How much drum machine do you need? Perkons vs the LXR-02
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- To everyone who comments on my videos, sincere thanks. Comments are one of the best things about making videos. If I can use an Australian analogy, my brain is the giant flock of sheep and comments are the cattle dogs barking and nipping to keep me on track. Which is to say that this comparison video of Perkons vs the LXR-02 came from ideas in a comment thread. At first I hesitated since it seemed like an irrelevant and unfair comparison. But the comments reminded me that these are the decisions we face all the time? Will machine X satisfy or should I try for something bigger and better?
As soon as I bought Perkons I sold my old LXR-02 thinking it was redundant. Why would I bother with such a pipsqueak when the Great Blue-Green Master had arrived? But regret soon set in and the LXR-02 returned. Why? Well, that's really the essence of this somewhat chaotic comparison. It's not an analysis of kick and snare drum frequencies, rolloff curves, or about particular waveforms. I'm not trying for lab test answers. This is a collection of critical impressions of both machines, looking at some of the fundamental differences in how they're played and programmed. I hope will be of some use and interest to you.
0:00 The Big Five
0:41 Perkons is big
1:51 Analog vs digital
3:00 The interfaces
3:43 LFO modulation
8:00 Buttons
8:58 Mono vs stereo
11:05 Core sounds
17:01 Parameter locks
22:56 Pitchmod curse
24:09 Drones
25:07 More about knobs
26:26 Envelopes
28:51 Filter knob
32:42 Firmware
38:00 Conclusions
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Had both, sold the Perkons. It was too big and there are not enough sound tweaking options for the money. Thank you for your very informative videos!
And I see that you got the Fusion System instead - that's a beautiful machine :)
I own and love both. The Perkons sounds absolutely IMMENSE, I never heard anything (including the classics) that sounds so huge. The LXR-02 also packs a mighty punch and is so much fun to tweak sounds on and can go in territories few other drum machines can, especially when you start exploring all the freaky parameters and morph options. The LXR-02 could do with a few updates though, the software is pretty patchy in places, especially when switching between modes it seems the pad lighting sometimes gets confused what it's supposed to show. I supplement the Ericas with a Roland TR-6s for the classic x0x sounds and a Soma Pulsar-23 for more industrial and experimental sounds. I love freaking around with these machines!
Agreed, I wish the LXR would get some more firmware attention :( And another vote for the 6S ? I see quite a few people now praising it. I'm really tempted just for the CR-78 kit, but I haven't given up trying to simulate it on the LXR :D But you with Perkons and Pulsar-23 must almost be in the demolition business.
that's a damn good quatuor of drum machine here dude
@@RichardDeHove The TR-6S is cheap as chips second hand (±200/250eu is not uncommon) and comes loaded with all the classic sounds and also does samples and FM. Also fun to work with and there's now a decent PC/Mac editor too. The value for money is insane, making it a total no-brainer imo.
If u manage to emulate the cr-78 please share. Loving the LXR but its quite a nasty sucker @@RichardDeHove
Nice one 👍 Have to say what I like about both is they are both great for live tweeking and dawless fun. Like you mention I too would love a ressonance knob on all Perkons voices. Personally I combine mine with the Zen delay. That does add a lot and it feels like playing instruments more so than just pressing play on a sequence. Knobs, rec mode and easy adjustment access on Perkons and sliders and sound versatlity on LXR add to that feeling I think. For me it is not one or the other. LXR is completely new to me but pleasantly surpriced by its versatility played live. Perkons sort of demand you to dive in and tweek along. I love combining several grooveboxes. In this case more is more. To me at least 🥳🥁 Thank you for your really great uploads on these to gems 🖤🖤 Hope to see much more on both 🔥🔥 Have a great weekend 🤘
I work a lot with differently abled artists and for the most part, menus are a real obstacle and vibe killer. The four sequencer lanes of the Perkons makes this machine so accessible for folks who aren’t that techy. And the record button and knob twiddling combo nearly always always yields interesting results. We have lots of drum machines in our studio but the Perkons is a favourite as it’s really playable like an instrument should be. The second favourites in our studio are the Drum Brute Impact and the Pulsar 23. for very different reasons :)
Thanks again for your great videos!
Very interesting points. In that respect hardware with small screens might be regarded as defining an intermediate category between computers and knob-per-function hardware.
Analog rytm mk1 used is a great value right now with the recent firmware update. I like the sequencer and hands on aspect of Perkons though!
This is a very good video, i was about to buy an LXR but i bought the playstation 5 so my friends gona stop saying i have to limitate my synth / music generators, and now i'm sampling the playstation 5 games, it is what it is
:D
I have them both. Love them both. I like the LXR-02 more because it has more synthesis capability. If they made an LXR-03 with an extra row of button for less shifting & somehow were able to combine Voice & Performance modes together into one, i'd be sooo happy.
The voice/performance thing is a bit weird. At least they updated it so you can preview sounds while editing. My LXR-03 would have six lanes of Perkons-style step buttons :)
I sold my desktop LXR and picked up the module - that gave me all the great sound design options and none of the sequencing/saving headaches, it's much more straightforward. I also have the Perkons, which I think is some new sort of god.
That's a lot of grunt power
I've been on such a drum machine journey over the years, starting with the machinedrum which i've bought and sold twice and desperately want to re-aquire, you never forget your first ;) I built the original sonic potions version of the lxr, and I was definitely blown away by whatever sorcery is going on in the dsp to make a digital drum machine sounds so good (once you move away from the presets), it really is quite an accomplishment on that front. My main issue with it is that the ranges of the parameters is a bit weird, felt like a lot of "dead spots" (in terms of a desired sound, not in that it didn't change) in the range and too much change between a single value, like from 63 to 64, what i wanted always seem to be in between. Seem like perkons has a bit of that issue as well. But I will never get rid of it, probably because I built it myself.
I really lusted after the Division Dept 01/IV, curious why you sold it. I also initially loved the vermona drm mkiii but there were a few niggles with some of the sounds so i sold it, the fact that they did a mkiv and seemed to address my issues with kick has me wanting to revisit. Lastly I've always wanted to give the nord drum 2 a run to see if it can do analog-y sounding stuff not just physical modeling type sounds, have you ever tried?
Your first always makes a big impression - so true. The 808 was my first (well, the band's unit) and I remember being amazed - I can replay my first session with it like a movie! Used it live many times back in the day. Can't say I want to revisit it though since the sound is too familiar. Bought and sold the DD 01/IV twice and both times for the same reasons: 1) Too many functions were inaccessible except via MIDI, and 2) It's so ugly. It looks bearable on video but in person it's just awful. A shame though since the sound is excellent. Haven't tried a Nord, and the Vermona is too big for me, but am getting tempted by the 6S based on comments here.
makes sense re: the 808, i guess my first non hardware drum was technically the 808 and 909 in rebirth (software) but not quite the same as experience the real thing. I did end up building the project 9090 though. yea i was also tempted by the 6s. Glad to know the dd 01/iv issue wasn't sound related, maybe your midi controller solution for delays (nano control or faderfox) could be applied to that, I will have to think about that. But yea it is quite ugly, however I take that as an opportunity to design my own case for it then, if I really loved the sound. it might just be the lame knobs that need changed the rest is relatively ok. Thanks for the reply!@@RichardDeHove
Great! Now I want both!
XD
I would like to think of your mind as being like a lush spring flower meadow following a shower of refreshing rain - a world of unimagineable beauty where once stood an abandoned derelict shed full of old cobwebs and detritis ( and rusty forks and spades ) - and the comments are the manure that brings nourishment and vitality to enhance the beauty of the daffodils and crocuses that bathe in the ethereal glow that your musical mind radiates in all directions.A beautiful lump in the Cosmic Custard. xx
Twiglet, you're getting into that poetic lyricism again. Too much Blake and Browning perhaps ? :)
Yes you're right Richard - aiming to be mellifluous rather than ostentatious though.Just imagine life without imagination.
Thanks for posting this. Always come back to these two to see if I was wrong to sell them. Sadly despite both being superb bits of design they just never got any sort of excitement going from their sounds...which is weird as sonically they both sit well within my tastes
Sometimes it just doesn't happen but the reason remain mysterious. I really liked the sound of the Division Dept 01/IV drum synth. Ended up buying and selling it twice. What did you settle on ?
@@RichardDeHove yup, done that buy/sell a few times ;) that's why these kind of demoes are useful! I ended up with this ridiculous little thing called a Razzamataz as my main programmable & mobile unit (ridiculously great sounding thing with some Linn magic in it)...and the brokenly stupid but quietly individual Korg Drumlogue bolted alongside an Analog 4. I LOVED the Perkons interface though, pure delight!
I see SonicState calls it "Barbie's Drum machine" lol - but it actually looks pretty powerful. A Deton8 that works? Definitely going to look into that one.
Funny enough I just stumbled on this one day after receiving my Perkons, and I have an LXR, but this all tracks for me. The draw of the Perkons was immediacy and more interactive live performance, and as you suggested, in an hour I was banging out some decent sounds and navigating the sequencer and interface with reasonable competency. One thing I do find odd about the Perkons is that the step sequencer buttons are not nearly as easy to activate as I imagined they would be, and seem to require a pretty firm press to engage, which might be a bit of a challenge in doing drum programming on the fly live (comparing to the FR 777 or the Prophet 6 both of which have similar buttons and don’t seem to require the same heft). I take your point regarding knob callibration and travel, though it’s also fair to say there are a few knobs where a tiny bit of travel goes a long way, so I’m not super fussed that the filter and decay are a bit more generalized for use across all voices/timbres/pitch ranges. Appreciate the comparison, it reinforced my decision to go with the Perkons and to send the LXR on to a new home where it will see more use. Cheers.
Thanks for the considered comments. I think you'll quickly adapt to the button pressure. It's a nice sure mechanical click yet still lets you drag a finger across for quick selection. But I agree that it takes a reasonably forceful poke. The knob calibration issue almost seemed a bit petty to me, but compared with the LXR-02 it was a contrast. Still, if you said to someone "I'm slightly irked by the knob calibration of the Perkons' filter, the first quarter turn is entirely wasted", I think a laugh would be a deserved reply :D
Thank you for your continuous quality content.
Regarding saving, coming from a Daw environment i started trying out various hardware devices and while still havent settled i know more
now about what i do or do not like. The saving is one of the things that i am still trying to wrap my mind around. I find it a pain so simply save things
on the Lxr but also on the Tr 6s . It is a completely different mindset. „Save Kit, Save Projects, Save Patterns“ while in the Daw its one click.
I find the Tr 6s slightly better regarding saving as it is very easy to make and save a Backup that i name chronologically so if things go push to shove
i can always rebuild the stages in time . But these miniature monitors and restricted functionality when saving act as a retardant for me regarding wanting to use them sometimes cause i think:
„oh my. if i start now it is late at night and i am tired and then i need to be cautious to save everything in case i create something i want to save and then go through all the steps of saving „““.
They sound great but i havent yet found a way to solve this issue of workflow. I know its different for each individual but in my case
i produce a lot so easy saving is important. However if i spend some jam hours with the devices i tend to not think about such things that much.
You cant have it all i suppose
Save routines on different machines is a whole other universe. I think NASA could do an efficiency study on the best methods. I do know that I've lost a lot of stuff because of the LXR's save and load functionality :/ At least you can name projects. Perkons is the opposite problem, I tend to over-save and have multiple duplicates. I was looking at the 6s for a while and looked again recently after the cr-78 kit was added - but I read too many negative things about the menu structure.
@@RichardDeHove from what i`ve seen in your videos i don`t think the tr6s would be difficult to learn for you. Once you get behing the way of thinking it is not that complex imho. And i am by far not as gifted as you when it comes to understanding this kind of structure.
Its a great little machine that might have a bit too much going on under. the hood hence the menu diving at times. But it has some great things such as it can play back stereo files. Even though its memory is pretty restricting so long pad samples are basically a no go unless you can live with a handful of samples. For me owning both the Lxr02 and the Tr6s i can get a lot closer to something sounding like a complete thing that with the Lxr which excels at "drum machine sounding“ and perfect for more experimental minimalistic creations but the tr6s has quite a lot of tricks up its sleeve tbh.
If i was you i would give it a try. I mean you can order one and try it for a week and send it back if you find it non suiting
Sometimes I almost enjoy twisted menus - at least in the moment when I finally understand them. I will have another look at the 6s.
@@RichardDeHove i hear ya.
I had a moment like this with the Tr6s. Once i understood the workflow and made peace with its shortcomings i decided that the positives outweigh the negatives by quite a lot so i kept it. Also very nice that it can run on batteries without external powerbanks etc. So you insert headphones and can go anywhere.
One downside ist if you power it via usb cable from your computer it can become pretty noisy.
Would be happy to see your first videos on it in the future.
programming drum tracks on a DAW like Ableton is way easier and faster than on these synths but not as much hands on knob tweaking fun.
I had LXR and it sounds great, but now that I have Perkons it easier to control and play it live. Now ,what I don't like is bad calibration of voicers in Perkons, after tuning a voice if you change the sound it often moves a pitch by just a little ,enough to be out of fundamental that you set for that voice. Also played from a midi controller the notes in voice 2,3 and 4 are different when you record them on Perkons sequencer then what you are playing on controller by a semitone or more. Also some of the sounds in a voice are so similar, almost no difference in them. Volume of some sounds is way louder then on other ones on same voice. All this is a dealbreaker for me, it is a lot of money for a machine that is not working as it should. LXR is even with more problems ,midi or like you mentioned in the video. The guy that works on LXR updates is on permanent holiday 😄, and I did not get a reply from Oto Krisjanis about Perkon's midi problem.
Interesting info about Perkons tuning and MIDI. To be fair though Erica Synth does have a pretty good record in updating firmware so I wouldn't get too unhappy about that. For example over the past couple of years all the big requests for the DB-01 have eventually been implemented and made that a much better machine. The last Perkons update changed the odds-hit function (which was a common request) and of course added the chromatic play. I wouldn't be surprised to see some reasonably significant voice tweaks - although that always runs the risk of annoying people who like things exactly as they are. At least there's a few slot still free.
Thank's for the encouragement about Erica Synths crew, hope they will listen and calibrate Perkons with updates. Agree about the sounds, populate the empty slots first, that would be great.
Love my Perkons but I do hope Erica will do a new firmware to add or update the voices/sounds, I suppose since it is digital it could be updated, no? The bandpass filter is a bit of a letdown as well, to narrow to be able to do anything. I am interested in getting a second drum machine to pair it with Perkons, more for the percussion sounds as Perkons lacks a bit on that department especially if you want two percussion sequences running, there is a way but you loose a voice eg the snare. I am strongly considering lxr2 though I wish it had an audio input so that you can process external audio similar to the Octatrack, would be a great feature, maybe lxr3?
There are some odd choices with the voices on Perkons. Does anyone really like Karplus stuff? It'd be great if there were "alternate loads" available for the voices, like the old Sequential TOM drum machine had back in the 80s. As a second machine I think the LXR would be a great choice but if you need processing or samples maybe a Circuit Rhythm or even a TR8s ?
I love my LXR, and it actually brought me to your channel, so win win! I've never tried it, but can you midi control all the fx with knobs? To make it similar to some of the Perkins options?
Sample rate and drive are MIDI CC but the deeper effects parameters are all MIDI NRPN. Not all controllers can send NRPN data.
sold my LXR02 and Roland TR8 for the Perkons today. Im hoping it comnines the sound pallete craziness of the LXR with the performability of the TR8
The per-step automation on the LXR-02 via the Voice menu is incredibly tedious. However there is an easier way. You simply need to hold a step and adjust a parameter to lock the value. You can change between the 2 automation lanes by pressing Shift+Rec.
Brilliant!! I will have to demo this in another video :D Thanks
I don't really understand why the Voice menu allows you to select parameters for any voice outside of the one you're editing. I was hoping that you could potentially parameter-lock up to 12 parameters (2 x the 6 voices) for any one voice, but it doesn't seem to work that way. The one thing you can automate from any voice is the global sample rate reduction, which I suppose is handy.
@@phurniture same here why are they displayed when they dont do anything is there something im missing?
I have a Perkons. I has a great sound but limited range like many people say. So do all the greats though - think 909, 808, Linn Drum. etc
Completely agree. Every machine has a sound of its own. I remember back in the day playing live and we'd replace a particular machine and then try to replicate the same sound of a song - couldn't be done. It'd always be like a new version.
Ich besitze keine der beiden Maschinen. Dieser Vergleich jedoch, überzeugt mich, den grünblauen Koloss aus Ericas Metallschmiede haben zu wollen. Der Klang ist einfach druckvoller und mehr Knöpfe und Taster beflügeln die Tweakerlust. Der Preis ist nur eine natürliche Hemmschwelle. Wie auch immer: eine gute Vorstellung dieser Gesellen. !
Sie sind also eher ein Spieler als ein Programmierer? :) Das wichtige Merkmal, das ich nicht direkt erwähnt habe, aber viele Leute sagen, ist, dass Perkons ein Instrument ist. Im Gegensatz dazu ähnelt der LXR-02 eher einer klassischen Drum-Machine.
The Perkons is capable of a wide variety of sounds. It has a much a wider palette of sounds than Erica's videos would lead you believe. It just takes some exploring and tweaking to get subtle and expressive sounds. It isn't one big sweet spot, but you can save the kits you've created.
I've owned quite a few drum synths/drum machines and this is the most hands on and fun to use.
Agreed. The emphasis in most videos is 'modern aggressive', one (of many) areas I think it also does well is actually a traditional drum kit, especially the snare and metal.
I think using a mixer to pan the channels on the Perkons lets the sounds breath. Using a CXM 1978 lets you really dial in the sound too. Thanks fpr making the video.@@RichardDeHove
Dream desk setup would be Erica Synths DB01 with Zen delay, LXR02 and Perkons. But if I need one box my Virus TI2 beats them all. Drums, effects, synth engines.
That's a mighty big recommendation for the Virus.
I love the Perkons! I had it for two weeks and absolutely loved playing with it but ultimately returned it due to several small disappointments that I don't think should be present at that price range. I also don't make music that fits the wonderfully dirty nature of this beast. Their not being any way to tune the BASS voice in any way to scale was a major let down, also the delay and comp only work on the MONO output and not the individual outs. So not optimal for recording. But it is a Live instrument and should be used by absolute mad lads in basements in Germany, not by a sensitive Swede who makes Emo Electronic Music.
Good point - the higher the price the less tolerance for small disappointments. OTOH I'd like to hear Perkons attempting sensitive Swedish emo.
They added chromatic scale + midi note input with firmware 1.1 though.
Greetings from a german basement. :)
@@ynnn991 The old sold-it-then-they-added-what-I-wanted horror.
I could not deal with the menu diving of the LXR, sent it back after a few days. I want one knob per function. Perkons is way out of the comfortable price range for me.
Sounds like a dilemma :( What's your current solution?
Maybe a model cycles?
Does the Moog DFAM not get into a top five of drum machines(?)
A brilliant and unique machine for sure, but perhaps more of a drum synth than a classic drum machine?
I've owned both, and I sold the Perkōns and kept the LXR-02.
In regards to the overall cost & sonic limitations of the HD-01, I couldn't justify it while my Elektron RYTM is so much more powerful & endlessly rewarding while simultaneously being cheaper.
I enjoyed the Perkons but I don't miss it. If the Perkons were $1000, I would have kept it...but it's $2100.
I know what you mean. Unless you're fabulously rich, the more expensive a machine is the more it needs to deliver on the cost. An Elektron unit and an LXR is still a huge amount of firepower.
Well I have the Machinedrum, perkons hd-01, analog rytm, pulsar 23 and I have to say that the perkons is the most fun/jam machine out of all of them. They all do different things though.
That's some impressive firepower! Not tempted by the Modor yet? And did you get rid of your Rytm Mk1 ?
@@RichardDeHove I have kept all of them, hmm modor... don't tempt me. Any good?
@@KeithDuncanSound I've never played one but I really like the sound in various demos. Lots of different models as starters and then fairly robust controls to start twisting things. Dev is also very active. Drawbacks for me are the size, single input lane and ugly all-white bathroom color scheme.
Why is no one mentioning Syntakt. It is quite capable, has both digital and analog voices.
A model right in the middle would be interesting.
Agreed! In a perfect world I'd have the ergonomics of the Perkons with a whole new set of sounds. Maybe a situation where you could load in new sets of starter models. I've recently been using the Modor DR-2 and in some ways it reminds me of a turbo-charged LXR.
I honestly love Perkons so much. If I was rich Id have 2 lols.
If I wanted smaller and cheaper, I wouldn't go with LXR, I'd go with Roland TR-6S.
The reputation of the 6S seems to be have improved a lot lately. A 6S vs LXR shootout could be interesting....
Lxr anytime its just such i intresting little synth. Its unique and youll just fall in love with it even though its far from perfect. I do like the tr6 but the lxr just seems to make your sounds much more personal. I would say the difference is lxr is much more for sculpting and tr6 is for instant oompf. Both great to have but lxr i would buy again if it ever stopped working
Perkons + effects for some serious TETSUO - The Iron Man industrial vibes
On target! Perkons is definitely in that disturbing zone.
Blast beats drum machine is pretty kick ass from the look of it.
Gotta love all those sliders
Elektron Rytm is the GOAT drum synth. Does more than these and easier to use. If Perkons had 8 voices and 8 tracks like the Rytm it would be great. I love Erica Synths modules but the Perkons is half baked not there yet.
You're absolutely right - the rytm clearly is the spec sheet winner, but in the end I still prefer the playability of the perkons.
For me the rytm is more "machine", while the perkons is more "instrument". In a live situation 8 tracks on the perkons would be quite hard to handle properly, tho. Also I feel like some of it's magic would be lost, as the 4 voice limitation forces you to get creative. Did I even mention the delay yet?
Good point about the Perkons being an instrument rather than a machine. Looking back at some of the old vintage gear like the Drumtraks or TOM, even those felt more like an instrument because there was no grid, everything had to be finger drummed in real time then quantized.
I want to try the Perkons and LXR02 in a synth shop and see how they compare to my Rytm and modular drums.@@ynnn991
well, rytm sound engines are pretty weak. Sound wise jomox is king.
@@Self-HelpandSpiritualAud-sd1mh Jomox firmware tho...
I think the LXR is really underrated. The variety of sounds one can get out of it is amazing.
Agreed, there's a lot of synth power packed in there. I think the entry cost of the menu-and-encoder setup puts many people off.
@@RichardDeHove I actually prefer a menu I can step through to having to try to remember button combos or whatnot.
I know it sounds a bit weird at first but I think for 85% of people a used Machinedrum is the better, more flexible LXR AND Perkons at the same time.
this is such an unsubstantiated remark. you clearly meant to say that YOU really like the Machinedrum. That’s fine. I have one, too. They are nice.
It's tough to sell people on vintage gear. My favorite drum machine is the even older Sequential Tom, but that was flakey as hell even when it was new.
Bro the perkons is totally analog 100 percent and the lxr is fm based it’s like comparing apples to Cadillacs wtf
Check the manual. All the Perkons voices are digital. The only analog elements are the filter and drive sections.
You are incorrect, sir. Perkons is purely digital.
Maybe educate yourself before making unsubstantiated statements that make you look like a ponce?