Tier Ranking Every Trope EVER! (or, some of them)
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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I forgot to mention in the video, I used a different background for the standard tropes and setting tropes. But since the background for the standard tropes ended up making the text more difficult to see... I should have just gone with the settings background 😂
I'd personally be really interested to see a video about books that did your favorite tropes dirty (unless you've already done that, in which case I have some archive searching to do). :)
“Here comes the cavalry” is probably my favorite trope of all time. I’m just a sucker for it.
I love when it's A) something unusual that's acting as "the cavalry", not necessarily literally supporting troops during a battle, and B) just barely enough to let the characters earn the win. When it's "Now we have a chance".
@@nathanhall9345 reminds me of late wheel of time
My favourite tropes are probably "Found Family", which you had on the tierlist, "Power hurts user", where someone uses a tool or a technique that gives them the edge over their enemy but at a great cost to themselves or to others, and "Villain is the reverse theme" like when you'd have a hero that's all about freedom and a villain that wants control, or a hero that's all about giving and a villain that's all about taking. It doesn't need to be a literal "giving/taking things away" but it would ideally reflect how these two are percieved within the story as opposites.
Ooh I do like all of these as well
Same! Also, One Piece content creators have ingrained in my brain to think about that last one as "two sides of the same coin" lol
Bad at picking favorites but three of my top tropes:
- Childhood friends: Doesn't matter if it's platonic or romantic, I just adoooore when characters have that "I've known you my whole life" level of history together, especially if it's paired with "can only fully be my true self around you".
- Loss of autonomy/danger to allies: It's hard for me to decide whether to call this "favorite" or "least favorite". I will spend absolutely forever thinking about the character relationships when it's there, but I have difficulty actually engaging with media that uses it because it makes me so _viscerally_ uncomfortable. Love it but need to keep it at arms' length.
- Healing through mundanity: Big dramatic moments of growth are awesome and I eat them up, but sometimes you just want to see the cast get a chance to catch their breath and do normal crap together as they work out how to be people again. Think COVID really brought this out of a lot of people judging by the rise of cozy fantasy.
I love the grumpy/ sunshine trope as a friendship trope! Would be happy to hear any suggestions for books have that (in friendship form)
I'm just replying to this comment to get a notification when someone does answer hahaha
The Way of Kings (Kaladin and Syl, as well as several others in the series)
Also Mistborn era 2 to a smaller degree (Wax and Wayne)
Also I think there are lots of stories where a grumpy old man makes friends with a kid? I can't think of many that I've read myself (the one I can think of that I have read is The Book Thief, with a middle-aged grumpy couple fostering a kid), but I think A Man Called Ove and The Door-To-Door Bookstore both have this trope?
I do enjoy the grumpy sunshine in a romantic sense especially if the sunshine is one of the few ppl to make the grumpy one happy. I do think in a platonic sense it is elevated to an even higher level. There is so much comedic opportunities. I think it's also fun seeing two very different ppl be good friends and going on whatever adventure they are goin on in the book. It's also really fun when it's family members in books who fit that
You're not alone, Merphy: I don't like the soulmates trope either!
I recently discovered I actually do like enemies to lovers! I'm just very picky about how it's written. They have to be interesting, layered characters with actual chemistry for it to work, and also I don't like one-sided mean behavior or one-sided power imbalance. Either make them both reasonably good people who really clash at first but grow to love each other as they get to know each other better, or make them both do bad things without excusing this behavior. There also needs to be a believable reason why they hate each other (not just one stupid misunderstanding) and a believable reason why they love each other (not just finding each other hot). Just my take on this divisive trope :)
What I love even more though is enemies to friends. I love unlikely friendships!
if you have any recs please feel free to share I've been looking for books like you described for way too long it actually hurts lol
@@ahlama.o9837 Alright, here are some enemies to lovers recommendations then :). All of these are fantasy (or in one case sci-fi) subplots, not the main plot, since I rarely read romance or romantasy.
(Warning: this does also mean not all of these couples will necessarily have a happy ending.)
Six of Crows
- Believable reasons to hate each other, and believable reasons to love each other
- Good banter
- Good redemption arc
The Folk of the Air trilogy (starting with The Cruel Prince)
- Both characters are flawed and do nasty things, and this is acknowledged
- 'Spicy' tension and physical attraction are well-written instead of feeling forced
- Good banter
- Romantic connection felt lacking to me at first, but this got better in book 3 and the optional short story book from the guy's pov
Skyward
- Reasonably good people clash at first because of pride, prejudice and privilege
- Believable reasons to hate each other, and believable reasons to love each other
- More romantic and platonic connection, less of a physical element to their feelings
Gideon the Ninth
- Childhood enemies, gradually growing into implied lovers (I don't think they even kiss, so it might not be 'lovers' enough for some readers, but it seems pretty clear that they're each other's everything by the end of the book)
- Extreme enemy moments as well as good emotional connection moments
- Good banter
- Both characters are very flawed
All of these have little to no spice, so if you want something with spicier scenes, you'll have to ask someone else.
Does this help you out a bit?
@@booklanerecommendations thank you soooo soooooo much you are sincerely a lifesaver can't wait to get into these :)
@@ahlama.o9837 You're very welcome :)
Are there any in particular that caught your eye?
Top 3:
Morals vs Logic Dichotomy
Self Sacrifice for the ACTUAL greater good.
Old Magic
Honorable Mentions:
Good vs Evil (yeah I'm that LotR/Star Wars guy)
Rivals->Friends->Lovers
I HAD to wait until the end to make sure you loved battle banter. That was important to me. Carry on. :)
1:09 ♫ It's Merph! Hi! She's the problem, It's Merph! ♫
I would love your recommendations on platonic grumpy sunshine!
Top 3 favourites:
1. Deus ex machina at a character's death, the character still dies but is given enough time/power to achieve his or her goal + please let him or her talk to a/the God if there is a god somewhere in the story as a conclusion
2. Self-sacrifice after a long negligence of duties (basically a special redemption arc)
3. Childhood friends deepening their bond in maturity (but not becoming lovers)
I would love a recommendation video for each of your insta love tropes!
Miscommunication tropes drive me absolutely insane. Although I've read the wheel of time a bunch and it's one of my all time favorites, there are SO many examples in that series where many many problems could have been solved or avoided if the characters just talked to each other instead of making assumptions. If I ever write a book that's one of the main things that I'll try to avoid at all cost🤣
Amnesia is my all time favorite trope :) found family, and friends to lovers are also favs
I freaking love the “what is human” / “becoming human” trope in television. Battlestar Galactica, Dexter, Data from Star Trek. Good stuff.
I love this kind of video, provides insight into overall tastes of my favorite booktubers
Just from looking at the top tier on this I feel like Merphy would love Nadia: Secret of the Blue Water. It's a nautical adventure with ancient artifacts, ancient ruins, found family, a closed setting (a submarine!), nature and long journeys. It's loosely based on Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea so there's a lot of underwater shenanigans and mysteries.
YES! You are so right! It does tick a lot of her boxes. Such a good series. I really have to watch it again (thankfully I’ve got the DVDs…). My father disliked all the animes I watched as a child/teenager, but this he watched with me.
I love Gwynne’s take on Chosen One trope in The Faithful & the Fallen series, such a great series
5:57
I don't understand why but I love old mentors so much. As a teenager, I know I should chaff at authority but I love it when there is someone who is worried about what he chosen one has to do, wants to protect them from it but knows they can't.
P.S. Damn it! I do know why I like it. Why does everything I love come back to my personal life??
One of my favorite tropes is a powerhouse character that are so badass but not from their own perspective. It's niche, but once you start noticing it, it's everywhere.
Personally my two least favorite tropes are "Fish Out of Water" and "The Plot Depends on No One Talking to Each Other".
I don’t mind Fish Out of Water when done well, but I HATE the plot depends on misunderstanding that could be resolved in 2 sentences, especially when the characters talk to each other throughout the story 😡
Ancient artefact/civilization trope: Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds, I haven't read it yet but it's been on my TBR for a while and it's about an archaeologist on another planet studying the ruins a long dead alien civilization and trying to figure out what caused their civilization to die out.
I love Ancient Artifacts and Ancient Ruins, too, Merphy! I share your enthusiasm completely. 😁 Any good books to recommend that focus on mysterious ruins or fantastical/alien remnants of unknown origin? 🤩Also, I have a Fake Dating story to recommend to you! Seven Days in Silverglen, on Webtoons [unfortunately]. Made by the same creator as Always Human, it's such a funny, sweet, wholesome story.
Anyway, I can't list my top three, it's just utterly impossible, so here's my top twenty favourite tropes, and top twenty least favourite tropes, in no particular order.
[giant text wall incoming]
Favourite:
Found Families
Badass and Child Duo [has to be done in such a way that both of them contribute and the child isn't annoying]
Friends To Lovers [I'm demiromantic, so no wonder]
No-Nonsense Villain [no stupid/nonsensical decision-making or overly convoluted plans]
Cloudcuckoolander [I love these kinds of characters]
Noodle Incidents [hehe]
Friendly/Benevolent Aliens [I want more of this, please!]
Utopias That Are Genuine Utopias [not sure if this has an actual name; I mean utopias that aren't secretly dystopias or have some huge flaw that makes them not actual utopias]
Ancient Artifacts + Ancient Ruins
Lost Lands/Secret Continents [bonus points if the people living there are friendly, or if there's just ruins everywhere]
A Form You Are Comfortable With + You Cannot Grasp The True Form
Blue and Orange Morality [I've hardly ever seen it done well, or at least in a way that's not 'weird/inhuman for the sake of it']
Eldritch Abominations
Anthropomorphic Personifications [thanks to Neil Gaiman for starting my love of sapient concepts]
Don't Fear The Reaper [gotta love a friendly Death!]
Decaying Divinity/Dying Gods [not sure what the actual trope name is, but I watched Curious Archives' video on it, so that's where I got the name]
Living Forever is Awesome [can't wait to watch Frieren!]
Heroic Sacrifices [I'm still waiting for Red to do a Trope Talk on this!]
Least:
Romanticising Toxic Relationships [including Love Redeems, Hurt To Protect, and I Will Wait For You]
Fake-Out Deaths [Disney! *shakes fist*]
Arbitrary Magic Systems
Always Chaotic Evil [I'm always asking 'but why are they evil and how do they function as a society????']
Black and White Morality [boring at best, preachy at worst]
Planet of the Hats [*sigh*]
Any contrived relationship drama [includes Love Triangles, Insta-Love, Last Minute Romantic Pair-Ups, Miscommunications]
Because Destiny Says So [when I'm always going, 'but....why?! this is so contrived!' and the answer is just 'because fate']
Divine Right to Rule [same reason]
Grimdark [no, thank you]
Fate Worse Than Death [aaaaahhhhhhhhhh]
Humans Are The Real Monsters [yeah, no]
Villain Has A Point But Status Quo Rules [not sure if this has an actual name; it's when the villains make a critique of a current in-story system or societal issue, and they're right about the flaws, but it doesn't matter because the status quo is like a deity]
Balance Between Good and Evil [this makes no sense to me whatsoever; you're going to....balance the universe by adding more terrible things???? What????]
The Magic Goes Away [whyyyyy! It's so depressing! Just because Tolkien did it doesn't mean I like it! Especially bad if it's in a children's story and it's going away because growing up means no magic for no adequately explained reason]
Deus/Diablos ex Machina [not sure which is worse--the author solving things out of nowhere, or the author making things worse out of nowhere]
Thank you for reading my giant lists. 😀
Top 3 Tropes: Found Family, Old Mentor, Nature.
I think we generally agree on tropes, but even of those in your lower tiers, I can still think of favorite books of mine that used each of them so well. (I tend to love the calvary...)
Top favorites:
1. All-loving Hero: This is one that seems to be semi-unpopular (usually considered "unrealistic") these days, but I have loved it since I was tiny and I'll never give it up. Give me a really, really good guy and I'm there for the ride, especially if he has to go through the worst possible things imaginable as a result of his morals.
2. Best Friends through everything: I live to watch friends interact! Don't care if they're siblings, romance, or just long-time buddies.
3. Break the cutie: Probably could have guessed that based on my number 1. I definitely wondered for a large portion of my life if something was wrong with me for liking my characters to be put through torture.
I do love me some Self-sacrifice and Good vs. Evil too.
Tragic past and a brute with a loving heart/ lovable rogue are my favorites.
And when a character wants to be good but has to do bad things like Prince Jorg or Shivers.
Perfect grumpy sunshine in platonic relationships it's Roce and Hadrian and I Love Them
1: Childhood friends. Bonus points if narratively relevant comedic relief character.
2: Irreconcilable Differences. A specifically when antagonist(s) who may-or-may-not be the "good guy" in their story, but they believe in something that - even if novel or respectable - is irreconcilable with the protagonist(s) and the world at large.
3: Unlikely heroes. Also applies for unlikely partnerships / relationships as well, but doesn't usually glue me to the story as much initially (but will over time.)
Honestly, after this video and the shipping video on dude in a room channel, i am so happy to find someone who share the same thought process as me. This is probably the first time I deeply want to be friends with a youtuber. But, anyways, atleast I can trust Merphy's recommendations more.
Going to do my ranking along with Merphy =D I'm sure we're going to differ quite a bit but it'll be cool to compare.
-Ancient Artifact: *eye roll*
-Chosen one: *eye roll*
-Animal companion: We can be friends
-Elemental Magic: Insta-love
-Ancient ruins: *shrug*
-Old Mentor: Insta-love (hate how they always die 😭)
-Haunted small town: We can be friends
-Closed room: *shrug*
-Seaside: We can be friends
-Nature: We can be friends
-Found family: Insta-love
-Redemption: Insta-love
-Amnesia: *eye roll*
-Corruption: We can be friends
-Long journey: Insta-love
-Evil overlord: *eye roll*
-Calvery: GO SOMEWHERE ELSE
-Were we the baddies: *Shrug*
-Nameless thing in the dark: We can be friends
-Prophesy: *Eye roll*
-Betrothal: *Shrug*
-Tragic backstory: We can be friends
-Time travel: *Shrug*
-Magic school: *Shrug*
-Alternate and Parallel universe: *Eye roll* (Marvel ruined this for me)
-What is human?: We can be friends
-Who's the real monster?: We can be friends
-Robots free will: *Shrug*
-Friendly aliens: *Shrug*
-Deadly aliens: *Shrug* (seems I'm indifferent about Sci-fi)
-Dystopian future: We can be friends
-Time paradox: Insta-love
-Time loop: *Shrug*
-Modifications: *Eye roll*
-Lost in space: We can be friends
-Immortal: We can be friends
-Love triangle: GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TWILIGHT!!!! 🤣
-Second chance: We can be friends
-Enemies to lovers: We can be friends
-Friends to lovers: *Eye roll*
-Fake dating: Go somewhere else
-Grumpy sunshine: We can be friends
-We've secretly been talking: Go somewhere else
-Cheating: *Shrug*
-Age gap: *Shrug*
-Soul mate: GO SOMEWHERE ELSE
-Vampires/Werewolves: *Eye roll*
-Miscommunication: *Eye roll*
-Banter during battle: Insta-love (was going to go 'We can be friends' but you sold me)
This was such a fun way to watch the video =D
I think overused tropes can be overcome so long as the author does not label it the trope in the book. When a character calls the baddy "The Dark One" or "The Dark Lord" it makes me groan. Age Of Ash by Daniel Abraham has a definite dark lord but at no point does that phrase escape anyone's mouth. And oh what an awesome villain it is too.
Depending on how common a trope is, there is a degree of subversion necessary to avoid being merely lazy. For example, "chosen one" is rarely employed in its original bright-eyed form anymore. At the very least, the chosen one is reluctant, or the fact that they're chosen turns out to be a lie, or the one doing the choosing ends up to be evil.
This is a good point. I feel that way about found family - I really love the idea, but if the characters actually call each other "family" within the story it's an instant turnoff for me lol
@@emmaelizabeth3373 funny you say that--"friends" has become a trigger word for me. "I'm here to help... My... Friends!" I cringe half to death. "Emotion" is another one as in, "what makes us human isn't intelligence, it's ✨ emotion✨". 🙄
I know it's ridiculous (and then retconned out of reality), but my favorite time travel/time loop subplot remains Church in Red vs Blue. It was handled extremely well while also being hilarious. "Sheila, I'm sorry I blamed you for killing me all this time." "That's ok, Church. I'm sorry I enjoyed it so much."
RIP rooster teeth
YESSS
I am new subscriber & knowing your taste i can't stop thinking about how much you would like 7 seeds manga. This manga is top josei manga with many awards but yet underrated among manga community. It has dystopian, sci-fi, post apocalyptic world, found family, lots of characters, morally grey characters, ancient artifacts & ruins, deadly viruses, nature, seaside, islands, animals as partners, haunted closed ships, abandoned haunted islands, friendship, lovers, & lots more tags. As the plot progress manga becomes more interesting & engaging. I really love how the main characters aren't choosen ones here, they were as insurance for choosen ones. When i started reading i couldn't stop. I know for some people artstyle would be little iffy but trust me the plot, settings & characters are worth it. I also love how main two characters are girls. Both of them are capable, observant, knowledgeable yet different in nature. This manga has equal number of women & men with their unique characteristics & part to play in plot. Women are not dependent on men instead they are saving them. They are capable of surviving on their own also taking care of others.
Overview - It is set in a post-apocalyptic future, long enough after a meteorite hits Earth that new species have evolved, and follows the struggles of five groups of young adults to survive after they are revived from cryonic preservation. The title comes from five groups of individuals in cryogenic chambers along with supplies, called "seeds", laid down by the Japanese government.
Everyone just trust me & read this manga you wouldn't regret. And if anyone has already read it pls send me some recommendations of books & manga similar to 7 seeds.
Amnesia and friendly aliens was one of the best books I read in the last few years... Project Hail Mary
Loved this! :) my three fav are definitely banter during battle, grumpy sunshine (Royce and Hadrian), and a rendition arc (when it’s done well)
With the ancient/relic/ruin trope that you love, you might want to think about adding my works to your read list some day @Merphy Napier | Books. Two universes to choose from (sci-fi or fantasy) Just a thought
Regarding the "haunted small town"- Trope, especially with the addition seaside small town... my mind instantly went to the Netflix Show "Marianne". That is a french Horror show and imo super underrated. Could be something for you.
Shifting from The Chosen One to The One Who Chose, YES.
I used to be really into dystopian futures during the YA Dystopian era with Hunger Games, Mazerunner (Not you, Divergent) etc. but I dont thin'k I really have favorite tropes anymore. It just depends way too much on the execution of it. Like, I usually do not like love triangles, but I was at the cinema 2 weeks ago and saw Challengers, and wow, it is done well there, such a good movie.
Probably says something about me the fact that I put most of these tropes into shrug. Tropes for the most part really don't motivate me to read a book. And all the romance ones were just immediately put into go somewhere else. I do not care for romance, but if I read one I would just rather it be well written than follow any particular trope. As for tropes that I like, I put chosen one into the top category because I like it when the characters don't have a choice and I especially love it when it is framed as a tragedy. It is also really interesting reading about how it affects the world and the politics and how it will then respond to the chosen one. For similar reasons prophecy is put in the top tier, and I also love it when they can't avoid it but they fight like hell anyway to avoid it. Time travel is also typically a yes for me. Time speculative in general just really appeals, and like you I enjoy nautical tales so seaside really works for me. I cannot give you a top trope list but I do really enjoy when academia and academic themes are in books, and I love earthly/plant gothic tales. I see that more as a genre but I also see time travel as more of a genre so I am putting it here. Dystopian futures is easily in insta-love. Like the academic and earthly/plant gothic I have a section dedicated to it on my bookshelf. I put vampires and werewolves in the go somewhere else category even though I have been giving vampires at least a real chance over the past lot of years and I've studied werewolves in university, but I haven't read much werewolf novels and I don't think they would appeal for the most part, and with vampire I have a very complicated relationship with. I put redemption in shrug because I haven't read very many good ones but also the redeemed character doesn't always stick out or matter to me. For example, my favourite characters in avatar is Katara followed by Sokka, and in second tier I would put Suki and Mai (who arguably did have a redemption arc but I don't really consider it one because it happens in a split decision and more of a line she would not cross than any development or growth as a character). Zuko is much further down the line. Meanwhile corruption arc is in insta-love.
I love the discussion and the reasoning! And is it wrong that I love that Merphy can't spell??! :) It just makes her more real. :)
‘What are we talking about again? Amnesia.’
Amnesia was done well with Dalinar imo
My top fave tropes are alternate/ multiple realities (like in Dark Matter), enemies to lovers (cause I just love that kinda moody broody energy), and when the character is figuring out their own world (like in Piranesi).
Shocking how much I agree with you. I will list the only tropes that I rate 2 categories lower than you.
1) Seaside. I love the beach in person, but I'm indifferent to it in books.
2) Corruption. I read books for fun. For me, seeing the downfall of a good character is rarely enjoyable.
3) Deadly Aliens. Shrug. It could be great or terrible.
4) Fake Dating. Shrug.
My favorite tropes are probably Found Family, Betrothal, and I love a good Curse. Whether it’s a cursed a person, artifact, place etc
Honorable mentions: Time travel, Elemental Magic, Seaside, Fake Dating
Anyone know any book recommendations for things like this but without an inappropriate romance? I like romance, I just don’t feel the need to read ~in the bedroom things~ 😅😊
So I need to write a book about a couple with a grumpy sunshine feeling who joins an old mentor on a journey into space with his current crew, then they all end up lost in space until eventually they find their way to an old sea covered and forested planet. Then while there the only "safety" they find is in an ancient ruin of a spooky/haunted small sea side town. There they find old artifacts hinting at some nameless evil that was the planet's downfall. The artifacts end up granting elemental magic. And with that magic and the power of their new found family (who were brought close together by the old mentor dying) they are able to defeat the old evil in a battle with lots of banter. And that old evil actual ends up being deadly aliens. And somewhere in there it is revealed that the couple wasn't really dating at all. Great. I'll get working on it right away for you!
I feel like you'll love the "Summertime Rendering" manga. It has that seaside haunted eerie town motif
Any good betrothel recs?
I loved the remnant chronicles and have read a couple of stand alones I also liked. So now I am on the hunt for more :D
I personally am a love triangle defender… I know they can be done badly but when they’re done in a way that it’s like a representation of a character choosing between different paths in life or different elements of their personality I think it works so well. Like I think Hunger Games is actually a really good example of this (except for Gale constantly whining about it ugh)
Also I love here comes the cavalry, I know it’s too easy and overdone but it just always feels epic and often makes me quite emotional… like I definitely cried at that bit in Endgame, I can’t help it
Personally I don't mind a love triangle, but I'm always let down in the end because I have STRONG second-lead syndrome. I always end up wanting the wrong guy to win. Combine a love triangle with an enemies-to-lovers trope with the "enemy" winning over the second-lead in the end, and it pretty much ruins the book for me.
Man I thought I loved a tragic backstory until I read the ACOTAR series 🫠 by the third book I was begging for everyone to stop
Prophecy in most books I've read tends to be obviously misinterpreted by the characters/society/etc, and then some off-the-wall set of circumstances aligns with them. I like the little prophecies in the Wheel of Time; most of the ones that the reader gets right away, but hardly any characters understand.
Hmm I don't know what tropes are my fav. I do love a good school/training story, found family, and a grumpy sunshine/rivals (I think enemies to lovers with actual growth on either side).
I know it is not tla book, but the amnesia trope is used rather briliantly in the doctor who episode "Time Heist"
I've literally been thinking that you would love Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir, but now that I know that you hate amnesia and friendly aliens, maybe not lol
Enemies to lovers has to done right for me to like it. If the villain is still bad and the person they hurt falls into a trauma bond/stolkholm syndrome kinda thing, and it’s not portrayed as ✨relationship goals✨*coughtwitlightcough* then I can appreciate it.
I’m also picky about soulmate, I need it to be more than 😍we’re meant to be. I want them to still have to work for the relationship
The only two times the Amnesia Trope worked for me were both written by Tappei Nagatsuki. One in the Anime "Vivy - Fluorite Eye Song" and then in the Light Novel / Upcoming third season of Re: Zero. Both times it was way more characterfocused and brought incredible moments.
Ooh, top 3? Maybe
- Quest
- Lost Magic
- Hidden Civilizations
Now I’m curious. I’m gonna have to think about this and maybe do something of my own with tropes. This was fun.
-T
Just came from the thumbnail, have to watch the video. I personally love enemies/rivals to (friends to) lovers, I think what annoys me is when other dynamics or even power imbalances get labeled that way. Nothing cute about when only one can’t stand the other or when someone thinks bullying or bigotry is that trope.
However when they annoy each other mutually, the chemistry is just there and the relationship is not just built upon just “ugh I hate them, they’re so hot”. It’s just soo good! But like with every (apart from just plain toxic ones) trope and every overused trope, the writing is what matters!
For me love triangle is what I hate so much. Especially if it goes on for a book or even worse a trilogy etc. I can’t handle drama like that. 😂
Do you have any recomendations for enemies to lovers? Its a prompt for my libraries reading challenge and I have had no luck with the books I normally read.
Love a good clavery story
I can't pick favorites off the top of my head, but some of my least favorites are any retcons, and the secret society who was actually controlling the other secret society that is the real bbeg.
I eyeroll at "are we the baddies" unless it's done well - it tends to bleed into "if I kill him I'll be just as bad!"
Best Tropes I love: journeys/quests/voyages; nature/forests; pirates and ships; heists/pickpockets/thieves guilds; found families; artifacts and ruins; protagonists who use canniness/knowledge/intelligence/science to make their way in the world and/or defeat the villain; swordfighting; aliens of all sorts; discovering new lands (fantasy) or new planets (sci-fi). That's all I can think of right now.
When you said prophecy I started thinking how I just ignore it lol then you said you do the same
You're not the only one who struggles with ruins and runes. The classic Star Trek City on the Edge of Forever includes a bunch of ancient ruins on the planet because some set designer misread runes. The Guardian was supposed to be surrounded by old writings on the walls, not by busted walls.
Have you read the Raven Cycle series? It has nature and found family and amazingness
My fav tropes are:
Found-family, time paradox (if it was well executed), grumpy sunshine (platonically)
My least fav tropes:
Cheating, miscommunication, regression and second chance combined
I don't like it when the MC was abused/cheated/betrayed in their first timeline and when they regressed and start a new journey all over again, the MC still ended up with that person. Like.. ARE YOUR EXPERIENCE FROM THE PREVIOUS TIMELINE IS A JOKE??😭😭
"Found Family" is always a winning trope for me; also, "Old Mentor" and "Ancient Artifact." Those are the top three for me that currently come to mind.
Banter during battle is one that can ruin entire conflicts in narratives.
Are you thinking of Lovecraft's Innsmouth for the haunted(?) seaside town?
Oooooh I interpret "the chosen one" trope so differently 😅 maybe it's just me, but when it's a chosen one thing my instant thought is: alright prove it. 😂
The problem with love triangles is that it is always obvious whom she is going to chose, she has one mandatory kiss with the other guy and then she is back with mr. right. I also usually like the other guy most.
The Red Notebook was sort of a we've secretly been talking. The woman was in a coma (first chapter, really not a spoiler), so I'm not sure it 100% fits the trope, but I really liked it.
I am a big fan of the what it means to be human trope but me being a huge cyberpunk fan I think it tracks
Whole-heartedly agree with your take on enemies to lovers.
My top 3 tropes in fantasy; 1) quest; 2) prophesized hero quest; 3) the Armageddon trope.
I enjoyed the video.
What is the Armageddon ?
@@sylviejeanjean5412 . The end of the world/ apocalypse.
I think the tropes that you really don't like should be called "misantropes".
I love enemies to lovers and HATE miscommunication/refuse to communicate!
the thing with love triangles is I don't mind them when they're good, but most love triangles aren't good, and often they feel like they were shoehorned in as part of a mandate. but then, you could replace 'love triangles' with 'romance' in that sentence and my feelings are the exact same haha.
Mysterious unknown anythings that only get slightly known during the book are my cup'o'fun. Artifacts. Ruins. Magics. Even mentors!
Don't tell us everything, just enough for the plot and for us to wonder over the unknown possibilities. 😊
• elemental magic
• ancient ruins
• lackey is the real antagonist
My top 3 fav tropes
I love soulmates trope when the two people that are destined to be together don’t get together in the end because one of them chooses someone else that they’ve fallen in love with. It’s that ✨free will✨ that hits every time lol
A good half of these i wouldn't even define as tropes. It gets to a point where "if everything is a trope, then nothing is a trope" and this list is flirting with that.
You must love the vashta narada from Dr. who
I love a shady cabal of immortals pulling the strings i.e. Fullmetal Alchemist. More common than you'd think when you're looking for it.
I’m gonna write a book with a person that gets amnesia, then they get all their memories back the very next chapter. You would be intrigued to continue the book because the book has been shown to be unpredictable at that point.
Biggest agreements:
1) Cheating. I hate it. Like you, it gets even worse when they try to justify it.
2) Miscommunication. Hate it. When a few simple comments that any reasonable person could solve your whole plot problem, I'm out. Immersion and suspension of disbelief is gone. I can get behind magic and futuristic technologies, but but then the whole problem could have been avoided by a 30 second conversation that any reasonable people would have, that is more fictional than I can handle
3) Banter During Battle. I like having fun. When the main characters manage to have fun, even in difficult circumstances, I enjoy it. Plus, it can be hilarious.
4) Nameless thing in the dark. Subtle and implied horror is best. I am a large man with a martial arts background who knows his way around guns. Physical threats, like a chainsaw wielding maniac, zombies, or werewolves, aren't that scary. They are something I can comprehend, fight, and even destroy.
Some nameless thing that I can't come fight or even understand its existence is far more chilling and interesting in a story.
For me personally, I prefer the Lovecraftian approach. Give enough hints to create a good story, but leave the readers imagination to filling the details and leave the reader questioning the safety and possibly even the sanity of the world around us.
I'm not a huge fan of love triangles, because I often find they aren't used for anything more than plot tension. I think Hunger Games actually used it well, using Peeta and Gayle to sort of explore Katniss' psyche, with one representing her more violent side and the other representing her horror at the violence she's thrust into.
I'm all down for some dystopian 🤩
oooh any recs for the 'corruption' trope?
I know a few if you're interested:
- Best Served Cold by Joe Abercrombie (or honestly anything by Abercrombie)
- Death Note (anime or manga: I watched the anime, but I've heard both are good)
- The Secret History
- The Green Bone Saga (not necessarily one ongoing corruption arc, but this definitely has themes of corruption throughout)
- The Count of Monte Cristo (disclaimer: I haven't actually read this yet, but I know it's a revenge/corruption story and I want to read it at some point)
What when’d you read annihilation I was looking for your review awhile ago
I see tropes very differently, but I think that’s because of my background. For example, I think that all human fiction-even when all characters are nonhuman-is asking “what is human?” since fiction is always us telling ourselves stories about ourselves and our condition. The posthuman stuff is just another version of the most basic question we ask: who are we? And this question often implies “Who’s the monster?” Human in-groups like to define themselves against out-groups. If there’s a Beowulf and a Hrothgar, there’s typically an outsider, a Grendel. And then someone (John Gardner, in my example’s case) will humanize the outsider and invert the perspective. This is a different way of asking who “we” are and whether “we” and are really different/better/etc. Anne Carson’s Autobiography of Red is another fine example.
A lot of the tropes you hate show the long shadow of the Bible, which Blake called “the great code of art,” and even older bodies of ancient myth. Prophecy, for example, is almost as old as literature; ditto for chosenness. But I see those things as variations on “what is human?” So my hypothesis is that whether any of these tropes work in a given book depends on how well they happen to be used to ask the fundamental questions, “what is human? How should one live? What is good? What is evil? Why do we love who and what we love? Why are we different? What do we do with difference?”
In olden dayes, it was more common to speak of ye olde tropes in rhetorical terms: metaphor, synecdoche, metonymy, and fancy ones like metalepsis and hysteron proteron. These can occur at the level of the sentence and at the level of total structure. I sometimes think popular discussion of tropes talks about the results (generalized) instead of how we handle the tools to make the results. Your admission that all of these things CAN be done well suggests this isn’t a terribly controversial idea.
Some nerdy bookish thoughts for you. Happy Tuesday.
Read Mathew Reilly's 7 deadly wonders for your ancient relic fix
Merphy: i hate enemies to lovers
Me: aw no nisekoi then
Merphy: i love fake dating
Me: HOLD UP THERES A CHANCE
I know this is your book channel but I just had to respond to your love of haunted village by recommending checking out the TV series "Higurashi When They Cry"
I really love how Final Fantasy XIV does the "Chosen One" trope. At the start its played pretty straight. You're the god Hydalen's chosen one. Other people can hear her voice and also have her gifts, but shes pretty specifically invested in YOU, and you wind up being the go-to person to solve most of the worlds problems. Pretty arbitrary, right? Well, spoilers for Shadowbringers and Endwalker, but:
It turns out Hydalen bestows her gifts onto literally anyone who has the ability to hear her voice, and the ability to hear her voice is triggered in people through external circumstances, so that's not even something she has full control over. Moreover, souls in FFXIV reincarnate, and you find out you're the reincarnation of a guy from the ancient world whos job in the world government essentially boiled down to "Be an adventurer." They just traveled the world, meeting people and helping them out wherever they went. Your 'chosen-ness' isn't necessarily because you used to be some kinda all-powerful being or something - you're just someone whos naturally compassionate. Who inherently loves adventure and helping people wherever you can.
Then, in Endwalker, you're sent back in time, and meet the woman who would eventually become Hydalen, and it also removes a lot of the power and mystery from the situation, humanizing her. Shes not some all-powerful omnipotent being - shes someone struggling to save the world she loves through whatever means she can. It also makes the concept of 'destiny' kind of wierd cus she doesn't actually have insight into literal destiny... she'd just heard stories of what was going to happen... FROM you. You're only destined to be her chosen one because you traveled back in time and told her that she made you her chosen one, and now thats sorta just what has to happen otherwise it'd be a time paradox.
What do you call the trope where one character inspires another while they're at their lowest?
Its not really a trope but I wish it were, Happily married couples going on adventures together.
I LOVE found family.
Enemies to lovers not technically. I like the misunderstood enemies to lovers 😆 so like not really enemies in the first place.
MENTOR TROPES I LOVE BUTTTTT they always freaking kill the mentor. I'm always waiting for the BOOM now you cry your eyes out because they were the best.