The answer for DS2 Deprived run would be the Vanquisher seal. Obtained by giving Awestones to the Champion covernant. There is a trick to farm those, There is a inviter who respawns at the place where the small rat boss is. The ring gives you the ability to duel wield your fists and gives you +200atk
The most fun I had in DS2 was the beginning as a deprived, looking as every weapon as something to build to. The least fun I had was not realizing what ADP did.
@@sirbill_greebi3811 The most fun i had was with The Boxer build Two Caestus, Power Stance and beating the everloving snot out of heavily armored knights never felt so good. Genuinely a good time and not much of a challenge run as i thought initially. Turns out blunt damage resistance is pretty rare in enemies in DS2
Gwyn: "Why are you smiling?" Wanderer: "Because I know something you do not know. I am not left handed." (this is a Princess Bride reference, and I REALLY hope it's not going unrecognised, or I'm getting really old.)
@@allgreatfictions I've seen that movie. Granted, it was only once. Well, half-once. How can it only be half-once? Because I forgot the rest of this quote, that's how.
@@sirbill_greebi3811 I'm sorry but this quote is dead dead which is different from mostly dead mostly dead there's a chance but your quote is dead dead
For the cleric, I think something that myself and others screw up with is focusing completely on faith at first so we can throw lightning instead of being a good melee character who can shoot lightning.
Hell, you run a good chance of never finding the altar in DS1. I wanted to focus on miracles/paladin style on my first character and I missed the altar entirely and Rhea's questline, I don't think I got emit force either (if you answer sieg wrong or don't talk to him before he moves.) So I basically had heal, great heal, and great heal excerpt and divine weapons. The heal spells are invaluable for a new player, letting you save estus for boss fights. That every single offensive miracle and most miracles period in the game can be missed and pretty easily really added to that early dark souls reputation. Though, back in 1.00, homeward bones were excruciatingly, painfully rare, so Homeward was a legit feature of miracles.
😅yeah, thing is, the dex stat is low, so the spear is veeeeery slow, however! The Mace is one of the best weapons, you can boost str to 27, and you’re pretty much golden, and after a while, boost faith in order to use sunlight/darkmoon blade.
I mean, I guess it doesnt have to be said, but this ruleset really did the Sorcerer dirty. He really isnt meant to work with just his starting equipment, unlike martial classes which can utilize any weapons to their max effect
@@Soapy-chan yes, but they're not meant to do so. Like, you could compare weapons on how much damage they deal in one attack, but obviously there's other factors in play
personally I feel these rules are a bit unfair toward sorcerer. spells aren't really equipment, they are more like, arrows to your bow. and specially considering that in DS1 you can't upgrade catalysts, I'd arguee than more than that, getting better spells for your catalist is like getting upgrades for your weapon will admit is a bit of a subjective point though, since different spells can do actually different stuff, as oposed to regular upgrading from a weapon where all it does is increase damage, is hard to reach a balance
@@connorburris4846 Yes, but because he started with the basic soul arrow he was allowed to buy more of the same because it was a duplicate. The issue, is that by the time Artorius rolled around each of those Soul arrows was only doing 12 damage.
Kyle, if you plan to do DS2, don't forget about the vanquisher's seal, it absolutely melts bosses when using only fists, you could say its the only way to beat the game with Deprived
I think that being able to level up weapons all the way but not allowing better spells/pyromancies/Miracles kind of artificially makes those classes worse. I think if your not gonna get better spells you should also stop weapon reinforcements at +5
This would have been a lot more interesting at starting level for all classes, and all items required to be used. With levels and unequipping it largely comes down to which class has the best weapon, rather than which one has the best overall loadout.
I would disagree with the ascended pyromancy flame, here. Simply because it's not really an item change more of an item level up depicting the increased power that Qualana, can give you as one of the first pyromancers.
One thing you may not know, is the spider shield gives very high poison resistance. It's possible to block multiple toxic darts in Blighttown and not become toxic
I wonder if an interesting stipulation to help keep the class' identities rather than have all of them turn into str/dex/quality builds would be to have them all preserve the initial order of highest to lowest stats e.g. the dark souls 2 knight would have to have Vigor be its highest stat, followed by strength, then adaptability, dexterity, etc. In the case of stats that start tied, you get to choose what order you put those tied stats in, since it's not super feasible to always level up all of such stats at once (cough, deprived, endcough). If you did things this way, I feel like it's fair to let classes add new spells as well as new rings, since otherwise classes like sorcerer are left with a choice between shitty split scaling on top of a shitty low damage weapon, or an uninfused dagger when they can't just pump dex and all their points in int are wasted, on top of the fact that it would let spellcaster classes actually do something with the attunement they're forced to level. Of course, for Dark Souls 2 this matters less as infusions are at their best, and I'm not necessarily suggesting you change the nature of these runs part way through the series, it's more just that this is an idea inspired by your video.
The knight has special place in my heart sense it's the class i started with in my first playthrough and it kinda carried me through some bosses and places like the capra demon and the sewers. Great video btw and ithink the most dropped mask is the mother this thing huntes me to this day
Just finishing the intro, based on the rules laid out, I'm going to predict that the sorcerer ended up as the most challenging class due to the limited number of spells that it can use, and being locked into only having the basic Soul Arrow. 28:20 Huh, the AOE2 music actually fits really well for this. 28:50 and it looks like my prediction was right. Wasn't expecting the Thief to be here too though.
there's this guy out there called TrevTheDev that has been doing videos about mathematically optimized damage in Dark Souls and, in a lot of the run he done with the mathematically optimized damaged he used the Hand Axe from the Pyromancer and I was surprised on how good that weapon is, it's definitely a slept on weapon that can do a lot of damage, it's nearly like some secret curved sword. anyways, as someone that always picks the Wanderer as my starting class (since I always build DEX and maybe INT sometimes, which is basically almost DEX in this game if you wanna have good casting speed) excellent video! I think the same concept would be interesting in Elden Ring (predicting the Thief and the Knife will still suck lol)
The Bandit in Elden Ring would actually probably be the second best other than the samurai, because the starting weapon does bleed damage and it's a dex arcane stat load out.
@@robertwye9463Truthfully Prophet is better for dex arc, no int, passable str to wield, and you can boost faith either by some small levels, or tear +godrick rune/two finger talisman, as 31 faith is more than enough for the communion seal, this allows you to be both a caster with fast casting speed thanks to dex, or melee if the situation requires it
In terms of its r1 attacks the hand axe is literally a curved sword, with its r2's being regular axe r1's The best part of the hand axe is something that only works in pvp - kick to r1 is a true combo(like with katanas). You have the infinite stunlock power of a curved sword with the kick combo starter of a katana
I recently finished the game with only Hunter´s equipment it was a breeze. I think you are underestimating the bow´s power at +15. You can just lure most enemies, cheese Manus, cheese Sif... Cheese ingward, kill the hydras easy mode... using a bow makes dark souls so, so easy.
Small correction here: The Leather Shield from the wanderer has the 2nd best defenses of any small shield, only surpased by the Effigy Shiled, which has the highest lightning resistance in the game but weighs 3 units. The Leather Shield, when upgraded through the normal path up to +14, has a stability on par with a +5 Heater or Grass Crest Shield or an unupgraded one at +5, which is pretty solid for a shield with fast parry and low weight if you ask me. PS: There is also a very fun and rarely talked about pair of spells in DS1 called Magic Shield and Strong Magic Shield which not only reduce the stamina cost for blocking but also increase the shields stats and have a very low INT requirement at 15. If you use the strong version found in the Duke's Archives it raises all the shields resistances to %100 and cuts the stamina cost of blocking by more than half, esentially turning any Small Shield into a Great Shield with a fraction of the weight and stat requirements for the duration of the buff while retaining the ability to parry. Pretty neat if you ask me.
Another really solid point of the bandit, battle axe has both vertical and horizontal attacks (and good move sets overall, not garbage ones). Might sound like nothing, but there are some scenarios where having both makes your life so much easier compared to being stuck with one or the other.
I like the idea, but aren't fully lore accurated, at least for how i see it. The thing is that each class has died in the dark souls maps already, to understand this is that every set of armor can be found in the game, for example the bandit armor can be found in the bridge in the valley of drakes. So according that, the wanderer can use the Falchion since all his set can be found within that sword in blighttown there and the thief can use the mail breaker since it's found in the Lower Undead Burg.
ghost blade drop reminding me of how every time i decide to play something that can't use a rare weapon drop, it drops fast. (most vivid memory i have rn is the elden ring magma dagger/shortsword dropping on the first magma lizard i had to kill when i was doing a str/int run)
I'm so glad the wanderer did that well. by far one of my favorite classes for the fashion souls alone. replace the hood and gloves with elite knight armor and it looks insane.
I kinda have a problem with disallowing the sorcerer to upgrade the soul arrow spell. The game clearly intends you to go from regular to great soul arrows. Limiting that kinda feels like forbidding upgrading your weapon to +15.
I think your rules (copies of the starting class items allowed) would have allowed you a second, off-hand, scimitar for the wanderer. So you could do the parry + riposte without menuing. And roleplay Drizzt 😎
My sleepy brain really thought you had said "scented pyromancy flame" and I thought maybe I had missed something in my gazillion playthroughs XD love the channel, love your work, thank you for a great bedtime story ❤❤❤
if you do do the DS2 starting class run, for the Deprived, you could probably farm Awestones for that ring you get from the Covenant of Champions to increase your punching power. That'd be allowed if you're going by the same ruleset as this game.
My first playthrough was a Wanderer, with a halberd, bow, and enough faith for lightning spear. Dex/Faith for the win! It's been the basis for every other blind playthrough that I've done.
You can actually use the Cloranthy ring for four kings AND still have the Favor&Protection ring afterwards, you just need to trade the Xanthous crown to Snuggly/Hawk girl
Would be cool to see a more extreme version of this where you can only level up the equipment and not the character stats, also you can't take off your armor (so you're stuck with the fat roll in some classes) but you can use any magic, pyro, etc, as long as the starting stats allow it
I love doing this type of run. Started doing them back several years ago and come back to do them again every now and then. My personal restriction is to only use the same class of equipment throughout and loosely following the class' initial stat spread proportions.
If you do this challenge for the other games, make it so classes can use the upgraded forms of the spells. (Soul Arrow could be evolved through all it's forms then maybe you could make it evolve to soul spear too. Heal could evolve to great heal.) In the case of Elden Ring, maybe just have the classes that start with some spell gradually evolve within that spell type too (Glintstone Pebble evolving into Comet, Heal evolving into Erdtree heal) Prisoner's may not have an evolution but it is already strong enough by default and they start with an estoc so they'll be fine.
I am pretty sure the scimitar can parry while being two handed as well, negating the need for weapon swapping. I am sure you have put that together, but something something engagement, so I guess I will comment anyway.
Note that AR is misleading for 2-handing your weapon - even after the 50% strength, your attack gets extra damage (can be seen on the Moonlight Greatsword since it has no strength scaling)
This was highly enjoyable, something slightly different to the normal challenge runs, but not too far it's unfamiliar. Looking forward to if you're continuing the series. DS2 will be wild I think
Spells are more of an ammo alternative than an actual main weapon. The way this challenge is set up it ends up almost completely ignoring spell usage outside of just cheesing enemies which is a shame. If you plan to do a similar challenge for the other games in the series (please do, these are super entertaining) maybe look into some basic spells to allow.
Realistically, if I were doing these runs (which I'm not going to, so take my comments with a grain of salt) - I think limiting yourself to the starting gear only kind of misses the point. The game is an RPG - the classes are roles. They don't "matter" because you can choose whatever role you want your character to take in the game, so I'd imagine playing as the starting classes as simply sticking to the thematic of that original role. A sorcerer that doesn't level attunement to cast a million spells doesn't feel like a proper sorcerer. A pyromancer who can't discover the ancient chaos techniques doesn't feel like a proper pyromancer (and not being able to ascend the flame, despite it in game having the same name, feels unfair when you're allowed to use the large and very large ember). A Bandit that can't use all of the axes at his disposal doesn't really how I envision them. The Cleric has one of the worst starting spells in the game, specifically because the Cleric is expected to expand their spell arsenal the soonest, with the only vendor available at the start of Firelink Shrine. The Deprived is meant to make you feel like you're starting from nothing and winning through sheer willpower. A Knight that switches from the broadsword to another regular sword is unequivocally still the knight. Similarly, limiting yourself to the wolf ring gave greater advantages to the classes with more melees focus than magic focus. That's like saying "who would win in a gunfight, a sniper, or a boxer who's never held a firearm before?". If nothing else, classes should have been allowed to use the ring that benefits their specialization. That - or rings should have been banned so the playing field remains equal. Good video all around, and this is just a nitpick. But I feel like if the goal ISN'T, to quote yourself, to make a challenge run, but instead test the effectiveness of the class archetypes, you shot all of them in the foot - some unfairly worse than others. I can see potentially not wanting to dilute the theming of the characters by making them too similar to a boss or NPC copycat build - so banning boss weapons and enemy drops, only allowing weapons and spells from vendors and items on the ground, would be a interesting middle ground to me.
The answer for the cloranthy dilemma is... DUN DUN DUN a green blossom, just eat the consumable and enjoy the benefits of the ring/shield without them.
fun fact the hand axe is ds1 is actually one of the highest dps weapons the game! its essentially a curved sword with much higher base stats and is capable of pushing the high hundreds in AR optimized completely.
i've seen runs like this before and honestly it always sells the spellcasting classes so short. I think a big thing you should look at is what the base int/faith/attunement is allowed to equip out the box: one of the advantages of Sorcerer is its base 15 int grants access to the following spells: all variants of Soul Arrow [except Great Heavy], magic and great magic weapon, magic and great magic shield, and a bunch of utility spells. faith gets a lot worse since at 14 faith all you get is heal and force. you have to invest much more into faith to get a lot of the good spells, and getting Rhea out of the catacombs is a lot harder than freeing Grigs or Logan. and then pyro... well with pyro 2 attunement slots is all you need, as SL1 runners have proven time and again. ==== overall, great runs, this was a fun video, these are just silly nitpicks i have that don't really matter.
@@aterriblespartan5051 yeah, but i'm saying that the format of these runs inherently robs a lot of these classes with tools they are set up by the game to get. TL:DR i think spells that classes meet the requirements to cast should be allowed as "Starting Equipment" even if they're acquired later because that's what those classes are capable of using the moment they exit Undead Asylum without any additional leveling. --- i get these are casual runs where you're keeping only the equipment you're using and leveling up normally, but if you're allowed to use titanite to upgrade your weapon or souls to upgrade your pyro flame, i don't see how that's different from buying Great Soul Arrow. I would personally look at starting faith, int, and attunement, and use those as benchmarks for what spells classes that start with Casting Catalysts are allowed to attune, even if their casting stat progresses to beyond the minimum starting casting stats. for example: at 15 starting int Sorcerer would get Great Magic Weapon, which on a 40/40 build would give it much better damage output and wouldn't even require buying more equipment since that spell is world loot. but the sorcerer wouldn't be able to attune Crystal Magic Weapon since that has 25 int requirement and that's a higher requirement than their starting INT. under these parameters the following classes would get the following tools based just on their starting stats: Cleric: Force, Great Heal Excerpt, Gravelord Sword Dance, Gravelord Greatsword Dance Sorcerer: Magic/Great Magic Weapon, Magic/Strong Magic Shield, Heavy Soul Arrow, Great Soul Arrow, all the stealth spells Pyro: 2 copies of any pyromancy, or 1 chaos pyromancy
It's a bit unfair to not allow a mage his magic. I guess if I would do this it would be more theme centric to the class, meaning I would be able to use what I think fits for the class. Like sorcerers would use magic. Pyromancers use pyromancy Bandits would be allowed to use great axes and hammers Hunter would be allowed the bows. Also I'll probably give restrictions for each class, like knights aren't allowed rolling for combat purposes. Mages aren't allowed to use heavy armor. Things like those.
@@pocketinfinity6733 I don't think that magic is better than a buff build or pyro. Especially without power within and considering prices. In the end of the day it doesn't matter. He is trying to rank classes. So it's only natural that strong classes should be in top spot. And they are at the bottom only thanks to horrible rule
iirc, you can get a second fap ring every playthrough by trading Jeremiah's headgear to Snuggly. So if you wanted you could break one on 4 Kings in favor (hah) of Chloranthy and replace it immediately afterward. I actually tried the thief version of this myself and got bored after a 10 minute Gaping Dragon kill. If it don't bleed, bring snacks because goddamn... I love the thief start but yeah. I'll also add to the voices saying Sorc really gets wrecked by these rules. Could've at least given them the Soul Arrow line of spells since that's really how they scale. But that's a nitpick and gets a bit muddy/arbitrary so the hell with it, really cool video and thanks for all the content!
This was a fun video and it would be neat to see you do this with the other Souls games too! Although personally, I would have allowed additional spells on sorcerer, cleric, and pyromancer. Sort of feels like kneecapping their whole gimmick, you're already locked to the worst casting tools anyway, and your other rule prevents upgrading to ascended pyro flame too. It would be like saying the hunter can only use the arrows they start with and you can't buy more. Also I wonder if thief would have ranked higher if you banned starting gifts. Having exclusive access to the master key would have likely jumped it a few places I'd reckon for its unique routing capabilities.
If you plan on doing this with DS2, don't worry about Deprived not having any weapons as the damage scaling to fists is actually really good and covenant of champions gives a ring that increases the damage of your fists.
I did the opposite and guessed the mask that would drop the least. AND I WAS EXACT ON THE MONEY. When you hear the Yoshikage Kira theme, ALWAYS expect hijinks.
I'd be really interested to know how you'd change these rankings if you allowed upgrades that made sense. So still no boss weapons, for example, but upgrading to any weapon in the same weapon type, for example, might make the thief way more viable. It's been ages since I played Dark Souls, so I barely remember most of the options you'd even have, but allowing specific weapon upgrades because they make sense for a class would be a fun change, especially since I wasn't sure at the start if you were doing this as a no-level up challenge.
I've wanted to do this for like years. Glad to see someone did. Great job. Although i don't know about allowing rings and consumables outside of starting gift and estus and well as copies of starting equipment. I would probably make that stricter for myself. Excluding required pickups such as abyss ring.
I think the spell restriction was probably a step too far, maybe a 'spell list' for each class would've been a good idea, like letting thief pick up the stealth spells, sorcerer pick up other soul arrows and maybe soul spear(crystal versions optional), cleric pick up non-offense miracles, and etc, so they still fit the right-out-of-the-box/starting-level theme but can still play into that theme rather than solely be limited by it. Could do the same for martial classes, but I think forcing the starting weapons there is interesting enough
Something i wouldve done differently, Instead of only having the starting equipment. I would only allow items that fall under the same description as the starting equipment. For say Knight being only longswords and shields.
The only starting class I actually have beaten the game with was the warrior class from earlier this year and because i have never practised Manus, he was the only boss i could not beat. But apart from that it wasn't the worst experience I've had finsihing the game at level 83. Not even reaching 40/40 (though the ninja flips were fun). Although I have beaten the game with a dagger and the havel set made that run way easier than it should had been.
10:43 Happy to see that made it into the video 😁
And my return 26:27 XD
The answer for DS2 Deprived run would be the Vanquisher seal. Obtained by giving Awestones to the Champion covernant. There is a trick to farm those, There is a inviter who respawns at the place where the small rat boss is. The ring gives you the ability to duel wield your fists and gives you +200atk
Naked and bringing these hands
I forgot to say that the inviter can be cheesed with gravity. LobosJr once did a run with this ring only.
I did this runs in ds2 aswell... For deprived i just decided to go with the Club. Farming the stones or consumable only sounds awefull for me
The most fun I had in DS2 was the beginning as a deprived, looking as every weapon as something to build to.
The least fun I had was not realizing what ADP did.
@@sirbill_greebi3811 The most fun i had was with The Boxer build
Two Caestus, Power Stance and beating the everloving snot out of heavily armored knights never felt so good.
Genuinely a good time and not much of a challenge run as i thought initially.
Turns out blunt damage resistance is pretty rare in enemies in DS2
13:49 is MAX STYLE.
*Parries
*Tosses sword to other hand behind back
*Stabs in chest
I wouldn't even be mad if did this to me in PVP
Gwyn: "Why are you smiling?"
Wanderer: "Because I know something you do not know. I am not left handed."
(this is a Princess Bride reference, and I REALLY hope it's not going unrecognised, or I'm getting really old.)
@@allgreatfictions I've seen that movie. Granted, it was only once.
Well, half-once.
How can it only be half-once?
Because I forgot the rest of this quote, that's how.
@@sirbill_greebi3811 I'm sorry but this quote is dead dead which is different from mostly dead mostly dead there's a chance but your quote is dead dead
Would you be mad if I parried and then reposted within 3 frames?
@@allgreatfictionsGOD it's been forever
For the cleric, I think something that myself and others screw up with is focusing completely on faith at first so we can throw lightning instead of being a good melee character who can shoot lightning.
Hell, you run a good chance of never finding the altar in DS1. I wanted to focus on miracles/paladin style on my first character and I missed the altar entirely and Rhea's questline, I don't think I got emit force either (if you answer sieg wrong or don't talk to him before he moves.) So I basically had heal, great heal, and great heal excerpt and divine weapons. The heal spells are invaluable for a new player, letting you save estus for boss fights.
That every single offensive miracle and most miracles period in the game can be missed and pretty easily really added to that early dark souls reputation. Though, back in 1.00, homeward bones were excruciatingly, painfully rare, so Homeward was a legit feature of miracles.
😅yeah, thing is, the dex stat is low, so the spear is veeeeery slow, however! The Mace is one of the best weapons, you can boost str to 27, and you’re pretty much golden, and after a while, boost faith in order to use sunlight/darkmoon blade.
Me coming out of my hole after kyle uploads his bi-yearly upload
Kidboy don't worry about how often another man posts content. Little clown
Bi-annual*
Coming out of your WHAT?
Does that mean twice a year or once every two years
@jaesjmes5498 bi- means twice, so bi-yearly/bi-annual is twice a year.
I mean, I guess it doesnt have to be said, but this ruleset really did the Sorcerer dirty. He really isnt meant to work with just his starting equipment, unlike martial classes which can utilize any weapons to their max effect
but the point was to see how well the classes would perform compared to each other in the same condition
@@Soapy-chan yes, but they're not meant to do so. Like, you could compare weapons on how much damage they deal in one attack, but obviously there's other factors in play
@@fpteamkvitka6223 there's a lot of things that are not meant to be certain ways but yet we do compare stuff or do challenge runs and so on.
@@fpteamkvitka6223none of them are meant to do so lol
personally I feel these rules are a bit unfair toward sorcerer. spells aren't really equipment, they are more like, arrows to your bow. and specially considering that in DS1 you can't upgrade catalysts, I'd arguee than more than that, getting better spells for your catalist is like getting upgrades for your weapon
will admit is a bit of a subjective point though, since different spells can do actually different stuff, as oposed to regular upgrading from a weapon where all it does is increase damage, is hard to reach a balance
just give sorcerer great soul arrow, and it immediately becomes busted
He did buy more soul arrow casts, as he was up to 120 by artorias.
@@connorburris4846 Yes, but because he started with the basic soul arrow he was allowed to buy more of the same because it was a duplicate. The issue, is that by the time Artorius rolled around each of those Soul arrows was only doing 12 damage.
Personally I think great and crystal soul arrow should be fair game, as they are basically the exact same spell except for increased damage
Kyle, if you plan to do DS2, don't forget about the vanquisher's seal, it absolutely melts bosses when using only fists, you could say its the only way to beat the game with Deprived
Kid you think you're teaching anything? It doesn't "melt" anything clown
I think that being able to level up weapons all the way but not allowing better spells/pyromancies/Miracles kind of artificially makes those classes worse. I think if your not gonna get better spells you should also stop weapon reinforcements at +5
This would have been a lot more interesting at starting level for all classes, and all items required to be used. With levels and unequipping it largely comes down to which class has the best weapon, rather than which one has the best overall loadout.
Agreed. Would have been nice to see some shieldplay over stripping for that vaunted fast roll.
That cut at 32:53 was just perfect.
I would disagree with the ascended pyromancy flame, here. Simply because it's not really an item change more of an item level up depicting the increased power that Qualana, can give you as one of the first pyromancers.
25:26 "this thing never ceases to disappoint"
I believe that ain't it, chief 🤣
One thing you may not know, is the spider shield gives very high poison resistance. It's possible to block multiple toxic darts in Blighttown and not become toxic
I wonder if an interesting stipulation to help keep the class' identities rather than have all of them turn into str/dex/quality builds would be to have them all preserve the initial order of highest to lowest stats e.g. the dark souls 2 knight would have to have Vigor be its highest stat, followed by strength, then adaptability, dexterity, etc. In the case of stats that start tied, you get to choose what order you put those tied stats in, since it's not super feasible to always level up all of such stats at once (cough, deprived, endcough).
If you did things this way, I feel like it's fair to let classes add new spells as well as new rings, since otherwise classes like sorcerer are left with a choice between shitty split scaling on top of a shitty low damage weapon, or an uninfused dagger when they can't just pump dex and all their points in int are wasted, on top of the fact that it would let spellcaster classes actually do something with the attunement they're forced to level. Of course, for Dark Souls 2 this matters less as infusions are at their best, and I'm not necessarily suggesting you change the nature of these runs part way through the series, it's more just that this is an idea inspired by your video.
The knight has special place in my heart sense it's the class i started with in my first playthrough and it kinda carried me through some bosses and places like the capra demon and the sewers.
Great video btw and ithink the most dropped mask is the mother this thing huntes me to this day
8:20 Bofuri Vibes. Eating an Undead Dragon. Poison for Seasoning. Somehow I'm not making that up.
Can we appreciate the cut from parrying Gwyn on, cleric to wander at 32:51
I saw that too
I’m sorry but why isn’t the Transition at 32:55 getting more love?
Because it was so clean I didn't even notice it.. holy shit.
Just finishing the intro, based on the rules laid out, I'm going to predict that the sorcerer ended up as the most challenging class due to the limited number of spells that it can use, and being locked into only having the basic Soul Arrow.
28:20 Huh, the AOE2 music actually fits really well for this.
28:50 and it looks like my prediction was right. Wasn't expecting the Thief to be here too though.
there's this guy out there called TrevTheDev that has been doing videos about mathematically optimized damage in Dark Souls and, in a lot of the run he done with the mathematically optimized damaged he used the Hand Axe from the Pyromancer and I was surprised on how good that weapon is, it's definitely a slept on weapon that can do a lot of damage, it's nearly like some secret curved sword.
anyways, as someone that always picks the Wanderer as my starting class (since I always build DEX and maybe INT sometimes, which is basically almost DEX in this game if you wanna have good casting speed) excellent video! I think the same concept would be interesting in Elden Ring (predicting the Thief and the Knife will still suck lol)
The Bandit in Elden Ring would actually probably be the second best other than the samurai, because the starting weapon does bleed damage and it's a dex arcane stat load out.
@@robertwye9463Truthfully Prophet is better for dex arc, no int, passable str to wield, and you can boost faith either by some small levels, or tear +godrick rune/two finger talisman, as 31 faith is more than enough for the communion seal, this allows you to be both a caster with fast casting speed thanks to dex, or melee if the situation requires it
In terms of its r1 attacks the hand axe is literally a curved sword, with its r2's being regular axe r1's
The best part of the hand axe is something that only works in pvp - kick to r1 is a true combo(like with katanas). You have the infinite stunlock power of a curved sword with the kick combo starter of a katana
I recently finished the game with only Hunter´s equipment it was a breeze. I think you are underestimating the bow´s power at +15. You can just lure most enemies, cheese Manus, cheese Sif... Cheese ingward, kill the hydras easy mode... using a bow makes dark souls so, so easy.
favorite stream series i've seen so far and i'm glad i was able to make it to a few of these
Small correction here: The Leather Shield from the wanderer has the 2nd best defenses of any small shield, only surpased by the Effigy Shiled, which has the highest lightning resistance in the game but weighs 3 units. The Leather Shield, when upgraded through the normal path up to +14, has a stability on par with a +5 Heater or Grass Crest Shield or an unupgraded one at +5, which is pretty solid for a shield with fast parry and low weight if you ask me.
PS: There is also a very fun and rarely talked about pair of spells in DS1 called Magic Shield and Strong Magic Shield which not only reduce the stamina cost for blocking but also increase the shields stats and have a very low INT requirement at 15. If you use the strong version found in the Duke's Archives it raises all the shields resistances to %100 and cuts the stamina cost of blocking by more than half, esentially turning any Small Shield into a Great Shield with a fraction of the weight and stat requirements for the duration of the buff while retaining the ability to parry. Pretty neat if you ask me.
Another really solid point of the bandit, battle axe has both vertical and horizontal attacks (and good move sets overall, not garbage ones). Might sound like nothing, but there are some scenarios where having both makes your life so much easier compared to being stuck with one or the other.
Great video! And thank you for keeping the video under an hour 😅
I look forward to checking out the streams some day.
I like the idea, but aren't fully lore accurated, at least for how i see it. The thing is that each class has died in the dark souls maps already, to understand this is that every set of armor can be found in the game, for example the bandit armor can be found in the bridge in the valley of drakes. So according that, the wanderer can use the Falchion since all his set can be found within that sword in blighttown there and the thief can use the mail breaker since it's found in the Lower Undead Burg.
and the sorcerer should be able to do every sorcery.
Man these were so much fun to catch live! Hope I get to catch the other class streams
ghost blade drop reminding me of how every time i decide to play something that can't use a rare weapon drop, it drops fast. (most vivid memory i have rn is the elden ring magma dagger/shortsword dropping on the first magma lizard i had to kill when i was doing a str/int run)
I'm so glad the wanderer did that well. by far one of my favorite classes for the fashion souls alone. replace the hood and gloves with elite knight armor and it looks insane.
I kinda have a problem with disallowing the sorcerer to upgrade the soul arrow spell. The game clearly intends you to go from regular to great soul arrows. Limiting that kinda feels like forbidding upgrading your weapon to +15.
I heard "Salutations exiles" and got excited, not what I expected but pretty fun video to watch. Thanks!
I think your rules (copies of the starting class items allowed) would have allowed you a second, off-hand, scimitar for the wanderer. So you could do the parry + riposte without menuing. And roleplay Drizzt 😎
Lmao that wanderer swapparry on final boss :D
Mask of the father, maybe?
32:48
Damn that transition is smooth
NEW KYLE UPLOAD 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 (it will take 7 years before a new one)
Great Job Kyle, well done on this video after all those streams!
I was fortunate to catch a few streams here and there while I was at work!
Thank you for the great content, GW.
My sleepy brain really thought you had said "scented pyromancy flame" and I thought maybe I had missed something in my gazillion playthroughs XD love the channel, love your work, thank you for a great bedtime story ❤❤❤
I love starting a new game in the soulsbourne game and experimenting with the classes. Please make a series out of this🙏🏻
I really don't agree with the "no new spells" rule. You're not really experiencing the class.
when did we ask?
@@repghost9481 I did
I think it balances out the classes you don’t get access to other end game weapons in other classes so why would
you have access to end game spells
so sorry that someone expresses their opinion in a discussion forum. truly sorry that they disgraced your eyes like that.
Because you cannot enhance staffs unlike melee weapons @@thewatcher1249
Is Press becoming "He who shall not be named"? Hahaha
if you do do the DS2 starting class run, for the Deprived, you could probably farm Awestones for that ring you get from the Covenant of Champions to increase your punching power. That'd be allowed if you're going by the same ruleset as this game.
My first playthrough was a Wanderer, with a halberd, bow, and enough faith for lightning spear. Dex/Faith for the win! It's been the basis for every other blind playthrough that I've done.
You can actually use the Cloranthy ring for four kings AND still have the Favor&Protection ring afterwards, you just need to trade the Xanthous crown to Snuggly/Hawk girl
This was a wonderful video. Can't wait to see the streams and videos to follow. Also bonus kitty footage was much appreciated.
Would be cool to see a more extreme version of this where you can only level up the equipment and not the character stats,
also you can't take off your armor (so you're stuck with the fat roll in some classes) but you can use any magic, pyro, etc, as long as the starting stats allow it
Yeah that wolf ring is crazy amazing. Just completed a melee only run and it just stayed on.
I love doing this type of run. Started doing them back several years ago and come back to do them again every now and then. My personal restriction is to only use the same class of equipment throughout and loosely following the class' initial stat spread proportions.
23:24 I mean, with enough patience deprived could get Vanquishers seal. (Might take a bit tho) but the defences.. yikes.
What a fantastic content creator is Kyle ❤
If you do this challenge for the other games, make it so classes can use the upgraded forms of the spells. (Soul Arrow could be evolved through all it's forms then maybe you could make it evolve to soul spear too. Heal could evolve to great heal.)
In the case of Elden Ring, maybe just have the classes that start with some spell gradually evolve within that spell type too (Glintstone Pebble evolving into Comet, Heal evolving into Erdtree heal)
Prisoner's may not have an evolution but it is already strong enough by default and they start with an estoc so they'll be fine.
I am pretty sure the scimitar can parry while being two handed as well, negating the need for weapon swapping.
I am sure you have put that together, but something something engagement, so I guess I will comment anyway.
Note that AR is misleading for 2-handing your weapon - even after the 50% strength, your attack gets extra damage (can be seen on the Moonlight Greatsword since it has no strength scaling)
OML I NEED THESE TYPE OF VIDEO FOR ALL OF THE SOULSBORN GAMES!!!
I CANT WAIT FOR THE OTHER SOULS CLASS VIDEOS, I LOVED THIS
This was highly enjoyable, something slightly different to the normal challenge runs, but not too far it's unfamiliar.
Looking forward to if you're continuing the series. DS2 will be wild I think
I cant describe it, but hearing the main town theme from The Last Story made my jaw drop. I havent thought about that game in years and it was so good
It's the little things in life. Happy to see your content mate.
Great vid, cant wait for the other starting class runs.
Spells are more of an ammo alternative than an actual main weapon. The way this challenge is set up it ends up almost completely ignoring spell usage outside of just cheesing enemies which is a shame. If you plan to do a similar challenge for the other games in the series (please do, these are super entertaining) maybe look into some basic spells to allow.
I bet on the Mask of the Mother... damn, no bragging rights for me
Damn the Transition at 32:55 was smooth!
I ALWAYS get Mask of the Child, so I guessed that. You got really good luck there lol
Realistically, if I were doing these runs (which I'm not going to, so take my comments with a grain of salt) - I think limiting yourself to the starting gear only kind of misses the point. The game is an RPG - the classes are roles. They don't "matter" because you can choose whatever role you want your character to take in the game, so I'd imagine playing as the starting classes as simply sticking to the thematic of that original role. A sorcerer that doesn't level attunement to cast a million spells doesn't feel like a proper sorcerer. A pyromancer who can't discover the ancient chaos techniques doesn't feel like a proper pyromancer (and not being able to ascend the flame, despite it in game having the same name, feels unfair when you're allowed to use the large and very large ember). A Bandit that can't use all of the axes at his disposal doesn't really how I envision them. The Cleric has one of the worst starting spells in the game, specifically because the Cleric is expected to expand their spell arsenal the soonest, with the only vendor available at the start of Firelink Shrine. The Deprived is meant to make you feel like you're starting from nothing and winning through sheer willpower. A Knight that switches from the broadsword to another regular sword is unequivocally still the knight. Similarly, limiting yourself to the wolf ring gave greater advantages to the classes with more melees focus than magic focus. That's like saying "who would win in a gunfight, a sniper, or a boxer who's never held a firearm before?". If nothing else, classes should have been allowed to use the ring that benefits their specialization. That - or rings should have been banned so the playing field remains equal.
Good video all around, and this is just a nitpick. But I feel like if the goal ISN'T, to quote yourself, to make a challenge run, but instead test the effectiveness of the class archetypes, you shot all of them in the foot - some unfairly worse than others. I can see potentially not wanting to dilute the theming of the characters by making them too similar to a boss or NPC copycat build - so banning boss weapons and enemy drops, only allowing weapons and spells from vendors and items on the ground, would be a interesting middle ground to me.
I think an extremely important mention for the AR discussion is motion values. Its what makes the op weapons op
The answer for the cloranthy dilemma is... DUN DUN DUN a green blossom, just eat the consumable and enjoy the benefits of the ring/shield without them.
We all know that we Dark Souls players will never use items. What if we need them for after beating the game?
@@Spectrik That's a joke, but new game+ does exist.
@connorburris4846 I know lol it's just that I'm also the type of player who holds onto stuff "just in case" and never actually uses it
Nahhh, use power within+ lingering ring, stamina recovery boost, alongside power
@@Spectrikgreen blossoms aren't even hard to get after you've rung the 2 bells tho
They're annoying to grind for but not hard to get
I guessed Mask of Father because legend never dies. Lucky me.
I knew sorcerer was gonna be trash while you were explaining the challenge
fun fact the hand axe is ds1 is actually one of the highest dps weapons the game! its essentially a curved sword with much higher base stats and is capable of pushing the high hundreds in AR optimized completely.
i've seen runs like this before and honestly it always sells the spellcasting classes so short. I think a big thing you should look at is what the base int/faith/attunement is allowed to equip out the box: one of the advantages of Sorcerer is its base 15 int grants access to the following spells: all variants of Soul Arrow [except Great Heavy], magic and great magic weapon, magic and great magic shield, and a bunch of utility spells.
faith gets a lot worse since at 14 faith all you get is heal and force. you have to invest much more into faith to get a lot of the good spells, and getting Rhea out of the catacombs is a lot harder than freeing Grigs or Logan.
and then pyro... well with pyro 2 attunement slots is all you need, as SL1 runners have proven time and again.
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overall, great runs, this was a fun video, these are just silly nitpicks i have that don't really matter.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he restrict himself to exactly what each class starts with?
@@aterriblespartan5051 yeah, but i'm saying that the format of these runs inherently robs a lot of these classes with tools they are set up by the game to get.
TL:DR i think spells that classes meet the requirements to cast should be allowed as "Starting Equipment" even if they're acquired later because that's what those classes are capable of using the moment they exit Undead Asylum without any additional leveling.
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i get these are casual runs where you're keeping only the equipment you're using and leveling up normally, but if you're allowed to use titanite to upgrade your weapon or souls to upgrade your pyro flame, i don't see how that's different from buying Great Soul Arrow. I would personally look at starting faith, int, and attunement, and use those as benchmarks for what spells classes that start with Casting Catalysts are allowed to attune, even if their casting stat progresses to beyond the minimum starting casting stats.
for example: at 15 starting int Sorcerer would get Great Magic Weapon, which on a 40/40 build would give it much better damage output and wouldn't even require buying more equipment since that spell is world loot. but the sorcerer wouldn't be able to attune Crystal Magic Weapon since that has 25 int requirement and that's a higher requirement than their starting INT.
under these parameters the following classes would get the following tools based just on their starting stats:
Cleric: Force, Great Heal Excerpt, Gravelord Sword Dance, Gravelord Greatsword Dance
Sorcerer: Magic/Great Magic Weapon, Magic/Strong Magic Shield, Heavy Soul Arrow, Great Soul Arrow, all the stealth spells
Pyro: 2 copies of any pyromancy, or 1 chaos pyromancy
Dang~, no wonder this video took a while. Quite the marathon, well done!
I subbed to ya because of this video. Never knew cleric was such a demon of melee
for monk, i always rush 25 faith then go 50 strength for sanctus and paladin leeroys hammer
It's a bit unfair to not allow a mage his magic.
I guess if I would do this it would be more theme centric to the class, meaning I would be able to use what I think fits for the class.
Like sorcerers would use magic.
Pyromancers use pyromancy
Bandits would be allowed to use great axes and hammers
Hunter would be allowed the bows.
Also I'll probably give restrictions for each class, like knights aren't allowed rolling for combat purposes.
Mages aren't allowed to use heavy armor.
Things like those.
Who’s here from the backlogs
I dunno... me
Who knows.
'Let's set the rules which degrade all magic builds to a melee builds with wasted stats' - good start
thats how it goes when doing class specific runs, magic is stupid without the restrictions
@@pocketinfinity6733 I don't think that magic is better than a buff build or pyro. Especially without power within and considering prices.
In the end of the day it doesn't matter. He is trying to rank classes. So it's only natural that strong classes should be in top spot. And they are at the bottom only thanks to horrible rule
He did spell only runs. Look at those if you want to see magic. Weird thing to complain about
iirc, you can get a second fap ring every playthrough by trading Jeremiah's headgear to Snuggly. So if you wanted you could break one on 4 Kings in favor (hah) of Chloranthy and replace it immediately afterward.
I actually tried the thief version of this myself and got bored after a 10 minute Gaping Dragon kill. If it don't bleed, bring snacks because goddamn... I love the thief start but yeah.
I'll also add to the voices saying Sorc really gets wrecked by these rules. Could've at least given them the Soul Arrow line of spells since that's really how they scale. But that's a nitpick and gets a bit muddy/arbitrary so the hell with it, really cool video and thanks for all the content!
This was really cool! I’ve never used a magic class in Dark Souls 1 but that’s what I want to try next.
This was a fun video and it would be neat to see you do this with the other Souls games too! Although personally, I would have allowed additional spells on sorcerer, cleric, and pyromancer. Sort of feels like kneecapping their whole gimmick, you're already locked to the worst casting tools anyway, and your other rule prevents upgrading to ascended pyro flame too. It would be like saying the hunter can only use the arrows they start with and you can't buy more. Also I wonder if thief would have ranked higher if you banned starting gifts. Having exclusive access to the master key would have likely jumped it a few places I'd reckon for its unique routing capabilities.
Thank you for the great time. Watch all the videos and seen 3 live. Always a great time, and I didn’t see anything with Pinwheel.
Iron dagger is by far my favorite. Crystal weapon goes crazy with it
Can we all respect how much dedication these challenges take it's insane!
I actually started this challenge myself a couple weeks ago, its very difficult, but a lot of fun!
I knew Wanderer would be high, but I'm surprised to see Cleric there too
If you plan on doing this with DS2, don't worry about Deprived not having any weapons as the damage scaling to fists is actually really good and covenant of champions gives a ring that increases the damage of your fists.
I did the opposite and guessed the mask that would drop the least.
AND I WAS EXACT ON THE MONEY.
When you hear the Yoshikage Kira theme, ALWAYS expect hijinks.
I feel like I’m watching a “How it’s made” episode when I watch these
I'd be really interested to know how you'd change these rankings if you allowed upgrades that made sense. So still no boss weapons, for example, but upgrading to any weapon in the same weapon type, for example, might make the thief way more viable. It's been ages since I played Dark Souls, so I barely remember most of the options you'd even have, but allowing specific weapon upgrades because they make sense for a class would be a fun change, especially since I wasn't sure at the start if you were doing this as a no-level up challenge.
Against the spirit of the idea to not use upgraded sorcereries and co.
That doesn't make any sense since its class
23:05 You NEED to do this challenge in DS2 😁
Awesome Runs and Summary, well done :)
I've wanted to do this for like years. Glad to see someone did. Great job. Although i don't know about allowing rings and consumables outside of starting gift and estus and well as copies of starting equipment. I would probably make that stricter for myself. Excluding required pickups such as abyss ring.
I think the spell restriction was probably a step too far, maybe a 'spell list' for each class would've been a good idea, like letting thief pick up the stealth spells, sorcerer pick up other soul arrows and maybe soul spear(crystal versions optional), cleric pick up non-offense miracles, and etc, so they still fit the right-out-of-the-box/starting-level theme but can still play into that theme rather than solely be limited by it. Could do the same for martial classes, but I think forcing the starting weapons there is interesting enough
always nice to see a new upload from ya, you should do somethin on lies of p sometime
Something i wouldve done differently, Instead of only having the starting equipment. I would only allow items that fall under the same description as the starting equipment. For say Knight being only longswords and shields.
14:11 That was rude.
Theif my beloved.
(Live/Scripted mix of commentary was excellent.)
The only starting class I actually have beaten the game with was the warrior class from earlier this year and because i have never practised Manus, he was the only boss i could not beat. But apart from that it wasn't the worst experience I've had finsihing the game at level 83. Not even reaching 40/40 (though the ninja flips were fun). Although I have beaten the game with a dagger and the havel set made that run way easier than it should had been.
I don't know if it's because It's been a while since I watched a video of yours, but that mic sounds so good