If he has a master Satan who he follows does he have free will or does he have a choice as to whom he will follow? Also, given the choice between the two masters who would you follow?
Well, he refered to god as a slavemaster. Then refered to the devil as his master. Either way he seems to not want the free will if he chooses a "master". Even the bright side claiming a "Lord" and savior is claiming a master. I choose to serve the good by my own free will. If 1/3rd chose to rebel, then they are out numbered. Makes no sense to join a team who is outnumbered. Not why I do it though, helping my fellow man i earn Dharma, by purposely harming another for my own gain, I Incur Karma. This is the cosmic Law.
@@commontater2255 I believe the Nefarious has already answered your point. He tells Martin that having granted you free will he then says follow me and takes it away. That's why he rebels. I concede the Devil's point, but I claim he has made the same choice and a worse one. He would then say that is from my point of view and he would be right.
There's a lot that this movie does extremely well in revealing biblical principles. The character and nature of demons is expressed in a very eye opening way taken from interactions we read in the Bible. The suggestion that mankind was created to replace the angels comes against a few solid disputable points. Number one being that the angels still exist and are fulfilling their own purpose to God. Man has a separate distinct purpose. The Bible confirms both of these facts. The only reason I make this point is that all things need to be tested against the word of God for us to understand the truth He reveals.
@RT-gx3tw oh brother. I'm with you. I agree. Always back things up biblically. I mainly was focused on the fact these demons are doing everything they can to hurt God by hurting us, not because they think they can win, they know they lose in the end, thru just intent to hurt God on the way out. I always wondered why they fight against God if they know the outcome. Only on recent years have I had the realization that it's about doing damage on the way out. Does that make sense.? God bless, Brother...
@@notprfct_just4given Romans 8:18 NKJV [18] For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. I Corinthians 2:9 NKJV [9] But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
One thing that doesn't make sense is Nefarious seems to say that man was created to take the place of angels after angels fell, but angels and man were both created in the six days of creation. Lucifer did not sin until after God pronounced everything as "very good" which was done on the sixth day. So man could not have been created to " replace". Also the angels who didn't sin still exist in the presence and Glory of God. Nefarious acts as if all angels were cast out. The Bible says a third of heaven was cast out.
I was under the impression that angels were created first. Given that the garden of Eden holds any truth, how is it that "the wise old serpent, the one called the devil", was able to tempt man? It's said in Christianity that the angels were jealous of humans and found human females attractive enough to make sweet love to...😁 Creating an offspring of giants who's souls were damned and when died became demons. I'm no scholar tho... To me the Christian story of creation like an allegory for what really happened to humanity. A Non-human species interacted with us early in our human development causing us to advance much differently than the Creator had intended. Most religions tell this story as it varies. So I tend to believe it holds truth. Can't be absolutely sure tho...
@@saturniansun8110 Angels were created first. Most theologians seem to believe that they were created when the stars were created or sometime within that second or third day. What I was saying was that man was not created after the Angels had fallen as a replacement. Angels and man were both created and at the end of God's creation he said that it was very good. So we know that God would not say it was very good if sin had already entered into his creation.
@@RT-gx3tw assuming I can understand the mind of God here, which I don't fully...all souls would have been created at the same time. Bursting out pieces of oneself out of boredom? All I can decipher is that other our DNA was tampered with in early stages in our development this why "angels" were tasked to watch over us. And who am I to say that sin was ot developed to help me learn? I've learned my lessons the hard way,but have learned them well. Not to be repeated.
My understanding has always been that Genesis one, where it says, God created the heavens in the Earth, is an unspecified amount of time when a lot of this happened long before he started shaping the Earth and creating mankind. And then in Genesis two and onward, whenever that undefined amount of time passed, the rebellion was ended, and Lucifer became Satan, and then God decided to create man to replace them. That’s just my two. Cents.
@@josephrousell2818 God describes the creation in terms that are for our understanding of a 24 hour day. Many people try to stretch the time as if God needed a length of time to accomplish creation. Had God decided to create everything in the blink of an eye, He could have. Or just as easily he could have decided to do it over thousands of years. The 24 hour day and 7 day week is a standard of time we all use to this day and He established it for us from the beginning. Satans rebellion must have happened somewhere between the final day of creation and mans temptation in the garden. We have to remember that the fall of Lucifer occurred in heaven, which is outside of time as we know it. So it was not subject to any period of time passing on earth. We can only deduce certain conclusions based on the careful reading of Gods descriptions of the events. A lot of it is a, if this then that. And then that should be compared to the entirety of the Bible and character of God. At best it's still just us trying to put the pieces together.
Imagine being given eternal life, ALL ENCOMPASSING LOVE and ALL you have to do is NOT sin. And what? Do something once in awhile? Show love back? That's like asking YOUR kid to pick up HIS trash and help around the house and the kid.. Well, does this
You really didn’t understand what this man was basically talking about. I think the small words reference even went over your head and you didn’t understand what he was saying. It has nothing to do with sin and everything do with free will and the restrictions behind it.
@@DopeliveCity yup the truth is that demons were perfect and had knowledge of everything as angels. And it was more than one that chose to reject god. I wholeheartedly believe that a demon could convince anyone on earth that they are in the right given the opportunity to debate a human. And that the only thing that could keep humans from switching sides in that scenario would be love and loyalty to god alone and not logic. Logically, The demons most likely have a good point for why they decided to go into opposition towards god.
Definitely get that. Father of lies and such. Obligated to hide truth in the lies also. Demon should not be trusted. Knowing how to read between the lies is key.
The fact that we can have negative thoughts in heaven as we do on earth his terrifying. If it could happen to millions of angels....why can't it not happen to man?
It did in the garden of eden eve was tempted and then she gave into temptation and eat the frobidden fruit and adam did as well and thus sin enters the world and God sent his son to die for all us so we can turn from our sinful nature repent and follow The Lord Jesus Christ
The demon is half correct I will explain Let us assume that god created every host in heaven with free will. God does not want robotic worship. This assumption then sets the scene for the heavenly failed coup. Those angelic beings had the choice (free will) to praise or not praise God. Some chose to worship God (free some choseto overthrow God. Given that God does not want robotic worship - the choice to rebel was of free will. This demon states that the heavenly host praise God because God robotically demands it. thus, the demon is half correct. The heavenly beings who remain true to God do so out of free will. Those who rebelled (did propose to the other beings the idea that life would be better if "new management " was put into place. The "old management " disagreed and won. Here is where Satan and his cohorts fail to take responsibility for their actions and recognize that they freely chose to rebel (while the other heavenly beings chose not to rebell). The anger is misplaced. John Milton wrote paradise lost. In one part, Satan does not challenge God the father. Satan does not challenge God the holy spirit. Satan challenges God the son - a skinny perceived weakling. Satan realizes far too soon thst that God the son held all authorities of God and all powers thereof. Satan says, "who knew?" As Satan is soundly trounced and defeated. In another part. Satan says, "it is better to reign in hell then praise God in heaven.". The error this demon is thst he - his kind, his master, etc... all chose to rebel while the other half chose to not rebel.
@@saturniansun8110 Wanna see a fallen angel ? Look in the mirror. Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
You revolt against a supposedly ALL POWERFUL BEING I mean lets ignore the obvious problem with that plan 😂😂lmfao 😂😂 yeah demon's are obviously the masters of making very bad decisions aren't they 😂😂 for example how in the world did they think they had a chance against a ALL POWERFUL BEING AKA GOD 😂 this scene makes me laugh every time lol ⚡️⚡️⚡️🔥🔥🔥💪 God has no love or mercy for those foolish enough to challenge him lol all religions make that very clear 💪⚡️⚡️🔥🔥
@saturniansun8110 well its a movie based on a demon having a conversation with an atheist obviously there's going to be fear based mentality just like a horror movie lol
@amandabrundage4384 demon's always lie, even when a demon is speaking alot of facts or truth like in this scene of this movie they always mix lies and deceptions in there explanations, remember all demon's want is to destroy humans eternity the simplest way to do that is to manipulate our free will into believing lies and deceptions, it's the oldest trick in the book 📖
i rather serve a god than serve a cherab. thing is the demon and satan got 1 thing wrong and they cant understand. just bc u got will dont mean u have to destroy. god gave u will. for a reason balance. also ur will is great and u should use it to help creation u didnt. just bc ur free dont mean u just do what u want. it just means ur choices are you to bare thats all.
Well said. Just like forgiveness doesn't mean there isn't a price to pay for that sin. These so called angels would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. To many this means the physical world is hell, while the spiritual world is heaven. I disagree with this... Anything created by the creator has to have a divine purpose. To serve a greater good is better than to rule over a small minority. Who knows... Maybe Lucifer will make it back to God in a divine plan unbeknownst even to itself. I grew up with religiounists telling me angels did not have free will... I often asked, them how did one (or many) defy? Often there were crickets or egotistical answers. Now it's wide spread belief that these lower case "gods" do have free will. It's my personal opinion that non human entities interrupted our natural evolution as human beings and this religious telling is just a metaphor of what really happened.
I just watched an interview with a REAL Exorcist. He said that THIS movie was by far the CLOSEST thing to reality with possession!
praise the LORD IN JESUS CHRIST !!!!!
Lots of secrets in this conversation.
Man: god?! Demon: the enemy! Lol
Notice the referral to his master but the one who gives free will is the enemy.
If he has a master Satan who he follows does he have free will or does he have a choice as to whom he will follow? Also, given the choice between the two masters who would you follow?
Well, he refered to god as a slavemaster. Then refered to the devil as his master. Either way he seems to not want the free will if he chooses a "master". Even the bright side claiming a "Lord" and savior is claiming a master. I choose to serve the good by my own free will. If 1/3rd chose to rebel, then they are out numbered. Makes no sense to join a team who is outnumbered. Not why I do it though, helping my fellow man i earn Dharma, by purposely harming another for my own gain, I Incur Karma. This is the cosmic Law.
@@commontater2255 I believe the Nefarious has already answered your point. He tells Martin that having granted you free will he then says follow me and takes it away. That's why he rebels. I concede the Devil's point, but I claim he has made the same choice and a worse one. He would then say that is from my point of view and he would be right.
@@themouseonthebikeI totally agree with that statement
It's like politics, you've got 2 choices. Doesn't mean the choice you made is right or the alternative without merit.
I watched this today, and it was intense.
Wasn't it, tho. 👍
I watched this film last night. Excellent movie
I thought so too...😁
Magnificent. I've never seen this, but from the dialogue in this scene, it seems like it's gonna be great. It's terrifyingly accurate.
There's a lot that this movie does extremely well in revealing biblical principles. The character and nature of demons is expressed in a very eye opening way taken from interactions we read in the Bible. The suggestion that mankind was created to replace the angels comes against a few solid disputable points. Number one being that the angels still exist and are fulfilling their own purpose to God. Man has a separate distinct purpose. The Bible confirms both of these facts. The only reason I make this point is that all things need to be tested against the word of God for us to understand the truth He reveals.
@RT-gx3tw oh brother. I'm with you. I agree. Always back things up biblically. I mainly was focused on the fact these demons are doing everything they can to hurt God by hurting us, not because they think they can win, they know they lose in the end, thru just intent to hurt God on the way out. I always wondered why they fight against God if they know the outcome. Only on recent years have I had the realization that it's about doing damage on the way out. Does that make sense.?
God bless, Brother...
@@notprfct_just4given Romans 8:18 NKJV
[18] For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
I Corinthians 2:9 NKJV
[9] But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
I just watched an interview with a REAL Exorcist. He said that THIS movie was by far the CLOSEST thing to reality with possession!
Lots of Truths ❤
This movie is intense. Right up there with "The Exorcist".
One thing that doesn't make sense is Nefarious seems to say that man was created to take the place of angels after angels fell, but angels and man were both created in the six days of creation. Lucifer did not sin until after God pronounced everything as "very good" which was done on the sixth day. So man could not have been created to " replace". Also the angels who didn't sin still exist in the presence and Glory of God. Nefarious acts as if all angels were cast out. The Bible says a third of heaven was cast out.
I was under the impression that angels were created first. Given that the garden of Eden holds any truth, how is it that "the wise old serpent, the one called the devil", was able to tempt man? It's said in Christianity that the angels were jealous of humans and found human females attractive enough to make sweet love to...😁
Creating an offspring of giants who's souls were damned and when died became demons. I'm no scholar tho...
To me the Christian story of creation like an allegory for what really happened to humanity. A Non-human species interacted with us early in our human development causing us to advance much differently than the Creator had intended. Most religions tell this story as it varies. So I tend to believe it holds truth. Can't be absolutely sure tho...
@@saturniansun8110 Angels were created first. Most theologians seem to believe that they were created when the stars were created or sometime within that second or third day. What I was saying was that man was not created after the Angels had fallen as a replacement. Angels and man were both created and at the end of God's creation he said that it was very good. So we know that God would not say it was very good if sin had already entered into his creation.
@@RT-gx3tw assuming I can understand the mind of God here, which I don't fully...all souls would have been created at the same time. Bursting out pieces of oneself out of boredom? All I can decipher is that other our DNA was tampered with in early stages in our development this why "angels" were tasked to watch over us. And who am I to say that sin was ot developed to help me learn? I've learned my lessons the hard way,but have learned them well. Not to be repeated.
My understanding has always been that Genesis one, where it says, God created the heavens in the Earth, is an unspecified amount of time when a lot of this happened long before he started shaping the Earth and creating mankind. And then in Genesis two and onward, whenever that undefined amount of time passed, the rebellion was ended, and Lucifer became Satan, and then God decided to create man to replace them.
That’s just my two. Cents.
@@josephrousell2818 God describes the creation in terms that are for our understanding of a 24 hour day. Many people try to stretch the time as if God needed a length of time to accomplish creation. Had God decided to create everything in the blink of an eye, He could have. Or just as easily he could have decided to do it over thousands of years. The 24 hour day and 7 day week is a standard of time we all use to this day and He established it for us from the beginning. Satans rebellion must have happened somewhere between the final day of creation and mans temptation in the garden. We have to remember that the fall of Lucifer occurred in heaven, which is outside of time as we know it. So it was not subject to any period of time passing on earth. We can only deduce certain conclusions based on the careful reading of Gods descriptions of the events. A lot of it is a, if this then that. And then that should be compared to the entirety of the Bible and character of God. At best it's still just us trying to put the pieces together.
We all serve... The Most High God chose me to serve him as his eternal slave and I'm forever thankful.
I choose to serve, by my own free will.
What movie is that from?
Nefarious
Imagine being given eternal life, ALL ENCOMPASSING LOVE and ALL you have to do is NOT sin. And what? Do something once in awhile? Show love back? That's like asking YOUR kid to pick up HIS trash and help around the house and the kid.. Well, does this
You really didn’t understand what this man was basically talking about. I think the small words reference even went over your head and you didn’t understand what he was saying. It has nothing to do with sin and everything do with free will and the restrictions behind it.
@@DopeliveCity yup the truth is that demons were perfect and had knowledge of everything as angels. And it was more than one that chose to reject god. I wholeheartedly believe that a demon could convince anyone on earth that they are in the right given the opportunity to debate a human. And that the only thing that could keep humans from switching sides in that scenario would be love and loyalty to god alone and not logic. Logically, The demons most likely have a good point for why they decided to go into opposition towards god.
Deos Ubique Est..Never get theology from a Demon. Big lesson I got from this movie.
Definitely get that. Father of lies and such. Obligated to hide truth in the lies also. Demon should not be trusted. Knowing how to read between the lies is key.
@@saturniansun8110 Your god is the creator of lies, not Lucifer.
@@iongeneral tell me more about my personal 'belief' of God. Please...🤔😂
The fact that we can have negative thoughts in heaven as we do on earth his terrifying. If it could happen to millions of angels....why can't it not happen to man?
It did in the garden of eden eve was tempted and then she gave into temptation and eat the frobidden fruit and adam did as well and thus sin enters the world and God sent his son to die for all us so we can turn from our sinful nature repent and follow The Lord Jesus Christ
@user-dc2yp1mv3z This doesnt relate to my post.
I heard someone say "yes" to the guy in blue's question @ 2:36
You sure did. Heaven and hell are a place of mind, which overflows into a physical state .
The demon is making a good point. How unfair it is to create beings with free will to live under slavery. Sounds like narcism.
Ban the I$$$rael lobby
If you know the Hebrew words you know that the Angels were created three times because God asked the angels shall I make man
use your judgement
Fantastic movie...audience loved Hollywood hated
Dogma covers this..not new
The demon is half correct
I will explain
Let us assume that god created every host in heaven with free will.
God does not want robotic worship.
This assumption then sets the scene for the heavenly failed coup.
Those angelic beings had the choice (free will) to praise or not praise God.
Some chose to worship God (free some choseto overthrow God.
Given that God does not want robotic worship - the choice to rebel was of free will.
This demon states that the heavenly host praise God because God robotically demands it.
thus, the demon is half correct.
The heavenly beings who remain true to God do so out of free will.
Those who rebelled (did propose to the other beings the idea that life would be better if "new management " was put into place.
The "old management " disagreed and won.
Here is where Satan and his cohorts fail to take responsibility for their actions and recognize that they freely chose to rebel (while the other heavenly beings chose not to rebell).
The anger is misplaced.
John Milton wrote paradise lost.
In one part, Satan does not challenge God the father.
Satan does not challenge God the holy spirit.
Satan challenges God the son - a skinny perceived weakling.
Satan realizes far too soon thst that God the son held all authorities of God and all powers thereof.
Satan says, "who knew?" As Satan is soundly trounced and defeated.
In another part. Satan says, "it is better to reign in hell then praise God in heaven.".
The error this demon is thst he - his kind, his master, etc... all chose to rebel while the other half chose to not rebel.
Half truths. Sounds about right from a dark being. It's all about deception. 1/3 fallen according to the story. Interesting comment. Thank you
@@saturniansun8110
Wanna see a fallen angel ? Look in the mirror.
Only one Gospel:
The Gospel of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
You revolt against a supposedly ALL POWERFUL BEING I mean lets ignore the obvious problem with that plan 😂😂lmfao 😂😂 yeah demon's are obviously the masters of making very bad decisions aren't they 😂😂 for example how in the world did they think they had a chance against a ALL POWERFUL BEING AKA GOD 😂 this scene makes me laugh every time lol
⚡️⚡️⚡️🔥🔥🔥💪
God has no love or mercy for those foolish enough to challenge him lol all religions make that very clear 💪⚡️⚡️🔥🔥
This is fear based mentality.
@saturniansun8110 well its a movie based on a demon having a conversation with an atheist obviously there's going to be fear based mentality just like a horror movie lol
@@alexanderafxendiou8525 nevermind.
So is he lying so it sounds worst than what it is
@amandabrundage4384 demon's always lie, even when a demon is speaking alot of facts or truth like in this scene of this movie they always mix lies and deceptions in there explanations, remember all demon's want is to destroy humans eternity the simplest way to do that is to manipulate our free will into believing lies and deceptions, it's the oldest trick in the book 📖
i rather serve a god than serve a cherab. thing is the demon and satan got 1 thing wrong and they cant understand. just bc u got will dont mean u have to destroy. god gave u will. for a reason balance. also ur will is great and u should use it to help creation u didnt. just bc ur free dont mean u just do what u want. it just means ur choices are you to bare thats all.
Well said. Just like forgiveness doesn't mean there isn't a price to pay for that sin. These so called angels would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. To many this means the physical world is hell, while the spiritual world is heaven. I disagree with this...
Anything created by the creator has to have a divine purpose. To serve a greater good is better than to rule over a small minority. Who knows...
Maybe Lucifer will make it back to God in a divine plan unbeknownst even to itself. I grew up with religiounists telling me angels did not have free will...
I often asked, them how did one (or many)
defy? Often there were crickets or egotistical answers. Now it's wide spread belief that these lower case "gods" do have free will. It's my personal opinion that non human entities interrupted our natural evolution as human beings and this religious telling is just a metaphor of what really happened.
Loved this comment. Very insightful.