"The Crimson Fists... and the Black Templars... and the modern Imperial Fists." "I'm honestly surprised one of those doesn't have the word fist in it" "... That is because they are absolutely lunatics..." "PURGIN WITH MY KIIIIINNNNN!!!"
Consider how often the Black Templars run into Orks. Then consider how many Orks who survive battles with Black Templars heard them yelling about how Big E is the 'God-Emperor of Mankind', and greenskins have always thought of Emps as the 'war god' of humanity. Now recall the reality-warping shenanigans of the WAAAAGH!! field. Black Templar's intense faith in the Imperial Creed (ironic considering its origins) > reinforcing Ork's belief that Emps is a 'big G' god > WAAAGH!! field bends reality to Orks' collective will > Emperor is now a *literal God* Lorgar: Ha! I was right all along! Tzeentch: Just as planned! Wait a minute...
Well, the WAAAGH field is really just a more concentrated and effective version of the warp. Both warp reality based on collective belief. And considering the untold trillions of humans who worship the Emperor, I'd say it's safe to call Him a God at this point.
Wouldnt you be pissed off too all the time knowing how many Xenos and Heretics are out there? Id lose my shit to. So many Aliens and heretics.. so little battle brothers..
It's a possibility that the Imperial Fist Gene-Seed suffers from a defect that causes the strong and/or repressed emotions of the progenitor to become exacerbated and passed along to successive generations of Astartes, which may resonate with the emotions of Rogal Dorn himself. After all, Dorn was known for his incredible stoicism and seeming lack of emotion, but his rare outbursts, particularly of rage, were said to be of earth-shaking intensity. So, the Black Templars may have received a large portion of genetic stock from survivors of the Battle of the Iron Cage, whose bitterness and rage resonated so strongly with Dorn's own in regards to both the Traitor Legions and the Codex Astartes that it may have left a psychic imprint in the Gene-Seed.
They might also be, for lack of a better term, infected with Dorn's guilt over failing to protect the Emperor and their ten-thousand year crusade is a crusade of penance.
I always thought that the second founding chapters represented a specific part of theyr primarch kinda how each primarch represented the emperors emotion. The crimson fists represent his kinder side. exoriators shown his sadness and so on so on, with the imperial fists being the original. In that case the templars would be dorns rage during the cleansing, the deep burning anger he felt, while kiling those who betrayed the imperium.
dorn was a builder of fortifications, hinting at some paranoia in his mind, as one does not make great defenses if your not worried about the attacking force, I think its this small amount of paranoia accentuated. I feel like the black Templars want to burn the witch and purge the heretic not only because of religious zeal, but also bolstered by fear of these individuals as well, this paranoia of what these types of individuals are capable of. Its dorns small bit of paranoia that has caused this, his fear made even greater without the emperor to guide humanity. It is that which afflicts the Templars, dorns paranoia.
not fear for himself, fear for the fate of the imperium. you misunderstand. it is the same fear magnus had when he tried to contact big E and broke down the warp wards, Magnus never feared for himself, but he did for the fate of his father and humanity. people misconceive "and they shall know no fear" SM do indeed feel fear, just not personal fear for themselves, they fear for the fate of humanity and the imperium.
The reason Black templars hate psykers may very well have an explanation in the novel The battle of phall, Sigismund in this novel confesses to Rogal Dorn that he didn't take command of the retribution fleet because of Ehpharti's (psyker) predictions, sending the primarch into a cold rage and leading him to blame Sigismund (and even compare him to Horus) and unofficially strip him of his position in the legion, but he chose not to make it official to keep the moral of his brothers high, so the emperor's chapion title he recieved after that was a dubious honor in fact it was a way for making penance for his fault, and as chpater master of the future black termplars Sigismund transmitted his hate of the psykers (who made him lose his honor and position) to his chapter and inscribed it in it's creed !
This could very well be the result of Dorn disapproval of Sigismund ways, when a chapter loses it's primarch as primary reference they tend to become more fond of the emperor himself (due to many different reasons e.g blood ravens)
Their flaw is that they tried to emulate the Teutonic Knights but ended up with the colors of the Knights Hospitaller. If such a shameful mistake were to be made public, they'd be force to disband.
Aravaganthus the temple in their hearts that they built to house the love and devotion of the emperor, why of course. Did you think other wise, filthy heretic?
Ehehm, I did add a cool little device that launches swords. In fact I changed every bolter to fire swords and javelins. It also now has giant scythes. We will not be called liars damnit!
Well, look at it like this. With the Imperial Fists, They have a condition where they can feel how their Primarch felt when the he saw the Emperor's broken body. For the Blood Angels, they can feel how their Primarch felt in his last moments, filled with rage. Both of these instances are flaws brought on by past feelings of the Primarchs they inherit from. What if what the Black Templars feel is an unnamed flaw where they are feeling how Rogal Dorn felt when he went up against the Iron Warriors: super aggressive, unwilling to yield or retreat, and zealous in his love for the Emperor?
Paladin Demo No. But it is having religious heavy metal music blasting from their land raiders. Need that Ave imperator blasting from your pimp mobile between the sick guitar riffs
It was to my understanding that their close quarters combat style was to see the enemies die and confirm it, rather than guess at long range. There is also the fact most people watching them fight they "seem" crazy, but are not. In Helsreach the champion dies and they go charging into battle after the armor and weapon. The imperial guard see them as crazy, but they see it as a matter of honor. Better to die than lose the armor and sword. It is not rage that pushes them, it is honor and discipline.
The only "flaw" that the Templars have, is being better than every other chapter. Though perhaps their rage stems from both options presented. Both the Vengeance of Dorn, as well as complete and total zealotry.
President of Whiteistan I'm a Wolves of Fenris and Sons of Sanguinius man myself. Fists and Lizards are a close second and third respectively, though. Because fuck the Ultramar... *EXCESSIVE COUGHING* Fuck this shit. The blue toiletseats. There, I didn't say it... fucking specific warp disorder...
some combination of the two is likely. however at the same time, one could easily say that their intense mele combat is doctrinal as well. when facing foes up close and personal time is of the essence. here discipline and skill can show as savagery. the Vikings are an example. well trained and disciplined fighters, but in their fighting were downright fearless. they had such confidence in their skills, though the fearlessness also came from Viking culture. they thought the only good death was in battle, and by dying in battle, they would join their gods. here, the Templars see themselves as superior to their foes, and also are aware the best way to fight an enemy is to apply pressure and to keep applying that pressure. that savagry may just be a visage formed by their fanaticism and their sheer prowess in mele combat, as mele combat is unorganized.
Yeah its interesting I never really read into the Templars as savage just much more honed fighters then there brother legions. I dunno its very interesting especially in the books they never really seem savage just really willing to die.
vikings were not disaplined they were essentially pirates, the danes who conquered northern england were more displined than the saxon peasant soldiers but that isn't saying much.
The vikings were literal armed peasants mobs but particularly savage. Once the nations of what would become england began fielding proper professional armies the vikings got the shit kicked out of them lmao
I think the Black Templars flaw is like a psychic Anger and rage that Dorn felt imprinted on just a few of his sons like how his misery was imprinted on only a few of his sons and who knows maybe all the sons of Dorn feel/have these flaws like the Darkness and the rage of the Black Templars but its just that most of them are not as effected by them the same way
Well if the 'Genetic memory of Sanguinius' death' triggers the Black Rage, it would make sense that a Primarch, known for being logical and pragmatic, going completely waffles around the Segmentum Solar might just leave a mark.
I think it could be the missing membrane that allows for suspended animation. It could be an Astartes' sense of humor is genetically encoded in the membrane, allowing them to "keep occupied" by watching Red Dwarf or Red Green reruns in their mind. Lacking the membrane, and knowing even Horus probably has a better sense of humor, is enough to drive anyone batty.
Hey, Remleiz, I would love a theory video to hear your thoughts on what would happen if the Emperor HAD set himself up as a god in human flesh from the very start. If anyone else is interested in seeing that video, upvote so he can see it :)
Huge javelins and swords shot out at a million miles per hours into the head of Nurgle. It'll shoot blades damnit. CQC even from afar. It'll probably have the prototype for the Angry Marines man launcher.
Not in canon (that I know of), but the Desert Fangs (the "serious" name for the Angry Marines) could count. Then again, they'd probably just throw it in the face of whoever gave it to them while it's still hot.
Wasn't the IF rebuilt prior to second founding from genestock from other loyalist legions too? Thus you get a situation where the founding geneseed could be from almost anywhere and carry psychosis, etc?
I'm sure that your reasoning behind Don's revenge campaign is at the very least slightly wrong based on what I have read on dorn and the horus heresy. Although Dorn was furious at what he had let happen to his father and his imperium, it was pressure from guilliman that drove forward this ruthless campaign. Dorn refused to split his legion and didn't like guilliman enforcing this upon the remaining primarchs. However he saw that this was causing a rift in what remained of the loyalists, one that threatened to create further harm to the imperium. But he also knew that his legion wouldn't like being told to form chapters. So he knew that in some way there will must be broken. So it was not mad fury and zealotry that lead him after the traitors, but as all things with dorn the cold truth of what must be done. The iron cage was not a foolish attempt to break the iron warriors and capture perturabo. But a successful attempt at breaking his legion to leave them in a state where they would be more willing to adhere to the codex astartes.
As interesting as this theory is, it's unlikely. The Black Templars were founded by a man who's skill in battle was matched only by his pure batshit insane fanatical rage and loyalty to the imperium. All the Black Templars had to do from that point was to hold themselves and any new members to that standard...
Black Templar- hey guardsman, what's up with this world fam? Guardsman- I think there might be some heresy ove..... Black Templar- FUCKIN CRUSADE TIME!!!!!!
I always thought the Black Templars were secretly descended from Angron, that their founding Chapter Master was a World Eater that defected to Dorn. That Angron's aggression and rage was already there, but the Butcher's Nails just dialed it up to 11. Just my thought, but this theory looks a lot more plausible than mine. I did not know about the Darkness issue before.
Not likely considering Angrons rage mode was due to the Butchers Nails, and the World Eaters were forced to use the Nails, no genetic preposition to bloodlust.
I'm 99% Sure Sigmund actually did spend plenty of time around the World Eaters dueling in their arena's. It is where the Black Templars get the idea to chain their melee weapons to their armor, yet I doubt the World Eaters corruption would have affected Sigmund at all.
Inspired by your video regarding the size of all the Primarchs. I would like to see a video detailing the battle prowess of the Primarchs. Namely a list of each Primarch with confirmed (or suggested) kills or defeats of other Primarchs. This would eventually lead to another video I would like to see regarding the question; if all the Primarchs were in a grand melee (a large brawl between all of them at once) who would win?
I'm partial to the theory that they aren't Imperial Fists at all and are instead the remnants of one of the lost legions who were mindwiped and folded into the Fists. We do have that one line where Dorn tells Sigismund that he isn't his son. We also have the weird case of the Soul Drinkers who were a fellow 2nd founding Fists successor with a speciality in close combat. They were later discovered NOT to be genetic sons of Dorn to the surprise of all the Fists.
Interesting, to mention discipline, Rogal Dorn was known for his cool demeanour and discipline, but he always seemed to be merely repressing his towering anger, and other such feelings, only opening up in the most intimate of situations.
TLDR: "Psychotic religious fanatic" Black Templars are a product of GW's 6th Ed retcon where they "rolled" them back into the SM codex and oblivion as sub par Ultramarines. 6000 Black Templars was a count of the MINIMUM possible counting up the reports of the various crusades at one point. Remember that the blatant "Emperor worshiping" and the hints of psychotic behaviors come from the 6th Ed and later retcons. Probably because GW had pretty much painted themselves in a corner with the BT. They were the one and ONLY known Chapter to be in obedience to the Nikea decree, as numerous as a Legion, still following the Emperor's edict to Crusade, etc. Also, even with their preference for close (sword & pistol) combat, most used bolters, which doesn't preclude being up close and personal. The BT were also known for Drop Pod assaults and heavy Armored strikes. They needed no Devastator squads because they had more heavy tanks to provide that fire support as well as arguably extra heavy weapons in the Crusader squads. The biggest problem are those who followed the BT (or for one edition gained an advantage) by running Black Tide armies that were closer to an Ork Boyz army in power armor than anything else. This was then declared to be the "real Templars". Now? They are just illogical and psychotic religious fanatics who don't remember their own history since they don't have psykers (according to the modern lore) who whine about why the Emprah took away all their Brain Boyz. Other than that, they are pretty much Ultramarines with crappier special rules and one odd troop choice.
To be honest, I'd argue that the flaw is a mix - blood angles have their psycho switch, believing they're Sanguinius; what if the flaw was mainly present in the Emperor's Champions, and the flaw itself was to believe themselves to be as Sigismund? It would explain the most unusual thing with the chapter: the Emperor's Champion. Can be a random recruit just granted the black carpace, if he gets the vision, he's suddenly pretty much the best swordsman in the entire chapter; ie, in the beast Arrises.
It's more of a cultural thing You see the templars see themselves as much as sons of Sigismund as they are of Dorn with Sigismund being part of a Trinity of adoration alongside the Immortal Emperor and Primarch So it stands to reason that they base both culture and conditioning in Sigismund's values and tenets of battle And the templars are not alone in the adoration of the Emperor the Blood Angels and successors, the Novamarines and to an extent the Space Wolves see him as divine as well. It's mostly the Ultramarines and more straightforward successors that still retain the notion of the imperial truth
You know it’s funny the absolute second this come out I was reading about the Ophidium Gulf “Incident”. And I use the term “incident” oh so very loosely.
I think fabious had a play around with theyre gene stock while the apothecaries were distracted by abbadon doing a pole dance wearing only stockings and a jester hat
I believe it's not actually a flaw as such. It is of the warp, as the primarchs were partially of the warp. Just as Sanguineous's death causes a psychic shockwave, and subsequently affected his son's. Rogal Dorn has potentially affected his son's in a similar fashion, though not as acutely or consistently as the blood angels. I would be interested to know about any potential flaws in Ferris Manus's legion following his own death. Since there are only a few primarchs that are confirmed dead, this would be a good.measure for comparison.
I doubt that they would kill each other over it. They would either consider it as the holy emperor has bestowed his fury and rage upon them, or as an excuse to do another penitent crusade. Or both.
There is also another factor worth considering when it comes to the Black Templars' behavior - psycho conditioning. We know that the chapter has officially disbanded their librarium and the responsibilities of the latter have been transfered to their chaplains. This means that the chaplains hold much more power and sway than their cousins from codex-compliant chapters. This unbridled power can mean that they have a much higher influence over the training of neophytes and the criteria for their promotion to battle brothers, including the stage of psycho-conditioning during the implantation and growth process of their gene-seed organs. TL;DR The chaplains could deliberately be selecting and/or creating much more fanatical astartes due to their unique position of power the lack of oversight from the rest of the chapter.
Black Templars, the Chapter closest to the infamous Angry Marines as canonically possible. Heck even the machine spirit of an Emperor-class titan can't resist an angry Black Templar (granted it had to face Grimaldus which is possibly one of the angriest)
This might be my personal headcanon but I always saw the Black Templar’s rage and perfectionism to a dark reflection of Rogal Dorns own traits. Dorn is steadfast and resolute but inflexible and incapable of accepting deviations in any plan. They’re Dorns unyielding defense twisted to rage and spite much how he cracked and ruthlessly hunter down the Traitors after the Heresy.
I think you need to check your sources.... Never once have the Black Templar been described as psychotic in fluff, ever. In fact in combat aside from yelling 'No Pity, No Remorse, No Fear!' on the charge, they're fairly quiet (Chaplains aside) as they follow in Sigismund's footsteps in fighting style. And you know what that was? Fight with honour. That was it. In combat Sigismund barely spoke, his moves so fluid offence and defence merged. The Emperor's Champions all fight the same way, to a lesser degere. Yes they're more aggressive, but its still only brutal efficiency with which they fight. The uniting fact across ALL Imperial Fists and decendants is that they're stubborn as hell and play nice with others (as Dorn has said to the effect of what's the point of the imperium if we fight amongst ourselves and don't look after its people). Civil War? Really? Amongst sons of Dorn? This ep is a clutch at straws and makes me sad.
I take issue with the characterization of what Galoolyman did at the Iron Cage as "saving" the Imperial Fists. Rowboaty: -breaks apart the legions so there was never able to be a concentrated fulcrum from which Imperial military endeavors could pivot -spent too much effort during and post-heresy LARPing in Imperium Secundus to limit the damage to the infrastructure of the Imperium and the slow and flawed rebuilding -prevented Rogal from finishing off the single MOST INTACT traitor legion at the Iron Cage as the final blow that killed the VIIth would have also served to destroy the IVth as well, making them a non-entity for the purpose of the forces of Chaos -got bodied by Fulgrim before he could actually contribute anything that actually helped CONFIRMED WORST PRIMARCH EVER!
We know that Black Templars were a special order with similar reputation within a Legion well before the Horus Heresy, so it his highly unprobable that they are a byproduct of later change. In this case I would argue that the Black Templars Chapter has been formed from a special kind of Imperial Fists that were present in the original Legion but no longer exist in present day chapter.
It is kind of hinted that they are the most likely have Dorns anger. Thing is, they are also not berserkers, all of Dorns sons are expert swordsmen regardless of chapter and the BT are no exception.
I do wish the BT would play more like a good CC army, like they did for near 10 years. Never really top tier army but still could do some wonderful close combat games.
It's not a flaw, it's a feature.
UUUUUUGGGHGGHHHHHHHH FUCKING IT!!!!!!!
You guys wanna get a heavy flamer us salamanders have you covered
"Is it a bug or a feature?"
Betheseda -- Yes
It’s a lifestyle
I almost broke my screen from trying to like this more.
"The Crimson Fists... and the Black Templars... and the modern Imperial Fists."
"I'm honestly surprised one of those doesn't have the word fist in it"
"... That is because they are absolutely lunatics..."
"PURGIN WITH MY KIIIIINNNNN!!!"
@Vulkan Primarch of the Salamanders Amen to that Brother
Linkin loyalist
Consider how often the Black Templars run into Orks. Then consider how many Orks who survive battles with Black Templars heard them yelling about how Big E is the 'God-Emperor of Mankind', and greenskins have always thought of Emps as the 'war god' of humanity. Now recall the reality-warping shenanigans of the WAAAAGH!! field.
Black Templar's intense faith in the Imperial Creed (ironic considering its origins) > reinforcing Ork's belief that Emps is a 'big G' god > WAAAGH!! field bends reality to Orks' collective will > Emperor is now a *literal God*
Lorgar: Ha! I was right all along!
Tzeentch: Just as planned! Wait a minute...
Never thought the damn Orks would be the saviors of the Imperium...
Well, the WAAAGH field is really just a more concentrated and effective version of the warp. Both warp reality based on collective belief. And considering the untold trillions of humans who worship the Emperor, I'd say it's safe to call Him a God at this point.
ORK ORK ORK ORK
You know something is wrong when tzeentch said : just as planned, wait a minute...
ReconCrusader does the emperor literally eats them or they re just sacrificed
Wouldnt you be pissed off too all the time knowing how many Xenos and Heretics are out there? Id lose my shit to. So many Aliens and heretics.. so little battle brothers..
Only there's actually a ton of battle brothers. Like a lot. Like 6 thousand of them.
@@inquisitorwalmarius6650 correct, while there may be many battle brothers, there are more xenos, and it is a travesty that must be... rectified.
pro trick : you can watch series at Flixzone. I've been using it for watching all kinds of movies during the lockdown.
@Kristopher Gunnar yup, been watching on Flixzone for months myself :)
It's a possibility that the Imperial Fist Gene-Seed suffers from a defect that causes the strong and/or repressed emotions of the progenitor to become exacerbated and passed along to successive generations of Astartes, which may resonate with the emotions of Rogal Dorn himself. After all, Dorn was known for his incredible stoicism and seeming lack of emotion, but his rare outbursts, particularly of rage, were said to be of earth-shaking intensity.
So, the Black Templars may have received a large portion of genetic stock from survivors of the Battle of the Iron Cage, whose bitterness and rage resonated so strongly with Dorn's own in regards to both the Traitor Legions and the Codex Astartes that it may have left a psychic imprint in the Gene-Seed.
The other chapters have a gene seed defect causing them t not be metal enough.
As far as we know.
Idk about you guys but I just find that so fucking metal. Fuck yeah black templars Ave Imperator
Brutalyte616 like fucking father likes fucking son
so that is why they are absolute lunatics
They might also be, for lack of a better term, infected with Dorn's guilt over failing to protect the Emperor and their ten-thousand year crusade is a crusade of penance.
And his anger at his traitorous brothers for putting the Emperor there in the first place
I mean if one succour suffers from his depression makes sense one suffers from his rage
Krieg: look at black Templar** friends?
Black templar: *kinsman*
Dorn's rage was pretty legendary too.
They act like they mad boys, but in reality they sad boys.
I always thought that the second founding chapters represented a specific part of theyr primarch kinda how each primarch represented the emperors emotion. The crimson fists represent his kinder side. exoriators shown his sadness and so on so on, with the imperial fists being the original. In that case the templars would be dorns rage during the cleansing, the deep burning anger he felt, while kiling those who betrayed the imperium.
The last crusader With immense abhorrence.
Crimson Fists are kinder. Maybe the Templars' official name is the Brown Fists?
There is only one Lemun Russ, the one who gets drunk and throws hands.
Rogal Dorn "Thats because they are absolute Lunatics."
MrIronWar : and proud!
Thats what i wanted to say
PURGING WITH MY KIN!!!
PURGIN WIIIITH MYYY KIIIN
Rogal Dorn: "Yeeeeesssss"
"I was something *beyond* furious." - Rogal Dorn
Yep, makes sense.
PURRRRRRGING WIIIIIIITH MY KIIIIIIIIIIN!!!
Questionable? There it is
[crusade of renouncement]
That is because they are total maniacs.
Absolute lunatics.....
PUUURRRGGING WWWWIIITH MMMMY KKKIIIIIIIIIN
dorn was a builder of fortifications, hinting at some paranoia in his mind, as one does not make great defenses if your not worried about the attacking force, I think its this small amount of paranoia accentuated. I feel like the black Templars want to burn the witch and purge the heretic not only because of religious zeal, but also bolstered by fear of these individuals as well, this paranoia of what these types of individuals are capable of. Its dorns small bit of paranoia that has caused this, his fear made even greater without the emperor to guide humanity. It is that which afflicts the Templars, dorns paranoia.
Fear? Dorn and his SPEHSS MAHREENS being afraid? Thats some major heresy right there.
not fear for himself, fear for the fate of the imperium. you misunderstand. it is the same fear magnus had when he tried to contact big E and broke down the warp wards, Magnus never feared for himself, but he did for the fate of his father and humanity.
people misconceive "and they shall know no fear" SM do indeed feel fear, just not personal fear for themselves, they fear for the fate of humanity and the imperium.
Rogal dorn during literally every battle: "i am fortifying this position"
I AM FORTIFYING THIS POSITION.
THE BEST OFFENSE IS A GOOD DEFENSE.
Dorn didn't want to make fortifications he wanted to make pretty buildings
AHEM....WE HAVE NO FLAWS!
I disagree... sorry pal, you need to see a psychologist
Chapter Master Tu'shan
It's only a drug problem if I run out!
DEUS VULT
CLEANSE, PURGE, KILL!!!
Nobody's perfect Brother.
The reason Black templars hate psykers may very well have an explanation in the novel The battle of phall, Sigismund in this novel confesses to Rogal Dorn that he didn't take command of the retribution fleet because of Ehpharti's (psyker) predictions, sending the primarch into a cold rage and leading him to blame Sigismund (and even compare him to Horus) and unofficially strip him of his position in the legion, but he chose not to make it official to keep the moral of his brothers high, so the emperor's chapion title he recieved after that was a dubious honor in fact it was a way for making penance for his fault, and as chpater master of the future black termplars Sigismund transmitted his hate of the psykers (who made him lose his honor and position) to his chapter and inscribed it in it's creed !
it would be a nice lore. But in fact, they are believers in the emperor as a god, and the psyker who brought him to stay on earth is a saint
This could very well be the result of Dorn disapproval of Sigismund ways, when a chapter loses it's primarch as primary reference they tend to become more fond of the emperor himself (due to many different reasons e.g blood ravens)
Their flaw is that they tried to emulate the Teutonic Knights but ended up with the colors of the Knights Hospitaller. If such a shameful mistake were to be made public, they'd be force to disband.
OH my god you're right and i never noticed it!
Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd
No but seriously, nice catch
With the name of the knights templar.
Which begs the question, which "Temple" do they even refer to?
Aravaganthus the temple in their hearts that they built to house the love and devotion of the emperor, why of course. Did you think other wise, filthy heretic?
They're crazy because I keep "borrowing" things from them.
HereticalBLOODRAVENS!! Hey, any chance of you returning my Space Subway card? I only need one more for a free sub!
I think they love their Father and Grandpa alot
Twinarbalest got it right plus a brand new baneblade. Don't mind the Death Korp of Krieg markings.
HereticalBLOODRAVENS!! I will take that vehicle back for Krieg
Ehehm, I did add a cool little device that launches swords. In fact I changed every bolter to fire swords and javelins. It also now has giant scythes. We will not be called liars damnit!
Well, look at it like this. With the Imperial Fists, They have a condition where they can feel how their Primarch felt when the he saw the Emperor's broken body. For the Blood Angels, they can feel how their Primarch felt in his last moments, filled with rage. Both of these instances are flaws brought on by past feelings of the Primarchs they inherit from. What if what the Black Templars feel is an unnamed flaw where they are feeling how Rogal Dorn felt when he went up against the Iron Warriors: super aggressive, unwilling to yield or retreat, and zealous in his love for the Emperor?
All other chapters have the genetic flaw of not enough faith in the god emperor.
PURGING WITH MY KIN
THESE MEN THEY WILL NOT YIELD
HolostifaxiqTemplar
FEAR I SHALL NOT KNOW
The black templars need extra psycho-reconditioning.....and perhaps several weeks in the pain glove.
can you blame them? their normal calm has been... compromised
The glove has spoken.
Yeeeeees
I suspect that like Ayn Rand their philosophy is based on mummy giving awayt their favourite relics.
"Magic pain glove, I am lost on this Heretical ship. What should I do?"
So it's not having heavy metal background music blasting from upon the heavens?
Paladin Demo No. But it is having religious heavy metal music blasting from their land raiders. Need that Ave imperator blasting from your pimp mobile between the sick guitar riffs
Need that good Power Wolf
PRIMO VICTORIA!!!
Knuttonj
PUUUUUURGING WITH MY KIIIIN
CRAWLING IN MY PURGE
Powerwolf music and Black Templars go well together.
I can agree to this.
I never thought about that but yeah
Naw, power wolf is satirical music...I'm good heretic
Templars?
You have my attention
*PURGING WITH MY KINNNNN*
It was to my understanding that their close quarters combat style was to see the enemies die and confirm it, rather than guess at long range. There is also the fact most people watching them fight they "seem" crazy, but are not. In Helsreach the champion dies and they go charging into battle after the armor and weapon. The imperial guard see them as crazy, but they see it as a matter of honor. Better to die than lose the armor and sword. It is not rage that pushes them, it is honor and discipline.
The only "flaw" that the Templars have, is being better than every other chapter. Though perhaps their rage stems from both options presented. Both the Vengeance of Dorn, as well as complete and total zealotry.
Metall
Better than the Ultrama... *gag* Ult *wretching* Girlyman's sons.
The other chapters have the lacking of Metal defect.
Personally I prefer the imperial fists and salamanders.
President of Whiteistan
I'm a Wolves of Fenris and Sons of Sanguinius man myself.
Fists and Lizards are a close second and third respectively, though.
Because fuck the Ultramar... *EXCESSIVE COUGHING*
Fuck this shit. The blue toiletseats. There, I didn't say it... fucking specific warp disorder...
Black templars aren't the heroes the imperium deserves, but the one it needs...
The last crusader On the contrary, the Black Templars are exactly what the imperium deserves.
FoolishAnonymous no that would be the lamenters
@@thevoicesaysdo you are confusing the movies their buddy, 500 was all about the Custodes, The Templar is about the Blacks,
I see you are also cursed with knawledge.
As I Black Templar, I agree.
some combination of the two is likely. however at the same time, one could easily say that their intense mele combat is doctrinal as well. when facing foes up close and personal time is of the essence. here discipline and skill can show as savagery. the Vikings are an example. well trained and disciplined fighters, but in their fighting were downright fearless. they had such confidence in their skills, though the fearlessness also came from Viking culture. they thought the only good death was in battle, and by dying in battle, they would join their gods. here, the Templars see themselves as superior to their foes, and also are aware the best way to fight an enemy is to apply pressure and to keep applying that pressure. that savagry may just be a visage formed by their fanaticism and their sheer prowess in mele combat, as mele combat is unorganized.
Yeah its interesting I never really read into the Templars as savage just much more honed fighters then there brother legions. I dunno its very interesting especially in the books they never really seem savage just really willing to die.
As a decendent of the Vikings, I had the same thought.
vikings were not disaplined they were essentially pirates, the danes who conquered northern england were more displined than the saxon peasant soldiers but that isn't saying much.
Agreed
The vikings were literal armed peasants mobs but particularly savage.
Once the nations of what would become england began fielding proper professional armies the vikings got the shit kicked out of them lmao
I honestly think it's because they carry on Sigismund's need to redeem himself in Dorn's eyes and this passed off as a fanatical need to purge.
BLACK TEMPLAR MASTER CHAPTER!!!
I think the Black Templars flaw is like a psychic Anger and rage that Dorn felt imprinted on just a few of his sons like how his misery was imprinted on only a few of his sons and who knows maybe all the sons of Dorn feel/have these flaws like the Darkness and the rage of the Black Templars but its just that most of them are not as effected by them the same way
Well if the 'Genetic memory of Sanguinius' death' triggers the Black Rage, it would make sense that a Primarch, known for being logical and pragmatic, going completely waffles around the Segmentum Solar might just leave a mark.
They're angry, because the last pain glove broke and noone knows how to fix it.
I think it could be the missing membrane that allows for suspended animation. It could be an Astartes' sense of humor is genetically encoded in the membrane, allowing them to "keep occupied" by watching Red Dwarf or Red Green reruns in their mind. Lacking the membrane, and knowing even Horus probably has a better sense of humor, is enough to drive anyone batty.
SILENCE CHILD! The black Templars are perfect and you will not bring attention to deformities!
get out of here alpharius.
You look like the alpha legion a bit
Hey, Remleiz, I would love a theory video to hear your thoughts on what would happen if the Emperor HAD set himself up as a god in human flesh from the very start. If anyone else is interested in seeing that video, upvote so he can see it :)
FidasEternas *considers upvoting*
Nah...
You claim that the God Emperor is not a God!? Heresy! *BLA- STAB STAB STAB STAB*
FidasEternas
If he wanted to set him self up as a god, he could have done it back in the middle ages, or back in ancient Greece/rome
Templars are intimidating and all, but have you ever seen a Baneblade?
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
The Baneblade would literally be armed with bolters that shout out massive blades and Javelins.
Huge javelins and swords shot out at a million miles per hours into the head of Nurgle. It'll shoot blades damnit. CQC even from afar. It'll probably have the prototype for the Angry Marines man launcher.
More Intimidating than a Baneblade... a Baneblade with a Templar Cross emblazoned upon it!
Rather a Baneblade to a Templar Battle Barge...
Was there ever a chapter that was in more dire need of decaf?
BURN THE HERETIC! THERE WILL BE NO DECAF! Wait... there is decaf in Hell. YOU DEMON!
Not in canon (that I know of), but the Desert Fangs (the "serious" name for the Angry Marines) could count. Then again, they'd probably just throw it in the face of whoever gave it to them while it's still hot.
Merry sanguila everyone!!
Sangulia is BAND!
Nah, he meant Great horned rat day.
I attack the Darkness.
“Nahhhhh, their just Dorn’s angry boys....” (recording this video and sending it to High Marshal Helbrect as proof of Heresy)
The Templar's are like that due to beliefs and their founders. Also they have waaayy more then 6000 sword brothers and initiates.
Wasn't the IF rebuilt prior to second founding from genestock from other loyalist legions too? Thus you get a situation where the founding geneseed could be from almost anywhere and carry psychosis, etc?
I'm sure that your reasoning behind Don's revenge campaign is at the very least slightly wrong based on what I have read on dorn and the horus heresy. Although Dorn was furious at what he had let happen to his father and his imperium, it was pressure from guilliman that drove forward this ruthless campaign. Dorn refused to split his legion and didn't like guilliman enforcing this upon the remaining primarchs.
However he saw that this was causing a rift in what remained of the loyalists, one that threatened to create further harm to the imperium. But he also knew that his legion wouldn't like being told to form chapters. So he knew that in some way there will must be broken.
So it was not mad fury and zealotry that lead him after the traitors, but as all things with dorn the cold truth of what must be done.
The iron cage was not a foolish attempt to break the iron warriors and capture perturabo. But a successful attempt at breaking his legion to leave them in a state where they would be more willing to adhere to the codex astartes.
40k theories on black templars!? Thank you Remlez and Merry christmas!!!
No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!
As interesting as this theory is, it's unlikely. The Black Templars were founded by a man who's skill in battle was matched only by his pure batshit insane fanatical rage and loyalty to the imperium. All the Black Templars had to do from that point was to hold themselves and any new members to that standard...
You used one of my pieces for Sigismund! How nice :D I am a fan of this channel.
Nah. I heard it from Lord Adorable, himself. He said "They're absolute lunatics." That is all.
Black Templar- hey guardsman, what's up with this world fam?
Guardsman- I think there might be some heresy ove.....
Black Templar- FUCKIN CRUSADE TIME!!!!!!
I always thought the Black Templars were secretly descended from Angron, that their founding Chapter Master was a World Eater that defected to Dorn. That Angron's aggression and rage was already there, but the Butcher's Nails just dialed it up to 11. Just my thought, but this theory looks a lot more plausible than mine. I did not know about the Darkness issue before.
It is said that Dorn's rage was pretty terrifying when he did actually show it.
Cantankerous Malcontent well Sigmund was not a world eater and he was the founder.
It would be more appropriate for them to be Word Bearers given how zealot they are
Not likely considering Angrons rage mode was due to the Butchers Nails, and the World Eaters were forced to use the Nails, no genetic preposition to bloodlust.
I'm 99% Sure Sigmund actually did spend plenty of time around the World Eaters dueling in their arena's. It is where the Black Templars get the idea to chain their melee weapons to their armor, yet I doubt the World Eaters corruption would have affected Sigmund at all.
Be nice if some of these 40k channels did some Eldar videos. My favorite faction seems to be ignored too much.
Anything about the Sons of Dorn is a great Sanguinal-errr Christmas gift. Thanks!
Yeah...The Black Templars definitely inherited Dorn's rather BOUNDLESS rage (but not his composure that keeps said rage in check)
Inspired by your video regarding the size of all the Primarchs. I would like to see a video detailing the battle prowess of the Primarchs. Namely a list of each Primarch with confirmed (or suggested) kills or defeats of other Primarchs.
This would eventually lead to another video I would like to see regarding the question; if all the Primarchs were in a grand melee (a large brawl between all of them at once) who would win?
The stoic nature of the imperial fists and the crimson fists....shows a picture of the crimson fist in full berzerk flow 😂😂.....i love this channel ^^
I'm partial to the theory that they aren't Imperial Fists at all and are instead the remnants of one of the lost legions who were mindwiped and folded into the Fists.
We do have that one line where Dorn tells Sigismund that he isn't his son. We also have the weird case of the Soul Drinkers who were a fellow 2nd founding Fists successor with a speciality in close combat. They were later discovered NOT to be genetic sons of Dorn to the surprise of all the Fists.
he told him that because he disowned him more of a "you aren't my son anymore"
I bet you saw alfas tweet about his next podcast and said: frak you im out doing you this sanguinala!
I had this scheduled before he finished rendering the podcast ;)
They don’t take part in a crusade they are the crusade
And the crusade is eternal.
Blackest of the black!
Interesting, to mention discipline, Rogal Dorn was known for his cool demeanour and discipline, but he always seemed to be merely repressing his towering anger, and other such feelings, only opening up in the most intimate of situations.
TLDR: "Psychotic religious fanatic" Black Templars are a product of GW's 6th Ed retcon where they "rolled" them back into the SM codex and oblivion as sub par Ultramarines.
6000 Black Templars was a count of the MINIMUM possible counting up the reports of the various crusades at one point. Remember that the blatant "Emperor worshiping" and the hints of psychotic behaviors come from the 6th Ed and later retcons. Probably because GW had pretty much painted themselves in a corner with the BT. They were the one and ONLY known Chapter to be in obedience to the Nikea decree, as numerous as a Legion, still following the Emperor's edict to Crusade, etc. Also, even with their preference for close (sword & pistol) combat, most used bolters, which doesn't preclude being up close and personal. The BT were also known for Drop Pod assaults and heavy Armored strikes. They needed no Devastator squads because they had more heavy tanks to provide that fire support as well as arguably extra heavy weapons in the Crusader squads.
The biggest problem are those who followed the BT (or for one edition gained an advantage) by running Black Tide armies that were closer to an Ork Boyz army in power armor than anything else. This was then declared to be the "real Templars".
Now? They are just illogical and psychotic religious fanatics who don't remember their own history since they don't have psykers (according to the modern lore) who whine about why the Emprah took away all their Brain Boyz. Other than that, they are pretty much Ultramarines with crappier special rules and one odd troop choice.
"The timely intervention of his Guilleman and his Ultramarines" WELL WOOP-DE-DO
To be honest, I'd argue that the flaw is a mix - blood angles have their psycho switch, believing they're Sanguinius; what if the flaw was mainly present in the Emperor's Champions, and the flaw itself was to believe themselves to be as Sigismund? It would explain the most unusual thing with the chapter: the Emperor's Champion. Can be a random recruit just granted the black carpace, if he gets the vision, he's suddenly pretty much the best swordsman in the entire chapter; ie, in the beast Arrises.
I think it's more of sigusmonds temper rubbing off than anything else
glad you covered my Friends, I gotten their Parent Chapter some Supplies before and still do.
Matt Are you Matt Ward cousin?
no not a Ward.
ok
A very merry Sanguinala to you, Inquisitor Remleiz!
that image of sanguinius is fucking badass! that pelt tabard or accessory or whatever is sick
You say fanaticism. I say holy warrior.
I love when the space marine quotes come up
It's more of a cultural thing
You see the templars see themselves as much as sons of Sigismund as they are of Dorn with Sigismund being part of a Trinity of adoration alongside the Immortal Emperor and Primarch
So it stands to reason that they base both culture and conditioning in Sigismund's values and tenets of battle
And the templars are not alone in the adoration of the Emperor the Blood Angels and successors, the Novamarines and to an extent the Space Wolves see him as divine as well.
It's mostly the Ultramarines and more straightforward successors that still retain the notion of the imperial truth
I love the black Templar’s and the idea of a civil war would fuck me up
You know it’s funny the absolute second this come out I was reading about the Ophidium Gulf “Incident”. And I use the term “incident” oh so very loosely.
I think fabious had a play around with theyre gene stock while the apothecaries were distracted by abbadon doing a pole dance wearing only stockings and a jester hat
I'm surprised one of those don't have fist in the name that's because they are absolutely insane
Genetical flaw is clearly an new level of Angry Holy Rage or tumour somewhere that does so.
I believe it's not actually a flaw as such. It is of the warp, as the primarchs were partially of the warp. Just as Sanguineous's death causes a psychic shockwave, and subsequently affected his son's. Rogal Dorn has potentially affected his son's in a similar fashion, though not as acutely or consistently as the blood angels. I would be interested to know about any potential flaws in Ferris Manus's legion following his own death. Since there are only a few primarchs that are confirmed dead, this would be a good.measure for comparison.
gulliman: Let me by marine.
Sigusmand: NONE SHALL PASS.
I think the Black Templars can't decide whether they are a Space Marine chapter or a heavy metal band.
Rogal Dorn: “They are absolute lunatics”
I doubt that they would kill each other over it. They would either consider it as the holy emperor has bestowed his fury and rage upon them, or as an excuse to do another penitent crusade. Or both.
There is also another factor worth considering when it comes to the Black Templars' behavior - psycho conditioning. We know that the chapter has officially disbanded their librarium and the responsibilities of the latter have been transfered to their chaplains. This means that the chaplains hold much more power and sway than their cousins from codex-compliant chapters. This unbridled power can mean that they have a much higher influence over the training of neophytes and the criteria for their promotion to battle brothers, including the stage of psycho-conditioning during the implantation and growth process of their gene-seed organs.
TL;DR The chaplains could deliberately be selecting and/or creating much more fanatical astartes due to their unique position of power the lack of oversight from the rest of the chapter.
Black Templars, the Chapter closest to the infamous Angry Marines as canonically possible. Heck even the machine spirit of an Emperor-class titan can't resist an angry Black Templar (granted it had to face Grimaldus which is possibly one of the angriest)
This might be my personal headcanon but I always saw the Black Templar’s rage and perfectionism to a dark reflection of Rogal Dorns own traits. Dorn is steadfast and resolute but inflexible and incapable of accepting deviations in any plan. They’re Dorns unyielding defense twisted to rage and spite much how he cracked and ruthlessly hunter down the Traitors after the Heresy.
I think it has something to do with the iron cage or the genetic memory of dorns hatred for the traitor legions
Well, who knows anyway Happy Sanguinala & Merry Wolftime! :D
I think you need to check your sources.... Never once have the Black Templar been described as psychotic in fluff, ever. In fact in combat aside from yelling 'No Pity, No Remorse, No Fear!' on the charge, they're fairly quiet (Chaplains aside) as they follow in Sigismund's footsteps in fighting style. And you know what that was? Fight with honour. That was it. In combat Sigismund barely spoke, his moves so fluid offence and defence merged. The Emperor's Champions all fight the same way, to a lesser degere. Yes they're more aggressive, but its still only brutal efficiency with which they fight. The uniting fact across ALL Imperial Fists and decendants is that they're stubborn as hell and play nice with others (as Dorn has said to the effect of what's the point of the imperium if we fight amongst ourselves and don't look after its people). Civil War? Really? Amongst sons of Dorn?
This ep is a clutch at straws and makes me sad.
I remember reading somewhere that they do have a fault like the blood Angels where they feel dorns rage about what happened to the emperor
1:34 *PURRRRRRGING WIIIIIIITH MY KIIIIIIIIIIN!!! Intensifies*
I take issue with the characterization of what Galoolyman did at the Iron Cage as "saving" the Imperial Fists.
Rowboaty:
-breaks apart the legions so there was never able to be a concentrated fulcrum from which Imperial military endeavors could pivot
-spent too much effort during and post-heresy LARPing in Imperium Secundus to limit the damage to the infrastructure of the Imperium and the slow and flawed rebuilding
-prevented Rogal from finishing off the single MOST INTACT traitor legion at the Iron Cage as the final blow that killed the VIIth would have also served to destroy the IVth as well, making them a non-entity for the purpose of the forces of Chaos
-got bodied by Fulgrim before he could actually contribute anything that actually helped
CONFIRMED WORST PRIMARCH EVER!
We know that Black Templars were a special order with similar reputation within a Legion well before the Horus Heresy, so it his highly unprobable that they are a byproduct of later change. In this case I would argue that the Black Templars Chapter has been formed from a special kind of Imperial Fists that were present in the original Legion but no longer exist in present day chapter.
Rogal Dorn: Shut up Robot Girlyman
They most certainly don't have a genetic flaw, unless you deem zealously violent faith in the Emperor a genetic flaw.
Putting that inquisitorial status to good use, i see.
We hold no flaw but the enlighting fire of the Emperor which we take into battle for the Crusade never sleeps.
It is kind of hinted that they are the most likely have Dorns anger. Thing is, they are also not berserkers, all of Dorns sons are expert swordsmen regardless of chapter and the BT are no exception.
A genetic flaw in which the calm reasonable logic that is often found in my sons is replaced with never ending insanity and crusades
They channel Rogal's hatred for breaking desks.
"That is because they are absolute lunatics."
"~PUUUURGING WIIITH KIIIIIN~"
Don't forget the red thrist for the blood angels that's been around before the black rage
Sigismund, now known for fucking charging the Primarch of the Emperors Children. Amen.
Dreadnought voice: Brothers to partake in our crusade is to be immortal...
I do wish the BT would play more like a good CC army, like they did for near 10 years. Never really top tier army but still could do some wonderful close combat games.