The Downfall of Doctor Who Animations?
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- The Missing Episode Doctor Who animation range is back - but it's different. Today, I discuss why I'm just not enjoying the latest animations.
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The Macra Terror's backgrounds were hand painted as well. My friend Graham did a lot of them and it was great to see the original paintings at his house. Thanks Josh.
Graham did an incredible job!
Graham Bleathman's Thunderbirds paintings and cutaways have left an indelible impression on me since childhood
“This guy stinks” is engrained in my mind forever now.
It’s iconic
Made me turn the video off after about 10 minutes to be honest and I was kind of enjoying it otherwise. So awful when overused to that extent.
Toymaker and web of fear are bad but i dont see whats wrong with the others
@@JoshSnaresit’s an annoying earwig now
My biggest issue with the Celestial Toymaker is why didn't they get Dinopuff to just do it? Their version of Part 1 was perfection.
They were working on the official release WAY before Dinopuff posted any of their Celestial Toymaker
@@JoshSnares blast, because my word a literal 17 outshone them... And they were flying solo.
Dinopuff is destined for greatness. Of this I am sure.
Thank you for everything you do Josh. 🥰
@JoshSnares @@TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat Have you seen Mel's A Meeting on the Common animation? It's utterly terrific, of course (but I might be biased).
Dinopuff's version is amazing.
@@TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat i mean if he contacts them they might work with him to do a more favorable release
Wake up babe, new Josh Snares video
Let’s goooooo
-just dropped 😂
@@JoshSnares it could make more sense for these animations to not be released individually maybe apart the collection release that they’re doing
Less than 20 seconds in and I’m already smiling - that Nyssa wallpaper is awesome!
My personal favorite was whatever was used for the moonbase, like it's so good
I always felt there there was a walk through alcove linking the outer doors to the inner doors of the Tardis that was just never seen …🤔🤷♂️
I just thought they're not the same doors. They both just mark the location of two sides of the portal.
There are some episodes (like The Daleks) where you can see the inner doors leading straight to the outside
Jodie Whittaker’s TARDIS had the alcove for entry with no additional doors to the console room. I figured the classic console room had doors that went with the alcove giving the console room an extra layer of protection from the outside.
Davies and Moffet did away with the alcove and doors leaving only the external doors figuring the second set of doors and alcove were not needed probably. Chibnal put the alcove in at least.
personally I think they should go back to just animating the missing episodes from a story instead of all of them, for example if the wheel in space was animated they could skip out on animating parts 3 and 6 and use the money saved to improve the rest of the episodes
Yeah, I'd prefer that - but they have to release them to a wider audience than just us!
Also, Doccy Who Michael Craze Appreciation Society needs to happen.
Feel like it would get inappropriate FAST 😅
@@JoshSnares yeah to being real inappropriate with Mr Craze!
Please don't call it "Doccy Who".
@@johnnymain777 😂 you’re kidding, right?
*sad Elliot Chapman noises*
Rob and I collaborated many years ago on a few Doctor Who South Park animations, where I did the character designs. It was a hoot to see them moving! Shout out to Rob if he sees this!
i really adore what they're going for stylistically but before that Celestial Toymaker trailer was released i was also young and naïve, thinking Peter Purves' face wouldn't be gerrymandered, but such is life
We can never win 😞
I could never watch anything that did _that_ to Peter Purves's face. Sacrilege.
I love Josh. It gives me joy to see him revel in his passion for Dr Who.
Good to have you back! Are you planning on doing anymore of your big finish animations? Those are amazing!
Maybe but not anytime soon lol, they take a lot of time
@@JoshSnares or why not recreate some 60s missing episodes?
out of the first 34 Patrick Troughton episodes; only 7 remain. its such a shame that we miss out on so much of his early work. the first complete story is Tomb Of The Cybermen… meaning we don’t have a single Ben & Polly story in its entirety.
Josh Snares is Back with another video!!! Rejoice!!! Looking forward to watching this! :D
😎😎
😁😁
The animations being made specifically for Josh would explain a lot 😂❤
Everything is about ME
I did backgrounds and character designs on The Reign of Terror, Tenth Planet and Moonbase animations many many years ago for Planet 55. It was one of the most fun projects I've ever been involved in and everyone in the studio was having a great time, with Gary's obsession with getting the exact placement of the plastic tennis balls right on the Cybermen, and people throwing themselves around the office so we could rotoscope them for Cyberman death scenes. Obviously the strange head rigging on Reign was quite bizarre and if I was supreme ruler everything would have been fully 2D animated all the time with no shots ever reused, but the time just wasn't there, sadly. And if I was in charge it would never have come out on time anyway and the studio would have died within a month!
I haven't watched many of the recent animated recreations but some of the ones you showed in this video look shocking..!
Love, love, love your work! The detail you added was just beautiful. Great to hear your insight!! 💕
Speaking of Stephen, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Tales of the Tardis episode with The Time Meddler. I found it a very sincere and pleasant tribute to Hartnell and his era, and finally gave some closure to two often-overlooked companions.
Loved, loved, LOVED Tales of the TARDIS. I really need to get around to making a video about it...
Josh can’t legally access TotT as they’re not British.
Doctor Who fandom is rough and gnarly, but Josh Snares is the exception. I don't think Josh realises how much people love them. Simply the best. ✨
that is very sweet, thank you!
Glad you're back! I semi recently started watching Classic Who for the first time and a big part of that was because your videos kept popping up on my recommended. Glad to be here for a new video :)
Oh thank you!
U should watch Josh’s 3 part documentary on the missing episodes it’s fantastic and felt well researched if u like behind the scenes information
Good point. The popularity and hype of the animations has died and I did wonder if it’s because the inconsistent quality.
Also, how on earth did you get Underwater Menace already down here?! Can’t find it anywhere! Nor Collection S20 for that matter.
Imported it from the UK, babes!
Legit, the Michael Craze character design for these animations has been a pet peeve of mine.
Two main things that are less of a time crunch for the teams doing these animations. Sun & Moon Studios, the team behind The Macra Terror animation, apparently struggled with the short deadline and unfortunately dropped continuing doing these Animations (PLEASE COME BACK FOR THE MYTH MAKERS, PLEAAAAASE), and with The Evil of the Daleks animation, the deadline went from 12 months to 18 months. Both Sun & Moon Studios and the BBC Studios team did a marvellous job with their respective releases, but having a longer timeframe to work with helps with everything.
Another would be getting a team together to assist Rob. I love Rob's work, both before and during these animations, but the crushing workload and demand definitely needs to be eased if we ever want to see Rob do another one of these animations. If he knows anyone that he trusts with the animation, set designing, modelling, texturing, you name it, get them and get them to find others to trust as well.
Reconstructions are the way to go. No missing scenes from missing episodes as the cleaning in the MACRA TERROR.
How wonderful to have you back again!! I thought you made many valid points both for and against what we have had. I was fine with the Underwater Menace one. It was nicely done and didn't seem too egregious to me. The Celestial Toymaker one is a potential worry as I really did dislike Web 3. But the odd 3D style might work for the whackiness of the story. I guess we shall see!
I am a big fan of 60s Who, particularly the Troughton era.
I love the animations, but I have been put off by some of the artistic choices made.
I agree that they should just expand on the sets, etc rather than make significant changes.
I'm old enough to remember the BBCi flash animations for Death Comes to Time so obviously even the worst animations are more sophisticated than that but when I saw the clips from the Celestial Toymaker I did experience a flash, joke intended, of nostalgia for those days. The artwork at least looked like the characters and it had a simple charm.
Not entirely serious but I think they should try and make the animations look as close to the episodes as time and money will allow.
A very interesting a well-made video as always. I personally am not a fan of the direction they've taken the animations in either. Keep it up!
Thank you :)
Thank you Josh. Another great Video. Happy New Year by the way.
I’m one who has always been indifferent to the animated reconstructions of missing episodes cause I can see their attempt to give us the episodes back in some way but I’m one who likes seeing it as it aired that’s why I started with Jon Pertwee when I started my classic era rewatch cause all of his run going forward is available to watch cause I just love watching the show in general even though Matt is my favorite doctor I can still get enjoyment out of all the doctors and jumping around from animation style to animation style may not have been a good thing in hindsight a more uniform style may have a better decision not that any of the animators are bad but having a more uniform style even it it different for each doctor it would’ve helped with consistency and I thank u for discussing the classic era cause most whotubers don’t discuss it it’s why to me your the keeper of the classic era in a good way
I loved the animation style of the very first ones put out (mostly Hartnell's), but then something happened right after Troughton's Invasion. The quality took such a deep dive that I was no longer interested in watching even though Troughton is my favorite Doctor. I LOATHE how they drew TWO. If they had done a better job (just not making his hair look like Mr. Spock's) I would now be the happy owner of his animated stores just like I loved the heck out of the Target produced novelizations until they fell apart from reading them over and over.
Great Video! Personally I think it's hard to say how the Animation range can improve in its current form, I must say I do miss the lightning from releases of evil and so on, if they ever do daleks masterplan (chances are they might do it as two releases, which honestly, I am fine with) I think a story like this really needs the lightning from previous Releases back. Besides, it all stories we have left are historicals or some of the rather less liked sci-fi ones (space pirates, wheel in space) or some which most people are meh on. Some may say the approach behind the 2010 Animation should have been followed up. I personally disagree, while I think it benefits any of the stories which is almost complete (like Web, like Underwater), I think for the rest going with the approach we have seen since 2016 is the way to go. Although I do wish we had one style instead of multiple different ones, I am very curious how this range continues, especially since some harder ones are left to do, I think an animation can only improve middle stories like Space Pirates or Wheel. Meanwhile, stories like the massacre or the highlanders may need to be some of the last ones, since I do think they probably will do a lot of the historicals as 3D Animations rather than 2D and that style really needs some work, then again that team might also just do something else. What ever the future holds I am very curious to see it, hopefully we get more Season 3 Animations and the last few Throughton Stories
a lot of people forget about the Savages - brilliant story to animate.
@@darrenhale2351 Oh yeah true! I think it might be one of the next hartnell animations, at least I am guessing!
I haven't minded having more than one production company working on the releases. It means we can get releases more often. I just wish they spent more time on the likenesses. I don't enjoy them if I can't see the actor they are meant to be.
I say this every time Josh and I hope you don’t get tired of hearing it but great job as always!
it’s joshy time
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“Welcome Back Josh - All Is Forgiven!” As a designer I totally agree about the importance of lighting!
Think I’m the only person that loves Toymaker - the imagery haunted me as a kid.
I’m still excited to see Master Plan animated one day… Hopefully well! Until then I’ll just carry on mooching round my local Mormon church 😉
Not sure if I was me or not, but when I watched Underwater Menace, there was fringing happening around the character. On the main menu, you could see fringing around them a badly cut out png. I could see that in episode too. Also, between frames, sometimes I was seeing scan line, like it was interlaced or something. I have never before noticed that. It is possible it was due to me watching a UK blu ray on a region free player in the US. But again, I'd never noticed any glaring issues like this before. So, I going to guess its either the compositing, or, for some reason, it just didnt play right on my blu ray player? Either way, it was very distracting, and it took me out of the episode entirely, noticing the characters fringing and scan lining every so often.
Hmmm, I didn't notice it. You might be right though!
It's an introduction. I will say that. But it is scant replacement for the real thing. The thing I miss most is seeing that early stuff for the first time. Being old and irascible enough to recall 'The Five Faces of...' - It was like a glimpse into some mysterious TV history. The same feeling I still get from those Quatermass recordings. And when 'Lost in Time' came out (played on a disc drive in my tower - watched on a CRT) I made the contents last literally weeks. I couldn't let go of it. Perhaps it's an age thing. Let's face it, my brother dimly recalls the back end of Season 6. He also needs a hip replacement....
Which is ridiculous in a way in that the BBC should never have used those tapes and erased or threw out DW at all! I mean we still have shows from the 1950s and 60s, lost time? Not so much but different, yes. Thank God the US never did that kind of stuff and we still have STAR TREK, LOST IN SPACE, LAND OF THE GIANTS and hundreds of others.
@@charlesmento5968 They did with Johnny Carson’s Tonight show apparently. NBC erasing most of Carson’s content led to him having more control of the show for the remainder of his tenure.
I personally think the should go back to the macra terror design, I feel really invested because it feels 3d, is there a reason that was just a one off?
Sun and Moon did the character animation for that, and they just had a different approach. I preferred their style too!
13:43 What about the Macra Terror?
I love these animations. But I feel like you are right. They range in quality range WILDY. I want more but I personally like the black and white (unprofitable) ones more. I don't mind the color ones but I feels like the quality went down when they added color (with a few notable acceptions). Give the teams working on these 15% more time and money. And they might all be as good as Power of the Daleks.
Ngl the animation style for the celestial toymaker is growing on me. Like you said the original can be a snoozefest at times (probably because of the lack of visuals and that serial relies HEAVILY on visual storytelling).
Also dinopuffs recreation of episode 1 is incredible. Really hope he keeps doing more animations like that.
Hi Josh! Kinda related question: I'm considering buying the animated episodes on Blu-Ray, but I'm also collecting all the "The Collection" releases. Do you think the animated episodes will be included once the respective seasons get released, or should I buy the individual releases for the animated episodes as well?
Also, great video as always! Keep it up! :D
Hello! So far, they've been including the completed animations (eg: season 17 Shada) - So if you're happy to wait for the Collections, I'd suggest that! Depends how patient you are :)
@@JoshSnares I'm not a super patient guy, buuut my pocket might be thankful if I wait 😅 Thanks Josh!
I think that the original Macra prop, if you made it more organic, but chunky, would be a lot more terrifying as a 3D animated model.
To me, remembering some of the earlier releases (the original telesnap reconstruction of Underwater Menace, the original Power of the Daleks, etc), how much of this isn't the animation team(s), but is instead the powers that be (AKA the BBC)?
Woof! I haven't gotten the Underwater Menace up here in the US yet, but it looks like 70s Scooby Doo quality from those stills you've shown! 😂
I enjoyed the animation of Celestial Toymaker that a fan did of the complete episode 1. It used computer animation, but was very engaging. I’m surprised they didn’t use him for this new release as it was presumably cheap, but very effective.
If episode 1 is ever found, will Jackie Lane's soaking by Joey be chopped out of that also?
For me personally my favourite animation style (and team) is Planet 55 because for me their work especially for The Tenth Planet and The Moonbase is like what Josh said in a previous video ‘it’s like the tele-snaps come to life’ which I agree with
I have to agree. In some cases in my DW marathon I've watched telesnap recons over the recons as I've felt at least you're seeing what was transmitted.
You are such a pedantic, nit-picking overly critical geek, and this is why I love you,
omg you got me in the first half
hahaha sorry, I just REALLY love your stuff@@JoshSnares
I have to agree with your thoughts on this.
Another great video, thanks Josh. The Macra Terror and Menace animations made me reappraise my low opinion about both stories and I really enjoyed both of them, especially Menace. Still can’t see past those awful arms on Fury though, so disappointing and something very basic to get right in my most sought after re-release. Good points too about the lighting and scene composition in the better animations, but I did not notice them missing from Menace too much. Hope someone will do The Highlanders properly now.
Even though I enjoyed underwater menace quite a lot I feel it’s a definite step back compared to some of that team’s previous work. Your comments about the lack of lighting and shading really hits on a good portion on what is wrong with it. With just a couple of extra months work I’m sure it could have been avoided. Rob sadly not being brought back due to him falling out with one of the higher ups is unfortunate. Hopefully someone is able to smooth things over so he can come back in future. Sadly going by the lack of polish it also looks like the budget has been slashed. It looks a bit lower budget than others. Whether it’s down to the new funding model having less money or simply been allocated less money because it’s the underwater menace I’m not sure but if it’s the former it might be problematic going forward especially as the animations are only going to get harder once you get passed the likes of smugglers, savages,myth makers, wheel and space pirates.
The celestial toymaker I’m mixed on. The likenesses don’t look good at all. However the shot in the trailer with joey the clown trying to walk along the board really got my interest. Looks like they are going for a surreal reimagining approach. Considering how cheap and nasty looking the original looked I’m actually not against going mad with it and trying to make it more surreal and make the sets a bit more expensive. If they tried this on say the massacre it absolutely would not have worked but toymaker the surrealism kind of fits the story. As for the 3d style it looks better than web of fear but I need to see more of it than the 30 second trailer that we have seen. Im not against stories being done in 3d as I feel some stories may struggle to get done in 2d but I feel they have a long way to go before they get given the keys to do something more complex or difficult like highlanders.
I know some have said why didn’t they just get dinopuff but they were already well into production by the time his work came to the BBC’s attention. He also had zero professional experience (as good as his toymaker was it was still a fan thing and not professional) and he was also 17 and still at school at the time. Being realistic there was no chance they were hiring him at that time and even if they did he would not have been put in any sort of charge for him to influence the look and feel of it regardless how good his version was. Say what you will about about the people working on the animations especially the likes of Chloe greich who is overseeing the toymaker animation but they have had years of experience professionally before being placed in these positions of being in charge of these productions. He has a bright future. His meeting on the common is excellent and it offers professional experience to him and so that is at least a stepping stone to get noticed and hired by the bbc.
As for what I want going forward well the only thing I really want outside of some historical animations is the animations to have more time and money allocated to them. The animators are all mega talented however they are definitely not given enough time or compensated enough for their hard work. The unmovable strict deadlines makes their work suffer sometimes and affects quality of work. I know some have said be more like the originals but seeing as it’s a different medium and with the exclusion of the soundtrack it’s pretty much a new version I’m ok with deviating from what was originally there. What works in live action doesn’t necessary work in animation so sometimes changes are necessary. I’m also ok with them to carry on animating episodes that exist. It may seem a waste to us fans who have no use for them but to streamers and broadcasters who want a consistent viewing experience in a colour widescreen format it’s essential. It’s my understanding that without these streamers and broadcasters these releases are no longer viable so animating the whole thing is unfortunately necessary.
It annoyed me they got Jamie's costume wrong- should have been the double tartan jobbie
As usual, Josh has hit the nail on the head. The remaining animations need a sufficient budget and some consistent design protocols. They also need to churn them out at a rate faster than the current glacial speed. I am afraid that this will not happen unless and until the classic Who fans make their presence and their buying power well known to the BBC and Disney+. Nothing is going to happen without some pressure and noise.
Personally wow I didn’t even notice how Steven looked in The Celestial Toymaker animation. Looks almost like a picture taken from the original Star Trek.
I seem to remember their was an interview with Rob Ritchie which I believe hinted at some kind of falling out with the BBC team
Yeah that was my interview with him! 😂
I've been checked out of Doctor Who since 2020. Without a way to access the new episodes, I have no way to (legally) watch them, and, with them now throwing their lot in with a company I do my best not to support, who have already ruined one franchise I love (Disney and Star Wars), I don't see a relationship between me and Doctor Who any more.
With that being said. It still pleases me to see the animations continue. I have high hopes for the range. I hope they're successful. I hope they're so successful, in fact, that we get original animations. Like Dreamland, but for Classic Who, or even older New Who.
Who wouldn't love more Nine and Rose?
But this is me wishing success on those creating the animation, not those in charge. I hope the animators get the budget they deserve, like you said.
No-one with a brain believes any of the nonsense you’ve spouted here.
The invasion was one of the best animations
I watched the Season 4 animations on the Iplayer and I think they look good honestly. I like the style they go for, especially Macra and Faceless Enemies. The cartoony style they go for really fits the format and I like how the hair has more shape to it than Evil of Daleks. Sometimes I could tell that assets weren’t rendered in the highest of quality so my main request would be to try to keep everything in 4k without pixelating if possible. Also sometimes the more simple movements can be a little stiff like walking for example but that’s more so a nitpick than criticism.
I just like having the stories available to watch, really made me grow to love the second doctor a lot more thanks to actually having his stuff to watch (The reconstructions are unwatchable in my opinion) I’m really excited for the Highlanders whenever they get around to it.
so much happier to have them, in any state, than not. So much more accessible than telesnap recons or just the audio!
Another great video, Josh. Evil is my favourite as well, its really a good watch, with Faceless a close 2nd. Following Web & Galaxy, sorry these really put me off from future animations.
Faceless! I haven’t seen anyone rate that one so highly, love to see it get love
@JoshSnares I've always enjoyed Faceless and I found the lighting of the animation quite moody (IMO). I've also Fan Edited Evil to a 90min omnibus but also have the full eps as well as on my Plex server. Contemplating doing same for Faceless.
As someone who first watched the 2nd Doctor after buying the Invasion DVD years ago and started my love for his era, i'm grateful for that one being made.
Since then i've picked up quite a lot of his era animations, alongside the Invasion, the Moonbase was a good one, more recently picked up Macra Terror and Evil, both of which are fantastic.
Fury and Faceless ones i'm glad they exist, as I would never watch without the release but I wish they had been made to the other standards.
It's a shame to think there's some that are low quality/or different design choices to my preference which mean i'll never buy them.
Personally, not a fan of the full 3D attempt, and the lighting on the underwater Menace makes it look 'cheap' from my viewpoint.
i wish they had used the same animation style for the classic who ones they used on either scream of the shalka or the infinite quest featuring 10 and martha on a side note i want more doctor who media featuring the version of the doctor wfrom scream of the shalka i really enjoyed that doctor's attitude throughout i saw parts of 10's now your going to pay attitude and parts of 12's stubbornness
I'm a Web 3 defender lol... and I hope I'll like Celestial Toymaker too (I like the stuff they're doing with the Toymaker's realm, and hope they go all the way, doing stuff that just wasn't possible in the 60's)
SOMEONE has to like Web of Fear, and I'm happy people do! :)
@@JoshSnares Yea, I mean, I do _get_ the criticisms, and agree to some extent, but they're things that I can personally look past. Celestial Toymaker definitely looks to be an improvement. It's nice to have respectful disagreements about experiences of media, and I respect that you always have that upfront with your videos :)
the only classic who animation that i have seen that i truly had a issue watching was the 4th doctors shada and mainly do to the jarring switching back and forth from actual footage parts and animated parts they should have animated all of it then added the parts of the actual episode that they had as a bonus feature for comparison and what was up with the newer live action end bit with older tom baker in a tardis control room recreation and in a recreation of his outfit that really confused me and took me out of it as it feels like it had nothing to do with that episode
Something about the celestial toymaker's new style feels like they're trying to make Doctor Who in the style of Star Wars the Clone Wars, which in theory I don't hate, but something about it feels like it falls short. Maybe it'll be better once I see the actual episodes.
The animations do seem to be in a tricky spot right now. On one hand, I will be grateful to get any continuation of the range (especially with the period we briefly thought they were done). On the other, it does seem like for whatever reason (money, interest) the quality is a little lower for these last 2. I’m a little more okay with it for Toymaker and Menace, but it’s hard to imagine it would go down well with Marco, Myth Makers, or Dalek Masterplan. Big respect though to all those putting in so many hours!
I TOTALLY agree about Michael Craze!! Having only come to Classic Who about 6 years ago, I was devastated when I found out how few live episodes featuring that gorgeous man still existed. 😪
The animation has been all over the place with all of them but at least they all have a similar vibe- 2D, flash looking animations. There are definitely some “this guy stinks” bits but they’re all part of a goofy family. The 3D ones irks me solely because it tanks the matchy matchy vibe, but that’s just me being picky
For me it’s a constant war between “be grateful for what you get considering the animated shows get .02 budget and focus and it’s for just classic who people” and “but shouldn’t you be allowed to push for more from such a big company and iconic franchise?”
Totally with you re Michael Craze.
Isn't the point of the interior/exterior Tardis doors that it's all super-advanced and so, therefore, magic? It just reminds of a UFO case where a driver and his passenger saw something different on the road. One saw the UFO. The other... saw a bus.
You made a really strong case for keeping 3D backgrounds, but to make the case for 2D backgrounds: it's more immediately believable to me that these 2D characters exist within that space. The composting on previous animations usually avoided issues with this though, and the impressiveness of that can't be undersold. I really loved The Underwater Menace's animation, it gave me a newfound appreciation for the story but I agree with your criticisms, though I'm not sure much could recapture the sheer excitement of sitting down for The Evil of the Daleks' animation for the first time and how impressive that felt.
I really hope that the next animation this team take on is The Myth Makers, my head tells me it'll probably be The Highlanders, but Vicki is my favourite companion and I find the story a lot of fun. I wish they kept her on longer but I'd love to have a shiny new version of Vicki's departure.
I know most people compared the Toymaker animation to the TellTale games, but personally, I think it fits. The story is very imaginative and abstract, and I think the animation lends itself to that style perfectly. I get what the team were trying to do with the Web of Fear, but I feel they've learned their lesson there. The animations, in my opinion, should find a balance between what was originally broadcast (from what little we have) and the team's art style. Expound on what came before and make it feel fresh. Experiment and find the best way to convey the original story for a modern audience. That is what I hope they'll do with future reconstructions.
Love TellTale Games! Sam and Max and Back to the Future the Game are my go-to games from that company. And that's a great way to put it in terms of how the missing episode animations should be made. Having that balance between trying to stick with the original source material and expanding on it creatively. Animation is a art form after all and experimenting with it can lead to some pretty fantastic results.
this is absolute cope
I for one would totally be in favour of a Telltale style Doctor Who game though
@@TokuWaffle Me Too! In fact, the Adventure Games proved Doctor Who can work in the Point and Click Game format.
Well, in spite of less stellar animation lately, I'm just glad that these releases are still happening, especially since it seemed for a hot minute that we weren't getting any more. I don't want to say that I don't care about the quality of the animation but I'll take what I can get. I honestly don't know how they can improve this without a larger budget. But we must expect that the budget will most likely never increase by much. Still, uniformity in style would be nice(if the style is really cool) but seems unlikely. I'm not getting any younger, so I just want to be able to add all the remaining stories to my video collection while I can.
Great video. A uniformed style would be great and a slightly bigger budget. But I’m just grateful we get them at all.
Only eleven more stories (8 Hartnell , 3 Troughton). left to do after CT. Two a year could last us til the end of the 2020s
For me, I’m just glad we’re getting the animations. These have enabled me to rediscover Patrick Troughton’s Doctor. The only other stories I need to get are The Dominators, The Mind Robber, and The Krotons.
The War Games will take a while as the DVD is over $100 on Amazon and eBay.
The Highlanders, The Wheel in Space and The Space Pirates are the only stories that don’t have any animations at all. So I will look forward to seeing them should they come. Then I can have Patrick Troughton’s entire run, and enjoy it.
To be honest, I don't mind the animation as seen on the trailer of The Celestial Toymaker, it seems like they got most of the characters right (apart from Steven) this time around. It does seem rather stilted in movement at times, but it's alright. I will buy the animations still so I can have something that does somewhat resemble the episodes, the only one I haven't bought is the Web of Fear because I'm noping that animation. Telesnap is fine enough for me.
I would like the Space Pirates or the Highlanders to be animated next, I know that they may not be a well liked episode and that we have had loads of Troughton episodes animated but then we can get a Season 6/4 Blue ray collection box set. I know we still need the Smugglers for Season 4 but there was that news of it being animated alongside the underwater menace if that is still happening considering the Celestial Toymaker is being animated next and not the Smugglers
Highlanders. Highlanders.
I realised when watching the animation of The Macra Terror which everybody seems to think is top tier on IPlayer why I don't like these animations. It just looks so... empty.
I just can't get into them because of that. When I looked up the telesnaps it all became so clear, if they fixed the aspect ratio, thus putting all the characters closer together it wouldn't look that bad, I suppose they did this because having a smaller aspect ratio wasn't as profitable but it just looks so dull.
Another thing is they just need to add more action in the background instead of the characters standing still, why they don't do this makes more sense because of time and budgeting constraints but if they have the chance to add movement it'll be so much better.
Great video buddy! I collect the animations - I'm an unashamed steelbook/Dr.Who animation collector fan! Don't always watch thrm though! 😂😂 wish they would do The Daleks Master Plan!
If BBC iPlayer is anything to go by, the animations ARE meant to replace the missing episodes. The idea seems that once everything is animated (and Anthony Coburn's loony son has been dealt with one way or another) the whole package can be put together so that future fans can enjoy a full run of the series.
Talking of iPlayer, why have they put up those RAW unVidFired versions of loose episodes? The Reign of Terror 1-2-3-6, The Daleks Master Plan 2-5-10, The Celestial Toymaker 4, The Faceless Ones 1+3, The Ice Warriors 1-4-5-6, The Wheel In Space 3, The Invasion 2-3-5-6-7-8 ... It's getting to the point where I will have to go back to my DVDs for decent versions of a lot of these stories. Thankfully all 24 of the complete stories plus The Web Of Fear 1-2-4-5-6 seem to be vidfired and the whole of the Pertwee era has been put up in the best existing versions.
Josh Snares time
Yeah baby!!!!
Love Nyssa in the background!
I watch them all in Black and White, so the lighting/atmosphere is less of a big issue for me (I think the spooky moments look better in black and white anyway) but I agree this is a misstep for the colour versions.
There's always the option to listen to just the soundtrack like fans have been doing for years, so anything we get given is usually welcome for me, simply because it gives us a new release in the DVD/Blu-ray range, which has consistently been of very high quality regarding additional features.
100%
Great to have a new vid, missed them soooo much!
They should all be 3D, and as realistic as it can be, whilst I’m a purist at heart,you’re quite right that it could never replicate the original, so some artistic license should be allowed to make the story as good as it could have been if the BBC had movie budgets of the time.
We all know that sometimes, some stories lack pace, compared to todays, so maybe they should be allowed to alter the length slightly, much akin to the colourised Daleks story (I would love to see your thoughts on it Josh!).
Great review vid👍🏻👌🏻😄👏🏻, I completely understand the profitability aspect 🤑 but, for myself, I still preffered the old Reign of Terror / Moonbase & Tenth Planet animations. Don't get me wrong, I 💕 the guys making the new animations, the large scale sets (although I do think they should keep the original as close as possible to surviving episodes & not be given Carte' Blanche or you get epic failures like the ugly/lazy Rill ship interior of Galaxy Four & Underwater Menace Sea Temple, but if no episides exist then they should be given Carte' Blanche) & I'll take anything just to see these wonderful (& sadly lost in 'time & space, literally) episodes reanimated from the beyond... BUT‼️ I still wish that the moody old animations such as The Invasion where upgraded / funded moreso as I think that, by now, they would be far superior. I didn't even bother buying the Web of Fear & sadly The Celestial Toymaker looks like something similar but regardless I shall still buy it.... 🤷🏻♂️ On a personal note... Please, please, please do a review on The Daleks in Colour when it's released later in February 2024 🙏🏻😄🙏🏻
Underwater Menace was a weird animation. I wonder if they just had a lot less money to work with.
As far as I’m aware the budget hasn’t changed..
Michael Craze did have that quintessential boy (or should I say lad) next-door quality. I almost forget about him salivating over Frasier Hines' Jamie... _"Nothing beats a great pair of Leggs!"_
I was taken aback by how Ben was presented in _"The Power of The Daleks."_ They actually made him look older and mainly angry. 😲
I've said it before, but I still think The Invasion's animation is still the best (or at least my favourite). Still holds up really well, and it's a really fun story so it works well.
There is somewhere they could borrow them every episode and would not have to leave London but I'm not telling until Disney signs all rights back to the BBC or Netflix.
It's great to open a video with a kind of 'Remember when the Berlin Wall came down - happy days!' sentiment. It's true though. You think it's all plain sailing and then someone votes for a log in a suit.
The TARDIS door thing I never noticed 😂 I was to engrossed in the story hahaha. Although I was a bit disappointed with the death of the Villain I was waiting for the Classic death 😂 Has the Celestial Toymaker release been officially announced or still Fandom theory? As its gone very quiet maybe I missed something. Yep I missed the announcement 😂
I like the animation as telly naps bored me, but Web of Fear animation that was tough and finding out that it's the same team again my heart sinks as I've always enjoyed the story partly due to the Target Novelisation of the story and it was different - let's hope it's an improvement.
Supposed to be out in March, but we’ll see 🔍
@@JoshSnaresjust watched the trailer a marked improvement in some aspects it has a almost Alice in Wonderland vibe to it. March wow I was thinking Summer or November time this must of been in the Works for some time. Yeah I agree before passing judgement wait until it's released who knows they may have changed the story slightly and elevated it - which I don't mind them doing.
For me the animations are a way to experience these stories not re-creations of the original episodes. Like novelizations they are a re-interpretation of the story. And I think that leads directly to a major issue - some of these stories aren't that great as stories to begin with. Celestial Toymaker as you say is a "snoozefest" and Underwater Menace is uneven. I actually think they should have leant into the wackiness of the story more and made it like a hallucinatory fever dream - but that's probably just me :). Anyway, putting amazing (read:expensive) visuals against a so-so story is always going to be a hard sell to the people who set the budgets. You could do an incredible job and it's still only going to be something I put on occasionally. I also really love Fury From the Deep but that's because I think it's a strong story. My favourite is probably Power of the Daleks which I know lots of people hate the design but I think the story's great.
You could take this argument too far of course. A great story done with stick figures wouldn't be a great animation. But I guess I'm saying I'd like them to focus on the better stories first. Did they choose CT to tie in with the 60th and then it over-ran? That's why I think they should so The Space Pirates next ;)
Animations mildly scare me man, it’s just constant uncanny valley, far too frightening. But I have picked up evil of the daleks because that’s one that didn’t look absolutely terrifying and actually rather lovely. Great video as always man!
"If we want to make that change, we need to justify it." Great quote. I only wish that Chibnall and now RTD thought that way.
Said no-one with a brain ever.
I wonder if certain stories could be recplicated using the telesnaps, run through some sort og AI thingamajig....
Sadly, I couldn’t get in to the animated episodes, it just feels very janky. I love the Patrick Troughton era of Doctor Who, but seeing Power of the Daleks in a cartoon form really took me out of it. Damn you BBC for deleting the actual footage
Thanks for a nuanced review of the ups and downs of these animations!
Moonbase was the pinnacle. Underwater menace is only 2 episodes as i ALWAYS watch any existing episodes in a watch. I can let that slide. Celestial toymaker....well...reminded me of dreamland. Didn't mind this style, so we will see.
You're right the animation on Toymaker is looking better! I think they're going with a style due to the type of story it's telling. it COULD work but we shall see. I'll give it a chance