a 2k + 2k shield (and you cant be interrupted so u can aoefear/fear ...) healthstone 1500 life / spellstone 1200 shield vs magic a priest shield, shields for 1k and costs 500 mana and you can only use ONE every 15 sec. you can just use movespeed potion or nifty stopwatch, pop your shield and run away from almost anything in the game and even if the mob/mobs somehow break your first shield while you run away (daze immune) you just pop healthstone and your scnd shield. hell you can even use swiftpot first and than use the stopwatch with the scnd shield. idk how you would ever die as a warlock.
Mage always felt like the only class that was "complete" in Classic WoW. Other classes like Shaman and Paladin didn't have spammable melee abilities or Warlock pets couldn't actually tank for them, but Mage had almost everything it has in retail.
Wellll it kinda depends what phase of OG classic. I mained a mage back then and prior to the class rework and itemization changes, it was pretty hamstrung
void walker is a fantastic tank pet that everyone is just using the wrong way. You tank adds with the VW while you focus down your primary target, smack a mob that you range pull so you can run away, hold a few mobs while you loot a quest item, etc. It's no different than stoneclaw totem. Invaluable, if you know how to use it
I'd say the problem with warlock is that one of their main mitigating skill is fear, which you can't control where the mob goes. If that mob runs into another one and you're close to death, you're screwed.
As many others believe I think this issue is because inexperienced locks use Voidy instead of drain tanking and using Succubus for Dark Pact with auto spells disabled and manually charming mobs when needed. Locks are very solid levelers able to take on most any quest solo
Melee classes have an advantage over spellcasters damage-scaling-wise. Melee can increase their dmg with stats, agi or str or both plus attackpower items. Casters cant, int/spirit only decreases the downtime a little. Casters get new spell ranks from trainers which keeps the dmg kinda okay (scaling) but melee can get the same just simply from quest reward weapon/gear upgrades. And if they get a 2x more dps weapon compared to the last one, its 2x dps increase. Casters cant do that even if they upgrade all equipment slot with spellpower items. For warriors the WW axe classquest doubles the lvling speed, even though the chain is "long", But casters cant double their dmg from any classquest... the rewards cant even give 10% dmg increase. And even though as the melees can just get stamina+str/agi gear for survivability and dmg increase, casters need int/spr. stam/int good too but to increase spelldmg they need frozen/shadow wrath items early on which means no stats at all, making them a glass cannon, which not ideal for HC. Later near the endgame, the spell/heal items with extra stats start to drop but they must reach that level first. Warriors and rogues are easy, its all about pulling safely and not charging into mobs. If pulling away from packs to prevent runners to pull more, its usually max 2 mob, rarely 3, which can be done with cooldowns. And with gnomes (escape artist) the nets can be handled (even though its not a guarantee they dont net/root you again). Anyway, melees being mainly weapon-dependent, and with the use of the AH will have more success compared to casters, compared to the non-official HC addon levelewrs with more limited weapon access. Casters cant get as much benefit from the AH dmg-increase wise, especially if all goes for survivability (stam/int gear). Locks don't have hamstring wingclip sprint root etc, fear is risky (it can just pull more, or feared mob can start to run to the same fleeing direction as us), only have void sacrifice (but for that void must be active). HS is ok but it generates extra healagro, so if pulled 3 or more then gl for the pet. Personally I would spex Coex (Exhaustion) for the instant slowdown when fleeing to slow down followers, and can be also useful in dungeons, no other class has such slow (mages must stop to cast blizzard and must be fully talented, maybe the shaman totem can be equal which can be casted while running as well. Or maybe hunter feign/frosttrap. I always did Coex on non-hc pvp servers and it can be viable in HC too if someone goes for the Affliction/draintanking leveling. BTW similar to skinning to get money for early bags, skinning to get money to buy vendor wand early on without waiting/depending on enchanters can be a good idea too and by the time enchanters get wands and ppl get enough money to buy them, ppl can reach the lvl 10-14 quests with wand rewards as well. Wands will be a thing mainly for alts imho.
Not surprised to see the final result. Fear just causes enemies to run into more enemies. One on one I can't think of a better class for fighting random guys, once groups are pulled its a different story. I'd imagine Demo would probably be the safest but most boring spec unless Vanilla Warlock plays completely different from TBC.
Hunter is my highest right now in HC but after watching this, I will download that add-on and go for a frost mage for leveling all the way. Right now I’m just slowly leveling a bunch of alts just to see how far I get. I have died on a few, but not at high levels. All deaths were below 10. Started over and moved one or two to regular classic. I did not get to 60 yet. I was so proud to get bear form for my Druid at level 10 without dying LOL. I knew I could get it done if I just did it right and smartly, anyway hardcore is fun, I wonder how long it’ll be around?
It makes sense when you think about it because Warlock is pretty immobile and lacks escapes once engaged. The pet is nice for leveling in most cases but when things go wrong it's hard to run, you have to hardcast fear or use a 15min cooldown. Thats not much. It's a powerful class at not dying much but lacks the tools to not die ever
I was kind of surprised paladin was number 3. It was my second most played class in Vanilla because I wanted a tanky alternative to my mage, but it was a very slow class to level. I may go paladin when official hardcore launches, but I'm thinking druid might be a great choice.
If you play as tank starting from 40, Paladin becomes one of the easiest classes to level. It is slow though, but you can easily kill 3-4 mobs simultaneously, and that means really bad things need to happen to kill you. However most people chose to play as Ret, and therefore level only slightly faster, but die a lot more often, which is kinda stupid.
@@Bastyyyyyy That's not how you do it. You start by judging seal of mana, then use righteousness, and only judge it if it runs out. Once the mob is dead heal, and you basically can pull non-stop.
@@Travybear1989 You definitely need some good music to level Paladin. Also possible to watch a movie while you do it. After all the only thing you need to do is to press 2 buttons every 30 seconds.
Warlock is a surprise but when you think about it deeper it makes some sense. They have a reputation for being unkillable afterall. But the voidwalker is definitely a trap as its nearly useless, and life drain is nowhere near as potent without spellpower gear
Hunter is actually a lot harder than it seems. When you're grinding mobs one by one in the open world it is efficient but it becomes very sketchy in caves due to the dead zone of your ranged weapon, or versus multiple enemies, because you have to juggle threat perfectly. And you have to make bandages in order to heal yourself, and you have to take the time to level your melee weapon and your defense stat because you don't natually increase those with your regular rotation. The class is fun, but not "shut brain off" by any means
Hunter is also by far the easiest class to level weapon skills with because Wing Clip is nearly free mana and it's an instant strike. They also have the pet tank to make it extremely easy. Most classes either consume limited resources (rage/energy) or have next attack abilities, or just have to auto attack (RIP Pally/Shaman). Hunter gets instant and extremely cheap, so it takes 2-3 minutes to get a weapon up from 1 skill. Also I've never seen a hunter use disengage to drop threat, I'm pretty sure most Hunters aren't even training it for some reason.
Basically those who can heal, hardly surprising and this list was easily within expectation except Shaman, though I don't have much experience with Shaman and non with vanilla Shaman. Rogues are a pretty bad choice. All their tools have hefty cooldowns and they have so little room for mistakes. It's MUCH safer to clear out a mine then to try to sneak into one. Paladin would be my 1st pick for #1. If this was WotLK, it would be Paladin 3000% but apparently Paladins were a lot weaker in vanilla.
The Shaman has two problems compared to the other healers. First problem is that their damage is way more mana intensive. As Wille said, Pally and Priest are the autoattack kings. Autoattack doesn’t cost mana. Druids can just grind in Bear/Cat where they aren’t using any mana at all. The second issue is that they have the most difficulty getting their heals to cast. Priest can shield, Pally can Bubble/BoP, Druid can warstop followed by regrowth and rejuv and then go right back into form. Shaman just sits there eating a ton of pushback and has no instants/hots.
@@ScottieScottie-uw4xs The problem is Shamans have an insane auto attack and people are not playing the class to its potential by using way too much mana on every mob. Rockbiter Weapon gives nearly as much damage as a Paladin Seal. They are equal if not superior to a Paladin in terms of offense and mana consumption, the only reason they fall behind is because Pally gets like 4 oh shit buttons and Shamans only get Ghost Wolf/Earthbind and Stoneclaw. People spam Lightning Bolt and Earth Shocks then say Shaman has bad mana, meanwhile Paladin doesn't have a ranged ability so their mana is unlimited. If Shamans were to use Flame Shock in place of Judgement and then just auto attack, they surpass Paladin in both damage and mana. Check out the mana per damage ratio of Searing Totem, shit is ridiculous Shaman also has War Stomp if we're talking racials. War Stomp/Earthbind/Ghost Wolf, War Stomp/Healing Wave, Stoneclaw for any extra adds.
i would say pala too, you have so many "OH SHIT" buttons its nearly insane, stun, heal, bubble, insta heal to 100%, heal pots, you wear plate etc etc, you need to fuck up rly bad to die as pala :p But i heard they nerfd divine shield so you cant use HS anymore? -> that was the main reason for me to go pala. lol!
Friend and i are doing ret/feral leveling combo. She's worried about caves and death as she hasn't played Vanilla ever. Nice to know that pally is that good. I'm a feral for life.
The most difficult class depends on the player and their patience and discipline. An "easier" class can be more difficult for giving over confidence and a "harder" class can be less difficult for forcing care. All that matters is surviving...grind nearly grey mobs, repeat.
Why didnt u elaborate on your questions yourself? Statistics we can read in the first second on the video ourselfs.. missed chance on a great topic. I would have been i terested to hear how to improuve the survivability of the class with the highest deathrate.
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Wille when’s the eta on official hard core servers ?
You dont need to drop enchanting anymore, since trading is allowed !!!! So enchanting could be viable again on official.
Maybe you can make a profession tierlist for official HC ?
short answer war
long answer warrior
Most of the warrior deaths are people trying to do dps as one. Then they over aggro the tank and die. Its much much safer to play a prot tank warrior in dungeons than a fury dps.
As someone who lost 2 warlocks in the mid and late game, I can say its definitely an overconfidence and complacency issue. Both times I died, I was playing relaxed because everything up to that point was ez. I could have easily avoided dying if I was paying attention. So yea the danger is feeling more powerful than you really are. Kinda fitting for that class fantasy if you think about it lol
My hunter died to overconfidence. I was steadily killing mobs 3-4 levels above me and my pet died to the 4th respawn. Everything respawned around me and I couldn't get away. No FD at that point yet.
vanilla sucks for locks i remember i was one, pet runs oom and can no longer taunt bags full of soulshards and at 60 you become a shadow bolt turret
Had the same issue on my mage... Easy as fuck. Then 1 mistake due to being overly relaxed and down I went.
yea I dont think it's a question of which is the hardest to play, it's which is this most boring to play lol
I died at low level with a couple warlocks. Out of the clothy classes they by far have the least ways to escape once mobs start actually punching you in the face.
Warlocks are also known to occasionally use a demonic rune after using life tap and teleporting themselves back to the starting zone
That may be just one warlock in particular. Shift-Q to pay respects.
@@Tom805 no many have done it already lol
only a noob
Guzuuuuuu
Erm rune is 55+ or something.. for raids.. not for leveling usually O.o
I wouldn't be surprised if the warlock numbers are so low because of people life tapping themselves to ridiculously low hp and then getting ganked by a random mob they didn't see
Life tap is trash and should never be used unless you got a healer. That's probably why Warlocks die, they use a trap spell. The HP is better spent tankning and wanding. Warlock get godmode once they unlock Dark Pact.
I tried Warlock once and it was easy as hell but I got overconfident and just juggled mobs until I died :P
Or demonic rune 😂
@@zealgaming8161life tap isn't bad, it's really good. You just have to be mindful when you use it
Yeah I mean we all know Priest is the worst hardcore cloth class. By miles. MILES.
0.07% out of 1881 shamans is literally one shaman reaching level 60, that's crazy
Nature men got it rough out here
Shaman really does have it rough in a lot of situations. There's so many enemies immune to nature or fire damage - aka, the two main damaging spell types for Shaman. And while you can self heal its all long hard casts on a limited mana bar.
With Warlocks I think its mostly overconfidence that gets people killed.
I made it to 60 on a Shaman during SoM. I ended up quitting because the lack of Horde. I was the only non-hunter at 60. I found Shaman to be a lot easier once you hit 40 and finally get burst damage.
I hit lvl 60 HC Shaman in TurtleWoW HC, wasnt very hard to be fair, second try overall, priest died to Stockade...
As long as you don't spam shocks and mostly autoattack, as well as using healing stream totem and stoneskin totem for mitigation, you use mana to refresh your health and move onto the next pack.
Forgot to mention Mages can put down a portal to a capital city before a dangerous pull or mob. If stuff goes sideways or looks bad you can take the portal.
It's only open for a minute, so it doesn't help against mobs you intend to kite.
And a long cast time
I feel this is no different to a bubble hearth and isn't really in the spirit of hardcore. It's should be a rule breaker.
You can't use portals in combat can you?
@@ytwoquake yes you cam
Some salty comments, yet they have a point. Warlock is not the hardest... it is the bane of the overconfident. You feel powerful leveling as a warlock, but you're always one bad fear/death coil/mistimed life tap away from death.
For anyone rolling Shaman: please don't use windfury, use rockbiter instead. It's decent dps and it works 100% of the time so you never get caught out by rng. If you die because windfury didn't proc that's on you (I don't know how good flametongue is on a fast weapon but I sometimes hear people mention that as well so perhaps worth a shot).
Also Stoneclaw totem won't taunt mobs off you, it generates too little threat. Use it at the start of a fight to split mobs up, if you're fighting one mob use Flame Shock and Flametongue instead of Earth shock so you generate less threat.
You typically just want to use whatever weapon enchantment has the most recent rank
From the time I remember spending in the classic shaman discord I think the best option was FT on fast weapons and RB on slow. I did a bunch of leveling as a "tanky" enhance and got the defensive talents like the extra armor and dodge and shield block. I even tanked instances up to SM. FT on a fast weapon like a dagger was great for damage but if I needed to hold more threat then id use RB. WF procs on 2 handers is a nice feeling but when you miss or it doesnt proc man does it suck
Flametongue is better.
As the fastest lvl 60 shaman on classic wow on server i Can tell you rockbiter is tier 1 then flame tounge then windfury. When you could duel wield windfury is better. But on 2 hand rockbiter is BIS in classic
I am a simple man, I hit thing with axe and windfury says do it again and it makes the happy chemicals go brrt
As a warlock main I expect that's inexperience with the class paired with an assumption that it is easy leading to overconfidence.
Yeah, same reasons why I think Hunter is as high as it is. Both are very easy if you are paying attention, but can get you into trouble easily if you don't know how to manage things, particularly your pet.
Also people tend to forget to keep their Pet on a leesh.
When a ranged mob is attacking you and your Voidwalker decides to run towards the enemy and thereby pull 3-5 extra... very easy way to die...
I am honored to be a part of that .07% making it to 60 for Shaman. May the elements guide you.
Statistically that makes you the only shaman to have hit 60. .07% of 1881
That would be the case if he wasn’t lying
@@90kalos1it depends from when the stats are taken i guess.
I levelled my sham to 56 and stopped there. addon shows run still at valid :D played ele and had a blast. you can also do nearly every elite quest as shaman with searing totem kite
@@radenkovic2856 Searing Totem + Slowing Totem + Frost Shock?
@@Stompy1984 yep.
After my first shaman died at 32 from falling down in 1k needles I started the 2nd as ele.
Got blackfang early (16,7 dps dagger) and played with flametounge, searing and flames hock a lot, cause I had some + fire spell dmg.
In sm my war friend passed me the shield from the endboss and I became the giga tank :D
And dont get me started on blasting ele mastery every 3 mins and 1shot a mob
I think you should concider that problably warlocks die earlier since they are known to be very powerful which makes it so people get overconfident. Compared to a warr where players will take everything very slowly since they know they are vunerable
that's what he said in the video tho
@@sonnyrosen7172 Yeah, I think the more interesting take from this would be that it shows us that hardcore has a very large first time WoW player population.
Fear is a fickled tool... I've seen way to many warlocks who don't know how to use recklessness to control mobs that they have feared that head to agro more mobs.
The biggest problem with levelling any class hardcore isn't a problem with the class...even warriors with their heavy weapon dependency or those early wands for clothies. No, the biggest problem is the other side of the screen. It's impatience. Take your time. Build up your defence skill. Wait for mobs to move on. Kite and use CC. Don't just charge in. Use various pulls. One of the first things I spend money on for warriors, for example, is the thrown weapon skill.
The funny thing is that mage is actually even stronger than these numbers suggest because people get ambitious and play far more recklessly than they should exactly because how strong they are and then they die when they could've easily lived.
Warlock is 100% a skill issue
every class is a skill issue. Problem is that people think always for some reason, "lol warlock needs to skill" then fail miserably. Remember how everyone was saying before tbc launch "lol dot dot 2v2 arena with warlock easy 2k rating" and almost all of those people quit arena with warlock?... yeah. 99% of the people who say warlock is easy, never actually played warlock out of shadowbolt spam in raids.
Warlock pumps in Classic.
Warlock is absolutely amazing. The issue is newbs on repeat making them and dieing. When vanilla was botted to hell it was warlocks all over lvl 20 zones farming endlessly.
@@clintongriffin2077according to stats only 0.09% make to lvl 60 that means not only new players get cucked , and saying skill issue only proves point, hell yes it's skill issue, if it wasn't there would be higher % of people succeeding...
@@Chopery You are missing a major point. Losing a lvl 40 char to getting spawned on. Is not the same to lemmings dieing on repeat at skullrock and darkstorm at lvl 11 lol.
As a Warlock, I can say that the biggest problem we have is overconfidence. I have died so many times to DoT n Run with my Void and just over pulling.
And that is as Warlock that have contrbuted I think 50 deaths to that 8.8k deaths.
Yeah I leveled my Warlock by killing 3 mobs at a time from levels 1-20 and it wasn't hard at all. People are dying because they kill 3 then the hyperspawns kick in and you have 6 mobs on you and no escape. If you play like a Warrior with a Voidwalker pet, you will never die.
I'd suggest playing another game instead of wasting 1-2 months after the mode dies.
@@lightner6924
first of all... why do you care how someone wastes their time? and second, see point one
imagine having to tell someone how they spend their time.
@@diemarihalt9490 I suggested it. They don't need to take my advice. Kinda funny how you fan cry.
@@lightner6924 There are ppl out there who simply enjoy leveling, atleast let them have fun for 1-2 months. :)
I can not imagine myself playing that mode, because of how much time you need to sink in for just 1 ranom DC/lag or an idiot in dungeon to pull a lot and you die.
Life tap is a hell of a drug
The sheer amount of warlocks that die doing their own pet quest at lvl 10 is frankly amazing
It's one of the hardest quests in the game, no matter the race, especially Orc. As Undead or Human/Gnome, you face 3 mobs. You can clear out everything else first, then pull, and kill one, then run away. But that caster quest mob will be slamming you with spells, so you'll be lucky to get out. Then, go back and kill another mob, using the same method. This leaves the final quest mob, but also mobs in the field could be respawning.
On normal realms, I usually group for Princess, then ask the person/people I'm grouping with to help me with my VW quest. Don't think I've ever died doing it. But it's edge-of-your-seat gameplay.
And don't forget the difficulty of getting your Imp, even, as Human. Again, you face 3 mobs.
@ncwordman How is it hard? Imp aggro one of the two guys at the same time you fear the other, then murder Serena and gg. I've yet to use a potion on that fight lol
@@notfred596 Good strategy. I didn't think of that. That's why it was it was hard to me. Guess you had to kill Serena quickly, as your imp would be thrashed in, what?...3 hits? 4?
Anyway, gg and lol for you, I guess.
@ncwordman no kidding, imp dies in no time it's nuts haha. I yelled at him probably 20 times yesterday because I was used to the VW. Honestly, corruption, immolate, wand, gg
Warlock was the class I chose for the HC challenge after 12 years of WoW abscense and boy has it been a trip.
Warlock and Rogue players having the least chance to get to 60 is probably because both get really strong as you level up. What i mean is that they feel so strong that players aren't scared enough of Hardcore and take more chances, resulting in hilarious death videos. Rogues getting accustomed to jumping down high places, realizing mid jump that they are at half hp or forgetting to resupply on vanishing or blinding powder. Warlocks life tapping one time too many, not seeing that mob pathing too close behind him or fearing a mob thinking that he surely wont beeline for the only pack of mob neaby .... spoiler, they will.
Shamans just aren't popular enough without the bait of globaling alliance players at 60.
Currently leveling my Rogue, at 48 right now. Definantly a class that scales incredibly well in terms of the tool-kit you get. Early game was brutal, Westfall Goretusks were a boss fight in their own right. I've been doing Elite solo quests at appropriate level/slightly higher (the earlier games ones more so due to having not much of my tool-kit). The hardest fight i've had is Lord Falconcrest in Arathi, whom I had to game from about 50% with Gouge spam into five point Kidney Shots and whittling him down. Rogues are definantly not a friendly class if you don't know what you're doing though.
Same for warrior although you don't use that leather bullshit, sadly they don't get dual wielding until 20.
I was surprised rogue was so low. I think in part it may be the idea people have that combat is far superior, when in reality after a rogue hits 30 or 31 they should almost always go into sub tree for hemo & prep along with better, faster stealth & better bleeds. I usually respec at 30 to hemo then get to 24 pt in sub with dirty deed & prep. Then go back into combat for riposte up to blade flurry & wep spec by 60. Mostly it is for the 2 sprint evasion vanish, but also the amount of money you can make pick pocketing, it just all adds up. But you do need to know when you are outmatched and to RUN asap.
I miss my rogue
I hated leveling as Rogue. You have no self heal, no cleave until blade flurry (and even then it's pretty bad for leveling),the worst armor for a melee class and simply way too long cooldowns on everything. I had to sit down and eat after every two mobs, aggroing 3 or more mobs was usually a death sentence.
@@Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhj I've rarely had to sit and eat after mobs. I mean sure really early game but i've always had a good supply of bandages (kept up to date ofc). Also, Alchemy is really slept on. Engineering is *slightly* over-rated and Alc is definantly under-rated.
when I saw this video's title first two classes that came to mind were warriors and warlocks, yeah I played both in vanilla back in the day...but with warlock I thought about thier minion that starts out as a weaker hunter pet and their resource that is famous for running out in vanilla
I leveled a prot warrior in HC classic, and honestly it was a blast. Shield slam doesn't require good gear to hit like a truck!
I don't know if Shield Slam is different in HC classic than it was in the original vanilla, but in vanilla nothing a Prot Warrior did hit harder than a limp noodle...it just had a lot of Threat on it when it did hit.
Things didn't get interesting for Prot Warriors (in a good way) until WotLK, at which point you could get some good gear and trinkets and have Shield Slam hitting like a freight train. I actually won solo duels against most of my opponents (even some Paladins, shockingly) in WotLK until about midway through the xpac, when they nerfed some of the pertinent stats. It was still miles better than anything previous.
when we started playing wow, back in the days, on a private server(2007). This one friend lvl-d a warrior to lvl 43, only killing mobs. He never done a quest or went to a trainer ... From lvl 1 to lvl 43 Dying over and over again in Tanaris, struggling to kill mobs etc... He asked us, what's the problem?! Logged his caracter, explained what happened, why he's not progressing ... That is hardcore ... xD
After he literally flew through lvl-s!
I just appreciate the time, effort and patience he put in that single Character!
Shaman is hard just because you auto so much as enhance, you're eventually just not going to proc windfury, probably a few times on the way to 60. Losing Ankh, and lock losing soulstone, doesn't help either. You also can't pick up totems yet so they just sit there, waiting to agro some adds.
I really enjoyed shaman in tbc and forward, but hearing that you cant recall totems makes me weary.
not to mention incredibly slow cast time on lightning bolt
Man that totem agro is too real. Just let me pick them up, or at least destroy them!
Windfury is bait though. Better DMG using Rockbiter
@@henrikh3089same tbc shaman was the g
One thing I don't hear many people comment on, but personally I feel is a big element of the difficulty between classes in Classic Hardcore is Martial vs Magic classes.
Spellpower isn't really a thing in Classic, especially when leveling, and things which add an INT/Spirit to spellpower conversion are also fairly rare, this means when you buy a Rank of a spell, the power it does is always going to be fairly standardized, and your stats really won't weigh into it much at all, nor will your gear. Having bonus INT is always nice, but its far from required in order to stay at pace with enemy scaling. If you have 20 or 200 int, your spell still hits the same.
Comparing this to martial classes, who will need to take risks to try and target powerful weapons, scale their weapon skill, keep spell ranks maxed, and find gear to scale up their attack power all to stay at a consistent power curve, I think that any class which is dependent on weapons is at a massive disadvantage in terms of hurdles they need to cross.
Saying all this, I don't find it surprising at all to see where different classes fall, and it also seems to fit that druids who don't need to worry about weapons also have an advantage because of it.
The one factor which does surprise me is seeing Warlocks being at the bottom, but I think thats really just down to a skill/knowledge issue over the class being bad. Their toolkit seems fantastic for the challenge is you're utilizing it correctly, but the whole fantasy of the class kind of leans into Risk vs reward, or payment for power, so it kind of tends that if you can't walk the line, its easy too lose control of the situation and make your life harder then it needs to be.
I'm still in the mindset that honestly, this whole challenge is as easy or as difficult as you make it. Nothing is stopping you from grinding neutral mobs in safe areas. Going into Dungeons, fighting elite mobs, or even mobs that are Yellow/Orange leveled, and even doing a lot of quests all just feel like taking on additional risks, and people do it because its what they assume is the correct way to play, but all of those are additional risk vectors which can lead to a death which is 100% avoidable by just taking a more boring, safe approach to the game.
Part of why warlocks are so low is because they don't get the base damage of mages. Similar to rogues and warriors, warlocks scale really well with gear, but unlike the former 2, they scale with gear that doesn't exist for most of the game. Intellect might be objectively the worst stat in the game and for warlocks especially. They should be going out of their way to find gear that has stamina instead, unless they can grab some of the rare pieces which have spell power on their path to 60. Hopefully with AH on official servers, they'll be able to grab a piece or two of shadow wrath gear as well.
@@IWubYooz Another thing is that the Warlock's toolkit is, incomparison to all other classes in Vanilla, HUGE!
Mages might have around 3-2 buttons they use while killing things (Frostbolt, Frost Nova, Blink and Drink Water mostly) while Warlocks already use 3-4 buttons for just their normal spells and does not include any Pet management, curses (apart from Agony) or any of the different Soul Stone-based spells.
IF I were to try Hardcore, I surely would go Warloc simply because... or Warrior since they are awesome to level with :P
Spellpower may not have really been a thing in VANILLA until raids...in classic that is not true at all, you will see as much if not more SP on gear than you will AP, spell vs melee crit is the same.
@@bluesteel6310 Definitely not more SP gear than Str/Agi gear. Dunno which classic you're playing.
@@IWubYooz I didn't say str/agi, the comparison there would be INT. I said AP, as in attack power, and crit. This is one of my bigger issues with Classic, the 1.12 itemization mixed with the 1.12 raid nerfs really neutered the first 2 raid tiers. Casters should have been going into MC with
I tried playing a warrior for the first time actually and wanted to try leveling as prot, for however painful and unsophisticated that might be! Unfortunately, i ended up as a statistic at exactly level 13 🙈 I ran into a barn in westfall and 3 defias fell onto me, netted me and killed me. I had such a good time though, so much so I made another :D
Warrior is very worth it in the end.
Surprised by warlock. I was one of the first on my server to hit 60 on Classic with my lock and it felt ungodly strong while leveling. I remember soloing quests way above my level and taking on elite mobs. Imp is strong as hell right out the gate and add in a wand and the lower levels are so fast. Assuming you're not straight cheeks and can survive the journey, the power jump around 30-40 is just insane.
Nobody knows you lil bro.
Warlocks SHOULD be easy and safe to level. However, the class seems to attract idiots. Many have a compulsion to lifetap until their mana bar is full, no matter what else is going on. Also there is a lvl 10 class quest for warlocks that's dangerous because you don't have a voidwalker yet. I imagine that would thin the herd. The strange thing is how the ranks keep thinning after that.
@@MS-nl5ghlil bro got offended by a warlock comment 💀💀
@@thesheriff720 lil bros meat riding 💀💀
@@MS-nl5ghSay you're bad at the game without saying it.
Warlock truly is the most difficult class of all time
especially with the demonic rune brain nerf
Try elemental shaman in arenas.
No way. It's warrior. Especially sense a voidwalker can tank and make a bubble to escape.
I have always considered this class to be one of the most interesting.
@@RandoverseI think warrior is the hardest in a vacuum but it's so popular that the amount of information on how to do it successfully is enormous. There are level by level guides and immense data on the best gear to get and when.
I’d like to see what classes dominate the endgame in hardcore
I saw a roster of people signing up for molten core a while ago and i was kinda surprised to see that it was mainly healers and far less hunters/mages than i expected.
warrior, rogue xD
@@SuacoRVI'd be careful putting too much into the small sample size, there are a shit load of hunters at 60 and a fair number of mages. But personally I think people rolling HC based on endgame are making a mistake.
Warriors, mages, rogues. Nothing changes.
I figured pally would be highest average level, with potion + 10s bubble + insta full heal + hand of freedom if you recognize a dangerous situation early and you press all of those buttons you live, just walk away, I ran into so many elites and just walked away, level 42 so far
Pally dies to dozing off between hits,death by boredom
Update us when you go agane
@@norrinradd8 Literally the truth. That's how my level 51 paladin died. It got so boring, I made a stupid mistake.
The DPS is so low that you can be overrun.
One issue for warlocks is that the blueberry quest is not easy mode for all races. If you try to do the orc one solo, you're gonna be back in valley of trials in a few moments.
As a warlock main I think a lot of warlocks starting out overuse life tap and it gets them one shot coz they life tap down to like 20% health. To any warlocks reading this, try not to life tap below about 50%, it'll save your life a lot and the extra mana, while nice, isnt worth deleting the character if playing hardcore or respawning and having to run back to your body and losing the soul shard.
The next warlock in groups that life tap down to 10% health frequently because "Pushing deeps bro!", will be left to die. No tank pickup if tanking. No healing. They are obnoxious players. Most warlocks don't life tap properly anyway. It can be snuck into rotations without even impacting things like wanding. Life Tap should never have to be done twice in a row. Sneak one in, allow some health regen, sneak in another, etc.
@@moroth9541 Heya, pally healer since vanilla classic came out here, PSA to all warlocks: Your lock's life is worth infinitely less than the tank's, therefore die at your earliest tapping convenience if it pleases you. If I can throw you a heal, I will. But tank comes first.
@@moroth9541 When I heal in classic, as a priest, I am trying to cast as few heals as possible with as much time spent in between heals as possible to conserve my mana and not get low. Why? Because in almost any pug there is a very high chance some dps moron will pull an extra pack or not cc a runner, etc and then shit hits the fan and I need all of my mana to keep the group alive. You say to cast a greater heal every 5-8 seconds, but that heal takes 3 seconds to cast and the tank might die in that time. I could do it between pulls but that's when I am counting on my regen to get me back to full and casting a heal on you resets the 5s rule. It's also a massive amount of mana for a single greater heal and it doesn't take long before I am oom. Usually I will toss a renew onto a warlock just before I stop casting but more than that and then we have to stop after every pull so I can drink. I can often run entire dungeons without drinking if I don't have to break my mana regen windows to heal a lazy or inconsiderate warlock.
That's why I find it more safe to go for Dark Pact then play Soullink :P
@@robertrouthier2603why aren't you precasting? a lot of baddies in this thread
dont forget the god awful attack range on hunter, it says 8 yards min but that crap is around 16 at best, making it completely impossible to do damage if something is close.
With warlock I think it's a coalescence of 2 problems. First is that until you get voidwalker, you are the tank and your only CC is Fear; which has a proclivity to cause that extra mob you couldn't deal with as it was to find a few more friends to hunt you down. Second is that a lot of you're leveling experience is tuned around the fact you have soulstone, eventually.
I was wondering, if your soulstone is up on you and you die, the soulstone overtake the hardcore rule, right ? Which means you have a second chance ?
It would make sense, but with hardcore rules I wouldnt know !
@@romainporcher2565 warlock soulstone and shaman reincarnation is banned on Hardcore addon, and will be banned in official hardcore servers.
@@BjornHegstad isnt that a bit harsh? thats like banning bubble on paladin
@@ppsarrakis Greetings from two months later. They banned Bubble+Hearth.
Personally, I think they should give Soulstone and Shaman Reincarnation a new and different functionality to make up for what has been lost.
They could make Soulstone absorb a hit that would have killed you, drop all threat, and then you become invulnerable for 8 seconds after it's consumed, but you're unable to attack and use spells and abilities for the duration.
Shaman Reincarnation could be made so that you can shift into the Ghost world, becoming a Ghost for 8 seconds, dropping combat, and being invisible to anyone alive and unable to attack or use abilities for the duration.
The Shaman version has a 1 hour cooldown like Reincarnation, as opposed to Soulstone's 30 minute cooldown. It also requires active use, rather than passive activation, thus the Shaman skill should be slightly more powerful.
I think that's fair.
Warlock/Hunter deaths are definitely skill issues. They’re so strong if you understand how to pull and have strong self awareness
hunter pets can also when order to attack at seemingly random path really questionable.
Would be interesting to see if the average level before death is calculated using the mean or median. I want to see how much more lower level deaths squew the data lower.
I haven’t done more research on this addon or its data, but I feel like overall class popularity is very important in this picture. I imagine that the rogue and warlock are far more popular than the paladin, which causes lower knowledge people to be playing these characters. I feel that if you’re rolling paladin, you’re more likely a specialist or higher knowledge than a random playing warlock. I say that because I would not play paladin, and I’m a random that goes and dies on warlock and rogue.
I played several classes, died in the 20's, the Priest and Druid felt the best to me. I'm a Hunter/Warlock/Monk main over the retail years, but i think the pet can be a bit of a liability in HC and it leads to over-confidence.
Warrior was easiest for me, go fury and your damage is surreal and you have plate armor so you shrug off blows like nothing. Add in Herb/Alch and fishing/cooking and you are basically an elite mob yourself and as long as you have swiftness potions you'll get away from any situation.
The Warlock!? I was not expecting that at all! I decided not to go Warlock because I knew I could cruise to level 60 on it. Tailoring, fishing, skinning and you're set.
For a new player, warlock early game is basically just death over and over. Just one of those weird classes where its super hard early game for a noob but one of the easiest (if not the easiest) 1-60 for any experienced player.
13:56 Is the start for warrior if anyone was looking for it
I as someone who leveled a warlock, after lvling a warrior in vanilla, WTF. Lvling a warlock was so easy compared to a warrior. Yeah you can get cocky once you get fear and try to juggle too many mobs, but if you just pull like any other class it's a breeze.
When I started WoW in 2005, I intended to choose a hunter purely because I had always played a ranger type in various RPGs. When I saw that humans couldn't be rangers, I chose Warrior because I thought it would be a simple, straightforward class.
If I'd chosen a hunter (or any other class, for than matter) first and then attempted a warrior later...my warrior would NEVER have made it past level 20.
Coming from ascension, i loved the idea of Drain Life hitting everything in a cone in front of me making me unkillable. I forgot one day on hardcore.... learned that lesson very quickly
What's funny about warlock is I played it on launch in 2019 and felt like I could almost never die lol. Was one of the most fun leveling experiences I had next to warrior. I remember not even buying food or water until later levels. Leveling fun wise id say it's near warrior, endgame obviously diff lol.
The real problem with locks is that they pull an INSANE i repeat I N S A N E amount of threat, so their pets pretty much become pointless by the time the fight goes over 5 seconds. So inexperience locks go "oh wow, i can use my void to tank, i just need to spam casts and that's it, ez class" but that could not be furthest from the truth.
I will never understand why people stick to WF and 2h weapon with shaman while leveling. Yeah WF crits look juicy but most of the time you just stand and auto waiting for this lucky hit which has no sense cause usually they take like half of the mob hp and you get the proc.... when they are 25%. So most of the proc is often wasted.
What you do is use fast 1h with shield and use flametongue/rockbiter. You have steady and very good dps (you are not that much behind WF) and also good defensive with shield. Overally its more XP/h with fast 1h + shield than 2h +WF because yes, you have a little less DPS, but you spend less time eating/drinking in between.
I don't know about now or what iterations of the game they use for Classic, but in the majority of vanilla, Windfury could proc off itself quite reliably, had no internal cooldown, and was more likely to proc the slower your weapon speed. So you had these shamans "one-shotting" clothies in BGs with twohanders and mowing through mobs quite quickly in PvE because WF would give them insane amounts of additional attacks. It was almost like a mini "Reckoning Bomb".
That's the only reason I can think for the draw, other than seeing big yellow numbers.
@@valecrassus7835 The change was introduced in 1.4 so I wouldn't majority. Also, the proc chance was always 20% and there was no such thing like "wf proccing from itself". The issue was that WF was causing weapon swing timer to reset, so another white hit right away after WF proc which could proc WF again.
Fun for one-shot montages, totally garbage otherwise.
And classic is on the last patch of an expansion so with nerfed WF.
I've played Locks for years, currently levelling one in classic and you have to be really careful because you have not got any decent escape tools, fear is a double edged sword and if you lose your pet in a bad situation you better have your escape route planned a HS and health pot all ready. A wand again can be a life saver early on. At 15 and not dead yet, problem is the class quests are far ranging and numerous in deadly areas :)
Did you survive???
@@jessejamez707 No, a warrior pulled a load of mobs onto me, was fuming with the idiot, do not know if he was wanting to take me with him or if it was a genuine accident.
Warlock surprised me. It was what I was planning on rolling. I assume dots not being direct damage is also a reason to why it isn't ideal.
probably is just overconfidence
This is the real answer. You dot something up, decide you won't kill it in time, try to run, and extend the leash all the to the starter zone.
@@ignacioperez5479 Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer....
Very interesting data! Im about to start on HC myself and watching this got me thinking before rolling a character.
I can see why rogue is down there very appealing dps role but not for the inexperienced players (not in HC at least) and so i can see many pushing the class to their limits and failing :D
Also playing a pet class in HC seems rough if you dont control them properly with macros etc
Yep, first macro I made (at 10) was /petpassive and /petattack /petdefensive . This will make my pet return / attack.
Finally some validation as a hunter player, the number of people yelling "easy mode" "noob class" etc. is always so obnoxious. Yes, I could pick something harder, but I clearly have a few picks for something easier as well. I think the more important point too, is that the differences in data are not so big that any one class is "free" and people should just be allowed to play what's fun and what they are best at.
Priest is OP. I say this as a priest main for many years. Only gets better too
If you level a hardcore shaman you should be going Resto for reduced healing pushback and Nature's Swiftness before branching into Enhance. You literally do not need the slight extra damage early on using a staff and 1h/shield swap hotkey; it's a massive waste compared to the survivability of an instant max heal and 75% less heal pushback including improved cast time.
Intro & sponsor: 0:00
In order of strongest to weakest:
Mage - 2:57
Priest - 4:45
Pally - 6:07
Druid - 7:28
Hunter - 8:50
Rogue - 10:50
Shaman - 11:55
Warrior - 13:55
Warlock - 15:31
Outro - 17:21
Have gotten a hardcore Warlock to 60 myself i Can see why the average player with No experience wouldnt handle it. Over lifetapping and relying to much on pet and not Training defense stats are just few things
The only thing your stats prove is that skill trumps game imbalances.
Would you do one more video about deathlog’s heat map zones and mobs?
As always, a pleasure to listen to your insights on this one :)
Pointless, with all the cringey forced streamer content deaths
I can't help but think that the warlock placement is based on fear rng pathing to a large degree as it's often the go to when 1 too many mobs are pulled
I'm honestly surprised about Warlock. Apparently I've played warlock a lot and I can't imagine what difficulties a beginner might face.
Voidwalker is really a terrible tank in vanilla. But his shield can save more than once. Before lvl 40, it makes sense to invest talents in demonology to be able to summon a demon in 0.5 seconds to get the shield.
The only reasonable explanation, other than the stats being wrong which I will assume is not the case, is that hardcore has a huge first time WoW player population which is causing warlocks to be farmed
@@bluesteel6310 Probable a lot of Orc Warlocks that die in Skull Rock while being level 10 while doing their Voidwalker Pet Quest and thereby lowering the average Death level...
I don't understand how a pet class with life draining abilities is the hardest class
Do these stats include/exclude duos and trios though? I would imagine there are more priest x warrior duos, and there are more warlocks soloing. This could definitely affect the stats.
I doubt they have that. And the easiest way to get to 60 on the HC server is to play with a group of 5 friends.
Warlocks are almost certainly not the hardest class to level. Probably up with one of the easiest (if you have a general idea of how to use the class). There's probably just a lot of bad/otherwise inexperienced people picking the class up knowing it's easy and dying due to carelessness or lack of experience. Not because the class is weak to level with. It's a fucking Warlock rofl. Judging what is easiest/hardest to level based on how many people have died playing something is pretty useless imo. You have to evaluate classes strengths/weaknesses/tools respective to something like a hardcore challenge. Doing that put warlocks way up around the top of best classes. But all the tools in the world won't help someone who's clueless or careless.
as a warlock player myself, I had to go again only 1 time
it was so weird, my defense skill was capped, I was in westfall against gnolls, 2 in specific, the 2 of them aggroed onto me and my voidwalker couldnt taunt them off, and even though I had potion, health cookie, and defense was raised, I just couldnt run away, and it was so fast too, this class is bait, its not easy :(
I used to dot them up and use a wand in early levelling. Keeps your man high and your threat low, it’s surprisingly underrated just using a wand
@@BobbyFlay14 yeah later I learned that you can just corruption and agony any mob and have the voidwalker attack it, if you dont use immolate, the voidwalker will retain aggro and solo it, and you can wand to speed up the process
@@BobbyFlay14 That is a solid strategy and it works as that’s what I do though you shouldn’t always do this as you occasionally want to level up your defensive skills a little bit so you’re less likely to get critically hit.
@@SillyGirlKisser74 It's just stupid though that the Voidwalker's Agro skill costs more and more mana the higher level it gets... Warlock Pet should also have worked with CD-based abilites without any Mana attached to it.
I’ve been a Warlock main pretty much since original vanilla. I think this is the “skill” of a lock, playing around VW level and knowing what dots you can and can’t use.
With next rank taunt, you can probs immo for a level or two then it’s back down to CoA/Corr until it learns another taunt rank
Died on my Paladin earlier than Warrior, due to hyper spawns in a cave that my Warrior would have avoided.
Just goes to show that overconfidence is one of the biggest factors in HC. I thought I could survive anything on the Paladin.
same lol
Of the five classes I've levelled to 60 (in Vanilla/Classic, not HC), the one I distinctly remember suffering the most with, especially early game, is hunter. I was quite shocked and surprised by this, due to their beginner-friendly/EZ-mode reputation you aptly covered. And you hit the nail on the head. Besides your pet, early level, you really don't have many survivability tools to fall back on. It's mainly that you get taken by surprise that you're left so vulnerable, particularly once you're not in control of your pet as main aggro gameplay anymore. You covered this point very well, so I wanted to echo your thoughts on this. Cheers.
If this is vanilla Wow do they still have that not getting their pet till level 10? Or are they able to have a pet from the beginning just not control it? I remember when leveling a hunter that was the worst until you got the pet.
@@lilrisdley Indeed, in Vanilla, you don’t get your pet till lvl 10, which does indeed also make it harder…!
I have to say, this is the complete opposite of my experience.
Leveled a Warrior first in WoW (started Jun 2005), then a hunter about 6 or 8 months later.
Hunters were an absolute breeze by comparison, in every aspect of the game. I realized as I was approaching level 30 that I hadn't died on my hunter even once. Once you got a pet, the level grind was absolute easy mode. PvP was *far* more enjoyable.
I want to see how these numbers are different on official servers.
In non hardcore my guild in classic had a running joke that elf has the best racial for leveling a warrior - wisp spirit
Also, I hate when feign death crits and you get that release spirit button
I think warlocks would do a lot better if the log was from the release spirit button not the actual death, so that you could keep going if you had a soul stone or a party member to rez you.
Yes, but if that happened Warlocks would be unkillable. And you would be basically forced to afk when Soulstone is on CD
Xaryu, a mage-main (former R1, multi-Glad mage AFAIK), fairly easily got his HC mage to lvl60, but he has yet to repeat the feat of completing the HC challenge on any other class (I think), so that--the mage class being statistically easiest--makes sense
He's faking his deaths for views. Look it up
@@Weavelolbro this is the most meme bs conspiracy of all time, I can't believe so many of you take that shit seriously lmao
@@Weavelol source? alexensual?? the entire point was that he dies in dumb ways. look at any hc players deaths and 99% of them die in really stupid ways.
I mean it’s also been his main for his whole life
He’s not dying for views, but you’d be crazy to think he’s not intentionally taking risks to see what you’re able to accomplish with different classes. If you’re implying that the challenge is harder than hitting rank 1 with a mage, I highly encourage you to reconsider the thought. I have to assume you are because you have to mention his personal accolades. I’ve done the challenge on warrior, hunter, and shaman. Of the three, hunter was by far the easiest, slap on cheetah and you’re just perpetually invincible by kiting. But all 3 classes have the same issue, which is. Y the time you’re in your 40s your leveling speed slows down dramatically and the risk of death isn’t cause the world is challenging, you just get bored. Xar, and anyone whose done the challenge and don’t really have to prove themselves to anyone, knows this and is just having a good time doing what he thinks is fun while farming thousands of views and dollars off people. Either people that really think he just can’t do it, or by people being entertained by his streamer personality and trying out the various class specific cheeses you can do to solo difficult quests/ playing with viewers who struggle to get past the teens/20s and need dungeons.
There’s no conspiracy, it’s just having a good time lol. I drowned my second hunter in stormwind in his 40s the day before the PTR with an audience. People freak out, but at the end of the day none of it matters besides just doing what’s fun.
The reason why so many player die so easily, is because they are often not willing to do what is required to stay alive.
By that I mean use EVERY single advantage the game can give you. Make macros, use scrolls, use potions, get buffs. In classic all buffs stacked wonderfully. The best players take great advantage of this.
Priest has a massive hit boost early on. Resulting in smooth sailing fast. Yes, can be a bit boring, but the dmg is actually quite good, especially early on with the wand.
Then you realize your wand is being used to level 40 hits harder than your poor spells until you can go into shadwform, but if you're not upgrading your wand you'll have a huge deadzone of poor damage.
The flaw of this data is that people who are bad are more likely to pick the safer classes, Paladin is obviously very safe but only played by Paladin mains usually because it is boring so obviously it remains high, Hunter is ridiculously good for Hardcore but is picked up by many people BECAUSE it is good, same with Warlock, the people who are bad at the game are more likely to pick up classes that are better and drag down the overall score.
I doubt that tbh. In statistics such biases are usually watered out the bigger the sample size is (numbers of peoplee playing). Each quest in the open world is a potential chance of dying. So if you are that bad then you likely won't reach 60 no matter what class you play...or you are learning as you go as most people do, and thus skilling up. Just a thought from someone that works with data management quite a lot :)
As a statistician, I would say OP has a point. Selection bias does not get less relevant if you increase the sample size. That is only the case for variability
@@mistajohnny Thank you, that's a fair point. Would be interesting to measure the selection bias in this case to see how significant it is. Maybe by asking people how many times they died before reaching 60 and which class they have played the most.
Yup this all makes sense to me tbh. I would have almost expected Warrior and Warlock to be switched, but Warrior at least can be good if you're lucky enough to pick up good armour drops. Warrior is super dependent on gear, which means if you don't get lucky, it's hard, but if you do get lucky with gear, it gets better.
Your videos are always so good that I’m left a bit sad when they end.
I feel like you shouldn’t include any stats for people below level 15 or so, since people are much more willing to take big risks during the early levels, because there is a smaller time investment to lose if they die. Personally I wouldn’t really make an effort until I hit level 20. Im curious what the stats look like if you only included characters that survive the purgatory
I kinda don't think these numbers reflect difficulty at all tbh, I think overconfidence in HC is the biggest killer and the easier classes like warlock and hunter inspire massive overconfidence.
The problem with HC is that you can't play based on luck, because if it ever runs out you die. You need to play safe and methodically, but not many people do that.
The biggest issue with rogue is that stealth is a double edge sword in that even skilled players can accidentally get into a lot of trouble trying to sneak by things
Playing shaman is not hardcore in reverse. 10-20 is still the major danger zone for shaman as it is with most classes.
this is dumb warlock is for sure NOT the hardest class its at least top 3 on best classes for hc.
there is prolly alot of noobs/idiots who google like "easy class for hc" so they play warlock and die.
you can literally put ur pet on "defensive" mode and just wand mobs to death while the void auto tanks for you ...
you can petsack once, insta summon another one and petsack again use a healthstone and a healpot on two different cooldowns
thats a 2k + 2k shield (and you cant be interrupted so u can aoefear/fear ...) healthstone 1500 life / spellstone 1200 shield vs magic
a priest shield, shields for 1k and costs 500 mana and you can only use ONE every 15 sec.
you can just use movespeed potion or nifty stopwatch, pop your shield and run away from almost anything in the game and even if the mob/mobs somehow break your first shield while you run away (daze immune) you just pop healthstone and your scnd shield. hell you can even use swiftpot first and than use the stopwatch with the scnd shield. idk how you would ever die as a warlock.
Mage always felt like the only class that was "complete" in Classic WoW. Other classes like Shaman and Paladin didn't have spammable melee abilities or Warlock pets couldn't actually tank for them, but Mage had almost everything it has in retail.
Rogue too. Even by retail standards, classic rogue is overloaded with utility and damage.
We can thank afrasiabi for butchering every hybrid class
Wellll it kinda depends what phase of OG classic. I mained a mage back then and prior to the class rework and itemization changes, it was pretty hamstrung
void walker is a fantastic tank pet that everyone is just using the wrong way. You tank adds with the VW while you focus down your primary target, smack a mob that you range pull so you can run away, hold a few mobs while you loot a quest item, etc.
It's no different than stoneclaw totem. Invaluable, if you know how to use it
@@Direbeetus stoneclaw totem very much sucks
I'd say the problem with warlock is that one of their main mitigating skill is fear, which you can't control where the mob goes. If that mob runs into another one and you're close to death, you're screwed.
As many others believe I think this issue is because inexperienced locks use Voidy instead of drain tanking and using Succubus for Dark Pact with auto spells disabled and manually charming mobs when needed. Locks are very solid levelers able to take on most any quest solo
More than 50% if warlocks die never getting voidwalker or health stone. I think it’s similar for Hunter. They are noob bait.
Was a r14 priest and hunter.. raided both. Died on hunter 4 times.. pure over confidence :( easy is often hard my guy
@@rambler517 that’s totally fair too. I feel you can get complacent and also bold too often. Them boars have limits lol.
Melee classes have an advantage over spellcasters damage-scaling-wise. Melee can increase their dmg with stats, agi or str or both plus attackpower items. Casters cant, int/spirit only decreases the downtime a little. Casters get new spell ranks from trainers which keeps the dmg kinda okay (scaling) but melee can get the same just simply from quest reward weapon/gear upgrades. And if they get a 2x more dps weapon compared to the last one, its 2x dps increase. Casters cant do that even if they upgrade all equipment slot with spellpower items. For warriors the WW axe classquest doubles the lvling speed, even though the chain is "long", But casters cant double their dmg from any classquest... the rewards cant even give 10% dmg increase. And even though as the melees can just get stamina+str/agi gear for survivability and dmg increase, casters need int/spr. stam/int good too but to increase spelldmg they need frozen/shadow wrath items early on which means no stats at all, making them a glass cannon, which not ideal for HC. Later near the endgame, the spell/heal items with extra stats start to drop but they must reach that level first. Warriors and rogues are easy, its all about pulling safely and not charging into mobs. If pulling away from packs to prevent runners to pull more, its usually max 2 mob, rarely 3, which can be done with cooldowns. And with gnomes (escape artist) the nets can be handled (even though its not a guarantee they dont net/root you again).
Anyway, melees being mainly weapon-dependent, and with the use of the AH will have more success compared to casters, compared to the non-official HC addon levelewrs with more limited weapon access. Casters cant get as much benefit from the AH dmg-increase wise, especially if all goes for survivability (stam/int gear).
Locks don't have hamstring wingclip sprint root etc, fear is risky (it can just pull more, or feared mob can start to run to the same fleeing direction as us), only have void sacrifice (but for that void must be active). HS is ok but it generates extra healagro, so if pulled 3 or more then gl for the pet. Personally I would spex Coex (Exhaustion) for the instant slowdown when fleeing to slow down followers, and can be also useful in dungeons, no other class has such slow (mages must stop to cast blizzard and must be fully talented, maybe the shaman totem can be equal which can be casted while running as well. Or maybe hunter feign/frosttrap. I always did Coex on non-hc pvp servers and it can be viable in HC too if someone goes for the Affliction/draintanking leveling.
BTW similar to skinning to get money for early bags, skinning to get money to buy vendor wand early on without waiting/depending on enchanters can be a good idea too and by the time enchanters get wands and ppl get enough money to buy them, ppl can reach the lvl 10-14 quests with wand rewards as well. Wands will be a thing mainly for alts imho.
Not surprised to see the final result. Fear just causes enemies to run into more enemies. One on one I can't think of a better class for fighting random guys, once groups are pulled its a different story. I'd imagine Demo would probably be the safest but most boring spec unless Vanilla Warlock plays completely different from TBC.
Hunter is my highest right now in HC but after watching this, I will download that add-on and go for a frost mage for leveling all the way. Right now I’m just slowly leveling a bunch of alts just to see how far I get. I have died on a few, but not at high levels. All deaths were below 10. Started over and moved one or two to regular classic. I did not get to 60 yet. I was so proud to get bear form for my Druid at level 10 without dying LOL. I knew I could get it done if I just did it right and smartly, anyway hardcore is fun, I wonder how long it’ll be around?
👏 each
👏 class
👏 has
👏 its
👏 strengths
👏 and
👏 weaknesses
👏 and
👏 every
👏player
👏 is
👏 different
Warriors
It makes sense when you think about it because Warlock is pretty immobile and lacks escapes once engaged. The pet is nice for leveling in most cases but when things go wrong it's hard to run, you have to hardcast fear or use a 15min cooldown. Thats not much. It's a powerful class at not dying much but lacks the tools to not die ever
Kite lock build and youre pretty much indestructible by lvl 26+ and before that dying is so hard you almost gotta do it intentionally
Void Sacrifice is pretty OP though. Can even do it multiple times in a row if you can pull off a resummon.
I was kind of surprised paladin was number 3. It was my second most played class in Vanilla because I wanted a tanky alternative to my mage, but it was a very slow class to level. I may go paladin when official hardcore launches, but I'm thinking druid might be a great choice.
If you play as tank starting from 40, Paladin becomes one of the easiest classes to level. It is slow though, but you can easily kill 3-4 mobs simultaneously, and that means really bad things need to happen to kill you.
However most people chose to play as Ret, and therefore level only slightly faster, but die a lot more often, which is kinda stupid.
@@TheTwober But its incredible boring as tank ^^, especially you are oom after 4 mobs and need to reg after every pull basically.
@@Bastyyyyyy That's not how you do it. You start by judging seal of mana, then use righteousness, and only judge it if it runs out. Once the mob is dead heal, and you basically can pull non-stop.
Paladin is so boring though...
@@Travybear1989 You definitely need some good music to level Paladin. Also possible to watch a movie while you do it. After all the only thing you need to do is to press 2 buttons every 30 seconds.
Warlock is a surprise but when you think about it deeper it makes some sense. They have a reputation for being unkillable afterall. But the voidwalker is definitely a trap as its nearly useless, and life drain is nowhere near as potent without spellpower gear
Hunter is actually a lot harder than it seems. When you're grinding mobs one by one in the open world it is efficient but it becomes very sketchy in caves due to the dead zone of your ranged weapon, or versus multiple enemies, because you have to juggle threat perfectly. And you have to make bandages in order to heal yourself, and you have to take the time to level your melee weapon and your defense stat because you don't natually increase those with your regular rotation. The class is fun, but not "shut brain off" by any means
Hunter is also by far the easiest class to level weapon skills with because Wing Clip is nearly free mana and it's an instant strike. They also have the pet tank to make it extremely easy. Most classes either consume limited resources (rage/energy) or have next attack abilities, or just have to auto attack (RIP Pally/Shaman). Hunter gets instant and extremely cheap, so it takes 2-3 minutes to get a weapon up from 1 skill.
Also I've never seen a hunter use disengage to drop threat, I'm pretty sure most Hunters aren't even training it for some reason.
pure copium
Hunters aren't hrd at all, did a BM hunter and hit 60 in three weeks, first try. Warrior took 6 tried by comparison.
Here’s the thing - new player friendly means more new players means more new player mistakes. Just a thought
Basically those who can heal, hardly surprising and this list was easily within expectation except Shaman, though I don't have much experience with Shaman and non with vanilla Shaman.
Rogues are a pretty bad choice. All their tools have hefty cooldowns and they have so little room for mistakes. It's MUCH safer to clear out a mine then to try to sneak into one.
Paladin would be my 1st pick for #1. If this was WotLK, it would be Paladin 3000% but apparently Paladins were a lot weaker in vanilla.
Divine Storm
The Shaman has two problems compared to the other healers.
First problem is that their damage is way more mana intensive. As Wille said, Pally and Priest are the autoattack kings. Autoattack doesn’t cost mana. Druids can just grind in Bear/Cat where they aren’t using any mana at all.
The second issue is that they have the most difficulty getting their heals to cast. Priest can shield, Pally can Bubble/BoP, Druid can warstop followed by regrowth and rejuv and then go right back into form. Shaman just sits there eating a ton of pushback and has no instants/hots.
@@ScottieScottie-uw4xs The problem is Shamans have an insane auto attack and people are not playing the class to its potential by using way too much mana on every mob. Rockbiter Weapon gives nearly as much damage as a Paladin Seal. They are equal if not superior to a Paladin in terms of offense and mana consumption, the only reason they fall behind is because Pally gets like 4 oh shit buttons and Shamans only get Ghost Wolf/Earthbind and Stoneclaw.
People spam Lightning Bolt and Earth Shocks then say Shaman has bad mana, meanwhile Paladin doesn't have a ranged ability so their mana is unlimited. If Shamans were to use Flame Shock in place of Judgement and then just auto attack, they surpass Paladin in both damage and mana. Check out the mana per damage ratio of Searing Totem, shit is ridiculous
Shaman also has War Stomp if we're talking racials. War Stomp/Earthbind/Ghost Wolf, War Stomp/Healing Wave, Stoneclaw for any extra adds.
i would say pala too, you have so many "OH SHIT" buttons its nearly insane, stun, heal, bubble, insta heal to 100%, heal pots, you wear plate etc etc, you need to fuck up rly bad to die as pala :p
But i heard they nerfd divine shield so you cant use HS anymore? -> that was the main reason for me to go pala. lol!
I'm gonna guess it's Paladin.
1-60 auto attacking is what Hell must be like
if you want a real challenge play holy priest while leveling without a wand
So basically a resto druid
Play a hunter without a pet
@@Ceece20 i think without a range weapon is harder
Doing dumb shit isn’t a challenge 😅
play warrior without a weapon
So what is the hardest class to grt to 60 in HC? Everyone keeps saying its not warlock but dont offer and alt to which class it is?
Lock also has a lot more going on than the other casters
They can be very powerful, but you better know how to play the piano if you want to get them to 60. ;)
Yes, they have a lot more deaths than them.
Friend and i are doing ret/feral leveling combo. She's worried about caves and death as she hasn't played Vanilla ever. Nice to know that pally is that good. I'm a feral for life.
The most difficult class depends on the player and their patience and discipline. An "easier" class can be more difficult for giving over confidence and a "harder" class can be less difficult for forcing care.
All that matters is surviving...grind nearly grey mobs, repeat.
If you get to level 60 HC grinding nearly Grey mobs then.... well, you just don't get it lmao
Well everyone knows warrior is hard, and even if people knows it is hard and are being careful it still is one of the hardest lol.
Why didnt u elaborate on your questions yourself? Statistics we can read in the first second on the video ourselfs.. missed chance on a great topic. I would have been i terested to hear how to improuve the survivability of the class with the highest deathrate.
Who would have know warlock player says warlock is the hardest class 😂
The problem with warlock is that orc warlock go into the void minion cave for their void minion and just die
Must be skill issues, warlock is easy af
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