My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek My Merch Store: cuiv.myspreadshop.com/ For any affiliate link purchases, make sure to accept cookies if prompted! Also, browser plugin "Honey" may steal commissions from creators if you interact with it (even just clicking on "OK" to the "No coupons found" message)! Note that in terms of clearance, I've noticed a scenario where an electronic focuser bracket could snag on the USB cable connector (even 90 degrees) with a "low to the dovetail" telescope like the SQA85 - can be avoided by rotating the imaging train or sliding the dovetail further down, but just be careful when first setting up and slew manually to check for any collisions! Purchase the WAVE 150i: bit.ly/3V7HqZq (Agena) or bit.ly/4dFwF8h (HPS) or tinyurl.com/44fm3a32 (FLO) or tinyurl.com/4nm8d3zj (Astroshop EU) WAVE 150i Tripod: bit.ly/3V7HqZq (Agena) or bit.ly/4itTo9o (HPS) or tinyurl.com/2jkwp5pb (FLO) or tinyurl.com/5n6ust5n (Astroshop EU) WAVE Extension Tube: bit.ly/41oRC3y (Agena) or bit.ly/41wpQBY (HPS) or tinyurl.com/3ywefddx (FLO) or tinyurl.com/mr32y9jw (Astroshop EU) WAVE Counterweight Kit: bit.ly/3BlO5II (Agena) or bit.ly/4g88gsO (HPS) or tinyurl.com/363crccv (FLO) or tinyurl.com/y26y77h7 (Astroshop EU) Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/49XTx01 Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R First Light Optics affiliate: tinyurl.com/yxd2jkr2 All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV Astroshop eu Affiliate: tinyurl.com/2vafkax8
The one thing people don't realize is that if you put less strain on your gear, you will wear them less and they will last longer like new. That is why good balance is probably much more important then people think.
To date there has been no serious reviews of the new Sky Watcher mounts by anybody. I am so glad that you are testing this mount. This is the one I have been waiting on. Thank you very much. I have not even watched the review yet. I’m just really glad you’re doing it.
The AM5N was probably the single best thing i ever bought for this hobby, certainly in the last few years. I struggled for years with my old cgem dx, sometimes it worked sometimes not. It was so heavy that i didnt want to bother setting it up when it wasnt 100% perfect conditions. Now, the am5n is so light i set it up right on my deck. I shot more in the past 4 months than i have the past few years.
Why bother at all, just get AI to do all your astronomy for you.... You can wake up to a perfect picture in the morning while you drink your coffee and take credit for it all.. 🙂
Hi Cuiv. I just bought the Wave 150i in the EU for € 2270,50. The cheapest AM5N I could find over here was € 2584,00 at the same day. Can't wait for this mount to be delivered and maybe catch a few clear nights at the end of winter.
Excellent video, Cuiv. I know you put a lot of work into making it. I am looking into this mount to replace my CGX for the 11" EdgeHD scope. I do have the AM3 mount for my smaller scopes and am impressed with it. However, I like the idea of the slightly heavier payload capability over the AMN5 and the fact you can balance the rig with the SkyWatcher WAVE 150i
I am using the original AM5 with the C11 and 3.5kg counterweight, reduced to 1860mm and 4.6um pixels. It seems to do quite fine (sometimes excellent), however I would rather purchase something like the HAE69 for such setup.
Thanks for doing this. I am stepping up to a C9.25" EDGE from a Sky-Watcher 6" Newtonian, and after watching your review I have just purchased the Wave-150i to go with it.
Thank you for the review, Cuiv. The 150i has several improvements over my first-generation AM5, particularly in cable routing and power distribution options. I have always tried to balance my scopes on the AM5 as well as possible, and my main reason for this is to distribute the weight more evenly across lighter tripods. There will always be torque and bending in the tripod when you shift the weight from one side of the pier to the other,
But the bending happens so slowly while the mount moves through the night, that it for sure will be compensated via the guide cam correction. My assumption..
Thanks for this really in-depth review. I received my sky watcher a couple weeks ago and I’m just now in the process of building testing, etc. etc. it really helps to have another set of eyes doing the exact same thing. I’m doing it with a lot of the same gear by the way, thanks Cuiv you’re the best
Nice review Quiv, well explained as you always do. One thing though, I've seen about three or four reviews about this mount and also a whole lot about other strainwave mounts, but nobody is testing these mount with heavy payloads, everyone uses lightweight telescopes. I hope someone on YT wants to test these strainwave mounts with heavy payloads about 20kg. That would be interesting to see how they hold up against other type of mounts
Thanks! I've been trying to decide between this and the AM5N, as well as the WD20 (which is a bit out of my price range). Good review as always. I'm leaning towards the 150i mostly due to the cable routing upgrades. Not having to worry as much about cabling gives some peace of mind. The ability to balance is a bonus.
Thanks for the review, Cuiv. I purchased this mount recently and have been fortunate to use it most nights this week. The wave 150i does have Bluetooth connectivity which works seamlessly through SynScan which is great for field use. I have been tracking mostly in 0.35-0.47 rms range and that’s without counterweights while using it on my Leofoto photographic tripod with my Esprit 100 as I am waiting for the SkyWatcher metal tripod to be released possibly this month. The azimuth knobs are hard to turn, so I loosen both all the way before I polar align. I do really like this mount. It has the very solid feel as a much larger mount. It might possibly work with a C11 payload if balanced with counterweights on a metal tripod. There is a video on RUclips of it swinging around a C14. Things I wish it had are first a hardware park function like the AM5N, and easier to turn azimuth knobs, but I have to say there is no play once this mount is adjusted for polar alignment, and it stays there.
Thank you for this excellent review of this Skywalker strainwave mount, Cuiv! I love all your great reviews! This really helps educate all amateur astronomers!
Your videos are never too long when they are interesting. This is one good ewxample. I learned so much again. Many thanks Cuiv. Respectfully, Henri-Julien
Excellent and thorough review, thank you! 🙏 I appreciate how much work mount reviews are. The Sky-Watcher gear has the advantage of great support and after-sales service, at least here in North America. Versus a product bought direct from a Chinese internet sales site.
Thanks Cuiv, you answered by questions regarding being able to use EQ-MOD with the SW Wave mounts. With the quality of life additions, this may convince me to purchase this over a ZWO AM3/5N.
Thanks for another top-level review, Cuiv 👍. With respect to the ability to balance in RA, I envisage that one advantage of this is to reduce the risk of the mount tipping over when unbalanced whilst carrying a heavy scope, esp'y in windy conditions. But this won’t really be alleviated by achieving a fine balance - ' near enough' should be good enough...🤔
Thanks for discussing the Phd2 guiding assistant results. I like seeing the numbers as well as the drift graphs displayed by the log viewer. I like knowing how well a mount works mechanically without corrections.
Nice review Cuiv! I’ve had my eye on that mount since I saw it at NEAF. Strong and with good features. Thank you for your review Best regards Luis from NY
Appreciate the review. I've been using mine for a few weeks and did a couple of videos on my setup and wiring, and haven't regretted the purchase at all. 100% get the right angle bent cables, makes it much better with the spacing. I also have a EQ6R, and got this to set up 2 rigs at once, and I am not coming from being an ASIAIR user (thought I do have ZWO cameras) - so I feel like this could become an "Android vs iPhone" type argument with astrophotographers and getting locked into certain ecosystems. If you have all ZWO stuff and you are an ASIAIR user, it is hard to justify this over the AM5N. The more I use it the more I really like it. It is highly portable, and the wiring panel that doesn't move has been a game changer for me (peace of mind is priceless). I have been using EQMOD and NINA with much success, and easy to setup and use. My guiding is consistently between 0.5 and 0.8, and I don't really do much to optimize it. The biggest thing for me was losing the polar scope (like most newer mounts), as I have always been good visually finding my polar alignment super fast. Doing it through software technically takes me longer to do than it ever did on the EQ6R, BUT that being said I am getting the best polar alignments I ever had. People that get this and plan to control it with EQMOD or GSS should make sure to do the auto home in synscan at least once, because initially I found synscan and EQMOD couldnt agree on what home was. Mostly using it for my smaller refractors, and havent really tried my longer focal length (like ES127). I'm not sure I trust the lightweight tripods yet, though others have been using them successfully. I am planning to get the adapter to attach the 150i to the EQ6R tripod if I need to use it for my bigger scope for stability. But since I still have my EQ6R I just put the big scope on that when I am setting up both rigs. But my 2 cents, I think it performs just as good (if not technically better) than my EQ6R (and that mount is a beast). A worthy addition to anyone's inventory, even if Sky-watcher was a bit late to the game compared to ZWO.
Hey Cuiv.....many thanks for the review. I got my 150i a couple weeks ago and have been watching daily for your review on it. I also appreciate your responding to my CN post when I was mentioning I was looking for your review and that you said it was coming soon! Not sure what was with that other guy being a jerk about your comment on the cables and the dovetail, but you handled it very well and classy! Another plus for me was the ability to use my existing AZ-EQ6 hand controller. I just plugged it in and it worked. Now I can use it for visual and hold the HC and push buttons without looking, and bounce all over the night sky rather than tapping on an I-phone or I-pad screen! Hey Brentless...I really enjoyed your video review and took you up on your idea of getting the TC40 tripod and PE200 pier extension rather than the SW version. It came with the adapter that I can use with my AZ-EQ6 tripod! Works great!....Thanks!
I'd say one benefit is that it isn't ZWO. Not that I don't have plenty of gear from them, but it's starting to seem like it may not be a bad idea not to put all your eggs in that basket... Sure, I'm a heavy user of the ASIAir, I have ZWO cameras and EAF, but it looks like they might be trying to build a walled garden. That being said, I do have a skywatcher eq6-r mount already, it's perfectly suited to my setup and is doing great. The only reason I'd have to upgrade right now is to have a mount that's a bit lighter and will support a bigger scope in the indeterminate and distant future. In any case, I made sure to click your amazon affiliate link before checking out with a cart I already had for non-astro stuff lol. Figure it doesn't hurt, especially after learning way more about how affiliate links work given the recent honey scandal.
Yeah, ZWO already has a walled garden with ASIAir and cameras, focusers, rotators, filter wheels! The mounts are the only element that's not walled! And thanks for the Amazon cart! 😂
Cuiv, Thanks for another, as always, well-thought-out review. Question: Is the SW CF tripod any better than the ZWO version? You've commented on the latter several times in the past, thus the question.
It boils my brain that an unbalanced mount like a strain wave can track so well. I was sure you were going to say it worked better with the counterweight. I'll have to go back and remind myself how they work. Great stuff thanks :)
17:10 this knob looks like a spring-loaded, where you can change the lever orientation by pulling it and rotating independently, so you can have it on either side in theory
Thank you for the excellent review of the 150i! I'm just wondering if the 150i's little brother 100i can also be seen as a (budget) alternative for the AM5N. Given the fact that the 100i is about 800 euros cheaper than the AM5N in Europe it looks like an interesting option.
I bought the AM5 about 18 months ago. Very pleased with it. Certainly easier to use than my old EQ6. But I have to say that if this had been around I’d have gone for it mainly because of the through mount wiring option. I ended up adding a Pegasus Astro pocket powerbox to tidy up cable management so the total cost is very similar. My EQ6 was about 12 years old. It’ll be interesting to see if these new harmonic mounts prove to have the same longevity. Let’s hope so given their cost!
Hi Cuiv, good review. I bought a wave 100i six months ago, apart from needing to install a driver update to get it to auto guide it has been working really well. This mount was actually cheaper than the AM3, which is the ZWO equivalent, here in the UK when I bought it. In alt az mode you can use the provided spare saddle plate which enables the use of two scopes, one either side of the mount. I haven't used this yet, but probably will when the sun gets a bit higher so I can use my Ha solar scope and a small refractor with a solar filter for white light viewing and imaging. Currently I don't use any counter weights as the heaviest scope I use with it is a W.O. GT81 so they are not necessary. My guiding figures are a little bit worse than yours but some of that is down to me not setting it up properly ( still getting used to using it). It doesn't help that I have a major road at the end of my back yard, I always get much better guiding later at night when the traffic more or less stops for five or six hours. I can't comment on how the Wave 100i compares to the AM3 as I have only ever used Sky Watcher EQ mounts and trackers. I've always been happy with them and I am certainly happy with the 100i. It does suffer from the same issue with the plugs as the 150i and unlike its big brother, the sockets do move, but apart from that, no problem.
Yeah as a strictly visual observer myself, I kinda wish the 150i came with that extra saddle for the dual mounting. I have a C9.25, so I'm not sure the 100i would quite cut it for me, since the point of me getting these mounts would be to no longer need to keep changing weights whenever I change scopes on my current mount setup. Good to hear the 100i works well as well though.
Lovely detailed review. I am looking at this one as it is over €300 cheaper than the ZWO AM5n. If not significant drawbacks, it is surely a worthy choice.
Bonjour Cuiv! Fantastic review, as always. Also, that shot of the Crab Nebula is awesome. Fantastic detail, despite the poor seeing you get during the Winter. Kudos! BTW, with the Skywatcher mount, you have a very colourful "RBG" or "H-alpha/SII, H-beta, OIII" system going! :) FWIW...beyond the issue of weight for air travel, my other concern is the through-the-mount cabling provided in this mount (...plus the AM5N, EmCan31, etc.). The maximum current the current the cabling can handle is 5A, and the maximum for some other harmonic mounts is 3A. For those who use a Primaluce Eagle, I think that one must be able to supply 12.8V and up to 8A of current,..and I wonder if the current drawn may be more than 3A or 5A with other systems, especially if dew heaters are running, the temperature is quite low, and/or the mount is slewing. Consequently, I wonder why manufacturers have not made their through-the-mount cabling that is able to handle more than 3A or 5. :/
First point is the mount power for the 150i is a separate input so any power consumption for slewing is not being routed through the mount. Then I'd suggest measuring your ACTUAL power consumption for cameras, dew heater and anything else you'd power though the mount. I think you'd be surprised how much lower it is than you estimate. In my experience the rated power of devices is almost never going to be consumed.
Thanks mate! And yes interesting color scheme I had there 😂 yeah I wonder about the current limitation as well! My guess is that it can absolutely support more amps, but maybe they want to be conservative as a kind of CYA?
@@poruatokin Thanks for your advice. Yes, I guess the mount could be powered by a separate battery, or a splitter could feed the two power inputs. I'll have to sit down and add up the current drawn by all the devices other than the mount. Cheers :)
The black tabs that are at the top and bottom of the pier extension look like the kind that can be pulled out to rotate them independently from the set screw. They are typically spring loaded. Try pulling it out and see if it turns.
Thank you for the review, Cuiv. This mount was on my list to buy this spring when I start building the second observatory, and I've been waiting to see a thorough review on it. I am leery of SW's recommendation to avoid scopes with long focal length (I think over about 1200), but I often shoot at 2000 FL or more. Do you feel the mount would perform well with higher FL scopes?
That's a difficult one - I don't have the seeing in the Tokyo winter to make judgment calls about long focal lengths (bad seeing in summer, absolutely terrible seeing in winter here...)... On the face of it, it should be just as capable as comparable mounts like the AM5N with long focal lengths, maybe it's best to ask on CN for feedback?
Oh, C'mon Cuiv, borrow a C14 or a 10"Quattro if you need to! Please, torture that mount to the limit, lol! Kevin from Skywatcher did a very interesting test with a C14 that showed how the 150i could hold the big scope without tilting or backdriving while slewing. Anyway, nice review as usual. Thanks and clear skies!
@@CuivTheLazyGeekIt was worth the wait, I love your videos. By the way, I know this question isn't related to this mount but is the ToupTek IMX290M a good guide camera? I'm currently looking for a good and affordable guide camera to pair with m Svbony Sv106 50mm guidescope. Do you have any other good options around 110USD besides the one I mentioned? Thanks!
As far as prices go, here in Eurolandia, it's the 150i that is the cheaper one compared to AM5n. From the stores I've checked, 150i + its tripod typically costs right about the same as AM5n mount head only.
Hi Cuiv, once again a very interesting review and video, complete, precise, documented, top. I own an AM5 and by experience I had some problem with the altitude tuning (for Polar alignement): When you unlock, the mount flexure changes azimuth too and when you lock, the altitude is moving a bit so you really have to master the art of unlocking but not too much and locking but not to tight to avoid "tourner en bourrique" ;-) ie getting mad. Have you had the same experience with your AM5 and what is your experience with the SW wave 150i? Thanks again, Frédéric
Recently got an Umi17R and very happy with it and the support for questions from Proxisky. If i had the moneyI would have gone with either the Skywatcher or the Pegasus. I have finally finished divesting of all ZWO products now. Player One cameras etc. I hate the closed ecosystem of ASIair based on opensource software (but thatis just me, each to their own). 😊
Great review. I like the balancing option. I guess it might strain the mount less, if used. I am just wondering if it has a homing sensor, so that you can send the mount back into its home position after power outage. That is a must, if you want to use the mount remotely.
I am strongly considering the Wave 150i vs the AM5N because of the weight Maximum - and may be pushing 45+ lbs and I like that you can balance it. I am looking to sell my AVX since it is struggling with my 35 lb rig now.
looks nice, given the price as someone who likes to tinker i would go diy and buy 2 massive harmonics drives , they are usualy about $600 aud each, i feel like harmonics/strain wave are easy to diy over making own worm wheels.
As I do astrophotography in "beginner" mode, widefield, as I live near Paris and have no balcony, I'll stay with my star adventurer gti which works very well guided and unguided with my askar fma180 pro... but if had to choose, I'll go with the little strain wave skywatcher mount.
My set up is similar. SW AZ-gti in eq mode + FMA 180 and it's been great for wide field objects. For galaxies and other smaller DSOs, I have been weighing a few longer focal length telescopes including Newtonian astrograph (e g 6" carbon star. I wish it were 8"), SCT along with a harmonic mount. Having read and watched numerous forum posts and reviews, I still can't make up my mind between am5n and SW 150i.
Great video, I ended up picking up a eq6 r, over this in the holidays as I was able to get it on sale. Where i live, the cost for this mount + good tripod is almost 1k more than the eq6r. 😢
The EQ6 is a great setup. I run EQ5 motors on an Exos2 and it has also been fantastic. I have a few different scopes with very different weights which is the only annoying part of my setup. I hate having to be changing around weights every time depending on what scope I'm using. I want a harmonic drive mount so I can do away with that hassle. However with how much they cost, that's a lot of money to pay for just that one convenience, so it's not an upgrade I'll be doing any time soon. The 150i mount head alone is a whopping $3000 here. Ouch! My current Exos2/EQ5 full setup cost only half that, and I already thought that was pricey.
Excellent video Cuiv! Quick question: If for example you set the limits through the Synscan app to 70 degrees and then switch to Asiair, will the mount still remember the limits or it’s gonna slew to targets bigger than 70 degrees? Thanks again!
Hey Cuiv, isn't this the only mount in it's class that provides the cable management on the DEC plate in a way that eliminates cables that connect moving parts (eg from the mini PC to the mount)? If yes, this is a great plus for me. I am always worrying about dangling cables that may get stuck on something while meridian flipping or just moving from target to target.
Not the only one, but the most complete! The ZWO AM5N also has cable management on the DEC plate, but less complete. If you pair it with a 2600MC air for instance you have one power cable from the DEC plate to the camera and one USB cable to control the mount - in a way I kind of prefer the USB on the AM5N Dec as it's not a hub, but it's used to control the mount. On the 150i, if I want to control the mount from the miniPC via the USB plug on the Dec plate, unless I'm mistaken I also need to have a cable running from the USB hub port on the base plate, to the USB control port on the base plate as well! The iOptron HAE69EC also has something similar to the AM5N, and I believe some of the iOptron SWG mounts allow routing your own cables through the mount!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I have a HAE69C-EC (EC= with RA encoders). The very first HAE69's had a hole in the saddle for cables, but they don't make those anymore- i ordered one when i saw those pics with the saddle-hole, but the delivered mount had no hole and a damaged case. I returned it when the HAE69C-EC was announced. iOptron has so many variants, its hard to keep track of them all (both B or C variants have optional RA encoders). IIRC, the HAE69B has the iMate inside the saddle so no cable routing either. Even tho both have USB and 12-v ports on the saddle, i never use them since i am using wired ethernet to an ASIAir coupled to a Pegasus box. The best guiding from the HAE69C-EC with 3-sec guide pulses & ASI174 guide cam has been 0.3" but more typically 0.5" - atop a permanent pier and heavy load like TEC140 or TEC180 (~46-lbs with full gear). I also have an early Rainbow RST135 (non-encoder version). It can get 0.35" with 1-sec or 0.5 sec pulses & ASI174 on good nights, but also typically 0.5-0.8". On the RST135 (rated to 20kg w/ CW), i have only mounted small OTAs (e.g. Stowaway or FSQ106) - though during the recent total eclipse i did mount the TEC140 on the RST135 for visual. A few months back, i was running 2 rigs and got near-identical guiding errors on both the HAE69C-EC (pier) and RST-135 (tripod) but on different targets in my Bortle 5 location. If my RST135 ever dies, the 150i, WD-20 or Emcan 31 would be high on my list. One advantage is the RST135 has a 5-yr warranty tho.
the azimuth knobs lock into each other, if you loosen the one you are not going to adjust it makes the one you are adjusting very easy to turn, then when done you tighten the one you did not adjust and it locks them to where it does not move.
Thank you for the review. I was surprised there weren’t many in-depth reviews of this mount yet. You mentioned that it’s beefier than the AM5(N). I have a trusty old Celestron tripod waiting for one of these bad boys. Would the heavier mount head provide better stability on a good tripod compared to the other lightweight strainwave mounts out there?
As usual a good review Cuiv. The saddle is very small. I would like something a little bigger. As for the fixed section with all the connectors it would have been better if they mounted the connectors on other side or redesigned that box so there was a section at 45 degrees pointing away from the saddle. I don’t recall you talking about the peak-to-peak error of your specific mount. ZWO says 10 arc-seconds or less. Is the 150i better than, equal or worse than the AM5N? I am worried about the tripod. A ‘rock bad’ isn’t provided. These CF tripods can tip over very easily...!
Great review Cuiv! Great to see that the SW Wave mounts work amazingly good. I am thinking about affording the Wave 100i as I my heaviest setup is between 10 and 11kg only. The additional price to go for the 150i will most likely not pay out for me just for the internal cabling. I anyway just do to the telescope with just one cable only, all the rest of the cables are fixed to the telescope. It may replace my UMi17 as having a fourth mount does not make much sense for me as I don't have the space to place more than three tripods. The AM5 was never an option for me as in Germany it is much too expensive. In fact I also like Skywatcher gear. My first mount was a Skywatcher and I somewhat have/ had a love and hate relationship with it but I want to reactivate it. Anyone at least needs one Skywatcher mount and if I can get a second one for heavier gear that is also a plus from my point of view. 😁 Note to myself: The bloody Crap Nebula I also need to image somewhen. I need to stop imaging around it. 😂
@CuivTheLazyGeek yeah! People can say about SW gear what they want but you unbox it, set it up and once everything is powered on the stuff just works. No messing around with settings or doing this and that to make it work. I think my good old EQM-35 deserves a good cleaning session and some new grease. GS server is so much superior to all other drivers/ control panels of mounts that it is very sad that the developers do not include other brands. I love my CEM40 mount as it is by far more accurate than everything else that I have used but the iCommander is... OK let's change the subject. 😂 Same with OnStar driver. If you do not have any hand controller you cannot do certain settings via the driver nor via the Android/iOS app. Returning home with the mount seems to be a pleasant option for me. 😃
6:44 and here I was starting to think it was a better deal than the zwo stuff, now it just sounds like they did almost the same thing for a very similar price. I haven't got to touch any of these fancy mounts yet I just have the one that came with my Orion observer but even that thing came with a counterweight and a tripod, not a good tripod but considering it was a entire scope and mount with tripod for about 220$ I would expect a mount that costs over 2k to come with a counterweight and a indestructible steel tripod. On another note I'm thinking of getting a umi17 mount because of the payload capacity and the more reasonable price.
Gr8 stuff mate! Would you ot for Warp Astron WD20 or SW Wave 150i? It is an interesting comparison, isn't it Cuiv. Many blessings from Newcastle in Australia! Clear skies, Annika 🎄🍹✨ 🇦🇺
Well it's really about price. For my scopes, the WD20 is overkill and costs much more! But it has some really cool new safety features. Still, I'd probably just go for the 150i in that case. But then the 150i is more expensive than the AM5N, so I'd be looking at that as well.
I am getting a Proxisky UMi17R hopefully very soon, i ordered it at the end of November, but they are still assembling the mounts one by one, so it is a little slow. After using their Umi17 for one and a half year period, it was no question to me to get one of their mounts for my second rig.
I wonder how the guiding would be for higher focal lengths of 1400mm and 2032 with a C8 SCT with OAG. My rig is about 20lbs. I'm still wondering if the GEM would be a better fit for a C8. In my opinion, customer service would be better with Skywatcher vs ZWO. Do you think the OTA would be more stable if the saddle was larger. The saddle is slightly less than 3" long. Thanks for the review.
Most people tend to limit SW mounts (from any maker) to around 1000mm or less, they are not accurate enough whereas a conventional GEM mount can be far better if set up well.
@@poruatokin On the larger SW mounts, like iOptron HAE69C-EC (rated to 79-lb with CW), i have run my TEC180 (1260mm) with 0.35" using 3-sec guide pulses. While still new to me, my AP1100-AEx gave me 0.2" with 3" pulses using a Stowaway, but a few nights ago with the TEC180 i got 0.6-0.8" on the 1100, tho the conditions were probably not the same. go figure
This is the mount I'd like to upgrade my Exos2/Synscan EQ5 combo to. I like skywatcher and would like to stay with their mount systems. Between my EQ5 motors and Az-GTi, I'm just comfortable with their stuff. I enjoy just using their app on my phone, or just the hand controller. I kinda wish the 150i came with the extra saddle like the 100i does so that you can have a dual saddle setup. As a visual observer myself, I like that idea, but the 100i is a bit light for my C9.25, I think, and I certainly wouldn't be able to dual mount my C9.25 on the 100i. At any rate, this mount upgrade won't be happening anytime soon as it's beyond what I'm currently willing to spend. I just mostly want a harmonic drive mount so that I don't have to keep changing the weights on my Exos2/EQ5 everytime I want to use a different scope, and that's a lot of money to pay for that convenience.
Nice video, thanks for posting. Question: if your mini pc is already in the saddle, can you plug it into the USB port in the saddle to control the mount?
Great question! So you can connect the mini PC to the USB port in the saddle and then connect the main connection panel USB-A to the USB-B on the same panel! Then everything works as intended!
Having used a SWSA GTi for the last two years, I am a bit apprehensive about buying another SW mount. With that being said, this mount looks like it performs very well. I just can't decide between this or AM5n or just go with an EQ6R pro and spend half the money for a similar (maybe?) performance.
It's a tough choice! Honestly I personally would never go back to "traditional" worm gear mounts such as the EQ6R, except if we're talking premium mounts (high end Vixen, Takahashi, CEM120, Astrophysics, etc.)!
@CuivTheLazyGeek what about wind resistance? I haven't seen a comparison between any of them. I'm thinking the extra mass does help, even if it is a larger body.
I now think I understand why the power and usb on the mount base are mounted to the top instead of the rear and this is because it is also able to be used in ALT/AZ mode. Other than the cables potentially getting in the way of a long losmandy bar, I would be concerned with moisture like dew building up in the exposed connectors. I also think that the bubble level is illuminated mainly for Alt/Az mode which is very important but less important for EQ mode. One thing that may annoy people is that mount does not come with a GPS function built in like the older mounts. Thanks for the review and clear skies!
Very good points Dave, thank you! Yeah the AltAz explains that decision - and for most scopes it won't be an issue! And I hadn't noticed about the GPS at all....! I don't think I've used mount's GPS in a long time, they can get the location so easily from a smartphone!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Skywatcher mounts have always been known to have GPS but then again, the GPS is actually in the hand controller. So no hand controller, no GPS :-) Makes sense now LOL
I see this mount uses a drive belt. Any discussion in the manual if the belt needs to be retensioned is it reasonably easy to get to and perform? Perhaps that is why they make that endcap easily screwed off?
Thank you for this complet review Cuiv its confirms that I made the right investment with my Wave 150i. This rteview is much better then the AstroBackYard one. Appart from that I'm surprised you use 1s exposure time for guiding and Mn RA and DEC at 2500 level in PHD2. I thought it was not recommended to go over 950 if you have exposure time of 1s. Am I right ?
Good review. We’ll see if they can sell these over their EQ-6 and EQ-5 mounts. I assume they didn’t offer these mounts sooner because they’re going to cannibalize their traditional EQ mounts. I assume they waited for the right point in their EQ series lifetime and market, so lets hope they didn’t wait too long. Seems like a decent product, but not a mature one. Good for everyone is the strain wave mechanism part of the product is mature, so Skywatchers software so that just leaves minor mechanicals and electronics to make improvements to. Strain waves are the ultimate in portability today. Unless we’re going to star party for a week, I no longer lug an AP mount around which is a major job to pack/unpack and setup!
Strain Wave mounts are NOT the best choice for many applications. My HEQ-5 can easily match 0.5" rms, and an EQ-6 can do even better. GEM's can also track unguided if required, a SW mount absolutely requires guiding. The ONLY case where a strain wave is "better" is for portability and even that is debatable when you consider the AM5 requires a bag full of rocks to stabilize the tripod.
@@poruatokin Agree on most of your points (having recently acquired an AP1100-AEx) - but i don't leave the AP1100 on my permanent pier for extended periods so that means setup/tear-down just like my process with my SW mounts. I got into the hobby only 2 yrs ago so i started with SW mounts... The first thing i learned with my first traditional EQ mount was how much time it took to setup. With the iOptron HAE69C-EC or RST135, its easily < 15min, while the 1100 takes around an hr. Maybe i'll get faster as experience grows, but the whole process of attaching the mount to the pier (6 1/4"-20 screws for the RA base), threading the RA encoder cable thru the DEC and reciprocally threading down the wires in the DEC down the RA axis while holding the DEC axis in 1-hand, CW's precision balancing, etc is tiring. Granted, AP mount's main advantage is vastly better guiding (0.2" easily). And i'm still learning how to use NINA and all the needed plugins, other PC software (APCC+APPM), separate planetarium and PHD2. Life was certainly easier when i started with ASIAir + SW mounts, so i can understand the appeal- and will probably continue to use both.
Not sure if Sync Scan offers entire suite as ASI AIR (Autoruns (Lights and Cal Frames etc) on iPad/iPhone etc. If not, I'd still stick to AM5x series as iPad replacing the need to carry laptop in the field (No Backyard) for every imaging session. Correct me if my knowledge about SkyWatcher products and imaging is far off.
@@CosmicFireball The Sky Watcher wave mounts are, like other Sky Watcher mounts, ASIair compatible. The SynScan system is just for controlling the mount but it does have a rudimentary shutter control for certain DSLRs. I've used my wave 100i with an ASIair (mini and Plus), a Stellarmate Pro, PLL Eagle and a Laptop, it works fine with all of them. The only time I ever use the SynScan App is when I'm imagining the Sun or when I'm installing firmware upgrades, mostly I use the ASIair, it's just easier.
Here’s a question my learned friend. Is the 25kg max payload with counterweight a figure for Astrophotography? Or is that capacity for visual use? I often hear people say for Astrophotography you should half the max payload. So does this mean the max Astrophotography payload for the 150i is 25kg, or is it 12.5kg?
Cuiv, for visual usage, what configuration (laptop free) would you suggest?. I'm waiting for a Esprit 120, and plan to use for visual during a while before full astrophotography.
It looks like a nice mount. Boring and reliable should be a good thing. If I remember correctly, such mounts aren't very suitable for long focal distance scopes like my Skymax 180, correct?
Leveling the mount ensures that the latitude indicator is giving accurate information about the inclination of the mount. It's helpful but not required - you can still get the mount pointing in the right direction without it.
It'd be very interesting to see how this & the AM% do against the established strain wave manufacturers like Rainbow Astro. Are their premiums still worth paying? Possibly not.
I got the RST135 when it was the only SW mount for sale. The newer SW mounts are better value. The only advantages of the RST135 (wish i had the E version), are the 5-yr warranty and small size. To date, the RST135 is still the smallest & lightest SW mount that can carry 40-lbs with CW. I heard from 1 vendor that RST135 sales have largely disappeared after the ZWO AM5 and competitors launched
Yep, as mentioned in the video! Even then some setups (SQA85 with an EAF for instance) can be too low to the ground and could interfere with the connectors, but there are easy workarounds!
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Note that in terms of clearance, I've noticed a scenario where an electronic focuser bracket could snag on the USB cable connector (even 90 degrees) with a "low to the dovetail" telescope like the SQA85 - can be avoided by rotating the imaging train or sliding the dovetail further down, but just be careful when first setting up and slew manually to check for any collisions!
Purchase the WAVE 150i: bit.ly/3V7HqZq (Agena) or bit.ly/4dFwF8h (HPS) or tinyurl.com/44fm3a32 (FLO) or tinyurl.com/4nm8d3zj (Astroshop EU)
WAVE 150i Tripod: bit.ly/3V7HqZq (Agena) or bit.ly/4itTo9o (HPS) or tinyurl.com/2jkwp5pb (FLO) or tinyurl.com/5n6ust5n (Astroshop EU)
WAVE Extension Tube: bit.ly/41oRC3y (Agena) or bit.ly/41wpQBY (HPS) or tinyurl.com/3ywefddx (FLO) or tinyurl.com/mr32y9jw (Astroshop EU)
WAVE Counterweight Kit: bit.ly/3BlO5II (Agena) or bit.ly/4g88gsO (HPS) or tinyurl.com/363crccv (FLO) or tinyurl.com/y26y77h7 (Astroshop EU)
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The one thing people don't realize is that if you put less strain on your gear, you will wear them less and they will last longer like new. That is why good balance is probably much more important then people think.
Almost forgot, Having ability to unlock gears and balance also helps with cable management checking
To date there has been no serious reviews of the new Sky Watcher mounts by anybody. I am so glad that you are testing this mount. This is the one I have been waiting on. Thank you very much. I have not even watched the review yet. I’m just really glad you’re doing it.
Thank you!! Yes, I'm really happy to go in depth with this mount!
The AM5N was probably the single best thing i ever bought for this hobby, certainly in the last few years. I struggled for years with my old cgem dx, sometimes it worked sometimes not. It was so heavy that i didnt want to bother setting it up when it wasnt 100% perfect conditions. Now, the am5n is so light i set it up right on my deck. I shot more in the past 4 months than i have the past few years.
Same thing for me with the iOptron HEM15. Going from a mediocre mount to a modern fully automated one is a game changer...
Why bother at all, just get AI to do all your astronomy for you.... You can wake up to a perfect picture in the morning while you drink your coffee and take credit for it all.. 🙂
Same. With the asi air plus. Best purchase in years. Solved several issues that were keeping me from having sessions.
Yep, those SWG mounts are a game changer!
@@gregorywilkins1001 Idiotic comment....why not just stay in bed and have AI run your life for you. Or is this an AI bot comment?
Hi Cuiv. I just bought the Wave 150i in the EU for € 2270,50. The cheapest AM5N I could find over here was € 2584,00 at the same day. Can't wait for this mount to be delivered and maybe catch a few clear nights at the end of winter.
Excellent video, Cuiv. I know you put a lot of work into making it. I am looking into this mount to replace my CGX for the 11" EdgeHD scope. I do have the AM3 mount for my smaller scopes and am impressed with it. However, I like the idea of the slightly heavier payload capability over the AMN5 and the fact you can balance the rig with the SkyWatcher WAVE 150i
Thanks for your support! Please update us if you end up getting the mount, I'd love to hear how well it works at long focal lengths!
I am using the original AM5 with the C11 and 3.5kg counterweight, reduced to 1860mm and 4.6um pixels. It seems to do quite fine (sometimes excellent), however I would rather purchase something like the HAE69 for such setup.
Thanks for doing this. I am stepping up to a C9.25" EDGE from a Sky-Watcher 6" Newtonian, and after watching your review I have just purchased the Wave-150i to go with it.
Congrats on your new mount!!
Thank you for the review, Cuiv. The 150i has several improvements over my first-generation AM5, particularly in cable routing and power distribution options. I have always tried to balance my scopes on the AM5 as well as possible, and my main reason for this is to distribute the weight more evenly across lighter tripods. There will always be torque and bending in the tripod when you shift the weight from one side of the pier to the other,
Good point on the tripod bending, I hadn't thought of that!
But the bending happens so slowly while the mount moves through the night, that it for sure will be compensated via the guide cam correction. My assumption..
Thanks for this really in-depth review. I received my sky watcher a couple weeks ago and I’m just now in the process of building testing, etc. etc. it really helps to have another set of eyes doing the exact same thing. I’m doing it with a lot of the same gear by the way, thanks Cuiv you’re the best
Awesome mate, enjoy it!!
Nice review Quiv, well explained as you always do. One thing though, I've seen about three or four reviews about this mount and also a whole lot about other strainwave mounts, but nobody is testing these mount with heavy payloads, everyone uses lightweight telescopes. I hope someone on YT wants to test these strainwave mounts with heavy payloads about 20kg.
That would be interesting to see how they hold up against other type of mounts
Yes, that's a limitation! It's not that I don't want to! I think I need to get myself an EdgeHD11 with hyperstar for that....
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Kevin from Skywatcher has stressed the drive ruclips.net/video/GBI8dAwYf38/видео.html
Thanks! I've been trying to decide between this and the AM5N, as well as the WD20 (which is a bit out of my price range). Good review as always. I'm leaning towards the 150i mostly due to the cable routing upgrades. Not having to worry as much about cabling gives some peace of mind. The ability to balance is a bonus.
Thanks Mike! Regardless of which mount you choose, I'm sure it will work great for you - between the 150i and the AM5N, both are excellent
Thanks for the review, Cuiv. I purchased this mount recently and have been fortunate to use it most nights this week. The wave 150i does have Bluetooth connectivity which works seamlessly through SynScan which is great for field use. I have been tracking mostly in 0.35-0.47 rms range and that’s without counterweights while using it on my Leofoto photographic tripod with my Esprit 100 as I am waiting for the SkyWatcher metal tripod to be released possibly this month. The azimuth knobs are hard to turn, so I loosen both all the way before I polar align. I do really like this mount. It has the very solid feel as a much larger mount. It might possibly work with a C11 payload if balanced with counterweights on a metal tripod. There is a video on RUclips of it swinging around a C14. Things I wish it had are first a hardware park function like the AM5N, and easier to turn azimuth knobs, but I have to say there is no play once this mount is adjusted for polar alignment, and it stays there.
Thanks for the report on the mount, that's great to hear!
Thank you for this excellent review of this Skywalker strainwave mount, Cuiv! I love all your great reviews! This really helps educate all amateur astronomers!
Thanks! Glad to help! ☺️
Great review and great b-roll Cuiv!!
Thanks! Don't get too used to the B-roll :p
Your videos are never too long when they are interesting. This is one good ewxample. I learned so much again. Many thanks Cuiv. Respectfully, Henri-Julien
Thanks, I appreciate that, Henri-Julien!
Excellent and thorough review, thank you! 🙏 I appreciate how much work mount reviews are. The Sky-Watcher gear has the advantage of great support and after-sales service, at least here in North America. Versus a product bought direct from a Chinese internet sales site.
Thanks Cuiv, you answered by questions regarding being able to use EQ-MOD with the SW Wave mounts. With the quality of life additions, this may convince me to purchase this over a ZWO AM3/5N.
Yep, EQMOD is a big differentiator, using GSServer for instance felt kind of nice :)
Thanks!
Thank you!!
Yay for SkyWatcher! Bring on the competition!
Competition is always good!
Thanks for another top-level review, Cuiv 👍. With respect to the ability to balance in RA, I envisage that one advantage of this is to reduce the risk of the mount tipping over when unbalanced whilst carrying a heavy scope, esp'y in windy conditions. But this won’t really be alleviated by achieving a fine balance - ' near enough' should be good enough...🤔
Very true! Good point!
I bet you loved that barking dog, lol! Great in depth assessment. Thanks Cuiv.
I've been waiting for this one ! Thanks, Cuiv !
Cheers!
Thanks for discussing the Phd2 guiding assistant results. I like seeing the numbers as well as the drift graphs displayed by the log viewer. I like knowing how well a mount works mechanically without corrections.
My pleasure!
Nice review Cuiv! I’ve had my eye on that mount since I saw it at NEAF. Strong and with good features. Thank you for your review
Best regards
Luis from NY
Glad to help Luis! Thanks for watching!
Appreciate the review. I've been using mine for a few weeks and did a couple of videos on my setup and wiring, and haven't regretted the purchase at all. 100% get the right angle bent cables, makes it much better with the spacing. I also have a EQ6R, and got this to set up 2 rigs at once, and I am not coming from being an ASIAIR user (thought I do have ZWO cameras) - so I feel like this could become an "Android vs iPhone" type argument with astrophotographers and getting locked into certain ecosystems. If you have all ZWO stuff and you are an ASIAIR user, it is hard to justify this over the AM5N.
The more I use it the more I really like it. It is highly portable, and the wiring panel that doesn't move has been a game changer for me (peace of mind is priceless). I have been using EQMOD and NINA with much success, and easy to setup and use. My guiding is consistently between 0.5 and 0.8, and I don't really do much to optimize it.
The biggest thing for me was losing the polar scope (like most newer mounts), as I have always been good visually finding my polar alignment super fast. Doing it through software technically takes me longer to do than it ever did on the EQ6R, BUT that being said I am getting the best polar alignments I ever had.
People that get this and plan to control it with EQMOD or GSS should make sure to do the auto home in synscan at least once, because initially I found synscan and EQMOD couldnt agree on what home was.
Mostly using it for my smaller refractors, and havent really tried my longer focal length (like ES127). I'm not sure I trust the lightweight tripods yet, though others have been using them successfully. I am planning to get the adapter to attach the 150i to the EQ6R tripod if I need to use it for my bigger scope for stability. But since I still have my EQ6R I just put the big scope on that when I am setting up both rigs.
But my 2 cents, I think it performs just as good (if not technically better) than my EQ6R (and that mount is a beast). A worthy addition to anyone's inventory, even if Sky-watcher was a bit late to the game compared to ZWO.
That's some awesome feedback, thank you! I'm glad you like the mount!!
Hey Cuiv.....many thanks for the review. I got my 150i a couple weeks ago and have been watching daily for your review on it. I also appreciate your responding to my CN post when I was mentioning I was looking for your review and that you said it was coming soon! Not sure what was with that other guy being a jerk about your comment on the cables and the dovetail, but you handled it very well and classy! Another plus for me was the ability to use my existing AZ-EQ6 hand controller. I just plugged it in and it worked. Now I can use it for visual and hold the HC and push buttons without looking, and bounce all over the night sky rather than tapping on an I-phone or I-pad screen!
Hey Brentless...I really enjoyed your video review and took you up on your idea of getting the TC40 tripod and PE200 pier extension rather than the SW version. It came with the adapter that I can use with my AZ-EQ6 tripod! Works great!....Thanks!
I'd say one benefit is that it isn't ZWO. Not that I don't have plenty of gear from them, but it's starting to seem like it may not be a bad idea not to put all your eggs in that basket... Sure, I'm a heavy user of the ASIAir, I have ZWO cameras and EAF, but it looks like they might be trying to build a walled garden.
That being said, I do have a skywatcher eq6-r mount already, it's perfectly suited to my setup and is doing great. The only reason I'd have to upgrade right now is to have a mount that's a bit lighter and will support a bigger scope in the indeterminate and distant future. In any case, I made sure to click your amazon affiliate link before checking out with a cart I already had for non-astro stuff lol. Figure it doesn't hurt, especially after learning way more about how affiliate links work given the recent honey scandal.
Yeah, ZWO already has a walled garden with ASIAir and cameras, focusers, rotators, filter wheels! The mounts are the only element that's not walled!
And thanks for the Amazon cart! 😂
This is a point I've been raising for a little while now. It definitely feels like ZWO is trying to be the Apple of astrophotography.
Nice review as always. Options are great. It helps keep prices in line.
Competition for the win!
Cuiv, Thanks for another, as always, well-thought-out review. Question: Is the SW CF tripod any better than the ZWO version? You've commented on the latter several times in the past, thus the question.
It boils my brain that an unbalanced mount like a strain wave can track so well. I was sure you were going to say it worked better with the counterweight. I'll have to go back and remind myself how they work. Great stuff thanks :)
Cheers Andy!
17:10 this knob looks like a spring-loaded, where you can change the lever orientation by pulling it and rotating independently, so you can have it on either side in theory
Thank you for the excellent review of the 150i! I'm just wondering if the 150i's little brother 100i can also be seen as a (budget) alternative for the AM5N. Given the fact that the 100i is about 800 euros cheaper than the AM5N in Europe it looks like an interesting option.
I bought the AM5 about 18 months ago. Very pleased with it. Certainly easier to use than my old EQ6. But I have to say that if this had been around I’d have gone for it mainly because of the through mount wiring option. I ended up adding a Pegasus Astro pocket powerbox to tidy up cable management so the total cost is very similar. My EQ6 was about 12 years old. It’ll be interesting to see if these new harmonic mounts prove to have the same longevity. Let’s hope so given their cost!
much appreciated. I always learn something new. Thanks.
Glad to help!
I watched till the end, thanks Cuiv
Thanks mate! 😁
Hi Cuiv, good review. I bought a wave 100i six months ago, apart from needing to install a driver update to get it to auto guide it has been working really well. This mount was actually cheaper than the AM3, which is the ZWO equivalent, here in the UK when I bought it. In alt az mode you can use the provided spare saddle plate which enables the use of two scopes, one either side of the mount. I haven't used this yet, but probably will when the sun gets a bit higher so I can use my Ha solar scope and a small refractor with a solar filter for white light viewing and imaging. Currently I don't use any counter weights as the heaviest scope I use with it is a W.O. GT81 so they are not necessary. My guiding figures are a little bit worse than yours but some of that is down to me not setting it up properly ( still getting used to using it). It doesn't help that I have a major road at the end of my back yard, I always get much better guiding later at night when the traffic more or less stops for five or six hours. I can't comment on how the Wave 100i compares to the AM3 as I have only ever used Sky Watcher EQ mounts and trackers. I've always been happy with them and I am certainly happy with the 100i. It does suffer from the same issue with the plugs as the 150i and unlike its big brother, the sockets do move, but apart from that, no problem.
Yeah as a strictly visual observer myself, I kinda wish the 150i came with that extra saddle for the dual mounting. I have a C9.25, so I'm not sure the 100i would quite cut it for me, since the point of me getting these mounts would be to no longer need to keep changing weights whenever I change scopes on my current mount setup. Good to hear the 100i works well as well though.
Oh wow, thanks for the details on the 100i! It seems to be working out great!
I have an RST-135E, I don't need counterweights, but I use them to achieve good tracking without being reliant on a guide scope.
Another great video. This mount sounds interesting.
Thank you!
Lovely detailed review. I am looking at this one as it is over €300 cheaper than the ZWO AM5n. If not significant drawbacks, it is surely a worthy choice.
Bonjour Cuiv! Fantastic review, as always. Also, that shot of the Crab Nebula is awesome. Fantastic detail, despite the poor seeing you get during the Winter. Kudos!
BTW, with the Skywatcher mount, you have a very colourful "RBG" or "H-alpha/SII, H-beta, OIII" system going! :)
FWIW...beyond the issue of weight for air travel, my other concern is the through-the-mount cabling provided in this mount (...plus the AM5N, EmCan31, etc.). The maximum current the current the cabling can handle is 5A, and the maximum for some other harmonic mounts is 3A. For those who use a Primaluce Eagle, I think that one must be able to supply 12.8V and up to 8A of current,..and I wonder if the current drawn may be more than 3A or 5A with other systems, especially if dew heaters are running, the temperature is quite low, and/or the mount is slewing. Consequently, I wonder why manufacturers have not made their through-the-mount cabling that is able to handle more than 3A or 5. :/
First point is the mount power for the 150i is a separate input so any power consumption for slewing is not being routed through the mount.
Then I'd suggest measuring your ACTUAL power consumption for cameras, dew heater and anything else you'd power though the mount. I think you'd be surprised how much lower it is than you estimate. In my experience the rated power of devices is almost never going to be consumed.
Thanks mate! And yes interesting color scheme I had there 😂 yeah I wonder about the current limitation as well! My guess is that it can absolutely support more amps, but maybe they want to be conservative as a kind of CYA?
@@poruatokin Thanks for your advice. Yes, I guess the mount could be powered by a separate battery, or a splitter could feed the two power inputs. I'll have to sit down and add up the current drawn by all the devices other than the mount. Cheers :)
The black tabs that are at the top and bottom of the pier extension look like the kind that can be pulled out to rotate them independently from the set screw. They are typically spring loaded. Try pulling it out and see if it turns.
I couldn't find the link to your video about using GS server that you mentioned at about 20:18.
Thank you for the review, Cuiv. This mount was on my list to buy this spring when I start building the second observatory, and I've been waiting to see a thorough review on it. I am leery of SW's recommendation to avoid scopes with long focal length (I think over about 1200), but I often shoot at 2000 FL or more. Do you feel the mount would perform well with higher FL scopes?
That's a difficult one - I don't have the seeing in the Tokyo winter to make judgment calls about long focal lengths (bad seeing in summer, absolutely terrible seeing in winter here...)... On the face of it, it should be just as capable as comparable mounts like the AM5N with long focal lengths, maybe it's best to ask on CN for feedback?
Oh, C'mon Cuiv, borrow a C14 or a 10"Quattro if you need to! Please, torture that mount to the limit, lol!
Kevin from Skywatcher did a very interesting test with a C14 that showed how the 150i could hold the big scope without tilting or backdriving while slewing. Anyway, nice review as usual. Thanks and clear skies!
I was waiting for this video after I saw your comment on AstroBackyard's video, after 4 months of waiting haha.
Took a little bit of time 😆
@@CuivTheLazyGeekIt was worth the wait, I love your videos.
By the way, I know this question isn't related to this mount but is the ToupTek IMX290M a good guide camera? I'm currently looking for a good and affordable guide camera to pair with m Svbony Sv106 50mm guidescope. Do you have any other good options around 110USD besides the one I mentioned? Thanks!
As far as prices go, here in Eurolandia, it's the 150i that is the cheaper one compared to AM5n. From the stores I've checked, 150i + its tripod typically costs right about the same as AM5n mount head only.
That's awesome, and it makes it a bit of a no brainer!
Hi, nice video... Already bought, I'll get it tomorrow! congratulations for the channel, I always follow it.. Italy Venice🙂
Woohoo! Hope it works great for you!
Top notch review!
Hi Cuiv, once again a very interesting review and video, complete, precise, documented, top. I own an AM5 and by experience I had some problem with the altitude tuning (for Polar alignement): When you unlock, the mount flexure changes azimuth too and when you lock, the altitude is moving a bit so you really have to master the art of unlocking but not too much and locking but not to tight to avoid "tourner en bourrique" ;-) ie getting mad. Have you had the same experience with your AM5 and what is your experience with the SW wave 150i?
Thanks again, Frédéric
The old AM5 had that issue - the AM5N doesn't, neither does the 150i!
Recently got an Umi17R and very happy with it and the support for questions from Proxisky. If i had the moneyI would have gone with either the Skywatcher or the Pegasus. I have finally finished divesting of all ZWO products now. Player One cameras etc. I hate the closed ecosystem of ASIair based on opensource software (but thatis just me, each to their own). 😊
Great review. I like the balancing option. I guess it might strain the mount less, if used. I am just wondering if it has a homing sensor, so that you can send the mount back into its home position after power outage. That is a must, if you want to use the mount remotely.
No homing sensor - it seems to rely on the strain on the motors to home itself!
Nice one but the puppy really wants to go out 😊
It's the neighbor's doggo, not even a puppy, and he is outside 😂 he just loves to bark and bark and bark and bark 😂
I am strongly considering the Wave 150i vs the AM5N because of the weight Maximum - and may be pushing 45+ lbs and I like that you can balance it. I am looking to sell my AVX since it is struggling with my 35 lb rig now.
looks nice, given the price as someone who likes to tinker i would go diy and buy 2 massive harmonics drives , they are usualy about $600 aud each, i feel like harmonics/strain wave are easy to diy over making own worm wheels.
As I do astrophotography in "beginner" mode, widefield, as I live near Paris and have no balcony, I'll stay with my star adventurer gti which works very well guided and unguided with my askar fma180 pro... but if had to choose, I'll go with the little strain wave skywatcher mount.
My set up is similar. SW AZ-gti in eq mode + FMA 180 and it's been great for wide field objects. For galaxies and other smaller DSOs, I have been weighing a few longer focal length telescopes including Newtonian astrograph (e g 6" carbon star. I wish it were 8"), SCT along with a harmonic mount. Having read and watched numerous forum posts and reviews, I still can't make up my mind between am5n and SW 150i.
Great video, I ended up picking up a eq6 r, over this in the holidays as I was able to get it on sale.
Where i live, the cost for this mount + good tripod is almost 1k more than the eq6r. 😢
The EQ6 is a great setup. I run EQ5 motors on an Exos2 and it has also been fantastic. I have a few different scopes with very different weights which is the only annoying part of my setup. I hate having to be changing around weights every time depending on what scope I'm using. I want a harmonic drive mount so I can do away with that hassle. However with how much they cost, that's a lot of money to pay for just that one convenience, so it's not an upgrade I'll be doing any time soon. The 150i mount head alone is a whopping $3000 here. Ouch! My current Exos2/EQ5 full setup cost only half that, and I already thought that was pricey.
The EQ6R is a great mount! Enjoy it!
Excellent video Cuiv! Quick question: If for example you set the limits through the Synscan app to 70 degrees and then switch to Asiair, will the mount still remember the limits or it’s gonna slew to targets bigger than 70 degrees? Thanks again!
Yes, I believe that was the case when I tested it with the Touptek AstroStation (same drivers as the ASIAir!)
@@CuivTheLazyGeekthat s great to hear, thank you!
Hey Cuiv, isn't this the only mount in it's class that provides the cable management on the DEC plate in a way that eliminates cables that connect moving parts (eg from the mini PC to the mount)?
If yes, this is a great plus for me. I am always worrying about dangling cables that may get stuck on something while meridian flipping or just moving from target to target.
Not the only one, but the most complete! The ZWO AM5N also has cable management on the DEC plate, but less complete. If you pair it with a 2600MC air for instance you have one power cable from the DEC plate to the camera and one USB cable to control the mount - in a way I kind of prefer the USB on the AM5N Dec as it's not a hub, but it's used to control the mount. On the 150i, if I want to control the mount from the miniPC via the USB plug on the Dec plate, unless I'm mistaken I also need to have a cable running from the USB hub port on the base plate, to the USB control port on the base plate as well!
The iOptron HAE69EC also has something similar to the AM5N, and I believe some of the iOptron SWG mounts allow routing your own cables through the mount!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I have a HAE69C-EC (EC= with RA encoders). The very first HAE69's had a hole in the saddle for cables, but they don't make those anymore- i ordered one when i saw those pics with the saddle-hole, but the delivered mount had no hole and a damaged case. I returned it when the HAE69C-EC was announced. iOptron has so many variants, its hard to keep track of them all (both B or C variants have optional RA encoders).
IIRC, the HAE69B has the iMate inside the saddle so no cable routing either. Even tho both have USB and 12-v ports on the saddle, i never use them since i am using wired ethernet to an ASIAir coupled to a Pegasus box.
The best guiding from the HAE69C-EC with 3-sec guide pulses & ASI174 guide cam has been 0.3" but more typically 0.5" - atop a permanent pier and heavy load like TEC140 or TEC180 (~46-lbs with full gear). I also have an early Rainbow RST135 (non-encoder version). It can get 0.35" with 1-sec or 0.5 sec pulses & ASI174 on good nights, but also typically 0.5-0.8". On the RST135 (rated to 20kg w/ CW), i have only mounted small OTAs (e.g. Stowaway or FSQ106) - though during the recent total eclipse i did mount the TEC140 on the RST135 for visual.
A few months back, i was running 2 rigs and got near-identical guiding errors on both the HAE69C-EC (pier) and RST-135 (tripod) but on different targets in my Bortle 5 location.
If my RST135 ever dies, the 150i, WD-20 or Emcan 31 would be high on my list. One advantage is the RST135 has a 5-yr warranty tho.
Great work, thank you!
Thanks for your support!
the azimuth knobs lock into each other, if you loosen the one you are not going to adjust it makes the one you are adjusting very easy to turn, then when done you tighten the one you did not adjust and it locks them to where it does not move.
yeah of course! But I had both backed off a lot, at least on my sample they are not easy to turn even with both sides almost completely backed off!
Thank you for the review. I was surprised there weren’t many in-depth reviews of this mount yet. You mentioned that it’s beefier than the AM5(N). I have a trusty old Celestron tripod waiting for one of these bad boys. Would the heavier mount head provide better stability on a good tripod compared to the other lightweight strainwave mounts out there?
A good tripod would make a big difference for sure
As usual a good review Cuiv. The saddle is very small. I would like something a little bigger. As for the fixed section with all the connectors it would have been better if they mounted the connectors on other side or redesigned that box so there was a section at 45 degrees pointing away from the saddle. I don’t recall you talking about the peak-to-peak error of your specific mount. ZWO says 10 arc-seconds or less. Is the 150i better than, equal or worse than the AM5N? I am worried about the tripod. A ‘rock bad’ isn’t provided. These CF tripods can tip over very easily...!
Great review! Tell the Mr. Doggie, "It's just DHL delivering more astro gear! Chill out!"
Great review Cuiv! Great to see that the SW Wave mounts work amazingly good. I am thinking about affording the Wave 100i as I my heaviest setup is between 10 and 11kg only. The additional price to go for the 150i will most likely not pay out for me just for the internal cabling. I anyway just do to the telescope with just one cable only, all the rest of the cables are fixed to the telescope.
It may replace my UMi17 as having a fourth mount does not make much sense for me as I don't have the space to place more than three tripods.
The AM5 was never an option for me as in Germany it is much too expensive.
In fact I also like Skywatcher gear. My first mount was a Skywatcher and I somewhat have/ had a love and hate relationship with it but I want to reactivate it. Anyone at least needs one Skywatcher mount and if I can get a second one for heavier gear that is also a plus from my point of view. 😁
Note to myself: The bloody Crap Nebula I also need to image somewhen. I need to stop imaging around it. 😂
Hahaha I completely understand about SW! Using the GS server to control the mount felt like speaking with an old friend 😂
@CuivTheLazyGeek yeah! People can say about SW gear what they want but you unbox it, set it up and once everything is powered on the stuff just works. No messing around with settings or doing this and that to make it work. I think my good old EQM-35 deserves a good cleaning session and some new grease.
GS server is so much superior to all other drivers/ control panels of mounts that it is very sad that the developers do not include other brands.
I love my CEM40 mount as it is by far more accurate than everything else that I have used but the iCommander is... OK let's change the subject. 😂
Same with OnStar driver. If you do not have any hand controller you cannot do certain settings via the driver nor via the Android/iOS app.
Returning home with the mount seems to be a pleasant option for me. 😃
@@astrofromhome I love and hate OnStep! The Meridian Window (and it doubling as limits) is a horrible, HORRIBLE concept...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I hear you Cuiv, I hear you. The Meridian window is odd. 😂
Any idea on the size of the harmonic drives and the steppers? I just wonder if there has been an increase over the AM5 type mounts.
I had the AM3, upgraded to the AM5N a little more than a month ago, so I can use larger scopes.
The AM5N is really excellent as well!
We get bonuses at work now and Im trying to decide whether or not to get one of these or a really nice refractor.
It depends on what you have right now, but good luck with your choice!
6:44 and here I was starting to think it was a better deal than the zwo stuff, now it just sounds like they did almost the same thing for a very similar price.
I haven't got to touch any of these fancy mounts yet I just have the one that came with my Orion observer but even that thing came with a counterweight and a tripod, not a good tripod but considering it was a entire scope and mount with tripod for about 220$ I would expect a mount that costs over 2k to come with a counterweight and a indestructible steel tripod.
On another note I'm thinking of getting a umi17 mount because of the payload capacity and the more reasonable price.
Gr8 stuff mate!
Would you ot for Warp Astron WD20 or SW Wave 150i?
It is an interesting comparison, isn't it Cuiv.
Many blessings from Newcastle in Australia!
Clear skies,
Annika
🎄🍹✨
🇦🇺
Well it's really about price. For my scopes, the WD20 is overkill and costs much more! But it has some really cool new safety features. Still, I'd probably just go for the 150i in that case. But then the 150i is more expensive than the AM5N, so I'd be looking at that as well.
I am getting a Proxisky UMi17R hopefully very soon, i ordered it at the end of November, but they are still assembling the mounts one by one, so it is a little slow. After using their Umi17 for one and a half year period, it was no question to me to get one of their mounts for my second rig.
Getting my Sharpstar 130 out of it's case i s a royal pain in the nackside too. everything about that scope is a fight.
I wonder how the guiding would be for higher focal lengths of 1400mm and 2032 with a C8 SCT with OAG. My rig is about 20lbs. I'm still wondering if the GEM would be a better fit for a C8. In my opinion, customer service would be better with Skywatcher vs ZWO. Do you think the OTA would be more stable if the saddle was larger. The saddle is slightly less than 3" long. Thanks for the review.
the eq6r-pro is perfect for c8
Unfortunately I don't know... And Tokyo is the worst place for long focal length due to the poor seeing...
Most people tend to limit SW mounts (from any maker) to around 1000mm or less, they are not accurate enough whereas a conventional GEM mount can be far better if set up well.
@@poruatokin On the larger SW mounts, like iOptron HAE69C-EC (rated to 79-lb with CW), i have run my TEC180 (1260mm) with 0.35" using 3-sec guide pulses. While still new to me, my AP1100-AEx gave me 0.2" with 3" pulses using a Stowaway, but a few nights ago with the TEC180 i got 0.6-0.8" on the 1100, tho the conditions were probably not the same. go figure
This is the mount I'd like to upgrade my Exos2/Synscan EQ5 combo to. I like skywatcher and would like to stay with their mount systems. Between my EQ5 motors and Az-GTi, I'm just comfortable with their stuff. I enjoy just using their app on my phone, or just the hand controller. I kinda wish the 150i came with the extra saddle like the 100i does so that you can have a dual saddle setup. As a visual observer myself, I like that idea, but the 100i is a bit light for my C9.25, I think, and I certainly wouldn't be able to dual mount my C9.25 on the 100i.
At any rate, this mount upgrade won't be happening anytime soon as it's beyond what I'm currently willing to spend. I just mostly want a harmonic drive mount so that I don't have to keep changing the weights on my Exos2/EQ5 everytime I want to use a different scope, and that's a lot of money to pay for that convenience.
It's going to be a worthwhile upgrade once it happens!
Nice video, thanks for posting. Question: if your mini pc is already in the saddle, can you plug it into the USB port in the saddle to control the mount?
Great question! So you can connect the mini PC to the USB port in the saddle and then connect the main connection panel USB-A to the USB-B on the same panel! Then everything works as intended!
Having used a SWSA GTi for the last two years, I am a bit apprehensive about buying another SW mount.
With that being said, this mount looks like it performs very well. I just can't decide between this or AM5n or just go with an EQ6R pro and spend half the money for a similar (maybe?) performance.
It's a tough choice! Honestly I personally would never go back to "traditional" worm gear mounts such as the EQ6R, except if we're talking premium mounts (high end Vixen, Takahashi, CEM120, Astrophysics, etc.)!
@CuivTheLazyGeek what about wind resistance? I haven't seen a comparison between any of them. I'm thinking the extra mass does help, even if it is a larger body.
What is the noise level on this mount? does it compare well with other mounts? WarpAstron you mentioned is super quiet.
I now think I understand why the power and usb on the mount base are mounted to the top instead of the rear and this is because it is also able to be used in ALT/AZ mode. Other than the cables potentially getting in the way of a long losmandy bar, I would be concerned with moisture like dew building up in the exposed connectors. I also think that the bubble level is illuminated mainly for Alt/Az mode which is very important but less important for EQ mode. One thing that may annoy people is that mount does not come with a GPS function built in like the older mounts. Thanks for the review and clear skies!
Very good points Dave, thank you! Yeah the AltAz explains that decision - and for most scopes it won't be an issue! And I hadn't noticed about the GPS at all....! I don't think I've used mount's GPS in a long time, they can get the location so easily from a smartphone!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Skywatcher mounts have always been known to have GPS but then again, the GPS is actually in the hand controller. So no hand controller, no GPS :-) Makes sense now LOL
I see this mount uses a drive belt. Any discussion in the manual if the belt needs to be retensioned is it reasonably easy to get to and perform? Perhaps that is why they make that endcap easily screwed off?
Aha, good point! It will be interesting to see how it holds up with time! I'll also have to check how easy it is to get to the belt!
Thank you for this complet review Cuiv its confirms that I made the right investment with my Wave 150i. This rteview is much better then the AstroBackYard one. Appart from that I'm surprised you use 1s exposure time for guiding and Mn RA and DEC at 2500 level in PHD2. I thought it was not recommended to go over 950 if you have exposure time of 1s. Am I right ?
Good review. We’ll see if they can sell these over their EQ-6 and EQ-5 mounts. I assume they didn’t offer these mounts sooner because they’re going to cannibalize their traditional EQ mounts. I assume they waited for the right point in their EQ series lifetime and market, so lets hope they didn’t wait too long. Seems like a decent product, but not a mature one. Good for everyone is the strain wave mechanism part of the product is mature, so Skywatchers software so that just leaves minor mechanicals and electronics to make improvements to. Strain waves are the ultimate in portability today. Unless we’re going to star party for a week, I no longer lug an AP mount around which is a major job to pack/unpack and setup!
Strain Wave mounts are NOT the best choice for many applications.
My HEQ-5 can easily match 0.5" rms, and an EQ-6 can do even better.
GEM's can also track unguided if required, a SW mount absolutely requires guiding.
The ONLY case where a strain wave is "better" is for portability and even that is debatable when you consider the AM5 requires a bag full of rocks to stabilize the tripod.
@@poruatokin Agree on most of your points (having recently acquired an AP1100-AEx) - but i don't leave the AP1100 on my permanent pier for extended periods so that means setup/tear-down just like my process with my SW mounts. I got into the hobby only 2 yrs ago so i started with SW mounts...
The first thing i learned with my first traditional EQ mount was how much time it took to setup. With the iOptron HAE69C-EC or RST135, its easily < 15min, while the 1100 takes around an hr. Maybe i'll get faster as experience grows, but the whole process of attaching the mount to the pier (6 1/4"-20 screws for the RA base), threading the RA encoder cable thru the DEC and reciprocally threading down the wires in the DEC down the RA axis while holding the DEC axis in 1-hand, CW's precision balancing, etc is tiring.
Granted, AP mount's main advantage is vastly better guiding (0.2" easily). And i'm still learning how to use NINA and all the needed plugins, other PC software (APCC+APPM), separate planetarium and PHD2. Life was certainly easier when i started with ASIAir + SW mounts, so i can understand the appeal- and will probably continue to use both.
The counterweight weighs this mount with scope down which should keep it stable when there is some wind.
Good point on the wind!
Not sure if Sync Scan offers entire suite as ASI AIR (Autoruns (Lights and Cal Frames etc) on iPad/iPhone etc. If not, I'd still stick to AM5x series as iPad replacing the need to carry laptop in the field (No Backyard) for every imaging session. Correct me if my knowledge about SkyWatcher products and imaging is far off.
@@CosmicFireball The Sky Watcher wave mounts are, like other Sky Watcher mounts, ASIair compatible. The SynScan system is just for controlling the mount but it does have a rudimentary shutter control for certain DSLRs. I've used my wave 100i with an ASIair (mini and Plus), a Stellarmate Pro, PLL Eagle and a Laptop, it works fine with all of them. The only time I ever use the SynScan App is when I'm imagining the Sun or when I'm installing firmware upgrades, mostly I use the ASIair, it's just easier.
As Kevin mentions, it's just a mount, so it can be controlled via ASIAir with no issue
Thank you for clarifying.
Thanks :)
Excellent review... it helped me to no purchase at this time any of these types of mounts. they frankly are not ready for primetime use...
Interesting! What makes you think they aren't ready for primetime use? The SWG mounts have already seen a lot of primetime use!
Here’s a question my learned friend. Is the 25kg max payload with counterweight a figure for Astrophotography? Or is that capacity for visual use? I often hear people say for Astrophotography you should half the max payload. So does this mean the max Astrophotography payload for the 150i is 25kg, or is it 12.5kg?
Cuiv, for visual usage, what configuration (laptop free) would you suggest?. I'm waiting for a Esprit 120, and plan to use for visual during a while before full astrophotography.
The azimuth adjustment bolts has a very sticky grease, clean them and regrease them and they are much smoother?
Maybe that could help!
The mount has two USB inputs on the base. Which one passes thru to the dec outlet? I ask because one of those on the base is USB2 not USB3.
The one on the left, USB-A (USB 3)!
Will the ASIAir work well with this mount?
Yes
It looks like a nice mount. Boring and reliable should be a good thing.
If I remember correctly, such mounts aren't very suitable for long focal distance scopes like my Skymax 180, correct?
Well, it seems a lot of people are using SWG mounts with very long focal lengths, so I don't think that's the case!
Cuiv, I'm puzzled why you say it doesn't matter if the mount is level after you've polar aligned?
I have an older video on that and an upcoming video about that as well 😄
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Just looking at the old one now
Leveling the mount ensures that the latitude indicator is giving accurate information about the inclination of the mount. It's helpful but not required - you can still get the mount pointing in the right direction without it.
In the UK the 150i is over £250 cheaper than than AM5N
Yes, and for anyone who lives outside the UK if they order from a British vendor they will get a further 20% off as they don't have to pay our V.A.T.
That kind of makes it a no brainer in the UK...!
It'd be very interesting to see how this & the AM% do against the established strain wave manufacturers like Rainbow Astro. Are their premiums still worth paying? Possibly not.
Yeah, probably not tbh
I got the RST135 when it was the only SW mount for sale. The newer SW mounts are better value. The only advantages of the RST135 (wish i had the E version), are the 5-yr warranty and small size. To date, the RST135 is still the smallest & lightest SW mount that can carry 40-lbs with CW.
I heard from 1 vendor that RST135 sales have largely disappeared after the ZWO AM5 and competitors launched
You have a rig at SFRO now??
Kind of stealing one from Bray /😅
@@CuivTheLazyGeek So send a rig! A BIIIG one, a Planewave!!
So this or an eq6r pro. I know what I’m getting now 😊
This is Skye, Will the ASIAIR run this??
"... if you're upside down" :D
The prices for these assemblies of parts still blows my mind (not in a good way).
Honest question, does anyone still use the guide port ?
I’ve never have and I have never seen a video on YT where they have.
I maybe swayed ?? AM5n £2260 and Sywatcher £1999 in the UK ??
Oh wow! That makes it a no brainer there!
this mount requires right angle connections at the mount base, look how those wire curve.
Yep, as mentioned in the video! Even then some setups (SQA85 with an EAF for instance) can be too low to the ground and could interfere with the connectors, but there are easy workarounds!
In Europe the ZWO AM5N is 2700 euro's, the Sky-watcher 150i is 2400 euro's.
Makes it a no brainer...
Having both this and an @AM5 I can say the only real difference is the Sky watched has a higher payload.