Don’t. Read. The. Comments. I guess people will want to know what this video is about. Well, it’s about Tiffany Tumbles. Okay fine. You wouldn’t be wrong if you said it’s about the politics of self-loathing, power dynamics within LGBTQ communities, how bigotry becomes internalized and how internalized bigotry becomes the alibi of external bigotry, There, I ruined it for you. Also, I feel that I should say that now is a particularly difficult time to be trans and a lot of us are feeling it. If you need help, contact these orgs: Trans Lifeline USA: (877) 565-8860 Canada: (877) 330-6366 The Trevor Project (LGBTQ*) USA: (866) 488-7386
Was anyone else terrified when Tiffany was walking home alone. I mean I was legit concerned for her safety and I thought this video was going a very dark place.
And yet there is such a thing as people who are x and are also assholes... How do we talk about them without being misinterpreted as critics of the whole of x?
@@Asehpe Then target their asshole tendency instead of their x-ness. And avoid using racially charged and or slurs targeted at groups. A jerk is a jerk no matter who or what they identify as.
I was a total bigot towards trans rights until I found Contrapoints. She was winning me over with her fun left videos, then I watched this episode and cried so hard when Tiffany is crying because I realized how completely inhumane I was about trans people. Over the next couple days I kept thinking of that scene, it would bring me to tears, and now I've entirely changed my opinions about trans. This channel really changed my life for the better. Straight white cis male btw
Hey Andy, i just started watching her and although i had a liberal view i didn't understand anything about the struggles of trans people. Im so glad i understand a bit better now, its important, she is great at what she does.
CJ Parks, I get what she was doing, but it made me wonder if I just got a peek of what a woman suffering from gender dysphoria feels like in a drunken moment of clarity.
Even as a cis person i can understand her at least on some level. I obviously don't understand entirely gender dysphoria, since i'm cis, but i seriously know what it feels like to be so disgusted with your own self and to fixate on that so much that it breaks you
It reminds me of my uni friend saying "sometimes then I see myself without make up, I still see a man". I didn't know what to do with it. I wonder how is she now
that scene at the end with tiffany crying killed my heart. made me realize i have no idea the kind of internal struggles trans people have to go through. no one should be made to think their existence or body is disgusting. self acceptance is hard enough as a cis person, can't even imagine how much more amplified that is for a trans person. so many extra hurdles.
I know what you mean. You just want to take the hurt away. Then you think about things you may have said or thought when you were younger and think on the hurt you caused. Not just to trans people. And when I say you, I mean me.
@@thewarmestmachine1211 I honestly think she does suffer. And the way she acts is a defensive mechanism. It doesn't excuse the damage she does but maybe if she hadn't suffered she may not be producing the horrible content that she does.
Yea it really touched me. Im bi and always hid it and felt "wrong" when I was with guys because society or something. I though my internal struggle was hard, not that its a competition or anything. But I can hide in plain sight, I can bring a girl home and have her meet my parents, I can talk about girls I have dated and not tell anyone about my same sex relationships. But if I was gay I cant imagine how difficult it would be just because you love someone of the same gender and not being able to hide. And for trans people they cant hide, especially in the early years of transitioning. Every day judged, not being man enough or woman enough, everyone criticizing them for being born in the wrong body and trying to find a skin they feel natural in. Every day must be a struggle, never being able to hide. The rest of the LGBT+ community is so brave to me, they have to face real persecution and judgement from other people, and I can just hide in the crowd and let people assume Im straight.
i'm a 21 year old straight white male, and I always thought i was pretty open minded about everything including the trans community but ever since i found your channel you've shown me that i was still holding on to some pretty backwards logic when it came to specific parts of the trans community, and i just want to thank you for this fucking beautiful video, i genuinely feel i've grown as a person and educated myself so much more after watching your videos, thank you so much
Another superb one, congrats! The acting in this is solid too! Jackie's concern about who's what kind of gay with what sort of penis seems like quite a reductionist way to talk about attraction? Like, it surely wouldn't be controversial to say that a beauty mark or a certain hair colour on one person isn't as attractive to an individual viewer as on someone else, so why not a penis? Like just because someone has a crush on one blonde person doesn't mean they're automatically 5% more attracted to all other blonde people or whatever, because people aren't attracted to abstracted features but to a whole person - their personality, their vibe, their body, accent, the sweet things she says on Twitter, the fact that she's really clever, the RUclips content she makes... Wait what was I saying?
Bash Clopton I think some of that is actually Natalie's inner monologue as well. I remember her posting some stuff on twitter about her insecurities regarding getting plastic surgery amoung other things. Kinda makes some of that part even harder to watch (In a good way mind you).
Yes, that made the two breakdown scenes particularly hard to watch; it was almost as if Natalie had waited until she was feeling really crap and vulnerable and then turned on the camera. Of course it all chimed very deeply with my own anxiety and self loathing and I wanted to reach through the screen and cuddle her...except that in reality I'm quite poor at that sort of thing...
Kirt Kirt I can tell you right now that most, if not almost all trans people have had the moment that Tiffany has in this video. Adria has had it. Natalie has had it. I've had it, though I never considered getting a nose job. I don't think there's a plastic surgery that could make me pass, but I've many times felt like a freak of science who should be ashamed of what I've done with my body, with my life. And that if I'm going to impose upon the world by continuing my obscene existence, the least I can do would be to make it easier for people to stomach by meeting society's expectations for my gender better. Cut my hair, stop painting my nails, start talking about sportsball and wearing awful boring clothes and squashing my emotions. The difference between Tiffany and Adria is not whether they feel that shame, guilt, and pressure, but how they respond to it- do you try to appease the transphobic voice in your head, or do you fight against it?
Kirt Kirt the view that "other trans people are invalid including me" can be found in this very comments section, as well as in Blaire White's body of work. Natalie actually had a stream conversation with her a while back where this view was expressed.
I feel like so many minorities can relate to this on some level. As a black person, I always wanted to fit in with my white peers. Thoughts like "Don't be ghetto, loud, or speak in an accent" always ran through my head. As a gay guy, thoughts like "Don't be too feminine, don't draw too much attention to yourself" constantly ran through my head too. From a young age, I cemented these thoughts into myself just to fit in and not be judged.
Not a minority, but I feel like as a girl, that's also a thing. I know many girls who were like me when I was 13 - I had learned that women are bad, that feminine means weak, embarrassing, catty, back-stabbing. I didn't want to be a girl, even though I wasn't trans. I was kinda tomboyish and was proud to have male friends bc "female friends are too much drama for me", shit like that. Ya know, the typical "not like other girls" phase, one that most girls have at some point, because we're taught that being like a girl is bad.
@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb Yes! There's always that one phase girls go through where they're like "I hate pink" and say how they hate girly things. It's so sad how girls are taught to hate their femininity sometimes and taught that their not as strong as men among other things.
@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb Yes! This! I remember rejecting Sailor Moon because it's a girrrrrrrrrrrrrl show and I don't like girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl stuff. It took a long time (early 20s?) for me to realize that women could be feminine AND strong...and that strength could be something more than physically powerful.
@@youtubearchive3668 bruh im 100% human and I'm all about the mouthfeel of girldick. maybe the reason no one commented is because nothing more needs to be said
Can’t count how many times my cishet classmates tell me “see, I like you because you’re not an ANNOYING trans/gay person. You’re not *like them* “ this complex of being accepted by cis people by preventing them from growing in understanding, because it’ll make us look like “crazy sjws”, is dangerous and I’m glad I didn’t fall for it. Little do my peers know I’m the very thing they swore to destroy
Aren't you marginalizing/generalizing an (EXTREMELY) large group of people yourself with your word choice? You're pulling the "all cis people don't understand" card when you yourself feel generalized and stereotyped. This is why your cis friends are anti-SJW; there is a very apparent contradiction.
I keep forgetting that all these characters are edited together post-script. Like, my dumbass lizard brain keeps thinking there are actually three Natalie Wynn’s together in one room.
its just so emotionally moving and it makes you feel glad that you werent the only one that had those thoughts. i can think of so many times where i just wanted to be anything but a man, and now i'm making steps to make that happen, and contra was a big part of making that happen and assuring me that this can be done, and that there is a right and wrong way, and giving me a realistic outlook on what the community looks like, our strengths and weaknesses, and where i fit into it all
@@ashr6982 Another trans woman who is less than a year into her transition and yeah that hit really close to home too, especially after dealing with a rather transphobic member of my family who still claims to "love and support" me. It's a rough struggle girl
damn though ,that bit where Tiffany goes, "I had just come out as trans, I was putting myself out there online, and like that, the trans community dropped me like a piece of trash. And I had no support, nothing -- absolutely alone...one wrong move and you're dead to them." I realize at the time this was sort of a socratic, devil's advocate thing, but it so closely mirrors what Natalie is going through.
@Jane The Creator i'd say a big portion of online activism, no matter what cause, is just that. so many people are more concerned about "fighting against" instead of "progress toward". the former is very much like what you describe: fight against a common enemy, and if they aren't in their radar, then make one. antagonise and demonise. "cancel" and tear down. the subject might be similar or even exactly the same as progressing toward, but imo, trying to progress include opening and having conversations, explain the issue and why certain behaviour/thoughts might be harmful. the focus is to educate and enlighten, finding and creating allies so they too can spread the awareness instead of making everyone that disagree even slightly, or worse: genuinely ignorant and clueless, as the enemies. you still see a lot of people that focus on progressing, conversing, and educating. but it's also not uncommon to see them, too, casted aside as "traitors" and belittled for not joining the mob.
yes, because it's a well written character, not just plain evil, villainified and stupid, but with legitimate reasons to think and behave the way she does. I really admire Natalie's ability to empathize with these archetypes in order to better understand where they come from, instead of dismissing whatever they say just because she doesn't agree with them, or doesn't share the same experiences as them (non-binary people). we should all thrive to understand each other instead of going at each other's throat for not having the same position. if we tried to understand each other, we could easily come to an agreement. I can see Natalie had a lot of fun writing and playing that character. I am nothing like Tiffany Tumbles, but I almost cried during her breakdown because I could understand how she felt.
@@Deathdrummer195 You mean you are only into people when you see them naked? Because I am usually into people before I take a look up their pants. On the other hand I am totally fine with your fetish, I hope other people are too.
@@leahsander5490 if you're referring to the fact that Greek women couldn't vote. That they weren't allowed in the symposium. That they weren't allowed adult education in Athens? What about that women in ancient Greece were literally bought and sold as property? Seems pretty sexist and misogynistic to me. Did you even read Socrates or Plato? The way they talk about women is a direct reflection of Greek society at the time
@@dunnejos8423 1. Most men also couldn't vote. 2. Most men didn't get an education either. 3. Men were also bought and sold as property. Seems like a pretty aristocratic, non-egalitarian society to me. Also, hate was the word that poked me. Hate is active and intense. If every man before the 1960s HATED women, we as a species would not exist right now.
@@leahsander5490 careful, you're minimising their lived experience and worldview with your nuance. Continue and you'll be labelled an enemy, doxxed and have your life ruined for resisting ridiculous restrospective application of contemporary normative standards. Welcome to the far right Robert... we will love and nurture you...
I love how Tiffany Tumbles is a clear parody of Blair White. I mean it was pretty subtle for most of the video, but that pose with the MAGA hat, the peace sign, and the wink was quite on the nose.
I feel like this portrays Blaire so well. She wants so badly to seem normal and be accepted by cis people and she tries so hard to be "different than the other trans people" and "one of the good ones" to conservatives
xmindxblownx 69 I kind of felt bad for the GameStop tran. She's lived through a time where, in a lot of ways, things were more difficult for trans people. She's probably a very repressed person who's got a lot of built up rage and emotion from a lifetime of external and internal shame. The way she reacted was not acceptable, but I can see why she reacted that way and it makes me sad. It's a perfect example of what happens when you deal with a life of unacceptance, it's a result of systematic bigotry towards trans people, and a window into the affects of the cruel treatment a majority of society has put towards the trans community for centuries. She could've handled the situation better, but we don't know exactly what she's been through and that could've been the straw that broke the camel's back. I just hope she's getting the help and support she needs.
@@phoebeblaze3668 like i'm in no way transphobic or anything but like my only argument for that gamestop person is just like "come on" like i don't want to say that transgender people necessarily have to pass as the other gender but in this case just like... come on
I'm not trans, I'm not gay, but i understand self-loathing and the desire to adapt well to society, and be unsuccessful in adapting well to society. This video really moved me.
"Anything but this" had me in tears. I know as a cis female I'll never fully grasp what trans people go through, but I have struggled with ED all my life and that line is something I've said to myself before. 🖤🖤🖤
I'm trans and I have an eating disorder and honestly it's EXTREMELY similar imo (or my eating disorder is just based in that and most people with EDs don't have the meatsuit dysphoria, what do I know). It wouldn't offend me at all to say it's a related condition.
I'm guilty of being a bit of a trans man version of Tiffany Tumbles (minus the conservatism) over the past couple of months out of fear and shame and the thought that if I'm "rational" and "self aware" and "not like them" that I might be respected. I've been realizing just how wrong I was and how I should be uplifting and standing with my trans brothers and sisters instead of trying to silently judge who's trans enough.
so u have realized the dilemna.......... trans men just go full transmed conservative a lot and its rough. they just project their internalized hatred and fear on young trans kids and call us "aidens" like buddy 1. thas a whole name and 2. u r one of us
Lmao, as a trans guy who's dated other trans guys before I feel that. Everyone's like .. wait so you're... gay men.... but if you *you know* is it lesbian then?? Like, no Karen.
That drunken emotional breakdown scene was really hard to watch. A while back, my girlfriend had that mindset stretched out for over a year. It would come in waves. Sometimes she was okay and we could socialize outside. Other times, she couldn't get out of bed and would say the exact same thing Tiffany was saying. I couldn't do anything to help her other than hug her until she stopped crying. Now she's moved past the severe wave of self hate, unfortunately, now I occasionally get the transman version of this...
16:41 This scene with her crying is absolutely heartbreaking. I know your main method of argument/persuasion involves a lot of humor and logic but I really appreciate the time you took to appeal to raw pathos. Sometimes straightforward empathy is incredibly convincing to people who lack an understanding. It's a really sad and beautiful scene that speaks to something more universally human and that has to be applauded.
Tiffany's breakdown scene brings back nightmares of over thirty years ago. When, after eight hours struggling to cope as a TS in an ultra conservative multi national, I would arrive back to my flat and cry. When your best (and only) friend was a bottle, and thoughts of the battles to be fought all over again tomorrow became overwhelming. Tiff's anguished , "I wish I was a woman", tore my heart out. It was so devastating to realise you had given it your best shot, and it would never be quite as good as the "real thing". Such a great example of art imitating life.
@@jeanette5457 I'm going to be honest i was kind of expecting the worst when I read the comment,it's fairly relieving to see that you responded,have a great day!
I've been partially raised by my aunt who's a tran woman. It was in the 80's, the esthetic chirirgie wasn't like today and she spent so much money on silly me... She was spending so much time on make up, complaining, crying sometimes, trying to fix whatever she was seeing in that godam mirror... And i thought she was just wonderful and back in my room i was wearing her shoos and her skirt (it was a dress for me) only because i wanted to be just like her when i grow up. I wish she saw her like i saw her...
my favorite moment is when Adria defends Tiffany bc she "has to work really hard to be seen as female". As a girl's girl, i totally relate to that. I will defend my fellow femmes to the end even if they had been so nasty towards me
Kind of ironic and emotionally devastating how much Tiffany Tumbles was correct about how people turn on you. Sorry again, the canceling video hit hard.
exactly what I was thinking- this hits very different after her recent video. It's kind of devastating for the left and everything we are standing for, and it just gives the extreme right ammunition to continue ridiculing "snowflakes" and "anti-free speech" warriors :(
it demonstrates almost perfectly, though, how well thought out and analytical these videos really are. These fictional debates aren't just straw man arguments she is taking down. Natalie clearly reads as much as possible into both sides and understands the genuine concerns of the individuals.
@@laurenlizzbeth she reads a lot into both sides and thought she understood the genuine concerns of the individuals. It's easy to read the words and understand what they are saying on a superficial level and think that you are being sympathetic, but until you can actually empathize with someone it's hard to actually understand the full implications they are trying to convey when they express their views. I think Natalie truly understands now. Tl;dr a book is not a shoe.
@@juliawilliams1355 What you are saying is true, but I don't think that Natalie understands it in an especially new way now. As mentionned in the "Cancelling" video, she had been cancelled before, and especially at a time when she couldn't rely as much on irl friends, and was much more dependent on the leftist and trans community. So if I'm not mistaken she's already saying that from experience here.
@@ellawelly it makes me sad because i'm left and always have been, but because the right is so ready to jump on examples of "snowflakes" and "anti-free speech" warriors, like you said, I am always hesitant to critique the extreme/unreasonable aspects of the left because I don't want to be seen as part of the right. for example, when Nat was cancelled, anyone who was hesitant about her cancellation/critical of those that cancelled her was immediately labeled as bigoted and transphobic, even though they were not. sometimes it feels like the most extreme on the left have taken "the left" for themselves, and they consider anyone who slightly disagrees with them as part of the right. sorry this comment is a mess lol, i'm just confused and overwhelmed and idk how to feel.
That was hard to watch in a good way. I have much empathy with "tiffany's" who understandably want to pass as what society deems to be female. The enforcement of this narrow view of womanhood however can increase their feeling of not "belonging". Its an evil cycle really, if you don't pass "in the now" you will not be percieved as a woman, but by "passing in the now" you're reinforcing the narrow perception of what womanhood is thereby increasing your dysphoria. Its a really hard subject but you tackled it perfectly.
For you maybe, my eyes melted from cringe, just like with the „debating nazis“ one. I loved the style and content of both, but having to hear an imitation of those 'conservative’ shitheads is almost as bad as the real thing. Please end me.
passing does not reinforce a perception of womanhood. the actions of an individual do not always have some overarching political implication. people that pass are doing it because they can. there are very few (read: zero) binary trans women that CAN pass but choose not to. that is the point of alleviating dysphoria.
For me, Tiffany Tumbles is one of the most important characters ever written because she allowed me to understand and empathise with transmedicalists and the like in a way most spaces on the internet discourage, and also this character helped me to recognise my own behaviours and thought patterns that are similar to Tiffany’s in regard to other trans people, giving me the space to reflect on where these thoughts came from so I can deconstruct them without sinking into self hatred for having them at all. Thank you so much Natalie fr fr
@@Kelis98 you can have empathy for people and still think they are wrong. Of course, some cases notwithstanding, but when it's a marginalised group that is often scarred by layers and layers of trauma arguing inside itself, I think sometimes it's good to wave a little olive branch between us and remember they are not inhumane dickheads They are wrong, but they are also suffering as we all are-more or less, suffering is pain regardless
I can't say why, but in spite of the fact that coming out at 35 seems to make my life so difficult, I feel as if I would be destroying something valuable if I were to somehow become something or someone else.
@@AnneH1021 Agreed. The super glam straight girl thing isn't my bag. Long/fake, decorative nails especially. Give me the au naturel Adria over the overdone Tiffany any day of the week!
I am a trans woman. I don't have "the surgery" but I am on hormones. Fortunately I have very feminine features so I dont need work but .... that came with a price I suppose.. bullying. I come from a very conservative place, homosexuality was taboo and god forbid you were trans cause to the mental asylum you go. That being said I mentioned that I have very feminine features ... well that paired with long hair makes you look like a girl, *and I loved it* . I loved every minute of someone not knowing me and saying *you're welcome young lady* or *such a pretty girl* . Well .... it didnt go as well for people who knew me. They bullied me and bullied until I broke. I didnt want to live, I didnt want to see . I just wanted to be anything else then what I was. I always questioned that if this god of theirs is so kind why is he making me go through this. One day when I hit 16 , they cut all my hair. It was the only thing that made me happy and I lost it. I just entered the worst time of my life. So when she said that she would want to be anything but this it really hit home. I didnt have such a bad break down for a long time. Now things are going smoothly , I don't get clocked boots the house down mama yes GAWD, but every time I see one of my old bullies I freeze so I'm working on that. Your past videos really helped me accept myself and become who I an today.
It's like a documentary strapped to a rollercoaster. You never know when it's going to be sad, ridiculous, hilarious, or some combination of the three.
really, this. like, i think it's in healthy human nature to have competition and debate, but when it goes so far as to make someone truly hate being themselves? it's unacceptable. it's like having a friendly wrestling match and breaking the other person's bones. lgbtq+ don't deserve to be hated and they don't deserve to hate themselves just on the basis of being lgbtq+. if someone's gonna hate me, i'd prefer it be because i've actually done something wrong, not just because i'm different from them.
People in my country are very conservative (probably others): glorifying war and the military, praising the "traditional life"(the life where women were slaves to men , children were abused in the name of "discipline" and gays were jailed just cuz they exist) and loving the fact that "were not like the cultural Marxists who turn their kids gay"
Does anybody else get the irony of the right wing using the term "red pill" from the Matrix ???? A movie written by two trans women tha is about a white computer nerd elarning about the real word around him from a black guy and a women. This along with the numerous other hints regarding trans people in America.
I accidentally misread this as "Why am I always surrounded by crying homosexuals?" To which I say: same. Then I reread. I still concur, but thought this magnificent misread needed to be shared!
@@MissPoplarLeaf oh, I did watch it. I just didn’t know that they were referring to he video (was kinda hoping it was a series lol) anyways thank you ✨
I legit was in tears at the self-doubt part, it hit me hard knowing there’s so many people out there going through that same psychological torment. I was also laughing though because that music was so expertly used there.
Consider too that this video was uploaded around the time that Natalie said she stopped visiting 4chan's /lgbt/ board. The thoughts of how people handle themselves there is probably fresh on her mind.
Trans guy here, knowing deep internet trans stuff is hard, contra keeps it real for those of us who haven't been on 4chan or susan's place for 9 years straight.
@Mark Donald " thank God the kids don't have Internet access and can't look it up!" They can also just look up porn, its the parents job to moderate internet activity and a sign is the least of the problems. Also the sexualisation of children? What the fuck? Don't pull out the Desmondisamazing bullshit because everyone agrees that's bad.
I also really love the exchange at 11:22 when Tiffany feels gorgeous, and bases her confidence in her looks to put down Adria and her right to existence when she wants to silence her in order to make trans women (and herself, primarily), more palatable to cisgender people. But this is immediately met by opposition by Jackie, who feels threatened by Tiffany's confidence and beauty. By calling her a hairless sextoy, Jackie invokes a (bad) feminist argument that trans women are inauthentic in their presentation of women because they enforce harmful notions of femininity. It's just a really interesting take on how women feel threatened by each other and how we tear each other down. Jackie and Tiffany would probably be at each other's throats all day, with Tiffany acting meekly to Jackie, but tearing down Adria as much as possible to win Jackie's approval. It's just such an interesting moment in this whole video!
that part made me cringe because i have totally thought that before "my nose is big, what's wrong with a big nose?!" ... it's so easy to fall into that trap of letting your personal insecurities dominate everything and ignore the bigger picture
I will never forgive twitter for making me not want to watch your videos. For so long when they came up in my recommended I thought you were an alt right transphobe because of what I saw on twitter and I didnt want any part in it. Then I decided to watch the cancelling video one day and I'm so glad I did. Watching your videos has made me realise how dangerous leftist online circles can be, and also makes me think I should tru and be a bit more understanding to my fellow LGBTQ+ siblings who fall down the path tiffany tumbles fell down.
Yeah, she's definitely not an alt right person or anything like that. The worst accusations based in anything she got were being a truscum (which is disputable given her history defending nb people and disputing transmedicalism), anything else was just misinformation
I think this is a big issue of the left, they really reduce people too much. It's why I *kept* watching Blaire White after everyone was calling her a transphobe; because there are SO MANY times where they just mischaracterize people based on one (1) mistake they made of for maybe some beliefs they don't necessarily believe in. What's worse is that many of these types of people desperately try to paint them as some kind of evil to make you want to avoid engaging with them, instead of just saying they dont like them and leaving it as that. Back to the Blaire thing, I thought they were just overreacting and mischaracterizing someone again- but they weren't. The problem isn't that they were right, it's the fact that they basically become "the boy who cried wolf" when they try to vehemently cancel anyone without actually looking beyond the surface level of controversy.
@@phibie8853 Your argument here is a lot easier to make when you group everyone on the left together lol Maybe if rather than not trusting literally anyone under the MASSIVE and incrediblyvague banner of "the left" you trusted certain reputable people and distrusted others, your problem might be solved
@@NZsaltz ok, I know the left isnt just one entity, and I could have worded that better. when I generalized, I did just mean the certain people on the left who call people out like it's their jobs (specifically those who react without the full picture even being out yet.) I mostly saw Blaire being called a transphobe on Twitter before I stopped watching her, and all of that was just unconvincing to me given how often cancelling is just done out of disliking a person and wanting others to dislike them too.
So insane considering her videos literally took off based on her ones about decrypting alt right language, and the modern left, and deconstructing stupid ideology about pronouns and even the idea of a “transtrender”
I love the way you humanize all your characters, and give all your characters flaws. My favorite part is the part towards the end where Tiffany kinda tries to reach out to Adria, almost for sympathy, but Adria scares her off. Even though the temptation is strong to see Tiffany as the bad one because she's obviously wrong about a lot of things, that interaction highlights the responsibility we leftists bear in driving vulnerable people away from us, and how hard it is, but how important it is, to meet people where they're at, and with compassion. Somebody in the comments linked the debate you had last year with Blaire White (who I hadn't heard of before) and I watched the whole thing, and as a 3rd party it touched me because it really seemed to be a situation where you had two basically decent, sensitive people struggling to get into each others' vocabularies and still get their basic needs met, ending in a sort of tragic stalemate because each could only hear attacks in the words the other perceived as "normal." I think your ability to empathize with and in a way _become_ the Tiffanies of the world is what makes you so uniquely good at elucidating concepts at the heart of leftist praxis. It makes you a gifted teacher and even a gifted leader (don't know if you think of yourself as a leader but I would say you are).
"Even though the temptation is strong to see Tiffany as the bad one because she's obviously wrong about a lot of things, that interaction highlights the responsibility we leftists bear in driving vulnerable people away from us" That's a risk, sure, but I wouldn't call that a responsibility by any means. Trying to be open in a moment like that means being vulnerable, even if it's just for a moment. Not everyone can do that, especially when so many discussions these days don't go anywhere productive (on the internet, for example). Sometimes it just ends with the other person insulting you and not relenting. If it gets to a point where someone needs to choose between their mental health and reaching out to others, there's no objectively better choice, no responsible choice, just whatever choice is best for that person.
ThatBoringOne I agree with that! At least on an individual level; I was speaking about leftists more on a movement-wide level, that’s where the “responsibility” can be articulated as such, a strategic imperative. Also, to clarify, I definitely wouldn’t include “internet discourse” as an example of a place or time when meeting people where they’re at is particularly feasible. I’m more talking about when we encounter people in real life, as in family or friend circles, and can offer actual heart-to-hearts - our ability to influence strangers, positively or negatively, even in person, is limited. But then that’s why using media as a tool is so great, because you can send really in-depth, intimate messages out to people, even strangers, without it taking the same toll that it would to meet them like that in real life. I was praising Natalie on what makes her approach unique, powerful, and inspiring.
I don't comment much on RUclips, because I've hit the point of middle age where I'm smart enough to know even I don't care much what I think. That said, you're an extraordinary person, and an incredibly talented creator. I've watched thousands of videos here over the years, and this one occupies a stratosphere of its own. Extraordinary work. Truly.
Fuck You XD I love reading people's comments and input. Your comment brings more depth to an already deep conversation. Your opinion on this video is just as important as the making of it.
@@fhh4000 you're lucky if you dont know. She's a Republican trans girl who goes around criticizing other trans girls for not passing as well as her as well as defend very transphobic behavior from celebrities like JK Rowling. She sets up random trans people to vilify them as horrible people with misleading information, launching attack campaigns. She's sooo toxic. Ugh
Her drunk hatred of everything is under-appreciated. She's the only "normal woman" character Natalie portrays and yet she's so shallow and stupid without being a trope. Fantastic
I really respect how you make Tiffany pitiable rather than just unlikable. I rarely want to give people like her a big hug and tell them that I accept them, and if the world doesn't, the world is wrong. Guess I should try and foster that more.
Hey. Please keep up the good work. I am a straight guy who grew up in a super homophobic environment and getting over that shit has taken me years. You are doing good work there. I don't know you personally but I love what you are doing and this video is really powerful. I love your videos and your political content but there's a lot more substance in the humanity of your message. hope I can bring encouragement somehow. Blessings.
Daniel Alveo While I can't say it took me too long to get over homophobia, I can relate somewhat coming from a sorta homophobic family and going to religious schooling through 11th grade. I adapted quick but I was also left very naive. I'm still learning about LGBTQ stuff, even despite falling under that umbrella myself.
ContraPoints, I just want to say thank you. About 9 months ago (Fall 2017) I found your channel, and it really played a role in coming up from the rabbit hole. I had been a passive follower of what became the alt-right, passive in that I consumed the media, and got into the online arguments with people about all the political issues. After the election I was shocked. I had assumed that giving Trump the benefit of the doubt would be a harmless activity, that there was no way he'd actually win. I wasn't a full on supporter, mind you, but I had fallen more on the center right spectrum, inching very closely to a very ugly group. After he won I was in shock, it really was a slap to the face that America really hadn't evolved past things. I spent the next few months trying to reconcile everything. I had connected with some more progressive media channels, but it was your channel that really pulled me back into thinking. I just wanted to give this brief summary so you know that what you are doing works. I used to watch the two channels you were referencing and many worse. Seeing you present them in your style really made me reflect on my thoughts and the role your style of content played in coming back from a strange place. So, Thank You.
Never stop learning and growing, we all have a lifetime to work on, Contra probably won't read either of these comments, but her work has also been eye-opening to me and thanks Douglas for sharing and try to make a difference in the future. =8)-DX
Natalie, I love that you close it with an illustration of Tiffany’s makeup process. It shows the extent to which you go to pass, even in your own videos. I’m sorry this bullshit is such bullshit. Thank you for your performances, because they’re really helping all of us. They’re amazing.
That was goddamn genius. Her videos just keep getting better. It's like, oh hey do you think Tiffany is a bitch? Well, this is what I actually have to do every day to feel like a woman. So many layers of makeup, so many layers to human beings
@@ay.w.1758 and what _I'm_ saying is it's still absurd and crazy and Herculean amounts of effort, and it's a shame women feel pressured to do all that just to be accepted, even if many/most women do it
@@ay.w.1758 I think more could be said to the self-loathing crisis Tiffany suffered right before she got up and made another day playing the part. The issue is Tiffany inwardly hates herself. She has taken all the things said about her as truth, and moves forward with her life with this internalized loathing. Even so, Tiffany goes right back to it the next morning like nothing. Continuing the cycle of self loathing, wearing her makeup not in celebration of her female self, but as a mask for her deep shame, so the masked persona she adopts can make it through the day. The issue isn't the makeup. It's why she wears it. And it's sad and tragic, and would be more so if Tiffany were not so damaging to others going through that same struggle.
@@ay.w.1758 If this were a problem of simply feminine makeup I wouldn't bother. Your being a linguist is great, congratulations on the study. I recognize that not everyone would put in the effort, and that does offer you the ability to understand things better than some who have not had this study. Even so, I don't think the issue of linguistics enters this discussion. The issue that Tiffany has isn't that she does her makeup. Tiffany does it at the beginning of the video and is even able to add commentary, and power through some of the more stressful and possibly humiliating aspects, such as getting her eye glued shut. If anything what she does at the beginning required more effort than the second part. That she does her makeup the day after her breakdown isn't Herculean. It's her norm. She pulls off her routine with no issues at all and if anything, she makes it appear mundane. The point of the scene, especially that ending shot, has nothing to do with comparing the effort to cis women. It speaks solely to a pain that only trans women experience, and the issue of it following applying makeup is only tangentially related to something cis women do. The subject is how some trans people percieve themselves in context to society as a whole. It has everything to do with the tragedy that at the end, Tiffany does not see herself as beautiful despite her makeup, which is a lengthy process that she does daily and is a part of her life. She will never be beautiful, according to herself. She never can, because she has taken the rhetoric of hate and internalized it. No amount of mastery of makeup will help heal that wound, and in fact it will fester and worsen. Tiffany sees herself as mutilated, and wants to be anything but herself. Cis women have their own pain and suffering when it comes to being seen as beautiful, and I am not challenging that. I am challenging that you think that the scene is insulting to you because makeup is nothing to you. It's another day in the life and it's a nonissue. However as a cis woman you won't ever experience being seen as a man wearing makeup. You won't ever know the pain and humiliation of wanting to be seen as a woman, and not only being told you're failing at it, but that you're being ridiculous or even mentally ill for trying. That is the tragedy, that Tiffany has embraced the slurs and insults as a necessary part of the trans experience, and thinks she has the right of it. She thinks those advocating for change from the detractors are wrong. It hurts her deeply, and even then she self reinforces the hate by saying she isn't a victim. The makeup is a plot point. The issue is the internalized hate, the ache no makeup will ever soothe even if it is covered up. The worst part is, Tiffany takes that pain and uses it to inflict the same wound on other trans women, who see what she is doing but do not see her pain and suffering. She suffers alone because admitting to it would be to stand against what she thinks is right, to play as much into mainstream appeal as possible, to gain acceptance from those who hate her, not to demand change and reform.
I recently came out to a close friend and caught myself saying "I was worried you'd think I'd go nuts about pronouns all day". That sentence made me stop and rethink what i was saying. I was still relieved when he reacted by saying that how I define myself doesn't change a thing and I can tell he was speaking the truth from the way he's treated me since then. But this internalized fear of coming across as annoying or overly sensitive when I actually feel that using someone's correct pronouns is the right and polite thing to do was something I was completely unaware of until this very moment. Thinking I have to be an "easy to chew flavour of trans" that isn't upsetting the less tolerant individuals among cis people is definitely highly toxic. And yet it's really hard to shake off, I still feel a clump in my throat when I want to tell people to use the name Alexis rather than my dead name. I know it's my right to do so, and yet the fear of being labelled as annoying and a snowflake is very real.
I came out a few months ago & I'm still kindasorta here & I really hate that I'm constantly apologizing any time I end up in a conversation about my transness, or I feel bad when my partner corrects himself on my pronouns [since he's the only one actively gendering me correctly]. I feel like an enormous hassle & imposition & it's so dumb that I feel that way. I've only come out to a couple close friends & haven't touched social media since well before I came out & I'm definitely not going back until I can sort through this shit because IDK how I'm gonna survive even benign ignorance when I still have so much internalized transphobia left in me.
It doesn’t sound like you were worried about being rude and pushy to some of the less tolerant cis people, it sounds like you were worried about being rude and pushy to someone you knew supported you in your transition. I don’t think there was anything wrong with what you said.
i find it really interesting how tiffany, despite being the one most eager to appease jackie, actually ended up not being invited back to the show. even though she was trying so hard, the behavior motivated by her desire to please ended up being a huge turn off--preventing her from reaching her goal.
After seeing Contra's recent coming out video on dealing with shame for being a trans lesbian...how people treated the culture and how it's even affected her personal relationships, this video feels very Freudian...and it hurts. Contra, I hope you can find joy and solace in life. I can't imagine what the struggle of being trans must feel like. :
It was really hard for me to watch this video the first time. It was a few months ago and I had been really smug and thought I knew it all. I thought I was the rational trans guy who wasn't one of those crazy SJW types. When I saw this video though, it really struck a chord somewhere. I saw myself in Tiffany and it made me... Sad. It was hard to take that look at myself, in a way, and to see someone else act out how I had felt so many times before. I had started to reconsider what I thought I had known. While I still catch myself thinking "oh great, this person is going to make us look bad again," I have tried to be better. Thank you for this video. It really helped open my eyes and get me out of the truscum community.
hey so fellow trans guy here who's also a fan of contrapoints but there's still only two genders and both the truscum and tucute communities have problems
@@nicolasnamed I'm not saying she is, but neither are you. What my point was was why did you feel the need to comment that? "Just givin you the facts" is so fuckin douchey, dude. Don't be an ass. Its uncalled for.
that exactly happened to me. kalvin garrah. miss london. storm ryan. blaire white. the works right? you think youve ascended. you think youve broken free of those fucking annoying sjws. youre a normal, logical trans person. but it all comes crashing down on you eventually. and you realize kalvin garrahs retoric- its all just a self defense mechanism instilled to distance himself from transphobia. its exactly the same thing as "not being like those other girls".
omg tigerstar I had no idea u were into contra! Thank god, so many fucking people in the youtube history scene (which i still love) fall into the kind of gamer reactionary ideology which is just the worst. Thank you so much for not falling in with them!
Tiffany isn't new, she was also the one that debated with Abigail in the "TERFs" video. But she's changed so much she almost look like an entire new character (but tbh so does Jackie)
My 2 conflicting states of being "Why am I constantly surrounded by homosexuals?" and "I need to not be around straight people for a long time after this"
The part when Tiffany was crying and hating herself hit me so fucking hard as a trans man. I related to it a lot (obviously the part about wanting to be a woman is the other way around but you get the idea).
I feel for Tiffany as a Transman. Everything she said about being accepted was exactly how a felt, even down to her views. I felt like I had to do all of that to be accepted and its exhausting. A month ago I finally broke down and said those words "I just want to be a guy, I just want to be normal, I don't want this." In context, a transphobe just my guild in WoW and I had to continue my mask of "Im not like one of those other transpeople. Nothing offends me." This guy called me out in front of the entire guild, refusing to call me Alec or he. Saying its he's believe and "I shouldn't be attacked for calling a girl a girl" No one would come to my aid, because no one saw this as an attack. I eventually went to an officer and he had the nicest thing I have ever heard "Someone says happy Hanukkah to me it isn't going to kill me to say it back just because i don't celebrate that holiday thats what I don't understand. I wont pretend like I understand all of it. There is no way I could. But I try. It isn't hard and anyone who cares about it enough to voice an opinion like that isn't worth my time or yours. I can't change other peoples beliefs or opinions but I do know that whatever you believe it should not affect how you treat other people and if he treats people like that it is his attitude and personality not his beliefs to blame" I had never had someone that understood, I felt so stupid because I cried. I had someone who fully understood me without me having to bend over backwards to show I'm normal. This guy was kicked after one more comment.
This story had a happier ending than I was expecting. I can't imagine what its like to be you and I'll probably never understand it fully, but while I'm sure you've had to deal with a lot of assholes in your life, there are people out there like your guild officer and I hope like me who try to stand up for people even if we don't quite understand it. I know I just want to live my life and be me, and being me is pretty easy, nobody ever questions my identity or what I want to do with my life and yet life can still be hard, I still have bad days, and I still feel like I need to be a certain way and accomplish certain things to be acceptable. Everyone should be able to be true to themselves and live life how they want to live and not be made to feel different or lesser for it, I can only imagine the pressure of dealing with all of that before you even get to the baseline day-to-day grind that is hard enough as it is.
As someone who's still in the coming out process and seriously afraid of insisting on people using my name instead of my dead name... thank you for this comment.
@@Itri_Vega it’s not easy, but you’ll find your group of people who will support you. Validate you every day. and these people will defend your identity to the death to anyone who tries to invalidate you. It won’t be so hard after that :)
Me too, but everything Adria said afterward was so right that I’m concerned that I might have been wrong to completely write off that line as ridiculous
TheWizardOfOsborne "transphobia is racist" is a maaaaaassive oversimplification but things like "saying there are only two genders or that transness is new indicates an ignorance of non-white cultures that have had more than two genders for hundreds of years" is an actually fair point
Some white cultures also have had more than 2 genders for thousands of years and plenty of non-white cultures only see 2 genders or see more genders but only see them as outsiders and rejects, not every thing bad has to be racist.
I was not ready for that breakdown scene. That felt way too real and way too much like a flashback. I want everyone here to know that it's okay to be trans. I am, too. You all deserve to be happy and safe and feel loved. Natalie, I hope you are doing okay and thank you for all of your videos.
The "I'm so discusting" scene its suuper strong, I wanted to cry with her. I'm really impressed. Congratulations, I think its the first time I get sad and shocked watching one of your videos.
Asteroide same. 🙁 I had to stop during that part, and I’ve never had to struggle with issues of gender dysmorphia and the like. The self-loathing alone felt too real and tangible and it’s painful to continue watching.
I've always been supportive of trans people, but as a cis person I've never understood the sheer amount of mental hurdles you have to go through until I watched this video. Her saying she mutilated her body and she just wishes she were female broke my heart. I never really understood until i saw a slice of what it must be like. Edit: I'm enby now lol... I've been transed they got me
I've heard before that the suicide rate amongst trans teens is very high but only after watching this video (and others of Natalie) I began to understand this fact
I don’t personally suffer from any sort of gender dysphoria yet have found so much solace in watching your videos. First of all they have really helped me learn about the issues faced by trans women and men, which is helpful because two people very close to me are transgender, but on a more selfish level I just find your videos are oddly comforting and really capture the horrors of being human and make me feel not so alone or crazy throughout harrowing depression and crippling anxiety
Neither do I, and am straight, but like you, I also appreciate some of the videos. I'm not sure there is a label or category for it, but for a long time, I've felt like a blend/synthesis of male and female within one--but just in a consciousness and psychological way, not physically or sexually. I've dressed up a few times for Halloween, and it was fun/enjoyable, but don't feel a strong or constant need to do same. Strange as it may sound, for some, it is really hard to experience being human and for others not so much. I have ideas and hypotheses about that based on some experiences, but this is largely a rather intellect and left brain oriented crowd, so I'll keep it to self. But suffice it to say--whatever the cause(s), it does happen, and I particularly understand that as I often felt like an ET dropped off here from somewhere VERY different. Which is interesting since around ages 4 to 5, I would have a repeating dream about being on a spaceship traveling from somewhere very far away to here.
As a Trans Woman, 10 years after transition, I would have to say this is a great video. Lots for people to contemplate. Mostly, I saw myself at various points in my life. The activism, the alcoholism, and the self loathing. I think you've been honest about what is going on in our heads, Natalie, as we try to navigate through society as the people we see ourselves as, mainly Women. But, also feeling outside of the binary of Man and Woman at times. Although, most of us are loathe to say so, myself included, I feel we are different than natal Men or Women. I know, I know, it doesn't help the cause. But we can talk to each other about it, can't we? Internally, from my point of view, I wasn't raised as a boy, I was raised as a Trans kid. Very scared and messed up. Spending nearly a year of my young life institutionalized because of depression. Not willing to tell a soul about myself, until I opened up to my then wife(1999ish), then I couldn't get the genie back in the bottle, so I hit the bottle. Until, of course, I crashed and had to deal with it. Or die. So I transitioned got divorced, but stayed friends, only to watch her die of cancer (2008). Meanwhile, I met my current partner, who I am still with. The good, the bad, the old, and the new, all happening at the same time. It's kinda boring now, but I'm getting used to it. Life isn't perfect, but it isn't as chaotic either. All of this leading to me today. 55 years old with a girlfriend, also trans (yea!), of 14 years. I look back and it all could have ended up very badly, on many an occasion. But, it didn't and I'm still here, so I can watch something like this video. I'm glad I made it, and not to sound corny, but YOU CAN TOO. If I could give you any advice, don't be Tiffany. Not everyone is going to like you. Fuck'em! Find the people that do like you, for being you, and stay with them. Great job as always Natalie. It's great to see you grow and change. So far, you're doing great. Keep the videos coming. Can't wait to talk about this with my partner later. Cheers from the Badgerland.
I don't know you of course, but I'm glad you made it too. Thanks for not giving up. It's a real blessing to us all when someone passes through their hells and comes out the other side.
The picture is of our cat. His name is Boy-boi. He likes to eat your hand and get lots of loving. He's is four years old and a rescue, as is his sister, Girl-grrl.
I've definitely had those moments. Everyone's dysphoria is different so idk if this is a pattern among trans people or just a specific pathology that me and tiffany share, but I definitely catch myself wishing I was pretty much anything else. Cis man, cis woman, hell, I'd take non-binary, I just hate that I ended up as a binary trans woman. And I also catch myself much too often having thoughts like "if I was a girl-" and lately I've been catching myself and making sure I stop that thought right there because I am a girl and it really sucks that my brain still has so much internalized transphobia to the point where I just hate myself for being trans even though I also fully understand my gender and am very secure in it.
"[I wish I was] anything but this. I am destroying my body. Who could ever love this? I am just mutilating myself. It is so disgusting. God, I am so disgusting. I am so disgusting." That hit me right in the face :'(
@@bigboss3051 I feel like Big Boss is too secure in himself for this petty nonsense. Even Venom, the hollowed-out shell of a brainwashed body double, wouldn't stoop to such. Snake. You stink.
I love your channel. I'm a straight white guy and I've always hated the stupid gender stereotypes that came with that. I hated that taking a bath was considered too girly for men even though a bath at the end of a long day is literally the best thing in the world. I grew up in a house of women and I've always identified with things that women like and men like. I hate that there has to be two sides in the minds of most people. I wish we could all be people that don't attach some arbitrary action to gender identity. You're awesome. Just discovered your channel a few days ago and I've been binge watching ever since.
Saaaame. This channel makes me feel more masculine because I realized I was internalizing gender bigotry. I like chopping down trees, cuddling, and girls with combat boots. We are all just random experiences and chemicals mashed together to make a person, roles are for plays
Btw I know this is out of context, but the person Blaire dates (fiance) Joey, said in one of her videos when she discusses if he's gay or not, that "I'm attracted to hot chicks, she is a hot chick and that's all that matters." Which I think is very nice of him, and it's a good thing because he really does care about her :) I hope Blaire (If she is going through what Tiffany is going through) will understand that she doesn't need to try hard or anything, Joey already sees her as what she is. I swear, Joey really seems like a really genuine and nice guy to me and I hope Blaire isn't being with him "Because he is a heterosexual looking man" or anything (;´･ω･)
some details might've lost to memory but when i remember their vid about joey reacting to her teen pictures it warms me heart, lol. some of his reactions i understand might be a little transphobic or at least seen as such, but also ... he didn't resort to calling blaire a man and he went through it. also a lot of the pictures were just cringey as fuck (as teenage pictures/selfies tend to be) so maybe he was reacting more to that rather than seeing blaire pre-transition lol.
@Beautiful Jazz Whaaatt why is she degrading herself so much it's not even true....? I haven't watched her videos since I stopped watching so I'm definitely not up to date but damn...
Very interesting how a few years ago Contra called Blaire White a bully and questioned Blaire White's trans experience when Contra didn't identify as trans and now that Contra has gone through the experience herself, we see Contra place herself in a character similar to everything she was criticizing from Blaire White. Guess Contra gets it now that she's lived it.
Don’t. Read. The. Comments.
I guess people will want to know what this video is about. Well, it’s about Tiffany Tumbles.
Okay fine. You wouldn’t be wrong if you said it’s about the politics of self-loathing, power dynamics within LGBTQ communities, how bigotry becomes internalized and how internalized bigotry becomes the alibi of external bigotry,
There, I ruined it for you.
Also, I feel that I should say that now is a particularly difficult time to be trans and a lot of us are feeling it. If you need help, contact these orgs:
Trans Lifeline
USA: (877) 565-8860
Canada: (877) 330-6366
The Trevor Project (LGBTQ*)
USA: (866) 488-7386
ContraPoints one day enough people will twist Dave's harm to let leftists on (you)
ContraPoints when did you become a Nipponese drag queen? 😄
It's too late for me. Tell my family that I love them.
so we lost tiffany to the discourse??? can we get a redemption arc for her? I really like her.
STOP CHARACTER MURDERING YOUR CHARACTERS!!!
ContraPoints this is probably the best video I've seen on this issues, Thank you for all you do and stay beautiful.
Fictional debates are such a timeless tradition in philosophy. Glad you're keeping the custom alive.
...haha. haha. ha.
So. All words are "gay"... except for the word "gay"?
Something something featherless bipeds
Countdown Bleck lol, rekt
some of this is almost word-for-word for arguments i've seen on lgbt forums, facebook, twitter, and tumblr. i wish this was just a comedy sketch
Natalie is literally the dark horse queen of everything and she’s so pretty
Natalie has the peak AESTHETIC
(can't do full-width text, windows fucked me)
Boo Machine I gotchu fam.
ＡＥＳＴＨＥＴＩＣ
Katzun! I'm glad to see your a fan too!
kat u have good taste :") bless u
"how can you be a trans woman and a lesbian" FORESHADOWING
pizzannn RIGHTT
Came back for this
how so?
Serena Madrigal-Gelb ruclips.net/video/K7WvHTl_Q7I/видео.html
Was anyone else terrified when Tiffany was walking home alone. I mean I was legit concerned for her safety and I thought this video was going a very dark place.
It DID go to a dark place.
same 😬
Hannah Louise
not as dark as it could have, but you're right
@@ItsJustMeJannah well yes but not as dark as my imagination. Especially they were just talking trans women getting murdered.
Same :/
"You're one of the good ones." That right there illustrates the problem with the "I have a friend who is x" argument.
ok henry VIII
Henry, Henry, Henry
And yet there is such a thing as people who are x and are also assholes... How do we talk about them without being misinterpreted as critics of the whole of x?
@@Asehpe Then target their asshole tendency instead of their x-ness. And avoid using racially charged and or slurs targeted at groups. A jerk is a jerk no matter who or what they identify as.
@@justalostlocal wut
I was a total bigot towards trans rights until I found Contrapoints. She was winning me over with her fun left videos, then I watched this episode and cried so hard when Tiffany is crying because I realized how completely inhumane I was about trans people. Over the next couple days I kept thinking of that scene, it would bring me to tears, and now I've entirely changed my opinions about trans. This channel really changed my life for the better. Straight white cis male btw
Hey Andy, i just started watching her and although i had a liberal view i didn't understand anything about the struggles of trans people.
Im so glad i understand a bit better now, its important, she is great at what she does.
lol get a load of this dude
Good for you man, Allies are important.
what a champion. Us gays love a good conversion story
That's really just amazingly sweet.
All my love.
"i wish i were a woman. or anything but this." hurt my heart so so bad.
same :'(
CJ Parks, I get what she was doing, but it made me wonder if I just got a peek of what a woman suffering from gender dysphoria feels like in a drunken moment of clarity.
...me too
I am an old straight white man - this was painful to watch. It made me think "oh god don't let her commit suicide" _ I don't think I could take it
😭😭
Tiffany's mental breakdown over her dysphoria always breaks my heart
it's bone crushing!
mine too
Even as a cis person i can understand her at least on some level. I obviously don't understand entirely gender dysphoria, since i'm cis, but i seriously know what it feels like to be so disgusted with your own self and to fixate on that so much that it breaks you
It reminds me of my uni friend saying "sometimes then I see myself without make up, I still see a man". I didn't know what to do with it. I wonder how is she now
I'm cis and I literally cried with her, relating.
that scene at the end with tiffany crying killed my heart. made me realize i have no idea the kind of internal struggles trans people have to go through. no one should be made to think their existence or body is disgusting.
self acceptance is hard enough as a cis person, can't even imagine how much more amplified that is for a trans person. so many extra hurdles.
I know what you mean. You just want to take the hurt away. Then you think about things you may have said or thought when you were younger and think on the hurt you caused.
Not just to trans people.
And when I say you, I mean me.
Everyone except for blaire white
@@thewarmestmachine1211 I honestly think she does suffer.
And the way she acts is a defensive mechanism.
It doesn't excuse the damage she does but maybe if she hadn't suffered she may not be producing the horrible content that she does.
Felix Meister I can see that
Yea it really touched me. Im bi and always hid it and felt "wrong" when I was with guys because society or something. I though my internal struggle was hard, not that its a competition or anything. But I can hide in plain sight, I can bring a girl home and have her meet my parents, I can talk about girls I have dated and not tell anyone about my same sex relationships. But if I was gay I cant imagine how difficult it would be just because you love someone of the same gender and not being able to hide. And for trans people they cant hide, especially in the early years of transitioning. Every day judged, not being man enough or woman enough, everyone criticizing them for being born in the wrong body and trying to find a skin they feel natural in. Every day must be a struggle, never being able to hide. The rest of the LGBT+ community is so brave to me, they have to face real persecution and judgement from other people, and I can just hide in the crowd and let people assume Im straight.
i'm a 21 year old straight white male, and I always thought i was pretty open minded about everything including the trans community but ever since i found your channel you've shown me that i was still holding on to some pretty backwards logic when it came to specific parts of the trans community, and i just want to thank you for this fucking beautiful video, i genuinely feel i've grown as a person and educated myself so much more after watching your videos, thank you so much
Ditto. Was super antisjw a couple years ago. This feels similar to when I dropped my religion
Congrats dude!
Contrapoints should be shown in schools
nice bro
Share this with ur friends and straight male circles!!!
Another superb one, congrats! The acting in this is solid too!
Jackie's concern about who's what kind of gay with what sort of penis seems like quite a reductionist way to talk about attraction? Like, it surely wouldn't be controversial to say that a beauty mark or a certain hair colour on one person isn't as attractive to an individual viewer as on someone else, so why not a penis? Like just because someone has a crush on one blonde person doesn't mean they're automatically 5% more attracted to all other blonde people or whatever, because people aren't attracted to abstracted features but to a whole person - their personality, their vibe, their body, accent, the sweet things she says on Twitter, the fact that she's really clever, the RUclips content she makes...
Wait what was I saying?
You 2 are so cute together :)
I can't wait until your Halloween crossover
I'm gonna die from blushing too much
match made in heaven
The fanfic writes itself with these two I sware.
Tiffany's inner monologue got me. There's a lot more than just shade here, there's empathy too.
Bash Clopton I think some of that is actually Natalie's inner monologue as well. I remember her posting some stuff on twitter about her insecurities regarding getting plastic surgery amoung other things.
Kinda makes some of that part even harder to watch (In a good way mind you).
Parker Stetson I felt so much Nat's pain watching that
Yes, that made the two breakdown scenes particularly hard to watch; it was almost as if Natalie had waited until she was feeling really crap and vulnerable and then turned on the camera. Of course it all chimed very deeply with my own anxiety and self loathing and I wanted to reach through the screen and cuddle her...except that in reality I'm quite poor at that sort of thing...
Kirt Kirt I can tell you right now that most, if not almost all trans people have had the moment that Tiffany has in this video. Adria has had it. Natalie has had it. I've had it, though I never considered getting a nose job.
I don't think there's a plastic surgery that could make me pass, but I've many times felt like a freak of science who should be ashamed of what I've done with my body, with my life. And that if I'm going to impose upon the world by continuing my obscene existence, the least I can do would be to make it easier for people to stomach by meeting society's expectations for my gender better. Cut my hair, stop painting my nails, start talking about sportsball and wearing awful boring clothes and squashing my emotions.
The difference between Tiffany and Adria is not whether they feel that shame, guilt, and pressure, but how they respond to it- do you try to appease the transphobic voice in your head, or do you fight against it?
Kirt Kirt the view that "other trans people are invalid including me" can be found in this very comments section, as well as in Blaire White's body of work. Natalie actually had a stream conversation with her a while back where this view was expressed.
I feel like so many minorities can relate to this on some level. As a black person, I always wanted to fit in with my white peers. Thoughts like "Don't be ghetto, loud, or speak in an accent" always ran through my head. As a gay guy, thoughts like "Don't be too feminine, don't draw too much attention to yourself" constantly ran through my head too. From a young age, I cemented these thoughts into myself just to fit in and not be judged.
Not a minority, but I feel like as a girl, that's also a thing. I know many girls who were like me when I was 13 - I had learned that women are bad, that feminine means weak, embarrassing, catty, back-stabbing. I didn't want to be a girl, even though I wasn't trans. I was kinda tomboyish and was proud to have male friends bc "female friends are too much drama for me", shit like that. Ya know, the typical "not like other girls" phase, one that most girls have at some point, because we're taught that being like a girl is bad.
@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb Yes! There's always that one phase girls go through where they're like "I hate pink" and say how they hate girly things. It's so sad how girls are taught to hate their femininity sometimes and taught that their not as strong as men among other things.
I went through this exact thing in high School. I'd just be a floor mat because I didn't wanna be seen as the sensitive annoying black gay kid.
Mark Lee :0
@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb Yes! This! I remember rejecting Sailor Moon because it's a girrrrrrrrrrrrrl show and I don't like girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl stuff. It took a long time (early 20s?) for me to realize that women could be feminine AND strong...and that strength could be something more than physically powerful.
Honestly, I’m just happy that Tabby got a girlfriend, I thought she was going to have to punch Nazis alone her whole life.
A whole polycule too!
@@anomienormie8126 I'm happy for her
You're never alone when it comes to punching Nazis.
Tabby is probably my favorite contrapoints character. She’s so badass! 😂
i thought shame was my favourite video but tabby getting gf is a whole different level of happiness
Contra: Don't. Read. The Comments.
the comments: M O U T H F E E L
MJ Faretto
1k likes, no comments? Seems legit.
no replies? Now there are two of them
Obvious bots accounts liked the comment.
@@youtubearchive3668 Says the guy with the obvious bot account.
@@youtubearchive3668 bruh im 100% human and I'm all about the mouthfeel of girldick. maybe the reason no one commented is because nothing more needs to be said
Can’t count how many times my cishet classmates tell me “see, I like you because you’re not an ANNOYING trans/gay person. You’re not *like them* “ this complex of being accepted by cis people by preventing them from growing in understanding, because it’ll make us look like “crazy sjws”, is dangerous and I’m glad I didn’t fall for it. Little do my peers know I’m the very thing they swore to destroy
Its not all cis people. Ik what you mean but still. Cishet allies exist that understand these things
@@rosestrohm7986 Yes, some of them do, but those people clearly weren't the demographic being discussed.
@@kalejuice5701 Then its weird to label a certain group as "my cishet friends" as if all cishet people are like that
@Ratboyad This. ^ Also, I got that reference.
Aren't you marginalizing/generalizing an (EXTREMELY) large group of people yourself with your word choice? You're pulling the "all cis people don't understand" card when you yourself feel generalized and stereotyped. This is why your cis friends are anti-SJW; there is a very apparent contradiction.
I keep forgetting that all these characters are edited together post-script.
Like, my dumbass lizard brain keeps thinking there are actually three Natalie Wynn’s together in one room.
Technically we have no definitive reason to suggest there aren’t
More Natalies? Yes please!!!
xD Yea, I had a distinct sudden moment of realization that she is not, in fact, switching makeup and outfits between cuts.
The Natalie verse
I actually teared up during Tiffany's breakdown. That was beautifully written, acted and shot.
i agreed one of my favourite videos
Me too. I've heard before that the suicide rate amongst trans teens is a very high but only now I begin to understand the reasons for that
Me too. It was heartbreaking to watch, especially if I imagine they come from Natalie's own experience to some extent
This was just a poor caricature of conservative perspectives nothing beautiful or worthwhile here just the same arbitrary bigoted nonsense
@@luisandrade2254 dude Natalie isn't conservative, this whole narrative is anti transmedicalist (
"I wish I was a woman or anything but this" oh gosh, I cried. Thanks, ContraPoints
its just so emotionally moving and it makes you feel glad that you werent the only one that had those thoughts. i can think of so many times where i just wanted to be anything but a man, and now i'm making steps to make that happen, and contra was a big part of making that happen and assuring me that this can be done, and that there is a right and wrong way, and giving me a realistic outlook on what the community looks like, our strengths and weaknesses, and where i fit into it all
Me too buddy
I did too. I bawled my eyes out.
I just want to hug you all and make it better. You all deserve better from us.
@@ashr6982 Another trans woman who is less than a year into her transition and yeah that hit really close to home too, especially after dealing with a rather transphobic member of my family who still claims to "love and support" me. It's a rough struggle girl
This is a few more expensive cameras away from being an academy award winning shortfilm.
Congratulations, this channel has truly ascended recently.
If you haven't watched The Hunger yet, you really should...
how do i make up
Yas
Sonic the Hedgehog makeup stream incoming?
hbomberguy apply soy on face
ya contour on point
also love your content make more or I go incel
I would subscribe to a Contrapoints makeup tutorial channel it'd be lit
damn though ,that bit where Tiffany goes, "I had just come out as trans, I was putting myself out there online, and like that, the trans community dropped me like a piece of trash. And I had no support, nothing -- absolutely alone...one wrong move and you're dead to them."
I realize at the time this was sort of a socratic, devil's advocate thing, but it so closely mirrors what Natalie is going through.
Yeah. It reminded me a lot of what Natalie said in her video Canceling.
Jordan Sullivan She said this kind of thing happened to her around 2017, so she probably drew on her experience when she wrote that line.
cancelling culture
@Jane The Creator i'd say a big portion of online activism, no matter what cause, is just that. so many people are more concerned about "fighting against" instead of "progress toward". the former is very much like what you describe: fight against a common enemy, and if they aren't in their radar, then make one. antagonise and demonise. "cancel" and tear down. the subject might be similar or even exactly the same as progressing toward, but imo, trying to progress include opening and having conversations, explain the issue and why certain behaviour/thoughts might be harmful. the focus is to educate and enlighten, finding and creating allies so they too can spread the awareness instead of making everyone that disagree even slightly, or worse: genuinely ignorant and clueless, as the enemies.
you still see a lot of people that focus on progressing, conversing, and educating. but it's also not uncommon to see them, too, casted aside as "traitors" and belittled for not joining the mob.
yes, because it's a well written character, not just plain evil, villainified and stupid, but with legitimate reasons to think and behave the way she does. I really admire Natalie's ability to empathize with these archetypes in order to better understand where they come from, instead of dismissing whatever they say just because she doesn't agree with them, or doesn't share the same experiences as them (non-binary people). we should all thrive to understand each other instead of going at each other's throat for not having the same position. if we tried to understand each other, we could easily come to an agreement. I can see Natalie had a lot of fun writing and playing that character. I am nothing like Tiffany Tumbles, but I almost cried during her breakdown because I could understand how she felt.
"When was the last time you were attracted to chromosomes?" Funniest argument ever
Ever since chromosomes determine physical and sexual features.
p995 except in the case of all the trans people out there who have male chromosomes but female physical features, or vice versa? dum dum
@@nottheborg836 like what physical features dum dum dum? Slender fingers?
p995 well what physical features are you talking about?
@@Deathdrummer195 You mean you are only into people when you see them naked? Because I am usually into people before I take a look up their pants. On the other hand I am totally fine with your fetish, I hope other people are too.
This is a modern day Socratic dialogue. This is what Plato would be doing in 2018.
You know, if the ancient Greeks didn't hate women..
@@dunnejos8423 Yes, everyone back then just HATED women. That's entirely correct...
@@leahsander5490 if you're referring to the fact that Greek women couldn't vote. That they weren't allowed in the symposium. That they weren't allowed adult education in Athens? What about that women in ancient Greece were literally bought and sold as property?
Seems pretty sexist and misogynistic to me. Did you even read Socrates or Plato? The way they talk about women is a direct reflection of Greek society at the time
@@dunnejos8423 1. Most men also couldn't vote.
2. Most men didn't get an education either.
3. Men were also bought and sold as property.
Seems like a pretty aristocratic, non-egalitarian society to me.
Also, hate was the word that poked me. Hate is active and intense. If every man before the 1960s HATED women, we as a species would not exist right now.
@@leahsander5490 careful, you're minimising their lived experience and worldview with your nuance. Continue and you'll be labelled an enemy, doxxed and have your life ruined for resisting ridiculous restrospective application of contemporary normative standards.
Welcome to the far right Robert... we will love and nurture you...
I love how Tiffany Tumbles is a clear parody of Blair White. I mean it was pretty subtle for most of the video, but that pose with the MAGA hat, the peace sign, and the wink was quite on the nose.
Éowyn Salvador blaire white was found scalped and wiggles
I feel like this portrays Blaire so well. She wants so badly to seem normal and be accepted by cis people and she tries so hard to be "different than the other trans people" and "one of the good ones" to conservatives
It was not subtle at all lol
xmindxblownx 69 I kind of felt bad for the GameStop tran. She's lived through a time where, in a lot of ways, things were more difficult for trans people. She's probably a very repressed person who's got a lot of built up rage and emotion from a lifetime of external and internal shame.
The way she reacted was not acceptable, but I can see why she reacted that way and it makes me sad.
It's a perfect example of what happens when you deal with a life of unacceptance, it's a result of systematic bigotry towards trans people, and a window into the affects of the cruel treatment a majority of society has put towards the trans community for centuries.
She could've handled the situation better, but we don't know exactly what she's been through and that could've been the straw that broke the camel's back.
I just hope she's getting the help and support she needs.
@@phoebeblaze3668 like i'm in no way transphobic or anything but like
my only argument for that gamestop person is just like
"come on"
like i don't want to say that transgender people necessarily have to pass as the other gender but in this case just like...
come on
I'm not trans, I'm not gay, but i understand self-loathing and the desire to adapt well to society, and be unsuccessful in adapting well to society. This video really moved me.
same
"Anything but this" had me in tears. I know as a cis female I'll never fully grasp what trans people go through, but I have struggled with ED all my life and that line is something I've said to myself before. 🖤🖤🖤
How does a cis female struggle with Erectile Dysfunction? 🤔
@@dologan ED as in eating disorder, dumbass.
I'm trans and I have an eating disorder and honestly it's EXTREMELY similar imo (or my eating disorder is just based in that and most people with EDs don't have the meatsuit dysphoria, what do I know). It wouldn't offend me at all to say it's a related condition.
@@SpecialBlanket meatsuit oh no
S. E. Z meatsuit dysphoria is what im going to call it from now on
I'm guilty of being a bit of a trans man version of Tiffany Tumbles (minus the conservatism) over the past couple of months out of fear and shame and the thought that if I'm "rational" and "self aware" and "not like them" that I might be respected. I've been realizing just how wrong I was and how I should be uplifting and standing with my trans brothers and sisters instead of trying to silently judge who's trans enough.
Oh yeah, because the KKK would welcome trans, gay, muslims, jews, or black people who speaks again the Satanic Left.
Griffin S love this
so u have realized the dilemna.......... trans men just go full transmed conservative a lot and its rough. they just project their internalized hatred and fear on young trans kids and call us "aidens" like buddy 1. thas a whole name and 2. u r one of us
FUCK rationality
lets get WEIRD WITH IT
That must have been really hard! So much respect
*why am i constantly surrounded by homosexuals?*
hard relate jackie
Better question, why am I not?
Vid-szhite cause we only the 10%
Op where are they????????
It’s a joyful time
heterosexuals are NOT valid
As a transbian dating another transbian, the "calculating" part is just absolutely hilarious
@@comichb Trans lesbian, yes
I think every cis person does it when they first hear about trans people experiencing same-sex attraction, no matter how woke
Lmao, as a trans guy who's dated other trans guys before I feel that. Everyone's like .. wait so you're... gay men.... but if you *you know* is it lesbian then?? Like, no Karen.
I used to do the calculating thing. Trying to make sense of it, and then I realized how I felt.
yeah i can’t wait to tell people that i (a transmasc) am dating a trans girl lmao
That drunken emotional breakdown scene was really hard to watch. A while back, my girlfriend had that mindset stretched out for over a year. It would come in waves. Sometimes she was okay and we could socialize outside. Other times, she couldn't get out of bed and would say the exact same thing Tiffany was saying. I couldn't do anything to help her other than hug her until she stopped crying.
Now she's moved past the severe wave of self hate, unfortunately, now I occasionally get the transman version of this...
Marshall L. Monti I hope both of you are doing alright. Hang in there, man.
Tiffany was so easy to hate but then her breakdown at the end was genuinely heartbreaking.
insanely good character writing.
R I IIIIII G H T!!?!!
16:41 This scene with her crying is absolutely heartbreaking. I know your main method of argument/persuasion involves a lot of humor and logic but I really appreciate the time you took to appeal to raw pathos. Sometimes straightforward empathy is incredibly convincing to people who lack an understanding. It's a really sad and beautiful scene that speaks to something more universally human and that has to be applauded.
arqueotm well said... Hear here
Oh cmon! It's totally staged.
@@Kazilikaya Yeah? No shit?
@@Kazilikaya REALLY!??!??! I THOUGHT IT WAS FOR REAL
Kazilikaya Someone missed the whole point of the video.
Tiffany's breakdown scene brings back nightmares of over thirty years ago. When, after eight hours struggling to cope as a TS in an ultra conservative multi national, I would arrive back to my flat and cry. When your best (and only) friend was a bottle, and thoughts of the battles to be fought all over again tomorrow became overwhelming. Tiff's anguished , "I wish I was a woman", tore my heart out. It was so devastating to realise you had given it your best shot, and it would never be quite as good as the "real thing". Such a great example of art imitating life.
💔💔💔
It's been a year i know but are you ok?
@@m.letizia5821 I can only echo Tiffany, and say, "I'm fine". But thankyou so much for asking, it was very thoughtful.
@@jeanette5457 I'm going to be honest i was kind of expecting the worst when I read the comment,it's fairly relieving to see that you responded,have a great day!
Hi, how are you doing rn?
I've been partially raised by my aunt who's a tran woman. It was in the 80's, the esthetic chirirgie wasn't like today and she spent so much money on silly me...
She was spending so much time on make up, complaining, crying sometimes, trying to fix whatever she was seeing in that godam mirror... And i thought she was just wonderful and back in my room i was wearing her shoos and her skirt (it was a dress for me) only because i wanted to be just like her when i grow up. I wish she saw her like i saw her...
I'm sad for your aunt, but I'm glad that you had someone to look up to!
I’m crying
:'(
AHH THIS HURTS, MY TEARS.
Awwww, thats so sweet and sad 😟
I love Tiffany Tumbles. Been following her for a really long time and she's finally convinced me to change my opinions.
You'd kill Rubin. Literally and prestigiously.
What happened to true tea??? :(
bakkunt If you want to keep up with what's Kat been doing lately, go to her other channel where she does live streams. They're really fun!
+Kat Blaque Your own record in the area of changing opinions is nothing to be sneezed at.
peach thanks ☺️
if only the real rubin report was this entertaining lmao
The ones with two or more guests are
The interveiws seem like the guest is talking to a mirror because dave just agreed with whatever they say
Lmao
It's more entertaining
my favorite moment is when Adria defends Tiffany bc she "has to work really hard to be seen as female". As a girl's girl, i totally relate to that. I will defend my fellow femmes to the end even if they had been so nasty towards me
💯
7:38 I Protest. As a biochemist, I am, in fact, attracted to molecular biology
+
Analyze me daddi 😏😏😏😳😳😳😜😜😜😜😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩
@@absenteechild8542 god you are so cursed
Getting turned on by XX XY punnet squares
u freacc
Kind of ironic and emotionally devastating how much Tiffany Tumbles was correct about how people turn on you. Sorry again, the canceling video hit hard.
exactly what I was thinking- this hits very different after her recent video. It's kind of devastating for the left and everything we are standing for, and it just gives the extreme right ammunition to continue ridiculing "snowflakes" and "anti-free speech" warriors :(
it demonstrates almost perfectly, though, how well thought out and analytical these videos really are. These fictional debates aren't just straw man arguments she is taking down. Natalie clearly reads as much as possible into both sides and understands the genuine concerns of the individuals.
@@laurenlizzbeth she reads a lot into both sides and thought she understood the genuine concerns of the individuals. It's easy to read the words and understand what they are saying on a superficial level and think that you are being sympathetic, but until you can actually empathize with someone it's hard to actually understand the full implications they are trying to convey when they express their views. I think Natalie truly understands now.
Tl;dr a book is not a shoe.
@@juliawilliams1355 What you are saying is true, but I don't think that Natalie understands it in an especially new way now. As mentionned in the "Cancelling" video, she had been cancelled before, and especially at a time when she couldn't rely as much on irl friends, and was much more dependent on the leftist and trans community. So if I'm not mistaken she's already saying that from experience here.
@@ellawelly it makes me sad because i'm left and always have been, but because the right is so ready to jump on examples of "snowflakes" and "anti-free speech" warriors, like you said, I am always hesitant to critique the extreme/unreasonable aspects of the left because I don't want to be seen as part of the right. for example, when Nat was cancelled, anyone who was hesitant about her cancellation/critical of those that cancelled her was immediately labeled as bigoted and transphobic, even though they were not. sometimes it feels like the most extreme on the left have taken "the left" for themselves, and they consider anyone who slightly disagrees with them as part of the right.
sorry this comment is a mess lol, i'm just confused and overwhelmed and idk how to feel.
That was hard to watch in a good way.
I have much empathy with "tiffany's" who understandably want to pass as what society deems to be female. The enforcement of this narrow view of womanhood however can increase their feeling of not "belonging". Its an evil cycle really, if you don't pass "in the now" you will not be percieved as a woman, but by "passing in the now" you're reinforcing the narrow perception of what womanhood is thereby increasing your dysphoria. Its a really hard subject but you tackled it perfectly.
For you maybe, my eyes melted from cringe, just like with the „debating nazis“ one.
I loved the style and content of both, but having to hear an imitation of those 'conservative’ shitheads is almost as bad as the real thing.
Please end me.
Rasmp Well said. It makes me want to just hug everyone and be like, “Being a woman can really suck.”
Rasmp Good comment!
you tweeted the exact same comment wow you must really have something to say
passing does not reinforce a perception of womanhood. the actions of an individual do not always have some overarching political implication. people that pass are doing it because they can. there are very few (read: zero) binary trans women that CAN pass but choose not to. that is the point of alleviating dysphoria.
For me, Tiffany Tumbles is one of the most important characters ever written because she allowed me to understand and empathise with transmedicalists and the like in a way most spaces on the internet discourage, and also this character helped me to recognise my own behaviours and thought patterns that are similar to Tiffany’s in regard to other trans people, giving me the space to reflect on where these thoughts came from so I can deconstruct them without sinking into self hatred for having them at all. Thank you so much Natalie fr fr
It would be a huge mistake to render all transmedicalists with the caricatured paintbrush of TT.
While empathy and understanding is one thing, at the end of the day they are still gatekeeping what trans is and that’s wrong
@@Kelis98 you can have empathy for people and still think they are wrong. Of course, some cases notwithstanding, but when it's a marginalised group that is often scarred by layers and layers of trauma arguing inside itself, I think sometimes it's good to wave a little olive branch between us and remember they are not inhumane dickheads
They are wrong, but they are also suffering as we all are-more or less, suffering is pain regardless
“I wish I were a woman, or anything but this.” God damn if I don’t end up saying that at the end of every day. I need a hug
I can't say why, but in spite of the fact that coming out at 35 seems to make my life so difficult, I feel as if I would be destroying something valuable if I were to somehow become something or someone else.
*Hugs*
*More Hugs*
Even more hugs from me :3
HUGS BABY HUGS!!
Actually, you looked really pretty as Adria...
I think that was on purpose. It's cool that Natalie has become confident enough to see herself as beautiful even when she isn't all glammed out
I actually have a crush now..
Adria is definitely my type lol
@@AnneH1021 Same.
@@AnneH1021 Agreed. The super glam straight girl thing isn't my bag. Long/fake, decorative nails especially. Give me the au naturel Adria over the overdone Tiffany any day of the week!
I am a trans woman. I don't have "the surgery" but I am on hormones. Fortunately I have very feminine features so I dont need work but .... that came with a price I suppose.. bullying. I come from a very conservative place, homosexuality was taboo and god forbid you were trans cause to the mental asylum you go. That being said I mentioned that I have very feminine features ... well that paired with long hair makes you look like a girl, *and I loved it* . I loved every minute of someone not knowing me and saying *you're welcome young lady* or *such a pretty girl* . Well .... it didnt go as well for people who knew me. They bullied me and bullied until I broke. I didnt want to live, I didnt want to see . I just wanted to be anything else then what I was. I always questioned that if this god of theirs is so kind why is he making me go through this. One day when I hit 16 , they cut all my hair. It was the only thing that made me happy and I lost it. I just entered the worst time of my life. So when she said that she would want to be anything but this it really hit home. I didnt have such a bad break down for a long time.
Now things are going smoothly , I don't get clocked boots the house down mama yes GAWD, but every time I see one of my old bullies I freeze so I'm working on that. Your past videos really helped me accept myself and become who I an today.
Hope you're doing okay
I'm glad things are going smoothly. All the best
I hope you’re doing good now, wish you the best
I wish you all the good things there are! Remember, you're human and you deserve peace and respect ❤️
I hope you're doing great ❤️
You're an artist. Your story-telling ability is so freaking creative. I am so happy that I found your videos.
It's like a documentary strapped to a rollercoaster. You never know when it's going to be sad, ridiculous, hilarious, or some combination of the three.
let's keep it at 666 likes pls
I really wish, as human beings, we could get our collective shit together and stop hurting each other so much.
Me too.
really, this. like, i think it's in healthy human nature to have competition and debate, but when it goes so far as to make someone truly hate being themselves? it's unacceptable. it's like having a friendly wrestling match and breaking the other person's bones. lgbtq+ don't deserve to be hated and they don't deserve to hate themselves just on the basis of being lgbtq+. if someone's gonna hate me, i'd prefer it be because i've actually done something wrong, not just because i'm different from them.
People in my country are very conservative (probably others): glorifying war and the military, praising the "traditional life"(the life where women were slaves to men , children were abused in the name of "discipline" and gays were jailed just cuz they exist) and loving the fact that "were not like the cultural Marxists who turn their kids gay"
But... but I'm a sadist
Does anybody else get the irony of the right wing using the term "red pill" from the Matrix ???? A movie written by two trans women tha is about a white computer nerd elarning about the real word around him from a black guy and a women. This along with the numerous other hints regarding trans people in America.
This comment is actually amazing.
I've been trying to say this exact thing. Thank you for putting it together like this.
Brandon Jackson
Yes, ContraPoint brought that up in a different video.
I don't think you know what irony is
You are using logic to prove a point to bunch of people who think the earth is 5000 years old?
Sounds like deep fried ice cream to me.
GIVE ME LIKES!
'why am i constantly surrounded by homosexuals'
IM CRYING
Me at the mirror
I had to pause the video cause I was laughing so hard at that moment
My friend group though
I accidentally misread this as "Why am I always surrounded by crying homosexuals?" To which I say: same. Then I reread. I still concur, but thought this magnificent misread needed to be shared!
Dude, I still quote that regularly :)
“The world is not ready for trans lesbianism”
“Watches Shame again.”
Literally
SAME.
What is shame? Is it a series?
@@onepiecegotmeinlove691 it's one of Contra's more recent videos, about being a trans lesbian
@@MissPoplarLeaf oh, I did watch it. I just didn’t know that they were referring to he video (was kinda hoping it was a series lol) anyways thank you ✨
Ouch. I think you gave me a painful glimpse into a world I never imagined and probably will never be capable of imagining.
same here
I legit was in tears at the self-doubt part, it hit me hard knowing there’s so many people out there going through that same psychological torment.
I was also laughing though because that music was so expertly used there.
15:01 Oh my God, she called her a "hon", after watching Natalie's video on Incels I now get what she meant by that
Right???? I think that in order to understand in detail every video of her you have to watch them all
contrapoints extended universe
@Fucker Carlson UNDERRATED COMMENT
Consider too that this video was uploaded around the time that Natalie said she stopped visiting 4chan's /lgbt/ board. The thoughts of how people handle themselves there is probably fresh on her mind.
Trans guy here, knowing deep internet trans stuff is hard, contra keeps it real for those of us who haven't been on 4chan or susan's place for 9 years straight.
At trans pride in Brighton (UK) yesterday. Saw a sign with the words "why is nobody talking about the mouthfeel?" Girl, you're a meme now.
😂😂😂 awesome
Mark Donald wtf are you talking about lmao
It's everywhere now
@Mark Donald " thank God the kids don't have Internet access and can't look it up!"
They can also just look up porn, its the parents job to moderate internet activity and a sign is the least of the problems. Also the sexualisation of children? What the fuck? Don't pull out the Desmondisamazing bullshit because everyone agrees that's bad.
@Mark Donald are you emulating Tiffany from the video above? :)
I also really love the exchange at 11:22 when Tiffany feels gorgeous, and bases her confidence in her looks to put down Adria and her right to existence when she wants to silence her in order to make trans women (and herself, primarily), more palatable to cisgender people. But this is immediately met by opposition by Jackie, who feels threatened by Tiffany's confidence and beauty. By calling her a hairless sextoy, Jackie invokes a (bad) feminist argument that trans women are inauthentic in their presentation of women because they enforce harmful notions of femininity. It's just a really interesting take on how women feel threatened by each other and how we tear each other down. Jackie and Tiffany would probably be at each other's throats all day, with Tiffany acting meekly to Jackie, but tearing down Adria as much as possible to win Jackie's approval. It's just such an interesting moment in this whole video!
*- motorboats boaty -* I love your username xD
Thank you for the distinction between bad feminism and more conscious, nuanced feminism. The struggle continues.
that part made me cringe because i have totally thought that before "my nose is big, what's wrong with a big nose?!" ... it's so easy to fall into that trap of letting your personal insecurities dominate everything and ignore the bigger picture
Oh thanks for that explanation, I was really confused about what that whole beat was about.
It was probably my favorite moment
I will never forgive twitter for making me not want to watch your videos. For so long when they came up in my recommended I thought you were an alt right transphobe because of what I saw on twitter and I didnt want any part in it. Then I decided to watch the cancelling video one day and I'm so glad I did. Watching your videos has made me realise how dangerous leftist online circles can be, and also makes me think I should tru and be a bit more understanding to my fellow LGBTQ+ siblings who fall down the path tiffany tumbles fell down.
Yeah, she's definitely not an alt right person or anything like that. The worst accusations based in anything she got were being a truscum (which is disputable given her history defending nb people and disputing transmedicalism), anything else was just misinformation
I think this is a big issue of the left, they really reduce people too much. It's why I *kept* watching Blaire White after everyone was calling her a transphobe; because there are SO MANY times where they just mischaracterize people based on one (1) mistake they made of for maybe some beliefs they don't necessarily believe in. What's worse is that many of these types of people desperately try to paint them as some kind of evil to make you want to avoid engaging with them, instead of just saying they dont like them and leaving it as that.
Back to the Blaire thing, I thought they were just overreacting and mischaracterizing someone again- but they weren't. The problem isn't that they were right, it's the fact that they basically become "the boy who cried wolf" when they try to vehemently cancel anyone without actually looking beyond the surface level of controversy.
@@phibie8853 Your argument here is a lot easier to make when you group everyone on the left together lol
Maybe if rather than not trusting literally anyone under the MASSIVE and incrediblyvague banner of "the left" you trusted certain reputable people and distrusted others, your problem might be solved
@@NZsaltz ok, I know the left isnt just one entity, and I could have worded that better. when I generalized, I did just mean the certain people on the left who call people out like it's their jobs (specifically those who react without the full picture even being out yet.) I mostly saw Blaire being called a transphobe on Twitter before I stopped watching her, and all of that was just unconvincing to me given how often cancelling is just done out of disliking a person and wanting others to dislike them too.
So insane considering her videos literally took off based on her ones about decrypting alt right language, and the modern left, and deconstructing stupid ideology about pronouns and even the idea of a “transtrender”
“Oh my god, I need to not be around straight people for a long time after this.”
Feels
I feel like this every single day.
I love the way you humanize all your characters, and give all your characters flaws. My favorite part is the part towards the end where Tiffany kinda tries to reach out to Adria, almost for sympathy, but Adria scares her off. Even though the temptation is strong to see Tiffany as the bad one because she's obviously wrong about a lot of things, that interaction highlights the responsibility we leftists bear in driving vulnerable people away from us, and how hard it is, but how important it is, to meet people where they're at, and with compassion.
Somebody in the comments linked the debate you had last year with Blaire White (who I hadn't heard of before) and I watched the whole thing, and as a 3rd party it touched me because it really seemed to be a situation where you had two basically decent, sensitive people struggling to get into each others' vocabularies and still get their basic needs met, ending in a sort of tragic stalemate because each could only hear attacks in the words the other perceived as "normal."
I think your ability to empathize with and in a way _become_ the Tiffanies of the world is what makes you so uniquely good at elucidating concepts at the heart of leftist praxis. It makes you a gifted teacher and even a gifted leader (don't know if you think of yourself as a leader but I would say you are).
"Even though the temptation is strong to see Tiffany as the bad one because she's obviously wrong about a lot of things, that interaction highlights the responsibility we leftists bear in driving vulnerable people away from us"
That's a risk, sure, but I wouldn't call that a responsibility by any means. Trying to be open in a moment like that means being vulnerable, even if it's just for a moment. Not everyone can do that, especially when so many discussions these days don't go anywhere productive (on the internet, for example). Sometimes it just ends with the other person insulting you and not relenting. If it gets to a point where someone needs to choose between their mental health and reaching out to others, there's no objectively better choice, no responsible choice, just whatever choice is best for that person.
ThatBoringOne I agree with that! At least on an individual level; I was speaking about leftists more on a movement-wide level, that’s where the “responsibility” can be articulated as such, a strategic imperative. Also, to clarify, I definitely wouldn’t include “internet discourse” as an example of a place or time when meeting people where they’re at is particularly feasible. I’m more talking about when we encounter people in real life, as in family or friend circles, and can offer actual heart-to-hearts - our ability to influence strangers, positively or negatively, even in person, is limited.
But then that’s why using media as a tool is so great, because you can send really in-depth, intimate messages out to people, even strangers, without it taking the same toll that it would to meet them like that in real life.
I was praising Natalie on what makes her approach unique, powerful, and inspiring.
Well, except for Freya, but maybe it's for the best, not trying to humanize the Nazi character that is.
I don't comment much on RUclips, because I've hit the point of middle age where I'm smart enough to know even I don't care much what I think. That said, you're an extraordinary person, and an incredibly talented creator. I've watched thousands of videos here over the years, and this one occupies a stratosphere of its own.
Extraordinary work. Truly.
this comment has bde
Fuck You XD
I love reading people's comments and input. Your comment brings more depth to an already deep conversation. Your opinion on this video is just as important as the making of it.
mmmmmm 666 likes
The Existential Horror of Blaire White
Hello Aichi.
Seriously. Her videos depress me with how mean and toxic they are.
@@fhh4000 you don't want to know.
@@fhh4000 you're lucky if you dont know. She's a Republican trans girl who goes around criticizing other trans girls for not passing as well as her as well as defend very transphobic behavior from celebrities like JK Rowling. She sets up random trans people to vilify them as horrible people with misleading information, launching attack campaigns. She's sooo toxic. Ugh
@@fhh4000 As if its only transphobia when *they* do it. Grow up.
"I'm a woman and I like women."
"I dunno about that. Sounds debatable!"
👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌
This is the birth of the Natalie Wynn cinematic universe, isn't it?
Few episodes back, actually.
Here for it!!!
It’s just blaire white and Riley Dennis though
Tabby...I dont feel so good
@@kendomyers ^^
"why am I constantly surrounded by homosexuals" why was this so funny
also nice vids
Her drunk hatred of everything is under-appreciated. She's the only "normal woman" character Natalie portrays and yet she's so shallow and stupid without being a trope. Fantastic
I really respect how you make Tiffany pitiable rather than just unlikable. I rarely want to give people like her a big hug and tell them that I accept them, and if the world doesn't, the world is wrong.
Guess I should try and foster that more.
Hey. Please keep up the good work. I am a straight guy who grew up in a super homophobic environment and getting over that shit has taken me years. You are doing good work there. I don't know you personally but I love what you are doing and this video is really powerful. I love your videos and your political content but there's a lot more substance in the humanity of your message. hope I can bring encouragement somehow. Blessings.
Daniel Alveo While I can't say it took me too long to get over homophobia, I can relate somewhat coming from a sorta homophobic family and going to religious schooling through 11th grade. I adapted quick but I was also left very naive. I'm still learning about LGBTQ stuff, even despite falling under that umbrella myself.
ContraPoints, I just want to say thank you. About 9 months ago (Fall 2017) I found your channel, and it really played a role in coming up from the rabbit hole. I had been a passive follower of what became the alt-right, passive in that I consumed the media, and got into the online arguments with people about all the political issues. After the election I was shocked. I had assumed that giving Trump the benefit of the doubt would be a harmless activity, that there was no way he'd actually win. I wasn't a full on supporter, mind you, but I had fallen more on the center right spectrum, inching very closely to a very ugly group. After he won I was in shock, it really was a slap to the face that America really hadn't evolved past things. I spent the next few months trying to reconcile everything. I had connected with some more progressive media channels, but it was your channel that really pulled me back into thinking. I just wanted to give this brief summary so you know that what you are doing works. I used to watch the two channels you were referencing and many worse. Seeing you present them in your style really made me reflect on my thoughts and the role your style of content played in coming back from a strange place. So, Thank You.
Never stop learning and growing, we all have a lifetime to work on, Contra probably won't read either of these comments, but her work has also been eye-opening to me and thanks Douglas for sharing and try to make a difference in the future.
=8)-DX
I'm glad you are on the side of these degenerates now fatass, you'd make a terrible man. (Jk)
Natalie, I love that you close it with an illustration of Tiffany’s makeup process. It shows the extent to which you go to pass, even in your own videos. I’m sorry this bullshit is such bullshit. Thank you for your performances, because they’re really helping all of us. They’re amazing.
That was goddamn genius. Her videos just keep getting better. It's like, oh hey do you think Tiffany is a bitch? Well, this is what I actually have to do every day to feel like a woman. So many layers of makeup, so many layers to human beings
@@ay.w.1758 that's the point tho. a lot of women, trans and cis, are putting in that much effort to feel/be seen as beautiful or as women period
@@ay.w.1758 and what _I'm_ saying is it's still absurd and crazy and Herculean amounts of effort, and it's a shame women feel pressured to do all that just to be accepted, even if many/most women do it
@@ay.w.1758 I think more could be said to the self-loathing crisis Tiffany suffered right before she got up and made another day playing the part.
The issue is Tiffany inwardly hates herself. She has taken all the things said about her as truth, and moves forward with her life with this internalized loathing. Even so, Tiffany goes right back to it the next morning like nothing. Continuing the cycle of self loathing, wearing her makeup not in celebration of her female self, but as a mask for her deep shame, so the masked persona she adopts can make it through the day.
The issue isn't the makeup. It's why she wears it. And it's sad and tragic, and would be more so if Tiffany were not so damaging to others going through that same struggle.
@@ay.w.1758 If this were a problem of simply feminine makeup I wouldn't bother. Your being a linguist is great, congratulations on the study. I recognize that not everyone would put in the effort, and that does offer you the ability to understand things better than some who have not had this study. Even so, I don't think the issue of linguistics enters this discussion.
The issue that Tiffany has isn't that she does her makeup. Tiffany does it at the beginning of the video and is even able to add commentary, and power through some of the more stressful and possibly humiliating aspects, such as getting her eye glued shut. If anything what she does at the beginning required more effort than the second part. That she does her makeup the day after her breakdown isn't Herculean. It's her norm. She pulls off her routine with no issues at all and if anything, she makes it appear mundane.
The point of the scene, especially that ending shot, has nothing to do with comparing the effort to cis women. It speaks solely to a pain that only trans women experience, and the issue of it following applying makeup is only tangentially related to something cis women do. The subject is how some trans people percieve themselves in context to society as a whole.
It has everything to do with the tragedy that at the end, Tiffany does not see herself as beautiful despite her makeup, which is a lengthy process that she does daily and is a part of her life. She will never be beautiful, according to herself. She never can, because she has taken the rhetoric of hate and internalized it. No amount of mastery of makeup will help heal that wound, and in fact it will fester and worsen. Tiffany sees herself as mutilated, and wants to be anything but herself. Cis women have their own pain and suffering when it comes to being seen as beautiful, and I am not challenging that. I am challenging that you think that the scene is insulting to you because makeup is nothing to you. It's another day in the life and it's a nonissue.
However as a cis woman you won't ever experience being seen as a man wearing makeup. You won't ever know the pain and humiliation of wanting to be seen as a woman, and not only being told you're failing at it, but that you're being ridiculous or even mentally ill for trying. That is the tragedy, that Tiffany has embraced the slurs and insults as a necessary part of the trans experience, and thinks she has the right of it. She thinks those advocating for change from the detractors are wrong. It hurts her deeply, and even then she self reinforces the hate by saying she isn't a victim. The makeup is a plot point. The issue is the internalized hate, the ache no makeup will ever soothe even if it is covered up.
The worst part is, Tiffany takes that pain and uses it to inflict the same wound on other trans women, who see what she is doing but do not see her pain and suffering. She suffers alone because admitting to it would be to stand against what she thinks is right, to play as much into mainstream appeal as possible, to gain acceptance from those who hate her, not to demand change and reform.
the quote “it’s not the straightest thing is it” was said a year before blaire ever said it and natalie got it absolutely spot on. word. for. word.
Omg she also said it in her super straight video.
This is Bojack level depressing
I recently came out to a close friend and caught myself saying "I was worried you'd think I'd go nuts about pronouns all day". That sentence made me stop and rethink what i was saying. I was still relieved when he reacted by saying that how I define myself doesn't change a thing and I can tell he was speaking the truth from the way he's treated me since then. But this internalized fear of coming across as annoying or overly sensitive when I actually feel that using someone's correct pronouns is the right and polite thing to do was something I was completely unaware of until this very moment. Thinking I have to be an "easy to chew flavour of trans" that isn't upsetting the less tolerant individuals among cis people is definitely highly toxic. And yet it's really hard to shake off, I still feel a clump in my throat when I want to tell people to use the name Alexis rather than my dead name. I know it's my right to do so, and yet the fear of being labelled as annoying and a snowflake is very real.
holy fuck I feel this
I came out a few months ago & I'm still kindasorta here & I really hate that I'm constantly apologizing any time I end up in a conversation about my transness, or I feel bad when my partner corrects himself on my pronouns [since he's the only one actively gendering me correctly]. I feel like an enormous hassle & imposition & it's so dumb that I feel that way. I've only come out to a couple close friends & haven't touched social media since well before I came out & I'm definitely not going back until I can sort through this shit because IDK how I'm gonna survive even benign ignorance when I still have so much internalized transphobia left in me.
It doesn’t sound like you were worried about being rude and pushy to some of the less tolerant cis people, it sounds like you were worried about being rude and pushy to someone you knew supported you in your transition.
I don’t think there was anything wrong with what you said.
i find it really interesting how tiffany, despite being the one most eager to appease jackie, actually ended up not being invited back to the show. even though she was trying so hard, the behavior motivated by her desire to please ended up being a huge turn off--preventing her from reaching her goal.
Wellp, she was invited back at the transtrender video so Jackie was not serious :)
@@VillagerCometh She was definitely serious, they probably just couldn't get blaire
After seeing Contra's recent coming out video on dealing with shame for being a trans lesbian...how people treated the culture and how it's even affected her personal relationships, this video feels very Freudian...and it hurts. Contra, I hope you can find joy and solace in life. I can't imagine what the struggle of being trans must feel like. :
It was really hard for me to watch this video the first time. It was a few months ago and I had been really smug and thought I knew it all. I thought I was the rational trans guy who wasn't one of those crazy SJW types. When I saw this video though, it really struck a chord somewhere. I saw myself in Tiffany and it made me... Sad. It was hard to take that look at myself, in a way, and to see someone else act out how I had felt so many times before. I had started to reconsider what I thought I had known. While I still catch myself thinking "oh great, this person is going to make us look bad again," I have tried to be better. Thank you for this video. It really helped open my eyes and get me out of the truscum community.
hey so fellow trans guy here who's also a fan of contrapoints but there's still only two genders and both the truscum and tucute communities have problems
@@nicolasnamed Alright so where do you get off with sayin that? Does it make you feel good, better about yourself? Like... C'mon man.
@@sheebiedeebie just giving you the facts my man. Contrapoints isn't right about everything.
@@nicolasnamed I'm not saying she is, but neither are you. What my point was was why did you feel the need to comment that? "Just givin you the facts" is so fuckin douchey, dude. Don't be an ass. Its uncalled for.
that exactly happened to me. kalvin garrah. miss london. storm ryan. blaire white. the works right? you think youve ascended. you think youve broken free of those fucking annoying sjws. youre a normal, logical trans person. but it all comes crashing down on you eventually. and you realize kalvin garrahs retoric- its all just a self defense mechanism instilled to distance himself from transphobia. its exactly the same thing as "not being like those other girls".
Only seven minutes in and this video is already legendary in how true it is.
Wow, you watch Contrapoints?
The Effeminate Degenerate he's a comrade. He's a left libertarian.
Amazing, now I love him even more.
omg tigerstar I had no idea u were into contra! Thank god, so many fucking people in the youtube history scene (which i still love) fall into the kind of gamer reactionary ideology which is just the worst. Thank you so much for not falling in with them!
He said once that he considers Regan one of the worst presidents in history. I'm not surprised at all
The newest member of the Contra cinematic universe
Tiffany isn't new, she was also the one that debated with Abigail in the "TERFs" video. But she's changed so much she almost look like an entire new character (but tbh so does Jackie)
Yasss, Contra's very own Expanded Universe!
Mikel Montoya I think she meant Adria
Now we need Adria and Tabby in a room.
My 2 conflicting states of being
"Why am I constantly surrounded by homosexuals?" and "I need to not be around straight people for a long time after this"
Me when I used to work in Media lol.
Anyone else wanting to see Adria and Tabby having heated discussion while making dinner and doing dishes?
Me!!!!
Natalie you look gorgeous!!!
AreTheyGay dude I love seeing you in the comments of natalie's videos! love your stuff!
Three Ninja Ducks Doesn't matter regardless.
Three Ninja Ducks it's June we're all gay
You mean Tiffany?
AreTheyGay ruclips.net/video/gcZJ7s8PQvs/видео.html
" i don't know about that ....sounds *debatable* "
The part when Tiffany was crying and hating herself hit me so fucking hard as a trans man. I related to it a lot (obviously the part about wanting to be a woman is the other way around but you get the idea).
Same
Same. Pulls on your heartstrings, don't it?
You're a man. Maybe even with a course, rough, gets everywhere man dik
same and with her also saying "i'm not delusional" cause sometimes I just wonder if maybe I am.
Same
I feel for Tiffany as a Transman. Everything she said about being accepted was exactly how a felt, even down to her views. I felt like I had to do all of that to be accepted and its exhausting. A month ago I finally broke down and said those words "I just want to be a guy, I just want to be normal, I don't want this." In context, a transphobe just my guild in WoW and I had to continue my mask of "Im not like one of those other transpeople. Nothing offends me." This guy called me out in front of the entire guild, refusing to call me Alec or he. Saying its he's believe and "I shouldn't be attacked for calling a girl a girl" No one would come to my aid, because no one saw this as an attack. I eventually went to an officer and he had the nicest thing I have ever heard "Someone says happy Hanukkah to me it isn't going to kill me to say it back just because i don't celebrate that holiday thats what I don't understand. I wont pretend like I understand all of it. There is no way I could. But I try. It isn't hard and anyone who cares about it enough to voice an opinion like that isn't worth my time or yours. I can't change other peoples beliefs or opinions but I do know that whatever you believe it should not affect how you treat other people and if he treats people like that it is his attitude and personality not his beliefs to blame" I had never had someone that understood, I felt so stupid because I cried. I had someone who fully understood me without me having to bend over backwards to show I'm normal. This guy was kicked after one more comment.
This story had a happier ending than I was expecting. I can't imagine what its like to be you and I'll probably never understand it fully, but while I'm sure you've had to deal with a lot of assholes in your life, there are people out there like your guild officer and I hope like me who try to stand up for people even if we don't quite understand it. I know I just want to live my life and be me, and being me is pretty easy, nobody ever questions my identity or what I want to do with my life and yet life can still be hard, I still have bad days, and I still feel like I need to be a certain way and accomplish certain things to be acceptable. Everyone should be able to be true to themselves and live life how they want to live and not be made to feel different or lesser for it, I can only imagine the pressure of dealing with all of that before you even get to the baseline day-to-day grind that is hard enough as it is.
As someone who's still in the coming out process and seriously afraid of insisting on people using my name instead of my dead name... thank you for this comment.
@@Itri_Vega it’s not easy, but you’ll find your group of people who will support you. Validate you every day. and these people will defend your identity to the death to anyone who tries to invalidate you. It won’t be so hard after that :)
"you're not Blaire White" lol, shots fired
i finally had the time to sit down and watch this and it did NOT disappoint
“have you ever considered that transphobia... is racist?” I choked
Me too, but everything Adria said afterward was so right that I’m concerned that I might have been wrong to completely write off that line as ridiculous
TheWizardOfOsborne "transphobia is racist" is a maaaaaassive oversimplification but things like "saying there are only two genders or that transness is new indicates an ignorance of non-white cultures that have had more than two genders for hundreds of years" is an actually fair point
The line sounded like something you'd say at the start of a video to get people's attention so maybe that's where she was going
I've been off Tumblr for a couple years now, but man, that line brought me right back.
Some white cultures also have had more than 2 genders for thousands of years and plenty of non-white cultures only see 2 genders or see more genders but only see them as outsiders and rejects, not every thing bad has to be racist.
I was not ready for that breakdown scene. That felt way too real and way too much like a flashback. I want everyone here to know that it's okay to be trans. I am, too. You all deserve to be happy and safe and feel loved. Natalie, I hope you are doing okay and thank you for all of your videos.
The "I'm so discusting" scene its suuper strong, I wanted to cry with her. I'm really impressed. Congratulations, I think its the first time I get sad and shocked watching one of your videos.
Asteroide same. 🙁 I had to stop during that part, and I’ve never had to struggle with issues of gender dysmorphia and the like. The self-loathing alone felt too real and tangible and it’s painful to continue watching.
I've always been supportive of trans people, but as a cis person I've never understood the sheer amount of mental hurdles you have to go through until I watched this video. Her saying she mutilated her body and she just wishes she were female broke my heart. I never really understood until i saw a slice of what it must be like.
Edit: I'm enby now lol... I've been transed they got me
I genuinely started crying. I have hard enough time being a bio lady lol - I can’t imagine the added stress here.
I've heard before that the suicide rate amongst trans teens is very high but only after watching this video (and others of Natalie) I began to understand this fact
I got transed when i started watching contrapoints and listening to trans artists. i am now enby lmaooo
egg moment lol
the edit LMFAOOOO WHAT A MOOD
I don’t personally suffer from any sort of gender dysphoria yet have found so much solace in watching your videos. First of all they have really helped me learn about the issues faced by trans women and men, which is helpful because two people very close to me are transgender, but on a more selfish level I just find your videos are oddly comforting and really capture the horrors of being human and make me feel not so alone or crazy throughout harrowing depression and crippling anxiety
Neither do I, and am straight, but like you, I also appreciate some of the videos. I'm not sure there is a label or category for it, but for a long time, I've felt like a blend/synthesis of male and female within one--but just in a consciousness and psychological way, not physically or sexually. I've dressed up a few times for Halloween, and it was fun/enjoyable, but don't feel a strong or constant need to do same.
Strange as it may sound, for some, it is really hard to experience being human and for others not so much. I have ideas and hypotheses about that based on some experiences, but this is largely a rather intellect and left brain oriented crowd, so I'll keep it to self. But suffice it to say--whatever the cause(s), it does happen, and I particularly understand that as I often felt like an ET dropped off here from somewhere VERY different. Which is interesting since around ages 4 to 5, I would have a repeating dream about being on a spaceship traveling from somewhere very far away to here.
This is the quintessential Contrapoints masterpiece, I still think this is her best video
i only just discovered it, and i think i agree
As a Trans Woman, 10 years after transition, I would have to say this is a great video. Lots for people to contemplate.
Mostly, I saw myself at various points in my life. The activism, the alcoholism, and the self loathing. I think you've been honest about what is going on in our heads, Natalie, as we try to navigate through society as the people we see ourselves as, mainly Women. But, also feeling outside of the binary of Man and Woman at times. Although, most of us are loathe to say so, myself included, I feel we are different than natal Men or Women. I know, I know, it doesn't help the cause. But we can talk to each other about it, can't we?
Internally, from my point of view, I wasn't raised as a boy, I was raised as a Trans kid. Very scared and messed up. Spending nearly a year of my young life institutionalized because of depression. Not willing to tell a soul about myself, until I opened up to my then wife(1999ish), then I couldn't get the genie back in the bottle, so I hit the bottle. Until, of course, I crashed and had to deal with it. Or die. So I transitioned got divorced, but stayed friends, only to watch her die of cancer (2008). Meanwhile, I met my current partner, who I am still with. The good, the bad, the old, and the new, all happening at the same time. It's kinda boring now, but I'm getting used to it. Life isn't perfect, but it isn't as chaotic either.
All of this leading to me today. 55 years old with a girlfriend, also trans (yea!), of 14 years. I look back and it all could have ended up very badly, on many an occasion. But, it didn't and I'm still here, so I can watch something like this video. I'm glad I made it, and not to sound corny, but YOU CAN TOO. If I could give you any advice, don't be Tiffany. Not everyone is going to like you. Fuck'em! Find the people that do like you, for being you, and stay with them.
Great job as always Natalie. It's great to see you grow and change. So far, you're doing great. Keep the videos coming. Can't wait to talk about this with my partner later. Cheers from the Badgerland.
I don't know you of course, but I'm glad you made it too. Thanks for not giving up. It's a real blessing to us all when someone passes through their hells and comes out the other side.
Caturday Nite Badgerland?
Wisconsin = Badgerland
Well, we're all part cat around here. Nobody is happier that I made it than I am. Thanks for the thumbs!!
The picture is of our cat. His name is Boy-boi. He likes to eat your hand and get lots of loving. He's is four years old and a rescue, as is his sister, Girl-grrl.
I love it when Nathalie goes full satire savage.
"Yeah, Adria, she identifies as a trap." "Well, she's in the sunken place." OH SNAP. That's both hilarious and very insulting.
stealthis and then there was “and none’s gonna be trapped by you”
It was patronizing.
"I want to be a woman! Or anything but this..."
That line makes me tear up every time. Is that what dysphoria's like?
For me, sometimes it is. My dysphoria kind of ebbs and flows in cycles.
Gender Dysphoria differs from person to person so I can only give my viewpoint
I've definitely had those moments. Everyone's dysphoria is different so idk if this is a pattern among trans people or just a specific pathology that me and tiffany share, but I definitely catch myself wishing I was pretty much anything else. Cis man, cis woman, hell, I'd take non-binary, I just hate that I ended up as a binary trans woman.
And I also catch myself much too often having thoughts like "if I was a girl-" and lately I've been catching myself and making sure I stop that thought right there because I am a girl and it really sucks that my brain still has so much internalized transphobia to the point where I just hate myself for being trans even though I also fully understand my gender and am very secure in it.
mix of dysphoria and internalized transphobia, the most virulent kind.
This went from funny to sad fast.
Mhmm, there were definitely feelz inside these realz
Seriously
A good reminder that there are people on the other side of the monitor, even stupid bigots (just not nazi-enabling liberals, die in a fire!)
Brent Cameon - That parenthetical was a joke, right? It's so hard to tell these days.
I hope it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't.
"[I wish I was] anything but this. I am destroying my body. Who could ever love this? I am just mutilating myself. It is so disgusting. God, I am so disgusting. I am so disgusting." That hit me right in the face :'(
me too
That's what I feel like on a daily basisssss
Me too...
Angela Schuster oof i have an ed i relate.
LJ wright It’s NOT true! I don’t think trans women are disgusting!
" I actually happen to identify as a trap." never gets old.
I'm not trans but the "I'm so disgusting" thing hit me hard.
*wHy iS nO ONE taLKIng aBout tHE fEmiNINE peNIS*
ThomasIsTrash wHy IS n0 oNe TalkInG aBout tHe MOuTh fEEl!!
the feminine penis? the feminine penis! we need to talk more about the feminine penis.
moooooouuuuuuuth feeeeeeeel
@@bigboss3051 I feel like Big Boss is too secure in himself for this petty nonsense. Even Venom, the hollowed-out shell of a brainwashed body double, wouldn't stoop to such.
Snake. You stink.
That mouthfeel...
Magical. This is one of your most emotional and poignant videos ever. Also, Adria is hot as hell. I have a lot to think about.
hi gwen!
BIG agree
She has to apply make up to create a fake eye over one of her eyelids because she glued it shut by accident. I thought I would help with that bit :)
Thought she said Andrea at first I was shook
I love both of you gals
Gwen 🌹
I love your channel. I'm a straight white guy and I've always hated the stupid gender stereotypes that came with that. I hated that taking a bath was considered too girly for men even though a bath at the end of a long day is literally the best thing in the world. I grew up in a house of women and I've always identified with things that women like and men like. I hate that there has to be two sides in the minds of most people. I wish we could all be people that don't attach some arbitrary action to gender identity. You're awesome. Just discovered your channel a few days ago and I've been binge watching ever since.
Saaaame. This channel makes me feel more masculine because I realized I was internalizing gender bigotry. I like chopping down trees, cuddling, and girls with combat boots. We are all just random experiences and chemicals mashed together to make a person, roles are for plays
sad how some people have to clarify they aren't girly just because they like baking or they use something other than bar soap for skin care
A bath at the end of the day is wallowing in your filth
thanks poonmasterflex
A manly bath of razor blades and Epson salt and lime juice
Btw I know this is out of context, but the person Blaire dates (fiance) Joey, said in one of her videos when she discusses if he's gay or not, that "I'm attracted to hot chicks, she is a hot chick and that's all that matters." Which I think is very nice of him, and it's a good thing because he really does care about her :)
I hope Blaire (If she is going through what Tiffany is going through) will understand that she doesn't need to try hard or anything, Joey already sees her as what she is.
I swear, Joey really seems like a really genuine and nice guy to me and I hope Blaire isn't being with him "Because he is a heterosexual looking man" or anything (;´･ω･)
some details might've lost to memory but when i remember their vid about joey reacting to her teen pictures it warms me heart, lol. some of his reactions i understand might be a little transphobic or at least seen as such, but also ... he didn't resort to calling blaire a man and he went through it.
also a lot of the pictures were just cringey as fuck (as teenage pictures/selfies tend to be) so maybe he was reacting more to that rather than seeing blaire pre-transition lol.
@Beautiful Jazz Whaaatt why is she degrading herself so much it's not even true....? I haven't watched her videos since I stopped watching so I'm definitely not up to date but damn...
Very interesting how a few years ago Contra called Blaire White a bully and questioned Blaire White's trans experience when Contra didn't identify as trans and now that Contra has gone through the experience herself, we see Contra place herself in a character similar to everything she was criticizing from Blaire White. Guess Contra gets it now that she's lived it.