finally a REAL tutorial that explains instruments BEFORE using them and show exactly how they work and WHY. Thanks, i needed a quick refresh after a loooong pause in subsims
Hello, 2 things: 1) in my opinion if you measure the speed of a ship when you are perpendicular to 90 °, the method of taking the transit time through a point is valid, but this was at a 16 ° aob, so it passes obliquely through the point and takes longer time, distorting the speed making you think it goes slower than it actually is. 2) with the attack disk you set 358 °, not 2°, so in the final route there is an error of 4 °. Other than that, thanks for the video, the explanations are are very clear and have served me a lot.
@@nickhatch1356 He said below that the AOB doesn't change the amount of time it takes for the length of ship to pass by. It does seem counter-intuitive but I think that your observation is correct.
Nice video, well informative. As a seasoned skipper returning from a very long hiatus, i needed this refresher course. Also, holding ctrl gives you a fine input while moving periscope allowing you to move it less with more mouse movement, and shift moves it faster with less mouse movement. Just in case you didnt know.
At time 17:55 you read 62 deg course, to me it looks more like 58 deg if reading correctly. Anyway, great lesson, indeed! Very clear explanation of how it works. Vielen Dank, Herr Kaleun! :-)
Well here I am once again, after not playing for a long time, refreshing the RAOBF and the attack disk a little bit, as I had kinda forgotten how they worked. I don't know what I would do without this video! Thank you so much, Tonci!
Hey I´m happy that I could help. Soon I´ll have to rewatch the video myself. My Cold Waters Campaign is about to end, and then we´ll return to Silent Hunter. Stay tuned for that :)
My brother, that is absolutely the best tutorial I was able to find in the last three days thank u for doing it for me five years ago ...definitely many people get this knowledge from you.
I'm returning to "subsimming" after some 8 years. This is an absolute masterclass in the Attack procedures. Very informative and detailed. Thank you so much. 👍
Here I’ve been determining my target speed and course and angle off bow using target motion analysis. Taking bearing and stadimeter range data and plot them on my map. Simply wait till my navigator updates my position, take bearing and range, place a point from my ship to that spot on the map, after 15 minutes or so I can reasonably calculate the course and speed by noting the distance and direction traveled and the time that passes. But this seems way better
Thanks for the video. I'm learning the RAOBF and had no idea about the function for finding speed. I may need to watch this a few more times. I'm glad you created it!
Very good tutorial, It took me a while but after many fails and duds I finally managed to manually sink my first ship. Kinda makes you realize how nuts real-life skippers were.
Very good RAOBF and Attack Disc Tutorial !! My opinion you are one of the best Silent Hunter 5 Tutorial player .... I learn so much from you.. Please more or from other SH5 Submarine Games (SH3 (GWX3.0,UBoat, Wolfpack) 🤗🤗 Even with my bad knowledge of english I understand almost everything...
Instead of fiddling with aligning the scope to put the gyro 0 degrees, simply click "View(scope) to Heading" or press the "-" key to the right of "0" on the top of the keyboard... problem solved... almost instantly. It also appears under the navigator or watch officer commands at the bottom of the screen. It's a super helpful function. Heading to view and view to heading are super important. "Heading to View" is "." on the numpad.
Also "0" on the numpad is straight rudder which comes in handy with the arrow keys. Left and right arrow set the rudder to 5 degrees in that direction for subtle directional adjustments. Shift + Left or Right arrow is Full left or right rudder. I use those commands to set my heading manually all the time along with the "." numpad heading to view. Even if your underwater, and you want to turn directly toward a sound contact(let's say bearing 270 degrees)... simply walk from the hydrophone station to the observation scope. Turn the scope to 270 and press "." on the numpad and you'll begin a turn directly toward that sound contact.
It takes a lot of time and a lot of defeats to be able to get his first victory... You sir helped me a lot. Still have to practice a lot but it's a lot easier with your tutorials than just reading the documentation! Vielen Dank, und schönen Abend noch ;)
@@Tonci87 okay der moment wenn du nach 3 tagen der verzweifelten Torpedoverschwendung endlich den Bogen raus hast und dein erstes Schiff versenkst 😬 That feeling ! Hast du einen Ratschlag oder Tipp wie die Winkel einzustellen sind wenn man nicht auf 90° interception Winkel kommt, sondern den Zeitpunkt verpasst hat ? LG
@@T0xPaC Die Geschwindigkeit solltest du ja schon gemeßen haben. Diese ist die wichtigste Variable. Im Fall dass du den idealen Punkt verpasst hast, hilft nur Geschwindigkeit gemäß Messung einstellen, Lagewinkel und Entfernung schätzen, Daumen drücken
Great video, I now know how to use that intimidating attack disc and RAOBF dial. Your shot would have been perfect IF you had set the correct distance before firing. You're distance was set to 30km and your target was MUCH closer than that which is why your salvo hit angle was so tightly grouped.
Thank you. The distance to target didn´t matter here at all though. If you set up a 90° shot, then the distance setting is irrelevant. My shot grouping was a bit off because I made a little mistake when reading the targets course :)
You can also measure the speed when not pointing your whole ship at the enemy. At 45 degrees you need to add your speed to the measurment if moving at the target or substract it if you are moving away. The ARB Wide GUI for SH3 has a table for other angles, it is the Tht table one the top left, second from the right.
Hi, first of all I want to say that this video is really amazing and you helped me out quiet a lot, so thank you very much! Your method works really great for me, but I have one question I want to ask. At 16:54 you say that the bearing of the target is at 2 degrees, but you put the pointer on the attack disk at 358 degrees, could you explain me why? Thanks again and keep up the good videos!
Thanks for this great and very detailed tutorial! I've been having a lot of fun with SH3 and SH4 but do my torpedo calculation measurements on the map which doesn't seem realistic to me lol. Now I want to try out SH5 with this mod using these tools, seems much more immersive.
The rotational sensitivity of finding zero gyro angle can be changed by zooming in on the periscope. At max magnification, it is much easier to hit zero gyro angle. At lowest mag, like you had, it is almost impossible to hit zero.
Solid tutorial. Zooming with the periscope really helps nail down that gimbal zeroing. And in general, all the fiddly small movements can be helped if you have a gaming mouse with sensitivity switching or sensitivity clutch functionality. I have a button I hold on my naga that changes it to 100dpi. Even then it seems that the periscope is limited in how precise it can be on the vertical axis. Dude below says holding ctrl allows for fine movement on periscope... I'll have to try that.
Hi there, thank you very much for your most helpful video. Just a minor thing; you seem to be struggling with how to point both needles on the dials at exactly 0 degrees while turning the scope to 0 deg. You dont have to do this by turning the scope but you can click the point where you want to have them on the dial. So mostly it will be the right dial, click on the top position and the needle will jumo to there exactly and the scope will follow! Many thanks!
I doubt they did all that in real life. They simply didn't have the time. After you've fired a dozen torpedoes your brain can actually calculate everything pretty reliably. You don't need all these tools. And this is how it worked in real life as well. With so many targets, so many threats and such limited time, i'm sure they just "speculated". The brain is an incredible targeting computer.
Basically, they did everything they had the time to do. You are correct, that they very often didn't have the time to set up a super precise firing solution, and just eyeballed it. However, the attack disc was used very frequently, because it is a tool that can be used very easily in every situation
There are a lot of players who love using lots of gadgets and equate tedious difficulty as being realistic when in reality it's just making things tedious, unrealistic, and unnecessarily difficult.
Thanks so much. Here's a really dumb question. How do you get the Weapons Officer dialog box shown in the bottom right corner of your screen? It's where you can manually enter bearing, distance, AOB, and speed. I don't know how to enable or open that feature. I have the full mod installed.
Hi Tonci87! One thing I don't understand @ 9:11 in the video. You say we move number 45 to 190meter ship length to figure out the speed. Why number 45? Is that because you took 45 seconds exactly for measurement on the watch to get the speed? Or is it because the distance to target was 4500meters that you calculated before? But then just a little later you say that you can now calculate the range to target and calculate it via stadimeter. (Sorry I'am a noob)
fantastic video. At 16:50 you begin to talk about the attack disk. You note the ship bearing being at 2 degrees, but when you line up on the attack disk, it appears you line up at 358 degrees (2 degrees to the right of 0). Was that intentional? And if so, why? I guess I'm confused why you didn't mark the bearing at 2 degrees (two ticks to the left of zero).
Hi! Very nice video, it helped me to learn how to use the RAOFB! But I just have a question... Why are you aiming 350 when firing the torpedoes? I mean, aren't you supposed to fire them aiming 0 so that the AoB is 90? What am I missing? Thank you very much!
Hi there. Please have a look at the Gyro angle (the two big wheels on the buttom right) I fire when the gyro angle is zero. The Gyro angle determines how much the torpedo will turn after leaving the tube. In order to be independent of the range to target we need a straight running torpedo that impacts at a 90° angle. That is why I have to aim at 350 in this case. I hope that made it easier to understand :)
Of all the TDC tutorials on the Tube, yours was the most helpful in figuring out the settings! Now all I've to worry about is collecting the info -- range, speed, AOB, etc. Speaking of AOB and using the RAOBF, I'm at a loss as to how to read it when the target is at a relative bearing to my left, sailing away from me, and the AOB is greater than 90-degrees. The inner ring of the RAOBF displays only double digits -- is the RAOBF _not_ meant the be use for angles greater than 90?
Edit: And someone asked this already. "If the target is sailing away from you then the AOB is greater than 90°. In that case you need to subtract whatever result you get with the RAOBF from 180° ."
So which one was used in a realistic scenario? The RAOBF or the U-Jagd stopwatch? I wanted to do the realistic approach but every super modded entry in the Silent Hunter series tells you different things about what 100% realism means and how you achieve it. Living Silent Hunter 3 as far as i know uses neither of these options.
Well, there of course is no easy answer to that. Every commander and every crew was different and had his/their own preferences. Add to that that the RAOBF and Stadimeter were at some point not included in new periscopes. According to many war diaries the method used most often to get the targets speed is "Ausdampfen" (range and AOB were eyeballed). Ausdampfen however can also mean multiple things. Check out my video on the historical Ausdampfverfahren to see one meaning. The other meaning would be to simply sail parallel to the target and to match its course and speed before your attack.
there's something that disturbes me with this method. If the targeted ship comes towards you at an angle (say AOB 45 stb) the time measured will be different than if it would be at an AOB of 90, be cause the optical lenght is different, then speed reading is different... am I wrong ? Is there anything i didn't get ? thanks for the tutorial.
A common misconception. The time that the target needs to pass through the center of your periscope from bow to stern will always be the same, regardless of the AOB. Imagine the scene from above, and imagine a line from your sub to just in front of the targets course. Now pay attention to the point where that imagined line crosses the targets course. The target ship will always need the same amount of time to pass that point, even if you let it approach from another direction.
At 16:35, why did you set the bearing pointer to 358 instead of 2 (while mentioning "two degrees")? Its the only part that got me super confused. Also, since you maneuvered to attack position, won't that require another range (fine tune) and AOB(trivial?) reading? The rest is GREAT! Very clear instructions :)
Actually range does not matter except for time to impact calculation. That's why you can set up an attack on several ships in a row in a convoy and have them all impact at about the same time as each ship passes your firing mark starting with the furthest.
I just saw that you added a question to your post. Since I know the ships course from my AOB observation, and I'm intercepting it at 90 degrees, i already know the AOB. It will be 90° when the ship is at my 0° bearing. Range does not matter at all if you do a 90° intercept
Nice but doesn't the angle to bow of the ship affect the result of the timing?! Surely the time o pass the crosshairs assumes you are perpendicular to its course? Otherwise great demo!
Make sure that you have followed the installation instructions to the letter. If the problem still persists, go to this thread www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=238315
@@Tonci87 Can you clarify for me a bit? Bearing was 2 degrees, but adjusted the attack disk to a value of 358 and ran the calculation with a successful hit. Does it have something to do with the target position being port or starboard? is there a "mental conversion" to consider, pending this information (360-2 = 358)? I followed your video elaborating this method successfully for the first ship I sunk, but the last 3 or 4 I some how keep shooting behind the ship after my Attack disk adjustment for the 90 degree intercept. Just looking for things I am doing wrong.
Hi, I received a notification for a comment you made, but that comment is not listed here for some reason. Anyway, it does not matter too much if your AOB calculation is off by a few degrees, as long as you do not shoot at extreme range. The most important value to get right is by far the targets speed. If you keep missing, then that is the value I would verify first.
So I did all this and my intercept course was off I got an angle on bow of 21 degrees and I'm just confused both my torpedoes over shot by just a few meters of the bow, trying to figure out what went wrong
Hi, all your videos are helping me a lot, thanks. One question: I see that when you turn the rudder you can change course on the spot, without moving the speed of the sub. Since it doesn't work for me (I have the WoS mod, but I haven't activated everything), I wanted to ask you what mod allows you to do that.
@@Tonci87 At 18:33, after setting the new course to place the sub at 90° with the target course. The speed pointer is always stopped at zero. Your perplexity made me look at the details of the video again from the beginning. Then I saw this: at 3:45 you go to speed 5 to turn the sub's heading to 0°, at 4:42 you drop to speed 1, your mouse presses 1, but the speed pointer drops to indicate 0. Also on the command log in the lower right corner it says "ahead slow", not "all stop". That's why I thought you were moving at a standstill, the pointer shows "0", but you are actually moving at 1. Even when at 18:33 you move to get at 90° with the target, you are not standing still, the pointer shows 0 but you are already moving at 1, and the log always shows only "23.08 ahead slow". So it's just a bug of the game, the same that I had already noticed in my game, for example I go from 0 to 1, the speed increases, the command "ahead slow" appears but the speed pointer stays at 0. If I want to go back to "all stop" and press 0 nothing happens, I first have to press speed 2 (finally the pointer moves), and then try again with 0, so I can go back to "all stop".
Can you clarify for me a bit? Bearing was 2 degrees, but adjusted the attack disk to a value of 358 and ran the calculation with a successful hit. Does it have something to do with the target position being port or starboard? is there a "mental conversion" to consider, pending this information (360-2 = 358)? I followed your video elaborating this method successfully for the first ship I sunk, but the last 3 or 4 I some how keep shooting behind the ship after my Attack disk adjustment for the 90 degree intercept. Just looking for things I am doing wrong ^ comment you couldn't see, sorry to clutter and make it another coment. Thank you, I will double verify target speeds!
Well setting the attack disc to 358 instead of 2 degrees was a mistake, however not a terrible one since a few degrees of error will not have a huge impact. Especially not at that range. As I wrote earlier, the targets speed is the most important value to get right. If your torpedoes keep passing behind the target, that likely means that your calculated speed is too low. When you meassure the speed, then focus on the ships waterline. What I mean by that is, do not start the clock when your targets bow tip is passing through your crosshair. Start it at that point where the bow is coming out of the water. Same for the targets stern.
@@Tonci87 you are most welcome. Thank you for all of your tutorials and explanation on subsim. I would love to see you back in hte saddle and have a playthrough !
@@Dusty7460 There will be more Silent hunter content on the channel within the next months. However, it will be SH3 and not SH5. (If I can get everything to work well). While SH5 has been much improved by TWOS, the game is still full of bugs, issues and bad AI. SH3 with Mods looks almost as good as SH5 but has better AI, more playable Subs, more realism, crew management, etc. So you can look forward to that :)
I have one question: what if the target has an optical range bigger than 40? And what do you do if the AOB is greater than 90? Also, the grading is imprecise when its starts to get near 90 degrees.
Please note that this method only works at the maximum magnification of your scope. If the target has an optical range that is greater than 40, then you don´t really need to aim any more to hit it :D. If the target is sailing away from you then the AOB is greater than 90°. In that case you need to subtract whatever result you get with the RAOBF from 180°
Hast du ein anderen Scale Mod für RAOBF mit der einzel Einzeleinteilung? Ich hab da nur ne 2er Einteilung mit einer 10 als Markierung, finde deine schöner.
Really good tutorial. Thanks. But I'm still confused with the speed measurement red line. I mean there are 3 red lines. How should i know which one to use?
I'm pounting to the red line with my mouse, sorry if it is hard to see in the video. You use the middle red line that is pointing upwards and to the right
@@Tonci87 Thanks for the quick response. I did a little googling and I think that the red line (middle one or the bottom one) should be chosen by the current scope zoom (x1.5 / x6). Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's pretty hard to find information for that.
@@Archydemon There is a difference in meassuring AOB and Distance if you switch to a 1.5x zoom, but how you read the speed is always the same. The ship will take just as much time to pass through the center of your scope in x6 zoom as it does in x1.5 zoom :)
What do you use for your ship recognition suit? I am using the wolves of steel as well however it just has the basic pages that pull up that give you virtually no informaiton.
The one thing i can't get at the moment - at what moment you should fire torpedoes on 90 deg. Angle, 340,350 bearing? And what about that 0 gyroangle value...
If you are in a 90° Position and you have set up your TDC accordingly (AOB 90 at bearing 0 and target speed), you turn your Periscope until the Gyro angle is 0. You fire when the target passes your crosshair. The Gyro angle determines by how much the torpedo will turn once it has left the tube. Gyro angle 0 means that the Torpedo will go in a straight line. You will notice that the bearing at which your gyro angle is 0 is determined by the targets speed (and your torpedo speed setting). The faster your target is, the more you will have to turn your periscope from the 0° bearing until your gyro angle is 0.
How to calculate the lead? I spent an entire day on a single merchant ship but keep missing the target. It is 3.6 km away and i cant really get any closer, otherwise i will be detected.
@@Tonci87i did understand the methods of calculating speed, range and aob. But, i didnt understand the gyroscope thing. When encountering a contact, i aim my crosshairs at it, press space, tell the torpedo man to auto identify it and then look itu up on the ERM. I used the u jagd and raobf to calculate speed, range and then aob. Then i set up the attack disk which usually tells me where to turn so that i have a 90 deg aob. My problem is the final part of it... knowing when to shoot What i did was i fired right when the ship crosses my crosshair. My periscope was set in a way that both of my gyroscope gives a 0 degree reading. Missed There is a pdf explaining how to get the lead angle, however im not very familiar with the back side of the attack disk (and worsened by very little of image explaining step by step) Also after firing, do torpedoes turn to the bearing we are aiming at before we press the fire button or do they always travel straight after firing?
@@vortex6818 Ah I see, I think I might know where the problem is. By the way, you do not need the backside of the attack disc at all. Try this if you want to set up a 90° attack: Get the targets speed and course. Set yourself up on a 90° angle to the targets course. Point you periscope straight forward at bearing 0°. Press the little button to activate the manual TDC input. Set AOB to 90° left or right (depends on the side the target is showing you). Enter the targets speed. Press the button again. You will now notice that your gyroangle (This btw. is how much the torpedo will turn once it leaves the tube. 0° = straight run) is NOT 0°. Now turn your periscope until the gyro angle is at 0° (By how much you had to turn your periscope is your lead angle btw.). Fire once the target is in your crosshairs. I think your problem is that you are setting up the data for a 90° shot while looking at your target, is that right? But once you turn your periscope the angle has changed.
hey guys, i've got a question regarding the campaign and promotion points. i started the first campaign and requested the eastern costal waters mission. i finished it and got some promotion points for that. than i requested the mission on the west. i delivered the spy and shoot some ships two. i finished my patrol but didnt get any points for that. im doing the weserübung right now. after i reconed one of the ports the small symbol on ther upper left of the screen, that showed wich mission you requested disappeard. im afraid i wont get any points for this mission too, although i shoot some ships at narwick. what am i doing wrong? is it needed to request the missions or could i just fo them without requesting? will i get any points for that? i know there is a way to "cheat" those points, but i wanna work it out. would be very thankfull for your help!
Hard to tell what went wrong there, but I wouldn´t worry too much about it. You will receive more than enough promotion points during the campaigns. I had my crew maxed out at the end of 1942
Thank you for this, very helpful tutorial. I am wondering how you can extend this technique to a convoy/multiple ship attack. Multiple ships with different speeds seems like quite the challenge when playing in full realism. Convoys are probably easier since all ships move at the same speed and have the same course, so only AOB/range changes. In any case, a multiple attack tutorial would also be very much appreciated :).
The whole point of the TDC is to make attacking multiple targets on the same course and speed easy. If your firing solution is sound the you can fire at one target then track left or right to fire at another and they'll all hit assuming identical courses and speeds independent of range. The TDC updates the AOB as you move the scope. With most solutions range is also mostly unimportant. It has some effect with the parallax of torpedoes that have to turn out of the tubes but for straight no gyro shots its meaningless except to your stop watch, assuming your soultion is accurate enough. If you spend time getting a perfect solution for a convoy attack you can fire all your torpedoes at 2 or 3 targets and hit all of them. The only real extra finesse would be timing your shots so they all mostly hit at the same time.
Multiple attack is actually not that hard, depending on what you want to shoot. If you want to hit three different targets all in a different row and column in the convoy, yeah that is hard. But hitting three targets in the same row is pretty easy. If you set up a 90 degree angle on first target, take distance and speed. Set periscope to zero degrees and put in the data. Then when turning the periscope will adjust the TDC data. I have been thinking about different approaches about this. For example hit three hits around the same time by targeting the middle ship of the row. Fire impact torpedo (at slow speed maybe) at zero gyroangle, then 1 magnetic torpedo (fast speed) to the port and starboard ships, which will have different gyroangles, but if the magntics work that should not be a problem. Stil have to try this out. I do think the early torpedoes had really unreliable magnetic triggers, so maybe go for impact anyway. Love this game.
If you are on the opposite side of the ship you have to use the red portion of the angle of bow measurer and read off your attack bearing on the innermost circle or something like that, am i correct? It was the only way i could make my calculations make sense and i am on the opposite side of the ship compared to where you are in this vid.
Yes, if you are on the other side of the ship, then you have to use the red side of the bearing disc. But you should still be able to use the same bearing rings
While i have you here, if you don't mind. How come the range to the target doesn't matter when you do it like this? I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but i don't understand how the range can be irrelevant even tho it clearly seems to be.
@@Coinkidoink This only works if you are positioned at a 90° angle to the targets course. Your TDC knows the speed of your Torpedo, and you have entered the targets speed into the TDC. If you now turn your periscope until the Gyro angle is 0° you will know when to fire so that your torpedo will travel straight until it collides with the target. Your TDC calculates the solution for a triangle. Draw a triangle where your boat is Point A, a line straight out from your boat representing the torpedo path to point B where it intersects the targets course at 90°. Point C will represent the target, and will be somewhere along the target course line. The line from A to C should be drawn at an angle that represents you looking at a bearing where your gyro angle will be 0. The angle depends on the speed of the target. A faster target means a bigger angle. The triangle now shows the situation when you shoot the torpedo. Your TDC knows that the torpedo will need x seconds to arrive at point B. It also knows how fast the target is travelling. So the TDC now calculates at what point the target will also need x seconds to go from C to B and it sets the gyro angle accordingly. So what happens if you move the line with the targets course farther away from point A? The torpedo path gets longer, and the travel path of the target gets longer until it reaches point B. Your angle at A will stay the same though, because the torpedo and the target now both need y seconds to meet at B.
Echt gutes Tutorial. Ich frage mich aber ob man vor dem Schuss nochmal die Distanz nachstellen muss? Das müsste ja einen Unterschied beim Vorhaltewinkel (Bearing beim Schuss->Gyrowinkel) machen. (Vorallem, wenn man auf größere Distanzen schießt. Hier war sie am Ende ja relativ klein)
Here is what is causing me trouble: Wouldn't the angle on bow change how fast the vessel crosses the reticule for a given speed? The angle on bow is not used to calculate vessel speed and that seems wrong. Correction: It appears that the time the vessel takes to cross the reticule is in fact *insensitive* to angle-on-bow. It takes the vessel equal amounts of time to traverse it's own length regardless of what angle it is viewed from. However we can still assume there will be difficulty in accurately determining this time when the angle is low.
Doppebild Entfernungs- und Zielkurswinkelschätzer Stell es dir vor wie den Stadimeter, nur das man das überlappende Bild auch horizontal verschieben konnte bis der Bug das Heck berührte. Abhängig von der eingestellten Länge und vorher gemessenen Entfernung konnte dann der Lagewinkel abgelesen werden. Im Laufe des Krieges wurden neue Boote irgendwann nicht mehr damit bestückt, wahrscheinlich aus Kostengründen.
okay so years ago I played first sh than sh3 which I loved now years later this sh5 with mods like this for the first time yeah my brain hurts but I'm learning something I was not taught in school
ich hab da eine sache nicht gecheckt, muss man sich jetzt immer mit dem bug richtung ziel stellen und dann die ganzen messungen vornehmen? der AOB und die attack disc hat iwie nicht gefunzt, habs nicht geschafft nach all den daten mich auf den 90° kurs zum ziel zu stellen.
Mit dem Bug Richtung Ziel muss man sich nur für die Geschwindigkeitsmessung stellen. Es wäre gut wenn du identifizieren könntest an welchem Schritt sich bei dir Fehler einschleichen. Für die Kursermittlung benötigt man den Lagewinkel, und für den die Entfernung. War die den richtig gemessen?
@@Tonci87 hab den fehler gefunden, hab bei der attack disc das erste ding auf die falsche skala gelegt und dann falsch abgelesen. eine frage hätte ich aber noch, unzwar wie is das wenn das bearing auf 270 zb ist. die attack disc geht ja nur bis 180.
@@tripplesix8459 Welches Bearing ist gerade gemeint? Die Attack Disc hat für Bearing und Kurs 360°. Oder meinst du den Lagewinkel wenn der über 90° hinausgeht, also das Ziel von dir wegdampft? In dem Fall wird der ja wieder kleiner. Du erhältst den korrekten Winkel wenn du das errechnete von 180° abziehst.
@@Tonci87 ja den lagewinkel meine ich d.h. wenn ich n bearing von 270 hab muss ich 270-180 rechnen? ich hatte mich jetzt auch nicht mit dem vorderen bug richtung feind gestellt, sondern die berechnung direkt aus der ausgangsstellung dieser mission vorgenommen.
@@tripplesix8459 Vergessen wir mal den eigenen Bug. Der Lagewinkel ist nichts anderes als, der Winkel zwischen dem Kurs des Ziels, und deiner Position, vom Ziel aus gesehen. Wenn das Ziel also genau auf dich zukommt ist der Lagewinkel 0. Dampft es genau von dir weg ist der Lagewinkel 180. So weit klar? Kommt das Ziel auf dich zu, und du siehst die rechte, also die Steuerbordseite des Ziels, wird der Lagewinkel irgendwo zwischen 0 und 90° Steuerbord liegen. Dampft das Ziel von dir weg und du siehst die Steuerbordseite, wird der Lagewinkel irgendwo zwischen 90 und 180° liegen. Das selbe nochmal für die Backbordseite mit 0-90° Backbord und 90-180° Backbord. Einen Lagewinkel 270° gibt es deshalb gar nicht. Deshalb bin ich so verwirrt wenn du von Bearing 270° sprichst. Oder meinst du doch den Wert den du in deinem eigenen Periskop ablesen kannst, also deine eigene Blickrichtung?
Awesome! I can clearly see that range in fact did not matter (no way that tanker was still almost 3,000 m away) but I was wondering why that is? Would appreciate some explanation. Still a great video!
That is hard to explain without drawing a picture. But basically imagine this, or draw it if it helps: A triangle with our ship, the enemy ship at the position where we shoot, and the enemy ship at the position where we hit it as the corner points. Our TDC knows how fast our torpedo is going. That is the side of the triangle from our boat to the point of impact. We also know how fast the enemy is travelling. That will be the side from the enemies position where we fire, to the point of impact. Since we attack at an 90° angle the other two angles in the triangle have to add up to 90°. The Range does not matter because with a 90° angle the ratio between target and torpedo speed always remains the same. So imagine we drag the corner with the impact point away from our submarine. The sides of the triangle will expand at the same ratio. The thing that will not be changing is the angles. If we change the distance from our submarine to the point of impact, the target will always remain on the line that is formed from our submarine to the targets position when we fire. We will always see it at the same bearing when we fire, regardless of the range. That bearing is calculated by the TDC based on the torpedo and target speed. Basically at bearing x the target will take how many seconds to arrive at bearing 0? When will the time to impact be equal for the target and the torpedo? This is a very crude explanation, and I am sorry if it doesn´t help.
There used to be an animated GIF that showed the problem easily. But basically, when a line of ships is crossing your bow at 90 degrees to your heading, with a 90 degree AOB if you fire on zero gyro angle it will hit any ship that crosses the vertical reticle at any distance. This make sit hugely convenient when a convoy of ships passes in front of you with nice neat rows and columns of ships. Your sub is pointed 90 degrees to the convoy course, but your scope will be pointed 10 degrees or so to the left or right for zero gyro angle. As the farthest column ship passes your reticle, you fire. Then the next closes ship will cross, fire again. Then the next closest ship, fire again, then the next closest ship, fire again. If you have the speed set properly, and the ships don't spot your torpedoes and alter course/speed, each ship will be hit nearly simultaneously.
Do you see the little brown brass tab on the right side of the recognition manual? Look for that on the left side of your screen after you press E. Grab it with your mouse and pull it out.
@@666wolffy Sorry, but no. There are other people on Subsim who are far more familiar with TWOS issue than me, so you should really ask in the thread there to receive competent help.
Hi! I love this game. Unfortunately I uninstalled it back in the day because it gave me a blue screen. This year I have decided to install it on w10, a gtx1070ti, with this megamod and ..... windows blue screen returns ...... :( Can someone tell me how to avoid this? Thank you!
Hi there, unfortunately I can not help with that. However, people on subsim.com might be able to. Here is the link to the TWOS issues thread: www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=238315
Really good tutorial there friend, sorry to bother, but i have some problems my dude, and i don't know what to do about it. (i already searched but i couldn't understand nothing D:) Imagine we have only the range, but to find the AOB, is getting on my nerves, everytime it goes past 90 inner scale, and i don't know the OAB. Moving right to left, away, (x6) Periscope Bearing = 350 / Ship lenght= 110 / Distance to target = 2500, let's say i got 20 ticks, i go for it, and it passes 90, what should i do?
Usually that is an indication that your range reading is wrong. It happens. In such a situation I say trust your gut feeling. The target should be close to 90°, so, add or subtract (depends if the target is going towards you or away from you) about 10° and go for it. It won´t matter too much if you are off by a few degrees. If you feel something might be wrong with your game, there is an AOB and range finder script that you can start in the automation menu. I think it is in Tutorials->Sub. That might help you to check your results for possible errors. For example, if you regularly get a wrong range reading, it might help you to figure out why this happens. Another tip for you, if a target is going away from you, you have to subtract the AOB that you read off on the RAOBF from 180°.
@@Tonci87 Ok ok, thanks man, really, appreciate it. Normally the range is right, i use the standimeter to see if its right too, and it's a pretty close value D:. But appreciate it.
@@Tonci87 my problem is around this step, I can get the range, and the length of the ship but always when I try to do this last step on the RAOBF I just don't get it, this degree you got where it came from ? how do you get it cause I followed every step and I cound't see how it works
@@Tonci87 I misunderstood 16 for 60 thats why I freaked out causa that make nosense to me im really sorry, but I'm happy to see that you keep replying even your 2 years old videos, your tutorials has been helping me a lot along the years..
I've really fallen in love with SH5. I've played U-Boat games ever since, but hardly understood what I was doing and succeeded through mere luck. Now 'I can't get enough complexity. I love the "Das Boot" -like Theme and so on, but I cannot enjoy all the "historical accurate" mods with all the nazi shit in them. I reinstalled SH5 two days ago and when searching for mods I left out Wolves of Steel because of that this time. I liked the Anti-Nazi-Party tone in Das Boot and Vanilla SH, but seeing all that Swastikas makes me want to sink each and every ship between Danzig and Bremerhaven. Maybe I'll give a modded SH4 a try or further go into U-Boat, though it's enerving in controls and micro management.
TWOS includes an optional mod that will remove the flag from your Sub, so the only times when you will see the flag is in port. (You will of course also see the Swastika on various charts and documents). I understand your feelings, but I'll rather put up with a few flags, in the end it is historically accurate, than to miss out on TWOS.
@@Tonci87 I didn't know that. Thank you. I'll have a look into the files later and maybe implement my own flags like a pirate flag or sth. Great Vids anyway!
finally a REAL tutorial that explains instruments BEFORE using them and show exactly how they work and WHY.
Thanks, i needed a quick refresh after a loooong pause in subsims
You are welcome :)
This is a def must for long range shoosting, but I prefer up close and personal.
The time I finish all my all computations, the target has left the area for 2 days ! :) So I'll be the Chef on board, I'll cook.
LMAO Fuck that is so relatable 😂
By the time you've cooked the crew's meal, the sub might have been sunk by depth charges. :/
Do it, Chief Cook..
Aahahahaha true
Hello,
2 things:
1) in my opinion if you measure the speed of a ship when you are perpendicular to 90 °, the method of taking the transit time through a point is valid, but this was at a 16 ° aob, so it passes obliquely through the point and takes longer time, distorting the speed making you think it goes slower than it actually is.
2) with the attack disk you set 358 °, not 2°, so in the final route there is an error of 4 °.
Other than that, thanks for the video, the explanations are are very clear and have served me a lot.
Shouldn't the angle of the ship produce a proportionately smaller length for the transit time thus preserving the accuracy of the speed measurement?
@@nickhatch1356 He said below that the AOB doesn't change the amount of time it takes for the length of ship to pass by. It does seem counter-intuitive but I think that your observation is correct.
1) is wrong. You are measuring how much time the ship takes to move it's whole length. The AOB is irrelevant as long as it isn't 0 or close to it.
Nice video, well informative. As a seasoned skipper returning from a very long hiatus, i needed this refresher course. Also, holding ctrl gives you a fine input while moving periscope allowing you to move it less with more mouse movement, and shift moves it faster with less mouse movement. Just in case you didnt know.
Thank you for the advice, I actually did not know that Ctrl will allow for a slower periscope movement
exactly the same
At time 17:55 you read 62 deg course, to me it looks more like 58 deg if reading correctly. Anyway, great lesson, indeed! Very clear explanation of how it works. Vielen Dank, Herr Kaleun! :-)
you can use the "view to heading" command under the navigator to centre the periscope on 0
Well here I am once again, after not playing for a long time, refreshing the RAOBF and the attack disk a little bit, as I had kinda forgotten how they worked.
I don't know what I would do without this video! Thank you so much, Tonci!
Hey I´m happy that I could help. Soon I´ll have to rewatch the video myself. My Cold Waters Campaign is about to end, and then we´ll return to Silent Hunter. Stay tuned for that :)
My brother, that is absolutely the best tutorial I was able to find in the last three days thank u for doing it for me five years ago ...definitely many people get this knowledge from you.
My pleasure
I'm returning to "subsimming" after some 8 years. This is an absolute masterclass in the Attack procedures. Very informative and detailed. Thank you so much. 👍
Here I’ve been determining my target speed and course and angle off bow using target motion analysis. Taking bearing and stadimeter range data and plot them on my map. Simply wait till my navigator updates my position, take bearing and range, place a point from my ship to that spot on the map, after 15 minutes or so I can reasonably calculate the course and speed by noting the distance and direction traveled and the time that passes.
But this seems way better
Thanks for the video. I'm learning the RAOBF and had no idea about the function for finding speed. I may need to watch this a few more times. I'm glad you created it!
Very good tutorial, It took me a while but after many fails and duds I finally managed to manually sink my first ship. Kinda makes you realize how nuts real-life skippers were.
Very good RAOBF and Attack Disc Tutorial !! My opinion you are one of the best Silent Hunter 5 Tutorial player .... I learn so much from you.. Please more or from other SH5 Submarine Games (SH3 (GWX3.0,UBoat, Wolfpack) 🤗🤗 Even with my bad knowledge of english I understand almost everything...
Omg thank you dude. I was always wanted to play sh games never knew how. I stumbled on your video today and finally I get it know. Cant wait play
Instead of fiddling with aligning the scope to put the gyro 0 degrees, simply click "View(scope) to Heading" or press the "-" key to the right of "0" on the top of the keyboard... problem solved... almost instantly. It also appears under the navigator or watch officer commands at the bottom of the screen. It's a super helpful function. Heading to view and view to heading are super important. "Heading to View" is "." on the numpad.
Also "0" on the numpad is straight rudder which comes in handy with the arrow keys. Left and right arrow set the rudder to 5 degrees in that direction for subtle directional adjustments. Shift + Left or Right arrow is Full left or right rudder. I use those commands to set my heading manually all the time along with the "." numpad heading to view.
Even if your underwater, and you want to turn directly toward a sound contact(let's say bearing 270 degrees)... simply walk from the hydrophone station to the observation scope. Turn the scope to 270 and press "." on the numpad and you'll begin a turn directly toward that sound contact.
It takes a lot of time and a lot of defeats to be able to get his first victory... You sir helped me a lot. Still have to practice a lot but it's a lot easier with your tutorials than just reading the documentation!
Vielen Dank, und schönen Abend noch ;)
Gleichfalls schönen Abend!
@@Tonci87 okay der moment wenn du nach 3 tagen der verzweifelten Torpedoverschwendung endlich den Bogen raus hast und dein erstes Schiff versenkst 😬 That feeling ! Hast du einen Ratschlag oder Tipp wie die Winkel einzustellen sind wenn man nicht auf 90° interception Winkel kommt, sondern den Zeitpunkt verpasst hat ? LG
@@T0xPaC Die Geschwindigkeit solltest du ja schon gemeßen haben. Diese ist die wichtigste Variable. Im Fall dass du den idealen Punkt verpasst hast, hilft nur Geschwindigkeit gemäß Messung einstellen, Lagewinkel und Entfernung schätzen, Daumen drücken
Great video, I now know how to use that intimidating attack disc and RAOBF dial. Your shot would have been perfect IF you had set the correct distance before firing. You're distance was set to 30km and your target was MUCH closer than that which is why your salvo hit angle was so tightly grouped.
Thank you. The distance to target didn´t matter here at all though. If you set up a 90° shot, then the distance setting is irrelevant. My shot grouping was a bit off because I made a little mistake when reading the targets course :)
You can also measure the speed when not pointing your whole ship at the enemy. At 45 degrees you need to add your speed to the measurment if moving at the target or substract it if you are moving away.
The ARB Wide GUI for SH3 has a table for other angles, it is the Tht table one the top left, second from the right.
That is useful to know that SH3 has tables for that! I´ll be playing SH3 in the near future :)
@@Tonci87 45 degrees is really easy, though. It is just your own speed. I am not sure if other Guis have it. It may be only on ARB.
the best tutoria i've seen on youtube
Hi, first of all I want to say that this video is really amazing and you helped me out quiet a lot, so thank you very much!
Your method works really great for me, but I have one question I want to ask.
At 16:54 you say that the bearing of the target is at 2 degrees, but you put the pointer on the attack disk at 358 degrees, could you explain me why?
Thanks again and keep up the good videos!
That was a small mistake I made :D
This video help me a lot, after i start playing game again after 4 years with this great mod....tnx mate..
Thanks for this great and very detailed tutorial! I've been having a lot of fun with SH3 and SH4 but do my torpedo calculation measurements on the map which doesn't seem realistic to me lol. Now I want to try out SH5 with this mod using these tools, seems much more immersive.
The rotational sensitivity of finding zero gyro angle can be changed by zooming in on the periscope. At max magnification, it is much easier to hit zero gyro angle. At lowest mag, like you had, it is almost impossible to hit zero.
Solid tutorial. Zooming with the periscope really helps nail down that gimbal zeroing. And in general, all the fiddly small movements can be helped if you have a gaming mouse with sensitivity switching or sensitivity clutch functionality. I have a button I hold on my naga that changes it to 100dpi. Even then it seems that the periscope is limited in how precise it can be on the vertical axis. Dude below says holding ctrl allows for fine movement on periscope... I'll have to try that.
Yeah, that actually works
Very, very, very well done. Great instruction.
Hi there, thank you very much for your most helpful video. Just a minor thing; you seem to be struggling with how to point both needles on the dials at exactly 0 degrees while turning the scope to 0 deg. You dont have to do this by turning the scope but you can click the point where you want to have them on the dial. So mostly it will be the right dial, click on the top position and the needle will jumo to there exactly and the scope will follow! Many thanks!
I've never tried that. Thanks!
Great video. About periscope accuracy regarding the 0 bearing, try zooming it in, gives you way better and smooth controls!
Thank you for the advice, I do not know why I didn´t think about that at the time :D
I doubt they did all that in real life. They simply didn't have the time. After you've fired a dozen torpedoes your brain can actually calculate everything pretty reliably. You don't need all these tools. And this is how it worked in real life as well. With so many targets, so many threats and such limited time, i'm sure they just "speculated". The brain is an incredible targeting computer.
Basically, they did everything they had the time to do. You are correct, that they very often didn't have the time to set up a super precise firing solution, and just eyeballed it. However, the attack disc was used very frequently, because it is a tool that can be used very easily in every situation
There are a lot of players who love using lots of gadgets and equate tedious difficulty as being realistic when in reality it's just making things tedious, unrealistic, and unnecessarily difficult.
AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME !!!! Thank you for posting this video.
Sehr gutes Tutorial. Ich lerne immer etwas Neues
Thanks so much. Here's a really dumb question. How do you get the Weapons Officer dialog box shown in the bottom right corner of your screen? It's where you can manually enter bearing, distance, AOB, and speed. I don't know how to enable or open that feature. I have the full mod installed.
Aim at target, press Spacebar
Excellent explanation. This is going into my reference list.
How about to zoom in, when you are trying to get the periscope on "0"?
Great Tutorial and well explained, cheers.
Hi Tonci87! One thing I don't understand @ 9:11 in the video. You say we move number 45 to 190meter ship length to figure out the speed. Why number 45? Is that because you took 45 seconds exactly for measurement on the watch to get the speed? Or is it because the distance to target was 4500meters that you calculated before? But then just a little later you say that you can now calculate the range to target and calculate it via stadimeter. (Sorry I'am a noob)
Don´t worry, I was a noob once as well ;) The number 45 is because of the time I measured. 45 seconds.
Can you do this without the manual? I was trying full realism and was missing a lot even with what im sure was a 90 degree intercept.
fantastic video. At 16:50 you begin to talk about the attack disk. You note the ship bearing being at 2 degrees, but when you line up on the attack disk, it appears you line up at 358 degrees (2 degrees to the right of 0). Was that intentional? And if so, why? I guess I'm confused why you didn't mark the bearing at 2 degrees (two ticks to the left of zero).
Yeah, I made a little mistake there...
Isn't target course 58 degrees instead of 62? Great vide so far, show some more attack disc features please :)
Damn, well spotted!
Noticed that too... I added 270 to 62 and couldn't figure out why I was getting a different number for a minute!
Quick, simple, easy.
Thanks
Hi! Very nice video, it helped me to learn how to use the RAOFB! But I just have a question... Why are you aiming 350 when firing the torpedoes? I mean, aren't you supposed to fire them aiming 0 so that the AoB is 90? What am I missing? Thank you very much!
Hi there. Please have a look at the Gyro angle (the two big wheels on the buttom right) I fire when the gyro angle is zero. The Gyro angle determines how much the torpedo will turn after leaving the tube. In order to be independent of the range to target we need a straight running torpedo that impacts at a 90° angle. That is why I have to aim at 350 in this case. I hope that made it easier to understand :)
Of all the TDC tutorials on the Tube, yours was the most helpful in figuring out the settings! Now all I've to worry about is collecting the info -- range, speed, AOB, etc.
Speaking of AOB and using the RAOBF, I'm at a loss as to how to read it when the target is at a relative bearing to my left, sailing away from me, and the AOB is greater than 90-degrees. The inner ring of the RAOBF displays only double digits -- is the RAOBF _not_ meant the be use for angles greater than 90?
Edit: And someone asked this already. "If the target is sailing away from you then the AOB is greater than 90°. In that case you need to subtract whatever result you get with the RAOBF from 180° ."
@@tommyzDad Yes exactly:)
So which one was used in a realistic scenario? The RAOBF or the U-Jagd stopwatch? I wanted to do the realistic approach but every super modded entry in the Silent Hunter series tells you different things about what 100% realism means and how you achieve it. Living Silent Hunter 3 as far as i know uses neither of these options.
Well, there of course is no easy answer to that. Every commander and every crew was different and had his/their own preferences. Add to that that the RAOBF and Stadimeter were at some point not included in new periscopes.
According to many war diaries the method used most often to get the targets speed is "Ausdampfen" (range and AOB were eyeballed). Ausdampfen however can also mean multiple things.
Check out my video on the historical Ausdampfverfahren to see one meaning.
The other meaning would be to simply sail parallel to the target and to match its course and speed before your attack.
there's something that disturbes me with this method. If the targeted ship comes towards you at an angle (say AOB 45 stb) the time measured will be different than if it would be at an AOB of 90, be cause the optical lenght is different, then speed reading is different... am I wrong ? Is there anything i didn't get ? thanks for the tutorial.
A common misconception. The time that the target needs to pass through the center of your periscope from bow to stern will always be the same, regardless of the AOB. Imagine the scene from above, and imagine a line from your sub to just in front of the targets course. Now pay attention to the point where that imagined line crosses the targets course. The target ship will always need the same amount of time to pass that point, even if you let it approach from another direction.
At 16:35, why did you set the bearing pointer to 358 instead of 2 (while mentioning "two degrees")? Its the only part that got me super confused.
Also, since you maneuvered to attack position, won't that require another range (fine tune) and AOB(trivial?) reading?
The rest is GREAT! Very clear instructions :)
Well damn... well spotted. You actually found the reason why the torpedoes missed the intended point of impact by a few meters!
Actually range does not matter except for time to impact calculation. That's why you can set up an attack on several ships in a row in a convoy and have them all impact at about the same time as each ship passes your firing mark starting with the furthest.
I just saw that you added a question to your post. Since I know the ships course from my AOB observation, and I'm intercepting it at 90 degrees, i already know the AOB. It will be 90° when the ship is at my 0° bearing. Range does not matter at all if you do a 90° intercept
Nice but doesn't the angle to bow of the ship affect the result of the timing?!
Surely the time o pass the crosshairs assumes you are perpendicular to its course?
Otherwise great demo!
No it doesn't. Regardless of the angle, the time between the ships bow and stern passing through the crosshair, will always be the same :)
@@Tonci87 yeh had another think about that.
How do I start a campaign? The hud is missing everytime I start one but kn historical missions the hud is there. Is there a special way to start it?
Make sure that you have followed the installation instructions to the letter. If the problem still persists, go to this thread www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=238315
Why is "2 degree bearing" lined up on the "358 degree" mark? Wouldnt 2 line up on 2?
You spotted a little mistake I made
@@Tonci87 Can you clarify for me a bit? Bearing was 2 degrees, but adjusted the attack disk to a value of 358 and ran the calculation with a successful hit. Does it have something to do with the target position being port or starboard? is there a "mental conversion" to consider, pending this information (360-2 = 358)? I followed your video elaborating this method successfully for the first ship I sunk, but the last 3 or 4 I some how keep shooting behind the ship after my Attack disk adjustment for the 90 degree intercept. Just looking for things I am doing wrong.
Hi, I received a notification for a comment you made, but that comment is not listed here for some reason. Anyway, it does not matter too much if your AOB calculation is off by a few degrees, as long as you do not shoot at extreme range. The most important value to get right is by far the targets speed. If you keep missing, then that is the value I would verify first.
Hey there quick question about the inner ring .
You got 60, 65, 70, and what's then? Between the 70 and 90 ?
75, 80 I guess or 80, 85
It goes 70, 75, 80, 90. The 80 is very close to the 90
So I did all this and my intercept course was off I got an angle on bow of 21 degrees and I'm just confused both my torpedoes over shot by just a few meters of the bow, trying to figure out what went wrong
That is difficult to say without seeing what you are doing. But keep practicing, you´ll get there :)
How did you move your periscope so precisely? I have great problems to line it up with the waterline for example
Try holding CTRL :)
Thank YOU!!!
Hi, all your videos are helping me a lot, thanks. One question: I see that when you turn the rudder you can change course on the spot, without moving the speed of the sub. Since it doesn't work for me (I have the WoS mod, but I haven't activated everything), I wanted to ask you what mod allows you to do that.
I´m not quite sure what you mean, could you maybe point out a time in the video where that happens?
@@Tonci87 At 18:33, after setting the new course to place the sub at 90° with the target course. The speed pointer is always stopped at zero. Your perplexity made me look at the details of the video again from the beginning. Then I saw this: at 3:45 you go to speed 5 to turn the sub's heading to 0°, at 4:42 you drop to speed 1, your mouse presses 1, but the speed pointer drops to indicate 0. Also on the command log in the lower right corner it says "ahead slow", not "all stop". That's why I thought you were moving at a standstill, the pointer shows "0", but you are actually moving at 1. Even when at 18:33 you move to get at 90° with the target, you are not standing still, the pointer shows 0 but you are already moving at 1, and the log always shows only "23.08 ahead slow". So it's just a bug of the game, the same that I had already noticed in my game, for example I go from 0 to 1, the speed increases, the command "ahead slow" appears but the speed pointer stays at 0. If I want to go back to "all stop" and press 0 nothing happens, I first have to press speed 2 (finally the pointer moves), and then try again with 0, so I can go back to "all stop".
@@luxman14 Ah yes, yeah that is a bug in the game. If you order a speed of 1kn the speed dial will drop to 0.
Can you clarify for me a bit? Bearing was 2 degrees, but adjusted the attack disk to a value of 358 and ran the calculation with a successful hit. Does it have something to do with the target position being port or starboard? is there a "mental conversion" to consider, pending this information (360-2 = 358)? I followed your video elaborating this method successfully for the first ship I sunk, but the last 3 or 4 I some how keep shooting behind the ship after my Attack disk adjustment for the 90 degree intercept. Just looking for things I am doing wrong
^ comment you couldn't see, sorry to clutter and make it another coment. Thank you, I will double verify target speeds!
Well setting the attack disc to 358 instead of 2 degrees was a mistake, however not a terrible one since a few degrees of error will not have a huge impact. Especially not at that range. As I wrote earlier, the targets speed is the most important value to get right. If your torpedoes keep passing behind the target, that likely means that your calculated speed is too low. When you meassure the speed, then focus on the ships waterline. What I mean by that is, do not start the clock when your targets bow tip is passing through your crosshair. Start it at that point where the bow is coming out of the water. Same for the targets stern.
if you wish to move the periscope to the exact bearing, ( gryo 0-0 ) hold left ctrl and move the mouse it will increase movement precission.!!!
Thank you
@@Tonci87 you are most welcome. Thank you for all of your tutorials and explanation on subsim. I would love to see you back in hte saddle and have a playthrough !
@@Dusty7460 There will be more Silent hunter content on the channel within the next months. However, it will be SH3 and not SH5. (If I can get everything to work well). While SH5 has been much improved by TWOS, the game is still full of bugs, issues and bad AI. SH3 with Mods looks almost as good as SH5 but has better AI, more playable Subs, more realism, crew management, etc.
So you can look forward to that :)
@@Tonci87 I can t wait to see it. :)
Great Discription its really fine to understand even for myself as a German. Thanks alot Is the RAOBF normal in the Game? or is it from a mod?
It is part of the Wolves of Steel Mod
I have one question: what if the target has an optical range bigger than 40? And what do you do if the AOB is greater than 90? Also, the grading is imprecise when its starts to get near 90 degrees.
Please note that this method only works at the maximum magnification of your scope. If the target has an optical range that is greater than 40, then you don´t really need to aim any more to hit it :D. If the target is sailing away from you then the AOB is greater than 90°. In that case you need to subtract whatever result you get with the RAOBF from 180°
This was very helpful, many thanks!
Hast du ein anderen Scale Mod für RAOBF mit der einzel Einzeleinteilung? Ich hab da nur ne 2er Einteilung mit einer 10 als Markierung, finde deine schöner.
Ich hab das was in Wolves of Steel standardmäßig dabei ist. Also kein Extramod
@@Tonci87 ich hab eine gefunden die geht, wenn man die Masthöhe nicht auf die Kommastelle genau hat ist der Rest schon falsch.
Really good tutorial. Thanks.
But I'm still confused with the speed measurement red line. I mean there are 3 red lines. How should i know which one to use?
I'm pounting to the red line with my mouse, sorry if it is hard to see in the video. You use the middle red line that is pointing upwards and to the right
@@Tonci87 Thanks for the quick response.
I did a little googling and I think that the red line (middle one or the bottom one) should be chosen by the current scope zoom (x1.5 / x6). Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's pretty hard to find information for that.
@@Archydemon There is a difference in meassuring AOB and Distance if you switch to a 1.5x zoom, but how you read the speed is always the same. The ship will take just as much time to pass through the center of your scope in x6 zoom as it does in x1.5 zoom :)
What do you use for your ship recognition suit? I am using the wolves of steel as well however it just has the basic pages that pull up that give you virtually no informaiton.
The recognition manual is part of TWOS. You might have to drag it out from the left side of the screen
The one thing i can't get at the moment - at what moment you should fire torpedoes on 90 deg. Angle, 340,350 bearing? And what about that 0 gyroangle value...
If you are in a 90° Position and you have set up your TDC accordingly (AOB 90 at bearing 0 and target speed), you turn your Periscope until the Gyro angle is 0. You fire when the target passes your crosshair. The Gyro angle determines by how much the torpedo will turn once it has left the tube. Gyro angle 0 means that the Torpedo will go in a straight line.
You will notice that the bearing at which your gyro angle is 0 is determined by the targets speed (and your torpedo speed setting). The faster your target is, the more you will have to turn your periscope from the 0° bearing until your gyro angle is 0.
@@Tonci87 thank you for the answer
How to calculate the lead?
I spent an entire day on a single merchant ship but keep missing the target. It is 3.6 km away and i cant really get any closer, otherwise i will be detected.
If you follow this tutorial you should have no issues setting up a good shot at that range. Is there a specific thing you are having trouble with?
@@Tonci87i did understand the methods of calculating speed, range and aob. But, i didnt understand the gyroscope thing.
When encountering a contact, i aim my crosshairs at it, press space, tell the torpedo man to auto identify it and then look itu up on the ERM. I used the u jagd and raobf to calculate speed, range and then aob. Then i set up the attack disk which usually tells me where to turn so that i have a 90 deg aob. My problem is the final part of it... knowing when to shoot
What i did was i fired right when the ship crosses my crosshair. My periscope was set in a way that both of my gyroscope gives a 0 degree reading. Missed
There is a pdf explaining how to get the lead angle, however im not very familiar with the back side of the attack disk (and worsened by very little of image explaining step by step)
Also after firing, do torpedoes turn to the bearing we are aiming at before we press the fire button or do they always travel straight after firing?
@@vortex6818 Ah I see, I think I might know where the problem is. By the way, you do not need the backside of the attack disc at all. Try this if you want to set up a 90° attack: Get the targets speed and course. Set yourself up on a 90° angle to the targets course. Point you periscope straight forward at bearing 0°. Press the little button to activate the manual TDC input. Set AOB to 90° left or right (depends on the side the target is showing you). Enter the targets speed. Press the button again. You will now notice that your gyroangle (This btw. is how much the torpedo will turn once it leaves the tube. 0° = straight run) is NOT 0°. Now turn your periscope until the gyro angle is at 0° (By how much you had to turn your periscope is your lead angle btw.). Fire once the target is in your crosshairs. I think your problem is that you are setting up the data for a 90° shot while looking at your target, is that right? But once you turn your periscope the angle has changed.
@@Tonci87 roget that, will try it out thanks!
Superb video, thanks for the explanation.👍
what if our stopwatch says it is more than 60 seconds to take its itself lenght
Then you have a very very slow target. You will not miss. You can also use the RAOBF to get the speed
Thank you for the good content, great job!
hey guys,
i've got a question regarding the campaign and promotion points.
i started the first campaign and requested the eastern costal waters mission. i finished it and got some promotion points for that.
than i requested the mission on the west. i delivered the spy and shoot some ships two. i finished my patrol but didnt get any points for that.
im doing the weserübung right now. after i reconed one of the ports the small symbol on ther upper left of the screen, that showed wich mission you requested disappeard. im afraid i wont get any points for this mission too, although i shoot some ships at narwick.
what am i doing wrong?
is it needed to request the missions or could i just fo them without requesting? will i get any points for that?
i know there is a way to "cheat" those points, but i wanna work it out.
would be very thankfull for your help!
Hard to tell what went wrong there, but I wouldn´t worry too much about it. You will receive more than enough promotion points during the campaigns. I had my crew maxed out at the end of 1942
a BIG help to me...thanks
Thank you for this, very helpful tutorial.
I am wondering how you can extend this technique to a convoy/multiple ship attack. Multiple ships with different speeds seems like quite the challenge when playing in full realism. Convoys are probably easier since all ships move at the same speed and have the same course, so only AOB/range changes.
In any case, a multiple attack tutorial would also be very much appreciated :).
The whole point of the TDC is to make attacking multiple targets on the same course and speed easy. If your firing solution is sound the you can fire at one target then track left or right to fire at another and they'll all hit assuming identical courses and speeds independent of range. The TDC updates the AOB as you move the scope. With most solutions range is also mostly unimportant. It has some effect with the parallax of torpedoes that have to turn out of the tubes but for straight no gyro shots its meaningless except to your stop watch, assuming your soultion is accurate enough.
If you spend time getting a perfect solution for a convoy attack you can fire all your torpedoes at 2 or 3 targets and hit all of them. The only real extra finesse would be timing your shots so they all mostly hit at the same time.
Multiple attack is actually not that hard, depending on what you want to shoot. If you want to hit three different targets all in a different row and column in the convoy, yeah that is hard. But hitting three targets in the same row is pretty easy. If you set up a 90 degree angle on first target, take distance and speed. Set periscope to zero degrees and put in the data. Then when turning the periscope will adjust the TDC data.
I have been thinking about different approaches about this. For example hit three hits around the same time by targeting the middle ship of the row. Fire impact torpedo (at slow speed maybe) at zero gyroangle, then 1 magnetic torpedo (fast speed) to the port and starboard ships, which will have different gyroangles, but if the magntics work that should not be a problem.
Stil have to try this out. I do think the early torpedoes had really unreliable magnetic triggers, so maybe go for impact anyway. Love this game.
which red line do you use the one closest to the targets length or the same one your using
Can you please give me the time in the video where this is not clear?
@@Tonci87 yeah im sorry i was mishearing you i figured it out last night.
I'm still confused by this video tutorial, I need more explanation by the question, do you have discord?
Sorry, no Discord. If you have questions, I will try to answer them here in the comments.
Thanks for this. Its been very helpful I've liked it and all that good stuff to try and help your channel 👍
Thanks for the great video! helps me alot!
If you are on the opposite side of the ship you have to use the red portion of the angle of bow measurer and read off your attack bearing on the innermost circle or something like that, am i correct? It was the only way i could make my calculations make sense and i am on the opposite side of the ship compared to where you are in this vid.
Yes, if you are on the other side of the ship, then you have to use the red side of the bearing disc. But you should still be able to use the same bearing rings
@@Tonci87 Thank you!
While i have you here, if you don't mind. How come the range to the target doesn't matter when you do it like this? I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but i don't understand how the range can be irrelevant even tho it clearly seems to be.
@@Coinkidoink This only works if you are positioned at a 90° angle to the targets course.
Your TDC knows the speed of your Torpedo, and you have entered the targets speed into the TDC.
If you now turn your periscope until the Gyro angle is 0° you will know when to fire so that your torpedo will travel straight until it collides with the target. Your TDC calculates the solution for a triangle.
Draw a triangle where your boat is Point A, a line straight out from your boat representing the torpedo path to point B where it intersects the targets course at 90°. Point C will represent the target, and will be somewhere along the target course line. The line from A to C should be drawn at an angle that represents you looking at a bearing where your gyro angle will be 0. The angle depends on the speed of the target. A faster target means a bigger angle. The triangle now shows the situation when you shoot the torpedo.
Your TDC knows that the torpedo will need x seconds to arrive at point B. It also knows how fast the target is travelling. So the TDC now calculates at what point the target will also need x seconds to go from C to B and it sets the gyro angle accordingly.
So what happens if you move the line with the targets course farther away from point A? The torpedo path gets longer, and the travel path of the target gets longer until it reaches point B. Your angle at A will stay the same though, because the torpedo and the target now both need y seconds to meet at B.
@@Tonci87 Ah, i understand, thank you!
Echt gutes Tutorial. Ich frage mich aber ob man vor dem Schuss nochmal die Distanz nachstellen muss? Das müsste ja einen Unterschied beim Vorhaltewinkel (Bearing beim Schuss->Gyrowinkel) machen. (Vorallem, wenn man auf größere Distanzen schießt. Hier war sie am Ende ja relativ klein)
Wenn du feuerst, so dass der Torpedo bei 90° AOB trifft, ist die Distanz irrelevant, solange du die Geschwindigkeit richtig geschätzt/gemessen hast.
@@Tonci87 Danke. Das ging schnell.
@@simsch97 Gerne
Ich würde aufhören dieses spiel without this hilfe T_T
Here is what is causing me trouble: Wouldn't the angle on bow change how fast the vessel crosses the reticule for a given speed? The angle on bow is not used to calculate vessel speed and that seems wrong.
Correction: It appears that the time the vessel takes to cross the reticule is in fact *insensitive* to angle-on-bow. It takes the vessel equal amounts of time to traverse it's own length regardless of what angle it is viewed from. However we can still assume there will be difficulty in accurately determining this time when the angle is low.
Yes exactly :)
my ship recognition manual doesnt open it says OK and 2 yellow icons on the corners of the book but i cant open it anyone know why?
Go to www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2688303#post2688303 and post a screenshot of your issue. That is the best way to get help.
How do i open identification book?
Look for the little handle of the book on the left edge of your screen and pull it out (activate documents first of course)
Weißt du, ob der RAOBF auch einen deutschen Namen hat? Gabs den genau so bei der U-Flotte?
Doppebild Entfernungs- und Zielkurswinkelschätzer
Stell es dir vor wie den Stadimeter, nur das man das überlappende Bild auch horizontal verschieben konnte bis der Bug das Heck berührte. Abhängig von der eingestellten Länge und vorher gemessenen Entfernung konnte dann der Lagewinkel abgelesen werden. Im Laufe des Krieges wurden neue Boote irgendwann nicht mehr damit bestückt, wahrscheinlich aus Kostengründen.
okay so years ago I played first sh than sh3 which I loved now years later this sh5 with mods like this for the first time yeah my brain hurts but I'm learning something I was not taught in school
great video dude
ich hab da eine sache nicht gecheckt, muss man sich jetzt immer mit dem bug richtung ziel stellen und dann die ganzen messungen vornehmen?
der AOB und die attack disc hat iwie nicht gefunzt, habs nicht geschafft nach all den daten mich auf den 90° kurs zum ziel zu stellen.
Mit dem Bug Richtung Ziel muss man sich nur für die Geschwindigkeitsmessung stellen. Es wäre gut wenn du identifizieren könntest an welchem Schritt sich bei dir Fehler einschleichen. Für die Kursermittlung benötigt man den Lagewinkel, und für den die Entfernung. War die den richtig gemessen?
@@Tonci87
hab den fehler gefunden, hab bei der attack disc das erste ding auf die falsche skala gelegt und dann falsch abgelesen.
eine frage hätte ich aber noch, unzwar wie is das wenn das bearing auf 270 zb ist. die attack disc geht ja nur bis 180.
@@tripplesix8459 Welches Bearing ist gerade gemeint? Die Attack Disc hat für Bearing und Kurs 360°.
Oder meinst du den Lagewinkel wenn der über 90° hinausgeht, also das Ziel von dir wegdampft? In dem Fall wird der ja wieder kleiner. Du erhältst den korrekten Winkel wenn du das errechnete von 180° abziehst.
@@Tonci87
ja den lagewinkel meine ich
d.h. wenn ich n bearing von 270 hab muss ich 270-180 rechnen?
ich hatte mich jetzt auch nicht mit dem vorderen bug richtung feind gestellt, sondern die berechnung direkt aus der ausgangsstellung dieser mission vorgenommen.
@@tripplesix8459 Vergessen wir mal den eigenen Bug. Der Lagewinkel ist nichts anderes als, der Winkel zwischen dem Kurs des Ziels, und deiner Position, vom Ziel aus gesehen. Wenn das Ziel also genau auf dich zukommt ist der Lagewinkel 0. Dampft es genau von dir weg ist der Lagewinkel 180. So weit klar?
Kommt das Ziel auf dich zu, und du siehst die rechte, also die Steuerbordseite des Ziels, wird der Lagewinkel irgendwo zwischen 0 und 90° Steuerbord liegen.
Dampft das Ziel von dir weg und du siehst die Steuerbordseite, wird der Lagewinkel irgendwo zwischen 90 und 180° liegen.
Das selbe nochmal für die Backbordseite mit 0-90° Backbord und 90-180° Backbord. Einen Lagewinkel 270° gibt es deshalb gar nicht.
Deshalb bin ich so verwirrt wenn du von Bearing 270° sprichst. Oder meinst du doch den Wert den du in deinem eigenen Periskop ablesen kannst, also deine eigene Blickrichtung?
Awesome!
I can clearly see that range in fact did not matter (no way that tanker was still almost 3,000 m away) but I was wondering why that is? Would appreciate some explanation.
Still a great video!
That is hard to explain without drawing a picture. But basically imagine this, or draw it if it helps: A triangle with our ship, the enemy ship at the position where we shoot, and the enemy ship at the position where we hit it as the corner points.
Our TDC knows how fast our torpedo is going. That is the side of the triangle from our boat to the point of impact.
We also know how fast the enemy is travelling. That will be the side from the enemies position where we fire, to the point of impact. Since we attack at an 90° angle the other two angles in the triangle have to add up to 90°.
The Range does not matter because with a 90° angle the ratio between target and torpedo speed always remains the same. So imagine we drag the corner with the impact point away from our submarine. The sides of the triangle will expand at the same ratio.
The thing that will not be changing is the angles.
If we change the distance from our submarine to the point of impact, the target will always remain on the line that is formed from our submarine to the targets position when we fire.
We will always see it at the same bearing when we fire, regardless of the range.
That bearing is calculated by the TDC based on the torpedo and target speed. Basically at bearing x the target will take how many seconds to arrive at bearing 0? When will the time to impact be equal for the target and the torpedo?
This is a very crude explanation, and I am sorry if it doesn´t help.
There used to be an animated GIF that showed the problem easily. But basically, when a line of ships is crossing your bow at 90 degrees to your heading, with a 90 degree AOB if you fire on zero gyro angle it will hit any ship that crosses the vertical reticle at any distance. This make sit hugely convenient when a convoy of ships passes in front of you with nice neat rows and columns of ships. Your sub is pointed 90 degrees to the convoy course, but your scope will be pointed 10 degrees or so to the left or right for zero gyro angle. As the farthest column ship passes your reticle, you fire. Then the next closes ship will cross, fire again. Then the next closest ship, fire again, then the next closest ship, fire again. If you have the speed set properly, and the ships don't spot your torpedoes and alter course/speed, each ship will be hit nearly simultaneously.
How do you bring the recon manual up? 0:45
Do you see the little brown brass tab on the right side of the recognition manual? Look for that on the left side of your screen after you press E. Grab it with your mouse and pull it out.
Very awesome tuto , do u still playing Sh5 ?
Yes, there will be another video this week
@@Tonci87 o men that great , im stuck on the installation of sh5 n wos on my pc , idk why its not working !
@@666wolffy You should ask for help in the WOS thread on Subsim
@@666wolffy Sorry, but no. There are other people on Subsim who are far more familiar with TWOS issue than me, so you should really ask in the thread there to receive competent help.
Many thanks for this fantastic vid! You have inspired me to return to SH5 -Wolves of Steel after 5 years! I hope to see you online kaleun. Ktl. KUrtz.
Hi! I love this game. Unfortunately I uninstalled it back in the day because it gave me a blue screen.
This year I have decided to install it on w10, a gtx1070ti, with this megamod and ..... windows blue screen returns ...... :(
Can someone tell me how to avoid this?
Thank you!
Hi there, unfortunately I can not help with that. However, people on subsim.com might be able to. Here is the link to the TWOS issues thread: www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=238315
Man, you shot at point blank range !
No needs of calculation LOL!
Nice tutorial anyway =)
Really good tutorial there friend, sorry to bother, but i have some problems my dude, and i don't know what to do about it. (i already searched but i couldn't understand nothing D:)
Imagine we have only the range, but to find the AOB, is getting on my nerves, everytime it goes past 90 inner scale, and i don't know the OAB. Moving right to left, away, (x6) Periscope Bearing = 350 / Ship lenght= 110 / Distance to target = 2500, let's say i got 20 ticks, i go for it, and it passes 90, what should i do?
Usually that is an indication that your range reading is wrong.
It happens.
In such a situation I say trust your gut feeling. The target should be close to 90°, so, add or subtract (depends if the target is going towards you or away from you) about 10° and go for it. It won´t matter too much if you are off by a few degrees.
If you feel something might be wrong with your game, there is an AOB and range finder script that you can start in the automation menu. I think it is in Tutorials->Sub. That might help you to check your results for possible errors. For example, if you regularly get a wrong range reading, it might help you to figure out why this happens.
Another tip for you, if a target is going away from you, you have to subtract the AOB that you read off on the RAOBF from 180°.
@@Tonci87 Ok ok, thanks man, really, appreciate it. Normally the range is right, i use the standimeter to see if its right too, and it's a pretty close value D:. But appreciate it.
@@icarogibson5743 No problems, I´m glad if I can help somehow.
Great job!!! Very helpful. Keep it up :) How about 4 bearings method?
Best Regards
Thank you, I'm not using the 4 Bearings method that very often, but I'll see what I can do.
Dude I'm losing my head, How do you get from 15 to 60 AoB I just didn't get it can someone please help me ?
I´m not sure what you mean. 62° is the course that the target ship is sailing on, not the AOB
@@Tonci87 my problem is around this step, I can get the range, and the length of the ship but always when I try to do this last step on the RAOBF I just don't get it, this degree you got where it came from ? how do you get it cause I followed every step and I cound't see how it works
@@Tonci87 Wait false alarm, my bad I just needed to take a break from the tutorials and I saw what I understood wrong sorry for the uncovinience -w-'
@@Tonci87 I misunderstood 16 for 60 thats why I freaked out causa that make nosense to me im really sorry, but I'm happy to see that you keep replying even your 2 years old videos, your tutorials has been helping me a lot along the years..
@@damiem6172 No Problem, I read all of the comments, and and I´m always happy to help
nice
Doesn't the AOB effect the speeed measuremnt with the clock ?
Hi there, no it doesnt. At speed x the target will always take the same time to pass in front of you regardless of the AOB.
I've really fallen in love with SH5. I've played U-Boat games ever since, but hardly understood what I was doing and succeeded through mere luck. Now 'I can't get enough complexity. I love the "Das Boot" -like Theme and so on, but I cannot enjoy all the "historical accurate" mods with all the nazi shit in them. I reinstalled SH5 two days ago and when searching for mods I left out Wolves of Steel because of that this time. I liked the Anti-Nazi-Party tone in Das Boot and Vanilla SH, but seeing all that Swastikas makes me want to sink each and every ship between Danzig and Bremerhaven. Maybe I'll give a modded SH4 a try or further go into U-Boat, though it's enerving in controls and micro management.
TWOS includes an optional mod that will remove the flag from your Sub, so the only times when you will see the flag is in port. (You will of course also see the Swastika on various charts and documents). I understand your feelings, but I'll rather put up with a few flags, in the end it is historically accurate, than to miss out on TWOS.
@@Tonci87 I didn't know that. Thank you. I'll have a look into the files later and maybe implement my own flags like a pirate flag or sth. Great Vids anyway!
im too dumb to figure this out
Keep trying
Mach mal ein deutsches Tutorial bitte