Im starting to think that Eve has replaced Lilith in some way. High-resolution versions of the family pictures from Luci's room were uploaded on Twitter, were you can see that Lilith doesn't look anything like "Lilith" from the flashback. There, she wears a wedding ring, but "Lilith" doesn't wear one on the trading card and isn't listed with her last name Morningstar either. Also, Lilith always wears elegant clothes with gloves and jewelry, not like in the flashback and trading card this plain purple dress. Maybe Alastor lost his soul to Eve, who is using him to keep an eye on Charlie. Eve doesn't want Charlie to achieve Lilith's dreams, so she stopped Charlie from being influenced by Lucifer and his dreams. Maybe Alastor became hostile towards Lucifer because he is the reason Eve became the origin of evil and his soul owner. But the question is if the replacement was permanently, because there is one picture with Carlie as a teenager with the original Lilith. But I am sure the Lilith in the flashback is not the real Lilith.
One of the things that make sense in all theories revolving around Lilith is that she is somewhat missing and has not divorced her husband. They are listed as a separated married couple after all. So should Eve really kidnapped and impersonate Lilith it makes a lot of sense. Eitherway I am convinced that Eve has to do something with Lilith missing.
Lucifer has depression which can diminish your memory. It’s not that we don’t care, we literally have memory issues which explains why he was so anxious to ask where she was. He probably knew she told him at some point but can’t remember what she said.
Oh, that's an interesting take. When I saw the scene, I thought it was more of a case of him hoping she had given up on the idea of the hotel so she wouldn't get hurt like he did.
And his obsession with the rubber ducks, felt like it was tied to happy memories he had of Charlie being impressed with him. (In Charlie's flash back, it is a duck that elevates to an angelic state.)
The strange thing is that Charlie's the only person who claims they "split". However, we see Lucifer still has family photos with Lilith all over and he looks at them longingly. He also appears to still be wearing his wedding ring? I'm wondering if there's something more to the "split" between Lucifer and Lilith, as in maybe something out of their control. I'm also very curious why Lilith's face is hidden in the flashback yet her face is clear in the family photos. There's something fishy going on.
Yeah someone on here mentioned that it could be Eve, and they're somehow connected and/or switched places at some point. Because Lilith does look very different in poctures and so on. Even just how her hair looks, Lilith in the pictures we see with shorter hair on top, and Eve with more long in general, and in the flashback, we just see long hair, which also goes with her trading card titled Lilith, not Liloth Morningstar. And since we see her in pictures it doesn't make sense for her to be blacked out. And keeping Charlie away from Lucifer. Idk man, so many different possibilities, I'm just super hyped to find out the truth! It's so cool how all these little details can mean so much
"Split" may just simply means "she left" (no divorce) because during Vox's song he sung that "Hell's been better since he SPLIT" implying that Alastor left. Maybe its the same as Lilith, she just left without saying anything since even Charlie don't know her whereabouts.
Another thing being Lilith in some of the pictures sports a large pair of horns, while the Lilith that picks Charlie up in the flashback and the one in the picture of herself, Lucifer and Charlie having fun does not. Then again Lilith in heaven doesn’t seem to have horns and they could be a hat.
I like the theory that while adam is the embodiment of everything a woman hates in a man, lilith is the embodiment of everything a man hates in a woman.
Yeah Ada!m in this show should have been a man who has regrets. After all when God asked him why he ate from the forbidden fruit. Adam said Eve was the one who gave him the fruit he said so in a way that made it sound like its all her fault when he didn't mean it that way. And Adam would have regrets of since he ate the forbidden fruit humanity has been doomed to live a shorter live span and die. Adam should not have been a jerk in this show. He was not even the one who expected Lilith or Eve to submit to him God commander Lilith and later Eve to submit to Adam. I imagine Adam while he be confused to why Lilith must submit to him he get ever Lilith must obey God. Lilith doesn't, and instead it's Eve who chooses to submit and love Adam.@@josephbulkin9222
Not sure if it’s an animation error or not, but Lilith’s hairstyle is different as she’s carrying Charlie away from when she picks her up. Specifically, her hair is down as she takes Charlie (along with no drawn face) but is combed back like in her photos as she walks away. What if Charlie’s memories have been tampered with and lillith is really Eve?
Maybe Lilith’s hair is different because she is going to sleep, she was in her pajamas. Because it is Charlie’s memories I imagine she simply blocked out her mother’s face from her memory. Either because she’s hurt she hasn’t seen her mom in 7 years. Or Charlie blames her for not being the reason she isn’t close to her dad.
Charlie seems to love her mother due to her desire to make her proud in Episode 1. The animation may be simply because she was in her pijamas and not showing her face was to make the viewers more excited about Lilith's debut. Which is working. And we don’t even know if Lilith is separating her child and ex, Charlie may simply had misunderstood Lucifer's actions due to his depression.
Valid points! Only things I’d question are A. We know what Lilith looks like from the photos on the wall in episode 5, so a face reveal seems odd. And B. I should’ve clarified that her hairstyle is different within the scene, not just from the photos, which could just be an animation error. Her hair is down at first then looks combed back as she’s carrying Charlie who is looking back at Lucifer. Its in the top of the frame
Anyone can change their hairstyle whenever. The face, I'm not so sure. Maybe they just wanted to save it for when Lilith was officially introduced into the show
My head cannon is that his true form is him in giant form, with his suit being red with a scale pattern, hooved feet, his wings become batlike, and his head becomes a dragon one with 3-4 faces.
Maybe, if Adam is foolish enough (and he likely is) to hold true to that threat to go for the hotel first (which may be the season finale) ? I am pretty sure that if you try to touch Charlie, Lucifer is gonna snap in a "Don't you dare touch my baby" type of moment.
I like the idea of Lilith being just as bad as Adam. Would be a good twist that since Charlie has met Adam and seen just how bad he is if she sees the same traits in her mother when next they meet and that the story at the beginning was just the same type of lie as Adam tells the angels.
Toxic Male and Toxic Female, both representations of the negative aspects of their respective genders. Adam domineering and controlling, Lilith manipulative and deceitful
I genuinely think that Lilith was just putting Charlie to sleep and the latter got sad because she wanted to play with Lucifer late at night, not that Lilith has a plan to control Lucifer through their daughter. I think Charlie may simply misunderstood Lucifer's intentions because they got distanced, like most would do if their depressive parents tried to reach out. Or this may sound bad, but maybe we have only seen Lucifer's depression in a good day and not in a bad day, and Lilith wanted to ensure her daughter wouldn’t see Lucifer in bad days so she would have a happy growth. In my opinion, if any character is a toxic female in this show, it’s probably Velvette, who makes potions (probably aphrodisiacs) for a pimp. PD: Alastor may just want to troll the strongest being of Hell. He seems to be the kind of person who will risk his own life for a good laugh.
Nah litlth is toxic because the way it looks which both times we see her seriously in the story she is trying to get power i wouldn't be surprised if we found out if adam was never evil.@@alexandraguardian9840
I think it would be very much good writting. Adam, as a toxic male embodiment: egotistical, demeaning, disrespectful, arrogant, controlling, cocky, selfish Lilith, as a toxic female embodiment: manipulative, dishonest, opportunist, gaslighter, mean, vain, also controlling
There is definitely something going on there, Lucifer seems like he is imprisoned by more than just "depression" in his room. The way he longingly looks on as little Charlie is taken away from him, but doesn't protest, seems like he knows if he steps out of line, something bad would happen, possibly to Charlie. He absolutely loves his daughter, and she idolizes him, so what has really kept them apart all these years is fascinating to me, and I really hope we get an answer in the show.
Here's my theory: Adam will be sent to hell, with his only option of redemption and returning to heaven is through the hazbin hotel (as his punishment)
@@anvos658 Cherubs are different from Adam, he could likely be sent to the Hazbin Hotel to be a better person (And hopefully be a main stay character in the show) instead of just getting killed, because that would kinda ruin the main plot of the show. As its main narrative is that even if you are a vile and sinful being you can still have a second chance. And I hope that once Adam is in the Hazbin hotel he becomes a good guy.
Does that mean you eternally bounce back between heaven and hell? Like if Adam goes to hell and is killed there will he die forever? If he somehow becomes a better person before dying does he just go back to heaven?
there a 50/50 adam was killed my a angelic dagger, snakeman was killed by a angelic blast which is unknown to have the same properties as angelic steel
There must be a reason why Lilith must be keeping Charlie away from Lucifer. Lucifer doesn't seem like a bad father. He's a Fantastic and Swell guy. He seems Cool in this show.
@@thesymbiotenation.4552 the lores already state that Lucifer and Lilith love each other to the bone, so I dont see why she would do that and that they take turns having the belt in the family. I even believe they didnt seperate from each other but instead Charlie thinks they seperated in that span of 7 years instead of being seperated during the time all 3 were together.
Possible explanation for why Lucifer doesn't remember Charlie mentioning the hotel is when one is in an anxiety/depression spiral, they stop making new memories, and often depressives will then lie about not having any memories of the thing out embarrassment for their condition.
I really like the theory that charlies parents became distant because lucifer was so focused on his mistake, and couldnt accept his new 'role' unlike lilith who embraced it and empowered the people. Maybe at first he tried to be optimistic like with his theme parks and hotels, or even obsessed with trying to change everything but gave up on his people, which could have led to lilith no longer seeing herself as his 'equal' in the relationship and began to resent him for giving in to the depression and tried to guide charlie on a diffferent path to embrace her role and her people.
Because of the way the hair is depicted on the woman taking Charlie away from Lucifer, and how it matches Eve, my theory is that is Eve. Maybe she acted as Charlie's nanny or an "Aunt". I think Eve has replaced Lilith in some way after injuring Lilith just enough to keep her out of the way, or made a deal with Adam to keep Lilith trapped in heaven.
I think Eve, transformed into Roo, took over Lilith. My reasons for this is that Lilith and the family seem genuinely happy in the past pictures. This seven year issue is presented as abrupt. In the telling she's presented as having straight long hair and that sort of evil red smile from Eve in the tale when she ate the apple makes me think she's the source. I like the idea of Lilith as toxic female but I like it much better from Eve who is made from Adam's rib, rather than Lilith who being made the same way, as Adam could have more choice and so too Lilith. As to how this happened? Lilith is close to the sinners and wanted to inspire. Maybe she wanted to inspire Eve who had become depressed and instead Eve, envious of Lilith's first wife of Adam status, took her over to be the first wife. Something Lilith wouldn't expect or know how to combat hence still being taken over. To be the one in charge of all the inspiration and possessively take Charlie as hers, not letting Lucifer connect with her. I can see Eve blaming men for her predicament, seeing them as like Adam and seeing the behavior of the sinners that come from her for so long. Adam seems to value his daughters more, maybe Eve does too, particularly if you think of Cain and Abel. I can see big hero moments from Charlie, Lucifer and Vaggie if this is the case with Lilith. Vaggie as one of Adam's daughters being someone who can show the good and speak sense. Charlie as a daughter Eve may have raised for a time and someone who is a hold for Lilith. Lucifer being the man Lilith chose and fell in love with. I think Alastor meanwhile may be a final villain. He might turncoat for Charlie but i think he's the one Eve chose. That's my theory. Tl;Dr for those who don't want to read I think Eve is the root of all evil and possessing a Lilith who had wanted to help her. I think alastor might be tied to both. I think Charlie will be a final turning point along with her efforts.
Mostly agree with you. While I don't think Lilith is being taken over, more kidnapped. They already looked nearly like twins in the opening and all, plus we saw a "low-level" demon shapeshift. I assume Eve could be able to fool a depressed Lucifer. And Alastor is definitely either tied to Eve or Lilith, he will either help the hotel or be their downfall imo
@@dominiklange8382 Oh that could be it too I just think possession adds an interesting sort of element. By being envious and choosing herself Eve takes the choice away from Lilith. It's also eviler when you think about it because Lilith chose her own fate and then had it taken away. While she can't do anything except watch her body do what she doesn't want. It also makes Eve a more evil villain and I do think it more interesting because Eve is usually presented as a soft, sweet submissive lady in most interpretations.
@@athannyx6815 also makes it more reasonable why Lucifer didn't pick up on it. Not being able to telling Lilith and Eve apart because they look so much alike should have made him suspicious if one day his wife was acting off. Wouldn't your first thought be 'wait is this the twin I know about?' There's depression sure but come on Lulu wtf. But if they ain't twins and it's a Possession I would give the guy more of a break.
Oh yeah I made a small video on that a bit ago. Glad to see I’m not the only one that came to this conclusion about Roo being Eve. Slowly but surely I’m seeing the answers I’ve found reflected in the community and that’s pretty awesome haha.
My autistic friends and I (who is also autistic) went ‘Lucifer is so definitely autistic’ or at least autistic coded. The obsession with rubber ducks, the trouble with relationships, and so forth.
I’m pretty sure it was canonized by vizviepop but idk, a lot of times images of her replying to stuff is fake soo yeah.. I saw a Pinterest comment with the image that viz said he was autistic and some unrelated stuff but he is definitely autistic coded lmao
I think Lilith is trying to upend the system in place so that everyone can prepare for Roo, and that she split from Lucifer because of his depression preventing any meaningful changes from Hell's side of things on his part. She empowered the denizens of Hell, but Lucifer's depression made it impossible for anything to truly come from that. Especially when the exterminations started.
@@tidedetergent5859 A character mentioned who is some kind of entity similar to the old ones that was released early on. IN essence I think this theory is that Lillith is trying to basically end the cycle between heaven and hell by forcing some kind of catalyst so they can face Roo later on. Because neither of the two can do it themselves.
Man that would hurt my heart if Lilith did that intentionally to Lucifer and Charlie and the fact he wants her back but Isn’t trying to force it but giving her what she wants makes me feel so bad and Charlie is going to get caught in the middle I can imagine
@punkzombiemaiden5427 I mean, it will become cliché if it's power drama. The writers stated in an older stream that Lilith and Lucifer love each other very much. I hope this will not be retconned in the show.
You know something I've been thinking about, Emily seems to be the youngest (at least treated like it by Sera and when she sings she mentions "I am not a child to be protected") of the angels (granted we haven't seen many) that lead heaven. Sera said that Emily's role is to bring Joy to the people of Heaven. Was Emily Lucifer's replacement in Heaven among the seraphim? They seem to have similar dispositions about humanity and wanting everyone to be happy (I'm referring to the version of Lucifer before he "fell"). Maybe Sera was worried that Emily was following her predecessor's footsteps
her being the embodiment of toxic feminity could be really interesting. Because we haven't seen neither Lilith nor Adam eat the apple of knowledge...this would mean Adam didn't become toxic masculinity but was "born" with it and Lilith was made as his equal
That's been my argument as well. Why the hell would two beings created the same way result in only one of them being a douche and the other being wonderful and amazing? Makes no sense... not to mention rather misandrist if true
I genuinely think that Lilith was just putting Charlie to sleep and the latter got sad because she wanted to play with Lucifer late at night, not that Lilith has a plan to control Lucifer through their daughter. I think Charlie may simply misunderstood Lucifer's intentions because they got distanced, like most would do if their depressive parents tried to reach out. Or this may sound bad, but maybe we have only seen Lucifer's depression in a good day and not in a bad day, and Lilith wanted to ensure her daughter wouldn’t see Lucifer in bad days so she would have a happy growth. In my opinion, if any character is a toxic female in this show, it’s probably Velvette, who makes potions (probably aphrodisiacs) for a pimp. PD: Alastor may just want to troll the strongest being of Hell. He seems to be the kind of person who will risk his own life for a good laugh.
I feel like if "toxic femininity " existed in this universe, it would have to be done in a very specific way. Femininity is traditionally associated with being kind, empathetic, gentle, and demure. If a "toxic" version were to exist, it would most likely look like a character (whatever the gender, men can be feminine too) who is a subservient doormat to the ones around them. Who wouldn't be able to stand up for themselves because they feel too guilty to step on others' toes.
1.[Thinking possitive]It's possible that Lucifer had a mental breakdown, and Lilith saw that, so she took Charlie away to preserve the image Charlie had of her father. 2. While I have no doubt Alastor and Lilith are contracted, I do believe Al's code demands to protect Charlie due to her being the fairest in the land. Yes, she's naive, sheltered, and a bleeding heart with daddy issues. But Charlie is also honest, true to her word, and holds conviction. Someone like that will always stir things up.
Idk. I think Lilith and Lucifer are still in love of some kind. Their vision may just have been opposite enough after Lucifer's punishment that it drove a wage. Depression is one hell of a thing. So Lilith is shown singing to hell maybe as a way to encourage her people. Maybe to help with an uprising, maybe just to be the positive to Lucifer's negative. That maybe where Charlie gets her over enthusiastic style to loving her people. You can still be in love and grow apart. Lucifer's obsession with his projects maybe his own way of trying to bring positive out of his negative. To the point where it could help suppress his depression even by the tiniest bit. And I agree about him maybe feeling like a burden if he just trya to call Charlie to just chat.
It's really suspicious that Luvifer and Charlie think the same thing of each other without the other being portrayed like that. In the pilot Charlie says that Lucifer may be right about her. I don't think that Lucifer really said something mean to her or maybe it was in range or sadness and he wish he hand't said that. Either way it's not what Lucifer really thinks of Charlie. Maybe Lilith said that thing to Charlie and framed Lucifer for those words. Also the only time we ever saw Lilith for real was when she was taking Charlie away from Lucifer. Maybe it was because Charlie should sleep at that hour but it was shown so cold that it looks like there was a sinister meaning behind that.
After hearing what you had to say about Lucifer and Charlie’s miscommunication about their LACK of communication, I just wanted to say as someone with autism and ADHD, I can heavily relate to Lucifer in that situation. I wish I could put it into concise words, but I’m still figuring out new things about his character and how it reminds me of my experience with my mental health. Also the way he’s written as related to the sin of Pride; if you watch episode 5 a kajillion times like I’ve been doing you start noticing all the little micro expressions (KUDOS, Spindlehorse!) and it tells us a lot about what every character is feeling about specific things. It’s really fantastic character writing. I’m sure this is true for other episodes too like how Alastor is just getting a kick out of messing with Vox in Stayed Gone compared to how his true emotions slip through his eyes in Hell’s Greatest Dad. Ik that’s a bit off topic for this video but MAN I just love it.
It’s often been a common trend in royal/noble type families to either have generation gaps or awkward relationships with their kids. The latter often revolves around the parents passing off the actual paternal duties to the servants either because of being too busy or because don’t have a sense of responsibility. In Charlie’s case, it’s the former. As high ranking people within the underworld, some sort of order is meant to be made by both the royals and the nobles, which likely means that Lucifer and Lilith were rather busy during Charlie’s childhood. The scene we saw in ep.5 just seems like a regular interaction with a busy parent and a young child trying to spend time together in the late hours, with Lilith approaching to help put Charlie back to bed, despite both father and daughter really wanting to spend more time together. Something that while not intentional, but can’t be helped due to how chaotic their realm can tend to be.
Tbh I immediately felt like they are hiding Liliths face for a reason, I think she has sort of an angry look at him but dont want to give that information away yet.
I agree with this, I think that Eve or Lilith are the big bads, driving a wedge between heaven and hell, driving a wedge between Lucifer and his so alike him Daughter, and both of them can't see it, blinded by love
What do you think of Eve Replacement theory? Eve would be a shapeshiter and has killed or kidnapped Lilth or is possessing Lilith in this theory. That Eve is in Hell and replaced Lilith as a reverse of what happened in Creation, that after becoming the first sinner she wanted to take down Heaven and Adam and wanted to take over Hell. I think the evidence of this is Liliths sudden change in personality and the fact flashback lilith and Liliths card looks far more like in Eve in the storybook then her other art or even Lilith in the same storybook, obscured blank face except when she smiles a very familar smile?
This was something that baffled me because the way Charlie described him made it sound like he was a distant parent who didn't care or want to have a part in her life but he seemed to really want to be a part of her life, but Lilith being the reason why makes to much sense.
3:57 It would make sense that Lilith may have lied to both of them for some unknown reason or maybe Lilith is protecting them from something much worse maybe that's why she disappeared
I’m not sure if anyone noticed but when Luci and Charlie were singing their duet “More Then Anything” together they say that they can start again and not be pulled apart again. I feel like that was Lilith but at the same time, when they showed that scene of her taking her from Luci it looked more like eve idk waiting to see what happens. Because we still haven’t seen her she is also how all this got started.
What is strange is that, way back when, Vivzie described Lucifer and Lilith’s relationship as being like Jack Skellington and Sally. But if that’s the case, I wonder if maybe Vivzie changed her mind at some point, because they sound nothing like that so far. I can’t help but feel like there is a lot of emotional manipulation from Lilith based on what little we’ve seen, and it sounds like she’s going to intervene directly now that Charlie is making actual progress. Also, Alastor seems not only desperate for freedom, but rather bent on gaining control of everything, though I can’t tell if it’s true or him being in denial over the fact that the hotel seems to be having some effect on him, which seems to disturb him somewhat.
I would like it if Lucifer's depression could cause him to do weird and Lilith just didn't want him to take Charlie down this dark. Making it more of a gray area
yeah but in the all the pictures, you can see them all happy together. I don’t think Lucifer was depressed during that time because he seemed genuinely happy.
@@rubi6330 depression comes in highs and lows, we don't know if Lucifer could have really bad lows. But this could be me really wanting Lilith to not be a bad guy
@@galaxiesplantcorner9328 the theories of al making a deal with Lilith is hard since Lilith wouldn’t make any deal with anyone unless eve plays a part in it
I'm really hoping we see more of Lilith in the upcoming episodes. I know it might break some suspense but her suddenly appearing during a fight in episode 8 would have me hype af
He didn't remember her saying she was living in a hotel... And directly after being introduced to Vaggie he called her Maggie... He either has some sort of attention problem or a memory problem. And given that he said he has depression, that could certainly explain his poor memory and his unwillingness to reach out and try to connect for such a long time. It can sap your will to do literally anything. And being thrown out of heaven for his ideas, then banished to hell for his interaction with eve (which seem to be two different events), that is certainly enough to make someone depressed. He seemed loving and caring while charlie was young, but just sat there and did nothing while Lilith took her away from him which begs the question: why? Why did he allow her to keep their daughter away from him like that? Was his depression so bad already at that point that he couldn't even fight for her? And of course after Lilith left, i'm sure his depression got even worse.
I mean Lilith and Alastor both have solid reasons to cozy up to Charlie if they’re in cahoots. Because while Lilith might be provided powers from lucifer, Charlie would have them naturally. Put yourself in a place of power and control over Charlie then remove lucifer as a player from the game and suddenly you control the only powerful source.
I really wanted to know about lilith and eve i really don't want them to be the same person imagine everyone thinking eve was the queen all this time and if it's true it's totally messed up
My bf had an interesting theory based on the weird way Alastor was acting and what Husk said. We know someone owns Alastor somehow, and we also know Alastor has beef with Luc. Even though luc clearly doesn't know him. He also keeps trying to get close to Charlie and TV guy is freaking out about him making a deal with Charlie. Lilith has been missing 7 years and Alastor was gone 7 years. Lilith has beef with Alastor as well. So his thought was that Alastor may have made a deal with Lilith with the goal or getting his soul back from Luc who doesn't even remember him (something he would also hate). Lilith wants to get back at Luc for something he did, hence the cold shoulder, and she's working with Alastor to do that as well. We know from Mimzy that Alastor did used to be a human, and he's a little obsessed with power so it would make sense. The theory aligns with this a lot
my theory is that maybe lilith separated charlie and lucifer to protect charlie because as we see in episode 6 heaven sees the strengthening of hell as a bad thing for them because they think it will attack them so they kill them once a year but maybe when they find out that the sage family that controls hell broke up then hell is weaker if lilith didn't do it maybe they would consider them a threat and instead of what we see in the series maybe they would attack them because they think if they destroy their family maybe they would be safer but maybe lilith finds out and decides to separate charli from lucifer, then when she grows up, she leaves her too, but maybe she's been making a plan all this time to bring her family together again. As she puts her plan into action maybe maybe after seven years she finds out that Adam plans to kill everyone she sends Alistair to protect Charlie and that's why he comes to the hotel. I like this because she would like Lilith to be presented as a good mother and not leave Charlie alone for her own selfish reasons but to protect her it would also explain Alistair's reaction to Lucifer's arrival at the hotel maybe his appearance and the possibility of Charlie and her reuniting father would put her whole plan at risk so alistair tries to stop it by pretending he cares more about charlie.
Another idea is that Lilith tried to keep Charlie away from lucifer to keep her from getting ideas from lucifer that would make her fight against heaven in order to protect her from getting hurt
Lilith was Adam's equal and she rejected the notion of being the subservient wife. I highly doubt she wanted to play housewife with Lucifer, either. She's planning a takeover, and using Charlie as the focal point. But, where does that Lovecraftian family come into play?
I just really hope the family comes back together. Charlie and Lucifer are so amazing and need to make their bond over again and Lilith... I hope something bad simply happened... Lilith and Lucifer have a really cool background and all of the sudden she dissappears - maybe she's putting a plan into motion after all this time. I just want her to love her family like Lucifer does
I really hope that it was Eve, who somehow managed to replace Lilith at some point and drove this wedge between Lucifer and Charlie because they just seemed like such a happy family and I’d hate it to be Lilith merely wanting more power/control, but we’ll have to wait and see.🥺🥺🥺 The only reason I could see Lilith driving the wedge between them that is at least somewhat understandable is if she was trying to keep Lucifer’s opinions about Sinners from rubbing off on Charlie, thus making her value them instead of dismissing them.🤔 Also, loving the new characters being added to the background of your videos.😊❤❤❤
I just realized that the show says Charlie hasn't heard from her mother in 7 years not that Lilith has been missing for 7 years like Alastor was, is this a red herring?
Enjoyed the "dad-off" song, but I was confused by the motivations. Lucifer: I can fix up the hotel for you! (Does not do that) Alastor: I feel threatened and will suggest that I'm Charlie's parental figure (even though there hasn't been any set up to imply that) Like, he has literally told Charlie he doesn't believe the hotel will work?
Counter theory. Lucifer thinks that Charlie doesn't wanna see him because he is depressed and self sabotaging (a very common theme in the show). And Charlie doesn't think he wants to see her because he always kept to himself in his workshop. Going off them saying Lucifer and Lilith ARE, not were, deeply in love in a livestream years ago. As well as going off the fact the show keeps setting up negative expectations only to subvert it with something good, I'm of the opinion that Lilith is off trying to find a way to give Lucifer the will to dream again. Which is why I think she sent Alastor to help Charlie, make sure her dream doesn't die like Lucifer's did. The reason Lilith is pulling Charlie away from Lucifer in the flashback seems obvious by what Charlie is wearing, a night gown. I read it as Charlie not being able to sleep and going to see what her daddy was doing all the time. Lilith taking her away is just her bringing her back to bed.
Honestly i just feel bad for the man he has to fight depression and still rule hell while trying to not bring depression to Charlie bc of her “daddy issues” And Charlie in the other hand Has to keep the hotel together keep her friends safe try to be perfect with her father while vaggie is pretty much giving her signs “hang up” and she also wants to bring equality to sinners and angels
I didn't start watching until Episode 5, so my first impression of Lucifer was 'absent dad who is too busy to care about his daughter', which seemed reinforced when I saw 'Hell's Greatest Dad' out of context. It looked like Lucifer was just coming in to make it all about him. But then I watched the full episode and had greater context, and now I wonder if that's how it is, that Lilith planted the idea to Charlie. The fact we didn't see her face in Charlie's flashback has significance, we just need to figure out what that significance is.
I think all you said is true one of the further evidence is that when you look at Lucifer closer on his left hand he’s still wearing his wedding ring. He still loves Lilith.
I wonder why Lilith kept Charlie away from Lucifer plus it's very suspicious that she doesn't have a face during the flashback. Also I hope that Lucifer and Lilith don't have a strained relationship if this is the case.😨
Am i the only one who thinks Lilith and Lucifer split because Lilith wants revenge for being cast out to hell while Lucifer doesn't even wanna try fighting back? She could be forming her own army with Eve to strike
A great hint towards Lilith being the bad mother is her role in some myths. Lilith is the mother of all demons, and God cursed her for daring to leave Adam. Everyday a certain percentage of her children(demons) will be killed, until she returns to Adam. Lilith, enraged by this went on a killing spree killing newborn children. In reality, this is reffering to a sudden infant death syndrome. Children under 1 year of age sometimes die without an explainable cause. Interestingly, boys are more likely to suffer this fate(60%), because she hates all men thanks to how Adam treated her. In the old days, infants had tags with the names of Archangels, instead of their own for protection. That is, because Archangel Michael and Gabriel, who found out about this went to bargain with Lilith. They made a deal, that the deaths of her children would stop, but she would stop killing human children in return. She promised not to kill any children under something like a month, if they are protected by the sign of these two angels. So, maybe that is why Lilith could be a bad mother. And if not, it is an interesting part of history how a biblical legend reffered to a very real and weird phenomenon
In Charlie's opening story, she states that, after being condemned to Hell, Lucifer fell into a depression while Lilith was the continuing inspiration for Hell until she disappeared seven years ago. Charlie idolized both of her parents, but much of her admiration for Lucifer was for whom he used to be, while for Lilith, it was for whom she continued to be. I suspect we'll find out four things in Season 2: #1: That Lilith often sang to the sinner demons about how you should "rise up" (and I will do a cartwheel if there is an actual song with that exact name). #2: That Charlie interpreted this to mean "rise up and take control of your life". #3: That Lilith actually meant it to mean "rise up and rebel". #4: That she's been continuing to scheme for the seven years she's been missing. I still think Lilith made a deal with Lute to stop singing and disappear in exchange for Lute ending the exterminations, albeit with Lilith knowing full well that A) the only place someone with a profile as high as her own could possibly disappear to would be Heaven, and B) Adam would only let the exterminations end over his dead body. For a while, that probably felt like she had Lute under her control just as much as she did Alastor. But because of the way the deal was worded (they probably both pledged to each other to preserve the balance), Adam's death and Charlie's interference now means Lute has leverage over Lilith. Which, thanks to the sunglasses, we don't know if she was shocked or angered by this, but either way, Lilith's feelings about this sudden shift can't have been good.
I’d like to think that both Lilith and Lucifer is in a somewhat long distance relationship with Lilith in hiding to escape from the extermination. The reason why is because it stated by Lute that Lucifer put a pardon of his hellborn subjects alongside Charlie but there’s a catch. Hellborn. Just because Lilith is part of Hell’s royal family she is still a sinner which a loophole that someone like Adam would exploit to exact revenge towards Lilith and Lucifer.
I subscribed to you at the beginning of this vid but when you asked again at the end, it confirmed for me that i made the right choice subscribing 😂 I really enjoy your videos and theories! I love all the information you use to back up your theories, but mostly I like how you can explain your theories without sounding condescending or egotistical! I look forward to watching more from you 🖤🥀🌙✨
My guess is that Lucifers depression turned him into a workaholic, and it turned into an unhealthy way to cope with his depression. In the process, he isolated himself from Lilith and Charlie, which eventually lead to their marriage falling apart. Part of the reason why Charlie's mom Lilith might have kept Charlie away from him may be that she was trying keep her from becoming isolated with him (she was trying to get her out more and may have been worried about her internalizing her father's issues and Lucifer becoming a bad influence on Charlie's own mental health. Instead, she internalized her mother's in that she wants to unite and save her people like her mother wished to, but failed).
It can’t be a coincidence that we haven’t seen or heard from eve at all in the slightest. She’s technically the first sin I can’t imagine someone like that not having something to do with Al or Lilith’s current situations. 🧐
I'm actually more of the opinion that lillith does care about her family. The scene that you chose as a way to separate them is more like Charlie is getting ready for bed and Lilith is merely putting her to bed. I think that Lilith would tell Charlie that her Father is a busy angel and he will come to her when ready because Lucifer doesn't want Charlie to know about his depression, even if she sees hints of sadness. Charlie and her dad not getting along could simply be because his depression is doing it's best to separate the two. Lucifer could see his daughter grow up. Teenage years are rough where she could have said stay away from me in a teenage way and Lucifer could take it personally and just... stayed away. Lucifer would only call her if he needed to, but respect her space. In regards to Lilith and Alastor... I don't actually think that Alastor is on a leash as implied. I think it's more like Lilith and Alastor have made a deal where they are essentially doing each other a massive favor. Alastor takes care of Charlie and Lilith does something that will help Alastor more. Not sure what, but I think that's the case.
Tbh i always took "lulu" as a nickname for Lilith, not Lusifer. Mainly bc in "the owl house" lulu is a nickname hoody uses on Lilith throughout season 2. I much prefer for lulu world to be named after Lilth, it makes Lilith and lusifer relationship way more wholssom imo, which make it even more sad that it seem to have fallen apart over the years
The opening of the first episode is only half right as Vivian put her own twist on the actual story to create this world. Why i thought it was hilarious that adam was eating ribs at their first meeting. Eve was created from one of Adams ribs.
Lucifer is so much like me it's insane. I'd love to see him and Charlie have more father/daughter moments in future episodes. Really build their bond again since someone seems to be manipulating them into being apart.
Lucifer isn’t evil, he wanted humans to have free will. To learn from mistakes or to make technological advances. He even says “THEY WERE GIFTED FREE WILL AND LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID WITH IT… EVERYTHING’S TERRIBLE!” He calls the sinners the worst and not to expect them to be redeemed, meaning he really thinks that there’s no hope and that this is his punishment. Lilith is the evil one who fed off the fear, anger, sadness and pain in hell. You can tell from the intro she enjoyed it.
In same ways Lucifer and Charlie remind me of Fizz and Blitz from Helluva Boss. Being close but then being seperated, being told by a third party the other doesn't want to seem them, misreading each other intentions for years, and then finally actually talking and listening to each other leading to understanding and rekindling of the old relationship.
“My daughter wants to see me! Take that depression.” Best line by Lucifer.
agreed.
Mood
@@samurexatlas7373 that’s a mood Gabriella . 😢🥺
@@rainbowquartz9513 *eats cereals*
@@Rapture-nv5vj at least Lucifer doesn’t eat cereal while watching/ streaming soap operas while slumping away in the dark.
Im starting to think that Eve has replaced Lilith in some way. High-resolution versions of the family pictures from Luci's room were uploaded on Twitter, were you can see that Lilith doesn't look anything like "Lilith" from the flashback. There, she wears a wedding ring, but "Lilith" doesn't wear one on the trading card and isn't listed with her last name Morningstar either. Also, Lilith always wears elegant clothes with gloves and jewelry, not like in the flashback and trading card this plain purple dress. Maybe Alastor lost his soul to Eve, who is using him to keep an eye on Charlie. Eve doesn't want Charlie to achieve Lilith's dreams, so she stopped Charlie from being influenced by Lucifer and his dreams. Maybe Alastor became hostile towards Lucifer because he is the reason Eve became the origin of evil and his soul owner. But the question is if the replacement was permanently, because there is one picture with Carlie as a teenager with the original Lilith. But I am sure the Lilith in the flashback is not the real Lilith.
That would make sense honestly because like Adam, Eve would probably also have some sort of grudge against Lucifer & his family
I will accept this reason for a villainous ‘Lilith’
One of the things that make sense in all theories revolving around Lilith is that she is somewhat missing and has not divorced her husband. They are listed as a separated married couple after all. So should Eve really kidnapped and impersonate Lilith it makes a lot of sense.
Eitherway I am convinced that Eve has to do something with Lilith missing.
That brings to mind a question, where is Eve in all this?
You'd think she'd be in one of the afterlives...
Also the hair form, if that makes sense, it’s different in the flashback
Lucifer has depression which can diminish your memory. It’s not that we don’t care, we literally have memory issues which explains why he was so anxious to ask where she was. He probably knew she told him at some point but can’t remember what she said.
Oh, that's an interesting take. When I saw the scene, I thought it was more of a case of him hoping she had given up on the idea of the hotel so she wouldn't get hurt like he did.
That and I do get a lot of ADHD vibes from Lucifer (and even Charlie to some point).
@@pandemoniumeris that too! Did you know that ADHD and Autism are hereditary? Having one parent with it increases your chances by 50%
And his obsession with the rubber ducks, felt like it was tied to happy memories he had of Charlie being impressed with him. (In Charlie's flash back, it is a duck that elevates to an angelic state.)
@@Shadow1Yazyup my dad does and both me and my brother has it
The strange thing is that Charlie's the only person who claims they "split". However, we see Lucifer still has family photos with Lilith all over and he looks at them longingly. He also appears to still be wearing his wedding ring?
I'm wondering if there's something more to the "split" between Lucifer and Lilith, as in maybe something out of their control.
I'm also very curious why Lilith's face is hidden in the flashback yet her face is clear in the family photos.
There's something fishy going on.
He’s probs in denial
Yeah someone on here mentioned that it could be Eve, and they're somehow connected and/or switched places at some point. Because Lilith does look very different in poctures and so on. Even just how her hair looks, Lilith in the pictures we see with shorter hair on top, and Eve with more long in general, and in the flashback, we just see long hair, which also goes with her trading card titled Lilith, not Liloth Morningstar. And since we see her in pictures it doesn't make sense for her to be blacked out. And keeping Charlie away from Lucifer. Idk man, so many different possibilities, I'm just super hyped to find out the truth! It's so cool how all these little details can mean so much
"Split" may just simply means "she left" (no divorce) because during Vox's song he sung that "Hell's been better since he SPLIT" implying that Alastor left. Maybe its the same as Lilith, she just left without saying anything since even Charlie don't know her whereabouts.
Or Eve is Charlie’s mom and Lilith is a basically a liar and maybe even secretly is the route of all evil.
Another thing being Lilith in some of the pictures sports a large pair of horns, while the Lilith that picks Charlie up in the flashback and the one in the picture of herself, Lucifer and Charlie having fun does not. Then again Lilith in heaven doesn’t seem to have horns and they could be a hat.
I like the theory that while adam is the embodiment of everything a woman hates in a man, lilith is the embodiment of everything a man hates in a woman.
That's silly, Adam has a wife and he loved her. Dont believe the lies of Hazbin Hotel.
@@josephbulkin9222 Dude thats the original myth 🤦♀️...
Yeah Ada!m in this show should have been a man who has regrets. After all when God asked him why he ate from the forbidden fruit. Adam said Eve was the one who gave him the fruit he said so in a way that made it sound like its all her fault when he didn't mean it that way. And Adam would have regrets of since he ate the forbidden fruit humanity has been doomed to live a shorter live span and die. Adam should not have been a jerk in this show. He was not even the one who expected Lilith or Eve to submit to him God commander Lilith and later Eve to submit to Adam. I imagine Adam while he be confused to why Lilith must submit to him he get ever Lilith must obey God. Lilith doesn't, and instead it's Eve who chooses to submit and love Adam.@@josephbulkin9222
@@josephbulkin9222 Hazbin isn't trying to present itself as an accurate retelling LMAO it's just a story based on/inspired by the myths.
@@josephbulkin9222 We know its just a fictional tv show lol separate the fiction of the show from the reality of the real story.
Not sure if it’s an animation error or not, but Lilith’s hairstyle is different as she’s carrying Charlie away from when she picks her up. Specifically, her hair is down as she takes Charlie (along with no drawn face) but is combed back like in her photos as she walks away. What if Charlie’s memories have been tampered with and lillith is really Eve?
Maybe Lilith’s hair is different because she is going to sleep, she was in her pajamas. Because it is Charlie’s memories I imagine she simply blocked out her mother’s face from her memory. Either because she’s hurt she hasn’t seen her mom in 7 years. Or Charlie blames her for not being the reason she isn’t close to her dad.
Charlie seems to love her mother due to her desire to make her proud in Episode 1. The animation may be simply because she was in her pijamas and not showing her face was to make the viewers more excited about Lilith's debut. Which is working. And we don’t even know if Lilith is separating her child and ex, Charlie may simply had misunderstood Lucifer's actions due to his depression.
Valid points! Only things I’d question are A. We know what Lilith looks like from the photos on the wall in episode 5, so a face reveal seems odd. And B. I should’ve clarified that her hairstyle is different within the scene, not just from the photos, which could just be an animation error. Her hair is down at first then looks combed back as she’s carrying Charlie who is looking back at Lucifer. Its in the top of the frame
Anyone can change their hairstyle whenever. The face, I'm not so sure. Maybe they just wanted to save it for when Lilith was officially introduced into the show
@@demonprincess9680it’s not a whenever thing, it’s a within seconds without doing anything thing
Man i hope in one episode they show lucifer just going crazy and reminding everyone why he is the ruler of hell
Would like to see him in beast mode
My head cannon is that his true form is him in giant form, with his suit being red with a scale pattern, hooved feet, his wings become batlike, and his head becomes a dragon one with 3-4 faces.
Maybe, if Adam is foolish enough (and he likely is) to hold true to that threat to go for the hotel first (which may be the season finale) ? I am pretty sure that if you try to touch Charlie, Lucifer is gonna snap in a "Don't you dare touch my baby" type of moment.
@@orianefaton1885lucifer: I just want to talk to him
I like the idea of Lilith being just as bad as Adam. Would be a good twist that since Charlie has met Adam and seen just how bad he is if she sees the same traits in her mother when next they meet and that the story at the beginning was just the same type of lie as Adam tells the angels.
After all, they were created in the same moment and they were peer in everything. Maybe, they are both jerks, just Lilith can hide that.
Toxic Male and Toxic Female, both representations of the negative aspects of their respective genders. Adam domineering and controlling, Lilith manipulative and deceitful
I genuinely think that Lilith was just putting Charlie to sleep and the latter got sad because she wanted to play with Lucifer late at night, not that Lilith has a plan to control Lucifer through their daughter. I think Charlie may simply misunderstood Lucifer's intentions because they got distanced, like most would do if their depressive parents tried to reach out. Or this may sound bad, but maybe we have only seen Lucifer's depression in a good day and not in a bad day, and Lilith wanted to ensure her daughter wouldn’t see Lucifer in bad days so she would have a happy growth.
In my opinion, if any character is a toxic female in this show, it’s probably Velvette, who makes potions (probably aphrodisiacs) for a pimp.
PD: Alastor may just want to troll the strongest being of Hell. He seems to be the kind of person who will risk his own life for a good laugh.
Nah litlth is toxic because the way it looks which both times we see her seriously in the story she is trying to get power i wouldn't be surprised if we found out if adam was never evil.@@alexandraguardian9840
I think it would be very much good writting.
Adam, as a toxic male embodiment: egotistical, demeaning, disrespectful, arrogant, controlling, cocky, selfish
Lilith, as a toxic female embodiment: manipulative, dishonest, opportunist, gaslighter, mean, vain, also controlling
I loved how Lucifer is so awkward and he's like, "you like women? I like women too, we have that in common!" XD
Maybe lilith say to him when you can stop being over protective (crontrolling lilith hates that) you can take her
not being a prick, but its "said" not "say". When you SAY something, you're doing it presently. Said, is past tense.
@@Morebluethanblueeverycouldbe
@@Bees_Inked oh sorry english is not my fist languge
All good, dude. I figured it wasn't. I'd totally wanna be told :)
@@Morebluethanblueeverycouldbe
So sorry about the audio today, my work PC is broken and I'm trying to figure out my secondary set up
It's okay👍
No worries 😊
No need to apologize. It happens.
You're all cool.👍
Like video
There is definitely something going on there, Lucifer seems like he is imprisoned by more than just "depression" in his room. The way he longingly looks on as little Charlie is taken away from him, but doesn't protest, seems like he knows if he steps out of line, something bad would happen, possibly to Charlie. He absolutely loves his daughter, and she idolizes him, so what has really kept them apart all these years is fascinating to me, and I really hope we get an answer in the show.
Am i the only one hoping the Morningstar Family can just come back together
No, you are not.
MEEE
No, ur not the only one! I especially want Lilith and Lucifer to get back together 😭😭
yes. Lucifer deserves better!
Maybe that will be a part of a happy ending? Or I’m just too much of a wishful thinker 😢
Here's my theory: Adam will be sent to hell, with his only option of redemption and returning to heaven is through the hazbin hotel (as his punishment)
We saw from the Cherubs they don't really send you to hell, just banish you from returning.
@@anvos658 Cherubs are different from Adam, he could likely be sent to the Hazbin Hotel to be a better person (And hopefully be a main stay character in the show) instead of just getting killed, because that would kinda ruin the main plot of the show. As its main narrative is that even if you are a vile and sinful being you can still have a second chance.
And I hope that once Adam is in the Hazbin hotel he becomes a good guy.
I'm honestly praying this happens.
Does that mean you eternally bounce back between heaven and hell? Like if Adam goes to hell and is killed there will he die forever? If he somehow becomes a better person before dying does he just go back to heaven?
there a 50/50 adam was killed my a angelic dagger, snakeman was killed by a angelic blast which is unknown to have the same properties as angelic steel
There must be a reason why Lilith must be keeping Charlie away from Lucifer. Lucifer doesn't seem like a bad father. He's a Fantastic and Swell guy. He seems Cool in this show.
Lilith probably doesn't trust Lucifer with Charlie after Lucifer became decilutioned with his dreams
@@thesymbiotenation.4552 the lores already state that Lucifer and Lilith love each other to the bone, so I dont see why she would do that and that they take turns having the belt in the family. I even believe they didnt seperate from each other but instead Charlie thinks they seperated in that span of 7 years instead of being seperated during the time all 3 were together.
Nahh it's called bitter baby mama syndrome, very common
@@braincell4536 That might actually made sense there.
There is a theory that Lilith is trying to go to war with heaven and she needs Charlie to do that
If anyone paid attention Lilith in the photo and episode 1 story, her hair is combed back in the front. In episode 5, "lilith" had bangs.
She probs had her hair down?
She can change her hairstyle
@punkzombiemaiden5427 That is true, but it seems Vivien is hinting something.
Possible explanation for why Lucifer doesn't remember Charlie mentioning the hotel is when one is in an anxiety/depression spiral, they stop making new memories, and often depressives will then lie about not having any memories of the thing out embarrassment for their condition.
I really like the theory that charlies parents became distant because lucifer was so focused on his mistake, and couldnt accept his new 'role' unlike lilith who embraced it and empowered the people. Maybe at first he tried to be optimistic like with his theme parks and hotels, or even obsessed with trying to change everything but gave up on his people, which could have led to lilith no longer seeing herself as his 'equal' in the relationship and began to resent him for giving in to the depression and tried to guide charlie on a diffferent path to embrace her role and her people.
"Take that, Depression!"
Best line in the series so far
Because of the way the hair is depicted on the woman taking Charlie away from Lucifer, and how it matches Eve, my theory is that is Eve. Maybe she acted as Charlie's nanny or an "Aunt". I think Eve has replaced Lilith in some way after injuring Lilith just enough to keep her out of the way, or made a deal with Adam to keep Lilith trapped in heaven.
Maybe Eve went to heaven, and Adam went to hell originally, but she switched places with him somehow to take Lilith’s spot
I think Eve, transformed into Roo, took over Lilith. My reasons for this is that Lilith and the family seem genuinely happy in the past pictures. This seven year issue is presented as abrupt. In the telling she's presented as having straight long hair and that sort of evil red smile from Eve in the tale when she ate the apple makes me think she's the source. I like the idea of Lilith as toxic female but I like it much better from Eve who is made from Adam's rib, rather than Lilith who being made the same way, as Adam could have more choice and so too Lilith.
As to how this happened? Lilith is close to the sinners and wanted to inspire. Maybe she wanted to inspire Eve who had become depressed and instead Eve, envious of Lilith's first wife of Adam status, took her over to be the first wife. Something Lilith wouldn't expect or know how to combat hence still being taken over. To be the one in charge of all the inspiration and possessively take Charlie as hers, not letting Lucifer connect with her. I can see Eve blaming men for her predicament, seeing them as like Adam and seeing the behavior of the sinners that come from her for so long. Adam seems to value his daughters more, maybe Eve does too, particularly if you think of Cain and Abel.
I can see big hero moments from Charlie, Lucifer and Vaggie if this is the case with Lilith. Vaggie as one of Adam's daughters being someone who can show the good and speak sense. Charlie as a daughter Eve may have raised for a time and someone who is a hold for Lilith. Lucifer being the man Lilith chose and fell in love with. I think Alastor meanwhile may be a final villain. He might turncoat for Charlie but i think he's the one Eve chose.
That's my theory. Tl;Dr for those who don't want to read I think Eve is the root of all evil and possessing a Lilith who had wanted to help her. I think alastor might be tied to both. I think Charlie will be a final turning point along with her efforts.
Mostly agree with you. While I don't think Lilith is being taken over, more kidnapped. They already looked nearly like twins in the opening and all, plus we saw a "low-level" demon shapeshift. I assume Eve could be able to fool a depressed Lucifer.
And Alastor is definitely either tied to Eve or Lilith, he will either help the hotel or be their downfall imo
Pretty good theory!!
@@dominiklange8382 Oh that could be it too I just think possession adds an interesting sort of element. By being envious and choosing herself Eve takes the choice away from Lilith. It's also eviler when you think about it because Lilith chose her own fate and then had it taken away. While she can't do anything except watch her body do what she doesn't want. It also makes Eve a more evil villain and I do think it more interesting because Eve is usually presented as a soft, sweet submissive lady in most interpretations.
@@athannyx6815 also makes it more reasonable why Lucifer didn't pick up on it. Not being able to telling Lilith and Eve apart because they look so much alike should have made him suspicious if one day his wife was acting off. Wouldn't your first thought be 'wait is this the twin I know about?' There's depression sure but come on Lulu wtf. But if they ain't twins and it's a Possession I would give the guy more of a break.
Oh yeah I made a small video on that a bit ago. Glad to see I’m not the only one that came to this conclusion about Roo being Eve. Slowly but surely I’m seeing the answers I’ve found reflected in the community and that’s pretty awesome haha.
My autistic friends and I (who is also autistic) went ‘Lucifer is so definitely autistic’ or at least autistic coded. The obsession with rubber ducks, the trouble with relationships, and so forth.
Yeah, I hear others saying Luci was neurodivegent as well.
I’m pretty sure it was canonized by vizviepop but idk, a lot of times images of her replying to stuff is fake soo yeah.. I saw a Pinterest comment with the image that viz said he was autistic and some unrelated stuff but he is definitely autistic coded lmao
I think Lilith is trying to upend the system in place so that everyone can prepare for Roo, and that she split from Lucifer because of his depression preventing any meaningful changes from Hell's side of things on his part. She empowered the denizens of Hell, but Lucifer's depression made it impossible for anything to truly come from that. Especially when the exterminations started.
Whose Roo??
@@tidedetergent5859 A character mentioned who is some kind of entity similar to the old ones that was released early on. IN essence I think this theory is that Lillith is trying to basically end the cycle between heaven and hell by forcing some kind of catalyst so they can face Roo later on. Because neither of the two can do it themselves.
Man that would hurt my heart if Lilith did that intentionally to Lucifer and Charlie and the fact he wants her back but Isn’t trying to force it but giving her what she wants makes me feel so bad and Charlie is going to get caught in the middle I can imagine
I don’t think Lilith would do like look at the family pictures of them they genuinely look so happy but idk
I’m hoping it’s the case
As much as the idea of the power couple it would be boring to watch
That’s why theres drama.
@punkzombiemaiden5427 I mean, it will become cliché if it's power drama. The writers stated in an older stream that Lilith and Lucifer love each other very much. I hope this will not be retconned in the show.
@@insertname9736 yeah!
Unless they were required to change it.@@insertname9736
You know something I've been thinking about, Emily seems to be the youngest (at least treated like it by Sera and when she sings she mentions "I am not a child to be protected") of the angels (granted we haven't seen many) that lead heaven. Sera said that Emily's role is to bring Joy to the people of Heaven. Was Emily Lucifer's replacement in Heaven among the seraphim? They seem to have similar dispositions about humanity and wanting everyone to be happy (I'm referring to the version of Lucifer before he "fell"). Maybe Sera was worried that Emily was following her predecessor's footsteps
"Take that, depression" I don't think anyone was ready for that line from the literal king of hell
Given Lucifer was super depressed, maybe he just wasn’t able to be a good father.
Makes sense, almost everything has been the man's fault.
her being the embodiment of toxic feminity could be really interesting.
Because we haven't seen neither Lilith nor Adam eat the apple of knowledge...this would mean Adam didn't become toxic masculinity but was "born" with it and Lilith was made as his equal
That's been my argument as well. Why the hell would two beings created the same way result in only one of them being a douche and the other being wonderful and amazing? Makes no sense... not to mention rather misandrist if true
I mean people can choose to be good@@DelightfullyMADD
I genuinely think that Lilith was just putting Charlie to sleep and the latter got sad because she wanted to play with Lucifer late at night, not that Lilith has a plan to control Lucifer through their daughter. I think Charlie may simply misunderstood Lucifer's intentions because they got distanced, like most would do if their depressive parents tried to reach out. Or this may sound bad, but maybe we have only seen Lucifer's depression in a good day and not in a bad day, and Lilith wanted to ensure her daughter wouldn’t see Lucifer in bad days so she would have a happy growth.
In my opinion, if any character is a toxic female in this show, it’s probably Velvette, who makes potions (probably aphrodisiacs) for a pimp.
PD: Alastor may just want to troll the strongest being of Hell. He seems to be the kind of person who will risk his own life for a good laugh.
@@DelightfullyMADDThat’s not necessarily true. Twins are almost born at the same time and their personalities can be different.
I feel like if "toxic femininity " existed in this universe, it would have to be done in a very specific way.
Femininity is traditionally associated with being kind, empathetic, gentle, and demure. If a "toxic" version were to exist, it would most likely look like a character (whatever the gender, men can be feminine too) who is a subservient doormat to the ones around them. Who wouldn't be able to stand up for themselves because they feel too guilty to step on others' toes.
With parents like Adam and Eve, it´s no wonder that Cain became "The Man who Invented Murder" and was possibly the first mortal soul to go to Hell.
1.[Thinking possitive]It's possible that Lucifer had a mental breakdown, and Lilith saw that, so she took Charlie away to preserve the image Charlie had of her father.
2. While I have no doubt Alastor and Lilith are contracted, I do believe Al's code demands to protect Charlie due to her being the fairest in the land. Yes, she's naive, sheltered, and a bleeding heart with daddy issues. But Charlie is also honest, true to her word, and holds conviction. Someone like that will always stir things up.
Wait a minute, I just realized Al narrows his eyes at Lilith in the family photo.
What the hell
His eye twitches when he first see's Lucifer. And after shaking his apple cane, Al wipes his hands on his coat like he just touched something dirty.
@@TryssemTavern Could be that he hates both the Morningstars, for different reasons
Lucifer has become my favorite character of this show, he so easy going and happy, depressed yes but strangely happy as well
Idk. I think Lilith and Lucifer are still in love of some kind. Their vision may just have been opposite enough after Lucifer's punishment that it drove a wage. Depression is one hell of a thing.
So Lilith is shown singing to hell maybe as a way to encourage her people. Maybe to help with an uprising, maybe just to be the positive to Lucifer's negative. That maybe where Charlie gets her over enthusiastic style to loving her people.
You can still be in love and grow apart. Lucifer's obsession with his projects maybe his own way of trying to bring positive out of his negative. To the point where it could help suppress his depression even by the tiniest bit.
And I agree about him maybe feeling like a burden if he just trya to call Charlie to just chat.
Yess I was saying the same thing
Lucifer and Charlie may have grown apart during her Goth Teen phase, as seen by the picture on the wall in his workshop.
In classical texts, Lilith and Adam are stated to have "come from the same soil" it is very easy to read that as them being the same on the inside
Lucifer is just so relatable he's my new favorite character
Its interesting to notice that even though they are split up, Lucifer is still wearing his wedding ring.
This man has the most amazing mind I've ever seen in my whole life.
It's really suspicious that Luvifer and Charlie think the same thing of each other without the other being portrayed like that. In the pilot Charlie says that Lucifer may be right about her. I don't think that Lucifer really said something mean to her or maybe it was in range or sadness and he wish he hand't said that. Either way it's not what Lucifer really thinks of Charlie. Maybe Lilith said that thing to Charlie and framed Lucifer for those words. Also the only time we ever saw Lilith for real was when she was taking Charlie away from Lucifer. Maybe it was because Charlie should sleep at that hour but it was shown so cold that it looks like there was a sinister meaning behind that.
After hearing what you had to say about Lucifer and Charlie’s miscommunication about their LACK of communication, I just wanted to say as someone with autism and ADHD, I can heavily relate to Lucifer in that situation. I wish I could put it into concise words, but I’m still figuring out new things about his character and how it reminds me of my experience with my mental health.
Also the way he’s written as related to the sin of Pride; if you watch episode 5 a kajillion times like I’ve been doing you start noticing all the little micro expressions (KUDOS, Spindlehorse!) and it tells us a lot about what every character is feeling about specific things. It’s really fantastic character writing. I’m sure this is true for other episodes too like how Alastor is just getting a kick out of messing with Vox in Stayed Gone compared to how his true emotions slip through his eyes in Hell’s Greatest Dad.
Ik that’s a bit off topic for this video but MAN I just love it.
It’s often been a common trend in royal/noble type families to either have generation gaps or awkward relationships with their kids. The latter often revolves around the parents passing off the actual paternal duties to the servants either because of being too busy or because don’t have a sense of responsibility.
In Charlie’s case, it’s the former. As high ranking people within the underworld, some sort of order is meant to be made by both the royals and the nobles, which likely means that Lucifer and Lilith were rather busy during Charlie’s childhood. The scene we saw in ep.5 just seems like a regular interaction with a busy parent and a young child trying to spend time together in the late hours, with Lilith approaching to help put Charlie back to bed, despite both father and daughter really wanting to spend more time together. Something that while not intentional, but can’t be helped due to how chaotic their realm can tend to be.
Tbh I immediately felt like they are hiding Liliths face for a reason, I think she has sort of an angry look at him but dont want to give that information away yet.
in the show, did the first humans have horns, cause adam has horns as an angle and lilith is depicted with horns in hell
I love watching Hazbin Hotel theory videos👍
I agree with this, I think that Eve or Lilith are the big bads, driving a wedge between heaven and hell, driving a wedge between Lucifer and his so alike him Daughter, and both of them can't see it, blinded by love
Charlie's mom and the Radio demon disappearing for 7 years, well do you know what disappear even longer? "The next episode of Hazbin Hotel"
Well… if Lilith is the true antagonist in Hazbin Hotel, that’d be a major twist.
I want to see it, because of the drama
I like how the saying “Lilith lied to lucifer” is basically almost alliteration
Just finished the last episode. Screaming. SCREAMING. All the theories have been so solid.
If this is true this would actually break my heart in a way
What do you think of Eve Replacement theory?
Eve would be a shapeshiter and has killed or kidnapped Lilth or is possessing Lilith in this theory.
That Eve is in Hell and replaced Lilith as a reverse of what happened in Creation, that after becoming the first sinner she wanted to take down Heaven and Adam and wanted to take over Hell.
I think the evidence of this is Liliths sudden change in personality and the fact flashback lilith and Liliths card looks far more like in Eve in the storybook then her other art or even Lilith in the same storybook, obscured blank face except when she smiles a very familar smile?
This was something that baffled me because the way Charlie described him made it sound like he was a distant parent who didn't care or want to have a part in her life but he seemed to really want to be a part of her life, but Lilith being the reason why makes to much sense.
3:57 It would make sense that Lilith may have lied to both of them for some unknown reason or maybe Lilith is protecting them from something much worse maybe that's why she disappeared
I’m not sure if anyone noticed but when Luci and Charlie were singing their duet “More Then Anything” together they say that they can start again and not be pulled apart again. I feel like that was Lilith but at the same time, when they showed that scene of her taking her from Luci it looked more like eve idk waiting to see what happens. Because we still haven’t seen her she is also how all this got started.
2:30 - 2:42 okay. ouch. went right for my jugular with that description. I guess there’s a reason I enjoy Lucifer so much.
Yeah I cried when I wrote it for the record.
Plot twist: Lilith is the true sin of pride. But though I might be wrong
Was I the only one who noticed the mug husk is holding, it says “Fu
What is strange is that, way back when, Vivzie described Lucifer and Lilith’s relationship as being like Jack Skellington and Sally. But if that’s the case, I wonder if maybe Vivzie changed her mind at some point, because they sound nothing like that so far. I can’t help but feel like there is a lot of emotional manipulation from Lilith based on what little we’ve seen, and it sounds like she’s going to intervene directly now that Charlie is making actual progress. Also, Alastor seems not only desperate for freedom, but rather bent on gaining control of everything, though I can’t tell if it’s true or him being in denial over the fact that the hotel seems to be having some effect on him, which seems to disturb him somewhat.
I would like it if Lucifer's depression could cause him to do weird and Lilith just didn't want him to take Charlie down this dark. Making it more of a gray area
yeah but in the all the pictures, you can see them all happy together. I don’t think Lucifer was depressed during that time because he seemed genuinely happy.
@@rubi6330 depression comes in highs and lows, we don't know if Lucifer could have really bad lows. But this could be me really wanting Lilith to not be a bad guy
@@galaxiesplantcorner9328 Lilith is definitely not the bad guy, if she was, she would have made hellworse not sing and uprise it
@@rubi6330 true
@@galaxiesplantcorner9328 the theories of al making a deal with Lilith is hard since Lilith wouldn’t make any deal with anyone unless eve plays a part in it
I'm really hoping we see more of Lilith in the upcoming episodes. I know it might break some suspense but her suddenly appearing during a fight in episode 8 would have me hype af
He didn't remember her saying she was living in a hotel...
And directly after being introduced to Vaggie he called her Maggie...
He either has some sort of attention problem or a memory problem. And given that he said he has depression, that could certainly explain his poor memory and his unwillingness to reach out and try to connect for such a long time. It can sap your will to do literally anything.
And being thrown out of heaven for his ideas, then banished to hell for his interaction with eve (which seem to be two different events), that is certainly enough to make someone depressed. He seemed loving and caring while charlie was young, but just sat there and did nothing while Lilith took her away from him which begs the question: why? Why did he allow her to keep their daughter away from him like that? Was his depression so bad already at that point that he couldn't even fight for her? And of course after Lilith left, i'm sure his depression got even worse.
I love how bro just casually gaslights us at the end to subscribe😭
I mean Lilith and Alastor both have solid reasons to cozy up to Charlie if they’re in cahoots. Because while Lilith might be provided powers from lucifer, Charlie would have them naturally. Put yourself in a place of power and control over Charlie then remove lucifer as a player from the game and suddenly you control the only powerful source.
I really wanted to know about lilith and eve i really don't want them to be the same person imagine everyone thinking eve was the queen all this time and if it's true it's totally messed up
My bf had an interesting theory based on the weird way Alastor was acting and what Husk said. We know someone owns Alastor somehow, and we also know Alastor has beef with Luc. Even though luc clearly doesn't know him. He also keeps trying to get close to Charlie and TV guy is freaking out about him making a deal with Charlie. Lilith has been missing 7 years and Alastor was gone 7 years. Lilith has beef with Alastor as well. So his thought was that Alastor may have made a deal with Lilith with the goal or getting his soul back from Luc who doesn't even remember him (something he would also hate). Lilith wants to get back at Luc for something he did, hence the cold shoulder, and she's working with Alastor to do that as well. We know from Mimzy that Alastor did used to be a human, and he's a little obsessed with power so it would make sense. The theory aligns with this a lot
I don't think lillith is eve. I think lillith is just twisted by her own ambitions. Which is far more compelling as a villain
1:23 I think that other guy with the too hat is Leviathan, the Sin of Envy
you're so seriously cool and real for these connections
6:21 So she pegged him, got it.
(Jk, but it reminded me about Millie and Moxxie's... Fun stuff)
my theory is that maybe lilith separated charlie and lucifer to protect charlie because as we see in episode 6 heaven sees the strengthening of hell as a bad thing for them because they think it will attack them so they kill them once a year but maybe when they find out that the sage family that controls hell broke up then hell is weaker if lilith didn't do it maybe they would consider them a threat and instead of what we see in the series maybe they would attack them because they think if they destroy their family maybe they would be safer but maybe lilith finds out and decides to separate charli from lucifer, then when she grows up, she leaves her too, but maybe she's been making a plan all this time to bring her family together again. As she puts her plan into action maybe maybe after seven years she finds out that Adam plans to kill everyone she sends Alistair to protect Charlie and that's why he comes to the hotel. I like this because she would like Lilith to be presented as a good mother and not leave Charlie alone for her own selfish reasons but to protect her it would also explain Alistair's reaction to Lucifer's arrival at the hotel maybe his appearance and the possibility of Charlie and her reuniting father would put her whole plan at risk so alistair tries to stop it by pretending he cares more about charlie.
Another idea is that Lilith tried to keep Charlie away from lucifer to keep her from getting ideas from lucifer that would make her fight against heaven in order to protect her from getting hurt
My daughter wants to see me take that depression best line of the show
The idea that Eve is masquerading as Lilith is downright depressing and disturbing tbh. Poor Lucifer 😭
Lilith was Adam's equal and she rejected the notion of being the subservient wife. I highly doubt she wanted to play housewife with Lucifer, either. She's planning a takeover, and using Charlie as the focal point. But, where does that Lovecraftian family come into play?
I just really hope the family comes back together. Charlie and Lucifer are so amazing and need to make their bond over again and Lilith... I hope something bad simply happened... Lilith and Lucifer have a really cool background and all of the sudden she dissappears - maybe she's putting a plan into motion after all this time. I just want her to love her family like Lucifer does
I really hope that it was Eve, who somehow managed to replace Lilith at some point and drove this wedge between Lucifer and Charlie because they just seemed like such a happy family and I’d hate it to be Lilith merely wanting more power/control, but we’ll have to wait and see.🥺🥺🥺 The only reason I could see Lilith driving the wedge between them that is at least somewhat understandable is if she was trying to keep Lucifer’s opinions about Sinners from rubbing off on Charlie, thus making her value them instead of dismissing them.🤔
Also, loving the new characters being added to the background of your videos.😊❤❤❤
I just realized that the show says Charlie hasn't heard from her mother in 7 years not that Lilith has been missing for 7 years like Alastor was, is this a red herring?
Enjoyed the "dad-off" song, but I was confused by the motivations.
Lucifer: I can fix up the hotel for you! (Does not do that)
Alastor: I feel threatened and will suggest that I'm Charlie's parental figure (even though there hasn't been any set up to imply that)
Like, he has literally told Charlie he doesn't believe the hotel will work?
It's still funny to me that Lucifer Named a duck depression😂😂😂
Counter theory. Lucifer thinks that Charlie doesn't wanna see him because he is depressed and self sabotaging (a very common theme in the show). And Charlie doesn't think he wants to see her because he always kept to himself in his workshop.
Going off them saying Lucifer and Lilith ARE, not were, deeply in love in a livestream years ago. As well as going off the fact the show keeps setting up negative expectations only to subvert it with something good, I'm of the opinion that Lilith is off trying to find a way to give Lucifer the will to dream again. Which is why I think she sent Alastor to help Charlie, make sure her dream doesn't die like Lucifer's did.
The reason Lilith is pulling Charlie away from Lucifer in the flashback seems obvious by what Charlie is wearing, a night gown. I read it as Charlie not being able to sleep and going to see what her daddy was doing all the time. Lilith taking her away is just her bringing her back to bed.
Honestly i just feel bad for the man he has to fight depression and still rule hell while trying to not bring depression to Charlie bc of her “daddy issues”
And Charlie in the other hand
Has to keep the hotel together keep her friends safe try to be perfect with her father while vaggie is pretty much giving her signs “hang up” and she also wants to bring equality to sinners and angels
I didn't start watching until Episode 5, so my first impression of Lucifer was 'absent dad who is too busy to care about his daughter', which seemed reinforced when I saw 'Hell's Greatest Dad' out of context. It looked like Lucifer was just coming in to make it all about him. But then I watched the full episode and had greater context, and now I wonder if that's how it is, that Lilith planted the idea to Charlie. The fact we didn't see her face in Charlie's flashback has significance, we just need to figure out what that significance is.
I just realized lulu lands mascot is an apple because of Lucifer gave a apple to Lilith/eve
3:54 OMG! The portrait above the marionette! Did Charlie have an Emo phase?!
To reach out. Is to be a burden
Hit harder then i want to admit
I think all you said is true one of the further evidence is that when you look at Lucifer closer on his left hand he’s still wearing his wedding ring. He still loves Lilith.
I wonder why Lilith kept Charlie away from Lucifer plus it's very suspicious that she doesn't have a face during the flashback. Also I hope that Lucifer and Lilith don't have a strained relationship if this is the case.😨
Adam, embodiment of toxic masculinity... Lilith also has the same origin, she might be the same but female. Just a thought tho.
Am i the only one who thinks Lilith and Lucifer split because Lilith wants revenge for being cast out to hell while Lucifer doesn't even wanna try fighting back?
She could be forming her own army with Eve to strike
A great hint towards Lilith being the bad mother is her role in some myths. Lilith is the mother of all demons, and God cursed her for daring to leave Adam. Everyday a certain percentage of her children(demons) will be killed, until she returns to Adam. Lilith, enraged by this went on a killing spree killing newborn children. In reality, this is reffering to a sudden infant death syndrome. Children under 1 year of age sometimes die without an explainable cause. Interestingly, boys are more likely to suffer this fate(60%), because she hates all men thanks to how Adam treated her. In the old days, infants had tags with the names of Archangels, instead of their own for protection. That is, because Archangel Michael and Gabriel, who found out about this went to bargain with Lilith. They made a deal, that the deaths of her children would stop, but she would stop killing human children in return. She promised not to kill any children under something like a month, if they are protected by the sign of these two angels.
So, maybe that is why Lilith could be a bad mother. And if not, it is an interesting part of history how a biblical legend reffered to a very real and weird phenomenon
In Charlie's opening story, she states that, after being condemned to Hell, Lucifer fell into a depression while Lilith was the continuing inspiration for Hell until she disappeared seven years ago. Charlie idolized both of her parents, but much of her admiration for Lucifer was for whom he used to be, while for Lilith, it was for whom she continued to be.
I suspect we'll find out four things in Season 2:
#1: That Lilith often sang to the sinner demons about how you should "rise up" (and I will do a cartwheel if there is an actual song with that exact name).
#2: That Charlie interpreted this to mean "rise up and take control of your life".
#3: That Lilith actually meant it to mean "rise up and rebel".
#4: That she's been continuing to scheme for the seven years she's been missing.
I still think Lilith made a deal with Lute to stop singing and disappear in exchange for Lute ending the exterminations, albeit with Lilith knowing full well that A) the only place someone with a profile as high as her own could possibly disappear to would be Heaven, and B) Adam would only let the exterminations end over his dead body.
For a while, that probably felt like she had Lute under her control just as much as she did Alastor. But because of the way the deal was worded (they probably both pledged to each other to preserve the balance), Adam's death and Charlie's interference now means Lute has leverage over Lilith. Which, thanks to the sunglasses, we don't know if she was shocked or angered by this, but either way, Lilith's feelings about this sudden shift can't have been good.
I’d like to think that both Lilith and Lucifer is in a somewhat long distance relationship with Lilith in hiding to escape from the extermination. The reason why is because it stated by Lute that Lucifer put a pardon of his hellborn subjects alongside Charlie but there’s a catch. Hellborn. Just because Lilith is part of Hell’s royal family she is still a sinner which a loophole that someone like Adam would exploit to exact revenge towards Lilith and Lucifer.
I subscribed to you at the beginning of this vid but when you asked again at the end, it confirmed for me that i made the right choice subscribing 😂
I really enjoy your videos and theories! I love all the information you use to back up your theories, but mostly I like how you can explain your theories without sounding condescending or egotistical! I look forward to watching more from you 🖤🥀🌙✨
My guess is that Lucifers depression turned him into a workaholic, and it turned into an unhealthy way to cope with his depression. In the process, he isolated himself from Lilith and Charlie, which eventually lead to their marriage falling apart. Part of the reason why Charlie's mom Lilith might have kept Charlie away from him may be that she was trying keep her from becoming isolated with him (she was trying to get her out more and may have been worried about her internalizing her father's issues and Lucifer becoming a bad influence on Charlie's own mental health. Instead, she internalized her mother's in that she wants to unite and save her people like her mother wished to, but failed).
i think poor guy got hit with a love charm, and lilith is the antagonist of the series
It can’t be a coincidence that we haven’t seen or heard from eve at all in the slightest. She’s technically the first sin I can’t imagine someone like that not having something to do with Al or Lilith’s current situations. 🧐
I'm actually more of the opinion that lillith does care about her family. The scene that you chose as a way to separate them is more like Charlie is getting ready for bed and Lilith is merely putting her to bed. I think that Lilith would tell Charlie that her Father is a busy angel and he will come to her when ready because Lucifer doesn't want Charlie to know about his depression, even if she sees hints of sadness. Charlie and her dad not getting along could simply be because his depression is doing it's best to separate the two. Lucifer could see his daughter grow up. Teenage years are rough where she could have said stay away from me in a teenage way and Lucifer could take it personally and just... stayed away. Lucifer would only call her if he needed to, but respect her space.
In regards to Lilith and Alastor... I don't actually think that Alastor is on a leash as implied. I think it's more like Lilith and Alastor have made a deal where they are essentially doing each other a massive favor. Alastor takes care of Charlie and Lilith does something that will help Alastor more. Not sure what, but I think that's the case.
Tbh i always took "lulu" as a nickname for Lilith, not Lusifer. Mainly bc in "the owl house" lulu is a nickname hoody uses on Lilith throughout season 2.
I much prefer for lulu world to be named after Lilth, it makes Lilith and lusifer relationship way more wholssom imo, which make it even more sad that it seem to have fallen apart over the years
The opening of the first episode is only half right as Vivian put her own twist on the actual story to create this world. Why i thought it was hilarious that adam was eating ribs at their first meeting. Eve was created from one of Adams ribs.
Lucifer is so much like me it's insane. I'd love to see him and Charlie have more father/daughter moments in future episodes. Really build their bond again since someone seems to be manipulating them into being apart.
Lucifer isn’t evil, he wanted humans to have free will. To learn from mistakes or to make technological advances. He even says “THEY WERE GIFTED FREE WILL AND LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID WITH IT… EVERYTHING’S TERRIBLE!” He calls the sinners the worst and not to expect them to be redeemed, meaning he really thinks that there’s no hope and that this is his punishment. Lilith is the evil one who fed off the fear, anger, sadness and pain in hell. You can tell from the intro she enjoyed it.
In same ways Lucifer and Charlie remind me of Fizz and Blitz from Helluva Boss. Being close but then being seperated, being told by a third party the other doesn't want to seem them, misreading each other intentions for years, and then finally actually talking and listening to each other leading to understanding and rekindling of the old relationship.