There is a lot of great discussion regarding forward grips and their legality on the Mossberg and Remington versions of this gun. Here is our interpretation of this issue. One issue with our legal system is that laws tend to be poorly written and subject to wildly varying interpretation. There are often conflicting "Definitions", contradictory phrases, etc. What set of grammar rules you choose to apply can make a big difference (Oxford comma vs not, interpretation on how and's and or's link to each other, etc.) As you have seen from some of the "Activist Judge" rulings lately, it is often possible to interpret a law any way you want to. Since we are not LEOs, ATF or lawyers, we will always take the most conservative interpretation that is possible to avoid the risk of giving advice that can get somebody deeply in trouble. I actually was able to interpret the GCA in one way that rendered this gun illegal - if I read the Definitions and exact phrasing a certain way. If you have read the laws and feel comfortable that something you wish to do is legal then you can asses the risk/reward and make an educated decision. Anything that requires an ATF Letter to clarify is at risk of the whims of the ATF, just think back to all the churn and changing of position on the "Sig brace". As the legality of this gun is a bit precarious, we are going to be careful not to modify ours in any potentially risky way. If you wish to modify yours, I would recommend speaking with a qualified firearms lawyer or the manufacturer (who likely has a team of lawyers dealing with such things).
A vertical grip is fine on this since it's over 26 inches. The only thing a VFG is not allowed on is a pistol that is under 26 inches. The only way this gun becomes an AOW is if you shorten it below 26 inches or conceal it. Also putting a stock on it would make it an SBS.
You can load the 870 just fine one handed if you are trained. I've never gotten my finger stuck in the elevator and I've been running an 870 since I was a kid.
Sam Wagner same here. I call B'S on a lot of this. Sound's like he went around watching a lot of different 870 videos and starts spouting off the "claimed" disadvantages of the 870. Apparently we have a Mossberg shill here. I've said it once and I'll say it again. If you break the ejector on the 870, you've probably shot that gun to death. I have an 870 from the mid 2000's and I've shot that thing from sunrise to sunset many many times. Never had an ejector break off.
Good review. They sell super-short magazine extensions that add one round of capacity. My hands are larger than yours and I have absolutely no problem manipulating the gun. On the lifter catching your thumb, I have no problem by pushing the rounds in so that my thumbnail will be hit by the lifter and it does not catch. I have to hold my thumb at the correct angle so that the pad of my thumb strikes the bottom lip of the magazine. It's simple to do, but doing it with a gloved hand leaves the glove caught on the lifter!
I'm fairly sure you can add a forward vertical grip. Unless I've misunderstood the rules, since it's over 26" it is perfectly legal with a forward vertical grip.
You're wrong if it's over 26 inches a VFG is fine. What is a no go is putting a VFG on a pistol that is under 26 inches, and if you put a VFG on a pistol over 26 inches it reclassifies it as a "Firearm"(Which is what this 870 is classified as). The only way this weapon will become an AOW is if you shorten it below 26 inches or conceal it.
Are you sure that vertical grip on forend will make it illegal? I have heard an opinion that because it is a firearm and over 26.3 you should be fine. Is it not the case?
State laws are definitely a concern, however the NFA is the real risk. This gun carefully skirts a bunch of "IFs" in the NFA that would categorize it and "falls through" to the default "Firearm". If you make any of the "IFs" true then it would be classified under the NFA. This one is high risk to modify so definitely do your research first.
@@HammerStriker Thanks for the response.... I live in a chicago suburb, so you get the idea. When I bought mine a few years ago, the shop owner told me you will see a lot of people adding braces.. Don't in Illinois they will F**ck you. Which I don't get because they sell this same gun in illinois with the brace already attached...Called the 870 Tac 14 Tactical.???
What if I replace the furniture with a wooden mares leg style pistol grip where it's cut just before the stock comb? This would keep it over 26" and I still wouldn't be able to shoulder it because it's a pistol grip, just differently shaped. I can't bend my wrist far enough to shoot these style grips due to an injury and such a set up would significantly help.
I would be very careful with doing any changes to the grip. Something that resembles or appears to function as a "Pistol Grip" would put you at risk of the firearm being reclassified and lose the protection of the ATF letter. I am not ATF or a LEO so I cannot definitively tell you that you can or cannot do so, but I personally would not take the risk with a gun that might be found in my possession.
Alright so I checked it out and confirmed that a Vertical grip is completely legal on this firearm since it is not "Designed to be fired with one hand". It's only illegal to put vertical grips on pistols, and this is classified as a "Firearm" not a "Pistol". Just be sure not to drop the OAL below 26 inches or add a shoulder stock(although from my understanding taking an 870 threaded pistol grip and adding an AR pistol buffer tube and stabilizing brace would be fine as long as it is still over 26 inches not including overhang from the brace).
@@jamesduprey2719 Yeah they change all the time but VFG is still fine. I believe under a new ruling since my original post if you add a folding brace it now has to be measured folded though, at one point they were measured when fully extended like stocks.
I like that the receiver is Steel over the Mossberg which is T6061 Aluminum.The Forend is better with the MLOKThe Safety is better placed on the Mossberg...But it can tear up your hand if you aren't careful. I guess I prefer the Tac 14 in this instance.The Mossberg has 1 more in capacity (Stock) But.. I have seen guys put a 2 shell extension on the Tac14.Dual extractors- have to go with the Mossberg on that one.Mossberg has the Hand Strap But the MLOK you can add a hand stop from Magpul.The Tac 14 comes with a Sig Brace from the Factory if you want one.
Great review, especially converting the receiver, that it was not drilled and tap. The talon grip, I suppose you cut it out yourself, I heard the now sell a precut version now. Subscribed!
Thank-you. Yes, I cut the grip myself from a "blank". I have seen the new pre-cut version, it looks a little choppy but it would potentially be easier to install. We did to a lot of upgrades to the Mossberg version of this gun, including the grip (which is the same on both guns). If you are curious it is here: ruclips.net/video/Yny23-zJwK8/видео.html
Now is April 2020, and laws have changed some... with that being said, can I conceal carry this in TX? I would like to have this on me while on hiking. (I know now is LTC for open carry) thank you!
We are not lawyers or LEOs so we cannot give you an absolute answer. The biggest problem with this particular item and concealed carry is that the path through the NFA that Remington and Mossberg used to make these not be a "Short Barrrel Shotgun" is worded in such a way that it could be void if you conceal carry it. What that means is you could be suddenly considered to be in violation of the NFA if carrying concealed where you would be fine otherwise. Before carrying this concealed, I would consult with a good firearms lawyer in Texas to make sure you won't step into a bad spot.
Since this one comes with the magpul forend already on it, it would be very easy to put on a vertical front grip which is legal. using the M-lok grip it would literally take less than a minute ti install.
I am pretty sure that the receiver is just a normal 870 so any stock that fits any other 870 should work. Two things to be careful of: 1) Make sure that you have the actual Stamp in your possession first (simply calling and being told it is Approved won't cover you). 2) Do not remove the Shockwave grip before getting the stamp because having a receiver without a stock and the stock in your possession - even if not assembled - can turn into "Constructive Possession of an SBS".
Shockwave is the better purchase . I checked out both before I bought. Shockwave looks better, has the hand strap on the pump handle for better grip. Holds one more in the tube, has a better safety IMHO, is drilled and tapped on top of receiver for picatinny, and does not feel more like plastic than the remington does. Mossberg also has sling stud swivels on the end of tube cap and the back of the raptor head grip. Shockwave has a much cooler name too haha. Just my opinion
Likely no. Anything that changes the overall length to shorten it or alters part of what got the ATF Letter would make it illegal. Once it is illegal, it won't matter where it is and whether or not it is on private property - mere possession of it would be illegal.
Angled foregrips (the ones that are shaped like a little ramp) are usually fine in most places that the gun itself is legal. Depending upon your jurisdiction you may encounter trouble with a Vertical Foregrip (that is at a 90 degree angle to the gun).
The GunsAmerica video, showing shooters' hands coming off of the Magpul foregrip, during rapid fire; killed my fascination with this version of this type of weapon. Both guns would be bedside gun perfection, with the knurled, metal, folding vertical grip from the Serbu Super Shorty. I just can't believe adding something that would make the gun safer; would also make the gun a prohibited item.
Check out the Mossberg version, it has a strap to help keep the shooter's hand on the gun. As far as safety vs. legality, unfortunately our legal system rarely applies logic to their decision making process. The current debate regarding suppressors, which are merely "gun mufflers", is a perfect example of this.
Hammer Striker, you are correct about the silliness of our current, federal infringements. I find the Remington product more aesthetically pleasing; but I might have to settle for the Mossberg version, for the reason you stated. My only concern with that model is that some shooters reported having their hands cut by the hardware that attaches the strap to the "corn cob" foregrip. I have a little time left to decide; since neither one of them will be legal for purchase, here in Texas, until September 1, 2017.
I know it's not a pistol but in a couple of States it's considered a pistol I live in Alabama I don't have that problem but for someone who lives in New Jersey or any other state that says it's a pistol you would have to get a pistol permit
Not without going through the appropriate forms and getting a tax stamp in your possession. You would be converting it from a "Firearm" to a "Short Barrel Shotgun" (SBS) and that would be very illegal without the forms/tax stamp.
You have to be extremely careful with any stock modifications on this gun or you may accidentally create a Short Barrel Shotgun which is regulated under the NFA. As it is delivered, it is not an NFA item but it would be very easy to violate that.
You could attach one like Mossberg did , they just screwed theirs to the plastic forend. Because this one has the M-Lock notches, it would not surprise me for some company to either make an M-Lock strap at some point. Just make sure if you use M-Lock to ensure the mounts are locked in and don't pop loose under recoil.
Hammer Striker : the older you get the thinner your skin gets and prone to being bruised easily I don’t care to walking around all bruised up lol so 20 gage it is !
@Dee Bee : nope had issues with BG check long story , let's just say they got me mixed up with someone else with the same name . But not a problem I went the private route cut out the dealers
Mark Schimmel, the devil is in the details; and unfortunately, the way Texas law was previously worded; the sale of these types of weapons was and still is, prohibited in Texas. Until the clarification becomes law, on September 1st, 2017; the sale of these weapons in Texas and to Texas, is prohibited.
nooksolo, that's interesting, to say the least. Check this out; if you haven't already...www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/06/chris-heuss/texas-hb-1819-85r/
If your losing your grip and the firearm is sliding in your hand you need to work on grip strength and firearm control. I've never had that problem nor have I ever had the problem of pinching a finger loading it.
+Jelly Bryce We actually have an upcoming comparison between the two, there are actually a few key differences that become important on this style of firearm.
Shorty454 I now see these as "fun" guns. Break this out at a social setting to test everyone's machismo lol. Also wouldn't hurt to have this tucked away somewhere in the house as a backup HD gun
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
There is a lot of great discussion regarding forward grips and their legality on the Mossberg and Remington versions of this gun. Here is our interpretation of this issue.
One issue with our legal system is that laws tend to be poorly written and subject to wildly varying interpretation. There are often conflicting "Definitions", contradictory phrases, etc. What set of grammar rules you choose to apply can make a big difference (Oxford comma vs not, interpretation on how and's and or's link to each other, etc.) As you have seen from some of the "Activist Judge" rulings lately, it is often possible to interpret a law any way you want to.
Since we are not LEOs, ATF or lawyers, we will always take the most conservative interpretation that is possible to avoid the risk of giving advice that can get somebody deeply in trouble. I actually was able to interpret the GCA in one way that rendered this gun illegal - if I read the Definitions and exact phrasing a certain way. If you have read the laws and feel comfortable that something you wish to do is legal then you can asses the risk/reward and make an educated decision.
Anything that requires an ATF Letter to clarify is at risk of the whims of the ATF, just think back to all the churn and changing of position on the "Sig brace". As the legality of this gun is a bit precarious, we are going to be careful not to modify ours in any potentially risky way. If you wish to modify yours, I would recommend speaking with a qualified firearms lawyer or the manufacturer (who likely has a team of lawyers dealing with such things).
Adding a forward grip makes it an NFA weapon.
A vertical grip is fine on this since it's over 26 inches. The only thing a VFG is not allowed on is a pistol that is under 26 inches. The only way this gun becomes an AOW is if you shorten it below 26 inches or conceal it. Also putting a stock on it would make it an SBS.
You can load the 870 just fine one handed if you are trained. I've never gotten my finger stuck in the elevator and I've been running an 870 since I was a kid.
Sam Wagner same here. I call B'S on a lot of this. Sound's like he went around watching a lot of different 870 videos and starts spouting off the "claimed" disadvantages of the 870. Apparently we have a Mossberg shill here.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. If you break the ejector on the 870, you've probably shot that gun to death. I have an 870 from the mid 2000's and I've shot that thing from sunrise to sunset many many times. Never had an ejector break off.
Yeah I hear that shit all the time, I don't know what people are doing to cause these supposed issues to happen. An 870 elevator has NEVER pinched me.
Same here. Never had any problems loading one handed. That would be stupid to require two hands to load. Go Remington!!!
Good review. They sell super-short magazine extensions that add one round of capacity. My hands are larger than yours and I have absolutely no problem manipulating the gun. On the lifter catching your thumb, I have no problem by pushing the rounds in so that my thumbnail will be hit by the lifter and it does not catch. I have to hold my thumb at the correct angle so that the pad of my thumb strikes the bottom lip of the magazine. It's simple to do, but doing it with a gloved hand leaves the glove caught on the lifter!
+RyeOnHam Thank you. A little bit of extra finger length would really help on this gun.
just picked my baby 870 up today. Ill take it to the range Friday and give her a good workout. Get my money worth.
I wish it had the thread in chocks
You can certainly have it threaded for the Rem-Chokes. Inexpensive and easy to do.
I'm fairly sure you can add a forward vertical grip. Unless I've misunderstood the rules, since it's over 26" it is perfectly legal with a forward vertical grip.
You're wrong if it's over 26 inches a VFG is fine. What is a no go is putting a VFG on a pistol that is under 26 inches, and if you put a VFG on a pistol over 26 inches it reclassifies it as a "Firearm"(Which is what this 870 is classified as). The only way this weapon will become an AOW is if you shorten it below 26 inches or conceal it.
1313556 Negative - Do some research bud. I believe you're mistaken. The vertical grip is legal on this firearm.
Yeah it definitely is legal since this is not even classified as a pistol and is over 26 inches.
You sound like you work for mossberg and don't like remington.
Are you sure that vertical grip on forend will make it illegal? I have heard an opinion that because it is a firearm and over 26.3 you should be fine. Is it not the case?
It's odd that Remington does not add the front hand strap, like the one on a Mossberg Shockwave.
Perfect Truck Gun :) Wish I could own one.
Great vid, with brilliant advice. Ty.
Thank you.
You flinched on the first shot LOL
Very excellent review! Thank you!
Thank-you.
Laser!! Excellent idea!! I'm doing that!! I just bought one and was looking for something to attach. Most lights are too big for the rail.
Does any one know if it's legal in Commifornia? I heard the loop hole makes it fall under "firearm" classification instead of "Shotgun".
Everyone you ask has a different opinion on changing grips......Check with your state laws.
State laws are definitely a concern, however the NFA is the real risk. This gun carefully skirts a bunch of "IFs" in the NFA that would categorize it and "falls through" to the default "Firearm". If you make any of the "IFs" true then it would be classified under the NFA. This one is high risk to modify so definitely do your research first.
@@HammerStriker
Thanks for the response.... I live in a chicago suburb, so you get the idea.
When I bought mine a few years ago, the shop owner told me you will see a lot of people adding braces.. Don't in Illinois they will F**ck you.
Which I don't get because they sell this same gun in illinois with the brace already attached...Called the 870 Tac 14 Tactical.???
What if I replace the furniture with a wooden mares leg style pistol grip where it's cut just before the stock comb? This would keep it over 26" and I still wouldn't be able to shoulder it because it's a pistol grip, just differently shaped. I can't bend my wrist far enough to shoot these style grips due to an injury and such a set up would significantly help.
I would be very careful with doing any changes to the grip. Something that resembles or appears to function as a "Pistol Grip" would put you at risk of the firearm being reclassified and lose the protection of the ATF letter. I am not ATF or a LEO so I cannot definitively tell you that you can or cannot do so, but I personally would not take the risk with a gun that might be found in my possession.
Alright so I checked it out and confirmed that a Vertical grip is completely legal on this firearm since it is not "Designed to be fired with one hand". It's only illegal to put vertical grips on pistols, and this is classified as a "Firearm" not a "Pistol". Just be sure not to drop the OAL below 26 inches or add a shoulder stock(although from my understanding taking an 870 threaded pistol grip and adding an AR pistol buffer tube and stabilizing brace would be fine as long as it is still over 26 inches not including overhang from the brace).
Appears the author is not familiar with laws and this weapon. Nice pictures though.
@@jamesduprey2719 Yeah they change all the time but VFG is still fine. I believe under a new ruling since my original post if you add a folding brace it now has to be measured folded though, at one point they were measured when fully extended like stocks.
I like that the receiver is Steel over the Mossberg which is T6061 Aluminum.The Forend is better with the MLOKThe Safety is better placed on the Mossberg...But it can tear up your hand if you aren't careful. I guess I prefer the Tac 14 in this instance.The Mossberg has 1 more in capacity (Stock) But.. I have seen guys put a 2 shell extension on the Tac14.Dual extractors- have to go with the Mossberg on that one.Mossberg has the Hand Strap But the MLOK you can add a hand stop from Magpul.The Tac 14 comes with a Sig Brace from the Factory if you want one.
Great review, especially converting the receiver, that it was not drilled and tap. The talon grip, I suppose you cut it out yourself, I heard the now sell a precut version now. Subscribed!
Thank-you. Yes, I cut the grip myself from a "blank". I have seen the new pre-cut version, it looks a little choppy but it would potentially be easier to install. We did to a lot of upgrades to the Mossberg version of this gun, including the grip (which is the same on both guns). If you are curious it is here: ruclips.net/video/Yny23-zJwK8/видео.html
The Mossberg 590 has dual extractors
Now is April 2020, and laws have changed some... with that being said, can I conceal carry this in TX? I would like to have this on me while on hiking. (I know now is LTC for open carry) thank you!
We are not lawyers or LEOs so we cannot give you an absolute answer. The biggest problem with this particular item and concealed carry is that the path through the NFA that Remington and Mossberg used to make these not be a "Short Barrrel Shotgun" is worded in such a way that it could be void if you conceal carry it. What that means is you could be suddenly considered to be in violation of the NFA if carrying concealed where you would be fine otherwise. Before carrying this concealed, I would consult with a good firearms lawyer in Texas to make sure you won't step into a bad spot.
The lack of a strap or any texturing to help your hand stay on that forend is disconcerting.
+Benjamin Linzy It won't surprise me for some company to start making an MLOK strap to put on it. The Mossberg version (Shockwave) does have one.
Since this one comes with the magpul forend already on it, it would be very easy to put on a vertical front grip which is legal. using the M-lok grip it would literally take less than a minute ti install.
You can put the magpull shorty pistol grip (3") right onto that great Magpull M-loc foregrip. So its an easy upgrade
I've shot plenty of guns like this, you don't need it. Hold onto the damn thing lol
It does cycle the 1 3/4" Aqulara minishells on mine.
Will the receiver accept a regular 870 stock? After Form 1 approval, of course. I’m looking to build a SBS and this would make it easy.
I am pretty sure that the receiver is just a normal 870 so any stock that fits any other 870 should work.
Two things to be careful of:
1) Make sure that you have the actual Stamp in your possession first (simply calling and being told it is Approved won't cover you).
2) Do not remove the Shockwave grip before getting the stamp because having a receiver without a stock and the stock in your possession - even if not assembled - can turn into "Constructive Possession of an SBS".
Hammer Striker Excellent point thank you.
Has anyone added the Wilson Combat tube extension?
Great gun but out of stock and what’s out there is going for 3 to 4 times what it is worth
Does anybody know if Remington makes an owners manual for this, showing take-down etc?
From everything I have found it has been the regular manual
Shockwave is the better purchase . I checked out both before I bought. Shockwave looks better, has the hand strap on the pump handle for better grip. Holds one more in the tube, has a better safety IMHO, is drilled and tapped on top of receiver for picatinny, and does not feel more like plastic than the remington does. Mossberg also has sling stud swivels on the end of tube cap and the back of the raptor head grip. Shockwave has a much cooler name too haha. Just my opinion
If the gun stays on private property, strictly for home defense, can I still add a pistol grip?
Likely no. Anything that changes the overall length to shorten it or alters part of what got the ATF Letter would make it illegal. Once it is illegal, it won't matter where it is and whether or not it is on private property - mere possession of it would be illegal.
is it illegal put an angled foregrip on this? Why?
Angled foregrips (the ones that are shaped like a little ramp) are usually fine in most places that the gun itself is legal. Depending upon your jurisdiction you may encounter trouble with a Vertical Foregrip (that is at a 90 degree angle to the gun).
The GunsAmerica video, showing shooters' hands coming off of the Magpul foregrip, during rapid fire; killed my fascination with this version of this type of weapon. Both guns would be bedside gun perfection, with the knurled, metal, folding vertical grip from the Serbu Super Shorty. I just can't believe adding something that would make the gun safer; would also make the gun a prohibited item.
Check out the Mossberg version, it has a strap to help keep the shooter's hand on the gun. As far as safety vs. legality, unfortunately our legal system rarely applies logic to their decision making process. The current debate regarding suppressors, which are merely "gun mufflers", is a perfect example of this.
Hammer Striker, you are correct about the silliness of our current, federal infringements. I find the Remington product more aesthetically pleasing; but I might have to settle for the Mossberg version, for the reason you stated. My only concern with that model is that some shooters reported having their hands cut by the hardware that attaches the strap to the "corn cob" foregrip. I have a little time left to decide; since neither one of them will be legal for purchase, here in Texas, until September 1, 2017.
I know it's not a pistol but in a couple of States it's considered a pistol I live in Alabama I don't have that problem but for someone who lives in New Jersey or any other state that says it's a pistol you would have to get a pistol permit
Hey there, just curious where can i buy the small piece of rubber grip?, you got a link?.
Thanks pal!
I got this one on Amazon - www.amazon.com/dp/B01FLQO5IU . This one is the rubber version but you can also choose the sandpaper version if you like.
can you add a stock to this?
Not without going through the appropriate forms and getting a tax stamp in your possession. You would be converting it from a "Firearm" to a "Short Barrel Shotgun" (SBS) and that would be very illegal without the forms/tax stamp.
Why not replace with a folding stock
You have to be extremely careful with any stock modifications on this gun or you may accidentally create a Short Barrel Shotgun which is regulated under the NFA. As it is delivered, it is not an NFA item but it would be very easy to violate that.
Is there anyway to put a strap on the action? That's the only thing that worries me about this one.
You could attach one like Mossberg did , they just screwed theirs to the plastic forend. Because this one has the M-Lock notches, it would not surprise me for some company to either make an M-Lock strap at some point. Just make sure if you use M-Lock to ensure the mounts are locked in and don't pop loose under recoil.
I’m getting the 20 gage version
That should be very easy to handle.
Hammer Striker : the older you get the thinner your skin gets and prone to being bruised easily I don’t care to walking around all bruised up lol so 20 gage it is !
@Dee Bee : nope had issues with BG check long story , let's just say they got me mixed up with someone else with the same name . But not a problem I went the private route cut out the dealers
@Dee Bee : got a Ruger SR9 hand gun holds 17 rounds 9MM got 4 extra mags still hunting for a Remington 870 though lol
Boom stick good =)..
The NFA is so stupid.
I used my shockwave for skeet & trap shooting worked just fine hit everything that was flying.
finally found a gun that is legal in my state and illegal in Texas lol
Garrett, thanks to our awesome Governor, Greg Abbott; they will be legal in Texas, on September 1, 2017.
Actually they are already legal. The new law just clarifies.
Mark Schimmel, the devil is in the details; and unfortunately, the way Texas law was previously worded; the sale of these types of weapons was and still is, prohibited in Texas. Until the clarification becomes law, on September 1st, 2017; the sale of these weapons in Texas and to Texas, is prohibited.
Trae UCity my gun store carriers them in san antonio .
nooksolo, that's interesting, to say the least. Check this out; if you haven't already...www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/06/chris-heuss/texas-hb-1819-85r/
If your losing your grip and the firearm is sliding in your hand you need to work on grip strength and firearm control. I've never had that problem nor have I ever had the problem of pinching a finger loading it.
My arm hurts just looking at it.
California legal???
Orrrrrr???
shockwave is more appealing to me.
+Jelly Bryce We actually have an upcoming comparison between the two, there are actually a few key differences that become important on this style of firearm.
Jelly, you might not think so after you've fired one. Without vice-grip hands, that safety tags the web of your hand every time.
Bad Design for the hand and MOE pump rail is useless. I would not waste my time buying this. My Opinion.
Shorty454 I now see these as "fun" guns. Break this out at a social setting to test everyone's machismo lol. Also wouldn't hurt to have this tucked away somewhere in the house as a backup HD gun
wow, next gun to be outlawed in California,
Not a SHOTGUN!!
Really love mine even shot skeet with it and broke 17 lol
Way to suck that recoil.
When it comes to shot guns Remington just lost the edge to Mossberg.
No thanks I stick with the Mossberg 590 shockwave. Out.