This part about the "Delay" on the arm switch is no joke. I had it setup for all my drones and never thought twice about it. Setup a new profile and missed this ONE step. Armed at 3/4 throttle and sent the drone to the moon. After recovering from that and troubleshooting what happened, I realized I forgot the .1s delay. Important information there.
I use a more simple solution: Airmode always off, air mode for a 3 position switch, one position airmode and the rest of the positions of switch angle mode and NO mode. Then I use 2.5 motor idle value and I set the ESC threshold to 1004-1996. So when I turn to NO mode and the throttle is low, the motors don't spin.
I did no pid at min throttle with air mode on a switch. Don't forget to hit that switch before flying! lol Your way seems much safer. I'll have to see if I can do this with my flysky radio. Thank you, sir!
Got half way through and said... “way above my pay grade..”. Maybe later into 2021.. I want to FLY like Mr. Steele WAY before I configure my quads (that I will destroy prior) like me Steele’s ... this is DEEEEEEPPPP!!! Into open tx.. hell, I havnt set my end points yet... Thank you anyway... just because my grey matter isn’t as “bumpy”.. I can still appreciate it.. again, thank you! Have a safe and happy holidays
Ohh man that is nothing new 😄 I am using this for years now (edit: only the pid command at the beginning) without problems, you can litteraly stop the props with your face without any harm 😄👍🏻 But thanks a lot for sharing it to the community, that hopefully saves some fingers 😉 I wish everyone a wonderfull christmas!
Thank you for the videos. I am new to this FPV and drone world but your videos hooked me in deeply to doing this and other advanced settings. From almost having no experience with drones or computer coding. I am able to do this mode also many others, ( get my RSSI value to my OSD via Aux ch. , set my OSD channels with my radio buttons, be able to write logical switches for my needs and safety, able to use one channel for manny modes via ''Multiplex Replace'' and ''Source: MAX'' kinda mixing/editing, some handy CLI coding...) Now I will try to fit all the above settings to Mobula 6 tiny whoop. Good blessings to you and your family. Thank you again.
You can actually just go in the cli and type the command "set pid_at_min_throttle = OFF" and then arrange a switch for arming idle up and air mode. As an extra safety feature you can add a prearm switch.
For this safety feature at the end of the video, I would create a logical switch witch prevents arming, as long as the Idle-up switch is set, and then use this logical switch in the mixer-tab for the arming channel.
Very interesting and informative video. I fly kiss, love it. Most of my builds are BF, no desire to implement this but I did learn a lot and appreciate it. Thanks, and happy flying. 💖🤓
I never thought idle up was a kiss thing, I always thought you can use it as easy on betaflight too. Anyways, kiss "airmode" is kind of better on my opinion, even though I have idle up on one of my quads. Only advantage is you can hold your quad armed in your hand, but while flying I don't feel any difference.
Joshua. I just did this the exact same way last week after pulling my hair out for weeks. Just be CAREFUL when you are in the pid inactive mode and quickly twist the quad in yaw by hand the motors will spin up for a second.
i just use special functions and logical switches to override the throttle channel. i also have a logical switch setup so that if the throttle isnt at 0 while armed and the pid switch is inactive, it wont allow me to enable pid. which imo is a must have for safety
Lol well I tried the way I heard other people trying. With adding air mode on a switch with the pid off at min throttle. but it doesn't work, motors still shut off when sticks all bottomed out. Even in flight. So guess I'm gonna go thru the "all" the steps you did. 🤷♂️🤦♂️Well I tried. But just like Life, fpv doesn't like shortcuts.
You could add SC as your airmode switch in the modes tab, especially since SC is a three-way. You could use it for both idle up and selecting airmode on or off
So ^ would be idle up, - would be air mode off, and down would be air mode on? I've been using SC for air mode on/off (for bonking and sliding) and angle mode for the third position.
@@DelaneyKassab exactly! ^ would be idle, - would be idle up and airmode off, and the third would be idle up and airmode on. That way you don’t have to give up airmode, and still have the functionality described in the video. I use another 3 way for Acro, angle and turtle mode
@@JekleFPV So I've been messing with this the last couple hours and I don't like the fact that I can't arm straight into air mode on. You have to first flip the switch to idle position before arming (because the min throttle has been raised for normal flight modes). This means that if you need to re-arm mid air for any reason you'll have to: 1. switch to idle mode 2. hold pre-arm 3. flip arm switch 4. let go of pre-arm 5. switch from idle mode to air mode After that you'll have hit the ground. In fact, I don't even run a pre-arm for this reason. Being able to quickly re-arm has saved me lots of times before.
@@DelaneyKassab I wouldn’t run a pre-arm switch with a idle up config. Apart from that, I dont know what to tell you, you need permanent airmode disabled for this. it’s your choice whether or not to use idle up. If you do, try to avoid having to re-arm mid-air.
There is a scenario you didn’t account for. If you arm, bump the throttle on accident, then turn on idle up, the quad will go straight to that throttle amount and shoot up to the moon.
You could solve this using logic switches (The sticky function would be useful for this) but you're starting to get into the realms of diminishing returns.
@@JoshuaBardwell that's not what I meant , I ment because it has to be off for the "idle up" to work why not make it on an aux mode so when you're flying normally it's turned on .
I set this on my radio TX16s and my Nazgul evoque. I did set everything like you set here in the video. Everything seems to work fine except: 1 stage arming fine everything seems to work till I idle up and the pids are active then I have the feeling like the motors spin slowly up more than they should. Quad is lifting a bit already.
Nice Video Joshua......!!! i can say you the King of OPEN TX...LOL... but for idle up better use Kiss board and you can feel how the quad fly too...:-)
I was going to suggest an alternative to the fixed 0% throttle where you used Weight = 0% & Offset = -100% as you can change the source of an input line to something other than the channel it's going to control, but for some reason while there is a "MAX" source there doesn't seem to be a "MIN" source. Still, it might be better to set it to a source on MAX and use the same weight and offset to lower it down to MIN rather than relying on Weight 0% which may have a small rounding bug in future versions of OpenTX seems as this is a safety system. Another thing which you could probably do is to use the Betaflight pre-arm functionality to implement the interlock between your arm and idle up switch, that's a little more explicit in its intention and it's probably better to have the safety portions within the flight controller rather than your radio. It's also worth mentioning that model match is also a good idea to ensure that you don't accidentally use a second controller which doesn't have the right profile. I did look to see if there was a way to use the "adjustments" to change the motor output limit but sadly there doesn't seem to be a way to do this. The theory being that you could just limit the motor outputs to a very low cap in order to make it safe. In iNav you could probably use the "Programming" functionality to implement this logic fully within the flight controller.
@@JoshuaBardwell Sorry yes you're right you don't need to use offset with MAX, just weight. I got confused when I tried it as my switch was enabling another input and that messed up my graph. It should probably be called "FIX" or something like that.
if you put Airmod off the you can put it back on a switch for air mode on . if you need .. and you can make the it workrs to the idel up ... is no more sticki .
hi. i made all this operation and still at min throttle have an oscillation like it pidloop is off. i raise "Motor Idle Throttle Value [percent]" to 7.5 and activete dynamic idle with 12.. halp!
One more thing. When I turn on Idle swith - the motors rotation starts to increase spontaneously. I tried to do it with propellers - same thing happens. If do not turn off idle switch - the quad is ready to take off. Maybe you can explain - how to solve this. Thanks
ATTENTION/WARNING Could it be that this setting has some effect on gps rescue? Because I set the gps rescue when I use a switch for gps rescue (tx is connected to rx) it returns. BUT when I turn off my tx it is a whole different scenario! The drone “deadflips” freaks out flips all directions and hits the ground really bad!
To bad I already learn my own way a long time ago. Set_pid_at_min_throttle = off then set a switch to add 5% throttle up to activate pid and if you want you can lower your idle to 4.5 - 6 or which ever you prefer
Could you please give me a setup of all your switches on your TX16s? I would love to match your switch arrangement and learn of any new possible settings or layout you may have?
Upper left shoulder 2position is arm/disarm Upper left face short 3pos is GPS rescue for quads that have it Upper right momentary is beeper and prearm for quads that have it Upper right face short 3pos is up = nothing, middle = angle, down = turtle mode Upper right face long 3pos is throttle limit activate /deactivate with the left potentiometer knob controlling the % of throttle reduction from 0% to 50% I don't use all of these on every quad, for example, not all quads have GPS or prearm, and I only actually use throttle limit with micros most of the time. But I keep the setup consistent so muscle memory is there.
Joshua BE CAREFUL. I just did this the exact same way last week after pulling my hair out for weeks getting it to work. Just be CAREFUL when you are in the pid inactive mode and quickly twist the quad in yaw by hand the motors will spin up for a second
@@JoshuaBardwell for bonking and sliding I have airmode on a switch to keep it from freaking out. However, Airmode off can still be a bit bouncy. Would idle up on a 3 position switch like this be a better method?
Hmm i did it like 3 years ago and it was diferent, but i don't really remember how i did it and what tutorials i used. I can't see it because i switched to edge tx and i lost my settings.
so when i arm my quad and put the throttle lets say at 50% and hit the idle up i´m gonna launch my kwad is there a way to say: "hey if the throttle is not at 0 i wont activate idle up" ?
Just wondering what would happen if you arm with idle up off and stick at 0 throttle (i.e. arm the quad and move into the throttle pegged at 0 state). Raise the throttle stick (no effect on the quad because it's curve is zeroed). Then idle up (throttle stick active)? Seems like the throttle would "snap" to wherever the stick is, which could lead to a very abrupt take off. I suspect this is another one of those "this is a very bad idea" edge cases to be aware of. I could see this happening if you didn't have this set up on all your quads. Arm the quad, motors start spinning, "why can't I take off?", "oh, that's right, idle up", and boom!
@@JoshuaBardwell I'm not an OpenTX user, but could you use a mix to ease the throttle on after idle up over the course of several seconds? Ultimately you still add throttle but maybe slow enough to give the pilot time to react maybe? What's the use case for snapping idle up off while flying? For super fast Mr Steele style flips and rolls without a PID controller? Does this setup kind of prevent that anyway because you're doing to force 0 throttle when idle up is off? I fly Spektrum and have almost no interest in putting a setup like this on my quads, but finding edge cases is my day job (programmer), and this one kind of stood out to me. Thanks as always for your informative videos!
steele just uses it to check on his props rotation in his hand withotu risking hurting himself... I don't see why that's so useful though. If it was 1 switch I could flip in betaflight maybe i'd do it too
I'm a pretty dumb guy but what it's the advantage or use for this? Seems like a lot of steps for something that will rarely, if ever, get used. Is this different than putting airmode on a switch?
In KISS this is just "how it works". Some people want to emulate that. They argue that the ability to spin props without activating the PID loop lets you check motor direction easily and check after a crash whether a prop is blocked. Some people also use it for more risky activities like arming while holding the quad. For the answer about air mode please see several other times in the comments where I answered it. Short answer: no it's not the same.
Hello all, thanks Joshua for this in-depth information. How does all of this reacts to turtle mode? does turtle mode just overrides this arming rules created? Do i need to arm, idle up and turtle then? thanks for help I need turtle mode, got stuck all the time somewhere ;)
What would happen if you 'just flew with the PID loop off at zero throttle'? Does the loop resume quickly enough for this to be reasonable? I'm thinking that would get rid of the low-throttle pull, but there has to be a downside ... what am I not understanding? Thinking about it ... it would have to be latency from the motors spinning up. I'm guessing that the effect is too great to account for it on the sticks - is that right?
Because if you drop your throttle to zero to perform a trick, the pid loop will not correct. If I remember correctly, the other controls still react to stick input... Been a while since I worked on this. I just gave up and flew my kiss machines.
I might have missed the point but could you not just make a second pid profile with all the pids set to 0 and have it on an aux switch to change between profiles and run air mode on switch.
HELP im trying to solder my esc and the solder is refusing to stick to the pads. any help? ive tried making sure its hot enough. im using solder with flux core what am i doing wrong?
I just had to press menu hahaha, I was trying every button expect this. But now I don't know why my motor don't spin when I arm, but they do when I throttle up (with iddle up switch on). What's the solution for this, I want it to spin! 😆
I am removing this feature on my KissV2 for my own reasons. I found it to be unpredicatable and it caused several bad accidents which ended up breaking the quad. I want my props to stop and I believe the old idle up switch is the best way to go about using this feature. Permanently enabling this feature can be very dangerous depending on the controller and TX. In Kiss it isnt safe.. sorry guys.. and the loop can be active in kiss after a factory flash, depending on TX settings.. if you pick the quad up it goes crazy. I am now missing a motor due to that loop :/
There is a much simpler way to do it. Instead of doing all this just add a special function that overrides the throttle to 0% when the switch is in the desired position. Then any other switch position will allow the throttle to work normally.
@@RemcosFPV Thats what airmode on a switch does. Starts the propellers and activates the pidloop. Then if you disable airmode on the switch, then the propellers stops spinning and the pidloop isnt active. Just like in the video. Don't see the difference.
No definitely not. The quad still has zero throttle authority even with air mode disabled. And the idle up method prevents you from raising the throttle when idle up is off.
@@JoshuaBardwell Strange, cause I have airmode on a switch, and when I disable it, my quad just tumbles out of the sky without authority. Your video show excacly how my quad behaves with airmode on a switch instead of idleup.
If you did that, then you wouldn't be able to use the Betaflight OSD. Unless you put throttle cut on a separate switch. Personally if I was going to do this, I probably would just forget about throttle cut and take responsibility for not raising the throttle when idle up was active. I would never hand launch anyway but there can be reasons why you want to use idle up that don't relate to arming while holding the quad.
@@JoshuaBardwell correct but by having thro cut set up in a way that when deactivated the min thro is set to about 6 percent thro. in other words i use thro cut as my idle up. I get what you are saying tho.
@@JoshuaBardwell I do try to use caution in everything I do when it comes to exposed blender blades. I know first hand and second hand what is at stake when arming 4 ninja stars. cheers.
I'm a python dev and have little experience with C/C++ but this seems like quite easy to code in Betaflight just as a mode you can set to an AUX channel. Or am I missing something here? If I got the time and C isn't freaking me out I might try to create a pull request for this.
I don't know if Iv learned some yet other than my brain hurts now. Iv watched this twice now and it seems way too complicated when betaflight could just add the as an option. Seems logical. We need all message whoever does that. And make this happen.
It is an open source project so the way to make it happen is to write the code and contribute it. Open source devs work for free and for the love of the project. So they really don't usually respond well when somebody demands they implement a feature in this way.
@@JoshuaBardwell lol right .I bet, I forgot about it being open source. But still really wish they would add it as a modes switch or something. I'll get it done im sure, I always figure it out. I just happened to be in the middle of figuring air mode out when I saw you vid. I just switched from kiss to BF. Trying to learn all the new stuff. 🤯✌️
If you have crashed and want to check your props, you can do that. (arm the quad, props will turn and you can take the quad and inspect without the quad fighting the movement)
@@JoshuaBardwell I haven't even put air mode on a switch, but a friend put it on a 3 inch, and stuck his finder in the spinning prop, and it stopped. I thought disabling air mode disabled the pid loop, guess I learned something today. Now I need to figure out the rest of what I thought I already knew.
When air mode is disabled the PID loop is weak at zero throttle. But there are 2 risks. One is the PID loop still exists so its possible to get a reaction to external forces. And 2 is you can raise the throttle and hurt yourself. This method prevents those situations.
I was wearing my JB t shirt and someone recognized it on the street in philly.. Mr. Famous over here :)
Omg finally. You don’t know how long i‘ve Been searching the internet for this
why is this so important?
@@miquelmarti6537 It's just a nice and tidy way to arm your quad safely
Ho .......... Ho ......... Ho ........... Merry ............. Christmas 🎄 ............. !
This part about the "Delay" on the arm switch is no joke. I had it setup for all my drones and never thought twice about it. Setup a new profile and missed this ONE step. Armed at 3/4 throttle and sent the drone to the moon. After recovering from that and troubleshooting what happened, I realized I forgot the .1s delay. Important information there.
my delay setting didn't work. Have no idea why. Very strange
even try 3 sec delay))
Just what I was looking up! Thanks for reading my mind today!
The issue at the end, set your prearm to be on the sc, idle up off position. You have to set it to that position to even get the motors spinning then
I use a more simple solution: Airmode always off, air mode for a 3 position switch, one position airmode and the rest of the positions of switch angle mode and NO mode. Then I use 2.5 motor idle value and I set the ESC threshold to 1004-1996. So when I turn to NO mode and the throttle is low, the motors don't spin.
I do something very similar, left a comment here as well. Yup, it works great :)
Use two stage arming and then you could put airmode on that same switch :)
I did no pid at min throttle with air mode on a switch. Don't forget to hit that switch before flying! lol Your way seems much safer. I'll have to see if I can do this with my flysky radio. Thank you, sir!
Got half way through and said... “way above my pay grade..”. Maybe later into 2021.. I want to FLY like Mr. Steele WAY before I configure my quads (that I will destroy prior) like me Steele’s ...
this is DEEEEEEPPPP!!! Into open tx.. hell, I havnt set my end points yet...
Thank you anyway... just because my grey matter isn’t as “bumpy”.. I can still appreciate it.. again, thank you!
Have a safe and happy holidays
Lmao
Ohh man that is nothing new 😄 I am using this for years now (edit: only the pid command at the beginning) without problems, you can litteraly stop the props with your face without any harm 😄👍🏻 But thanks a lot for sharing it to the community, that hopefully saves some fingers 😉 I wish everyone a wonderfull christmas!
Ooh classic topic, hehe...^^
;-)
merry Christmas, Joshua B.
Great video, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😊
Happy holidays! And stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thank you for the videos. I am new to this FPV and drone world but your videos hooked me in deeply to doing this and other advanced settings. From almost having no experience with drones or computer coding. I am able to do this mode also many others, ( get my RSSI value to my OSD via Aux ch. , set my OSD channels with my radio buttons, be able to write logical switches for my needs and safety, able to use one channel for manny modes via ''Multiplex Replace'' and ''Source: MAX'' kinda mixing/editing, some handy CLI coding...) Now I will try to fit all the above settings to Mobula 6 tiny whoop. Good blessings to you and your family. Thank you again.
You can actually just go in the cli and type the command "set pid_at_min_throttle = OFF" and then arrange a switch for arming idle up and air mode. As an extra safety feature you can add a prearm switch.
For this safety feature at the end of the video, I would create a logical switch witch prevents arming, as long as the Idle-up switch is set, and then use this logical switch in the mixer-tab for the arming channel.
Very interesting and informative video. I fly kiss, love it. Most of my builds are BF, no desire to implement this but I did learn a lot and appreciate it. Thanks, and happy flying. 💖🤓
I would consider just building with kiss fc.
Ok I have to admit I have very little experience with KISS. Is this actually how it works or did I get some detail wrong?
The mixer part in the last part is how steel does it... But u got it and i like the work around u did to use the betaflight osd
I never thought idle up was a kiss thing, I always thought you can use it as easy on betaflight too. Anyways, kiss "airmode" is kind of better on my opinion, even though I have idle up on one of my quads. Only advantage is you can hold your quad armed in your hand, but while flying I don't feel any difference.
Joshua. I just did this the exact same way last week after pulling my hair out for weeks. Just be CAREFUL when you are in the pid inactive mode and quickly twist the quad in yaw by hand the motors will spin up for a second.
ruclips.net/video/oMQidtp0F0k/видео.html
Some interesting thing KISS-specialists say is that idle-up would influence TPA. Could be an interesting topic?
Great video, as usual. Thanks for all you do for our hobby. Merry Christmas to you and yours, be blessed and have fun!!
i just use special functions and logical switches to override the throttle channel.
i also have a logical switch setup so that if the throttle isnt at 0 while armed and the pid switch is inactive, it wont allow me to enable pid. which imo is a must have for safety
Lol well I tried the way I heard other people trying. With adding air mode on a switch with the pid off at min throttle. but it doesn't work, motors still shut off when sticks all bottomed out. Even in flight. So guess I'm gonna go thru the "all" the steps you did. 🤷♂️🤦♂️Well I tried. But just like Life, fpv doesn't like shortcuts.
Omg betaglight please just include this! Can’t be that hard!
1:54 I want this in the summer when i Heating up my charcoal grill
You could add SC as your airmode switch in the modes tab, especially since SC is a three-way. You could use it for both idle up and selecting airmode on or off
Yep that is pretty clever to be honest.
So ^ would be idle up, - would be air mode off, and down would be air mode on?
I've been using SC for air mode on/off (for bonking and sliding) and angle mode for the third position.
@@DelaneyKassab exactly! ^ would be idle, - would be idle up and airmode off, and the third would be idle up and airmode on.
That way you don’t have to give up airmode, and still have the functionality described in the video.
I use another 3 way for Acro, angle and turtle mode
@@JekleFPV So I've been messing with this the last couple hours and I don't like the fact that I can't arm straight into air mode on. You have to first flip the switch to idle position before arming (because the min throttle has been raised for normal flight modes). This means that if you need to re-arm mid air for any reason you'll have to:
1. switch to idle mode
2. hold pre-arm
3. flip arm switch
4. let go of pre-arm
5. switch from idle mode to air mode
After that you'll have hit the ground. In fact, I don't even run a pre-arm for this reason. Being able to quickly re-arm has saved me lots of times before.
@@DelaneyKassab I wouldn’t run a pre-arm switch with a idle up config.
Apart from that, I dont know what to tell you, you need permanent airmode disabled for this. it’s your choice whether or not to use idle up. If you do, try to avoid having to re-arm mid-air.
I have my kiss arm just on one switch, i hate the dual switch flip. Definitely doing this on ny BF quads
There is a scenario you didn’t account for. If you arm, bump the throttle on accident, then turn on idle up, the quad will go straight to that throttle amount and shoot up to the moon.
I was thinking the same
You could solve this using logic switches (The sticky function would be useful for this) but you're starting to get into the realms of diminishing returns.
KISS idle-up does the same thing. The title of the video is, "replicating KISS Idle-up"
Why not just make the air mode on an aux and just make it turn on/off on the idle up switch
Air mode is different from idle up. Air mode off does not disable the PID loop. Air mode also allows you to raise the throttle and spin up the motors.
@@JoshuaBardwell that's not what I meant , I ment because it has to be off for the "idle up" to work why not make it on an aux mode so when you're flying normally it's turned on .
I set this on my radio TX16s and my Nazgul evoque. I did set everything like you set here in the video. Everything seems to work fine except: 1 stage arming fine everything seems to work till I idle up and the pids are active then I have the feeling like the motors spin slowly up more than they should. Quad is lifting a bit already.
Nice, I use idle up on KISS so this is good to know for my other FCs
I have waited a long time for this video👍
This is great! I’m way too buzzed rn to remember all this. Maybe rewatch later a few times 🤣
Cool with the purple
30 seconds in, already liked it 😅 merry christmas guys!
Good job JB. Although I use DJI controller, I like to watching your creative video's.
The disclaimer is a great touch!
Merry chistmas JB!
You had it right when you said just buy KISS
Nice Video Joshua......!!! i can say you the King of OPEN TX...LOL...
but for idle up better use Kiss board and you can feel how the quad fly too...:-)
Awesome. Thanks for this feature. Can you explain, how to keep air mode and how to setup this ?
Logical functions go brrr
I was going to suggest an alternative to the fixed 0% throttle where you used Weight = 0% & Offset = -100% as you can change the source of an input line to something other than the channel it's going to control, but for some reason while there is a "MAX" source there doesn't seem to be a "MIN" source. Still, it might be better to set it to a source on MAX and use the same weight and offset to lower it down to MIN rather than relying on Weight 0% which may have a small rounding bug in future versions of OpenTX seems as this is a safety system.
Another thing which you could probably do is to use the Betaflight pre-arm functionality to implement the interlock between your arm and idle up switch, that's a little more explicit in its intention and it's probably better to have the safety portions within the flight controller rather than your radio. It's also worth mentioning that model match is also a good idea to ensure that you don't accidentally use a second controller which doesn't have the right profile.
I did look to see if there was a way to use the "adjustments" to change the motor output limit but sadly there doesn't seem to be a way to do this. The theory being that you could just limit the motor outputs to a very low cap in order to make it safe.
In iNav you could probably use the "Programming" functionality to implement this logic fully within the flight controller.
"MAX" just means a constant value of your choosing.
@@JoshuaBardwell Sorry yes you're right you don't need to use offset with MAX, just weight. I got confused when I tried it as my switch was enabling another input and that messed up my graph. It should probably be called "FIX" or something like that.
Thank you
I think that is time to retire my JumperT8SG plus that runs Deviation tx and get myself a Open TX trensmiter :D
WOW, great job. Merry Christmas to you and your family
if you put Airmod off the you can put it back on a switch for air mode on . if you need .. and you can make the it workrs to the idel up ... is no more sticki .
hi. i made all this operation and still at min throttle have an oscillation like it pidloop is off. i raise "Motor Idle Throttle Value [percent]" to 7.5 and activete dynamic idle with 12.. halp!
What's the difference between this and putting airmode on a switch and setting pid loop off at zero? Just the two stage arming?
Please check other questions in this comments section where I answered this (sorry just don't feel like typing it out again).
@@JoshuaBardwell Ok thanks! I hadn't seen that so I'll look through the comments again.
just in time! might learn something now
@Joshua Bardwell
I Love to see you use the TX16S
One more thing. When I turn on Idle swith - the motors rotation starts to increase spontaneously. I tried to do it with propellers - same thing happens. If do not turn off idle switch - the quad is ready to take off.
Maybe you can explain - how to solve this. Thanks
how would this effect the turtle mode switch? Man.. too many switches to remember now.. lol..
No effect. Turtle mode ignores throttle. Bit of throttle was raised turtle mode would not activate because turtle mode requires you to arm.
this seems way to complicated for me now im happy with arming the way it is now haha thanks for sharing merry christmas :)
Just run kiss!!!! Ftw
Omg that's so convoluted.
lol, i have a headache now
ATTENTION/WARNING Could it be that this setting has some effect on gps rescue? Because I set the gps rescue when I use a switch for gps rescue (tx is connected to rx) it returns. BUT when I turn off my tx it is a whole different scenario! The drone “deadflips” freaks out flips all directions and hits the ground really bad!
To bad I already learn my own way a long time ago. Set_pid_at_min_throttle = off then set a switch to add 5% throttle up to activate pid and if you want you can lower your idle to 4.5 - 6 or which ever you prefer
Could you please give me a setup of all your switches on your TX16s? I would love to match your switch arrangement and learn of any new possible settings or layout you may have?
Upper left shoulder 2position is arm/disarm
Upper left face short 3pos is GPS rescue for quads that have it
Upper right momentary is beeper and prearm for quads that have it
Upper right face short 3pos is up = nothing, middle = angle, down = turtle mode
Upper right face long 3pos is throttle limit activate /deactivate with the left potentiometer knob controlling the % of throttle reduction from 0% to 50%
I don't use all of these on every quad, for example, not all quads have GPS or prearm, and I only actually use throttle limit with micros most of the time. But I keep the setup consistent so muscle memory is there.
@@JoshuaBardwell thank you!! Now to figure out how to set all this up. Lol.
Joshua BE CAREFUL. I just did this the exact same way last week after pulling my hair out for weeks getting it to work. Just be CAREFUL when you are in the pid inactive mode and quickly twist the quad in yaw by hand the motors will spin up for a second
I don't think that happens using my method.
@@JoshuaBardwell Hope so, scared the crap out of me ;)
What if i put it on one 3-position switch:
1. disarm
2. Motors Spin- no pid Loop
3. fully armed
Should be safe- right?
Yep I think that would be a cool setup. And it would prevent the throttle and arming mode from conflicting.
@@JoshuaBardwell for bonking and sliding I have airmode on a switch to keep it from freaking out. However, Airmode off can still be a bit bouncy.
Would idle up on a 3 position switch like this be a better method?
Hmm i did it like 3 years ago and it was diferent, but i don't really remember how i did it and what tutorials i used. I can't see it because i switched to edge tx and i lost my settings.
so when i arm my quad and put the throttle lets say at 50% and hit the idle up i´m gonna launch my kwad is there a way to say: "hey if the throttle is not at 0 i wont activate idle up" ?
Yeah probably not gonna do that but it was intertaining
I thought you were gonna say the reason the switch is important, is because at zero throttle in a maneuver, the pid loop would be off....
Yup that too.
Just wondering what would happen if you arm with idle up off and stick at 0 throttle (i.e. arm the quad and move into the throttle pegged at 0 state). Raise the throttle stick (no effect on the quad because it's curve is zeroed). Then idle up (throttle stick active)? Seems like the throttle would "snap" to wherever the stick is, which could lead to a very abrupt take off. I suspect this is another one of those "this is a very bad idea" edge cases to be aware of. I could see this happening if you didn't have this set up on all your quads. Arm the quad, motors start spinning, "why can't I take off?", "oh, that's right, idle up", and boom!
I agree that is what would happen. Not sure the best way to handle that though since you also want to be able to snap idle up off and on while flying.
@@JoshuaBardwell I'm not an OpenTX user, but could you use a mix to ease the throttle on after idle up over the course of several seconds? Ultimately you still add throttle but maybe slow enough to give the pilot time to react maybe? What's the use case for snapping idle up off while flying? For super fast Mr Steele style flips and rolls without a PID controller? Does this setup kind of prevent that anyway because you're doing to force 0 throttle when idle up is off? I fly Spektrum and have almost no interest in putting a setup like this on my quads, but finding edge cases is my day job (programmer), and this one kind of stood out to me. Thanks as always for your informative videos!
I wanted this!!!
I'm try to figure out why you would want this? Or what the function is. It just seems like more points of failure to me.
steele just uses it to check on his props rotation in his hand withotu risking hurting himself... I don't see why that's so useful though. If it was 1 switch I could flip in betaflight maybe i'd do it too
I'm a pretty dumb guy but what it's the advantage or use for this? Seems like a lot of steps for something that will rarely, if ever, get used. Is this different than putting airmode on a switch?
In KISS this is just "how it works". Some people want to emulate that. They argue that the ability to spin props without activating the PID loop lets you check motor direction easily and check after a crash whether a prop is blocked. Some people also use it for more risky activities like arming while holding the quad.
For the answer about air mode please see several other times in the comments where I answered it. Short answer: no it's not the same.
Watching at 4am GMT+8.
Hello all, thanks Joshua for this in-depth information. How does all of this reacts to turtle mode? does turtle mode just overrides this arming rules created? Do i need to arm, idle up and turtle then? thanks for help
I need turtle mode, got stuck all the time somewhere ;)
What would happen if you 'just flew with the PID loop off at zero throttle'? Does the loop resume quickly enough for this to be reasonable? I'm thinking that would get rid of the low-throttle pull, but there has to be a downside ... what am I not understanding? Thinking about it ... it would have to be latency from the motors spinning up. I'm guessing that the effect is too great to account for it on the sticks - is that right?
Because if you drop your throttle to zero to perform a trick, the pid loop will not correct. If I remember correctly, the other controls still react to stick input... Been a while since I worked on this. I just gave up and flew my kiss machines.
i'm honestly surprised that there isn't a simple string of code you can set to do this.
Kan i still use this with prearm?
This is why I fly kiss!!
the 's' in 'sc' stands for switch
I might have missed the point but could you not just make a second pid profile with all the pids set to 0 and have it on an aux switch to change between profiles and run air mode on switch.
You cannot change PID profiles except via OSD or stick command.
Great stuff thank u .
HELP im trying to solder my esc and the solder is refusing to stick to the pads. any help? ive tried making sure its hot enough. im using solder with flux core what am i doing wrong?
What if you add prearm mode when the sc switch is in the up position? That might work, right?
Is this possible with Tango 2pro? Can someone help me? where's that model menu... inputs? I can't find the inputs page. please help me :)
I just had to press menu hahaha, I was trying every button expect this. But now I don't know why my motor don't spin when I arm, but they do when I throttle up (with iddle up switch on). What's the solution for this, I want it to spin! 😆
One Question Lgened ? What googles are better for beginners, FatShark V5 or the V6’s ? Thanks
oh, I thought this would be about the slow spin-up of props ;)
Question?....I buy bnf ready drones from iflight example....is it really nessary to flash the fc every time for every drone???
No you can just use the firmware they ship.
I am removing this feature on my KissV2 for my own reasons. I found it to be unpredicatable and it caused several bad accidents which ended up breaking the quad. I want my props to stop and I believe the old idle up switch is the best way to go about using this feature. Permanently enabling this feature can be very dangerous depending on the controller and TX. In Kiss it isnt safe.. sorry guys.. and the loop can be active in kiss after a factory flash, depending on TX settings.. if you pick the quad up it goes crazy. I am now missing a motor due to that loop :/
There is a much simpler way to do it. Instead of doing all this just add a special function that overrides the throttle to 0% when the switch is in the desired position. Then any other switch position will allow the throttle to work normally.
All this does is kill switch the throttle. You want a distinction between armed and idle-up.
@@JoshuaBardwell yes i forgot to add in that u need to set the channel output so that it’s up but it essentially does the same thing with less steps
When we idle up and not arm. But when we move the roll, pitch and yaw will it move?
No. You have to arm before it can move.
All this trouble for putting airmode on a switch?
Hahahahaha if you think airmode is the same
@@RemcosFPV Well. Enlighten me please, instead of acting immature. I don't see the difference from airmode on a switch to what he did in the video.
@@FamilienHansen uh did you even watch it all ? Idle up switch ups idle 5% which keeps your pids fully locked in
@@RemcosFPV Thats what airmode on a switch does. Starts the propellers and activates the pidloop. Then if you disable airmode on the switch, then the propellers stops spinning and the pidloop isnt active. Just like in the video. Don't see the difference.
Lol good luck no it doesnt
What about arming in turtle mode?
Shouldn't matter. The throttle isn't used in turtle mode.
Isn't this just like having airmode on a switch???
No definitely not. The quad still has zero throttle authority even with air mode disabled. And the idle up method prevents you from raising the throttle when idle up is off.
@@JoshuaBardwell Strange, cause I have airmode on a switch, and when I disable it, my quad just tumbles out of the sky without authority. Your video show excacly how my quad behaves with airmode on a switch instead of idleup.
It seems almost crazy that betaflight has not just made this a setting.
could I just use throttle cut on the radio in conjunction with the cli command?
If you did that, then you wouldn't be able to use the Betaflight OSD. Unless you put throttle cut on a separate switch. Personally if I was going to do this, I probably would just forget about throttle cut and take responsibility for not raising the throttle when idle up was active. I would never hand launch anyway but there can be reasons why you want to use idle up that don't relate to arming while holding the quad.
@@JoshuaBardwell correct but by having thro cut set up in a way that when deactivated the min thro is set to about 6 percent thro. in other words i use thro cut as my idle up. I get what you are saying tho.
@@JoshuaBardwell I do try to use caution in everything I do when it comes to exposed blender blades. I know first hand and second hand what is at stake when arming 4 ninja stars. cheers.
@@JoshuaBardwell Sorry last comment. I do use two switch arming, its just something Ive always done.
Or we could patch betaflight instead ?
Why is arm+idle safer than just arming?
Because the PID loop is inactive the motors won't react to any outside forces when you arm.
Joshua, I heard you are sending out replacement ribbon cables for the Jumper T16, how to contact with shipping info?
I'm not sending them out. Contact Grayson Hobby or Pyro Drone.
I'm a python dev and have little experience with C/C++ but this seems like quite easy to code in Betaflight just as a mode you can set to an AUX channel. Or am I missing something here? If I got the time and C isn't freaking me out I might try to create a pull request for this.
More power to you! I suspect you will find it's more complicated than it seems at first (like so many programming challenges).
Should be called the Final Glide AUS IDLE UP
I don't know if Iv learned some yet other than my brain hurts now. Iv watched this twice now and it seems way too complicated when betaflight could just add the as an option. Seems logical. We need all message whoever does that. And make this happen.
It is an open source project so the way to make it happen is to write the code and contribute it. Open source devs work for free and for the love of the project. So they really don't usually respond well when somebody demands they implement a feature in this way.
@@JoshuaBardwell lol right .I bet, I forgot about it being open source. But still really wish they would add it as a modes switch or something. I'll get it done im sure, I always figure it out. I just happened to be in the middle of figuring air mode out when I saw you vid. I just switched from kiss to BF. Trying to learn all the new stuff. 🤯✌️
I don't know anything about kiss, so I don't really understand this. What is the advantage of kiss idle up over having air mode on a switch?
Kiss method completely disables the PID loop so the motors do not spin up at all. You can spin the motors at idle with low risk of injury or flip out.
If you have crashed and want to check your props, you can do that. (arm the quad, props will turn and you can take the quad and inspect without the quad fighting the movement)
@@JoshuaBardwell I haven't even put air mode on a switch, but a friend put it on a 3 inch, and stuck his finder in the spinning prop, and it stopped. I thought disabling air mode disabled the pid loop, guess I learned something today. Now I need to figure out the rest of what I thought I already knew.
When air mode is disabled the PID loop is weak at zero throttle. But there are 2 risks. One is the PID loop still exists so its possible to get a reaction to external forces. And 2 is you can raise the throttle and hurt yourself. This method prevents those situations.
@@JoshuaBardwell Thanks, that clears it up.
Joshua lawyers up.....
review that kiss aio homeboy