Thanks . I enjoy all your videos. You did bring up an interesting question: How much did the real Uboat crews use gadgets like the TDC , stadimeter, and recognition manuals? As you mentioned in video, there was a lot of targeting parameter estimation based on visual observations, and good ole plain seamanship. The tactical experience gained in WWI by the Kaiserliche Marine were no doubt put to use too. In another sim focused on WWI i.e. 1914:Shells of Fury"I have tried their simple but effective methods. In this sim you only have the basics : mark1 eyeball, aided by binoculars and periscope.
Yes, it is a very interesting topic. According to the reports by the U-boats most shots were made by estimating the targeting parameters, or by comparing the own vessels speed and course to the enemy.
Hey good video, but I have a question in deed as far I knew, this method as it was shown calculate the speed by asin and put aob in 90, and you put aob as bearing and own speed. Yours it's the historical version or its a equal valid way to avoid the calculation (I saw there disc to calculate the 2 historical methods)
Quick question about The Wolves of Steel. Is there a mode where you can just lock on to the ship and fire the torpedo using the 1, 2, 3 numbers on the easy modes or does it force you to play realistically? I'm not really good with all the realism stuff and I mostly just play SH5 for fun, and I want The Wolves of Steel more so for the physical U-Boat mods and environmental mods. I'll learn the realistic way to use torpedoes eventually lol
@@ShawnTheDriver Yes you can enable auto-TDC. Jut turn it on in the XO dialogue in the periscope. Then just lock your target, then unlock while still pointed at it and fire.
Really enjoy your videos :) , Vielen Dank, I do wish I could get silent hunter to work this well with out crashing. Lost or corrupt game files very upsetting. On an off topic , in Wolfpack you can control speed a bit more precisely, with the slower by 10 telegraph. Which is nice.
Hi, this is very good tutorial, thanks! I have a question too. How long I must wait that damages are repaired by my crew? Orange damage it mean that device is unrepairable but working? Thanks for ansewer
4:55 tvre.org says that sub captains had recognition manuals such as these (de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weyers_Flottentaschenbuch) and that they also had access to RAOBF rings would actually be linked to the stadimeter.
A couple things on rec manuals: Firstly the Weyer books contained an incredible number of ships, and it was impractical to find the exact one prior to an attack. Also, Weyer and others did not necessarily provide all the data that the rec manual in game did. More often these books were used to ID a ship after torpedoing it when it radioed its identifier (as these were listed in the books). Secondly, this data is not needed. The KTBs (war diaries) make no mention of using data from a manual. Primary methods were Ausdampfen (a bit different than described here) on the surface by getting a constant bearing and computing its speed(as shown at 3:50) , plotting (Koppelverfahren) by using eyeballed ranges and exact bearings, and simple estimation (bow wave, bearing change etc). Now, on RAOBF: The early models of the scopes did indeed have an RAOBF linked to a stadimeter. These scopes (model C/6) were not the fixed-eye one like we are familiar with. It worked like a traditional periscope, the whole thing raising up and down. The Standsehrohr (C/2), fixed-eye attack periscope that we are familiar with (sit on a saddle seat and rotate it with pedals), did not have these features. They were apparently removed in favor of better optics, and likely due to the complications associated with the installation of these. Range was simply eyeballed by how much of the scope the target filled up (horizontally), or using the reticle if a mast height were known or could be estimated. By what I have found, the C/2 was already in use by early '40, but not sure exactly when it first came into use. I do know though, that many boats still had the old model with stadi/RAOBF. So, in reality, for a wartime boat, could've gone either way. Remember too that the tactical advantage of a fixed-height scope like the C/2 far outweighs having these whiz-bang tools, since the skipper could, with his left hand on a lever, constantly keep the head of the scope right at the waterline and essentially invisible.
@JDMonster That part of it yes. But the other part, the rec manual, well, therein lies the problem right? No mast height data, sketchy length data if any, and RAOBF is just a pretty decoration (unless you use an assumed mast height for a rough estimate).
that was _really_ interesting. I'm running a SH5 playthrough series right now and am trying to learn the SH5|TWOS ways - currently trying to master RAOBF. I am coming from SH3|GWX where I could rely on precise watch officer range estimates, gps sub location, and the 3 min 15 sec rule to get perfect course/speed target info. I'm noticing that my RAOBF speed and aob estimates are sometimes way off so I am looking for other methods. A couple of questions came to mind: I suppose this method might be limited if you are engaging fast targets, as the uboats underwater speed is limited, or perhaps in that case you just need a larger lead? Also, for convoys it would be concerning to have to do 4-5 knots underwater on approach, as it might spook the escorts. Also, historically could uboats fire torpedoes when traveling quickly underwater? Is there a speed limit on periscope usage? This technique is very interesting to me because in the past I have only used fast underwater travel for evasion, and on approach I just creep in. I wonder if this could be applied on the surface at night, where you have more speed flexibility. Good to know that torpedoes have noisy performance in SH5; my TDC estimation might not be that bad after all. Thanks so much for the tutorial!
If you are trying to master the RAOBF, you can have a look at my tutorial where I explain how to use it in conjunction with the Attack disc. The Ausdampfverfahren depends on your sub being fast enough to achieve a collision course with the target. You can do that with more speed, or with a larger lead. The method works very well when doing surface runs at night. I would not advise sailing submerged at 4-5 knots if escorts are present. The danger of them hearing you is too great. I believe that the boats historically could fire their torpedoes at any speed they were able to achieve, at least I never read anything contrary to that. The game does not have a speed limit on periscope usage, but historically the periscope would start to vibrate when going above 5kn, so I just limit myself to not use it if I´m going faster than that.
So i tried this in SH3. Took me so long i crashed into target ship. Does that count as a hit? Lol seriously though i think this is something i can learn to do. Thank you!
Nice video, although I do find it hard to hear your voice, my computer does not go very loud and your in game sounds are loud or microphone is too quiet :(, but looking forward to new videos!
Ugh... that cement thick accent and germanised English, Germish, Genglish, whatever you want to call it (e.g. you focus on things in English, in German you _'concentrate'_ on them). They don't even try to pronounce the foreign language correctly, but mutilate it beyond recognition as they see fit. I always cringe when I hear that. Ear cancer risk. Just speak German, for Pete's sake, and that's it. Leave the rest to the subtitles. It would be even more authentic. And then you have such a hard time calculating the difference between 0° (also known as 360°) and 308° mentally, that you rather count the dashes on the compass band instead? Really? 52°? Really? After having laboriously counted all dashes? Are you sure? I mean, are you really, really sure? Dude, then you're not the right person to explain anything to me (or anybody else) when it comes to physics and geometry.
Oh you gave me a good laugh. Some of your feedback is valid and I will not dismiss it out of hand. I´m happy to report that my mastery of the english language keeps improving, together with that of the other 4 languages that I speak. A large number of people was very appreciative of this video, because it is very difficult to find instructions on this topic. This video is for them, and I´m very glad that I created it. You are of course welcome to make a better one. I wish you more wisdom in life, so that you don´t exhibit such arrogance and pretentiousness in the comment sections of FREE RUclips Videos.
![Silent Hunter III [GWX] - Manual Torpedo Solution and Plotting - Using the Hydrophones](/img/1.gif)
Thanks . I enjoy all your videos.
You did bring up an interesting question: How much did the real Uboat crews use gadgets like the TDC , stadimeter, and recognition manuals? As you mentioned in video, there was a lot of targeting parameter estimation based on visual observations, and good ole plain seamanship. The tactical experience gained in WWI by the Kaiserliche Marine were no doubt put to use too. In another sim focused on WWI i.e. 1914:Shells of Fury"I have tried their simple but effective methods. In this sim you only have the basics : mark1 eyeball, aided by binoculars and periscope.
Yes, it is a very interesting topic. According to the reports by the U-boats most shots were made by estimating the targeting parameters, or by comparing the own vessels speed and course to the enemy.
Pretty simple. Great job explaining everything.
Hey good video, but I have a question in deed as far I knew, this method as it was shown calculate the speed by asin and put aob in 90, and you put aob as bearing and own speed. Yours it's the historical version or its a equal valid way to avoid the calculation (I saw there disc to calculate the 2 historical methods)
The method shown is historical. Check the tvre.org link in the description
When you say the other way is to go 0 on they gyro angle are you locking the data in then turning or locking it when you have made the turn?
Quick question about The Wolves of Steel. Is there a mode where you can just lock on to the ship and fire the torpedo using the 1, 2, 3 numbers on the easy modes or does it force you to play realistically? I'm not really good with all the realism stuff and I mostly just play SH5 for fun, and I want The Wolves of Steel more so for the physical U-Boat mods and environmental mods. I'll learn the realistic way to use torpedoes eventually lol
I think it is possible to customize TWOS in that way
@@Tonci87 Thanks! I'll just download it and try it out.
@@ShawnTheDriver Yes you can enable auto-TDC. Jut turn it on in the XO dialogue in the periscope. Then just lock your target, then unlock while still pointed at it and fire.
I would go to sea with you. You make it look easy! I love this channel...
Hi Tonci. When you arrive to estimate the distance to the target in 7 km (14:00) what is your method?
Thanks, great work as usual.
Just a guess based on how far away the target looks to be.
Great tutorial as always, thank you.
Really enjoy your videos :) ,
Vielen Dank, I do wish I could get silent hunter to work this well with out crashing. Lost or corrupt game files very upsetting.
On an off topic , in Wolfpack you can control speed a bit more precisely, with the slower by 10 telegraph. Which is nice.
It wpuld be really nice if we could set the engine rpm instead of speed in SH5
Hi, this is very good tutorial, thanks! I have a question too. How long I must wait that damages are repaired by my crew? Orange damage it mean that device is unrepairable but working? Thanks for ansewer
It depends on the device. Some things can be repaired at sea, some cant
Hi. What periscope mode do you use? It looks good!
4:55 tvre.org says that sub captains had recognition manuals such as these (de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weyers_Flottentaschenbuch) and that they also had access to RAOBF rings would actually be linked to the stadimeter.
A couple things on rec manuals: Firstly the Weyer books contained an incredible number of ships, and it was impractical to find the exact one prior to an attack. Also, Weyer and others did not necessarily provide all the data that the rec manual in game did. More often these books were used to ID a ship after torpedoing it when it radioed its identifier (as these were listed in the books). Secondly, this data is not needed. The KTBs (war diaries) make no mention of using data from a manual. Primary methods were Ausdampfen (a bit different than described here) on the surface by getting a constant bearing and computing its speed(as shown at 3:50) , plotting (Koppelverfahren) by using eyeballed ranges and exact bearings, and simple estimation (bow wave, bearing change etc).
Now, on RAOBF: The early models of the scopes did indeed have an RAOBF linked to a stadimeter. These scopes (model C/6) were not the fixed-eye one like we are familiar with. It worked like a traditional periscope, the whole thing raising up and down. The Standsehrohr (C/2), fixed-eye attack periscope that we are familiar with (sit on a saddle seat and rotate it with pedals), did not have these features. They were apparently removed in favor of better optics, and likely due to the complications associated with the installation of these. Range was simply eyeballed by how much of the scope the target filled up (horizontally), or using the reticle if a mast height were known or could be estimated. By what I have found, the C/2 was already in use by early '40, but not sure exactly when it first came into use. I do know though, that many boats still had the old model with stadi/RAOBF. So, in reality, for a wartime boat, could've gone either way. Remember too that the tactical advantage of a fixed-height scope like the C/2 far outweighs having these whiz-bang tools, since the skipper could, with his left hand on a lever, constantly keep the head of the scope right at the waterline and essentially invisible.
@@m.hamacher7881 Great response, there is nothing I could add to this.
@@Tonci87 Thanks Tonci! Keep up the good work! (derstosstrupp on Subsim)
@@m.hamacher7881 "So, in reality, for a wartime boat, could've gone either way".
So, my point still stands.
@JDMonster That part of it yes. But the other part, the rec manual, well, therein lies the problem right? No mast height data, sketchy length data if any, and RAOBF is just a pretty decoration (unless you use an assumed mast height for a rough estimate).
that was _really_ interesting. I'm running a SH5 playthrough series right now and am trying to learn the SH5|TWOS ways - currently trying to master RAOBF. I am coming from SH3|GWX where I could rely on precise watch officer range estimates, gps sub location, and the 3 min 15 sec rule to get perfect course/speed target info. I'm noticing that my RAOBF speed and aob estimates are sometimes way off so I am looking for other methods. A couple of questions came to mind: I suppose this method might be limited if you are engaging fast targets, as the uboats underwater speed is limited, or perhaps in that case you just need a larger lead? Also, for convoys it would be concerning to have to do 4-5 knots underwater on approach, as it might spook the escorts. Also, historically could uboats fire torpedoes when traveling quickly underwater? Is there a speed limit on periscope usage? This technique is very interesting to me because in the past I have only used fast underwater travel for evasion, and on approach I just creep in. I wonder if this could be applied on the surface at night, where you have more speed flexibility. Good to know that torpedoes have noisy performance in SH5; my TDC estimation might not be that bad after all. Thanks so much for the tutorial!
If you are trying to master the RAOBF, you can have a look at my tutorial where I explain how to use it in conjunction with the Attack disc. The Ausdampfverfahren depends on your sub being fast enough to achieve a collision course with the target. You can do that with more speed, or with a larger lead. The method works very well when doing surface runs at night. I would not advise sailing submerged at 4-5 knots if escorts are present. The danger of them hearing you is too great. I believe that the boats historically could fire their torpedoes at any speed they were able to achieve, at least I never read anything contrary to that. The game does not have a speed limit on periscope usage, but historically the periscope would start to vibrate when going above 5kn, so I just limit myself to not use it if I´m going faster than that.
As I understand this method is good when target ship is coming towards sub. But what about when target ship is going away from sub?
Then you will not be able to stay on a collision course and the method will not work
Thanks dude. Nice tutorial.
Were can I find the in-game charts for the Ausdampfverfahren attack that I saw you pull up? Is that an addon?
Hi, they are included in the TWOS mod. A menu should appear If you press E. Within that you can select different Categories and charts
@@Tonci87 Vielen danke ! Ich habe TWOS
Great tutorials!
Thank you :)
So i tried this in SH3. Took me so long i crashed into target ship. Does that count as a hit? Lol
seriously though i think this is something i can learn to do. Thank you!
You are welcome :)
I can't install this mod, NewUIs_TDC_7_4_2_ByTheDarkWraith, is not working as much as I try.
Rather than dealing with individual mods, just get Wolves of Steel.
Thank you It has been a pleasure to watch and learn. I never used that method.
Nice video, although I do find it hard to hear your voice, my computer does not go very loud and your in game sounds are loud or microphone is too quiet :(, but looking forward to new videos!
Yeah, it was the microphone. I bought a new one, which makes it much easier to hear me in newer videos :)
how u estimate the distance?!
Just a guess based on experience. YOu don´t have to bee 100% correct with the distance estimation.
5:22 You never made a video on the aus... ausland.... aus... the other one.
Yeah, that one is still on the ToDo list
@@Tonci87 I am waiting for that tooo !!
Bravo bro !
Vielen dank.
Gern geschehen :)
Ich kehre bald mal zu SH zurück und mach mehr Videos damit
Ugh... that cement thick accent and germanised English, Germish, Genglish, whatever you want to call it (e.g. you focus on things in English, in German you _'concentrate'_ on them). They don't even try to pronounce the foreign language correctly, but mutilate it beyond recognition as they see fit. I always cringe when I hear that. Ear cancer risk. Just speak German, for Pete's sake, and that's it. Leave the rest to the subtitles. It would be even more authentic.
And then you have such a hard time calculating the difference between 0° (also known as 360°) and 308° mentally, that you rather count the dashes on the compass band instead? Really? 52°? Really? After having laboriously counted all dashes? Are you sure? I mean, are you really, really sure? Dude, then you're not the right person to explain anything to me (or anybody else) when it comes to physics and geometry.
Oh you gave me a good laugh.
Some of your feedback is valid and I will not dismiss it out of hand. I´m happy to report that my mastery of the english language keeps improving, together with that of the other 4 languages that I speak.
A large number of people was very appreciative of this video, because it is very difficult to find instructions on this topic.
This video is for them, and I´m very glad that I created it. You are of course welcome to make a better one.
I wish you more wisdom in life, so that you don´t exhibit such arrogance and pretentiousness in the comment sections of FREE RUclips Videos.
Huh? I had no problem what so ever understandling every word.