The Lobster Industry is PISSED about this Border Conflict
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- A mapping error has left AMERICA and CANADA fighting over this territory for decades. This “Gray Zone” produces billions of dollars each year, but who really owns it? For the past 20 years it has operated under dual ownership… which has led to some questionable activity on both sides. Most notably, lobster fishers from America and Canada are up in arms. Will there ever be a resolve to this obscure border battle?
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What do YOU think should happen to the Gray Zone? 😳
You got me at Trump building a wall in the ocean.
The Gray Zone should be it's own country called "Canmerica"
As a Canadian, I would find it cool to make this a shared zone where both nations' fishermen have the same rights.
International Park, for the conservation of the Lobster.
I feel it is only fair that Canada and the United States have the same regulations for lobstermen
You might talk to salmon fishers on the West Coast. Lots of USA fishers taking salmon ( while Canadian fishers aren’t allowed to fish, in efforts to conserve the species) that would be spawning in Canadian rivers, if they hadn’t been caught in USA. This threatens the survival of wild salmon on the West Coast.
MORE LIKE ASIAN FISHERMAN CONSTANTLY POACHING.
The Canadians have a legitimate complaint there. Alaska agrees with the Canadians on that one, I understand! (I think I have that the right way around.)
they used to net them in the rivers, the Canadian government had to over step to stop it basically arriving there in bus loads and beating people up, maybe it was justified, idk I was not there lol, a lot of the salmon are caught by natives then they go sell it for profit when it is supposed to be for personal consumption.
Kinda like how Canadians fish walleye out of the lakes
@@Youralwayswhining4367 ???
i love how canada is so trusting that the janitor just allows two random guys to come in and look at their maps.
excellent.
Yeah, not happening here in NY
Canadian niceness shown by that janitor. Legally closed due to the place being a holiday but sure come in.
Amazing how you took note of the janitor and not every other asshole Canadian in the video
Maine can't keep every lobster they catch because Maine lobster season is 365 days a year ...Nova Scotia has a lobster season ..
Except for the grey zone where Canadians fish 365 and don’t have an upper limit…..
@@jamesvanderbeak3487 ( 1 ) Only fishermen from Grand Manan are permitted to fish those waters (38b) .. ( 2 ) USA fishermen will fish 15000-25000 traps year around in the grey zone (38b) while Grand Manan fishermen must apply for a license to fish the grey zone (15-20 licenses) about 1500 traps .. and you wonder why the USA has to throw some back ..LOL .. If permitted the USA would fish EVERY lobster out of the Gulf of Maine and the Bay of Fundy ..
I live in a small fishing village in Nova Scotia our season is last week of November to last week of May .. Must be nice to fish YEAR ROUND ...
@@littleredridinghood5622 Sorry for having the most sustainable fishery in the world maybe if your ancestors cared more
Im a Mainer i just learned a lot of new stuff about our state. You dove real deep on this, very nice.
Glad you were able to learn something new :)
I am fully invested in your guys channel. Never thought I'd ever want to know so much about Canada US disputes, but I do. And you guys deliver some quality work. So, thanks
Peter, so glad you are into our channel! Is there anything specific you'd hope to see in the future?
Great journalism work. I live in nova scotia and I’ve always wanted to do some kind of documentary work about local fishing business and I had never heard about this before.
The answer seems "simple". there are two choices 1, Co-Management with the same rules for both countries. Including size limits. Or (my choice) 2, Split the grey zone 50/50 north to south and assign the east and west parcels in a rotation every year/season. So no one can complain the other side got the better ground. I think this second option can be sold as a stop gap till a "permanent" solution is found. Although we all know this will be the permanent solution.
Canada had the same problem with Denmark on "their" shared island. Look it up. They eventually split the island into two, 60/40.
The Whiskey War, eh? This is the one that supposedly ended recently yeah?
@@OfftheCuff_Series That's it. Not probably going to happen in this case since "real money" is involved.
@@OfftheCuff_Series We would take the Danish flag down, respectfully, grab the bottle of Schnapps left by the Danes and lift our flag up and leave a bottle of Rye. They'd return the favour in a month or two. Pretty decent way to fight a war really.
That's what I was thinking too. Why couldn't they just split the difference between the territorial waters and split the island in half?
I wouldn’t call it a problem,sharing whiskey and swiping flags for fun
WOOOAH Black Betty, Grand Manan.
As a Canadian and a conservationist, I beleive that the USA gov't and Canadian Gov't should be consulting to have some agreement on the fishing policies.
Wouldn't it be nice!
Lobsterman said it Canadians what the big boys and the Maine lobsterman don’t want a season restrictions and either want to kick out of the area. Was there any evidence of more southern lobstermen coming south of cutler Or that just speculation? Plus the Canadian regulations on the gear are loser and less whale safe then USA are. Another big issue for the passed 30 years.
you guys are such good film makers! I always love when I get to watch a new video
Another interesting vid. I’m getting closer to subscribing! Watching from Ontario Canada 🇨🇦
Thanks for the sub, Sean :)
Excellent content!!!
do Americans maintain the island or Canadians that answers your question Just like Canadians backup every American Conflict But as soon as there's money American people go Hey that's ours
Thanks for another interesting video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
🇨🇦 🇺🇸... Great Video.
Really Enjoyed Yhis -'' Eh""
From Saskatchewan 🇨🇦
Glad you enjoyed it! What do you think should happen to the Gray Zone?
@@OfftheCuff_Series I Was Thinking About That And It's Hard To Say.
Yet The Whole who's Water Is it -
Is Kinda Heads Or Tails..
Nobody's Waters..
If One Goes Deep Enough With Out The Lobster Business in The way.. Then No-one Would Give A Shit.
So Really Goes Back To This Land is Your Land This Land is Our Land.. 🎶
Crazy Cause in The End It Doesn't Really Matter.
@@OfftheCuff_Series canada should conquer united states
the whole continent belongs to the good old great britain GIVE IT BACK
The allude to the fact that Canadians " can just move north as the lobsters migrate" but this is not true. In Canada you are assigned to you Fishery area. So it will eventually hurt the Canadian Fisheries in the bay of Fundy as well.
hell yeah... your in the film industry
Living in Downeast Maine as I do, we all kinda know the story, but that was as much complete information as I've ever seen. I am not a fisherman/lobster-man nor do I have a complete opinion. Trying to put my bias to one side I'd say that this should be diplomatically addressed and solved but when it's people's livelihoods like this, I see the very human nature of conflict. I doubt that either side will ever be content with any agreement.
They already Manifest Destinied Point Roberts, let us have the rocks. Our turn to say, "OOPS" and get first dibs.
They Manifest Destined the three Island in the Haro’s strait, parts of the Yukon, and Angle inlet as well.
USA sucks
So do you really expect us to stop then
Should've manifest destiny the entirety of BC before it became CCP
Point Roberts was settling the borderon the 49th. Works great, except where a peninsula hangs down like a uvula... no other place where land south of the line can't continue to go south by land.
Canada will always fish less while American will always fish more. Why? There are more people in America so more people will eat it. When you look at fishy dispute issues, you always find that it's the American site the destroys the life stock of it's fishes. So as you have learned.. Canada always placed conditions of Law on time and size and weight. The reason for this is to always allow the fish to recover where, once again, American will take, take and take until nothing exist. Just like that guy wants to take the larger one, the Canadian side can only take the one up and until a certain time of the year.
There is another smaller boarder dispute including Canada that also just got resolved recently.
Which one are you referring to?
@@OfftheCuff_Series If you would be interested in having a curious Canadian joining you on your eventual adventure to the island let me throw my hat in the ring. Cheers to Tomorrow!
"border"
It's just Maine that limits the size.
Wow, you guys did a "boatload" of research on this video. KUDOS! Thanks for the info. I'm suddenly hungry for seafood....
Glad you enjoyed it! We hope you get to eat on a nice lobster soon :)
We are the best of friends ... let's split the grey zone so there isn't a grey zone !!!
It wasn't the only disputed land dispute in North America when you put this on youtube. It is now. The dispute between Canada and Denmark, Hans Island was just resolved. Border straight down the middle
Looks like Canadian water
10:42 huh could you not see all the red letters in front of u?
He can't read french.
Whoa, Black Betty Grand Manan.
Betty had a child, Grand Manan.
The lobsterrr gone wild, Grand Manan.
Too funny, my Ukrainian family that I am hosting on Grand Manan just made that same comment a couple of weeks ago
I've fished out of blacks Harbour New Brunswick, Canada with captain Dave McDougall also he's the captain of the older grand manan ferry always heard stories of the Grey zone great content 👍I just noticed another boat I was on the maliseet 3 is owned by Saint marys first nation you could've got way more answers by talking to some natives that fish out of blacks Harbour or my buddy Justin Dave's son
The fact that the janitor just let them in to see those maps is actually pretty concerning
A bit, but it's not like it's Fort Knox, are they afraid of map theft?
nah its a tiny fishing island off the coast of NB you ever been to rural canada?
It's a bit concerning, but to be fair those maps are publically available. I have that same map hanging in my garage.
😮 9:34 It’s probably still inhabited to keep vandals away. 😮
Both countries should make the whole area of the Grey zone a nature preserve
Shooting at each-other is a time-honored tradition among lobstermen. Here in New Jersey, a couple of lobstermen started with shotguns, and finished by burning each-other's boats. I'm not making this up. Fuggedaboudit !!!
Big Barna doesn’t want to serve his duty in war so he runs away and tries to steal an island from another country…sounds like a stand up guy 🤔
Ok 😂😂. Good. 6:47
If you want to see nre border disputes you need to visit Grand Island NY. Half of it should be Canada. Or All of it Native Indian, maybe Finnian's, its complicated.
Interesting! We'll take a look
Knew it was going to have some BS to do with oil...
The fishermen guy on the usa side looks too much like that five team that looks for lost loved ones thing adventures with purpose I think 😂
Americans deal with this in commercial fishing especially walleye in the great lakes.
Is not about the grey zone, but why is the US limiting the size and season for lobster fishing? Crazy!
Lobsterman said why, the big lobsters are the breeding populations that keep the fisheries full of lobsters. Maine scientists also cured red tail disease in the population decades ago which increased the populations. Maines regulations were passed to protect the population and let it grow. Saw a Maine lobsterman , state that more southern New England states don’t have as strict of limits, and their lobsters populations are suffering.
South Park got it right BLAME CANADA
I've never been lobster fishing before. But living just outside of Detroit & reaping of the benefits of Canada being so close back when I turned 19. I can say I've met more than my fair share of Canadians. Never had an issue with them because they always seem to be polite, curios & respectful of others.
With all that said, I couldn't imagine something like this happening between the two countries. Hopefully something can be worked out between the two before it escalates.
opposite for me, most stuck their noses up and were just plain rude.
Interesting. When I was a student in law school I had a summer job where international boundaries were an issue. I don't pretend to know all the nuances but the consensus was that the USA claim was very strong in this area but, and it is a big but, that using the same principals at play here the USA would lose the Dixon Passage dispute between Alaska and British Columbia and the Yukon and Alaska boundary to the North Pole. So the USA and Canada have sort of put this dispute on the back burner and let things roll along. There is no incentive to solve this dispute.
had the islands been unmanned, I would have sided on the side of the US given it is within the 20miles that the treaty says. however, canada has manned the island for quite a while and...well....squatting rights im afraid.
The US position is to thank Canada for manning a light house on their island for free.
@@joedellinger9437 yea but I dont think thats how it works lol. generally if you claim it and occupy it, its yours.
@@HavokR505 If the other country agrees or has no military, sure, yes.
@@joedellinger9437 however it is not a USA island. A big USA citizen came over to the island found Canadians living on the island and threw them off the island physically. He did not buy the island he used physical force. In other words the Canadians never gave up claim to the island instead USA Citizens became squatters.
@@nightbest2308 I did not say that Canada ever gave up claiming it. I’m just saying these things are ultimately settled by negotiations or conflict. As private citizens we can have all the opinions we like, but ultimately it is governments that decide. International courts, arbiters, etc, can rule too - but unless the governments involved agree to honor their decisions, or the courts acquire a military or powerful government to back them up, their rulings count for little as well.
Canada has not been arresting US fishermen. The US has not been arresting Canadian fishermen. Obviously for right now there is a de facto compromise. There is a similar one over on the Southern sea border of Alaska, where the sea border is in dispute but neither country is aggressively enforcing their claim.
The obvious solution is to formalize some sort of compromise. US recognizes Canadian sovereignty but Canada gives grandfathered Maine fishermen and US puffin watchers some special rights, for example. The current fudge avoids politicians having to make decisions, but at some point they may have to. Canada is trying to up the ante by giving their fishermen in the grey zone more fishing rights than they would normally have. Sounds like the US held back from escalating.
I know.. let’s have an arbitration panel where the deciding vote is held by a British person. They will surely rule in Canada’s favor, right? Oh… no… the Canadians won’t fall for that one a second time. :-)
I just found this channel, but it has been inactive for a year. Where did you go??
Whoa, Black Betty
10:24
I don't get the pictures of maps of the "oil" where it shows Cape Cod and the oil south and east of the cape. That's hundreds of miles south of Manan which lies at the northern most coast of Maine. There's no Canada anything east of Massachusetts.
new Brunswicker here. your pronunciation of grand manan made me facerole harder than when john Townsend said pronounced metis (May-tee) as (Meh-tiss)
this is not the only border dispute
Why don't they just find a workaround to fish simultaneously? Canadian and American fisherman could fish in the same boats, divide the catch based on the regulations and poundage, and flip off the law as they boat passed them with impunity.
What ? You mean half the crew of one boat would have the right to bear arms !
ill tell u exactly why, beacuse in maine u can fish for lobsters 365 days a year while in canada its a season so only a small window of time each year.
4:05 didn’t you mean for the graphic effect to say Fast Forward instead of Rewind? Like wouldn’t we be going Forward in the timeline?
Greed is greed on either side of the border. Shut ALL fishing down on both coasts and subsidize the industry so folks can survive for those 2 years, y'know? Feed their kids - pay their bills, Keep their boats etc. As it happens Canada AND the U.S.A. are suffering at least a decade of the dumbest most corrupt political leaders in history (in my opinion). Humans are doomed to extinction until we learn to co operate.
Rusty
Former salmon, shrimp and crab fisherman from British Columbia Canada
I mean... is there really any question that those islands are Canadian? Sure, they could come to an agreement to split the EEC zone, but it's pretty obvious...
It’s pretty obvious that canada needs to keep their dirty paws off our resources/waters. Y’all need to be taught a lesson.
@@nitrosnw lol, a true imperialist American.
@@frostman9661 and what’s wrong with that?
@Cab well, when you're an unevolved Neanderthal and don't give a shit about human suffering, like your self, there's no suprise you don't see anything wrong with it.
Why so angry?
8:43 😂maybe not play that song…!😂😂😂😂😮 8:52
You left put the part where Canadians burned down the White House for England.
I wonder if it would be possible for the fishermen to trade lobsters at the end of the day. Instead of tossing the lobster back because it's too large, maybe the American could trade it to their Canadian counterpart for an equal weight in lobster at the end of the day so everyone walks away with what they caught? The American gets to essentially keep the profits they caught that day, and the Canadian gets more big ass "premium" lobsters than they would otherwise.
Could be a number of factors preventing this. Just interesting to me, is all.
Make it a conservation area
Easy peasy......"0" fishing zone!! The lobsters won't mind...lol
I got an idea, call it international water.
The main point that I learned here is that the lobster habitat is moving north. Except, there is lobster far north and south, so what is he talking about?
That American captain should swap big lobsters for medium with the Canadians.
They both should stay out of the grey zone. Maybe the whales would have a little sanctuary too
ironic thing though, most of the residents in maine dont even like lobster. okay maybe not most but really only people you see having a lobster roll are vacationers in the summer
25 dollar lobster rolls lmao
Oh yeah one last comment it's colder here in Canada lobsters like cold weather So don't cry because lobsters choose to be Canadian instead of American It's better here
The property ( Machias Seal Island) was given the tall barney beal from jonesport maine by president george washington.
Just one thing junior. It’s called. A CHART not a map.
I hope we treated you nicely!
It's Canadian Territory but like everything else the United States wants it because there's money involved. It seems the real problem is the fact that the US has their own regulations and Canada has a different set of regulations. Maybe the US should change their rules and make it an even playing field. Or mutually shut down the Lobster Fishery based on the Canadian area closure schedule.
What an ignorant snarky take on a dispute that effects the livelihood and culture of a region.
@@j0hndabomb210 Exploiting lobster is not culture. In Canada we have actual regulations because conserving species is more important than short term financial gains, the US has different ideas
@@j0hndabomb210 Ignorant and Snarky ? That from a country that refuses to abide with the finding of the International Trade Commission unless it finds in their favour. Just as with repeating softwood tariffs where the US has lost everytime but just re-instates the tariffs every few years and refuses to rebate the money collected even when they lose. The American government and system are parasites and the best thing that could happen would be if Canada dug a mote top separate the two nations. In the long run Canada would be better off trading with Europe and Asia and relegating US trade to a much lesser level. Living next to the US is like living with a narcistic, spoiled sibling. You have to love them because they are family but you'd never lend them the car.
@@j0hndabomb210 hose regulations are their to help maintain those livelihoods. Canadian’s fishing industry learned a valuable lesson from the Cod crisis. Where the Cod in the Gulf of Lawerence were overfished and basically disappeared, killing many towns along the coast.
Hope they do move up into Canada because of warming waters and get protection from more logical thinking people then what we have in the US. I love my country but it hurts on how we treat our land by reaping and destroying. The big corporations don’t care about the repercussion of having their dollar as the bottom line. Pure greed all suffers
Split the gray zone 50/50 east and west sides and call it the agreed on border. Have a dual citizen sign the agreement on behalf of both nations.
0:11 Is it just me, or are the flags backwards in the water here?
The Canadian and American claims overlap, so the flags are not backwards!
there are no flags at 0:11
I'd say the guy living on the island almost inhabitable well there went the lobster supply
Maybe Canada should put an upper limit rather than the US removing the limit and the US should ban over limit lobster sales
or maine to go to a short season like nb has
Why cant they divide the line in-between what both sides say are theirs. Second option would be to create an organizatio between both fishing sides with mutual regulations in the grey zone. I am Canadian but i agree there should be a size limit on larger lobster to protect the future if the industry. For the grey zone they coukd increase the size to Six inches and set limites on the Canadians for the same.
Fabulous video!
Lol this island isn’t the US richest fishing grounds. That’s snow crab in Alaska.
Have a lottery in both countries and restrict how many lobstermen may fish in this area. Regulations would be mandatory to both countries. Violations of the regs would be mandatory to each country. The environment and sustainability should be the focus.
Look at the USA lobster fisheries now it’s almost gone
It's none of Canada's concern if US regulations screw over their own industry with max limits. I do agree a co-management would be ideal, no one should get hurt over lobster. However, it's quintessentially ignorant to think Canadian lobstermen should have to use a 5-inch measure because someone else is making your livelihood difficult.
That 5 inch limit is to conserve the species and resource so the industry can persist.
@@mikeknape7064 Canada has made plenty of succesful conservation efforts as well. Canadian laws require lobster to be a minimum 3 inches long before they can be harvested. I'm not an expert on lobster fishing, but I don't see why putting a ceiling of 5 inches on a mature lobster ready to be harvested makes sense or how that is a Canadian lobsterman concern. Furthermore, the video (and other sources) say that lobster habitat is being threatened more by climate change than overfishing as waters get warmer. The US needs to petition and lobby to change their laws if they are upset with current conservation requirements that affect their living. (Which I think they should do, in my own opinion.)
@elliephil it is common practice, for many species, to release large specimens. They are often the primary breeders/spawners. This is often employed via slot limits. Also, both climate change and over fishing effect things. Humans pillage the ocean and climate change is exacerbating it.
It is a Canadian fisherman's concern when they are harvesting literally the same lobster. It is ignorant to not consider the conservation of the resource. Shortsightedness isn't going to help anyone, regardless of what flag you fly.
@@mikeknape7064 Yes I agree being shortsighted is not a good thing. However, the size of a lobster being caught is not as much a matter of concern for conservation as it comes down to $$$ for Lobstermen. If conservation was the true intention of US laws, there needs to be a floor rather than a ceiling since it protects the vulnerable population of lobster. Lobster stocks are not endangered currently and to speculate "well it might happen, so you need to follow my rules" does not make sense since the main issue that Lobstermen are facing is climate change. There is far more evidence to support lobsters are moving to colder waters than being overfished or taken in too early for market.
@elliephil that is incorrect. A floor and ceiling is valuable. The same logic is often employed with fish.
The reason for the 5 inch ceiling is not to limit money on lobsterman. Not sure where you got that idea. Science doesn't care.
It is poor management to wait until a resource is endangered. And it is a poor logic to use to make your argument. Conservation is wise use. Let's be wise. Afterall the demand isn't decreasing. Populations continue to rise.
Legally, you are allowed anywhere on the water. You just can't touch canadian land without calling it in. Vis versa for the US.
Seeing as Americans stole most of Northern Maine territory from Canada, with unscrupulous surveyors back in the day, You keep the Maine North Woods, & we will keep our fishing grounds 🤔FYI, the lobsters up north of there is crawling with record lobsters & some of the very tastiest are off Cape Breton & NewFoundland.
Go fight it and if you won you gotta keep all of New England, but if we won we are taking Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island
Ironically, taste tests confirm the left claws of American lobsters taste much better than the right claws of Canadian lobsters. Go figure . . .
The Island was Canada's first and is occupied by Canadians, should be no grey zone, Americans should just stop fishing in Canadian water.
Ez lobsters Ez money 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Kinda depressing how in North America there’s a culture of never compromising, in contrast to how a lot of the small disputes in Europe have been resolved
Or how many of those small disputes turned into bloodshed. Go read some history.
and what the maine lobster fishermen do not say it, that main lobster fishermen can fish year round, while nb lobster
season is 4 months long..
tough sh**t
you americans have been getting free goodies for too long it's TIME TO PAY BACK
No. Y’all deserved to be annexed.
Who's going to make us pay?! 💀💀💀
@@seanthe100 probably global warming when the lobster populations move further north.
World War I started in 1914. World War II started in 1939. You were late for that one, as well.
{:o:O:}
The United States didn't enter World War I until 1917
@@OfftheCuff_Series
I KNOW! They were late for both events.
{:o:O:}
@@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095
But without the United States entering World War II.
Yeah, I’ll leave it at that.
1 million licenses. 100,000 a day ...
Theres an american island i beleive that is only accssible by going through canada or canadian waters in minnesota/manitoba or maybe im getting it confused with this island
Are you thinking of Angle Inlet? We have a video about that place as well 🤘
The grey zone for sale?
13:14 gets Caught in Canada and sold in USA.
Just like the Americans take Canadian oil, and sell it back to Canadians.
Yeah, not really sorry that you get the shaft on this deal, as Canadians get the shaft in every other department.
If the island claims themselves canadian then perhaps maybe make the line more clear. The Gray Zone is fine how about giving the Americans the same fishing laws that canada has so they are not losing out. That poor guy works hard to get what he can and has to toss a lobster back because it is 1 inch to big. This is a simple fix and like most I think it is fixable by just the governments alone.
Whatever happened to the 200 mile limit?
Nothing happened to it. The island is within both countries 200 mile limits.
In the interests of keeping the lobster fishery sustainable.The amount and size of lobster caught and kept has to be the same for both Canada and the US.I'm a Canadian and it appears that some lobstermen are stealing the breeding future for a fast buck today.
The measures for smalls are the same size only difference is they cant keep them over a certain size. They have fellow Americans down past maine on american side, that are allowed to keep bigger lobsters, and of course canada can. Maine cant. Simply change the rule and join the rest of us. On your side the border and the other side. Not Canada's fault they cant get shit done
Speaking as a Lobster fishermen out of the south shore in nova scotia. No we dont keep the “breeding future” any breeding females are illegal to keep and must be thrown back
In new Brunswick natives fish baby lobsters all the time and sell them $2 each.
@@canadianmmaguy7511 ive heard stories of them keeping seed bearing females without punishment its absolute bullshit if true
Yas mama slay the girlie lobster boots down *tongue pop* Daddy getting coin lobster qween!
Canada needs all the Lobster it can get , Mc Donald’s in Eastern Canada serve Mc Lobster 🦞
The American fisherman is salty asf lol