Sustainable Safety in the Netherlands
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- [822] The Dutch Road Safety Policies are known under the brand name "Sustainable Safety". In this video I try to explain the main characteristics of the 3rd edition of the view. More information in the blog post: bicycledutch.wordpress.com/?p...
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I used to do road design for a small Dutch local council. Whenever there was a traffic accident, the first question was always "How can we improve the safety of that road to prevent future accidents?" Such a refreshing and sensible approach compared to many other countries.
That's not enough. That's reactive safety. Please see his video on systematic safety.
@@rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr We fully complied with Duurzaam Veilig (Sustainable Safety) but there is always space for improvement. My point is that even if an accident is caused by extremely appalling driving, a freak accident or very dickish behaviour, the authority responsible for the road should still investigate to see if there is anything that can be done to prevent a similar accident in the future. Unfortunately sometimes even the best isn't good enough. For instance: someone drunk driving in a 15 km/h residential area can still manage to wreak a lot of havoc no matter how safe the road design is, as can someone having a heart attack whilst driving. Both are real life examples. Even then though, you should still investigate. In many countries those examples would automatically be accepted as "poo happens", without any potential blame or fault on the side of the road design.
@@rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr No, it is not enough, but it is a *start*.
Crash not accident, twitter.com/search?q=%23crashnotaccident&src=typeahead_click
@@JootjeJ I wonder if there ever has been drunk driving in the NL. Everything seems calm.
Thanks to Bicycle Dutch, my verbiage when speaking urban traffic flow sound sensible here in NYC. Veel dank!
As a native Dutch I'm always amazed at how much I find Dutch street design the most logical thing in the world, yet it being anything from normal in the rest of the world.
For some countries, they are too proud and think they used to be the best meaning they don't have to change their way of doing things, hence the stagnation in renovation. For other countries, they are too discouraged and don't want to think for themselves and thus just follow whatever the superpower countries are doing (hence replicating the shithole), most of these don't know much about the Netherlands outside of tulips and windmills. I myself wouldn't know all the things about the Netherlands if I hadn't studied there by choosing a western/northern European country at random. Seriously, the Netherlands need more aggressive PR. You guys would export your culture and technologies a lot more by showing the world how you're the best at designing walkable cities. As far as I can see, you don't do anything other than contacting with the businesses at other countries, which makes the normal citizens clueless about anything Dutch, and thus they can't even vote for the politicians that want to follow your philosophies.
@@hop3106 well a couple of centuries ago us Dutchies founded two companies in order to spread Dutchess around the world. We named them the East and West indies Companies. But for some reasons the countries that we went to weren't all that happy with becoming Dutch. 🤷🏼♂️
@@XEinstein The Dutch are not unique in that regard at all... Also the French, British, Spain, Portugese, Italians, Greece, Germans, Belgians, Russians, Chinese, Danish (Vikings), Israel, etc etc. at some point in time took land that wasn't theirs with the sole reason to exploit it.
However The Dutch ARE unique when it comes to their cycling and city infrastructure.
@@hansolo2121 indeed. Our infrastructure is so good that even Darth Vader finds it 'impressive'.
it's the same in programming - there are clearly better ways to do things, but most people just don't care, don't put in the attention, succumb to what they're used to.
This is the one that needs to go viral. Every city planner around the globe can spare less than 5 minutes.
"Every city planner around the globe can spare less than 5 minutes". It's as simple as that! You are completely correct.
Everytime you make an educational video like this I send the link to the authorities here in Florida. Hopefully one day they will change. Thank you. I love your channel. Please visit Vaals in the border with Aachen, Germany. I lived in Aachen and always visited Vaals. Other one (by train) Heerlen. Also a hot spot for us because of IKEA 🤣
Thank you ! Happy new year !
What did you particularly like in Vaals and Heerlen? I'm from the area.
@@peterslegers6121 PINKPOP
Thank you very much for your latest most informative and thought provoking video.
The UK cycle network was reviewed a couple of years ago, it was found that over 40% was rated as poor with 4% classed as very poor, a lack of funding has been blamed.
As a Sustrans Volunteer I care for the local village section of cycle track in Argyll, Scotland and highlight safety issues in the general area. Typically the problems are either as a result of a lack of maintenance or questionable design which is usually down to an unwillingness to heed published guidance. I will forward a link to Xavier Brice, the chief executive of Sustrans and various others who may have an interest.
Add to that their system of redirecting cyclists away from main routes so that a cyclist route is the longest travel distance to get where you're going. Cars get to go the shortest distance. I ignore part of the so called suggested route because it adds miles uphill to boot to my commute. This suggest less busy route isn't that much reduced in business and since there's no separate bike path there's less room all around. There's a more direct route on a busy road that has some separate bike lanes though they are disjointed but both the car route and the bike route are on a completely flat road. I'm less likely to get loss or keep looking at my phone app for directions by going the best direct route and I'm more aware of my surroundings.
I just sent this video to my driving instructor in the UK. She was raised in a car-biased culture where sustainable safety was rarely provided to the people’s streets. I am interested in what she will think of these ideas, since this concept may seem so new to her.
We're 8 months later. What was her reaction?
@@photoo848 she had no idea this was possible and didn’t really understand how well this could happen so when I spoke to her she didn’t really understand me 😂
The rest of the world needs to see this. Build with common sense, not a one size fits all formula based on an ageing car-driver-ego-massaging bias.
Something that should be told to all city councils/governments. Too many tragedies occur on roads each year and the blame isn't being put on the planning.
The most country s are much more bigger than the Netherlands, with less population per square kilometer.
Difilcult to copy this100% for every country. nobody use a bike when the distances are to far.
It s another story for the city s> they can do what the Netherlands do> seperate bikelanes.
@@sjaakdewinter6258 I'm from Ireland which isn't that much bigger than the Netherlands. Its a very car-centric country though nowhere near as bad as North America. My city has a major transport plan (Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy Plan) its but its nothing compared to Dutch planning.
I think that the councils could make change but the mindset for most people is about owning a house in the suburbs and driving to work. This leads to urban sprawl and disastrous traffic congestion, especially in Dublin which is in the top 20 worst cities for traffic in the world.
The people don't know the alternative so therefore they don't want change.
@@GeographyWorld
Our big changement for safe bicycling beguns with heavy protest of our population> we were tired for so many accidents, we were tired for so many dead people, specialy the children.
Something like that must happen to in your country.
I wish you succes.
@@sjaakdewinter6258
True, but not all. The school system in the Netherlands is such that at the age of 12 a middle school is selected. Up to the 1970's there were even separated schools for girls and boys, especially for those who would not go to higher schools. This means that 12 to 16 (lower) or 18 (higher) had to cycle to school. Schools got very big due to education reforms. This means that a lot of kids are cycling in rush hour. From villages to the city, and from one end of the city to the other. That is still the case.
The Netherlands were somewhat behind in wealth in those days, workers did not own a car.
People in administration, shop employees, civil servants, nobody owned a car.
If they did, there was no parking space at work, many offices and factories were in, or close to, the city center and not prepared for a lot of parking. So they used bicycles as well.
We made a big leap from somewhat poor to wealthy in the 1970's due to enormous gas reserves, specialization of industry, agriculture production (Flevoland), refineries and trade.
This economic boom made it possible to own a car, streets got filled with parked cars, playing space became parking, and at that same time traffic deaths rose to extreme because the roads were not made for that many cars.
We had to reform our road structure completely, from highway to the smallest street, and we had enough money to pay for it.
Looking back, we couldn't have had a better timing for the oil-crisis of 1973.
That was a wake-up call! And we moved away from sacrificing everything for the car.
So, it was a combination of factors to make other choices. The protests helped, but were not the only reason for change.
We were never a car centered country.
@@sjaakdewinter6258 being safe doesn’t necessarily even mean having bike infrastructure at all. You can improve the safety of many many roads in suburban America quite a lot even just between cars.
This way is very important to encourage independency by all people, including the sensory, mentally and physically impaired. Many people with disabilities still struggle moving throughout the city independently, and depend on taxis
Amazing. I wish England would follow this.
I wish the USA can get on board with this. This is so beautiful.
@@bikelanez7376 in my us city last night there was a car driver that crashed through a building (not exceedingly uncommon btw). The traffic calming in the Dutch cities would make that damn near impossible here.
@@eriklakeland3857 Not Just Bikes made a video about cars crashing into buildings; m.ruclips.net/video/Ra_0DgnJ1uQ/видео.html
You can wish all you want, but you simply won't have the resources to afford it, due to a surprising lack of brexit "dividends" for the UK and EU regional stimulus funds cut per Jan. 1st.
The most important safety feature in The Netherlands is the general acceptance of cyclists and pedestrians as ordinary folk, just like the people who happen to drive a car. I often hear surprised comments by foreigners who're suprised at seeing cars and big lorries stopping for cyclists and pedestrians, even when legally they're not obliged to do so.
Car and lorrie drivers also ride bikes.
Sorry road laws say; cars etc should only move/drive in a way that they always can stop for “ soft traffic “ pedestrians and bicycles . Even when a bicycle or a pedestrian walks/drive a red light. The car etc are in the first wrong, and responsible for the accident. Greetings
I believe the burden of proof was put on the car driver some years ago. The car driver is assumed to be at fault unless the reverse is very obvious. Makes for very defensive driving in town.
Great video! I was wondering if maybe you would make a video on street lighting for cyclists, specifically not the lighting on the bikes themselves. Would be an interesting topic I think.
A good system i wish my country Scotland would adopt it.
It s very easy> make (save) bicyclelanes and the people going to use it
@@sjaakdewinter6258 yes its difficult in Scotland its tuff to even get our government to stop car drivers from using our lanes as the latest parking place, we have a long way to go sadly.
@@mysurlytrucker7510
I know! One day I was with the bike in Belgium, it was hell, cars passed you with 100 km or more.
Seperate bikelanes works only when it is (almost) impossible for cars to go on these lanes. That s the start> safety first.
@@sjaakdewinter6258 totally agree, half the problem is a lot of it is paying lip service ,and not doing it strictly they are worried they will upset the car drivers.
Maybe you should take a look at Maastricht sometime. It's worst Dutch city for cycling in my experience.
On most 50kph main roads in Maastricht, there is either no physical barrier between cyclists and motorists, or cyclists are forced to ride on parallel roads, with an awful road surface and cars that are parking.
The roundabouts along Via Regia - Sint Annalaan - Hertogsingel aren't great either to Dutch standards.
Then within neighbourhoods, there's a lot of 30kph roads as main roads through the neighbours, with no cycle path, and no traffic calming measures.
It's really funny to see you using footage taken from towns and villages in my neigbourhood, you must be from near Den Bosch i think.
IIRC more Utrecht-ish, which is also very common in the videos.
Mark's living in 's-Hertogenbosch indeed, work is in Utrecht.
Mark, did you hire an actor to play a vision-impaired man, or did you just get lucky and find a pedestrian tapping with a cane?
Everything you see in my videos is what you can randomly see on the streets in the Netherlands. Nothing is ever staged.
@@BicycleDutch Of course, I'm just having fun over here!
Many cities in the Netherlands are a complete disaster for blind people and the local governments are very slow to acknowledge the problems. The concept of shared spaces really is hell for the blind and people with other challenges, as
Look for instance at Groningen, where I have studied for many years and where I still have a lot of friends. The bike rules over there. They have an initiative called Groningen Bike City, conspicuously admitting that they don't give a damn about pedestrians, let alone blind pedestrians or people in wheel chairs. They've started to employ bike stewards to address the share plague of bikes on pavements, but far too late and it doesn't solve the structural problems.
Shop owners place their sandwich boards on pavement tiles for the blind and both police officers and city guards simply walk by these boards, apparently unaware of any problem. Many cyclists too don't seem to understand the function of these tiles and park their bike on them.
There are instances where a pavement is almost completely occupied by a terrace and a sandwich board before it. Some city guards have confessed the desire to address these shop keepers, because of the danger these examples pose for pedestrians who are forced to walk on a road full of cyclists, but they say that cannot do anything, because they lack authority. Nonetheless, the police refuses to address the problem, referring the responsibility back to the city guards. Even the lobby group of shop keepers in Groningen (Groningen City Club), if I may believe them, expressed their discontent and they have supposedly pressed the local government repeatedly to finally address this problem and to make sure that the city centre is a welcoming and safe place for everyone. But the different aldermen over the years who were responsible for addressing problems like these, clearly didn't give a fuck. I have challenged them to put a blindfold on and to navigate the city with a white cane, but they couldn't even be bothered to answer the email.
A bit more attention to the shadow sides of Dutch infrastructure policies, would give a more balanced picture of the Netherlands.
@@robertfrans3998 This is important.
What place is at 1:42 ? The street looks lovely
Most off the video is shot in Utrecht.
Utrecht en 's-Hertogenbosch 😍😍😍
What is the Dutch insight on disabled users ie wheelchair powerchairs & mobility scooters users for accessibility
What are those bikes with the blue front tire? I see a lot of those.
The are ‘OV bikes’ , mostly used by students, leasing them at a amount of money a month.
@@peterscheedler8557 To elaborate, they are bikes you can easily rent from public transit places like train stations. So for example, you ride your bike to your location trainstation, take the train to the next city, and then rent a bike for the last part of the trip. I haven't used one yet, but I hear they are affordable.
Swapfietsen, I believe it's a bike renting service set up by university students. You rent a bike and when you get a flat or it breaks down they swap your bicycle for a new one.
@@peterscheedler8557 Nope not OV fietsen. (Public transit bikes)
@@LMvdB02 this is correct: blue tire is a common, private bike rental company. The OV-fiets have a partially blue frame.
hells yeah
Legendas em Português, por favor.
WELKOM 2021
I can't thing of an enough comment
on 0,20 min the road for the bikers is an priority road.
The car user might have completely lost the cyclists in the A-style of their car. It is pretty scary what the size of objects is that can get completely blocked by it.
And it's a dangerous thing to say due to camera perspective being able to change perception, I feel that car user if aware of the cyclists was driving towards a roundabout to fast. The way the car user braked wasn't the "Oh **** there are people in my path!" kind of style but seemed to be of the kind "Let's just drive towards a roundabout so fast cyclist think I never saw them or think I won't stop for them and if they do cycle on well let's just brake till I am almost in their path."
Hmmm ... mijn stem is ook zo sinds vorig jaar.
Is your city a bicycle city ?
Speak to your elected officials and transportation planners and let them know you support bicycle transportation.
Every city in the Netherlands is a bicycle city.
There is almost no diference between city s, We are all part of the great plan> traffic must be save, specialy bicycling.
@@sjaakdewinter6258 Not the same in the US. Our cities are dangerous for those riding bicycles
@@KJSvitko Very unfortunate my friend.
I hope these things get better, for example car free streets more pedestrianized areas and cycling.
Hee Bas, je staat midden op het fietspad, gek.
Well, you know the space to information is blank
That women at 3:07 is looking at you.
Ik denk dat je het misschien beter kunt vertalen als 'sustained safety' ipv sustainable Mark, of net zoals Peter Furth Systematic Safety gebruiken. Het is gewoon een onduidelijke term als je het letterlijk in het Engels vertaalt. Wel weer een hele goeie video overigens👍🤓
Niet mijn term. Het is allemaal vertaald. Ik houd gewoon de terminologie van SWOV aan.
Sustained betekent 'aanhoudende'. Sustainable en duurzaam betekenen hetzelfde, in alle contexten.
@@MrAronymous het is ook in het Nederlands onbenullige ambtenarentaal. Geen idee waar dat 'duurzaam' op zou moeten slaan. Systematisch is dan wel logisch, maar inderdaad is dat niet wat er stond. Wie heeft in hemelsnaam die wazige term verzonnen? Typisch jaren '90 toen opeens alles duurzaam moest worden en het hip klonk.
@@09conrado Als een term veel gebruikt wordt, dan krijg je vanzelf een containerbegrip. Dit woord-gebruik stamt uit de jaren '70 of '80. Limits to Growth is uit 1972? en het rapport Brundtland uit 1986? Ik gebruik liever de term houdbaarheid: 1) duurzaam, niet vluchtig en tijdelijk maar lang houdbaar; 2) wenselijk, want kernafval gaat ook lang mee, maar daar zullen weinig mensen van houden; 3) verdedigbaar, mensen vinden het zo belangrijk dat ze er ook op lange termijn voor willen vechten.
We have a bikeland not for cars.
Another fecker on a motor scooter at 2.54.
Women are slim in Holland!
Australia not so much 😂
because of cycling infrastructure differences of course
calling it sustainable is very weird.
Over 200 dead cyclists a year is not safety.
Thats just life.
You have to see it in context: 75% of those 200 victims are aged 60+ (for age
for the amount of cyclist in the netherlands, that's a low number
229 fatalities with over 10 million people that cycle on a daily basis is next to nothing. Every fatality is sad but if you consider that the combined travelling distance the Dutch bicyclists make is over 15 billion Km each year at an average speed of 15,8 Km/h, 229 is a very low number. It comes down to 1 fatality on every 65 502 183 Km travelled. Now you do your research on people dying in car accidents and see which means of transportation is safer.
Having infrastructure that doesn't create any deaths is basicaly imposible, but the netherlands is still trying to get to 0 deaths which is a good goal becouse that means you will always improve, so its much more getting the deaths as low as possible and right now the netherlands is one of the safest countries in the world to get around and tbe safest by far to cycle.