Nah, the best solution is still bombing Washington and Ottawa, then placing Albanians there; then claim this island was always Albanian since ancient Illyrian Albanians have been the lords of this place even before European colonialism; and then make it an Albanian exclave.
Ya'll are some super dedicated U.S. and Canadian role-players - but guys, we got the video's message that the border dispute is arbitrary, petty, and unproductive. No need to hammer the point home by acting it out here
Sea of York - What sort of twisted attitude is that? It is our heritage to be arbitrary, petty and unproductive. The comments section of RUclips videos is exactly the place to do so. Why don't you just come down off your high horse, you and your high-faluting oxford comma.
Let Canada have the Island but make a treaty allowing Americans to use the surrounding waters just like Canadians under Canadian regulations. The US fishermen would ruin the lobster population if the US where to regulate it. So Win win.
@@allim.5941 when Norway had a dispute with Russia over the Svalbard. The Norwegian government made the agreement that Svalbard where to be Norwegian territories, without the presence of Norwegian troops and that they would create an economic zone most importantly in the waters around Svalbard. Others countries like especially Russia could use economic zone under Norwegian regulations without much problems. Aka Russian fishermen could continue fishing in the waters around Svalbard, for crabs if I'm not mistaken. This deal have worked out greatly because at the making of the deal there where no knowledge of any natural resources worth fighting over. And the Russian village where being abandoned. Doing this kind of approach would establish the status quo for Canada, eventually you could try to fight the US interests in the international Institutions responsible for recognizing border claims, but remember that the US is always capable of foul play.
well if you want to fight for it then go ahead, but it might not be as much to gain by fighting. I am no yank though i am from a country that always have to be clever when having international disputes because we have a weak military and a small economy heavily dependent on trade.
yeah and the svalbard treaty has been a complete disaster and signed under pressure by major international powers. the russians are funding an unprofitable mining town, has built a museum and even a lenin statue on the islands to justfiy the claims to them over norway. so when the artic melts and the UN discusses how to split the waters (as they contain large amounts of oil) the russians will only try to push harder with their claims. that it was signed at the time when there wasnt any awareness of natural resources present doesnt really matter as it is rather clear what they are pushing for today.
We (Canada) actually were awarded the Island and a bit of George's Bank at the International Court. The U S was awarded most of George's Bank. As in so many disputes between Canada and the U S, the U S never agrees with the decisions of the International Court, if the decision favours Canada.
5:13 she says that borders are imaginary and conflicts because of resources limited because of borders are indicative of our time... well yeah borders are just imaginary lines on paper but conflicts due to resource management or shortage of in the areas of borders is as old as civilization itself
I hope you do know that most of the US oil reserve comes domestically, from Canada, or from Mexico. the Middle East is the fourth place we get it from but that is a very small portion. Europe actually gets 80% of its oil from the Mid East and the US gets like 10% from there. so that whole thing about invading just for oil is false. I understand you are making a joke and feel like a dick for being serious and would have just laughed and moved on but i'm just bored lol
(Australian here) Sorry, but there is a Canadian living on the island and there is a Canadian facitility...thus Canadian. Territory is held by whomever occupies it and is willing to defend it. Unless the US openly invades and defeats Canadian defence then Canada owns it.
As top Canadian, I offer American government this island in exchange for Alaska. Act within the next 3 hours and I'll throw in some syrup for you. It's really good syrup too, trust me. Please let's all do our part to end border gore.
Kenny Lepage Why not a diplomatic talk, an agreement to administer it as a condominium between both countries, or an agreement to divide it down the middle?
Yup pretty much! The only thing I can imagine to clear this up is to split the area of waters down the middle, but with Canada keeping the island, given that we maintain it and such.
The United States started the War of 1812 with the goal of conquering British North America. It did not succeed. Britain was successful in preventing this. That means we won, and the United States lost. Returning to the topic, Canada has continuously occupied the island since 1830, possibly before that. The border treaty done in the 1840's does not mention the Machias Seal Island, so since we're there, and you're not it's ours. Reminder: the 1st one to hurl insults loses the argument. Personal observation: The only thing Americans hate worse than losing, is having it pointed out to them. Best not to go there in the first place.
US is richer but most US citizens never get any taste of that wealth. Canada have better welfare and a much stable a economy. A higher minimum wage and has a much more respected political system than the US. They also have a much better reputation currently. and unless you really want to travel to equatoriel guinea or the central african republic i dont see any real extra power in the US passport.
Ocean, Canada is not a monarchy. It is a parliamentary democracy, with the sovereign of Great Britain as its figurative head of state. Our view of the people who chose to remain loyal to England during and after the American Revolution is they were (and are) loyalists. In fact, they, and their descendants are known as United Empire Loyalists. I doubt any American who truly believes in freedom of choice would share you opinion that these people were traitors. Entering into a discussion of Canada/US relations is not the point, other than most people on both sides think things have been pretty good over the last century. What the govts. on both sides of the island have traditionally done is ignore it and let the fishermen sort it out on their own. This approach has worked in the past, and will likely continue to work. Your federal govt. doesn't see any sense in taking over the island, which would mean taking on the maintenance of a lighthouse that benefits the US fishery as much as, if not more than Canada's. Last, re. your 1st post, I prefer to remain Canadian, it has the big advantage that nobody hates us, except for possibly yourself and the mohammedans, but they hate everyone, including themselves.
My idea as an American: we give the island to Canada as an act of goodwill with the condition that we be allowed to continue fishing at a rate comparable to the Canadians.
Between 2 civilised countries - don't you think it is about time that we have the ability to have a "shared ownership". This would introduce a whole new concept in law. Whose laws would apply? How would one deal with legal disputes within the territory, etc. If any 2 civilised countries could pull this off, it would serve as an example in solving all other territorial disputes.
Wow that is so cool. Thanks for the link (I'd give you multiple thumbs up but RUclips only allows 1). Didn't know that the law of condominium existed. You can see that all the examples shown on wikipedia involve land or sea with no commercial value. This would be an extension of that law and offer way more complexity. But given that the law of condominium dates back to friggen 1659 (Treaty of the Pyrenees) we should be able to handle complexity in our current era. Thanks again for the link - nice lesson.
An interesting fact not mentioned in the piece is that Machias Seal Island is within the 12 mile territorial waters of the US and Canada. The almond shape of the grey zone is made from the overlapping 12 mile boundaries. Canada's done a great job claiming it and holding it. If the US wants to take it maybe they should offer up some lucre.
This video was just commentary and gave no facts, no maps and used selected old images and video. Could have been a good instrument for a further discussion but fell short.
That lighthouse-keeper is so jazzed to talk to the first people he's seen in years. After all that time in that lighthouse it's understandable that most of his conversation is dominated by a single theme (lighthouses).
I feel like the best solution would be either a sort of "joint-sovereignty" of the island, or for the US to retract the claim to the island, but maintain it to the waters surrounding it.
This reminds me of the "Pig War", an epic struggle between the U.S. and Canada which dragged on from 1859 until 1872. However, that particular dispute took place thousands of miles away in the Straits of Juan de Fuca, between what is now Washington State and British Columbia. Furthermore, the issue was not about lobsters, but merely over a single pig. It was eventually sorted out by, of all people, Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859)
Closer to USA by about 3 KM, administered by NB, in Gulf of Maine, Canadian Lighthouse, American Coast Guard protection. If I were to decide, it'd be Canadian because of the fact that it is administered by New Brunswick with a Canadian Coast Guard Lighthouse If I were to go geologically, it is american for it in in the Gulf of Maine and is closer to the USA
the obvious solution here is for the us military or navy or whoever to go capture a different Canadian island and declare it part of the usa and then trade that island for machias seal island
How would you resolve this dispute? Give it back to Mi'kma'ki based on Peace and Friendship Treaties and s.35 of the Canadian Constitution as well as UNDRIP. It is clearly a Mi'kmaq holding, why not accept that it is a part of Dawnland?
A similar situation existed on the Pacific coast in the 19th century. San Juan Island ( in what is now known as the Salish Sea), was disputed between Britain and the United States, even after the treaty setting the border elsewhere was ratified. In the 1870's, the dispute was referred the the German Kaiser of the time (the British territory was now part of Canada), who decided in favour of the United States. San Juan island is now part of Washington State.
Trump has strategically ended the lobster fight by ending lobster exports from America. I imagine the Canadian military will get involved in the depute for oil.
Dr Evil Is that why canada has an extensive and impressive military history and reputation. There is a reason the US and Canada SF work together in Jsoc and related operations. Canada is highly respected for well trained soldiers.
@Dr Evil Funny, but there is a reason canadian SF is known around the world for getting the job done. Go ahead and look into it. America's delta force chose jtf2 to work with over their own seals
I like the overall video, I just don't like the emphasis on "arbitrary boarders." Sure, there usually isn't much that distinguishes a boarder, but they are necessary for governing bodies. All human societies have boarders. Some are implied and others are codified into law. People have been fighting over territory since always. The video even mentions why, resources. With growing populations and higher demand on resources there is a growing need for authorities to keep the peace. I would like to hear the alternatives to established international boarders. If they are some trivial things that only cause problems, what is the solution? Is your solution a real solution? Human nature tends to get in the way of ideological pursuits.
On a map, it seems to be pretty solidly south of the border. It is also closer to the US than Canada, and there appears to be a ferry/boat line between Maine and the island, showing a stronger economic attachment. Also, Canada already has Grand Manan Island, so why do they need another one? It seems pretty securely on the US side..
There may be a "ferry/boat" line; there is no ferry that runs there - from either side. There are two birdwatching tour companies that have landing rights on the Island - one from Grand Manan and one from Maine. For some reason a lot of U S citizens choose to see the Island via Grand Manan (Canada) than from the Maine tour operator.
titus pullo actually to hold sovereign territory you need to have physical access to it, you need to have built structures of some kind and you need to have settlement - have people actually living there. Canada meets all three. It's also why the lighthouse keeper is there, for sovereignty.
solution: both nations adopt the same rules for the area with regards to fishing and petroleum resources. both nations patrol it and keep it safe. both nations' citizens can use the water land equally. maintain the island as a wildlife refuge or a historical monument.
The Solution is easy and there,s no need for dispute. Take turns: One season, one gets the Lobster, while the other Fishes something else. Next season they switch. Maine can also sell their catch in New Brunswick and New Brunswick can sell their catch in Maine. Both parts can work together for the greater benefit and interests of each. Everyone living in border towns/areas should be able to travel back an forth freely, no passports..just proof that they live in one of those border towns and to register their particulars and sign in at a local joint border station.
Take a leaf out of the German/Swiss/Austrian book over the status of Lake Constance. They seem to be able to get along just fine without having any agreement at all over where the border may or may not be.
Lets just make it the independent nation of puffin land where the poor puffins can govern themselves and then split the water 50\50 between the us and Canada
It's simply wrong to say that borders are imaginary. They are no less real when they are invisible... but often they are made visible precisely to make them more enforceable.
2:07 "it involves two countries that otherwise have the closest and best relationship of any two countries in the world." - Kelly with his ignorant American arrogance must have never heard of the BeNeLux!
I agree. Borders are stupid and if it were a perfect world, there wouldn't be any at all. But unfortunately, human beings are assholes and will attack each other over the smallest of things. History has shown that time and time again.
lol, I find it hard to believe the person feels the same way about borders not mattering if his neighbor annex his property with a fence despite a survey and deed showing the land he paid for is in fact his property. The dude at the end sounds like he's idealistic downplaying it as imaginary and unimportant. I think it's a phony front for the cameras.
I hate to say this, but the incompetence of Ottawa is getting a bit ridiculous to the point it's becoming a regional security problem. The United States is facing serious future global strategic issues. We simply cannot allow Russia or China to gain a strategic or economic foothold in the arctic. The United States will inevitably need to annex everything west of Ontario to the Northwest Passage. Our global strategic needs are far too great. The fact that Canada has been living under the United States defense umbrella for over 70 years with very little contribution needs to come to an end. Eastern Canada has been living under the US defense umbrella long enough, and they have been sucking off the teat of Alberta's oil revenue transfer payments to feed their aging socialist population. Frankly, everyone's getting a bit fed up with it. Canada has the worlds largest shoreline, and only 8,000 sailors to defend it. Canada also has the 2nd largest land mass with some of the most important natural resources in the world, yet only 75,000 soldiers to defend it. I'm sorry, but a nation that cannot defend itself is not sovereign. In reality, Canada really hasn't been truly sovereign for over 70 years. It only exists because of the United States as an over-seeing protector. You all may need to get used to the idea of statehood with more freedom and free travel across all of North America. Once Canada becomes part of the United States, we can finally build the multi-branched railway system all the way to the northern shore with no impeding regulations, build a US Naval base to finally control and patrol the Passage. This is the only way to ensure free commerce without harassment from Russia or China. We won't have nearly the problems from Russia and China making claims of ownership in the arctic, like they do now. If they do, they'll learn to shut their mouths the hard way, like they did by playing tag with our submarines during the cold war.
This issue is going to soon be resolved. Some aren't going to like it but regardless it is out of their jurisdiction. Not going to unleash the surprise just yet as I've still many discussions to make. If this patch of Earth is an interest to you, expect a solution that to my knowledge has certainly not been proposed yet.
Man, a growing lobster industry with a lot of (fairly) young people and old. Wish that was the case here in Sweden, we do have one of the most sustainable fleets but thanks to our government's shitty fishing politics the fleets of small commercial boats are declining and the young people are not joining the industry. We should learn something from the US when it comes to lobstering.
Geez..its a baby island. Be neighborly tell Canada its all theirs...let's have a BBQ and watch the puffin birds jump around. Silly stuff this is. The guy with the supposed family claim to it..just a nutcase...laugh at him wasting away his life as he fades away.
Oh and Canadians also want back the Alaskan pan handle. It belongs to B.C.. .. we just lent it to them in the gold rush for river boats. One day it will be ours again. 👌
@@grimmc5706 The US is oil independent now. And we could just walk on over and take the oil from you. Pretty sure the Albertans would be glad to join us. They hate Canada more than we do.
I'd propose a trade: Canada cedes the island to the US, in return for the US giving Canada the Northwest Angle in Minnesota, which juts randomly north of the rest of the border and is not land-connected to the rest of the US.
This is the problem with these smaller towns, they don’t diverse their economies enough and rely too heavily into one industry. It’s not the 1700’s anymore. Also why doesn’t Canada and the US just split the island if it’s that important.
it's not so much the island but the waters around it that's the problem. it holds many natural resources that these communities economies rely on (AKA, fishing) with talks of Oil potentially existing there. when it comes to so many natural resources (especially oil) you can't just split ownership without having resource conflicts happen
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
China should settle the problem by moving the island to the South China Sea.
"Why don't we take the island, and *_push it_* somewhere else!"
VideoGamePlayer Person it would be more of digging it up and then re dumping it into the SCS wich china has actually done before
Not if Putin decides to send his army to "defend" the Russian citizens living in the island XD
*claps*
Nah, the best solution is still bombing Washington and Ottawa, then placing Albanians there; then claim this island was always Albanian since ancient Illyrian Albanians have been the lords of this place even before European colonialism; and then make it an Albanian exclave.
Ya'll are some super dedicated U.S. and Canadian role-players - but guys, we got the video's message that the border dispute is arbitrary, petty, and unproductive. No need to hammer the point home by acting it out here
Sea of York - What sort of twisted attitude is that? It is our heritage to be arbitrary, petty and unproductive. The comments section of RUclips videos is exactly the place to do so. Why don't you just come down off your high horse, you and your high-faluting oxford comma.
By fair count the birds own it. Let’s ask them.
James Jacocks And then to whom would it belong on world maps? Or would it just be administered as a condominium between both countries?
Let's check their passports.
Yeah ! Let's ask them where they want to drop their shit on ... Good idea ! lol ;-)
Let Canada have the Island but make a treaty allowing Americans to use the surrounding waters just like Canadians under Canadian regulations. The US fishermen would ruin the lobster population if the US where to regulate it. So Win win.
Petter what do u mean met? They have the island which means waters, why would they split it with us?
@@allim.5941 when Norway had a dispute with Russia over the Svalbard. The Norwegian government made the agreement that Svalbard where to be Norwegian territories, without the presence of Norwegian troops and that they would create an economic zone most importantly in the waters around Svalbard. Others countries like especially Russia could use economic zone under Norwegian regulations without much problems. Aka Russian fishermen could continue fishing in the waters around Svalbard, for crabs if I'm not mistaken. This deal have worked out greatly because at the making of the deal there where no knowledge of any natural resources worth fighting over. And the Russian village where being abandoned. Doing this kind of approach would establish the status quo for Canada, eventually you could try to fight the US interests in the international Institutions responsible for recognizing border claims, but remember that the US is always capable of foul play.
well if you want to fight for it then go ahead, but it might not be as much to gain by fighting. I am no yank though i am from a country that always have to be clever when having international disputes because we have a weak military and a small economy heavily dependent on trade.
yeah and the svalbard treaty has been a complete disaster and signed under pressure by major international powers. the russians are funding an unprofitable mining town, has built a museum and even a lenin statue on the islands to justfiy the claims to them over norway. so when the artic melts and the UN discusses how to split the waters (as they contain large amounts of oil) the russians will only try to push harder with their claims. that it was signed at the time when there wasnt any awareness of natural resources present doesnt really matter as it is rather clear what they are pushing for today.
We (Canada) actually were awarded the Island and a bit of George's Bank at the International Court. The U S was awarded most of George's Bank. As in so many disputes between Canada and the U S, the U S never agrees with the decisions of the International Court, if the decision favours Canada.
That old man has the greatest sunburn hat head ever.
He looks like a boss for that tan
5:13 she says that borders are imaginary and conflicts because of resources limited because of borders are indicative of our time... well yeah borders are just imaginary lines on paper but conflicts due to resource management or shortage of in the areas of borders is as old as civilization itself
I don't see an American lighthouse on the island.
It only takes less than 5 minutes to make it an American lighthouse.
Anime watch that's how America acquires everything, with gunfire and violence.
leslie bowes America takes all and squanders it all too!
That is also Canada's history.
That's all the US wants, gunfire and violence
That island is clearly canadian, they've continuously held it for over 150 years.
Thats like The Kuril Islands just because Russia put a flag on it doesn't mean its theirs
Not putting a flag on it or making an official claim doesn't make it yours either.
Mega guy by that logic Hawaii isn't American just because you put your flag on it and took it over, why not give back Hawaii to the Hawaiians?
just over 150 years #canada150 #2017
@@GooglyEyedJoe Hawaii asked to be part of the us
Canada better hope we don’t find oil, we all know how the U.S. acts when we find oil lmao.
quoth cgp grey
where there's oil, America will have it be Open Season
I hope you do know that most of the US oil reserve comes domestically, from Canada, or from Mexico. the Middle East is the fourth place we get it from but that is a very small portion. Europe actually gets 80% of its oil from the Mid East and the US gets like 10% from there. so that whole thing about invading just for oil is false. I understand you are making a joke and feel like a dick for being serious and would have just laughed and moved on but i'm just bored lol
@@Ole4735 right... just one word: PETRODOLLAR
No interviews for the Canadian fishermen?
It's almost as if
*they HAVE to be right*
So... your claim is based on a lighthouse? Hmm, ok.
So... if that lighthouse were to mysteriously disappear in some sort of freak rail gun accident...
The first thing that come's to your mind when you hear lighthouse is "School Shooter"? Wow, go see a therapist little kid, you need meds.
Based on a lighthouse that’s been there for 150 years
(Australian here)
Sorry, but there is a Canadian living on the island and there is a Canadian facitility...thus Canadian.
Territory is held by whomever occupies it and is willing to defend it. Unless the US openly invades and defeats Canadian defence then Canada owns it.
Hey! Commonwealth brother!
It's not the island that matters it's the lobsters around it
Isn't it true that people born on that island have citizenships of both countries?
smoke hazard cry about it
keyword DISPUTE
As top Canadian, I offer American government this island in exchange for Alaska.
Act within the next 3 hours and I'll throw in some syrup for you.
It's really good syrup too, trust me.
Please let's all do our part to end border gore.
Sounds fair
I'd do it for the syrup lmao
Vermont has syrup
do not betray
#AllSyrupMatters lmao
I live in Alaska. Definitely don't want to be a part of Canada. Things are good here the way they are
Rock, paper, scissors. Best 2 out of 3 winner takes it.
Kenny Lepage Why not a diplomatic talk, an agreement to administer it as a condominium between both countries, or an agreement to divide it down the middle?
cyndie26 cause it’s more fun
And it only counts if I WIN
And if you are Canadian otherwise go eat some maple syrup from your toilet
The island is Canadian territory. We claimed it, we've maintained it, we live there.
Yup pretty much! The only thing I can imagine to clear this up is to split the area of waters down the middle, but with Canada keeping the island, given that we maintain it and such.
Ad/Am, You've forgotten you lost the war of 1812.
The United States started the War of 1812 with the goal of conquering British North America. It did not succeed. Britain was successful in preventing this. That means we won, and the United States lost.
Returning to the topic, Canada has continuously occupied the island since 1830, possibly before that. The border treaty done in the 1840's does not mention the Machias Seal Island, so since we're there, and you're not it's ours.
Reminder: the 1st one to hurl insults loses the argument.
Personal observation: The only thing Americans hate worse than losing, is having it pointed out to them. Best not to go there in the first place.
US is richer but most US citizens never get any taste of that wealth. Canada have better welfare and a much stable a economy. A higher minimum wage and has a much more respected political system than the US. They also have a much better reputation currently. and unless you really want to travel to equatoriel guinea or the central african republic i dont see any real extra power in the US passport.
Ocean, Canada is not a monarchy. It is a parliamentary democracy, with the sovereign of Great Britain as its figurative head of state. Our view of the people who chose to remain loyal to England during and after the American Revolution is they were (and are) loyalists. In fact, they, and their descendants are known as United Empire Loyalists. I doubt any American who truly believes in freedom of choice would share you opinion that these people were traitors.
Entering into a discussion of Canada/US relations is not the point, other than most people on both sides think things have been pretty good over the last century.
What the govts. on both sides of the island have traditionally done is ignore it and let the fishermen sort it out on their own. This approach has worked in the past, and will likely continue to work.
Your federal govt. doesn't see any sense in taking over the island, which would mean taking on the maintenance of a lighthouse that benefits the US fishery as much as, if not more than Canada's.
Last, re. your 1st post, I prefer to remain Canadian, it has the big advantage that nobody hates us, except for possibly yourself and the mohammedans, but they hate everyone, including themselves.
This island should belong to the U.S.A. ! And so should ALL of Canada ... 'MURiCA !!!
My idea as an American: we give the island to Canada as an act of goodwill with the condition that we be allowed to continue fishing at a rate comparable to the Canadians.
Devin Green its canadas island to begin with
OceanBlue now that's a trumpian' solution if there's one.
that's workable. it's a fair move. i agree.
I have a better idea, the US should just annex canada
We tried that twice, failed both times
Between 2 civilised countries - don't you think it is about time that we have the ability to have a "shared ownership". This would introduce a whole new concept in law. Whose laws would apply? How would one deal with legal disputes within the territory, etc. If any 2 civilised countries could pull this off, it would serve as an example in solving all other territorial disputes.
Mark Plain No. Its our island.
"this would introduce a whole new concept in law"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condominium_(international_law)
Wow that is so cool. Thanks for the link (I'd give you multiple thumbs up but RUclips only allows 1). Didn't know that the law of condominium existed. You can see that all the examples shown on wikipedia involve land or sea with no commercial value. This would be an extension of that law and offer way more complexity. But given that the law of condominium dates back to friggen 1659 (Treaty of the Pyrenees) we should be able to handle complexity in our current era. Thanks again for the link - nice lesson.
i agree, it's an interesting concept and countries should really start using it on bigger, more complex scales. could solve a lot of problems...
Canada really isn't into condominiums. They have such a dispute as well with Denmark regarding Hans Island.
damn americans think everything should belong to them...
the island has permanent canadian residence and commercial activity, it's canadian.
king james488 so your Canadian it’s like a kid saying he owns his xbox when it’s really the parents
it's really more like I went and build a lighthouse and started a settlement on an xbox and it's mine...
Same as British claims on the Falklands. They've been there hundreds of years. It's their island.
China owns that island, always has, always will.
Indeed a drunken Chinese sailor put it on a map 300 years ago using a 9 dash line.
Canada ought to count the Thousand Islands next to make sure the Americans haven't stolen any!
"had" the best relationship
Who else had to watch this for school bruh 🤷🏽
Disappointing how few Canadian voices were included in this "documentary".
The professor at the beginning was Canadian
"I don't know wehat the solution is" - How about, share the bloody waters?
An interesting fact not mentioned in the piece is that Machias Seal Island is within the 12 mile territorial waters of the US and Canada. The almond shape of the grey zone is made from the overlapping 12 mile boundaries. Canada's done a great job claiming it and holding it. If the US wants to take it maybe they should offer up some lucre.
Yeah the U.S should buy it.
Nah we’ll just annex Canada nowadays it’s pretty much simple done and done since you got that boy toy Trudeau
Nice " balanced" coverage of this dispute, and some people wonder why terms like fake news has gained popularity 💩
7:15 In 1832, Canada wasn't even a country.
This video was just commentary and gave no facts, no maps and used selected old images and video. Could have been a good instrument for a further discussion but fell short.
Concur .
Yeah and they only talked to Americans
That lighthouse-keeper is so jazzed to talk to the first people he's seen in years. After all that time in that lighthouse it's understandable that most of his conversation is dominated by a single theme (lighthouses).
I feel like the best solution would be either a sort of "joint-sovereignty" of the island, or for the US to retract the claim to the island, but maintain it to the waters surrounding it.
This reminds me of the "Pig War", an epic struggle between the U.S. and Canada which dragged on from 1859 until 1872. However, that particular dispute took place thousands of miles away in the Straits of Juan de Fuca, between what is now Washington State and British Columbia. Furthermore, the issue was not about lobsters, but merely over a single pig. It was eventually sorted out by, of all people, Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859)
Closer to USA by about 3 KM, administered by NB, in Gulf of Maine, Canadian Lighthouse, American Coast Guard protection.
If I were to decide, it'd be Canadian because of the fact that it is administered by New Brunswick with a Canadian Coast Guard Lighthouse
If I were to go geologically, it is american for it in in the Gulf of Maine and is closer to the USA
THAT'S RIGHT! YOU GET MAPLE SYRUP!
*AND IF OCEANBLUE THE EAGLE-AUTIST REARS HIS HEAD*
the obvious solution here is for the us military or navy or whoever to go capture a different Canadian island and declare it part of the usa and then trade that island for machias seal island
I think its pretty cool that we share it, lets just leave it as its both ours.
How would you resolve this dispute? Give it back to Mi'kma'ki based on Peace and Friendship Treaties and s.35 of the Canadian Constitution as well as UNDRIP. It is clearly a Mi'kmaq holding, why not accept that it is a part of Dawnland?
A similar situation existed on the Pacific coast in the 19th century. San Juan Island ( in what is now known as the Salish Sea), was disputed between Britain and the United States, even after the treaty setting the border elsewhere was ratified. In the 1870's, the dispute was referred the the German Kaiser of the time (the British territory was now part of Canada), who decided in favour of the United States. San Juan island is now part of Washington State.
@Tubmaster 5000 blah blah....this video has nothing to do with britain
Trump has strategically ended the lobster fight by ending lobster exports from America. I imagine the Canadian military will get involved in the depute for oil.
Ohmypulse
Dr Evil ...funny that's what the American military thought about Canada in 1812 - how did that work out for you guys?
Dr Evil Is that why canada has an extensive and impressive military history and reputation. There is a reason the US and Canada SF work together in Jsoc and related operations. Canada is highly respected for well trained soldiers.
@Dr Evil Funny, but there is a reason canadian SF is known around the world for getting the job done. Go ahead and look into it. America's delta force chose jtf2 to work with over their own seals
@Dr Evil Trust me, the walking vagina probably won't be around too much longer, elections are next year.
What's with the guy at 0:50 gradually acquiring face paint each time he lifts up his head? I don't understand what the video is trying to do there.
Imagine if Trump used this as a talking point in one of his rallies. Surprised he hasn’t placed a soldier on the island to provoke
I like the overall video, I just don't like the emphasis on "arbitrary boarders." Sure, there usually isn't much that distinguishes a boarder, but they are necessary for governing bodies. All human societies have boarders. Some are implied and others are codified into law. People have been fighting over territory since always. The video even mentions why, resources. With growing populations and higher demand on resources there is a growing need for authorities to keep the peace.
I would like to hear the alternatives to established international boarders. If they are some trivial things that only cause problems, what is the solution? Is your solution a real solution? Human nature tends to get in the way of ideological pursuits.
0:43 Neighbours by Scottish Canadian filmmaker Norman McLaren published by National Film Board of Canada
Obv it's Canadian because if it wasn't they'd say sorry and back off.
'zackly
@@xx_skullgamer_xx2754 mhm
Depending on the side you're coming from, the spelling of the zone is also disputed (grey/gray). 🤔
Græy
On a map, it seems to be pretty solidly south of the border. It is also closer to the US than Canada, and there appears to be a ferry/boat line between Maine and the island, showing a stronger economic attachment. Also, Canada already has Grand Manan Island, so why do they need another one? It seems pretty securely on the US side..
There may be a "ferry/boat" line; there is no ferry that runs there - from either side. There are two birdwatching tour companies that have landing rights on the Island - one from Grand Manan and one from Maine. For some reason a lot of U S citizens choose to see the Island via Grand Manan (Canada) than from the Maine tour operator.
ITS CANADIAN FAIR AND SQUARE , CANADIAN FLAGS AND CANADIAN LIGHTHOUSE
Linamar that means nothing
titus pullo actually to hold sovereign territory you need to have physical access to it, you need to have built structures of some kind and you need to have settlement - have people actually living there. Canada meets all three. It's also why the lighthouse keeper is there, for sovereignty.
Machias Seal Island, New Brunswick, Canada🇨🇦
By that logic, America owns the moon because it planted a flag there.
Yu O'Rlly we got a good deal
solution: both nations adopt the same rules for the area with regards to fishing and petroleum resources. both nations patrol it and keep it safe. both nations' citizens can use the water land equally. maintain the island as a wildlife refuge or a historical monument.
Those Maine accents are insane
Great documentary
9:01 Same...I feel ya
I would like to know the decision of the Duke U students; what research they conducted, what facts they chose to support their decision.
The island doesn’t really matter, it’s the water. And US fishermen occupy the waters as well
The Solution is easy and there,s no need for dispute. Take turns: One season, one gets the Lobster, while the other Fishes something else. Next season they switch. Maine can also sell their catch in New Brunswick and New Brunswick can sell their catch in Maine. Both parts can work together for the greater benefit and interests of each.
Everyone living in border towns/areas should be able to travel back an forth freely, no passports..just proof that they live in one of those border towns and to register their particulars and sign in at a local joint border station.
The birds shit all over it, looks like they seem to think they own it.
I used to lobster fish out there all the time with my grandfather when I was a kid. I never even knew about this til now.
Take a leaf out of the German/Swiss/Austrian book over the status of Lake Constance. They seem to be able to get along just fine without having any agreement at all over where the border may or may not be.
Lets just make it the independent nation of puffin land where the poor puffins can govern themselves and then split the water 50\50 between the us and Canada
Why can't we split the claim in half
There is a very easy compromise - govern the grey area as a condominium.
can they just issue passport for both and let people choose which country they want to belong like a good neighbours that we are.
It's simply wrong to say that borders are imaginary. They are no less real when they are invisible... but often they are made visible precisely to make them more enforceable.
I live in Maine and can only say: Of course this dispute is taking place in Maine over lobster. Of course...
The guy at 2:51 has a rare tan line. In that it’s a hat that gives a tan line
2:07 "it involves two countries that otherwise have the closest and best relationship of any two countries in the world." - Kelly with his ignorant American arrogance must have never heard of the BeNeLux!
Ww3 is near. They are taking our water.
I have no opinion here, I think borders are ridiculous, but I hope this gets sorted before it gets crazy.
if you're a homeowner, you'll understand the value of borders.
I agree. Borders are stupid and if it were a perfect world, there wouldn't be any at all. But unfortunately, human beings are assholes and will attack each other over the smallest of things. History has shown that time and time again.
The Mad Lolita Stop wearing underwear! That's a crazy artificial border as well!
lol, I find it hard to believe the person feels the same way about borders not mattering if his neighbor annex his property with a fence despite a survey and deed showing the land he paid for is in fact his property. The dude at the end sounds like he's idealistic downplaying it as imaginary and unimportant. I think it's a phony front for the cameras.
7:16 Jazz version of an Aphex Twin song. Nice!
The Island clearly belongs to us Brits.
Maybe if Canada puts a naval jack instead of a coast guard jack some of the Americans would be a little less ballsy
I’ve been to that island! I never knew the history of it though.
I hate to say this, but the incompetence of Ottawa is getting a bit ridiculous to the point it's becoming a regional security problem. The United States is facing serious future global strategic issues. We simply cannot allow Russia or China to gain a strategic or economic foothold in the arctic. The United States will inevitably need to annex everything west of Ontario to the Northwest Passage. Our global strategic needs are far too great. The fact that Canada has been living under the United States defense umbrella for over 70 years with very little contribution needs to come to an end. Eastern Canada has been living under the US defense umbrella long enough, and they have been sucking off the teat of Alberta's oil revenue transfer payments to feed their aging socialist population. Frankly, everyone's getting a bit fed up with it. Canada has the worlds largest shoreline, and only 8,000 sailors to defend it. Canada also has the 2nd largest land mass with some of the most important natural resources in the world, yet only 75,000 soldiers to defend it. I'm sorry, but a nation that cannot defend itself is not sovereign. In reality, Canada really hasn't been truly sovereign for over 70 years. It only exists because of the United States as an over-seeing protector. You all may need to get used to the idea of statehood with more freedom and free travel across all of North America.
Once Canada becomes part of the United States, we can finally build the multi-branched railway system all the way to the northern shore with no impeding regulations, build a US Naval base to finally control and patrol the Passage. This is the only way to ensure free commerce without harassment from Russia or China. We won't have nearly the problems from Russia and China making claims of ownership in the arctic, like they do now. If they do, they'll learn to shut their mouths the hard way, like they did by playing tag with our submarines during the cold war.
We should do a land swap let Canada have the island and in exchange we get a connecting strip of land to Alaska
Where is the dispute? It is clearly Canadian.
If Mr. Trump see's this piece he will want to send in the army and build a wall!
This issue is going to soon be resolved. Some aren't going to like it but regardless it is out of their jurisdiction.
Not going to unleash the surprise just yet as I've still many discussions to make. If this patch of Earth is an interest to you, expect a solution that to my knowledge has certainly not been proposed yet.
Man, a growing lobster industry with a lot of (fairly) young people and old. Wish that was the case here in Sweden, we do have one of the most sustainable fleets but thanks to our government's shitty fishing politics the fleets of small commercial boats are declining and the young people are not joining the industry. We should learn something from the US when it comes to lobstering.
Watch as Trump uses it like Thatcher used Argentina...
The irony is that the US fishermen are fucked, if the US drills
do all people in Maine sound like Quint from jaws?
Geez..its a baby island. Be neighborly tell Canada its all theirs...let's have a BBQ and watch the puffin birds jump around. Silly stuff this is. The guy with the supposed family claim to it..just a nutcase...laugh at him wasting away his life as he fades away.
mxferro Canadians don’t know what a good bbq is
America. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
If not more Maine fisherman this could be settled with a coin toss
report seems quite biased.
Oh and Canadians also want back the Alaskan pan handle. It belongs to B.C.. .. we just lent it to them in the gold rush for river boats. One day it will be ours again. 👌
We should just take it. We already provide them with defense for free...
You try and you will start a diplomatic crisis won’t look good when we cut off oil supply
@@grimmc5706 The US is oil independent now. And we could just walk on over and take the oil from you. Pretty sure the Albertans would be glad to join us. They hate Canada more than we do.
@@grimmc5706 you cut off oil supply then that means you don't get paid. lmao.
@@lincolnlog5977 no Alberta are patriots they will fight to the last man
@@deprogramm worse for you we will sell to China
We Should Close Our Borders including TownShip and Friendship Bridge eh!
just make it a nature reserve
Just fuckin draw a line down the middle we can share it
Each side gets half the waters
The border wasn't handed by God but won through war guy
The U.S. got Alaska, let Canada have a few little tiny rocky islands.
Or give us Alaska, we would gladly get rid of that border gore
You bought it for about $70 a mile accounting for inflation which means you could buy it for well under nasa’s budget, it isn’t exactly a ton of money
I'd propose a trade: Canada cedes the island to the US, in return for the US giving Canada the Northwest Angle in Minnesota, which juts randomly north of the rest of the border and is not land-connected to the rest of the US.
Nobody wants Minnesota.
and/or point roberts, washington, which if you want to drive there from anywhere else in the u.s., you have to go through canada
You'd have to relocate all the Americans. We don't want them.
You might not want them but we need them because we need more people
@@novaexplorer2397 why do we need more people??
Looks like a canuk island surrounded by American water
Rising sea levels will resolve this dispute.
2:50 this guy sounds like JFK
6:25 "sea enlargement"
Dont mess with the Grand Manan fishermen. Sharks flee when tbey see their boats coming.
This is the problem with these smaller towns, they don’t diverse their economies enough and rely too heavily into one industry. It’s not the 1700’s anymore. Also why doesn’t Canada and the US just split the island if it’s that important.
it's not so much the island but the waters around it that's the problem. it holds many natural resources that these communities economies rely on (AKA, fishing) with talks of Oil potentially existing there. when it comes to so many natural resources (especially oil) you can't just split ownership without having resource conflicts happen
Waste of time
You say Maine, I think Stephen King...