@@tailsprowerfan2729Completely unrelated but I feel Megaman 9 was the start of all that Nostalgia Pandery stuff many games would do later on. Lol we even got Megaman 10 in 2010!🤣
The way I see it, the problem isn't that there's "too many characters," the problem is that the characters never get utilized in stories or game play, which makes the characters look useless.The problem isn't the number of characters, it's how Sega never uses them for anything meaningful. If Sega would just use the characters and use them in stories that are actually well written, then no one would be complaining about "useless characters" cause the characters wouldn't be useless. I never hear anyone complain that SA2 had too many characters in it, of course not, because in that game you got to play as someone besides just Sonic and each character plays a meaningful role in the story.
that's only because people forgot about the other characters. once you complete the game, you can just play through sonic and shadow stages. the other 2/3rds of the game was not as enjoyable
Sonic with many friends = more spin off games potential. I personally want SEGA to give sonic a break once in awhile. Sonic forces was a good start by allowing players to be a custom character.
Unfortunately I think Sega don't have that many studios that can work in many spin-offs for Sonic games, and if they have Sonic Team working on them, than they will have less time to work in a Sonic game, that will probably get rushed, so time is the thing that can't be wasted.
@@servedbot7377 They did hire Sumo Digital to make race games for them. so it is possible, but Sonic Team would probably want more control in say, something like a Tails solo game.
While I do agree, I think after Sonic 4 it's safe to say that Sega have almost given up trying to give any character other than Sonic any spotlight, especially after that annoying character countdown that they did leading up to the release of that game. God, that irritated me. It was like they were just winking at all of their harshest critics going "Yeah, look! See? Sonic's lame-o friends won't be coming in and ruining this perfect Sonic game! Yeah, we get you, we're on the same level!" All the while ignoring all of the people who actually like these characters. Seriously, no franchise should ever have to cater to people who don't like it in the first place.
@@SonicTheory96the best about Blaze is the fact Sega hasn't changed her character too much over the years from her first appearance in Rush. She's definitely still retains her low tolerance for mischief attitude but is also pretty friendly once you get to know her. I'm honestly kinda glad Sega has been leaning more into her Rush rendition rather than her 06 one a bit more over the years.
Blaze and a few characters are the only ones that fans still love. So much potential and yet they continue to not make her playable and give her more roles
Sonic is a cool, free spirited adventurer who fights for good alongside the friends he makes along the way. The fact that he keeps meeting more people who has relevance into every new adventure isn't something that shouldn't happen. But it's more so the fact that the people that ALREADY exists just fade away without a reason anymore as time moves on. Making the cast TOO large without any of them having lasting character development or not bringing them back to games soon enough to REMEMBER how they developed. I don't think this will ever change. It's massively disappointing and it is a big issue if this drags on. But our love for the characters can pull through an all sorts of other ways even if Sonic Team won't 😊
@@ZenithintheMaking :3 Man I tell ya... I still hope she can be playable again one day. That is my Sonic fan dream for life, especially with me being a diehard Blaze the Cat fan. X3
Like Nabbit, who just randomly shows up with no explanation, and it's now a part of the Mario crew, even though we know next to nothing about him, and probably never will.
@@tatsuostatic8567 Rosalina was the last good Mario character, anyone after that are either forgettable or not interesting. Meanwhile the new Sonic characters like Sage, Tangle and Whisper just keeps fans more invested.
@@cirnosnumberfan6449 That is true, fans are invested in the IDW characters. You know, nobody seems to notice this but me. Whenever there's a new character in the Sonic franchise that is introduced, it's mostly a female character. Examples like Sage, Surge, Lanolin, Trip and even Ariem are an instant like from the fandom
Honestly Sonic's friends are the best part of the Sonic franchise. I think the people that hate them are the people that just want a brainless game with no real plot and Sonic running fast. But that's not what Sonic is. It hasn't been what Sonic is since the Adventure games. In fact, I'd put it this way. The people that hate them are trapped in toxic nostalgia (Sonic started out alone in the first game, but gradually gained friends along the way). Mind you, not all nostalgia is toxic, but some is. Any kind of nostalgia where one feels that their past is more important than someone else's future is toxic nostalgia. The only Sonic game in existence where Sonic did not have allies is the first game (and its versions for the Master System and Game Gear, and neither of those are canon). Imagine if every Sonic game was just Sonic running through levels and fighting Eggman at the end. What would be the effective difference between them? Why would anyone want to just basically buy the same game over and over again? Sonic's friends are what makes the games dynamic, and what makes them diverse. The fact that he has allies that are often playable in the games is one of the things he has in common with Mario. Better yet, imagine if the creators of the Mario games said one day, 'You know what? Mario's allies all suck. We're going to get rid of them.'. Then they retcon them all out of the franchise and only have the games be Mario fighting Bowser. You know how boring that would get really quickly? Allies are important in a long running franchise.
Heck it wasn't the case in the original Classic Era either, its just that the US and European branches overly simplified the lore and made up their own stuff that gave off that impression. Chaos was implied in 3 before he debuted in A1.
@@GoldLight73 The difference with Nintendo though is they learned their lesson (at least it appears that they did). Also it wasn't an outright retcon. They just weren't included in the later games.
I don't have an problem with Sonic's friends, but I think the issue, at least within the games, is a lot of the times (at least in the past) Sonic Team has not done a great job making these characters fun to play as. Lots of people like Amy, but prior to her more recent appearances (Origins, Superstars, Frontiers DLC) she has been pretty awkward to play as. Even Knuckles had issues in Adventure 2 and '06 despite being a very popular character. It seems like Sonic Team is on a perpetual grind and just doesn't have time to test these characters out and fine tune them to be fun to play. Of course SEGA seems to have responded to these issues by thinking fans hate Sonic's friends, rather than they just hate the way they play. I'm actually happy to see at least some of the other characters being playable again in more recent titles, especially since it seems like they learned their lesson and are making them more fun to play as. Here's hoping Dream Team is good...and also ends up on anything other than just Apple Arcade -_-
Great video! Sonic is a globe trotting adventurer, I find him having friends all over the world to be a crucial aspect of his character. Having his friends introduced in mainline games only deepens Sonic as a character and fleshes out his world.
Problem is not with the sonic characters that are added, or with the amount, but with the fact that they are 1 and done, rarelly they get more screen time or importance, amy, who is a very close and important character, took so long to actually have some growth to her character, imagine any side characters that are 1 and done...
You can't tell me that characters like Blaze and Shadow don't enhance the story when they're utilized in a realized story. I miss them because the stories in the past couple of games have been dry.
@@ayylmao8031 The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic. For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
@@orangeslash1667 Yeah, sometimes I believe speed is the series biggest accomplishment and simultaneously its biggest detriment. Not only do the levels have to be constructed 5 times bigger than a traditional 3D platformer but it also leaves little wiggle room for other playable characters with unique movesets.
My issue with Sonic's friends is the dev's never do anything or that much with Sonic's friends anymore. They just become cheerleaders for Sonic after their debut game and/or just quickly fade into nothing and don't show up ever again.
Agreed. Until recently there's been very little to the supporting cast except for how they relate to Sonic. I think more recent titles have at least added some meat to the core cast (Tails, Knuckles, Amy) and let them interact with each other without Sonic (particularly The Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog).
@@stratospherica The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic. For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
Another great example of the general industry hypocrisy that surrounds the franchise, whenever Sonic does anything another franchise does everyone has a problem with it.
@@ligtningdog6399 Okay, and when Pokémon releases subpar, broken, and/or buggy games like they’ve been doing for the past three years every laughs it off because they “had fun”and gives Gamefreak and TPC every excuse in the book while showering the franchise with endless praise despite its declining quality far below the standards of modern day JRPGs yet no one ever wants to call that out.
@@bloodmoon7018 Pokemon is different. That isn't a fan base. That is a CULT! Between the games, toys, shows, youtubers, and r34, Pokemon has built up so much good well over the decades that some people are just programmed to like it. Sonic, in the other hand, has not been about to build up good well.
@@ligtningdog6399 And somehow that “good will” absolves them of any and all criticism? Because people are “programmed to like it” it shouldn’t be met with the same scrutiny? I love Pokémon and I absolutely despise the direction they’re taking it. If you truly are a fan of something then you should be willing to criticize it no matter how harsh it may be, that’s how things improve. They should be getting the exact same critiques levied at them like Sonic does, their good will has been sinking ever since X and Y. If what you said was true then the Sonic franchise would’ve died long ago and considering how Sega freely lets people use their copyrighted IPs music and build whole games using their copyrighted IP I’d say that good will isn’t something they’re missing which is more than I can say about a certain DMCA happy company thats name starts with N. If it wasn’t for the fanbase Sonic wouldn’t still be here and it’s not like we’ve never seen Sonic Team make a good Sonic game before either.
@@bloodmoon7018 Did I say Pokemon was above scrutiny? No. I said those guys were crazy. Pokemon fans would enjoy the same slop over and over and over, but it's constantly above-average slop. They only gotten seriously bad with Pokemon Violated and Scarred. But Sonic is anything but constant. For every good Sonic game, there is 2 or 3 bad ones. So despite what crazy fans are like, nothing is above criticism. Pokemon isn't. And neither is Sonic.
This is a pretty interesting question. One thing I did notice about the other franchises you mention in the video is that they are not video games. I feel like a lot of that dislike comes from how different the gameplay was starting with SA1. I was thinking about Mario’s playable cast, specifically in Wonder. While they do have a few differences between them, they all for the most part play the same, so the choice of character is, for the most part, cosmetic. That’s why I think people are more welcoming towards Sonic’s classic cast, since they all play mostly similar, with their own spin on things. I think deviating too far from the core gameplay style will def turn off a some people from these characters.
I agree, I think that some people really don't like when the gameplay style is switched up on them which is probably the difference maker when it comes to the movies I used to draw comparison. And like you said, while games like Mario have some differences between the characters, they overall play the same.
Basically the classic era and even the Advance series, fans enjoy the gameplay because some of the characters play the same but with their own unique skill. It kinda works because I do remember Sonic Advance and I had a lot of fun playing with everyone
One thing I'd like to see them do more of is make more animal characters that are not either main playable characters or have huge parts in whatever story line they appear in. In a lot of the games it seems like whenever one is introduce, they're always apart of the story or cast of playable characters. Wasn't really till Sonic Boom before they broke that trend and made normal animal characters that were just there to be a character and flesh out the world. In other games though, they'd go to huge rich cities only to find that the inhabitance were more often then not just humans. The general idea is to make the world feel more lively and believable that there are plenty of animal characters that could at any point become more allies for sonic or even against sonic going forward. That new characters don't just pop in out of the blue and exist because of a new game.
sad part is that Sonic Side characters from TV and comics usually get a lot hate and we hate how they treat Sonic and the other main characters. We would like to have only Sonic and the video game characters only and we would like to see more of them in TV and comics including their own solo stories in tv and comics.
Personally, I think reason stems from Sonic 06, where people blamed Sonic's friends for how the game turned out, when it was just Sonic Team rushing the game out.
@@andrewgreeb916 Actually Blaze and Shadow were the best, Blaze's equivalent of the Homing Attack Fire Claw is faster, more responsive and isnt stiff.
I think a good move would be to start cycling characters once they get a good feel for making it work with the core four (+ Cream) in Dream Team. If Dream Team solidifies that they can make multiple playable characters work again, begin making stories and games that could only be done with Sonic, character A, character B, and character C. All three of them can be old characters, maybe a new one can be made for one.
Well I'm sure the same can apply for the Mario franchise, they have a bunch of characters that found a lot of love despite having appeared in very few to only one game, yet Nintendo doesn't really bring much attention to those characters very often and puts more focus on Mario himself, even though it would be fun to explore other characters besides Mario every now & again.
I don't remember this being a problem in the Adventure games; I guess this is a thing starting with Sonic Heroes as there was a pattern that they would add new characters, underutilize them and then forget about them. Every playable character was vital in Adventure 1 and 2, yet in Sonic Heroes the plot was paper-thin, in Shadow the Hedgehog they provided little to no help for Shadow, in Unleashed they were glorified cameos as they had next to no impact on the plot, only for Generations to turn them into personified "level complete" signs.
It was definitely a problem in the sa games, moreso sa2 as the other characters had a lions share of the gameplay, and their gameplay wasn't good, or even resembling a Sonic game.
In games like Sa1, 2, Heroes and 06, Sonic and the iconic series gameplay was effectively relegated to a sideshow, and especially in sa2, Heroes and 06, became a minor part of the games. Imagine buying a Sonic game to play a Sonic game only to find out that only 1/3rd or less of it is Sonic gameplay. And what's there suffers from poor camera, controls, physics, automation etc. So instead of polishing the core gameplay, they instead implemented a bunch of other unrelated gameplay styles, all of which were half-assed in their own right. Doesn't help that they completely missed the point of the criticism with Unleashed. Sure, now it's just Sonic, but still a significant part of the game has nothing to do with Sonic gameplay.
Honestly, the only time the cast actually gets done right is mid-late Archie and IDW. It felt like each character had at least one comic they starred in, or at least had a few pages to themself, to just be like “hey, these characters still have personality”, and the games sorta... strips that from them.
Tails is my favorite Sonic character. If I can't play as him in a Mainline Sonic game, I won't play it. Which means Boom was his last playable appearance in a 3D Sonic game. Sonic 06 was even further if you don't count Boom. Sonic Frontiers DLC was a godsend in terms of allowing players to play a (relatively speaking) good Sonic game with multiple playable characters with fun and unique movesets from each other. Amy got a massive glow-up with her tarot card abilities too. I'm excited to see where SEGA goes with the extended Sonic cast going forward, as now we have Rouge and Cream in Dream Team!
i think its because every new character became a main character in most series a charater would come along for one adventure and then they'll leave but with sonic the characters just keep coming back and alot of the time they dont have much of a reason to come back and thats probably one of the reasons the characters became so one note because its hard to make every character have depth when theres so many of them
Personally I feel to many obsessive Sonic fans view everything from a bubble. Sonic is an adventure series about him traveling across his world & universe... so of course that means he is going to meet new friends & enemies by default from the very nature of it being an adventurous setting... it would be illogical & flatly dead without new characters! Other adventure series rarely ever deal with this "problem," it is a freak oddity with the Sonic franchise for it to be such a big topic to ever worry about.
The only reason why Sonic’s friends are hated is because of a few factors, one is that they appeared in a terrible Sonic game, and two is some characters' controls are terrible depending on which game you’re playing them in (look at Big the Cat and Silver the Hedgehog), three is that some have been poorly written in certain games that submit that view to the general audience. Four is the focus on adding too many characters in one game that desperately needs more refinement and time in the oven (look at Sonic 06 as an example). Also, I would love to see a video about Sonic Villians or Archie Characters who should come back, need expanding, and would be great for the IDW comics. Plus can you make a video about how the IDW comics turn Zavok from a boring Bowser to an unrefined Knightfall Bane of the Sonic Universe?
they got multiple playable characters right/in a way that everyone can dig like the first times they did it. Make them have a sonic-esque playstyle with different abilities that still make how you play one char vs another different. It seems to be basically what dream team is doing but its a mobile game 💀
As someone in the too many friends camp, I can personally say for me it's not that the friend count is too high, it's that they all are so capable that Sonic ends up looking like the weakest member of the groupings, especially in gameplay when they have all their abilities AND are essentially as fast as Sonic. Takes away from what's supposed to be this anomalous "chosen one" protag except when it does make lore sense like Shadow. In other words, I never see a discourse about Goku having too many friends although I'll admit that example has developed something of the opposite problem, however more fans tend to be accepting of it.
Mix up who the main characters accompanying Sonic are every now and then. Instead of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, perhaps Sonic, Espio, Rouge would yield a different tale? Sonic, Amy, Cream would certainly have a different feel. Sonic, being the titular character, would likely have to be included, but Sega has put out Sonic Universe games that didn't have Sonic as the main focus in the past. They always seem to stumble somewhere when they try focusing on someone other than Sonic, though...
Thing is, how many of Sonics friends to people actually dislike? Maybe the Chaotix, particuarly Charmy. Some people dislike Big the Cat. Maybe Amy in the past but not anymore. Thats about it.
it could be from critics opinions cause people to think we don't need Sonic friends , but reality his friends are amazing, people are just stuck in the past , its fun with more characters it's broing it just Sonic and Eggman, if people don't like Sonic friends then this series is not for you either ingore them or leave the franchise
The guy seems to be a Games Grump or some other old RUclipsr fanboy going off his the other time he replied to someone, so hes not happy SEGA isn't buying their crap anymore and has stopped going with the Meta Era's direction.
@@loiiysailor1177 The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic. For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
Funnily enough, even Eggman and Sonic working together is brilliant. If it was similar to other stuff where the main guy hates the main bad guy and that's it would be boring. Here we have Sonic, who, no matter what Eggman does, still doesn't fully give up on the guy. In Lost World the scene of Eggman "sacrificing" himself to save Sonic was pretty brilliant
Big is a good example of a character that warrants criticism, especially in SA1. Most of Sonic's characters are alright, I like a great many of them, but when they're poordly implemented, it understandably gives people a distaste for them. As for outright ill-conceived Sonic characters, the only one I can really think of that I genuinely dislike overall is Silver. Cutting him out of the franchise forever would be a significant improvement. His storyline in 06, was the weakest part of the game, gameplay-wise and narratively. Removing him from the franchise would be nothing but a boon, he ever had a good story, and his presence in Forces made no sense either. Also, the games that features these characters need to be not just good but also emphasize Sonic's cool factor while providing other characters with compelling stories of their own and fun gameplay that doesn't stray too far from what makes Sonic generally work. It's understandable when people get tired of the friends when their stories fall flat, the dialogue is boring, and their gameplay isn't up to par. Well-conceived characters can be used poorly. Tails and Knuckles are great by design, for example. Tails and Knuckles were awesome in Sonic 3 & Knuckles and the Adventure games. But then they sucked in Sonic Forces and Sonic Frontiers for the most part. Knuckles, Shadow, and Blaze are my favorite characters by the way.
Sonic's friends often feel like when Mario enters a water level, as opposed to how they should feel like when you enter water in Rayman Origins. It should stay snappy and fast but change it to a degree. There is often a slowness and clunky design which holds them back and when you're going slower and smelling the roses it only amplifies that some of the roses are decayed, just like the werehog in Sonic Unleashed. You're exposed to the bad for longer while exposed to the good for shorter for speed fans.
The issue stems from the people creating the games and comics. They give us just enough to like the side characters or become attached to them, before unceremoniously killing them off, abandoning them, altering major components of their characters (example: Sally suddenly becoming a lesbian for her dead childhood friend after 25 years of being Sonic's girlfriend), or violating the intended spirit and origins the creators of the characters had for them. It may sound hyperbolic, but this steady string of abandonment, re-shuffling, re-interpreting and outright character death borders on a form of mass emotional abuse thrust onto the fandom. Sega knows how to get you interested enough in the characters to get you attached to them, and then with absolutely no more concern for the people who love and financially support their IP, turns them into hollow cash-grabs. There is absolutely no consistency to the character depictions, and people who like the way Shadow is now are going to clash with those who liked the older versions, thanks to that. The fanbase, especially those of us who have been there from the start, have taken enough beatings to look at new characters as baited hooks for money that will eventually be yet another let-down or infuriating twist later.
To be fair, in the comics, it wasn't entirely their fault. Many of the characters were eliminated because of Ken Penders' little temper tantrum (seriously, he is by far the single most toxic person connected to Sonic; think about that for a second).
To add on to what you stated, the world building for Sonic IP is a complete clusterfuck. It's impossible to truly write and develop a ever growing cast, if no one can agree on the setting. Mobius? A western creation, so games never use it. Earth? No, because that has humans and no talking animals. They come from Sonic's world. What's the name of Sonic's world? ..............................................................................He's from Earth. That's to say nothing about major, earth shattering events being ignored. The Death Egg, the moon, the Black Arms invasion, the moon, Dark Giga, the moon, Eggman taking control of the planet, did I mentioned the moon?
@@ligtningdog6399 That reference of the moon that you mentioned was probably about the event from SA2 in which Eggman blew half of it up with the use of the space colony ARK's eclipse cannon.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 From my limited knowledge, the Sally/Nicole relationship was plan that Ian (or at least someone in his writing staff) had for the post-reboot era of Archie comics. Since Sonic is official not allowed to be romantically involved with anyone, they wanted to jump into "that" bandwagon. It's like the Geoffrey St John thing all over again.
I know what you mean. I like the characters, but there are just too many of them. The biggest concern I had was there are now too many female characters. I usually have no issue with it, since it may compensating for the male cast. But there are too many of them now. Sticks, Shade, Trip, Tangle, Whisper… A majority of new male characters become villains in the IDW comics, and there’s not a whole lot since the main villain focus is on Dr. Eggman.
I always found the hate for Sonic's friends especially weird because - and this might be a hot take - but Sonic is easily the LEAST interesting character in his own series. He's a classic "flat arc" Goku type of character and almost all of the most memorable Sonic moments are either focused on the effects he has on people's lives, or have nothing to do with him directly in the first place.
In a good story we need flat character arcs just as much as the others. Sure when they're introduced, they won't develop into a good person and sure they won't develop into a bad person, but it's pretty much a good trope for the main character to just stay how they are from the start. They'll learn new tactics and abilities, and go through pains and losses, but deep down they will always know how they roll 🤟 That's why I look up to the flat character arc characters
@@ZenithintheMaking Definitely. My point isn't that Sonic shouldn't be a flat arc character, my point is that BECAUSE he is one, it's for the better that he has plenty of side characters, some passing and some permanent fixtures, to effect and bounce off of.
And that is the point. This is the most evident when he confronts Surge in the IDW comics on his morals; the typical boy scout monologue you hear from any stale anime protagonist. In the games, I'd say it's the storybook series where this is the most prominent (considering the surprisingly dark undertones both the games actually had once you look between the lines). The only time you could ever see Sonic being "not so flat" is when you compare him to "Flatter" characters like Mario or Zelda.
I think much of the hatred came well before the recent eras of Sonic, which, fair is fair, kinda DID drop the ball on the side characters. See, you all probably know it by now, but for a while, Sonic had a MASSIVE spike in hatedom, he became THE punching bag for gamers everywhere, and everyone from ProJared to GameGrumps just kept slandering and slandering and SLANDERING the games. Even the good ones like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2! At best, some folks would concede that Sonics 1-3 (and knuckles), CD, and Mania are good, and PROBABLY might feel generous enough to give Generations a pass, but it often went from "it has merits but i dont personally like it" to "so actually these games are all as bad or close to as bad as Sonic 06", and it became a disingenuous mess.
One thing that always bothered me was how the creation of new characters would push older characters to the side First there was Sonic, then he gets his friend Tails Then you get his first rival, Metal Sonic Then you get his second rival, Knuckles Then you get his most iconic Rival, Shadow Then you're reminded that characters like Espio exist in Soinonc Heroes Then sonic Rush gives us another Sonic counterpart and one of the most uniquely designed, Blaze, who gets very little to do and even has her original lore retconned Then there's Jet in Riders Then there's Silver in 06 Then I think they stopped making new Sonic counterparts after that point and just focused mostly on Sonic as the only relevant and playable character in games like Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and etc. It has a sorta similar issue to Dragon Ball where Goku's rivals kept being overshadowed by new rivals Krillin > Tien > Piccolo > Vegeta and those overshadowed characters still stick around anyway to contribute very little in the grand scheme of things
Nintendo likes to share its limelight with other Mario characters and they become their own IP. Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Princess Peach have their own games. SEGA is bad at handling its IP, there is no Tails game, Amy, Knuckles, Blaze, etc. they are sidelined. Shadow had its own game but it was sad. SEGA should embrace Sonic’s friends and gameplay variety. SEGA needs to introduce multiplayer mechanics with characters being its own unique gameplay and synergy. To level up Sonic characters in a Destiny like game would be amazing.
I honestly don't care for the IDW exclusives, not because of the reason you said, but because they're canon, yet no one ever acknowledges their existence, apart from Sonic briefly mentioning Tangle once in one piece of dialogue in Sonic Frontiers. I just feel like their canonicity is wasted for no reason.
Never understood why everyone hated Sonic's friends. No one complained about Goku's friends (most of the time) No one complained about Mario's friends DC or Marvel when it comes to friends so why is it a curse or automatically bad when Sonic gets his friends, if anything his friends make Sonic even more ironic XD
@@michaeltaylor788 The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic. For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
@@orangeslash1667 only a small amount of sonic fan hate the other characters they care more about story and character development when it come to them the people who hate them are just loud and use the internet to sound bigger than they really are.
@@michaeltaylor788 The general public doesn't care about story, they care going fast. Since some people have issues with the multiple play styles of SA 2. It gives them a reason to not like them.
I fully agree. I did get into the franchise because of Sonic’s character, but Silver is my favorite character because of his interesting backstory, his kind and optimistic personality, and his powers. I agree that people may find gameplay in 06 annoying, but 06 did have a bunch of problems, and Project 06 did improve on Silver’s gameplay. I do hope that Silver and some others do get some more spotlight in the games soon. And they don’t deserve all the hate thrown toward them.
Unfortunately, some people are not intelligent and brainless and do nothing but criticize without even first inquiring about reality, unfortunately but fortunately we are not all like that.
I've always liked Sonic's friend. But a lot of times the gameplay isn't handled well especially Big the Cat in Adventure. Sonic '06 had a lot of good ideas but due to rushed development the execution was terrible and at least a huge portion of Sonic ans have hated the idea of playing as multiple characters ever since. Ironically Project '06 showed how the supporting cast should be handled but Sonic Team still haven't gotten out of the habit of rushing games that need more polish. There's been a lot baffling decisions too. Big being clunky and boring in SA1 was the worst of it. Another example in SA2 having Eggman in Gamma style shooting platformer made sense. Putting Tails in one just to match Eggman's gameplay was a terrible idea and didn't work the way his SA1 gameplay did. Knuckles' Emerald Hunt was somewhat polarizing in SA1 but in SA2 they made the levels a lot bigger to the ire of the fanbase. But the bigger levels never bothered me in of itself save like two levels, it's the fact that the Emerald radar only tracks one Emerald shard/collectable at time that really drags down Knuckles and Rouge's gameplay. There was 0 reason for that. Having a telekentic in Sonic '06 in Silver was an interesting idea, and grabbing debris and enemies with your psychic powers to throw was fun. But he was unnecessarily slow especially when the cutscenes showed his powers can give him a boost. He needed more than a groundpound move to stun enemies so they can be grab, calling his point bank slap with a terrible hitbox pitiful would be an understatement. Ultimately the biggest problem is the lack of of time, effort, and money Sonic Team has been willing to put into developing the side characters, not the characters themselves.
I haven’t played Sonic much but I do enjoy watching gameplays and cutscenes online, what I’ve noticed is that the plot seems very repetitive for a while. Eggman comes up with another plan to cause trouble, and Sonic and his usual group go to stop him and than occasionally we search for the Chaos emeralds. Although I can’t complain much since I haven’t played much of the games, I definitely would love to see the game that invents a way out of eggmans story and more into either new villains or possibly an older enemy that hasn’t been mentioned in years. Or maybe a story that brings eggmans story to an end after many years, either he’s finally gone or he joins Sonic side as maybe an anti hero, similar to Shadow joining Sonic. Cause we’ve seen from time to time in other games when they are forced to work together that they could be a unique duo. Even if he’s not part of Sonic team his tale as the villain would stop finally.
Looks at title: Are we back to 2010s now? I kinda feel like Sonic's friends hasn't been hated in long while ever since Blaze became popular since we are kinda pass now "Sonic is bad because they have different gameplay styles" and more "Sonic is bad because sega keeps mishandling franchise" x'D
I like most of sonics, friends, rivals and associates with some exceptions though they're more just annoyances to me like Cream and vanilla (though I love that Vector is down bad for Vanilla) but I still like that they exist
Well, I’m not a hardcore Sonic fan (stumbled on this video by accident). So, my problem with Sonic’s friends is that there are more than a casual fan like me can keep track of. I basically topped out when Cream the Rabbit was introduced.
Now are they hated by sonic fans..because I never seen that be the case..Usually by people who already say "Sonic games suck" so what is the point of hearing em out?
It’s mostly just because they’re cringe. Sonic as a franchise is cringe which is why the only people really into it are fans. It’s stuck in this weird place where the writing and acting is clearly meant for young children, but young children aren’t into things like Sonic anymore. They’re into Fortnite, Snapchat etc. I enjoyed Mania a lot because the annoying characters didn’t tell goofy Christmas cracker tier jokes constantly.
Big the cat gameplay could actually be really fun like imagine using the fishing rod to swing around and keep your momentum going and belly flopping to gain height/kill enemies
I grew up with the Sonic Archie comics and I have no hate for the new characters in sonic’s universe. I just wish we could combine both worlds. It does bum me out that they just keep on ignoring the original stories of Mobius & the Acorn family. It’s great world building and adds a lot to sonics character. Sega could make a great game with the original Archie comics characters & of course include the new characters. It really surprises me they haven’t done it yet.
The shooting stages in SA2 is the biggest reason why people hated having multiple characters along with Sonic Heroes where we have to beat the 4 campaigns JUST TO BEAT THE GAME!!! I beat Sonic heroes. I don’t have a problem beating 4 campaigns but, some do have a problem with that.
Sonic's friends are literally the best part of the franchise.. without them, there'd be no reason to read the comics or watch the cartoons.. like, imagine if those were just gonna be Sonic Saves The Day Part 69420, that would get boring ngl.. plus, it's even more noticeable that the games where you only play as Sonic aren't as interesting as the games where you can also play as the others (with a few masterpiece exceptions, but those exceptions still make it a point to include the side characters as much as possible) growing up my hottest platformer take was even: "i like Mario for the games, i like Sonic for the characters" and i still do think this is somewhat true..
The simple reason is that sonic's friends in the 3D games always lead to annoyiing gameplay. sonic fans want fast moving platforming. in sonic 2 and 3, extra characters had unique movesets in a fast paced platforming game. in contrast, sonic adventuree, knuckles is a RNG scavenger hunt, amy about walking away from a simple robot in a boring and slow game mode. gamma is a spamfest shallows 3rd person shooter thing. big is fishing. if all the characters played like sonic's game mode, people whould have been fine. adventure 2 had 1/3 of the game being the scavenger hunt, and 1/3 being gamma's gameplay, when people just wanted fast paced platforming. sonic heroes got rid of the alternate game modes that people hated, but made you play the game 4x over with teams that required awkward mechanics. the 4 times were barely different too, so it really felt like playing the same game 4x. shadow the hedgehog almost came close to that speedy platforming, but was mission focused and relied too much on guns. it was a weird game, people just wanted good speedy platforming in 3D. sonic 06 was overall bad. the friends in that didn't particularly matter, because all game modes were terrible, and everyone was horribly implemented. you liked silver in that game, but most people hated everyone in that game. people don't complain about sonic's friends in the 2D platformers... because they play as they should in a sonic game. amy in the advance games, origins plus and superstars plays waaaaay better than amy in adventure 1. she plays like an alternate character in the same game mode as sonic. nobody hated cream in advance 2 and 3, but weren't fans of her in heroes. it's just that sega team insists on not giving the fans the simple thing they want. look at unleashed, does the same annoying thing, with only 1 character playable. but playing as sonic, it's a runner, and playing as werehog, it's a brawler. people aren't playing sonic for a brawler, and forcing two game modes like that in a game rubs people the wrong way just like forced stealth sections in action games. generations and forces force you to play alternate modes of sonic instead of just sticking to a 3D game and a 2D game separately
I hope they show them again, I always thought it felt awkward and creepy when mist of tyem disappeared and tyen only Tails, Knuckles and Amy cane back for YEARS!.. Like it was as if they killed off all the others...
This conundrum is largely what got me interested, and ironically uninterested in the Sonic series. "Oh look, a large cast of colorful characters! Cool! What are their roles in the overall story?" "Uhhh... well beyond Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Rouge, and sometimes Cream, everyone else is sort of.. one-and-done type characters." "Oh. Well that uh... that kinda sucks.."
I grew up with Archie Sonic comics. They were a mess. People who think they were better than the IDW Sonic comics...what are you smoking? The IDW comics are much better written, have better and more consistent artwork, and its original characters fit into the Sonic universe so much better. I could see Tangle being a playable character in the games. If you count the mobile games, she technically already is. For Archie's characters, you've got Sonic with a mustache, a dozen Knuckles clones with slight variations to their design, green Sonic, and a chipmunk with boobs. Also, with IDW, we don't have to deal with weird love triangles or any of the weird/uncomfortable stuff Ken Penders slipped in.
Kind of a hot-take to say they're all hated. From my experiences I've seen people rat on Amy first, but these days all the weight (...Heh) goes to Big.
Honestly, when it comes to like Sonic games, I do prefer the casts not consisting of only Sonic, Tails, Eggman and Eggman's henchmen, it's why I don't think Sonic Colors for console was the best, but really liked the handheld version more, because it brought all of Sonic's friends together. Even Sonic Lost Worlds was a hit and a miss for me, because even though Amy and Knuckles appeared in Lost Worlds, they didn't make much of an impact on the overall story. Also the Boom era was also weird, because obviously they focused on the main four, but it was an alternate world, where we only see Shadow and Vector appearing, but nobody else. So many characters were in a blank space for awhile. Also it's funny, IDW has become such a success that Ian Flynn wrote for Frontiers and made the comic characters canon, even though they haven't made a canon appearance in a actual canon Sonic game other than a mention from Sonic. However I am still wanting and desiring the actual return of the Knothole Freedom Fighters, plus introducing Mighty and Ray into modern games canon with updated modern designs, like they did with the Chaotix, who were the last classic era characters to be introduced in the modern era with Heroes.
Well for one Sega mistreats Sonic with not seeming to get a handle on what to do with him. This happens more exponentially with is ever growing enturage of "friends" that barely do anything with osme of them not appearing in any media for years on end. I dont think people hate these characters, just that Sega refuses to do anything competent with them while piling more and more ontop of a bloated cast.
Personally, Sonic is one of my least favorite Sonic characters (not that I hate him; I just love everyone else). Sonic Adventure 1+2, Sonic Heroes, and Shadow the hedgehog were my childhood. Unfortunately, I feel like I'll get to feel that again with new games, as they've dropped the importance of the other characters/different ways characters play. Everytime I've tried to pick up a new Sonic Game over the past decade, it's mostly been meh. Frontiers was fun for a bit, but I've barely thought about it since to week I played it
I totally agree there where 2 types of fans fr original sega Dreamcast fans & fans that grew up with sonic adventure 2 those eras & advance where the time I grew up n agree that all of sonics friends where great additions for the most part and I think they need to make more games like hero’s, advance & adventure series I grew up on Archie comics n sonic games with a huge cast I hate how much split there is in the series rn cuz it feels like they keep trying to feed fans of the original sega games n try to go us giving u sonic 06 style games or Sonic 20 year anniversary or colors is keeping the sonic adventure 2 style games fans fed n they r actually starving that lack of switchable characters & chaos has just made me give up on the franchise I have hope maybe one day they’ll pick up that formula but Sonics never been the same after O6 & unleashed hero’s was the last good game
No body hate sonic friends. They just hate the fact their no shine or deep dive to them. Like why Amy like sonic? Why tails a friend of Sonic? What happened to all Sonic’s friends families?…etc. also SEGA first give them their own game play then change it to be a copy of Sonic gameplay. Also SEGA did not give them time for break out of Sonic fame circle. Lastly the fans hate sonic friends games because they were bad, and SEGA can’t write for them.
I just wish I could see a modern version of Mighty and Ray again. They did it in the Archie comics and it was really cool, but for some reason it seems sega is dead set on making classic sonic and his world a dimension rather than a younger version of modern sonic and seeing as the only time we’ve seen Ray and Mighty in recent years is in that “dimension” I highly doubt will see a modern take on these characters again
Luckily We’ll most likely be seeing more of Sonic’s friends in the next game since frontier’s dlc acted as a testing ground for their game play mechanics. We all know what that means 😊
This argument never made a lot of sense to me. Mario can have many uniquely beloved characters and antagonists, or any other franchises that expands the universe but it’s damaging to Sonic?? Clearly Sega took it to heart. Which they shouldn’t frankly. You covered everything in the video what made the franchise more special with other characters. Which further made it hard to wrap my head around why this complaint exists. This video took words out of my mouth. At least more playable characters are gradually making a comeback after so long. There’s always gonna be characters we don’t like, but being shaft away nearly entirely is just an empty boring feeling.
Let's be honest here. If the series only starred Sonic and Eggman on their own. It would've gotten stale a lot sooner. To me, he's always worked better when he's had others to bounce off of.
Based on my own research and my personal opinion, Sonic's friends themselves are not the problem. It was how SEGA handled them, and they handled them horribly. In terms of trying to fix a character like Amy Rose, when you look at the Amy Rose character on paper, it's NOT a bad idea. A hedgehog love interest that looks up to Sonic. But she thinks that Sonic is invincible. Explain why. Give her more depth. She never seemed to learn from her mistakes from the Adventure Era. So, do just that. Maybe she used to listen to overexaggerated stories about Sonic when she was younger. Like Sonic is this invincible Superhero, and all of the bad guys like Dr. Eggman are just weaklings. But when she finally meets Sonic, she actually realizes that that's not the case. And starts to learn that she could get herself hurt if she's not careful.
First of all, it's important to read the instruction or guide for playing as big the cat in sa1. Yes! Must read guide to play big better. Don't skip it, you illiterate db fan! I know there are people that don't like the boring fishing gameplay because it's not as fast paced as sonic, but that's the neat part. You don't get to lose your breath from going at high speed because you're taking a break from that with big's fishing gameplay. Second, in order to REALLY get close to understanding the sonic series, you must become a weeb/weeaboo and understand the original Japanese side of the franchise because sonic from both west and east are not the same and neither are the interpretations. In game stories and lore, they tend to get localized, mistranslated and misconceptualized. Third and most important part, sonic isn't about quantity like his plumber rival, it's about quality (and substance). The real problem with his friends isn't because of the numbers or if they're bad, it's how they're handled that is the problem. Having multiple characters with multiple respective places with different ways in life can lead to whole different worlds of exploration and expandable world building. Both lore wise and gameplay wise. Yes! gameplay just needs to be engaging and well executed. (Story also has to be well executed.) I also think that the cast should not be in stories when it doesn't concern them. I know people may want these casts to be as relevant as they want. But which would you rather have for the characters? Not bring them back to play a more suitable role for them? Or always have them be around and be a cash grabbing stable of always being with sonic to be relevant to the point where they barely have any reason to be there?
Sonic’s cast being so panned makes me sad because the rich cast of characters is probably my favorite part of Sonic as a whole.
I agree wholeheartedly
Same, that's the best part imo
Start reading the IDW comics. Its more about the other character than sonic and the stories are also cool
Yeah
Same. I love the other characters almost more than Sonic himself
Without side characters you get a super repetitive story of protagonist against an antagonist and no depth to it
That’s the 2010s I’m a nutshell
It just broing
@@loiiysailor1177 It's just Boeing
@@robertlupa8273 what?
@@tailsprowerfan2729Completely unrelated but I feel Megaman 9 was the start of all that Nostalgia Pandery stuff many games would do later on. Lol we even got Megaman 10 in 2010!🤣
The way I see it, the problem isn't that there's "too many characters," the problem is that the characters never get utilized in stories or game play, which makes the characters look useless.The problem isn't the number of characters, it's how Sega never uses them for anything meaningful. If Sega would just use the characters and use them in stories that are actually well written, then no one would be complaining about "useless characters" cause the characters wouldn't be useless. I never hear anyone complain that SA2 had too many characters in it, of course not, because in that game you got to play as someone besides just Sonic and each character plays a meaningful role in the story.
The problem with sa2 isn't that other characters were useless, but that they and their crap gameplay overshadowed the good gameplay.
that's only because people forgot about the other characters. once you complete the game, you can just play through sonic and shadow stages. the other 2/3rds of the game was not as enjoyable
@@snakey888 WRATH OF ZEUS! ⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡
The IDW comics have stories where the side characters are pretty well used, and the original comic characters fit in perfectly.
@@khaosklub Speak for yourself, bro - I loved all of SA2
Nowadays, we hate that Sonic's friends aren't playable as often.
Sonic with many friends = more spin off games potential.
I personally want SEGA to give sonic a break once in awhile. Sonic forces was a good start by allowing players to be a custom character.
Unfortunately I think Sega don't have that many studios that can work in many spin-offs for Sonic games, and if they have Sonic Team working on them, than they will have less time to work in a Sonic game, that will probably get rushed, so time is the thing that can't be wasted.
@@banjo9158 if the game is a success, they can hire hardlight to make spin off games for them while sonic team work on the main titles
@@servedbot7377 They did hire Sumo Digital to make race games for them. so it is possible, but Sonic Team would probably want more control in say, something like a Tails solo game.
While I do agree, I think after Sonic 4 it's safe to say that Sega have almost given up trying to give any character other than Sonic any spotlight, especially after that annoying character countdown that they did leading up to the release of that game. God, that irritated me. It was like they were just winking at all of their harshest critics going "Yeah, look! See? Sonic's lame-o friends won't be coming in and ruining this perfect Sonic game! Yeah, we get you, we're on the same level!" All the while ignoring all of the people who actually like these characters. Seriously, no franchise should ever have to cater to people who don't like it in the first place.
Please give us more Blaze Sega. She has so much untapped potential and she absolutely needs more love.
A Blaze centered spinoff game that takes place in her dimension or kingdom would be sweet imo
@@SonicTheory96the best about Blaze is the fact Sega hasn't changed her character too much over the years from her first appearance in Rush. She's definitely still retains her low tolerance for mischief attitude but is also pretty friendly once you get to know her. I'm honestly kinda glad Sega has been leaning more into her Rush rendition rather than her 06 one a bit more over the years.
Id love to have a console blaze focused game unlike the only two ds games shes playable in.
I love sonic rush...
Blaze and a few characters are the only ones that fans still love. So much potential and yet they continue to not make her playable and give her more roles
There should be a joke in the games where Blaze chases a red dot.
Sonic is a cool, free spirited adventurer who fights for good alongside the friends he makes along the way.
The fact that he keeps meeting more people who has relevance into every new adventure isn't something that shouldn't happen. But it's more so the fact that the people that ALREADY exists just fade away without a reason anymore as time moves on. Making the cast TOO large without any of them having lasting character development or not bringing them back to games soon enough to REMEMBER how they developed.
I don't think this will ever change. It's massively disappointing and it is a big issue if this drags on. But our love for the characters can pull through an all sorts of other ways even if Sonic Team won't 😊
Especially like say... Blaze the Cat for example? :3
@@jimmyhook4852 yeah sure~ Including Blaze 💜🐈👑
@@ZenithintheMaking :3
Man I tell ya... I still hope she can be playable again one day. That is my Sonic fan dream for life, especially with me being a diehard Blaze the Cat fan. X3
Blaze legit has a whole dimension that you could explore.
The same with Silver since he is from the future.
@@sliceninja4546 Got that right. :)
Mario can have as many friends as he wants, but when Sonic do it it's bad.
Like Nabbit, who just randomly shows up with no explanation, and it's now a part of the Mario crew, even though we know next to nothing about him, and probably never will.
People have a bias against sonic and I don't know why
Maybe because Mario's friends are more interesting and cooler. Can't really say for Sonic's friends when some of them aren't all that great
@@tatsuostatic8567 Rosalina was the last good Mario character, anyone after that are either forgettable or not interesting. Meanwhile the new Sonic characters like Sage, Tangle and Whisper just keeps fans more invested.
@@cirnosnumberfan6449 That is true, fans are invested in the IDW characters. You know, nobody seems to notice this but me. Whenever there's a new character in the Sonic franchise that is introduced, it's mostly a female character. Examples like Sage, Surge, Lanolin, Trip and even Ariem are an instant like from the fandom
Honestly Sonic's friends are the best part of the Sonic franchise. I think the people that hate them are the people that just want a brainless game with no real plot and Sonic running fast. But that's not what Sonic is. It hasn't been what Sonic is since the Adventure games. In fact, I'd put it this way. The people that hate them are trapped in toxic nostalgia (Sonic started out alone in the first game, but gradually gained friends along the way). Mind you, not all nostalgia is toxic, but some is. Any kind of nostalgia where one feels that their past is more important than someone else's future is toxic nostalgia. The only Sonic game in existence where Sonic did not have allies is the first game (and its versions for the Master System and Game Gear, and neither of those are canon).
Imagine if every Sonic game was just Sonic running through levels and fighting Eggman at the end. What would be the effective difference between them? Why would anyone want to just basically buy the same game over and over again? Sonic's friends are what makes the games dynamic, and what makes them diverse. The fact that he has allies that are often playable in the games is one of the things he has in common with Mario.
Better yet, imagine if the creators of the Mario games said one day, 'You know what? Mario's allies all suck. We're going to get rid of them.'. Then they retcon them all out of the franchise and only have the games be Mario fighting Bowser. You know how boring that would get really quickly? Allies are important in a long running franchise.
Heck it wasn't the case in the original Classic Era either, its just that the US and European branches overly simplified the lore and made up their own stuff that gave off that impression. Chaos was implied in 3 before he debuted in A1.
Double heck, concept art for the original Sonic The Hedgehog showed Sonic in a band with other characters, so he's never _really_ been alone
That last paragraph hits especially hard, because Nintendo DID basically do that for Paper Mario. It went about as well as you’d expect.
@@GoldLight73 The difference with Nintendo though is they learned their lesson (at least it appears that they did). Also it wasn't an outright retcon. They just weren't included in the later games.
“Why would anyone want to just basically buy the same game over and over again?”
tell that to the FIFA series
If Sonic doesn't have friends then the game franchises will be extremely empty with just Sonic and Eggman.
I don't have an problem with Sonic's friends, but I think the issue, at least within the games, is a lot of the times (at least in the past) Sonic Team has not done a great job making these characters fun to play as. Lots of people like Amy, but prior to her more recent appearances (Origins, Superstars, Frontiers DLC) she has been pretty awkward to play as. Even Knuckles had issues in Adventure 2 and '06 despite being a very popular character. It seems like Sonic Team is on a perpetual grind and just doesn't have time to test these characters out and fine tune them to be fun to play. Of course SEGA seems to have responded to these issues by thinking fans hate Sonic's friends, rather than they just hate the way they play. I'm actually happy to see at least some of the other characters being playable again in more recent titles, especially since it seems like they learned their lesson and are making them more fun to play as. Here's hoping Dream Team is good...and also ends up on anything other than just Apple Arcade -_-
Great video! Sonic is a globe trotting adventurer, I find him having friends all over the world to be a crucial aspect of his character. Having his friends introduced in mainline games only deepens Sonic as a character and fleshes out his world.
Perfectly stated 😁
Problem is not with the sonic characters that are added, or with the amount, but with the fact that they are 1 and done, rarelly they get more screen time or importance, amy, who is a very close and important character, took so long to actually have some growth to her character, imagine any side characters that are 1 and done...
You can't tell me that characters like Blaze and Shadow don't enhance the story when they're utilized in a realized story. I miss them because the stories in the past couple of games have been dry.
I thought the hatred for Sonic's friends had died down in recent years. I guess not?
I think the overall hatred for the series will always be prevalent as long as it exists, no matter how good or bad the franchise gets.
@@ayylmao8031 The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic.
For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
@@orangeslash1667 Yeah, sometimes I believe speed is the series biggest accomplishment and simultaneously its biggest detriment. Not only do the levels have to be constructed 5 times bigger than a traditional 3D platformer but it also leaves little wiggle room for other playable characters with unique movesets.
@@ayylmao8031
Speed isn't the issue, seeing how many variations of speed gameplay Sega has made as is.
@@ayylmao8031 This would explain why Yuji Naka and Sonic Unleash director Yoshihisa Hashimoto left Sega. Even they may have run out of ideas.
My issue with Sonic's friends is the dev's never do anything or that much with Sonic's friends anymore. They just become cheerleaders for Sonic after their debut game and/or just quickly fade into nothing and don't show up ever again.
Agreed. Until recently there's been very little to the supporting cast except for how they relate to Sonic. I think more recent titles have at least added some meat to the core cast (Tails, Knuckles, Amy) and let them interact with each other without Sonic (particularly The Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog).
Just as Sega intended really. After all, Sonic is a mary-sue.
@@stratospherica The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic.
For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
Another great example of the general industry hypocrisy that surrounds the franchise, whenever Sonic does anything another franchise does everyone has a problem with it.
Let's be honest here. When Sonic does something, more then half the time, it's subpar/worse than other franchises.
@@ligtningdog6399 Okay, and when Pokémon releases subpar, broken, and/or buggy games like they’ve been doing for the past three years every laughs it off because they “had fun”and gives Gamefreak and TPC every excuse in the book while showering the franchise with endless praise despite its declining quality far below the standards of modern day JRPGs yet no one ever wants to call that out.
@@bloodmoon7018 Pokemon is different. That isn't a fan base. That is a CULT! Between the games, toys, shows, youtubers, and r34, Pokemon has built up so much good well over the decades that some people are just programmed to like it.
Sonic, in the other hand, has not been about to build up good well.
@@ligtningdog6399 And somehow that “good will” absolves them of any and all criticism? Because people are “programmed to like it” it shouldn’t be met with the same scrutiny? I love Pokémon and I absolutely despise the direction they’re taking it. If you truly are a fan of something then you should be willing to criticize it no matter how harsh it may be, that’s how things improve. They should be getting the exact same critiques levied at them like Sonic does, their good will has been sinking ever since X and Y. If what you said was true then the Sonic franchise would’ve died long ago and considering how Sega freely lets people use their copyrighted IPs music and build whole games using their copyrighted IP I’d say that good will isn’t something they’re missing which is more than I can say about a certain DMCA happy company thats name starts with N. If it wasn’t for the fanbase Sonic wouldn’t still be here and it’s not like we’ve never seen Sonic Team make a good Sonic game before either.
@@bloodmoon7018 Did I say Pokemon was above scrutiny? No. I said those guys were crazy. Pokemon fans would enjoy the same slop over and over and over, but it's constantly above-average slop. They only gotten seriously bad with Pokemon Violated and Scarred.
But Sonic is anything but constant. For every good Sonic game, there is 2 or 3 bad ones.
So despite what crazy fans are like, nothing is above criticism. Pokemon isn't. And neither is Sonic.
This is a pretty interesting question. One thing I did notice about the other franchises you mention in the video is that they are not video games. I feel like a lot of that dislike comes from how different the gameplay was starting with SA1. I was thinking about Mario’s playable cast, specifically in Wonder. While they do have a few differences between them, they all for the most part play the same, so the choice of character is, for the most part, cosmetic. That’s why I think people are more welcoming towards Sonic’s classic cast, since they all play mostly similar, with their own spin on things. I think deviating too far from the core gameplay style will def turn off a some people from these characters.
I agree, I think that some people really don't like when the gameplay style is switched up on them which is probably the difference maker when it comes to the movies I used to draw comparison. And like you said, while games like Mario have some differences between the characters, they overall play the same.
Basically the classic era and even the Advance series, fans enjoy the gameplay because some of the characters play the same but with their own unique skill. It kinda works because I do remember Sonic Advance and I had a lot of fun playing with everyone
@@tatsuostatic8567 yeah kind of, though I was more referring to general audiences/gaming community.
Maybe if Knuckles just had his HAT and SUNGLASSES back...
One thing I'd like to see them do more of is make more animal characters that are not either main playable characters or have huge parts in whatever story line they appear in. In a lot of the games it seems like whenever one is introduce, they're always apart of the story or cast of playable characters. Wasn't really till Sonic Boom before they broke that trend and made normal animal characters that were just there to be a character and flesh out the world.
In other games though, they'd go to huge rich cities only to find that the inhabitance were more often then not just humans.
The general idea is to make the world feel more lively and believable that there are plenty of animal characters that could at any point become more allies for sonic or even against sonic going forward. That new characters don't just pop in out of the blue and exist because of a new game.
sad part is that Sonic Side characters from TV and comics usually get a lot hate and we hate how they treat Sonic and the other main characters.
We would like to have only Sonic and the video game characters only and we would like to see more of them in TV and comics including their own solo stories in tv and comics.
Personally, I think reason stems from Sonic 06, where people blamed Sonic's friends for how the game turned out, when it was just Sonic Team rushing the game out.
To be fair every character in that game played poorly, the speed characters were more bearable though
@@andrewgreeb916 Actually Blaze and Shadow were the best, Blaze's equivalent of the Homing Attack Fire Claw is faster, more responsive and isnt stiff.
I think a good move would be to start cycling characters once they get a good feel for making it work with the core four (+ Cream) in Dream Team. If Dream Team solidifies that they can make multiple playable characters work again, begin making stories and games that could only be done with Sonic, character A, character B, and character C. All three of them can be old characters, maybe a new one can be made for one.
Well I'm sure the same can apply for the Mario franchise, they have a bunch of characters that found a lot of love despite having appeared in very few to only one game, yet Nintendo doesn't really bring much attention to those characters very often and puts more focus on Mario himself, even though it would be fun to explore other characters besides Mario every now & again.
I don't remember this being a problem in the Adventure games; I guess this is a thing starting with Sonic Heroes as there was a pattern that they would add new characters, underutilize them and then forget about them. Every playable character was vital in Adventure 1 and 2, yet in Sonic Heroes the plot was paper-thin, in Shadow the Hedgehog they provided little to no help for Shadow, in Unleashed they were glorified cameos as they had next to no impact on the plot, only for Generations to turn them into personified "level complete" signs.
It was definitely a problem in the sa games, moreso sa2 as the other characters had a lions share of the gameplay, and their gameplay wasn't good, or even resembling a Sonic game.
In games like Sa1, 2, Heroes and 06, Sonic and the iconic series gameplay was effectively relegated to a sideshow, and especially in sa2, Heroes and 06, became a minor part of the games.
Imagine buying a Sonic game to play a Sonic game only to find out that only 1/3rd or less of it is Sonic gameplay. And what's there suffers from poor camera, controls, physics, automation etc. So instead of polishing the core gameplay, they instead implemented a bunch of other unrelated gameplay styles, all of which were half-assed in their own right.
Doesn't help that they completely missed the point of the criticism with Unleashed. Sure, now it's just Sonic, but still a significant part of the game has nothing to do with Sonic gameplay.
Honestly, the only time the cast actually gets done right is mid-late Archie and IDW. It felt like each character had at least one comic they starred in, or at least had a few pages to themself, to just be like “hey, these characters still have personality”, and the games sorta... strips that from them.
Tails is my favorite Sonic character. If I can't play as him in a Mainline Sonic game, I won't play it. Which means Boom was his last playable appearance in a 3D Sonic game. Sonic 06 was even further if you don't count Boom. Sonic Frontiers DLC was a godsend in terms of allowing players to play a (relatively speaking) good Sonic game with multiple playable characters with fun and unique movesets from each other. Amy got a massive glow-up with her tarot card abilities too.
I'm excited to see where SEGA goes with the extended Sonic cast going forward, as now we have Rouge and Cream in Dream Team!
i think its because every new character became a main character in most series a charater would come along for one adventure and then they'll leave but with sonic the characters just keep coming back and alot of the time they dont have much of a reason to come back and thats probably one of the reasons the characters became so one note because its hard to make every character have depth when theres so many of them
He needs more friends ❤
Personally I feel to many obsessive Sonic fans view everything from a bubble. Sonic is an adventure series about him traveling across his world & universe... so of course that means he is going to meet new friends & enemies by default from the very nature of it being an adventurous setting... it would be illogical & flatly dead without new characters! Other adventure series rarely ever deal with this "problem," it is a freak oddity with the Sonic franchise for it to be such a big topic to ever worry about.
Yea never made sense to me.
The only reason why Sonic’s friends are hated is because of a few factors, one is that they appeared in a terrible Sonic game, and two is some characters' controls are terrible depending on which game you’re playing them in (look at Big the Cat and Silver the Hedgehog), three is that some have been poorly written in certain games that submit that view to the general audience. Four is the focus on adding too many characters in one game that desperately needs more refinement and time in the oven (look at Sonic 06 as an example). Also, I would love to see a video about Sonic Villians or Archie Characters who should come back, need expanding, and would be great for the IDW comics. Plus can you make a video about how the IDW comics turn Zavok from a boring Bowser to an unrefined Knightfall Bane of the Sonic Universe?
they got multiple playable characters right/in a way that everyone can dig like the first times they did it. Make them have a sonic-esque playstyle with different abilities that still make how you play one char vs another different. It seems to be basically what dream team is doing but its a mobile game 💀
As someone in the too many friends camp, I can personally say for me it's not that the friend count is too high, it's that they all are so capable that Sonic ends up looking like the weakest member of the groupings, especially in gameplay when they have all their abilities AND are essentially as fast as Sonic. Takes away from what's supposed to be this anomalous "chosen one" protag except when it does make lore sense like Shadow. In other words, I never see a discourse about Goku having too many friends although I'll admit that example has developed something of the opposite problem, however more fans tend to be accepting of it.
Yes, but then you have people complaining about little things like "SILVER IS TOO SLOW!!!" in 06
I think it’s more that people hate how they’re frequently neglected by Sega in terms of plot, especially outside their debut.
Mix up who the main characters accompanying Sonic are every now and then. Instead of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, perhaps Sonic, Espio, Rouge would yield a different tale? Sonic, Amy, Cream would certainly have a different feel. Sonic, being the titular character, would likely have to be included, but Sega has put out Sonic Universe games that didn't have Sonic as the main focus in the past. They always seem to stumble somewhere when they try focusing on someone other than Sonic, though...
Thing is, how many of Sonics friends to people actually dislike? Maybe the Chaotix, particuarly Charmy. Some people dislike Big the Cat. Maybe Amy in the past but not anymore. Thats about it.
The people who dislike the other characters are a minority and gather around the internet 🛜 to make echo chambers to make themselves seem bigger
it could be from critics opinions cause people to think we don't need Sonic friends , but reality his friends are amazing, people are just stuck in the past , its fun with more characters it's broing it just Sonic and Eggman, if people don't like Sonic friends then this series is not for you either ingore them or leave the franchise
@@Skycrusher insulting me makes you feel good?
The guy seems to be a Games Grump or some other old RUclipsr fanboy going off his the other time he replied to someone, so hes not happy SEGA isn't buying their crap anymore and has stopped going with the Meta Era's direction.
@@loiiysailor1177 The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic.
For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
Funnily enough, even Eggman and Sonic working together is brilliant. If it was similar to other stuff where the main guy hates the main bad guy and that's it would be boring. Here we have Sonic, who, no matter what Eggman does, still doesn't fully give up on the guy. In Lost World the scene of Eggman "sacrificing" himself to save Sonic was pretty brilliant
Big is a good example of a character that warrants criticism, especially in SA1. Most of Sonic's characters are alright, I like a great many of them, but when they're poordly implemented, it understandably gives people a distaste for them. As for outright ill-conceived Sonic characters, the only one I can really think of that I genuinely dislike overall is Silver. Cutting him out of the franchise forever would be a significant improvement. His storyline in 06, was the weakest part of the game, gameplay-wise and narratively. Removing him from the franchise would be nothing but a boon, he ever had a good story, and his presence in Forces made no sense either.
Also, the games that features these characters need to be not just good but also emphasize Sonic's cool factor while providing other characters with compelling stories of their own and fun gameplay that doesn't stray too far from what makes Sonic generally work. It's understandable when people get tired of the friends when their stories fall flat, the dialogue is boring, and their gameplay isn't up to par. Well-conceived characters can be used poorly. Tails and Knuckles are great by design, for example. Tails and Knuckles were awesome in Sonic 3 & Knuckles and the Adventure games. But then they sucked in Sonic Forces and Sonic Frontiers for the most part.
Knuckles, Shadow, and Blaze are my favorite characters by the way.
I like most of his friends, and despise their lack of use and such.
Sonic's friends often feel like when Mario enters a water level, as opposed to how they should feel like when you enter water in Rayman Origins. It should stay snappy and fast but change it to a degree.
There is often a slowness and clunky design which holds them back and when you're going slower and smelling the roses it only amplifies that some of the roses are decayed, just like the werehog in Sonic Unleashed. You're exposed to the bad for longer while exposed to the good for shorter for speed fans.
The issue stems from the people creating the games and comics. They give us just enough to like the side characters or become attached to them, before unceremoniously killing them off, abandoning them, altering major components of their characters (example: Sally suddenly becoming a lesbian for her dead childhood friend after 25 years of being Sonic's girlfriend), or violating the intended spirit and origins the creators of the characters had for them. It may sound hyperbolic, but this steady string of abandonment, re-shuffling, re-interpreting and outright character death borders on a form of mass emotional abuse thrust onto the fandom.
Sega knows how to get you interested enough in the characters to get you attached to them, and then with absolutely no more concern for the people who love and financially support their IP, turns them into hollow cash-grabs. There is absolutely no consistency to the character depictions, and people who like the way Shadow is now are going to clash with those who liked the older versions, thanks to that.
The fanbase, especially those of us who have been there from the start, have taken enough beatings to look at new characters as baited hooks for money that will eventually be yet another let-down or infuriating twist later.
To be fair, in the comics, it wasn't entirely their fault. Many of the characters were eliminated because of Ken Penders' little temper tantrum (seriously, he is by far the single most toxic person connected to Sonic; think about that for a second).
To add on to what you stated, the world building for Sonic IP is a complete clusterfuck. It's impossible to truly write and develop a ever growing cast, if no one can agree on the setting.
Mobius? A western creation, so games never use it.
Earth? No, because that has humans and no talking animals. They come from Sonic's world.
What's the name of Sonic's world? ..............................................................................He's from Earth.
That's to say nothing about major, earth shattering events being ignored. The Death Egg, the moon, the Black Arms invasion, the moon, Dark Giga, the moon, Eggman taking control of the planet, did I mentioned the moon?
@@ligtningdog6399
That reference of the moon that you mentioned was probably about the event from SA2 in which Eggman blew half of it up with the use of the space colony ARK's eclipse cannon.
Wait when did that Sally thing happen? I don't remember that. Pretty sure that's just a fan ship.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 From my limited knowledge, the Sally/Nicole relationship was plan that Ian (or at least someone in his writing staff) had for the post-reboot era of Archie comics. Since Sonic is official not allowed to be romantically involved with anyone, they wanted to jump into "that" bandwagon.
It's like the Geoffrey St John thing all over again.
I know what you mean. I like the characters, but there are just too many of them.
The biggest concern I had was there are now too many female characters. I usually have no issue with it, since it may compensating for the male cast. But there are too many of them now. Sticks, Shade, Trip, Tangle, Whisper…
A majority of new male characters become villains in the IDW comics, and there’s not a whole lot since the main villain focus is on Dr. Eggman.
I always found the hate for Sonic's friends especially weird because - and this might be a hot take - but Sonic is easily the LEAST interesting character in his own series. He's a classic "flat arc" Goku type of character and almost all of the most memorable Sonic moments are either focused on the effects he has on people's lives, or have nothing to do with him directly in the first place.
In a good story we need flat character arcs just as much as the others.
Sure when they're introduced, they won't develop into a good person and sure they won't develop into a bad person, but it's pretty much a good trope for the main character to just stay how they are from the start. They'll learn new tactics and abilities, and go through pains and losses, but deep down they will always know how they roll 🤟 That's why I look up to the flat character arc characters
@@ZenithintheMaking Definitely. My point isn't that Sonic shouldn't be a flat arc character, my point is that BECAUSE he is one, it's for the better that he has plenty of side characters, some passing and some permanent fixtures, to effect and bounce off of.
And that is the point. This is the most evident when he confronts Surge in the IDW comics on his morals; the typical boy scout monologue you hear from any stale anime protagonist.
In the games, I'd say it's the storybook series where this is the most prominent (considering the surprisingly dark undertones both the games actually had once you look between the lines).
The only time you could ever see Sonic being "not so flat" is when you compare him to "Flatter" characters like Mario or Zelda.
I think much of the hatred came well before the recent eras of Sonic, which, fair is fair, kinda DID drop the ball on the side characters.
See, you all probably know it by now, but for a while, Sonic had a MASSIVE spike in hatedom, he became THE punching bag for gamers everywhere, and everyone from ProJared to GameGrumps just kept slandering and slandering and SLANDERING the games. Even the good ones like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2! At best, some folks would concede that Sonics 1-3 (and knuckles), CD, and Mania are good, and PROBABLY might feel generous enough to give Generations a pass, but it often went from "it has merits but i dont personally like it" to "so actually these games are all as bad or close to as bad as Sonic 06", and it became a disingenuous mess.
One thing that always bothered me was how the creation of new characters would push older characters to the side
First there was Sonic, then he gets his friend Tails
Then you get his first rival, Metal Sonic
Then you get his second rival, Knuckles
Then you get his most iconic Rival, Shadow
Then you're reminded that characters like Espio exist in Soinonc Heroes
Then sonic Rush gives us another Sonic counterpart and one of the most uniquely designed, Blaze, who gets very little to do and even has her original lore retconned
Then there's Jet in Riders
Then there's Silver in 06
Then I think they stopped making new Sonic counterparts after that point and just focused mostly on Sonic as the only relevant and playable character in games like Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and etc. It has a sorta similar issue to Dragon Ball where Goku's rivals kept being overshadowed by new rivals Krillin > Tien > Piccolo > Vegeta and those overshadowed characters still stick around anyway to contribute very little in the grand scheme of things
Nintendo likes to share its limelight with other Mario characters and they become their own IP. Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Princess Peach have their own games. SEGA is bad at handling its IP, there is no Tails game, Amy, Knuckles, Blaze, etc. they are sidelined. Shadow had its own game but it was sad. SEGA should embrace Sonic’s friends and gameplay variety. SEGA needs to introduce multiplayer mechanics with characters being its own unique gameplay and synergy. To level up Sonic characters in a Destiny like game would be amazing.
Tails and the music maker, knuckles chaotix: are we a joke to you?
@@snowkitten3285 Yes it was.
I honestly don't care for the IDW exclusives, not because of the reason you said, but because they're canon, yet no one ever acknowledges their existence, apart from Sonic briefly mentioning Tangle once in one piece of dialogue in Sonic Frontiers. I just feel like their canonicity is wasted for no reason.
Never understood why everyone hated Sonic's friends.
No one complained about Goku's friends (most of the time)
No one complained about Mario's friends
DC or Marvel when it comes to friends so why is it a curse or automatically bad when Sonic gets his friends, if anything his friends make Sonic even more ironic XD
Metal Sonic fans waiting for Metal Sonic to be playable and relevant to the story in a main game: 👶🧒🧑🧓👴☠️
Sonic CD
@@snowkitten3285 you forgot the playable part
I rarely ever see or hear folks doing this anymore. It was heavily prevalent in 2009, but nowadays....not really.
Yea I mostly hear love for the characters now and wondering why some characters haven’t appeared in recent games like shadow.
@@michaeltaylor788 The problem is, the only thing people want is speed. If the character isn't fast like Sonic then it's immediately hated. However in a 3d game it's hard to due that without making the character a carbon copy of Sonic.
For example the developers found a way to make Blaze the Cat as fast as Sonic, but also standout in Sonic Rush. In Unleashed Blaze wasn't needed because there's a way to customize Sonic speed and control. Sonic Generations did something similar.
@@orangeslash1667 only a small amount of sonic fan hate the other characters they care more about story and character development when it come to them the people who hate them are just loud and use the internet to sound bigger than they really are.
@@michaeltaylor788 The general public doesn't care about story, they care going fast. Since some people have issues with the multiple play styles of SA 2. It gives them a reason to not like them.
@@orangeslash1667 nah the character are fine like I said before.
I fully agree. I did get into the franchise because of Sonic’s character, but Silver is my favorite character because of his interesting backstory, his kind and optimistic personality, and his powers. I agree that people may find gameplay in 06 annoying, but 06 did have a bunch of problems, and Project 06 did improve on Silver’s gameplay.
I do hope that Silver and some others do get some more spotlight in the games soon. And they don’t deserve all the hate thrown toward them.
Silver is such a cool character and I'm really hoping that we see him as well as other more in the future 😁
Unfortunately, some people are not intelligent and brainless and do nothing but criticize without even first inquiring about reality, unfortunately but fortunately we are not all like that.
which soundtracks did you use in this video? they sound great
Every song in this video is from the "Spark the Electric Jester 3" ost
@@SonicTheory96 thanks!
I've always liked Sonic's friend. But a lot of times the gameplay isn't handled well especially Big the Cat in Adventure. Sonic '06 had a lot of good ideas but due to rushed development the execution was terrible and at least a huge portion of Sonic ans have hated the idea of playing as multiple characters ever since.
Ironically Project '06 showed how the supporting cast should be handled but Sonic Team still haven't gotten out of the habit of rushing games that need more polish.
There's been a lot baffling decisions too. Big being clunky and boring in SA1 was the worst of it. Another example in SA2 having Eggman in Gamma style shooting platformer made sense. Putting Tails in one just to match Eggman's gameplay was a terrible idea and didn't work the way his SA1 gameplay did. Knuckles' Emerald Hunt was somewhat polarizing in SA1 but in SA2 they made the levels a lot bigger to the ire of the fanbase. But the bigger levels never bothered me in of itself save like two levels, it's the fact that the Emerald radar only tracks one Emerald shard/collectable at time that really drags down Knuckles and Rouge's gameplay. There was 0 reason for that.
Having a telekentic in Sonic '06 in Silver was an interesting idea, and grabbing debris and enemies with your psychic powers to throw was fun. But he was unnecessarily slow especially when the cutscenes showed his powers can give him a boost. He needed more than a groundpound move to stun enemies so they can be grab, calling his point bank slap with a terrible hitbox pitiful would be an understatement.
Ultimately the biggest problem is the lack of of time, effort, and money Sonic Team has been willing to put into developing the side characters, not the characters themselves.
I haven’t played Sonic much but I do enjoy watching gameplays and cutscenes online, what I’ve noticed is that the plot seems very repetitive for a while. Eggman comes up with another plan to cause trouble, and Sonic and his usual group go to stop him and than occasionally we search for the Chaos emeralds. Although I can’t complain much since I haven’t played much of the games, I definitely would love to see the game that invents a way out of eggmans story and more into either new villains or possibly an older enemy that hasn’t been mentioned in years. Or maybe a story that brings eggmans story to an end after many years, either he’s finally gone or he joins Sonic side as maybe an anti hero, similar to Shadow joining Sonic. Cause we’ve seen from time to time in other games when they are forced to work together that they could be a unique duo. Even if he’s not part of Sonic team his tale as the villain would stop finally.
Looks at title: Are we back to 2010s now?
I kinda feel like Sonic's friends hasn't been hated in long while ever since Blaze became popular since we are kinda pass now "Sonic is bad because they have different gameplay styles" and more "Sonic is bad because sega keeps mishandling franchise" x'D
I like most of sonics, friends, rivals and associates with some exceptions though they're more just annoyances to me like Cream and vanilla (though I love that Vector is down bad for Vanilla) but I still like that they exist
Well, I’m not a hardcore Sonic fan (stumbled on this video by accident). So, my problem with Sonic’s friends is that there are more than a casual fan like me can keep track of. I basically topped out when Cream the Rabbit was introduced.
Now are they hated by sonic fans..because I never seen that be the case..Usually by people who already say "Sonic games suck" so what is the point of hearing em out?
It’s mostly just because they’re cringe. Sonic as a franchise is cringe which is why the only people really into it are fans.
It’s stuck in this weird place where the writing and acting is clearly meant for young children, but young children aren’t into things like Sonic anymore. They’re into Fortnite, Snapchat etc.
I enjoyed Mania a lot because the annoying characters didn’t tell goofy Christmas cracker tier jokes constantly.
sonic's friends should play a bigger role. especially in 'Sonic and Mario at the Olympic Games'
Big the cat gameplay could actually be really fun like imagine using the fishing rod to swing around and keep your momentum going and belly flopping to gain height/kill enemies
I grew up with the Sonic Archie comics and I have no hate for the new characters in sonic’s universe. I just wish we could combine both worlds. It does bum me out that they just keep on ignoring the original stories of Mobius & the Acorn family. It’s great world building and adds a lot to sonics character. Sega could make a great game with the original Archie comics characters & of course include the new characters. It really surprises me they haven’t done it yet.
The shooting stages in SA2 is the biggest reason why people hated having multiple characters along with Sonic Heroes where we have to beat the 4 campaigns JUST TO BEAT THE GAME!!! I beat Sonic heroes. I don’t have a problem beating 4 campaigns but, some do have a problem with that.
Sonic's friends are literally the best part of the franchise.. without them, there'd be no reason to read the comics or watch the cartoons.. like, imagine if those were just gonna be Sonic Saves The Day Part 69420, that would get boring ngl.. plus, it's even more noticeable that the games where you only play as Sonic aren't as interesting as the games where you can also play as the others (with a few masterpiece exceptions, but those exceptions still make it a point to include the side characters as much as possible)
growing up my hottest platformer take was even: "i like Mario for the games, i like Sonic for the characters" and i still do think this is somewhat true..
It's cooler and better to have more friends than enemies
Dude, we need more Silver. My boi is so neglected, he didn't even appear in The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog april fool game 😭😭😭
People need to shut up and stop hating on Sonic's friends. >:/
I mean for goodness sake: Sonic wouldn't be who he is now without his friends anyways!
The simple reason is that sonic's friends in the 3D games always lead to annoyiing gameplay.
sonic fans want fast moving platforming. in sonic 2 and 3, extra characters had unique movesets in a fast paced platforming game.
in contrast, sonic adventuree, knuckles is a RNG scavenger hunt, amy about walking away from a simple robot in a boring and slow game mode. gamma is a spamfest shallows 3rd person shooter thing. big is fishing. if all the characters played like sonic's game mode, people whould have been fine.
adventure 2 had 1/3 of the game being the scavenger hunt, and 1/3 being gamma's gameplay, when people just wanted fast paced platforming.
sonic heroes got rid of the alternate game modes that people hated, but made you play the game 4x over with teams that required awkward mechanics. the 4 times were barely different too, so it really felt like playing the same game 4x.
shadow the hedgehog almost came close to that speedy platforming, but was mission focused and relied too much on guns. it was a weird game, people just wanted good speedy platforming in 3D.
sonic 06 was overall bad. the friends in that didn't particularly matter, because all game modes were terrible, and everyone was horribly implemented. you liked silver in that game, but most people hated everyone in that game.
people don't complain about sonic's friends in the 2D platformers... because they play as they should in a sonic game. amy in the advance games, origins plus and superstars plays waaaaay better than amy in adventure 1. she plays like an alternate character in the same game mode as sonic. nobody hated cream in advance 2 and 3, but weren't fans of her in heroes.
it's just that sega team insists on not giving the fans the simple thing they want.
look at unleashed, does the same annoying thing, with only 1 character playable. but playing as sonic, it's a runner, and playing as werehog, it's a brawler. people aren't playing sonic for a brawler, and forcing two game modes like that in a game rubs people the wrong way just like forced stealth sections in action games.
generations and forces force you to play alternate modes of sonic instead of just sticking to a 3D game and a 2D game separately
Nailed it!
I maintain that Sonic fans and his detractors don't actually know what they want
I hope they show them again, I always thought it felt awkward and creepy when mist of tyem disappeared and tyen only Tails, Knuckles and Amy cane back for YEARS!.. Like it was as if they killed off all the others...
This conundrum is largely what got me interested, and ironically uninterested in the Sonic series.
"Oh look, a large cast of colorful characters! Cool! What are their roles in the overall story?"
"Uhhh... well beyond Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Rouge, and sometimes Cream, everyone else is sort of.. one-and-done type characters."
"Oh. Well that uh... that kinda sucks.."
Because those people just want Sonic and Egg- sorry, Robotnik only on a loop. Even Mario got Luigi.
I grew up with Archie Sonic comics. They were a mess. People who think they were better than the IDW Sonic comics...what are you smoking? The IDW comics are much better written, have better and more consistent artwork, and its original characters fit into the Sonic universe so much better. I could see Tangle being a playable character in the games. If you count the mobile games, she technically already is. For Archie's characters, you've got Sonic with a mustache, a dozen Knuckles clones with slight variations to their design, green Sonic, and a chipmunk with boobs. Also, with IDW, we don't have to deal with weird love triangles or any of the weird/uncomfortable stuff Ken Penders slipped in.
Haaaaaahahhahaha they probably were smoking while reading
Kind of a hot-take to say they're all hated. From my experiences I've seen people rat on Amy first, but these days all the weight (...Heh) goes to Big.
Honestly, when it comes to like Sonic games, I do prefer the casts not consisting of only Sonic, Tails, Eggman and Eggman's henchmen, it's why I don't think Sonic Colors for console was the best, but really liked the handheld version more, because it brought all of Sonic's friends together. Even Sonic Lost Worlds was a hit and a miss for me, because even though Amy and Knuckles appeared in Lost Worlds, they didn't make much of an impact on the overall story. Also the Boom era was also weird, because obviously they focused on the main four, but it was an alternate world, where we only see Shadow and Vector appearing, but nobody else. So many characters were in a blank space for awhile.
Also it's funny, IDW has become such a success that Ian Flynn wrote for Frontiers and made the comic characters canon, even though they haven't made a canon appearance in a actual canon Sonic game other than a mention from Sonic.
However I am still wanting and desiring the actual return of the Knothole Freedom Fighters, plus introducing Mighty and Ray into modern games canon with updated modern designs, like they did with the Chaotix, who were the last classic era characters to be introduced in the modern era with Heroes.
Games? Comics? I’m just here for the cartoons. 😅
02:25 what movie is that??
Well for one Sega mistreats Sonic with not seeming to get a handle on what to do with him. This happens more exponentially with is ever growing enturage of "friends" that barely do anything with osme of them not appearing in any media for years on end. I dont think people hate these characters, just that Sega refuses to do anything competent with them while piling more and more ontop of a bloated cast.
Personally, Sonic is one of my least favorite Sonic characters (not that I hate him; I just love everyone else). Sonic Adventure 1+2, Sonic Heroes, and Shadow the hedgehog were my childhood. Unfortunately, I feel like I'll get to feel that again with new games, as they've dropped the importance of the other characters/different ways characters play. Everytime I've tried to pick up a new Sonic Game over the past decade, it's mostly been meh.
Frontiers was fun for a bit, but I've barely thought about it since to week I played it
Why does everyone think that we hate the other characters
? Seriously sonic fans love almost every character.
I totally agree there where 2 types of fans fr original sega Dreamcast fans & fans that grew up with sonic adventure 2 those eras & advance where the time I grew up n agree that all of sonics friends where great additions for the most part and I think they need to make more games like hero’s, advance & adventure series I grew up on Archie comics n sonic games with a huge cast I hate how much split there is in the series rn cuz it feels like they keep trying to feed fans of the original sega games n try to go us giving u sonic 06 style games or Sonic 20 year anniversary or colors is keeping the sonic adventure 2 style games fans fed n they r actually starving that lack of switchable characters & chaos has just made me give up on the franchise I have hope maybe one day they’ll pick up that formula but Sonics never been the same after O6 & unleashed hero’s was the last good game
No body hate sonic friends. They just hate the fact their no shine or deep dive to them. Like why Amy like sonic? Why tails a friend of Sonic? What happened to all Sonic’s friends families?…etc. also SEGA first give them their own game play then change it to be a copy of Sonic gameplay. Also SEGA did not give them time for break out of Sonic fame circle. Lastly the fans hate sonic friends games because they were bad, and SEGA can’t write for them.
He needs a reboot
no no no, you don't understand. They aren't hated. That's all.
the problem is that there is not enough Silver
Only friends outside of tails, knuckles, and Amy are hated imo. The core three plus Amy are always welcomed
I just wish I could see a modern version of Mighty and Ray again. They did it in the Archie comics and it was really cool, but for some reason it seems sega is dead set on making classic sonic and his world a dimension rather than a younger version of modern sonic and seeing as the only time we’ve seen Ray and Mighty in recent years is in that “dimension” I highly doubt will see a modern take on these characters again
Luckily We’ll most likely be seeing more of Sonic’s friends in the next game since frontier’s dlc acted as a testing ground for their game play mechanics. We all know what that means 😊
I loved Sonic Heroes and I even enjoyed Shadow the Hedgehog and if the loading screens in 06 weren't so frustrating I wouldn't have minded it
This argument never made a lot of sense to me. Mario can have many uniquely beloved characters and antagonists, or any other franchises that expands the universe but it’s damaging to Sonic?? Clearly Sega took it to heart. Which they shouldn’t frankly. You covered everything in the video what made the franchise more special with other characters. Which further made it hard to wrap my head around why this complaint exists. This video took words out of my mouth. At least more playable characters are gradually making a comeback after so long. There’s always gonna be characters we don’t like, but being shaft away nearly entirely is just an empty boring feeling.
Lacking of tails sidekicks with Sonic getting disasters even more LoL
We're causing our own extinction. That's a big problem.😔
8:30
The greatest fear a villan or a Billie ever face,a calm angry mother God that cómic page kill me and vanilla face say it all lol.
Bro i miss blaze bro glad cream is back but no blaze damn
Let's be honest here. If the series only starred Sonic and Eggman on their own. It would've gotten stale a lot sooner. To me, he's always worked better when he's had others to bounce off of.
Oh no Sonic has so many friends and I have none 😢 (that's what I hear lol)
Based on my own research and my personal opinion, Sonic's friends themselves are not the problem. It was how SEGA handled them, and they handled them horribly. In terms of trying to fix a character like Amy Rose, when you look at the Amy Rose character on paper, it's NOT a bad idea. A hedgehog love interest that looks up to Sonic. But she thinks that Sonic is invincible. Explain why. Give her more depth. She never seemed to learn from her mistakes from the Adventure Era. So, do just that. Maybe she used to listen to overexaggerated stories about Sonic when she was younger. Like Sonic is this invincible Superhero, and all of the bad guys like Dr. Eggman are just weaklings. But when she finally meets Sonic, she actually realizes that that's not the case. And starts to learn that she could get herself hurt if she's not careful.
First of all, it's important to read the instruction or guide for playing as big the cat in sa1. Yes! Must read guide to play big better. Don't skip it, you illiterate db fan! I know there are people that don't like the boring fishing gameplay because it's not as fast paced as sonic, but that's the neat part. You don't get to lose your breath from going at high speed because you're taking a break from that with big's fishing gameplay.
Second, in order to REALLY get close to understanding the sonic series, you must become a weeb/weeaboo and understand the original Japanese side of the franchise because sonic from both west and east are not the same and neither are the interpretations. In game stories and lore, they tend to get localized, mistranslated and misconceptualized.
Third and most important part, sonic isn't about quantity like his plumber rival, it's about quality (and substance). The real problem with his friends isn't because of the numbers or if they're bad, it's how they're handled that is the problem. Having multiple characters with multiple respective places with different ways in life can lead to whole different worlds of exploration and expandable world building. Both lore wise and gameplay wise. Yes! gameplay just needs to be engaging and well executed. (Story also has to be well executed.) I also think that the cast should not be in stories when it doesn't concern them. I know people may want these casts to be as relevant as they want. But which would you rather have for the characters? Not bring them back to play a more suitable role for them? Or always have them be around and be a cash grabbing stable of always being with sonic to be relevant to the point where they barely have any reason to be there?